Transcript of Episode #62 Featuring Baran Dilaver, Founder of WONDERFEEL! A MASTERCLASS on NAD and NMN! The role of NAD in overall health, The difference between NMN and NAD, The TRUE way to boost NAD and more!

Hey, everyone. Dylan Jameli here today with an extremely exciting announcement. I am now on the Manect app as an expert. That is Patrick Bet-David's app, so you can hire me today. You can ask me questions about hormones, peptides, neuroscience, cardiology, cellular health, finances, faith, religion, whatever it may be. I am there. You can book me for your podcast, and you can also apply to be on mine. But go over, download the Manect app, find I'm not Dylan Jameli. I will answer either by audio, by text, you can get video responses, you can even book a phone call with me. I'm extremely excited to be available to work with all of you, and I thank you all for your support. So check me out on Manect today. Today's This episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies powered by Mitapier. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have Timeline as my favorite and most trusted sponsor. These are the only clinically proven Urolithin A gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives?

What if the key is not just adding years to your life, but life to your years? This all starts at the cellular level. As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline, and one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong, and might appear targets this for us. Take control of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to timeline. Com/dylan to get started. That's timeline. Com/dylan. I assure you, your cells will thank you. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcast. These are always my favorite settings when we get to do them in person. It's just More personable, more impactful. I was blessed enough to get to sit down with my guest at the... It was at the HOS summit, right?

Was it the Biohacker summit?

Biohacker summit. Yes, and I've been to so many. But I hit it off with you like this so fast, and it was just amazing. The conversations and the way that we connected, that's our background in terms of how we met, and it's just been an instant friendship since then. I'm really blessed, first of all, to have met you and to have that. I just want to say that before we even get into anything.

Thank you. You came with blazing questions and excitement, and we were just like, What is why this? And why is that? What is this? It was fun. I'm like, Oh, this guy, He's into what he's doing. Oh, yeah.

I can't help but, man, I'm curious by nature. Anyway, my guest, he's an entrepreneur, he's an inventor, and he's an accomplished executive. Now, prior, he's led numerous startups, and he's served as a CEO and a COO at public and private companies. He's done a lot. He's been at a lot of summits. He does several different appearances. The company that he represents and founded that we're going to talk about a lot today is called WNDERFILL. Wnderfill is a longevity-focused company. They do wellness, biosciences. And the main product is NMN. So we're going to have a deep dive on NMN, N-A-D. We're going to do it all. We're going to overcome obstacles of information that need to be overcome. And we're going to talk about the massive benefits. We're going to talk about what you do, brother. So, Baron, it is absolutely wonderful to have you. Baron DeLaver, co founder, CEO So wonderful.

Thanks for having me. Good to see you.

Hey, man. Thank you for coming in to see me because I know it's a trip to come in here, but it is so much more fun and so much more impactful, like I said. So I want to utilize all this time with you to break this all down.

Well, let's maybe talk about what an MN does, because a lot of people have heard about an AD. They hear it about Justin Bieber and all these big names and Kelly Jenner. They're all using it. Exactly. And they're taking IV shots. They're taking shots, they're doing IV. So what is NAD? And there's a technical way of explaining it. Without NAD, you'll be dead in 10 seconds. It's key to energy production in the mitochondria. Nad helps the ATP production. It takes place in 300, over 300, 400, actually, enzymatic processes. It helps with DNA repair, but that's very technical. So I have a different way of explaining what NAD is with an analogy, and I feel like people connect to it. So think about NAD as the water source, the river that comes from the mountain and feeds the valley where there's one or two towns. There are orchids, there are farms. People are using the water, the river for fishing, for transportation. So it's the life support. It's so essential. And what really matters is when you're younger, that water source is flowing really nicely, it's clean. And as you get older, the water starts becoming less and less maybe clean, or there's maybe less water, or it's not consistent.

And what does that mean? And the impact is not instant. People are still using it for drinking. I'm talking about the valley now. We're back in the valley. But some years, your apple orchard doesn't produce as many orchids. Just think about it as one of your organs. Maybe your liver is not processing certain things as well. Maybe your skin is reacting. Inflammation is a good example. People have inflammation. So in one year, your strawberry fields are not producing as many strawberries or you don't have as much fish anymore. So if people are used to eating fish and fishing from the river, they have to find a different source. There's another organ having to use a different way to cope with it.

It's like the well drying up. Slowly, yeah.

Yes.

Okay. All right. When it comes to NAD, let me ask you Why is it that it wasn't discussed 10, 15, 20 years ago? Why is it all of a sudden so prevalently discussed out of nowhere? And I ask you that for the obvious. You're talking about how vital it is and how we literally, if we didn't have this in 10 seconds, goodbye. Why aren't we talking about this?

