Transcript of Most Replayed Moment: Matthew McConaughey - The Comfort Crisis Is Destroying Your Potential! New

Do you remember these?

Yes.

You wrote this roughly around the same time in '92, roughly actually when I was born, funnily enough. I saw the date on the top and thought, oh, it's a few days off after my birthday. Yeah. And again, you put fatherhood number one, but there's a series of other things on this list of your 10 goals in life, which you wrote in 1992. As you reflect on those goals, do you wish you hadn't written any of them? And Is there anything else you wish you had written?

No, that, that, that— I wouldn't change a thing about it.

10 goals in life: become a father, find and keep a woman for me, keep my relationship with God, chase my best self, be an egotistical utilitarian, take more risks, stay close to mum and family, win an Oscar for Best Actor, look back and enjoy the view, just keep living.

I don't know what I'd add to that.

One of the things that you talk— you've talked a few times about is this idea of like you needing resistance. Yeah, you've said it 2 or 3 times. And we're going back to what it is to be a man and what it is to be a well-orientated, stable man. Needing resistance, is that a goal to aim for? Is that—

I think it's just a necessary necessity for Having more than just an individual life at the top of the high-rise with money. If you're successful, do that. I mean, I'm supposing that whether it's different words, your friend went to Christianity for a very similar reason.

Yeah.

It's like a certain amount of guilt is very healthy. It helps us keeps us— it's boundaries.

Boundaries.

Without any shame, without any embarrassment, without any guilt. Tell me it's all just 4-dimensional. Where's the form? Where's the art? It's 4-dimensional. It has no form. You got to have gravity to have form. You got to have some resistance to have some form. You got to push off of something to go somewhere. You got to be— It's very hard when you're just floating and no gravity and no resistance to actually pursue a North Star. You have no leverage.

Mm-hmm.

You're floating. Where's the art? Probably more anarchy than art. So resistance gives form. Heard great artists say this, limitations Reveal style.

Hmm. Resistance.

Something to go, or else. It's like in Greenlights. If life's just nothing but green lights, if you got no yellows and reds, no reasons to pause or crises that stop you, resistance? What are you just going to go in circles? Till you run out of gas and get dizzy? I don't see that. How do we evolve or devolve without resistance? Now, picking the right resistance is an art in itself. It's challenging. I've been clumsy with it in my life, when, especially when I got famous and got success. Man, enough people telling me, "I love you," and the caviar and the champagne. I was like, What the shit? Why me? I don't deserve any of this. What did I do? And I'd fuck things up on purpose just to say, like, I'd trip myself running downhill so I could bloody my own nose and go, ah, now I can feel. Okay, okay, now my heels are on the ground.

I need—

it's clumsy. So I don't think we need the kind of resistance that we create that can harm us. Or get in our way for getting in our way's sake, because I've come to learn, I think we all are, no, when things are going really well, resistance is going to come. If you stay, if you stay with, if you're, if you have any ambition, resistance is going to come.

We often see resistance as a form of failure and something that we should endeavor to avoid. You think about the avoidance of like people building families, or even, you know, many people consider that we're living in a bit of a comfort crisis. This is slightly a different sort of analogy, but most of the diseases that we have today, whether they're diseases of, I don't know, the mind, like, you know, people feeling lonely and isolated, or physical diseases, 80% of Americans getting back pain, but no one in the Hadza tribe in Africa getting back pain, they're all a consequence of us continually choosing comfort, which is a short-term friend but long-term enemy. And the resistance I think is something increasingly we can choose, opt out of.

It's a choice too. I mean, can I hit a little point on this subject? It's called "Tips Included." All right, and I wrote this based on participation trophies, entitlement, how too much of something can be just as harmful as not enough, how we all need good fortune, good faith, and charity sometimes, but we shouldn't rely on that. Okay, called Tips Included. When extra credit's included, credit doesn't get its due. When more gives us less, the exchange rate's gone askew. When amnesty is offered going into the crime, we're more bound to commit it 'cause there's no fine. We start playing to tie instead of going for the win when participation is the trophy for every cow in the pen. If I stay on the porch because you picked up the slack, when you look over your shoulder, I can't have your back. If there is no curfew, we're gonna stay out all night. No tab at our bar, we're gonna get drunk and start a fight. All these long lenses got us losing our sight. You keep lifting it for me, I'm gonna lose all my might. When a 4-star duty suits a 6-star rate, We take our hands off the wheel and rely on fate.

