Transcript of UFC Legend Dustin Poirier: I Lost My Mind. I’ll Never Let It Happen Again.

I've had bouts with depression throughout my career, but man, when it hits me, it's bad.

Which kind of brings us to the airport incident.

Yeah, I really messed up. Man, fuck you and fuck her and fuck her.

What happened?

So it's Father's Day, and I felt good in the morning. I spent the morning with my kids, but then as I was traveling to work, I felt that feeling again. It's like a cloud in my head that I just can't get out from under. So I started drinking. I'll fight you right now. No, I don't want to fight, bro. And my emotions got the best of me.

Relax, relax, relax, bro, relax.

Got arrested.

This guy's a UFC fucker.

Did I just ruin everything I was working for? You know, I don't know yet. And it could have been so much worse.

But what was going on in your mind?

I was angry at the world, and I just couldn't stop thinking about my father. You know, he's actually homeless right now. And I tried to help him out, and he's back out on the street. Not that anything's an excuse, but I wasn't myself. And I never really spoke about it until right now, but I'm back in therapy. And when you sit down with somebody and start opening things up, you realize this could be linked to my childhood.

And when I think about your earliest context, you got a father that's an alcoholic, violence in the home, and your mom said that you were an alcoholic kid.

I started drinking at 12, 13.

Expelled from school as well.

And got arrested and I didn't have any goals.

So it was a bit of a roller coaster. But look what happened. You rose.

Dustin Poirier! One of the best lightweights in the world. I was on top of the world.

But the roller coasters go down too. And this was the moment.

Yeah, man.

July 30th, you retired. How does it feel looking at that photo?

Yeah, I'm trying not to tear up, dude. It was my life, man. Those gloves, me putting them on the mat, is a piece of myself I left. But a wise man said, if a man's lucky, he gets to die twice. That part of me, that everyday wake up, push yourself to be the best fighter you can be, is dead. I'm retired Dustin. I'm businessman Dustin now. You know, it's just, I'm trying to figure it all out. Because the 20 years I was dreaming, about being the best. I just want to dream again, you know?

Has there ever been anything that compared?

No, nothing fills that void of what fighting was. And fighting was a part of therapy for me. And some days I wake up and I'm like, these top guys that are winning now on these upcoming cards, I can beat them still.

So is there any possibility that you ever return to the UFC? Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins. The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed. So when we have our best episodes on this show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know. And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button. But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make this show better. And I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to this on right now and hit that follow button. Thank you so Thank you so, so much. Dustin Poirier.

Yo.

You know, there's a question that we kind of throw around in society. We say it quite flippantly to people we meet, friends, family, strangers. But in this context, I want to ask it in the most sort of intentional way and give me the long answer. How are you doing?

As a whole, great. Recently, there's been some turbulence, you know, but I'm doing well. Doing well.

There's been some turbulence.

Yeah.

Give me some color on that. I—

last week, which is not new to me, like my emotions get the best of me, kind of was in a bad spot. Mentally, started drinking, got arrested, you know, got into some trouble at the airport in Atlanta. And, you know, not proud of it, but it is what it is.

I want to give some background context. And I spent the last couple of days sort of looking through your childhood and where you come from and who you are to try and fill the picture of Dustin Poirier in my head. And I've got lots of photos of you here as a young man. Got another one even younger here that I'll share with you here.

Yeah.

And I think this is incredibly important context because I'd watched you fight the best there is and beat the best that there is in the UFC. But it wasn't until I understood your earliest context that I started to like understand the picture of where you've come from. And also in some part, like how that makes you who you are today. Uh-huh. So, so take me back. What is the early context that people need to understand to really understand you as a man?

I'm just a man trying his best, trying to provide for my family, learning as I go. Not scared to work hard, not scared to chase dreams. Just a kid from Lafayette, Louisiana, who found something to put his all into and try to become great at it, you know, with fighting.

Your father and your grandfather were fighters?

My father boxed growing up when he was younger. My grandfather was in the Navy and worked in the oil field and stuff. They weren't successful fighters. I wouldn't say they were like— nobody knew who they were. But definitely, yeah, I come from fighters for sure.

And from money? Do you come from money?

No, definitely not.

What was that like growing up? Was there—

It was normal to me because I didn't know any different. It wasn't like I— missed a meal or anything like that, but definitely wasn't, wasn't rich or anything or had money to do a whole lot of things when I was younger. But a working-class family, you know.

And your parents divorced when you were younger?

Yeah. Yeah, I lived, I lived with them up until about maybe kindergarten or first, first grade, then they got divorced.

Do you have any sort of mental models or mental images of them being together when you were younger? Is there any memories of them being together?

Honestly, dude, not to to turn it dark or anything, but the early memories I have of them together aren't the best. It's fighting and violence and stuff.

Physical fighting?

Yeah. Yeah.

In that Instagram post you wrote recently after the incident in the airport, you mentioned your father. And you mentioned, I think, some of his struggles. He had his own struggles with alcohol.

Yeah, his whole life he has. Yeah, alcohol has ruined his life.

And alcohol was present when you were a young man.

Oh, yeah.

And you were still there. Yeah.

He's been an alcoholic my entire life.

Did you have a relationship with him after the divorce?

Yeah, of course. I don't know what that's called, split custody or something, where every other weekend I would go to his house, spend the weekend at his house.

How did that season of your life, do you think, as you look back, shape the man that you became? Like, that early context, under the age of 10 years old, that violent parents, they divorce, they separate, your dad is struggling with alcohol. Like, how do you look back on that?

As a grown man, I look back and think my father was an idiot for, you know, getting— not being there with his kids. You know, as a father, I think about that. Like, I don't— waking up with my kids in the house running up to me, making them breakfast every day. Like, I couldn't— I never want to live that type of life. I can't even imagine it. So as an adult and a father looking back on it, I think he's made a lot of mistakes that you know, I think he still lives with.

And your mum?

Uh-huh.

Got some nice photos of her as well. Um, that's your wife. Um, but she seems to have been, um, a real constant throughout your life. That's her there.

For sure, for sure. I'll be on vacation with her in a week. Yeah, look at my face.

Post-fight.

Her and my grandmother raised me. She was, you know, everything. Mothers are everything. And she still is, you know, calling me, texting me every day, checking on me, asking how I am.

And you got 2 brothers?

So, I have 2 brothers I grew up with, 2 brothers and a sister I met when I was 25, 26 years old, from my father.

Hmm. I guess I'm trying to figure out as well, 'cause I heard about what you were like in school. You struggled in school.

Yeah.

It sounds like you got in a lot of fights when you were younger. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to figure out where that came from in you.

Yeah, I mean, living in South Louisiana, we fought all the time, but I just kept doing it. I just kept going with fighting, you know.

As a young man, I read that you were expelled from school as well.

Uh-huh.

And was that again for fighting and struggling to—

Yeah, yeah, fighting. The one that got me expelled was a fight.

And that seems to be a little quite consistent pattern from 10 to 14. Struggling in school, fighting. And then at 15, I hear that you end up in juvenile detention center.

14.

14. Mm-hmm. What was the road there? What happened?

I had gotten into some trouble at one of the times I was living with my father. I got into a fight and physically hurt somebody in the fight and got arrested. And I was on probation at the time, and I wasn't going to school. Got picked up for truancy and some other things like that for not going to school. And failed the drug test. I was on probation at the time, failed the drug test, and then they sent me to juvenile detention.

Were you drinking at that age?

Yeah.

At 15?

Mm-hmm.

When did you start drinking?

I was talking to my wife the other day, and I was thinking about that. I don't know, 12, 13, probably.

Hmm. It is quite— It's quite curious to me that, you know, 14, 15, you're getting in trouble for fighting, you end up in a detention center, you're drinking from 12 years old. And it begs the question to me, as someone that's done lots of these interviews, like, what was going on in that young man's mind?

I don't have an answer what was going on. Not having anywhere to put my focus. I wasn't trying to be the best at something. I was just living day to day, doing whatever. I didn't have any goals. I was a young kid. It's tough to say, to look back to that young and really say what I was thinking at that age. I was just being a kid, I guess.

Were you a happy kid?

Yeah.

You were happy?

Yeah.

And you were spending the week with your mother and then the week— you said, was it the weekends with your father?

The weekend or every other weekend. I forget exactly how it was.

Yeah. And when you talk about his life being ruined by alcohol, what do you mean by that?

I mean, he has ruined his marriages, he's ruined his relationships, he's ruined his friendships. He's ruined his relationships with his family, with his kids. Two sons, three. Well, my little brother kind of is off and on talking to him, but he has two kids that don't speak to him at all and, and won't. Uh, you know, he's been in jail plenty of times for, for alcohol-related stuff. And yeah, I, if I could paint a picture of what you think of, of, of a classic drunk, uh, or alcoholic, you know, very selfish, And continues to go back to it. Continues to— he's actually homeless right now.