It's been known for 100 years. Yeah. So where's it been? Yeah. So it's been known for 100 years. Actually, one of our chief medical officer, one of my partners, Dr. Salsman, was one of the first people who started writing about it. That's what he was working on. This is back in the late '90s. What he was working on is trying to fix the broken BRCA gene, the broken DNA that causes breast cancer, ovarian cancer in a woman. And NAD was one of the things that he used in the enzyme. So he was one of the pioneers writing about NAD, but he comes from the superscientific pharmaceutical background. So his goal was to repair the DNA to fix cancer, not as a supplement. So what happened in the last couple of decades, especially Harvard and MIT medical schools, they have done a lot of research, and the precursors have been discovered. So you mentioned Nmn at the beginning of our talk. So Nmn, nicotinamide mononucleotide, is a precursor to NAD. So you cannot just take NAD. They tried it in the past. Nad doesn't do anything. If your NAD levels are going down, you cannot just take Nad.

That's not how it works. So the discovery is Nmn and NR, and then the clinical trials and the studies, preclinical trials start coming out, and people are like, Oh, wow, this moves the needle. So that's why all of a sudden, the end result is NAD. You start hearing about NAD, the fascination, more clinical studies, more funding.

So he's looking into cancer research and fixing DNA that needs fixed, and he stumbles upon NAD during this process of-I'm being more like stumbling, but-Well, yeah.

Just working with NAD and understanding the mitochondria itself, all the functions. And NAD plays a key role, actually, in what he has invented. Which is DNA repair. But funny enough, you don't need DNA repair just for cancer. You need DNA repair every day, every second. Your DNA is constantly getting chipped away, the exhaust that you just inhaled outside. Or too much sun. That's just constant, like hitting the DNA. Right. Okay, put it this way. Nad is so precious to the cell that the cell membrane, doesn't let it slip out. Nad is used inside the cell. Okay. So That's why you cannot just put an AD outside the cell and expect it to go inside. The same membrane that doesn't let it out, doesn't let it in either. Right. So the body has a system to make an AD. How does it make an AD? It makes Nmn and NR are two molecules. And these are not the same as niacin. This is much further down. So these are the building blocks that your body also creates billions every day. And then there's a lot of conversions happening. So Nmn, NadH, et cetera. But the main one we need to talk about is how NR and Nmn, Nmn especially is grabbed by a receptor outside of the cell.

It just grabs it and then flips it inside. And once it's inside, then it turns an amount to Nad.

Explain why you can't just take NAD. Why doesn't it reach out and grab the Nad if you just take that?

It bumps it out. It pushes it right out. It's just like a basketball.

Boom. So it's rejecting it.

Yeah, but there's a but there. There is a theory. We haven't seen enough studies. When people take NAD, we don't know what happens because nobody studies that. We know that it doesn't go in. But the Dr. Salsman actually explained it. Dr. Salsman, our chief medical officer, explained that. When you flood your system with NAD, which we'll get into it. Yeah, please. He's like, it's very likely that some of that NAD actually turns into an NAM because the body needs to do something with it. It needs to discard it. A lot of it comes through, actually, your urine. I figured. But some of it, the body is smarter than you think. It's like, there's something wrong in here. Let me convert this into an NMN. That's how Dr. Sausman explained it. But it hasn't been really studied, so we don't know exactly what's going on. We know that NAD doesn't readily go inside the cell.

How important is the NAD within that in comparison to the mitochondria? Do they work together? Do they feed off of each other? Does NAD help provide the energy that the mitochondria does?

Just a quick Great question. We have the cell, and then you have a bunch of mitochondria inside the cell. Mitochondria is what makes the cell work. Right. Nad actually goes inside the mitochondria. It will be not healthy if it does not make enough NAD. That's where all the mitochondrial dysfunction is one of the major issues. It's like you have all kinds of problems will come out of it. But we don't even have to go to dysfunction. We just want our mitochondria to be happy, to be optimal. For that, it needs a lot NAD, energy.

Okay. Nad is a big key component in making sure that our mitochondria is healthy and functioning properly, which in turn is obviously going to give energy and make us feel good.

Absolutely. 70% of NAD is used purely for energy production in mitochondria.

I want to ask you, because every company that has a product like yours has what I call barrier to entry or obstacle to overcome. That can be in your marketing, your pricing, your competition, your ethics. But then there's misconception and misunderstanding. How difficult has that been for you with the company to overcome misunderstanding, misconception, and just bad information that gets put out there? How difficult is that for you?

We've been fortunate that we are recognized because we have an innovative formula that makes a big difference. We pay so much attention to quality. We've been fortunate that most of the top health experts and the press recognize us. But overall, I think there's a big challenge, not just for us, but in general. Just because NAD is popular, you see a lot of companies just slapping NAD on a label. I'll actually track back a little bit.

Yeah, please.

