Transcript of Meidas Health: Dr. Gupta’s Deep Dive with AFT President Randi Weingarten

Midas Mighty. Welcome to another episode of Midas Health. Really excited to have our next guest, Randy Weingarden, join us. Randy. I've gotten to know Randy over the course of the last several years, especially during COVID and ever since. And she needs no introduction. She's one of the nation's leading public sector officials. I mean, she leads one of the most influential, if not the most influential labor union in the country. It touches public school teachers. They represent invent doctors and nurses across the spectrum. It doesn't get more influential than Randy Weingarten. She's going to be talking to us about her new book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers. Her perspectives there. This is broadly so much happening right now in healthcare, healthcare policy, to get her take. Again, she represents the interests of nurses and doctors across the country, so there's no better voice. But without further ado, I'm going to bring Randy on to stage. Randy, thanks so much for joining Minus Health.

I am so glad to be with you. Thank you, Vin. Again, I'm so sorry about the passing of your mom.

Well, for our listeners, my beloved mom passed away unexpectedly a few weeks ago, and she was a neonatologist. There's so much I want to say, and one day I will say, but one thing she did tell my brother and I, I mentioned this to Randy, is that if anything happened to her, she said, To continue with your work after taking a week off, which is why I'm here with Randy. Randy, there's so much that you and I, I know we talk about a lot, but for the Midas Touch audience, I want to first talk about your book. Why Fascists Fear Teachers. Why is your writing?

I don't even have a copy with me. I normally use it, lift it up, have a copy of it. I'll see if I can get it before the end of this session. I wrote it for two reasons. I wrote it as a warning. I think that in the last several weeks, as we've seen the Trump administration disappear people. This last couple of days, there was a teacher in Chicago who was just taken by ICE. But the disappearing of people by these mass men, this indictment of enemies, the military colonization of streets. All of this is what happens in countries that are not democratic. Millions of people on the street basically protesting and saying, no, things, Prop 50 just passing in California. When I wrote it a year ago, I was warning about the backsliding of democracy and issues around or descriptions of fiscistic behavior. I had hoped we would never get to this point, but that was number one. I watched In the election leading up to November 2024, when people like General Millie and General Kelly attempted to warn the country about what happens when there's democratic backsliding, what happens in governments that are fascistic or authoritarian or believe in the rule of one, not the rule of law, what happens in terms of the erosion of freedom.

I didn't actually I had hoped we'd never get to a point that is so scary as to right now. So that was number one. Number two, I wrote, because you know me quite well, Vin, which is for every problem, we have to be out there with a solution. Part of what happens in terms of fictive behavior is they exacerbate the governments that believe in that, authoritarians, the rule of one, they exacerbate fear, they exacerbate problems, they don't solve problems. What is clear to me from my life in education is that educators groups, and frankly, I would argue a labor movement, they are part of the solutions to helping people have a better life. If we look at really, truly what's going in the country, and you could see it from the election. People want a better life. They want their government not to be retaliatory, not to take away their freedoms, not to be autocratic. They want their government to solve problems like the cost of groceries, like the cost of housing, so that people can get ahead, so that our next generation can do better than our generation. I wrote the book as a warning, but also as an antidote to what is ailing America right now.

That is public school teachers are the hope of America. They are the people who are creating the habits of democracy. Why do fascists fear teachers? They fear teachers because teachers create safe and welcoming environments. They create the habits of democracy, like pluralism. They help kids have the skills and knowledge, particularly critical thinking and problem solving, so that kids themselves have the agency to soar so that kids don't have to rely on the strong men leader to have a life that kids themselves in the tradition of America, can do better their parents and can actually be the future of a robust American democratic society. But it all starts with what teachers do and what parents do in terms of kids' lives.

Randy, take us through the book. I know I want everybody to go on their favorite, either into their favorite bookstore or online.

I was going to get a copy of it. I'll be right back.

