Transcript of My Husband Refuses To Work And Still Lives Off His Parents

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney, and we are answering your calls. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. We'll be talking about your life and your money. Starting us off this hour is Hannah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Hannah. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help today?

Hi. So I have a two-part question. So I got married about two and a half years ago. It's my second marriage. I have a teenage daughter for my first My current husband, we have a toddler, about a year and a half old, and he is a welder by trade, and he is very physically capable. He's in his late 30s, and I'm in my early 40s. He refuses to work. I work for a school district, so it's not like I make a ton of money, but I make enough to cover the bills. The house that we live in is mine. I bought it in 2020, thankfully. But again, we've been married since 2023. We put our child in daycare four days a week. And he watches her one day a week, which is really nice because childcare is incredibly expensive. Sure. But there's a lot of resentment on my end building up because he just absolutely- What's he doing the other four days, Hannah?

Where's he going? What's he doing?

That's a good question. So he's from a town that's about an hour away. So he'll go back over there and he'll hang out with friends. And sometimes he picks up odd jobs, I guess. I don't really know. I ask him all the time what he's doing, and he just always has a, weird, ambiguous answer. Oh, gosh. His parents also give him, they give him money, like every year, like at Christmas time.

His parents?

Yeah, his parents. They'll give him like 10,000 or $20,000, and that's what he lives off of because all he has to pay for is his own gas and then substances.

So you all are not- So you all are not- Okay, so money is not combined. So he makes 10 to 20,000 from his parents once a year and then some odd jobs. And he's in charge of a certain number of bills. You pay probably the mortgage and other things, and it comes out of your salary.

Yes. I pay the mortgage, all of our utilities. We do now, as of the last couple of months, we do split the child care bills because I was frustrated that he didn't want to stay home or work. And so I said that was the deal.

We needed to split that bill. Oh, Hannah, do you feel like you have major marriage issues?

Yes. I feel like you do.

What do you go long?

I'm asking me, I don't know. I feel like you do. Well, because what's interesting, Hannah, always, and John can get into this, but money is usually a revealing topic on how the marriage is doing. Usually, it's not really a money issue. It's more a reflection of what's going on in the marriage. And so everything you're describing to me is that he doesn't hold a lot of character in who he is as a person. Not only is he not being upfront and honest with you with what he's doing on the days that he's driving back to his old town, which I don't feel good about that, let alone not working, not wanting to participate as a married couple in the household responsibility. All of that, to me, is a breakdown of character, which will be a breakdown in the marriage because that's who you're married to.

So Hannah, I have a hard thing to say. Is that cool?

Yeah. All right.

Just for the rest of this call, I don't want to hear about this guy at all, okay? Okay. And this is why. He has no character. Speaking on behalf of all men, this is not a man, okay? It's not somebody that's taking care of their kid. It's not somebody who's taking care of their wife. It's not somebody who has enough dignity when they look in the mirror to get up and go to work and be somebody who provides, somebody who provides more than they take. But You can't make him do anything.

Right.

Where that leaves you with is a series of really hard choices. My question for you is, what are you going to do next? Because just sitting at home wanting this to be different and thinking, well, fine, then you have to Venmo me for all of the ice tea you drink. That's not a solution, right?

Yeah.

That's just you trying to flick him in the ear back while You know what I'm saying? So it's not a solution. So the ultimate question is, are you going to leave? Or if you're not, then if you are, that's one track. If you're going to stay, then you're saying, Okay, I'm choosing to stay here. If there is good somewhere in this man, I'm choosing to look at that, and I'm going to make peace with what I've got. I've got to go solve this math problem I have financially. I got to solve childcare I got to go solve these problems. You get what I'm saying? But sitting in the limbo, just waiting for somebody else to be different, he's not going to change.

Okay. I'm asking John this on your behalf, Hannah, because as you explain that, I agree. But if she... So say she did part one, right? And she leaves. Is there a reality, though, that she sits him down and says, I need X, Y, and Z to change, or I'm leaving? Absolutely.

But if you will tell me, There's no way I'm ever going to leave him. I've been through divorce before. I will not do that again. Okay, then that's good for you to know. That's a boundary for you. So now I have to learn to live inside these castle walls that I've built for myself. If that is an option, then yes, I think he deserves as your husband, even though he's failing every from here to Sunday, he deserves, here is a path to trust. Here is a path that you can walk that would reestablish you as my co-creator of the life that we want to build together.

Hannah, my question to you is, is option one and two on the table, or are you someone that because what you've gone through, you're like, No, it's just going to be option two, and I'll have to go from there. Do you know, just as a knee-jerk reaction?

Well,. And also, part of why I called in, and I know this probably sounds awful, but it is something that I think about is, though I have retirement through my job, through the school district, plus I have an IRA and a 401(k) that I put money into. I'm very financially responsible. I don't have any debt other than my mortgage. And he has a ton of debt. He racked up credit card debt, obviously, because he doesn't work. So if we divorce, I know he's entitled to half of my retirement for the length of our marriage and half the equity in the home for the length of the marriage.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Okay, well, that's good to know.

I would challenge you to not make any of those assumptions without sitting down with an attorney. Okay. Every state's different. Every situation is different. Some states have like, this is just how we do this, and other states take into all sorts of other things into account. So don't make any like, well, since this is true, sit with an attorney and get those answers.

Okay. Yeah, he's I mean, obviously, you guys are correct. Our marriage is not great because I have resentment because he refuses to provide for his family. Yeah. And he has resentment towards me because it's a long story, but there's a significant lack of intimacy in our marriage on my part. And part of that is my resentment towards him. The other part is I almost died in childbirth, and it's been a series of surgeries and medical things that have happened since then. Oh my gosh.

That sounds... Yeah, that's a to unpack, so I would probably sit down with someone. Yeah.

Call somebody today. You can call our friends over at Betterhelp. You can go find a counselor in your area, and you need to sit with an attorney and find out what the truth is, what your answers are, and what you need to do next.

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Next up, we have Francisco in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Francisco. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Well, my question is because I'm 30 years old and I have about 350 grand in debt. So yeah, I was thinking these days of at least declaring the company's bankrupt or I don't know if myself as well. But then your videos came up and then I started thinking otherwise.

Okay. Gosh, Francisco. Okay, so what debt is the 350,000?

So about 50,000 is on a line of credit that is to the company, but it's personally guaranteed, and about 45,000 is in credit cards, and then about 200 are on an SBA loan. It's really two different loans for So I have two different companies, like 140 and 60,000. And the one for 60 is already in collections. They sent me a letter yesterday with like 20,000 in administrative fees and this and that. And that's why I started thinking all this. And then we have four vehicles, two for the company, and two is my wife and I. And one is paid off for the company. And in the rest, we are over about 54,000.

Combined or on each?

No, on combined.

Combined. 54,000 car? Yes. Okay. For the loans that have already gone into collection, how long has it been since you been paying on those?

I've been paying since COVID because it was this COVID, SBA loans. But I was paying. I don't know what happened. It entered into collection. I assume- Not paying enough?

Were you paying the minimum?

Yeah, I was paying the minimums on one of the SBA loans, the small one, but that one is already in collection. And then the other one, I haven't paid it in over a year.

Okay. And then that one is in collections as well.

Is your business failing, brother?

Well, it is failing. I've been doing a lot of accommodations because it was a franchise, and they take 10 %. They had me on an office, an expensive office, where now all the machines is in my garage, in my house, and all sorts of things. So in the last year, I've been fixing it to at least I'm saving 8,000 a month with all the changes we've done.

Okay, you're saving 8,000 within the business or after your take home pay?

No, in the business.

In the business. Okay. So you're putting 8,000 away. How How much will you make profit at the end of this year? If you keep it going, if you don't file bankruptcy, what do you project?

My projection is small. It would be like 50,000, 60,000.

Oh, gosh. What do you do?

It's a construction company.

Okay. And are there multiple companies? Because when you said there was a VA loan out for one company, and then I got another loan for another company. Are there multiple companies or just the one?

The other one is a consulting company.

A consulting company. Okay. And is that still going? Are you still running that company or no?

Not really. We're stopping. It's been so slow in the last couple of years. We're not I'm not selling it anymore.

Okay.

What do you have? I'm thinking of vehicles, I'm thinking of tools, I'm thinking of machines. To liquidate. If you went and sold everything today, everything, just sold it all, What would you garner? How much money would you have?

In one car that's paid off and the machines and everything, I could probably sell it for maybe 50 grand. I can probably get at least 40 grand.

What about the second car that you have a note on?

The other cars, upside down in two of them, for about 10,000 or so on each.

Okay. Okay, so you're bringing home about 60. Yeah. I mean, this is a tough spot, Francisco. I mean, I never want to gear someone towards bankruptcy because we always want to look for a solution out. And the only solution I see for you on the horizon is going to be to do what you can with the business, to liquidate, take whatever what John was saying, anything that you can sell to get money back out of it. I would try to negotiate. You're going to have to find the cash. But once you have some cash, if stuff goes into collections, you will be able to negotiate some of those things. I'm not sure about the VA loan and all of that.

And the SBA, administrative fees, I don't know anything about any of that stuff.

Yes, whatever that looks like. But for most people that hold a debt that's in collections, whether this is credit card, medical, whatever it looks like, once it gets to collections, they're going to assume that you're not paying it, that you don't have the money for it, right? And you don't right now. So what I would say, my hope would be that you can find multiple jobs if you're married, having your spouse work. I mean, whatever you can do to earn some money during this time to start getting a plan to look at this debt and say, Okay, how can we slowly, especially with the ones in collections, how can we start negotiating some of this down? And then the credit cards, I mean, honestly, I'd probably let those go to collections. I think you don't have the money for them right now, right? So if you look up in 12 months and those are in collections, is there a way you can settle that? So it would take probably a good three to four years to climb out of this, Francisco. But that would be the way to avoid bankruptcy.

You're going to have to go get two or three jobs. Your wife's going to have to get jobs. You're not going to have to go work like crazy. Listen, I want you to call our friends at Guardian Litigation. It's a gardienlit. Com/ramsey. They're a nationwide law firm that helps with debt settlements, with collection issues. They might be able to give you some guidance on, Okay, the SBA stuff, don't worry about this, or the credit. They'll be able to give you some guidance, line by line with your various creditors, and who's serious, and who's not, and all that stuff. So check them out at gardienlit. Com/ramsey, and they'll give you some support and some help there.

Yeah, I'm so sorry.

What an absolute mess.

All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Honalulu. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

Yes. How can we help?

