Transcript of Career Pivots: How Adversity Builds Discipline | The Real Catalyst New

you yourself have gone through some hard moments in your life.

Yeah.

I mean, being the first woman in 40 years to graduate college and the first one to go to an HBCU, and that gives me joy.

Even if I have to go home to Minnesota, which I'm not, cuz I don't want to go home to Minnesota.

You're not, you're not going to have to go.

Even if I have to, my mom wanting to go back to school to get her GED because Maya went to college, or my mom buying her first home because anything is possible now, because she's seen it in her daughter. My achievements and the places I've been, the people I have touched and impacted, is far greater than something that didn't work out. It's far greater. Now that I— now that we're chatting about it, now I kind of see we're walking.

Come on, go.

Is this therapy? Come on.

Yes, it is. Welcome to the couch. What's up, everybody? Welcome back. I have a bombshell of an interview for you today. Lamaya Pierlina. She is a host of Inside South Florida, and, um, she has an amazing story. Uh, she— weren't you one of the first women to go to college in your family as well?

First woman in like 40 years to graduate.

Years to graduate college. She went to HBCU Prairie View.

Yes, I did.

Now they have great colors like LSU purple and gold. You've got the gold nails and the purple pants, so I'm digging your color combo today, girl. So This is going to be a fun conversation. We're going to hear about some things that she's done in the past, things that she's doing currently, but there's also a transition that she's going through right now in career, and we're going to talk about what's next with her. So without further ado, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I did not choose to wear purple and gold on purpose. It just looked good today.

Well, hey, purple and gold always looks good, my friend. That is the colors of royalty.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

I'm so happy to have you.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of times, you know, whenever Matt says, hey, you got to interview this person, done.

Yeah, Matt Dillon does that a lot to me too. I mean, he's good at that.

He's good at that because he knows how to connect energies.

Yeah, right.

He knows how to connect good people with other good people that are going to have good conversation. And I've never had a bad recommendation from Matt Dillon. So when he said, like, you need to interview this chick, I go, well, when? Because I have some open— I have some open slots this week. So thank you for driving all the way over.

No problem. I enjoyed it. I did.

You got stuck in traffic.

I got— traffic took me by the neck.

Did it really?

Um, but that's something I learned about Florida. Like, there's traffic everywhere. That's been the biggest lesson for me is calm down in traffic. Dude, if you don't, your day will be ruined.

You— especially here in Naples.

Really?

Oh yeah. Pine Ridge is brutal. 41's brutal. It'll take me an hour and a half to get home.

Really?

And I live 12 miles down the road.

Wow.

Yeah, I mean, as soon as you hit a certain time, if you don't get out of the studio by like 1, yeah, you're crushed. Oh, you're crushed. But I think you'll be good at going back.

Yeah, I think so. It was not a lot of traffic going back.

But where are you in, in the East Coast? Are you in Miami or—

No, I'm actually in Davie. So my station was, is in Plantation, um, and so I lived literally the next exit. Because when I moved, I said, I haven't been in traffic for such a long time. I was in Illinois, Springfield for 3 years. No traffic. Everything's 10 minutes away.

Really?

And I'm like, if I go to Florida, I'm not driving more than 5 minutes to work. And so I've did it and it's been great.

And over there though, like over there, sometimes 5 minutes can take 40 minutes.

Oh, for sure. I mean, it's wild.

It's wild.

Welcome to Florida.

Yeah. Welcome to Florida. Good old season. Everybody down here right now cluttering up the road.

But I like when they're here. Do you? Yeah.

Well, it, our economy thrives much better, especially here in Southwest Florida.

Mm-hmm.

Because we're much more seasonal than over there on the East Coast. Yeah. There's not a whole lot over here. So, you know, during spring training or when the snowbirds come down, like our economy thrives.

Mm-hmm.

It is a little irritating because you can't get into restaurants. I'm like, dude, I just want tacos and tequila. It's not that hard to get. Like, why, why am I, why can I not get in to get a freaking taco?

It's, uh, you know what, when I first went to Miami, no, when I first got here, I'm like, oh my God, traffic is amazing. There's traffic. You know, you're a small girl. well, it's not small girl, but I lived in a small city for such a long time and getting to the big city is like, okay, there's people here, traffic.

Yeah.

And then slowly but surely I'm on the phone with my brother and I'm like, why are these people out at 9 in the morning? Where are they going? He's like, dude, you live in a vacation state.

Yeah.

People are there to have fun. Just relax.

