Transcript of Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. What up? We are answering your questions. Give us a call at 888-885-825-5-225. And I feel like we need to give a little shout-out. This weekend is our money and marriage getaway. We have 600- Ballentine's weekend. Ballentine's weekend. We have 600 couples coming to Nashville, and there's a bunch of them here in our lobby today watching the show, which is so fun. We are here, though, live, taking your calls. Give us a call. Talk about your life, your money, your relationships. First up, we have Brian in Billings, Montana. Hey, Brian. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. What's up, dude?

Absolutely. How can we help?

My soon-to-be ex-wife and I bought a house a year ago, last February. Then this last October, she decided that she wanted a divorce. She already moved out, and I decided to try and keep the house by myself. After we purchased the house, she racked up $10,000 in credit card debt. I've been working really hard to get this down, but it seems like after all bills that I pay every month, I have maybe an extra $100 I can throw at it. It just seems like at this rate, it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off. I don't know if it's smart to keep or sell the house at this point.

Were the credit cards in your name that she racked up after the divorce? They were. Yes. They were. Was this after the divorce?

No, we were still married.

Still legally married? Okay, at that point. Yeah.

Can you afford to keep this place?

I make 4,400 a month, and the house payment is 2,360. Yeah, dude.

You can't breathe, brother.

What do you do for a living, Brian?

I'm an electrician apprentice, and hopefully next month I'll be able to take my juryman's exam, so I would get a significant pay bump.

Yeah, what would that look like? In an ideal world, how much would you be making?

Probably around 38 to 40 an hour.

Okay, but per month, if you're at 4,400 right now, what would you expect it to climb to? Like, 6,000? I would hope.

Yeah, that's the hope.

Okay. What's the reality of that actually happening?

I'd say there's probably, I don't know, 60 % chance that I'd be able to make that happen.

And that's going to happen in the next month or two? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah.

Okay. I would wait then, because in that case, I mean, if you're making, yeah, I mean, if you're making six grand a month, then that's about a quarter of your take home pay. That is the parameters. But you got to get it. Yeah, I mean, that has to be the case, Brian. I think you have to emotionally be able to detach yourself, that if it doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen that you can't afford it. You can't afford this house on $4,400 a month.

Yeah. I mean, brother, it's pretty tight on six.

Yeah. It's real tight. I mean, it's tight right now, especially.

Why do you want to keep this house? Let's pretend you weren't married, making what you make now and even what you might potentially make. Would you walk in and buy this house?

No, but the main thing for keeping it at the moment is that there's not any equity in it. It's probably in the having to pay to even sell the house.

Yeah, but even if you have to pay 3% or whatever, I just see most couples that go through a divorce, one person wants the divorce just to happen, and then the rest of their life just keep going as it was. It feels like you're bleeding money everywhere. You got this debt here, you got lawyer fees over there, you're going to get court docket fee, you're going to get just feed to death. It's like playing Whac-a-mole with all these different bills. The only folks I see be successful in this transition, dude, are folks who understand everything about my life that was is now over. Right. And really, metaphorically, taking your arm and just swiping it across the table and saying, Okay, would I buy this house right now? No. Okay, then I'm going to spend five grand getting out of it.

Yeah. Is the main motivation, Brian, to stay in because you feel like you're going to lose money or there are kids involved and you're wanting to stay in for them? Or what's the main motivation?

Just the main is just because of the money I expect.

I mean, I don't really- I'd call a realtor and get an actual real number in your head.

What's making you think that... Well, because you guys just bought it a year, six months ago. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. Basically, I feel like an updated monthly It's poured on it, and it's basically worth what you bought it for.

You'll have to pay capital gains because it's been under two years as well.

Yeah, there'll be no gain.

Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's fair.

I would get a realtor, dude. I'd get a realtor and get real numbers.

And run some comps, too, Brian, because that's right. I think there's probably a lot of emotion wrapped up in this.

I have written a check. I wrote a check one time for $4,600 to get out of a house. It's That's one of the best money I've ever spent. It's just released. It's the best money I've ever spent. They say, Nobody brings a check to closing. You get one, right? I did. I brought one. Within two months, I had basically paid myself back, if you will, and that started my entire That process again. Yeah, getting out of debt and just stop being chained every day. Yeah.

I think to underestimating the weight of feeling like I have to keep up a mortgage payment, it's your home. Do you know what I mean? There's an extra weight there that you're carrying because of it. It's not like a car loan that you can sell and figure out. When it's your home, there's this desperation that sets in and not always making wise decisions. And I realize my math was bad.

Yeah, it's 37%.

When it was 30, it wasn't 45. It's still pretty high. It was like 38, 39%. I'd sell it Yeah.

Unless they come back and say you're going to lose 60 or 70,000 bucks. How much does this house cost when you bought it?

We financed 295.

Okay. Yeah. You'll probably spend up to 10 or 15 grand to write a check to get out. Yeah. And that That would be painful on top of everything else. How are you doing with the divorce? It's a mess.

It is what it is, I guess.

No, it's not. It's not. It's not a real statement. That's what dudes from Montana say when they're trying to stop from just- It's like cowboy's day. From weeping. Yeah. How are you?

I'm not that great. The past few months has been pretty bad.

You have little ones involved?

We have a 19-month-old baby.

Oh, man.

We're just trying to navigate co-parenting at this point. But yeah, I don't know. She just decided after three years that she was done and called it quid.

I'm sorry, man.

I'm sorry. Me, too. It came out of nowhere. I really did not see it coming. Her parents and my parents and really nobody thought it coming. I think she's gone through her own issues.

Yeah. Yeah, but there's also something about not being able to hold your baby every night of the week that it's hard to breathe, right? I get that. It is. Yeah. I'm sorry, man.

Is it final, Brian, the divorce?

No, it will be final next month.

Okay, so terms and everything with the house, all of that is completed?

No. Technically, we filed the court documents and all that stuff. We just have to go to a final hearing. She was signing the house over to me.

Well, maybe you pause that. I know. That's what I'm wondering. And say, I'm going to sell it, and you all going to split the cost of you getting out of the mortgage. You and or your attorney can make a case for, I can't afford this on my current salary, so I'm going to have to sell it. Since she's the one who left, then I'm going to ask her to bear the entire or at least half of the burden of selling this house and getting out of it.

Yeah, keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee-jerk reaction for you, but now that stuff is settling and it's not finalized, it's an option for sure. Because, yeah, calling the show, running the numbers, you can't afford it unless Unless your income bumps up to 8-9 grand a month. But besides that, it's not worth it. I would figure out a way out.

Rachel, everybody who gets divorced, it just feels so common. Everybody I talk to underestimates how disruptive and how destructive it is. It just blows up everything.

It's so difficult. Brian, thanks for the call. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession, business taxes will go up or down. Ai will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should, too. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Netsuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And Speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite. Com/ramsey. It's free at netsuite. Com/ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, and we are so excited.

