Transcript of Jürgen Klopp: Would You Go Back To Manage LFC...? The Real Reason I Fell In Love With Liverpool!

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It was an intense time. We had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break, and you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, Give me a year, see you later.

It begs the question, do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again?

It's possible.

So what would it take? You changed a club, you changed the city, and you arrived at a time when clubs were in a period dysfunction to bring that club back to its glory. And you did that over and over and over again. How?

To win in a very decisive moment, you have to be the best team. And to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through fire together.

How do I get people to walk through fire?

I better go back to the start. Growing up, my mom was very caring. She loved people, and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things, even with football. My teammates were better than me, and I thought I only can get on that level. From the first until last minute, I was a warrior on the pitch, but it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band because you have 19 minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything. But the only chance to get something is to give you all. So do you want to have the maximum success? Don't waste time with holding back.

I want to know why Manchester United didn't purpose you.

No, they tried. But there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like.

Arnie Slott coming in after you and didn't change much.

That's super smart, not changing much. And all of a sudden, you win the league by some distance.

But this year, Liverpool have spent 450 odd million. You never had a transfer window like that.

Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that.

You seem to always be successful. How does someone succeed you?

You want to be able to become the best team in England? You need to.

Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. If you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. To understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are, what do I need to understand about your very earliest context, where you came from? Can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are today and that everybody knows you to be?

I think we all are who we are because the environment we grew up. My dad was a salesman, and my mom came from a family. My grandpa had a brewery, and she worked there, blah, blah, blah, and all these things. But her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more than her own life, definitely. My dad had He loved me as well, but he had expectations, while my mom didn't. My mom was just happy that I was there. My dad had always something where he was not really happy with. All the things my dad wanted me to do, I love doing. He wanted me to be a sports guy. Each sport, tennis, skiing, football, that was his life. He wanted that his son is good at that and he loved doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and drawing drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, Go outside and play something. But then, pretty quick, when I became better, it was never good enough. That was the process. That's how I was brought up. That's him. That's definitely him. Can I keep this picture?

Of course, you can keep. That's good. Because I have them, but I'm not sure where. Yeah, exactly. Good-looking guy.

Was he a He was a tough man?

It's a lot long ago. I never got hit by whatever. Never, never, never. He was just... He wanted to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way, yeah. How People who are brought up in that time, probably, but not tough endless, that you thought, You don't want to have to do anything with him. No, I loved him too bit, and he loved me. He was very proud, but never said it, and these things. He was a good guy, a really good guy. But with his son, he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough. Competitive man, I hear.

Yeah. Reading about stories of Him racing you on ski slopes and sprint races and never letting you win.

That's true. Who knows if it was right? Probably it was right. I don't know. It was not nice in a way. When you tell the story, it's like, My God, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. He had no It's just you stand on the touchline and you run to the halfway line.

When you look back over the course of your career, are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you or principles or values that he taught you that you think Gosh, I got that from my dad.

The one skill I realized that my dad had without knowing that time, it was a skill he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that, that I have it. Today, I know it. I don't I care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment without being too worried what might people think about it. If I'm convinced it's right, then I say. Talking in public is not a problem. It's probably from him. My love for people, unintentionally, is from my mom. So this mix of a very confident and a very caring, very confident dad and very caring mom is where I was brought up in the middle of it.

You wanted to be a doctor before then. You were aiming to be a doctor. That didn't work out.

Yeah, that's true.

Why a doctor?

No, it was always it was something I wanted to do. In all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear that money is an issue, not in a sense that we didn't have enough. We always had enough. But I remember discussions, bad discussions about money, arguments, if you want, who Who spent that? Who spent that? I was the little one that just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I realized I have to earn a lot of money, then I can sort it all. I wanted to earn money to not having this discussions with my wife or with the kids or whatever. It grew as a thought when you are a young man and you think, What could you do with life? For me, it was clear, I cannot earn my money with football because in my mind, I wasn't good I have. Then I got surprised by some people. They thought, Oh, there's something that could be interesting.

What did they see in you as a football player? What was it that they saw in you as a young man? Because I've got these wonderful photos of you as a young player.

Oh, my God. In my village, I was the best player. In my village. I scored the goals, I was the fastest, all this guy, this physical talent. I was really fast Later on, when I started sports science, I could jump far, I could jump high, all these things. It was a physical talent. The problem was small spaces, technique. That was my problem. What they saw, probably, is the attitude. I was a warrior on the pitch. It was difficult to beat me, stuff like this, to kick me out of the game or get me out of the game. I was really focused. I had a really good attitude for the game, but I didn't see it. So I was not happy. I was literally surprised by the approach from professional football clubs. I didn't think, Who's coming? So the question was, Are you number 7 from the game before? Yeah. Come on, let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was before that. It was 87.

You were 20 years old at the time when you went to Frankfurt? Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot happens in your 20th year of life. Yeah. A lot happens.

That was a change. Wow. Yeah, I came to Frankfurt. It didn't take long that I met Marc's mom.

Yeah, your son's mom, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Then she got pregnant, and December '88, I became a father.

Were you scared? 20 years old, become a father.

Massively. When I heard she's I wanted to run away, go, Oh, God, it's not me. So the moment when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The night 13th of December 1988, when Marc was born, was the night when I became an adult and the night who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment on, I was always more an adult than all the a lot of people in my age group. They were at the university, they were at parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday, I couldn't. I played football, low wages, third division, Germany, had two other jobs, one in the morning Playing one at night and playing semi-professional football. That taught me the discipline I didn't have to learn at home because I had no jobs to do in the house. I got it a bit later But it made me the guy I am today.

Because of that experience, when you became a manager yourself, did that become a bit of a personal reference point to understand the individuals that you were managing? Because if you were managing a 21-year-old dad versus a 21-year-old that didn't have kids, did you understand them to be different? In your own words, one is potentially a man and an adult, and one doesn't know what that is yet.

Yes, of course. I don't just want to say I like people. Then I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want to hear it.

I think ask that question in part, because I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had a girlfriend or a wife and kids. I was wondering if there's any truth to that, if they have a different stability.

Oh, it's probably, yeah. There are a couple of problems. You can have a great partner, married or not, and then everything is It's the wrong partner. It's not great. You have no partner. It's not great for some. You have too many. It's not great. There are so many things in life. I never thought about that. I heard about it. I'd coach this in Germany, very successful manager, Otto Rehagel, I love him too bit. It's a fantastic guy. I think he said it once as well that he wants married players because they go home and stuff like this. That's one part of of the personality, but not the overwhelming or the most decisive or whatever. It's like... Football is a football game. You need the cheeky ones as well. So they need them. The one who understands the street smart, you need as well. They get out of situations in life and on the pitch, stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I treated them, let me say, 50% of the time, completely the same, and 50% what he needs, what he needs, what he needs, but in front of the other teammates.

So players came to me, Why do you treat me like that? You would never say that to him. No, because He's from Argentina, grew up without a window, and you are from Munich, and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him, really. To bring all these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all take the same way. It's not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in Senegal. It is different. But then we come together in our dressing room and then everybody says, This is the rule for all of you. Yeah, We need time, of course, for easy. But then all the other starts, Come on, calm down. We want a football team full of different skill sets, full of different talent, full of different You want that because that's what you need. That's what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one, I don't know, helmet over it and say, So that's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like this. In all the other moments, they have to be themselves.

So treat them like that.

This is one of the most shocking counterintuitive ideas that I heard from players with other managers, specifically Basically, because I've just interviewed so many of Sarah Alex-Ferguson's former players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people differently. To hear you say the same thing as well, it really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business, you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent treat people the same. But in the world of football, people like you tell me that's not true.

I think in business, in life, it's the same. To lead, that's number one thing, you lead yourself. That's the first one. In the morning, you stand up, you have to kick your own butt and say, Come on, it's not the greatest day. But anyhow, we go. Then the people you lead, you need to understand, to do it properly. So now, that means you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them, Where are you from? What's your background? What are we doing here and there? And why did you that? And stuff like this. So it means already in that conversation, it's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality, early in, late out, not about these things. But how can we get the best out of people if you treat them all the same? It's crazy. It's in business. I don't think it is like that, but I've only worked in this football business, or maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me, it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to be.

No, actually where it actually is. Can you give me an example that I would know of two people that you treated differently and why you made the decision to treat them differently based on that origin.

You have a young player as an example. So Trent Alexander-Ala comes up to the first team. Then James Milner is already, I don't know, 31 or whatever he was that time. So James makes clear, first and foremost, that Trent doesn't go crazy because he sorts all these things. But there are so many things, just as an example, but James doesn't have to do this and that because he is doing it anyway. So for Trent, you still have to educate the boy. This is an example which you probably didn't think of, but it explains how different they are. They're different age groups. One is 16 or 17 and the other one is 33. So that shows already that's not possible. You are talking about the rules in football. Everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do it. In my case, everybody has to defend the shit out of the opposition team. That's everybody has to buy into that. There's no, no, no, no. I always said, If you are not Lionel Messi, you have to defend. You have to defend. Because I never had Lionel Messi, so they all had to defend. For example, everybody has to do that.

But then to get there, that they really grow together as a group. In a group, everybody accepts that they are different. Otherwise, we are, I don't know, an army, and they are different. But it's not just because we wear the same shirt. We have all our own qualities. To bring them to life or let them shine, you have to get treated in the right way. That's what I love to figure out. How is that possible? That was a conversation The conversations I had, the conversation with players during a season. Of course, there were football talks, but we had already enough meetings. The most important conversations were the private conversations. When the player is not training well, it could be that he just is not ready for training, had a drink last night, didn't sleep enough, or you ask. That's all what you think. He looks like he didn't sleep enough, blah, blah, blah. You'll bring him in, ask him what's going on? He will be surprised. Most of the time, they either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep. They had no drink, blah, blah, blah, but they lost focus right now because massive problems at home.

Without asking, you will never find out. Here's one guy with a problem. Here's another guy, he's flying. Don't treat them the same. The one needs more support and the other one you need to bring down a little bit. So all this, that's how you work with people. In the end, what you want is that the job of a leader is to make the target, the aim, the final destination, whatever, that clear, like the sun, that everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push them every day and say, By the way, there's the sun, let's run there, so that they know it. On the way there, you support them in different ways. It's not so important what I want to say in a moment of anger or whatever it happens. Emotion, do that to us, especially around a football game, you shout something, Did I really say that? Did I? Did I? I did. But it's not so important in a talk conversation with people, which depend on you, you are responsible for. It's not so important what you say. It's much more important what they need to hear. It's not them telling them what they want to hear, no, what they need to hear to deal with their situation.

That's what leadership means, not just telling them off for whatever, that doesn't work, that doesn't work. Try to understand why. I love that part in my job, and I still do that if you want. Right now, not with world-class players all the time, more coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young, younger than me, at least. That's how I understand my role and understood my role.

Was there certain players in your team that you felt you could be tougher with and others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make That would hurt their performance. I'm reflecting-Of course.

You have Sadio Mané and Mo Salah, two top examples. In the end, there are not a lot of people who You saw it coming. We knew they are great. We knew they are massive talents, they have fantastic potential, but they were not who they became later on. In that time, it's not that they came to Liverpool and said, Boss, just want to tell you, I defend anyway, so we don't have to talk about that. Just explain me how we do it. Obviously, to be successful as a football team, you have to organize a football team. To get stability, you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that, based on that, they can start flying. Then let's talk about the football part. Now, there are obviously no defenders, but we were famous for our pressing and counter pressing. I talked a lot to them, and the way We spoke about it was just 100% clear. You want to win more often than not. You want to have the maximum success. You want to be able to become the best team in England at one point. Yeah? Okay, then do that.