But it's funny because like over there, like people don't get up super early and, and they're not moving around. Like, no, my wife, when I met her, she lived in Brickell. And you know, we did the same job for a very long time. We were both selling payroll for the same company. And I'd be out in my territory by like 8:00 AM and she'd be waking up at 8 or 9. I'm like, dude, are you gonna work today? She goes, oh, it's Miami. They don't wake up until 11.

And you know, Miami people, I always say that they have like these interesting made up jobs almost. Everybody's creating and influencing and like leisure. Everybody's in their Spanx. I mean, there's Spanx, there's Spandex.

There's Spanx.

I'm old.

Could be Spanx too.

How old am I? But spandex and sports bras and they're just chilling. I think that's one thing I do like about Miami and even Fort Lauderdale. Everybody's happy or it seems happy and just on the go and at their own pace.

Yeah.

They're just vibing and living.

That is the key word, living. I was about to say they're living their life. And I think that's so important, right? Because there's so much distraction right now going on.

Yeah.

In the economy, in the government, politically, whatever. To be able to truly live your life, I think, is such a gift because you can't worry about all the shit going on. You can't worry about what's going to happen. I mean, right now, I mean, look, you're going through a career transition. You didn't know that was coming, and we'll get to that, right? But you can't worry about the things that haven't happened yet because now you're living in the future, and that's massive anxiety.

Yes.

And then the true goal is to be here now. And that is such a hard thing to do, especially as an adult. Like, I have 3 kids, wife. You're always thinking of like things in the past or things in the future and worried, but it just pays huge dividends to be present and to try to focus on what you can control in that current moment.

Yeah, yeah, I get that. I think for me, I'm an ambitious girl and I've always been ambitious. Okay, let's get to it. I mean, I come from a background of women and men who are like hustlers. And I played a lot of sports growing up and I have a lot of brothers. I have 6 brothers and 1 sister. Oh, wow. And we were all like in sports.

You're 1 of 8?

Yes.

I can't—

am I counting right? Is it 8? 6, 7, 8. Yes, you're right. I did it.

I did it. That's quick math.

And it's between my mom and my dad's kids. But like, we were all in sports, very, very hustle motivated. And growing up, college, young adult life, working, I've always been, what's next? What's on the go? How can I climb this ladder? And in my industry, at first I started as a news reporter and it always was start small at a small market, climb your ladder, always think about how you can get to the next level, then the next market, how you can get to these next industries or next companies. It was never smell your roses where you are, enjoy life in small town Amarillo or mid-sized market in Springfield. It's always, how can I get to that next thing?

I'm like, that's interesting because I'm wired that way. And so we'll hit certain benchmarks and we'll be doing certain things on the show. And from the outside looking in, they're like, dude, you're killing it.

And I'm like, I don't feel like it.

I don't feel like it.

I need to do more.

I need to do more. What's next? What is next? And I think there's a healthy way to really, I guess, filter all that because I don't think anybody should be happy where they're at and content because to me, breeds complacency, and then you start going the wrong direction, right? Comfort kills, right? So like, for me, I want to know what that level up is. How can I push the envelope even more? How can we make it better? How can— and I sometimes I think I drive my team nuts, you know, like a good old Ryan, like, what can we do to make it better? He's like, dude, it's great. Like, no, I'm like, no, no, no, like, what can we do to make it better?

We exhausted all resources.

Like, I think that's very healthy, but it's also— I grew up with a father who was a hustler. You know, when he wasn't at work, he was out doing other stuff, hustling.

Yep.

My dad too. And it's just the way it is.

Yes.

You know, and it wasn't until later on in life I learned what that was. Side jobs weren't side jobs. Oh. Okay, you know what I'm saying? But it's like we had a lot of different stuff and we, you know, he had a boat, we had nice cars, like, you know, we lived a nice life. But you know, when you witness that type of thing, you're always looking to grow. Like, how can I get more? How can I make— and for me, it's more about how can I impact more? Because I know if I impact more, then bottom line's gonna work itself out, right?

Yeah, I feel that. That reminds me of my dad too. So my dad growing up, he was a sheriff all my life, but he was my basketball coach. He made sure that he was my basketball coach, my T-ball coach. If he had it his way, he'd be my teacher too.

That's crazy.

But when I went to college, he got a second job at, an airline just to make sure he had more enough money, but also to make sure I could fly from, um, Texas to Minnesota for free.

Smart.