He's homeless right now?

Yeah. Part of that, me getting in trouble at the airport was I just felt— and it's not my weight to carry, you know? But I just felt I tried to help him out and he's back out on the street. It's like he almost doesn't want help, you know? And I was just kind of— on Father's Day, I was traveling to work. And I just couldn't stop thinking about my father. And I started drinking in the airport. And that's kind of what led to the incident.

It's just—

but when I feel like that, you know, I've been going to therapy and stuff like that. Years ago, I started going to therapy. And when I started feeling better, I stopped practicing everything I learned through therapy, you know?

Mm.

And then I felt that feeling again, just an— I guess you call it depression, just didn't feel well. And when I feel like that, I know I shouldn't drink, and I drank anyway. So, you know, not that my father or anything's an excuse. Obviously, I did what I did. But I knew better in the moment when I'm feeling like that to drink or do anything. You know, alcohol has never benefited me, especially in times like that where I'm mentally Not the best.

You used the word depression there to describe that feeling, to give it a word. So let's use that word. Can you paint a picture for me in terms of what that actually feels like? That day that you wake up, it's Father's Day, you don't feel good. Like, what is that?

No, I felt good in the morning. You know, I spent the morning with my kids. My daughter wrote me a letter. She gave me presents, you know, did all the Father's Day stuff. I had a great morning. But then when I left my home to go to fly out, I started feeling it, you know? And days leading up to that, it would come off and on, coming off and on. And I would think about, you know, my father and it would kind of bring me down, but it wasn't that bad. But for Father's Day, it just hit me, man. It hit me hard.

Because he's currently homeless.

Yeah.

Here in Louisiana?

Yeah. Yeah. I actually, man, when I got outta jail in Atlanta and flew back home, On that Tuesday, I got back late, maybe Tuesday. Wednesday morning, I drove to where he lives or where he sleeps and went to the sheriff's office, got in contact with the coroner. I had to do a whole process to sign an OPC, order of protective custody. I tried to get him to pick him up against his will and all this stuff. And they did, but I went at the wrong time, man. I went early in the morning when I woke up. And when they picked him up, he wasn't disoriented. He was normal, you know? And so they released him again.

What is the range of feelings and emotions you have towards him at the moment?

You know, he's always— It's tough. And I'm not angry at him.

I'm—

And once again, this isn't an excuse for my actions. You know, my father— It just came to a head on Father's Day. But, uh, just upset to see him doing this to himself and not getting out of his own way and continuing to let it get just worse and worse progressively over the years when he, when he knows better, you know, when he knows better. I mean, most people, when you make a mistake or do, you try to fix it. You try to make tomorrow better than yesterday, you know. Next year better than this year. Everybody just keeps doing the same thing. And that's because he's addicted to alcohol.

What is his story?

I wish I knew more so I could tell you, but been like a hard worker his whole life, you know, did whatever, worked in the oil field for a long time, but check to check his whole life. Simple guy, you know, was a really good athlete in school. Got a woman pregnant at a young age in high school, so he couldn't continue to focus and chase his dreams of playing football. You know, back then when you got a girl pregnant, you got married and got a job and things like that. So that's what he did.

So that day you wake up, you're feeling okay in the morning. It's Father's Day. You start thinking about your father. You get that feeling that you describe as depression.

Yeah.

Which is just how— what is that feeling? It's feeling— for someone that has never experienced it before.

You know, I've had bouts with depression throughout my career. When it hits me, you know, it hits me hard. And that day it hit me. It hit me hard, man. You know, going to the airport, it just feels like everything has its own gravity and it's going to pull me towards the negative no matter what it is. It's like a cloud in my head that I just can't get out from under it. It's hard to explain to you unless you've been through it. That's what I try to tell my wife, 'cause she's always so happy and so, you know, which is great. But like when I feel like that, and it doesn't happen often, but man, when it hits me, it's bad. You know, it's bad.

Do you remember the first time you felt that?

I don't, but my wife, you know, me and my wife been together a long time since we were in off and on through middle school and high school and all that. But she, she tells me, don't you—

yeah, there she is.

She tells me, don't you remember, like, I've always thought something, you know, you never wanted to be around big crowds, go to all the parties with me when I was younger and do all that stuff. Yeah, because I just didn't like to be around that many people that much, you know. I, maybe it was, uh, anxiety I was dealing with. I don't know, this stuff is all new to me. So I'm just— I would tell her how I feel and she's like, don't you remember? So she thinks I've been having it, but I started noticing it, you know, more recently in the last years, 3, 4 years.

Was there a catalyst at all? A catalyst moment, something that happened that caused you to feel that, or—

If I could link it to something, it was I lost a big fight, came back home.

With which fight?

My second fight with Justin Gaethje.

Yeah.

Lost that one, came back home, everything was good, and then it would just— I was really emotional, man. You know, some days I would be fine, some days I would be sad, and I was like, something's off, you know. Something's off. So that's when I started going to therapy and trying to unpack some of the stuff that I didn't even know I was walking around with, you know?

Did you learn anything through the process of therapy? I've been to therapy too. I've been— I mean, it's a good help.

Yeah, Stoke, the day I got back from Atlanta, I started going to therapy again.

After the Apple incident?

Yeah. Yeah. Right before I went to try to help my father, I went through a therapy session. So I had kind of— close the door on therapy when I started feeling good again, you know. But then I'm starting to realize, like, it's not something that you just fix. It's something you have to work on always. And, you know, so, and that's, that's what I'm trying to do, you know. Since for the last week, I've been waking up early, reading some stuff, writing, doing something hard in the morning, just trying to do everything that I was doing that made me feel better 3 years ago. And I'm trying my best, man.

Have you learned anything about yourself through the process of therapy? Yeah.

That maybe some of the childhood stuff I'm still carrying around. I don't think about it. You know, it's not like the first, you know, but—

It's unconscious, a lot of it.

Right, right, right. But deep down, I'm still carrying things, I think, from my childhood. And everybody, you know, I've learned a lot through therapy. Everybody deals with different emotions and process things differently.

And—

And I'm still going through it, you know, I'm back in therapy now.

I've been able to interview lots of people, and so I've interviewed like psychologists, lots of them, so many therapists I've interviewed. One of the things that I noticed, which was quite stark to me, was that young boys in particular that grow up without a stable father figure are much more likely to have anger issues, be depressed, struggle in life, but it's actually the data skews more towards young boys without that sort of stable father figure. But also then if you compound that with there being violence in the home from a young age, that's also another factor which exacerbates the situation worse. So those are sort of two of the things that stood out to me was the absence of your father. Also having a father or a parent that's dealing with addiction is another burden for so many reasons. So those three things are the things that from your story and from, you know, I thought, oh, that's those are, um, those are challenges that are understandable to stay with you as an adult.

Yeah, for sure. And then you don't even think about them at all throughout your whole life, and then you sit down with somebody and start opening things up and talking about things. You say, well, maybe I could be, you know, this could be linked to different things, and I could be carrying stuff that isn't mine to carry, and things like that. You know, as I'm growing up and being more mature and talking and speaking to people, with professionals and stuff, I'm starting to unpack some of that.

And was that difficult to do? Therapy? Yeah.

Yeah, man. Yeah.

You know. Difficult to even say, isn't it? Right.

And even at the beginning, when I first started doing interviews like Ariel Hawane and stuff, and I would bring it up, like, I'm working on myself, I'm going to therapy, it felt weak in the moment. Like, who am I? I'm going through therapy. I'm telling the world I'm going to therapy. But then I look at it in hindsight, I'm like, you know what? That's strength. You know, especially in a tough guy sport. You know, we're fighting in— bleeding and beating each other up, beating the best guys up in the world, you know, fighting the best guys in the world. And I need to go to therapy to unpack some stuff. It just, it's crazy. The human mind is, is incredible.

It's funny because we go to the gym, right? And we like work on our physical performance, but going to therapy, isn't we going to hide that?

And the gym was a part of therapy for me. Fighting was a part of therapy, you know, for me. And, and I always, always was scared of that, you know, what am I going to do to to sabotage myself when I retire from fighting because I don't have this outlet anymore. You know, I've done it for 20 years of fighting. I always had somewhere to go. You know, I always had to get better at the gym, to work on fighting, to focus on something. Every day I could get up and push myself to try to be better, to answer a new question, to do anything with fighting to get better. On multiple levels, whether it's the techniques or whether it's my physical fitness, anything, there was always something to work on. Always. And when I retired, I was kind of worried about that. Like, how will life look post-fighting? You know, I was scared of it. I was scared of it.

Because, I mean, you've been fighting since you were, what, 16, 17?

Yeah.

And you're 37 now. So it's just over 2 decades that fighting has been your kind of north star and your orientation.