Come on. So, agreement. Then from there, we went on. But then with years, and not because they changed or whatever, here a little bit less, there a little bit less. I have to decide. Do I go for them? I would go for a young boy playing in that position and say, Come on, turn, run, fight, jump, and take them off in a moment. No, of course not. You don't do that in that moment. It's a story in the newspaper. We had this one argument, I think, with Mo at West Ham at the sideline when it didn't start and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem, our problems then are always in public. That was not a real big thing, but in the moment, we didn't agree, definitely. How do you deal with that the next day? I think I can say we have a very good relationship today, even though on that day it didn't look like. That's all the thing. You learn, you try to do it the right way, you try to show the player's respect, but at one point, it's never enough, and you have to accept that as well.

Because the players, they grow, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. At one point, you hear years later, he never spoke to me. Whatever another player from wherever says about a former coach, about me, about Jose Mourinho, he never spoke to me. I don't know, we spoke a lot. We just can't remember. We didn't speak what you wanted. I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. So you You can never make it 100% right, but you can only do as good as it's possible for you. That's what I tried all the time, to create a relationship where even when we had arguments, we always found a way out as me player, and it never got carried into the team. That I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. We always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood, Okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sort it, the boss sort it with him or the boss sort it with us, that we can go from here again.

From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in As I was going through all of these football teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain, repeatedly assigned to be the captain. I wondered why. What was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the I have no clue.

The coach I learned the most of, Wolfgang Frank, when he came back to me, he was at me, very successful spell, left. Then we were in trouble again, he came back, and I was the captain. We had a very experienced player from a first division team coming to meins in the second division, Lars Schmidt was his name. Wolfgang said, Jürgen, can we talk? Yeah, of course. Jürgen, I want to make Lars the captain. Yeah, good. So then you are not Captain mehr? Yeah, I know. It was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. My role was not... I was a leader in the team, not on purpose. I was on the pitch, an aggressive leader, which I didn't like. So heart rate above 140, I lost it very often in a very, very not good way. So really aggressive talk, shouting at everybody, and in all that, really. Very often I had to apologize to my teammates.

Where did that come from? Because you're...

I don't know.

There's a real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of the empathy and the love of people. But then there's this other explosive part.

I didn't like it at all. I was afraid when I stopped playing that I'd take it over. I was emotional. I had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But generally, I'm a very calm person. People think, because probably I think I'm a motivator or whatever I do, get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say, Come on, boys, today we go again. Not at all. I mean, it happens from time to time, but not that often. No, I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit... I knew I'm not good enough, actually. My teammates were better than me. I thought, I only can get on that level if I squeeze everything out from an aggressive point of view, stuff like this. That was a bit my explanation because they are so much better. But if I calm down and want to play cool football, I'm out.

You eventually become the manager of Minds? Yeah. You're my age when you get that job and the former manager has been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a club of this size or scale previously. The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says, They want you to do the job. Why did they want you to do the job?

Because I didn't find anybody else in the short bit of time. We played Sunday and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. The whole story is that Eckert Krautson, the manager at that time, we lost We lost the game on Sunday and we had a little camp, a crisis camp, let me say, because on Wednesday was another very important game. We had to play. He took us to a hotel that we stay there, have two good sessions, and then we go for this very, very important and Maybe a decisive game. That night, we have a meeting. We have a meeting with all players, and he said, Sir, gentlemen, I want to ask one question. Do you still trust me? Are you still behind me? I don't want to answer now. I order beer for all of you. I go out, half an hour, I come back, and you tell me. So he goes out, where he just brings the beer in. We sit there, look at each other and think, Huh? And discuss a little bit. I was not captain that time. I was not the captain. But then it's like the decision is no.

What?

Yeah, he asked, Why? You ask? No. It's like... Everyone's in it. Now we have a discussion, yeah, the majority. Some players didn't speak, but it was clear, if you ask, the answer is no. It's like that. I'm not captain, but the captain says, Globo, you tell him. I tell him? Why? Okay, but he comes in. He comes in and he goes, And? And I said, Actually, no. He was shocked. He was really shocked. He didn't expect it. It's more like a little thing to do. Then we say, Yes, we go through that together, something like that. But we said, No.

Why?

Because he was not the right person.

Why?

Because we played bad. I love Eckert Krauzen, but that time for that team, he was just not the right coach. That can happen. It doesn't say anything about you. But we did wrong training, wrong lineups, wrong tactics, wrong everything. That's how things go bad in the wrong direction in that time. We had no... That time, we didn't have to make the decision who can take over or whatever. We just could say no. He could have said, Okay, I will prove you're wrong, or whatever. But he ran out and said, Tomorrow morning, 9: 00, training. Okay. Then he wanted to do a press conference where he wanted to tell the public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season and plays only the young kids. I was one of the I was 33, but I didn't know that that should happen. He called the sporting director, We need a press conference, and I want to talk to them and tell them we change everything. The sporting director says, Yeah, we do a press conference But the subject will be, We sack you. Okay, so done. Now they didn't have a coach.

Then they called me, For that game, can you do it? I said, Yeah, I can do it. I did it and we won the game. They didn't find a manager, so we had Sunday and other games. The first game, we won 1–0. The second game, we won 3–1. From the first seven games, we won six and Drew, one. We stayed in the league pretty comfortably This is incredible. We were a bunch of friends. They were all my friends, and I was their boss. They had to tell me that they changed from now on in the coaches dressing room. What are you doing here? Here's the coaches, that's your office. The The first night, we had twin room. Yeah. They got one more game to sleep there with my friend, you and Cammi, they're in the same room. Then the next day, they all told me, Yeah, you get your own room. Oh, okay. But all the rest, we were a real bunch of friends, and they respected me from the first second.

What was your approach going into that? You go from being a player to a manager of these boys. What's in your mind? Are you thinking, I'm just going to let them do whatever they want to do?

I'm going We had Wolfgang Franker, the best manager we all had when we were at Mainz. She was an exception. Me at Mainz, we were a football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players. I think it sounds normal But in football, it's a way to win games anyway. We never had that. Then Wolfgang Frank comes in and implements, four in the back, ball-orientated defending. We did nothing else than that. We changed overnight into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machines. We were not great football. We were like machines. There were games, our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending. It was new that time, so it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that. Then, Wolfgang left, and none of the other coaches could do that. None. There was no connection to the coaches after Wolfgang. I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolfgang Frank, and now I arrived. The only thing I did when I... The two sessions I had were both exactly about that, 4: 4, 2 ball-orientated movements, and we go for MSV Duisburg that time.

They were third in the table. We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like to find a reason why it makes sense, why we give our absolute all in a moment like this, why we don't invest only the minimum, why invest the maximum, why we would regret it if we don't do it, how better life is if we do it, how much more fun it is if we do it. I love these moments, and probably something like that. I told them, and From that moment on, nobody wanted to play against us anymore. We were like, wow, animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team, pretty much changed overnight. Right.

You fixed the defensive situation, the formation, and you also told the players in that dressing room a story of why we had to give everything.

They wrote us off, show the outside world, whatever you can do. Most of the time it was real life, but that time... In my meetings later on, I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever. Our life was preparation, what happening during the week with us in the world. That was preparation for meeting. I never thought long about it, just remembered it when I needed it. We spoke, I told the boys. But that time, they needed one person to believe in them, and I did. It was not that I had to convince myself, I have to tell them now. Before that season, I told in an interview, this is the best squad my team ever had. It would be really difficult for me to play, but good for us that the team is so good. Then we were in a hopeless situation before I took over. When I became the manager, I was the one who thought, this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet, but we will make sure in a few weeks, they will have a sense, at least.

How important did that prove to be, this idea of making sure that the players you have throughout your career had belief in themselves?

That's all. It's all about that. It's not football, it's life. When you started your podcast, people probably told you, Well, that might be something for you. But you were not sure. Then with each little thing here and there, Oh, how many people listened to your first podcast? Do you remember? No, I think I read it somewhere. Forty?

Something around that. It was under 100.

It's a start. It's a start. All the rest is if you want history, and that's always in life like that. It's just, give it It's your chance. Of course, it makes sense you believe in yourself, but not everybody can do that. But then if you meet somebody who helps you with that, who has a perspective, who can see something in you, then tell them why you should keep it for yourself. Oh, my God, I think he's a talent, she's a talent, whatever. She's good at that, he's good at that. Why we don't tell each other? Where's the problem?

Did someone do that for you? It told you that you should believe in yourself. They saw something in you.

Once I said, I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's the truth. But it's true. I never struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school were genius. We sat together doing exactly this, reading the same books, invested the same amount of time. They had the best A-Levels in school, and I was far off that. A normal reaction would be, I'm a dumb, obviously. But I never thought that. I don't really know why that happened. I took it how it was. I thought, Oh, respect. You can remember all these things crazy. I can't.

But you had lots of players that struggled with confidence.

Yeah. I tried to create a situation to make sure that the player, if they are not confident yet, they are confident. But there are moments when they lose it, Confidence is like, you have to once as a little flower and constantly somebody steps on it. It's like that. Then it's growing again. Oh, now we are confident again. Stuff like this. In football, it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes. If a mistake costs you confident, that's a real challenge. But I tried to. If you would believe as much in yourself as I do, that would be a start. But as long as you cannot do that, just Trust me. You are good because I don't work with other players. I don't waste time. It's true, I don't. I really see something, and if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it. Much more patient than the public wants me to be. But of course, the idea is that one day I help you learn flying, but in the end, you have to fly yourself, obviously. I cannot do that for you. That's what it is, football. You have to perform alone.

They cannot look at me, What should I do? That's my job, is to prepare them as good, to make it the education, the coaching as wide as they just pick for me. That's the idea, but not too much as well. Yeah, it's obviously was a good time in my life doing all these things. I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Really good time.

Do you sometimes have to lie in public to protect a player's confidence? I wonder this because you see managers come out and say, Oh, he can't play because he's injured or whatever, and they say things. But I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players because they're struggling.

Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I ever had to lie, to be honest. I don't know, but we protect players. Super important. For me, super important. He lacks confidence. That's in football, obvious. You see that you run one-on-one on a goalie and you don't make it. You can see it. It's because you don't have confidence. That's how it is. There's not a lot of other reasons. It can be wind, weather, ball, opponent. It's there, but you do it once, you do it twice, three times. Yes, that's not good for the confidence of nobody. Having that in training, the job is not to talk too much about it, it's to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training, that it doesn't last forever. The one thing you have to protect players from is public. Try to, because they are ruthless in moments. They don't care until something happens or whatever. Supporters sometimes I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they were not angry, disappointed, yes, but not angry in a way that, I don't want to see them anymore.

So that helped. But of course, you have to protect them sometimes. Sometimes. We have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well. So that's the job.

Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your team members? And did you ever consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? Because I think this now as a Manchester United fan, I think when some of our players are posting on social media little indirect messages and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, Oh God, troublemaker.

We had situations that players I was texted or posted something at night and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. So not that I read it, but people tell me, Oh, last night, this and that happened. When? 3: 00. 3: 00? Okay. What did he say? This and that. What I do in these situations, even deleted, I go in the dressing room and they all lie on their house. Last night, this and that happened. Got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell everybody.

You would ask him to say in front of everybody? Yeah.