So you see We're waiting for Randy to get a copy of her book, Why Fascists Fear Teachers. I'm going to wait for the T up here, but for our listeners, there it is. Perfect. I don't want you to bury the lead here by any means, and I want folks to read the whole piece of work, and mine is incoming as we speak. I'm curious if you can walk us through some of the key points in the book. And specifically, people see what's happening with the Department of Education. They see what's happening just in terms of support for public education from this administration. It seems like it's weakening. Is this a one-way door? Can we go back?

Yes. Look, I think that what we've learned from history is that even though it gets harder and harder, the longer there is democratic backfliding, I have great trust and belief in the American people that once they see what's going on and they understand what is happening, we can turn this around. I really believe that. But in terms of education, education is the foundation stone of democracy. The founding fathers, actually, and yes, they were all fathers, and I don't want to put them up on a pedestal, but almost 250 years ago, they understood that education was a bulwark against tyranny. Every single state in America believes in having an education system, and there were two twin, very foundational, Supreme Court decisions that interpreted our Constitution to give a right to a free and fair education to every student in America, documented and undocumented. Those two cases are Brown versus Board of Education and Plyler versus Doe. And so American children have a right to public education, where both Thank you. Where both Donald Trump and Linda McGrann are both right and wrong is that American education, unlike in many European countries, I'm not controlled by the federal government.

They are controlled by a system of local school boards and state governments all across the country. It's basically state governments that make curriculum decisions, that make financial decisions about schools, that set standards. The federal role, starting with the civil rights laws and with, frankly, Lyndon Johnson, and before that, the Brown case itself, which said the separate but equal is not equal. It is inherently unequal. The federal role is basically to make sure that kids who have been left behind are not left behind anymore. The way in which it's been operationalized over the years is through the Johnson administration They gave us money to actually ensure that poor kids could have a level playing field. The Bush Administration decided to make it more punitive with no child left behind and say there has to be assessments to assess that. The Obama administration did a little bit of both. The Biden administration went back to trying to give us money to try to make sure that the civil rights aspects, for example, that kids who have disabilities need to not be in the shadows, but need to actually have a decent education. That may mean if a kid has a physical disability, that is a school system making sure that the kid has access to school.

You can't put a kid who a physical disability on the third floor of a building if there's no elevator and you can't get up the stairs if the kid is in a wheelchair. When we're talking about the federal role, the federal role has always been limited. It's about funding. It's about civil rights. When somebody says, Well, can we go back? Look, what did Linda man and Donald Trump do. They want to get rid of the Department of Education. You want to make it more efficient? Of course. Government should be more efficient. We all want government to be more efficient. But it's essentially saying we want to get rid of the right for kids with disabilities to have a shot at education. And that's why we fight it. It's like they want to get rid of all the student loan work that for years the federal government has done to try to make college more affordable. They want to get rid of things like Title I, which was championed by Lyndon Johnson. I write about this a lot in my book because kids who are poor should have a chance to level the playing field. So what is it that that that McMahon and Trump are really doing?

They're actually trying to harm kids who have been left behind It's like getting rid of Snap or taking away the Obama tax credits and watching without caring that health care premiums are going to double, triple, quadruple for people. Instead of helping the 43 million people who need food assistance or helping the millions of kids who come to school that need extra help for reading or need to lower class size or because their parents can afford devices to have the devices at school or wanting to make sure we can expand Medicaid or expand child health, this administration basically says none of that is a priority for them. Instead, tax cuts are a priority for them, so they cut all of this stuff. Can you turn it around with another administration? Sure. But what happens to the kid in kindergarten right now? What happens to the kid with a disability right now? Kids don't go through kindergarten twice or three times. They're not five years old three times. There's no do-overs for them. It has a real effect.

Randy, just listening to you talk. No, no, no.

Just so pissed. This is an administration for the rich, not an administration for America. And Where can people just want a chance? Level the playing field. That's what the federal government's role in education was supposed to be.