We said here in the first segment that we have a lobby full of attendees for our Money and Marriage Getaway this weekend, and we're so excited to announce the fall weekend event of Money and Marriage. Running it back. Coming back in 2025. So these are three incredible days to hang out with your spouse here in Nashville. And you'll join myself and John for a long weekend. And we're going to dive into some great content around money and around marriage, relationships, all of it. And we do live Q&A's. We interact a lot. I just feel like there's this energy about this event that is so fun. It is such a fun weekend. And we're pumped to do it this weekend and pumped that it is coming again this fall. So if you go to ramsey solutions. Com/events, we are so excited. Oh, it's November sixth through eighth. I was trying to find the dates. So November sixth through eighth, it is here in Nashville. Early bird pricing is happening right now. Tickets start at $749, so get yours before prices go up because they will continue to go up. We even have some limited VIP tickets with a meet and greets and some other fun stuff.

Those are available as well.

By the way, we intentionally keep this at about half the price of what weekend retreats are. We intentionally... We could shove another 1,500 people in this auditorium. We intentionally undersell it. We, as a team, We choose to make less money so we can get people in here that when they leave, it's not just three days of talking to somebody. It's three days of... You and I are both married. We're trying to figure this thing out, too. It's everybody in a room figuring this thing out together. It's my favorite thing that I'm a part It's awesome.

Yeah, it's so, so fun. Again, excited to announce some new dates, November sixth through the eighth of 2025.

They dropped this right smack in the middle of deer season for a whole weekend, which is super not cool.

Oh, so sorry. We did not consult John's hunting schedule.

How dedicated I am to this thing.

Wow. What a selfless servant you are. Like a public servant just being here with all of us in November. Thank you, John.

Listen, my family We will starve. Thank you. But marriages will be saved. That's right.

That's all we want. That's all we want. Oh, man. So, so fun. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you both?

We are That went great. How can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. I'll cut to the chase. I'm a licensed realtor. I'm working towards my broker's license. While I'm in class now, but I have chosen this past year stay at home with our son, and I'm feeling some regret about staying home, and I'm struggling with how to be content in that decision. How can I make peace with this choice and still pursue my career goals without feeling like I'm not contributing enough financially?

Okay, so that's what I was going to ask. What's the discontentment over? Is it that you're bored at home? Is it that you miss your career, that you feel guilt, that you're not bringing in money? Where is this coming from?

I think it's a mix. I've always had... I've been in the mental health field since I graduated college and always had that job as director role and had a consistent paycheck. My real estate came into my life about nine years ago, and that was always bonus. That was always on the side. When I eventually have a family, I can focus on that. We thought that as a side hustle. My husband's in mortgages. It's been roller coaster the last couple of years. But with the hustles, side hustles and so forth, we've saved some money. My son's only two. We both agreed I can continue to focus on real estate and stay at home. I guess that's been a challenge for me. I'm always on the go, going to work. I'm having a hard time with that. Although it's a wonderful thing, I'm still technically working, but I guess that's just not clicking for me, if that makes sense.

No, absolutely. I think it's hard when you go from one speed to the other. It does feel like whiplash and this need to feel like what felt normal is no longer normal, and it's not comfortable because of that. I do wonder, Elizabeth, because you're a high producer. I can hear it in your personality. You like productivity. You like to do things. And so I'm wondering for you, number one, is there a level of a hybrid? I think it's okay to always decide, Okay, this isn't what I was thinking it was going to be, and make a different decision. No one's holding you captive to stay home full-time unless you and your husband agree that's the value of ours and you want to keep that value longer. But I'm like, In my head, you can always shuffle around and say, Okay, I've been trying this. It's not working. Maybe I go part-time. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. Stay home completely or work 80 hours a week or something. That hybrid. Or even the routine around the home, how can you make it mirror your productivity so you at least feel like, Yeah, I'm still staying at home because that's what I wanted to do, but it's still matching your personality.

Does that make sense?

It makes a little sense. And believe me, there's never a moment where I'm sitting.

And I wonder if that's an issue, though. Is that an issue, though? Yeah, my That's where John will come in.

My friend, Ian Simpkins, says, If busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress. I'm talking to two moms, so I cannot stand when dudes are like, All right, ladies, here's what you're feeling. Here's what you should do. I'm not doing that at all, but I want to pose these questions. You have entered into what I think from the outside looks like the great guilt factory that is modern motherhood. There was a whole bunch of people that told you, If you drink like a man, earn like a man, if you buy into that nonsense, by the way, men kill themselves more, they die younger. If you buy into that track that will feel a certain way. Then there's this other side of it that is, how dare you do that? You've got this kid at home, moms who outsource childcare or some lizard person, they're less than. You thought, Okay, I'm going to quit all of this, and it's going to feel a certain way. In both situations, you went with you. If you've been running for something for a long time or you run and move as a way to try to outrun ghosts that I've been hounding you since you're a little kid, if you're constantly on the move, sitting at home and facing the fact, can we just all say this, parents?

Parenting can be super boring. It can be catastrophically boring. There's only so much cha-cha in getting thrown up on and washing bottom. It's mundane.

It's just over and over. It's a complete selflessness versus coming to work and interacting with other adults. You know what I mean? It is a complete giving of yourself. Yes.

So I think, yeah, what Rachel said, I think is so important is none of these decisions are forever. If you and your husband hold them lightly and say, Okay, we're going to try this for six months, and then you be honest about, I'm going bananas. I need to go talk to a therapist. I need a group of friends. By the way, I think every stay at home mom needs to have a gang, this idea that women go home and you're stuck in a house with a crying baby. It's never happened in human history. We tell moms, you all have a problem. That's insane, right? You got to get a gang, all that stuff. Is any of this ring true?

Oh, 100%. I think what has recently stopped, and this is tell me you need to stop, but I always contribute to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that. That's on pause. My husband does it. He has his 401k. It's like certain things have stopped, but we have financially put that security in so we can hold off on that for a little bit. Hey, Elizabeth.

He still contributes. Contributing to a human being is infinitely more valuable than a 401(k).

You're okay. You're okay.

Yeah.

Yes. That doesn't mean getting barfed on isn't any less fun.

So much of our worth is- Financial. It's a number. It is poured into that, and it is this value of, Here's what I bring in from a dollar and since perspective. Even that, even you mentioning the 401k, Elizabeth, that is ingrained in you.

What are you worth? And we answer that with a number. That's insane.

Unwinding that, I think, is going to be a really important part of this journey for you, because for so often, again, I'm going to say women because I'll speak for myself, that are proactive, you're productive, you do things. There is a value. It can be like a drug. You get something out of it. There's a cause and effect, and I get to see it.

I've got to prove that I have Yeah, and it feels good.

Then when all that stops and there's silence there, that's the monster you have to face.

There's no silence. There's just, Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack?

It doesn't end. I know. Yeah. Give yourself some grace, Elizabeth, for sure. But yeah, it's one of the hardest limbos for a mom, and I feel that every day between the kids and the job. I get it. One of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely It's devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them.

Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can, too. Visit zander. Com. For instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. As we've mentioned, every segment where we're going to, because they're fantastic, we have an incredible crowd here today at Ramsey Solutions. As you can watch the show live from the lobby on the glass, right next to the lobby right in front of us as well is the debt-free stage, and people that stand on the stage do a debt-free scream. And today, we have Tommy and Rebecca on the stage. Welcome, you guys. Hey, how are you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here.

