Transcript of White Sands: Addiction Recovery Redefined

What do you like most about working with White Sands, man?

I think the company culture, I think, empower their employees. It's a well-oiled machine. They have systems in place for certain things that other places don't have, and it's just a great setup, and there's great structure. Most of the therapists here have been here for an extended tenure, which says a lot. Lindsay Henry is the VP of Clinical Services at White Sands, and she's phenomenal what she does has a grasp on everything that happens here. All of her therapists are tenured by at least 5, 6, 7, somewhere here, 11 years. Once you have someone here that knows the program, knows how things work, clients get better experiences at that point.

I think that's your guy as a secret sauce. Everybody's been amazing. Everybody's welcoming, and I wasn't expecting it.

That's pretty much how it's like for the patients to come in. They're met with love, letting them know, Hey, listen, you're not alone. There is help, and just grab our hand in a sense. Let us take you through this journey.

What's up, everybody? Got a special one for you today. I'm here on site at White Sands Treatment Center in Fort Myers, Florida. They are are powered by sponsors. I just want to say thank you again, White Sands, for one heck of a partnership and collaboration. We're out there helping people get better, helping people get healthy, and living better lives. So today, I have with me someone that I go way back with, Stephen Sunquist. Man, it's so good to see you. Welcome to the show.

Appreciate you having me on, man. We finally did it.

Dude, we've talked about it, man. We've talked It's about it ad nauseam, and finally, we found a way. And so for the viewers, you want to work with someone, you want to do some cool stuff, wait for the right moment because if you're paying attention, it'll sneak up and bite you right in the ass. And here we are, man. This is cool, dude. I love it, man. So every Now and again, I get to have conversations with people that I go way back with. It's always fun, man, because the energy is different. You know where I was in 2008 or '09? I was living with my mom there. I lost prior to the mortgage meltdown. You were dating my sister, and that's how we met, and here we are. Dude, we had an amazing tour of the facility prior to us sitting down here today and shooting this episode. What I found most amazing, you're driving by on Colonial Road, you see this big building, White Sands Treatment Center. It's like you see this building that we're in. I'm like, Oh, okay, that's all it is, huh? But But what this place actually is, there's nine model homes back there that you can't even see from the street.

It's like these individuals that get to come to this treatment center and recover and heal and get healthy, they're living an actual life where they can make coffee in their house. They have a bedroom. They can do their laundry in there. There's a full-scale cafeteria right over here to my right. You walk through those doors. It's a badass gym that they can go and move their body. So they're working on their mental, spiritual, and physical health. I mean, this place is amazing, man.

Yeah, it's definitely a top option, I'd say, based on my experience of what I've seen working in this space after finding myself through recovery. It's a safe place. Everybody really cares here, and they go the extra mile. The clinical is above average. I'll tell you that, man. There's a lot of great things White Sands has to offer the community for sure.

I walked in here, man, and a lot of times when you walk in a place and you got cameras showing up, people look at you sideways like, Who the hell is this guy? And what are we doing here? Everybody here, I got to tell you, man, from everybody here on site with Mark, you, Mike, and then even Casey over there on the other Coast. I wish she was able to be here today. I was really looking forward to meeting her soon, girl. You better get your butt over here. But everybody's been amazing. Everybody's welcoming, and I wasn't expecting it.

Yeah, and That's pretty much how it's like for the patients to come in, right? They're met with love from the embrace at the doors, letting them know, Hey, listen, you're not alone. There is help. Just grab our hand in a sense. Let us take you through this journey and just trust one person if it's one person.

What do you like most about working with White Sands, man?

I think the company culture. I think they empower their employees. Okay. And that's really important to someone like me. But I just think it's It's a well-oiled machine. They have systems in place for certain things that other places don't have. It's just a great setup, and there's great structure, and there's activities for people to do. They have choices. It's not like you have to go here. There are certain groups where they have the ability to pick which ones they want to do based on what they're going through.

I think it's really cool. I'm going to come back to another point in that that I want to make. But what I'm digging about this place is that you talk about structure, but we're also talking about an actual lifestyle. I've never been in recovery, and I'm grateful for that. I've done some messing up in my life, but it never turned into an addiction or a long extended lifestyle type situation. But when people think of in-treatment centers, they think of hospitaly environments, sterile environment, someone shoving pills down your throat, being mean to you. But what I've seen here is, and I alluded to it at the beginning of the episode, they have community time where they can get out there in a gazebo and sit around in a circle and have some conversation. They all eat in the cafeteria at the same time, and then go out and play cornhole and some Connect 4, get a lift in, but also not disconnect from their families and have their device time when it's approved to FaceTime their family and stay connected with the outside as much as possible. I think it's important for people to know that about this place.

