Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I have a question that I want to ask you about your sex life, and I want you to be honest. Do you want to be having better sex? Just stop and think about that. Do you want to be having better sex? Of course you do. Whether you're not having sex at all, whether you're having sex with somebody that you love, but it's just not fun or pleasurable or it just feels like another thing on your to-do list. Let me tell you, things are about to change. Our guest today is the perfect expert to not only tell you that you can have better sex, she's going to teach you how to do it. I am so excited for our episode today because it's going to flip all of the typical sex advice that you get right on a 10. I mean, everybody else is busy telling you what to do to your partner to make your partner's sex better. No. Today, we're talking not about your partner's pleasure. We're talking about your pleasure. No more performing, no faking, no more going through the motions of boring sex while you're thinking about what you're going to have for dinner.
Our expert is going to tell you, you don't have to turn into a different person or change how you look in order to have incredible sex. You deserve pleasure in your life, and you have everything you already need. She's going to teach you how to tune into your own body and ask Access the pleasure you deserve. Today, you're getting the Guide to Better Sex, Intimacy and Love from the number one sex professor in the world. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited you're here. It is always an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. If you're a new listener or you're here because someone shared this episode with you, I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. Now, before we get started, I just have to say something. The title is self-explanatory, but today's conversation is a candid, grown-up discussion about sex, intimacy, and sexual arousal and pleasure. If you got a little ears around, could you please pop in headphones or save this for later? Okay, we alone? Good. I am so excited to tell you about our guest today because she's here to teach you that you can reinvent your sex life at any age.
She has everything that women need to hear about pleasure and sex Her name, Dr. Nicole McNicol's. Dr. Mcnicols is a professor at the University of Washington who teaches the single most popular course at that university. Based on the number of students that take it, she's probably one of the most popular professors in the United States. And today, you're getting a front row seating her class. Dr. Mcnicols is responsible for reinventing the sex lives of millions of people who follow her online for her science-back wisdom, myth-busting facts, and her contagious passion for teaching the truth about sex and pleasure. Dr. Mcnicol's new book is called You Could Be Having Better Sex, and After listening today, you will be. Please help me welcome Dr. Nicole McNicol to the Mel Robbins podcast.
Thank you, Mel. I'm so excited to be here.
I'm really excited that you're here, too, because I know I personally would like to be having better sex, and I'm sure as you're listening, you would like to be having better sex. Let's start with this. Dr. Mcnickels, what could change about my life if I take everything to heart that you're about to share with us today and I apply it to my life.
Mel, if you take all of my advice today to heart, I am going to give you a roadmap to having amazing, incredible sex. It's not going to be the sex that you see in porn or the sex that you see on shows, on TV, or that makes you feel like, Oh, my God, that's just an unattainable goal. It's going to be the sex that feels not only pleasurable, but authentically connected to who you are as a person. I just want to tell anyone who's listening to this podcast, this podcast episode is for you. If you're in a 20-year marriage, if you are finding your way back to each other but don't quite know how, If you are newly single and trying to figure out what sex and dating are like now that you're in this new phase of your life, if you are having okay sex, but you just have this sense that it could be a bit better, I want to really be able to speak to all of those people and tell them that I can give you the science-backed tools and roadmap toward cultivating a truly pleasurable sex life.
Wow. Is that also true if I'm tired?
Yes.
Or I feel self-conscious about my body, or I haven't been with somebody in a number of years.
It truly is. This is actually such an incredibly burgeoning area of research because it's become so clear just how exhausted people are, how exhausted women especially are. You have so much going on in your life between a career, your family, the two dogs, the people who are all depending on you. I think, and this is a message, especially for women, we're so socialized to be taking care of other people and to be attending to other people's needs. I'm telling you that this is about reclaiming something that you really deserve and that is within your reach. A great sex life is not something that is just reserved for people who are in new relationships or have a certain sexual chemistry that's determined from the very start or that are single and have actually real time to give to it. There really are some basic simple habits that we can talk about that will change your state of mind and allow you to achieve the type of sex life that you want that you just may not know how to get to yet.
It's so interesting that we're starting here because you're right, when you are in a new relationship and the chemistry is dazzling, sex is easy and it amplifies everything I'll just speak for myself personally, being married for 30 years, it really does... I hate to use this word, but it starts to feel almost like a burden. You forget what an amazing, intimate sexual experience can bring into your life. What does cultivating a great sex life for yourself add to your life personally that maybe we lose sight of?
Well, I'm so glad you brought that up because we tend to think of sex as something that's just a treat. If you even look at the language that we use around it, it's you get lucky or save room for dessert. The The reality is that sex is something that needs to be prioritized. We understand the effects of exercise or the benefits of nutrition, but most of us don't really have an awareness of the basic benefits of sex. For example, we know that sex, when it's satisfying and consensual and connected, it leads to increased physical health. It leads to increased cardiovascular health. It protects the brain against degenerative diseases. There are even some studies that it predicts longevity. So sex is something that truly is important. But even more than that, it builds ego resilience. And what I mean by that is when you prioritize pleasure, when it becomes something that you spend time cultivating in your life, you experience this upward cycle where you gain this ego resilience. It fills your bucket, so to speak. It causes you to have a broadening effect. You turn outwards, you seek more sources of social support. It allows you to think more creatively, even at a basic cognitive level.
The data shows that when we experience pleasure, we're able to think more creatively and abstractly. We tend to think that pleasure is superfluous, but the reality is we need pleasure in our lives to be able to even just accomplish all of these things that we want to, to live the lives that we want to live. And beyond that, at a more concrete level, if we're looking at relationships specifically, we also have long term studies looking at couples. And what we find is that, yes, as most people know, sexual satisfaction and relationship satisfaction are highly correlated. But it's not the case that just improving your relationship or having high levels of relationship satisfaction are going to naturally lead to a better sex life. What we know is that when people's sex lives improve, when they experience an uptick in sexual satisfaction, later on, they experience more relationship satisfaction. In other words, working on your sex life will improve your relationship in an important, very authentic, powerful way that really deserves attention.
What I love about this conversation already I can't wait to trap my husband in a car. Be like, Hey, let's listen to the Mel Robbins podcast and put this on. Because I think this conversation listening to it with the person that you are in a relationship with, if you are in a relationship right now, could really open some things up. I just want to give a couple of takeaways that I've gotten so far just at the very beginning. Number one, it is transformative just to switch your mindset from thinking about sex as a, I should, I need to, I have to, to just it being a conversation about pleasure and allowing pleasure in your life and prioritizing pleasure in your life.
Exactly. 100%.
The second takeaway that I got already is you talked all about, what was it called? Ego something? Ego resilience. Ego resilience. What does that mean exactly?
It's essentially an academic term for what we think of as resiliency Meaning you're going to be faced with life's inevitable challenges. There's going to be problems that are thrown your way. But what we don't realize is that pleasure actually fuels you to be able to meet those head on. When we're given sources of pleasure, those negative challenges can be right there, but we're just more creative and more likely to find the people and the ideas that are going to help us to solve those very problems. So sex is important, yes, for your health, for your well-being, for your relationship. But it's also going to play a transformative part in your life that is not superfluous, but is actually absolutely essential to your well-being?
I've never actually looked at sex this way. I'm having this huge aha moment about the role that pleasure plays in your life. Because if you really just stop and consider what Dr. Mcnicol is saying, If your whole life is one giant to-do list, if it's work, if it's taking care of other people, you start to feel like that's your only value. Exactly. When you create intentionally the space to allow yourself to feel pleasure, that you deserve that as part of your life, it makes you feel like a whole person. It also almost feels like this little space where you get to be you and you get to experience something other than all of the demands of your life.
Yes, exactly. I'm here to tell you that all of us deserve that.
Wow. Then the final takeaway that I had, and I'd never really seen this before, is the connection between allowing pleasure into your life, creating the space for it, being intentional about it, and how that must boost your sense of self-worth.
I think all people recognize that this is an area of their lives that they would like to improve, but that if you're able to do the work of figuring out what turns you on, prioritizing pleasure, figuring out how to communicate that to a partner, how to keep some elements of novelty alive while still not becoming a whole different person, that that very skill set that is going to enable you to have an incredible satisfying sex life, that's going to translate into other areas of your life. I mean, really, when You're prioritizing sexual intimacy, you're prioritizing yourself, and you're developing skills that are going to help you in just about every other area.
