Transcript of How To Turn Self-Doubt Into Your Superpower - The Mindset of Champions

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Enter right now at lewish howes.com/win. Welcome to this special master class. We've brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's gonna be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

The thing I love the most about you is that you really care about other human beings. Yeah. Your heart is so big, even though you've been known for this focused mentality that is just almost psycho in some ways, Yeah. But you care deeply about human beings and I think that's why so many people love you as well so I want to acknowledge you for your kindness and your generosity towards humanity. My first question for you is I'm curious about who was your greatest teacher growing up?

Because you had an, an interesting childhood being in Italy for a while, coming back to Philadelphia I think it was. Yeah. Who was the greatest teacher for you in those early days?

That's funny, I I had a lot of them, my parents were were great, You know, growing up, you know, they instilled in me the importance of imagination, of curiosity. And understanding that, okay, if you wanna accomplish something, I'm not just gonna sit here and say, yes. You can do whatever you want. Yes, you can, but you have to also put in the work to get there. Right?

So they taught me that at a really early age, man. And, when you grow up as a kid thinking that the world is your oyster, all things are possible if you put in the work to do it. You know, you grow up having that fundamental belief.

Yeah. Who was more influential for you, your father or mother?

Both were influential at different points. Yeah. Right? My, my mom was there on a daily basis. My father, was really influential at a really critical time where I, you know, I had a summer where I played basketball when I was, like, 10 or 11 years old, and a very prominent summer league in Philadelphia called the Sunny Hill League.

Where my father played, my uncle played, and they were, like, all time greats and stuff. And Wilt Chamberlain played in the league, you know, early pro Monroe played in the league. And here I come playing, and I don't score 1 point the entire summer. Really? Not 1.

How old were you?

11. 10, 11. You're playing against other 10, 11 year olds? Uh-huh. You didn't score once.

Not 1. Were you in the game? I was in the game. How'd you not score?

Because I was terrible. Really? Yeah. That happened. 11 years old.

You were that terrible. I mean, I you know, and I had these big knee pads on because I

was No.

Growing really fast. I have socks all the way up here, and I have, like, the pot top sleeves. Yeah. Like, skinny as and I scored not a free throw, not a nothing. Not a lucky shot, not a breakaway layup, 0 points.

And I remember crying about it

and being upset about it.

My father just gave me a hug and said, listen. Whether you score 0 or score 60, I'm gonna love you no matter what. Wow. Now that is the most important thing that you can say to a child. Because from there, I was like, okay.

It gives me all the confidence in the world to fail. I have the security there. But with that, I'm scoring 60. Let's go. Right.

Right. Right. And from there, I just went to work. I just, I stayed with it. I kept practicing, kept practicing, kept practicing.

Is that when you think the mentality of hard work started to come in for you at that age when you failed so miserably, I guess that summer?

I think that's when the idea of understanding a long term view became important because I wasn't gonna catch these kids in a week, I wasn't gonna catch them in a year, Right? So that's when I sat down and said, okay. This is gonna take some thought. Alright. What I wanna work on first.

Alright. Shooting. Alright. Let's knock this out. Let's focus on this half a year, 6 months, do nothing but shoot.

Alright. After that, alright. Creating your own shot then you focus it. So you start I started creating a menu of things.

When I

came back the next summer, I was a little bit better. Right?

And then you've been like, I've got my jump shot from 15. I've got my Yeah.

I got my jump shot from 15. I got my 3 point shot. Like, just open shots, not miss open shots. Right?

Be

able to shoot it with speed, because those kids are so much more athletic. Yeah. And then the next summer I came back, it was a little better. And the summer came back,

and the next summer

it was a little better. I scored. Yeah. And it wasn't much Right. But I scored.

Missed 12, 13. 12, 13. Then 14 came around, back half of 13, 14, years old. And then I was just killing everyone. And it happened in 2 years.

And I wasn't expecting it to happen in 2 years, but it did because what I had to do was work on the basics and the fundamentals. Well, they relied on their athleticism and their natural ability. And because I stick to the fundamentals, it just caught up to them. And then my body, you know, my knees stopped hurting. I grew into my frame and

And then your athleticism, once you have the fundamentals Exactly. The hard work, the mindset, and you tack on the athleticism

Exactly. It's game over. Then it was game over.

What was your, routine and ritual like after every game? Would you watch almost every game over or certain games?

All of them.

Every game you watch.

Every game.

The whole game back.

Whole game. No way. Yeah. So it started with me when I was a, when Phil Jackson's his first year here with the Lakers. 1 of the assistant coaches, his name is Tex Winter, and I call him Yoda.

I mean, he was like 82 when he got it. Wow. And, he was responsible for teaching me the triangle offense.

How were you then? I was 21. So 3 years, 4 years in the league?

Yeah. So my about my 4th year in the league. Okay. And so, I I I go up to his room, and this is when there there were no iPads or anything like that. Right?

So when you're on the road In

case Texas.

You have to call down to the front desk and have to bring up the TV Right. With the whole, you know, the rolly thing in the VHS and the cassette tape popping in. And I thought we were gonna watch what we call touches. So watch all your touches when you have the ball, all the decisions you made, good ones and bad. No.

We're watching the start of the game

Oh my gosh.

To the

end of the game. And not like not like the TV feed. Watching the in arena feed, the lay up line, the time outs. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Rewinding, stopping, fast forward rewinding, slow motion. Every little thing, every game of that season with the 82 year old Yoda.

Oh my gosh.

Who is as brutally honest as you can get.

What did that teach you that season?

Oh, it taught me to look at detail. Mhmm. Right, look at thing, things at their smallest. Right? Look at body language, you know, look at the energy between players, our team and the other team.

Wow. Right? Look at the tactics, you know, look at the overall strategy and to look at how tactically things are manifesting themselves. And because I watched so much film, then it gave me the ability to see game in real time as if I was watching film. Wow.

Or I can see bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah. Because a lot of times the game starts moving really fast. But if you train yourself to watch hours and hours of film, the game's not moving that fast anymore. You can really recognize who's doing what and why. Then you can position guys in the right places in real time.

Mhmm. Seeing it before it happens.

Yes.

Yeah. We, you know, on football we'd watch it once a week, game film, but not, you know, after every game. It was only 1 game a week.

You got like

3, 3 weeks sometimes.

Yeah, you gotta, you gotta go. I know

Tom Brady is obsessive over game film as well. I mean watching his show, that came out, Tom versus Time, was all about him just in there studying. Even months after the game, he's studying to prepare, right? It's just like he's obsessed. And that's, that's 1 of the keys you think.

It's like if you're not watching film, whether it be as a speaker on stage or a performer and a musician, if you're not watching yourself back, you gotta learn, man. I mean, Beyonce is the same same thing.

Really? After a performance, she's immediately on her laptop rewatching the performance. No way. Yes. Seeing how to do things better.

What could we have done differently? Right? I mean, it's just, it's it's an obsessiveness that comes along with it. You want things to be as perfect as they can be. Understanding that nothing is ever perfect, but the challenge is try to get them as perfect as they can be.

And what can you do? It's in your control. So control what you can. I can watch film all day long. It's gonna help me get better.

Yes. Yes.