Yeah. It's like a thing, right? We don't want to completely disconnect you from your lifestyle and your family and friends, but also having just that fine line with a boundary of, are you applying yourself here for the day if you did great? Here's your reward in a sense. I think it's great. I didn't have that when I was in treatment, and I definitely could have benefited from it, I think. Yeah.

So let's talk about that, if you don't mind. Okay, so I don't I remember what year was. I remember you opening up to me about it. I think it was several years ago. Years run together for me now, dude. Sometimes I don't even know what freaking month it is.

2017.

2017, okay. So not too long ago, right? What was the deal, man?

Man, it stems back to high school for me. I was a great baseball player like yourself and had a lot of potential to play at the next level and had a freak accident happen on the mound. That was my introduction of pain pills. Took them as prescribed. Essentially, when I healed from surgery, my arm wasn't nearly as strong, so I only knew myself as even the baseball player. I didn't know who I was without sports. So it was like an identity crisis thing. And I spent the next seven, eight years searching for that high that I never found. And obviously, a lot of hurt, a lot of consequences along the way. And it's just a lot of athletes go through a similar process I've experienced with working with others today. It's just some people people find their calling in a sense in life. I feel like anybody that goes through this process will have the same calling in a sense. And that's just to pay it forward, help the next person in line. That's just what I've done. I've found a great career in helping people now. It's something that found me based on my experience.

You don't find that often.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from our Powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands, Treatment centers, and the Determined Society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top-rated addiction treatment, from medical detox and inpatient care to outpatient support and long-term after-care. Their resort-style campuses, expert clinicians, and holistic programs create real lasting recovery. Together, we're committed to bringing hope, resources, and healing to those who need it most. White Sands Treatment centers. I think that when you are put in the path where you finally listen to the higher power of going in your path of where you're supposed to be, you fall into it. I fell into this. It was an accident. Now it's on purpose. But I was really bad at it for a very long time. With you, getting the healing and the treatment that you needed put you on this path to be involved in this amazing treatment center here at Whites. I I want to go back to your experience in treatment. Here's why. Because I want the listeners and the viewers to understand the difference because you alluded to it. I wish I would have had something like this in my recovery.

What does that look like on the other side of it?

Yeah, sure. For me, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is where I got sober. Do you know that? I didn't know that. Saint Christopher's Addiction Wellness.

How do you get sober in Baton Rouge, bro?

It's our connection now, man.

Come on, man.

But yeah, I just feel like Obviously, over a period of time, things can become mundane. I just looked at it for what it was. I was like, because I had been in treatment a couple of times. I'm not a one-time wonder. I had to fall in my face a couple of times to really feel it. But I feel like it gets mundane and repetitive, and you miss your family and friends. I feel like, yeah, I was able to make calls through the therapist's office once a week. But sometimes it's just nice to check in, just let someone know for where you're at, someone that knows you for where you've been. I love the concept here of how things are done. Obviously, after a certain period of time, the clients are viewed here as guests because their day's done is what Mike was talking about. I just think that's important for them to feel that because they feel that sense of responsibility to do the right thing. You're given a leash, in a sense. It's like, show us that you want this. Those are Those are the people that typically get it. For me, it was just I came down to a point where I was just like, All right, am I going to allow this stuff to consume me, or am I going to put an effort to put the action forth of just getting better and not ever having to go back into one of these places again?

That's just really what it got to for me, just being sick and tired, or being sick and tired, getting the same result every time, wondering why in a sense. But I realized I never really put forth the effort to be disciplined with my recovery, to be with other things in life. That's really where it is for me today.

It's pretty awesome because I can look back and I remember seeing on Facebook and LinkedIn, all of a sudden, you're having new spots, you're doing amazing things, talking about your recovery. I'm like, damn, man, this is brave. In your healing and in your treatment, was there any training on how to reintroduce yourself to society and be open and vulnerable about your experience?