It was always there for me. Always there for me. No matter what was going on, I could go to the gym and drown out any noise in my brain, any— Quiet that voice in your head. And I was scared to not have that anymore. And I still have it. I can still go to the gym every day if I want, but it's not the same. It doesn't feel the same.

It doesn't feel the same?

Not being on the mats, preparing to fight someone for your life and your family's well-being in front of the world. If I'm just training just to spin my wheels, it doesn't feel— I've done this My whole life training. Still fun. I have fun. You know, we do whatever, train, but it's not— it doesn't feel the same to me anymore.

Because there's not a goal, a big goal at the end of it to focus your being.

Exactly.

Hmm. When you look through the last 20 years, do you see fighting as a really productive distraction in some respects then?

For me, yeah. For me, 100%. Yeah, it was an outlet. It was something to focus on. It was something to try to be the best at. It was— it consumed me, man. It consumed me. Fighting was my entire life. And now post-fighting, it's like separating myself from the fighter. I'm trying to figure it out still. You know, a buddy of mine told me the other day, a wise man told him, "If you're lucky, you die twice. If a man's lucky, he gets to die twice." And that's kind of what I'm going through right now. Now that makes sense to me. You know, that part of me, that everyday wake up, push yourself to be the best fighter you can be is dead. You know, I'm retired Dustin now. I'm businessman Dustin now. I'm father— I was a father before when I was still fighting, but I have other things, other hats to wear, you know. It's just, I'm trying to figure it out. I'm trying to figure it all out.

And it's only been 11 months. A year.

Not even a year. Yeah.

July 30th, wasn't it, last year that you retired?

Here in this— in New Orleans.

Do they offer you any support with that retirement process?

As far as—

As far as giving you a roadmap for how to deal with the mental shift?

No.

There's no sort of post-fighting program?

No, there should be. For sure, there should be. But no.

Because it's quite a familiar story across sports.

Right. And that's what I was always— when I would see it happen, I knew, I was like, I'm never going to be that. You know, I'm never going to be the guy that goes and gets arrested or gets hooked on drugs or blows all of his money and just, you know, you see it over and over and not just in fighting, in professional sports, you know. It's like you've done something so long your whole life, so intense and so, you know, it takes all of you. When it's gone, it's like, what else can I do to the maximum? What else dopamine hit can I get? What can I just pour myself into and go crazy on something? You know, and then a lot of times it's bad things, dangerous things. You know, you see it time and time again. And I always said, I'll never be that guy. And I'm not, you know, I ran into some trouble the other week, but I'm still making a lot of right decisions. You know what I mean? I'm not that. It just sucks to be at this point to where I always saw those guys getting arrested and doing stuff.

And I was like, man, what an idiot. What an idiot. You know? But I wasn't going through it then. I didn't understand it at that time.

And alcohol has been a constant through your childhood, through your career?

For me drinking?

Yeah.

No, I mean, I—

when you were young?

Celebrate? When I was younger, probably every weekend, you know. But as I became an adult and focused on fighting, I went years without drinking.

Oh, okay.

And then even now, well, as I— when I retired, it slowly became more and more and more because I didn't not have— you know, when I was in training camp, I wasn't getting drunk and drinking like that. I had to wake up the next day and run miles and be at the gym and make a weight, and I was really focused. Um, but when I retired, I didn't have to anymore, so then it kind of started slipping back in. And even when I was fighting, you know, celebrations, gatherings, I would drink. I would drink, but it wasn't a weekly— it wasn't a weekly or daily thing. But I've always had a bad relationship with alcohol. Like, I've always— 90% of the times, if I do drink, I'm gonna drink to be the best at drinking. I'm gonna drink more than everybody, you know. And that's a danger. It can benefit you in other things, that drive and that craziness, you know, you can focus it on something and it'll benefit you or it can hurt you, you know? And that's the way I've always been. So as learning myself over the years, I know, you know, to be careful with alcohol and going through mental things.

Like, I know, especially when I'm feeling the way I felt that day, to not touch it. But I just told that voice to shut up and I just drank and did what I wanted to do, you know? But I know better. Um, as I got older, it's gotten better, you know, but until recently.

I sat here with, um, a lady called Dr. Anna Lembke. She's like a dopamine expert. Ah. And I actually didn't really know until she, she sat here and explained it to me that, um, alcohol gives you a big hit of dopamine.

Yeah.

Yeah. She also said to me that, um, sort of genetically person to person, we all have a different vice. So for example, she said that she got addicted to erotic novels. Now, another person would never get addicted to that. Some people's vice is alcohol, so they do what you described, which is they have one, and then it's just straight line up until—

Right.

Yeah. Other people, like, they can have one or two or three, and they kind of plateau, and they stop, and they go home.

And I envy them. You know, I have— my wife is like that. One of my good buddies is like that. They can have two drinks and be done. If I drink, we're drinking till the bottle's gone. You know, that's— no matter how many times in my life I've said, It's gonna be different this time. It's gonna be, you know, I'm only gonna have 2. It's never, never worked out. So coming back home, talking to my wife and stuff, I'm gonna cut alcohol completely outta my life. You know, I made that decision. I'm not gonna be like my father or make another mistake like I made in the airport. It's just, it's not helping me in any way. You know, it might be a quick release and a quick hit of dopamine, but it's not benefiting me in any way. So I got to cut it out, cut it out from my life.

It's not an easy thing to do.

With socializing and things like that, it's tougher to be the sober one. But in everyday life, it's not hard for me. You know, I've never been an alcoholic. I just have a bad relationship if I do drink. So cutting it out completely is, you know, not a big deal.

So take me to that day then. You wake up, you go to the airport, you're flying to Atlanta. You're going somewhere. Where are you going?

Atlanta. I'm going to To South Florida. It was actually a 3-leg trip. I was supposed to go to South Florida for a day, that afternoon fly out, go to LA, shoot a commercial for 3 days, from LA, Vegas, work for CBS for the weekend, and then fly home. So it was a 3— it was a—

Oh, big trip.

Yeah, 3-leg trip. We didn't even get the first leg. We didn't even get the first leg, man.

There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already subscribed. If it says subscribe, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much. What happened? What was the sequence of events?

On my flight from Lafayette, Louisiana, I drank 2 champagnes. Nothing crazy, you know, just— landed in Atlanta, had a little bit of a layover, went to a bar, restaurant bar, started drinking champagne. Some guys came in, took some shots. One thing led to another. Go to my gate, get into it with the desk agent. They called security, called the police.

Do you remember what you said to the desk agent?

No.

No. The police didn't tell you after? No. So you didn't even get on the plane?

No, I never got on the plane. I don't believe, I'm pretty sure. 90% sure I never got on the plane. And it might have been that. The desk agent might have saw I was intoxicated and it's like, "No, you can't get on this plane." And that might have what started it. I don't know. But I do wanna apologize to those desk agents, whoever they are, and the police for having to put up with me, man. They did it. I actually, uh, asked a lawyer in Atlanta who I've been working with, if he can please give me that officer's information, his address. I wanna, if I can write him a letter, if his cell phone, if I can call him just to tell him how great of a job he did, you know, dealing with a person in that condition and how professional he was. And, you know, he's incredible. It could have been so much worse. It could have been so much worse. I just want to thank him. I didn't get to do that.

So there's some kind of argument with the desk agents that you— I'm guessing you can't recall.

No.

And then they say you're not getting on the flight.

Yeah. And that leads to them calling the police, the security or police, and the video we see is of the Security guy coming in. The police officer, yeah.

You've watched the video, right?

No, so my wife watched it. A buddy of mine— I've kind of pieced it together at this point. I don't want to see it, man.

You don't want to see it?

I don't want to see it.

Okay.

I don't want to see it. Even when my wife started playing it and I heard it, she went and watched it in the other room. And then I have a buddy I work out with 5 days a week. He's kind of— between him and my wife, I've put the pieces together and pretty much know the extent of what happened.

Why don't you want to watch it?

I just don't want to see it, man.

Can you articulate why that is?

To see myself in that condition, disrespecting police officers, disrespecting workers at the airport, disrespecting myself, disrespect my family, I just don't feel like it's going to benefit me to see that. If anything, I think it's going to bring me down. It's going to— I'm going to keep thinking about it. Like I said, for the most part, understand what happened, know what happened. I don't need to see it again.

So in that video, you seem to get aggressive quite quickly, and you offered this gentleman a fight. He kind of backs off. He knows who you are clearly straight away. He backs off. What I find interesting also is he pulls out his taser. He says he might tase you, but as you walk away and you're arrested, you dap him up. And you, you congratulate him on the job he did?

Yeah, my buddy was telling me that. He was telling me like his— my buddy's wife thinks that's the best part of the video.