It was very interesting. Back in 2022, FDA released a letter, and it really confused Muddy the Water because they have already approved NMN as a dietary supplement, and And they released a letter saying, No, we made a mistake. There's a pharma company that has applied for the patent. Sure. So we're going to take NMN out of the consumer as a lighter supplements from the isoditer's supplements, from the consumer market because it's going to become a pharma product. But they didn't... I mean, that's what the letter said. Of course. And what that caused, interestingly, which surprisingly to consumers just benefits Amazon just to remove all NMN.

I remember.

But most of those brands there were actually... Nothing wrong with actually anything coming from China, but these were just made-up brands, no science behinds, and probably made in chemical facilities. And back then, we know it because Nmn was so expensive to produce, and they were cheap, and they were just having a bunch of fake reviews. So people were buying all these products. So one fortunate thing from this bad decision that FDA made is they got removed. So there's a silver lining in things. Always. But now, there's a lot more coming back. But that was a nice cleanup. Because consumers, I have our time finding sometimes some interesting supplements. Are they tested? Are they clean? The third-party testing is super important. Third-party meaning it needs to be third-party. You need to track it to where the third party is it an established lab? Is there a barcode that you can track? Is it real? It's a lot of work for every supplement to do that. The challenge now is, again, people are slapping an AD on things. What's the right dose? What's the right precursor? Like NR, NMN? Does anything else work? People now come up with a whole bunch of other things claiming that they increase an AD production.

Based on what?

Exactly. I had this discussion earlier today with a friend, the owner of Young Goose, and we were talking about how people don't understand costs when it comes into putting out a good product. Sometimes when you see a product that's inferior and cheap, it's because there was no testing done. There were so many corners cut. And a lot of times people don't appreciate nor understand the time, the effort, and the cost that it takes to go test every batch to get something truly third-party tested, because that's another one of those terms that gets thrown around. I don't think it's monitored enough. Actually, I don't think I know because I've seen it and I've been in the trenches long enough. One of the things I'm thankful for, but I'm still jaded on, is that I'm privy to that knowledge and that information on how things actually go. But that's why I am able and capable when I meet people to know who's full of it and who's not, and not that I'm special by any stretch, but I am very tactical and careful about who I'm willing to say, Yeah, I'll take that or I'll put that.

You do your homework. Yeah.

I know that about you.

Well, I'm not going to put people on my channels and stuff to promote for a couple of bucks to go harm people or feed them BS. I'm willing to wait and bide my time and money and all that stuff. It comes when it comes. But the importance is credibility and reliability.

You said something interesting. Money comes when it I was like, I just want to share something. I'm not sure if you want to even keep it or edit it. But when we were doing the formula, there was one ingredient, and nobody really knew about it, but our team was adamant about putting it in there. It's just like an ergo tiny for mushrooms, and it was $100,000 a kilo. Damn, it's just insanely expensive, right? You don't have to put much in it. We didn't even know how much we were supposed to put it in there, even Dr. Sussmann was not sure. So we ended up talking to the Nobel Prize nominee for his work on antioxidants in 1990s. Oxford University professor. He was in his '80s, so he was the one who was the expert on it. So we had to call him. We were like, Hey, how much are we supposed to put it in there? And he was so happy to talk to us. He's like, Oh, finally, somebody's finding me. He's like, All my work on everything else, it brought me to this, to this mushroom ingredient. And he was raising money for doing a clinical trial for Alzheimer's on this thing because no pharma company will get behind it.

They cannot patent it. No. But long story short, the reason I brought it up is because when we started, it was $100,000 a kilo, and we lost money. We put it in there because we believed in it. Right, of course. Then the price came down and down and down and down and down. It's a fraction of it right now. So now we can make a little bit money on it. But to your point, things change and you can make money. It comes in different ways. It goes in different It comes and it goes. It comes and it goes, yeah.

But as long as you're doing the right thing, it always ends up coming more.

It does.

I used to make it, and I'm not trying to go off topic here, but I think it's important to share the person that I I am, and you are. I used to make that just everything that I was about. When I stopped doing that, I got way more than I ever even needed or wanted because I didn't live for it or make it a priority.

I won't work with assholes. Yeah. Excuse my language. No, you're fine.

Speak freely. You know that.

It doesn't matter how important they are. They might have a million-dollar check. No, thank you. No. Life is too short.

No. Well, moving forward then, I have a couple of things that I took note on here for you that I wanted to discuss. When do you find, or even scientifically, when do people start to see the beginning stages of the decline in NAD? Because things just naturally decline, whether it's testosterone. I mean, that's what I do. When does it start to happen naturally? And what bad lifestyle things or other components of life could make it even worse?

So our understanding, the way the scientists have been looking at it is like, when does it decline? Or so when can we supplement it? When can we start looking into supplementing? So at the age of 30, for sure, it starts declining.

Prevent each for everything, isn't it?