For our audience here, we're talking to Randy Weingarden, who I'd like to introduce as one of the most influential people in America for all the right reasons. She's a dear friend, colleague. We're talking about her book, Why Fashists, Fear Teachers. Please order it. Go to your favorite local bookshop. Randy, one thing of many things I admire about you and the ways in which we got to know each other is you're not afraid to speak up, and especially when others are afraid to speak up for what's right. And obviously, you and I have had a chance to do a lot of, I think, fantastic work together on health advocacy, health information. But I'm wondering, as we saw yesterday, it's November the fifth, November the fourth, pretty incredible results for the Democratic Party yesterday. It feels like more people have a backbone now to speak up. But when there was a lot of fear, more fear, even a few months ago, it was Randy Weingarten and not many others out there fighting the fight, writing the book, helping to partner with me on health topics. What gives you What motivates you? And how has your leadership style changed?

Has it changed at all in the last, say, eight months?

So Vin, I love the fact, and we should actually tell people this, that when we started seeing basically the federal government call away from its commitment to get giving people accurate health information. When we said, Can we do something together, particularly since the AFT is the second largest We represent the Health Union, we represent doctors now, and we represent people who work with kids all throughout America, in public schools, in public services, in hospitals. We started this monthly work vital lessons to try to get people accurate public health information. I really have appreciated our partnership in this. I think what happens is that, and maybe this is the social studies teacher in me, it could be the labor activist in me, when you have an administration that actually wants to change the rules of this country, to essentially undermine the freedom of people wants to remake the country. That's what we have. Project 2025 told us this, but think about the lies of the administration, what Trump said, Oh, no, I don't know anything about Project 2025. He has two people high in the administration who basically are the architects of Project 2025, Steven Miller and Russell Voight.

And so first, he lied to the American people. But the American people bought what he was selling because of their anxiety, because of the fact that most people in America no longer feel like the promise of America applies to them. So part of what we've done as a union is to not be mad at people, but to try to reconnect in community with people to say, Look, the promise of America should be We should have an ability to thrive. Health care is absolutely essential to that. Education is essential to that. So are good jobs. What we've tried to do as a labor union is to say, Here's the path to the future, but we got to fight for it together. It can't just be you, Vin. It can't just be me. So My leadership is about trying to model engaging in community and lifting people up and having the strength, the fortitude to stand up, show up, fight back on things that are American values. It's dignity and democracy. It's affordability and opportunity. What we've learned, and I think we've learned this in every movement is that you need to be in community with others.

You can't do it alone. The autocrat is doing the opposite. The autocratic playbook, the person who wants to be a ruler the one not a rule of one, not a rule of law, they basically operate through fear, through isolation, and through apathy. What we're trying to do is operate through bringing people together over issues of common concern and fighting for it. That's what you saw in the election this week, but you also saw it on No Kings. You saw a week and a half of Mike Johnson and others trying to basically scare the bejesus out of people to not go to no kings. Oh, they're terrorists. Oh, they're Hamas supporters. I mean, for weeks until the hostages were arrived back in Israel, I wore a necklace that said, Bring them home. How dare you call those of us who care about freedom, terrorists or Hamas supporters, both of which we are completely condemn. But that's calling of names, creating fear, isolation, apathy. That's the playbook of the Autocrats. The playbook that I have is how we create community, how we listen and lead, how we fight together for the things that Americans need so that They can get ahead and their families will have a better life the next generation than we had our generation.

That goes back to affordability, opportunity, dignity, and democracy.

Well, if I can say in reaction, I think what you do so well and what's so poignant in your comments, and what I've tried to emulate, at least in the healthcare field, is consistency. It's been an outrage, I mean, to use the word, to watch many of my peers, leaders in health care, they mute in the over the last eight months or fear speaking out on basic foundational facts of the profession of medicine when I think it's ever been more important to do so. The lack of consistency, to me, is exactly what builds mistrust. What you're doing, Randy, and what I think you and I have done together where there's clear traction is be consistent. Are we going to reach everybody? Of course, but nobody reaches everybody. But I do feel in the feedback I've gotten on vital lessons, on the work that we're doing together, what I've seen you do is that consistency matters, courage matters. That actually, when you do it and you don't waver based on political headwinds and what's popular, is that people notice that, and that there's something really, really resonant with that approach. It's on that topic. I do want to pivot.

You're one of the nations, again, I can't think of somebody more that has a wider reach.

Valarie will get you everywhere today.