Yes, it's a two Our question. My husband and I are on Baby Step 2 and have about $8,000 debt left at zero %. I'm retired from the military in about 6-8 months. I joined when I was 17. The military has been my entire adult life. We plan to buy a home using a VA loan. We currently have about $21,000 in savings, and we expect to save around another 50 combined by June. My first question is, should we pause and stack cash for the house, or should we pay off the $8,000 now to fully complete Baby Step number 2?

Yes, that, the latter. So go ahead and pay off the $8,000. And then I want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, Elizabeth, before you purchase the home. Because once you guys get into this home, stuff is going to start to happen. And if you have no cash available to support yourself as your homeowner, it's going to go bad real quick. Okay? So you can use some of this 21,000 in order for that to be part of your emergency fund. And maybe that is your full emergency fund. I'm I'm not sure what your expenses are, but I would get a three to six month emergency fund. And then the fact that you guys can say 50,000, that's amazing. So I would get at least a 5% down payment on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where your payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay. So when you do all that math, if that's enough, then yes, then that's a great place to start. And Elizabeth, too, I would avoid the VA loans. If you can go just get a traditional mortgage, 15 year fixed, VA They tend to have higher fees.

There's a lot of stuff. And it seems like a really great option, obviously, from being in the military. But as you factor it all off, mathematically, your best bet is just to go get a traditional mortgage. But again, I would do a 15 versus a 30.

Can I throw one other idea, Elizabeth?

Sure.

Are you going to be staying in Hawaii, or are you going to be moving somewhere off the island?

We plan to either California or Texas, but most likely Texas.

Can I throw a second option out Sure. Go exhale for the first time and rent for a year. Get to know an area, get to know what you like. This is the first time you've been in your house and you'll find, I want the kitchens to look like this, the bathrooms to feel like this. If you race out and buy something in a new state that you haven't lived in, it's just a recipe for, We should have. I wish we had of. Just go rent for a year and keep piling up cash, and then buy the house that you really, really want.

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Up next, we have Walt in Baton Rouge. Hi, Walt. Welcome to the show.

Yeah. Hi. Thank you both for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

So my question is about charging rent to my adult daughter. She's 23 years old. She has been a registered nurse since she was 19, and she's worked full-time since the summer of '22, so almost four years. She still lives at home with us, and she's going to grad school. And in May of this year, she'll actually graduate and be a nurse practitioner. Good for her. That is good for her. Great. Her tuition reimbursement from her employer pays the lion's share of this, and she has no debt and has just been piling up cash.

That's awesome.

All right. So money-wise, she's in good shape there. Back in April of '24, I began charging her rent of $300 a month, plus a third of groceries to split those costs with me and my wife. She'd almost been working two years by then. She now likes to say that I'm stealing from her, and of course, the relationship is tense, but she does She does not want to move out either. She likes to say that none of her friends have to pay rent to live at home. We did tell her at some point that she could live here as long as she's in school, but we never expected it was going to be well into grad school like this. My wife and I do not need the money. Our intent was to show her that life has a cost to it. So really, the question is, how should we approach this with her to maintain the relationship in a healthy manner? Those are two separate ends. Or let me say this. Shees, what an absolute mess.

Well, if she didn't say that you were stealing from her, I feel like I would have a totally different... I was so on her team. Let me say this.

And then, Dad, I'm like, What are you doing, girl? You're a good dad, and you and your wife are loving your daughter well. Okay, thank you. Okay, so well done. I applaud you. Bravo. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not doing anything wrong. And in fact, I'm surprised at that statement, right? Is she saying it seriously or is she playing with you? Is she messing with you? John, she has said this in the last week to us. Okay. I know, but in a serious- In a serious? Is she playing? Like, Oh, you all are stealing from me. Oh, no. It's not playing. Oh, it's not playing. It is with a mean spirit. Okay. Absolutely. I'm not going to have a mean spirit in my home. And especially when I've been trying... There's a history of I've been loving you well for all of this time. And my My wife and I have been your chief cheerleader through your whole life, and we've given you such an incredible head start on the real world. Anything other than gratitude, behavior is a language. That's her saying, I don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore, or, I don't want to be a part of this arrangement anymore.

When I say it's two different ends, the right thing to do is to sit down and have a hard conversation, which is, Hey, we've been trying to love you well, and this is turning. I don't understand where this is coming from. And to let the adult who's about to be a nurse practitioner, right, allowed to be allowed to write scripts and deal directly with people's health and well-being, allow her to have a hard adult conversation. And if she chooses to end the relationship, to sever it, to do what is happening all over the country- Continuing to be pissed off and all that. Yeah, which is like, I'm cutting you off. That will be heartbreaking, and I would grieve the crap out of that. But she's an adult, and she gets to make it That irrational choice. That heartbreaking choice. Because you know who says what she's saying? My daughter. And my daughter's nine. My nine-year-old is supposed to say, Well, other kids get smartphones. She's supposed to do that. My 15-year-old is supposed to say stuff like that because they're nine and 15. That's developmentally appropriate, right? It is disrespectful, and it's just hurtful for a grown adult who has been given such an amazing gift.

And 300 bucks, Walt, for rent? Yeah. It's not like it's- It's not like it's $1,300. It's not like $1,300 that she'd be paying for an apartment that she's probably about to live in, right? I'm like, so it's not even a crazy amount either.

No. It's literally the answer is the same answer I would give to my daughter, which is, I know I love you more than clearly your friend's parents love them. But that won't fly, right? Don't say that.

Well, my question is, when did it change? Because you guys, you said since 2024. So it's been almost two years. When did the shift happen? Just in the last week?

I can't say that it's happened in the last week. It's been coming for a little while. I will tell you this. Once she started getting involved with young men as well, too, that's been the turn of this. And I will tell you, recently, she met a guy back last summer. They got engaged after only about 12 weeks. And it happened when my wife and I were out of town, and they did not tell or were involved, either set of parents, she's not pregnant or anything. We don't like her choice in men. He has some character defects, dishonesty, laziness. He wants her to pay for his grad school and among other things as well. But she doesn't want to listen to advice. She ignores the red flags, and that mean and spyful nature comes out whenever there's conversations that come up like that as well, too. Well, but here's the deal. When she chooses, As a 24-year-old, she can date, and I say this with all due respect, she could date whoever she wants to. She can marry whoever she wants to. But when she takes your generosity and says, I want to live in your house, then even though she's 24, she is saying, I'm going to live under the rules of my landlord.

Yes. If I started renting a house from a local guy here in town, I would be subject to that person's landlord rules, right? Yeah, absolutely. That's the way that works. So if she doesn't like your rules, she doesn't like you saying, I don't like this guy, whatever, then she has to make a big grown-up adult decision and say, Then I don't want to live in... I can't have my cake and eat it, too, right? Yeah. Right. I can't do whatever I want. I can't not listen to their... And you get to set the terms, you're the landlord. And it sounds like your terms have been incredibly fair.

Is she still engaged, Walt?

She is.

Okay. So have they planned a wedding? Is there a...

He wants to rush it up.

She's trying to... She's going on after this spring. She's going on to the extra four semesters to get her doctorate as a nurse practitioner, and she wants to wait. And so there's that tension there as well, too. But it's bleeding over. It definitely is.

I didn't know if the wedding was in April or something, and all this would just be a moot point in three months or what.

There What is- He would love for it to be as soon as they graduate. He graduates from undergrad in May. She graduates with her master's in May. I mean, he sees his meal ticket, man. He wants to lock that thing up as quick as he can. That's what we're trying to tell her. Let me say this, too. I worked with college students and grad students my whole career, before I came over to do this thing. There is, I don't know, a psychological fancy term for it. I'll just call it a phenomenon, where when parents and kids, whether they're 17 and 18 or they're 25, 26, when there is a pending or inevitable separation, sometimes people get super, super, super clingy, and sometimes people manufacture conflict so that the separation is palatable.

Like, subconsciously?

I don't think intentionally. Yeah, interesting. But I think I need to move. It's hard to move. I need to move. And so I'm going to find a bunch of reasons why I got to get out of here. Okay? And so let's take the best case scenario and say that's what's actually happening. She knows I've done my time here. I need to get my own place. I'm going to marry a guy that my folks don't like. It's time for me to grow up, and she's had a really good thing for a long time. Here's where you can cut right through all of that. You can take her out to breakfast. You and your wife can take her out. Probably one of you all would be better. That way it doesn't feel like two against one. And you can say, I'm not going to fight you. I love you too much. You will never, ever have a cheerleader as big as me. I'm not going to fight you. Here's what I think is right in my home. I love you enough to always say what I think is best for you. If you ask me to stop talking to you about it, I will.

But here's the rules for if you want to live in my house, here's the situation, what's going to be. But it's you cutting through it. I'm not going to fight you. I'm not going to manufacture fights. I'm not going to go to war with you. I I'll give you too much for that. But I'll always be your cheerleader. I think just cutting through all that nonsense and saying, I'm going to stick by my- Which is a healthy balance.

It's still him having integrity within himself. That's right. Of doing it. But yet It's like, I'm going to still be your dad.

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Going in the right direction, especially for home buyer's out there. All right, let's go to Elizabeth, who is in St. Louis. Hi, Elizabeth.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

So my husband and I, we purchased a double wide six years ago, and our interest is 10. 44 %. 10.

44? Is that what you said?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, it's pretty high. I was wanting some insight on what you guys would do in our situation. We want to get out of it as quickly as possible. I just wanted some insight on that.

Out of the double wide? Yes. Okay, so how much- Well, just get a...

Or a cheaper payment. Oh, should we refinance? I'm just I'm not sure.

Sure. How much is left on the loan?

We owe $72,676. Okay.

Yeah. How much do you guys make a year?

My husband just got a new job. He is at $26 an hour now, and I'm a stay-at-home mom.

So on average, how much is he bringing home a month?

I I'll have to do the math. He handles the finances, so I really am not 100% on that.

So you don't know how much you guys make a month?

I can check. I just know I'm supposed to be fast.

Let me look. Okay. No, you're fine. You're fine. How How much is your payment on this?

The house payment is $940. 31, but it is going to jump up to $956 in February for insurance and taxes.

Which is just an extra $16, right?

Yes. Okay.

So, $956. I'm wondering, is he making... Yeah.

That's a way lower house... A living price, I'll say, because this isn't a house. But that's a way lower monthly rent than we hear from anybody, a monthly mortgage.

Yeah, I think just the main thing is just how high the interest is. If we stay in this thing and pay just the payment over the course of so many years, how much interest we're paying, it's just- Yeah.

