Transcript of Sacrifice To Win

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions about life and money. So give give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up first, we have Sue in Tampa, Florida. Hi Sue, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So the reason why I reached out to you guys is because you're very Christian-based, and so my dilemma is my mom's in her 70s, never worked a traditional job where she could get Social Security on her own. So my parents got divorced when she— it was time for retirement. She did the calculation based on my dad's income, so she has a very small amount of Social Security. In her 50s, my dad helped her buy a house. She sold it and went on the mission field and basically funded herself, never was funded by a church. Whenever she'd have a financial crisis, she would reach out to my sister or I, and we had to help her, right? So she's used a lot of this— like, the Bible teaches us to honor our parents, and she uses that pretty much as her weapon to get me and my sister to continuously support her. So I wanted to reach out to you guys because you are a Christian-based company. Morally, like, I'm remarried with a blended family and we still have 3 minor kids in the house that we provide for. And like, morally, are my sister and I responsible for our mom for her choices?

Well, I mean, from a, from a basic level, no. I feel like we're all adults and we all get to make our decisions. And as much as— and honoring, and respecting, and taking care of are all 3 different categories of wording, right? So, honoring is a very different thing than even just respecting, right? Some parents are like, "You need to respect me. It's what the Bible says." It's like, "No, no, no. It says I should honor you. What does that look like?" It doesn't say, you know, that you have to fund every member of your family, including your parents, financially. When they have been adults and haven't made good decisions. It also says, Sue, in there, "You reap what you sow." Decisions that you make about your life will come to fruition. It also says, "Take care of your family first, or you're worse than an unbeliever." So, you're taking care of your nuclear family first before anyone else, right? So, I'm like, you can bat around scripture as much as you want, and people can pull their punches and their own way of looking at it. And so, I think, you know, what you're feeling is not wrong.

And where you feel like you're being maybe taken advantage of, and stress of taking care of your own family, you have to figure out priorities. And so, where I would push you is to say, you're probably gonna have to have a conversation around some boundaries, but also taking care of your family first, and then out of the abundance of what you have out of that, if there is any in the season, and you guys choose then, to help her, then that's one thing. But this idea of having to be forced into it is tough.

I agree. I almost, um, if I were in your shoes, I believe I would try to remove her from the conversation as much as possible because there's obviously some whatever around that. And if I would just say, hey, there's an opportunity here for generosity. How do I feel about it? Do I want to do it and do I not? And really, that's the bottom line. Do I want to do this? Do I not? And if you don't, that's fine because you want to be a cheerful giver. And if you can't do this with a cheerful heart and it doesn't feel right and it doesn't feel good, you shouldn't be giving under compulsion. And that's exactly what this is, is somebody's compelling you and trying to guilt you into something. And I think, like, removing all that aside, you can really just feel that and go, uh, it just doesn't feel good to me. And I think that's enough to make your decision, uh, at least for today, right?

Okay. I just don't know, like, where that line is between, like, honoring her. And I feel like when I— I've had to put her on boundaries, she's like get-rich-quick scheme person. Like, she gets sucked into that. And so, like, she has a lot of credit card debt. And instead of just giving her money, I've been trying to pay off her credit cards, but I've been limiting how much I pay towards it, knowing that she's just going to re-rack it up. It doesn't make sense.

That's right.

And so it's like, so I do, I give her $150, $200 a month, and it's like, but that's really like my limit. And then it's like, and then I have this internal battle of am I not honoring my mom.

And yeah, I think you might have dropped out on us. Uh, I think I would say—

no, I'm crying.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, she makes you—

she— you know, we make, we make mistakes as people, and I always tell people, like, when I go to heaven, I don't I want— I don't— like, is this something that's going to stop me and my— where I, I feel like where I end up? Because she has so much told us, like, what do you mean, part of honoring your—

what do you mean, where you end up?

Like, like, am I gonna— am I really truly saved, if that makes any sense at all?

I'm sorry, Sue. Oh my gosh. I'm just gonna speak freely here, Rachel, and I hope you do the same. No, ma'am. This is not gonna— this is not going to— the way that I believe, I believe that salvation is pretty simple. And it's not something that we earn. It's a free gift that we accept. And this feels like something you would be doing to earn your salvation. And also, I mean, it's just truthfully what you believe in Jesus Christ. Do you believe he died on the cross? Right? It's all that simple stuff.

Right?

And I think that this is just— this guilt has got you in a chokehold, and it feels manipulative to me. And I think that— I'm not saying your mom's a bad person. I'm sure she is. But I think that you're just—

She has a spiritual toxic relationship with God, is the way that I would phrase it.

And it's rubbing off on you.

Yes, yes.

Go ahead, Rachel, 'cause I know you got something to say.

No, I mean, that's it. It's being used as a weapon, and it's being used to corner you, and nothing in that is love. Nothing in that. And so, you are not in the wrong, Sue, you're not. Because here's the deal too, you keep, you know, you exchange irresponsibility and debt and get rich quick with something else, right? And if she was an alcoholic, and she's like, "You have to honor me and take care of me, and this is what I need to survive for the last few years of my life," and just get like, you're harming her. And so, by you continuing to give money, Sue, actually is causing harm because her behavior is not changing. And so, there is something to be said, again, I think about so much of how she has— manipulation is a great word, very toxic. And it's really sad because I think she's a very broken person. And out of that brokenness, she has formed a really jacked-up theology and has passed that on to her kids, to you, to even have you question those kind of things. And I just hate that. I wanna release that from you.

Thank you so much.

So, no, I think I would do some studying if she keeps throwing that. And even for your own conscious and spiritual walk.

Yeah, simply for you.

Go and research that. I mean, honestly, you can find the original Hebrew, Greek, you know what I mean? Like, go back and understand the context of all of it for your own self. Because I want you to make decisions, not out of weakness, but out of a power of knowing that this is an okay decision for me to make. And I'm not a bad person because of it. 'Cause you're not, Sue, you're not.

Thank you guys so much.

Absolutely. So yeah, you, good luck with you. And you may have to have some tough conversations and those boundary conversations are short and sweet, direct and to the point, very kind, but there's gonna probably be some boundaries set up because she's not in a good place and doesn't continue to show any level of behavior of healing and changing her patterns with money.

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We have, is it Gianna in Washington, D.C.? Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's so nice to be here today.

Oh, it's good to talk to you. We were just in Washington, D.C. last week with some of my kids, and it was so fun. Such a great trip. So it's a great area. But yeah, how can we help today?

So my question is, I'm 24 with about $22,000 left in federal student loan debt. I currently I currently pay about $500 a month to pay these loans down. I invest $500 a month in a Fidelity mutual fund towards a house. Additionally, I contribute 6% to my 401 that my employer matches. So my question is, with the high cost of living in the area that I'm in, I feel behind on saving for a house. So should I keep saving for a home with the $500 a month or focus on paying off my student loans more aggressively?

All right. So I hear a couple of things going on. First off, I think what you want to do, I commend it. The fact that you want to save for a down payment, the fact that you want to be investing, and the fact that you're maybe thinking about paying off these student loans are all really good goals to have. The only thing that I would do is streamline this a little bit so that you can actually accomplish something. And it's really hard to accomplish something when you're doing multiple things at a time. All right. The way that I think about this You've got $500 a month going to investments. You've got 6%, whatever that number is, going to 401. And there's also, you know, $22,000, a big chunk of money to pay off. And I like to think of it, Gianna, like if I had a pitcher of water and I had like 5 or 6 different cups I needed to fill up, you can think of those as your debts and you're just putting a little bit in each cup every month. It's going to take forever to fill up any of those cups.

But if you take one month and, you know, focus in for a while and say, you know, I'm going to put this whole pitcher in that one. You can actually fill up a glass and it feels great, right? So keep that in mind. And what I would suggest for you to do is let's pull back. Let's say for temporarily, just for a little bit, let's hold investing temporarily for a little bit. Let's hold off on the down payment and let's knock out these student loans because the longer we wait on those, the interest is just going to keep accruing. And if we had the full power of our income, How quickly could you knock out $22,000?

Probably in 2 to 3 years, I would say.

What do you earn?

About $90,000 a year.

Is it just you?

I'm going to, I'm going to say 14 months. I'm going to push you. I'm going to push you. If you, if you stop all of that, because the 6% that you're putting in, I mean, that's around, eh, yeah, $400 a month or so going there. So that, plus the $500, plus what you're already doing, I think you could, if you squeeze out some more in your budget and not go out to eat, don't shop, delete Amazon off your phone, I think you could get $1,500 a month.

That's hard.

I know, I know.

But we just found you $1,000 a month. So 2 years at the least. I know.

I think you could find at least $1,500. I think you could do that. And even if you worked an extra job at night for maybe 2 or 3 nights a week, right? Like the faster you get you get this done, the faster, let's say that $1,500 that was going to debt now is going to investing and a down payment. And I would say, depending on your, how urgent you are with the home, I probably would even pause investing to save up. It's what we call Baby Step 3B. So after you are out of debt, get an emergency fund in place. So have some cash set aside for that. And then I would spend probably 2 years saving up a down payment. Before I press play on investing. Because you're still young enough.

I would, yeah.

You're gonna be fine. And I think the more you can get that ball rolling and get into a home and put at least 5% down on a home, I think it's gonna be a great step for you. And you'll have plenty of time for investing in retirement. I don't want you to wait too long, but in the next 5 years or so, paying off debt, an emergency fund, and a down payment, I think are great goals. And then just say by the time you're, you know, 28, 29, press play on investing and what you're gonna be doing then. Gianna, I'm just following the Baby Steps as we're walking through this. And after you save for that down payment is 15% of your income into retirement. So it'll be a little more than what you're even investing now. And you'll be fine by the time you get to 59 and a half retirement age.

Gianna, it's just you, right? No kids, no hubby?

No kids, no hubby. I have a boyfriend, but maybe engaged in the next little bit. Yeah. Few years, I would say.

Which may change some of these numbers too, right? In a sense of location, job, if you buy a home, if you don't. I mean, like, you know, life is happening around our money, right? And so we kind of use our money to shift what is happening in our life, which is a great thing.

And you know, the thing is, the other thing I wanna throw at you is the idea that, you're single. I mean, you have a boyfriend, but you don't have, you know, babies and things like that going on. Now's the time to pick up a side hustle. Now's the time to really, like, if you want this to go quickly, pick up those extra hours, do that extra job. Because Rachel and I, if I did the math well enough here, you should be, we just found you around $1,000. If you pick up another side hustle where you're making another $1,000, well, gosh, there it is right there. Like, it's so, so. Within your grasp. So I just want to remind you of that. And I want you— my personal homework for you would be go home, go on RamseySolutions.com and get on that investment calculator, Rachel, because when we have young cats calling in that are in their 20s and they feel like they're out of time, I'm like, please go play with the calculator so you can see your millions of dollars.