And my dad never slept. Even now, he's a retired sheriff, but now he is getting his PhD. He is an adjunct professor, and he works at a rec center. And I just said, Dad, when do you sleep? He's like— and he does, and he does like, um, he does security for St. Thomas University in Minnesota. Okay. He's like the lead security. And he's just— and he does like the little side gigs where you get extra money. When do you sleep? And he's like, when I can. And I grew up seeing my mom and my dad that way. My mom had multiple jobs. She was a daycare provider at our house and worked at Walmart after the kids left.

Wow.

My parents really never slept. So that, that— I like to call it that perseverance that's embedded in me. So when we go back to saying like, being very ambitious and always thinking about the next thing. I've seen it all my life. And my dad just told me the other day, I've always taught you how to fight, but I never taught you to let things just be.

Oh damn, that's impressive.

Yeah.

How did the rest of that conversation go?

I was like, wait, we don't need to let it be. We need to keep going.

Yes, yes.

But now I get it though. That was just a couple weeks ago. And this was, are we gonna talk about my job now? 'Cause I'm ready to get into it.

You just keep going. Okay. Like, I'm on you.

This was with my job. So I'm a lifestyle TV host. And I've been here for a year and about 3, 4 months for a lifestyle show. That's my thing. Fashion, food, faith, females, fun. Those are my 5 Fs. And my company is taking a pivot because we are, of course, broadcasting a sports game or sports— yeah, sports game. And that's for the Florida Panthers. And they're pivoting to doing more sports programming for the show, and that kind of dissolved my position as a lifestyle host.

Damn.

But before that, they were like, just do more Florida Panthers stuff on the show. Just do more. Just do more sports stuff. And I'm like, I don't want to do— that's not me. That's not me. And I'm like, do I need to pivot? How long will that pivot last for me? And then it becomes, well, what do I need to do next? What does this look like next? And what if I don't have a job after this? And those— all those concessions of questions and anxiety, like you said, come into play. And I'm fighting everything. I'm fighting the leadership about what they want. I'm trying to make meetings happen to make sure we can save our show. And then all of a sudden we get this meeting and it's like we're changing the direction of this show and your job is being impacted by it. So I had no choice but to stop fighting.

Yeah.

And I spent maybe 2 months Meeting with leadership, what do you guys want on this show? Meeting with the other people on the show, how can we pivot? How can we do more sports even if we don't want to? What does that look like? And that was my fighting to be, to persevere. But it was just time to just let it go and let it be.

You know, that, that's a good point because like when you look at things like, you know, even in my industry, right? I mean, I get 1,000 unsolicited pieces of advice every single day. Every single day. And it's usually, hey, you should talk more about this. This is trending. Go here. I'm like, but that's not me. And so I can't sell out. I can't have conversations bashing one political side or the other political side. I can't get involved in a lot of different things because it's not going to come off authentic and people are going to be, that's forced. You're doing this because You need to do this because you feel that if you don't do it, you're going to lose viewers and listeners. Well, okay, if I lose them, then I'll get more. Yes. Right?

Yes.

I want to be able to be me. Because if you were to go and do all the Florida Panther content and dive into the sports, if it's not your passion, if it's not a part of the 5 Fs, then it's not going to make sense. And it may do well ratings-wise, but you'll be dying inside.

Absolutely.

And it's not worth that.

And I knew that.

Mm-hmm.

And, and a part of me, my therapist just told me this yesterday, it's time to start trusting myself. Mm. A part of me is like, well, maybe this is just what I have to do. But another part's like, this isn't who you are. So why are you putting your own needs aside to fit into somebody else's mission? This is a business.

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And anxiety comes in and fear comes in. And now you can't operate the way you used to operate because you are moving out of lack.

You're cutting yourself off. You're cutting yourself off.

Yes, absolutely.

You're cutting out of flow. You can't be connected with God, the higher power, when you're worried about all these other things that people want you to be.

Yep.

I mean, I'm sure— I mean, that's it right there.

So good.

I mean, that's it. Like, I'm going to be me and it's either going to work or it's not. At least I know that I gave what I could. And I think it's important that when you said your dad taught you how to hustle, but he never taught you just how to sit with it or how to just be.

Yes. And that's uncomfortable for me.

I know, like, because you shifted when you sit with it.

Made me, made me want to run.

Right. No, because it's a physical reaction. Like, I feel that way too.

Yeah.

Because like, I don't sit with things. I, I can't sit with things. If I need to do something that speaks to me, if I can see it, right, and then I can get the— and people make fun of me about this all the time— if I see something, if I close my eyes and see it, That's one thing. That's a check mark. But if I can feel the emotion of attainment, then I move as fast as I can because I know I'm going to make that my reality. But if I can't do those two things, then I can't do it because it's not going to be right. It'll never come off good. But sitting with things, it's scary.