Now did you have your teammates also follow on this obsessiveness that you had as well or did you just encourage them or what was the No. You can't push somebody

to do that. Right? But what you can do is is alter behavior and also change the vernacular of how they speak about the game. So on team busses, team planes, in a locker room after practice, I would look at the film, I'd pull Powell, Lamar, Dee Fish, pull him aside and say, let's look at this. Right?

We probably should have done this, that, and the other.

So you'll show them the game from a little bit here

and there. Then you speak to them in in executional terms. It's never come on guys, we can do better. Come on guys, we can do better. That's rah rah stuff.

Right? A leader must give very tactical, you know, things that we can do, adjustments. Okay. The defense is doing this, that, and the other. That means we should probably do this, this, this, that, and the other.

By midway through the season, through that behavior, you start seeing them communicating the same way back to you. Right? And it's like, okay, Kobe, they're doing this, that, and the other to you, maybe we should do this and that. I'm like, okay, yeah. Awesome.

Great.

Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. What about season 16, 17, 18? Are you still watching every game film as obsessively as the first 10 years?

Not now. No. Well, when I was playing When you were playing? Yeah. So when I was playing, what I would do is is, study the film, but study our younger players and see what areas do they need to develop in and how can I help them develop?

I mean, that's that was the big challenge as you move from, you know, being the single dominant player to understanding, okay, I have to help these other guys.

How do I lift everyone else up? It's tough. What I mean, you were so dominant in your whole career, 1 of the greatest of all time. Was there a weakness that you had or did you, because obviously you're always trying to master your weaknesses so they can your strengths, but at the end or towards the end did you ever feel like gosh I still haven't like mastered this 1 part of the game?

The challenge for me was always compassion and empathy.

Because you're like, guys, let's go. Get results. Shut up. Don't complain. Right?

I wanna hear your whining. I don't wanna hear it. Right. No excuses. Don't tell me how rough the water is.

Just bring the boat in. You know, I like, I don't want I don't wanna hear it, you know. And it's, it's understanding like, okay, these guys have lives. Right. Inside of here.

They have other things happening.

They have other things happening to them that may be affecting the way that they're practicing or the way that they're performing. Right. And it was hard for me to understand that because not nothing bothered me, you know, anything personally that never phased me when

I'm doing You compartmentalized it.

Very well. But so I couldn't understand how my teammates couldn't do that either. Until I, you know, so I had to really work on that aspect of it. That's hard. Yeah.

It is. So do you feel like

you never really had the compassion you wish you would have had, like, until the last maybe couple years?

Yeah. So I think about o 9, things started changing from me. I started really, making a conscious effort to better understand. And that doesn't mean, I mean, you have compassion and empathy, so you go soft on them. It's more like you you put you put yourself to the side and you put yourself in their shoes and understand what they're feeling.

And then you have to make certain decisions of, okay, what buttons do I need to push for this player to get them to the next level? So it's never, it's not sit around and all, it's all happy go lucky type

of thing.

If you're leader, your job is to get the best out of them, even if, you know, they may not like it at that time.

Yeah. Wow. What are you most proud of from your 20 seasons?

Honestly, it was, sounds, may sound a little shallow, but I gotta say beating the Celtics in game 7. That's what I'm most proud of because it was it was the hardest. You know, you're playing with Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and, you know, there's myself, Powell, and the players that other teams didn't want. And, you know, how do we figure out as a group what to do? And the reason why I love that series so much is that we went down 3 games to 2 against Boston.

And now you got 2 games coming home. I remember sitting in the locker room and they beat the crap out of us too that game. So we're sitting in a locker room and it's really, really quiet. I'm sitting there looking around and we just lost the Celtics in 0 8. So this is like revenge.

Right? And they're kicking our butt again. Right? So I sit around and I just started laughing. I started laughing and then I remember, Derek Fisher looked at me like and Lamar looked at me and goes, what what is funny?

I said, dude, they beat the crap out of the fuss. They just beat the crap out. I said, I'm missing the part where that's funny. I said, man, listen, if we start this season and they say, you know, all you have to do is win 2 games at home and you're NBA champ, would you take that? Yeah.

They're like, right, that's all we gotta do. Yeah. Go home, win 2, we're NBA champions. All you gotta do is win 2 games in a row, that's it. We'll take care of the first game and I promise you they're not winning game 7 on our home floor.

It's not happening. So we all just laughed about it and then we went out and we figured it out. But that game 7 was, we're down 15 points in the 4th quarter. Right? And that's when you have to collectively look at each other and say, you know, the spirit of your team must be good.

Because at that moment is when teams fracture. If the energy amongst each other isn't there, that trust isn't there, you're done. Mhmm. And we were able to collectively dig deep together and say, alright, we're gonna figure this thing out. Wow.

And I wasn't playing well, and I wasn't shooting the ball well at all. And so my teammates

picked you up and they delivered. Yes. Wow. What do you think the biggest challenge is for most athletes after they retire?

I think it's the fear of of starting anew and that was certainly, present for me as well. Really?

Yeah. Like identity you mean or Well,

it's it's starting from scratch. Right? Because when you when you play for 20 years, I play for 20 years, you reach a certain level. You're like, okay, wait a minute. I have to start again at the base of a mountain and try to climb the top of this mountain.

First of all, what mountain am I climbing? I don't even know, like, what the am I gonna be doing? And it'd be it's very, it's very scary.

It's very scary. Even for you?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing that helped me actually was hurting my Achilles because that forced me to sit there and say, okay, the day could be today that your career is over.

At any time when you were playing, you mean, yeah.

Now what do you do? You have these ideas about doing something with your life after basketball, but what if today is the day that you that's it. Now what do you do? So I had all this time sitting there with my Achilles injury and contemplating and thinking, and I said I better get to work. Wow.

That was that.

What was the vision for you afterwards then? Was it to do what you're doing now or did you have other ideas or what is, what's the vision for you?

I struggled with it at first because the first question I asked which is the wrong question is, what's the biggest industry I can get into?

Was it more money thinking? Yes.

Money thinking, saying, okay, athletes are saying you can't make more revenue when you retire. This is your source of your income is here. Saying, okay, that's a challenge. What can I do? And I remember going for

Didn't you launch a fund or something?

I did. I did. And so I I started I went for a ride and I said, okay. Stop thinking of it that way. You're thinking of it the wrong way.

Why did you start playing basketball? Because I loved it. What do you love to do? Oh, I love to tell stories.

All

right, let's do that. And then that's where it started for me. And, and then on top of that, it became things like, you know, we started learning more about the financial industry and about players going broke once they retire and saying, okay, how can I, how can I minimize the chances of that happening? What are things that I can do, to invest my money smartly, also help control some of that outcome to a certain extent. Right.

And that's when I called Mike Rapopoli. Mike Rapopoli was an entrepreneur who built Vitamin Water, Pirates Boot and some other companies, and started learning from them.

Storytelling is something you're really passionate about. What's a story, over your life that's been a constant theme that you go back to? Is there something you heard as a kid that you, that really resonates with you or a book or a movie that just feels like this is me?

Yeah. That's funny. Movies are plenty, but there's a quote from, 1 of my English teachers, a little Marian named, mister Fisk. He had a great quote that said rest at the end, not in the middle. Not gonna rest, I'm gonna keep on pushing now.