It's the best part because it's funny because you're known as—

yeah, so I didn't watch the video at all. Mm-hmm. And I— every day passing, I'd be able to piece a little bit more together and memories kind of, you know, flashes of what happened are kind of playing in my head. But, uh, I, I got home, deleted all my social— I posted that on Instagram, then I uninstalled all social media off my phone. So I haven't since Father's— or the day after Father's Day, I haven't been on anything. I haven't seen— I know they're making fun, I know they're talking about me. Obviously I've been in the light with being a professional athlete for a long time. I know how this goes. Um, so I just uninstalled all my stuff. So I haven't seen any of the clips, any of the videos, any of the anything, you know, besides what my wife and my buddy are telling me.

Your buddy that you trained with? Yeah, yeah. Well, it was, it was, uh, it was interesting because you, you seemed, as you walked away, you were quite polite.

Yeah, that's what I told him. I was like, maybe I realized what was going on, you know, maybe I had an aha moment, like, what the hell is, what am I doing, you know, in that drunken stupor. I don't know.

You said to him that he did a good job, right? Yeah, which was quite nice, right?

And I Looking back at it now, with what they're telling me and the way he handled it, he did a great job, you know? I need to thank him. 'Cause like I said, it could have been so much worse. What if it was a young hothead cop who wanted to be a superstar or wanted to, you know, it could have been horrible. You know, I could be sitting here facing serious charges. And just to put my wife and my children through that, you know, just— Yeah, it's not good.

You said you went to jail that day? Yeah. You got charged with being drunk and disorderly or intoxicated?

No, they charged me with public intoxication.

Okay, and they let you go the same day?

Yeah, I spent like a night, spent the night or the afternoon in jail until I sobered up.

And they released you on probation or something?

I'm not on— well, what's it called?

I don't know what the laws are here.

I haven't been to court and all that stuff yet, so they just know they on bond.

Okay, on bond. Okay. And that's when you go in, you know, after then go and you do the therapy session, you go and try and find your father.

Yeah.

All these trips are canceled, I'm guessing, at that point.

Yeah.

You have to go home and speak to your wife, right?

Right.

Can't be easy.

It wasn't fun for sure, you know, to let her down. And it's just been so long since I don't even know how to address it really when I got home. I haven't been in trouble, I haven't been arrested in so long, you know, decades and decades. I don't even know when's the last time I got arrested. This is the first time in a very long time. But to go back and my partner who's been with me through everything and has grown with me through everything, to go back and like see her face to face.

Yeah.

I just keep apologizing and it'll never happen again.

If I'm a fly on the wall during that conversation when you get home, what do I observe?

Me telling her it'll never happen again and her telling me it can't happen again, you know. Yeah, man. I'm telling her that I'm gonna focus on myself and be better from this. I know it sucks right now in the moment, but this decision, this arrest, this quit drinking for the rest of my life is gonna benefit me and my kids in the future. So things happen, you learn. And that's just what it is, you know?

You met her, Jolie, when you were 14 years old?

Younger.

Younger, really? Yeah.

14 is like a freshman in high school. We were dating in middle school.

And in many respects, she's really— she sacrificed quite a lot for your career. A lot, man.

A lot. She dropped out of college and moved with me to South Florida for me to chase my dreams.

'Cause she was going to nursing school, wasn't she? Yeah.

Yeah. And I honestly don't think I would have made it to the point I made it to in fighting if I didn't have an anchor like that at home, you know? Man, she'd been my best friend for a long time. Yeah, so to go home after getting arrested and speaking to her and like, not only did I let myself down, but I have a family, you know? I have kids. I let my family down, man. That's what hurts.

This is another beautiful photo.

Yeah.

The gang.

That's them. Yeah, man, I let them down, let myself down. But like I said, I'm gonna learn from this and continue pushing forward, and it will never happen again. Um, it's gonna affect the trajectory of my whole life, this one, this one arrest, you know. My, my son and my daughter is never gonna grow up and see me intoxicated. They're never gonna see me say things or do things I don't mean to do or mean to say, you know. So Like I said, it sucks, man. It's bad. But it's gonna benefit me and my family in the long run. So it was just something that had to happen, I guess.

So did she know what had happened before you got back from jail? Had she seen videos or—

No, no, no, no.

She hadn't? No, no.

The police officer called her.

Hmm.

When I was in a holding cell and stuff. So yeah, she knew what was going on. She didn't know in the moment. She probably knew a couple hours after, you know, once they booked me and all that.

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It's $365 for a yearly membership. Go to functionhealth.com/doac. And use the code DOAC25 for $25 off your membership. What's interesting is, um, you know, we've seen these kind of incidents happen before, but I've, I've never seen such a large amount of people understand. You would expect the reaction to be from the general public, from fighters, from people at large, to be, oh my God, this is a bad person. But I think because you've conducted yourself in a certain way throughout your career That wasn't the sentiment.

I'm not seeing what people are saying.

It wasn't the sentiment, I can tell you. It was crazy. I was saying it to my fiancée. I was saying, like, the reason why the sentiment has been, he's going through some things and this is a good man, is because, A, you've conducted yourself so well throughout your career. You've had good values in victory and in loss. But also, I think because you've actually spoken about some of these struggles publicly.

I've never bit my tongue. I've always been open, you know, about what I'm going through. When I was able to pinpoint and talk about what I was going through, when I didn't know, I couldn't speak on it. But as I got older and started doing therapy, I'm able to speak on it. And yeah, I am going through things at some, some days, you know.

Well, that's what I'd say to you is, you know, you've not looked at the internet, but the internet has been heavily supportive of you.

And you know, Matt, I think a lot of that probably is longtime fight fans and people who've been following my career a long time. You know, I grew up in fighting, so people got to watch me from a kid, you know, grow up. So they know my character for the most part. It was a bad day. It wasn't, you know, it's not a bad life I had. I messed up. I had a really bad day where I was angry at the world. And obviously alcohol doesn't help that. And I really messed up. But people have seen me year after year, and I mean well, and I really mean it, and I think they know it's authentic. And— but I am just a human being, and I make mistakes. So I think those fans, if people are sticking up for me, it's because they know, ah, it's Dustin. Like, I'm gonna— he's gonna shake back, or he's gonna, you know, turn this into a positive somehow. And that's my goal, you know. I don't want to let anybody else out there down. I'm trying my best, you know. I have to take care of myself first, and I'm doing that, the right steps, and That's just it.

I think the people who are standing up for me have watched me grow up, you know?

Well, dare I say, I think that was the majority of the sentiment, was that this is a good man who's struggling, and it was people sending sympathy because of that, but also because there's a couple of clips that went viral online of you speaking on both Theo Von's show and Joe Rogan's show. And so in the, in the, in the wake of, you know, this clip going viral of you in the airport, these other clips go viral with them, which is— oh, you haven't seen it? Okay.

I mean, obviously I did the, I did the interviews or whatever you're talking about, so I said it. So I'm sure if you showed it, I would remember, but I haven't seen what people are talking about.

Well, this clip went viral at the same time, and this is what gave it context.

Have to. Yeah, you just—

there's no—

if you get complacent, or if you— why? What I'm like, it's honestly, bro, I'm a danger to myself when I'm— have nothing, no, no goal circled on my calendar. I'm a danger to myself, man. Yeah, yeah. I beat myself up mentally. I'm home, I drink. I'm— it's just not good. I have to have some kind of battle. Yeah, yeah.

Hmm.

And I've always been like that, but like, as I'm getting older, I'm kind of recognizing— oh, you can see it more. Yeah. So I kind of set, set goals.

So that clip went viral, and there was a clip just like it —of you on Joe Rogan, which is you saying almost identically the same thing, which also went viral with it. So this gave everybody context. And so you see that and you go, okay, we understand. And I think we're now, you know, we're old enough, mature enough to understand that once a pro athlete leaves the high-octane, high-adrenaline sport like UFC, that your brain has changed. For sure. And not least because of the dopamine, but also, you know, there's other reasons why. There's— head injuries are— quite prevalent in the sport. So, there was a huge amount of sympathy. I just wanted you to know that, 'cause I know you've not seen it, but— But, I mean, I still feel horrible, but it—

You know, and not even using fighting or head trauma or my homeless father or any of that stuff as an excuse. I just want to say that, like, I did these things. I know better. I know right and wrong. I don't want to lean on these as a crutch of my actions.

You know what I mean? And the other— The other clip that went— just so you know, just so you know, because this is you and Joe Rogan talking about similar thing. I'm gonna show what I was talking about.

It's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad, you're going all in. It's dangerous. Yeah, the problem is like we see with Conor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in the other things. Yeah, yeah, right. Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know. That's why, like, retiring is scary, man. Days are long. I have a lot of time. It's— I don't have to get ready for a fight. I don't, you know, you're still a young man too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you. 37, man. Yeah. So it makes you think, like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do I do? What do you want to do, dude? I kind of got, like, for a week or so, I wouldn't say depressed, but I kind of got into, like, a funk. Like, what the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years How can I be a better fighter?