Eating all we can at the all-you-can-eat buffet gives us a 3.8 education and a 4.2 GPA. We steal from ourselves and get away with the scam. What's the measure of merit with less give-a-damn? Hmm, these unlimited options sure have me confused while all the conveniences are keeping me properly lubed. In this red light district with the whore of inflation, the ROI's math don't pay for vacation. So let's just admit it, this extra credit's quite a fluffer, 'cause when the tip's included, the service will suffer.

That's so good.

But it's about that, the conveniences, the long lenses, everything's like, oh, and we've out-convenienced ourself What's AI going to do to us? Talk about convenience. How much, and I want to keep hearing studies, I wonder if you have an opinion on this, how much of you coming up with an idea and then writing and rewriting it, thinking about it, no, no, no, no, that's not the right word. Oh no, this is what I really mean and how to get to it. How much of that is really valuable to get it beyond just an intellectual idea, more valuable than just going, Ah, there it is. Because what comes out of AI, incredibly impressive. My hunch is that, yeah, we can use it for like, uh, signpost to help us. Oh, that's good. Org— that will help. But thank you for helping me organize. But there's a value to us going through the sweat equity of learning something. How you— how do you feel about it?

I mean, exactly what you've said, but the study's have just, that have just come out using different things like ChatGPT have actually proven what you've just said to be true. That when people use AI to produce a piece of work, not only can't they recall what they've made, but they also start speaking in language more like the AI. So they start to lose their own voice. But I mean, yeah, I mean, through history, people like Richard Feynman, the physicist, has said the best way to learn something is to learn it and then to go through the pain of writing it, condensing it down to a simple truth like you do so often in your new book, Poems and Prayers, and then sharing it with the world and then getting the feedback. And if the world understood it like you meant it, like that poem you just shared, you understand it. That's evidence that you get it.

Right.

So I think AI is gonna be great for me saying something to you but not learning something myself. And I think if you wanna defend creativity and innovation and the ability to think, you actually have a huge opportunity, which is to go left when everyone's going right, right? And it goes to what you were saying there. You were talking about be careful when you mess with incentives, like be careful when you choose the easier road, be careful of the unintended consequences. And AI is a prime example of an unintended consequence of you taking the easier road today.

Yeah.

And, you know, I just actually made a video about this, funnily enough, just warning my audience about When something appears to be like a short-term friend, it's usually a long-term enemy.

Mm.

Like when, you know, when you choose easy today, you choose hard tomorrow. And there's always a trade-off. Right.

You think if you choose hard today, you usually get easy tomorrow?

I mean, there's obviously a ton of nuance to this, but, um, In many contexts, yes. So for example, my— I think of what I was thinking of my father. My father would never have— he would avoid conflict at all costs. He would avoid the difficult conversation. And when I zoom out over the decades of his life and marriage, I go, man, that cost you big time.

You caught up with him.

Oh my God. And me inverting that in my own life and continually just confronting it head-on has had the complete opposite effect. You never You know, like when you were talking about being a young man and making that decision because you had that voice in your head saying law might not be my thing, and you made that phone call to your father?

Yeah.

Like, what I hear you did is like you realigned yourself to you. Now, if you hadn't made that call and you'd let a couple more of those bad habits, you would have got to 40 and been like, who the fuck is this guy, right? What is this life? You would have looked around and said, who is she? Who are they? What is this job, right? And that's that course correction that I think it requires you to do this slightly harder thing today. What do you think?

I agree with you. That's the, that's the resistance that you're choosing. You know, look, I still got to learn how to take a vacation because, you know, we— there's sometimes when the wind's at our back And we've earned it. There's sometimes when it's easy street and it's like, yeah, don't interrupt this, man. This is a sweet-ass song. Trust that the hill's coming. Again, don't be so impressed with this. And don't— what I have to do is don't fall into when things are going really well, I go, ah, there it is. That's the main. No, it's not. Not with any ambition, it's not. Or not with life happening, it's not. But my hunch— I want to see what you think about this theory— is rather you shoot for an A and make a C, it's rather better than shooting for a C and making an F. Now, so go for perfection. Reality always comes in under it. But in that moment, when you see the inevitable reality, the outcome, the result, how quickly can we go, "Oh, okay, but I got so much more out of it, the job, the person, myself, because I went for perfection." than if I'd have just gone for, nah, dude, just, I mean, you know, just pass class.

It's again, that little bit of owner's-renter's mentality. And, but what can be hard for me sometimes is it takes, can take me too long to come down from when, oh, it didn't hit perfection. And maybe it takes me a week to go, dude, now do you finally realize that? Of course you weren't gonna get perfection, but you got so much more out of it because you went for perfection.