I want to read to you from your best-selling book, You Could Be Having Better Sex. This is on page 18. Here's the reality of sex and pleasure that most people try to deny. We are not born knowing which sensations and which types of sexual activities we will one day enjoy. Just as we're not born knowing which food we'll like and what kinds of entertainment we'll prefer. We learn about our sexual likes and dislikes the same way we learn about what pleases us in other areas of life through experimentation. Then you go on to say, you may love certain techniques and sexual positions when you're younger and different ones as you age. Turn-ons and pleasure zones evolve throughout your lifetime. What is the invitation in terms of how you want us to listen to everything that you're about to teach us?
The reality is that, yeah, we're born thinking that, okay, we should just all be really good at sex, that we should just know instantly what turns each other on. But the reality, and this may not sound sexy, is that sex is a skill, right? It's like any other trial that we have in our life, trial and error, making mistakes. I mean, this is why if you want to improve your sex life, and I think that for many women who are feeling like there's nothing that you can do to change it, that sex is just the way it is, that married sex never changes, there's so much research coming out now showing the power of a sexual growth mindset. And what that is, is the ability to lean into this idea that you need to try different things, that there needs to be communication, that it's okay if you try something that just simply epically fails and you learn to just laugh at it. And so when I talk about this idea with people, especially my students, they're quick to be like, Well, wait a minute. What about that guy that I met when I was back on spring break, Eduardo?
He did that thing with his tongue. He really instantly knew what he was doing. I'm not saying, Mel, that sexual unicorns don't exist.
Everybody wants now Eduardo's tongue still. I'm telling you- What was Eduardo doing with his tongue on spring break?
We need to get there. But I'm telling you, we can teach each other to have Eduardo's tongue. It's just this trial and error. It is accessible. I want to give you Eduardo's tongue, and I know that I can do that.
How do you start to live with a sexual growth mindset?
You start to lean into this idea of experimentation and failure and learning to communicate through that. When we look at couples, for example, and we ask them about, well, what do you believe about sex? What are your attitudes? People who have a sexual growth mindset, they say, I do believe that sex over time can change, that it can improve, that if I communicate with my partner and we learn about what turns us on, and if we engage in things like masturbation, which gets completely shamed in our culture, but is a totally necessary tool to understand your body, you can learn and you can bring those conversations, no matter how awkward or scary they may seem to your partner, and your sex life can improve. It won't improve overnight, and it may take some time, and there will be things that, No, actually, honey, that It wasn't quite Eduardo's tongue, but let's try this instead. But you can get there. Whereas people have sexual destiny beliefs, which are the opposite of sexual growth beliefs. They tend to think sex is what it is. Married sex just never changes. A person has a certain level of skill.
It never gets better. Those are the people that really start to struggle. It really is that mindset that is just way more predictive of sexual satisfaction than any innate skill set that we think that we're simply born with.
Well, I love that because then the first step is just literally adjusting your mindset to say, we can make this better. We can learn how to have more pleasure together. We can experiment and have fun. For the person who's listening who really just wants more sex or better sex, what is the biggest misconception that is keeping them stuck from having or better sex?
I think in the context of relationships, it's that an amazing sexual experience begins with feeling wildly turned on and excited the minute your partner walks in the door. But for the vast majority of us, especially women who are in long-term relationships and who have a lot of things on their plate, desire might be something that kicks in only after you've started touching your partner. Sometimes we need to get out there and actually be trying an action, and then we realize, Oh, this is actually really fun. This feels really good. My mind and my body do want this. And so in learning tools to allow yourself to get into the mindset where you can be physically intimate with your partner and be touching your partner and be connected to your partner, I think people don't realize that sex can be incredible even when it comes from that place.
And if you think of that- That place of like, I don't really feel like it, but I know I want better sex, so I'm going to reach over and touch you even though I'm not turned on. I think a lot of times, okay, this is probably about to turn into my own personal sex therapy session. But a lot of times there is that ambivalence that you feel that you want to be closer, but maybe you don't want to have any course. Do you see what I mean? Because I'm in that mode where I'm not really... I'm tired.
Yes.
But I love you and I'm trying to signal that I want to kiss and hold you for a little bit, but I don't really want to have to do all the others. You know what I'm saying? I don't think this is a fair- A hundred %. Is that a common concern? Yes. Do you hear that?
Oh, absolutely. I think that really the key there is building habits of being able to touch your partner in not nonsexual ways on a regular basis. Your phone should not be the last thing that you touch at night before you go to bed and put it down. There should be some cuddling. It's just that physical touch and connection. But I think what happens is that if you don't have that regularly in your life, then every time your partner goes to touch you, you're going to feel like, Oh, God, no, wait. I don't have the energy for this tonight. You almost feel yourself recoil. And that can be a horrible feeling because you know you love your partner, you know you're connected, you know you're attracted to them, and they're touching you. And suddenly you feel like, Oh, God, this feels like there's an obligation if I engage in this. I think we need to normalize cuddling each other, right? Even if it's just hugging. If you just simply hug your partner for 90 seconds a day, it's going to build relationship satisfaction, and it's going to lead to you naturally experiencing more desire.
Well, that's a great specific thing to do. If you're the person that wants to be having better sex, but you're in that mode where you don't want the touch to signal like it's on. The takeaway here is just start more non-sexual touch, more like looking at the person in the eyes, holding their hands while you're sitting on the couch. That intimacy builds the bridge that then helps you step toward the actual growth mindset around sex when you hit the bedroom.
Yes, exactly. But the other thing that I think is really important for people, and especially women to know, is normalize giving yourself the space and having patience for yourself to know, I might not be wildly turned on right now, but why don't we try cuddling, or why don't we try even just being next to each other, having the sides of our bodies touch while we're reading our books or watch whatever it is that we're doing? If you start doing that, and this is backed by years, decades of research, a lot of times you will find your body starting to turn on. You get close to your partner and you start to think, Oh, this. I want this. This feels good. And then one thing leads to another, and you are having incredible sex. We need to give ourselves permission to explore the possibility of intimacy on certain evenings where we're not quite positive if it's what we're really aiming for that night. Give our bodies time to turn on.
Is there research around how long it takes the average person or the average woman to turn on, so to speak?
I mean, one of the most common refrains is, I need more foreplay. Right? And so, yes. And that revolves around this idea that we tend to treat sex according to this very heteronormative script where you start kissing, you start touching. Maybe there's a little bit of oral, you go to penetration, he has an orgasm, and it's over. Very sad script.
Everyone's thinking, Were you in my bedroom last night? Like Dr. Mcnicolson?
What? Exactly.
We need to throw that out. This is one of the reasons that we find a huge orgasm gap is that we rely so heavily on that idea of penetrative sex being put on a pedestal. It's also why when we look at queer couples, they tend to have more equal and higher levels of orgasm rate because they're not just starting from the position of, Oh, sex equals penetration, and then he comes and it's over. But if we're regularly setting a part-time with our partner to allow us to transition mentally and calm our nervous systems, allow our nervous systems to sync up, connect with each other, not just about our days, but about larger things happening in our lives that we're excited or anxious or worried about and really feeling seen and heard in that moment. If we're setting, again, this time for intimacy, that That's going to lead to much better and more frequent sex.
I mean, it makes sense. What is one adult sex ed fact, Dr. Mcnicol's, about women's pleasure that most people were never taught but can change your sex life immediately?
The reality that most people are not taught is that only 18% of women can have an orgasm from penetrative sex alone. Only 18%? Let that sink Eighteen? Eighteen %. The rest needs some clitoral stimulation, either in conjunction while you're having penetrative sex or on its own. So when I teach this and show this data in my class, I have so many people on the edge of their seats, right? Women feeling normalized, right? My female students feeling like, God, I thought I was broken that I couldn't have. Sex just from normal, as we call it in the literature, penis and vagina sex. Also men who feel like, Oh, my God, this explains it. I thought it was a failure on my part that I wasn't doing sex right, that I was failing. But unfortunately, we don't teach people that, and it leads to a huge epidemic of people faking orgasms, especially women faking orgasms, which does do not lead to anyone's pleasure at all.
