Transcript of How To Set EFFECTIVE Boundaries Without Sabotaging Your Relationships

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This is what I think people don't understand is you were extremely successful before these last couple years of healing, of therapy and creating boundaries. You didn't have certain boundaries but you had this massive, you know, number one New York Times bestselling book and you know, this massive audience. You were extremely successful so you can still function and be successful but there was. You didn't have boundaries and you hadn't processed a lot right.

Yeah, well, by the time I wrote my books I was pretty decent at boundaries. Especially around. Yes, especially around my entrepreneur because I figured out soon super fast when I quit my full time job.

But in your personal life.

No, not as much.

That's what I'm saying. You didn't have the boundaries in your personal.

Not as much. I had some in some areas right around my drug addiction and recovery. Really solid boundaries. But no, not relationships. Yeah, relationships. Especially with like, you know, family, parents.

And you were still able to be successful. Yes, in society's terms with getting results.

Yeah.

Which I think people can see that and be like, oh, she's got it all figured out.

Yeah.

And you were able to function at a high level and accomplish a lot, but there's still stuff Inside of you that you were working through.

Yeah, right, Definitely.

And that's why I asked you the question. You what I think. What do you think is available on the other side when you open the box at the right time for you? I'm not trying to have you open it up in this week or something.

Yeah.

When the time works for you, which you said may never be the right timing. What is available on the other side?

It's freedom.

Yeah.

It's literally freedom. What is available on the other side is freedom. And that's really at the heart of my boundary practice. I think so many people think that boundaries are about pushing people away or holding them at a distance or that they're controlling or manipulative. Boundaries are a gift in your relationship. Even in a relationship in which you are so close and so open and so vulnerable, like with my husband, we still have boundaries that are healthy for both of us. And so on the other side of, like, opening this box and exploring it will simply come a new set of boundaries. And hopefully those boundaries have continued to expand our relationship, and they continue to allow me to show up in a way that still feels good to me and safe to me. And then as that relationship progresses, hopefully I can back those boundaries off. Because showing up all the time or most of the time feels good and safe. That's what's on the other side of it. It's really freedom.

Yeah. I think it's creating the freedom, and it's not saying, okay, you can walk all over me and do whatever you want now with friends or family or intimate loved ones. It's creating new boundaries in that space of freedom.

Correct. Exactly.

You might still put people at a distance, but you feel like you have freedom from that relationship or from the past. Right?

Yeah. And it's not even distancing. Right. What? It's essential. I'm not distancing myself from my husband or from my son. When I set a boundary, what I am saying is I have this need. I have this feeling that I'm taking responsibility for, and here is that limit, because you're not a mind reader, and I shouldn't expect you to know it. And if you can meet me in this limit, then what you get is, like, a happier mom, a more patient mom, a more loving wife, a more, you know, romantic wife, somebody who can show up as her fullest self. Because I just had this, like, one small thing that I've asked you to do that you've said you're willing to do for the good of our relationship. And for my own health and safety. Yeah.

Freedom. How free do you feel on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being ultimate freedom in these relationships that maybe you haven't opened the box yet?

I mean, I still would say like a nine.

Wow.

I do. And I think it's because I recognize that I am in control of how I choose to respond to these situations. Right. So I can't control what my mom does or says or whether she goes to therapy. I can't always control the way my husband shows up or my sister or my colleagues at work, but I can always control how I respond to those things. And that sense of empowerment, I think that comes from boundaries that come from my recovery practice, that come from therapy, that comes from my movement practice. Like, all of these things that require me to check in with myself and ask myself what I need and then realize that I have the power to act on that. Those are the things that bring me real freedom.

You and I have both been in relationships that we weren't in full alignment with the other, with our partners in the past. What do you think are the boundaries that people fail to set the most in these relationships that don't work and that continue not to work over time? What do we fail to set once we realize there's massive breakdowns?

Yeah, I mean, I think. And this is the real challenge is that when you're in a relationship breakdown or things aren't going well. And I hear stories like this from thousands of people all the time, right? Where it's like, I the. In heterosexual relationships, the wife is doing all of the household management and all of the child care, and the, you know, expectations are only placed on her. And it's like she is the default for everything. And she has to ask her husband to help and pitch in and babysit his own kids. And she comes to me and says, like, I don't know what to do in this situation. The challenging thing is that at that point, you can't solve that with a simple boundary. Right. The boundary has to be like, I am going to go to therapy myself to explore what my options are. Because at this point, the way this relationship is working is not working for me.

Right.

But if we go back to, like, some of the things we've talked about even earlier on in a relationship, I think setting a boundary, like, right away in a relationship, immediately, even before you start dating, can be a super good litmus test for how well you can communicate. So it's like we're talking about going on a first date, and it's like, oh, by the way, I don't drink, so I'd love to meet you for happy hour. I'll just have like a tea and see if there's pressure, see if that is weird. See if they give you like pushback on that or you can talk about, you know, before you get intimate. Like, by the way, you know, this is what I said to my husband. Like, by the way, you're wearing a condom and until we both get STD tested and like swap tests, that's going to continue. And like, if that isn't respected, that's an immediate relationship ender for me. Like, that's it. Right? So I think it can be helpful early on to set boundaries in relationships just to see how you discuss them, how you each view them. Do they see it as selfish and if so, can you have that conversation?

Do they push back? How do they handle when you navigate that pushback? I think that can be really important.

What about with children? You know, as a parent, I don't have kids yet, so I can't relate to that. I can relate to my experience as a kid being obnoxious to my parents and probably driving them crazy and understanding that it's challenging for parents. How do healthy, conscious parents create healthy boundaries with kids without neglecting their kids emotions, feelings and needs?

Yeah, I think the two are definitely not mutually exclusive. So I think the first thing that you can do as parents is model healthy boundaries for your kids. So it is me, you know, saying to my husband, like, hey, I need a half an hour of alone time. I'm going to go to my room. I'll come back out, you know, after I'm feeling a little bit more refreshed. Like when my son watches us do that, he recognizes that, like in this family it's okay to say no, that people don't get mad when you say no, that mom's taking responsibility for her own feelings. So we've been modeling healthy boundaries. But I've had boundaries with my son from the very earliest age and I have set boundaries on his behalf. So one of the earliest boundaries I set with him or for him was when you visit grandma or grandpa or Nana and Pop Pop and or Auntie Kelly and you don't see them very often. You don't have to hug or kiss if you don't want to. We have to be polite and say goodbye and say thank you. But you can hug, you can kiss, you can wave, you can fist bump, you can make a funny face, you can, you know, high five, whatever you want.

But you don't have to hug or kiss if you don't want to. And so we had this, like, issue once with my mom where she was like, I really want to hug. Like, I haven't seen him in such a long time. I only see him a few times a year. And I'm like, I get it, but he doesn't want to hug you, and, like, you need to respect that. And she did. And I recognized that it was disappointing for her. But also what I taught my son was that you have agency, and if you don't want to hug, you don't have to. And so now, you know, I'll come sit next to him on the couch when he's nine, and I'll be like, hey, do you want to watch naked and afraid and, like, do a little snuggle? And he'll be like, I'd love to watch the show, but I don't want to snuggle. That's fine. Yeah, that's good.

Wow.

So we've raised him in the culture of boundaries, and he feels now comfortable setting boundaries with me. And he, you know, boundaries really create a sense of safety for kids. They do, because they, you know, realize that the adults in their household are taking responsibility for their own feelings, that boundaries are not about pushing other people away. They're about, you know, creating that sense of, like, family in a way that works for everybody. And I think they feel really safe to my kid.