You will be fine. You will be fine. Yes.

So please do that and do it with 15% of your income and do it from age 28. And you're going to be astounded by what you see.

Yep, absolutely. Well, good luck to you, Johnny. I mean, yeah, I would say follow the Ramsey Baby Steps. Get out of debt first, get an emergency fund, start saving for a down payment, and then start investing. And you can do all of that in the next 4 years or so, and you will set yourself up so well. All right, let's go to Brendan in Orlando, Florida. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing?

Hi, we're doing good. How are you?

I'm good.

Good, how can we help?

Okay, so my question is, I'm 22. I have a car that I owe about $25,000 on. And I want to— I'm thinking about getting rid of it to get a truck and cash, um, so that I can start doing side work because I do HVAC. I work for a company and I want to start doing side jobs with the truck.

Awesome. How much do you make a year?

Um, last year, because I also have a side hustle, I sell stuff online like e-commerce. Um, last year I made around $75,000.

Oh, good for you.

Cool.

Um, what do you think you can sell the car for? You owe $25,000 on it.

On Kelley Blue Book it says that it's worth about what I owe, $25,000, but I know if I take it to a dealership that it'll, I'll probably be upside down. Yeah.

Do you have money saved to go get a truck?

Yes, I do. I have around $60,000 saved up.

Oh my gosh.

Oh wow, good job.

Well done, Brendan. What other debt do you have?

That is it.

That's it? No student loans, no credit card debt?

No, no.

What do you plan to spend? So I mean, yeah, getting rid of the car is a no-brainer. You break even on it. Yep. No problem there. Out of the $60,000, what do you think you're gonna spend on this truck in cash?

Probably around $15,000.

I love this for you.

That's great. Yeah, that's a green light for us, for sure. And then you're doing a side hustle because that's gonna leave you enough probably for an emergency fund, I think fully funded at that point. So I would just put the remainder of that money in just a high-yield savings account. You can open up an account with Fairwinds Credit Union. They're awesome. And just stick that in a high-yield savings, forget about it. And then, yeah, start getting to work and funding and then start retirement investing. But then do you have any investments open right now?

Yes, about $40,000 of it is in a money market and then about $10,000 of it— I know Dave would kill me if he heard this— is in single stocks.

Oh, single stock.

Okay.

I was going to say crypto. I was like, I can't— we can guess all the things that he would kill you for.

But, and then the rest is honestly just cash just sitting around. Okay.

Yeah, well, the homework I would give you is look into opening up a Roth IRA for yourself. And you can—

And I do have a Roth as well.

Oh, you do?

I just started it. It's around $2,200 in there. Good for you.

Amazing.

Yes.

And I think you can max it out at $7,500 this year.

Yeah.

And if you get to the point, I'd be putting 15% in there. You're there.

100%.

15% off of every paycheck, off the gross amount. Yes. You're adulting, my friend.

Brendan, well done. At 22, this is awesome. And the fact that you have $60,000 saved on the side for it, I mean, that's an easy call, Brendan.

I know it.

Yeah, your issues aren't issues. You're good. You're good to go. Thanks for calling.

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Hey, thank you so much for having me, guys.

Yes, absolutely, how can we help?

So right now, my predicament, my name's Sid, I'm from Chicago, the city, and right now, A week and a half ago, 2 weeks ago, I wanted to pay off all my debt. I had like 26% in revolving credit cards totaling like $20,000. So I wanted to do a consolidation loan. I was getting stupid APR rates, like 30%. And it seemed like the only option I had that I found out I had enough in my 401 was to do a 401 loan at a 7.5% interest rate. And so I did that and I took out $18,800 and I did the loan at a 7.5% rate. And I cleared out pretty much all my debt. I only have one more credit card totaling $1,800 that I intend on paying in like 2 months. I'm seeing if, one, this is the best decision, and two, because of course you never want to go ahead and spend more on the credit cards. I'm saying, you know, was this a good strategy and what I can do like going forward. Currently I have like $500 in my bank account.

Yeah.

Wow.

Well, I'll say the avenue at which you took to pay off debt is you used debt to pay off debt. And I'll say that's pretty normal. We hear that a lot. And the problem is you're tackling the wrong issue. You're tackling it at a math side. You threw out so much interest rates and numbers and said that the problem with your money is not interest rates. The problem with your money is you. And if you don't change you, you're gonna be right back where you started. So, you just took money, you know, robbed Peter to pay Paul, basically. You know, you took money out of your own future, borrowed from your own future to pay this off, and now you gotta go back and pay off the 401 loan. And so, So, you moved money around basically is all you did. You didn't really fix the problem. And so, that's why we always talk about personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. If it was a math issue, nobody would be in debt. We could figure that out.

Right.

The problem is, is that you have spent money that you don't have. And the great thing is though, you are the problem, but you're also the solution, that you are the one that's gonna get you out, meaning you're cutting expenses, working 2 extra jobs. Like, you are the one that's going to be the most effective of getting yourself out of debt, not a debt consolidation company or a 401 loan.

Yeah, I think Rachel said it just right, because think about it for a second. And this has always bothered me about 401 loans, because it's your money. And they're charging you interest to take your own money like that. That's wild to me. That's, that's crazy work, which is one reason why I would never suggest it. But you're here now and hopefully you learn from that. And just knowing, hey, once you borrow from this money, you've got a period of time to pay it back. But if something happens and you lose your job and you're no longer at that company, then that time frame becomes accelerated. I believe you have a calendar year to get going on that. So you're in it now. And I agree with Rachel, you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. And so we've just got to stop with the debt and we can't use debt to pay off debt. So the question comes, what are we doing next? And so what's your next plan?

Well, I mean, right now, I mean, not going to lie, of course you guys hit it on the head. I definitely robbed Peter to pay Paul, but I will say it definitely felt good to know, like I'm 30, just for you guys out there, I am 30 years old. Pretty much it does feel good to have my 20s essentially paid off with all the fun that I had. So it does feel good to see my credit score going up. It definitely beat out a consolidation loan. And I definitely did try the snowball method. I make like $70K a year, $65K. And I also have a second job. I am an actor. So I get paid outside of that too and stuff. So I guess now, I guess it's just like really behavioral changes. Like instead of like going to that movie or going out or going on that trip, just kind of staying put and just looking for ways to just make that emergency fund. I also did check to see like, what if I did lose my job? I know that was like a big thing that I think my parents are telling me about.

And they said that I would be able to take that loan and just move it to whichever company that I would be at. So I don't really think that's an issue. And for those of you who are—

Yeah, that's not always the case, but I want to challenge you on this, Sid, because I feel like you're I'm 42, so I'm a little bit further down the road. Not that much further. But here's what I want to challenge you on, because I feel like you're on the minutia. I want to challenge you on the bigger arc of how you view money philosophy, right? Because that's what you're going to need to decide. You're going to need to decide, am I a person who is a borrower or am I a person who wants to be in charge of my money? And I think that's the overarching question that you have to decide. You mentioned a credit score, you mentioned feeling better about— so I think you just have to decide, who do I want to be? Am I a person? Do I, you know, we believe that the borrower is slave to the lender. Are you cool with that? Are you a person who's like, you know what, I don't mind debt. Sometimes I like the leverage, right? If you're that person, I would say decide who you're going to be. Otherwise you're going to just vacillate all the time and it's you're gonna be taking two steps forward, one step back.

And I will tell you one thing about Ramsey principles, the Baby Steps that we teach, you just gotta do 'em. Like, if you don't do 'em, they really don't work because it's a system. And the only way a system works is if you do the things in order the way the system tells you how to do it. So, that's what I would say around this.

Yeah, I mean, I would just guarantee you, Sid, if you got yourself out of debt and you said, "I am not chasing debt anymore," which means the credit score doesn't matter because I'm gonna be paying cash for everything. I'm not going into debt. I'm not going to borrow money, pay interest on something, and I'm gonna have—

I hate that. It was an awful experience.

Totally, yeah, so you feel it. You have that bad taste in your mouth. And when you have an emergency fund, you have cash sitting in the bank, not just $500 in your account, but 10, 15 grand sitting there. That's a, you know, a 3-month emergency fund. And then you're investing 15% of your income into retirement, which is Baby Step 4, and you're earning interest on your money versus paying interest of being in debt. You start building wealth so quickly, so quickly. Like, you start to watch— go ahead.

Sorry, sorry for talking over you. I mean, it sounds like pretty much I'm kind of like a— it's like two sides of one coin. Like, one side I am paying off debt, but on the other side of the coin, like, it seems like I have like an opportunity to actually take control of my money and do the right things. But now I only have one life left, like it's a video game, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. And I'll tell you this, we do not believe in— Dave always says it's living in a cave and collecting rent and only coming out on, you know, Triple Coupon Tuesday or whatever. Like, we are known as sacrificing to get ahead, meaning getting yourself out of debt and all that. And then we also say, you live like no one else, so then later you can live and give like no one else. So, I hope 40-year-old Sid is going on the trips to Europe that he wants to go to. Absolutely. And he's paying cash for it. For it. I pray that you have a car that you've always wanted and you're paying cash for it. I pray you have so much that you're able to find something that you get to plug yourself into that's not about you and you're generous and you can live in abundance and you give freely because you can. Like, these are things we want. That's the whole point. And it's more about being on your terms and living within your means to do those things versus leveraging and using the bank's money. Because here's the deal, You may have some freedom and feeling good with the wind in your hair and a boat on a European coast using a bunch of credit cards, but the stress is coming that you're gonna have to pay that trip off.

And so, it is a, you get to choose, am I gonna be stressed to save and actually pay for things, or am I gonna be stressed on the other side because I'm being borrowed? So, I would much rather be the one in control of my money and maybe say no for the short term, But the long term, Sid, with this plan, you can enjoy your life. That's what it's all about.

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All right, we're gonna head to Jackson, Mississippi, and we have Daniel on the line. Hi, Daniel, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, I just wanted to add— I just wanted to say first that I have not always been the best at negotiating purchasing vehicles from dealerships, so I was hoping y'all might be able to talk about that for a bit and give your best advice, so on and so forth. What to say, what not to say, all that good stuff, if you don't mind.

I love this question.

Yeah, it's a good one.

So what are you looking to buy?

Probably going to be an SUV. I'm currently in a Camry. Um, we're fixing to have our second child, and being that I'm 6'2", it's really, really dangerous. We figured out when my head was hitting the ceiling that that was I don't need that in my life. So here we go.

So you're getting the SUV. This is an upgrade. What do you guys plan to spend? And I'm assuming it's cash.

It is probably in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $40,000.

Way to go.

Hopefully no more than that.