Yeah, I think it just came down to just walking through that fear and just freeing myself from whatever I thought I was holding back. And that was the aha moment for me when I shared about some stuff that had been swept under the rug over the years and just voicing that and seeing the feedback from other people that were in the group at the time. Like, damn, thanks for sharing that, man. You helped me so much. It's just like, something clicked for me in that moment. And I was like, wow, okay, I see the importance of the power of my voice and me sharing my truth. It's just touching so many lives. That's been a constant theme for most of my sobriety.

That's good, man. I'd imagine White Sands is the same thing, right? They really prepare people to go out there and feel comfortable and not pay for the past. Because I think, look, man, let's be honest. We had an off-camera conversation just about life situations and how a lot of times people hold you hostage of who you were at that time. How is it for people coming out of white sands and even for yourself, reintroducing yourself back into society and people have that label on you? Because for me, dude, I didn't know that about you. It wasn't an overall We're getting like, this dude is addicted to medication. In my circle, I had no idea. But my long-windy question is actually pretty simple. I'm just having a hard time getting to the point, which a lot of times I do. I ramble. But it's like the people that come out, and they feel like this new lease on life, and they get back into the same circle, potentially, and the people on the outside hold their past against them. That can't be good for them.

No, I think it just comes down to where you reevaluating what's important in your life like I had to do, and I still do it every year. It's like a thing that's just become naturally. It's not serving you, unfortunately, it's not really as important in your life as it once was. And that goes for friend groups and places to hang out and just things change. And it just comes down to what is adding to your recovery? If someone's talking negatively about you all the time, and they're probably not the best for you to have in your life. So my friends groups changed over the years. Obviously, I'm not finding myself hanging out in bars anymore and things like that, but it's just things change.

So here, With some of the treatments here, there's outpatient therapy. I just want to be clear, this is just not an inpatient facility where you come to detox for 10 days. You can become a guest here for 30 days, and there's outpatient stuff. There's family counseling. There's a bunch of different things. Do you just prepare them for the potential? Hey, this could be imminent that you're changing friend groups and you're going to have to leave people behind.

Yeah, there's a constant redirection with that. Preparing for discharge. Obviously, there's a whole process that we do before someone is ready to discharge. We're going to make sure that they have resources lined up for them to have that support and accountability. But yeah, man, it's something that's always being addressed. It gets brought up in groups, too. They'll have process groups where everyone will give feedback around the things that they're talking about like that.

I think it's important, because when you're in treatment and you're healing, to have that open conversation about going back out there and the adjustments that you may have to make in your life. I think it's really cool for people, especially here. Again, we got a lot of video of this place, man. I can see this place as people hanging out when it's rec time. Being like, You know what? I'm really scared about this when I leave here. It could be this conversation that one person's their ability about their fears opens up everybody else to talk about it. Then all of a sudden, they become a community and support group that when they do get reintroduced back into their normal lives, they're able to call on each other, man, and go over these things.

Yeah, That was probably one of the most beneficial times, just conversing with the community and conversing with the support staff, like we were talking about out there. Those were some of the best conversations I had in treatment. Eventually, it's cool to see where the other clients or guests, they're able to hold another client accountable for where they're at. That's the coolest part about this whole thing.

Well, the thing that I really love, too, about this place is Not just the bells and whistles, man. It's the people that work here. Again, I alluded to it earlier, but most people in here that work here have gone through it. Now, everybody always says, What do I do in this world? Who am I most equipped to help? The answer always is, you're equipped to help and support the person you once were.

Exactly.

That's a mission here. You can't lead people from their hell out of their personal hell or their personal jail unless you've been through it because you don't have any sympathy. I couldn't do it, not because I wouldn't want to, but I don't have I don't have the reference. I don't have the experience in this.

Yeah, those are the things that I love to touch on, man, and talk about on platforms and stages, that vulnerability piece, man. If I didn't tell somebody, they probably wouldn't know I had been through that today. Whereas I can literally bring up the exact emotions, the exact feelings of how it feels to be stuck in that place and a slave to a substance. That's the relatability factor that sometimes can help people get through those early phases because I know that I couldn't have done it if someone else hadn't came to me and said, Hey, listen, I've been through this. I'm going to take you through this. Just trust me.

Well, I'm interested because like I said before, I've never been addicted to a substance to where it has a stranglehold on me. What goes on psychologically when you're in the middle of it, you know you need to stop because it's potentially going to ruin your life or lose your life, and then still go and like, Okay, well, last one. This is my last one. I would imagine there's a lot of that, but psychologically, what do you go through during that?