Potentially 25, too. But how much? I mean, it's also people are different. But there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a decline. Some people say, well, have you measured your NAD levels? It's pretty certain that it's lower than what it was when you were 30 years old.

And that's men and women, right?

Men and women, yes. That's pretty much the science is out there. So the tricky question is, if you want to take a supplement, should you start in your 20s? Our approach is, we don't think so. We don't have enough data. We don't even have to look at it because there's so much more interesting data for people who are older than 30, 35, 40. And then you see, actually, the results. But I'm surprised. Some of these celebrities, they're not even 30, and they're taking massive amounts. I mean, hey, look, people are taking risks. I don't think it's a big risk. It's something supernatural. Maybe they're ahead of us. That's why I love biohackers. They don't wait for the science. They figure something out and they go after it. We are more conservative. We come from a bit more conservative pharmaceutical, study everything, look at the data, point of view. So if you're If you're younger than 30, it's questionable. It's up to you. But once you start passing the age of 30, then this is a consideration because they are declining. And what contributes to ask that question? What makes it decline faster? I I don't think anybody has done a clinical trial to see if you don't exercise, does the NAD levels go down?

But we know that if you exercise, it helps with the NAD levels. So you can assume that if you don't exercise, it's going to go down faster. That's what we I would say, one of the magic pill that works for everything is exercise. That's right.

And you know this, you're not taking care of the things that you need to take care of daily. I'm a big believer of mind-body balance. If you're not balanced in the best way that you can, I understand some people have conditions, but you can do everything under the sun, and it's not going to be nearly as effective as it's supposed to. People come to me all the time, How do I lose weight? How do I gain muscle? It's like, Well, First, we have to address all of this because I can put you on everything under the sun, and it's not going to matter. How does one know if it's working? Because you and I had this discussion where sometimes people say to you, Well, what is it doing? Is there a blood panel that show? Will they have a little bit more energy? Will their skin look better? How do people know that it's actually doing something?

That's a great question. It's a bit of a trick question, too. I'll start with the interesting news we get every day. Every day, we get that great customer feedback. Some of the feedback really blows our minds because we hear about something we never even thought about. Because I'll give you some examples. These are The important part is people usually feel an energy uptick. But if you're in your 40s, if you're working out, if you're really healthy, if you're in your optimal shape, you're not going to probably feel anything. It's hard to hard to really make you better. We even tested it on the fastest swimmer on Earth. So he won the 50-metre freestyle in Olympics in 2002 and 2016. So that makes him the fastest swimmer. But the guy is in such a good shape. For him to break the world record, who knows? His mindset, what have you woke up that day, that's what matters. So he took it and he didn't feel the difference. So again, I wanted to start with the positive, but I gave you the... That's not hard. It's hard to tell. But where did It makes a difference for somebody, the people who are in their 60s, 70s, they have a hard time going up two flights upstairs.

They can go three flights, four flights, and they send us these amazing stories. But those are I expect it. Not everybody feels everything, but then the really unique ones, and some of them are serious medical conditions. I want to be very careful. We're not making any claims, but they come and they tell us, I stopped taking my blood pressure medicine. Why did you do that? Because it helps with the blood pressure. There are very interesting other stories. People's eczema go away. Eczema, 30 or 40 or chronic eczema, they try all these cortisone creams, and they work for a while, they stop working. Then they're like, What? It's completely gone. Erradicated.

This is where my mind goes, is if somebody tells you, It's helping my eczema, or I don't have to take my blood pressure medication, that low NAD levels would be contributing to those problems. I mean, that would be the correlation I would make. If it's helping with those instances, I would assume that low NAD can obviously have a variety of things that it causes wrong with somebody.

Age-related decline. Yeah. That's one of the things. What is aging? Yeah. There's a lot of reasons that we are aging, but we know that an AD is one for both those reasons. That's why I call it the most significant discovery that we can use in longevity science right now is bringing back an AD levels. There are many other things that are going to come out, but this is practical that we can implement, we can apply. So just to connect a few things, I want to go back to the blood pressure thing is actually is clinically studied. So it has been showing. But of course, for that to be a prescription, it needs to go through the other phase. Oh, yeah. So let's frame it in that sense that it's been studied. It's looking promising. But do not stop taking your prescription. That's not what we are saying. But to answer your question better, there are so many potential benefits. The list is really long. Everybody is different. So somebody who's super healthy and optimal, they might feel maybe a little sharper, a little bit more focused. But then everybody else is going to have a different reaction to it because we're all different.

So the skin, yes, it has a major impact on skin. But in the case of eczema, we don't think it's the Nmn or NAD. It's the combination that we have. The mushroom ingredient I mentioned, ergothianine. Because on some of these, that's not on patients, on consumers, we told them, Okay, do you want to just experiment with us? Do you mind stopping it? See if it comes back. It comes back. Now, do you mind taking just one ingredient at a time to see what happens. I mean, these are not your clinical trials, obviously, but we are so curious that we want to get an idea. Sure enough, when they just took one ingredient, it did not fight it off. So it's a combination. So it's the The synergy between- The synergy works. Again, we don't know exactly how it works, but it works.