And what are the biggest boundaries you've had to create for yourself? Healthy boundaries for you individually, separate from family and loved ones.

And zillions. I think boundaries with yourself are so incredibly powerful because they only rely on one person to hold them. And you can immediately reclaim your time, your energy, your capacity, your mental health, your physical space and sense of safety. Like, that's an immediate benefit from you setting one boundary with yourself. The challenging thing is that if you don't keep that boundary, like, what's going to happen, right? If you say to yourself, I'm not going to check my phone in the morning before I do my morning routine, which is one of my most beloved boundaries and the one that I've set for many, many years and the one that I still hold to if I do roll over and check my phone before I go to the gym and do my meditation, like, nobody's going to jump out of the closet and slap the phone out of my hand. So.

But you're going to know.

I will know. And what's going to happen is that there will be a massive ripple Effect to future Melissa, Really? I think about future me all the time.

Tell me more.

What is the decision that I'm making right now and how is it going to impact future Melissa? Because current Melissa is going to be so happy to just like, stay up late and not start her bedtime routine and just do like one more, you know, show on Netflix. But what will this mean for future Melissa? She's going to be really mad at herself because she didn't get to bed on time. And then she's going to fall asleep late, and then she's probably not going to have as good a night's sleep. And then when she wakes up tomorrow, she's not going to be pumped for the gym and she might even skip it because she's going to be tired if she skips the, the gym before she does this interview. She was. She's like, not going to be a good guest because she won't feel grounded and centered. Like, when I play it out that way, it makes it a lot easier for me to be like, go to bed. Because future Melissa will benefit. So I have boundaries with myself where I'm not checking my phone in the morning before I do my morning routine, not checking my phone in, like the half hour before bedtime, so I'm not checking Twitter one more time or email one more time.

I have really strong boundaries. Like when I'm out of office, I am out of office. Unless something is on fire, you do not call or text me. And I will not be checking text messages, messages or emails. So, you know, I think I set boundaries with myself pretty often because I know that they can be like an instant sense. They can give me an instant sense of freedom and nobody else has to even worry about it.

What's the boundary you set in the last two years for yourself that has given you the most benefit?

I think I've become more rigorous about what I say yes to in terms of work opportunities.

It's good.

It's hard as an entrepreneur not to feel like you have to or should say yes to everything. And like, if I don't say yes to this, maybe they won't ask me again. Or who knows what this, like lunch or coffee could turn into. But I think, I don't know if we talked about this, but like four years ago I got a concussion. I'm still going through post concussion symptoms that are triggered by air travel. Events like this, speaking events in person, events like any kind of stressor can set my concussion symptoms off. And that forced me to become more rigorous right about what I say yes to. So now again, I kind of have this auto, like automatic pause before I say yes to anything. Even something that I think I'm super excited about. It's like quick pause. Can you work this into your schedule? Will you have capacity to do this? What else is this going to push off your plate and is that acceptable to you? What are the things you're going to have to make up when you get back home? And then once I think about that, I either say yes or no.

And if I say no, it's because again, I know I'm serving future me. I can be disappointed, but I can also be happy that I've checked in with my own needs. So that I think I've really dialed in on the last couple years. And I think it's made a big difference in my overall capacity.

Wow.

Yeah.

What boundary are you to set for yourself next year that you haven't done yet?

I don't know. I'm not a New Year's resolution person. I tend to just take on these like self improvement things as I stumble as I cough. Yeah. Like I started my cold shower experiment like in February two years ago, just randomly. So I'm not a New Year's resolution person. And there is no one size fits all for boundaries. I won't know what my needs are next year until I get to next year. And I'm in the moment and I go, you know, my context has changed, my capacity has changed, my goals have changed. Do I still. I'm always reevaluating my boundary. Do I still need a boundary here? And if so, is this the boundary that I need? Because they should be flexible and I shouldn't keep a limit in place that no longer serves me.

Yeah.

So I don't know. Ask me next year.

What do you see? Since you've been working through this book for a while now, you've heard a lot of conversations from people single in relationships, family challenges, different things. What do you see that society needs in general to create better and healthier boundaries around?

Welcome to my favorite TED Talk.

It's just with social media, with work, with, you know, all the political stuff, just what, what do people need in general moving into next year, you think?

I mean, we need honestly so much of the root of why boundaries feels like such an icky subject to so many people. And I'm, I will say especially women, especially moms, is because we have been conditioned by the patriarchy and stereotypically rigid gender roles and toxic masculinity which comes from the patriarchy and religious influences and diet, culture and trauma and the media. We have been conditioned for my entire life and even going back further than that, to not have needs, to not have needs, to be selfless. Especially as a mom, we are praised the most when we are putting everyone else's needs and feelings and wants and desires above our own. Like we're not even on our own list. And if we're on the list, we're at the very bottom. And then when we do have a need and we speak it, we either hint about it because we've been told we can't be direct and then we're disappointed that people aren't reading our minds, or we're direct about it and we're told that we're selfish or we're called a or any of those other monikers. So we have been conditioned to not have boundaries societally.

And I think there's a lot of unlearning that we all have to do around what it means to have needs and to have those needs feel worthy. And the fact that like you, of, you know, your own volition are valuable enough to advocate for those needs and then to remember that we have the power to advocate for those needs in a way that doesn't involve the other person. If I set a boundary with you, it can't be dependent on what you choose to do. The boundary I set has to depend on me, the actions that I am willing to take in our relationship to keep myself safe and healthy.

Give me an example around that.

We're in an argument and it starts to get really, really heated and I say to you, please don't speak to me like that. It's really making me feel unsafe. I don't like it when you use those words. It's getting personal and we're not focusing on the subject at hand. And you are really mad and really triggered and you kind of keep going with that, right? I can't depend on you to change your communication style. The only thing I can do is say, I won't stay in this argument if this is how we're going to continue to talk about it. I'm going to take a 10 minute break. After 10 minutes, I'll come back to see if you're ready. So I can't depend on you. If I go to my family's house and they're talking about politics and we don't agree with politics, I can say, could we change the subject, please? And if they say no, then I have to enact my boundary, which is okay. I'm going to go for a walk.

Yeah. Remove yourself.

I'm going to leave the table. Yeah. So all of that to say we have a lot of unlearning to do about what it means to have needs and to advocate for those needs and to speak clearly and what that means as a woman to speak clearly and directly versus what Historically it's meant for a man to speak clearly and directly. Right. A man says it and he's decisive. A woman says it and she's aggressive. There's a lot of unlearning that we all have to do, I think before we can get to the point where we don't automatically think of boundaries as selfish or controlling or manipulative.

What I'm hearing you say is the boundary doesn't rely on another person's reaction. It relies. Or if they agree to it or not, it relies on you.

Yes.

Removing yourself in a conscious way from the situation.

Yes.

Independent of how they show up.

Correct. Now, I'm initially going to phrase most of my boundaries as a request.

Yes.

Right. Because you didn't know I had a limit. So I'm going to say to you, hey, I need, I could use a half hour of alone time. Would you mind if I go in my room or, you know, would you mind taking the dog for a walk or something? Right. And if you say no, then my boundary is to remove myself. So I think that's another common misconception, is that, you know, boundaries aren't about telling other people what to do or controlling other people. I may phrase my request in that way as an invitation to meet me in my limit, but I always have a backup plan. This is what I'm going to do.

Yeah. It sounds like you're using emotional intelligence language, which is, you know, I have a request. This is my request. Will you honor this request?

Yes.

As opposed to screaming at someone like, you're crossing my boundary. You know, they didn't even know what the boundary was.

Yes. I have this.