Well, let's say he makes, I don't know, four. Ideally, hopefully, he's making four grand a month, at least, because that'll be a fourth of your take home pay, which means that this isn't a crazy percentage of your income. That would be very reasonable if he makes around four grand. And so what you guys would have to do, do you guys have any consumer debt?

The only debt we have is on our truck. We owe 23,864 462. And then we owe 7,000 in medical. Then 1,100 on our phones, and then 400 for our credit cards. Okay.

Okay, perfect. So what I would do, are you guys wanting to stay in this double-wide, or when you say we want to get out, is it you want a different rate, or you want out of this because you guys want to go own a home? Where are you guys at?

Eventually, we would want to build a house.

But you're not I'm in a rush right now.

No, I'm not in a rush. I just for right now, just a different- Do you know what you could say?

If you were to sell it, I'm not suggesting that, but if you were, do you know how much it's valued at right now?

I have no idea.

Okay. So I would figure that out, Elizabeth, because most Most... I mean, depending on... We hear two different rules with them with this number-wise on the show. Most of the time, these go down in value. They usually do not hold their value. So I'm just curious from what it's worth versus what you could sell it for. Because you may be a little bit underwater on it. I don't know. But if I were you all, the first thing, Elizabeth, is I want you and your husband to sit down. Excuse me. Bless you, John. Excuse me. To sit down. And I want you guys to look at all of your numbers, Elizabeth, because I want you to know. And this isn't to shame you. This is very common in a marriage. One person just does the money and the other person's like, great. You just tell me. But I want you to know. I want you to know how much he makes. I want you guys do a written budget to say, Okay, here's how much that we spend on groceries. Here's the light bill. Here's the mortgage. Here is everything we spend in a month. And I want you both to agree on it, because what's going to happen, too, is I want you to slash anything you can out of that budget because your next goal as a couple is to pay off debt.

And I want the phones and the credit cards. I would make it a goal to pay it off in the next 30 days. What do we have to do in the next 30 days to get rid of that debt? And then we're going to work up to the $7,000 our debt, and then we're going to work up for the truck. But for the truck, do you know what it's worth right now? Are you guys underwater on it at all?

He just purchased it. It's a 2023 Toyota Tacoma.

Okay. So depending on what you guys make in a year, Elizabeth, if you guys cannot pay this truck off in a year to 18 months, he needs to sell it, you can't afford it. Okay. Okay.

That sounds good.

So you guys need a game plan. And the The mortgage, I don't think, because I don't know your income, which makes this really difficult because I'm not able to extract exactly the numbers. But if he's making around $4,000, this payment is not your issue. It's other things happening with debt payments and all of that if you guys are tight and don't have margin. Okay.

Yeah. And I did check, and it's around $1,000 a week. Perfect.

Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah. So that's around $4,000.

Is there anything... Sometimes Sometimes when we're stressed about money, and sometimes that stress comes from, there's literally not enough to pay the bills, but sometimes that stress comes from, we just don't know, we just don't know, we just don't know. It's easy to fixate on one thing and make it That one thing, this huge dragon that we have to slay.

Right.

Could it be that your lack of, I don't really know how much we make every month. I don't know exactly what all of our bills are. I'm just looking at these debts. It's that your focus just lasers in on that 10 %, and it's like, We got to fix this. We got to fix this. We got to fix this. You get what I'm saying? Could that be true?

It could be, yes. My husband, he thinks we need to file bankruptcy, but I don't think we see that. No.

No. Not even close.

Oh, God, thank you, guys.

No. Not even in the same universe.

Elizabeth, we just talked to someone with almost $400,000 in business debt, and he makes $60,000 a year. Yes. I watch you guys all the time. No. You are nowhere near He's in bankruptcy. You all just have to quit buying stuff you all can't afford. It's like this truck. You can't afford the truck.

Yes, absolutely. But he's pretty attached to it. I don't think it's- It doesn't matter. I don't care. I'll focus on the credit card in the- Well, no, no, no.

You all focus on you all's future that you all are building together. Yes. And this might mean, you're not going to like me saying this, it might mean that for a season, you go get a job.

Right.

Because for the next 12 or 18 months, we're both going to do... And he's got to get a That's your second job on the weekends.

I mean, honestly, I'm all for it. I could do grocery pickup up or something. Right now, I have two under two. So I've been making homemade soap from home, and I've been selling that, but that doesn't bring a lot of income in.

Yeah, but something creative from home, right? That we're doing something. I think that's the key, that there's movement happening. And here's the thing, too, Liz. But this plan to do this stuff, it hits the ego right in the heart. And what it does is it takes someone that is used to a certain level of lifestyle, a certain truck or whatever the thing is, and it knocks it down a level or two. And that's hard for anyone. We like progress. We like to see results. We like to be moving forward. And the feeling like we're moving back in lifestyle is emotionally difficult. But mathematically, you guys are going to start to see so much margin open up. Even as truck payment, do you know how much it is a month?

It's around 530, around there.

That's half your mortgage.

That's crazy. Right? So even if you all didn't have that and all these debt payments, that could be close to like 800, 900 bucks a month coming back to you guys. So you're looking at the math and understanding this is the advantage that we have is so important. But getting on the same page and communicating to him your fears, your dreams, Elizabeth, is really, really important, too.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with best-selling author and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, John Deloney. We are here to answer your questions. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Amanda in Denver, Colorado. Hi, Amanda. Welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. Thank Thank you so much for talking to me today.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So my husband and I have been married for 17 years. I am 42, and he is 48. And we made peace a long time ago with not having children, so we haven't been the best stewards of our dual income, no kids money over the years. We haven't been the worst. We don't carry any debt other than our mortgage, but we have very little in savings and no retirement. Last August, God surprised us with a baby.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah. So we are late in life parents, and just gotten caught in the process here going, Oh, my gosh, we didn't prepare for this. So in hindsight, I know we should have been planning for retirement for ourselves all along, even without a baby. But now with a baby, I feel like I am at ground zero, and I have no idea what to prioritize and where to start to give us a fighting chance at not only retirement, but just solid financial stability while raising this baby in this crazy, expensive world.

Totally. Are you guys both working?

I quit my job in April when I was I'm not halfway through my pregnancy, and I am currently a stay at home mom.

Okay. Are you going to go back at all, do you know, or will you wait probably for a bit and be a stay at home mom?

I will wait for a bit. The intention is to not. I'd like to just remain a stay at home mom.

Good.

Yeah, yeah. But at least for the first three years, three to five years. Sure.

No, that's great. Love it. How much does your husband make?

He makes $90,000 a year.

$90,000. Okay. Do you guys have any consumer debt? No. No. Okay. Any savings? Just cash savings?

I've got about $30,000 in bank.

Okay, that's great. Good emergency fund. Okay. So what's wild is, and I'm just going to run some rough numbers here, we have an investment calculator on ramsey solutions. Com. So check it out because that's just always It's a fun thing just to pittle with and look. But let's say, because we always say to save around 15% of your income. I just threw in a thousand bucks a month. Say you guys invested a thousand bucks a month and you guys have nothing right now We'll say your husband's 48. I'm going to use his numbers since he's the one working. Then let's say he retires at 67 at a 10% rate of return. That's about $676,000. That's not as much as I would probably want. What if we just, again, I'm just messing around with this. Let's just say you doubled it, then that would be 1. 3 million if you guys saved two grand a month. Two grand a month. Because the reality is, too, his income is going to go up, right? Throughout his 50s, he'll be making more. So I think you guys, if you start now, I think you will end up being fine.

I mean, do you think after all is said and done, I mean, if you guys had 1. 3 million when he's 67 in order to retire, for instance, and you guys, if it was a 10% rate of return, you'd be making 130,000, but you wouldn't want to take all of that. So let's say you took 70,000 of that to live off of at retirement if everything was paid off. That could probably be a possibility, right? So all of a sudden, there's still hope. It's not like you guys are doomed by any means, but I would start, right, and maybe be a little bit aggressive towards it. How much do you guys owe in your house?

We owe 130, and there's about 300,000 in equity in it.

Okay, great. No, that's awesome.

The other ditch effort would be, do we sell the house and take that money and start moving?

No, I wouldn't do that.

You just Robin Peter to pay Paul.

Yeah, you all are fine. You're good. Yeah.

Our mortgage, it's 3. 85, so it'd be silly to- Yeah.

No, I think you guys are good. Pay that house off. I would sit down with a smart investor pro. Amanda, you can go to ramsey solutions. Com and find one in your area. But I would map out to say, Okay, let's open up. He needs to have a Roth IRA. You can do a spousal Roth IRA. Does his company have a 401k?

I think they do.

Okay. Well, I would ask- I'm pretty sure they do. Yeah, and see if they do a match. Yeah, because there's definitely a path for you guys to have retirement, 100 %. But again, it will be you guys jumping on the train and moving forward with it. But I would sit down with someone and look over your entire financial picture because you're in a great spot, Amanda. I mean, honestly, you guys have no debt. You have $30,000 in savings. And then you guys are going to just start putting some money away monthly toward this retirement. And with compound interest and all of it, it's great. That's the best time to start is now.

So, Rachel, one of the things that I hear all the time that haunt couples in this situation is the phrase, I just want to get back to. Remember when. Back in the day, we should have been saving money. I just want to get back to, we could just go out to eat whenever we wanted. The couples that I see do well are the ones that, Oh, we have a baby at 42 and 48, right? Yeah. Who can put a period at the end of that old life and not try to reclaim what was, but to rebuild something totally new. And it's saying, We had our fun. We spent it. We went on every vacation. That was awesome. And now inside this new world we live in with a kid, with, Oh, gosh, we need retirement. This kid might want to go to college, all those things. We're going to have to to create a new awesome inside this new world. And the couples that live in that reality, what they come up with to co-create in their life is amazing. It's awesome. The ones that are trying to live this life but keep looking back at the old them, dragging it behind them, man, it just becomes such a weight.

And that's a recipe for people who go off and make decisions that they would never make, borrowing, cheating, all these things because they're carrying around this past. Instead of just saying, Dude, all right, this is our new world, and we're going to go fully into it, right?

That is so interesting because I would think if you're carrying what you wanted or what you thought would be, then your creativity, your brain, it all just stops there. It doesn't allow you to say, Okay, if I have this whole forward life, What are we going to do differently? What can we do creatively to change up what we want if we want to get to this place?