All right. Where are you all in from?

California. Corona, California.

Well, you can't get out of debt if you're from California. That's true.

In Corona, California. You can. That's pretty fun. Okay, you guys. So you're from California. Came in. Are you guys here for the weekend? Yes.

We're doing the money and marriage event.

Amazing. Great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off?

We paid off 644,000.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so what does that include?

We're weird people.

Pay off your house. Pay off the house? Yeah, you. Yes, you did. Okay, how much of the 640 was the house, or was that it? It was the whole morning. So paid off the house completely. Oh, my gosh. Okay, how long did that take? Three years. Three years. And what money How many were you making during that time? Joint, 350,000. Okay. Oh, my gosh, you guys.

Okay, but that still doesn't cover… I mean, you all- We had savings.

You did. Part of the process was letting go of the savings. I was more of the hoarder because I came from really humble beginnings. I felt like having a large safety net made me feel warm and fuzzy in that security blanket. When Tommy got me into the Financial Peace University, it was like We had to explain, Babe, this is crazy what we're paying in interest on the mortgage. Yeah, for sure. You were the math nerd. Running all the numbers.

Yeah, I was big into Ramsey, watching it all the time, but we purchased the house right as we got married three years ago. We were a blended family. We have three daughters between us.

I was looking at the amortization schedule, and I just couldn't believe the amount of money that we were going to end up paying We bought it on a 30-year, so we were not really on the plan. Once I was realizing that, I started talking to her more and more about it.

We need to pay it off.

At first, I'd probably turned Dave's name into a cussword in the house home. How long have you guys been married? Three years. Three years. When did all this conversation about selling the house start? Before marriage? I'm sorry, I think you paint it off. I think shortly after we bought the house, I was looking and I started getting I had to get stressed out about how much money we were going to spend. I started trying to work my way into it and talking to her about it. He came in hot and I was like, What? I was like, You are crazy. What are you talking about? Everyone has a mortgage. This is no big deal. But as we went through Financial Peace University, I was like, Oh, this makes sense. Okay, all right. I think we could do this. But it was more of getting me on board because it was crazy. I haven't known anyone to pay off their house, To me, it was crazy.

Okay, I want to hear from you. I want to hear about your... You have a tension that I think so many Americans have that we don't talk about it. This both survivalist, you grew up without a whole lot, me too. You know this can all go away. At the same time, you get that job and you're successful, and you get to have all the stuff that you were never able to have. You live in this constant tension of it's all going to go away. Maybe you have a deep freezer full of, I don't know, hot dogs or whatever. But then also, you're just buying stuff all the time. Tell me about that tension that you lived with.

Well, for me, it's a different lifestyle. We do really well, and we're very blessed. But at the same time, we still have those same traditional feelings. We both wear socks with holes in them because we're both the savers. It's crazy to have so much money and income and be able to pay off the house when we're still the saver type. It's almost like your emotions haven't caught up to the math. No. To sit in the reality of what it's really reality. We just paid off the house last month because we knew he booked this money in marriage, and we were like, We got to pay it off and do this death and we scream. It hasn't even sunk in yet. This is still so fresh for us that it's like, This is crazy.

Have you had the checks deposit and you don't have a mortgage Did you send them to yet? Yeah. We had one.

We got to skip one house payment by the time of coming here. It was like, what?

It's the next one that you all be weird. In the next month, you'll look at each other and be like, I think we're rich. It's so crazy.

Yeah. Okay, so tell me what... Because I love that it's been three years. This has been a short journey for you guys, for the most part. When you went from, Okay, is this a good idea? I don't know. It's not that big of a deal. No one pays off their house. That normal mindset, which is It's really normal. Tell me about the emotions between just that, like, Okay, I don't know, to actually having it paid off. Yeah, I think for me, I was always like, Oh, no, we need the mortgage to have the tax write-off, right? And he's like, What are you talking about? Then to get to this side, it's like, Oh, we don't have the mortgage anymore. The way I would describe it is just mind blown, and especially because I don't know anyone else who's paid off the house. For us, it's totally we're the weirdos, like he said.

I found out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid their house off, and it's like the guy at the bar who just says, Excuse me, because he knows he can beat up everybody, and he didn't have to bark and prove it. You'll find out there's a whole bunch of people who have paid it off. They just don't feel like they have to talk about it because they have peace in their life. They have nothing to prove to anybody anymore, right? And then they can go buy socks. They don't have holes in them, too. It's fantastic. What's the thing you all are going to work towards to buy now?

No big purchases. We want to retire early. We're just both savers. Why not fuel off of that and build towards early retirement?

Will you make a commitment to me and Rachel?

Yes.

Before you leave Nashville? Yes. You all here for the money marriage weekend. Before you leave. I like to think of Nashville as the Sock and Underwear Capital of America. We all go get some socks.

We'll buy socks.

I do want to get some cowboy boots, actually. Yes.

Go get a nice pair of boots. That's what you guys need.

Saturday evening after the event, you all go downtown You can get 19 pair of boots for four bucks or whatever, get some hats, and that'd be fantastic.

Were the girls, were they part of this? How much did you involve the kids? They were involved in the sense of saving. Hey, we need to cut back on eating out. That really builds up over time. They're like, But why? But we did keep this private for ourselves. We wanted to do the journey, and when they're old enough, we'll explain it to them and the importance of it, but we didn't really get them too to keep involved on it. Yes. No, that's great. I know. It's so interesting each family, because then those girls, as they grow up, their normal baseline is like, Oh, yeah. It's peace. You just have a paid-for house. That's what you do. The normal you're setting as part of changing that family tree. It's not just the financial legacy, but it's this mindset of how you view and see money.

Let me make one more quick observation. Both of you all, this is marriage number two? Yes. The fact that you guys came together and did not just throw your feet up couch and say, We're just going to give us another whirl. But whatever happened in your past, you all entered into this new marriage, blending a family, which is hard. A picture of your girls came up, just stunning young girl. I mean, brother, you're in for a mess, my man. Yeah, no, I'm not going to show us. But here's the deal. You all put some hurdles in your way immediately, and you all overcame them. I want you all to remember back to this point when you all get sideways with each other, which you will, every marriage does. You all can do anything, right? You all went and did it right out of the gate. It's amazing.

So proud. Great. All right, you Guys, we got Tommy and Rebecca from Southern California. They paid off $640,000, which is their house in three years, making $350,000. All right, you guys. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Count it down. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Amazing.

It's time to go stock shop in America.

That's how it's done. God, we don't get a lot of houses. We've gotten some recently. We get some, yeah. But that's the pinnacle.

But they're bucking every trend. California can't pay it off. It's impossible. It's this. It takes two people saying, let's just go get this thing done.

It's awesome. Three years. So beautiful. Three years. Incredible. Incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Up next, we have Emily from Minneapolis on the show. Hey, Emily. Welcome.