Sitting with it. And that's been the biggest lesson in my life for the past couple of months. Sitting with it. It's uncomfortable. The thought of losing your job, laid off, whatever, it is the most uncomfortable feeling because I'm someone who likes to have control over my narrative. I am the person that says, all right, so this is next.

Yeah.

And this is where we're going and this is how we're going to get there. God literally was like, nope, you're gonna— first of all, I surrendered it to him. I said to him, okay God, if we have to pivot to do more sports content, 'Even if I don't want to do it, if you say this is what we're going to do—' 'Let me know.' 'Let me know. I'll do it.' And I was ready to do it. And then he gave me a ram in the bush. Abraham, Abraham, do you know that story? Yes. He gave me that ram in the bush. I was about to cut off my own baby, my own baby, right? What I worked so hard to become. Oh my gosh. Oh my God. I'm having a revelation now. What is this? But my own, my own self, like my own baby, this woman, this thing, this passion that I've worked so hard to be, to achieve, and to obtain, I was gonna cut it off to fit into a mold, a piece of someone else's puzzle. Can you believe that? And God was like, no, we're going to release you in the most— the best circumstances you've ever seen before.

'Cause I've not had a job before. And it's like, this is different. This is different. This is him saying, You've learned what you needed to learn here. You're going to take it somewhere else. You're going to shine.

Yeah, you're going to end up doing your own thing. You're going to end up doing your own thing, and it's going to be awesome. I mean, like, listen, I, you know, my wife is better at this than me, but I can read a lot of different people's energies, and I know when someone's special. You're special. Thank you. Absolutely. And the thing that you got to realize is, you know, the corporate game— the game, the game Mm-hmm.

That's the game. I'm learning it.

The game is simple. Yes. Okay. You play it or you don't stay. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that my wife was really good at is not playing the game. Mm-hmm. And when I was around her a lot more, I started to not play the game. And then you quickly realize that you are a number. And I don't think everybody should play the game. I think you need to play it for long enough till you can figure out, what your true gifts are. And then it's like, okay, this doesn't align, I'm out. Like, yeah, I'm gonna be me, you know? And if you don't like it, then we can talk about it. But playing the corporate game and fitting into their box and their narrative, that's part of the job description, right? It's like, okay, if you're a salesperson for a certain company, then you need to be a certain way, you need to do a certain thing, and you need to check off all these different KPIs every single day and do what they say. Like, hey, if you have to pivot to a completely different product or topic. Yeah. Then hey, if you would've been like, yeah, I'm all in, you wouldn't have been happy, but you'd still be there, but you'd be drowning in misery.

Yeah. You know, I always look at my career as relationships too. Yeah. Because even in relationships, I cannot settle with just anything. Mm-hmm. And I always make those things equivalent. Like, I'm really happy in what I'm doing at my, in my career and the impact I've had and the people I've met and the stories I got to tell. And yes, I can mold and shape-shift, but like you said, I'm never going to be happy. It just, in relationships, is the same thing. With friendships too, you know, you can put up with a terrible person or someone that is not equally yoked. She'll never— it's never going to be what it needs to be.

Yeah, no, it's going to be a season. Yes. And there's going to be a massive blow-up at the end, and it's not going to feel right. At what cost?

Yeah. Do you lose your purpose and peace. And peace. Yeah. And I'm not— I realized that those things mean more to God than anything. Yeah. And that's his will and his prayer. It's not even about me, because I was ready to do it. All right, this is what we got to do to stay. But God said no, it's not you.

I love that. And it's great that you are listening. Oh gosh, yes. Because in, in times like this, and I think it's important for the audience to know this, like Because they're sitting there and think, okay, well, I'm spiritual as well, but maybe sometimes I don't have the discernment. If you aren't clear and you are desperate, you will not make the right decision. Out of lack. Yes. You just won't do it. But it's a special moment when you can go, you know what? What's the worst that can happen? The worst thing that could happen, you know, they dissolve your position.

Yes.

But like, that's not even the worst. I mean, you're still going to live. You're still going to have breath in your lungs.

I thought that my world was going to collapse.

Walk us through that. Why did you think that? Okay. I think it's valid. I think it's a valid emotion.