I love that for you. So I've done a couple of cars in cash. I know Rachel's probably done more than me. I'll tell you what I used to do and then I'll tell you what I've learned to do, which works a lot better. So from what I understand, uh, Rachel, uh, when you go to a car dealership, they don't make money on a cash sale. The money that they make is generally on a finance deal, and they're getting a kickback from you financing the vehicle. So when you come on site and you let them know right off the bat that you're pay— that you're paying cash, a lot of times, like, any interest in that deal completely fizzles out.

Yes.

Because they're like, oh, I'm not gonna make any money on —this, which can—

sorry, can I interject? It be— which is different than an individual, right? So if you go and spend cash with an individual, they're probably needing that cash. Like if you find someone on Facebook Marketplace and they're selling and you're like, I got cash right here, we can make the deal today, I don't have to worry about financing and me not, you know, being approved for the loan, they're like, oh, let's get it. So you're more on the upside on the cash perspective with an individual versus a dealer, because you're exactly right, they don't make dealerships, yeah, don't, I made that mistake. Don't make that one. They don't care. No, and we used to teach that, Jade. I think in like the old FPU videos, Dave would be like, go in and tell them you got cash. They used to be excited. They used to be like, ooh, and now they don't want that. They want you to have a loan so they can make some extra money. So don't show all your cards first is what you're saying.

Well then, yeah, then that pulls up a good point. What do you think, Daniel? Are you thinking about private sale or are you thinking about a dealership?

Dealership? It's gonna— it'll be a dealership. Um, it's just easier for me doing it that way.

Okay, that's great.

Yeah. Okay, so then I would go in and I would have my eye on whatever it is. I like to do a lot of research up front and already know, like, this is the vehicle, uh, you know, this is the one I want. Go in and try to get the best deal you can. And they're going to ask you, how do you want to pay for this? What are you thinking? And I usually say, you know, I just want to see where we land. Let's just see where we land.

Yeah, I'm not sure. We'll just, we'll, we'll, yeah, I'll figure that out.

And then I don't tell 'em until the very end. And then from there I'm usually trying to get money off of like some of the dealer fees, some of the things that they actually have control over. Those are the things I'm checking first. And yeah, that's it. And if I have seen similar models of the same car in other locations, I'll usually show them and say, well, this one is, you know, $2,000 cheaper or whatever that is. And I think as, as well prepared as you can be, with other dealerships that have similar options to kind of match that price. That's what I would do.

Yeah, and as you're asking for the price and making sure you get the out-the-door price, because what they quote you may be one thing, and then when you get to inside the little office and you start signing some stuff. It looks different. The taxes come up, you know, the registration fee. I mean, like there's fees attached to it. And so I would just keep hammering the out-the-door price, the out-the-door price. This is what I can do. How can you help me? You know, it's like you kind of just have to, you kind of have to keep at it. You almost have to annoy them a little bit and see if they'll budge. But sometimes dealers, they don't, they're not all super willing to always negotiate. And is it a used car?

I'm assuming it's a used car.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, no, I'm not gonna buy a new car. I've been listening to y'all and to your dad way too long to do that.

Okay. Just double checking because I'm also going to suggest, you know, make sure obviously that you have the Carfax and they pull those and that you can look at that. And even, I mean, $40,000 is a lot of money. I would recommend bringing it to Christian Brothers if you have one in your area. Christian Brothers Automotive, they will do— they will go and give a once over on a vehicle that you're looking to buy just to verify that it really is in good condition. And just ask the dealership, say, hey, I'd like to have my mechanic look at this. And you can do that. And I would suggest that with any used car just to make sure where you feel good about the purchase. But absolutely, I'm excited for you.

Yeah, that's great. And I think too, this is where I get in trouble. I get so emotional. So, I'll like get, when we bought our minivan after Charles was born, I would like get in one.

Like sit in it?

I did. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I wanna sit." And Winston was like, "Shut up, Rachel." Don't tell him that you— We did the same thing with a house. We were looking at houses. I was like, "Oh my gosh, the baby." You know, and he's like, "Stop, stop." You are the worst.

I already knew we were the Christmas tree guys.

Yeah, you are the worst person to do this with. So, don't be overly emotional. And when you're when you're not overly emotional, you also are not attached to this one specific car on the lot that you have to have. Because if they don't give you the price that you feel like is fair or that you wanna pay, you have to have the ability to walk away. I think that's one of the most, like, that's the— but when people get wrapped up, it's cars or houses or whatever it is, and like, it's the only one, this is the only one I can— and you're like, no, it's not. No, it's not. It's fine. Like, you get trapped at that point and you sometimes end up overpaying when you get so emotional about it.

I always think of this episode of The Cosby Show when they're going to buy the car and he dresses in like sweatpants and like an old t-shirt because he doesn't want the dealer to know that he's a doctor and has money. And then his buddy recognizes him and he's like, "Dr. Huxtable!" Anyway, yeah. He's like, "Shh, shh." Yeah, you don't want him to know, so don't tell him you have cash. Like, now's the time, you know, just wear your old sneakers. Like, don't—

see if they'll get it down. Be like, "I want to walk away with the car today. What can you do for me?" Oh, it's so good. Well, good luck, Daniel. And with the second baby. That's exciting. Yes. All right, next up we have Landon in Michigan. Hi, Landon. Welcome to the show.

Hey, I really do appreciate being on here today.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, so I'm 22 years old, married to my wife, also 22 years old. I make about $55,000 a year working 60 hours a week. She makes about $46,000 a year. We have about $70,000 in debt as well. I might have an opportunity here to go back into a career that I was in before, starting off making about $80,000 a year. And in 4 years making a base pay of about $150,000 and with overtime $190,000 with good benefits, especially the baby on the way. The problem is that I left this career while I was in Florida and we moved back to Michigan to be close to the family. But with a baby on the way and not being able to go to college in order to get into the career that I'd more like, I don't think getting in more debt is the right choice. But the commute is an hour and 45 minutes away and my wife feels like I'm just going to hate the job again even though it's more money. And so I guess my question is, is if you were in my position, would you go back to that career because of what it could do for our financial future, or would you keep pursuing a different career path?

Not for an hour and 45-minute commute each way. Is that—

is it each way? Each way. We would plan on moving eventually, but it wouldn't be right away.

Do you have to stick— like, I'm all for a little bit of uncomfortability to sacrifice to win. If you go back to this job, nothing says you have to stick with it for the long haul. I mean, could you do it for 2 years to pay off the That's what I was trying to tell her. For a year?

That's what I was thinking. Like, if I don't like it that much, you know, then we can always quit, but I can't ever get the opportunity back. There's not many of these opportunities here in Michigan. What is it? Um, uh, working as a utility lineman for utility company. Oh yeah, yeah.

How quickly do you get to $190,000? Um, it would be in 4 years. Oh. Uh, I'm probably gonna be out because if you know you hate it, you add the commute on it. It's not like you can just bust into this job, make $190,000 very quickly, and use that money to pay off this debt in, you know, 18 months.

When's the baby due? Um, January. January. Is your wife gonna go back to work after baby's here? Like after maternity leave and everything?

Yeah, she would. It's just, um, Um, we would be cutting down a lot. Like, we only have a couple extra hundred bucks at the end of the month when the baby is here.

Sure, there's no choice. It's hard.

Yeah, yeah, it's hard because we can move closer.

What's the, what's the, um, $70,000 in debt? What does that consist of?

Uh, that consists of 2 cars and then my student loan.

How much are the cars?

Uh, trade school. How much are the cars? Cars are $35,000 combined.

Oh, Landon, I'm out. Oh, I would I would choose a no commute, making less with a crappy car. Yes, ma'am. All day. All day. And paying off that car. No, you guys need to sell it and get some crappy cars. You may have to take a small loan for the difference, but I would do that all day.

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NMLS ID 1591, nmlsconsumeraccess.org, equal housing lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions about your life and your money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, let's head to New Orleans, and we have Mary on the line. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for having me on.

Absolutely, how can we help today?

Thank you. So this is, um, what's going on. So recently I found out that I am inheriting 100 ounces of spot gold coins, which is a total value of $409,500. And so I'm 25.

Wait, $400,000? $409,000?

Yeah. So almost half a million. Yeah, I know. And so, um, I'm 25 and I'm an only child and my parents are older. So my dad's 71 and my mom is 66 and they're both living.. And so, right now, already, I'm inheriting my house that is $620,000 and then my mom's life insurance policy of $150,000. And so, that is equal to— oh, and my dad sold his life insurance policy. So, that is equal to $1,179,500. And so, this is a lot of information that, you know, that I'm learning. And so right now we have no car notes, no student—

like, we have no debt whatsoever.

And so, um, I'm just trying to figure out how to go forward with this. Um, right now we have, um, like, for example, like, our car— like, we have no AC in our car and, um, like, some other things that we need to do around the house. And so, um, I'm just trying to figure out— like, a lot of people have been saying you should try to sell some of the gold, like maybe half of that amount and, um, yeah, and so I'm just trying to figure out how to approach this for sure.

So do you have, um, the gold specifically? Is it in your possession or will you get it when your parents pass?

So the only thing my dad says, and I, I think I need clarification, I try to get clarification with him on this, is that he said everything that I have is already yours. And so I like— the gold is in our safe right now. And I spoke to a financial advisor and he said I should put in like a safe deposit box, or my dad should. And I spoke to my dad and he got really upset and he refuses to do that and wants to keep everything in his possession.

So the gold is in his possession right now, not yours?

Yes, but there's no legal writing on like, like it's not even in my parents' will. And like my mom doesn't even know that he has it. Oh my God. Yes. To answer. Oh God. Okay. But to answer your, yeah. And so, but to answer your question, it is, it is in his possession.

Okay. So there's nothing for you to do today because you don't have anything, right? You're, it's not sitting in your home that you can go and start making financial moves. It's his. If you wanna ask another clarifying question of, "Hey, Dad, if this is gonna be mine and you're not gonna use it, and what's mine is yours," or whatever phrasing he said, and you want it today to— 'Cause what I would do is cash it out and start investing and, you know, using it to, you know, upgrade your life a little, which is not wrong, so that you can—

And I still live at home. I hate to interrupt, I'm sorry. I still live at home. Home.

Okay.

With my mom and dad. And so, um, just to put that out there.

Okay, gotcha. Yep. Um, okay, I think you, I think you guys just need, you need just a lot of, um, more clarity around all of this because it's, it's big numbers you're talking about. So first and foremost, I would encourage him to get a will, and you guys can go to mamabearlegalforms.com. It's pretty easy to do. You just get a state-specific will for one in Louisiana Anna, and you write down the assets, you know, you just walk through the process. But that way you at least, if anything hits probate or when they pass, you have this document that helps get things through so much faster. It is miserable to be digging through everything when they've passed if they don't have a will. I will, that's my number one is will. Number two is I would be having a conversation with him just to say, okay, Dad, you've told me all of this. What do you want to do? What are you— is the expectation that this all comes into my possession when you die? That's great. Like, either way doesn't matter. It's fine. I just need to know what's going on. And Dad, you probably want to discuss this with Mom and let her know what you guys have, just to be on the same page.

