Transcript of Money Is a Tool To Create a Life You Love

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing experiences. I am Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best selling author, George Campbell, and co-host of The Smart Smart Money Happy Hour. That's right. We do another podcast together. We are here to answer your question. Give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we'll be talking about your life and your money. Kicking us off this hour is Marissa in St. Louis, Hey, Marissa. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Happy to be on it. Love Smart Money Happy Hour.

Thank you. Got your two favorite hosts then sitting here. You planned it right.

It really is. My The question is, should we get a high deductible, high premium health insurance plan or a traditional health insurance plan? My husband and I are on Baby Steps 4, 5, 6, and we just had our third baby in November.

Oh, congratulations. It's so exciting. Thank you. Are you guys relatively healthy people, would you say?

For the most part, yes. Our two older kids both had to have tubes in their ears twice. So that's not fun expense to have to pay. Sure. But other than that, we're mostly healthy.

Okay. Yeah, because I feel like for me, George, that's how we've decided it overall.

Health of the family.

Yeah. That's the way we've dictated it. I don't know about you.

There's a spectrum, almost a bell curve, if you think about it and you go, All right. If there's a ton of health issues in the family, the high deductible health plan could be good because you'll hit your out-of-pocket max and it's going to be 100% covered. If there's very little health issues in the family, it could also be good. If you're somewhere in between, you might want to go with a traditional plan. Now, I have chosen to go with the high deductible health plan. I love the low premium. You guys are in Baby Steps 4, 5, 6. You can take on a little more risk from the insurance company by having that higher deductible. I love the fact that you get the health savings account with many of these high deductible health plans. That's a really cool health savings tool, but also a life hack retirement option as well because you can invest inside of that, and it's a triple tax advantage. I'm just a big fan of the high deductible health plan, but again, it's a very personal decision based on the health of your family.

Have you guys priced both, Marissa?

Yes, we have. The reason why we're going through all this is because with the third kid, we decided I wasn't going back to work. We were going from everyone being on my health insurance plan to now all of us being on my husband.

Got it. What would be the out-of-pocket max on his plan now for the whole family?

Oh, gosh. I believe it is 16,000.

16,000. Okay. You How much do you have in the emergency fund?

We currently have 17,000, but with me not going back to work, we're about to up it to 25,000.

Yeah, I think that'll give you some peace. Again, you can price it out. You can even talk to Healthcare Insurance Pro through ramseysolutions. Com to help you navigate some of this, and you can crunch the numbers. I personally wouldn't burn too many brain calories over it. You can look at what you guys have spent on healthcare in the past, what the premiums are, what the deductibles are, the out-of-pocket max. Those are really the main things you want to look at to decide. But the main thing is you got good coverage, you know what the in-network care is, and you're not going outside of that, and do I have good care with the network S that I've chosen. When it comes to the Ramsey plan, I go, What's the cheapest option I can pay for that still covers my family? Because really, you want for the big catastrophic stuff. That's right. The little ankle bite or stuff, I'm like, whatever.

Because you got three kids, so you're going to be going. You're going to go to the pediatrician during the winter, one or two times.

But if you're getting tubes and surgeries, that That's where you want to go, All right, I want to know this is my max out of pocket. Yes, exactly. That gives me some peace knowing that's in the emergency fund. That's a worst case scenario. Good to go.

All right, let's go to Holly in San Antonio. Hey, Holly. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I got started with you guys late. I am debt free now, with the exception of my mortgage.

Oh, great.

But I didn't start investing until about age 55. I'm 58 and a half now. I fully maxed out my Roth as much as I can. I have another mutual fund investment that I put my 15% in every month. But what I have is Years ago, I got into an annuity, and I had about 27,000 sitting there. I stopped contributing to that and started contributing more to my mutuals in the Roth and everything. My question is, if I pull it out early, so basically a year early, there's a 10% penalty on that. Would it be valuable for me to just pull that out now, roll that into my mutual funds, or should I wait for a year and then pull it out when I hit that 59. 5?

What is the 10% penalty amount to? What's the dollar amount?

I have about 27,000 in there, so it's about $2,700.

Okay. What would you pay to keep it going for the next year until you can cash it out without penalty?

It's nothing. I'm not putting anything into it or anything at all. It's just sitting there.

Then I'm doing the math on this going, All right, I could pony up 27,000 or just leave it for a year. That's not a long amount of time at this stage of the game. It might just be worth waiting.

Okay.

Instead of paying that property. What type of annuity is it, Holly? Like a variable or a fixed?

I got to be honest. I believe so. It's been sitting there. It's not earning anything at all.

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. They do not have good returns. I'm sorry that you even fell into this trap. Annuities make sense for almost nobody. The only one that would even be okay in the Ramsey world, if you really wanted to do it, is a variable annuity. But even then, you're better off investing. These are used to prey upon people who are scared of the stock market, who want the stability, but they don't realize they're missing out, and there is actually more risk in missing out on the returns. I would just let it sit. The damage is done. You're going to be okay. Do you have a at Nesteg? Are you going to be able to retire when you want to?

I would love to retire at 65, but I'm also with a mindset that if I'm still doing good and enjoying what I do, I'm just going to keep going.

Absolutely.

Yeah, That's great.

I'm working on building as much as I can. I'll get a teacher pension as well, so that'll help. But I want to work as long as I can to build it up as much as I can.

If you continue to max out retirement accounts from, you said you're 58 and a half for the next seven years or so, well, also your investments are going to double in that amount of time if it gets an average 10% rate of return. You should be hopefully in good shape with pension and everything you've got going on, but I wouldn't let my foot off the gas for sure.

No, absolutely not. But I thank you guys for all your help because you've helped get me to this spot, and I can't thank you enough.

That means the world.

You did all the hard work. Thank you, Holly. Yeah, you did it. For sure, wait a year, so you don't have to pay that 10%, but then I would take it out and invest in. Like George said, that seven-year mark is always just an easy math, Holly, too, if you're like, okay. Because if you pulled out and put in a mutual fund, you're going to get 55 grand or so. Yeah. Just sitting there 10 years.

Way more than you have in the annuity.

Tons. I mean, it's crazy.

These annuities, Rachel, they're being peddled more by advisors. Yeah, and it's because of the-Advisors.

Yeah, and it's because of the fear element that people are. I mean, especially after an election year, when the housing market even feels like, oh, my gosh, everything just It feels big and scary out there. It feels safer to put your money in something like an annuity because you don't have the risk of everything, but yet your money is not making the return it could.

They're so expensive. The amount of fees and commissions built into these.

I was going to say, they make a lot, right?

The financial- I mean, that's why they push whole life in annuities instead of telling you, Hey, just go invest in your 401k. They got to make their money. I don't like these, quote, unquote, wealth strategists and advisors that are really just insurance salespeople.

Not a fan.

George, I'm sorry, Rachael.

Got under my skin. Really just coming in hot today.

Coming in hot with high deductible health care plans and annuities. It's a hot show.