Making a request first and seeing if people will honor, respect it or renegotiate it in some way. If you want to accept that or not, you know, it all kind of depends.

Yes. I have this like green, yellow, red boundary framework that I've been using since the earliest days of my recovery where I evaluate sort of the level of threat that the boundary crossing has on our relationship. And I've got these three different levels of boundary communication. So if your mother in law shows up on your porch uninvited and you know, you really want her to call before you come over. But you've never said that before. I don't want you to, like, open the door and go like, barbara, you're not welcome without calling first and slam the door. That's like a red level boundary. We don't need to start there. The green is, hey, would you please call before you come over and give us at least an hour's notice? That would be really helpful, thanks. That's your green, right? You're going in with a request, you're inviting her. Immediate chances are she's going to go, yeah, that's fine. Now, if she shows up on your door again after you've expressed that limit and it's not some kind of emergency, you're free to open the door and say, oh, Barbara, you didn't call and it's not a good time.

Would you like to come back and visit this weekend or should I just call you later on tonight? Right, that's you holding your boundary.

Sure.

Yeah.

And then red is what?

Red is you don't answer the door because you've asked now several times for her to call before she comes by. And we're not an unreasonable request. And so the answer is, like, you are not entitled to my time and home and space and family anytime you please. That does not feel unreasonable to me.

Yeah, especially if they've said yes, I honor your request and I will do this if they've committed it. And then if they say no, then you just say, okay, well, I'm not gonna open the door. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Depending on how I feel.

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Sometimes you have to, like, live in the yellow. So this is really common with conversations around, like, diet, body weight. If it's like, really ingrained in your family to talk about how much weight you've lost or whether or not this person has lost weight or how many calories you're consuming. And these conversations tend to happen, like, around food that can be really uncomfortable and triggering for some people. So you may say, hey, I would prefer not to participate in conversations where we're talking about my body, your body, anyone's body, calories. Can we just not talk about that? And they say, yes. And then they bring it up at the table because it's very common, like family culture. You might have to use that yellow limit and remind them, hey, we agreed not to talk about this. If you can't change the subject, I'm going to excuse myself from the table. You may have to live in the yellow for a while if you're trying to re kind of change family patterns. But if they agree in the moment, they say, oh, yeah, you're right, I forgot, then that's a win. And when you do that, when you continue to remind them, eventually.

Right. They're going to remember, they're going to remind themselves. And that's how you change entire family.

Yeah. And people may agree to something and then forget. You know, it might take a couple times and be like, that's my bad. You're right.

Yeah, sure.

How does someone create a better boundary around food? And where is the. Why do people cross the boundary of consuming way more than they actually need for their bodies so frequently?

Yeah, I feel like that's not an area where I have enough credentials or experience to talk about because there are so many factors involved in people's eating habits. Right. There's physiological factors, there's stress factors, there's emotional factors. There's the impact of the kind of food that we're eating and the foods that are being marketed to us. I think there are a lot of reasons. And boundaries around food are tricky because you never want a boundary to feel punitive. So do I have boundaries around food? Kind of, I guess in that I don't eat foods that I know don't work for my body, but that's not like all the time.

Sure.

I don't eat gluten almost ever on a regular basis because I know it really messes with my digestion and my skin and my mood. But when my mom bakes her chocolate chip walnut cake, 100% of the time I'm like, yeah, I'm on it.

Sure.

So I think what I'm saying here is that my boundary isn't necessarily specific to like a food or drink. What my boundary is is I'm not going to automatically say yes or no until I check in with myself and ask myself, is it worth it? Do I want it? What's the context, how I'm feeling? So maybe the boundary is like, I just don't have an automatic yes or no. It's the very first question I ask is reflective.

You know, when humans don't express their feelings in a healthy way, don't have a safe space to express them, men, women, whoever, bad things happen.

Yeah.

That's why I think we see a lot of pain and suffering in the world and a lot of war and dis ease that's happening caused by a lot of men because they don't have the space to share. And that's why I think it's so important. You're talking about boundaries, talking about healing, talking about creating a healthy boundary with yourself, opening up, expressing yourself. And I think I hope more people hear this message, men and women and every human hears this message about opening up their feelings. And it can be journaling. It doesn't have to be expressing it to social media every day. It can be journaling, talking to a therapist, talking to a friend. It can look different for everyone.

It should. Yeah, it can and it should. And I think again, boundaries are a great way to start that opening up because you don't want to vomit every feeling you've ever had in a space that might not be safe for you. So you can set limits with different people, with social media groups, with whatever that looks like, to be able to start sharing in a way that does feel safe and then hopefully expand those limits as you gain confidence with sharing your feelings and as you're affirmed. Because you're sharing with the right people.

Right?

Yeah.

So you said you with drugs and alcohol addiction, right?

For not alcohol. I never drank.

Drug addiction?

Yeah, just a lot of drugs.

Do you think if you would have expressed your feelings more regularly, you would do less drugs at that time?

I would never have started doing drugs.

Really.

The only reason I started doing drugs was because at 16, I was sexually assaulted. I didn't tell anyone for a year. When I did tell my family they didn't handle it well. And they said, we can't tell anyone. We need to keep it quiet or it will hurt the family. And I felt like I had no outlet whatsoever. They put me in therapy, but, like, I didn't. I didn't want to talk about it.

But you couldn't talk about it to your family?

I couldn't talk about it to my family. I had internalized the message that obviously it was my fault. Obviously I had done something wrong. And so I began looking for things to numb that experience and to numb these feelings that I had been shoving down. I tried controlling my eating. That didn't work. I tried drinking. That didn't work. And then I found drugs. And I was like, this is it. Here we are.

It made you feel better?

Yeah.

It was a coping mechanism away.

Right.

It was the first thing that took me as far away from myself as I wanted to be. And then I spent five years doing it.

Wow.

Yeah.

So how did you start to shift out of that? Was it talking about your feelings? More like, when did it. The process change to a different coping mechanism?

Well, I mean, it started when I went into rehab twice. I went in twice. Right. The second time, it really stuck. And I decided I was going to really change every aspect of my life and really become this healthy person with healthy habits. That was really the first time I ever set boundaries around my addiction and my recovery. And I think that's what changed it for me. That's why I didn't have a second relapse. But then it was just a process, so I started exercising, and I certainly exercised to an unhealthy degree, but then that modulated itself. And then I started eating healthier and did my first whole 30 and was like, oh, wow, the way you're using food is not super healthy. And, you know, then I went back to therapy and started talking about more things, but not all the things. And I went through my divorce and really started talking about all the things. So it's been like, a process for sure. Wow. Yeah. And I'm sure, you know, I'll talk to you two or three years from now and be like, oh, since we've talked, I've done, like, X, Y, and Z.

And here are the other things I've done.

But what's the thing you're most proud of? Me.

I'm like, a way better mom than I ever thought I would be. I'm a really good mom. I have a well of patience for my child that nobody in my life, myself included, knew existed And I have a sense of love for him that I've never before experienced and, like, never will again. I'm a way better mom than I thought I would be, and I'm really proud of that.

That's beautiful. That's really cool.

I love my kiddo.

That's really cool. Just wait till he's a teenager, right?

Yeah, he's nine. He's in a nice little sweet spot now.

How do you learn to let go of a relationship or relationships with people that don't respect your boundaries?