That's nice, yeah. The thing is I don't go for him and tell him, How can you write that? Or whatever. I said, Come on. Somebody told me, so I now went, not important really, but come on, tell the whole team what he wanted to say. Then he started, it's not great in that situation. I don't like to bring people in there, but I think that's a deserved punishment for something like that. But actually, the effect is nobody ever did it again because nobody wants to be in that situation in a dressing room sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever. I discussed individual problems, if it was okay, in front of the team, if it was important for the team. Yeah, come on, explain why you did that, why you went out that long, what happened in the last two hours.

This photo here is of things going well for you. Yeah. Mines?

Before I had that To get here, these are tears. The tears the year and two years before were not for the same reason. You probably know we didn't get promoted for a point and a goal. First a point, then a goal, and then this happened. That was the first day when it really went well.

This was the day that you got mind promoted for the first time in their history to the Bundesliga? Yeah.

But before winning that, I learned how to lose. This is very important, I would say. I think that's, again, to learn, even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible. You have to accept that from time to time, you lose. When you then keep going, you have a good chance. If you learn from it. A defeat is a defeat if you don't learn from it. If you learn from it, it's a very, very important information. Obviously, in football, we have a lot of opportunities to get beat and opportunities to learn from it. But this was the biggest relief in my life, not happiness. That was just pure relief. The pressure was mounting I was crazy. Not only myself, not from outside. I don't know even over the outside world thought. But to make it happen that year, that was really special.

But it took two years of Coming close. Yeah. Dealing with the disappointment. Yeah, true. When I spoke to Jamie Carriger, I asked Jamie Carriger, actually, this early this morning, I said to him, What was he curious about with you? This is actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses in your career, whether it was in the Champions League or I remember when you were head to head with Man City in that season and you were one point shy of winning the league. His question was, he's fascinated with how you were so good at dealing with the disappointment of near misses, because sometimes near misses can cripple people. They can turn them into a downward spiral. It can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it appears through your career that near misses ended up being positive forces for you.

It's not that I knew that always, but we spoke about very early about what made me the person I am. These people, of course, mom, dad, my faith as well. I knew always that I'm not here to get everything. I'm here to give everything. That doesn't help in a moment when you fail for a point. But in the general understanding as a person, of course, it helps. I'm not surprised that I fail. I don't see myself as a constant winner in my mind. I see myself as a constant trier. I don't know constant winners, but there might be some out there. But I just can't imagine a world, it would be like that. All the people running around, all the happy people that win all the time. Nobody wins all the time. Nobody does. It's all about dealing with the things you want and not get them. Then you want it more or not anymore or whatever. So the moments were not great, but I learned it here. Doing it that day changed the destiny of the Club of Meisner 5. That's how it is. My destiny, the players' destiny changed everything. So we wanted it that hard, but we learned before we have to try harder.

And that's what I always took. If you don't get the result you want, try again and try harder.

It was Christian that gave you that job, wasn't it? Yeah.

Mr. Heidel.

Christian Heidel. I spoke to Christian Heidel.

His English is very funny, isn't it?

I'm going to translate it for the viewers, but I'm going to actually play what he said to you in German. Oh, of course. So you can hear it.

Here we go. Globo. Yes, dear Globo. We've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First, we were both players. Then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mainz. You changed an entire club. You changed an entire city. Back then, we were promoted to the Bundesliga together, and today, Mainz has been in the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city, and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool, and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that. I'm always asked, what makes Jurgen Klopp special? To this day, he has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important. Apart from the fact that you are, of course, an outstanding expert. I hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Majorca. Have a great day and lots of fun with your podcast. Wow. You did Le Bo. Yeah. Le Bo? I told you.

You changed a club, you changed the city. You did that over and over and over again. You went on and did that again at Dortmund, winning a huge range of awards there at a time when they weren't considered to be hopeful. And then you went off to Liverpool and did the same. I was reading about how when you travel to Liverpool, there was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across the channel to Liverpool because they were all very excited. You arrived at a time when they were in a period of dysfunction, similar to where Manchester United are now, I guess. You managed to bring them up from being a team that were dysfunctional, hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering that if Liverpool would ever come back, I was hoping they would never come back again, but you brought them back annoyingly. When you When you arrived at Liverpool that day, you said in that press conference that you're the normal one. I remember that. What did you observe when you arrived? What was the culture? What was the feeling?

And what was your first thought about what you had to do to bring that club back to its glory?

The feeling I got, I had roughly a week to think about everything from the first call to the signature, I think.

Did you have other offers from other clubs?

Oh, in that moment, not. But in the summer, I had a lot of offers like before when I finished at Dortmund. But in that moment, it was just Liverpool. But it was destiny because I didn't want to. It was not... We were on a family holiday in Lisbon with the two boys, Ula and I, sitting there, phone goes, my agent, Why is he calling? The boys look in my face and I say, Liverpool. And the both, Yes, the boys.

Yeah.

When I looked, What? What is he? And she didn't see my lips When I spoke, What? And realized, Oh, my God. We start again. Before she knew, we will go to Liverpool.

Why did your boys react like that?

Come on. If you're not a Man United fan, you know what Liverpool means for two people. They loved it. We fell instantly in love with that club.

Did Manchester United have a call?

Yeah, I spoke to them. In the year when Alex retired, they spoke to me. Yeah, of course, they were interested at one point. That time, I would have been interested. I was a young... I had a sensational team at Dortmund. My God! Somebody probably thought, What is he doing there? Later on, I heard that my players, Hender, Adam Lalana, James Mellon, that they flew to a Real Madrid when we played a semifinal in the Champions League to watch us. I wanted to see, What is Dortmund doing? My God, what a football that is. I mean, you cannot get bigger compliments. It's really good.

I want to know why Manchester United didn't- No, they tried.

It was wrong time, wrong moment. For me, I had a contract at Dortmund. I wouldn't have left, not really for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted in that case now, it was one of a few options, I think.

So it was you that turned down Manchester United, not Manchester United turning you down?

Yeah, that way. So Yeah.

We need someone else on negotiations.

We need someone. No, he's not there anymore. The guy who negotiated that, so there are now other people in charge. It's long ago.

Why wouldn't a guy like... Manchester United is often known as the biggest club in the world. Why wouldn't you take that job? Why didn't you take that job? Manchester United, the great Manchester United.

It's just typical. We are now not in a private space. There are some reasons what the people in that conversation told me, which I didn't like.

Oh, really?

So United was that big. We get all the players we want. We are like, We can this, we get him, we get him, we get him, we get him. And I was sitting there. So it was not my project. It didn't feel like my... It was a wrong time, but on top of that, it was not my project. I didn't want to bring back, I don't know, Paul is a sensational player. My God, but these things It don't work usually. But these things or Cristiano, my God, we all know that he's the best player, or together with Messi, the best player in the world. But bringing him back never helps. In that time, in 2013, it was obviously not about Cristiano, maybe about Paula. I'm not even sure when we don't get the numbers together. But it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go.

It wasn't about the football?

No, not at all. I sat there and was like, Anna, I am not sure. That's not for me. Then the pure football project comes up with Liverpool. And the sensational talk to Mike Gordon, that's really important as well. He was the owner. I know John and Tom, of course, as well, but Mike was responsible for us. After that talk, I wanted to be his friend. He's such a good guy. So that's how it started. And in the end, it was pretty special.

I find this fascinating because as a Manchester United fan, I observed From the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left, we adopted a very different approach, and we brought in all these massive name players, Dean Maria, Falcao, Ibrahimovitch, Pogba, Ronaldo, and we failed. It taught me something as an entrepreneur about what matters more. Actually, when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your philosophy that you prefer attitude and character versus how many Instagram followers you've got and what you've done in the past. Yeah, of course. I wanted to get your take on why you think the last—this is very selfish for me—the last 15 years at Manchester United haven't worked out as an objective observer. I need to know. You can't No, you're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful. We are currently underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view?

I know you don't want to hear that.

You have a hypothesis, though.

I didn't think a second since I joined Liverpool about what Man United did right or wrong. I just did. It's like I buy into a situation. I went to Liverpool, and that moment, you became our opponent, not my enemy, but a very important opponent, one who is much more fun to beat than maybe and like others. It's with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool. We lived there for I know so many people, great people. Absolutely. But then you go to the game and think, Oh, my God, that's something different. Not I make that up, it's like that. But I really didn't think. But always in football, it's like this. Again, like in life, you have a problem and you only try to find a solution for now knowing you have two days later another problem. You know it, but it's such for now. Just find a solution for that problem. There's no mid, no long term. So generally, okay, we have to deal with that for another day or two, and then we can sort it. That means in our experience, we have to deal with it for a year or two, a decade, and then we can make a big step.

In our case, in football case, contracts are running out, player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this. But because you're in such a rush all the time, just because you want to or have to win the next game. A little bit like that, being now in a situation, probably united, in the years when they were not happy They would buy the time from that time, Jose becoming second. No one was really happy there. You think, Oh, remember that? In that time, second was not good enough. Now, you are not even close to that. But that's not a Man United story for me. It's just a football story. It's always like that in the world of football. You win, you are the greatest. You lose, you know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So you're constant, and it's only about your own idea what really want to do and where you want to go. Everything in life is about development. Today, you were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago. So it means the time between then and now counts. So if it counts, for me, the next 10 years, do the same.

It's important what I do. It's important what I see in a year, two, three. I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that, and especially the destiny and the future of a football club. A player can score a goal, can score five goals, will never solve the problems if you have real problems. I don't know the United problems, but Liverpool was the same. It's not about that. On the day when we lost, sold, Phil Coutinho, that was not the day when I thought, Oh, good that we have the money. I lost a player I wanted to work with for the next 10 years, if you want. It was not that I thought, And we can invest it. Yeah, we invested it smartly, that's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and thought of that. We had to sort differently. But we found two really solid, solid and becoming world-class players with Alison and Fandai. That was for the future, to go from there. Now that's the difference, I think.

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It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time, and the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These are what I call Bearfoot shoes by Vivo Bearfoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis, and that at all times in our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. Research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivo barefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. If you want to start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot. Com/steven, and you'll get 20% off when you use code stevenb20 at checkout. That also comes with a 100-day money-back guarantee. What I love about football is the analogies to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team like we're seeing, I think Crystal Palace at the moment, who objectively don't have maybe the best players in the world.

They don't have the most money.

Bournemouth as well.

Bournemouth as well, yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic. It's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the most talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap?

There must be something. Now, look, it's a situation at the moment and the situation with Crystal Palace and Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If Bournemouth wins the game 1-0 and doesn't perform particularly well, You take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would really find an article in the newspaper about it, just win and go, but united is united. United, each step is under focus. They won, but he didn't play great. They win a game and then somebody doesn't perform well, so pick him out and go for him full throttle. You think, wow. The coach has to pick him up and go, No, it's all right, stuff like this, and the next one. They're different. It's completely different situations. The only problem you have now, in the time you try to sort your problems, all the other clubs improve their situations. Liverpool has an incredible squad, yes. Are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible squad. City-city. I don't want to strike back. There's already three clubs. Chelsea, in that time when everybody thought, do they have an overview about their transfer market?

Do they know who they own and who they loan and stuff like this? Obviously, somehow it pays off. They have already five clubs. They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No. Yeah. Here's the problem. Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe this year, I'm going to build on that. Find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation Again, find a reason to enjoy a 1-0 victory, 2-0 victory at home, whoever against whoever. Southampton, try to enjoy that. Really be happy, go home, and not listening to others who tell you then. But Southampton, that's what we had years ago when we decided after a draw against West Brom to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the Kop and Hold his other hand and said, Thank you. Then the press conference, Tony Pooh is said, What a world we are living in, when Liverpool, with the money they spend, celebrate a point against West Brom. Thank you. But it's your choice how you grow together again. I think after all the years now without a lot of good football, they need to find a way to grow together again.