There are a lot of answers that I don't have, even questions that I don't have, but I'm just gonna keep going. I'm just gonna keep going and I'll figure these things out as you go. Right? And you just continue to build that way. Rest at the end.

Rest

at the end.

What's the question that eats you alive the most

that you haven't answered yet? The question that eats me alive that I haven't answered yet.

Oh, but you're

still looking for the answer.

I'm still looking for the answer. How to tell a good story. I'll think I'll think anybody has that answer.

You know, like when

I when I sat down to ride Dear Basketball, I was like, okay, what do I wanna say? And, you know, you you have certain acts and how you can structure certain things. Right? The ebbs and flows of story, certain formulas that have been there since the beginning of time. But it's such an in that in exact

So challenging.

Yeah. Right. And so that 1 question is really interesting.

Why do you wanna tell a great story?

I think stories is what moves the world. Whether it's an inspirational story, it's an informational 1, nothing in this world moves without story.

Mhmm.

Why do you think so many people struggle with self confidence and self belief today? Is it social media, outside influences? Is it people just don't think they're good enough? Like, how how come you were able to drink the Kool Aid and stay in that environment and not let outside forces creep in?

Yeah. I think that's important. And I think there's a difference between having self belief at your core and having situational moments where you don't feel good about it. Right? I there's a a 100 times more that I've walked in the court and just didn't feel great.

You know? Like, I don't

know if

I can do this. Right? So that's different than ultimately deep down knowing I have what it takes to do it. So those are 2 different things, right? So I would say, yeah, there have been plenty of times where I was like, 'Ugh!' You know?

Oh my God. But at the end, I always felt like I was worthy and that I deserved it. And, and that that's purely my background. It was purely my parents who just gave us that from the very beginning. Like, there was nothing else I ever heard since I could remember.

So I was very fortunate in that sense. And I think as an adult, I've I've definitely faced some moments where I was I have felt like, I don't know if I belong here. And, you know, that was yeah. That that that felt,

Like, what situations do you mean?

I I guess they call it imposter syndrome.

Really?

Yeah. So I've had different moments. I'm working with a new AI company in interior design. I'm thinking, should I really be here? I mean, I have a background in interior design, And then I had to fundraise for the first time.

This was a nightmare for me. Really? And, oh my God. Like, the anxiety and the the issues going into it, it was horrible. And I that's the moment where I understood imposter syndrome.

So I went through my whole life of, like, pretty much feeling like, you know, king of the court, and then I get there and have to raise money. I'm like, I don't wanna be here. I'm so afraid. What's happening? So I think that was a great experience for me, and I think that I saw it for what it was.

And I knew I had to push through. But it was extraordinarily uncomfortable. It was awful.

What was so uncomfortable about it? Was it doing something you've never done before, like getting out of your comfort zone and asking to raise money for something that maybe you're new at? Is is that what it was?

Exactly. My parents are once again, back to them. My mom said, never ask for anything. So just for me to to have to ask, like, you know, we're raising money. We need you to give us this oh, no.

I have to ask for money? This is out of my DNA. I don't ask for anything. I'm used to be able to do everything for myself. Also, just a pitch, like, in AI.

Like, I don't know anything about AI. I had to learn new terms. Like, What am I doing here? Just in general, I think on the second call, I, the person I was pitching with, they fell off. So they asked me, okay.

Yeah. What are next steps in the timeline? And I'm all by myself and you have to you

have

to say something. You know? And so those kinds of things happen and you're completely unprepared. And it's like, how do you deal with it? But I absolutely think that my experience in sport helped me to deal with that kind of dealing with ambiguity.

It's just it's not easy, but sometimes you don't know what's gonna happen when you walk on the court, but you have to deal with it. So I think that helped. But by by no means, it it was a tough situation. Do I ever wanna fundraise again? Absolutely not.

I hope I don't have to. It's not a place I'd like to be, but it was it was it was good to be very humbled.

Yeah. Wow. What do you think was the greatest skill that you developed in your training on the court and as an athlete that you're able to translate into these moments of raising money for a business?

Well, I mean, it's hard to pick 1. Right? I'm a workhorse. I don't mind working day and night. I'll work all day, work all night, and start over again, repeat.

I think that lack of fear of of laying it on the line, blood, sweat, tears, leave your heart out there, walk off on a stretch or not even walk off, be carried off on a stretcher. So, you know, that kind of thing, not being afraid of hard work, I think a lot of people are afraid of that level of intensity, but that's honestly what it takes to succeed. The people who are succeeding, a lot of times you see folks when they get to the finish line, the trophy's up. Right? They played a beautiful match or created an unbelievable business.

Now you see them and they're at billions. You never heard of them before. You didn't see them the 10 or 15 years that they put in. You didn't see their failures beforehand. No 1 sees, you know, the injuries that you have or on the court when you just can't get it right and the frustration and the back and forth and the losses.

So all of those things really teach you, all the lessons you need in life. And and the failures too. The failures that you have to get back up and you still have to believe in yourself just as much. And if you don't, still pretend at least that you do. Sometimes just faking it is enough.

Sometimes you don't know how you're gonna get there. And I think being okay with not knowing, but knowing that there is a point a to point b and you gotta get to point b, it's okay not to exactly know, but you know you're, you know, you're swimming through the through the water, you're climbing the mountain. Whatever you face, you have to do it on your terms.

Wow. Have you ever been afraid of failure or have you just been confident? No. Really?

For sure. For sure. Everyone is. But it you can't you can't let it stop you. My mom always said, Fear is the devil.

And also, you have to think about the decisions you would make if you weren't afraid. You know, like, if I wasn't afraid, what shot would I actually go for? Right. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. What would I try? What what would I give up also if I weren't afraid? A lot of times it's not even about going forward, actually, what would you let leave behind?

Interesting. A

lot of times we hang on to the stuff that's just holding us back. And also, if you aren't afraid, are you then you can actually look at yourself. I think sports teaches you self awareness. And I have a real thing for not being self aware and being around people who aren't self aware. It bothers the heck out of me.

Right. You know? So if you're not self aware, if you do not tell yourself the truth, you will not win.

Wow. And that's

what it's about, winning and being honest with yourself.

What's the thing speaking of holding on to things, what's the thing that you, in your life, held on to for the longest period that once you let go of it, allowed you to step up in a greater way as an athlete or a human or, you know, in business? What was that thing?

You know, this is gonna sound weird, but I'm a I'm a person who's always involved in the arts. Uh-huh. And when you are buying art, for me, I buy or look at art that I love because it makes me happy, and I find it beautiful. There is no category. I don't buy just this or that.

And so over the years, when you look back, you're like, I should have gotten that piece. I thought about it, or I should have invested in this artist. And it's about buying work that you love and you get to live with it, right? And so I would walk through art fairs, and everywhere you looked was someone else that I just didn't get that has, like, blown up now. And I think finally, once I let it go, I let it go, I felt such peace.

You know?

Just like such peace of, like, it's fine. That was hard. I know that's a weird answer.

So the letting go of the letting go of, oh, I should have invested in this. I should have taken this action and and beating yourself up, You let that part of you go for that.

Yeah. I had to let that go. And now I feel free. So

That's good. That's good.