So this is the thing. If your boundary is you telling other people what you are willing to do to keep yourself safe and healthy, that doesn't always mean that the outcome is, like, desirable. If you're talking about boundaries at work and they won't respect them, are you willing to transfer departments, go to hr, look for a new job. If it's boundaries with a family member, and they will not respect them to the point where it is seriously harming your relationship, your physical health, your mental health. Are you willing to cut that person off? Are you willing to take a break from them or seriously limit the way that you choose to engage with them? We will communicate only via email and text at this point, not in person, not on the phone. You have actions that you are able to take, but that doesn't mean that those actions are always easy or always your desired outcome. And then what you have to ask yourself is, how willing am I to let this person continue to harm me for the sake of preserving this relationship? And, like, what would that look like? What does it look like?

And are there limits that I can set in between letting them run me over exactly the way they are and cutting off the relationship altogether? Because there are a lot of things I think that you could do in between to preserve the relationship in a way that works for you. You just have to be willing to, like, find it and then ultimately hold it for yourself.

Yeah. Oh, man.

I know it's not easy, but I don't. I don't want to be in a relationship that makes me feel like crap every time I show up or that doesn't allow me to be my fullest self or that, like, hurts me every time I'm there.

It's not worth it.

I don't think that it is. And I can't make that decision for anybody else. If you say, like, no, I. She's my mom and I want to maintain a relationship with my mom and, like, she's family and I'm going to, then, like, that's Your decision. But I want you to go into it eyes open. Yeah.

And I think there's. Listen, I think there's. I used to get really annoyed with my mom. Right. I think because I'm the youngest of four and I used to feel like she always treated me like a baby. Even today, it's like I'm doing so much for, you know, her and different things, but she still treats me a certain way. Sometimes it's like, okay, mom, don't do this. It's like this a little annoyance. Right. And it wasn't until a few years ago where I said, you know what? I'm just gonna accept her for it.

Yeah.

I may not like it, I may not enjoy it, but how can I change my response and my feeling towards it? How can I tell a different story to myself about how my mom shows up? Is it the worst, worst thing in the world? Is it, like, ruining my day? No, it's an annoyance that I grew up with this feeling.

Yeah.

And if I want to have a deeper, healthier relationship with my mom. Right. As she continues to get older, I want to. I want her in my life. I don't want to distance myself because some things she says or does annoys me every now and then.

Yes.

It's not like she's trying to ruin my life.

Right.

It's just her way of being.

Yeah.

And I can have communicated what I don't like, and it's still happening. It's like, okay, then do I want her in my life? Yes. Is she going to be this way? Yes. Okay. Do I get to love and accept her for who she is and shift the narrative within me and have more patience, like you said, and learn how to deal with it? Yeah, absolutely. If that's the relationship I want. And since doing that the last couple years, like, it doesn't annoy me as much anymore.

Yeah.

I'm kind of like, okay, I just kind of laugh it off. As opposed to get frustrated.

Yes.

Because I chose to be different around the situation. So there are nuances to it as well.

I think there absolutely are. And this is why there's no one size fits all boundary scenario. Because what might feel like an annoyance to you might be really harmful to somebody else. What one family is like, oh, my gosh, how could you interact like that as a family? That wouldn't work for us as somebody else's.

Absolutely.

Drop over whenever you want. You don't even have to knock.

Right.

There is no one size.

The door is always open.

Yeah, absolutely. Stay anytime you want But I do like this idea of asking myself, like, what is the story I'm telling myself about this? And, like, is there some examination of that that I could do on my end?

Can I be more flexible or more accepting?

Sure.

Unless it's some extreme thing where you don't feel safe, then create the boundary.

Yes.

Right. You need space. You need. Okay, cool. But if your mom's just being annoying every now and then, like, okay, just love her and accept her and just move on.

I think so.

Well, the book you have, the Book of Boundaries, is a game changer. It's about setting the limits that will set you free. And I think the thing that most people want is freedom. You talked about it. It's something I wanted my entire life that I struggled with. I didn't feel free internally. And the process of creating agreements with myself, creating agreements with others and healing and integrating that healing process throughout life is what has allowed me to be more and more free every day. And so if you guys are looking for freedom, make sure you get a copy of this book. You can go to melissa.com. it'll have the book there. You can get it there. It's on Amazon as well. The Book of Boundaries or anywhere else you guys get books. How else can we be of service and support to you today, Melissa?

I like that you asked that question. Thank you. This conversation was everything. I always love coming in here to talk to you, and I always feel like you get me to share more than I thought I was going to, but in, like, a really safe and authentic way. So I appreciate that. I always enjoy our talks. Thank you.

Of course. Of course. I want to acknowledge you, Melissa, for taking on this challenge of talking about this, because I think. I think you're similar to me in some ways that I write the books that I need.

Yeah. Yes.

Right. Whole 30 was for you.

Yes.

The Book of Boundaries is for you. Right. You're like, I didn't have any boundaries. Let me learn this process and then write about my findings and how it's helped me.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I do the interviews that I need. Right. It's like the things that I do as well. So I want to acknowledge you for taking. Having the courage to take on this topic, create boundaries in a healthy way in your life and all your relationships, because it can be very challenging if you've lived a majority of your life without them having to shift into becoming the person who creates healthy agreements and boundaries in your life with yourself and with others. So I acknowledge you for taking this on and for sharing this wisdom with so many people that could use this book. You mentioned this how, you know, people call you Fluffy. Do you think that supports your success but holds you back in other ways, or do you feel like that is an empowering thing for you with your identity and where you want to be?

There are so many more pros than there are cons. The cons are. Are very small. They're very small. No, man, let me tell you, when people. When you get recognized, you know, I have other friends that, you know other comics, and I know a lot of people that are. That are famous. And I don't know, man, I get. I don't want to say that mine is better, but for some reason, when I get recognized, it's. I'm not seeing, like. Like, oh, it's jiggler, swit kind of a thing. You know, the recognition I get from people, the look is almost like, hey, man, this guy's like. It's like seeing a family member you haven't seen in a long time. And I feel. I feel that from people. When I. When I get recognized, it's not. It's very different. I see how other people get recognized, and I'm like, wow, okay. With. With me, it's a lot. It's a lot different. I get people right away that are like. Like, the glow and the energy is very. It's like. It feels like family. It like. Like a moment, like a real sweet, sweet thing. And I love that.

It's. It's. It tells me that what I'm doing is making a difference, what I'm doing, because I get a lot of people also that will open up, you know, hey, man, I was going through this, and I was watching, and, hey, man, just so you know, you. I've heard you've helped me get through so many times, and it's. That's an incredible feeling, and that's a game changer. So when I hear something like that, it changes, though. Whatever mood I'm in, it corrects it. I'm like, you know what? Stop. Stop thinking like that. You know, whatever you're dealing with is nothing. This dude is like. He just, you know, put things into perspective.

Sure.

So being Fluffy is. Is very much a. It's a good thing.

A lot of pros to it.

Yeah, a lot of pros. Do I wish I could vent about certain things? Of course I do. But I think that it's. It's part of the deal. You have to sacrifice. This is part of the sacrifice to.

Be where I'M at you mentioned some people will just say, hey, Fluffy on the streets or whatever. And they'd be like, oh, it's Gabriel Iglesias. You know, who is Fluffy versus who is Gabriel in your mind?

They're. They're pretty much like this. But, you know, Gabriel does have bad days.

Really? Fluffy can't have bad days.

He's not supposed to. And if I do, I try to find a way to push it into the show. Like, for example, in my. In my show right now without giving too much away, because I have a new special coming out. One of the things I'm talking about is. I'm talking about things that happened to me that weren't great, weren't fun, weren't awesome. I'm starting to incorporate more of, you know, after so many years, and now I'm almost. I'm coming up on 50 pretty soon.

Wow.

You know, there's more things that have happened. For example, I'm talking about the fact that I almost died in a plane crash that made the news.

Wow.