I fully believe in Ruben Ammarim. I think he's a man that's focused on culture, and I like how honest he is as well. I think with the team that they have around them, with people like Jason Wilcox and Inios, who I've met, and Kaleh and all the That's the only thing that are there, I think we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that because I just think they're aiming for more long-term things. They're aiming at more long-term solution.

The only problem is you have no clue about football, but besides that, that's a small problem. Good on you. But I have faith. That's great.

I don't know if all my friends do, but I certainly do. The only reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long-term things now and not buying players because they have loads of Instagram followers. When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to come and join, you said, the reason you chose Liverpool is because they felt like a football project versus Manchester United, who seemed to be a bit less football-orientated.

But it's not the same year.

Two years before. I'm wondering, what is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project?

The situation. I knew the club, I knew the team. If you look on top of that, I didn't think it that way, but when Alex left, they became champion in his last year, but it was not that the team was the one you build a future on. That's how it is. When you come in, it's a bit built to fail if you wanted. But I didn't see it that way. At that time, it had other reasons. But if I would have thought longer about it, it would have been probably... David Moyes, fantastic manager, what he proves every year, couldn't do the job. And since then, it's a bit of a problem. So a new team needs time.

He was stitched up.

So he needs time. Liverpool, the team, as I said when I came, nobody likes the Not even the team likes the team. I like the team. I like the team. I knew the players. I thought, when Bobby Feminian moved there, I thought, Oh, that's a smart transfer. I knew Christian Banteke, I loved Deepak O'Reilly, I knew John Hennessy, I knew Adam Lawner, I knew plenty of players. He heard only, I'm not good enough. I thought, Well, let's see. So I like the team. So that's a football team, proper football, super attitude. Just on day one, I could have played Hender, Millie, and Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my first lineup, but it's a proper engine room. It's smart players. It's people who really want to perform, want to work hard, and all these things. That's what you need for a start. I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in the preseason, and I was massively disappointed about the dressing I remember you have these pictures in your mind, you think, Oh my God, it's Envie.

You walk in and make two steps into the dressing room when you run against the wall and you think, Kidding? Is that all? Where's the rest? English dressing rooms, really small in the old stadium. There we think, Oh my God, how can you bring it? It was built for 11 players, and now we come here with 30. So people in that room, it doesn't help. I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's happy. I knew that I liked the team.

That's a good start. And did they tell you that they were going to develop the ground, the stadium? Did they make any promises to your assurances?

Did they tell you you're going to get-No, we didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That's nothing I need to talk about in this conversation. I know the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team, not the club, that I was involved in all the other stuff happened with time. I realized This is my responsibility now as well. You never know. I don't plan seven, eight, nine years belt in a club. It just happens. I don't think they could sack me, but I know it could happen. I plan from a specific moment on. When I sorted the first few things, then I planned mid and long term or always did, knowing it might not be for me. But I was never worried about that too much.

What was the first couple of things you thought you had to change to get them winning and to get the confidence back and to ultimately bring the city behind you? Was there anything you thought, Okay, the first thing I'm going to have to do is get rid of him, change this?

A year before, and I Not in that season, but two years before, they nearly became chairman. It was a different team. It was a very specific way of football. Offensively, oh my God, they were ridiculously good. Defensively, yeah, lucky, good goals Probably there, stuff like this. It was not the same. We didn't have the team from that time. We didn't have Suarez, we didn't have Sterling, we had Dennis Sturge, stuff like this. But it was different team, completely different. I arrived there, I had five strikers. It was Chris Humanteke, Danny Ings, Divo Gorigi, Bobby Femeno, Daniel Sturge, five strikers, and I want to play one striker system. How do we deal with that? But it was fine. There was so much quality, just a It's all it. The first thing I had to sort is to organize them. Find a way to make sure that they understand that we have a chance to win the next football game. We have to do a couple of things for that. For Tottenham, three days time to train. Jump in their face and let's see what we get for it. It's not organized. It's like we started with an organized chaos.

I gave them a few ideas about where we want to put them under pressure, and in that moment, now do it. And afterwards, we talk about it, how it worked out, because there was no time to train. Anyway, we had no time. The week after, we played European League, I think, in the midweek, and then you play again. It's like you are in a rush at a coaching career with all the games you have to play, if you really want to, a top team especially, if you really want to develop a style of football, you are set up to fail because it's like you have no time in the preseason. Their players are everywhere playing big tournaments, and then you come two weeks before the season starts into your camp. Okay, so let's go from here. Then you play top teams, play every three days from a specific date on. Obviously, we lost a lot of finals. That means we played a lot of finals. That means we played all the games until the end of the season, which is a lot. There's no really time to train and really develop things. You have to use each little moment to implement a specific idea.

We all can buy into. That's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham. Simon Miniu, they had to make a few really good saves, but they had to do as well. That year, Tottenham was really strong. They became second behind Leicester, I think. It was that This is the season, and that's the start.

What are those little ideas that you started to implement one by one?

If you don't have time to change football, what do you mean? We are all not genius. We cannot go there and show them a little bit. Pass the ball here, pass the ball there. If you pass the ball back again, you can shoot and you're alone in front of the goal. That doesn't work like that. I'm 100% convinced that you have to make sure that you are stable. If you are stable Dibal, that means that the other team, whatever they try, it's not easy for them to get through and should just finish. I don't like that. If you can avoid that, do it. Because we are people, but we now realize a few times, it's not easy. If they have Five, six chances after each other, opportunities after each other. Then it's like that you don't feel great. Nobody plays his best football if each attack of the opponent ends in the arms of your goalie. That just doesn't work. How can we do that? The ability is to organize a team that's number one, two, and three on the to-do list of a successful manager. That's what I did. We organized. Then we told them to run their socks off.

You have to show the people that you want to change something. You have to show the people that you want to achieve something. I can tell them, but at the end, you have to show them. So run. They went for it. I loved it so much. They loved it so much. It's easy. They're all top fit. They want to run. Just show them which direction and it goes. Then we developed Step by step, our own way of football. Brought players in step by step, but we got Staba pretty quickly. Not as much as we wanted. I think we became six, seven, eight. I don't even know the first season. Two finals, great. We lost both. Not great. But then we knew each other and we loved working together with this group. Brought in super players, really super players, super character, super players, and stick together. What can you do? We lost the European League final in Basel. How it always is, there's a party after the game. You cannot organize a party, but you always know if you lose, who wants to go to the party? I was a new manager. Yes, not that new anymore, seven, eight months in or so.

I realized some players are under there, but it was in a team hotel. I called them, told them, All here, come on, come down, says, Oh, it was really I tell you what, this was only the start. We only are together since six, seven months. This is not the last final we're playing. This is the first final we played. Okay, we lost a bit of Caraboa. That's not important. The first international final, we lost. No problem. We go again. Then I went on a stay on the dance floor. It was a dance floor. I said, All coming. When I'm saying, We are Liverpool. I had a few parties after the finals we lost, and I always thought, I don't waste time at all on not being happy about what we achieved over the whole year because qualifying for a final is a real achievement. Losing it is not great, but until then everything was fine, and I never We accepted that we ignore the rest. So we have a party, and then we went on to achieve new things. We need a bit of time, obviously, but it was okay.

This goes back to the point earlier about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose to make sure that you don't get depressed.

If you don't learn from a defeat, it's a real defeat. If you learn from it, it's a very, very important information. That's how I always understood it. I had enough opportunities to learn, really. How I say it, I lost more Champions League finals than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. It's the truth anyway.

You're known for what they call heavy metal football.

Yeah, that's the end of it.

Do you like that phrase?

I said a lot of things, but it's like I said that it was not in my mind that I thought, I really want to play heavy metal football. They asked me about Arsène Wenger on the comparison, and they did think we are similar in a way, and I thought, What? Arsène and I, no. Come on, don't be disrespectful to Arsène. I'm a young, blah, blah, blah man from somewhere. But if you want to compare us, then I'm not sure that's possible because Arsène's football is rather like an orchestra. My team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band. But that was the first day when I thought about my team, I got a heavy metal band.

But But it's true.

Yes, somehow.

It is true. I know that more than anyone is a Manchester United fan, rushing. I'd hate playing your football teams because they ran so much. They were so passionate. They never let up. They could always win in the last minute. And the intensity was... You were just anxious as a football fan watching the games because it was so full on. And it was almost overwhelming emotionally. I remember through your era, sometimes you'd win games by seven. You'd score seven goals, five goals. Every week when I pull up my phone to check the scores, that week, Liverpool have scored five again. Oh, they've scored seven again, they've scored six again. Sometimes you would concede three, but it was crazy how high intensity the way you played football was.

Don't waste time with holding back. I don't understand it. We have nothing to do the 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn. I had to learn to manage games. Inside me until the last day, it was Come on, try. But then, I mean, I grew up and I got more mature and stuff like this. I was like, Okay, come on, hold the ball, control the ball. All the things at one point you do, you learn at any time on your journey. That's how it is. I love the game so much and could play it not that good, that I was so happy that I could work with these outstanding players. I couldn't... I loved it. I enjoyed it so much seeing them doing what they're doing. I was number one supporter of my team, teams, wherever I was. I love what they did. That's what I carried through the week. I didn't tell them. I told them, I want to be your friend, but I cannot be your best friend. Because I'm the one who tells you off very often. They'll tell you, This is not right, this is not right.

But the general feeling was, I love them. In my mind, my ex-players, I love them all. And some of them don't love back, let me say like that, for some reasons or whatever, but that doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs.

Do you think it's important how you win? Because this heavy metal, high intensity-Oh, you win. Was great for the fans. They love watching 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. They love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters, or do you think it's just about getting the three points?

We didn't win that often, 5, 0, 7.

It felt like it. It felt like it was a win.

Against United, we did. You can cut it out. No. Yeah, of course, it's important. If you have your backpack going to stadium as a player, if you have your boots, and if you wear a shirt, don't waste time with anything than giving you all. There's no It's guaranteed to get anything, but the only chance to get something. So give you all first until last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people I want to hear, but we earn the money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all these things. For that, with all the stories around, the only thing we really have to deliver is give your absolute all in a game like that, whatever, whichever game is there. 5: 30, 2: 30, 3: 30, whenever the game starts, give your absolute all.

But why not just one-nil and defense and boring and pass it round? That happens.

That happens in games. You realize, Okay, we've got to go about today's not our day. Come on, let's get it over the line. That happens. But it cannot be the target or the purpose for the next game again. Let's do it like that. Not for... There are clubs, if you're only realistic target is to stay in the league. It's a wonderful result. But we talk about a club like Liverpool. We are bigger than that. You have to win each football game when you are manager of Liverpool. That's It's not that before the season anybody thinks, Oh, I don't know, 38 games? Oh, that makes that? More than 100. Nobody had ever. It's not like that. But still, each defeat and each draw is like, How could it happen? That's why you have to play in a specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do, but the top clubs, they have to win all the games. When you have the chance, you win them clear. You win them with the proper results, stuff like this. You have to make the people enjoy the football you play. I love to do that. I loved it, honestly.