It's like a never-ending rat race, man. You can have the best intentions one day and wake up, say, You know what? I'm not going to do it today. And then an hour or two later goes by and something happens out of our control like most things are in life. Then it restarts the insanity in your head where you can't get obsession out of your head until you put one in your body. That is the stuff that people want to hear, of just how to break through that. Typically, there's never a good time that's going to align that says, Today's the day I'm going to go get help. It never happened like that for me. But I can tell you, if you're in that place, you're feeling stuck, there is a better way out. And there are people like us that are willing to help at any given moment. But it's an It's a sane cycle, man. It's just you can try to trick yourself any which way on, Okay, I'm going to use just on the weekends, or I'm going to use only on Friday. You'll never get out of it like that.

It's crazy to me because now it's different. What I mean by that is, I want everybody to hang on here. One pill can literally kill you now. 100%. Back in '17, granted, you're probably getting it or whatever, but people getting these pills on the streets, it can literally kill them. Story for you. Two years ago, it was two years in July, my former first basement at Canterbury, Evan Ames, had an injury at Chapula Junior College, where he dislocated his elbow and he was in a lot of pain. In my humble opinion, he rushed back. He should not have played that same year, and he did, and he did okay. But He came home for the summer, had his 20th birthday or something like that in June. He was going through a lot of and his prescription ran out. He went down to San Carlos, Fort Myers, got one, and there were six pills in there, and he took a quarter of one. He died. Was it your fentanyl? Oh, it was definitely fentanyl. One billion % was fentanyl. All to say, and again, there They found what was in there, and there was only a quarter of a pill missing.

He wasn't abusing it. An addict would have taken one or two. He took a quarter of it, and he had a dirty pill. It's something that I feel like it needs some major awareness because it could be one time. There's kids that are in college that are under so much stress. I just need some Adderall. They go buy Adderall, and it kills them because it's laced with a deadly dose of fentanyl. This is a big problem in our country. How do you think that... I don't want to get political, but I know there's different things going on in Texas. We're trying to keep fentanyl out of the country, and and everything like that. But man, in my day or your day, if we were doing something like that, there was no such thing.

Yeah, they're counterfeiting Xanax pills. I've even I've heard of it being laced in some marijuana for some of the adolescents to get a hold of them. It's terrible. But yeah, there's so many counterfeit pills all over the place. I've lost so many people to that stuff, too. It's just it's insane. But there's got to be something that can be done to prevent that. It is political.

It is political, right? But I mean, fuck it. Let's go there. It's like, why are we not... It's just like school shootings. Not just like it, but we're talking about two things that are very deadly. I want Navy Seals or retired veterans at every entrance of every school on the roofs. You see someone going on, it's like, boom, you're done. Why risk the life? Same thing with Fentanyl. We know it's killing people, but we're not doing anything about it. Or we may be, but it takes a while to get it out. I think now current administration is doing very focused on it. Much more, yeah. Very focused on it. But dude, it is a scary thing, man. To your point about marijuana, I was having this conversation with my wife one day. I'm like, When we were kids, if we decided to do something stupid, out behind the portables or whatever, or with your buddies at a party, which was never what I did. I was always hidden in the garage until my hand's blood. That was my excuse not to go out and do stupid shit. I was like, No, I just got to get better.

I'm not doing that. But now, you do something stupid like that, you could die. So it begs the question, that substance is readily available out on the street, but also in dispensaries. It's almost like, I would rather it, a 21-year-old kid, when he's 21, to walk into a dispensary and get it and not die. But I know we're not here promoting the legalization of marijuana. But my point is, it could save them from getting a dirty dose or a dirty dime Is that what they call it?

It's like playing Russian roulette in a sense out there with the drug dealers on the street, man. You don't know what you're going to get. I know they got these fentanyl testing kits, but how many? Are they accurate? I don't know. Who knows? I never used one, so I don't know.

Wow, man. I don't think it was even a thing back then, was it?

Fentanyl was slowly making its way towards the end of 2017. For me, there was a couple of times where I feel like there was some stuff that I had those for us, for sure.

Wow, man. Wow.

It's scary.

Yeah, it is. It's scary.

To be honest with you, I'll be real. When I'm in that place, I didn't care about living or dying. It was just about getting the next one. That's how crazy this is. Yeah, go on that because- You just get to this place where you lose all control and you need that fixed to feel like you can survive. You just don't care. Obviously, if I would have been real, I really didn't want to die at the time. But it's just the emotions and just how dead you feel inside. I didn't care at a time.