It's a crazy show out there. This is The Ramsey Show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news. Knockbox, that's N-O-K box, as in nextofkin. Com. Knockbox is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess, when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents, IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts, and other personal history in one manageable place. Your family will feel your love in every detail you take care of. So start taking care of them at knockbox. Com/ramsey. A well-organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox. Com/ramsey. Welcome back. Going to the phones, we have Sarah in Riverside, California. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So I have some guilt and pride around using child support money. So I was in an evasive relationship, and by the grace of God, I was able to leave when my son was about three weeks old.

Oh my gosh, Sarah.

I met my now husband when my son was six months old, and he's now twelve. My husband and I had We got and talked and said, We don't want any money. We don't want anything. We want nothing to do with him. Well, the judge made the decision that it's not our choice and it's not our money. It's for our son. We were just putting all that money in an account. We had some debt. In 2021, I lost my job and we needed four walls, so we dipped into that account. As of January of 2025, we are officially done with Baby Step 2. We are completely debt-free.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. It's very exciting. I'm really happy to be there. But I have about $4,000 from that child support money that we said we'd never use. I'm wondering if I should just pay it back like a debt and just keep going like if we were on baby step two. The connotation of the child's support money in the first place just kills me. I don't know what to do about it.

This guilt, Sarah, I'm just double-checking that the facts are correct. You didn't use this money immorally. It was more of a conviction that you personally had with it because of who it came from. The thought of using it just feels gross, and you had to use it at one point. But from a legal standpoint, you used it exactly how anyone else would use it, to help run the household because you're taking care of a child, and that other parent is helping with that, correct?

Exactly. Yeah.

What was the court order? How much and for how long?

Originally, it was until he was 18, and it was supposed to be $430. The only money that I've actually seen from that is the COVID money. I was able to get his COVID check. I didn't know that it was coming. My husband adopted our son when he was four years old. Everything finalized, so that's when the child support stopped. But there's so much arrears that... I mean, I will still randomly get a $12 check, $4 check.

It's over, essentially. You're not getting future payments. You just have this saving sitting here, and you feel like I don't want to touch this money because it feels weird. Yeah.

How much is in that account?

In the account right now is 2,000, and I used four of it.

Four of it. What are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18 or help pay for a car when he's 16 or college, or what do you think?

That's what we were thinking, just a car or something like that. Like I said, my husband's been around since my son was six months old, so my son doesn't know. He doesn't know any different as right now. Eventually, we're going to tell him. I mean, we have to tell him, but we're just not there yet. He's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet.

Sure. Okay. I'll speak to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that, no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean, you use the money, essentially, how the system works, and you use it exactly appropriately. I know that it doesn't sit well with you because of who it's coming from, and that That totally makes sense to me. But I think the debt going forward, which is not a debt, but is to say, okay, how can we best set up my son to have a life where he, from a financial standpoint, understands money, doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey, and we're setting him up in order to do that. And that looks like things like maybe college or helping with his first car, whatever that may look like for you guys. And for me, I wouldn't hold on to that emotional $4,000 anymore because I think you need to release that. But I think going forward, the motivation now is to pass a great legacy onto your son, regardless of $4,000 or not. So I totally understand how that can feel like, Oh, my gosh, we use this money, and it feels so gross, and I hate it because he's a terrible person.

But you guys were in a pinch at the time, and that's what that money is for, is to help take care of your son, and that's what you guys did. So I would let go of that because emotionally, I think it is holding on to you so deeply.

Yeah.

In the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this. Instead of child support money from an abusive, awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced.

Yeah. Sarah, too, give yourself a little bit of grace. If this was a $60,000 thing or something, and you were like, Oh, my gosh, she was supposed to use it for a down payment on a house. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint, I feel like we could go at it a different way because I could see... The more money it is, the more weight it feels, right? With this 4,000, yeah, I want you to release it for you, Sarah. Again, it's not about the dollars at that point To me, it's that emotional attachment that's still there to him, and I want that release from you. Whatever that looks like with your own work.

I would have a goal for this money. Instead of letting it just sit there, it's only going to make he opened the wound. I would put it in a 529 plan for a college. I would put it in a savings account for a car fund one day because that day is going to come and these things cost money. It's part of the deal. It's a shared burden because that person was a parent and this is what the court ordered. It's hard to just say, Release the guilt, Sarah. You're doing great. But that's the truth of it. It's that hard and it's that simple to just go, All right, it happened. That was the past, and I'm going to make a better future for my kid now. It sounds like you guys are thriving, and this child is so lucky to have you two.

Yeah, he's definitely blessed. My husband is literally a godsend, and he took him on like his own. Like I said, nobody knows. There's a couple of people family knows, but he doesn't know. My husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for.

Well, and give yourself to so much credit, Sarah, because we talk to so many people on this show, and women, specifically, that are in a situation, and they don't feel like there's a way out. Whether from its financial type abuse, where husband's withholding and not allowing- Controlling? Yes, to physical, emotional. You can fill in the gaps. The spectrum is wide. To break that cycle is so, so difficult. As Dr. John Deloney says, who works with so many people in this area, says that it's rare to have someone actually break it. When you do, it is a- Something to be celebrated. It's an applause. That really is, Sarah. So I just commend you for that. I know that was 12 years ago, but that's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah, George, when we think about part of the baby steps and what she said, I loved because, yeah, it's baby step. They're past baby step two. They're moving on for that fully-funded emergency fund and so forth. And there is something so freeing from the sense of, yes, the dollars and cents are there. We're being wise with our actual tactical money. That's very important. But it's so much bigger It's more than that.

It is like the place where money sits in our lives, the value of which we give it. When you are out of debt, you have that emergency fund. You don't have to be obsessed with it. You don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well. What that speaks to your kids and a household is everything. To me, that's part of changing the family tree. It's not just from a monetary standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint, that money doesn't have to be a stress point in our lives because we have control over it.

Yeah, and there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents. But we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you to have a home that you own free and clear, for you to become a millionaire. It's something you get to choose, and it's a daily choice, and it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past, and your belief system is so tied up. You talk about this and know yourself, know your money, the different money classrooms you you up, and it really shapes you, and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff.

Totally, yeah. As parents, whatever you can do, we always say more is caught than taught, but from, again, that standpoint of money. We're going to get in control of our money because, yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money is going. We want to be debt free. We want to start investing and letting the math work for us, all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money is a tool. It is a tool to create a life that you love. That's what it is. It is not good, it is not bad, it doesn't have morals. How can that lesson and where money is placed in your life and in your heart and your identity, what your kids see, that speaks louder than words. This is The Ramsey Show.

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I like a So get your tickets today at ramsey solutions. Com/events, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to the phones, and we have Zack in Albany, New York. Hi, Zack. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. How are you? Thanks for having me on the show.

Absolutely. How can we help?

My wife and I are having a debate. We're on Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6, and we're having a debate as to whether to pay our house off or to buy a new vehicle.

All right. Tell me about the car. What car do you want to replace?

We want to replace her car. It's a smaller SUV, and it gets a little crammed with the baby seating there, and we may be expecting a second one. She would like to upgrade in vehicle so we're not crammed into her car.