Hi. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. I am just looking for advice I'm in a funny situation. Me and my dad were living with my grandmother, and she recently passed away. I'm sorry. Thank you. The situation, I guess we were looking to buy the house, and I didn't really want to buy it unless it was given to me, and that was in conversation, but we didn't quite get to it. My dad has always been supported by her, and he Since she's passed, is still not really going to work. The reasons why he never really went is because he's an alcoholic. My boyfriend, he wanted to buy the house, and I'm a big fan. I know you're not supposed to do that. So we did start the process of the mortgage lending. Now my boyfriend doesn't make enough, and then my dad's credit is too bad. It really would only work if all three of us were in on it. But now that my dad still isn't proving to me that he go to work. I guess I'm just looking for financial advice, what to do here.

Please, please, please, please don't do what you're about to do. Yeah. Please don't do that. You know in your guts that this is not a good idea. Please don't. I know it will be hard, it'll be uncomfortable, and your dad will get mad, and you're going to feel guilty, all those things. Please don't do this.

Yeah, because I'm still in debt. My boyfriend is still in debt.

Do we just buy a different house? Think of it this way. The bank's job is to lend money. They looked at your boyfriend and looked at your dad and they said, Y'all's situation is so uncertain and unsafe that we will not do business with you.

Please don't.

Not to nick, you know the mess and the legal mess of buying a house with a boyfriend and how to untangle all that mess. I know you're going to be together forever because we're in love. I know, but we wouldn't have a show if that didn't work out all the time. Then you throw a dad with some significant It is just a recipe for you being just destroyed financially, your romantic relationship ending up in ash, and then you and your father having no... I mean, you've tangled business with substance abuse with lifetime of you two having challenges with grief. I mean, it's just such a wreck. Walk away. Go get an apartment. Please, please, please.

How old are you, Emily?

I'm 24.

Okay. No, please don't.

Yeah, There are so many things in this. In a weird way, too, Emily, I feel like sometimes you can call it God, you can call it life, whatever you want. There's just closed doors that happen, and it's like there's closed doors continuing to happen. You didn't have the conversation with your grandma. The bank isn't allowing your dad to fully have it, and then also then the boyfriend, and then you're going to have to come into play. I mean, there are all of these things that are stopping you. And I think, is Is it the sentimental idea of owning this house from your grandmother, or is it just, I want to own a house? Give me some of the thought behind it for you.

Right. So this year, we just got on the… My boyfriend and I were like, Hey, we're going to pay off our debt. We were going to get engaged and buy a house this year. But then when this happened, I guess now it just feels like I know my dad has that credit, and when he gets this money from once the house is sold, there's three other brothers, so he'll probably get $50,000. I know if he gets that, he's just going to drain it. He can't go buy a house. I guess part of it felt like an obligation to what's going to happen to him. I know that's not my responsibility, and I thought it would be easier to move on until it really came to, I don't know what he is going to do.

This is a really hard thing for me to say.

Yeah.

But you can't save your in the situation.

Yeah, it's not my responsibility. I understand.

I know the cool thing these days is just to write off your parents. I don't believe in that, and I believe hanging in there as long as you can outside of really abusive situations. The thought of taking care of my parents, that consumes a lot of my thinking. That's not a bad thing. This isn't you helping him with bad financial decisions, and this isn't you helping an elderly parent. This is you thinking that maybe now he's going to look at you and say, I'm proud of you.

He's not going to. Yeah.

No, you're right. You've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl wondering, why is he picking the bottle over me? It has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the It's not that he's got demons, man. And alcohol for him works right now. He's going to have to walk through that.

Yeah, I understand.

I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man.

Emily I would give you a little bit of word of caution with your boyfriend and even just the mixes of finances, because as you were saying, we were trying to pay off our debt and all this. Keep everything separate. If you're working to pay off debt, that's incredible, but be paying off your debt. How much debt do you have? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, me doing mine, him doing his. Perfect.

Okay, good. That's great.

The number of people who call the show and one, she's paid off all his debt, and then he finds some new hot young thing at the water park or whatever weird. You know what I mean? You pay off yours. You all can be each other's cheerleaders. You all can high five each other, but don't pay off his debt yet.

Okay. You guys recommend apartment, save to buy the house, then get engaged.

No.

Get Get engaged whenever. Yeah, get engaged today. Yeah. I mean, if you guys are doing it, just do it now. Get engaged, get married. I would be completely debt-free and have a fully funded emergency fund of 3-6 months of expenses, and then save at least a 5% for a down payment.

Okay, 5% for a down payment. Okay.

That's probably going to be… What do you make? What was that? How much money do you make?

I think it's like 35 after taxes.

How much do you owe in debt?

I have one auto loan, and it was for my grandma, actually, to get her boat around. She bought a boat her last summer because she said life is too short, and she spent her funeral money. It's a truck. It's a $14,000 truck.

Can you sell it?

I'm thinking about it, yeah.

I would sell it this weekend.

Yeah. Have you looked into… If you sold a private seller, what it would come to?

I haven't yet. I think this all just hit me today of like, Well, I'm not going to be able to do this.

Yeah, for sure, Emily. No. I'm so glad you called. I would just go on Kelly Blue Book, type in the information. It'll ask you some questions, and just don't do a dealer, do a private sale, you'll get more that way. That would be huge.

You're free. Then go buy a $5,000 Camry that will run forever, and then you're off to the races. I want you to see this. You have a real-life picture. Most don't have this. You have a real-life picture of what it looks like to not take care of your finances, to burn yourself to the ground, trying to prop somebody else up who's not interested in your help, and then asking your granddaughter to buy a car so that you, in your last few months and years, can Yolo. You have a picture of that. I want you to try to consider what it would feel like to not owe anybody any money, to have your own house, to have a job where you're making more than 35,000 bucks.

Savings in the bank.

You got savings in the bank. You get what I'm saying? Peace. Peace, peace, peace, peace. Let's all for peace.

Emily, stay on the line. Christian is going to pick up, and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine-lesson course, and you can just binge those videos just to get the basics.

Make boyfriend watch it.

Yeah, you guys sit down together and watch it. Seriously. That was already the plan. Good. We'll give you every dollar premium so that you can start really working this feeling of what John's saying, paying this picture of, what does this look like to actually have a plan for my money, not only month to month, but in the next three, four, five, six years. It's an amazing thing. It is so possible in your 24 years old, and you are going to be able make so many changes, so many changes in this. Thank you. But there's some- I appreciate it. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, no, we're so excited for you. There's some relational hurdles there, too, in your life. Yeah. Hey, can we make no mistake?

This is going to be awful. Yeah. To say no to the house. Your dad is going to make you feel so guilty, and he's going to blame you, and you can block him, and you cannot respond. But this is going to be hard. But just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the next right thing. Yeah.

Emily, thanks for the call. Stay away from water parks, right?

I'm telling you, those boys go to water parks and they find new...

Oh, my gosh. All right. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks, John, for a great hour. And thank you, America. We'll be back. Hey, guys, I'm Jade Warshaw, and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate free up more money in your budget, and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at laurelroad. Com/ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator, and other tools. Plus, you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5 %, and you can get your interest rate even lower if you sign up for auto pay. But if your situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan.