I'm just curious on your thought process. I think so. I come from— I lived in a single-parent household. My mom and my dad were never together. And I am my mom's, just with her children, I'm her first I'm the only child to graduate college. Everyone lives home. My brother's never— my brother went to college, my oldest. He didn't go back and didn't graduate. My youngest never went. And I am the one that made it out. Made it out. And my biggest fear is to go back home with my tail tucked between my legs. That, to me, I'm still working on this in therapy, but that resembles failure to me. Because she's— my mom, my dad, they're so proud of what I've achieved. And I have been told during this career, I've been in it 7 years, I have been rejected multiple times. You're too small, you're too short, your voice is not right, your hair is too big, you're not polished enough. Your hair's too big. Yes. I've told the story of one news director calling me 2 or 3 times to let me know why he wasn't hiring me and to make me reapply.

And he still didn't hire me. And then maybe months later, he was like, I reject that. I mean, I regret that. I regret not not hiring you. So you live with this, this fear of rejection and not being wanted when you're trying to break through this career. And then you get the job and you're like, yes, okay, I got the one yes. And then you move to your second yes and your third yes. And now it's like, you're in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, away from home, from Minnesota, all my family. And it's like they want you to change. And if you don't change or you can't, they're going to dissolve your position. So what happens next? Do I go back into this pool and apply and, and face being rejected again or told you're not good enough or told it's hard to get back into the industry or even told lifestyle is not a thing anymore? Or what if God wants me to completely pivot my career? And, and at this moment, my identity is my career. It's been my career for 7 years. I've been fighting to be this girl. And now all of a sudden, it's going to be gone out literally from under me.

What's going to happen to me? And that's how I felt. I remember cleaning my house a couple weeks ago, crying, because I'm like, what if I don't live here anymore? Like, what's gonna happen? I was so fearful of what would come of me. But when they told me, your position is being impacted, basically you're getting laid off, I didn't feel any of that. I felt peace. Okay. And I was like, okay, God. I had to remember, God, you brought me here. I didn't want to come to Miami. I didn't want to— there were so many things that intimidated me about this station and the city. I can imagine. And I was like, no, I'm not going. But I did. And I was an Emmy Award contributor, won a 40 Under 40 Award within the first year of me being here.

That's so badass.

And I have to remember that part. Yeah. Yeah, you didn't have a job for 3 months before you got here. You know, you were still looking. But God sustained me. And I have to trust that he sustained me. I can't live in, oh, I'll be poor and I'm broke and God wants me to move back home and fail. He does not want those things.

You know, it— I want to tell you a quick story.

Am I talking too much?

No, you're amazing. Okay, good. You're amazing. This is what makes great conversation. Okay. They don't want to hear me all the time. They want to hear you. Moving home. Yeah. If you know, you, you said that for me, moving home is— it symbolizes failure. In 2007 and '08, it's when the mortgage meltdown happened. Okay, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay, played baseball at LSU. After, you know, I graduated LSU, I came to Florida because my parents migrated here. I spent 20 minutes in North Port, Florida. When I say 20 minutes, it's probably about 2-3 months.

Okay.

I was taking my teaching certification so I could teach, so I could coach baseball. See, coaching baseball was where I could hide. Hmm. That's what I thought my identity was. Yeah. Okay. And so it was back in the day when you had to go and do— this is— I'm aging myself. So when you had to take the test on Scantron and bubble in the answers. I remember Scantron. Yeah. You're not that old. I did that. And then they lost the test. So I went and got my stuff. They lost your test? I lost my test. I'm like, to hell with this place. Okay. I went home, packed up my car, and drove across the country back home to California. No job, no place to live. Figured it out on the way home. Had a place to live and had a job on the way home. Okay, started doing mortgages. My whole point of the story is everything was going great until it wasn't. I walked in one day because I was talking about the real estate bubble that's going to pop, it's going to burst, home values are going to drop, and rates are going to go sky high, and all the programs are going to change, and no one's gonna be able to qualify for loans.

I walked in one day and I looked at my board at a pipeline board. I had 12 loans closing that, that month, a total of over $70,000 in one month. I was in my 20s, opened up my computer, right, logged in, went to my email. Loan program killed, canceled, canceled, canceled, canceled, because it popped. I lost every single loan. Yeah, in that pipeline. I made $0 that month. I had a mortgage, I had a car, I had my car repossessed, I had to short sell my house, and I had to move. I had to tuck my tail between my legs and move to Southwest Florida. And I lived in my mom's house. I didn't have a cell phone because I couldn't afford it. I didn't have a car because it got taken from the bank. And my mom at that time wasn't even living there. She was living with someone she was dating. And so I was living in this house, no cable. I was watching DVDs of Friends over and over and over again. And then I built my life here and the trajectory that it went, it was the biggest blessing that I think I've ever come across.