Okay. It's more of a convenience upgrade, if you will, not that the car fallen apart and we have to replace it. So not urgent, but more just out of the convenience of life.

Stupide question. Could you get a slimmer baby seat and solve all of this?

I don't know if they make those, but I guess I could look.

Oh, they do. I've done my I see research, my friend. But anyways, let's talk more about this. What is that car going to cost that she wants?

She's looking at a GMC Yukon. We would buy used, not new.

How big is your baby, man? What's that? How big is your baby that you need a Yukon?

Well, we already have one, and we would like that. We may have maybe having a second one soon. So just comfort.

Okay. Yeah.

It would be in the price range of like 50 to 60,000.

George, be nice to Zack. 50,000?

Yeah, 50 to 60,000. We are on Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. We are Baby Steps Millionaires.

How much you guys make a year?

We made 290 this year, and we're on track to make about 315 this year. Incredible.

Good for you guys. Good for you guys.

What's left on the mortgage?

The mortgage is 186, and we would be paying cash from a brokerage account that's non-retirement, that we've been saving up for land. But we put a kabash on that idea since we may be having a second baby now.

Okay. Okay. How much is in there? Priorities have shifted. Yeah. How much is in the brokerage account?

About 80,000.

Okay. So either way, we're not going to pay off the house with this lump sum, but you're saying, should we take that 80 and put it toward the mortgage or toward the car?

Correct. So my thought was, I'm more of the saver, and my wife's a little bit more of the spender. My thought was, if we took the entire brokerage account, put it on the house, we could pay it off in about a year and a half, and then take the mortgage payment and everything else and save up for a car.

Okay.

Yes. I mean, so, yeah, either way, Zack, let me say this. Routes A or B would work, okay? So I always like to find, I don't know, road C. Is there a third option in there that feels good to both of you? Meaning you're running the numbers in the math. You're seeing, oh, my gosh, if we were to put 80 grand towards this house, you're putting it towards the principal. You're seeing the math really... It's on your side majorly in that way, Zack. So that totally makes sense. So I'm just wondering if you guys don't have a second kid. And I think what you both need to say, because you haven't really said it on this client, I think I just need to hear it from you, that you guys do not need this car, that people function with two babies and Camries all the time. And is it squished? Absolutely. But you guys would be okay. Can we say that out loud?

I 100 % agree. I'm trying to be a good husband and do right by my wife because I am the money nerd. Making the- And I know this is That's what she wants.

I hear you.

I hear you.

We're hard for our money. Totally. No, I hear you. And the car is not bad. Getting a Yukon is not bad, Zack, at all. But I want to make sure, because this is where lifestyle creep a little bit starts to play in. And I think if you both said, Yes, we do not need this. We would be fine. We could have two babies in the car that we have now. It's a small SUV. We would be fine. But I would love a great SUV. That's what I would love. Thank you. I would love it.

Rachel You said what I said just in a nicer way, and America loves her.

No. But I want her, and I want you guys to be on the same page of why you're buying it, because I don't want her to be like, No, no, no. It's like, I have to have this. It is just everything is just too small, and I can't do it. Because if that starts to be the mindset, what's going to end up happening, again, it's lifestyle creep. Your life just starts, you spend more and more and more and more, and what we need versus what we want starts to really blur. So I think I would feel better if I knew, Zack, that both of you were like, Yes, we do not need this car. We would like this car. Listen, Zack, I have a minivan. I would love a Yukon. I get it. I would want one. I don't need one, but I would- The car. I would want one.

Second caveat, she's not pregnant?

Well, she is. We just haven't told anyone yet.

Oh, we're the first. Oh, my gosh. Such an honor. Okay, that changes this.

Uncle George and aunt Rai Rai, we are the first to know the news.

Because it was like, Well, we might have one. Okay, Okay, well, might is different than she is pregnant. There is an actual timeline now of, all right, nine months from now, we would want a bigger car. This is coming from Mr. Frugality, who was like, I'm going to pay off the house before I upgrade my car. Now, we didn't have a kid then, so it's different. But I'm going, Hey, let's cash out the brokerage. We're going to pay some taxes on it. Let's buy her and set a budget, $50,000. We're going to get her a Yukon. Whatever's left, we're going to throw at the house, and then we're going to be gunhoe getting rid of this mortgage. Would that be a fair It's a plane plan?

Because either way- I think it's a plane plan. Yeah, that's a great option.

With your income, the house is paid off within a year or two, right?

Yeah, you guys are going to be fine, especially because of your income, right? If you guys were making 100 grands, I would slow all of this way down.

But you get- And say you're buying too much car. But you guys make $300,000.

Okay, I want my question answered, Zack. Do you think your wife... Would she emotionally say, Yes, this is a complete want. It's not like a need. We absolutely have to have it.

She acknowledges that it is a complete want. That's great. I'm more of the saver, but we're both pretty frugal. When she wants something, it's really not too often. I'm just trying to make that happen for her.

Totally. No, I hear you. Yes, you're a great husband, Zack. So, yeah, I would move forward. I would buy it. Again, especially since you guys for sure are having to. From an income standpoint, what you guys have left on the mortgage and all of it, I think you guys will be in a great position.

You guys are baby steps millionaires. I'm just curious, are you going to buy new or slightly used?

No, he said used.

It would be certified.

Certified, okay. Good move. Good man. Let someone else take that first hit on depreciation. Yeah, you guys are doing it by the book. I'm proud of you guys There's no wrong answer here, but I would defer to the pregnant woman because I'm scared of them.

Me too.

You don't want to mess with them, man.

I'm just saying. It's a sensitive line there, huh?

This is a very similar situation because my wife wanted the Bougey Mom SUV, and it hurt my soul because I can do math, but life isn't math. She wanted the car. We saved up, we paid cash for it, and she loves it. It's fine. It was her dream. I don't need to make everything my dream.

I will say babies can make everything very emotional, though. I'm glad that Zack stick into the facts and the numbers, and the numbers look great. So present permission to spend, Zack.

A Yukon can hold two seven-pound babies, at least.

Bare minimum. Bare minimum. And congrats, Zack. We are excited for you.

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Today's question comes from Alexis in Tennessee. We recently received credit cards in the mail from my son and daughter who are both under the age of 12. When I showed them to my husband, he responded that he had taken them out in our children's names to help them establish a credit score before they became adults. We have followed your principles for years, so I was shocked that he did this without talking to me about it. How should I handle this situation? This feels like there's a tinge of financial infidelity here. Behind her back opened up credit cards in the kid's names.

So weird. Yes. And not mention it. In the way that when You said we've followed the principles for years. I'm assuming that means you guys are on the same page or talking about money. There's some couples that they don't know what the other one's doing. But if you are following a level of Ramsey, then that means you are connected and you're talking about money. The fact that he didn't bring it up, that feels very off to me. Very off. Yeah. And the fact he opened up credit cards in your kid's names.

Well, I'm guessing it's in his name, and they got cards with their names on it as authorized users.

Yeah, because if you take out a Yeah, a line of credit for a child, right?

I mean, you- It's a trend because of these TikTok videos where they go, Hey, parents, here's a life hack for you. Add your kids as authorized users, and they can take your credit score when they're 18 and have great credit so they can go get some more debt. Yeah.