I know you weren't expecting that answer, but

No.

Whatever's on your heart and mind. What do you

think It's regret.

What do you think has been the, the emotion that you've had to that you held on to for too long in your life that when you let go, allowed you to be a better human being, a better athlete, a better, you know, person in your family?

On some emotions. Really? No. I I mean, an emotion is just

a bad or beliefs or beliefs?

I don't I don't know. I I don't I don't hold on to things. I think that's 1 of my strengths, that I can

I do

let go outside of that art thing? But you things happen as they happen. I think I would hold on to things if I was continuing to make the same mistakes over and over, but I'm human. I make mistakes. Sometimes I make a decision that could have been better, but I learn from it immediately.

I set responsibility for it and I move on. And I think that's all you can do, right? So you can't you can't hold on to stuff. Right. Unless you have a time machine and you can go backwards.

But otherwise, there's no point.

What would you say, you know, your your parents, obviously, I think a lot of people know about your parents making a big impact in your life. You speak about them a lot. What would you say is the greatest lesson that each of your parents taught you growing up that you still hold on to today and implement today in your life?

Yeah. You know what? That's hard because there's there were so many lessons. You have to understand everything was a lesson. Even watching a cartoon was a lesson.

Like, there was nothing that wasn't a lesson. So I'm so grateful for that. And as I've, you know, had time to spend around my nieces, I just feel like I've just totally failed because I've made I feel like I haven't made anything a lesson yet. Like, I gotta bring my parents' energy to this. But, I think 1 of the biggest gifts my parents gave me was spirituality.

Yeah.

It's so important to have something to believe in. It's so important to have hope. The world's a beautiful place, but it's a tough place too. And if you don't have belief in values, you will do anything and then you'll get anything. If you don't have hope, it's gonna be hard to get through this world where so many things happen.

And it's not even to you, but to other people that you you hear about that is so disheartening. So, all that is very grounding, and I think it helps you to let go of stuff. It helps you to play better in your game. It helps you to realize, like, I'm gonna give my everything to this. And if I feel that's fine, I have something bigger and better that's backing me up.

And I think it just lets you be happy. So to me, the that's the biggest gift that they gave me.

Who is this?

I'm just like my mom, though. I my family joke's transformation complete. We're exactly the same. And I'm proud

of that.

I love being just like her, but we we have our weaknesses. We definitely have weaknesses.

What is your weakness that you think you could improve on?

0 patience.

It's Me too.

I can't always read the room as well as I like. My emotional intelligence is as high as I'd like it to be. And that's not Really? Something I can fix. You're born how you are.

And I just tell people I'm empathetic, but I don't always pick up on it. Just tell me. I'll be there.

Just let

me know.

Well, so you gotta you gotta let me in some some things. And, I think once I became aware of it, because during COVID, I had a friend stay with me, and, like, the friend came and, like, ate all the food, drank all the drinks, didn't get groceries. So I'm, like, buying food, buying drink, buying groceries, and

everything.

Everything. You know? Because we just we thought it was gonna be a few weeks or the last few months. Right? It was a fun experience, but I had to learn how impatient I was.

And also the standard I hold for myself is so high, but because of the standard my parents held, like, we weren't even allowed to walk slow. My dad would say, Slow walker, slow thinker. You can't walk slow. So everything was fast, quick. So I learned to do things so quickly, so fast, so efficient that then, you know, someone else is in your house

and you see that their movement is

so slow.

And you're like, this could be done in a minute. Like, what are you doing? And, you know, my house is someone else's, so I didn't I never complained about it. But it was like, buy some groceries. Like, you can't just eat all the food.

You know? So I I learned a lot about myself, and I realized that I needed to work on my EQ. Yeah. And then I realized that, some people had more of it and others don't. So I always my family helps me understand things and situations.

They're like my crutch.

Are you do you feel like you're just overly generous and not you're not thinking, oh, is this person just taking advantage or just maybe they weren't thinking about contributing or

No. Not even that. But like, once I was at a party and I was talking to some friends, and then 1 of my friends came over. And when she left, everyone said, what's wrong with her? She seemed horribly sad, and I never saw it.

And so I said, wait, let me go check on her. So I those are things, like, I will never see and it's not because I don't want to, it just goes over my head. So those those kinds of things I've seen, I I can improve on. That's why I tell people I care about it. I was like, I have this, you know, this thing that it doesn't work as well as others.

So just tell me everything.

Sure. I'm curious about your, you know, your mindset, you know, against with someone like yourself who has accomplished so much at the highest level in the world of what you do. Can you break down a little bit on how you think before entering a big moment in your life, in your in your sport, or in the business you're building? Like, is there a process that you think about when you're going to enter the arena of whatever you're working on? Is there a mantra, a process?

Do you visualize something? Do you, like, do you release something? Can you just walk through a little bit about that process?

I think the process changes depending on the moment you are in life. Right? I think you have these moments as an athlete or in business or in life where you're on top of the world, you can do nothing wrong, everything's golden. Then you're like, okay. It's great.

You're in a row you're in a you're in a flow. Right? And then you have other moments where it's not great. And so you have to be more, cognizant of of that process, be super self aware, and really extract out what's what what you're feeling and figure out what part's real and what isn't. Because we can get the feels.

Right?

Mhmm.

And you have to distract, like, what's what is just a feeling and what is the what is the issue? Yeah. And, I do that by journaling. Really? I start writing what I'm feeling.

And then once I start writing down all the things I'm feeling, then I'm able to recognize this is actually the 1 thing that's real is an issue. The rest is just a a bunch of other stuff that's just floating in my head. And I can get rid of the fluff and then focus on the real thing that's bothering me. I think also a lot of being about being your best is just preparation. You cannot be great without the preparation, and you can't feel good about what you're doing unless you've done the work.

So the greats are doing the work. They're putting in the work day in, day out. If you're in finance, you're you're up all night reading, whatever that is that it it takes to do that, being on top of your industry, thinking literally just sitting and thinking and meditating about what you like to accomplish. And it's the same in sport too. You you sit and you meditate about what you'd like to accomplish.

So being great is intentional. And then when you're in a bad place, also getting out of it is also intentional too. But it's just realizing where you are and applying what you need to succeed no matter where you are. And I think when you're in a bad place, you just have to realize that a lot of it is also mental too. You can just Wait.

What I try to tell myself is that this moment, I'm anticipating what might happen that could be bad. But anticipation is just that it's not even real.

Right.

What if something great happened? What if something amazing could happen? What if I could make that happen? And it's like changing your thought around things is so powerful. And it's not easy, and you have to constantly work on it.

But if you put in the work, your mind will change. It's like anything else. If you go to the gym and do those biceps for 6 weeks, you're gonna see some improvement. So if you flex your mind in a different way instead of saying I can't for 6 weeks if you say I can for 6 weeks, your mind goes on a completely different pathway, and it's so powerful and so true. And it's not easy.

And you have to continually do it. Once you do it just once Really? It doesn't just stick. You just have to keep training your mind. And I think sometimes people forget that part, that training your mind is so important.

If you want want to be strong mentally, train to be strong mentally.

Oh, I love that. How do you train to to stay strong mentally, personally?

Yeah. For sure. Come 1st is preparation. Right?