Is it true? I read in your book that the human clitoris was only mapped out in 2015. That's just a decade ago.
It was actually 2005, but it took about 10 years for it to come into mainstream literature. Isn't that wild, Mel? I mean, if you think about it, right? I mean, and the reason why, of course, is that the clitoris's only purpose is sexual pleasure. It plays zero role in reproduction. And so historically, because female sexual pleasure has been placed in this framework of not important, if anything, threatening, it was just ignored. It was viewed as inconsequential. But luckily, in 2005, a very famous scientist, Dr. Helen O'Cottle, through MRI studies, was able to map its full structure, and it completely turned on its head. Everything we know about female pleasure and everything we know about female anatomy.
Wow.
Yeah.
Dr. Mcnickels, in all of your research and your teaching and writing your best-selling book, you have identified that there are myths that people believe about sex that keep you alone every night. I want to go through them. Myth number one, Dr. Mcnickels, is believing that your genitals are supposed to look a certain way and that there's a normal way for them Exactly.
That is a huge myth that causes so much insecurity. People think that their labia are supposed to have a certain perfect ratio of the outer labia and the inner labia, which usually hang a little bit below or come peak outside the outer labia. So vulvas come in all beautiful shapes and sizes. But penises also come in all different lengths and widths.
What is the average size What's the size of a penis?
It is about five and a half inches. Erect? Erect, yes, exactly, which is not nearly as big as what we're used to seeing in porn or on the internet.
So for somebody who's listening that has for their entire lifetime, shame themselves because they believe they are too small. Right. Dr. Mcnickels, what do you want them to know?
I want you to know that the size of your penis does not matter at in terms of its ability to pleasure another person that you are capable of experiencing just as much pleasure as any other person with a penis, and that it is not a measure of your manhood in any way or form. You don't need an enormous, ridiculously huge penis to be having great sex. If you do, great. Congratulations. High five. That's awesome. But it is not a prerequisite to incredible orgasms and sex.
Dr. Mcnicol's, I am so glad you're here. I love how you are explaining this. I feel so empowered already. I know you do, too, as you're listening, I need to hit the pause button. I don't want to, but we need to. I got to give my sponsors a chance to share a few words, but I want to give you a chance to share this because if you're listening and you're thinking, Oh, my God, my partner needs to hear this, or my sister needs to hear this, or, Holy cow, this is unbelievable. Be generous with this. Share this episode with one person that you love, whether that's your spouse, your partner, your best friend, your sister, somebody who you know could benefit from this really no holds bar conversation about pleasure. Do it now. And don't go anywhere, because we will be back with more from the amazing Dr. Mcnickels in just a few minutes. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel Robbins. You and I are here with the extraordinary Dr. Mcnickels, and we're learning how to reinvent your sex life and have more pleasure at any age, any stage. Another myth, Dr. Mcnicolson, that people believe is that if you don't orgasm fast or you take too long, that there's something wrong with you.
Yes. This is particularly true, I think, among women. First of all, if you're looking at a sexual experience, on average, a woman has an orgasm about 10 to 15 minutes in. For a male, it's five minutes within the beginning of penetration or the beginning of stimulation. Most women, in the context of partnered sex, at least in the context of straight sex, if they're having any an orgasm from penetrative sex, it's having a lot later in than it is for a man. That is normal. Just because it takes a little bit longer does not mean at all that it is less intense or less pleasurable. We tend to be so incredibly focused on numbers. If you even look at the language around sex, achieving orgasms, finishing. We're so numbers and goal-oriented. It's okay if it takes a little bit longer. In fact, that's better. It means that it's more exploratory. It's a longer experience. But the other thing is just coming back to the importance of the clitoris. Although we find that women in having partnered sex in the context of straight sex will have an orgasm later in than men, when you look at the speed with which an orgasm occurs for men and women when they're masturbating, it's exactly the same.
It's about 4-5 minutes.
Okay. I just want to make sure I heard that. Yes. And that as you're listening or watching on YouTube, you got that. Yes. That the average length of time that it takes a woman to have an orgasm is about 15 minutes if you're full on intercourse. But if you're masturbating, men and women achieve orgasm within 4 to 5 minutes. That's because we know what we're doing.
Exactly, because we know what we're doing. We tend to be stimulating the clitoris. Again, penetrative sex is incredible, but it's not the most efficient path towards orgasm. It's wonderful for things to take longer, but you're not weird if you're taking longer having a type of sex that just naturally isn't designed to be stimulating the parts of you that are most important when it comes to pleasure.
Well, and what's interesting is that since we began with you basically saying, let's flip our mindset and let's really think about your sex life as allowing pleasure in. The second you focus on whether or not you're going to orgasm, now you're in the burden zone Exactly. Versus just being in the moment and allowing whatever it is to feel good.
It's that pressure that leads to so many women faking orgasms. Over 50% of women say they have faked an orgasm at some point. When you interview them and ask for their reasons, it's because often they felt like they had to protect their partner's feelings, right? That if they did an orgasm, that they'd be making their partner feel like they just weren't a man, right? Or that they just weren't a good sexual partner, and that it would lead to this dynamic where one person felt insecure and rejected, and It just leads to more and more pressure. Again, the more pressure you're putting on the sexual experience, the less likely you are to enjoy it, the less likely it is to be pleasurable.
I think 50% is probably a low number. If you're being honest with yourself, you faked an orgasm to either finish things and be done with it or because it's taking too long and now you're up in your head and you're not enjoying it, and now you don't want them to feel bad, so it's like an out.
The trick to pleasurable sex isn't this innate ability to have an orgasm that is just somebody's permanent skill set. It's through communication. It's through being able to use phrases like, guide me, or show me what you want, or is this feeling good, or should I do more of this, or show me what you like. It's using slight shifts in position or slight shifts in initiating something that feels really good to you. It's using size and moans to, again, communicate what's working. It's shutting down honest communication if you're just shutting yourself off from your partner by faking an orgasm and essentially using deception. If you think about the couple that's been together maybe for 20, 30 years, and there's been a repeated pattern of faking orgasms, it can be a really hard place to all of a sudden, 20 years in, say, Honey, I've actually been faking orgasms all this time. All of a sudden, it's this monumental time when you're like, Oh, my gosh, our sex life just hasn't been what I thought it was. Right now, there is a path back from that.
What is it?
It's first you need to figure out what does turn you on. You You need to masturbate. You need to, whether it's on your own in the shower with one of the amazingly creative technologically advanced sex toys we now have available to us, you need to learn what the types of touch and sensation are that make you feel at home and connected to your body. You need to give yourself permission to maybe take longer, like we talked about, than what the whole world has taught you is necessary and expected. It's through communication. This might look like having a conversation with your partner where you say, Look, I know this topic is really awkward, but it's important to us, and I want sex to be as pleasurable as it is, and so let's have an actual conversation. This is why in my book, I give all sorts of questions that couples can ask each other to try to improve the sex that's in their relationship.
I have so many thoughts. I am so happy you're here because I do believe that if you listen to this conversation with your partner, it will open the door. I applaud anybody that is willing to say out loud to somebody, I really want to work with you to improve this. My husband did that in our relationship four years ago. Now, we're going to be married 30 years this year. I remember when he came to me and said, One of my goals this year is that we really lean in and improve our sex life. When he first said that, Dr. Mcnicolson, I was like, What do you mean? What's wrong with it? What am I not doing? Now I have to do more? It just was this, and the poor guy is just trying to connect around something so important. I remember feeling very much like I'm doing something wrong.
Right. I think so many couples struggle with that. It can immediately feel like a rejection or, Wait, oh, my God. You mean, are you not happy in our sex life? Is something missing? Is it not as good as I thought it was. And so, yeah, learning to have those larger conversations where you ask each other really important questions, but you have to frame it as, I love you, right? This is important to us, to me, to you. Sexual intimacy is something I would really love to focus on. I'm attracted to you, and I love you so much. And this is an area of our life that I feel like we should work on because it's fun and because it can always get better. I feel like if you're setting it up with the positive, because one thing that is so true when it comes to sexual communication is that if you are stressing what's working, stressing what's positive, right? Talking about, well, what's the best sex we've ever had, right? Or what helps you to feel the most turned on? What are different types of micro-novelty that we could introduce?