For me, when I think about anti-aging, because, man, I have really put some time into this, what are my keys to that? It would be boosting mitochondria, boosting NAD levels, and telomeres. Those are the three things that I look at when it comes to- You're going deep, but people are looking at, Is my hair getting wider?

The one surprising thing we got is people's hair, the color is turning back to the regular from gray and white. We didn't expect that. We don't know if it works on everyone. But there's a lot of people. If we go to our website, read the reviews, they're just really fun and interesting.

Yeah, but what are things that you start to notice when you age. Graying hair is one of them. Graying hair is one. Yeah, exactly. If we're prolonging life or aging, that's certainly something that it wouldn't shock me that it's doing at all. So yeah, that's what it is.

Reversing is really surprising. Yeah. That's That was really surprising. It's slowing down, sure. Yeah, I hope so. But how does that reverse?

Tell me this then, because we mentioned this earlier, and I think it would be good to give a breakdown. It's a two-part question, but it goes together. Why is it that you'll see these people, Oh, I just took NAD and I feel so great. It just made me feel amazing because I get that a lot when they take this big injection or whatever, and then Why then over time do they end up feeling bad after? Because a lot of people end up not feeling so great after that initial big bulk of NAD that goes into them. I've seen people tell me, I didn't feel so great after. I've seen some people continuously tell me they feel good and they think they need to keep taking it. I've seen both sides of the spectrum. Why is it then? Explain or however in-depth you want to go, big injection or IV or whatever, a big dose of it feel really good. I want to keep taking it forever.

Let's break it down. When you do NAD IV or injection, you're flooding your system with NAD. So there are a couple of things we need to, I think, look at. Number one, does the NAD get into the cell? That's the question. And there's literally, there's only one study that shows most of it comes out. But again, you're putting so much an AD. How much of it really gets in is the question. Assuming that a good chunk of it gets in, If we assume that, that is very different than the way your body produces an AD, because you produce an AD consistently every day. It goes up a little bit in the morning, comes down later in the day. But If we compare the NAD injection or IV to take in supplements, it's like taking 100 pills a day. You're just taking so much. You're just boosting it. If it goes in there, that's assuming that some of it goes in there. Some people actually have chest pain. Some people react to it. Some people have hard time going through it. Some people come out and say, I feel great. Who knows exactly what you're doing in your body?

You're maybe activating response systems. I mean, right now, I'm speculating, but you're doing something a little bit, not a little bit, very different than what your body is used to. I mean, we know that it's really safe. But again, even if you give too much water, you can kill somebody, right? Totally. We know it's safe, but again, everybody's different. If people are responding well to it, they like it, more power to them. Still a lot of work to go and put needles on, but more power to them. But if it doesn't feel good, you probably shouldn't do it.

What are some ideal doses for taking NMN so that you know you're getting the right amount? Because like you were saying, there's so many different supplements with so many different either bottle recommendations or the pills, or I'm just going to make up a number of 500 milligrams here, 200 milligrams here. On the surface, if I'm a consumer and I'm looking at that and I'm really confused because it's like, is that too little? Is that too much? I'm scared. I don't know. Then you've got 75 different websites telling you to take this and take that. Talk about the dosing a little bit for me.

I mean, let's just go to science on that one. Yeah, please. All the The clinical trials we looked at, they are all pointing to more or less the same dosage, which is somewhere around, let's say, 800 and 1100, 900, 1,000. There's a consistency there. But I want to address why do you see so many different numbers. Number one, it was so expensive to produce five, six years ago, and not many people knew about it. So the companies were putting a reasonable price tag on it. They didn't want to put $200 price tag in there. So we took the bullet. We were one of the first ones because it was a tough decision to price it at a level that people can access to it. So we took the hit, but we wanted to put the right dose in there. That was key, despite the fact that there was probably no other company who had that dose back then. Just trying to do the right thing. Now you see much more of the right dose because the lower doses from what we see doesn't really do much. You might not as well take Lower is not the right word.

If you don't use the optimal dose, because what is lower? Lower is all subjective. If you don't use the optimal dose, it really does not make a lot of sense. Then new clinical trials are now doubling the size, doubling willing to dose. So maybe in a few years, we're going to say, Oh, even our dose was too moderate, because they haven't seen any side effects. They have seen the good benefits. But we feel competent about like 900 to 1,000 milligram dose is the optimal dose. Is the the optimal dose, but not if you're 18 years old. I mean, because we don't know.

There's a lot of people I really respect, so I don't want to speak out of turn here, and I'm certainly not putting you on the spot any names or anything like that. But I see some people that I follow, I listen to that know a lot, and I see them promote NAD supplements constantly, and good companies, too, that make them. And once again, I'm not going to call out names. I don't think that that's proper.