It's like the games we played, the results we had were just incredible. It's just amazing. But not all of them. I After 1-nil, as much as I do all the others. The Champions League final was the worst final of all the four my teams played, but we won it. Would I take, would I change? Okay, let's the other three as well. The performance in other games was really good, but we lost. Here, it was not fantastic, but we won. So all fine. It's about the result. But if you have a result and another result, it has to lead to really good football at one point, as good as possible for your specific team. You want to stay in the league? Do it with good football. You want to qualify for Europe, do it with good football because we are there for the people. It's not there that we just go home and the people think, Oh, it's unwatchable. I'm not I come next week again. That's not fair. Try to play. The game is a really cool game, so let's make sure that everybody sees it.

What is the Liverpool way? When you come to Liverpool, you are the manager or you are a player, what is the thing that you have to do that's specific to Liverpool in order to be successful?

You have to understand the community. The community is just a city community, and it's a bigger community around the world. There are so many people, and this club went through a lot, not as the only club in the world, but come on, for that moment, we just think about ourselves, went through a lot. The reaction to these situations was always exceptional, to be 100% honest. That's what you have to understand, what you have to learn, that this club means more to the people than just football. That was what you have to understand. That's why what we do is more important than it maybe is somewhere else. That that's the responsibility we always took and understood 100%, our players understood. To play for Liverpool is not just a club where you play during your career. It's the club and it's something you will definitely remember for life. We tried to make sure that the boys understood. If we give our absolute everything now, we meet in 10, 15 years, look back, and we think it was the best we could have done, the absolute best we could have done. I think that's how my view on life is as well.

All the other stuff is just solving the problem in front of you. That's something we have to sort. But when you sort, you think about what's the effect for the rest. That's what some people, some clubs maybe don't want to see because the pressure is too big just to make sure, Okay, tomorrow at least they will not write. We have no clue. Tomorrow at least they will say, They found a solution. Then we can think about the next day or whatever.

I don't know how someone succeeds you because you have such a big aura. Are you aware that you have a big aura?

I don't know if anybody has the awareness of that. I heard about it, but it They don't know what it means, 100%, to be honest. But I see it with other people.

Energy, when you arrive, it's the passion, it's the ability to talk, it's the ability to inspire people. It has an impact on the rival team you're playing because they go, Clops here, and big Big personality, big charisma. Arnie Slott coming in after you, he doesn't appear to have the same size of an aura. I don't know, I just think, big shoes to fill. In terms of your aura?

I have to go to the toilet.

I bet you do.

No, really.

Okay. That's good.

Big shoes.

Big shoes. I would not want to fill such shoes.

A couple of things. First and foremost, I thought I have to say what I had to say when I announced my exit, if you want, my retirement, we're going to call it, at the time, and people judge that, wrong moment, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It cannot change that. The first one, the feeling was I have to say that. Then you have to finish the season as good as somehow possible in either world. You win something. We couldn't do that for whatever reason. Then you have to make sure because that's still something you have to do. You have to try to make it as easy as somehow possible for the guy who's coming after you. That's what I tried as well. Because I wanted them all to do incredibly well. I always thought, if somebody is not doing it that way, it's the first hint you can get that maybe he wants the next guy not to do it well. They were shouting, Oh, my God, he did that, he did that, he did that. I don't need that. I want Liverpool to do well. I want Liverpool to win, but they did. What I liked a lot about Arnett, and Arnett didn't hesitate.

But you said, No, I don't want to go in this shoes. Arnett didn't have that problem. He thought, Okay, that's a great club, that's a great team. He's right, it was a fantastic club, it was a fantastic team. He Stepped into that. We had a lot of contact after that. He was just a super good guy. My God, what a team. Wow, thanks a lot. All these things. I knew, yeah. He made the best. He got the best out of this team, and they became champion in an incredible manner, to be honest. I'm really, really happy about that. That's all. It shows, again, it's all about how you see it. You can see you step into my footsteps, how you said it, called it, or you take over a fantastic football team.

It was brilliant. My best friend's a Liverpool fan, and he said, before you left, actually, he said, This is the best squad Liverpool have ever had. Arnie has inherited that squad, which is considered to be the best squad by many people that Liverpool have ever had. In that first year, it didn't really change much. There wasn't any big signings come in. I actually heard from one of the players in Liverpool, them say to a really good friend of mine that the best thing Arnie had done was actually in that first year, don't change much, don't come in and try and radically change things.

But that's what Arnie Slot would say himself. Probably, I think he said it. That's super smart. It's not about what Arnie wants to show the world what he can do, it's about how to get the best out of this team. That's exactly what he did. Not changing much means he changed a little bit. We became third the year before, so there's not a lot you have to change, but a few it I said, Things you have to change, and all of a sudden, you win the league by some distance. That's what it is. Not that he has to put his new own stamp. This team was good in a lot of ways, but we didn't win the year before. That's what his job was, and he did that in an incredible, impressive manner. That's all you want. You need people who have the confidence to do these things, because it doesn't make sense if you have a manager who is not 100% sure about the things he wants to do and I want us to play like this, or if that's not possible, I want to play like this, or I want to... But it may be completely different.

That doesn't work. Being a football manager is already a challenge with all the different things you have to do. Being a football manager in such a competitive league like the Premier League is a real challenge. Being a football manager in the world we are living in with media, social media, and all these things, it's an incredible challenge. Believe me, you have no clue what's coming up the next day. You think, Oh, my God, where's that coming from? Who was that? Oh, my player. You read a story, whatever, and all of a sudden you think, Oh, from a problem, it turns into your problem in a wing. So sort that, and all the rest as well. So you need this. I love that about Arnaud, that he came in and took over, and he knew he got a good team. Yes, it was. And did a perfect job.

I mean, in terms of making changes, This year, Liverpool have spent what, 450 odd million, which is a crazy number. I think you've broken the transfer record in various positions several times with Wertz and with Isaac now as well. So change has They've all arrived. These are new people. They're coming in with their own ideologies from their previous clubs. They've all arrived at once, a lot of new faces at once. Is this not now where the challenge begins? Because this is going to become Arnie's team now.

Yeah, but that's not a problem. That's just completely normal. It doesn't mean exactly that today. It was a lot of change. I mean, no team in the... By the way, it's 450 or whatever million. I don't know the exact numbers, but they earned a lot of money as well. Change always has an impact and change always needs time. But people talk then about, Yeah, but this... No, that's not like that. He keeps us exactly the same team like last year. Darwin Union is still there, Luis Dias is still there as an example. So they start playing, but they have problems. Say, Yeah, we need a change. So now they are not there anymore. The new guys are there and they are really good players. It's not working out. Why it's not working yet? Because development needs Then nobody can change that. People need to find, need to adapt to situations, need to adapt to things, all these things. It's all good, it's all in place. What you have at Liverpool this year has to be in the competition in the decisive moments, and then they have to be ready to go for it. There's no guarantee that you then will win it again.

That doesn't happen just like this. You cannot be champion, spend money and be champion again. The other teams don't sleep. That's how it is. To become champion, you need luck in moments here and there. That's how it is. Nobody wants to hear that. But crossbar, over the line, not over the line, all these things, it can go in your direction or in the other direction. So it's all fine. We discussed the situation now like it's a struggle, surprise. We take the money and throw it against them, 450 million, but they earned 200 odd million as well. So it's all fine if you're with Liverpool, and Only these people are really the only people who matter. If you are with Liverpool, you trust them and they do the right, they did the right stuff, they do the right things. So work on it and become the best football team this team can be.

You never had a transfer window like that, where you spent that much money.

No, we built three stands and a training ground.

Yeah, exactly. I remember the press conference, I think, when you were referring to City's ability to spend money.

I had no clue that this is possible. Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend like that. My last year at Liverpool, so the Adidas deal, the new stadium, all these things, they earned more money, but it was never, ever I could have asked for the amount of money, but that's not a problem. That time, it was not there, no problem at all, really not. I love the fact that we were as successful as we were and build new stands and build a training ground because we talk now about a transfer window in the way you want to talk about it, spend a lot of money, but there's no discussion about the stands and no discussion about the training ground. They are second to none. The training ground, the stands are wonderful. At the same place where Anfield is, they could build pretty much a new stadium without leaving the old one. That's a fantastic story, and that will stay forever. I've heard. Maybe at one point, they decide the Kop could be even for more people or whatever. I don't know if that ever will happen, but you could do stuff there.

That's what I love about this. I think I really want as much as I can. It's not my first target because I have to win football games with my team. But I want that a club benefits from the time we were together after we left. I want that.

This might be quite a naive observation, but in the time when you were at Liverpool, my assessment of Liverpool was you didn't necessarily have the world's most famous starting 11 team, but you could be anybody. When you brought in Milner, who was at City before, and when you brought in these other players, I I would be like, Why are they signing him? He's not. But then when they'd play for Liverpool, they would be unbelievable players, and you could be anybody. There was almost this culture at Liverpool, which I observed, where you didn't necessarily go for the Galactico players. You weren't trying to get Ronaldo or Messi. You were going for these players that had character and a culture fit. Ultimately, that meant that at times it looked like you were playing with 12 men. This transfer window that I've just observed, where you have gone for the very best names, some of the best players on planet Earth that were number one choices for Real Madrid and the biggest clubs on Earth. I almost don't recognize Liverpool moving like that in a window. There's part of me that I'm like, Hopefully, this is their Falcali Di Maria moment, Ronaldo moment, where they thought big players, but they didn't think of culture.

I'm praying.

Yeah, you wish.

That's the difference, you wish.

That's the difference, you wish. I guess I'm incredible striker, incredible striker. Flo Wertz, you all will eat your words if you have used the wrong words. He's an incredible talent. Etiketté, incredible player. Yeah, just an offensive player. It's a Really good. Well, you would squat. If the young centre-half is not getting injured, it's the perfect squat. Now, he's injured, that doesn't help. Then you might be a majority on the centre-half position. Besides that, it's a perfect squad. Two super left backs, really super right backs. It's just a really good football. That's how you set a team up. Now, you have to deal with the situation. They all think they have to start the game, but that's the normal job. It's not that it's difficult. That's the It's a normal job. You have this discussion who will start a week or two in a third week. One is injured and you are happy that the other can start. That's the world a football manager is living in. We don't have to worry about What's that? I'm really interested. You don't have to worry about Liverpool. They will be fine.

This was just the net spend graph of the different clubs. Well, you while you were there. It's quite clear that you weren't spending the same as your rivals during your time. A lot of the fans in the media speculated that the owners, the Fenway Sports Group, just weren't giving you the money, but you were still getting the results, which is pretty What's the public perception?

That I didn't ask for the money. That's probably not right. We had these conversations, but I didn't ask in a way, If you don't get it, we can do it. It's not my job to think about how much we can squeeze out of whatever area. I felt massively respond. My idea was always with the boys we have, become the best team you can be. You were right when you said we were maybe not the best team. I think it was a period when we played football, you could have thought that's maybe the best played by the best team. I don't know exactly between 18 and 20, there was a pretty long spell. But we always, and it was the idea, we always were able to beat the best team. That was the idea because that's a constant thing. The next best, the next best. We can beat you, we can beat you. Be the best. You are the one everybody wants to beat. I love that. That's net spend and stuff like this I was never too worried about. We had all these conversations. I was happy with how it was. I couldn't You don't have discussions with people.

I cannot decide how much money we spend. It's just not possible. Aner Slot cannot decide how much money Liverpool spend. That's how it is. There are other people who decide that. If you have the money, then you spend for really good players what Liverpool did this year. I think it was the right thing to do. I'm pretty sure one specific moment changed the whole transfer window. That was the saddest day of last year. How do you replace somebody like Jogu? It's not about the player itself, it's about the guy he was. He was good with absolutely everybody. Absolutely everybody. He arrived, he had no real... I think he was a bit surprised that We approached him, we asked for him, then he came, and then he delivered from day one. I remember still when I saw him the first time playing for Wolves, I thought, What's that? When I went to the... You always hear these stories when people tell me, and it's true that Mo Salah, they had to convince me and stuff like that. He's not convinced that I take him, but it was like, there were other players as well, and Mo was one of the others, and we decided altogether for Mo, but it's fine.