Well, what we've heard, too, is people calling the show saying, Yeah, my parents took out debt in my name to build up a good credit score, and then they ended up- Destroying my credit. Yeah, destroyed the credit because they couldn't handle it. And so you're just like, Oh, it's... Yeah. And it It needs to be a fine line, too, of identity theft. I'm like, You know what I mean? It's to a point of like- There was no consent here. I mean, yeah. I don't like it. I don't like playing the game. But a lot of it is a TikTok trend.

Yeah. We have an article here related to this. Parents are gaming their kids credit scores, and it's around the same idea of stories of people who had their parents add them as authorized users. There's some horror stories in there. There's some explanation, but it says many are taking advantage of these tools. A 2019 poll commissioned by creditcards. Com, that's perfect, 8% of roughly 1,500 American parents surveyed said that at least one of their minor children had a credit card, presumably through authorized usership, because kids under 18 can't get their own card. Transunion data showed that nearly 700,000 22 to 24-year-olds had authorized user accounts. Oh, dang.

Yeah.

Here's the thing. I don't think these are terrible people. They're just well-meaning parents who have fallen for the system, who go, This is the path. They got to have the credit score because otherwise, how are they going to rent an apartment and how are they going to travel? And they can't book airlines with that. And I'm going, Have you ever tried a different route? You don't need to do all this giration to live your financial life. Yes.

There's so much more freedom, you guys, when you're chasing the credit score, you can live life without a credit score. You can do everything you just said without a credit score. It is possible. You can even get a house through manual underwriting without a credit score. And so, yeah, I think, like you said, it's good intentions them going in and saying, I'm going to try to set my kids up. But you're falling right into the system that gets so many people, millions of people stuck and in that wheel of debt. It's like, it's not worth it. It's not worth playing the game. And then let alone having any level of risk for another human being of their financial well-being, that if you screw this up, it doesn't just hurt you. It's hurting your kids then at that point. It's a mess.

It is absolutely bonkers. I cover this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores, a whole chapter on credit cards, and I unpack how to live life outside of the system It's not as complicated or as difficult as people would have you believe. Yes. In fact, it's way more peaceful. It's way more simple. I don't have 16 cards to manage to try to get the rotating cashback rewards. I have a debit card, and I use it, and it has my money on it, and when that money is gone, it is gone.

You know what's funny, George? I feel like when things are less complicated, they feel less sophisticated, right? Everyone's like, Oh, but that's so boring.

That can't be the smartest way.

Yeah, there's got to be so many other hoops to jump through. You can live your life that way, financially. You can. But you're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted, again, with a system that is set up to screw you. That's what it is. It's not there to free you. And for you to be financially free, they want you in the system because they make so much money off of you. But when you exit out of the system and you're like, you know what? I'm going to live with a debit card, with cash. We're going to save up and pay for things, and we're not going to sit here and try to play the industry's games over and over and over and over and over the mental dance and gymnastics that you have to play.

So here's a wild concept. What if as a parent, you taught your kids how to manage money instead of managing debt? That's all a credit score is, is how well you manage debt. It doesn't reflect how much money you have in the bank. It doesn't reflect your income. It just reflects your relationship with the lender. That's how I'm aiming with my kid. I'm going, they're not going to... They're going to look at people with credit scores and credit cards going, Why are they doing all that work, dad? And I'm like, I don't know, America, it's crazy. It's lost their minds.

It's crazy out there. Oh, Man, yeah. Parents don't take credit cards out and don't be an authorized user.

Don't say you follow our principles for years while you still clearly have credit cards. You don't get to pick and choose. This isn't a buffet.

This isn't a buffet. Get out of here. Get out of here. All right, let's go to Shane in Saint Paul. Hi, Shane. Welcome to the show.

Thanks, Rachel, for taking my call. How are you today?

We are doing great. Glad you called in. How can we help?

Thank you. Well, I'm a relatively new listener. We're on Baby Step number 2. My question is, we have probably about $17,500 in credit card debt and a couple of other small loans. We have some money set aside, and I was wondering, is there any way that you can deviate from that snowball plan?

Tell me. Yeah. Why would you want to? What are the numbers you're seeing, Shane, because it usually comes down to numbers.

Okay. Basically, the biggest one we have is we have a credit card with a high interest rate that has a balance of about $10,000.

Okay. What's the interest rate on that?

It's like 18. 5%, I think.

Okay.

Then we have another credit card with the balance of 7,500, and that interest rate is 9. 9%. Then we have a small home improvement loan with the balance of $350 that you have to pay off. Then I have a I got a work loan that I got through my work with zero % interest, and I have a balance of $800 on that.

Okay. How much you guys have saved?

Well, we just got taxes back, and so we have about 14,500.

Amazing. Oh, my gosh.

The math doesn't matter that much because you've just knocked out all the debts but the last credit card in this scenario.

Right. I guess my question is, would it make sense to pay off the highest one, the $10,000 first, and then pay the two small loans, and then whatever is left pay on that last credit card?

No. I mean, listen, if you're doing the math, I understand what you're saying because of the interest rate. What we always talk about on this show, Shane, and what you're going to start to realize is that personal finance and winning with money is so much more about your behavior than it is about math. And so if we were all chasing math, we wouldn't be in debt in the first place, right? So it's not a math problem. It really is us winning. And so the fact that you do have a bulk of money, which is That's absolutely amazing. What that does to me, that jump starts. I mean, tonight, you could have that $800 paid off, that 350. I mean, those are just like ankle biters, right? You're just like, you just need to get in there and just get them done with. Then to pay off a 7,000 $500 credit card in full and it be completely done.

And knock the next debt down to probably around six grand or four grand.

That's right.

You have an extra. You have almost six grand to throw at the 10K debt. You'd be down about $4,000 left. So the 18% interest, the way you're going to attack this thing, it's not going to amount to much.

Because you're not going to be in debt, Shane, that much longer. When you're looking from a math standpoint, you guys could take on extra jobs and get that paid off in two months.

You throw a thousand bucks a month in this thing, it's gone in four months.

Yeah. So it's going to be so quick that the math at that point doesn't matter. But I'm excited for you. You said you're a new collar, so I'm so glad that you're joining in.

And using that refund for good instead of a vacation because you deserve it.

Amen. Well done, Shane. Well done. Well, thanks to all the men and women in the booth making this show happen. George, thank you. Thanks to our great audience here in Nashville, Tennessee. And thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachael Cruz, hosting this hour with best-selling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Hamel. And so give us a call at 888-824. Com. 5, 5, 2, 2, 5, and we're answering your questions on life, money, relationships.

The pursuit of happiness.

Anything and everything. So give us a call. To kick us off this hour, we have Jeff in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jeff. Welcome Welcome to the show.

Hello. How are you today?

We are doing great. How can we help?

Well, my question is, we are looking to take what I would consider an extravagant vacation this summer.

My favorite That is the thing in the world, Jeff. That is so exciting.

You're the right person. She's going to say yes.