Uh-huh.

Doing the preparation. That's that's ground 0.

Doing the work. Pardon the reps. You're Yeah. Yeah.

Putting in the work. Whatever that may be, you have to you have to put in the work. Uh-huh. So if you don't do that, you're never gonna be great. You're never gonna be mentally strong or whatever it is you'd like to achieve.

Once you've put in the work, then you realize what you're good at, what you're not. I mean, me personally, I think there's probably a lot of people who are smarter, who who are gonna get that 1600 on the SAT. I'm probably not gonna get the 1600. Yeah. But my strength is that, you know, I'm extremely logical and, you know, I notice patterns.

I'm very quick in those sorts of things. So then I have to set myself up in a way that plays in my strengths. Not everyone's gonna have the same strength, not everyone's gonna be good at everything, but once you've done your work and you see your strengths, then you gotta figure out a way to play to that. And then always, of course, work on your weaknesses over time. And those, at some point, can come up too until you're, like, this complete player, you know, ready player 1.

So and it's just yeah. It's like, let's play this game to win. If we're gonna play, let's win, or else there's no need to play.

Absolutely. I think a lot of people want to win at whatever game they're playing in life or their career or their business or their sport. They they want to be more successful. They want to win. And it seems like more than ever, society, at least in America, American society, it seems like everyone lower.

Lots of people want to become more famous, wealthy, and successful.

You got it.

And the more people I interview and ask about this who have fame, wealth, and success, they talk about, you know, the pressures that come with that. Can you share a little bit about how you were did you feel like you were mentally and emotionally prepared when you became, you know, a world icon in your sport and you started to gain popularity, fame, success, money? Did you feel you were mentally and emotionally prepared, or was that a challenge, Or was it was it a lot of pressure at first?

I think I was aware of the pressure. I started really young. Like, my first pro mattress were teens. So a lot of it, though, the the youth and the inexperience is in some way a protection, you just don't really, really get it.

You don't know. Yeah.

You know? But also it can go the other way too. And I think there were some matches where I I felt pressure to perform up to maybe what I was supposed to be, like this hype. But at the end of the day, I failed sometimes. And then the failure was a lesson.

Yay. And I learned from it. And so that was like, you know, even though I failed, it was still a step up.

Yeah. It

wasn't a step down because I learned something. And I got more determined. So I think that a lot of what people want today is based on what they think other people have in social media. I think that's a lot of pressure for young people to to be successful, like, immediately. No one's successful that young.

I was successful young, but I started playing tennis at 4, and I put in a decade Wow. Before I even, like, went pro. So, yes, it was young, but there was there was, you know, millions of hours of work that happened before that happened. Nothing happens that fast. And, really, the process is the most joy I find.

Right? When you when you can't figure something out or you do figure it once you figure it out and you've put in the work and you find the right process and you're able to repeat that process over and over and over again, the sense of pride and accomplishment that you get, not from the success, but the work you put in to get there, that's where the happiness comes from.

Wow.

And I

think there might be a generation now that doesn't understand that, that there's so much pride in your work. Like, what you do, work is a part of your happiness. You don't wanna circumvent that, of that's a part of who you are, that accomplishment. Accomplishing things gives you confidence and happiness. And so if you are empty or because you haven't you skipped that process, then it's something to look at.

Wow. Did you ever feel like you got punished after a loss?

No. Nothing was worse than the punishment that I felt, like, internally. Oh. You know? That my expectation of myself.

And I think that's a good thing and a bad thing. You gotta temper it. Right? Sometimes your expectations can be you can be so hard on yourself that you never pat yourself on the back enough. But some people aren't hard enough on theirselves, and so then they never make it.

You gotta find the middle the middle ground of, like, being hard, but also, like, recognizing the things you accomplished too.

Yeah. And not holding on to it for, like, days or weeks of, of, you know, a loss

or something. That's that's easier said than done. Like, we hold on to our losses whether we realize it or not. And you just have to think about this a new day.

Like, it's a

new possibility. And that's not easy.

Absolutely. The younger generation might have today or the confusion around how to build confidence. Can you share and I think this speaks into building a confident identity. Can you share your passion for really starting to shift the conversation from appearance to capability and and your own personal journey given the insights in this issue.

It's so important that does does this matter what you look like? It matters what's inside of you that you can get out to live the life that you want to live. And figuring out what that life is and that having other people's approval, or none of those things really matter for, you know, it doesn't help you get out of bed. You know? The research has shown that about 45% of girls globally quit sports by the age of 14, and that's due to low body confidence.

Mhmm.

And when I think about, what if that happened to me? I turned pro at 14. What if I had stopped sports at age 14 because I knew good about myself? I mean, this is literally my life. I got to play sports and change my life.

And through that and that was never my plan. I just wanted to win Wimbledon. Yeah. Change other people's lives. Just by doing something positive for yourself, you never know what impact you're gonna have on not only yourself, but the world.

I had no idea that was gonna happen. I just wanted to lift the trophy. Not everyone goes pro, not everyone becomes an athlete, but what you learn from sports is unparalleled. You cannot teach in a classroom or in a book what you learn from sports.

How did you learn to build confidence during a time of maybe not feeling that confident growing up?

Gosh. I think that's, you know, I think that's the thing is that you you you don't you don't get confidence by thinking about having confidence, you know, you get confidence by action. And I never had confidence before I started wrestling. And I think that's why I was always trying to fit in or with the with the kids that were drinking and that would make me cool and then I'd be smoking and it would take the edge off from the self consciousness and everything that was going on at home at the time. And, and then when I was 15, and I just failed PE, I was getting ready for my junior cert, which is I'm not sure what the equivalent is over here.

But it's your when you're 15, you're doing these exams in school, That at the time, they make it seem like if you fail these, your life is over. Really? But but yeah. The all the pressure that they put on you in school

This will determine the rest of

your life. Exactly.

Where you

go to school and college and everything else. Yeah.

And that's how and that's what what I felt like. And at the time, even though I was a little degenerate and I I wasn't doing good in school and I was drinking and I was smoking. I was doing everything that I shouldn't be doing. Like, I still had ambition. I still wanted to do something good in my life.

I still want it to be a lawyer or or something productive in society. And, and and I realized on 1 random Monday when I wanted a beer, that

A 15? A 15 that I needed to turn my life around. I needed to do something

different, that I failing PE and just not applying myself to anything. And so I started looking up, like, different kickboxing things because gyms weren't a thing in Ireland back then. There was, like, 2 or something. You know, there was there was there was this big gym, but it was too preppy. It was too preppy, and I was an alternative kid, you know, the ones with the the black lipstick and the dog collars and all that kind of stuff.

And, and so I you know, going to a gym just seemed too mainstream for me, too too Jane Fonda. Uh-huh. And so, then 1 day, I go into the computer room, because in 2,002, everybody had a computer room. And, my brother's looking up this website, and it was called Hammerlock. And it was this, wrestling school over in the UK.

And I was like, what are you what are you doing there? And he said, well, I I I was thinking about training as a wrestler. Instantly, I had this jealousy, this this this feeling of I need to do that. And, I was like, oh, you're gonna go over there? And he was like, yeah.