But it started out as me feeling like a failure. So even if the worst thing ever happened in your mind and you had to move back to Minnesota, you had to you have no idea what's waiting for you. What can happen there.

Yeah, that's true too. That's true in every aspect of this for me. If I go back home— but God's actually confirmed to me, like, on my way here, as a matter of fact. Can I say it? Yes, of course. I'm driving, and from Davie to Naples, part of the road is like just fields. Like, it's just flatland. And when I used to be a reporter in Amarillo, that's where I first started. I used to drive like 5 hours to Dallas to go hang out with my friends.

Oh my God, that's such a drive.

'Cause I was so thirsty to be with my friends.

I know, clearly, 5 hours, to hell with that.

And then like in Springfield, Illinois, I would drive an hour and a half to go to St. Louis to go hang out. And it was these flatlands all the time, just like this long drive, boring drive. And God said, do you remember the time where you had to drive and see all of this dry land, this field? He said, "You will never have to do that again." But before that, maybe 20 minutes, I'm like, "Lord, if we have to leave here," I said, I'm not even gonna finish that sentence. "I'm gonna just surrender it to you. I'm just surrender whatever we have to do. If we have to leave, if we have to change careers, if we have to go home, if we have to go to a small city again, I surrender it to you.

Don't wanna do it." No, I get it.

But I will. And I just, God confirmed to me, And I hope I can say it, Lord, but you'll never have to do that road again. And that's it. But still like, okay, God, but what if I'm not gonna be in media anymore? What if I have to be a publicist or whatever? And I'm scared. He's just like you said, no idea how that can change my life. No idea.

So first of all, media's always gonna be there. Always. Yes. You can have your own platform, right? Mm-hmm. Because you can do that now. I know. I did it. Yeah. I did it. And now it's the only thing I do. I'm living the dream, right? It's hard and it's really not a dream half the time. It's like, oh my God, this is hard, right? It's very hard. But people trust these types of platforms, right? They go to it for the information. They come to ours for stories of determination and hope. And when I'm listening to you, this is all perseverance, grit, and determination. It was a perfect fit for a great conversation. Yeah. But the other thing you got to think of, and she's like, oh, what if I have to be a publicist? You would smash it. I know. As a publicist.

I think I'd do great.

Yeah. I mean, you would. Sometimes it can be a little dirty, right? Because all publicists have their own angle, right? And they allow their talent to do certain things as long as it fits what they want them to do. And that's the ugly part of the industry, right? I've had many celebrities that have wanted to come on the show that I've had contact with, and then their PR say, we're not doing any press tours right now. I'm like, yeah, but this A-list actor just said that he wanted to do— no, we're on a pause right now. Yeah. What world do I live in right now where the talent is like, hell yeah, but the publicist is like, no? That's a strange thing for me. 'Cause me, I mean, I love Matt. He's my publicist. He's like, nope. I'm like, sorry, dude. Like, you're giving me some leeway on this one 'cause I wanna do it. I think we should always be able to do what we wanna do as long as it doesn't hurt the platform. If he says, don't do it because it's going to hurt you, then now I'm listening. Now I'm listening.

But if you're telling me like, no, you don't want me to do anything because I'm on a break, I'm like, I can't afford to take a break. This is too much fun for me. My whole point is, is like all these things that you're going through and thinking about, Yeah, what if?

What if? What if? What if you did have to do that? What if it works? That's what I've been on lately. What if this works?

Yeah, I think that's something that you always have to hold on to, right? Because no matter what you choose, no matter what you go into, there's going to be a point of friction where it's not going the way you want it to go. Right? I mean, it happens to me all the time. Yeah. Right? But then it's conversations like this that reenergize me. That allow me to feel like we're in it, we're in the game. As long as these types of conversations happen, I'm in the game. And then I can push a little bit more and figure out what it is I need to do. But if you're in this, you said it before, in this mindset of lack, can't do it. And we all get there, we all get there, but we gotta shake out of it as quickly as humanly possible, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, you do. You do. I wanna operate in abundance. I am operating in abundance because I'm covered and everything's gonna work out.

People look at people like you and me when we say that kind of stuff and they don't understand it. They don't understand it. And it's okay. Yeah. It's okay because I mean, I think that when you grow up, around people that hustle consistently and you see things work out and then you yourself have gone through some hard moments in your life. Yeah. I mean, being the first woman in 40 years to graduate college, like think about that.