What's a micro-novelty?
Oh, micro-novelty is... So we've all heard that novelty is critical in with keeping sex alive. But we tend to be scared of it. We think that novelty means going to the sex shop, buying the whip, getting the paddle, or that we have to become almost a completely different person in order to have novelty and experience the sex life we want. But the reality is that, yes, novelty is important. The research shows that couples who some form of novelty once a month or more, so a total of 12 times a year, we're talking, experience greater levels of sexual satisfaction than couples who engage in less novelty. So it is important. It doesn't need to look like swinging from the chandeliers.
Because I was going to say the paddles and the whips and stuff sound like macro. Right.
They're macro. And if that's what you're into, go for it, right? By all means. I have a whole chapter in my book if you are are interested in exploring that. But it could be trying a different technique, right? A different type of touch that I go deeply into, right? Read chapters two and three where I talk about all these different types of touch and technique that can be really pleasurable. It could be setting the mood in a slightly different way. We have research showing that couples in long term relationships who set the mood and this is sweet and you can take with this With a grain of salt, but couples who say, I love you during sex report higher levels of sexual satisfaction. Kissing, kissing more during sex increases the chances of orgasm among women and increases sexual satisfaction. It might be having sex at a slightly different time of day. Maybe instead of saving it until the end of the day when you're exhausted or after a huge meal, you schedule it for before you go out to dinner or before you go out at night or earlier in the day. It could be that you've noticed that the best sex of your life happens when you're on vacation.
Maybe it's making an effort to schedule more time to go away, just the two of you, or get a hotel in the city you live. Why do you have to be traveling to do that even just for a single night? Or it could be introducing a blindfold or one of these types of sensation play that doesn't involve any pain. Maybe a a little pinwheel, maybe it's ice cubes. Maybe the blindfold, which increases your attention to your body, the sensations you're experiencing, all of these things, you don't have to be, again, whipping out the paddle.
You can, but it's not necessary. I mean, the sleep mask is right there next to the bed. I could probably be using it.
It's right there. Just put the sleep mask on.
Normally, that signals something else. But you could introduce micronovel.
Exactly. Let's go. Maybe, okay, I think on your sleep mask, it could be double-sided. So one side means sleep, but the other side is your clue. Sex. That's what it means. Your partner is sex. Exactly. Sleep versus sex. Exactly. And the beauty of things like a mask or any when you're cutting off one sensation, you're automatically, your body is compensating by tuning in to other sensations. So you are immediately going to be more sensitive to touch. You're also going to be more in the present because you're going to be so focused on that type of touch because your body is relying on it.
Dr. Mcnickels, you are explaining so much. I feel so empowered. I know as you're listening, you feel the same way. Here's what I want to do. I'm going to hit the pause button. Let's give some love to our sponsors, listen to what they have to say. But please share this episode. Share with your partner, especially if you're starting to feel like or you don't know how to bring the topic of pleasure or your sex life up without it getting awkward or tense. Let Dr. Mcdickles open the door and don't go anywhere. Because coming up, she has more specific and simple steps that are going to help you reconnect with pleasure in your life, reconnect with the person that you love without shame, without blame, without pressure. And don't go anywhere. There is so much more we're going to dig into when we come back. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are talking with the extraordinary Dr. Mcnickels. We're learning all about the importance of pleasure, the importance of sex, and enjoying your sex life at any age and any stage. All right, let's just jump back right in.
Dr. Mcnickels. Another myth that people believe about sex is that if you fantasize about something, it must mean you really want it and you feel guilty for even thinking about it.
I really wish I could free people from the shame that they experience around their sexual fantasies. There's wonderful research on it that exists now. One of the major takeaways is that people fantasize about really wild, diverse things, and that what you fantasize about is not necessarily what you want in real life.
Dr. Mcnickels, how do you want us to think about our sexual fantasies?
I want you to, first of I'll normalize whatever fantasy you're having. For those of you who are wondering, the most popular sexual fantasy in America is threesomes. Let's take that as an example, multi-partnered sex. Not everyone that is having a fantasy about threesomes actually wants to have a threesome. In other words, a lot of people might have that fantasy. It gets them turned on, Maybe they even think about it when they're masturbating. But the reality of a threesome feels overwhelming, unappealing. How would that even work? I mean, personally, I know with my ADHD, I don't think it's too much. It's I wanted that category. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that it's not natural to fantasize about it. Same thing with taboo activities. Having sex in a public place. Public sex is a very common sexual fantasy. Having sex in the airplane bathroom. Having sex in a situation where you might get caught. Very, very common. They're tied to certain interesting personality correlates, but they don't necessarily predict what we want to have happen in real life. It's not just that we're having fantasies about wild, kinky things. The reality is that all of us really want to be desired.
Feeling like somebody else really wants you is a huge aphrodisiac, which I don't know if you've seen the show Heated Rivalry.
Okay, for anybody who has not seen this show, this show right now, as we're taping this conversation, everybody's talking about it. It's about two male pro-hockey players who are arch-rivals who fall crazy, madly, obsessively in love with each other. I binge-watch it with my husband. I love that. Never in a million years did I think a television series about two male hockey players falling in love and having sex would be one of the biggest turn-ons ever. It's helped my sex life so much to watch Heated Rhyme.
Yes, me too.
Why? I was really thinking about this because I think it was observing the just desire on your knees, take your pants off. After 30 years of marriage watching this show, I'm like, Oh, my God, I remember that.
Exactly. Chris. Exactly.
Why does that happen? What was happening in that? Because if you had the same experience experience. I'm sure it is enlivening the sex lives of millions of heterosexual women, but why?
Yes, exactly. I mean, that's what's fascinating is that the main viewership of that show are heterosexual millennial women. It's a hit for heterosexual women because that show taps into our fundamental need for desire. If you look at those two male hockey players, it's not just about the physical sex that they're having. Although, to be fair, it's hot. But it's also just exploding with the tension between them, them wanting to connect with each other, have sex with each other, falling in love with each other, but feeling restrained from doing so. I think it really speaks to the fact that, first of all, desire and passion in romance, it's one of a America's top sexual fantasies, and it feeds into this very core human motivation to want to feel wanted. We all want to feel like our partner desires us. It's also pointing into something else really fascinating about human sexuality, which is that a lot of times the things that we fantasize about or the things that we can watch and get turned we're on by don't necessarily line up with what we want in real life. It's because we are designed as human beings to be creative in our desires and to place ourselves into imaginary situations that allow us to open ourselves to fantasies and desires and emotional states that are core to our level of wanting, but that don't translate into the details of what we want to do in real life.
In heated rivalry, there's this sense of egalitarianism. They're both rich, they're both hot, they're both star hockey players. Seeing them together Seeing them navigate a relationship where they both have equal power. It's not a man dominating a woman. It's not a woman experiencing the need and the desire which we're used to seeing. It's showing men express that desire and longing and wanting. We don't normally get to see that.
Well, that makes perfect sense because inside each and every one of us is this innate want to be desired. Yes. When you see people devouring each other like that in the intimacy building and the connection building, it reminds you that you want that, too, in your life.
Exactly. We all fundamentally want that in our life. Heated rivalry isn't just about the actual physical sex scenes. It's about that dimension of wanting. I think for a lot of women seeing that show up in men, they relate to the wanting, but also seeing that it's something that's a universal emotion, a fundamental need, not just a gender behavior, is pretty activating sexually and mentally to a lot of us.
Dr. Mcnickels, you have another myth about sex, which is that this belief that your sexual identity should be fixed, that it's crystal clear to you, and that if you're still figuring out your sexual identity, that there's something wrong with you.
Yes. We now know from so much research, Siri Van Anders, Lisa Diamond, so many incredible researchers in this field that show how fluid sexuality can be and how multidimensional. Meaning that sometimes the sexual orientation that you start out having stays consistent throughout your life. But a lot of times it evolves. A lot of times you may not be totally sure who you're attracted to, and you discover it later on in adulthood or through college years. There's especially so much stigma Particularly towards people who identify as bisexual. The bisexual community in general is faced with this idea of, Oh, you're just weird. You haven't decided yet what you are. You're just on a pathway to being gay. But the reality is that a lot of people are attracted to more than one gender, and that's okay. In fact, when you look at a woman who identify as bisexual, they tend to have that not as just this phase that they go through and then later on become gay or straight. But it actually tends to be more often the case that they transition towards being bisexual. That's important to point out because 23% of Gen Z nowadays identifies under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella.