We're going to become a hiking couple. You know what? We're going to learn how to camp because that's what we have money for. And we're going to be the best campers or whatever, right? But we're going to live in this reality, and we're not going to sit down there thinking about, Oh, remember when? We're going to fully embrace what we got, and we're going to run forward with it.

So good. Yeah. And in this case, especially looking at retirement and numbers, I think living in the present, realize, Okay, this is our new life.

They're going to feel broke for a while.

Now, how are we going to shift this?

They're going to feel broke because $2,000 a month that they used to just blow on whatever is going to go into an account for future them. And they're going to feel like they're failing, feel like they're broke. And great. Right, cool. Feel that feeling, and then just go do the next right thing.

That's right. And what's wild, you guys, is when you're looking at this stuff, wherever you are financially, if you're in your mid-fourties, if you're in your sixties and you haven't started, the point is to start as soon as possible, right? That's key because time is on your side. And even with their numbers, what's wild is the contributions they would put in with the example of two grand a month, which is a lot. That's pretty aggressive. It's a lot of money. And I was just messing with numbers there, right? Probably a thousand is more realistic for 15% for them. But what's wild is their The contributions would be around 456,000, but the growth is almost 900,000. The growth starts to outpace the principle so quickly when you realize, okay, if I can just start as early as possible, that's on your side. It really is.

I could almost guarantee you they're going to go sit down with their 401k, their HR person, and they'll be like, Oh, we have an 8% match. And it's like, Oh, we didn't know any of that stuff.

And there's more, yes. But it's all about creating this new life, this new future, and these new goals, which is what Amanda and her husband are doing. So we applaud you guys, Amanda. We are cheering you on. We all want peace, peace with our money, our homes, our schedules. But having peace online is important, too. Most of the time when you sign up for a coupon, enter a giveaway, or click yes to another email list, your personal info, like your name, your phone number, your address, gets collected and sold by data brokers. And before you know it, your inbox is overflowing, your phone's full of spam calls, and your data's floating around who knows where. That is why I love what Delete Me does. Their team of privacy experts finds your personal info on those creepy data broker sites, gets it removed and keeps it off. It is simple, it's safe, and it gives you more peace of mind. That means fewer spam calls, fewer scams, and way less digital chaos. You have worked so hard to find peace with your money. Now it's time to find peace with your digital life. Start protecting your privacy and your peace today.

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All right, today's question comes from Nora in Massachusetts. I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years, and he has about $60,000 in debt, car loan, credit cards, et cetera. He says he wants to get out of debt, and he often complaints about money, but I still see him spending on non-essentials. He takes weeks to pay me back, even after reminders. I've offered support without wanting to be pushy, but our financial habits and lifestyles don't seem aligned. Would I be wrong to end the relationship over financial incompatibility, even though he says he's working on it?

Well, saying one thing and doing another.

Yeah, behavior is a language.

It's very different.

behavior is a language.

You're not crazy. And honestly, no, I hate this because I feel like money easily can be one of these topics. And I'm like, It's just shallow. Don't worry about it. Love can conquer all. That's what I want to believe in life. But the truth is, too, money speaks so much about who we are and how we do life, how we function in life. And when you're not compatible with that, there's going to be a, I'm not going to say a constant conflict happening, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

Money, to me here is, you said this in an earlier show, is a revealer.

Yes.

Because if I'm looking at guy who says, I want to do this, but then he goes in, behaviors of language, does a bunch of other stuff, says a bunch of other stuff with his actions, is he going to be the guy that's like, I want to be a good husband, but... Or, I want to show up for our kids, but But, right? And so I, especially at a young age, I'm assuming they're young, I'm just guessing here, I want to see potential. I want to see somebody that keeps their promises to themselves. I want to see somebody that makes a plan and It doesn't stick to it perfectly, but tries to stay on a path. Yes, it's moving forward. If he wanted to get out of debt, he'd sell his car and get rid of the car loan. He would say, Hey, we got to start eating at cheaper places. I hope you'll still like me. And it sounds like you'd be like, Oh, thank God. I love you, right? Yes. But it is... The money is just the flashing light that this is a guy who says one thing, but he does another thing.

That, if you were my sister or my daughter, that would be what I would say, I want you to look out for that thing. The red flag Yes. Owing 60,000 bucks of debt, would I say, Don't marry somebody in debt? No. Marry. But if the person is, man, if your guts are telling you, Dude, he's not a guy. He's a guy who says one thing and does another. That's enough to make me back up a little bit.

Yes. And you saying, I've offered support without all this stuff. And then in that situation, Nora, it's one of those couples that you end up being like his mom. You're in more of a parental role.

You're loaning him money, you're his bank, you're his mother.

You're taking care of You're having to help him be responsible, right? And then you end up being in this motherly role, and that's weird. And that happens a lot in marriage. We talk to a lot of couples where women are in that situation or men on the other side. So, yeah, it's not the fact that he has debt by any means or that, like John was saying. It's the fact that he's not following through with what he said and that he's living with a set of values around money that you don't agree with. And so whether we like it or not, money fights and money problems are one of the main reasons of divorce in America because it just, again, it conflicts with everything of how we do life on a day-to-day basis. You can't ignore that. And so I think it will be a stress point. It will be a reason you don't sleep well at night. You know what I mean? It's just all of that is magnified when you're married. So, yeah, if you guys can't get at least moving on the same page, again, not perfection, but moving towards the same page, it may be a deal-breaker, which I hate so much, but that's the reality.

All right, let's go to Susan in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Susan.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My family started a large home addition project last year in July. The project, we're paying about $313,000 for the project, and it was supposed to be done by Thanksgiving, and it's not anywhere close to being done right now. And so we are new to this project. So initially, we just trusted our contractor. But as the time went on, it just things didn't seem like it made sense. And the timing that he was giving. And as Thanksgiving went by, he kept on giving us, Oh, it will be done by this other date, and it's not done, and it's not done. And I just wanted you guys' advice on how to proceed with just not He's not being met on the project. Yeah.

Is he just not showing up, Susan? Are there days and days and days that he's not even there? He doesn't have any crews there?

There's not days and days and days, but maybe there's a couple of days that he says there will be there, but they're not there. But then they show up. And so he keeps them communicating with us, and he shows up, but it's not consistent.

Okay. Is he giving you a reason for why this is happening? Is it material? What's he saying? What's his reasoning?

Well, we are using an Amish crew in Indiana. And so the Amish, they have butchering days where they can't come because they all have to butcher. They have a car breakdown. He gives us different reasons throughout the whole thing. Sure. Okay. And so at least the pros of him is that he communicates and he's not given up on the project. He hasn't disappeared. The other contractors that he's using- That's a low bar, though, Susan. Yeah, I know.

It's like he doesn't cheat on me. He's pretty great. It's like, Well, that's pretty low bar.

Exactly. Yeah. But we also have a local connection. I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

He's using contractors locally that we have talked about with other people, and they say, Oh, yeah, he's a good guy. Anyway, the option The thing that we're thinking about right now to get this project moving faster and putting some pressure on him is, do we write a new contract for him and say, We know it's passed, we need new deadlines and new commitments. And some people have told us that we need to just hire a lawyer and be done with him and try to get as much money out of it.

Have you already paid him the full 313?

We have a retainage of just 11,000 left from the budget.

So you've given him 300, basically?

Basically, yeah.

Oh, man.

And another- Yeah.

Well, I think there's a combination. And, Rachael, this is your world. You all do this work. I would sit down with him and say, We've given you $300,000. This job is now going on three to four months overdue. I'm very close to calling an attorney to get this thing settled and get my money back so that I can go hire somebody to do the work that you agreed to do by this date, by this contract we have. I would have a new contract prepared and say, By this date, this is what it's going to be. If he doesn't sign it, it's cool. Then he might call your bluff, and then we'll need to go get an attorney and figure that out.

Yeah, because with some real estate, especially if you're doing a remodel or something like that, for some people, they say, Okay, it's going take twice as long and twice as expensive. That's the rule of thumb, which sucks. I think you can do it very much in a tightened up timeline and budget, which is what I've experienced before. But all that to say, I do wonder for him, have you guys had a level of intense conversation, a very direct and clear conversation with him, or are you just answering him via text and calling him today?

No, we've had some direct conversation. We've talked to him about Not yelling at him, but our frustrations with how the project has been handled. Sure. Much more towards after the deadline has been passed. In December, we had lots of them. Now, even more so this month, just the deadline has been passed. They haven't been showing up as much as I think they should be to try to get it done as fast as possible.

I think the two things are you need a new deadline that's reasonable, and he needs to be able to meet that deadline. If not, yes, then maybe there is some legal processes that you go to. Also, and I'll be honest, Susan, I don't know a ton about the Amish community, but you have chosen someone that's in a type of culture that- I've never heard this.

This is the first time ever that I've heard of this problem.

Well, that they have days that they have to take off. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I've never heard of this. I don't know if that's a reality in his world or not, that you have to take into consideration because you hired him. If you missed open enrollment, don't panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Health Care Ministries lets you join anytime. Chm offers a simple, flexible, and budget friendly alternative to health insurance, and you can join anytime. That's right. No open enrollment deadlines. Chm is perfect if you're self employed, starting a business or in between jobs because it gives you options without those out of control Cobra costs. And CHM is an insurance. It's a community of believers coming together to share medical bills and pray for one another. That's real peace of mind. You're not just sharing costs, you are sharing community. And families have trusted CHM since 1981 with billions of dollars in medical bills shared. You can see any doctor or hospital you want with no network restrictions. And members say that they often save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional insurance.

So make a change that fits your budget and your values. Check out chministries. Org/budget to learn more. That's chministries. Org/budget. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Give us a call, and we are answering your questions about life and money. Up next, we have Alice in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Alice. Welcome to the show. Hi. How's it going? Doing great. How can we help today?

Okay, so I'll get right to it. Me and my husband have been married for a little over two years. We are debt-free, and we're looking to I have financial planning. My husband's older brother is a financial planner. He's really good at his job. My husband has his retirement account with him, and I have my retirement account separate. My husband and I are both on the same page of putting our retirement account into a third party, like a smart investor pro. So we met with them on Monday. We're just looking for advice on how to talk to his brother about saying, Thanks so much for being willing to look to over his accounts for him, but we're going to go with the independent. So we're not mixing family with me.