Well, then let's just get the yes and move on. Basically, looking for confirmation that it's something that would be okay to do Here's, I'll tell you a little bit of the history, and then we'll get into the numbers. My wife and I were early to mid-forties. We've got three kids at home. One of them graduates next year, and we'll have to report to school sometime summer of next year for sports. This is the last year to be able to take a family vacation and have that oldest one go with us. All in We're looking at $9,200. It is seven days, two days is travel, okay? Mm-hmm. Oceanfront, all-inclusive resort, and going to the Caribbean. About 4,000 of that 92 is light.

Oh, yeah. It's so expensive.

Because getting out of the Midwest is horrible.

Yeah, it's terrible.

That includes vehicle rental when we get there, excursions, going I have to eat a little bit, even though it is all-inclusive, trying some of the local food.

You've done your due diligence, Jeff. You have a- You've traveled plan like no one else. You have detailed it out. Okay, so where are you guys financially? Do you guys have debt? Do you have savings?

I'll run through all the numbers here. Household income gross is 335 to 370, depending on bonuses, which happens every year, so probably close closer to that 370 number. The only debt that we have is our house. We owe 273 on it, purchased it in 2021, 3% fixed, bought it for The evaluation is 620.

How much in savings?

Ira, we've got 396.

They're just your normal cash savings, like emergency fund plus whatever else. The emergency fund, we've got 53,000 $1,600, which a six-month emergency is $2,400.

All right, Jeff. Another savings account. Jeff.

If this was the voice, I'd hit the buzzer, I'd spend my chair and select you.

Jeff, I want you to upgrade your room and spend a little bit more and go on this trip.

I'm a little mift. You're only spending nine grand.

I know. Go upgrade you and your wife to first class. Spend a little more, Jeff. I'm not kidding. You are 100% okay. If anything, Yeah, you got some wiggle room, Jeff. I mean, okay, that was fun. In your IRA, 396,000 is what you said. What do you guys have for your 401(k)?

In the me trade account, we've got 27,5. 401(k) is horrible, but we're now putting 15% in, so it'll be caught up very quickly. 246 between the both of us. Then outside of the emergency fund of 53,6, just in another savings account, we've got 53,000. Then around 15,000 in the bank account.

I've lost track of how much money you guys have. You have that much. You're doing great. Is your wife the same way as you?

Jeff, do you all- Yeah.

Does she have fun?

Do you all have fun? We've got three kids Yeah. We're always chasing them around. Sure.

I'm messing with you, Jeff. I'm messing with you. Yes.

We don't live extravagant or anything. Vehicles are paid off. They are a few a few years older, but there's no sense in buying a new vehicle when you can get one a few years older that's low miles for half the cost.

Jeff, you're a jewel of a human being.

You're my spirit animal, Jeff. I appreciate you.

George wants to be you when he grows Jeff is basically. I can't wait.

That is- That's- A good seven years from now, this is what I have to look forward to. My wife convincing me. I don't know. Jeff, I'm much rather have more than 246 in the 401k.

Jeff, I think you will be totally fine. I'm really excited for you, Jeff. I've talked about this a lot on the show because I think it was one of these moments that I heard this, and I thought, That is so good. Arthur Brooks talks about there's five things you can do with money. Four will actually buy you happiness. Like your brain, scientifically, has a level of happiness in it. One thing you can do with money that has no happiness. The first one is to give, be generous. You actually can buy some happiness doing that. A saving actually creates a level of happiness because there's progress being made. And in our psychology, it's good for us to see progress. There's one about buying your time back. So having someone mow the lawn, right? And you use that time to go-We do that, yeah. Yeah, hang with a friend. And then the fourth one, Jeff, you ready? The fourth way to literally buy happiness is to buy experiences with the people you love. So that can be a great dinner out. That can be a vacation. So I'm saying, oh, and then the fifth thing that does not buy happiness is buying stuff.

You get a temporary hit, and then no long term happiness through that. You are doing this very wisely. And this is something that we always say, you want to give, you want to save, you want to spend, and this is your spend. And I want I want you to spend it in this way because I think it's going to be such a fun week for you and your family. Yes, you have our full permission, and you have my permission to upgrade you and your wife to first class. So just take that. Take that little night out if you want.

So just tell your wife, Rachel said we could. Then when you get back from the trip, everyone gets a $1,000 shopping spree.

Stop. Here we go. No, because then you're buying stuff, George. He's not going to get happiness doing that.

I'm just saying. I feel like the kids would really like you for that.

Yeah, no. It's Well, the kids, I will say the kids do not want for anything, but they also have got reasonable expectations as well because we've tried to raise them to not want what everybody else has. So good.

You've raised some great kids. I'm just surprised they want to go on vacation with you guys at this stage of their life. That's the best part, that you raise kids who like you. Yeah.

Well, the the oldest one, the 17-year-old, it depends on the day. But the other two, they're under 12, so mom and dad are still pretty awesome.

Jeff, this is going to be so fun. I'm messing with you, but honestly, one of the most powerful financial principles is contentment. Jeff, you just sound like such a content guy. Like, your priorities are so in line. When you live like no one else, we always say you get to live and give like no one else. Jeff, they're going to be living like no one else in the Caribbean with a paid for vacation, making great money and just doing it.

It's awesome. Jeff will be tracking it in his Excel spreadsheet.

Jeff will be- He's the dad who had the MapQuest printed out, ready to go for the trip.

This is the dad I aspire to be.

A hundred %. I love it. Jeff's going to know.

They make such a great income. I am not worried for a second about their retirement. No.

It's $9,000, right? It's not $29,000 or something. We're not talking about that.

Based on what he said, they're already Baby Steps millionaires. They're very close to it in their early 40s.

Jeff, I really am. I'm so excited for you and your family. Enjoy that Caribbean vacation.

It's going to be so fun. Send us a picture when you come back.

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Well, if you are a business owner or you know someone who is, you know that running a business is hard. It's a lot of work. A lot of energy goes into that. And as you look back at the challenges that you face when it comes to building a business the right way, Dave Ramsey really took a moment and said, Yeah, I've been through this journey, and I want to put some of these principles and what I've learned about building a business into a book. And so he has a new book out called Build a Business You Love. You can pre-order it now for $2,999 and get over $315 of free bonus items. Thank you. My gosh, which is early access to the e-book, an enhanced audiobook, and instant access to the Entree Leadership Hiring Playbook. So you can order today at ramseyolutions. Com/store, or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will put the link down in the description. All right, let's go to Claire in San Diego. Hi, Claire. Welcome to the show.

Hi, guys.

Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. How can we help?

So my question is surrounding dating and finances. I'm looking for advice you have on dating debt and things to think about for the future. I have a boyfriend who's a little older than me. He has a really stable job He lives down here in San Diego, and we've been talking about moving forward in our relationship. Everything's really good.

All our values align, our faith align.

There's really good companionship, but it's come out that he has about 70K in debt. Just the background that I come from, I'm not sure how comfortable I am committing to taking on that debt with some of the habits I've seen. He wants to be in a better place with his finances, but he does like to shop and go out and do a lot of things. He's put about four years to be able to pay off that debt, but I feel like it could maybe be a little sooner. I'm not sure if I have the full picture. I'm wondering what questions would be good to bring into a conversation, what things to look for, what actions need to be taken, or any advice you guys have.