Of that group, 80% identify as bisexual. I think that it's time that we celebrate that fluidity, that multidimensionality. That doesn't mean that you're secretly hiding your real sexual orientation, it just means that we're complex. Sometimes what we enjoy in our imagination is just what makes us uniquely human. Sometimes it doesn't translate into what we want in real life. It's multidimensional, and it just also depends on the particular domain, fantasy, imagination, what you actually want in real life. It can vary across those contexts as well.
I love that answer in that context and framing because it just makes you feel normal. It helps you put the fantasies or the things that turn you on into context of just the importance of desire and pleasure in general in your life.
Yes, exactly.
So helpful. A final myth that you talk about related to sex is that if you are into nontraditional sexual activities or kink or whatever else, that it's weird or it's unhealthy or there's something wrong with you.
Yes. There is, unfortunately, this long history of shame towards people who are kinky. The idea is that if you are kinky, you must have experienced childhood abuse. That's a major myth. And that you are just trying to relive this abuse over and over and over again. This myth is so pervasive that there's actual studies showing that this is not the case. There have been studies looking at people who are kinksters and looking at their, interviewing them about their childhoods. No, actually, the majority were not abused as children. What it is, is a need for novelty and excitement. This is, again, almost something that is being thought of as almost part of the sexual orientation research, which is that some people want connection and slowness and reassuredness and stability and security and prediction and control in their sexual experiences. Some people are just oriented to want excitement, thrill, maybe entering into a headspace that is absolutely completely opposed to the headspace and identity that you have in the rest of your life. And that can actually be a healing thing. I want to normalize people having all different forms of sexual expressions and interests. And look, kink is something that more and more people are getting into.
But again, because of the media that they see, they don't understand that it involves consent. It involves having conversations ahead of time about what you're into, what you're not into, what you want to feel, what your safe where it is. I want to be able to normalize that because, I mean, here's the reality, Mel, is that those lessons that we often learn from the community in terms of consent and communication throughout the whole experience, they're not just relevant to people who are practicing kink. They actually can help all of us. It really models how consent and that ongoing checking in with a partner throughout the whole experience can make sex better. It can make it hotter. It can add that excitement and that desire and that thrill. I feel like by showing them, I'm normalizing something that somebody in the audience, many are probably thinking, Okay, wow, I've always fantasized about that, and I thought I was weird or broken or wrong. We're talking about this in a really open way.
Dr. Mcnickels, can you talk to us about the clitoris?
I actually brought some friends with me that could illustrate what we know now.
Absolutely. Okay. Let's go there. Dr. Mcnickels, here we go. Let's do it. If you're listening and you're not watching on YouTube, you have picked up... This is like a stuffed toy. What is that?
This is my lovely stuffed, plushy, clitoris and vulva that shows the external structures as well as the internal structure.
It looks like a purpily clam, almost. It does. It's like a little baby in the middle of the clam, wearing a hooded towel. It's cute.
Exactly. Oh, my gosh. I'm holding my stuffed clitoris. What I'm going to point to first is what you, Mel, pointed out as what looks like- A little baby head. A little baby head. And this is at the top of the vulva. And just to orient you first, on the outside, it has what are known as the outer lips of the vagina, which are the labia majora. Then inside, we have the inner labia, which are the labia minora. Before we go any further, the inner labia are really critically important because they have tons of nerve endings in them. They do? They do tons of nerve endings that are really related to sexual pleasure. People do what I call gun it for the clit in the beginning of sexual pleasure. You do not want to gun it for the clit because the clit starting out is going to be very sensitive. Sensitive, yeah. It's not going to feel good if you just immediately go there and touch it. The trick is you need to First of all, embrace the idea that the full body is an erogenous zone. It feels good to be touched everywhere. But then you want to warm up around the outer labia, which has nerve endings, and then these inner labia.
Now, I need to also mention something critical about the inner labia. People don't realize how important these are for sexual pleasure. And yet in porn, we see totally unrealistic portrayals of what they look People are literally going into a surgeon and having their inner labia shortened because they think it'll make it look tidier and neater, according to what they see. Oh, my God.
Well, you can't even see down there, so I don't know why you'd be doing that. I know. Unless you're very bendy I just want to make sure as you're listening, just imagine it's the outer lips. It's this little, or depending upon your body, just the ones that aren't so big on the outside that are on the inside that you're talking about. When you move up to the top of the anatomy, now we have the part that I describe like a little baby head in there, nestled in. But that's the clitoris.
That is the external portion of the clitoris. External. External portion. I think this is fascinating. It originates from the exact same embryonic tissue as the glands of the penis head. It does? It does, which if you think about it, means that by ignoring the clitoris for decades, we were essentially ignoring the equivalent of the glands of the penis, and it develops from the same tissue as the glands of the penis, meaning it is just as critical to pleasure as the head of the penis. So this part is critical. Do not lose sight of that. And then Mel, there's also a very important place right between the vulva and the entrance to the anus. That's like a flat piece of skin That can be incredibly sensitive and responsive to erotic touch. So we fall into this trap of thinking it's just about the clitoris or it's just about the head of the penis. But all of these places can be incredibly sensitive and feed into a lot of pleasure. It's just a question about experimenting and finding what feels right to you and for your partner. But here's the thing, though, is that you might be thinking this, you might be listening this episode thinking, Okay, clitoris.
Got it. Underneath the clitoral hood, check. I know where that is. But what many people don't know is that, and what was discovered in 2005, as I turned around my stuffy- What the hell is that?
I don't even know how to describe what the hell that is?
These are the internal portions of the clitoris. These are incredibly important.
Okay, so let me just make sure I'm following this. Yes. First, Dr. Mcnicol's, you said, Don't just go right for the clitoris. Exactly. Pay attention to all of that. Warm things up. Then when you go to the actual clitoris, which is at the top of the female anatomy, that it's made from the same tissue that a penis would form from. It has the ability to swell and become erect when stimulated. You've now turned around the little stuffed clitoris, and now all of a sudden, you've got these... I don't even know what to describe that as.
It has these external wishbone structures that are extending 6-8 inches down inside your body. What? Inside? Yes.
Wait, When it swells, it's 6-8 inches into your body.
Exactly. It's a lot longer than people realize.
Because you only see a little bit even when it swells.
Yes, exactly.
That's incredible.
It's incredible. What we're looking at here are the outside structures, which are the crura. Then we have within the crura, the vestibular bulbs, which are another inner wishbone structure. Now, these are both going to fill with blood and become aroused and erect during sexual arousal. Okay, so you might be thinking, All right, well, that's fascinating. The clitoris has internal structures, but what does that mean for pleasure? It means that if we think about pleasuring the clitoris, we've got the glands, the outside portion. But then if we're thinking about what feels good from a penetrative standpoint, we want to be able to penetrate these internal structures. In other words, if you're watching this, if you're sticking your fingers about 2-3 inches inside the vagina and stimulating the upper wall 2-3 inches inside, you're going to be hitting against these internal structures of the clitoris.
It's not just swelling outward, it's swelling inward.
Yes, exactly. It's because all of this is inside the body. This is wrapping around the vagina.
So you've stuck your finger. Nobody's ever explained this to me before.
I know. It's critical about anatomy.
What is the most common question that you get when you start talking about the clitoris and the anatomy of a woman.
How big a penis has to be to be able to stimulate it, I would say, is a big thing. When I talk about the fact that this is only 2-3 inches inside side, it's showing you that you don't need some enormous porn-sized tool to get in there. That literally for a woman, right after you enter the vagina, it's just a a short amount of space right inside that is swelling where all of those nerve endings are. Exactly. Again, this is the vagina where this clitoris is wrapping around internally. If you are, again, sticking your two fingers, anything inside this, where man, woman, whoever you are, and you're stimulating the top part.
Dr. Mcnicol is literally sticking her two fingers out, and you're now lifting up. Exactly. Exactly.
The way I describe it to my students, it's like the Spider-Man technique.