Well, I have to tell you, one of the biggest names out there, he's at a very prominent university on the West Coast. I've heard him on another big podcast dismissing NNAD But then I realized he hasn't read the new clinical trials. He doesn't even know about it. I was really surprised myself. I mean, I would love... Well, let me just call his name. I mean, I would love him to speak to somebody like Dr. Andrew Sossmann. Have a discussion so that you guys can break down. Your opinion should be based on the latest clinical research. Peter Adia is his name. I was so surprised because it didn't look like he had the latest... You studied the latest papers.

I will say this. I used to do stuff like this, and this was my younger days. I'm fully open to admit that I always admit where I was wrong. I would take what one person said that I knew was really respected or whatnot and just take it as gospel and just repeat it without really looking into detail. I didn't do that with everything, but some things that I wasn't well-versed on. Now, instead of me jumping into when the NAD craze hit, I wasn't talking about it because I just didn't know enough about it. I could go take the word from somebody like you're talking and just put it out there and then look like a complete fool later by saying something that wasn't accurate or by somebody that had a bad motive. I see these companies that have 20 different products products, you have one because you believe in it and you specialize it. You brought up two precursors, white and men over the other.

But they're both great. Some people take sides like they're rooting for a football team. So we don't necessarily root one over the other one. They're both really good. We believe that NMN is a little bit more effective. But if you want to take NR, take NR, that's completely fine. We believe that the synergistic effects of the Other ingredients, not believe, but that's what the preclinical trials show us. That's what moves the needle, not necessarily just Nmn or NR.

Have you ever thought about adding NR to your product lineup, or is that you're just going to stick with NMN?

We We have. But there's so many more interesting areas that we are working on. We are doing studies. That is more like a commercial thing. We're looking at more A little bit more effective things that moves the needle.

Okay, so I got another question for you because we've been going all over the place.

All over the place.

But it's all good shit. It's all in. I enjoy it. Yeah. What's CD38? What is CD38 for everybody listening? Because I wanted to bring that up, and we have to talk about it. What is it, and why do people need to know about it, and how important is it?

Good question. Let me take it back to an analogy. Remember that we have this source of water that comes from the mountain that feeds the valley, the river, and that is arms. So CD38 is something in the body that's, think about like a bunch of, let's call it people, they go up to the source because there's not enough water coming down. They go towards the source and they redirect some of the water for their purpose. So they build like a little small little village in there and they are just stealing everybody somebody else's water. Maybe they're bendits, who knows where they came from, right? But they're diverting that super important source of NAD. I mean, they're good people. They just happen to get up there and find it. So CD38 is something, especially your guts, produces a lot. It could be inflammation sign. It could sign inflammation as well. So as you age, CD38, it starts There's more CD38 production, and the CD38, we don't want that much CD38, and it just consumes a lot of NAD. So it just sucks up like your NAD, and it doesn't need to. It doesn't need to. They don't need to live up there.

You need to bring them back up and share the resources.

So the more CD38 we have, the less NAD we have.

The more CD38 you have, the less NAD you have. Correct. And you don't want more CD38. It doesn't benefit body. You need to have a little bit of CD38, not much.

One of the reasons that we have that natural decline, we get older, our body produces more CD38, which in turn, lowers our NAD levels. Correct. Okay, there we go. That's the chain. All right. Okay. So theoretically, answer me, am I right or wrong here? When you take the NMN, it's going to help produce the more NAD. Will that lower the level of CD38? No. No. Okay. All right. So you're still fighting that fight.

You're fighting two fights. Okay. Your NAD production is coming down. And then CD38 is this enzyme, this inflammatory enzyme is taking a lot of NAD. So not only your NAD is coming down, your NAD consumption is going up. So a double-edge. You're getting hit from both ends.

So something like NMN is at least compensating for that loss.

Yeah, at least you're bringing your NAD levels up. But if you think about a sink or a tub, so there's a leak somewhere. So you're filling the tub with water, but there's a leak, and the leak is getting worse and worse. So you want to start closing that leak.

How then do you plug that leak? Just by doing this or is that- In our formula, we specifically have two ingredients that is specifically to bring down CDA. Tell me about those, please. Because that's obviously a key to this that people don't have in their supplement.

One of them is hydroxetirazole. Actually, it's olive extract. The main ingredient of that olive extract is hydroxetirazole. Very powerful antioxidant. But it also comes with some other polyphenols of olive oil. It's known to decrease CD38 production. The other one is resveratrol. That's probably people have heard of before.

Yeah, I take it.

You take it, okay. Take a high amount of it.