But this, nobody came to me and told me, Come on, let's have a look at Diogo Jota. I saw him and I said, Please give me more material, I have to see him. He excelled all the expectations as a guy, super smart, super teammate. Now, he sits in a dressing room, and I cannot imagine right now the dressing room without him being there. It's so hard. I still cannot speak properly about it. It's really like that. It was an incredible shock. That's for the boys as well. We could think we don't speak about it because otherwise, some bad journalists make a story of it, what I said about him and what it means. Nobody at Liverpool will ever use it as an excuse. But it is the situation. You walk every day in this room where he was omnipresent. Can you imagine? To talk about him, he was so close with James Milner. They are not the same age group. They are nothing It's the same. It's just he was so... But on the other side, very close with Costa Simica. That's like moon and Mars. That was him. Dealing with that on a personal level, not easy.

It's impossible. Now, as a club, take all the emotional stuff out and think, How do we replace him? You have to think about that. Wow, that's difficult. Impossible, I would say. Now, we charge a transfer window where they buy the players. That was not the plan, I'm pretty sure. The two that he had to get replaced.

Do you remember where you were when you heard the news?

Yeah. I got a message in the morning, a boss said, I have bad news. Then I got a message from a friend from Liverpool. I couldn't believe it. It was not It's possible. I heard it and I know what it means, but I couldn't believe it. The whole story, I saw all the pictures, obviously, from the wedding and all the boys were there and stuff like that. It was only before that. I know exactly where I was. I was exactly how long I sat there without speaking a word. It is a family member. It is exactly like that. Look, it's really like that. It's an example for the things you have to deal with without knowing at all. You cannot be prepared to deal with things like that. Today, we talk about the trends of the Internet, if you wanted to have Liverpool, that would have looked completely different. You have to sort the things. You never expect it, yet you have to think about Everybody wanted this boy to play the next 10 years at Liverpool. All-around player, all positions, can play, football smart.

On July the third, 2025, Diego was killed in a car crash alongside his brother in Spain. I think just before then, he had got married to his partner, and he had several beautiful children. He said, Of you, the first time you and him met, he just felt your presence. He said, I think that's one of his main characteristics, the way you can just feel him only with his presence. And Diego went on to be incredibly successful under your leadership at Liverpool.

Yeah. It's true. Yeah, same. I could say the same. I could say the same about him. I was as impressed with his presence. Very special, very special young man, I have to How much of a role does a manager like you play in the transfer window?

This is something that's always speculated by the fans.

Do you remember the first when I came and they told me about a transfer committee? I never had. They told me that the journalists asked me because they implemented a transfer committee because they didn't want to have the manager's debt. Decisive in a transfer window, obviously, before me, there were some issues. Is there no problem with that? I can discuss with everyone. As long as no player signs for the club, I don't want. I'm used to not getting all the players I want. That's completely normal. It's not up to the coaches. We say we need one that player and I say, Yeah, it's too expensive. They can ask again, Sorry, can we make it happen? Knowing they all try absolutely everything to get the right price and get the player in, you cannot do anything with that. That anybody in a club would bring in a player you don't agree on, that's not possible. But it's very, very It's very normal in a football call manager of life, that you don't get all the players you want. So no problem with that. As long as the transfer window is open, you try to create, build the best possible squad.

On the day after the transfer window, you have the best possible squad, whichever transfers you made, and that's the way you go into the rest of the season.

Michael Edwards left during your tenure. He was one of the key people that was responsible for looking for players and signing them, and he's back now.

First and foremost, I don't want to say anything because we have a really good relationship. Michael Edwards is absolutely great in what he's doing, but it was not on one day his job alone to bring in players. There were a lot of other, Julian Ward, Ian Graham, so many people, they were involved in a Berry Hunter, all these things, we were involved in these things. It was a process. We were really close together. It's not one sitting there and being the genius and having producing ideas and everything. Oh my God, he's available. I didn't even know him. We know football players. It's like negotiating, finding the right moment to sell, finding the right moment to buy. That's a sporting director's job, what he was before. Now, I don't even know exactly the role.

Something in the holding company across the board.

Richard Hughes is now there doing an incredible job. So this company, it's all in the Ida world. People from outside are idolizing. Sometimes people like that, definitely some of them with me, may they do with Michael, but Michael never did a job alone. I never did the job alone. It was always like a really good... They'd work together just really well. They didn't have a lot of disagreements where you think, where is that coming from? Why you want him? It's a process. A football team is an open book. Everybody can read it every day. So if you want to add something, it should not be a surprise to everybody. They think, Where's that idea coming from? You think we need a left-back? Why? We have already four. That doesn't happen. You are. It's a work on purpose all the time during a season, but the transfer windows, it clashs, obviously. English people in professional football enjoy D-day a bit more than probably in other countries. Trees. I didn't get that to a full extent, but I learned a lot about the excitement of a good transfer window.

Did you always get on with them?

Yeah, I would say 100%, and Michael definitely, and Richard, I don't know. We spoke quite a few times after I left, so I like him. I think they did an incredible job, honestly.

Because you became bigger than the coach. You became such a huge... I mean, you still are such a huge figure in the city. My assistant who's been with me, my PA, has been with me for 10 years. She's from Liverpool, and I'm probably going to embarrass her now. But you're like the king to her. Not even in Liverpool, you're the king globally. That's what he did that see. Exactly. If I was a Michael Edwards or someone else at the club and I was trying to... You had ultimate power. Kind of like Sir Alex Ferguson. He was Everything. He's on the stadium, he is the club. I always wondered how anyone would be able to overturn your opinion or argue with you when you are the city. You're like, you're the great Jürgen Klopp.

But that's the outside world. Come on, I'm not an idiot. I don't sit there. I always said, I need other people to understand things. It's like my own opinion. I know already. I know. The more I get up, I know my opinion. So come on, how can you get a better view on it, on things? That's how it is. It's just by discussing with people. Yes, the final decision I have to make, and I have no problem with that. But for that, I need all people being really involved. If you want to have an argument, have an argument. In the end, I will make the decision. Absolutely no problem. Did we have an argument? Maybe, yes, I don't remember them. But it's not important because it's just in the end, it's about the outcome. It's about what is best for the club. I never had a problem with that. I never thought they all have to please me. I realized how famous I am after I left Liverpool. I have no clue. I was never in Liverpool out there. On the bus, it's normal that the people cheer because everybody is there, they're for everybody.

I realized how good I was as a coach since I'm not in the job anymore. Because I thought, what I can do, everybody can do. I realized, maybe not. It's 100% the truth because in the job, you just try to You sort every day the things in front of you. That's what you try.

Can I ask you about Nunez? He didn't seem very happy on your last day.

Darwin.

Darwin, yeah.

We had an absolutely good relationship, as good as it can be, with a striker who is not scoring as often as he wants, as the people want, and as I think he could have, and with a striker who didn't play as often as definitely he wants. So how can you have a fantastic relationship I didn't see that picture, I heard about it. If he would have stand there and be the number one and jumping after me, crying his eyes out and hugging me for 10 minutes, I would have, Okay, what's going on here? It's a completely normal situation. My first concern cannot be to please everybody. It's just not possible. It's not possible in that job. You have easy... The first problem starts with 25 players, 11 starting positions. Sorry, more players are not happy than you make happy. That's already where it starts, the problem. Now, you have to get through this. I'm pretty sure he had super moments at Liverpool. We had super moments together. Then my last day, if I would have been him, I would have thought as well, Okay, come on, the next one is a new chance for me.

Because players do that. If it goes really well for them, it's not that they think thanks to the coach. If it's not going well, they think, It's okay. He doesn't bring me often enough, it's not my fault, all this. We are humans, we are all the same. So it's not that they are special in that moment. Some of them think, I have to do more. I have to do more for the week one, week two, week three, and everything. Now, I did three weeks more. It's still not picking me. It's a bit... You cannot have always harmony and flowers and all these things. That's a competitor It's a competitive environment and you need to perform to get what you think you deserve.

When did you decide that you wanted to sign Darwin? How did that decide?

We decided exactly like before. We decided it all together in We were involved in that process. Yes, that's how it is nowadays. We would have loved to sign him for lesser money, of course. But it wasn't at the moment not possible. We needed a striker. We wanted to have an extra We had an extra option for a striker. We had Bobby always, the best false nine in the world. Now we needed somebody with a bit more speed and stuff like this. We need to have the action. It's Moh and Sadio. I'm not even sure if Sadio was still there. Probably not.

Sadio went that year.

Yeah, I think Sadia went that year. We had to change as well. We had Luis Dias great, Cody Gakbu great. What player we don't have, I thought Cody can play a little bit like Bobby, good football on the side, but feels much better on the wing, all these things. Yeah, of course, we all signed him together. No problem to admit that it maybe didn't work out as good as it could, but without Darwin, so many Things wouldn't have happened. The biggest comeback of all times at Newcastle, for example. I love that day. I love that day.

That fucking game. We came on.

Yeah.

Just give me 15 seconds to explain you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't have a perfect plan. They just take the first step and then the next, and then they keep going. They stay obsessed and they stay consistent. And StanStorm, a platform I co-own and one of our sponsors, is the best first step to help turn your knowledge into income. It only takes a couple of minutes to launch your business and start selling digital products, coaching, memberships, or communities online without any tech headaches or endless setup. Thousands of entrepreneurs, creators, and risk-takers use Stan take control of their future. Because Stan is for entrepreneurs, for those willing to put in the work and bet on themselves. If you're ready to start building, join us. Launch your business today with a free 14-day trial at stevenbartlet. Stan. Store. We launched these conversation cards and they sold out. We launched them again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again. Because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. We've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts.

Every single time a guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in the diary. I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the world, and they've left all of these questions in the diary. I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the depth, one being a starter question. Level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question that builds even more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real-time. If you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go to thediary. Com or look at the link in the description below. Why did you leave Liverpool? I watched your videos announcing your departure so many times, and I was almost trying to read between the lines.

Oh.

I was trying to read between the lines. Tell me what you read. Because you talk about just the energy, not having the energy for it. That's how I was interpreting it. You sat down with your board, your board talked about plans for next year, and you realized in that moment that you didn't have the energy to rebuild and go again, et cetera.

No, not to rebuild. We didn't have to rebuild. I know that the team is a good team. My expectation of myself is I'm the energy giver to everybody in this environment. That's what I bought my way. If somebody has struggled, come on, you can have my money, don't need it, let's go. I have to Be on top of, absolute top of my game to be the guy who deserves to be the Liverpool manager. That's what I said when I said, In the day when I feel, I don't know that anymore, then I don't. It's not that I say, Okay, let's wait until everybody sees it, and then they can give him a sec, and all these things. I cannot do it like that, not after the time we had together. I realized I don't want to be there after all the time we had together. I don't want to be the guy. I don't want to go on tour to USA. Why? Because I loved it every day. It's then you realize, I need a break, whatever. I need to have something else. You cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, Ladies and gentlemen, give me a year, see you later.