And the first one to go to an HBCU. I didn't realize the importance of it at all during college. I recently realized the importance of it because now I have younger cousins who are, graduating from HBCUs. And that gives me joy too, because there's no way I can fail now. There's no way. Even if I have to go home to Minnesota, which I'm not, because I don't want to go home to Minnesota. You're not going to have to go. But even if I have to, my achievements and the places I've been, the people I have touched and impacted is far greater than something that didn't work out. My cousins, my younger cousins are saying they want to go to Spellman, Alabama. Uh, I think it's Alabama, maybe it's Alabama, somewhere in Alabama. Um, but just these, these different HBCUs because Maya went, or my mom wanting to go back to school to get her GED because Maya went to college, or my mom buying her first home because anything is possible now. 'cause she's seen it in her daughter. My achievements and the way God has blessed me to bless others is far greater than any layoff, any mission delay.

It's far greater. Now that we're chatting about it, now I kind of see. We're walking.

Come on, go. Come on.

Is this therapy? Come on.

Yes, it is. Welcome to the couch. Welcome to the couch. We get all the work done here.

Yes. Like, now I see these things. But yeah, I— What if it works? What if it works?

You know, I think that the special thing when we're going through creating something is to stay in that framework. What if it does work? And then you get to a point after enough, what if it does work? And we're like, no, it's working. Like, it's gonna work. You have to get to that point because there's gonna be enough people rooting against you. Oh yeah, for sure. And so like, like internally, you have to believe without a shadow of a doubt, no matter how bad you are at the beginning at something, it's going to work out. You are going to pull through. I go back and I look at things from like 2, 3 years ago, and I'm mortified of how bad I was.

But you kept going.

But at the time, I thought I was it. And so I'll look back in another year or two and be like, wow, you sucked then. But, but that's the point, right? It's like when you create something, you, you have to be willing to suck at it and eat dirt for a very, very long time. Because when you get to a point where you're thriving, you appreciate it much more, and the humility level is so much greater than walking into something and being dope.

God, you're good, man. You should also do therapy for real.

I think I'm just, I think I'm just counseling myself.

But that's about sitting in it too, though. Yeah, sitting in, no, sitting in it knowing that you're at the time you said you knew you were it, but sitting in it and keep going, you know, confronting and facing everything, because that's where you grow. When you avoid it, you, you could have been like, I don't think that was good. I'm going to just stop here. And what could have happened?

You know, I think adversity is the real classroom. Man. Yeah. You know, I did a TED Talk, um, in Naples, and my talk was Adversity is the Real Classroom. And we go— the whole conversation was about what does adversity teach you? How can you be a lifelong learner? What are the things that you can do every single day that can really amplify who you are because of adversity? And I don't think— I don't think a lot of people look at it like that. They look at adversity as like That's my stopping point. You know, I grew— I mean, growing up being in athletics, and you know how it is, right? Yeah. You know, gosh, 7 siblings, right? And then, and then all of the things that you saw— your parents working multiple jobs, your dad not sleeping, your mom not sleeping, you know, all the things. Adversity is the one thing that is constant in this world, and if you freaking run from it you are not going to ever win. Nope. Because people think, people think the gift is the win. And this is why I miss Kobe Bryant so much. I get goosebumps every time I say this dude's name.

He said like, everybody thinks the championship is the thing, that that's your reward, that is your, your gift. No, the moments leading up, the chase, the training the adversity, that's the gift. The other thing is just a trophy. But if you look at adversity as your move forward point, oh my God, you will— for the audience listening, you will achieve more than you could ever imagine. If the moment something pushes back on you hard, you're like, you don't retreat. Yeah, you put your face in it. Yes, that's the, that's the gift. It's like a game.

It's like a basketball game. I can— man, when we were 12, we went to, like, nationals. We were so good. We were so good in our state. We think we were, like, 43-0, my dad's team, AAU, Central Area Girls Basketball Team, just to shout them out. So cool. But we were, like, 43-0, and, like, it was— practice was so hard, and sometimes the games were so hard. Sometimes I remember like 2 girls had a concussion on our team and then one of our other teammates broke her collarbone. And like, I remember when she broke her collarbone, the game was like 43-45 or something like that. And we were down 2 minutes on the clock. We got to figure out how we can tie this up. But Jada just broke her collarbone and I'm looking at her sitting there crying. And my coach, my— not my dad, but my other coach just took me out of the game. You're not ready. You're not ready to face this adversity. You need to sit down for a little bit so we can win this game. Wow. That's one of the biggest lessons. And it's like, you gotta, even if your collarbone's broke or someone's hurt on your team, you still gotta figure out how to face this thing head on.