Like, it's so interesting that he's keeping that from her, right?

I know. Um, yeah, he, he doesn't— she thinks she has a spending problem, but But the thing is, though, I think there's a— it's a lot of financial, um, I don't know how I should word it. I don't want to say abuse, but like dysfunction. It kind of— pardon? Dysfunction. Yeah, like he— like, for example, he makes the most of the money, um, in the house, but he expects my mom to pay everything, like groceries. Like, he doesn't contribute to everything and only pays electricity and water.

And so, um, they've got something interesting going on. And, and if I were you, I'd probably try to steer clear of of that because it has nothing to do with you. But I would ask for the things that pertain to me, can there be clarity around that? And can we have a family discussion around it? Because I don't want any of this coming to light after the fact and it coming out on me. I want— do you see what I'm saying? Whenever there's secrets, it can end poorly and the wrong people can kind of have to bear the weight of that. And so, if you guys can have those discussions, in the light of day when everybody's above ground.

That is fabulous. Yeah. And I told my dad, I said, Dad, you, you need to talk to, to Mom about this. This is not fair. And he's like, no, no, like, I, I need to protect this. He's very like doomsday.

Sure. Are you the only sibling? Are you the only child? Yes, I'm an only child. Okay. Um, yeah. Okay.

So yeah, I mean, I think you can, you You can say as much as you want, but at the end of the day, they're adults. They're gonna do what you want, and you can't control that. So, there's only, to Jade's point, there's only so much effort you could put into that. And there may not be, but it'd be like, "Here's my requests. Dad, how can you help me out here?" And then, Mary, beyond that, I just wonder for you and your financial future, right? I mean, and pretending like this doesn't exist.

Don't depend on it.

But for you to be self-sufficient, for you to move out, out and be on your own. You said you're 24? 25. 25, yeah. For you to start living your life, right? And again, if or when this stuff comes to fruition, that's wonderful. And I think you can be really wise about that. I would, you know, I would use it to, sure, upgrade some things in life. I would invest probably a bunch of it. I may give some of that. You know, like, there's different things you can do when it happens. But between now and then—

It's a long way to go.

You don't know when it's gonna happen. Is, yeah, start living your life and set yourself up well with really healthy spending habits, practicing saving and generosity. So, we always talk about how money's a magnifying glass that makes you more of what you already are. And so, if you create good money habits, Mary, and you have a level of security and contentment and a life that you've built yourself, and then this windfall of $1 million comes, that's just gonna magnify who you've become, which is a very healthy person around money. So, that's what you want. You can control.

I mean, I gotta believe, if she's 24, I gotta believe the parents are 50s.

Yes, but he said he may give it. He's like, "What's mine is yours." So, the question is, is he gonna give it to her now or not? I don't know. I don't know. Some clarifying questions, but at the end of the day, your parents, like all of ours, is, you know, have some little woo-woo tendencies. But if you can just clarify some of it, I think, Yes, that clarity is very, very important.

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Up next, we have Courtney in Las Vegas. Hi Courtney, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel, hi Jade, how are you guys Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Good, good, good. I just want to first off by saying I have listened to Dave and Rachel for 15 years. I'm 31 years old, never been in debt, cash flowed my entire college, medical stuff and everything. My gosh, well done. So thank you. If it wasn't for you guys, I don't think I'd be, you know, where I am today. So huge, huge thank you and such an inspiration. Absolutely. My question today is I am navigating a divorce. I have a 1 and 3-year-old, um, and I am running out of money. Um, I've been a stay-at-home mom for 4 years and, um, I've lost everything. So, um, with, you know, working prior to getting married, um, I've had a life savings of $70,000 and it's dwindled down to $50,000 in lawyer's fees. Um, the custody arrangement and child support is currently what we're, you know, litigating. I just don't know if it's worth fighting for. Um, I'm scared. I don't know if it's worth getting into debt for. Um, excuse me, I just don't know if I could sleep at night knowing I didn't fight for my two babies.

Oh, Courtney, I'm so sorry.

Is, uh, is he a good guy and it just didn't work out, or is he somebody that you really do feel like you need custody, full custody? What's the nature of the battle?

He is a very successful entrepreneur here in town, um, and so when we were together, he was just a workaholic. Um, I would say he's an okay— I mean, as far as like hands-on, he, you know, it wasn't— he believed in traditional roles and I was a stay-at-home mom Um, but I left because it became abusive. And unfortunately, the court system, if as long as he wasn't abusive to the kids, he is guaranteed 50% custody. Um, and so that's kind of where I'm at. Um, the only control he has over me is the financial, you know, litigation over this, and he is draining me on purpose. Just not complying with, you know, the discovery process that my attorneys are asking and just delaying court proceedings. I'm on month 9 of our separation and our divorce, and I'm— I have nothing. Um, so I don't know if it's just subtle.

Yeah, my question is, who— why are they not pushing harder on him to get what they need so that it's not dragging out? Because you said doing this on purpose. I mean, there's a point that it starts to become, he's not obeying the courts, right? When things are said and done. So what, I'm curious what your lawyers are saying.

Right. And they see it all the time. Unfortunately, it's not unique, especially with high-level business people and people in power with money. They ask, his team and him ask for extensions. And just basically my attorney has to file motions of over-promotion to get in front of the judge to mediate. But as I'm sure a lot of people know, this is such a lengthy process and I'm already $50,000 in.

Are you not entitled to— what's the divorce law in Nevada? Are you entitled to half of his money?

I signed a prenup. Um, he is 15 years older than me. Um, we had a baby out of wedlock, or we weren't married yet, and so I signed my life away to ensure that our family stays together. Okay. And, um, he comes from a Middle Eastern background, so being— quitting my job and staying home to raise kids was very important.

I gotcha. Okay. Okay. Tell me the numbers again. I just wanna make sure I, I heard correct. You said you started with $70,000 and what do you have left? $20,000. $20,000. Okay. I'm glad I clarified that. Uh, and what are you doing for work? You said you've been going through this for 9 months. Uh, In that 9 months, what's your life looked like work-wise?

Yeah, I've picked up within the 9 months, I was just doing side gigs, you know, part-time with a catering company friend, and then like DoorDash and Uber Eats to help pay some of these litigation fees. And now I luckily was able to get a full-time job with a home builder here in Las Vegas.

How much will you be making?

Um, it's sales-based, but I get a base pay of $60, um, and can earn upwards to $150.

Oh, fabulous, Courtney! That's amazing.

And what is—

what happens to the kids during the day?

Um, so when they're in my— right now we have a temporary custody order. He is— he does have 50%. Okay. Um, and when they're with me, I'm luckily enough to have my parents help watch them. Okay.

Um, I was going to ask about family. Um, do you— I just want to make sure you have some people in your corner that you're getting, if nothing else, emotional support from.

Absolutely. I'm very blessed. Good, good.

Well, you called in with two moms. And girl, I'd fight like hell for my kids. I know, that's right. For their health, if it was a health situation, I'm doing anything for my kids. Yes, ma'am. If it's a situation of, yeah, anything around— if you feel like they're in danger in any level, "Level, I'm fighting." So, that's what I would be doing. And we can worry about the money on the other end of it. But I also will say this with the asterisk. Because of his, gosh, power, whatever it all is, I don't want you dragging, for your sake too, dragging this on for 3 years.

And for the kids' sake.

And for the kids' sake, right? Like that, and not even from the money side, but just for you, right? And moving on with your life and starting to rebuild Courtney, right? And who you're gonna be in this next chapter of your life. So, yeah, so I don't know if there's a time limit. I don't know if you've had anyone that's walked through something like this that you're close with, but you know what I'm saying? Like, so I say all of that, like my mom heart is just like, "I am gonna be kicking down doors." But then on the other end, I'm like, but I also, want to be realistic about this. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And I just wanna ask, where'd your lawyer come from? Was this somebody highly recommended? Was this just somebody you found on Google? How'd you find your lawyer?

Um, it was a, it was a recommended lawyer. Um, extremely successful lawyer. Um, wonderful, wonderful, uh, review, um, not reviews, but just people in my life that know him. Um, that means that comes with a pricey, you know, price tag for sure. Yeah. But he is a very extremely reputable lawyer here in town.

Okay. And is he mean? Oh, um, cause I'm like, I feel like you need somebody who is gonna go hard. Yeah, he's very hard.

Um, okay. No, but at the end of the day, I just feel like sometimes with these lawyers, it's a business to them. I mean, every email I send is $400, every phone call is $600. So, you know, he's great in that aspect and he's really focusing because I won't get anything, right? As far as assets, division of property, nothing. Uh, child support, 18 years. Exactly. So you have 18 years of child support that this is worth fighting for because you know, it's— he's a multi-millionaire, um, and, you know, if it can change— I, I currently get $1,000 a month from him, and if I can get up to, you know, towards $6,000 to $8,000 a month—

see, this is, this is so crazy. Wow, this is so crazy. I'm sorry you're going through this. I really am. Thank you. I really am. Yeah, I, I'd be going to the mat on this. I'd go as, as long as you can. And I agree with Rachel. I think there's probably— and I think that'll be revealed to you if, if it comes to that point. I pray it doesn't. I, I like to think that who people are truly shows itself. And that would be my prayer, is that who this guy is is shown to the, the judges and shown to all who are involved. He's clearly making this difficult. And to me, that is such a red flag when somebody is intentionally trying to make things difficult on Mm-hmm.

The nice parties.

And on the children. Like, is that right? Yeah, that's right. Really the person that the children should be with, that they're intentionally causing dissension. But I, I hate that this is happening to you. Yeah.

But Courtney, you're amazing. You're an amazing mom. You took an extremely brave, vulnerable, scary step, um, to go out on your own and knowing that you only had so much and you're gonna be fighting your way. And let me tell you, your kids. Are— that, that's the example that's set in front of them is you. And they're— and they are, um, they're lucky to have you. So girl, keep fighting. Call us back if you need us. And, um, man, yeah, again, we are so, so sorry.

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So my husband and I, we bring in right around $32,000 a year. We rent, our rent just went up from $850 to $1,250. $1,000 a month. I bring in roughly about $1,500 a month gross before— with Spark, doing Walmart Spark. And I also have— I'm an artist and I bring in roughly on the low end $400 a month, high end $600.

We just barely are getting by. Was that $2,000 total, Rebecca? Your art, it So was the $400 and the $1,500 was your Spark Walmart delivery? Yep. Okay, so $2,000. What's he do? What's your husband do?