But you're right. We're on the wake of what I thought was a very transformational day yesterday for the country and the Democratic Party. I know your day is busy. Talk to us about this moment and what you think people are needing to hear when it comes to persuading them to vote in their own self ventures. I think a lot about health care because I feel like every four to eight years, Randy, we constantly seem to have the same. It looks slightly different based on the year, but we're talking about access, affordability, promise to your drugs costs. We've been having that conversation since the Lyndon Johnson administration, if not Truman, just being a history of this or a student of this, the history of health care policy. It doesn't seem like it ever goes away. What are we not getting right about the message to vote in your own self-interest when it comes to, specifically, issues of health care?

Well, I think that we discount the fact that culture plays a huge role in everything that happens in communities and everything that happens in terms of elections. When I say culture, I mean people think that they're voting in their own self-interest. You got to meet people where they are, not where you want them to be. I think that when What we see, particularly take health care. Health care, and I don't want to get into right now, should we have Medicare for all or not? There's lots of reasons why you can't... Once you've settled on a private insurance as the basis for a health care system, it's very hard for that system to change in a way that creates consistency in a good way and that reduces costs. I'm not sitting here saying We should adopt a Medicare for all system, even though personally, I support it. But the problem we have in terms of health care in America It's too damn expensive and it's too profit-driven. Whether it's health care or whether it's drugs, it's too damn expensive and it's too profit-driven. As a result, we're constantly dealing with how do we reduce the costs on individual consumers at the same time as medicine has gotten, frankly, better and better, and what drugs cover have gotten better and better.

But the profit motive has meant that the marginal dollar goes there, and then who pays the cost of it? And I think that's the issue that you have every... I mean, routinely, not even periodically. Now it's routinely. Think about how much effort it took for Biden to just cap diabetes drugs at 35 bucks. For people who are over 65 years old. How much? We were joyful that Medicare could negotiate 10 drugs. And then how long it took to get those negotiations going and how was that process? And think about how Hillary Clinton tried to change health care and how that got... She just got killed during that process. How Obama used literally all of his political capital on getting to Obamacare and how now the way in which the Republicans in Congress are trying to kill it is by getting rid of the tax credits and seeing where it's gone.

Do you feel that We are in a moment, given the events of November the fourth, are you optimistic about the midterms in 2028?

Look, there's a lot of stuff that's going to happen between now and 2026. Frankly, if we don't get through 2026, we're not going to have an election in 2028. But I am, sorry, I'm wearing a pro-student, pro-teacher T-shirt. But I am hopeful that what I saw in the last 24 hours is the American people basically said to its political actors, Remember us? Affordability, that's the issue. They voted for people who cared about trying to address the cost of living. They also said they were really uncomfortable with Trump's abuses of power. They basically said, Remember us, that's who you work for. Work on cost of living issues, work on affordability, work on the promise of America. Don't work on your own cronyism, or don't just work for the rich dudes. That's what I think they said, and they also said they were really uncomfortable with Trump's abuses of power. But at the same time, Trump has the presidency. He basically has the Supreme Court, and he has Congress. So he has all the different levers of government that the founding fathers basically said they tried to divide up all those powers so that it wouldn't all be in one person's hand.

So we have a lot of work to still do for we, the people, to have the power over the course of the next year, as expressed by the elections in 2026. There's still a lot of work to do. Am I hopeful because of how many people came out for no kings? Yes. Am I hopeful because of what just happened in terms of these elections? Yes. But there's a very long road to hoe. When you have a president of the United States that cares more about himself and look, he said it. He told people when he was running that he would be their retaliation, that that he wanted to retaliate against others. But the people basically sent a message that they want the people's agenda, we the people's agenda, not Donald Trump's agenda. So hopeful, yes, but we got to show up on the streets. We have to be engaged. We have to fight for what people need for a better life for themselves and their families.

Randy, you always make me feel better whenever we have a chance to chat and do shared work together. I want to thank you, Randy Weingarden, President CEO of the American Federation of Teachers, AFT, one of the largest labor unions in the country, and author of Why Fashists Fear Teachers. Please go out and get it. Randy, thank you so much for joining Midas Health.

Thank you so much, Fenn. Thank you.

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