How can I— what's new in fitness? How can I push myself? I want to be the champion. And then boom, you lay the gloves down and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian.

And that's meant that you're, you know, some of your, your fellow, fellow peers like Jon Jones have come out and said some really nice things, and other fighters have come out and said some really nice things and sent their support and, you know, well wishes.

I appreciate it. I'm where I'm working on myself. I'm trying my best.

Were you aware that Jon Jones had done a post and stuff?

My buddy Kyle said the guy who I work out with every day I'm talking about, he told me that Jon Jones came out and said something and it was positive. He said Matt Brown as well, a former fighter, did a video. He said it was really nice and stuff. And I'm sure I'll see some of that stuff. I don't want to like relive the moment that much. I don't want to keep like diving back. But when I do get back on social media or do start watching videos and stuff again, I'm sure I'm going to see some of it, you know, and I appreciate everybody, but I just— It feels weird to— You know, I'm not looking for that, for sympathy or to make this okay. It's not okay. You know? It's not.

But I think the reason I'm sort of really keen to tell you is once upon a time, we didn't really understand mental health. And so people were thought to be crazy or whatever when they acted out of character. But I think the world has gotten to such a place now where we think about context a bit more. And this was really— it was really nice to see for me, having done a little bit of background research as well, to see that people's first reaction wasn't just to villainize somebody, it was to understand. People actually went, "Oh no, this is someone struggling with their mental health. It's not a bad person, it's a bad mental health situation." Which I've actually not really seen before, which was As I say, it was really nice. But I know what you're saying. You're saying you don't want to blame anything. Right.

I don't want to blame anything or have a crutch to lean on about my actions or about what happened. You know, I did it. I'm not blaming it on mental health or anything like that, even though I'm focusing on that now. You know, I did that. I decided to drink that day when I wasn't feeling well. It's all on me.

So is it kind of a bit of a roller coaster? In your world post-fighting in terms of your mental health? Is it ups and downs and ups and downs? Yeah, big time. And what is the—

some days I wake up and I feel like I made the right decision, you know. Uh, I need to be home, I need to be doing things around the house, I need to be here every day with my kids making them breakfast. And then some days I wake up and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? I can beat all these guys still. You know, I can still beat these guys, but I don't know if that ever leaves. I might be 60-year-old having coffee one day saying the same thing. I could beat these guys. I don't know if that's just a competitive spirit. I don't know if that's just fighting your whole life. I don't, I don't know. But I— these top guys that are winning now and, and fighting now on these upcoming cards, I can, I can beat them still. I know I can. And then I wake up the next day and I'm like, ah, good thing I don't have to fight these guys anymore. Then the next day, it's like, "Fuck, I can be the world champion." You know, it's just up and down every day.

And how does your mental health sort of correlate to those ups and those thoughts?

Even though I have those days where I want to fight and I think I made the right decision, my mental health has been pretty even, you know. Up until recently, I haven't been worried about myself or having to— go to my journal and sit in the morning and have coffee like I've been doing this last week, you know? But when I do start feeling 100% normal, okay again, I need to continue to do those things, you know? I can't stop because I feel good. It's a constant. Something's going on with my brain. Like, I have to practice these things every day. And now being removed from the incident, removed from my— 3 years ago when I felt really bad and I was in the dark place, I'm realizing that, like, it's not a eureka moment where you're fixed. You gotta— this is everyday work for the rest of your life, most likely. I'm pretty sure.

Was it just the last week, or was it— you said in recent times?

In recent times, that was like the boiling point on Father's Day. But there's been days, yeah, there's been days where I've not expressed to my wife how I'm feeling, and I was feeling down or—

The last 2 months?

Couple, few months. Yeah, there's good days, bad days, you know.

Where you haven't expressed to your wife how you're feeling?

Yeah, some days I will tell her, but some days I don't, you know, just continue to go along my day. And, you know, it's so— I don't want to be that guy to where I wake up and my wife's worried about how I'm feeling that day. Wait, you know, I don't want her worrying about me like that. I wonder who's waking up today. Is depressed, is upset Dustin waking up today, or is this my normal husband I'm waking up to? I don't want to worry her. So some days, you know, if I'm feeling really bad, which hasn't been that often lately, I'll tell her, you know, today I'm not feeling that well. I don't want my daughter coming in the bedroom, you know, "Why is Dad staying in bed all day?" You know, I don't want to tell her again that I'm not feeling good today. You know, she doesn't understand. She's about to be 10 years old. She can't comprehend what's going on. I can barely comprehend it, you know? So to keep them more on a steady day-to-day thing, if it's just slightly, I'm kind of feeling a little bit off today, I just suck it up and go about, you know, my business.

But there will be days where you stay in bed all day.

There has been, yeah.

And you try and sort of avoid the conversation with like your daughter. Yeah.

It's not often, but it happens. Yeah.

Do you find that if you don't talk about it, it kind of comes out in other ways? Because I—

Well, you bottle it up so long until it finds a way out, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Which kind of brings us to the airport incident, I guess.

Could be. To some degree. Right. But even the airport incident, those days leading up, even if I did have an off day, I didn't feel like it was that bad, that serious, that dangerous to myself or anybody else. You know, I really didn't feel like that.

It's an interesting thing I've often actually contended with when I'm having, like, bad moments. Do I tell my partner so I can really relate to the feeling? Because in part, I think as a man, sometimes you want to be— you have it within you that you need to be strong and steady. Especially with like my fiancée. I'm like, I have to be strong and steady. So if I'm having a bad day or whatever, I feel like I have to keep it to myself. But then it always finds a way out and it hurts her, like it'll hurt the relationship. So actually, I think with age I've gone, actually, to avoid all problems, be honest as fast as you can.

Right. Yeah. Honesty is always the best. It's always the best.

Is that kind of how you feel as well with it? Or is it similar?

I mean, for the most part, I am. Really open and honest. But like, if I'm just kind of feeling off and it's for me to— I know you don't understand what that means, or maybe you have something you can link it to when you feel kind of just like, today's not my day. If I'm feeling off, I'll let her know. I've been pretty honest. But like I said, if it's just slight, like I'm just not feeling right, I won't— if it's slight, I won't even bring it up. I gotta be a dad and continue to do things every day and stuff like that. But if I'm feeling really down to where I don't even want to leave the house at all and stuff, you know, I'll let my wife know.

On this point of purpose, when you were talking to Theo and Joe, you were saying that, you know, the purpose you had for 20 years has now gone. So in its place, you kind of need to find something else. You need to figure out what's in its place. How are you thinking about that today?

I retired at 36 years old. That's young. Like I said, the days are long. I have all day, every day to— I need to stay busy. And that's what I have been doing, you know, working with CBS, working with, uh, the podcast we have down in South Florida every Monday. I've just been trying to— saying yes to as much stuff as I can so I don't have time to sit back and think. And that could have been my demise as well. Maybe I was being too busy. Maybe I wasn't focusing on my mental health and myself as much. You know, it's easy to get lost in these whirlwinds of busy and be here, be there, you know. Life just moves so fast sometimes.

Do you have a plan for what you want to commit yourself to? You're 37 now, right? So, I mean, you got another 50 years ahead of you to climb other mountains, potentially. Right.

No, I don't have anything locked down, what I'm going to do exactly, what I'm going to focus everything on, but I need to find something, man.

Has there ever been anything that compared?

No, nothing ever will. Nothing. I have a void inside of me that nothing will— You know, being a father is very fulfilling, and I love it, and it's rewarding, and I actually enjoy it. But nothing fills that void of what fighting was in my life. You know, I haven't found anything yet. I don't think there is.

You don't think there is?

I just don't know what's gonna consume me and take— all of myself the way fighting did. You know, I woke up thinking about it, I went to sleep thinking about it. I— it was my life, man. I cared so much about it, man. I was in love with it.

You can still play a role in the industry though, no?

Yeah, and that's what I thought I was, you know, was a good avenue. That's what I was trying to do. That was my goal after fighting, is I want to stick around the sport, whether I'm on the desk broadcast or with the podcast, anything containing to the sport where I can talk about it, you know, be around the sport that's given me everything I have and taught me so many lessons in life. I just want to be around it, speaking about it, being on the mats, helping younger fighters, whatever, you know. And I was doing— and I was doing that when I retired, you know. I'm still doing it.

But it's not the same.

It's not the same.

No. How does it compare as a percentage? Is it 20% the way there, 50% the way there, or—

Probably closer to 20. It's not even 50. No.

Have you spoken to other fighters who have expressed the exact same sentiment that, like, fighting was the Mount Everest for me and I don't know what to do next?

Not really to that exact point, but other fighters have reached out and said, hey, you know, I'm all ears if you ever want to talk about it. I went through it as well, you know, laying the gloves down isn't as easy as you think. You know, people who I look up to, you have reached out to me, and, and, uh, I never took anybody up on it, you know. I never started speaking to other fighters about what they do to get past, and I should, you know. It's all— it's my, my doing, you know, because it's not—

it's not a new problem, is it? No, this is everyone, but lots of people have expressed Right.