So make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move. Learn more at laurelroad. Com/ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad. Com/ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. Talk about your life, your money, anything and everything. Next up. First up.

You're waiting on me. Dude, I'm so happy right now. This is my favorite weekend of the year. I love it. Favorite weekend of the year. It's money and marriage weekend, and people come from all over planet Earth to hang out with us in Nashville, Tennessee. If you think we get wheels off on our individual shows, this particular event is so unhinged. It's the best. It's the best of the best.

It's a lot of Rachel just shaking her head on stage with John.

You are the queen of accidental double entendras.

Okay.

It's like your superpower.

It happens sometimes. All right, let's start us off this hour with- Actually, Ken Coleman is the king. Always. The king. Number one. Yes. Number one in the book, for sure. All right, let's go to Courtney in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Courtney, welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going? I hope you guys are doing good. I just have a question about debt consolidation. I have a vehicle loan that's like over 23,000, and I'm wanting to sell it to an auto dealership, but the options are either lease or get a rebate and lease a car, which I don't want to do, or pay the part where I'm underwater. I was thinking if I go ahead, sell it and get a loan out for maybe 9,000, I can pay off my credit card and have my car also paid off and have that debt gone because my ultimate goal is to be able to get a and just get rid of some of that debt.

Okay. So the car, you owe 23 on it. And have you looked at other options, like private sale, and what you could get? Because usually, you can't get as great of a deal through a dealership.

Yeah, I haven't looked at private sale. I mean, there's a dealership right now. My car, they're offering around 20,000. Okay. That's pretty good. I'm concerned about how long it'll take to do a private cell while I'm putting more mileage on the car.

Sure. If they're offering you 20, then I bet you can get 27,5 for it. 27,5 for it? I just made that number up, but I guarantee you they are low-balling you like, Swing low, Sweet Chariots. They send these emails out that they have, and they're fishing for desperate people.

Yeah.

If you wait two weeks, you can get this thing sold Okay.

Okay. So should I just stay away from the debt consolidation?

Yeah, I would, because it's not going to really fix your problem, because how much do you have in credit card debt? You're wanting to use some of this other loan that you're going to take out, right, to pay off the credit card debt? Yeah. And how much is that? How much is the credit card debt?

So the credit card is about 4,000.

4,000? Okay. And how much do you make a year?

Around 70,000.

Around 70. Okay, great. Okay. Honestly, Courtney, if I were you, I think John's right. I think you could probably break even on this car, if not, maybe make a thousand or so. I would Kelly Blue book it and really look into private sales. Okay. Just to to sell to an individual. I think you're going to get more doing that. Again, the dealerships always lowball you because they have to turn around and resell it, and so they have to make their margin on it. Instead of all of that, you get the profit instead of them.

But they're also going to turn around and resell it, but you unveiled their plan. They're going to make a little bit of money on that resale where they're going to make most of their money is taking somebody who bought a car and trying to trade them into a lease.

Yes, that's it, too, Courtney. They're trying to make a lot.

You've heard it that when you drive a new car off the lot, it instantly loses money. You know that one, right?

Yeah, it definitely did. It went down like 10.

That's right. All a leases, it's an awesome scam that car companies came up with to get regular consumers just to pay for that depreciation. They get their car back in two years. Somebody has paid the depreciation, and now they can turn and sell it for what it's worth, and they win. Don't play that game. They are looking for desperate people.

Yeah. Courtney, do you have any money saved at all?

I don't. I just made a big move, honestly, and I had life happen, and then that's what happened. Sure. I had to buy a new car.

Yeah, because I can use. Yeah. I don't think you're in a- Not at all. You're not in a desperate situation. If I were you, Courtney, I would make it a goal, get an extra job, get a side hustle, and I would make it a goal to save 5,000 to $6,000. I in the next four months. Make a big goal. Try to make 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 a month extra. When you do that, you'll have that margin. Go and buy a $5,000 Honda Civic, sell this car for Maybe you'll break even on it. I mean, the worst, it's going to be $23. If they're offering you $20, $23, maybe you'll get another extra $1,000 or $2.

I don't even mind if you have to go to a local credit union and take out a loan for $2,500 to get out of it because then you only owe $2,500 versus $2,000. Is your credit pretty shot?

Well, no. My credit, I think the car is so new on my… I've only had it for a couple of months, but- Yeah, you're not underwater on it.

So breaking even- Is a win. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Then, Courtney, you'll be able to work and pay off the credit card, the 4,000 in three or four months. I mean, your whole life could look different, honestly, in the next eight to nine months. I don't think the debt consolidation loan, that's just moving around the interest. You're not going to be in this long anyway. For the long game, from the math perspective, it's not going to make that much of a difference. Majority of the time with debt consolidation, not as much in this example, but for a lot of people, they try to shuffle on their debt to fix a math problem, we're realizing that so much of this is a behavior problem, not a math problem. So you, Courtney, going and doing it and understanding like, Oh, yeah, I can totally pay this off. I think you'll do it faster in that way than trying to shuffle the debt around.

Can I ask you a personal question just between me and you and a couple of million people listening?

Sure.

Why did you move?

For a job, I got an actual It was almost a $16,000 increase. Everything was great. I had my money saved from my house, everything was gone. Then something popped up on my appareil that I didn't know about. I was in an apartment. Then I just couldn't get the house at that time as well. Started shoving that money left and right next to me, I know my savings was a dream. There you go.

Sometimes when you have a big transition or two or three, or you mentioned, it's just things got chaotic real fast. All of a sudden, look up and the smoke clears, you're like, What happened? I'm all super stable, and then this thing happens. The temptation is, I want to fix it all right this second. It's like somebody who has a really just gets off the rails with their diet on a weekend, and they think they're going to solve it by just starving themselves Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. What they end up doing is creating such a teeter totter inside their body that they end up over eating Thursday, right? The hardest thing for you is just you make great money. You're clearly awesome at what you do, and you've had a little bit of chaos in your life. You've transitioned, you've moved, all this stuff. Just do the next right move. Get rid of the car, don't get in bed with any... I said that tired. Don't take out any loans. Don't get in with any consolidation. You'll pay this $4,000 off in no time. You'll have your savings back in no time, and then you'll be back on your feet, like Rachel said.

In nine months, this whole thing is behind you. So just do the next right move.

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All right. Before I read today's question out loud, I need everybody to relax. James, this may be the end of the show because you're going to get a canceled question because I have strong opinions on Today's question comes from Renee in Iowa. Oh, jeez. Here we go. My husband and I are on Baby Step 2 with about $50,000 left to pay off. We earn around $250,000 a year. Our question is regarding how much we spend for our 13-year-old daughter's travel softball team. Between club dues, private lessons, weekend travel, food, hotels, and I could go on and on, it's about $1,000 a month. Rachel, a thousand. We're doing well paying off our debt, and I don't want to squash her passion for sports. Then take her out of travel sports. Because she's one of the top players in the state. She still will be. She's a hard-working kid and doesn't take our support for granted. But I feel like I'm breaking the rules for paying off debt in Baby Step 2. What are your thoughts on this? This is the killer question, the knife in the heart question. Our debt is not her fault, so I feel like it's unfair to take this from her just to save some money.