He's in construction, so on a good week, if he is allowed to work overtime, he can bring in like, his checks will usually be about $1,400. That's with the overtime. If not, it's maybe $1,100 every 2 weeks. How long has he been doing that? Um, he's been with the company only about a year. Okay. Um, we moved, we moved up to South Dakota roughly 2 and a half years ago from Missouri. Um, because God told us to move up here. Um, and it just, uh, it's great. There's no state taxes up here, but like, like everywhere else in the country, rent is just outrageous.

No, I'm gonna go ahead and say rent's not the problem. Here.

Uh, $850 is fabulous rent, and honestly, no, that's fine, but it went up to $1,250, right?

But $1,250 is fabulous rent. $1,250 is not bad. I think the issue is— I'm not going to say I think, I know the issue is it's an income issue. $32,000, $32,000 for two adults working, it's going to be almost impossible to survive on that. And that's what you're feeling, that's the wait. It's kind of like the walls are closing in on you, I think. And you, you have every right to feel that way. So what Rachel and I are gonna try to do is help you and hopefully inspire you guys to see what more can you do to bring in a stable income. Because, right, to your point, it's very tough to get ahead when you don't have margin. And also to your point, there's variable expenses that have the ability to go up and you can't control that. And so the only part that you can control is your contribution. And so let's talk about that a little bit. You said you're an artist and you said you're doing Walmart Spark. If we could snap our fingers right now and it's 3 years from now or 5 years from now and you're doing exactly what it is that you love, what would that be?

That would be my art. Which is what? I do watercolor painting and I've started like a greeting card business and I sell my cards like at various little gift shops and cafes and I would love to, I would, I would love to like get into something bigger. Maybe, maybe not like Hallmark, but like all my cards are like Christian-focused. I put scripture on them, uh-huh. And like people love them. And, and the other thing is I paint each one separately, so you're never gonna get like the exact same card twice in a row.

So you're an artist, you're artistic, you love people, you like encouraging. I'm hearing all these things that you love to do. What I would love for you is to continue doing that thing that gives you a lot of joy. But in the meantime, I also wanna find a way to use those same skill sets in a full-time job. That's actually, that's not a side hustle, but a, a full-time, uh, money-paying regularly job. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so we're gonna give you Find the Work You're Wired to Do because those jobs exist out there. I think you're just narrowing your focus to, I can only paint. Yeah.

How old are you, Rebecca? How old are you guys?

Um, I'm 49 and he's 48.

Do you guys have kids?

Um, I have a child from a previous marriage that wants nothing to do with me. Okay. So I pay, I pay like child support every month, and that's, that's just like only interaction I get. So, okay.

So yeah, so your second, kind of your second chapter in life. Yeah, what's it going to be?

And I, and I, and I, and I feel it's just like, you know, we're both getting up to 50. We have no, um, IR— like, we don't have any, um, retirement saved up other than like what he possibly— okay, Rebecca, I'm gonna say something.

I think you just need to go get a job, a J-O-B.

I think you need to go work at a— be a receptionist at a dentist office there in Sioux Falls. I think you need to go work a receptionist at a hotel. You guys are 50. Yeah, time's ticking. You don't have time. You don't, you know, and I know you love the art stuff and do it on the side, cuz I would love for something like that to take off. And in the meantime, obviously, be dreaming about what that full-time career could be that you love, exactly what Dave was saying. But right now, you know, you're not two 22-year-olds, you know, trying to figure it out.

And I'll be honest, I thought you were at first, but your voice sounds young and the way you were talking, I was like, "Oh, these cats are, they're in their 30s. But when I hear that you're 49 and in the 50s, Rachel is exactly right.

And husband, same thing. Let's get on it, dude. You know what I mean? I mean, and I know maybe you've tried. I'm not sure. But I do want you guys— I want you in full— I want you in careers. You know, we just talked to a single mom who's going through a divorce last segment. And she just found a job making $60 commission sales up to what— you know, I mean, I don't know what you can plug into, but we gotta kind of get this gravy train moving. What do you attribute this to?

I don't try to hold on to this and make this as an excuse, so don't take it that way. Okay. But I am on the spectrum. And so being in like a really busy place with a lot of people, that's like shuts me down. Okay. And so that's why I—

But what about work from home? Work from home, I wonder. Like customer service, call service. I'm gonna tell you, let me tell you about this because this is not the be-all end-all, but it is something that exists out there. When I was first getting started in my career, this is kind of a side hustle, but it's a way to start getting you some experience. There's a website, it's called Arise, A-R-I-S-E, and you can go on there and it's all customer service jobs. All you need is a computer and a little phone headset and you can pick, you can work for AAA, you can work for Home Depot, you can work for an electric company. And it's, you, you can make, you know, $20 an hour just doing that and you can pick your hours. And so start with something like that where at least we're getting our hours up. Mm-hmm. And that's something you can do alongside all the other things you're doing. So let's start stacking these options together and create, because what I want from both of you, I want you both making $30,000. Let's start there. I make $30,000, you make $30,000.

Now we make $60,000. And then we go, I make $40,000, you make $40,000. Now we make $80,000, and let's stair-step these goals. But I really think you and your husband need to ride it out.

I mean, if both of you did that, if you did that and you did 20 hours a week, 40 hours a week, you'd be bringing home around $36,000. Yes. And if he did it too, bada bing, bada boom.

Just right there.

We have $70,000 coming in, Rebecca.

Promise me you'll go on that site.

$70,000. That's wild. Do you agree with me, Rebecca?

That's wild.

You just went from $32,000, you both working full-time, time to 7.

Like, um, we had savings saved up to like 10 grand, but, uh, I want more than that. Really bad. I do. I'm just saying, like, we did have savings saved up. Um, last year I was in a really bad car accident, hit a deer.

Okay, yeah, I hear you. I totally hear you, and I want to be, um, respectful for sure, but I also— you called and we want to give you tough love because we got about 10 seconds. So I just wanna tell you, you can do better than $10 grand, Rebecca, you really can. You guys gotta just churn out some hours for 2 or 3 years. Be tired at the end of the day. Real tired. But you guys got this. I think that's your way out. And you guys get to choose if you wanna do it or not. And life is hard, for sure. We all have different challenges and things that we face, but you got this, Rebecca. You guys can do this. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruze. If you're working the Baby Steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And healthcare is one of the biggest expenses in most families' budgets. And that is why I recommend that you check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Ministries. CHM isn't insurance, it's a health cost-sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills, and they've been serving Christians since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month, and here's why that matters.

If you are paying more than you need to for healthcare, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your next financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live. Y'all, a A lot of families find CHM gives them more room in the budget. That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org/budget and promo code Ramsey. Up next, we have Brianna, or Brianna maybe, from Austin. Okay, tell me how you pronounce your name because I don't want to get it wrong the whole call. You're good, it's Brianna. Brianna, perfect. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Um, so me and my husband have been trying to have a baby the last 2 years, but we decided, uh, discovered that we have to do IUI if we're going it. Um, we have about $90,000 in consumer debt. Um, the majority of that is student loans, and we just kind of want to see if we're on the right timeline to start stork mode.

How do you pay for the IUI?

Um, so we want to cash flow it, um, it's like kind of in the middle of the debt payoff. So our plan was to pay off all of our credit cards and our car loan pause the debt snowball, cash flow the IUI each month, which is about $2,500 per cycle. Okay. Um, and then once that's successful, start the student loan payments because I will graduate on the first week of September, so my payments won't officially start until 6 months after.

Okay. How much was— when you said pay off the credit cards and the car first, what is— what are totals?

Um, we have one credit card which is about $14,000, our car loan is $6,100, and then we have one more credit card that's about $1,000.

Okay, was that included in the $90,000 or is that additional?

That's included. Included. Okay, gotcha.

Okay, uh, and why did you— what caused you to choose those three kind of arbitrarily?

Like, what's the thought behind that? Um, just because the minimum payments are the highest with the interest rate and stuff, and my school payments aren't mandatory yet. Right now I've just been making, um, payments.

Are you still actively taking student loans? Uh, no. Okay. Okay. And when do you finish again?

Tell us again when you're done. First week of September. Okay.

Uh, I love the fact that you're gonna cash flow IUI. I, I think that that's fabulous. And you guys are already married, right? Just making sure. Okay. I, I don't have a problem with this plan. I think the moment that you are pregnant is the moment that you push pause on your debt payoff. The moment that you go to the doctor and they're like, yeah, it's, it's, it's positive. That's the moment that you can kind of push pause and start stacking up a bunch of money, um, for stork mode. And that money, I mean, hopefully everything is healthy and everything goes well. And then you'll have this big pile of money that's there, uh, after the baby's born and everybody goes home healthy that you can put towards this debt. How much margin do you guys have every month, uh, to work with?

About $3,000. Um, my husband's a firefighter, so some months he gets— 6 months out of the year he gets 3 checks, and then 6 months out of the year he gets 2 checks that month. Okay.

And when do you guys want to start this?

Um, our credit cards and car loan should all be paid off by January with our timeline. Okay, gotcha.

And then you would just use that $3,000 of margin to cash flow, maybe throw $500 at the debt as you're going? Yeah. Okay. And why are y'all waiting till January? I'm just curious. You just want to get some debt out? Is that a priority before you start?

So when I give birth, I want to stay at home, and so then we'll be living off of one income, and I just don't think we can afford all of the loan, the credit card payments and student loans and the car loan all on one income.

That's good. Have you budgeted it out detailed?

Uh, yeah, we have EveryDollar.

We have an EveryDollar budget. Okay, but the, the future, I mean, have you done a detailed budget of what you think the future will look like on the one paycheck, the one salary?

Kind of sorting that out today. Um, this is just kind of our plan that we've been working out this week. Um, I haven't taken an official look at it, but we should be able to live just fine on food, water, shelter, transportation, and then have some leftover.

What's your degree in? Zoology. Zoology? Yeah. Okay. Did you have a plan of what you wanted to do? Did you, when you started school?

Yeah, I wanted to be a zookeeper, and that's what I'm doing right now. I've been up on one year. Okay, okay, gotcha.

Um, yeah, my, my advice on this would be to run out the budget and really look at it and make sure that detail for detail, you actually know what the money's gonna be. Because I will say, Rachel, there is something to be said about having the right amount of margin. 'Cause if you are staying home with kids, you don't wanna just be home in the house with kids. You wanna be able to go and take 'em to the zoo or go and do, you know, fun things. So I would suggest doing that. And I'll just throw out here, you know, the way that we teach debt is to do the debt snowball method. You may find that for people who really want to complete paying off all of their debt, the snowball method is better, which is you listing them smallest to largest by balance. Mm-hmm. And then paying minimum payments on everything, but putting that extra margin, in your case $3,000, to the smallest debt. You may find that if it's a list of, you know, I'm sure these student loans are broken up into smaller pieces. So you may find that if it's a list of 7 or 8 debts, you can knock out half of them and that feels really great.