You take a high amount. Take a lot of it. Probably way more than most. It's not- Sheo Body for Kim, probably get it. Yeah, no, I do a gram of it. But most people, even the 500 could get expensive. But like I said, spend your money on your body. That's where I was going. What makes the WNDYField product special as opposed to another quality control, that type of thing. But you just really spoke on it, having those extra ingredients, because if you go buy most NMN supplements and you look at the back, it's going to spread it, list ingredients. It's going to say NMN, and that's it.

We're still doing it. We're doing preclinical trials. We look at lungs that are damaged lungs to see which of these ingredients are helping it. And then we compare to a very powerful steroids, lexamethazone. So when we do the combination, or actually, combination really helps bring in the inflammation levels down. I'll be frank with you, we know this, this synergy works, but the argothining, for instance, it's the one from the mushrooms. It does not work with CD38. As far as we know, it does not work with CD38. And that on its own, people should just take it as a supplement. That was the conversation we had with Dave Asprey. He's like, Oh, you have a good source? I'm like, Yeah. He said, Why don't you sell it? It's like, It's on its own. I'm like, That's not what we do. Right. Eat more mushrooms. I'm literally like good mushrooms. This is something that actually in mother's milk, babies have receptors for it. It's the only antioxidant that I know that actually stores in the body for up to 30 days where there's tissue damage. So it's an adoptive one. And as I explained earlier, they've done actually, they've finished the clinical trial on Alzheimer patients, and they benefited.

They were just doing much better. So a baby from one year old to somebody who's nine years old with Alzheimer's benefit from it. We have specific receptors for it. It's super unstable. If we didn't have the receptor, we wouldn't be able to take it. We have a very specific receptor, just like what the cell has a receptor for it. That is in there. It works one way or another, but we still haven't exactly figured out what the mechanism is. But I highly recommend people just to take that on his own anyways.

I love how when you explain something, how honest you are about it and everything you know, you know, and everything you're a little unsure about, but you think, you put it out there and you're just flat-ass honest with it.

We don't know why we don't know.

I appreciate that because it makes everything smooth and easy. I want to ask you this, and I know we've covered this throughout, but I think it's important to just, now that we've gone through the conversation, can you just give some of the biggest misconceptions of one that wants to take an NAD supplement?

Number one, do not buy an NAD supplement if it does not have the precursor in it. It has to be either NMN or NR. Everything else that people say they're precursors, they're not properly studied. I don't know if they do anything. They may help a little bit, but science is pretty clear. Nr and NMN are the precursors for NAD. Don't buy NAD. It does not work. Dose is critical. If you buy this with the intention, then get the right dose.

Right.

And another question is, you want to make sure that what they say is in the product is in there. So it tries to buy from trusted companies. The trusted companies, they do pay attention to make sure that it's safe and it has what it has in it. When it comes to the IVs and the injections, some people, they They like it. They have good feedback. But if you're not one of them, probably it's not for you. I would love to see more studies on this thing so we can speak more intelligently about what it does, how much of it goes in, what it activates. But I would rather take a capsule. It already does the job. We know it. I like that one more thing. Yeah, please. The expectation, why are you taking this? One of the key things is consistency. That's something people don't realize. They think they can take it a few days here and there, and they're going to see the benefits. Some of our customers, they come back a year later, a year and a half later, talking about these massive changes, these improvements. When I talk about the hair change in color, it doesn't happen overnight, or the skin getting better.

So consistency is key. And because your organs have been living with less NAD for so long, just bring in any of those back up. It doesn't make them automatically just work at their optimal level. They need time to really get back into their optimal level of how they were performing. And then the results might take much longer. This is like step by step. You are bringing back your NAD levels, your body is getting used to it, your energy levels, your organs. It's a long process. I think people miss that. Consistency is key.

Or is there any testing one can do?

Do you really want to know NAD in tissue? That's where it matters. That's very expensive to do because you have to take the tissue out. It's not really readily available. The blood test doesn't give you the result that you want to know.

Like you said, everybody wants instant result. Yeah, right. And explaining to somebody that this is a marathon, it's not a sprint, and that it takes time, it's hard because as a society, we just want shit now. We do. Everybody wants it now. Even for me, it's hard, even though I preach it, that I know sometimes I'm that way, too. But the understanding of how this works, which you were just talking about, is it takes time. So this is maybe a two-part question. One, when could someone expect to start to see transitional changes because like, okay, I'll relate this to HGH again. When somebody takes HGH, it's stages of where you're going to see something start to happen for you. Like earlier stages, you'll probably see sleep improvement, skin, hair, skin nails, but it takes time for you to start to see the fat loss benefits that everybody wants right now. A lot of times you hold water initially, and you got to wait. Then with the lean muscle building for HGH, once again, a misunderstanding and misconception. And how long that takes. So with this, I know it's a battle for you, and it's not just this.

It's damn near everything that takes time. When would one start to see this? And then for someone, how long can they safely take it? How long should they take it?