Oh, you're going to spray.
You're going to write like this, and then you're going like that, like a wave motion.
She's making like a come hither.
A come hither motion. We both said come hither because that's sexy. I love that. It's sexy.
It's all like, Come over here, it's come hither.
We're in tune.
Yeah, you're like, stroking it like Spider-Man.
Exactly. We used to think of this as the G-Spot.
See, I thought the G-Spot was way up top somewhere. We're always searching for it. I didn't know what...
It's right there? It's right there. It's right there. It's just two to... And so most people are like, Well, I don't have a G-Spot. And they're searching too far deeply into the vagina because the reality is that it's exactly, it's just 2-3 inches there. And it feels a little bit different than the other tissue in the vagina. The texture of it is a bit closer to a walnut as opposed to being smooth. Wow. Okay. Yeah, almost like the backside of cardboard, how that's bumpy? If you just put your fingers over that. Got you. Okay. The G-Spot actually has a long, fascinating political history behind it because Freud used to believe and tell all of us that vaginal orgasms, which were the kind that you had with penetration, a penis, were more mature than clitoral orgasms. Essentially, what this was suggesting is that women who had on their own, aka masturbating, were not as emotionally evolved as people who are having orgasms with a partner.
You just taught us that only 18% of women can have an orgasm when there is something inserted in their her.
Exactly. So essentially, Freud was saying that 82% of us are immature simply because we can't have the sex that requires a man, which if you think about it, is really appalling. But here's what's fascinating is that for a person who is having an orgasm from internal stimulation, it's usually because it's stimulating. What we now call it's not some magical spot the way we used to think, like the G-Spot. We call it the clito-urithral vaginal complex.
That's way too long. Clitoral-urithral vaginal complex.
Yes, close enough. Very good. The idea is that All these structures are related. In other words, when you're having an orgasm from internal stimulation, you're still having a clitoral orgasm. It's just stimulating the clitoris from inside.
Okay, hold on. I just want to make sure I just caught this. So when a woman is having an orgasm, whether it's because a penis or another object is inside of her, or she's having an orgasm because somebody is using the Spider-Man two-finger come hither wave technique, just two inches in, or she's having an orgasm because you are stimulating the outer, the inner, and the clitoral area. Whenever a woman is having an orgasm, the clitoris is the thing that is pulsing. Is that right? Exactly. Why did I not know that? I always thought, if you're inside me, then the orgasm is actually coming from somewhere else. You're basically saying any of the stimulation is just to get the clitoris to go.
Exactly. Oh, my God. Yeah.
Why did I not know that until I was 57 years old? That's like, what?
Because we're women and our sexuality has historically been sidelined and viewed as an important because if it's not tied to reproduction, who cares? Scientists have actually put women inside MRI machines and looked at what's happening in their bodies during orgasm.
I'm trying not to imagine what that research study looks like, by the way.
It's amazing that we even have this. Whether it's stimulated from the external portion of the clitoris, the vaginally, just through fantasy alone, some people can even have an orgasm just from fantasy alone, it involves the exact same sequence of contractions of what we call the orgasmic platform, which are all of the muscles that are tied into orgasm. One of the most important ones is the pubococcus aegeus muscle. Don't worry, that took me several years to pronounce.
Caucalgie. Okay, keep going.
Otherwise known as the pelvic floor.
Oh, that's the technical name of the pelvic floor?
Yeah. It's essentially the same thing that you can strengthen by doing Kegel exercises. I'm sure most people might know, but in case you don't know what a Kegel exercise is, it's that contraction of muscles that you do when you're trying to stop the flow of urine. The idea is that if you do a certain set of those a couple of times a day, that that will strengthen your pelvic floor and actually can lead to more intense orgasms. The beauty of- Does that work? I think it does. I think it's incredibly important, especially for women who are menopausal or postmenopausal, or after childbirth, when that tissue can get stretched out. Now, I do want to point out there are certain women who have a very tight pelvic floor already who don't want to do that exercise. But for most people, it can be really helpful. But yes, it's the same contraction of muscle. So this idea, I remember sitting around with girlfriends in college and thinking, Well, I can have a clitoral stimulation, but I can't have one from vaginal sex. And just thinking that it was some Holy Grail of a different type of orgasm, it's not.
We see blood flow to slightly different areas, but the contraction of muscles in those two different types of orgasms is totally equivalent. So you are not missing out. I find that those facts to be liberating.
Yes. And very empowering.
Yes. And that is my absolute goal with teaching people about this is that you are not missing out on some Holy Grail of orgasms. If you can't have a orgasm just simply from penetrative sex alone.
Well, it makes perfect sense because the orgasm is mechanically the same thing is happening, regardless of what produced it. Dr. Mcnickels, we have a bunch of listener questions, and I want to start with one from Karen who's 56 years old, and she writes in, Dr. Mcnicol's, I want to have sex, but it hurts now. I'm dry, it burns, and I'm starting to dread intimacy because I'm scared it's going to be painful. Is this just menopause? Is there anything I can It absolutely can be menopause.
That sounds like menopause to me. We are in a fabulous time right now where there has been so much more awareness brought to the impact of perimenopause and menopause. It's a time when, look, levels of progesterone and estrogen are rapidly declining, and that's going to have the effect on the vagina of making lubrication harder. There can be atrophies of the vaginal walls, and yes, that can lead to sexual pain. But sex should not be painful. It should absolutely never be something that you're just suffering through. And so I think it's amazing that we now have the Black Bottle Warning from HRT therapy removed, that people are taking different types of hormones. I personally will say that I take it. It has been transformative in my own life taking estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone therapy has also been really revolutionary for women. We don't know that we have testosterone in our bodies, and actually, we lose it dramatically during menopause. By introducing just small amounts of it to get it back to where it was in our 30s and 40s can have a huge effect on our sex drive. I want to be careful because I'm not a doctor, I'm not a medical provider.
I can just speak from my experience and from what I've read myself, which is that it can absolutely be hugely helpful, as can things like estrogen creams, which can simply be applied directly to the vagina.
If you're in menopause and you're going through hormonal changes or perimenopause, and you're experiencing dryness, other than HRT, is there anything else? Like use lube, this is your body.
Lube, yes, exactly. There are so many beautiful types of organic, flavored, name your what you like lube that we should all be having and displaying beautifully at our night stands. We've come so far in the types of lube that are available that can be wonderful and don't have to be messy and can be fun to use and can really just make sex. In general, I tell people the wetter, the better. So the more lubrication you can have down there, the off you're going to be. And estrogen creams, too, that can really help to rebuild the tissue around the vulva can be helpful. When we talk about menopause and we talk about perimenopause, I want to also just bring up that obviously, as thrilled as I am for those conversations, I don't want women to lose sight of the fact that there are other very real things happening in your sex life that could be influencing your desire. For example, if you are feeling stressed out and exhausted and overwhelmed and taking care of everybody else's needs, when we look at all the variables impacting women, that can have just as much of an effect on lowering your level of desire as can the hormones.
Equally needs to be addressed. Whether it is through having conversations with your partner about perhaps how to rearrange different divisions of labor in the household, the more you have a partner that can lean in and help you to feel like you are achieving your dreams and that you are able to have support where you need it. I tell people, I don't think mystery is the secret to keeping passion alive. I think it's gratitude. I think it's really being able to appreciate all that our partners do to help us, help our families, the ways that they lean in. Because so often it can be these hidden culprits in your relationship, these tiny resentments that can start to grow if you feel like you're not appreciated or If you feel like you're just simply not seen or not heard in your relationship, then we need to understand everything and be interested in everything about our partner, not just what they did that day, but what they want, what they're interested in, what they're worried about, what their insecurities are, what the details are of the hobby that they're really into, what the details are of the work that they're working on.
Because the more that we can see in relationships, the more we feel connected and see each other, the more we feel heard, the more gratitude we express, that is going to be a pathway, I think, into that desire that we all crave, that really sets the tone for a healthy sex life.
When you say gratitude, are you talking to our spouse that they need to be more grateful for us because when you hear it and you're also the mom and the wife, and you're taking care of everything, and you're exhausted, and your hormones are all over the place, and, and, and, and, Exactly.