And you like the feeling of that momentum. Mm-hmm. I also wanted to ask, how old are you?

You guys? Uh, he just turned 24 a couple days ago and I'm 23.

Okay. Um, yeah, and let me just also say this. I'm just going to say this. I'm not saying it's not your choice because it totally is, and I love babies. It's never going to be easier to pay off debt than it is today. Yeah. So let me just throw that out there. Once, once little, little butts come into the situation, it gets different. So let me just throw that out there.

Um, Um, if we were to just wait and just pay off everything, I think we would be done in 2 years or less. Um, the key, the only thing, my husband's not on course with starting the student loans because we're not required to for 6 months. So he's wanted to knock out all the credit card and the car loan. Um, so I haven't been able to get him on board with that because several of the student loans are under $3,000.

You may not be required to, but I would look and see if they're subsidized or unsubsidized because if they're unsubsidized, they're subsidized. Okay, but even still, what an opportunity. It's almost like when we had those paused, right? There was no interest accruing. So, view that as, this is an opportunity to pay off our debt without interest versus, well, we don't have to touch them, so let's not touch them. I would—

Yeah, yeah, and I, and just because of your age, and again, everyone's value, you know, I don't wanna ever say to someone like, don't have babies by any means, 'cause this may be y'all's choice. But I would be curious because you just, and a part of me is like, oh man, you just finished your degree. Degree. Get in there. And I don't know if like you get a raise with this degree or not, or if you would have had this job regardless of the degree. But a part of me was like, if I'm paying off these student loans about something I just got, I don't know, there's like a mental game there for me that I think there would be like an extra push to be like, you know what? I'm gonna work my butt off for another 9 months extra than what I was planning. And I say that partly because you're still young. Young. And I would just get, man, the freedom there of not having to feel pressure to work if you do get pregnant. And since it is a situation that you're having to do this IUI, you wanna be extra protective, right?

That cautiousness in the pregnancy. I'm gonna say, "When it happens," not "if." I pray when it happens for you. I don't know, just some thoughts to kick around. But I think also, you guys paying off the loans that you talked about paying off, paying off and then cash flowing it, which I so appreciate. And then having still that momentum after it works to knock out as much as you can. Yes, ma'am. Before baby comes. It will only help you from the math perspective. So that's always helpful. But yeah, that's what's hard is money. That's like debt specifically. That's why we always said the borrower's slave. When you're in debt, it just limits your choices. It creates extra hurdles in your your life. You have to then say, "Can I stay home? I wanna be a stay-at-home mom. Do we have the ability to?" We have these pay— like, right? It just, it puts you in this like bondage cycle that you're not, you don't have autonomy. You're not the owner of your life at that point. All these banks and student loans are kind of directing that. And that's part of what sucks about debt.

I'm like, it is what it is. You can get your credit card airline points, all you people, but this girl's got what, $14,000 in credit card debt? It didn't help her. Like, didn't help It's causing her to have to wait. Yes, yes, like all of it. I'm like, it's just, there is such wisdom, you guys, in this debt-free living that you own your choices in your life, and it's a beautiful, and you sleep good at night, you know, knowing that.

Yeah, and the sooner that you start that lifestyle, just the better off you are. I mean, when people call in here and they were blessed that their parents understood the Baby Steps and they start their life life off, no debt. I mean, they're just on such a smooth path going forward. And at 23, they really have the ability to create that for themselves here in the next 18 to 24 months.

Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. Yeah, there's a, a truth in changing your family tree. So you parents out there with young kids, as you're working this, your kids are seeing this and you're setting them up for a better life, not just from a numbers perspective, but a behavioral perspective as well. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze here with Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions about life and money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225, uh, right now. I know right now the phone lines are packed, but give us a call and maybe we can get you in, maybe this show or later this week. Jade, I think we're hosting again together. Yes. We'll be around, people. We'll be around. All right, let's go to Charlie in Omaha. Hi, Charlie. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you. Absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

Yeah, I just, over the last few years, I've been building a relationship with the neighbor and they're kind of living like normal people, broke basically. And I'm just wondering if you guys got any tips on how to like introduce them to Ramsey Solutions universe and the Baby Steps without overstepping boundaries, I guess.

How do you know that they're broke? Do they tell you?

Um, they kind of tell me, yeah. And then Uh, well, yeah, they basically tell me.

So you guys are talking about money, like, in some of your just like everyday conversations, hanging out, and they'll talk about their stress, or—

yeah, it seems to come up that they're stressed, uh, fairly often. And then, uh, their 11-year-old actually slipped up and basically said he helps pay for groceries sometimes to me the other day.

Yeah. Are they saying it like when they're saying it, they're like asking you for help, or they're just shooting the breeze and just mentioning things?

Kind of just shooting the breeze and mentioning things. So that's the thing, I don't even know if they want help.

Got you.

Well, if y'all are that casual in conversation, I think if— I mean, I know there's like parenting, you know, experts that I love or whatever, and when a friend's just talking about that, I'm like, well, have you listened to, you know, so-and-so podcast? It's so "Good," it's not threatening. It's like, "I'm excited about it 'cause I love it, and I want them to know." So, it's not like you're judging them or anything, but I just wonder if you threw it out like, "Oh my gosh, well, have you listened to The Ramsey Show? Or have you ever read any of, you know, Dave Warshaw, Rachel Cruze, or Dave Ramsey's books? Like, you know, are you familiar with them?" I would just be curious what they would say.

Like, super light. Like, don't go— not even going into details, just like, "Oh man, yeah." Just like that.

Okay, yeah, just take it, yeah, super light. And I guess, uh, yeah, super light. And I say that because a couple of conversations, like, just throw it out there maybe the next couple times. And then—

no, no, no, keep it, keep it, keep it super light. And I'm saying this because— and, and you know who you are, I'm looking in the camera— our people, sometimes we go very strong in the paint. Yes. And it can be off-putting off-putting. And it's— we're doing it 'cause we're excited, and we really love this thing, and we feel like we have the winning lottery number, right? Like, we wanna share it. But sometimes, being too heavy-handed can make people be like, "What the heck is she is?" Don't be weird, Charli.

Sure.

So, just do exactly what Rachel said. Exactly, 'cause I don't think it can be better than that.

And then, let them run with it. Yeah, talk about it. And then, if you've done some stuff, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, I think I have." Like, "Oh, my gosh, I love it." "Because, you know, I've paid off debt and da-da-da." I don't know, if you have some story to share. Just a little something. And you're saying it because it's worked for you, you know? I would say the same thing with parenting. If like, "Oh my gosh, I finally learned like, you know, X, Y, and Z, 'cause so-and-so said it, and it was so helpful." And I don't know if that's helpful for you in your situation, but you know what I mean? It's very breezy. Breezy.

And when you say something that's kind of in line with what they're going through, that you've experienced, I think it also So kind of, oh, okay, we now we're talking for real. The empathy. Yeah. So I like that. I, I love that you're thinking about them in that way too. That's special.

Yeah. I've, I've tried to do it light a little bit over probably the last year or so. And so I, is there, oh, so you already did it? Ever a little, I mean, is there a little bit? Yeah. Is there ever a time where maybe it requires a little bit?

Tell us what you did. Tell us what you did first. So we know.

He said a shove?

Well, I mean, uh, they just, they bring it up, and so I'm like, well, have you— yeah, I mean, have you checked out, you know, Dave Ramsey helped me, you know? Yeah, you did. Yeah, you guys, you know, you guys need Dave Ramsey in your life for real. And, uh, just kind of throwing it out there. But then, uh, they, I don't— they kind of shrug it off. And who's that? I go, a guy who helped me get out of debt. And then I don't think they ever looked them up or looked up you guys, or, or I think you've done your part.

You've done your part then.

You've been breezy. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I don't think that they're interested in— yeah, any— you know what I mean? Like, there, there was no proactiveness.

Yeah, you can't make somebody interested. I know.

In, in this kind of— you can't make people change. Yeah. Um, because you want it for them, not just so that they're like, so that they listen to Ramsey. That's not the point. But the The point is, you want them to be helped. You know, you want them to have a plan and be in control of their money. And I think that's a beautiful desire, right? Because you see someone that's hurting and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like we have the prescription. We could help you." But doesn't seem like— yeah, it seems like you've been breezy about it and they haven't really picked up on it. So, I probably wouldn't push. No, I don't think there's a shove. Yeah, no shove. Unless they ask. If they start asking, they have opened that door and you can run right through it. That's true. Um, but I don't think they're asking.

Yeah, you know, they just kind of been— yeah, they just bring it up almost every time I see them, really, but they don't ever ask.

And well, and also, I, I will throw this out there, but you have— this is you discerning this. It also depends on your relationship and your personality, because if you— if on a scale from 1 to 10, you're like an 8 in friendship then I do think that there's the time where you can be like, "Now, hold on a second. I told you about Dave Ramsey, and you're still asking me about—" Right? That's my personality. I would have, you know— With good friends. With good friends. If you're an 8 or 9 on that scale, 100%. I'd be like, "Now, how many times are you gonna tell me about this? 'Cause I've already told you," right? But if you're like a 2 or 3 on the scale, I think you just let sleeping dogs lie. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of that earning the right to be heard kind of thing. So, but as you build relationship with them, and you know, and if you do get close enough closer in friendship because you guys get along and you have a lot in common. Then to Jade's point, that's right, it is true. It's like one of your best friends, and she— I'm like, girl, stop complaining, you gotta do something about it.

Yeah, what's going on? I have a feeling though you guys are just out washing the cars and you just, you know, speak to each other across the driveway or whatever.

Uh, yeah, that's kind of it. Yeah, so yeah, but, uh, I appreciate the information and a little bit of help here for sure.

Well, Charlie, I appreciate your your, uh, yeah, just your desire to even call and, and, and be concerned, right? Because I mean, that's a, that's a real thing.

Because here's the thing, and, and again, I look into the camera because there's folks that watch the show every day and still don't do the things that we're telling 'em.

That's right. So it's very hard.

The job we have is very hard to get people to commit to a process, especially a process that's gonna cause you maybe a little discomfort, maybe to embrace some ideas that are new for you, maybe to embrace a new philosophy with your your money, maybe to do something that you can't say today what the exact outcome is gonna be. You just have to trust a process. And we're telling you, "Hey, just do it. Just trust it." We know that it works. So, because we know the outcome is when you walk these Baby Steps, when you do the things that we're teaching, people go on. They don't just pay off their debt. Their relationships are better. They have more peace. And yeah, they build wealth. And so, I mean, what can you say, Rachel?