All right. It's a great question. This 70,000, do you feel like he hid that in any way and it's just come out recently, or was Is it a sense that you guys just started talking about the subject and he just happened to say, Oh, yeah, I'm dead. 70,000 worth? Was it more secretive or was it, No, we just ended up talking about the subject, and then he told me?

No, it was more talking about the subject. He had told me earlier in our dating relationship and just the timing of it, I didn't cry for numbers or anything.

Now that we've been talking a little more seriously, I'm crying for numbers.

It's around 50K of student loans, and then about 20 to 30 in car payment.

Okay. I always think when it comes to relationships and debt, it's not always the debt that scares me. I mean, if you guys ended up going long term, yeah, you would be helping pay the 70 grand off for sure if you guys got married. But again, the debt, couples have tackled more than that coming into a relationship. So I would not not marry someone because of that, personally. But it's more the value system, what you were speaking about earlier, that can raise some red flags. So I'm trying to get Claire from you because knowing that opposites attract, and that is so normal. Okay, so Winston would probably describe me the way you describe town, that she likes to shop and she likes to spend money, and Winston would save till the day is long, and that's all. So there's going to be savers, there's going to be spenders. There's going to be the person in the relationship that loves knowing every single number of everything, and they have Excel sheets, and they have the Every Dollar app. They're doing everything possible where the other one's like, Oh, yeah, we're on track. We're good. I don't need to know every single little detail.

That's the free spirit. So there is going to be a give and take and a personality tendency with money. So I'm trying to get a check from you. Is it just a different tendency? And he just spends because he probably is more of a spender. Or do you feel like, no, it's bigger than that? There's a problem, there's a problem, There's an issue here, and that's what I'm trying to gage from you. What do you think?

I think that's what I'm trying to figure out. I come from a family that's all savers, so I feel like I haven't really experienced the opposite of that. I feel like I feel like it's a little bit sometimes like, oh, that little instant gratification of I just got this little knack, but then sometimes it's experiences. Dating, he's taking me out to do some really fun things as well, so he has value on both of those things, and I'm just trying to figure out from him in a way that's healthy.

Yeah, totally.

Healthy for a dating relationship, what that habit is.

Yeah, for sure. So I think some questions I would ask is, is that value standpoint that you don't want to be having someone that's going into debt to do these things, right? That you want the baselines covered, and that's a level of wisdom. And being out of debt, having an emergency fund, having savings, all of that, that is wisdom. And we won all of those first and foremost. And then if there's some extra that, yeah, we can spend on top of that. But making sure with him like, Hey, is living with debt in that lifestyle, what does that look like for you? What's that value system? And if he really is like, Oh, yeah, I don't want to. I want to be able to get out, and I don't want to live with credit cards and debt and all of that, then that's a checkpoint, right? It's like, Okay, that's good. And then you can even ask them, because all spenders, I think, understanding our motivation, or I would say savers, too, understanding the motivation of why you do things gets to the heart of it. And so the motivation in that, and for spenders, sometimes the motivation is fine.

And it's like, yeah, it's just a thing I wanted. I saved up. I have the cash for it. I'm not under some illusion that this purchase is somehow going to make me happy for the rest of my life. I'm not bought into this illusion of marketing and all of that. I just wanted the thing, and it's great. But then sometimes, Claire, as a spender, and I can speak for myself, I ask my question a lot of, Okay, Rachel, why Why are you buying this? And if I can be as honest as possible, I'm bored, and I want some excitement, and that's why I'm doing it. Or I always ask myself, if nobody sees this purchase, do I still want it? How much of my motivation of having and buying something is for other people, not even myself? So getting to more the heart of the why behind it, I think may help you see either, Oh, yeah, that gives me some peace. If you can have some level of awareness of why, because the way we spend our money always is going to tell a story about ourselves. So understanding that. Or maybe, Claire, you find out some things and you're like, That feels like a slippery slope, right?

I think through some of those conversations will be interesting. But I will say for you, it's going to be a little bit difficult. So give him some grace because you are coming from, like you said, you're a saver. You're raised by savers, and you're like, I don't even know what this alien, which is a spender, looks like. How do they function and are they okay? You know what I mean? Yeah. Give them some grace there, but I think have some discernment around it, I think, is important.

Would he be willing to go through Financial Peace University with you and go, Hey, I understand. I grew up in a different context. I grew up learning about how to manage money. It may be something he just didn't have. If he's willing to learn and willing to get on a plan, that's a green flag. But if he goes, No, I'm good. I'm going to do my thing, that would be a red flag to pause moving forward in this relationship.

Okay, yeah. I bought it up once and it was not brushed off. I was like, Oh, yeah, that would be cool. So maybe it's something I bring back up.

Okay. Do you know how much he makes?

He makes about 140 a year.

Okay, so he makes great money, which tells me- In San Diego, though. In San Diego, it doesn't go as far.

I was just wondering, is this on fire?

It is great money. Does he need to get rid of the car yesterday? Has he had any sense of urgency when he talked to him? He has two cars.

No. He has two cars. His family history doesn't seem crazy great with money from what I've seen. It's a little bit living in excess, then you don't really have the means to do so.

Yes. Yeah. That's a good observation. I feel like he's just doing what- He sees and what he knows. What's familiar to him on that.

The second car, he said in the past that it's something he could easily sell if he wanted to and not have to make the car payment.

He has two car payments, and one of… It's just toys for him.

Exactly. One's paid off, one's not.

But the second one's just a toy. I Again, I'm not trying to defend him by any means because, again, it could just be a mess, Claire, and you may be like, Oh, my gosh. But like you said, he may be just doing what he has seen and doesn't know a difference. Then another bucket I would put, not to vilify his family by any means, but to be like, Hey, what are things that your family does with money that you like, and what are things that you don't like, and ask them open-ended questions, and then seek his humility. Is he willing to learn and do something different? If he's stubborn in something in a way, again, that's more of the yellow red flag. There's some digging there, but just because he's a spender, Claire.

I hope he's willing to change because Claire is worth it.

She is. You are worth it, Claire. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Going to the phones, we have Paul in Washington, DC. Hey, Paul. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks, guys. This is such an honor. You guys have been such a blessing to my wife and I as we got through Financial Peace University. So thank you so much.

Amazing. Yes, absolutely. Well, thanks for doing Thanks for being a listener. How can we help?

Yeah, so here's our situation. My brother and sister-in-law surprised us by opening a 529 for our newborn son. At first, we were appreciative. But when we asked how it works, since we didn't really know much about the logistics of 529, they revealed to us that we can't contribute since the 529 is under their name, and that we would have to ask for permission, their permission for how the money is going to be later deployed. Now, for us, it doesn't really feel right going to my older brother to ask for money for my son's college, let alone getting their decisions for our son education. Yeah, 100%.

With their opinion for our son's education. Yeah, 100%. This is crazy, Paul. Why would they do that? I don't understand why they wouldn't just open it up in the child's name and then hand you guys over the account. Why do they want control over that?