It's just not like that. I really think we did what we had to do to say what we felt and thought in that moment. It was exactly like that. I didn't have the energy to think about what's next. I didn't want to think about what's next. I just wanted to go. I was happy with finishing the season, but then don't ask me, What can we do here? What can we do there? It was all my responsibility for all the time because, yes, I don't decide money, but all the rest, it was in my hands from a specific moment on. Covid kicked in, no sporting director. Michael came after I left. He was not there anymore. It was not because we had a or whatever, not at all. It was just they wanted to find a leader for the pact and found it with Michael and Richard and Arne obviously now working really close together. So that was the decision. But there was a time There was no Richard, no Michael, no Julian Ward. So it was just me sitting there on top of all the things, and we had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well.

It was an intense time.

It wasn't a structure around you in that regard.

Covid changed a lot. People didn't fly as much anymore. The owners didn't come that often over. It was like budget calls were on the phone, more or less. We brought in Jörg Schmatke at the German's, because we didn't have a sporting director at the time, in fact. Julian came back, but then, I don't even know exactly why he left again. So These things that just happened. The only guys who were always there were we, the coaches and the football team. So they were just the normal stuff over a day.

So he was doing the Sporting Director stuff?

Yeah, us and together in that one window with, I think it was with Jörg Schmatke, the German guy we brought over. I don't even know if Julian Ward was still there, the lawyers, the scouts.

Do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? Is that within the realm of possibilities?

I said I will never coach a different team in England. So that means if then it's Liverpool. So, yeah, theoretically, it's possible.

What would it take, theoretically, for you to want to do that, psychologically?

I don't even know exactly. I love what I do right now. I don't I miss coaching. I don't. I mean, I do coach, but just different, not players. I don't miss it. I don't miss standing in the rain two and a half, three hours. I don't miss going to press conference four times, three times a week, having 10, 12 interviews a week. I don't miss that. I don't. I don't miss being in the dressing room, in a sense of that I didn't have it often enough. I coached 1,080-something games. I was in a dressing room very often, and I don't want to die in a dressing room just Because it's so nice, it smells. It's these things. But there might be something, I'm 58, that's from your perspective, old. From other perspectives, from the other side, it's not that old. That means I could make the decision in a few years. I don't know. Do I have to make the decision today? I will not coach again. But thank God, I don't have to do that. I can just see what the future brings. But now I'm involved in a project I really love, and I love the people I'm working together with, and the clubs we are responsible for, and the countries the clubs are in.

So I like doing what I'm doing right now. In my mind, only if I'm focused 100% on it, I can do it really good. That's what I always wanted to do.

Those are the things you don't miss. What do you miss?

Sometimes people. I miss people. I don't miss the dressing room as a dressing room, but sitting there in the restaurant with the players and having a nice chat, that it's nice. It was always nice when they were just in a good mood. We won a lot of games. There was Often a very good mood in the building. Standing there, hearing them laugh. I still have Virgil's laugh in my ear, for example. Yes, this part of the job is obviously But that's for these players, which I had the last time. It's now, do I miss it in general with football players? Not right now. It's not like that. But there's really not a lot, to be honest, what I miss because I'm still In the business I know most about. So the football part, I don't miss because I have it. The only thing is, I don't have to be outside. I'm not the guy in the chair before a game and stuff like this. Honestly, that's probably the best example. I don't miss anything. That's how it is.

When I look at your career, mine's Dortmund, Liverpool, you seem to always be successful successful. It's extremely rare. It's extremely rare. You seem to always succeed with a lot of passion and all those things. But my question is, I think about the audience we have, which are often business people, leaders, CEOs. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that is central to your idea of getting the best out of a group of people? We talked about being a bespoke leader, being the jigsaw piece you need to be to get the best out of a person. We talked about giving everything. Is there anything else that's really central to your philosophy of leadership and management that you think is important that we haven't touched upon yet, that young coaches might be able to still-Create the best team possible.

What I mean in the understanding of a team. Really, there must be a reason This is not why this team wins and not the other team, because there are other teams out there. They try absolutely everything. So don't waste time with walking next to each other, not knowing anything about each other, not being bothered about the problems of each other, not being interested about each other. No, I I want to grow together. It was my job to help them to grow, to create situations where they could do that, to make sure. If I had to be harsh to all of them, that they found a way to get together, I did that. It was not what I said. It was what they needed to understand why we are a very special team in a very hard and difficult competition. But we have to find a reason why we deserve it more than others. Yes, that's what I say, what you have to do. That's what I People want to convince today with knowledge. They want to say, I know everything about that. I can explain it to you, sir. But in the end, that's one thing, and other people can know as well.

It's about how close can we really grow together to go out there and smash whatever out of them. That's the thing, what I wanted to or what I always did. It was always clear for us, we would walk I don't know. We'll go through fire. I'm not sure if you say that, but we really would do absolutely everything. Without me telling every day to find a way to grow as much together, that was obvious.

How do I get people to walk through fire? You're talking about making sure the bonds amongst themselves are strong. I heard stories of you making sure everybody knew everybody's name when you first arrived and things like that.

I'd like players, it was staff.

The staff names, et cetera. What were you doing to get people to walk through fire?

That's exactly it. That's a good question. There's no answer for the question because it would mean you say one thing and everybody runs. That's not like that. You have to create a culture, an environment, a situation, a vibe where everybody realized This is special. The underlying message is this is special, and now let's go for it. This is worth it. This means really more to all of us that we really can fight more for it.

What is special?

The togetherness, the way we had... The way we, and people can say that's in our club the same, but the way we interacted in the training ground with the kitchen staff, with the respect we showed every day with the Kidman, with the gardeners, with all the people there, that was, for me, most important because you just realized that the respect you show is the respect you get. You cannot show respect, you don't deserve any. That's how it is. It's not a lesson in the sense of that I tell you Wait, sit here. You have to respect the gardener, and then the other people will respect you as well. It's that you don't do it like that. It's just you learn that. Show respect, you get respect. Don't show respect, you don't deserve it. So all these little things over there, that's not a big thing. It's not every day I go for them and tell them, Why is this different? Why is that different? The way you deal with situations, we found a way for us that the most important information about the game was what I said, and not what was in the media, not what was in social media.

When I said it was good, it was good. There were still all the things out there were written, but they were not important anymore. When I said it was not good, then could they write, Yeah, but you won 3–0. Then we found a way We talked about it and worked on it. We created our own world in that time, which was more important than the outside world.

How is not being respectful to the Gardener going to lose you the Champions League? What is the through line?

I believe just in if you cannot do that, if you don't appreciate what other people do, then you can't appreciate what your teammate is doing. If you don't, that's just a little sign. It's not that, of course, there's not a direct impact from here to there. But in the end, I'm pretty sure if you would really have a brief look at it in one or two situations, it doesn't look like a proper fella. And then you go back to the beginning, you would say, Yeah, because it isn't.

I can tell you. I'm fascinated by this point because when I was at Old Trafford and the ladies who serve the food in the boxes and lounges, when I would ask them what was different after Fergie left, the thing they kept saying to me was, Oh, it's just so different around here. I'd say, explain to me how. They'd go, I don't know. Is Alex focussing just knew our names? That's what they would say. It's a strange thing to hear that the only symptom that some of the staff in the stadium could point at was just the new leadership don't know our names.

Yeah, but this is obviously not the answer to the Man United problems. That's just the situation with the ladies or whoever working in that area. But it shows if that doesn't, then you don't know, theoretically, their names. What it shows is the togetherness is not there anymore. It starts already with, Alex was just different. And then you, Yeah, but not on day one. But after 23 years, of course, he was different. Of course, he knew your name. He saw you growing up. How can you compare that This was under Edward Wood, just for the context.

This wasn't under any of Amrim. This was before then, a couple of years ago. I just always found that, for me, that as a business leader, became a really interesting reference point because as you said, it's just a downstream symptom of something where the club has gone from feeling like a family and special and close and tight and these values to the decay of the values. It's all the way down to the stream at the bottom.

But this is a It's a generation discussion, isn't it? In the past, again, I'm not that old that I say in the past everything was better, for sure not, but we are differently raised. That's how it is. I came home, I walked home in a 1,200 people village. I had a 400-metre walk from the bus station to my home. I walked home. Obviously, a lady crossed my way. I can't remember it. I arrived at home after 200 meters, more meters, and then My mom said, Why you didn't say hello to Mr. So and so? What? Does that help me in life? I'm not sure. It's just how you get ready. I didn't run back and say, Sorry, Hello. But next time, believe me, it leaded to in my life, where a lot of people recognize me, it's for me difficult not to say hello to people because of that. But I start obviously getting attention. If I can get through something, now I would Hello, that doesn't work properly for me anymore, but it's still in me. One thing is the things we read, the other thing is the things we feel, the other thing is how we get treated.

We all are the result of a lot of things, what happened to us. And as long as we are together, let's make sure that we influence each other as positive as somehow possible. And let's see where it leads us to. That's the idea I have.

A lot of managers or leaders or CEOs would focus on tactics and strategy first and foremost, and as you say, the information and all those things. But it appears that you focus somewhere else.

Not first. Same time. It's not first. It's not same time. It's same time. I, 24 hours a day, 2 hours time for training. There's not a lot more you can do. Maybe you have in the preseason, definitely more another session, 2 hours, 4 hours, 20 hours left, 7, 8 hours sleep, 12 more hours. Welcome. What can we do with that? That's become the best group we can be. That's what I'm 100% interested in, definitely.

The best group we can be. That's those relationships, those values. Yeah. Were there any particular changes you made to how the team interacted with each other? I know that the INIOS guys told me at Manchester United, they've changed the canteens so that people don't sit on separate tables now and the team are together when they eat. Just small things like this that some people might think are inconsequential. Are there any things that you changed? Any rules or policies?

I don't like these obvious things too much. If you don't like each other, the size of the table makes no difference, to be honest. I don't say that's not important. I don't see the real effect. I want to reach it in a different way. I want to introduce them to each other in a specific way on the pitch, by the way. That's where it starts because we are a football team. We are not a community and just sit there and drink tea and biscuits. It's a real competitive environment and it's all to get the best out of the boys on the football pitch. Rules, pitch, rules, dressing room. But then there are so many things, left and right of the rules, there are so many things you can do together. There's so much to talk about, so much to know about. That's what life is. Otherwise, we just live next to each other, and we don't benefit from each other. That makes no sense. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but my general understanding from football team is to become the best football team you can be. This is as important as tactics, as important as tactics.

We have the best tactic. The guys don't respect, don't like each other. Nobody will see them ever. We have the worst tactics, but they love each other. Boy, they still can win. That's possible. I'll World, great team, good coach. You have a good chance to be successful.

I have two pictures that we haven't shown yet, but this particular picture is of Alisabeth.

Yeah, Mama.

Your Mama. Yeah.

2011, we became champion with Dortmund. My home club, SV Klaaten, invited me to build a stage My elder sister wrote a poem. My mom couldn't have been prouder, obviously. That day, I saw my teammates from my first football team, they were all there. Nobody would have thought that somebody from there would arrive where I was there. Yeah, great day. Lisbeth was a really nice woman, I have to say.

She She passed away in 2021 after falling ill. Because of everything that was going on at the time with the pandemic, you weren't able to attend her funeral because of the travel restrictions and all those kinds of things. She did get to see your success.