I'm talking about the fact that they broke into my house. You know, someone broke into my house and went through my things and just, you know, a bad situation. I'm talking about that I reunited with my father, who I haven't seen in 15 years, and how awkward that was. And so there's. There's now moments where I'm like, okay, you know, so it's not all like, hey, rainbows and unicorns type of thing. It's like, okay, you know, so the challenge now is making those situations funny. Near death. How can you make that funny? That's, you know, that's a challenge.

Wow.

But I am. I am talking more about things that aren't as fun and pleasant.

What do you think has been the darkest or most miserable moments you've had?

You know, I think that feeling confused is something that definitely is painful. Not knowing, living in a. In a gray area of confusion, not being able to have clarity and understanding, especially in relationships, not knowing where you stand. And a lot of times I think we're the ones responsible for that because we allow certain behavior to continue because we're trying to keep certain people in our lives. And unfortunately, some people should not be in our lives. And that is a hard pill to swallow as well, because as much as whether it's friends, family, or business acquaintances, some people do not belong in your life. And the sooner you can get them out, the better you're going to be. And unfortunately, there was times when I didn't just have days or months or a year. I've, I've allowed situations to go on for a very long time because I didn't want to be the bad guy to pull the plug really. And so I took on the pain and the frustration and the issues because I didn't want to be the bad person who, who said, let me hit the stop button because I didn't want to be that person.

But at the same time I wasn't doing myself any favors by not stopping or correcting certain things that were happening.

Yeah, I can relate to that because I've been in, I'm a slow learner sometimes and I have to go through a lot of pain in order to learn lessons. And I had many long term relationships, intimate relationships that I should have been out of much years before I got out of them and dealt with a lot of pain by trying to people please, by trying to change myself to keep someone happy that was just never going to be happy with me. And so I can relate to that feeling.

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When, when did you feel like you learned that lesson or what, what shifted inside of you that allowed you to say, okay, I can no longer be this way anymore with this person or these people in my life.

I'm still learning. And it's, it's one of those things where maybe this period of time was, was good and helpful and it, and it allowed growth and joy and happiness. But then maybe, you know, letting it go this long just kind of like, like it, it's now it's going down and now it's going in the opposite direction. So I'm still learning and I'm still adjusting. And the people that I've started with are not the people that are, you know, always the ones. The ones you start with are not always the ones you end with. And fortunately there have been many people that are still in my life that, that I've been on this quest with for so many years. For example, like my team, the team of people that I have, I still have the same manager and agent that I've had for, God, like 20 years.

Wow.

You know, and it's, it's awesome. And the fact that we've all grown together has been on the same promoter as well.

Wow.

So I've. I've been very. In a business of show business. You're always jumping around. It's always go, go this way, this way, whatever works. And, you know, it's very cutthroat. So the fact that I've been able to maintain and have this same group of people, it's. It's huge because the trust is there. And going back to that whole thing of having the wrong person in place, I had people in place that was. That were making me question, are these the best people for me?

Interesting.

And I feel like loyalty is one of the strongest, biggest things that people take for granted because they're thinking about the money, they're thinking about this or that. But loyalty is so huge. Being able to trust someone is so huge. And I think that a lot of people just kind of go, eh, you know, whatever. And like, oh. And that's why for me to let people go is really, really hard, because I'm like, am I going to make a mistake? Am I going to regret this? You know what's going to happen? And so sometimes I will overthink. But being able to trust somebody and being able to have the right people in your corner is really huge, and it is a big key to happiness and joy and peace.

Wow. That's powerful, man. I love that you talked about therapy, and I know you've talked about this in different interviews. I speak about it a lot on this show. Just my journey of healing and therapy and lessons I've learned and mistakes I've made. And I feel like it's been so beneficial to creating more clarity and peace inside of me by having a place to talk about challenges, pains, frustrations, upsets, things like that. What would you say are the three most powerful things you've learned through the therapy that you've done?

Again, being able to question myself. I know I'm not always right, and I will never claim to always be right. And that's one thing that I had to learn by going that, you know what? Just because you're popular, just because people like you, doesn't mean you're always right. And I was writing that for a minute, and I had to come with the reality that, you know what, dude? No, you're not. You're not always right. And, you know, that's a. That's a tough one to swallow right there.

Especially when you're selling out arenas and people are laughing at everything you say.

It's hard to. Yeah. It's hard to admit that. Yeah. Because when you're doing all these great things. Like, are you kidding? You're in magazines, you're in the top Forbes, you know, maker of the year type of thing. You're. You're selling out stadiums, you're doing all kinds of crazy. You know, you got a freaking car collection that, you know that Jay Leno is like, wow, like, you're doing all these amazing things. So to be able to. To feel like, really, I'm wrong, you know, that's. It's hard. It took me a minute to really. To get that. But, yeah, I admit it all the time now, man. That was stupid. I shouldn't have done that. So, yeah, I definitely feel like that that was huge, being able to learn that, because I feel like I did need to learn and nobody would tell me, really. That's another thing. Once you're at a certain place where the wheels are moving really well and money is, Is good at keeping people, hey, let's keep this going here. You know, don't nobody tell them anything. Don't. Don't ruffle feathers. Don't upset them. Because if we, we mess this up, you know, so who's gonna tell me I'm wrong?

And that's a tough one. I had to figure that one out. Nobody said you're wrong because they're not. None of this. We're not going to mess any of this up.

Right. We don't want to stop the money.

Machine that's coming in right now and everything that's happening. So. Yeah. But I can be wrong in business, I can be wrong in relationships, and I've been wrong in both.

Yeah.

I've made decisions where I'm like, oh, okay, maybe that didn't work out. Right.

Right. I've had a number of different, I guess, inner painful challenges in my life, especially my 20s and 30s from previous relationships I was in that were not in the right alignment. Nothing wrong with them. I choose poorly. And I stayed in those things too long. Right. And I remember just feeling a lot of pain and sadness when I was in those relationships and the aftermath of the breakup and the pain and sadness there, all that different stuff. And I remember I was going through a breakup one time about, I don't know, five years ago, and I was feeling one of those painful moments, and I had a guest on who I was telling him about what I was going through, and he told me, a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul. And he said, think about all the past experiences you've had where you've had pain, and maybe you Wouldn't wish that anyone would go through them, and you didn't wish you had to go through them. But you also know you wouldn't take those things back because of what you learned through them. You just mentioned this, right?

The lesson that they gave you peace. You have clarity now. It's like feeling that misery. Now you can have peace because you know what that felt like. And so I started to travel in time in the future. Since that moment about five years ago when I've gone through challenging moments to think, how is this happening in my benefit for my future self? How is this painful moment, this season of life, going to benefit me in the future? And that's really helped me navigate these kind of painful moments easier, knowing that everything in the past that I've been through, although it was hard and I didn't like it, I'm using it for my benefit now today. And it makes these other moments of beauty that much more beautiful. So it sounds like you've been doing that also.

Oh, yeah.

Which is really cool to see. If you can go into the future and see yourself 30, 40 years in the future, what advice would you give yourself now? If you are in that future, 30, 40 years ahead, and you're reflecting back on everything you've created now, and you can speak to your current self, what would you say?

Stop drinking, start eating better. Start working out, and start enjoying the fruits of your labor.

Wow.

Stop saving all that money for who? Start enjoying life. Start taking some breaks, start taking some trips, start having some fun.

What's it going to take for you to do those things? Like, what's it actually going to take for you to do that, though, and not just another year go by?

Yeah.

Well, I should start doing more of these things that my future self is telling me. What do you think it's going to take?