That's the part of the question that we're talking about today is, number one, just understanding 529, but also just more or less handling family logistics of this. Now, just to add context, I do work in a family business, politically for my brother, right? Okay. So we are planning on changing jobs eventually. Now, of course, we're thinking that we're creating a situation where the 529 almost creates a financial dependency on them that might create future tensions down on the road. So ultimately, we want to know your guys' thoughts about family members opening 529 for their relatives, in this case, their nephew, and what you think we should do. So, yeah, because we're trying to... All these are great people, right? This is our family. We love them. But we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing, too, with setting up for our son so that he has the liberty and us as parents, the responsibility to help him for college.

A hundred %.

So, yeah, that's our contact.

Yeah. I mean, no, your line of thinking is is spot on. Again, I go back to… It's so interesting to me that they want that level of control because you can open up a 529 in a child's name, and you give all the rights to the parents, and then the parents just handle the account over there, right? I mean, that does happen. Family members do that. So I don't understand why they still want control over it.

Yeah, because we did have a conversation with them first thanking them, and we did ask them if they were able to switch it over from their name into our name so that we would just take control from there on out, give the keys to the card to us, which they declined that, and they insisted that this was their gift, and they wanted to ban it.

But are you telling me, is your child the beneficiary on that account?

Our child is the beneficiary. That's correct.

Okay, got it. Because you said they opened it in their name, and I went, Wait, what? Are they putting themselves as the beneficiary? But no, your child is the beneficiary, but they are the owner of the account. That's the part that gives you pause. Here's what I would do. I wouldn't count on it.

I just want to accept it.

Anyone can open an account for anyone. That's the thing is you just go, Hey, I'm going to ignore it. If there's money there and they choose to give it to your son, wonderful. But I would plan for your own child's college and act like this is gravy on top if it ever comes to fruition.

Sure. Okay. Ultimately... Yeah, sorry. You go ahead first.

No. Well, yeah. Paul Gosh, the strings attached element, that's what I'm trying to get at, is the element when it comes to families and giving gifts, right? We talk to a lot of people on the show, and there's a fine line between enabling. Some people call and like, Oh, my gosh, my sister still needs money because she can't hold a job. Am I enabling her or am I helping her? That's the conversation. But when it's over here with just a gift and they say, Yeah, we want to be able to help our nephew, the healthiest way to do that is no strings attached. That I am giving this to you. I don't need control over that anymore because it's a gift. It is now yours. Because it's in your child's name, you, as the parent, should be responsible for that. You're knee-jerk in this, and you're exactly right. That gets very messy, especially if they are wanting a say over how he's going to use it when he's 18.

What happens if he goes to a college they don't like or gets a degree they disagree with? Now it's awkward. For those reasons.

And they're not the parents.

I wouldn't worry about it. You can have multiple 529s in a child's I would open one up that you guys control, and I would fund that. If people want to gift money, have it funded in there. If they want to put money in this account and they want to give it to your kid one day, that's great. But again, I wouldn't count on it, but I also wouldn't be like, I would let go of the resentment over this. Unless you think there's malicious intent, it might just be them going, Hey, we want control over this if we dump the money in.

I understand. Now, one other aspect to this is, should we have a mature conversation with them and decline the 529 offering now, just because I don't want this thing to turn into a mess later, where it grows up to maybe a good size, which then they become resentful that they put in all this work and effort for their nephew, we need to have the parents later.

Well, here's the thing. You can change a beneficiary anytime. So if your kid doesn't use it or they have whatever kids, they have grandkids, other nephews they want to change it to, that's their right as the owners of the account. And so it's nothing for you decline. If they offer it and you don't want it, then that's on you.

Okay, you wouldn't have a conversation, George. See, this is where George- If it was my older brother, I'd be like, Hey, man, this just feels weird. Yeah, I would sit down and have the conversation, Paul. I would, and just say, Hey, yeah, it And put it on you, right? It's not, Oh, you're doing this. I don't feel comfortable as Paul, the dad. Yeah, I don't feel 100 % comfortable because I don't know what the next 18 years is going to look like for my child, and I just want to be able to know that, number one, college is funded and that as parents, we're going to be able to do that and we're going to do that on the side. And depending on what he wants to do with that money, I want us as a family unit to be able to make those decisions together and not involve you guys in all of them. And so that's really what we're setting up for our family. Thank you so much for the offer. If you guys want to continue to put money in there or it just sits over there, that's totally fine. And maybe at 18, he may use it.

He also may not. I don't want to tie my son to this either. So if you guys, emotionally, are great with it, have an empty hand and say exactly what George said, that if he doesn't end up using in this account, you can actually move actually $35,000 over to a Roth IRA. There's an option there. Or move it to another child in the family. That's an option. But I want all of this just to be said out loud as we start this, and that's what we're feeling and thinking. But thank you so much. I mean, that's so you guys to even offer. But I'm not 100 % comfortable with every element of that deal.

Yeah, you guys are the best. This was extremely helpful and gave a lot of clarity to a, hopefully not complicated family situation. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's an interesting one.

Yeah, I want to know what's underneath all of this? Or is there any sibling? He's in a family business with his brother, and so there might be more to this that we can probably need to unpack in a therapy session versus the Ramsey show, but there might be more to this.

Yeah, there could be 100%. Yeah, I mean, we get I guess.

It's the best case, it wasn't malicious, and they just go, Well, we're funding it, so I feel like we should have a say. And that's okay to say, No, we're not comfortable with that.

Wouldn't that feel so weird, though, George? I can imagine saying that to a niece or nephew, I'm funding this.

My brother loves our daughter.

For William and Lydia, but I want to say over what Lydia is going to do. I don't know. I don't know. That feels so odd to me.

Yeah. If my brother opened an account for my daughter and said, Well, you don't get a say, and I get to control where this money gets used and how, I'd be No, then we're good.

I mean, yeah. And especially a 529 because it's for education. It's not like it's this big trust fund, and it's like, Hey, I want to make sure the 18-year-old is semi-mature before they get this money. But from a character standpoint, it can only be used for education. So I'm like, I don't know. There's not much you can screw up there. Unless Paul's... I'm kidding, Paul. I was going to say, unless the brother is like, Oh, Uncle Paul, he's not good with money, but I think you are, Paul. So I trust you in that.

I just want to know what? We need the brother online to go, Well, he's going to go to a liberal arts college. I'm not going to give you that.

We should start a new show, the Family Conflict Show.

Hey, Paul, we got your brother online. That would be amazing.

The surprise.

Come on out.

You are the uncle.

That's a little too morey for me. Maury. Maury.

It has a little bit of that feel to it. Oh, man. Good times. Well, Paul, I hope that helps. And I hope, like George said, that it's- Open up your own five.

Here's what I say, Rachel, go fund yourself. You like that? That's as edgy as I get on a family-friendly show.

You're crazy, George.

Go fund your own kids 529 and not worry about what everyone else is doing.

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All right, let's go to Savannah, Georgia, and we've got Blake on the Hi, Blake. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you guys so much. I'm so excited to talk with you guys. Thank you.