It's like, I'm going to do this, and if that's my fate, that's my fate. Then I'm out of pain, right? Yeah. Did that ever cross your mind?

Yeah, it did, but I always played it forward and thought, I like my family or my daughter now. That's a whole another ball game, but that would be tragic. I never wanted to leave my family with Thank God it never happened.

It's heavy, man. You know what I mean? Because I don't know what it's like. I know at a very small scale. I think truly there was a food addiction, but not the same. Not the same. But I can also relate to, I just need that cookie. Then I'd eat that cookie, and then I would have more and more and more. I I would binge. I would binge on it. I would imagine something like that is infinitely less serious than having to depend on a drug, a real drug that can literally take a hold of you and control your whole life. I can't even imagine because at times, I felt like I couldn't control it. Again, it was painful. It was like, you get dressed in the morning, feel right in anything. You feel horrible. I can't even imagine what it's like overcoming what you and so many people in the center are working to overcome.

Yeah, there's a lot that goes along with it. Obviously, the emotional and mental side, but the physical, your body just deteriorates. Whenever I was strung out on opiates or pain pills, man, I have lost so much weight drastically. It's just very unhealthy. That was a sign. Very, very unhealthy. You could see it. Everything within that person most of the time wants to deny that there's a problem. It's tough for a lot of men to ask for help, first of all. I feel like that's what prevented me from asking for help for so many years, although I knew I needed help. I just couldn't get the courage enough to ask for it. It wasn't until someone came along that pretty much told my story. I'm like, All right, maybe this guy does. Those are the people that I immerse myself with just to stay in the middle of it.

The weight loss, is that just because you wouldn't eat? I mean, is that what it does?

Yeah. I think for the most part, it curbs your appetite. But I think there's also some things in there that deteriorate muscle growth and stuff, too. I would imagine. I would assume, yeah.

When you were doing that, were you still lifting weights? No. You were just out.

Yeah, you were doing it. Yeah, just full-blown.

Who was the catalyst for you, man, that led you to your recovery?

A couple of guys that I met in AA that had been in the middle of the solution for years, and they were guys my age. They just pretty much took me under their wing, introduced me to their contacts, and just built a support group for myself. You were trying.

You were actively trying and going to try to get help. It was just you needed a little bit more support. Yeah, for sure. That's pretty awesome. Not awesome that you were in the situation, but awesome that you trying because a lot of people are forced into it. A lot of people that are forced into it, that's a longer road to recovery, isn't it? For sure.

Yeah. They have things like the Marchman Act, which is an involuntary commitment to treatment. If someone displays signs or symptoms that they're a danger to themselves or others. There's laws to get someone help.

How is that different from the Baker Act?

Baker Act is just more for mental health. Baker Act. If someone is, say, suicidal, they're maybe not necessarily struggling with substances. It's just a psychiatric hold for 72 hours, get them evaluated, maybe placed into a facility where the Marchman Act, it's a similar process, but it's more geared towards getting them to treatment for an extended period of time. It saves lives. It's there for a reason, but it's definitely not the prettiest process for having it all unfold how it does, but it does work. Florida is one of the only states that has that law, too. Well, There's another one in Kentucky called Casey's Law. It's very similar. But yeah.

It's funny. I was having a conversation. I can't remember what show it was. It was a journalist, and it was on Fox for many years, and he got a long thing going on now. If the Baker Act and the Marshman Act were work in Florida Why can't it work in Massachusetts? Why can't it work in California? Why can't it work in Idaho? You see my point? If you see something that's working, why?

I feel all states should adopt that because- Why?

I don't get it.

In the work that I do for interventions, there's any in the work that I do for interventions. There's so many times where I've been in a state where there isn't an involuntary order. They'll call it something else. I think Massachusetts, it's like a 5150, but it's-That's California, too, I think. Yeah, it's all psychiatric stuff. There's nothing geared towards treatment and getting them committed to a facility for an extended period of time. The Marchman Act is actually up to 90 days, too. That promotes healing at the end of it with the longer length of stay. Obviously, Obviously, we'll correlate to more sobriety for most people.