It's a byproduct, I know. But it is amazing. When you get one part of your life your life under control, and we see this all the time, people's, to your point, relationships start to be better. You start to be more intentional about that. People's health changes. Yes. People lose weight. I mean, genuinely, like it is wild, the things that happen when you become an intentional person, and your money may be the springboard for you when it comes to this stuff. So it is, yeah, it's important. But yeah, thanks again, Charlie, for calling. Hope that helped.

Hey, George Campbell here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what? Normal isn't so great when it comes to your job either. Normal is staying in a job you hate, dreading Mondays, and working for people you don't even like. Sound familiar? Well, the good news is you can break free from normal because Ramsey Solutions is hiring, and we refuse to settle for the ordinary. In fact, we are anything but normal, and we are proud of it. And right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. So head over to ramseysolutions.com/careers Careers and apply today.

The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Why Refi. If you keep putting off dealing with your private student loans, now is the time. Why Yrefy helps borrowers explore low fixed-rate financing options and affordable payment plans. Go to yrefy.com/ramsey. That's yrefy.com/ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Alrighty, my, uh, today's question comes from Claire in South Dakota. She says, my husband and I are 27 and started our family earlier than most of our friends, so we were on the receiving end of wedding and baby gifts several years years ago. Now our social circle is reaching those milestones and we're struggling with what is reasonable financially. We're debt-free and genuinely want to be generous. However, we have financial goals and feel like we're constantly blowing our budget. Is there a percentage of income or a sinking fund amount you recommend for gifts and celebrations? How do we scale back spending without feeling "Okay, not gonna lie, I actually thought this was going in a different direction. I thought you were gonna say, you know, we were on the receiving end, but now we're getting out of debt and it's hard to budget for these." But you're debt-free. And part of, I do wanna say, just for anybody who's listening, and it's good for us to do this, this matters because Baby Steps 1 through 3 are very intense. This is, we're pulling back on everything. We're, you know, you know, we're sacrificing not just in our own lives, but other people around us generally tend to feel the sacrifice too.

We don't do as much for Christmas. We might, may not travel for family outings as much. All of those things in Baby Step 1, 2, and 3, because we're getting our $1,000 saved, we're paying off consumer debt, and then we're saving up 3 to 6 months of expenses. That's how that works. But then when you cross over into Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6 that people do simultaneously, you're investing 15%, you're putting a little in kids' college, and you're putting extra on your debt. On your house, that's when we say now's the time that we can start being a little more generous. We can start spending more on the things that we enjoy doing. We can upgrade vehicles. We can, you know, whatever these other financial goals are. So I have to believe that your other financial goals are tied up in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. That being said, generosity should always be kind of part of that. Now, most of us, not most of us, many of us throw our generosity to the local church and we're like, yeah, I'm doing my 10%, I'm doing my tithe. That's good. But I do feel like some of relation— some of generosity is relational, right?

I'm going to the party, I pick up a bottle of wine for the host. I'm going out with my friends, we're all ordering appetizers for the table. Like, right? There's a certain amount of your own purse strings that you open up when you're in relationship. So my buddy, my coworker's having a baby, and that's my friend. Yeah, I'm gonna give her a gift because that's part of our relationship. And And so, in this stage of your life, I think that you can participate in that stage of the relationship because you've got the money to do that. Now, the question is, how much should we do? And I think that that's up to you, but I wanted to lay that foundation so that you don't get stingy, is basically what I was trying to do.

Yeah, that's a great point.

No, that's so true. And I think it's okay to look ahead and be like, "Okay, am I throwing the baby shower?" "this is how much, you know, I can contribute this much." I don't know, like, think of all the ways that this generosity can play out. It may not just be in a specific gift. It may be through other things that you're doing.

Your house is hosting it.

Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah, so, but yeah, I would say, I don't think you will ever regret being generous. I'll just say that much.

And pouring into relationships.

You don't have to go get the $1,000 stroller they registered for, or anything like that. That. But just, you know, that the people were good to you. And there's just a little bit of like, "Hey, I'm gonna live my life with open hands a little bit." And yeah, this is a— gosh, we went through that, the wedding season. Everyone's getting married. I will say, yeah. Everybody's having— I mean, it is. It is a— every day, you're getting an invite of some kind of shower or something's happening. There is that season of life. And then, it goes away, right? And then, you're okay. So, I don't know. I would say, you won't regret being generous.

And I will say, cuz we've talked about this before, Rachel, um, the wedding part, if you're like the— in the bridal party and there's all of those things. Now I will say, you do have to know when to say when on some of that, because it can get— that can get quite overwhelming. That gets out of control.

But, uh, all the trips and everything they do, I mean, it's wild, wild. So yeah, that, that is one that you're like, I need to— I may have to rein in some of that. That's That's fine. All right, let's go to Mark in Roanoke. Hi Mark, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm privileged to be on the show. My wife is a huge fan, so she's gonna flip when she finds out that I actually got on the show.

Oh my gosh, I can't wait to know why you called.

My wife and I are in a, I'll say, a slight disagreement over a very large purchase of a new boat. So I'll go over our financial situation real quick, and then you guys can— and my plan for purchasing it, uh, and then you can give me your opinion. Okay. So we own a house on a lake in Virginia that's worth $1.25 million. It's paid off, uh, between an annuity and my Social Security. We have a guaranteed income of $100,000 per $100,000 per year until we both pass away. My wife is currently working. She makes $65,000 a year. However, I'm trying to get her to retire in the next 18 months. Okay. We have IRAs worth $1.8 million that made $300,000 in the last 12 months. So the boat that I want to purchase is, be around $130,000. $60,000, and I'm going to need a new truck early next year. My existing truck has 210,000 miles on it, so I'm anticipating that I'll be replacing that, and so that'd be $65,000. Okay. So we have a Roth IRA of $200,000, and I was going to cash that in, purchase the boat and the truck for cash.

Do you have any other cash?

Do you have any not— like, do you have any liquid cash? Well, $20,000.

Okay.

Um, I mean, I think you can afford it. Yes. Now, I— the cash position makes me a little nervous. How old are you guys?

I'm 65 and my wife is 61.

Okay, so you're able to pull money out of the IRA for things. I'm just thinking this boat, which I, you're probably wishing Dave was on because he's the boat guy. And, but when these nice boats break, like a nice car, they're expensive to fix and all, you know what I mean? It's just another maintenance thing to think through and have to wish.

We have, we currently have a boat that's, it's a 2000.

Okay, so you're going to upgrade. Okay.

Well, can I ask why you're looking to drain the Roth instead of the other? I— why wouldn't you take the money from the other IR— the traditional IRA?

Uh, because of taxes. Okay, but you're gonna have our income's $165,000, so if I took $100,000, uh, $200,000 out of traditional IRA, um, I'd have to pay taxes on that. You would. What You would.

I'm just thinking you've got a lot of money in traditional accounts that's probably going to want to be converted at some point anyway, and you've got very little in Roth. I almost would want to keep that growing as it's growing tax-free. And then if you can handle the— do you see what I'm saying? That— and I would run— I'd probably run it over with an advisor, but that's kind of what I was thinking. If you don't have a strategy for moving some of that $1.8 million into converting that into Roth Roth funds, that might be something to kind of help that process ease about. That was just something I thought of.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so the way we look at it is that anything with motors and wheels is no more than half of your annual take-home pay. So you guys are not working, so it's a little bit of a different— so you have the $65,000 coming in from your wife. You have $100,000 coming from the annuity and Social Security. And then if you wanted to count the $300,000 from the IRA as quote unquote income for the year. It's what your investments made. Not quite, but we can be a little bit, you know, squishy on that. I mean, technically, you're under it. Yeah. So I mean, like from all the math perspective, Mark, yeah, I think you're good to go.

All right, great.

You got the green light. Captain Mark. All right, thanks, appreciate it. Heading on the lake in his new boat. But think about the truck. Maybe you get a used truck, Mark. Maybe lighten the load a little with the wife. She's nervous about it.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent. That's ramseysolutions.com/agent.

We wish we could get to every call and every question on the show. So if you do have a money question that you want answered the Ramsey way, make sure to head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our official AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. So you'll get the, same answer that you'd get if you were here on the show. This is one thing, Jade, I put this up in my stories a couple days ago just to remind people, like, hey, click here if you guys have questions, because we get so many DMs about people's specific situations. And I had more people respond talking about how much they use it and they like love it. So, so make sure to check it out. It's great. Go to, again, ramseysolutions.com to ask your question, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to Mary in Kansas City. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi ladies, thanks so much for taking my call this afternoon.

Absolutely, how can we help?

I have a topic within my marriage, the ultimate dream home and how to spend our life savings on a house that will bring fulfillment to us both. We're pretty different people. He's very very much a minimalist and a saver. And I gave up my career to become a stay-at-home mom. I moved to this tiny house in the country, got rid of credit cards, sold all my things, definitely all in on my life with my husband. But we have really been saving the last 6 years. We are working really hard. We've paid off every debt that we have. We have saved our goal amount of money to buy with cash, which is $100,000. And yeah, I'm really, really proud of us. We've worked hard together. I am too. We also have paid off our home that we're living in for around $200,000 equity in our home. But now that we're looking at what to do next, we have two kids and we're like ready to do the dream home. But like I said, he's a minimalist and very, very frugal. And I'm like, I really just want the dream home. But I do want— What's the dream home cost?

Cost?

I— we are having conversations around like the budget and the size and whether we build on some land. But to be honest, I don't feel like I have all that much weight in the decision. And I think that part of that is due to our traditional roles in the marriage. He does have his name on everything. It's all like his accounts. And so that makes me feel Yeah, some type of way. I would think so.

It sounds like you have yielded to a lot of what he has wanted, not necessarily all that— maybe you've appreciated the outcome and you appreciate the principles, but the way it's been done feels like it was more of a, "You don't really have an option or a say." And then you get to this point on the other side of it, and you still feel like, in your marriage, that your voice is not appreciated or wanted, or your opinions aren't looked for. And, you know, there's not excitement behind what you have dreamed about and want?

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's finally time to kind of like splurge a little on a home that makes us happy, but he wants a lot less than I do. And I feel like it's finally time that my opinion should matter because, you know, I'm home with the kids. And I just wonder, are there like guidelines or maybe advice that you can give us to bring alignment toward our shared goal? Um, I trust my husband and I want to follow his lead, but I just wonder, like, maybe something I'm—

well, something I'm worried about that I hear you saying, it's almost kind of like you've— I, I bided my time, I, I did my— I, do you know what I mean? Like, I've earned the right for my opinion to be heard is almost what I'm feeling here. I, I, I did all the sacrifice, I stayed home with the kids, I did all this stuff, and now is my time. And I would just like— no, it's the exact opposite. Not selfish marriage at all. I would be saying it should have been like that from day one. You don't have to earn a seat at the table in your own marriage. You are the table. You know what I'm saying? Like, you set the table. So, of course, you're at the table.