Oh, so glad you called. How can we help?

Yeah. I'm calling you guys today because I really need a little bit of guidance with this part of our lives. I've been married for seven years. We got a daughter, she's about five years old. We were living as missionaries in South America. Unfortunately, we had to come off the field around July last year. We I've been readjusting to life here in the States, which when we were gone and came back to the States, we were blown away at some of the prices because they weren't the same as they were years ago, right? Oh, yeah. Whenever we decided that it was finally time to We got readjusted. We both got jobs. My wife makes about 31,000 a year. I'm making about, a little embarrassed about it, but I'm making about $1,600 to $1,800 a month. And so the only The debt that we have, including our vehicle right now, is under $15,000. We did the every dollar budget as well. But the only hope I have of... I mean, right now, the only hope that I currently see, if I stay at my current job, which is as a custodian, in December, I'll have an opportunity to adjust all of our benefits.

When I cancel everything out, I'll be receiving about 580 $2,8 extra a month. We'll get around to the $2,200-$2,400 a month for me. My wife will stay about $2,100 a month. The only other options I have right now is to sub as a substitute And the only thing I've been doing extra so far is to... I've been trying my hand at door-dashing, and sometimes that's not been the very best ideas, but I'm not really sure what to do because the only degrees I have are from my Bible College. And so we got a master's in Ministry. How old are you guys, Blake? I'm 34, and my wife is 29.

Okay, so great. Well, let me first just say, I would not be embarrassed by that amount. I think that you're doing hard work, and you guys are just shifting what life has looked like. I mean, up until this point, yeah, you guys were living one life. You're coming back and doing something else, right? And so that That does not speak to who you are as a person. And so much in our world, our salaries and our income and our networth becomes our self-worth, right? That is such an American mindset. I understand it feels defeating because you're like, I'm working really hard, and I feel like I'm not making enough to support my family. All of that, that tension, I'm so glad to hear because also we get calls on the show and they're like, My husband won't go to work, and we don't have enough to make ends meet.

Because they won't swallow their pride.

Yeah, they won't swallow their pride and just do what you're doing. There's so much upside for you, Blake, even from just the attitude of how you're approaching all of this. Just hear us say that first and foremost. Who you are in your character, honestly, is what takes you far in life. It's usually not a college degree in which you got your degree in, quote, unquote, because half the people don't even use their degree. And so I think there's a lot of upside. So I'm curious, Blake, for you, you're 34. What would you want to be doing at 40? What is a job? What is a career path? What is a line of work that gets you excited?

The thing I've always been excited about was when I was 15, man, for us, God's been a big part of our lives, and he saved me when I was 15. The most exciting thing in the world was seeing missionaries come by our church, and I'm like, Man, I answered that call to go. Well, when we had to come off through a lot of tears and stuff, we couldn't go back. I don't think right now that's an option, but I would love to be in ministry, regardless regardless of what we're making. But the only thing that I've ever done that I've enjoyed was putting what I've learned into other people. I guess that would be called mentoring. But I'm not really sure work-wise what the answer to that would be. I'm sorry.

No, you don't have to be sorry at all.

We're going to give you a resource to help with that. Before we leave the call, our phone screener is going to pick up and give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It comes with a get clear career assessment. I want you and your wife to take that because I just think you guys can do better, you need to do better for your family. That's going to mean finding a career you can sink your teeth into instead of just odd jobs. Let me also tell you this, any job can be a ministry. I know that you can work within the church system, and that can be a real blessing. But, man, there is so much ministry to be done outside of the church, too. I want you to know that there is immense purpose regardless of where the Lord takes you. I hope that it just encourages you to look beyond the scope of just, well, if I'm not a missionary, who am I? What am I going to do?

Right. Yeah, thank you for that. I'd love to take the assessment.

Yeah. You said you did your every dollar budget. I'm curious, how much does it take to run your household each month?

I know we're about, the last time I looked at it about three weeks ago is the first time that I did it, and that's how I got connected with you guys. We're about $734 in the red. Okay. If we're bringing home about $3,800 a month, then we're In the hole, I guess, about $4,500 from where we're renting right now.

How much is your rent?

The rent is $1,375. This was the cheapest thing we could find in our area.

Yeah. I mean, it's not expensive. Yeah. So I'm curious, Blake, is there anything in the area that for the meantime, that instead of trying to pair, because you could pair two or three side hustles together. It's just going to be exhausting, and that's not sustainable long term. So I'm just wondering from your primary income, Is there anything out there that's paying? Because right now you're making, what, 27?

You're making 20K a year right now, which is about 10 bucks an hour.

After taxes. Yes, sir. I'm wondering, anything working at Walmart, you're going to make more than that. But is there anything in your area that you're able to make 40, 50 grand?

I've been looking for ever since July, and I've been trying to find that answer The only things that we've got for entry-level work is about 16: 50 an hour. Right now, we're getting about 16: 75 because we put into benefits, unfortunately, at the school. That won't change until next year when we can cancel those. All the entry-level work is about 15: 50 to 16: 50, unless you specialize or have a degree in something or have prior experience to it.

I'm even wondering if there's people in your area that Yeah. Because Ken Coleman talks about this a lot, that so much of our work and getting that next step or that next job is more about the people you know. It's not about the application. In your realm of people, just thinking- Maybe your church community even asking around there? Yeah. If there's a business owner and they need admin work, right? I mean, anything like that or even some remote jobs, Blake, which might drive you nuts being in the house all day. I don't know because you're probably an active guy. But if there's anything within your community, I think that's going to be your best bet, Blake, between now and the next year, instead of putting together, which you can, and you're going to have to do something soon because you can't be in the red for long.

Can you guys cut your expenses? It still feels like there's a lot. I mean, you still have thousands more in expenses every month, even beyond your rent.

Sure. When we went to it, we actually adjusted it to what would be the most ideal situation for us, and we completely We cut out every extra spending that we were doing.

How much is the car payment a month?

That one is 275. We owe about 8,300 more on it. I don't think we could even… That was another lesson learned, but I don't know that we could sell it for enough to be able to purchase another- You're underwater on it. Yeah. Is that what it's underwater? Yeah.

Is that the only debt you guys have?

Other than that, we just have four credit cards. So since we started your budget, we paid off my lowest one, about 500 something. We paid half of my wife's lowest one after that. So we're doing the snowball.

Okay, that's great. You guys are making progress. But we get started that month. Okay. Yeah, that's great. I mean, between now and March, I probably would be doing some side hustle stuff. If there's anything that you can do that goes straight to the consumer, we always find that you're going to make more doing that. Even if that's tutoring, you said that you're a substitute teacher. If you can even tutor, doing something like that for the meantime, but looking for that main income to go up is going to be the key. And getting you on that right path, we're going to give you Ken Coleman's career assessment. So make sure to do that, Blake. If anyone else is new like Blake and you want to know where you are with the Baby Steps, make sure to go and check your progress and receive a personalized plan. And you can click the link in the show notes, which is titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? And complete that quiz. And this hour is up, George. We'll see all of you guys live on radio and in the Ramsey app coming next.