What's it going to take? I don't know what it's going to take, but I'm saying it out loud. And that's not something I've done before, really. You know, I've not said this out loud back to back to back. So, you know, if it does happen, then consider this the first step, the saying it out loud. That's great, you know, because I've acknowledged publicly this is the issue.

That's great, man. I want to see you follow through on all of what your future self tells you to do. I think that would be inspiring to watch. I got a few final questions for you. This has been really, really inspiring, Gabriel. I appreciate it. How can people best support and serve you. You give so much to the world. You give so much to your team, to your friends, to your community. How can people best support and serve.

You if they like what I do and I bring joy to their lives? Tell somebody. Let people know, hey, I'm only doing this because people still come to the shows. If people stop coming, then I stop doing this.

Wow.

So as long as people come out to the shows, and that's. That's going to keep me going. I got to a place where you want to talk about feeling. Not feeling good, not feeling positive about what I was doing. I talked about retiring. I talked about retiring because I wasn't sure that this was giving me what I needed. You know, I didn't. I wasn't feeling good. And it wasn't. It wasn't the stage that was hurting me. It was how I was feeling in just my everyday life. And I felt like a lot of it was coming from that, and it wasn't. It was just me not dealing with certain issues in my life. And I'm like, you know, what am I doing this for? I'm still on the road. It's been so many years. And I was reminded by my publicist yesterday, he goes, you know what?

You.

You kind of brought up the retirement thing a couple times. I go, yeah, you're right. I did. I did. I did. I said that because, you know, at this point, I'm like, what am I supposed to do? But I think that I'm clearly missing the fact that I do have a more of an impact than I thought I did on people's lives, and it helps more than it hurts. And I should continue to do this as long as I can.

Yeah.

I mean, and so the best way people could support me just keep coming out. There you go, you know, like, your prices are too expensive. Everybody else got more expensive tickets. Look online.

Exactly.

Look. Look online.

Why do you think so you mentioned you wanted to retire multiple times. That was that a season of life?

Yeah, well, especially right after Dodger Stadium, because that put me in a different place mentally. Because it's not every day you can say that you saw your peak.

You.

Know, and it's hard to argue that one because it's like, okay, this is the biggest. Is the biggest show that's ever happened and on the west coast that I know of.

Wow.

I don't know of any other show that's been that big for comedy.

How many people were there?

Almost 50,000.

Holy cow.

Yeah. So, you know, so how do you set a new Goal Interesting. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, what am I supposed to do now? You're on the other side of that. And it's like, oh, you know, you freaking jump. Jump the shark, man.

You're. You're.

You know, so, like, in a perfect world, like, if it was a movie, I looked at it like a movie, like, the best way would be to. To finish that night. And thank you. Here's the end of the career.

Wow.

You know, and it was literally, I want to say, April May, like, three weeks after my 25th anniversary of being a comic.

Holy cow.

So I like numbers like that. Oh. After 25 years, like, this is how biggest show ever done, but I still love it. But at the same time, again, you know, dealing, having certain situations in life and then trying to do this. That night, everything just fell into place. It felt so good. Best night of my life. Hands down, best night of my life. But then the next day, it's like, all right, now we're back to reality.

Really? Did you kind of have, like, a hangover? Emotional hangover?

I had an emotional and a physical one because I drank on stage that night. So I killed a bottle in front of. And what I thought was really cool is that everybody. Well, I didn't see anybody leave, but it felt like even after my show was over, I stayed on stage, and I just started telling random stories. I brought my friends out on stage, and we're drinking, and they're playing music. We had them playing Vicente Fernandez over and over, and we're taking shots and just drinking, and. Oh, God. I want to say that it was almost $200,000 for the fine for going over. Oh, yeah. When you rent out a stadium, you.

Got to be out.

Yeah, you got it. There's a cutoff time. We went way past that. And so, yeah, I got fined. Best fine I've ever paid. Yeah, well, you're willing to pay it again. You know, it's not every day you can say that this was hands down, no question, best night of my life. But then, you know, all right, now.

What if you were to take a year off, let's say not completely off, but maybe you pulled back on touring. Maybe you weren't doing a special. Maybe, you know, and I don't think anyone in your team wants me to even say this, but if you were just to pull back, what would you do with your time to take care of you?

That's an easy one. Covid. Covid kept me home for a year, and in that time that I Was home for a year. I started eating better. I didn't drink as much. Really. I probably didn't drink at all. And I started working out. So I probably lost 70 pounds that year.

Come on.

Yeah. Wow. Because I was able to be consistent. I wasn't on the road, so I was home. I was able to get into a routine. You know, my friend, personal trainer. We were hanging out all the time. So we just, like, we were hanging out, work out, walking, working out. Yeah. So it was just, you know, that whole year, I dropped. I dropped 70 pounds.

Wow.

Wow. And then as soon as we went back to work, gained back about 40 of that. So fortunately, I still kept a little bit of that, you know, progress off. But, yeah, I'm not where I was in 20. 20. 2020, when everybody was kind of.

Yeah.

Getting sick. I actually got. I actually got better.

Interesting, man. Well, I know you've.

So if I was to take a year off. And that's another reason, too. I says, well, you know, if I keep grinding it out there, all I'm doing on the road is making bad decisions. I'm drinking, I'm eating, I'm just. I'm not sleeping the way I should. I'm just. I'm. It's. It's taxing, you know, it's go, go, go, travel, travel, travel. You're just. It's. You're all over the place, and I'm not doing myself any good. And so that's another reason where I was like, oh, this isn't. You know, I should probably go away from this, you know, so that was one of the things about the retirement and then everything else that was happening.

Yeah, I mean. I mean, I'm not saying you retire because you bring so much joy to the world, but you could do stuff at home. You could work at home. You could, you know, do TV shows. You could do other things with a routine in your bed, you know, in your space with the right support around you and still work, maybe just a little less.

Oh, I know I could. And it's so much easier to make excuses. And the problem I have is I'm really, really good at making exceptions. Excuses.

Oh, I have to go do this tour or they need me, or, Oh.

I wish I could, but, you know. Yeah. And. And the problem is that I believe my own excuses, you know, and that's a tough one, man. I know that half the time I'm full of, like, come on, man. Really, you know, I mean, I know.

We just met each other, and I know we're Having, you know, this type of conversation here. But how could I support you in stopping the excuses for yourself?

Well, again, having the conversation. I don't have these conversations. People in my circle aren't going to pull me aside and go, you know, you really should stop eating so much and drinking so much and you know, it wouldn't kill you to lift up freaking weight, you know, you want to go for a walk. It is an uncomfortable conversation because I'm being very vulnerable about the fact that this is a problem I have that I haven't addressed. And I don't. I can make a million excuses, but in reality it's just me. So the best way to support me is the fact that we're having conversation.

Yeah. And I'm not trying to get you upset at me if we just met each other. But my thing is, from an outside perspective, I see the talent that you have, I see the success you have, I see the career you've made that people would dream of having. Other comics are like, look at you as this. The career is like a dream career. Right. But I think about your 80 year old self and what he wants for you. That's what I think about is what is your 80 year old you want for you at 80, at 50, at 60, at 70? And he wants you happy, he wants you healthy and he wants you feeling good. That's what I think from an outside perspective. So I have this conversation with you because I want to see you continue to bring joy to so many people in the world for a long time. And I want to see you bring joy to yourself for a long time. So that's why I have the uncomfortable conversation with you, risking you getting frustrated at me. But I want to see, I want to see how I can support.

So I'm going to follow up with you afterwards, man, and see how I can support you. Eliminate these excuses because it's not easy. You know, I have excuses for myself with different things as well that I need coaching, I need accountability, I need to, you know.