Yeah.

So be pleased with reality because you got a good grade on it, man. That war, that was good. That piece of art wouldn't have been that true if you wouldn't have been— I don't know, like I say this all the time and I never mean this in a disrespectful way. I've never done a movie or a performance that lived up to what I thought it could be. 'Cause I'm thinking it can be divine. Comes out, maybe majorly inspiring, may speak to masses, even have some magic to it. But I only think it's divine.

That's resist, that's tension.

Yeah, yeah.

Unclosed gap. And I think, I think that everything that's ever been built that's great or creatively brilliant has come from someone who has a big, a big expectation gap. And of course, the very definition of that, you're never going to close it. And actually, the— probably the reason you then are motivated to move to the next thing and pursue divine again is because it wasn't divine last time. Maybe there's still something left on the table, and that means you never arrive, right? You talk about arriving a lot in the Poems and Prayers as well. I, I also was reflecting on your mother's words where she, at a very young age to you, positioned life as a dichotomy of being humble but like know that you're the shit. Yeah. And all those things you went through, and it's the same thing, it's like strive for protection, perfection, but also know that nothing will ever get there. And can you, can you be okay with that dissonance?

Right, that And there's a moment, and I think it's where one of the arts of living is, if you are gonna prescribe to go shoot for perfection, there's that moment when reality comes in, when you had to declare, and the cards speak for themselves, and it's under, but you, because you oversaw it, it's a theory I got called oversee, 'cause you oversee and expect the best, this divinity out of people and art and of yourself, and then it always comes in under.

How quickly can you go, "Ah, nice reality." Can I ask you a question about that then? If you had aimed for something to be perfect and then it delivered itself as perfect exactly how you had imagined, if at all possible, would that have made you happy? Would you have been—

I don't know. Yeah, right?

Would it have made you scared?

Both, probably. Because look, I've had moments. Let me tell you one in Africa. I'm in Mali, Africa. Doggone country. Me and my guy, who's a buddy now, Issa, we're hiking from village to village in the Bandiagara. Each village is 10 to 15 miles away. I went over there needing my anonymity under the name of David. I said I was a writer and a boxer. Well, they called me Douda. Anyway, they didn't give a damn about the writing part, but they were very interested in the wrestling part. So each village I would go to, they started to catch up to me. Strong white men named Douda. And they love to wrestle over there. They love to wrestle. It's kind of a form of entertainment. The boys just walk up and start wrestling. I get to this one village one night, Benjamatu, and I'm laying there. It's a 14-mile hike to get there. I'm laying on the ground stretching. Villages all kind of come up around and they're talking and chattering. And all of a sudden I hear this chatter that's sort of at me. I can just hear it. And I look up and it's these two boys that are about 18 and they're boom, boom, boom, popping at me.

And I can be like— and I know enough in the tone. I don't know what they're saying because they're speaking in Bambata. I'm like, are they talking shit to me? And he goes, yes. He goes, they are the wrestlers of the village. They say they are the best wrestlers in the village and they are challenging You, Terese, they match. I was like, oh, they are. He's like, well, they sure are talking a lot. I go, I don't know if they mean it. Y'all have this thing over here? We have a thing in America where if someone talks too much, they really don't mean it. He goes, yes, we have this, we have this. And just as that happens, you hear the crowd, waaah, scream. And I look up and the two boys, bam, run off. Why? Because the real champion wrestler of the village, Michel, 5'9", tree trunk legs, about 220, burlap bag wrapped with a rope around his waist. He showed up. He doesn't say a word. He just stands over me, points to me, points to himself, and points over here. I look over where he's pointing and there's a big dirt pit.

My heart starts racing. There's the challenge. As my heart's beating, going, oh no. I start to get up because as this ear is saying, oh no, I'm hearing in this ear, if you don't, you will regret this for the rest of your life. You've got to go do it. This will at least be a great story to tell. So I get up. Village goes crazy. Wawawa. About 80 people have gathered now. The chief comes out. I'm standing in the middle of the pit going, I'm not sure how this is supposed to go.

What are the rules?