And it's not just a new problem with fighting. It's a new problem, I think, with a lot of athletes, you know, who've done it for a long time and reached the pinnacle. And, you know, when it's over, you know, you have a lot of life left to live.

I've heard similar sentiments expressed from some of my friends that were in the military and then left the military 36, 37 years old. And it's like that was their Everest. That was also the camaraderie that they had being in camp and being on base and stuff like that and going away, being deployed. And then they come back and they're a civilian all of a sudden, right? Right. It's difficult.

Yeah, man, but that's life. Life's difficult, you know. It's just— you got to figure something else out, you know. I gotta figure— solve a new puzzle. It's just life keeps going.

You were going off to work when you were caught up in this airport incident. Yeah. How are you thinking about work prospects and stuff like that considering all that swirling around at the moment and all these things?

Worried about losing everything I've been working on. You know, that is a possibility as well, you know. Um, like post-fighting, when I retired, all the stuff that I've been doing, all the, the desk work, that's me focusing on getting better at all that stuff. I'm like, did I just ruin everything that I, that I was working for? You know, I don't know yet. It's still too, too early to really have those answers, I think.

Have you got, like, sponsors and stuff like that, or is it just your partners where you do guest work and podcasts and stuff like that? No, I have a bunch of sponsors. Yeah. And they've been understanding?

It's kind of murky right now. I think it's still too fresh. I know one big one isn't a sponsor anymore. Oh, you lost a sponsor? Oh yeah, I'm sure I lost a few. I'm waiting to see when the smoke clears who's still with me or not. That day cost me not only embarrassment and embarrassment to my family. It cost me a lot of money too, you know. I'm losing sponsors, I'm losing gigs and losing things that I had set up, you know.

You're losing gigs you had set up in the future as well?

Well, we'll see. Obviously the gigs, the 3 things I was supposed to do that week are gone. And then a big sponsor of mine is gone. Because of it.

And of the professional commitments you have coming up, what are those kinds of things that you have? I know you said in an interview that I watched that you'd reached out to— was it Paramount?

Oh, I work with Paramount, yeah.

You work with them, but you'd reached out to them to say, listen, I want to sharpen my skills as a commentator?

As a desk analyst. Desk analyst.

And so you'd reached out to them post-retirement because you wanted to get more and more into that. I just thought it was really cool that you proactively reached out to them and said, listen, I'm here.

Yeah, if you guys think that I would be a good fit anywhere on a broadcast or anything, I would love to talk about fighting and talk about this sport as it continues to grow with what I've learned through the two decades of doing it. You know, if I can be a voice in this area, please let me do it. And they did, you know, and I told them like, I'm coachable. I don't have no hard feelings. Like, if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know. I'm very, you know, because a lot of these other people who work the desk come from a media background or things like that. Of course, we have a lot of fighters, but, who work the desk, but a lot of these other people might not take criticism and coaching as well as somebody who's been coached their whole life. So I'm letting them know, like, if there's something I'm doing that is not the right etiquette, is not— if I can do something better, please let me know. Coach me. I'm not— it's no judgment. You're never going to rub me the wrong way. Please let me know. I want to be good at this.

That's what I was trying to let them know.

Well, it's cool. It's cool because a lot of people, they come in with a lot of ego, especially if they've been at the peak of their powers in one profession. Yeah. They kind of don't want to humble themselves enough to listen.

This is a whole new thing for me, you know, talking on TV and talking about fights and things like that. It's a whole new thing. So I wanted to learn as much as I can.

And you have a contract with them? Yeah, I did. We'll see. Oh, you're worried that it might not be? It could be. Yeah. I guess when something like this—

I had a year contract with Paramount CBS to work the desks for the fights.

Okay. Well, I hope they all stick with you.

We'll see. I think in a few weeks, I'm back on the podcast. So I know they're bringing me back to the Monday podcast. We talk about fights every Monday. In 2 weeks, I'll be back on that. And so we'll see if that continues, you know?

You know, the other thing is you are young. You're 37. I'm 33. And, uh, yeah, yeah, that's how I can, I can almost relate. It would be like if my career was, was wrapping up in a couple of years, like my main, you know, but I'm in the, I guess my career is business. So I can kind of do that forever. Well, for sure. But if I, if I had to, if I'd spent the last 20 years of my life, I've spent the last 15 years of my life building businesses. So if I wrapped up in a couple of years' time and I had to change profession and I couldn't do what I've done for the last 20 years anymore, Gosh, that's what athletes go through for sure. They climb the mountain and then aging happens and they get older like we all do, and then they have to say, right, brand new mountain. That doesn't happen to most people in most careers. You kind of just keep climbing up.

Yeah, true. I never thought about it comparing it to other, other, uh, careers.

Do you enjoy the, the desk work? I really do, man.

Yeah, that's why I'm scared to lose it too, because I really enjoy being connected to the sport. You know, this sport is, like I said, given me everything I have, me and my family. Everything we have is through fighting.

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You'll get exclusive Ketone IQ merch, and of course Cognitive benefits that might just change your life. If there's anything we need, it is connection, especially in the world we're living in today. And that is exactly why we created these conversation cards, because on this show, when I sit here with my guests and have those deep, intimate conversations, this remarkable thing happens time and time again. We feel deeply connected to each other. At the end of every episode, the guest I'm interviewing leaves a question for the next guest. And we've turned them into these conversation cards. And we've added these twist cards to make your conversations even more interesting. And there are so many more twists along the way with the conversation cards. This is the brand new edition, and for the first time ever, I've added to the pack this gold card, which is an exclusive question from me. But I'm only putting the gold cards in the first run of conversation cards, so get yours now before the limited edition gold cards are all gone. Head to the link in the description below. And this is obviously a bit of a personal question, but it gives useful context.

Is at 37 years old, you're thinking as a man, you know, I've got to provide for my family for the next 30, 40 years potentially. Are you, are you set up sufficiently? Because there's a lot of talk around fighters not getting paid that much in the UFC as well.

I mean, the career I've had, yeah, I don't have to work another day in my life. Really?

Yeah. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Well done. Because a lot of people also, they go out and they, you know, we hear the stories of buying a little too many watches or gambling or whatever it might be.

I need to stop gambling.

That's what I need to do.

I told my wife the other day, she was like, she's like, I just paid some bills. I saw you made another deposit to the gambling thing. I was like, I can't cold turkey everything. Give me one. Let's go one thing at a time. One thing. Gambling's a couple steps up on the list. I got some other things I need to stop doing first.

Well, if you can take care of yourself the rest of your life, then, you know, all good, right? To have fun still, right? Right. Yeah. So a lot of people, a lot of fighters, a lot of people generally can't say that when they leave.

But I've always, you know, I have a few businesses in Louisiana and elsewhere. I've always planted seeds my whole life. You know, I started investing when I was 23 years old. You know, before I was even making real, real money, I was investing what little I had. I always planted these seeds because I knew I couldn't fight forever. It was going to end any— I could have gotten in a car accident and never fight again. It could end any day with fighting. I knew that. So I've always planted seeds to try to have my future taken care of, always, since a young age. Smart. Actually, when I was like 18, 19, I told my wife, I'm not going to fight past 35 years old. And I almost hit that mark. I was too young to— at the time when I told her that, too young to see the, you know, full picture and know how my career was gonna play out. But 36, I hung it up. But I told her from a very young age, 35, I lived half my life and I have a whole nother life to live at 35. I can go to college, I can go, I can do, do, be whatever I want to be.

I have a whole nother life to live. So I kind of always angled at 35 to pivot.

And that was the moment. Yeah, man. That's the moment where you retired. Yeah. How does it feel looking at that photo?

Man, these are my brothers in this picture, man.

I can see the emotion in your faces.

Yeah, my mother's back there and this is my family, you know. All these guys are my family members. It was a special day. And I got to do it in Louisiana, you know, it meant a lot to me. It really meant a lot to me. Yeah. Yeah, man, I was just a kid chasing dreams and it just flew by so quick. And I guess that's a part of me that's scared for the future is I don't know You know, for 20 years I was dreaming about being the best. I just want to dream again, you know. I don't know what that dream will be. I just need that in my life, whatever that is.

Yeah.

Special day, man.

So many emotions in your face as you look at that photo.

Yeah, I'm trying not to tear up, dude. How come? Because it just makes me feel that way, you know? Because I still love it, but I know I need to walk away from it, you know, continue walking away from it. But I still love it. And like I told you, it's like a piece of me. Like those gloves, me putting them on the mat is a piece of myself I left, you know? I really truly believe that. You know, I was a kid when I started this, the fight life. You know, it taught me how to be a man. It taught me how to do business. It taught me a lot of things about myself. I didn't go to school. Fighting was my education, you know? Traveled the world and met people and sat at tables I would've never dreamed of, you know, sitting at through fighting. It was just an incredible journey. You know, uh, but if I can go back in time to when I was a kid, 16, 17, if I could do it again, I would do it again. Even knowing everything that— what could be, what damage I could take, I would do it again.