Oh yeah, those are, those are, those are tough words. I had learned a lot of those words in therapy. Accountability. That's a big one right there.

Oh, man.

Yeah. No one wants to be responsible and accountable. That's a tough one right there.

It's not. Especially when you've created so much for yourself. You worked so hard, you weren't, you busted your butt for so long and you want to enjoy some of it too. So I get it. What have you learned about the keys to having a healthy relationship and Successful marriage when you didn't have the success, the fame, the notoriety, you know, for the first, I guess, 15 years to now having more of that, what have you learned as one person in the relationship, you know, gets more famous and successful and financially well off. What. What have you learned or what advice would you give others in relationships?

For us, it's always been we all. We got, right? You know the saying, don't believe the hype. I live by that. Don't believe the hype. My husband, we are our foundation. That's where it begins. It's God first and then us, right? Then the children and all the things. But together we can do everything together. You know, my husband was. We moved to LA and so that I could pursue my dreams for 15 years. He was a Los Angeles police officer.

Wow.

He was like, I can go get this job and we can at least have one solid income that has benefits, you know, because we had kids and you could pursue your dream.

Wow.

And never have to get, you know, a career, like a job job. Although I always had a job, but I might have a job for a year or two and then quit or, you know, whatever. So he sacrificed, right? He did that. And I used to tell him, five years, I'm gonna blow up out here in LA and I'm gonna take you out of there. He'd be like, don't. I don't care about that. I just want. I'm fine. Pursue your dream. Pursue your dream, right? We did that together. And so it didn't happen in five years, but after 15 years, I was like, listen, this don't even make sense for you to be working no more. Please retire, like, from LAPD and do something that you want to do, you know, something else. So being together and never letting the noise in, like, people start believing the hype. I am Tabitha Brown only because I carry my husband's last name, right? So I am a wife first. Like, that's what it is. Like, me and my husband, that's it. Everything else is added on. That's all. It's just work is work, but we never let it.

I don't know how to explain it. I think that people, sometimes they forget that marriage should be first, you know? And for me, it's family first. It's gonna always be that my career is my bonus, that I get to live right, that all the other things, it's the bonus.

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My dream God gave me. I also feel like my husband was part of my dream. Right. That's part of who I am. Like, this is who he chose for me.

Right.

Right. To do this life with.

What's his name?

Chance.

Chance.

Mm.

What's the thing you love about Chance the most, honey?

He makes me feel safe. But Chance is not gonna do nothing that Chance don't wanna do. And you be like, hey, you wanna go do that? Nope, not doing that. Like, it's just. Sometimes it gets on my nerves. But it's also admirable, like, oh, you're not easily influenced.

He's authentic. He is.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Because of the marriage, you gotta have to deal. Certain things you don't want to do all the time.

Oh, yeah.

Let me tell you now, it's me today, though, he get on my nerves with that. I be like, you know what? I can't stand that about you. And then other days, like, I love that about you. But I think another thing is he's a phenomenal father. I've been able to witness my husband in all stages of his life. Right. Yeah. We grew up together. We've known each other pretty much our whole life, since we were 10. And so I've seen him as a boy. I've seen him as a young man. And now, you know, a man man. You know, he's 45, and it's been an honor to watch him evolve and grow.

Wow.

And mature. But fatherhood has been one of the best things to witness.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

If someone is feeling, maybe not, like, in a complete depression or completely sick or completely out of it, but they just know there's something more for them. Maybe their relationships aren't where they want them to be, or maybe their career is just off a little bit, or they just feel like. I just don't feel like the fire inside of me is driving me to where I need to be. You talk about 30 days to living free. What's the first few steps someone can take in starting to live free to get that alignment back inside of them?

Yeah. It's so funny, because this is why I started this challenge. Right. This is a challenge that I started in 2014 because I was trying to. Because what you're describing is feeling stuck. Right. It's like, you know, there's something else, but you don't know what it is. We get in such a routine that we forget we haven't done anything outside of our routine for so long. So I always say start with doing something new. It can be as simple as driving a different way to work or a different way to a friend's house, whatever, or walking a different way just so that your eyes can see something it's never seen before. Something new that shifts the brain. Right. Like, even wearing something you normally don't wear. Like, for me, I always tell people, if you wear black all the time, throw some color on.

I gotta throw some color on soon, you know?

Right. Like, for me, I don't like wearing black, but I found this, and I was like, it got a little color on it.

It's cool.

I'm doing a new thing. Right. And so it's little things. Even trying a new food, you know, going to dinner or lunch by yourself. You know how many people are afraid to eat alone?

I know.

Doing things that challenge you, that will open up a new space inside of you. That's what doing a new thing does for us. And that's how we start to think. Oh, okay. And then going back to, like, what is your dream? Like, what's the thing that won't let you rest? And I. And I talked about this recently because people, sometimes they get confused by a dream versus a goal. Goals are things that we create. Dreams are deposited inside of us.

Let's go.

We don't make them up. They live there. That's why we can't rest, because they're constantly nagging us. A goal. You can be like, I make that goal or I did it. Check. But the dream won't let you rest. Even when you. Even when you manifest it and it comes, it still is persistent. There's more to do until we are getting, you know, called home. The dream is just. It lives inside of us.

Yes.

It's. It's born inside of us. So I always say, do one small thing every day towards your dream. Even if you're stuck in the 9 to 5 job or in a relationship that, you know, or business, whatever the case is, that makes you feel like, oh, I don't have time to do something towards me. Right. Which we all are worthy of doing something toward ourselves every day.

Yes.

Do one small thing. Whether it's reading something that can help open up, you know, an idea in your mind to help you get closer to your dream, whether it's watching a movie or a TV show or listening to a podcast that can help Inspire or open up something in your mind. Something small. Every day, one little thing.

There's a lot of people that feel like that want to be. They want to achieve their dreams or be successful so quickly. You know, if they haven't made it by 27, it's like they're a failure.

I don't know who put that time frame right.

But you, you know, you started to really gain traction in your late 30s, early 40s, right?

Yes.

What was the biggest lesson for you for, I guess, having successful later in your 30s and early 40s versus in 20s, what did you learn about yourself?

I learned that I was not ready when I thought I was. I wouldn't have nothing to show for it. Right. I needed to do, as my daddy would say, keep on living. I needed to do more living before it came so that I could a know how to pray for it. Right. Because a lot of times I used to pray, pray, pray for all these things to happen. Oh, God, I want my dreams to come true. And, you know, I'm fasting, I'm praying on it, but I was never praying. God, when I get it, prepare me to keep it.

Let's go. This is the biggest challenge for a lot of people. I'm so glad you said this, because early on, I was probably 25, 26. I remember being broke, living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. No money.

Yeah.

And I had a mentor at the time that I was working for for free, learning from him, and I was like, man, I'm really struggling. I could really use some money right now. He said, money comes to you when you're ready for it. I was like, I feel pretty ready. I feel ready for this. But he's like, it'll come to you when you're ready for it. Otherwise, if you get it too early, you'll probably lose it.

Yep.

And I think it's similar to, like, having a dream, like, if you're not prepared for success or prepared for the pressures that might come with it.

Yeah.

You might. Cause you might sabotage it. You might lose it. You might squander it. You might not be ready for all of the responsibility, the weight that potentially could come with it. Right.

That's right.

So you don't feel like you would have been ready for it in your 20s or early 30s?

Oh, absolutely not. I wasn't ready for everything I was going to gain. I also wasn't ready for everything I was going to lose.

What did you lose?

Friendships, relationships. Right. Things that people that I thought I Would have in my life forever. And when I started walking in my freedom, they started to disappear.