Want to have sex with you? Exactly. Talk to me about this gratitude piece and what you actually mean. I hope that you are listening to this with your partner because I want you to both experience gratitude. But yes, I think especially for women who are in relationships where you are working to manage everybody else's needs, maybe you have a career as well on top of that, you are thinking about the kids' parent-teacher conference that's coming up or the dog that ate the Cran set last night. Now you've got to call the vet and figure out exactly what's going on. There's so many responsibilities. You're doing so much. To the extent that your partner, your husband or whoever you are with, can lean in and recognize that, really understand just the enormous amounts of emotional and invisible labor that you are undertaking, that is a huge aphrodisiaque. That is going to help you feel needed, feel seen, feel appreciated. Distance does not make the heart grow fonder. Gratitude does. We need to be appreciating all that our partners are doing. And yes, of course, this goes in the other direction. Understanding that the men in our lives or our partners are also doing so much, are under a lot of stress, or maybe don't have the ways to find the support that they need because of this culture we live in that under prioritizes being able to give proper attention to men's feelings and insecurities.
He might be feeling a sense of anxiety about things that would really help him to feel more connected to you, too, if he could talk about it. But the most important thing is to feel like your needs are being recognized, that the amount you are doing is appreciated. Because when we feel appreciated, we feel seen. When we feel seen, That turns on our desire.
Our next question is from Maya, 41, Chicago. I've been single for years, and it's like my sex life just disappeared. I miss intimacy, but dating feels exhausting. I feel rusty and insecure. How do I rebuild desire and confidence when it's been so long without forcing myself into hookups I don't want?
Being newly single, I just want to really normalize that. It can be a scary time, right? Whether you are young and still navigating sex and dating culture in your 20s, or if you're in your 40s or 50s and newly single after being divorced, it can feel scary being with a new sexual partner, whether it's been many, many years or if it's just an ongoing part of your life. And so understanding that when you show up sexually, first of all, with a person, again, it's Having this growth mindset, you shouldn't just be assuming that the sex you're going to be having is going to have to instantly out of the gate be absolutely perfect. It's letting go of these ideas of perfection and normalizing. Maybe you feel a little bit different in your body. It's going to take a little bit of time to get back. But in terms of this anxiety around casual sex and dating culture, I want to speak to that specifically because we are in now, I describe it to my students as a culture of chill. It's literally a time when it is very cool to not have... You don't want to catch feelings, quote, unquote.
We don't want to come across as being needy or as codependent. We have all of this language around what is a very basic human need, which is to simply be made to feel feel like our needs matter. When you're looking at casual sex and hookup culture in general, it helps to first know that it is possible to have wonderful casual sex experiences. It is possible when we look at the literature, we do see that absolutely. In fact, if you're even just looking at younger people where the majority of casual sex research has been performed on, that there are a third of people who report having great casual sex, about a third who report that it's meh, good, bad, meaning they felt it was exciting, it was pleasurable, but they just felt maybe a little disappointed in themselves or they felt a little bit not great about the whole experience. It felt maybe a little empty and disconnected. Then there's a whole third of people who felt like it just was a really crummy experience. Look, I think A quarter of 40-year-olds, I just read, are now single. If we look at the average age of marriage, it's 31, we have a lot of people in the population who are trying to navigate singlehood and casual sex and may not be ready for a long-term relationship.
The question becomes, can we look to the data and try to understand what predicts a really positive, pleasurable, exciting sexual experience versus one that leaves you feeling empty and maybe a little bit shook? What we find is a couple of interesting things. First of all, it really largely boils down to motivation. In other words, if you are looking at the sexual experience and coming from a place where you want excitement and it's adventure and it would feel good and it'd be pleasurable and that's the thrill of the chase and it seems exciting, you are probably more likely to have a It's a positive experience. We tend to have more negative casual sex experiences when you're doing it because you're secretly hoping it's going to lead to more, but you don't quite know how to ask for that. Again, because we live in this culture that makes you feel like you're needy if you ask ahead of time, I'm not quite sure where things stand. Can you let me know? Or, I can't quite tell what you want. I'm really into you. This is really exciting. I love spending time with you. I'm really attracted to you.
But I'm not that into casual sex. Can we have a conversation about where we are? Versus also normalizing phrases like, Are you okay if this is just for fun? Are you okay if this is just about a night of excitement? In other words, part of the problem is that because we put so much shame on casual sex experiences, we need to feel like we need to hide our motivation if that's really what we're looking for. By acknowledging that sex can be satisfying in a variety of contexts, what we're really doing is empowering people to say, know what you want. Go after what you want. Are you the person that feels like casual sex could be fun, that maybe while you're single and exploring your sexuality again and maybe looking for excitement, that it could be something that's pleasurable? Great. Don't feel shy about having it. Make sure that you find a partner who is emotionally there and mature and that you really connect with. Or is casual sex just something that you know in the back of your head is not right for you. Some of us are just not wired to be having unattached casual sex, and that is also very okay.
You're not not sex positive if you don't like hooking up. You're not not empowered if you don't like hooking up. You're not not competent if you don't like hooking up. You just aren't what? It's okay, right? It's just about normalizing this and giving people the tools to know what they want so that you can go out and choose and only agree to the sexual experiences that truly make you happy.
What I love about the question you just gave us, are you okay if this is just for fun tonight? Yeah. Is that before you ask it of the other person, you should ask it of yourself.
Yes, exactly.
Because I do think we gaslight ourselves, women in particular, into believing that if I go along with the casual sex, if I drink and I'm down to you know what, that somehow that's going to lead to something meaningful in long term. Right. Now, in the research, is there any breakdown in terms of men versus women?
There are some gender differences, but they're not nearly as extreme as what the media portrays them to be. We see this in the literature, but we also... I mean, I could even just tell you when I pull the thousands and thousands of students that come through my class and I look, for example, at that group that says the casual sex experience was amazing, there are slightly more men than women who report that, but the difference is not nearly as big as you might think. One the data does show, is particularly good at having casual sex experiences, are older women who might be newly single and maybe don't feel like they have the pressure to settle down and they feel a bit more confident, and they feel like they're better able to speak up. That does a couple of things because if you're in that position, you'll feel better asking for what it is that brings you pleasure. So in other words, if you are having an orgasm, if it's truly pleasurable, it's more likely to be a positive experience for you. I don't want to under-emphasize or dismiss the fact that, yes, a sexual double standard still exists.
Women are going to be judged more harshly. It's also more dangerous because they're physically smaller on average, for sure. Casual sex does, for that reason, carry more risks. But I think that, in terms of emotional intimacy, yes, there is data showing that for women, especially when there is emotional intimacy, they tend to be more likely to enjoy sex and to have orgasms.
Here's another listener question. We have two kids. We're exhausted and our house has zero privacy. By the time we get to bed, we're done. How do you rebuild a sex life when life is chaos and you can't just, schedule a date night every week?
I mean, isn't that the fundamental challenge? I can really relate to I've got two teenagers, an 11-year-old, and I remember, especially when they were a lot younger, it's exhausting. It's hard to carve out time where it's just the two of you. Yeah, the scheduling sex and the date night, it just feels like such tired advice. The first thing I want to say, though, is that your kids deserve to have parents that have a healthy sex life. Because like we talked about in the beginning of this podcast, sex and pleasure are critical for your well-being. The more that you can prioritize pleasure in your lives, the more sense of joy and connection that you can model towards each other, the better parents you're going to be. I think a big struggle parents have is that they just don't understand how important this aspect of their life is, not just to the relationship, but to their own well-being. Yeah, it does mean figuring out not just a date night, but again, this intimacy date where you're finding, what is the emotional state that I need to get into in order to feel turned on for sex? How do I like you to initiate?
How do I like you to talk to me before we have sex? Are there ways that we can set the mood ahead of time? Should we be experimenting? Because if we're looking forward to a different type of novelty, then it could be something that piques our interest and gets us excited and makes us pay attention to the moment more. You're having these conversations and engaging in the non sexual, physical touch and setting a part time when you can connect, it will happen. It will absolutely be something that you can just simply close the door at night and know that you're actually doing a service to your kids by showing them that mom and dad have an area in their life that is just about each other, that's just about their own relationship, their own connection, that the kids are, yes, critically important, but they don't always have to be the absolute center of your life 24 hours a day, 60 minutes out of every hour. You can take 30 minutes for just the two of you and close the door, and they will be okay. They will be better off for it, and you'll be a happier person and better parent.