Yeah. And, I was like, there's no way there's no way my mom is gonna let me go over to the UK to train 15. I'm also a degenerate. Like, she's aware she's aware that I'm going off the rails. And then and then the promoter there wrote back to him to let him know that there was 2 Irish lads that were gonna be open in the school, like, an hour away from us on the train.

And so that's how I found out about it. And he told me that.

And I was like, oh, I wanna go too.

He was like, no. You're not going. You have to be 16. And I was like, I'll lie. And he was like, no.

I don't wanna have to

look after my little sister. I was like, you won't have to. Lying. And, and and I went down there, and, and I started, and that was it. All of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I wanted to apply myself to something.

I wanted to get better at something. I saw progress in in each training session, and that built confidence because not only was I applying myself and getting better at something and seeing results, but I also now had this community. And I think there there and and there was also this feeling of, like, I'm I'm different, which, you know, I always felt a little different. You know, I wasn't wasn't cool kid, even though I tried to be. But but but but now I had this confidence in my difference, you know.

And I was the only girl there too. I was the only girl in a group of lads, and I was hanging with them. Or maybe not, but I was I was there. I felt like I was. And so that gave me confidence that I could do this, and I could set myself apart, and and and there was something more to me.

Mhmm. And then I just continued on there. I never thought or not that I never thought. Maybe I had, like, this this suppressed dream, but I still thought I was gonna be a lawyer and do something realistic

Really?

Until I was, like, 17. And it was the first time I had, played the heel role, the bad guy role. And I was teaming with my brother. And when you're a heel, when you're the bad you can do no wrong because you can just have fun. You can taunt the crowd.

You can be an idiot. And, That's

your job.

Yes. There's such freedom in that. There's such freedom in that. And I came back and I was, this is this is this is what I need to do. This is what I'm meant to do.

This is what I'm gonna do.

At 17?

At 17. And then by 18, dropped out of college, moved over to Canada, wrestled around Canada, around America, around Japan, around Europe. My visa ran out from Canada. I had to move back in with my mom and my mom, God bless it, like, she's only ever wanted the best for me. And the best in her eyes was not being a wrestler, especially back then because what I want and what I visualize for myself was was me being seen on par as The Rock as Stone Cold Steve Austin as Mick Foley is all these lads that I looked up to.

But if you watch TV and you watched how the women were booked, there was lots of bra and panties matches. There was mud wrestling matches. That wasn't anything I wanted to do. That was certainly nothing my mother wanted me to do. And and so

There was an opportunity for women to really be stars back then

Not when you started?

Not in the way that I wanted to be. Not in the way that I wanted to be. And so so I started looking at the women's promotions in Japan. And then I went over there and I wrestled in Japan. And, I got assigned to this advertising agency over there that wanted to promote me as this big time wrestler.

You can't necessarily plan it.

Why not? Why can't you plan it?

You can have a a rough plan, but so much is out of your control. You know, you can work towards what you want, but you you can't decide when you're when you're going to get on somebody's radar, what they're going to be looking for. You know, I think it's the same with with with say, for example, an actor an actor can do the best audition of their life, but they might have brown hair and the person is looking for blonde hair. And so they see this great audition, but that's not what they were looking for on that day. And, and so I started to believe that if I looked a certain way, that that would give me that that was my plan.

That that is how I would get there because all these women looked like figure competitors and they were beautiful models and, you know, it was just a regular average looking girl with a a a bit of a pair of biceps on me and decent set of shoulders. But, like, at the time, you know, there was there was enhancements that were standardly involved in the hiring process. And I I didn't have them nor did I want to get them. And, and and so I thought, well, if if I have abs and if I'm ripped, then if I look in this way, then they'll want me. And so kind of compare it to the survivor song and on the eye of the tiger and you change your passion for glory because then my my focus shifted from just how I looked and how that would make if I change how I am to make them want me as opposed to being true to myself.

Interesting. How long did

you them. Yeah. Wanting

Wanting you for who you are?

For who I am. So

how long did you transform into someone you think they would want? How long was that process for?

Well, it didn't last very long because I completely destroyed myself. So I started I I I I started bodybuilding then. I like was like, oh, let me sign up for this bodybuilding competition. And if I can do well in this bodybuilding competition, then they'll see the just the logic that goes through my head. They'll see that.

And then they'll be like, oh, yeah. Let's sign her. Like, she'll be on a magazine or something and we'll sign her that way.

Interesting. How old were you then?

19.

Okay.

I was 19 then. And, I mean, maybe it would have worked if I committed to it. But anyway, the point was I didn't know what I was doing. I was with this lad who had never trained a girl before. He was a bodybuilder himself, but he was a giant man.

And, giant giant man. And who had done many competitions. And he was trying to me and my diet, then my diet was all over the place. And then he put me on to this other guy who gave me this other diet, which then I just became emaciated. And I was trying to wrestle around Japan and all this on my body was just hurting.

But, like, I was loving how I looked in the mirror because I had these abs and I was, like, disciplined and my focus was what I was gonna eat and how I was gonna train and, like, I had this dense sense of ego, like like, look at how disciplined I can be. I am so much better than everybody because I have this discipline. But ultimately, I was, like, dying on the inside because I had no energy. My moods were all over the place. I was, like, leering at cookbooks of what I was going to eat when when when this diet finished.

And, and and and and ultimately, I I ended up not being able to make it past 10 weeks of this diet. There was 2 more weeks till the competition. I just the guy who was trying to me suggested a cheat meal and that was it. Then I just went completely off the rails and couldn't get back on.

Wow.

And then that that that then became an unhealthy relationship with food for years. Really? Years years years completely destroyed, how I looked at myself and everything like that and how I valued myself.

How did you value yourself then?

On on how I on how I looked. Suddenly, like, from somebody who had gone from valuing myself on my substance and what I brought to the table, in terms of wrestling and my craft. I was then just now I was just conforming to what I thought thought they wanted and what society wanted. But by then then I was like, I don't even know if I want to wrestle anymore. Maybe that dream is over.

It's time to be realistic and get a real job. Then I end up being a flight attendant. And,

so you were wrestling. You were pursuing professional wrestling, I guess, at the time. Yeah. Then you quit to be a flight attendant?

Then well, then I was like, well, then then I started thinking, like, oh, well, maybe I'll be a fitness model because that'll be easy on my body and but I couldn't maintain it because I was so hungry. I just loved eating. Like, I loved eating so much. And as but and so then that that then I became bulimic and all of these things. And it was really just just going from being somebody who cared about about their mind, who who who thought their mind was powerful, to just thinking that I was a set of abs and a pair of arms, you know, and that was where I put my focus.

It took a long time to shake that.

How old were you when you shook it?

35. Wow.

No. No.

No. No. No. Not quite. But, like, I think it was a process.

It was a process. It was it was a process because I was a flight attendant. Hated it, but was still trying. I then did the bodybuilding competition. I came 3rd, by the way

Wow.

Out of 4. Okay. That is yeah. Yeah. It sounded it sounded impressive.

So so I did the bodybuilding competition was like standing up on stage. Oh, my goodness. I'm so glad they just everybody didn't have an iPhone back then. But I I did the and I was just like, why am I standing in my underwear showing people my muscles? Like, this this isn't this doesn't feel like me, you know, because for some people for some bodybuilders, it's such an artistic thing.