I'm going to have probably a less harsher take than you will. Go for it. Okay, you make $250,000 a year, you have $50,000 in debt. Cut everything for six months and pay off the debt, in my head, and then you're fine. Then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, my problem with this has nothing to do with math.

I know. But it's the debt. Yes.

You make a quarter million dollars, pay off your debts.

Yeah. In my head, I'm like, The $1,000 softball thing, yes. Is it slowing down your debt snowball? Sure. But I think there's way other problems out there for making $250,000 and not being able to pay off 50.

In my head, I'm like- Yeah, you're taking home $18,000 to $20,000 a month, making a quarter million dollars, and you take five or $7,000 of that a month, pay off 50 grand in 6 to 10 months.

It's over. Right. It'd be, Yeah, get an extra job or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, to do it. I don't like the, Oh, my gosh, this is the thing. I'm like, I think there's other issues going on besides the softball thing.

Yes, I would be shocked, and, Renee, I can be wrong. I'd be shocked if there's not a whole bunch of other expenses that we have to do. Yeah, it's that feeling. Or I'm going to use her words, We're going to squash our kid's passion. It's not her fault, so it's unfair, all this stuff. Here's what I spent my career. I did travel sports in their first iteration. I was a college athlete for a couple of years. My whole life has been around athletics, and I love it. I've got to sit. Some of my buddies are collegiate trainers. That's what they do for a living. I also work with some of the top physical fitness folks in the world. I love this. I love sports. I love all of it. We are destroying our kids at the altar of every weekend, private lessons, club dues, performance. We say things like, She's one of the best players in the state. Great. That doesn't mean you spend a thousand bucks a month. If you go ask people who work with professional athletes, and even the top collegiate athletes, they're going to tell you, let your kids have time off.

Make them play other sports. Go do other fun things. Go camping. Have weekends. Have a childhood.

I was going to say a whole-rounded head. That's right. The problem with this is it's so segmented, so early in life, too.

That's right. I've got collegiate trainers and collegiate medical staff, friends of mine, that said they see repetitive joint use injuries in 18-year-olds that have always been reserved for geriatric patients. Shoulders, knees. It's madness, right? In this intense specialization and the intense focus. I want every parent... Like you said, it's not about money. It's not about money. If you make 75,000 bucks Let me put it this way. Everything is on the table when you're trying to get out of debt. It's an emergency for your family. I do like kids having some skin in the game. Moms and dads, you're not robbing from your children if you don't shell out $1,000 a month for soccer or for softball or for whatever the thing is. You're not robbing a childhood.

What I hear in this, too, Renee, this was five, six sentences all around this. It's guilt. It's guilt. There's a level of this idol realization in her. I'm like, Renee, chill. You don't even- She's 13. If Renee was like, Yeah, it's fine. But she's like, No, it's this pressurized momentum for the parents going on to the children.

Yes. Here's the ultimate problem. Our kids are being made the center point of the family, of the house. Your 13-year-old knows that her life dictates every weekend, every evening of the week, all of the driving, the money. They know that, and kids cannot hold. They're not strong enough to hold the entire weight of a family. That's the parents' job. Teach your kids to be disappointed. Teach them, Hey, me and your dad got into a whole bunch of debt, and so all of us have to sacrifice. And they're going to learn resilience-For a season, for one year. And frustration. And your 13-year-olds will say things like, I hate you. They're 13. There's a reason we don't let 13-year-olds buy guns or beer or vote because they're 13. If you are playing this, it's unfair, and I don't want to get mad, and I don't want to take their passion. You won't do any of that stuff. You won't do any of that stuff. You will give your kid a stable, as Dr. Becky Kennedy says, a sturdy presence to anchor into. That's way more important than showing up private lessons and traveling hotels and all this madness.

It is stone madness. If you talk to any professional coach, they'll tell you, Jeez, Louise, man, do something else. Go play soccer, go play basketball. Go take a karate class, go play guitar, do other things that make you a well-rounded human being. Yes.

Well, and I even think the well-roundedness, I was even hearing some dads talk, and they were like, Their goal is to go do something outdoors once a month with the kids, with the boys because they were like, If you look up, it's a sport, sport, sport, sport, sport. I don't know why. I don't know if it's this area or if it's all of America.

It's turned into all of America. But it is A. Here's the thing. I have great sympathy for parents, Rachel, because they're told it for, Hey, your kid's pretty fast. Or how good does it feel when someone's like, Hey, your kid made this team? And you're like, Yeah. All right, it's going to cost $900 because I see something in your kid. If they get on this team, then next year, they get on this team. By fifth grade, they can get on that team. And then eighth grade, they can get on this. You just got put into a rocket ship that is so expensive.

I was going to say, Anne, I would love to do an investigative reporting on how much these league make.

And the league owners make.

It is a money-making machine. It's a printing press. Every parent is like, Take my money, take my money, take my money. I mean, seriously, it is wild.

I would love to see a parent who is awesome, who would be willing to go back and say, Okay, here's how much money we spent. I would love to just give it to you or George or Jade and have you all run it through. If you all invested this, just put it in a 529 or put it in a Roth for your kid.

How much of all of this, from your perspective, how much of it is the kid that's like, No, I want it, I want it, I want it, versus the parents that's saying, Do this, do this, do this?

Thirteen-year-olds, nine-year-olds, seven-year-olds, they're going to want Twinkies and skittles and to stay up late and to play names and have other recognition from other adults. Kids are just kids. I heard somebody say recently that I just love, I don't want to hear another person say, The kids these days. They haven't changed. Kids are kids. They're always going to try to push the boundaries. They're always going to say, I want the next shiny thing. That's because they're kids. What's changed is adults who are worshiping their children's feelings, and they don't have their own psychology. They weren't trying to relive their childhood. Everybody's Uncle Rico, If I had just gotten my shot. But I think the bigger thing is And more honest take is parents are so worried about how their kids feel on a minute-by-minute basis that they end up with 19-year-olds that can't pick up their arms and that have no resilience and no psychology for disappointment or Well, and it's funny, too.

I'm like, as a parent with three little ones in this, I mean, literally, they're like, Oh, well, if they don't do this and they're not on travel by fourth or fifth grade, then they're not going to meet the middle school team, then they're not going to meet the high school team, then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. That's it. That's the story. That's what it feels like happens, and you're like, Oh, my gosh. Right. So, yeah, taking Categorically not true, period. There's a time in your life and did the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to homeownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense, now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire.

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Hey, guys. Rachel Cruz here. All right, I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do. Now, actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the EveryDollars budgeting app, getting started is super easy, and so is sticking to it. You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick-fil-A drive-through. It's fast. And the best part? With unlimited budget categories, you can customize it to fit your life. Grocery coffee runs, coffee runs, or planning your next family trip. Whatever you have going on, every dollar helps you see exactly what's happening with your money. You'll know what's coming in, what's going out, and what's left over for some fun. Because let's be real, you need some fun in your budget. Everydollar keeps budgeting simple and stress-free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download EveryDollar today. Welcome back. Again, we have a big weekend here for our Money and Marriage event, and tickets just came on sale for our November event.