I love that. One of the things that changed my sex life with Chris was when we started having sex before we went out. Because I always felt bloated or a little drunk or whatever when we came back from a date night. Then I didn't want to. But if you have a babysitter or a sister or a friend coming over anyway to watch the kids- Have them come an hour early.
Have them come an hour early.
Be like, Okay, great. We're going to go get ready. Yes. And then you're having secret sex. Exactly. Which is pretty hot. Very hot. Then you have it before you feel bloated after the meal.
Yes. If you're a parent and have a million responsibilities, not only are you full and bloated and a little bit drunk when you get home and not as able to experience pleasure, you're also exhausted. I mean, you started out tired. After that night, you're going to be really tired. So yes, have the babysitter come an hour earlier and enjoy it then.
I love that. But I love the larger context that you deserve pleasure in your life. Yes. And it makes your whole life better. This question is so relatable because it's about sex, pleasure, and how you feel about your body. And this listener writes, After menopause and weight changes, I don't feel sexy anymore. I'm so in my head during sex that I can't relax. I avoid intimacy because I'm embarrassed. How do I get out of that spiral and feel desire again when I don't like my body?
This is so incredibly common, and there's so much research coming out just about, first of all, how much body image can get in the way of our ability to enjoy sex. It really can, as this listener is describing, bring you out of your head. Start judging yourself from a third-party perspective during sex where you're thinking about, Oh, my God, my stomach, my thighs. God, what do I look like from this angle? And this is not being helped by the media, which is showing us, again, totally unrealistic, airbrush AI-generated images of bodies that are not attainable for 99. 99% of us. It's just creating a level of insecurity and anxiety that is literally activating the exact parts of your brain that need to quiet in order to enjoy sex. So the question is, what's the antidote? The most effective tool that you can develop to treat body image issues and their impact on your sex life is to develop a sense of sexual mindfulness. It is a practice that is similar to other types of mindfulness that you might practice in the rest of your life. But it literally means during sex, bringing attention back to your breath, bringing attention back to the sensations that are in your body, looking and focusing on exactly the sexual cues that are emanating from your partner and allowing those to guide the sexual experience.
Now, just like when somebody tries to meditate, it's going to be natural while you're trying to do that for these ideas of, Oh, my God, what What does my stomach look like? Or what do I look like from this angle? That's natural. Just notice those thoughts and allow them to pass out of your brain. Because the reality is that the person you're having sex with, they're psyched to be there. They're not sitting there judging what you look like. And the reality is that you don't need to have a perfect body. You do not need to be hairless or have perfectly sized genitals to have incredible sex. I think it's hard to tell people, and this is where I think the body positivity movement has been both helpful, but also let us astray a little bit in that sometimes it's not going to feel realistic to think, I love my body. I love my body. I love how I look. But I think for some women, that's just not really realistic expectation. But if you look in front of the mirror and you're standing there naked, you can probably find a part of yourself that you do love.
Maybe it's your collarbone, maybe it's your lips, maybe it's your eyes, maybe it's your hair, your legs, your butt. And just focus on that. I remember after each of my pregnancies, I gained like 70 pounds for each one. And your body is just fundamentally different after having kids. But for me, I know it was really helpful was instead of focusing on, Oh, my gosh, my belly, I have a pooch now, and I'm heavier. My body had just done something incredible. It had just produced a life. If we can start appreciating our bodies for what they do for us. They get us to the places we want to go. They allow us to live the lives that we do. You start to have more of an appreciation for your body beyond just how it looks. You are desirable exactly the way you are. Your body, your genitals, don't need to be perfect. It is just a question of practicing mindfulness, being at home in your body, noticing those things when they get in your way, and just bringing your sensations back home where they belong.
Maybe this is too pragmatic of a way to look at this, but one of the things that you've really also taught us, Dr. Mcnickels, is that the parts of your body that give you pleasure, they work no matter what you weigh. Yes. They work regardless of what's hanging or shaking or that you don't like, and that those parts deserve to get some attention.
Exactly.
There's also this focusing on 99% of your body that you hate. You got 1% that's still going to give you an orgasm. So give that part of your body a little bit of attention for crying out loud.
Yes. Amen.
Dr. Mcnickels, what are your parting words?
Own your pleasure and own your fundamental right as a human being to enjoy a healthy sex life and the physical connection and psychological well-being that that brings with it.
Dr. Mcnickels, thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and flying across country and really teaching us and empowering us about this fundamental aspect of improving our lives, which is really seeing the critical role that pleasure plays in your life and teaching us ways that we can be in control of having more pleasure. The book is You Could Be Having Better Sex. Thank you, thank you, thank you for teaching us how to have better sex.
Thank you, Mel. This was such an enjoyable time. I really appreciate it.
Well, I can't wait to hear what you do with this conversation. I just want to thank you for spending time listening to or watching here on YouTube and learning about sex, learning Learning about your body, learning about having a growth mindset related to sex. I am so excited. I cannot wait to listen to this with my husband, Chris. I can't wait for you to share this with people in your life. But mostly, I'm just excited for you to experience more pleasure in your life because you deserve it and now you understand the critical benefits of it. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you. I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what I'm convinced of because of Dr. Mcnickels is that pleasure is a very important part of your life getting better. And now you got the roadmap for experiencing more of it. All righty, I will see you in the very next episode. I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit We're good? Okay, excellent. Do you want me to read this and then we go into pickups or what do you guys want?
I could tell that you're... Okay. You're ready? You're ready to go on. Okay, great. Awesome. You're ready? A plus.
A plus for you. Thank you. Already?
You got an A plus, and now it's just you just have to do this. All right. I just have fun.
Now, Dr. Mcniffles, Work, Work, Work, Couples Therapy, Dr. Mcniffles, pickups. Oh, my God. It was so good.
That was amazing, Mel. Thank you for the opportunity. You are incredible.
You're a pro.
Thank you.
You teach the class on this.
Thank you.
Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.
Siriusxm Podcasts.
In this episode, you are going to learn how to have amazing sex, deeper intimacy, and create real, lasting love. If you’re not having sex, or if sex feels like one more thing on the to-do list, this is what you need to hear right now.Today, Mel sits down with Dr. Nicole McNichols, PhD, a University of Washington professor who teaches the most popular class on campus – which is about human sexuality.There is a reason she is the country’s #1 sex professor. Her message is simple: nothing is “wrong” with you. You were just never taught how desire actually works, what turns you on, or how women’s pleasure is even designed. Dr. McNichols will change the way you think about arousal, orgasm, and intimacy, including the mind-blowing truth that women’s anatomy has been misunderstood for decades. Did you know the clitoris wasn’t fully mapped until the early 2000s?This episode is the sex advice women actually need. This is not another conversation about how to please your partner, it’s not about performing, pushing through, or “fixing” yourself. It’s about pleasure, connection, and learning the skills that make sex feel good again at any age, and in real life. You will learn:-Why desire often shows up after you start, and what to do when you love your partner but “don’t feel like it”-The biggest sex misconception keeping couples stuck (and how to rebuild without pressure)-What most people never learned about the clitoris, arousal, and why penetrative sex alone isn’t the main path to orgasm-How to stop faking orgasms and start communicating in ways that actually work-The simplest way to rebuild intimacy when you’re exhausted, stressed, or parenting with zero privacy-What to do if menopause, dryness, or pain is making sex feel impossible (and why you should not just “live with it”)-How to get out of your head if body image has hijacked your sex life-How to date again and rebuild confidence after a long dry spell, without forcing yourself into hookups If you’ve ever thought, “I’m too tired,” “I love them but I’m not in the mood,” “It hurts,” “My body changed,” or “It’s been so long I don’t even know where to start,” this episode will give you language, relief, and a way forward. Dr. McNichols’ book is You Could Be Having Better Sex and after this conversation, you will. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next with urologist Dr. Rena Malik: The Most Important Sex Advice No One Ever Told You: Revamp Your Sex Life in 10 MinutesConnect with Mel: Order Mel’s new product, Pure Genius ProteinGet Mel’s newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration.Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-freeDisclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.