They are sculpting their body. They are they they love it. They love the discipline of it. But for me, it was it was some sort of a means to an end. Some sort of way for me to be validated by society or something that that and it just didn't feel authentic and and and true to me.

It just felt like I was, yeah, I was just trying to be something that I wasn't. It was just consumed by by my body will be my vessel too. Wow. But if if it looks a certain way, then then I'll be successful and whatever. And then I I I then I started to realize that, like, the part of wrestling that I loved it.

It wasn't just the training. It was the performance. I loved the performance of the crowd. I loved the creativity. I loved the storytelling.

And I think throughout my whole life, I found that storytelling is what draws me more than anything. Like, in school, I was terrible at every subject except English and history because it was just stories. Like, it was it was hearing stories and and and learning about these stories. And I rocked at those subjects terrible at everything

else.

And, and and and and so then I I went back to school to study acting. And

Is this in London now or where is it?

This is in Dublin.

Oh, so I met

in Dublin.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm kind of all over the place. But, like, at 22, I went back to college, studied acting in in Dublin, and then did a year in Chicago. Wow. And that felt like, okay.

Now now I'm back. Now I'm back a little bit. And then it it it it it seemed more like I was part of a creative endeavor then.

Really? When you're doing the acting?

Yes.

Where did you feel like you were not connecting with in that 1st year? Was it a story aspect?

The story part was what helped me. That's what saved my job.

Kept you in it?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Dusty Rhodes was the promo teacher at the time, And Dusty, like, loved his his broken toys. The ones that were, like, rough around the edges, but he saw that had some soul or something something about them.

Just just a little something, just a spark. And he he tried to bring that out. And so I didn't know. I didn't know who I wanted to be. I did the everybody was, like, find a character, find a character, find a character.

So I try out all these stupid characters.

None of them worked?

No. And, of course, none of them worked. They were all awful. But, like, they're but but it was it was the trying. It was the Yeah.

Yeah.

It was the being able to put yourself out there and throw at the wall and see what sticks.

Right.

Nothing stopped. But but but but I tried, and I kept I kept trying. And I think he valued the creativity more than more than the outcome. Because if somebody came in, they were the total package. I can point to there's a a wrestler called LA Knight at the time, who right now is making big waves in wrestling.

But at the time he was down there, we started on the same day. And he had everything. He had it just down. He had it down, you know. So Dusty had no He was smooth.

He was great. Yeah.

Dusty was like, yeah, you're great. But he had no more work to do because he already had his act down. Whereas somebody like me was completely lost, completely screwed. Had, an an an I think I think I think there was a combination of of Dusty and William Regal that saved my job Wow. Many, many times because they saw that there was something something there in this Irish girl that had not a clue.

So That had not a clue. Because I didn't, like, look like any of these other girl that were, like, stunners. I was I wasn't great in the ring. But there was something when I talked to that.

Was unique. Was that brand?

Unique. Yeah. Interesting.

Is it like 6 days a week training?

It was so it was like 5 days a week, and then we would do 3 shows. So you do Monday. Tuesday, you would do a school session, which is you'd watch matches, but then there'd be extra training.

Gosh. That would have been so fun.

The watching the matches?

Just, I mean, that whole experience. Just like being a full time athlete, training, watching, testing, trying just like

In hindsight. Right. In hindsight. But during

it but during it was

But I remember that that was 1 of the things that, Triple H would always say, you know, because he was head of developmental and he was always enjoy this. Enjoy this. There's no gonna be There was times when I would feel like I was in a Rocky movie and you know like I get that like and you could enjoy it but the other part of it was not sleeping because you were always scared that you were going to be on the chopping block.

You could

be cut like every week.

Yeah. Yeah. There was they we called it Black Friday. And you'd come in, you'd get pulled into the office. And that was it.

Your dream would be over. And, you know, I had several friends that that got cut and and it was devastating. And my friend, Joe, the reason that I got signed in the first place who I lived with, he got caught. And so that was a whole new world to navigate. But but so once once the fear of not being cut subsided, then you could enjoy

it more. Sure.

But when you were scared that you were gonna get fired every other day, not enjoyable. Not enjoyable at all.

So when did you feel like I'm making it? Like, when did you feel like, okay, I'm I'm actually making it, I don't know, in my sport, in society, culturally, financially? When was the moment from 10 years ago to, like, I'm arriving?

So I think it was shortly after that. Shortly after the breakdown shortly after the breakdown of okay. Wait. I'm not a bad person. And then I remember coming into promo class, not doing a character, but just cutting an angry promo of of of I am sick of the I put in all of this work.

I have done this. I have done that. I have done this. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And and and and this is why I deserve a shot.

This is why I need to be on TV. And I remember cutting that promo. And then, like, people, like, seeing a bit more of an edge and it wasn't just a, hi. Yeah. Please don't fire me.

Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. I'm I'm so happy to here.

Like, there was there was this there was now this weird confidence and this, I wasn't so meek anymore. Like, I had a chip on my shoulder and I was ready to fight. And then things started to to to happen there. And, like, then I got on TV, 1 of the worst debuts of all time off. Really?

Oh my god. Terrible. I came out there doing the stupid Irish jig, and I count I count the Irish jig. But, like You

tried to dance?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tried tried it.

Tried to

do the Irish dance.

Tried to do the Irish dance. Like, as as hammed up as possible. Oh my god. Like, shameless. Just shameless.

But, like, at the time, there was this the this girl, Emmett, she was do doing this wacky dance. And it was like, okay. Well, like, wackiness is getting people on TV. There was there was just wacky characters left, right, and center. Because that was the thing about the developmental system down there.

You got the chance to be wacky and you got the chance to try things and fail. And so I failed epically, publicly.

On TV?

On TV. Oh. That lives on forever. That will never be erased from history. But hey, if you can come back from that, you can come back from anything.

Let's go.

And and so the greatest part of it was like I didn't even realize how awful it was until like a few nights later. And, like, I remember seeing Triple H and being like, what did you think? As if he was like, oh, yeah. That was amazing.

You dominated. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the audience loved me. They they were still they were real positive to me.

I think, come on, like, I was a little idiot. Like, I suppose you couldn't really boo me. Like, god bless her. You know? What did she think?

What was she thinking? Look at this fool. But, but, yeah. And and then and then, and then I tried various different things. But I remember I remember after that, and then just having this different perspective and this gratitude that I was able to pay my bills.

And the food in my fridge was bought by the money that I made from wrestling. And the roof over my head was paid for by the money that I made from wrestling. And I was driving a car with the money that

I made

from wrestling. And, like, I were just driving with just tears of gratitude that I could afford these things with the money that I had made from wrestling because it it I've never felt like money that I've made from wrestling is real money. You know? It just doesn't feel like real money because I'm not working. You know?

You're having fun.

I'm I'm having fun. I love I love what I do. I love what I do. Wow. I love it.

I love it. And sometimes and sometimes it's hard, and sometimes there's so many opinions and there's, you know, like our wrestling fans, they're so vocal and they're so great. But, you know, you take the good with the bad. So sometimes you're getting lots of negative opinions on what you're doing or you're getting and so were you were you think creative could should be this way or you should be booked that way. And so you can get bogged down in those things.