Yeah. Man, I should have pulled up the clinical paper or team published because they collected all the feedback and they categorized it. So the benefits are categorized. There's metabolic benefits, there's Skin benefits, hair, nails. I think with hair and nails, especially, most people start reporting after a month, two months. They start seeing some changes. The white hair thing is a different one. The energy depends It means their energy levels, how old they are. Some people start reporting within two weeks. Also, the energy levels, they go up in such a small amount every day, so they don't even realize that they have more energy sometimes because People forget how they were a month ago. People sleep better, but they don't think about it. But let me think about it. There's a couple of other things I wanted to mention. Again, there's so many benefits I keep forgetting about it, and it's not the same for everyone. As far as your blood work, you can look at your blood work. If you do constant blood work, hopefully you can see some of your biomarkers improving. That's a great way to track it. Another thing, people are really good at paying attention to tracking.

We highly recommend them to track actually before. We have a survey that you can fill out. Then there's a survey of 15 days, 45 days, 90 days. You can track it because your mind doesn't necessarily catch up with the changes.

People can probably go to your and see it, right? On Mounderfield?

Yes. We have a lot of nice articles there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of clinical papers are referenced, or writers really make it very easy to understand.

If I may, I would recommend reading, listening to anything Dr. Andrew Saltzman has done. I'll have him on my show, too. We had to get you first. But I will talk to him, too, and get a little sciencey and a little nerdy.

You can really geek out with him.

Yeah, it'll be fun. But he is a well-known and recognized plethora of information and trusted person for information that I would recommend going if you want more intricate, detailed science on NAD and an in-depth study. He works with you guys on things, and it's been a pleasure to talk to him.

He's loving it. He's been working in pharmaceuticals for so long. He's just loving it. It's like, Oh, we can see the results so quickly. He's the man. We'd really grabbed him from that pharmaceutical world and brought him into our world. We're still doing pharmaceuticals on the side, but not that pharmaceutical goal of maximizing profits. Just because some doctors, they only believe in prescription, we'll get you the prescription version of it.

I met you at the convention. Are you going to be at more conventions? What's your plans the rest of the year? Then how do people follow and get good information from you? Are you posting regularly and putting new stuff up?

When you invite us, it becomes much more exciting to talk about. They invited us, Dave Asprey and his team, invited us to the convention. That's how we ended up there. Yes. But we don't necessarily do a lot of conventions. The internet is easier to get the information out. But we have some wonderful partners It's like some doctors, like Dr. Mark Hyman is clinic. They love our product, they buy it, they give it to their patients. It's organically growing beautifully, but we need to get out and inform people. We need to get out and talk about it. We're trying to do that. I think in the next five years, we're going to see much more of this product becoming more popular, which is a good thing. People need this. Hopefully, it's going to be like vitamin D, which we have it in there because most people don't take it still. This is one of the easiest hacks, like vitamin D, creatine. But we need to get out there and inform the public. Thank you so much. And what you do, I think, resonates with a lot of people.

I appreciate it, man. I'm a best for everybody. Give me a quick, before we go, run me down every ingredient in there so people can take note.

Oh, sure. It's pretty straightforward. Nmn, the right dose, 900 milligrams is what we have. We have ergothinine from mushrooms, so all organic. We have resperatrol that is usually in grapes, hydroxetirazole, and the other polyphenols from really good olives and olive oil. Then last one is just because most people don't get it, not everybody that is in Phoenix like you. Vitamin D3.

Right. I learned the hard way on that one going out in the sun too much, man. My wife will tell you that right away. Not me down. I got plenty of vitamin D, I assure you. What's the best way to follow what you guys do? I mean, social media-wise, your website, things like that. We're going to catch you.

Our website, getwonderfield. Com, and our social media is also getwonderfield. Sorry, Instagram. We only do Instagram right now. That's the spot. That's the spot, yeah. That's the spot.

That's my favorite. Then, like I said, look for Dr. Saltzman. He's done several podcasts. He's got good information out there. He'll be on mine soon. Read trusted information. That's all I can say. Get the right info, and you'll learn. You'll do the right things. This is a great product. I stand by it. You've been taking as it. Yeah, being me, my wife, both. She uses it, I use it. We've been using it now since May? Yeah, I mentioned May. So man, time flies. Yeah, no, I wouldn't use it if it... I'm a mitochondriologist Andrea freak and the cellular freak and understanding the correlation even more today from you and the importance with cellular health that that has and longevity. I don't want to live long, but I want it to be good and quality. I mean, what good is it living to 90, 100, 120, whatever people think we can go to if you're screwed up for most of it, right? Way to help you live a better life. I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you coming out to see me, and I just want to make sure more people know about you, man.

Thank you so much. You got it right there. I really appreciate it.

Anytime, man. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps up another one. I hope you found this insightful, helpful, and beneficial, which I'm sure you have. So stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Jameli Baron DeLaver signing off.