You know what I'm saying? You're the other adult in the relationship.

Yeah, and it should have been 50/50 from the jump. And so, now, you're in a situation, which is not gonna be easy. You've gotta untangle that and right the ship a little bit. A little bit. And the question that I have for you is, let's pretend that you came to your husband tonight when things are not heated, when you're not in the midst of an argument, when you're not in the midst of a debate, and you just came to him and said, "You know, I'd love to have a discussion with you about something I've been thinking about." And you kind of start to tell him kind of what you've told us on the phone, which is, "You know, I think that I've relinquished some of my opinions, and I've let go of some of the things that I feel are important." 'And I've kind of backed away from those in favor of doing what you wanna do. And I kind of regret doing that.' And going forward, 'I don't wanna do that anymore. And here's how it's made me feel.' Yes.

'And I'm gonna start saying things that are probably uncomfortable because they haven't been voiced.' Yeah. And you can do this all very kindly, Mary. You know, this doesn't have to be abrupt. But you guys have set a marriage, and in the name of— if I can say this to you, because because I live in the South, in the name of a biblical, quote-unquote— Submission. —role. And what it ends up doing, what was supposed to be seen as a good thing has been taken and twisted to where you, Mary, don't have— what doesn't feel like value. And you're the other adult in your relationship. And you can still respect and love your husband. Your husband, but he also can love and respect you. Scripture, as much, says, "Submit to one another, unto yourselves." Like, I mean, so, I would— not to sit here and get in a theological debate, by any means, but there is harm— I can't— in doing this show, specifically, these calls we get in, there's a pattern that we've seen. And I just wanna encourage you, Mary, that you can be an incredible wife and love your husband, and you guys can have a great marriage.

But that can only be done if two people are participating in making life choices to create a life that you guys love together. And it sounds like he's been the one making all the decisions. And you're doing it in the name of leading, but he is not holding up his end of the deal of looking at his wife and sacrificing himself and saying, "What does my wife want?" "Ja." So, it is more— it's a marriage dynamic that I don't know if there's a great counselor or marriage therapist, maybe who is a believer, but maybe challenges a little bit of some of the ways that this has been done, that would be really great to sit and talk to. Because I think out of a healthy marriage, this question can be answered. And I'm not sure you're gonna get to a point where you— both see eye to eye on a home purchase when this has been the pattern of your— Yeah, of the marriage. Does that make sense? Yeah. So, it actually could be— this could be seen as such a gift, Mary, that you guys like actually have a chance to look up and be like, "Oh, wow, we have gotten into this cycle." And Winston and I have gotten into cycles of marriage before, and we look up and it's been years, and you're like, "How did we get into this cycle?" And you kind of have to break it.

But for the health and the beauty and the good of your marriage, marriage. So, I would say that, but I know you didn't call in for marriage advice. You called in about the home. So, I would say, if it's within the Ramsey, obviously, paying cash 100% is like amazing, but we know that's not realistic for everyone. And if you don't follow that, follow the premise that you guys put down, I would say for you now, 20%, and that the payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. You could, you know, there's some wiggle room there if you guys, if you do want to look at other homes. So there, I'll give you that permission, Mary, that you can dream a little if you want. If it's beyond that $300,000, the equity in the house and the $100,000 that you guys have saved. But I, and you know, and you may settle on the, or settle, not settling. You may choose the $300,000, which is totally fine. I just want you at the end of the day to feel like you, your opinion is valid, and Mary, that— and that he's excited to hear it.

You know what I mean? That he like, wants to know his wife and wants to know what makes you excited. And he sacrifices himself and his wants and desires for you. Thank you. Yeah. But that's— I know that's a loaded ask that we just gave you.

It was right, though. Sometimes, you need somebody who's outside of the situation, 'cause you can't see the forest for the trees. You need somebody else to be able to look and go, wait a second, that doesn't, that's not right.

That's not what it was supposed, that's not what, we'll just go back, that was not what that scripture was set up to do. No. Yep, but you got two, you got two Ys behind the sesh, Mary. So call us back, run the show later this week.

Yes, tell us how it goes.

¡Hey guys!

Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with access Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our Scripture of the Day comes from Jeremiah 26:14, "As for me, I am in your hands. Do with me whatever you think is good and right." Next is from Corrie ten Boom. She said, "Hold everything in your hands lightly, otherwise "Sometimes it hurts when God pries your fingers open." I know, that's right, Corrie. I love Corrie Ten Boom. Oh, she's amazing. When I saw that come up for the quote of the day, I was like, "I love her." She's amazing. Amazing woman, she was. All right, let's head to Jessica, and she is in Denver. Hi, Jessica, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely, how can we help?

Hi, so, I had a question concerning financial secrecy and mine with my husband. We've been married for 10 years, and I found out a lot of different things that have been kept from me and some finances that have been lied about. And my question is, is how do you go forward with someone when finances are extremely not agreed on and when they're challenged by the wife that, that they are lied about? Um, and so I just, I'm wondering if there's some guidelines, um, when it comes to financial things that have not been been agreed on. And there's been a lot of mistrust placed because of that.

What did you find out and how did you find it out?

I have a Robinhood account that was— that he made in my name and without you knowing— with me knowing, he said that he had had his other one shut down. And I didn't— I didn't ask about that. But He made one in my name and then he was trading on it, had a lot of money put into that account from a savings account that's not in my name, it's in his, um, ended up losing that money, um, and then ended up charging it. $11,000, um, then ended up charging it. This is without me knowing. Okay. Um, then ended up charging it back, um, called his bank and charged it back, and then when I saw that, the account was shut down immediately by him. And I questioned that and said, hey, you know, this is not making sense of what went on. At that point, I was lied to that and was told that someone else had logged into the account and taken all that money. Um, of course, a big fight ensued because I, I did not believe that. Um, and so at the end of this, you know, we, we went through, you know, a whole long fight about it, and Um, he did eventually tell the truth that he did do that.

Um, what other— what other things does he lie about? Because usually you, unless someone has a pattern of lying, you usually tend to believe them when they tell you things the first time. So what else does he lie about?

Um, about 4 years ago, we had gone on vacation, um, charged it to a credit card that we were going to pay off totally fine. We had the money to do it. Um, a day after we got back from the vacation, he texted me and said, hey, you know, if you see a chargeback for a Walmart, um, chargeback, I called the bank because I saw something that wasn't unauthorized. Well, the next thing I know, the whole account is zero when we had just charged $5,000 to the account. And so I had said, there's no way that that was just a Walmart chargeback, and you know, we didn't do that in the first place. Why did you go ahead and charge all of that back when that was a valid charge for that vacation? Same thing happened, just very, very angry that I had, you know, called him out on that and he kept lying about it. And until, you know, I just kept pressing and pressing, and then the truth comes out. And I'm a very honest person. I, I really take that very seriously, and it, it bothers me that I feel like I can't have a trustworthy husband and Um, then in dealings with someone else, I found out, you know, some things about some different deals that he had done that weren't honest, and he ended up charging it back.

Um, and that was very recent, so that's why I'm calling in, because it just seems like a pattern throughout the years of charging things back or taking money when it wasn't supposed to be taken and then lying about it to me.

Um, how long have you How long have you been married? 10 years?

About 10 years. Okay.

Is he at all repentant and wants to change and wants to work on it, or is everything defensive?

In the fights, everything is extremely defensive and very adamant that he did not do the things that I know he did. Um, after—

go ahead. I was going to say, have you had conversations about the behavior that you've brought up in a non-argumentative time? So just— absolutely. And what do those con— what are those conversations like?

Um, very apologetic. I'm not going to do it anymore. But then when there's financial strain, it ends up happening over and over again.

So what do you want? What do you— when you— when listening to what you've told us, do you guys do—

sorry, can I ask this real quick? Yeah, yeah. Um, do you guys work on your money together, Jessica? Like, do you do a budget? Do y'all sit down and talk about it?

Um, I have tried to push for that. Um, we have one account together, and then throughout the years I have found that he's created several other accounts that I did not have access to. And that's another point of contention because I do want those things together so that I— so there is a ability. Do you work? Um, does he work or do I?

No, do you work? I do, yeah. What do you earn?

Um, um, I earn $120,000. And what's he earn? He is, um, currently laid off. Um, so he— when he was, he was making $90,000.

Um, how long has he been laid off? For about 4 months.

Okay. And it's kind of been a pattern with that as well. Um, we'll, we'll work for about a year, and sometimes it hasn't been his fault as far as being laid off, but it's always— I've, I've been the one with a stable job and it's always been where we've gotten these emergency situations where I have to pick up the slack or something like this is done because there's like an emergent thing that on his end that he feels like he needs the money for. Um, so it just feels like a revolving door for me. So when you say, what do I want out of this? It's like, it's very hard to see a way forward and I'm trying to see it because I do want our marriage to work, but it is very difficult for me to, to see what that path looks like.

Have you ever, have you ever done any counseling with him?

Has he ever been open to that? No. Um, and that is— I have had counseling myself. I have reached out myself. Up into this point with this last incident, he has refused counseling.

Um, and that's a big deal. I want to say because whenever there's a partnership, like marriage, obviously, it has to be two people who are willing to grow together, that are willing to grow as individuals, that are always willing to better themselves. And if one person puts a stop on it and says, "I refuse," that's really tough.

And not even better myself, but even to like, go what my wife's asking me after I have absolutely lied over and over and over, and I refuse to do it, like, even that, you know what I mean? Is, yeah, that's a big red flag. 'Cause my prayer would be that— and we get these calls sometimes, to give some men in this situation grace, that they get in trouble financially, that they've done money— they've taken care of all the money, and they haven't been able to pay the bills, so they charge a credit card one month, and then they end up in this bad cycle. And it's like this horrible thing, and it's not good, 'cause they didn't tell their wife, but then it was, you know, then she found out, but this is why, and then they're trying to work together and rebuild it. "Like, there's salvageable situations," you know what I mean, "in this. And my prayer would be the," I don't know, "The golden stake would be that you find redemption in this." And over time, slowly, he chooses to rebuild trust, take the steps that you need him to take for you to feel good, over a period of time.

I mean, I'm talking— It's gonna take some time. Yeah, 2 years or something. Of him doing what you need, Jessica, because he did this for what you need to rebuild trust. And that if one of those things is going to therapy once a week for 9 months, it's like, "We're gonna go. We're gonna do this. Jessica, have your own account over here, so you don't have to, you know, if you feel safer doing this." Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it is a— it's a total, just, surrender. But if that— if you can't get there, get there, it's hard to move forward. So, oh, Jessica, I'm sorry. I wish we had more time to talk it through. But yep, we're thinking about you. Well, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.