Yeah, it's a question that I really wish we could find the answer to. Again, I'll go back to school shootings. There's a solution. Why aren't they doing it? My buddy Patrick Dierbault always says, They. Whoever they are, they want us fighting. It's wild to me because the human life is so valuable. No matter what, there's plenty of tragedy that goes on Anyway. There's car accidents, there's work accidents, there's cancer, there's heart attacks. Why do we need so many other things going on if they could be fixed?

Yeah, I agree.

Is it money? I don't know.

I don't know, to be honest with you. I just know that I feel like every state has the ability to do it. It's just something. What is it? It's holding them back.

Every state in the Union has the resources to guard our schools, too. Listen, we're talking about it because it ties in. We're talking about Fentanyl. We're talking about getting that out of our country and saving lives. We're talking about kids. Do you think it's fair that in three years, when you drop your daughter off at school, that you got to worry if she's going to come home every day?

Yeah, no, I don't think that's just the thing.

Because I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be real with everybody watching and listening right now. My biggest fear every single day is when my kids go to freaking school, and they're at a prep school, and they have arm guards on there, and they have bulletproof windows. It's still every time my kids leave the house, I go out in the car and I give them a kiss no matter what's going on. Sometimes I love bomb the shit. I'm like, Let me get daddy a kiss. I love you guys so much. Have a safe day. Have a great day. Honestly, it scares me when my kids and my My wife leave the house every morning.

It's not fair. No. It's not something you should have to think about.

But America is one of the very few countries. I want to say the only country, but the trolls and the fact checkers might hit me on this one, but I'm going to say the only country where parents have to worry about their children every single day going to school. It's like, What are we doing? What are we doing anyway? We're getting sidebarred. But it's important because, again, I truly feel it all ties in. There's ways to remove drugs, I mean, fintal from the streets. Again, I think we're doing a better job at it now. I think there's a lot of focus on it. But all to say, I want to change lives. I want to help people's life get better. So just the opportunity to do that with you, someone I've known for so long and watched grow in everything that you're doing and watch you grow in your recovery and you getting out there in front of cameras and press and telling It's your story, man. It just means so much.

I appreciate it, man. And likewise for you, dude, starting in your car and look at you now. Top-rank podcast in the entire United States and global, right?

I mean, I don't know. Okay. I mean, maybe. It's hard because the rankings never have global rankings, right? On Spotify, you have United States, and you can filter it down, right? And then you go to Apple and you can filter it down to your category, and then overall. Here's the thing, there's about six million in the United States and America. There's a ton. I'll get pissed when I dropped 60 overall. But the thing that's interesting to me is there's some software like Mopod. You can go and you can click on this link, and it's always changing. It's always updating. I can put my show in there and see where I'm ranked. Sometimes I'm top 20 in Turkey. That's awesome. You don't know that, right? It's one of those things that as long as we put good conversations out and we're having good conversations and we do things differently than everybody else, I think we'll always have a place there. I think we're very close to a massive explosion. It's just this energy I feel. I told a team, I'm like, Hey, I tell my friends that to produce my show, Great Media. I go, Hey, put your seatbelt on, guys.

They're probably like, Dude, we know. You're going to say it, you're going to say it again. But No. It's funny because I'm pretty much right every time because there's that hockey stick, right? It's like we're getting real steep and there's constant movement. And so with that said, when that happens, that's what I'm most proud of. It's what I'm most proud of. You talk about the rankings, we can talk about all that. I love the rankings. I do. Would it be great if I got to number one? Absolutely, because it means something different to me. See, that's what most people don't understand. I put that stuff out there. I post about it. I put my stories because I want to drive people to the show because I know at one point, they're going to need to hear the guest. It's not about me. It's about the guest. If we can bring that value and help them change their lives, that's what I care about. The ego and the prides, dude, throw that out the window. I don't care. I don't care.

I'm all about solution today. Getting back to the discipline part, man. I feel like every man aspires to have that discipline where it's untouched. You're just focused, deadlocked, because that's when I feel like we're at our best. But yeah, I Completely blacked out what I was just about to say. What happened?

Did he pass out on us? Yeah, I think I just blacked out. It's okay.

It's fine.

We can talk about... Even with discipline, right? Let's just go out there because this is good. I like when we have real moments like that in the show.

Completely just blacked out, though.