We just opened up these dates to the public. So November sixth through eighth, you can come out to Nashville with your spouse and come hang out with us.

The greatest marriage retreat on Earth. I'm a little bit biased, but I think it's the best one that's out there.

We have so much fun this weekend, you guys. It's always great conversations, great hanging out time. We really pack in an incredible weekend. You can get your tickets for the fall event, November sixth through eighth, at ramsey solutions. Com/events. Up next, we have Susie in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Susie. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello. Hello. Glad to be with you. Yes. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So I want to know how can I go on in the ways I can trust my husband after he had moved all our savings without telling me. I discovered it. He keeps on making financial decisions without telling me or asking me.

Where did he take your savings?

Well, he moved it to another account, well, part of it, that has higher interest, and some of it went into some investments. But that's not a concern because we talked about it. But it's just not the only… In the last two years, not the only time that he did things, and I discovered it.

Well, I guess there's two things here. One is You're asking yourself to do something. You're asking yourself to find trust within yourself, and the person you're trying to trust continues to violate the trust. If you want to reestablish trust, then you have to put down on the table, lay it out there, here's what must be true for me to trust you again. We're going to have to practice, and we're going to have to go step by step to reestablish trust, and then the other person has to participate.

Yeah. Relationally, I know what to ask of him. I know first you do this, this, and this, and then we can work together and I'll start trusting you after these steps. Would it make you feel- But financially, I don't know what to ask of him because I thought we had a joint bank account, and it turns out, probably, I don't know what a joint bank account is and what I ask of what I ask of him to be sure that money doesn't disappear all of a sudden, that I have some- Yeah.

You need to have a spreadsheet that has every account on it and what every password for every your account is. You should both be sitting down with an investment professional, Smart Investor Pro, as we call them here, and they're walking both of you through your retirement accounts and how much money you have in those accounts. You should know how much cash you'll have. I mean, all have. All this stuff you should know.

Susie, what does he say his reasoning is for doing this without telling you? When you find out and you say, Oh, my gosh, you moved the money, what does he say?

He couldn't explain it, actually. He started saying, Well, because you, because you. And I'm like, I stopped. My mind shut off. I stopped even listening because what What do you mean because you? You did it. He's saying, Well, he's trying to put the guilt on me somehow. Well, the worst thing is that for 15 years, The money wasn't something that we ever had fights about.

Did you ever talk about it in those 15 years?

We were always on the same page.

You saw everything, you had access to everything, and you knew where everything was for 15 years. Yeah. There was no fights.

He would always say… We would discuss it, or sometimes say, I want to do this, or I did this, and I'm like, Okay, so he always said what's going on. Then he just- Is he in trouble?

Yeah. Is he struggling with gambling, or is he seeing somebody else? Where's this money going?

I want to say that it's not going… I don't think he has problems with gambling. I don't know actually what's going on because this is like the last two years, there's been a series of betrayals.

Okay, so here's the thing. Here's what you need to do. Yeah, go ahead.

There's been other betrayals, Susie, in your marriage? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. On his end or your end?

I know, relationally, what to ask, but then how did I make myself financially safe?

Have you caught him having an affair?

He was in an emotional affair with somebody. Okay.

My guess is if there's missing money or suddenly money is getting moved around all over the place, that if you went and did a forensic deep dive into that, and forensics just means you went and you went line by line to see what is stuff being spent, you're going to find stuff spent on flowers and hotel rooms and things like that. It's just very rare for things to just be bebopping along for In 15 years, everybody's on the same page, and then suddenly all the money gets moved, and you don't know where it is, and some of it's getting spread out, all that stuff. If I'm you, or if you're my sister, you or my mom, I would tell you, pull your credit report today to find out what loans have been taken out with your Social Security number. I would freeze my credit, and then I would tell my husband, We're going to have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount. I want to know what is in all of our retirement accounts. I want to know what's in all of our savings account, what's in our checking account, and in accounting for where all the cash actually is.

It's just going to be a sheet. By the way, it's not hard to do. I've got one, my wife has one. Rachel, it's pretty common that somebody just instantly gets into a mess. I see it more and more with online gambling over the last few years. Yes.

Well, usually when there's shuffling around like this, and then suddenly there was transparency, now there's not transparency, there's a red flag. Something else is going on.

That's the biggest waving on top of a mountain red flag there is.

Yeah. So sorry, Susie. Yeah. I would say, even from a relational standpoint, I don't feel like you guys have probably fully healed from that, obviously, because even the way he's speaking to you or what you told us, he's shifting the blame.

The gas lights are burning brightly.

Yeah. I mean, seriously, It is pretty wild. It is so difficult because if it's not under your name, he could have a secret account that you never know about either. Absolutely. That's right. There is a level of his transparency that he has to come forward as well. But If you can pull things in your name. If you know the banks you guys are banking at together, whatever account is in your name, you will have access to, you will be able to see it. Then asking him to do the same, because I'll be curious, as you do your digging on the side and he brings information. If his doesn't line up with what you even found, then there's another distrust there. But this is, Susie, usually with these types of situations, we always say around here, and it is true. At this point, it's not a money thing. It's a marriage issue. Yeah, big time. Because of the marriage issues, it's coming out as this money issue. You have a road of healing. I mean, you really do. If you guys want to- Well, you got a road of fact finding for the time being. That's fair.

Yes, Yeah.

Because you're not getting the full story.

Yeah. That's really, really difficult and always scary. I'm like, It is the betrayal. That's always so difficult. I'm sorry, Susie. Thanks for the call. I hope that helps, and I hope it does give you some empowerment to go and to look. I think for some, I'll say women who do allow the husbands just to basically do majority of everything when it comes to the money, this is one of the issues that we find because you do feel overwhelmed of like, Oh, my gosh, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what to look for or what to ask because you were saying that, Susie. I don't even know what to ask from a financial situation. Again, just to repeat and help you in this, it is asking checking accounts. It's asking savings accounts, high yield accounts, money market accounts, investments, retirement accounts. I mean, I would- Any outstanding debts? Any debts that are there, yes. And what John said, too, pulling your credit report and seeing if any debts have been taken out. But those are the categories to walk through, to ask him, and then for you to go in this investigative mode.

Yeah. And let me flip it on his head. To try to find it as well. Let me flip it on his head to the men out there. You are not helping your wife have any peace in her life by saying, I've got it. I've got it. Right. At some regular interval, whether it's every month or every quarter, twice a year, once a year, sit down and say, and of course, there's somebody who pushes the button and pays the bills or somebody who moves the money, I get that. Have some, Hey, just so we're on the same page, here's where everything is, and here's where we are. That brings so much peace to your house, and it keeps these these nightmares from happening.

I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is. But nearly half of all Americans have no idea how much money they'll need to retire with dignity. If you're ready to stop hoping for the best and start planning for your future, then check out the SmartVestor program. A SmartVestor pro can teach you everything you need to know to get in the driver's seat of your own financial future. Connect with a pro at ramsey solutions. Com/smartvestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

Learn more at ramsey solutions.