I can tell you the conversation I had with my uncle, who's a CPA. He did my taxes for years. He's an amazing man of character. He's awesome. And it got to a point where I only reached out to him to ask for tax stuff. And I remember thinking, I want him to have the privilege of just being my uncle. And so I told him, Hey, I'm going to get somebody else to do my taxes this year because I want you to just be my uncle now. I want to be a guy I call for life advice, for wisdom to check in on. He's one of the funniest guys I've ever met. So I told him, I want us to just have a regular relationship. I don't want us to have a client-customer relationship also. And he was cool with it. But that's what I used in my house. Yeah.

Alice, is your reason for wanting to switch, which I totally get. I don't think it's a weird thing to to switch from your brother-in-law. Is it because he's not great, or is it because it's going to get awkward as he's looking at your numbers? Is it more of a relational move, or is it from a competency standpoint?

No, he's completely competent. It's more of, I I've just been told, you don't mix finances and money. I'm sorry, finances and family.

Has it been weird, or you're scared it's going to get weird?

I'm just worried in the future, life happens, and then it could become an issue. That's my concern.

Totally. Yeah, I think either way. Let me give you another example of one that we stayed, and this is different than a brother-in-law. So I do think the family thing is fair to have some boundaries there. But our smart Vista Pro, literally, the guy that we go to that has all of our information was a groom in our wedding. He's one of my husband's best friends, okay?

My smart Vista Pro 2 is in my wedding.

Yeah. And his wife was a bridesmaid. We actually set them up. And he says, And here's what I appreciate about him. Number one is like, he says every meeting, because we meet every January, once a year, we always sit down and look at everything. And he starts every meeting with, Hey, guys, if this ever gets weird, pull the plug. I am not offended. I get it because numbers are so personal. And here I am looking at exactly how much you're getting paid. You see it all. It's a very vulnerable thing. And I think it takes a special person to be able to handle that and see numbers. And I think some people really can. So I'm saying all that to say, on one end, it's your brother-in-law, and it could get really weird, and just like John and his uncle. And it's like, Hey, I just would rather... It didn't even get weird.

It was just- I'm sorry.

Yeah, but you just made the call. I just want you to be my uncle, or I just want you to be my brother-in-law. I don't want to have to even want to have to even worry. I don't even want to have to even think walking in the door at Christmas if it's a down year. I don't even want you connected to our money just because I just want you to be our brother-in-law. That is an okay answer. And then I will give a little bit of a freedom on the other end that if it's not gotten weird you think, Hey, maybe we give permission to each other that down the road, if we just feel like, Hey, for any reason, we want to switch, we're all good and it's okay, and let's just maybe wait and see. I don't know, right? I think it could be both.

It could. I took a call on my show on the John Deloney show this morning in another studio where a brother had awful taken advantage of his younger brother in a business. So that could happen. But the other side of it, and I would even go with the more common, would there be anybody on the planet that would look after you and your husband's money with more intent, like scrutiny, than his brother?

No. I mean, he would do a great job. It would be. I have no doubt about that.

I think that's worth... I think trying to project any weird thing that might happen one day into the future and drag that into the present is... I mean, that's the definition of ready.

Yeah, no, for sure.

For sure. I love Rachel's idea of starting every meeting, or you all sit down and say, All right, I'm about to move my money over. And you look at him and say, I love you, and I can't imagine trusting anybody on the planet more than you. And I'm worried that one day this will be weird. So I just want to call it out. If we ever decide to go with somebody else, I want you to know that we love you and you're our brother. You get what I'm saying? Put all that on the table. But Rachel is totally right. If he's not a good guy, he could take advantage of you in ways that nobody else can. But, man, if he's for you, dude, he will move heaven and earth to make sure his brother and his nephews and nieces or whatever you all decide to do one day, that they're okay. Yeah.

And that's also, Alice, no pressure to stay with it. If you still get off this call and you're like, Oh, yeah, maybe I am projecting fear into the future, and it hasn't happened yet, so maybe we stick with it for another couple of years. That's great. Or if we get off this call and you're like, I still don't like it, have the conversation then of the, I just want you be our brother-in-law. And it's nothing about your competence. You're amazing. I love you. I just don't want to even second guess anything when we see each other about money. I don't want to combine the two. And that's what makes you comfortable and your husband comfortable. Then you can say that. And And then go get a SmartFest or Pro, right? So I think either one is okay.

Can I ask you one other quick question while I got you? For sure. I'm assuming you've told your husband this.

Yes. We're on the same page.

And your husband has said, I will leave my brother to go where you feel comfortable? Yes, he has. You married really well. I did. That's awesome. I just want to shout out your husband, a guy that once he says till death, do me part, does us part. You come first. That's awesome.

So good. I love that, dude. Great question, Alice. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Aaron in Salt Lake City. Hi, Aaron. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, John.

Thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I've got some truck issues, and I've been told a couple of times now that I might be emotionally attached to the truck, and so I'm just looking for some advice so I don't make a stupid- I have no idea what this feels like. Yeah, I was about to say, that's a perfect two.

Okay, so what's going on? Can you afford the truck?

Yes. So the truck, I have a small business. I do landscaping, so the truck is my livelihood.

Okay.

How much do you owe on it?

I have a smaller I owe nothing on it. And that's where I'm attached to the truck.

I had about...

Okay, it's a complicated thing because I am capable of fixing this truck myself. But I can't take the time away from work to have the truck down.

To keep fixing it? 100 %. How much is the truck worth?

It's worth about 14,000.

Okay.

What do you need to have done to it?

Well, so it needed some motor work, and then I hit an elk.

And after that, I just- Well, okay. Well, I think Can't he try to be an elk?

Did you dress it and eat it?

Gross.

No, they told me I couldn't. It was sad.

Oh, man, you called it in. Good for you for being a good citizen. Oh my gosh.

But, man. Okay, so you feel like you're putting too much into it and it's breaking too much. And once it's fixed from the elk incident, is it going to be okay?

Yeah, and I'm in favor of fixing it. I'd rather fix it. I might be a little attached to it, but I can fix it for like, 3,500 bucks. I'll fix it. I just need... Well, I need something in the meantime. It's going to be down 2-3 weeks at least, and I have to use my truck every day.

How much does it cost to pay somebody?

Pay somebody what?

I'll have to look into renting.

It needs to be at least a one-ton truck.

No, no, no. How much would it cost for you to take your car to a mechanic and say, I need this back in 72 hours?

So I got a quote for $7,400, and it would be two weeks.

Okay, so it would be two weeks also? And that's not including the bodywork. And the bodywork was $7,200.

Go rent a truck for two weeks and call it a day. Get the truck fixed.

Yeah, because you're looking at renting a truck and you're looking If you're going to spend at the car repair, let's say, 10 grand total. You're going to spend double, triple, quadruple that on a new truck. Yeah.

So keep it.

I don't know. If you love the truck, fix it.

And you hit it, you hit an elk. It's different if you're putting $1,000 into it every two weeks because it's falling apart. I don't know. I don't know much about trucks, but an elk is... I would assume it would be in the truck. That's a big wreck. Yeah. Keep it, keep it, Aaron. Fix it and rent for two weeks if you have to. Tax season is upon us. So to get free checklists and guides that will help you file, go to ramseyolutions. Com/taxis. We are here to help. All right, let's go to Laura in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Laura. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

I lost my job And now my investment property is in foreclosure.

Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry.

When did you lose your job?

I lost my job, and then I got another job, and then I was laid off off off that job. Oh, man. So I lost my second job, past December.

When's the last time you made a payment on your investment property?

So the investment property was an Airbnb, and then we listed it for a long term rental. When the renters moved out, that's when I lost my job. And as soon as I lost my job, I left the home for sale with no leads. I was depleting my savings. I had five months of savings, and I paid every single month on time. I had excellent credit, and I didn't want to ruin it. But then I depleted my savings, and the realtors couldn't sell the house, so I changed to realtors, hoping that would solve the issue. Still didn't happen. And after four months... Well, they tried to do a short sale that didn't work. And after four months, that's when they did a foreclosure on it. So it's now in foreclosure.

Where is it in the process? Where are you guys at with the bank and everything?

The last letters we received were in December when I was laid off, and they said that they were going to list it the first of the month to take bids. So to be honest, I have no idea.

Okay. When When would they start the auction process? Do you know? They already started in December. Have they set a date for it? It already started in December. Oh, it started in December? Yeah, mid-December. And when will they close the bid? When will they close the bidding?

I have no idea.

Okay. I would probably get some dates. I would call the bank. Have you communicated with them at all since December, or was that letter of communication the last?

When I called them, they said they can't help me, that the loan is no longer with them, that it's in foreclosure, and they don't give me any information. They're saying that the short sale didn't go through, and now it's in foreclosure, so I have no idea who to call. I've even called the FDA or It's on the hook for it, so I don't remember what it is.

Right. Well, that's odd, because it'll be a bank-owned property at one point. But what you're on the hook for and everything is what I would... I would want all the facts of their dates and what their plan is. For them not to be able to help you, it's just... That's crazy. Okay, so when was... Well, I guess it doesn't matter. It's already in foreclosure. I was going to ask when the last month that you actually made the payment, but that would have been back in the fall, right?

Yes. Yeah.

Okay, So for income for you, Laura, what were you doing for a job in December that you got laid off?

I was making $75,000 as a project coordinator.

Oh, wow. An amazing job. How's your And it was- Current residence right now, your primary residence? How are you paying your mortgage for that?

Yes. So my husband covers all our primary residence bills and mortgage, along with the food and gas, so that's helpful.

So the investment property was in your name, and he let it go into foreclosure? You guys kept your money separate because you couldn't pay it. It goes into foreclosure?

It was under both of our names.

Okay. But he didn't have money either to be able to help with it?

No. So the only money that he has is to take care of our primary home where we live and all of our bills. Sure. Okay. Since I don't have a job now.

And then he's out. His income just does that, and then you guys have no other margin?

Yes. Okay.

I say this with all due respect because I care about you, but you can't wait around for another $75,000 project coordinator job. You got to go get a job, or two jobs, or three jobs right now, making anything. Starbucks Home Depot, any job, because you have two issues. One, you have a math problem you got to solve. The second thing is, is you've got to get your feet back underneath you, confidence-wise. Man, there's no question about it. Rachel and I are sitting here in the ash with you, getting fired from two different jobs back to back, and at least one of them was a killer great job. That's heartbreaking and hard. And the solution isn't just sending out a bunch of resumes on LinkedIn or hoping that another one falls out of the sky. Right now, I got a math problem I've got to solve, and I got to get back on it in a big way. Rachel, I don't know where to... I wouldn't even know who to call for a foreclosure information.