I don't know what you're talking about. But that's normal. People can relate to that. People are like, Yeah, I know exactly what it happened because I do that all the time. But here's the thing with it. It is the discipline part, right? It pays to be disciplined because through discipline, you gain confidence. Through confidence, you gain momentum. Through momentum, you gain more activity. And through activity, you gain results. But at the same time, I think it's also super important for everybody watching and listening is there's a such thing as being overly rigid and disciplined. You have to enjoy your life a little bit, man.

Like David Goggins type?

Dude, but it works for him, man.

It does.

That's his playground. I was messing with Ryan before. I'm like, Don't get me eating this donut on camera. No, how about that? I was joking. I went like this, too. I was like, That's balanced. Yeah, of course. I'm going to have that. But then I know the rest of the day, I need to load up on Soleil proteins and Whole Foods. I can't play. I can't play later. I probably can't play tomorrow. But today, I got me a nice Krispy cream donut, man. That was good. It's just the funny thing about discipline, right? It's the thing. There can't be too much of everything. There needs to be a healthy balance to what we're doing. Back to white sands. That's what I see here. See, I don't believe balance exists in a work-life balance scenario.

I I've always tried to attain it, and it always seems like I'm searching for it. Do you know why? It's just that things are always ever-changing. I feel like nothing stays consistent.

You're in great shape. You lift weights, right? You have your daughter, you have a job, you have to sleep. What else? You have to eat. You have to manage your friendships, a potential romantic relationship. That's seven things. Can you give eight hours a day to each one of them? Balance doesn't exist. You can't do it, right? What What we need to really shoot for is presence.

Exactly.

Yeah. I agree. When you're with your daughter on the nine holes, the par three course that she took her to three weeks ago, it's not about staying there for the 18 holes. She's two. She can't do it. It's hot. Come get your girl, bro. But you had those moments with her and you were present with her. That's what wins. Our children and our spouses and our friends, they just want us to be locked in on them, even if it's for an hour.

Yeah, exactly.

It It sucks because these stupid devices. I'm sitting here with you, and at one point, me and you're sitting down right here to record the show. I'm like, Oh. But we have to do that. In the morning, I'm not going to let a forest fire burn if I can put it out. Same thing with you, right? We have people that are dependent on us. But balance is something that I don't believe is achievable. If you're looking at it to equate it to something like evenly balanced things now or time, I'm going to spend four hours here, four hours here, six. I mean, you can't do that. But here, this is a very balanced and neutral place, meaning you have water features, you have all these different... You have a gym. So people can live a life and try to balance as much as humanly possible between mental and physical health and spiritual health.

The approach here, Mike was talking about outside, it's just about the whole person and the whole person-centered approach with just the holistic healing, the mental approach, the physical. I mean, it all correlates to overall wellness for anybody, first of all, especially for people in recovery. Yeah, I think it's a great approach. I think it's the only approach that ever worked for me, to be honest with you. I've tried a bunch of different modalities of therapies over the years, and just the holistic approach is typically the most universal for most people.

You brought up a good point. Because addiction, and whether it's binge eating, whether it's drugs, or even certain websites for people, there's something going on with the person. There's a root cause. The other stuff is a symptom. 100%. You have to attack the root, right? That's a hard thing to do.

Yeah. That's what all of the clinical team's role here is to push these individuals individuals here to discover their why. Why did they start drinking at 15 years old, or why did they become addicted at 40 years old later in life? There's always an event, at least in my experience, that is traumatic in the sense that either shut someone down or maybe they learn a bad coping mechanism from that experience, and then they find alcohol one day or they find whatever it is. I feel like each person's journey is different in a sense. But I feel like there's always an underlying issue of why people become addicted in the first place. For me, it was underlying trauma as a child or how I chose to suppress things that were negative in my life, and I just pushed them to the side. Later in life, I realized that, Okay, I'm a runner. When bad things come up, I'll just disappear. I don't address it. That was another awakening, in a sense. Of, I didn't discover that until a couple of years into my sobriety. It was like, Okay, this is an issue. I need to look at this and put some effort into how can I not be that way?

Now, the alternative to that is if there's an issue in a relationship or whatever, I have to address it immediately. It's like that internal voice in your head that tells you, get up and make your bed, or get up and do this, and then we choose to go against it. That's when things get for me. I feel like...

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Great perspective because outside, look, again, I would say your impending event was your injury. Now, potentially, your injury was the impending event that played on your childhood trauma that caused this. You see this equation here? You have to know these things. Why did I binge eat? It's not because I wanted to look like shit. It's not because I wanted to feel terrible in the morning and my body ache from inflammation. No, it's because I didn't feel like I was enough. Exactly.