When it comes to the creative process, and I'm putting together a match or I am thinking about a promo, I don't think there's anything bar, like, playing with my child that makes me feel more alive. Like, I just I love it so much. And I love just, like, something coming to me and building from that. You know, just these little seeds of ideas. Like, what if we try this?

You know, what if we try this? Maybe this will work and maybe it'll be awful. But that's the greatest thing about wrestling is that you because we do it 52 weeks a year, because we're on the road constantly, you get to try and fail so often, but you get to try and succeed so often too. And you never know which way it's gonna go. But if you keep trying, you know, sometimes you hit gold.

What was And sometimes you don't.

Right.

Sometimes you think something's gold and other people don't, then but that's art. Right? Like, you do the art for what you want to do, and then whatever the audience takes out of it is up to them.

Big, WWE fan, Rick Rubin, we had on the show.

I love Rick.

And he talks about what you just said, making art for you. And writing in your journal, in your diary, the things that are meaningful for you, your art, not worrying what people are gonna think about it, but having the courage to put it out there and allowing others to see it as well. That's, like, part of the process.

Yeah.

And, he's a big fan, isn't he?

Oh, he's a huge wrestling fan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And his book is

It's amazing. Have you read it yet? So good.

Read it, listened to it. Yeah.

He's great.

Yeah. And I I love because I just like sometimes I just, I'm like, okay, what do what do I need right now?

Universe, tell me. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, of course, it's exactly what you need in that moment. I love it. But it is it is that. But the other thing about wrestling, which is so different from any other artistic endeavor, like writing a book.

Mhmm. You have it you you you can take your time. You know, if you're writing a script or whatever, maybe like a movie or a song if you have an album. But like, say if you're writing a song, you can just take your time to do that. I think we don't we we ain't got time.

Yeah. Like this show is gonna go live on TV.

We gotta make

it happen now. PM. And if at 7 PM you don't have something, you better find something because we're we're we're gonna go live.

Have you ever not felt like you were prepared before going live and having to come up with something on the spot?

A 1000000 times.

Really?

Yeah. Because now it's different. But, it used to be back in the day, the show would be getting rewritten while the show is going on. Wow. In front of people.

So you would have like an idea of what you're going to say, and then somebody comes up with, no. No. No. No. No.

You have to say this. Find a way to put this in. And so you're okay going out the curtain and changing things.

As you're going out Yes.

You have to evolve what you're gonna say.

So sometimes and and that's happened, like, several times and but it's really exciting.

It's scary, but exciting. It's a disaster.

It's chaos. Yeah. And it's chaos. And so whatever comes out is great Wow. Because you can't it's just organic.

It's in the moment.

It's the ultimate yes and experience.

Yes. I love it. It's so exciting. So you don't know what's gonna happen, but something's gonna happen. There's been so many times when I've had, like, we're putting together a match, but we haven't had the time.

And so, like, you're going out and you think that you have something, but you're not sure and you're not sure if everybody else is on the same page. But you go out there and something happens. Like, something's gonna happen because something has to happen.

And based on what happens, they might rewrite the next thing and the next thing, and it just keeps evolving.

Yeah. Because you never go out there and nothing happens.

Right.

Because that can't happen. Because that would be weird. You know, like, people aren't just going to stand in the rain and wait to be told what to do.

Someone's gonna do say something, gonna hit someone, and you just gotta

go on

to the next person. Yeah.

And we're just gonna go because that's what has to happen. Yeah. So it's it's such a

They'll throw you out there. You just figure it out. Yeah.

It's such an exciting

A lot

of that's exciting. I I told you I've never been to a show, so I gotta come and watch You gotta come. Watch you.

You gotta come. It's the best.

I'm curious. When is there a moment and you've had so many different matches over the last, you know, 10, 15 years. When was the match or the moment that you were in the most flow? That you felt like 100% authentic to you, that the words were flowing, the movement was flowing, like it was all connecting, and the audience was connected to you.

Gosh. I suppose there's several. Like, recently recently, I had a match with Trish Stratus. It was a cage match. And it it it just felt like, yeah.

I'm so present. Everything that needs to happen is happening. And that was back in September. So that's like there's, like, these big matches that stand out. Because it, you know, it'll often happen on live events and different things, but there's big moments, these big events built around it.

And then, the a match that I had with, Bianca Belair, WrestleMania 38, 1 of my favorite matches. 1 of my favorite stories, leading up to it. And I was the bad guy, and I loved it. I loved that I was having so much fun. And she was she's this great athlete and and this great baby face, and she can do everything.

And, and I was getting to because I'd robbed the title from her essentially, like, I'd I'd under handedly beat her.

Yeah.

And I was going to be able to to give her back her championship. She would beat me for it. I wasn't handing it over. She would beat me for it. But it was that, you know, her, redemption story.

And that was that was so fun to be a part of. And then there was another match that I had in 2018 with Charlotte Flair. It was the last woman standing. And that 1 stands out because I remember it being the 1st match where I felt confident in it in the moment. I can do no wrong.

Really? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. What year is this?

It's 2018.

2018. Okay. I want people to get your book. It's beautiful stories, lessons, about someone from, you know, really a small town, small country who was able to become 1 of the biggest stars in the world and all the different life lessons and stories along the way, which are really inspiring. So I want people to get a copy of your book, The Man, Not Your Average Average Girl.

Make sure you guys check this out by Rebecca Quinn. Really inspiring stuff and just some really cool stories in here that I think people will like whether you're into WWE or not. You know? Again, I've never been to a match, but I thought all this stuff was fascinating, so I'm I'm coming. 1 of these days, I'm gonna be there.

I have 3 final questions for you, Rebecca. The first 1 is called the 3 truths. It's a hypothetical question. So I'd like you to imagine, if you can, a moment that you get to live as long as you want in this world, but it's your last day many years away. You get to pick as old as you want to be, but eventually you got to turn the lights off for yourself.

And in this hypothetical world, you have to take everything with you. So no 1 has access to this book, our conversation, any piece of content that's ever been out. Anything you create from this moment moving forward, it has to go with you when you leave. But on the last day, you get to leave behind 3 lessons to the world. 3 things you know to be true and that's all you would be able to be able to leave behind to everyone else.

What would be those 3 truths for you?

To believe in yourself. My dad said said something and, it's it's from the Bible but he misquoted it but I and it's a quote that I use in this book too. And, he misquoted it but I like his version better. And it's, if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will complete you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will destroy you.

Wow.

And, I love that. I love that. It's essentially being authentic to whatever it is inside. And the other 1, the third 1, I will use the most polite language that I can. Just don't be an Just be nice to people.

Be good to 1 another, you know? I think that's what we need in this world more than anything. And if you want an outlet for people not being good to each other, watch wrestling. Watch wrestling where they're not being nice to each other, but it's agreed upon.

It's contained. It's contained. Yeah. Yeah.

It's contained and it's controlled. Because I think I think more than ever, especially in a world where negativity is a hot commodity, where the algorithm loves it, it is more important where we thought that we left the bullies in the school yard, but we don't. They're online every day. They're constantly telling you. They're constantly chirping in their opinions.

I think we need more than ever just to be good to 1 another.

That's beautiful.

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