That's how fun the ride was. But nobody rides for free, you know. That's why I'm saying I would do it again. The damage, the ups, the downs, the unknown. Nobody rides for free. Whether you're working, clocking in at a job, working in an office for your whole life, you know, or you're fighting men all over the world, we're exchanging something, you know, for something. So I would do it again. I'm just glad I got to do it here in Louisiana, you know, where it all started. Yeah, that was special to me because UFC doesn't come here often to Louisiana. The time they came before my retirement was back in 2015, and I fought on that, on that one as well. To get them to come back here just for my retirement was a big deal. And I'm proud of that. I'm proud of bringing it back to the city, you know? Mm-hmm. I have a game room at my house, and I have this— the UFC actually sent me a retirement picture, big picture frame with my wife, my daughter. Their name was on the canvas for this fight, and I didn't even know. The UFC printed their names on the canvas of the octagon.

Oh, really? So they cut them out of the thing, and they have them— framed in a nice shadow box with pictures from the fight and their names and stuff. That was, that was really nice, man. So I had this picture hanging on my wall in my game room in my house. I got— actually, I need to call Mike, this guy here, and this Mike Brown. I need to call him back. He tried to call me and he's been texting me the last few days. I need to call him back, let him know I'm good, you know. Mm-hmm. I've been Silence on every call, you know, not just not wanting to talk to people since Father's Day, but I need to start, I need to reach back out.

There's a lot in your head, isn't there? That photo seems to have teleported you back in a—

I'm just thinking, thinking about that night, thinking about the guys in the picture, seeing my mom in the background, you know, my friends, it was just Incredible night. And it hurts me a little bit, like, to be sitting here talking about getting arrested last week. Like, it feels like such a fall from grace, you know, looking at this picture. Like, I was on top of the world in this moment. I felt like I did it all the right way, you know? Even had the UFC, uh, play Sinatra, "I Did It My Way," when I was walking out the octagon that night. And, uh, you know, just— it's life.

That's life. That's life. It's life. It's part of the, um, part of the hero's journey is the, the ups, the downs, the redemptions, the— all of it. And everything you teach, you know, it's funny because when I think about your earliest context, it was, in my objective— subjective view, difficult. It was a real challenge. You got a father that's an alcoholic, the violence in the home, growing up in a, you know, in a working-class area, and you rose from there. And look what happened. Yeah, it was beautiful. And then look at—

I'm proud of it.

And then the roller coasters go down too, and that's why they're so good when they go the opposite way and such. And so this is just— and for me, this is maybe just the platform of your next era, you know.

For sure, whatever that is, I'm here for it. But man, I'm just learning and living, you know, and trying my best just like everyone else.

It's incredible though what you've proven that you can do, you know, from—

I honestly, no BS, look you in the eyes, like, I feel like anything I set my mind to, I can accomplish.

I can make it happen. Look, you've done that. Yeah, you don't need to look me in the eyes and no BS me. You've done something that, you know, very few men could ever, ever accomplish, especially considering where you came from. So I think I am quite excited to see what you set your mind to next, because if that's what you're able to accomplish by 35 years old or something, God only knows what you could do with the next two decades of your life if you aimed all that energy at an equally terrifying goal. I would love to.

That's what I need, something terrifying. I need something like that, something that I can't stop thinking about. Mm-hmm. You know?

And you've got the mentality that few have, right? Like, to accomplish this, you've got something— the core components to be wildly successful, as you say, with whatever you put your mind to, so—

I'm not scared to work for it.

You know? At this moment, in this photo, were your family encouraging you to— hang up the gloves?

My wife was. Nobody else in my family, no. How come? She was pregnant. She was a couple months away from giving— a few months away from giving birth to my son. I had been doing it for a long time. We just kind of both knew it was about the time, you know?

You said you were scared because of the void of purpose that would be in your life thereafter. But I've also heard you say you're scared of like the brain injuries that fighters often get in the wake of any sort of contact sport. I had the great privilege of interviewing arguably the world's leader on CTE. And for people that don't know, CTE is a progressive brain disease caused by repeated head trauma, leading to abnormal protein buildup, which leads to brain decline. Older adults with a history of traumatic brain injuries have a 230% greater risk of developing Alzheimer's than those without. Um, 61% of UFC fighters stated they worry about potential long-term brain damage, with, with a good percentage, about 21%, noticing differences in their brain function after their fighting career. And lastly, a 2023 study found that more than 40% of brains from contact sport players who died before the age of 30 had CTE. I, I think I heard you say that you were concerned about brain damage or brain trauma from fighting?

Yeah, part of me laying the gloves down, like I said, for my wife wanting me to, was because she was kind of worried about my behavior a few years back. And I went to a neurologist and did a scan with contrast, where they put the dye in your brain and your veins and do all that stuff. And I have— I had some, you know, changes in my brain, but we don't have a passport of Before or throughout the process, you know, we just have a snapshot of right now of my brain. But yeah, the doctor, the neurologist told me that, you know, it has to be posthumous. You can't— you put a chemical in the brain, it releases a protein, you know, if you— so we won't know until I pass away and they study my brain if I, if I have it or not. But the doctor was telling me, like, you know, looking at the things you have going on, like I can't say you have it, but your wife was noticing different behavior. Yeah, just like emotional.

And it's not a conversation people have a lot about CTU. I actually, I only learned about it about a year ago when I interviewed this person, and I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I couldn't believe that athletes that are doing contact sports, kids that are doing American football, are, um, and not only fighting.

I play football all my youth, you know, as well. So I'm sure my head's been rattled a good bit.

I have a brain scan here, which is really for the listeners at home to show them what advanced CTE looks like on the brain. But it is these kind of like plaques that kind of build up in the brain from contact head injuries. And what the symptoms of that are often mental health disorders. They are, and there's a spectrum of addictions also sort of associated with CTE. People sometimes see boxers, for example, slurring their words and such. And That's also within the same family and category of CTE. Yeah. But as you say, it's not something you know when you're alive and they have to posthumously look at your brain and check if you have it. And what did the neurologist say, that it was a little bit abnormal?

I have scarring and stuff. I'd have to pull out my phone and find the exact terminology for the parts of the brain. I don't know. I have a thinning in the back of my brain. At whatever part. And I have a— you have a septum in your brain like your nose. Yeah. And my septum is splitting, separated a good bit. And the neurologist thinks my left and right side aren't communicating as smoothly as they should because of the separation.

And they suspect that that's to do with head trauma. I mean, we don't know.

Do you feel different?

I know it's a strange question to ask, but have you noticed any difference in in yourself other than, you know, the differences one would experience when they left a job that was that significant?

No, besides like ups and downs with mood and stuff like that. That's one of the things I kind of notice. And being honest, like spontaneous decisions, I notice like if I'm like, fuck it, I'll just put $5,000 on this bet right now. Like just I wouldn't normally do that, I feel like, but maybe it's just who I am now. I don't know. Or saying, "Fuck it, I'm gonna get drunk as I can right now in the airport." Just, you know, I feel like that is like spontaneous decision-making that I wouldn't normally do, I think. But maybe I would. I don't know. If we're talking about brain trauma and like decisions I made or ways I feel, I'm sure I can draw links to all kinds of stuff. You know, I don't even know if it— would make sense or would be correct. You know, when you're scrambling for answers, it's easy to, like, draw lines and say, well, this is because of that, this is because of that. You know, I feel normal. Besides ups and down days and stuff like that, I feel normal.

So is there any possibility that you ever return to the UFC? If you had to plot it as a percentage? 5%. And since you've retired, has that percentage gone up or down, do you think? Progressively?

Down, I think. Down, okay. Down, I think. Because I would have to reinstate— first of all, I'd have to get my wife on board that I'm gonna do another training camp and do this again. But I'd have to reinstate myself in the drug testing protocol, and I think I'd have to do like 6 months of clean drug testing before I'm eligible to compete again. So that would be another 6 months. You know, it's just a lot of hoops to jump through.

And your father? Difficult, difficult, extremely difficult. Layers of emotion. It's funny, you know, we've all got people in our life— well, a lot of people have people in their lives where they've watched them struggle with addiction, they've tried to help them, they can't make sense of why they won't accept the help, why they won't change. They know they're doing— like, I've heard it's such a familiar story. Yeah, man. What's the latest with him?

He was— latest with him is 2 days ago, he was sleeping in his truck behind a business.

And how'd you find this out? Oh, you have a— Dude.

When I got a— this is Father's Day week. This is a— my sister sent me this. Somebody Who she knows, he was parked, my dad was parked at the park. Somebody snapped a picture of him getting out of his car.