It could be simple as just grief and loss, too, or self-esteem issues like it was for me at times. I was always thin growing up. I always wanted to be a little bit bigger, a little more filled out. It was inferiority complex growing up a little bit with that. There was a bunch of different things going on. It just comes down to talking about it to discover it. Once you discover it, then you can start to recover.

Amazing. I can't conclude the interview without touching on the clinical team, dude. Because you've mentioned clinical once. That was the original thing I wanted to go back to, and then I blacked out. I just didn't admit it. I just kept fucking rolling like, Baby, can you keep going, baby? Is the clinical team is second to none. I want you to edify them a little bit. Sure. Talk about the experiences. I met Lindsay here. She's diving in hard on the EMR system. She's locked in at 8: 30 in the morning and intense and super smart.

Very smart.

I like her, even though she's from Vanderbilt. It's fine.

Yeah, very smart. What I will tell you is that most of the therapists here have been here for an extended tenure, which says a lot. I feel like clinicians are hard to come by, good ones that give it their all. Lindsay's had... It all starts with Lindsay. Lindsay Henry is the VP of Clinical Services at White Sands, and she's phenomenal at what she does, has a grasp on everything that happens here. All of her therapists are tenured by at least 5, 6, 7, somewhere here, 11 years. I just feel like that speaks volumes of the programs, at least from my past experience working for other providers. There's a revolving door of therapists, and they never really seem to find the fit long term that makes the program up of what it is. I just feel like once you have someone here that knows the program, knows how things work, things just flow way better, and clients get better experiences at that point.

I think that's your guy as a secret sauce. Yes, the facility is great, all the different things that you can do here while you're a guest here. But the clinical aspect and the longevity of everybody here, that's what sets this place apart. Yes. We're not having a ton of turnover here. I say we like I work here. We. Part of it, man. I am. But it's a thing where When people are at a place for a certain period of time, every single clinician, every therapist, every part of support staff knows the pros and cons of everything that happens here. From that point, you're a solution-based person. They can find solutions, implement systems and programs to make sure that that doesn't happen. I just want everybody watching and listening to understand what that really means.

That's big. It is big. I feel like, especially with the ratio to patients to clinicians, they keep it under a certain amount, so it feels like that individuality in care, which is so important for a patient to have adequate time with their therapist. I mean, that's your time to unload. In the beginning, for me, it was really about unloading in there until I felt comfortable of unloading in a group setting. But that's where it starts, man. That's where the healing journey begins, for sure.

I love it, man. I love This has been fun, dude. Thanks, man. It's been a good time. One more question for you. This is the Determine Society, right? I like to ask this question, what is true determination? How do you define true determination?

I think it starts with discipline, going back to discipline, determination. I feel like action. Action is determination. I can dream all I want in my head, but if I'm not applying action to that word, it means nothing. That's the part when you need to do it, though. That's when you need to do it because that's when the change is made, man. That's like going back to the little inner thoughts in my head, just telling me to do certain tasks throughout the day. I could ignore them if I want, but that's not going to make me better. It's not going to make me feel good. Yeah, I feel like determination is acting now.

Good. I love it. It's not as gritty and sexy as people think, right? It's showing up because you said you would. Yeah, of course. That's the one thing that we love to talk about on the show, and I love when my guests bring that out because the listeners, they pay attention, right? The viewers, they pay attention, and everybody's looking for that silver bullet. What is going to make me better? What is going to make me more successful? It's really about the one thing, the one thing that's holding you hostage. You take care of that thing, then you've got it. You're well on your way to becoming much, much better because now you're not bogged down by this massive boulder sitting on your chest or your shoulders. I just think it's important to always ask that question and tie in. What if you don't want to? I don't want to run tonight. I'm going to run tonight. I must because my asshole team told me that I had to do a Spartan race with them, and I hate them every day, but I love them when I'm done with the workout. I love them. But, dude, thank you so much for coming on.

Of course, bro. For coming on. This was truly an honor. I love the fact that I was able to be infused into your world for a couple hours today. For the audience listening, if there's anything in your life that you need to overcome, obviously, around, you saw the ad in the show, but really, pick up the phone and call. It's a great place, and we just want you guys to feel good. We want you guys to heal when you need to so you can be with your families and truly enjoy your life. And this is the thing I have to say to you guys. Until next time. Stay determined.