Wow.

But God revealed to me. He said, everybody's not ready to walk in their freedom, so being close to you while you're in yours is disturbing their spirit.

Oh.

And I couldn't allow that to affect me in a way that I know it would have affected me in my 20s or early 30s.

Oh, my gosh.

But in this 45, I'm all right with it. I love them, But I understand.

45 feeling alive, right?

45 feeling alive.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. So, man, I can resonate with that because, you know, in my teens or my early 20s, there were certain relationships that I had formed that made me feel good and safe.

Right.

Yep.

And I remember losing relationships almost every few years.

Yeah.

And I would be really sad that I was losing these relationships that people want to call me back or they didn't want to hang out anymore. But I also know that I was in such a pursuit of my mission and pursuit. Pursuing things that later I found out that some of my friends told me, like, it scared them. Right. Because I was pursuing certain things, and they weren't pursuing the things they wanted.

Yeah.

So I felt really hurt that they didn't want to hang out anymore. But it also kind of set me free to have more time for mentors or people that were wiser or older than me, who I can learn from and build relationships with them. To give me counsel.

Yes.

And to kind of guide me forward.

That's right.

And that's one of the most challenging things, I think, is leaving the friend tribe.

Yeah.

When you want to bring people with you, but they may not be ready.

Everybody can't level.

They can't all go.

Everybody can't go. You know, I feel like a lot of times we. We feel bad because we. Especially when you love people. I'm. I love people.

Me too.

I'm a people lover.

You're a loyal person. All these things. Right.

You always want to turn around and bring them back. And God revealed one day to me, he said, listen, everyone who you need to bring along, you don't have to turn around to get them. He said, because when you turn around, that's when you get distracted from. You got to keep your eye forward. The moment you do this, you might have just crashed. He said, the people were supposed to come. All you got to do is go like this. You never got to turn around. They right there. They right there. It's just like a hand off a baton. You watch a marathon they never turning around to reach for it. They just right here. So the ones who are supposed to come with you, you don't have to turn around to go get them.

So you've been married for 20 plus years, right?

Yep.

How has that worked with your relationship and marriage, you know, with you and your husband? Have you. Did you have struggle when you started to step into your authentic self because you became a different person? Maybe you became the person you always were. Right. Was there ever challenges in your marriage or relationship as you started to thrive or was there alignment right away and just like everything was perfect?

Oh, honey, listen. My husband was so happy. He was like, finally the world get to see who I know.

Wow.

Yeah. I mean, for years he hated the industry of Hollywood because he saw how it changed me. He would always say, why you can't just be you? He would. I mean, it would be all the time, why you can't just be Tab that we know, the same Tab that talked to your daddy. And I'd be like, that ain't what they want. I gotta be this tab. Those were the arguments and all the no's I would get and all the hard work I would be studying and going to class. And he was like, you doing all of this and they still don't like you. So he hated the industry for a long time. So when I became free and started walking in my freedom walk, he was like, now the world gets to see who I love. And I was like, you was kind of right about it. I guess all along you was probably like, but no, it actually has made our relationship better and stronger.

That's great.

Yeah.

Chance the man. You know, you talk about fears a lot in the book. I did a new thing. What do you think was the biggest fear when you were not fully obedient or fully living the most authentic life that was meant for you. And what is the biggest fear now? Stepping into owning you 100%.

I think the biggest fear before was, you know, dying with this thing inside of me, like, never letting it be seen. Right. Fear now doesn't necessarily live with me as much. I don't know if I have a necessary. Like, I don't know if I have a fear. I want to. I want to change people. Right. I want to. I want to affect them in the best way possible. Right. And sometimes trying to spread love and positivity, people don't want to buy into that sometimes.

Why is that?

I think misery loves company, you know? And sometimes happiness scares people. You know, you can have people that everything's going great. And they'll be like, I know something bad's gonna happen. Why we allowed to go through it either way? You know? So I think sometimes I don't necessarily fear it, but I am concerned. Am I doing enough with spreading love and trying to reach people? Am I doing it the right way? Even though I feel at peace about it? I always, you know, I'm in prayer, like God. Is this really what you want me to do? I want to make sure I'm not ever being triggered to get back into being in control. Because, you know, healing is a journey, and so sometimes we can be triggered to going back to our old things. And my old thing is being I'm in control instead of. No, no. I'm letting God be in control. And I'm walking, and I never want to go back. I never want to go back.

How do you know when you're on the right path? In surrender versus in control?

I think it's that feeling. For me, it's the feeling off balance.

When you feel like you're trying to control things, you feel more off balance.

Yeah. And when nothing seems to be lining up. Oh, Tab, you trying to do this? Step back. Step back. And let's look at every piece of the puzzle and make sure you're not trying to create the puzzle. Create the pieces and put it all together. Sit back and let God do what God does. We still have to do our part, because faith without work is dead. Right. But still, you got to let him orchestrate. Yeah.

Tomorrow.

Yeah.

What do you feel like will be the thing that holds you back the most moving forward? Besides, you know, being in. Trying to be in control or not be obedient. Is there anything else? You don't have the fears anymore. What are you preparing for? Like, with the abundance coming your way, what are you preparing for to make sure you don't get in your own way?

I think just staying true to who I am. Right. I don't. I don't fear. I don't fear or project negative. Right. I'm not. I'm not preparing for negative. I'm expecting the unexpected. Right. Which I'm always in my mind thinking of God, saying, it's more than what I can imagine. Right. That's greatness. That's what I'm. What I'm looking forward to. I don't look forward to cloudy days, although I know they will come, but they're not. It's not something I'm like, oh, I'm planning for a bad day. No, I'm planning For all good days, I am being mindful and intentional with joy. Right. So I don't think. And listen, that may be the thing that holds me back. And if it does, then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But I don't plan on allowing anything to shift me outside of the position God has put me in. I think that I trust God. I believe that he has me on this journey and I'm all right with whatever come my way.

There you go.

That's just kind of how I feel about it.

What do you think is the greatest lesson God has taught you?

I was always enough. I didn't need to try to do his job. Because the thing about when you conform and when you try to, you know, create another person, that's me saying, God, you didn't do a good enough job on me. I had to fix me. But he taught me he had did a great job and I was enough just as he created me to be.

Wow, it's inspiring.

You've done what, three books in the last four years?

Yeah.

Is that right?

Three in the last four In a little journal, like a workbook journal, but yeah, just keeping track.

This one's called I Did a New Thing by Tabitha Brown, your number one New York Times best selling author, multiple New York Times bestselling authority. This is all about the 30 days to living free. You talk about how to really create new habits and a framework around setting yourself up for freedom, stepping into your truth, overcoming your fears. I'm excited for people to get a copy of I Did a New Thing. What else are you most excited about these days that you're working on and how we can support and serve you?

Yes, I know. We were talking about it. I'm excited to get back into doing more acting. And I love that, you know, sometimes, and this is important for somebody to hear, somebody needs to be reminded of this. Sometimes we have a dream, right? But our journey to get to it doesn't always look like how we envision it. And so God took me on this whole different path that has led me back to be able to do the thing that I've been dreaming of since I was a kid. And so more acting. I just finished a film. Television, you know, doing things that really matter to me. Making people laugh, sometimes making them cry. Right. That's what we do as actors. Making people feel, that's it. Creating more products that people can use in everyday life. Because I think that's the most important. And I know my, I know my fan base, I know my as I call them, my fan base. They my family and you know, feeding people good food, good recipes but also feeding they so with inspiration and staying true. So I just keep on doing things that that matter and that are, you know, real to me.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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