I would continue, they're going to continue to I'll continue to at least have to communicate with you at some degree. So whether it's letters, which was 20 days ago or whatnot. But I would continue until it gets all buttoned up, until the property sells to know everything. That's what I would be doing. But honestly, the saving Grace, Laura, is that it was a investment property. It's not your primary home, so you're not losing your actual residence, which is huge. But your credit score is going to be completely dinged. I mean, that's not even dinged. It's. It's gone. Yeah. But again, we don't worship at the altar of that either. And I think moving forward, what John's saying is exactly right for you guys. Get this all cleaned up, which hopefully in the next, gosh, 30, 60 days, you'll have everything buttoned up with that. And then it's the moving forward process that you're going to have to be able to focus on, and that's going to be that income.

Laura, hang on the line. I'm going to send you Every Dollar Premium app. It's a budgeting app. And also we're going to send you Financial Peace University, the digital lessons. Because this is going to be a really painful, awful, hard process with the foreclosure and all the letters you're going to get and all the threats you're going to get and all that stuff. But, Rachel, you just mentioned it, and I'd miss this, and I want to call it out. This might be It's going to be a chance for you and your husband to get completely off the credit score, the passive income, all the nonsense that we're told signifies we have wealth in our culture. This might be a moment for you and your husband to completely change how you We don't do money. We're not going to owe anybody any money. As for our house, we don't borrow money anymore. We're going to get an emergency fund. We're going to be our own credit card. We're going to be our own support network, and we're going to build wealth the old-fashioned way, which is slowly and over time. Hang on the line here. We'll hook you up with those resources.

I know this is a messy, hard time.

Yeah, for sure. But it's a cautionary tale, and I'm sorry, Lord, that you have to be the example of it. But guys, this is what we talk about with especially all these hacks and this stuff of, Oh, we can do this and this. We can Airbnb that, and all of it. For sure, sometimes doesn't work, absolutely. But there's also a huge reality that it doesn't, right? And it adds so much stress. And not that they were necessarily trying to do a shortcut, but there is this, I think it's a façade out there of like, okay, yeah, here's some passive income. Here's an easy way to make money, all this stuff. And people fall for it all the time.

Are they just on one side of the fulcrum, right? They sit on one side of the teeter totter and they're like, look, it's always going to be like this. And the reality crashes down on the other side of it. Yes.

And it's the perfect storm. I mean, Laura, seriously, you lose the job, someone gets sick, someone gets pregnant, wants to stay home. I mean, like anything in life that can happen, that's why carrying debt carries risk. Because when life happens, it's not if it does, but when it does, when life happens, all the cards are on the table. And if it's a house of cards that you've built and three of the bottom of the foundation get fall out, the whole thing crumbles. That's what she's experiencing right now. Versus if you say, Okay, I am going to take it slow. If I can't pay for it in full, we're not buying it. We are going to take our time building wealth over a proven method. What you do is you create a really sturdy foundation. So if a couple of those fall, your whole thing is you lose a job, well, you have an emergency fund, you don't have consumer debt. You got six months saved over here. That's old school. Say for a rainy day, that's old school. It's not cool and awesome and so fun in this hack. But man, when life happens, you're not shaken, right?

And so that's common sense, you guys. That's biblical. There's so much scripture and Proverbs about this, about what just slow, the diligent, prosper, or continue on the path, even though it's not flashy and exciting and you don't get cool Airbnbs and invest in this course that this 28-year-old guy is like, Look, I make a billion dollars a month off of this. And everyone, Buy my course. And everyone goes and buys it thinking they're going to be that. It's not real. It's not real.

Or the number of people who, after all the expenses on their Airbnb, they're like, I make $1,000 a month. And I ask them what their mortgage is, and they're like, Well, it's 2,700. And I think, If you had just paid that off, If you would technically be making 2,700 bucks in extra money.

Yeah, but you're making it 1,000. That's right.

So I'm going to pay 2,700 so I can make 1,000. And it's like, it's such a weird trade.

Yes, 100 %. I know you guys. So remember, slow and steady. The boring way of building wealth, it's the safest and the less risky. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Anne in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Anne. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

I've been engaged for almost two years. About a year ago, my fiancé suggested we consider getting a prenup. We both have children who are adults now. We have our own property, and we both are self-employed with our own businesses. I've been a single mom, never married, and he was previously married for almost 23 years. The property that I is paid off, and I don't have any debt. He's paying on a mortgage, and he has some other debt, although I'm not sure exactly how much. So I'm trying to figure out how we plan a future together. If our assets and finances stay separate. I'm 46 and he's almost 50, so I feel like we still have so many years ahead of us for wealth building and just putting a future together.

Yeah. How much are your networths? What's your net worth?

What's his? So after taxes and expenses with the business. So mine would be... Oh, worth? What I make every year or total property?

They can be that or just what are you worth? If you put all of your- Your house, your business, your cars, everything. Yes, all your retirement, everything.

Oh, so mine is probably 550,000. Okay. Almost 600,000. And I know- What about him?

What would he be worth?

So I know his property, well, the house and the property combined are worth about seven, 50, but he owes 280 on the mortgage.

Okay, so 500. Does he have a lot of retirement?

I don't think he has any retirement.

You don't think or do you know? Because in order to sign a prenup, you have to... You know what I mean? I'm like, before I'd even talk about that, I'd have every piece of information financially about each other.

I almost feel like he's waiting to disclose all that when it comes time to put together the prenup, because I'm really open about just everything. My finances and just... I'm very open. I like to talk about- Well, yeah.

Well, you're going to get married to the guy, so I'm curious why he's not so open about it. That's weird.

Here's the thing. I'm going to be honest. I've been working on a marriage project couple of years, and I have had my firm, immoveable position on prenups really challenged in a good way. It's James Sexton, an attorney out of New York, he's the one who challenged me on it, and it was this: Every married couple has a prenup, and it is whatever the state you live in says, this is how we're going to split it up. Unless you all sit down and write out, while you still like each other, What would happen if? We could debate that. In fact, some of my colleagues disagree with me. I'm unsettled in my opinion on it because I do feel like if you make a prenup, you're already getting into the boat thinking, Well, I just need to have an escape plane if this thing happens. And I do think there's wisdom in talking about, Okay, if this many percentage of marriages don't work, and you're marrying somebody who already has had one that didn't work, let's be honest about what happens if this doesn't. And we're going to do everything we can. So that's for a different discussion.

To me, my biggest red flag for you is, what a prenup would serve you two right now is to make sure your kids are protected.

Yeah, as I said, the adult kids is a change for me. Asset-wise. Yeah.

And it's not a way to keep secrets from each other or to keep everything separate forever. Because once you all get married, we're going to have one checking account. We're going to put all of our money in this thing together. And his business may pay him a salary, and your business may pay you a salary, but it's going to go into the same And if it doesn't, a prenup is not going to solve that. A prenup is not a cover for division, right? It's just a plan.

I think it seems like his biggest concern. Well, he almost lost his home during his divorce or going through his divorce, and he had to come up with so much money to keep it.

That pain is real. That pain is real. Yeah.

But he can't- I truly understand it and respect that.

I do. I know. But he can't hand you that cinder block and say, You carry this for me. Him getting remarried to you is him saying, Okay, here we go again. I'm going to put both feet back in the same boat. Because otherwise, he's going to have a foot hanging out of the boat, and you all will never get out of the bay.

Yeah. He had said he would like to leave his property to his daughters.

Yeah, and that's okay.

That's super fair and good.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. My thing is, and I'm with John, I'm not black and white on the issue of prenups. Usually, if there's a discrepancy in wealth going into a marriage, that's one time that I'm like, I get that. This is another If there's- You have adult kids with assets. Yes, adult kids in a second marriage. You know what I mean? All of that. And it's like, Hey, the adult kids, I want this to go to them because I've worked hard for this. I mean, all of that, that seems fair to me. What I don't like is is you not knowing exactly the... You don't know him fully, and you're engaged to him. So that does worry me. And I would want to make sure that the language, that you have enough representation, if you guys do go into this and do some prenup, that you have representation on your end, because it does sound like you have no debt, you have a home, you've done very well financially. He has a home, but he has debt, is what you said. You think. I don't even know if you know how much. You don't even know.

Or how much. So I mean, you could be in a better financial situation than he even is. But I would just want to make sure you have representation on your end as well, Anne. But it would not be... That's not the black and white issue to me. What worries me, though, is The secret. Yeah, how this is coming about.

Does that bother you, Anne? I'm just curious because I wouldn't be able to get close to somebody if they were like, Hey, you can know all of me. Let's get married. But this one part, yeah. But you can't know what's in these accounts.

Yeah. I'm not the person I've been almost afraid to ask because I don't want to seem like I'm being nosy or- Listen, hon, you're about to be his wife.

You're about to be his wife.

I didn't want to offend him for a while. I'm like, Well, it's not my business.

That's not... It is. You're about to become his wife. What if he owes $20 million in back taxes and debt? Right? You want to know.

And Anne, and I get your kindness of spirit. I can feel that from you, and it's so wonderful and such a gift. But you need to have the strength to push into areas of this marriage that are uncomfortable. In order for this marriage to thrive, it's not sweeping things under the rug. And you've already begun that habit, and that's not a great setup.

Burying parts of yourself to keep the peace.

And asking your fiance, his money situation, is not rude or weird. No. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. It's like you're not asking them to be like, Hey, you need to move to a foreign country with me for 18 years, or whatever. I don't know. Something was up and big, and you're like, Oh, my gosh, what? This is pretty basic stuff, Anne. Can I get your opinion on something else? Real quick. We got like 10 seconds. Go.

Okay. He has said that he doesn't want to move from the home that he shared with his previous wife. Even after I suggested we build a home together, I have property we can build on, where I can sell my property and pay off his mortgage message. Okay. And he was just like, Those are not options for him.

He just- You know what? I'm going to hold you because we'll answer that in the next segment. So stay on the line, and we'll get right back to you. How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals. But you're also probably thinking, Well, sure, Rachael, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is. Listen, I hear you. But you can do more with your money this year. Our EveryDollar budget app helps you find margin to make it happen. This is such a game changer. Everydollar digs into your money situation just like we do on the show. Then it finds extra money you could put towards your goals every month. Then the average person is finding $3,015 in just 15 15 minutes. Think about what that could mean for your family. Think about how much more peace you would have. Guys, you can make this an amazing year with money. Go download EveryDollars and start for free today. One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories on how they're winning with money.

And so We got this one from Claire and Winston. Great name. This is me and my husband's third month of budgeting with the EveryDollar app, and I am amazed at how much money we have found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500 extra in margin each month to put towards our debt.