Chief puts his hands on our heads. Michelle grabs me by the waist. Mimics to me. I grab him by the waist. Then he burrows his forehead down into my clavicle here, and I burrow mine into his. So now we're like two bulls like this. And the chief puts his hands on our head and then raises them and goes, "Thot!" And the crowd goes wild. Ding ding is what "thot" meant. So we start going around, man. And I'm thinking, okay, I get some leverage on this guy. Legs are like tree trunks. I'm like, oh, I ain't getting him down low. So we're scrapping, grappling, boom. I get him over, bam, flip him on his back. He flips me back over. I backflip him off my back, somersault him. He comes in, gets me in a frickin' leg lock that I can barely breathe from, almost got to tap out from. I shimmy that thing. All of a sudden, Chief comes in, separates us. I'm hyperventilating, man. Crowd's going crazy. He's got to split Michelle on this side, me on this side. I had these talismans that were in my beard. Two of them got torn out during the wrestling match.

Got blood running down here. My knees are bleeding. My ankles are bleeding. I'm hyperventilating and covered in sweat. I look over at Michelle, who's just staring at me going, barely a glisten on him. And that's when the Chief goes, "D'up!" And I go, "Oh, shit, here we go." Boom, boom, boom, grabs my waist, bop, bop, barrels his head, I barrel my head, we're off. Goes around again, pretty damn good match. Strong, I flipped him, he pinned me, we got up, got moving. All of a sudden Chief comes in, separates us. Raises both our hands. The crowd goes crazy. Wah! As soon as he lowers our hands, Michelle runs off. Everyone sees him go, and they come in and grab me and put me on their shoulders. Dow, dow, dow, dow. I go over. Now I'm a big man in the village, which means they give me the best chair that has the least broken sort of, you know, straw on the seat, which means The village boy finds me the biggest chicken and plucks it, and they cook it for dinner for me, which means they take me to the cleanest spot in the river.

And I come back that night, we eat, I get on the roof of the hut. What a magical day. I lay back. I see the Southern Cross for the first time in the sky. Like it was a neon light on a black backdrop. It was— you could not see it. It was so bright, staring me right in the face. I laid there 30 minutes, saw 29 shooting stars. I'm going, I might have a direct line. I might be the chosen one.

Wow.

Just as I'm about to shut my eyes, I got a little— in my throat. So I sit up. Gonna spit out over the— off into the— off the top of the roof. Loogie plastered to my face. I forgot I had put my mosquito net on. And I was like, oh, perfect. Just when I was thinking I might have the direct line, I just spit a loogie in my own face. And there became the humor. Now, to finish off that story, the next morning when I left the village, remember Michelle who ran away?

Mm-hmm.

I got to the edge of the village about to make the 14-mile walk to the next village. And there behind the first tree past off the property popped out Michelle. Not a word. Looked at me, bowed, grabbed my hand. He walked me the 14 miles to the next village. Got to the village border, the next tribe, bowed, and walked home. I went back unannounced 6 years later, did the same trip, ran into the same people. The kids had grown 6 years older, everybody. We get to Benjamantu, there's Michelle. He's had 5 kids and he broke his hip. So he's got a limp, right? So we all agree, not another wrestling match. We have a great dinner that night. We talk, we tell stories. They're speaking Mambata, I'm speaking English, but we're just understanding each other's sort of charades now. Get up the next morning, go to leave, find that same tree. Out pops Michel, bows, reaches out his hand, holds my hand, and 14 miles To the next village. Stop. Pause. Turn around. Walk home. I asked Isa back then the first time in '99, after that night when I wrestled Michelle and he walked me the first time, and I got there, I was like, what?

Tell me about that. What happened last night? I do all right? He goes, oh, no, no, no. 'You do very well,' he said. 'When you accept the challenge, that is when you were big man in this tribe. It was not about the win or the lose. You accept the challenge and then you wrestle Michel, who's not only champion of this village, but of this village and 3 village back. And you handled Michel.' Handled was the word. No one win or lose, it was handled. He goes, "You come back, we make money." That's what he told me then. And I went back 6 years later and had that experience. And that experience with Michel, the respect we had, he walked me, broken hip and all, the 14 miles to the next village.

You accept the challenge.

You accept the challenge. That is when you are a big man in this village. Because I was like, they put me on their shoulders, man. What was it? He was like, oh, you are a big man when you accept a challenge. He said, whole village think Michel going to have strong white man named Dauda on back in 10 seconds.

Over.

But you handle Michel. Not win or lose. Handle it. But you were a big man when you accepted challenge. Beautiful. And then he's there 6 years later and walks me the same way. I mean, I think your question was on when we know or how confident when we're feeling like we're on the right path, which that was a time when I thought I was so much. I was like, I think I might be there. You know, loogie in my face. And that to me was God going, You're doing good, but not that good, bud.

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Thank you.

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