He's got his top off. Oh gosh.

No shoes. No shoes. My sister actually gave him that truck that he's living in. God. And we're still working. We're still working to get something, get him to do something or admit himself, just to help himself, you know. Sorry. I'm so sorry. I mean, that's life. But to see your father like that, you know, it's just like—

Damn, man. Is it alcohol? Yeah. It's alcohol? Yeah. Does he do other types of drugs? Nope.

Never smoked a cigarette in his life. Never smoked marijuana. Doesn't take pills. Like, just alcohol. Hmm. We're trying. Me and my sister are trying to— his other kids don't want anything to do with him, but me and my sister are trying to get him right. And my wife's super on board, like, trying everything too to— but if he doesn't want to help himself, we can only do so much, you know. But like I said at the beginning, that's not my weight to carry, you know. I'm trying my best. I'm a father now too. I gotta look out for me and mine. I can't babysit my father, you know.

It's, um, it can often drag people down themselves if they try and save someone from themselves. Yeah, dude, I almost lost my mind on Father's Day.

I'm the guy you're talking about.

Yeah, I know it because I've got a sort of personal story in this regard where I had to sit with one of my close relatives, and I could see that they were destroying themselves trying to save someone else. And they are the only person in this family that I'm talking about that have made that decision to try and save this person. And they are paying the price. They are sick. They are upset all the time. They've got constant despair. Whereas all the other siblings in that family have thought, "Fuck it." And it would appear that they're living more peaceful lives because they've said, "Fuck it." But because of this person's heart, they are unable to just cut it off and let this person go.

Yeah.

Is there part of you that's worried that someday you're going to get a call and it's going to say—

I've been waiting for months, every day. I've been waiting. I know, me and my wife talk about this all the time. Like every time I get a call about my dad from my sister or something, I'm like just waiting for the, you know, waiting for the news. He's not in good health and he's 74, 75 years old. Like, no telling if he's eating and I don't know. You know, every call I was like, this is the one.

What did your mom think about this? About your father?

I mean, as of most recently, she didn't know. She didn't even know that he was homeless. I told her recently after all this stuff happened, you know, I explained to her that he's— she's just sorry that I have to deal with this.

And, you know, she got remarried and then— yeah. Yeah. So what's next?

Vacation with my family.

Where you off to?

Right here in Florida, 30A. Going on vacation with my family, sit in the sun with my kids and family, just have a good time, man. Stay off the internet. Continue to work on myself. Have good mornings. That's it.

Well, you know, I know you're not looking at the internet, but I just wanted to let you know that the internet's been really kind.

There's a lot of really, really kind of people. I don't hear that too often, so thank you.

You don't hear that too often.

Good to hear.

And that's actually why I wanted to do this interview as well, is in part I just wanted to tell you that, but also I just wanted, uh, I hoped we could be a bit of a platform for people understanding the, like, complicated nature of mental health and purpose and addiction and alcohol and all these things that through doing this show I've been able to sort of piece together myself. I've probably interviewed 700 people now. You don't find many new things. Right. It's one of the most crazy things I've learned from doing this show is like, oh fuck, we're all the same. We all struggle with the same things at the most fundamental level, you know, so— For sure. You know, and we're all excited to see what it is you put your great talent and your mentality and your obsession to in the next season of your career. Because whatever it is, you know—

Thank you, man.

It's going to be incredible.

Yeah, I just got to find it and continue doing it and continue working on myself.

And please be patient with yourself.

Yeah, man, patience is a virtue I wasn't blessed with, I don't think. But I'm working on it. I'm working on it every day. Every single day, man.

We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question to the next, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is, dear next guest, what are you doing to improve the world?

Trying to leave it better than I found it. Better than leave it a better place than I came into with everything I can, you know. Oh, for the most part, making the right decisions and showing that people do care, trying to be a good, you know, a person who cares about people and stuff like that. That's what hurts me too, man, is me doing that. I wasn't I wasn't myself, you know. I know it's easy for me to say and try to hide behind like a drunkenness or mental breakdown and all. I feel like all those are excuses. Like, that's— people who know me know that's, that's not how I roll, man. I just feel bad about it because that's my— my intentions are always 99.9% of the time good, you know. And to hear about the video and everything I did. And, you know, I just hurt myself, man, really let myself down. Hard to look in the mirror at times. But I'm gonna continue doing what I was doing before this happened, you know, leave the world a better place than I found it, man, and teach my kids to do the same.

And in 2018, you did start The Good Fight Foundation. Yeah. You and your wife, after clearing out your old fight gear and auctioning it off to support Lafayette families, you started this foundation and you've actively been involved in the charity. I went on the website and saw you driving delivery trucks and packing school supplies in the kitchen. But also, I saw the work that you'd done in Uganda, providing kids in Uganda with multiple new water wells as well. And you were, at 30 years old, awarded the first ever Forrest Griffin Community award, the award presented annually by the UFC to recognize an athlete's exceptional volunteering and charity work. And you didn't have to do that, you know, especially at such a young age, at sort of 28 years old when you— when this all began. And if people do want to go and check out the foundation, I'm going to link it below. It's called the Good Fight Foundation, and I looked at the mission statement on the website, etc., and it's exactly what this question asks. It's how can you do good for other people in the world that need it. Right.

And I truly, honestly, 100% believe I'm doing it, you know? I think so. I'm using the platform I built through hard work to benefit as many people as I can. You know, fighting was gonna benefit me and my family every time I walked to the ring. So why couldn't I— my mindset was, why couldn't I stack more on my back and go in with a cause and sell everything I wore that night and benefit a family or benefit a person or another organization? I was like, let me stack up as much on my back as I can and keep this momentum going. With the foundation. But when we first started it, it wasn't— I didn't auction off everything I wore to the Octagon, and we didn't link it to goals. It was just kind of random. We were packing up my house, moving from South Florida back to Louisiana, and we had all this stuff. And we just saw a news article that a police officer got killed a couple streets where me and my wife went to school, a couple streets away from where we went to school. And he left behind a wife and kids, Officer Middlebrook, here in Lafayette, Louisiana.

And we're like, well, "We're packing up the house. What about all these gloves and fight shorts that you fought in on these big fights? Can we sell it? Maybe we can sell it and donate to his family." And that's what sparked the whole foundation starting. We did it for maybe a year, a year and a half, 2 years just out of my name before we made it an actual nonprofit. We were just eBaying fight-worn stuff and donating it to the food pantry or donating it to this fallen officer's family. And then it turned into, "Let's keep this going and see if other fighters," would get behind this and give it a name. So it's not Dustin Poirier does this, it's the Good Fight Foundation. So more people maybe get behind it. And it just kind of organically happened. That's something I'm very proud of. I mean, in, in a couple weeks we have the backpack back-to-school drive. We do, we do probably 1,300 backpacks filled with every school supply on the school supply list for Louisiana. Wow.

Yeah, it's, it's incredible.

It takes, it takes everybody to make these goals happen, man. Not just the monetary side, but the going in this warehouse and packing every single backpack because we stretch the dollar with this foundation. You know, we don't have any paid, any— everything is— and we try to keep it as minimal as, as possible to keep everything affordable. So we buy bulk backpacks, break all the pallets down to backpacks, bulk flashcards, everything that goes in the backpack for the school year, we buy bulk and have to pack every backpack ourselves. Wow. And, uh, it's something that really I enjoy doing, and I'm happy I have a platform to, to do it and raise awareness. And, you know, no kid should go to school without a— that's just one of the things we, we've done annually, but no kids should go to the school without the proper school supplies they need, you know. It's crazy. So just small stuff like that, you know, we're just trying to make a difference.

Well, if anyone wants to donate, you can go to the Good Fight Foundation. Um, I'll link it below, and, uh, They're doing incredible work, so it's a wonderful thing, wonderful cause. And as you say, you run it in a very lean way so that you can optimize for doing more and more good. Dustin, thank you so much. Thank you, man. Thank you so much for being such a class act, and thank you for agreeing to have me interview you today. It's a real honor. You're a legend in my eyes for so many reasons, not just because of the man that you are, but because you climbed impossible mountains, and also the way that you conduct yourself after fighting, which is a real— it's really like inspiring to me. The values, the integrity, the orientation towards family, towards doing good, and actually to being openly human.

Definitely, definitely am that. You know? It's my first time living life, man.

The good, the bad, and the human. And you're willing to be so honest and open about that. And it's, um, there's lots and lots and lots. I know this sounds like a crazy thing to say, but that airport incident is going to help a lot of people in a lot of ways that I don't think you'll ever get to see indirectly because of, um, what I think is going to come from it.

Thank you, man. So I hope you're— hope you're right. And I'm an open book. I'll talk about it and talk about my struggles, and I hope it does help somebody. Thank you. Thank you.