$3,000?

Yes, $3,500. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off. We are never going back. It's incredible, you guys. So if you want that control, you want to see your income go as far as possible for you, EveryDollar is the most amazing budgeting app. You can go download it for free at EveryDollar. You can go to the App Store or Google Play. This is where you start to really change your family tree. We say all the time, you live like no one else. So later you get to live and give like no one else. And it starts with taking control of your income. All right, we're going to go back to Anne. We were talking to her. She is getting married. She is engaged. Her husband, this is his second marriage. They both have adult children. They both own homes, own businesses. The question was about a prenup. She doesn't fully know all of his financial information. And then right before we were going to break, she started talking about their home situation. So, Anne, is that a good summary overall?

Yeah.

So your husband, I mean, your fiancé, does not want to move out of the house. He shared with his ex-wife for more than two decades. And you have said I don't feel comfortable living in that house. Let's build something new. You can move into my house. I've got property. And he said, deal breaker. I stay here.

Pretty much, yeah. Okay. But even after, I'm like, I Of course, I'm willing to make sacrifices. And so I just want to get him. I want to see him out of debt. I want him to take a break. He's been working so hard all these years to recover from the divorce. And so I even I could sell my property and we could use that money to pay off his mortgage, but he doesn't want to do that either. I'm just not sure where to go from here.

How to move- Yeah, because that would mess up the prenup. I mean, that's you putting your assets into the asset that he's then going to give his kids. And you're not getting any part of that, right? So that's where the whole... It starts to be really complicated, really quick.

Can I tell you what I hear, and this is going to be really hard for me to say, Anne?

Okay.

I hear a guy that likes you. I'll even go as far as to say he loves you, and he wants to be with you, and he sees, I want to be with her long term, but I don't see a guy who wants to get married.

I did ask him a couple of weeks ago, just really at I was blunt. I'm like, Are you sure you want to get married? And he goes, Heck, yeah.

Okay, but I think he has a picture of what marriage is, and you have a picture of what marriage is, and you're both using the same word, but your pictures are very different. So around at the office, we say clear as kind. I think the kindest thing you all could do for each other is to, in as exquisite detail as possible, you all detail out what your picture of marriage looks like from how we talk about money to sex and intimacy to inheritance to wills to one checking account. Whatever your picture of marriage is, I want you to have the courage to write it out and share it with him and ask him do the same thing. And hopefully, 80, 90 % of it, it all matches. And then you're going to have to compromise, negotiate, walk away from each other because the other 5 or 10 % is so big, right? Or maybe it's, Okay, I can do that. You I'm not even thinking of this. But you all both have different pictures of what this thing looks like.

Yeah, because there is a level of sacrifice and meeting in the middle. And it sounds like he's putting up some really hard lines of even I'm going to live here and you got to deal with it. Yeah. That's a lot. I'm going to be in debt. You know what I mean?

I don't care what your values are.

Yeah. So making sure those values are aligned or huge. And so, yeah, when it comes to the housing situation, I mean, it's whatever you're comfortable with. I mean, from the math perspective, if you own a home, he owns a home, he wants you to live in his home. And if it's in the prenup that his home then goes not to you. If something happens to him, it goes to his adult kids. You need to make sure that your home then... That you have the equity built in so that you have a place to go to, not necessarily the home itself, but the funds and the equity that's in your home, if you do end up selling it and moving into his home, that that's yours, right? So it's not fair for you to wash yours clean. He keeps all this and then keeps it if something happens in the marriage.

But if two people are getting married and they both have houses and they want to sell their house, combine that money and go buy a house together, and one of them is not prenuping it away from the other person, that's awesome. Combined everything, you all want to go all in?

You can do it. That's usually what you do, yeah. But he wants to keep this house for his adult kids. So it's like, okay, Well, then you need to make sure that your house then is in a protection for you, or at least the equity in there, right?

We're just hearing over and over, and you squashing what you're feeling, you squashing what you think is right, you molding yourself to fit into this other guy's picture of his life. I want you to have the courage, for your sake, for your kids, for your future, to write down, Here's what I really want. Here's what I really believe, and have the courage to share that with him. He might look at that and walk away, and that you're worth that risk.

Well said. That's great. All right, let's go to Samuel in Columbia. Hi, Samuel. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing? We're doing great. How can we help?

Awesome. Yeah. So going through some forbearant stuff with my mortgage company took a pretty big hit last year on my income decreasing due to a family member's medical problem. I'm sorry. Me and my wife, we have three kids, one on the way. The mortgage company up my mortgage of $1,500 for the next six months to square away November, December, and January. I got a car that's about 60 days past due. I have a lease that the payment on it's cheaper, so we're currently trying to keep the leased vehicle to get out of the higher payment of the other vehicle. I don't mind explaining details as we go through this. I'm just trying to lay a little bit I'll have a PowerPoint out for you. But that's basically where I was at. I was pulling 8 to 10K a month for the past 2 to 3 years prior to March of 2020. In income? Prior to March of 2020. Yes, in income, 8 to 10 grand a month. That was what was rotating through my accounts until the situation that happened with my great aunt.

So how much are you making now, Samuel?

So currently, my past few checks, Now, I'm in the car business. I sell used vehicles. I work with a company that sells used vehicles. I've been racking in somewhere around 35 to 4 grand a month. Does your wife work? They're obviously in the slow season.

I'm I'm sorry. Does your wife work?

No, not currently. She's home with the kids? Correct.

And she's pregnant. She's on the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Got you. So you're four grand a month. Okay, so that's during the slow season. Where do you see yourself March April, May, June, July. What do you think you could get that up to?

Well, so obviously, we're here on the edge of tax season. Things are going to kick in. I'll probably start racking back in 8: 00 to 10: 00 K. Okay. For the next three, four months.

Okay, perfect. So it's the upped mortgage that's usually higher because you guys went into forbearence. So we're food, shelter, utilities, transportation. That's our key. So keeping the house current is going to be your number one priority, okay? And then this car, the car with the loan, are you underwater on that?

I am almost 60 days past due on it. It's the family vehicle. It's a suburban.

Okay. If you sold it, I don't want it to be repowed because then you got nothing. So what if you sold it?

That's the problem. I can't sell it. I packed in some negative equity on top of it. I have tried to sell it. I have tried to reach out to the bank to control it. Okay.

How much I'll jump them on. Totally. How much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it?

62,000.

52? 62. 62. Okay, 62. If you were to sell it, I'm just wondering, what could you get for it? 20, 30?

Maybe 50.

50? Okay. All right. We're going somewhere. I would get rid of it. The fact that you already can't make this payment, okay, Samuel, you sell it to an individual. Get it out, because if you're not able to keep making these payments, they're going to just take it, and then you're going to have 62,000 dollars, and then they're going to sell it for nothing on their end, and you're going to owe so much. So I would sell this- How do I do that with the bank going in the title? Well, you're going to have to take a small personal loan, probably from a credit union. So I would take a $12,000. To go get the $12,000 difference. A $12,000, yes. And I'd be a one car family for a season. That's going to be so uncomfortable with getting this taken care of. So see if you can go get a $12,000 loan, pay the difference, get rid of the suburban, and stay current on the mortgage. That is a priority. Even if you have to take an extra job. That's a priority.

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Here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from one to four, so you can come in and visit us, which people do from all over the country, whether they're driving through Nashville or they make it a destination stop. We do the show live with some glass, and we always have a great audience out there that comes and sits, and there's free cookies and coffees, teas, all of it. Then in the lobby, we also have the debt-free stage. So whenever there is anyone standing on the stage, we know it is time to celebrate. So welcome, you guys.

Thank you. Thank you.

Absolutely. We have nick and Renee from Chicago, and they are here and made the big trip down because you are debt-free.

Yes, we are. Debt-free?

Amazing, you guys. Okay, so how much debt did you pay off?

So we paid a total of $1,600,811.

63 cents. Oh, my gosh. How long did that take you? Six years. Six years. Wow. Six years. Amazing. Okay, and what debt was it? Student loans, credit card, but mostly student loans. Okay, so consumer debt. And a car note. Car, credit card, everything. Everything. Just the life. Just the life. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so six years ago, what started changing for you guys? What made you start checking down at $160,000 in debt? Well, we were on our way to our honeymoon, and the drive down to Hilton Head was we were listening to Ramsey.

So that was- So romantic. What a way to start the honeymoon, guys.

I know. So I started going... We were at Waterfront Church at the time, and they were offering financial Peace. And so we did that along with our premarital counseling. I drank the Kool-Aid 100 %. We got married. We drove to Hilton Head. I was like, Yeah, let's listen. Let's do this. And he never said, Let's take a break from this. So we just kept listening to one after the other. And so that's just what we did. But we've done financial peace every single year just to make sure we were staying motivated. Oh my gosh.

You've been through it a lot.

So we've gone through it a lot, but it helped us stay motivated all the way because the majority of this was my student loans, and that was really hard. So going through the financial piece every year, it just helped us stay on point. It helped us stay focused.

What was your degree in?

I did a Bachelor in Psychology, and then I have a Master of Education and Science. Amazing. Yeah.

So how much were you guys making during that time? I meant to ask you that earlier, but with that degree and everything.

So we started at $106,829, and then we ended with... Well, currently, we're at about $131,748.

Okay. Amazing. Oh, my gosh, you guys.

Can I jump in I have a question for you. I've never asked this. I don't think of a couple ever.

All right, bring it on.

I would love for you to talk to the couples out there where one of the people in that couple feels like the majority of the debt that we're trying to both pay off, I brought into this thing. And there's some guilt there. There's some shame there. Talk about how that felt knowing four years in, this guy married me and we're still not eating out because we're still trying to pay this stupid thing, right?

Right. Yeah. Yes, you nailed it in one. So it has been super challenging. Emotionally.

And whenCertainly challenging.

All challenging. Okay. Yes. And so before we got married, we had talked about, what does your debt look like? And he's telling me, he's like, oh, I've got a lot. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. I was like, oh, gosh, because I'm just thinking of mine. Totally is. And he's like, about $12,000. And I was like, oh. And then I thought, Well, this is the end of this. Then I told him mine, and he was just like, Okay, let's do this.

And it was what? What was it? 120, 130?

Yeah, 130. 130.

Yeah, okay.

And so he was just like, Okay, all right, let's do this. And so every time I would get super upset or have a challenge or just like, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm the reason we're still in this. And he's just like, No, this is ours. We're doing this together. We're in it.

You're a great man, brother.