Com/smartvestor. One of the best One of the things that you can do for your money is to get a great tax pro in your corner. Tax season is approaching, and they're going to help advise you to make the best moves for your situation, especially if you've had a big life change or a complicated situation, if you own a small business, So go to ramseysolutions. Com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. All right, up next, we have Ashton in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Ashton. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Okay. Basically, I own a residential painting company here with my long-time childhood friend. We basically are splitting profits right down the middle at around 50 %, despite me running the business full-time, year-round, while he's in school, and he only works for about three and a half months out of the year.

How'd you all come to that arrangement, man? You're getting hosed on that deal.

Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, we just made it 50/50. And then we assumed that it was going to be the same set up as when we worked at a different painting company together. But now, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work. I paint and run one of the crews year round. I'm expanding the network daily, and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business.

What's he saying, Ashton? Have you brought this up to him, feeling like it's unfair? How has he responded?

We've had multiple conversations about it. The main argument that he uses is that I currently make or he and I, I guess, both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? That's his argument, and he just doesn't back down on it.

Did you guys put in investment upfront? Equal investment, and that's how you got to the 50/50 partnership? Or did you guys, you guys were just two friends, were like, Yeah, we'll just open up this together and see what happens?

I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to stay alive. I'll be fine.

But my contribution to the business- We passed need a long time ago. So it's not that. I mean, yeah.

No, no, no. Hey, just, bro, this guy is not your friend.

Yeah, he's my business partner.

I understand that there's got to be a lot there. And he's a bad business partner. You might be right. You got to dissolve a thing. Because I'm just thinking, if one of my buddies came to me and I was in school, we had a business, and suddenly he was running the whole thing, it It didn't even occur to me to respond the way he did.

Take 50-50, yeah.

Yeah, dude.

Okay, so Ashton, what would it look like? I don't know how it's set up, how you guys formalize the business, but do you buy them out? Do you dissolve the business? Start your own thing? What are you thinking? Because he's obviously long-term, it's not going to work. It's not working. Yeah. He's not who you want to be in business with long-term.

Yeah. The assumption is that it's going to work itself out because once he graduates, he's committed to or verbally committed to coming and working full-time for the business and making up for the fact that I built it from the ground up single-handedly. But I don't know if that's going to happen. I'm only 20. I turned 21 pretty soon. We're doing about half a million in revenue each year.

So here's the thing, dude- For me to just throw this away. As a 21-year-old, A, you're dealing with... I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations, and that's not what I mean. But you're dealing with a breakup, dude. You're dealing with a friend who's not treating you the way you treat him. I wish this wasn't the case for the rest of your life, but people are going to hurt you for the rest of your life. It's just part of it. You'll find a group that will ride with you to the end no matter what. But just hear from me and Rachel, what's happening to you is categorically unfair, and he's revealing himself as a person who lacks integrity. Or maybe he's 20 and he's incredibly immature. But I would not trust him as far as I can see him because he's proven to you he's not a person of character and integrity, and he wants to take the money that the money that you're earning and take it and say, This is mine, just because of some handshake we made, and it's just not accurate. I wouldn't throw the business away, but I would dissolve the partnership.

I would say, I quit this. I'm going to go open my own business down the street, and I would do exactly what you're doing and make all $300,000 or half a million dollars a year on your own. It's what you're doing anyway, right?

Pretty much. Yeah.

I guess- You just got to call this what it is. What are you worried about?

It's not as much of a worry. I just have this hope for the future based on our plans and what we've talked about, that we're going to be expanding into other industries. We're We're a really good team. Our skills and our attributes complement each other.

You're breaking my heart, brother. You're not. This is like somebody talking to somebody who's like, I know she cheats on me, but we're really good together.

She's so nice. She's so nice. She's pretty.

Her dad takes me hunting. I get that, but that relationship's over. Same here, man.

I hate this for you, dude. Because just think about Ashton, as the business continues to grow, the problems you're having are going to magnify. If you are having issues now with you carrying the weight and he doesn't care about that at all, that's going to magnify.

He's going to get married and want to take three months off, and you'll just keep doing the job. He'll want to go to his kids' games, and you'll keep doing the job, and he'll want to start another side business, and you'll keep doing the job.

So either put in some stipulations for him to continue moving forward on what you want him to do. I think that's fair. Okay, we need to work X amount of hours. Or profit-wise, I take a percentage of the profits from the percentage of work that I do.

Or that I book, right? Yeah.

I mean, whatever it looks like, but structure it where it's fair. Then from there, if he can get on board, that's fine. But I will tell you, we work with small businesses all the time through leadership. And it's not always the case. But I'm going to say 98% of the time, we always say the ship that never set sail is a partnership. It's the one ship you just don't want to be on as a partnership. Again, small percentage of once they work, but Ashton, you're going to run into this, versus if you just do it on your own, and maybe he's a manager under you or something, works for you. But long term, I would not continue down this road because there's been no proof of change at all from him. Him initiating it, right?

Yeah, I'd say that's- And I feel like you're bitter, too, Ashton.

Yeah.

Here's the other thing. Don't resent him because that's on you. That's because you didn't set up a boundary and a hold to it. You just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it. Now, you hate the guy. Every time you see his phone pop up, his caller ID pop up on your phone, you're mad. Don't do that to him. Just let him go. Let the person who lacks integrity go. And dude, he's a childhood friend. You all wanted a business. You all had big dreams together. By the way, can we just say this? For a 20-year-old making half a million dollar top line, you are absolutely crushing it. You must be amazing at what you do. Imagine if you had a team working behind you and beside you that had the same work ethic and drive you did. You'll be painting the entire city, right?

Yeah, that's a whole another- You just got to grieve it, dude.

I got to agree with it, man. I hate it for you. Again, if there was some deal, Ashton, that said, Yeah, I'm going to go to school for three years. Can you run this thing? Take the profits for what you make, and I'm going to get back in after I graduate, or something, right? There's common sense ways to approach it, but this doesn't feel like common sense at all, the way he's gone about it.

Yeah. I guess in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising me to do, but I just have to say it. In a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries. But I've tried to do that before, and he just talks around it, and he gets really emotional, and I feel like I can't have a real conversation. Then we get done with the conversation, and nothing changes. Then after a week, I'm back to being like, damn, I'm still getting the short end of the stick.

In a perfect world, another thing, Dave Ramsey would send me an email and just say, Hey, I just deposited $5 million into your checking account just because I love you. You're handsome. That'd be awesome. And in another perfect... You get me to say, We keep doing this all day long. It's just, unfortunately, and you're finding it out, we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a messed-up, sideways, jacked-up world. I want to commend you, dude. You've tried to have the hard conversation. You're doing great business. You had dreams for you and your buddy, and he bailed on you.

And reality. In reality, yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the call, Ashton. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you to our wonderful audience today at the Money and Marriage Weekend Getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co-host. This is The Ramsey Show.

The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in Studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real-time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions, like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life, and discover your next steps to grow. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you.

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