She got to see- That's a big difference. I was not in a funeral, and that was the... Sounds crazy. The online funeral was one of the saddest things I experienced in my life. But I made it happen, at That was good that we could see it, that we could be part of it, we couldn't be there. My mom, in the end, had dementia, so it's not that she would have known that I was not there when she was lying there. That's not a nice thing, but she saw the majority of my working life, if you want. My dad didn't see my coaching life, so there's Nothing is perfect. But mom was super happy, was a very happy lady until she could remember us and see us and recognize us. The time when she couldn't do that anymore, was not too long. But I can't wait for the day when somebody finds a solution for these diseases. Because in your age, obviously, you don't think about it, but if you come older, they think, Who dies today? Just of a heart attack and not by having already dementia or stuff like this and don't recognize the kids anymore and stuff like this.

You don't want that. You just can get through this by ignoring the fact and hoping that science will find a way until we get there.

She started to lose her memories of her family because of dementia.

Yeah. Like the normal thing on phone, she didn't know, didn't recognize my voice first. This is a strange, strange disease or whatever, however you call it. It closed so many doors and opens others. So long-time memory, incredible. She recognized ladies in the street. They were together in primary school, stuff like this, but didn't know who we were. Just these things. It's not a competition of things you forget or whatever. There are a lot of things you forget, especially for the people. It was my sister who took care of her, obviously. That's not nice. If she don't recognize you, who are you? Bawa, go away. These things.

How is that to deal with as a family member when someone you love, a parent, can no longer recognize who you are? It sounds like a grief. It was a heartbreak.

Yeah, I think, obviously, my sisters were around, so for them, it's harder, of course, because they were around. For me, it was not a problem at all because I knew she loved me more than her in life. In a moment, she can recognize me anymore. It was not a problem for me. I just felt for her that it's really so hard. Must be so hard if you have bright moments where, I know, Oh, my God, you are here. What are you doing here? And then, go again. It's really not nice. I really, truly hope that we find medication for that. I think science is in a good way, but still a long way to go. But thanks That's what it's a picture. I have it on my phone somewhere, but I don't have it as a... Yeah, thank you very much.

Faith is a big part of your life as well, your belief in God. Yeah. From what I understood, that's not always been the case. When you were a younger man, you Are you 100% religious in the same way that you are now. Is that accurate?

I wouldn't even say I'm religious, I believe. But I don't know 100% what religious means, to be 100% honest. But this lady, my mom, prayed every night before going to bed. But the problem was that the one thing we prayed, the other thing she said, because she couldn't be hard with me. She just had no weapons. The only thing she could say, Don't forget, if you do that again, I will have to tell the dad at the weekend when he's coming back. It was like the only threat she had, the only weapon she carried around. I obviously was smart enough to realize that whatever I did, she never told my dad. From time that I went to church, I had a short spell where I thought, because Sunday morning church was when I played games, I have to go to church, I cannot play football anymore, but that lasted exactly one game. So one Sunday, I thought, God cannot be that hard. He cannot I do not think that I have to go to church when I love football so much. It can't be like that. And he isn't, I'm pretty sure. I found my way.

For me, it's to live together, we have to make sure that we don't think the only thing that is interesting is my own wellbeing. We have to make sure that we understand being alone in a good position doesn't help. Yes, it's completely normal that we all try to get as far as we can in our career, in our life, and all these things. But it's really important that we make sure that we really try to work properly together, to live properly together, and all these things. For me, this is my faith. This understanding is based on my faith and common sense, obviously. That's the way I believe. I think that's the best thing you can say about religion when it's like that, that it keeps people in a good place. If religion can't do that, then that's not the right religion for me. It's really about that. We have to be tolerant. We have to. It's no problem. It's a wonderful planet. It's a wonderful world we are living in. But it's not for one or two. It's for all of us, and we have to make sure that that works out. I think the right faith can help you with that.

But I don't know what is the right faith. I only know what is for me. For me, it's the right thing to do, and I never doubted it, to be honest. With all the information you get, in life, God is real for me and Jesus, of course.

What goals have you got left to accomplish, Jürgen? What is left on your list, if anything, at all? Because you're right, you're probably halfway through your life, the way things are going in terms of people, the life expectancy increasing.

Halfway through, 116. We have the next podcast. I want to travel. That's what we're doing. Started now. I want to be together with Ula as much as I can, but not that much that she or I don't want to be around each other anymore because I really think you see people and think, What is your husband doing? Oh, is he at home? Oh, God. No, I'm not that. But I'm very busy, so I'm a lot away, so that's fine. But I want to spend time with her, with the kids, with the grandkids. I don't have this ambition. I want to do really well for Red Bull, really well. I feel already responsible for all the people I work together with. That's a very interesting It's a interesting thing for me. I feel so quick, really responsible, but I do. I want to do it as good as we can, have the best time possible. Let's see what happens then. But on a private basis, I can tell you, with all the things happening around, stay healthy and enjoy this part of life because you know now most things happened and most things were really good.

There was another time when you were not sure where you want to go, what's possible, how safe you will be, and all these things. Where will you live in the future? So I know where we will live. I know how things worked out. That's really good. I'm not that old that I cannot move. So move and try and do sports and travel and all these things. So I'm more than happy with the things, how they went out, how they happened. I'm really happy. I'm surprised how my career was. I never thought that, and you cannot plan it and stuff like this. I'm super happy with my private life, how it is, super happy with the missus, super happy with the kids, super happy with the grandkids. It's all really good. What can you want more, really, without sounding ridiculous, that you think, Oh, you always live on that? The rest is job, and the job I always wanted to do as somehow possible. That's still the case. Is he a Man United then?

I'm just saying, I don't know, if you ever want a job at a football club, Manchester United would... Yeah.

After all the time we spent together, you want to tell me that. Yeah.

But it's really interesting to me because I think there's always an assumption that people want to continue to...

I don't understand that. Do the same because that's what you are good at. I know I'm good as a manager. I know. Why should I? I don't have to prove that. Not even to me, I have to prove that. I can raise my hand and tomorrow I can coach X, Y, and Z clubs who are happy now with SACREM manager, and I don't want that. But to be my best friend, that might come back that I say, Okay, I'm ready. That might. I don't know today, but in this moment, it's not that I cannot do what I do while thinking with one leg being still there. I was never like that. I never looked right or left when I was at Mainz. I could have changed the club every year for the first seven. It was so obvious that something is going on there, pretty special. The clubs were, Oh, we want to have him. I never thought a second that I want to go there. I wanted to stay at Mainz to to do what we do and to learn what I thought I have to learn. Same at Dortmund, same at Liverpool, until I thought, It's not right.

If that comes again, let's see what we will do. That's what the decision I wanted. I didn't want to make the job until I barely can move, I barely can travel, I barely... He says, Can you help me? I didn't want to do that. Here, we're sitting, and yes, I'm 25 years older than you, but we both could probably run around the corner now, and it would not be the biggest difference. You're in great shape. Yeah, that's it, because I train. That's how it is. But I never did while I was a manager. That's the next thing. I just grew more and more and more, and now we have time for that as well. It's good how it is.

Well, even as a United fan, you brought so much to the Premier League that it was weirdly sad, also very happy, when you decided that you were going to leave. I felt two feelings at the same time. I felt very, very happy that this Liverpool era, in my view, was over because I thought, there's no way you leaving. You're more than just a manager. You're the spirit of the city. You're the spirit of the fan base. You actually personify the Liverpool fan base, in my mind, extremely passionate, all in togetherness. As your former, I think he was your chairman or owner of mind said, you did. You brought the team together, you then brought the city together, and that had a profound impact both on Liverpool, but also on the Premier League and on my enjoyment my misery as a rival fan. That's a really, really remarkable thing. You've also inspired me as a lot on a personal level as a leader. Just about everything you said there about how important it is to focus equally on the people and the team and the togetherness and not just on the tactics and the strategy and how passion can be a wonderful accelerant for performance and for feeling like this is special.

That's something that I think you've personified as a leader. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. Oh, it's for me now, the message.

Yes.

Question that's been left for you. As you look back on your career, is there a particular moment, a particular conversation, a particular day that if you could, you would go back and change or say something you wish you had said?

Honestly, the problem is I would probably would say no. I wouldn't go back and try to change it because it wouldn't have a big impact. The situations we had, the big situations I could influence with the things I said, the specific moments which were then decisive, you just stand there and watch Agoero in or not in. We had the same problem with United. We were with things that he scored, the ball goes in or the ball is over the line for 11 minutes or not. That has nothing to do with what I say. Would I wish if I could go there and give it a little push Yes. Would I wish James Madison would block the shot of Vincent Compagnie that he cannot score the goal against Leicester? Yes, but it had nothing to do with what I said. The things I said, I said in the moment for the right reasons. Sometimes they had the impact I wished and wanted, and sometimes not. Yeah, I had to accept that.

That was the other thing that Jamie Carriker asked. He said, When you see Klopp, ask him how he feels about his former assistant manager, Pep Lingers, going and working at Manchester City.

Absolutely. No problem. I like it. I like both Peps. That's how it is. No problem with that. I worked together with Pep Lienders. He was an inspiration for me every day when we worked together. Absolutely every day, I learned a lot from him. And Pep Gardeola, I couldn't respect a manager more. When they asked me a bit, What do you think? Can we? Of course you can. Pep Lienders said, Come on, find a guy who worked together with Pep Lienders. I mean, Pep and Jürgen Klopp. I would read a book. Pep knew exactly what he was looking for. He wanted exactly this spark fire from... And Pep has that. Pep Lijn has that. He's an extreme well of energy. I'm happy for them both.

We're playing you guys this week, this weekend on Sunday. What? Manchester United Liverpool. Manchester United Liverpool this Sunday. You didn't know? It's at Anfield. It's a Premier League. Davy, that's crazy that you don't know. But hopefully, this will come out just after that. So I'm hoping that's four losses.

Oh, we come after that?

Yeah.

When do we get on?

Hopefully the day after, but we'll see. So hopefully this is Liverpool's fourth loss in a row, and the fan base are growing increasingly impatient and they're annoyed, and Amrim has now won another game in a row. This conversation will come out straight after.

Now, we're playing in Anfield. Yeah. Good luck. They have to strike back. That's never a good situation. The two days ago, I just in the morning, I wake up pretty early in the morning, so I throw on YouTube and have a look, and it shows me behind the scenes footage from the 7-0.

The 7-0? Oh, gosh.

Yeah, and I never saw that. I never saw it. It's like the 7-0, obviously. I know the goals and stuff, but it's a camera different. It's in the stands. It's really good. Okay, fine. I watched it, 19 minutes. Really good. So all the goals again. You see players in the dressing room, all the way to the dressing room. Really good. The next day, I open, and because you know how it is with the algorithm, now I see the 5-0 at Manchester. I watched that. And today, I come here and had no clue that you are a Manchester United fan. I was really well-prepared for that talk, I have to say. Without knowing. Yeah. Damn. Yeah.

Thank you so much, Jürgen. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being an inspiration to me. But also thank you for all that you brought to the Northwest and to Liverpool.

Sure. Thanks. You're welcome. It was my pleasure.

Honestly, thank you so much. I've learned so much from you as a leader and also I was a man. In the lead up to this, I spoke to so many people around you that have worked with you. I contacted Jordan Henderson. I spoke to Hariger, who knows you through various people. I think he managed him for one game, he said. Yeah, in Australia. In the Australia game. They all said the same thing. They all said that you're the same man on and off the camera. You're a person that brings people together. You're extremely likable, but you have high standards and are an incredibly passionate person. The narrative was consistently, he is the same man on and off camera, which is a credit to yourself. No wonder why people were willing to walk through fire with you. It's incredible what you've accomplished. I hope, selfishly as a football fan, I hope we see you back in the game at some point. Maybe Real Madrid or Manchester, whatever.

You never know. You never know.

Thank you so much.