He is. I've got a really good guy. So he's been in it with me from day one.

So what do you tell that person listening who doesn't want to come clean about what they owe, is afraid of saddling their spouse with this journey?

I would say you have to be honest and open about it because Because that's what made... We've been married six years, and that's what's made this marriage so strong. We had a lot of other elements. We had a lot of other things moving forward in this. We were doing IVF through this. We were paying cash for that. It was just to consistently have that debt loan on top of it. It was just hard. But knowing that he was there with me, he was supporting me, that we were supporting each other, we learned how to say no to each other, which was- Amazing.

Yeah. The best way I could put it is trust, open-mindedness, and to love as unconditionally as you can.

It's beautiful. It's a hard thing to- It's a hard thing to do.

Every day, yeah. It's making a choice.

But it's a hard thing to do, and it's a hard thing to receive.

It's both, right?

Yeah. Okay, so for you guys on this journey, who, out of the two of you, who's more of the spender, who's more of the saver, who's more free spirit? Would you say you had different personalities through it, or were you all pretty honed in together? It sounds like you all are pretty similar from the way you're talking, but I'm curious. I think I may have become more of the spender now. I don't know. Nick's like, I can do this. I can spend some.

Yeah, he's good at spending. He's good.

I love it. What would you say was the hardest part of this journey? We talked about some of just the marathon and all life that was in there, but was there a part that was like, That is tough. After all the smaller debt, and then it became the student loan debt, and then it was that time when we were going through the IVF, that was a challenge. But we had to break it down into little victories, making this amount this month or this amount every quarter, whatever it is. That's great. And celebrate those little ones. I love it. Yeah. Okay, so what would you say the key of getting out of debt is if someone were ask? Be diligent and just do it all in, all or nothing.

The budget has to... I mean, as everyone often says, the budget is essential. Learning how to say no. And we're both people-pleasers, so that was really challenging, I think, especially in the beginning. So, yeah, that's what I would say to that also.

It's amazing, you guys. How does it feel? Fantastic. It's a huge burden off. Yes.

It's just so funny because we have old cars. Christmas came, and between the two cars, we still had over $3,500 of car repair we just did. It's not over. Life is still happening. It doesn't just end. So know that.

Yes, that's right. Life is still moving. We made it down to Nashville in eight hours. Yes, there you go.

If you get out of here in time, you'll miss the snowpocalypse. We will be leaving.

Yes, we will.

We'll be going up to one time.

Well, you guys are amazing. Absolutely incredible. What an incredible journey you've been on. We so appreciate you sharing your story and just inspiring people, right? Because you hear 160,000, and it is. It's a big number, but yet people do it. People are on their journey. So some people may be starting, some people may be at the very end, and they're hearing this, and it's the motivation they need. So we are so excited. So happy to celebrate you all. All right. So we have nick and Renee from Chicago, Illinois. They paid off $160,000 in debt in six years, making 106 to $131,000 a year. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear your big debt-free scream.

All right, three, two, one.

We're debt-free. We're debt-free. I love it. Love it. The intensity. You can feel it.

It's still one of my favorite parts of this show.

Just the relief. Man, that is...

Very few people can do something for six years.

It's a lot. Long time. It's a long time. It's a long time. It's a long time.

They just kept showing up.

It's awesome. And chipping away each little bit at a time. Oh, my gosh. Nick and Renee, absolutely incredible. Absolutely incredible.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 26: 3. I will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast because they trust in you. Maya Angela said, You may not control all the events that have happened to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. That's good. Very empowered. Rarring. All right, let's go to Susie in Charlotte. Hi, Susie. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel and John. I'm so excited to speak with you both. I appreciate you taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

I'll ask my question, and then I can give you a little more context if you'd like. Okay. My question is, when we're ready to retire, is it a good move for my husband and I to move money out of the stock market into more conservative funds within our IRA for withdrawing that money? Go ahead.

Well, I was going to say, depending on who you talk to in the financial planning world, some people go super conservative, and they suggest annuities, CDs, like putting your money in. But honestly, who we talk to from the financial planning perspective and who we more tend to lean towards is leaving it in Because for retirement, let's say you retire at 65, you may still have 20 years of your life left, and you would miss out on so much growth because a lot of the retirement, you may not even touch the actual nest egg. You'll just be actually living off of what it's making every year, and you're going to make nothing in a CD or annuity, all of that. Even though it feels safe over such a long period of time of retirement, you're still going to make so much keeping it in.

Yeah. Our financial advisor had said that his rule of thumb or his thought process was that you could spend about 4% of your retirement savings each year. And he said that money markets and bonds were paying about that, and that as we got closer to retirement, we could move some of our investments into that inside our IRA, not annuities or anything, but leave it in the IRA, just a different fund.

Yeah, and a lot of financial planners will do that because it's a conservative rate. In fact, I think Dave even says you could take out up to 6 to 8 %. So I would say, if Dave Ramsey was sitting here, he would be way more on the liberal side of this, meaning like, Leave it in, and you It can actually probably take out more than 4%, but a financial planner is going to be more on the conservative end. The fact that they said that is not shocking, but I would not. I would leave it in because at some point, you may not even keep up with inflation, depending on what these money market accounts. They're pretty good right now, but over time, we haven't always seen that rate of return. And so keeping them in the markets, you're going to be making so much money. I mean, on average, you're making 10 to 11 %. Some years, I mean, last year was like 20 something %. It was crazy. So you would miss out on so much growth, pulling your money out.

Okay, that's great. Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. All right, let's go to Angela in Dallas. Hi, Angela. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, hello.

I have a quick question. I feel like we're best friends, so I'm so excited to talk to you.

Oh my gosh. You're our BFF. We're so excited to talk to you.

Okay, I have a I have a question. I wanted some clarity about sinking funds. I was listening to the podcast the other day with Jayden Kim, and she had mentioned that sinking funds are intended for expenses that you cannot cover on a monthly basis, or at least that's what I understood her say, and it changed my whole life. So I feel like I'm a free spirit when it comes to spending, but I'm also a budgeter like no one's business. So I have a sinking fund for clothes, haircuts, oil changes, like tire changes, and Christmas. But I do find that we're getting into the sinking funds on a monthly basis because we need more funds. And so I'm thinking I might be creating sinking funds for things I might shouldn't be and should just be calculating for that in my regular checking account, and then it should be saving for things like Christmas or tire changes. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does.

Can you all elaborate on that a little bit for me.

Yeah, no, it's a great question. So yeah, usually sinking funds are for a specific... The way I've looked at it, and I think people can use them different ways. George Campbell probably has 20 sinking funds, let's be honest. So I'm sure everyone probably tends to do it differently. I don't think there's I'm not necessarily a right or wrong. But for me, the most effective way that I think in order to keep a monthly budget and have sinking funds is that sinking funds have an end date. It's almost more like, or for me, it's like a goal where I'm like, Okay, I know Christmas is coming. I need to put X amount away for Christmas or a singing fund for a trip coming up. Hey, we're going to go to Disney next summer, whatever the thing is. Let's save up a little bit at a time. Now, what some people will do is they will roll over their amount in their budget for ongoing expenses, just like clothes. I don't know, you get $100 for clothes a month, and you're like, Okay, I didn't spend that, so I want $200 for next month because I didn't spend it, so I want to roll it over.

A great way to track that is using sinking funds within the EveryDollars app, and people will do that. But that's more of a discussion of, does the budget end? When the month is done, what I would say is if you're in Baby Steps one through three, and the month is done and you have money you have not spent, I use that cash towards debt or towards saving up for an emergency fund. But if you're past Baby Step 3, then I would be okay with you rolling that over and using it for the next month if you want, like out to eat your restaurants or your clothes. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

It just sounds like you're using the words sinking fund for four or five different things. That's it. It sounds like semantics.

Yeah, I feel like If I was to create a word picture for it, I feel like a squirrel a little bit. I'm tucking a little here and a little here, and then I'm pulling from this. I feel like we might not be getting the momentum that we should be getting. So when she said that, I was like, I can put it in my checking account and go, Okay, I know that when the season changes in April, I'm going to need clothes. So that's that. And then I know we're going to get haircuts of this. You know what I mean?

But those are budget line items. Haircut is a line item. Yes. And what I would challenge you is, if you know when the season changes, I'm going to, quote, unquote, need clothes, I would challenge you to be specific for a season. I'm going to need two pair of long pants and a new jacket. Not, I'm going to need $600 to just go to the store and see, right? And so if you, quote, unquote, need clothes, then be specific about what you need and then reverse engineer that. That's a sinking fund. I need 600 bucks, so I need 50 bucks a month for the next however many months to get that number because I know what I'm going to go buy. That specificity will force you to say, Okay, this is a budget item, or this needs to go to debt, or this is a sinking fund. I want to buy a car and it's 30,000 bucks. I don't have 30,000 extra dollars this month or any month, so I have to put this much money away every month. That's a sinking fund. But I need haircuts, I'm going to need glasses. Those aren't sinking funds.

Those are just budget line items.

Okay.

Does that help?

Okay, yes. Yeah, it Okay.

Thank you all. Yeah, you're so welcome. Yeah. And again, it is as you need, right? I mean, whatever you want to do. Because in the EveryDollar app, we have the funds function in order for sinking funds. But also, if you have the Every Dollar app, if you're using desktop, over to the left-hand side, there is actually a goals area. You can click goals. And that's what I like. I actually like to use that function better than sinking funds because for me, the end date is where I'm like, Okay, I know this is happening now. Then I can, to your what you say, reverse engineer what I need to put away each month for that specific category.

But I like what she said. I like to think in my head like, You know what? Battle of the Bands is next year. I'm going to need a new guitar, so I should probably just put a whole bunch of money. And then I'm going to go walk around and I'm going to buy a bunch. There's something about saying, Okay, one, nobody needs a new guitar, but I I'm going to buy this one. It's going to cost this much dollars. And so if I'm going to do this budget with integrity, which I don't always do, if I'm going to do this right, I'm going to get that dollar amount and go to the store and get that guitar, and I'm going to walk out the door.

Totally, yeah. That it is so specific, right?

Otherwise, it becomes the shopping process becomes a hobby. And that's how I get myself back into old John trouble.

Old John trouble continues on. But I like it, and I don't like the whole, I need two pairs of pants and pair of shirt. Just go shop. Go enjoy. Just live in the moment. Angela, live in the moment.

Must be nice.

Oh, my gosh. Must be nice. All right. Well, thanks to everyone in the booth. Great show. John, always fun. And thank you, America, for listening. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.