Next up. Yes.

Next up.

It's gotta be that way. Let's go.

And you know, and your team wouldn't have pulled through if the moments of practice weren't hard. Yep. So it's like, dang, that's good. I just, I reject the fact when People say, you know, this just isn't going well because there's too much resistance. It's like, well, if resistance builds you in the gym, then why can't it build you in life? Yes. I mean, we, we go to try to go to failure in the gym, right? You try to, you know, the last 2, 3 reps, you want it so hard you can barely get them up. But why in life do we want things easy?

Wow, dang, you also just reminded me I need to go to the gym.

I went today. You don't go to the gym?

I do. Okay. I, I miss my HIIT workout 2 days in a row and I know they're going to get on my— Where do you go?

UFC. Oh yeah, really?

I just wanted to go for the vibes at first. I just wanted to go to make friends. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I love it now. And I'm in the HIIT and I do Pilates there. I love— and I have clothes now. I'm cute.

You have UFC clothes, you got some fighter clothes. You look a little dangerous, you know, walking around. I do. Just did a workout at UFC gym.

With my pink outfit on. There you go. Walking around with my headphones. Yeah. And I'm good at my HIIT class now too. I'm really good. That's cool.

How many days a week do you go?

I go 3. Okay. 3 a week. I go, well, 4 actually. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. That's great. 4 days. Yeah, 4 days.

That's really cool. Yes. You know, Pilates is something I've never tried. You gotta do Pilates. And listen, so many of my friends that are fitness people online, I mean, the, the female ones are like, I'll comment on their stuff. They go, Sean, have you ever done Pilates? I'm like, nah. They're like, trust me, you need to do it. Yes. And it's like that comfort level, right? It's like, I need to figure out a place where— not that I'm comfortable going, right? But I'm just not gonna walk into a random Pilates studio, go, yo, I'm here, you know, like, let's do this. Because I remember one time— okay, this is a fun—

don't do that at any Pilates studio. No, it's hard.

I mean, like I mean, I mean, I see people like that that are in— like, I follow on Instagram that are literally doing some small movement and they're dripping and they're shaking. I'm like, I don't like that. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I, but I think it, you know, for overall, you know, fitness and stability and balance, I think it's smart, you know. But, um, I got a funny story to tell you. So years ago, I mean, way, way Way long ago, babe, trust me. When I was living in California, um, I was dating this— I was starting to date this girl, and she asked me if I want to do hot yoga. I'm like, absolutely, because I mean, like, yeah, I'm gonna go. Yeah, because I'm, I'm working here, you know? And it was the worst experience of my life. I was puking everywhere. Like, I was sitting there dizzy. That is some hard stuff. So people think that, like, if you're not lifting weights, if you're doing Pilates or you're doing you know, hot yoga, it's really not exercise. Like, that was the most tired I've ever been in my entire life.

Pilates is when I first started seeing that, like, my body changed, where my mom was like on FaceTime, why do your arms look so sculptured? I'm like, Pilates.

Yeah, because I do the work, Mom. I do it. I do the work. I don't stop. But Jess, you have to get back in there.

I do. I do.

Tomorrow's Saturday, so you're going to go tomorrow, right?

I'm doing my Pilates tomorrow. Okay. But Monday back at it. That's good. HIIT workouts. I like it. People need to go to— like I said, I went for the vibes because I wanted to meet new people, but I got so intimidated at first because everybody seems like they know what they're doing and everybody looks amazing. Here I am just bouncing around trying to figure out where the ab machine is. But now, because of consistency and the community I've built with my HIIT workout and Pilates class, I love it. See, I think it's important.

I love it. Now we're on fitness. This is great. It's a fully comprehensive conversation. Yes. So in most of my conversations, and Ryan knows, always comes back to this, is the gift of movement. Yes. It's a true gift. And a lot of people look at it as a chore. But if you were crippled, would you regret? Right. Would you regret not? Yeah. Yeah, but like, everybody needs to do what they like to do. So there's a lot of misdirection on you should do HIIT, you shouldn't do HIIT, you should just do resistance training. I was like, whatever, whatever blows your skirt up, you go do, and you do it consistently, and you eat good, right? And, and you're healthy. You know, for me, I love lifting weights, but back in November of '24, I was very overweight. So I started at Orange Theory Fitness, and I was going 4 or 5 days a week. Okay. And so I could get the cardio in and burn the calories and be in a long enough deficit, a big enough deficit for a longer period of time so I could shed some weight. And once I got to a certain point, I'm like, okay, now I'm back in the lift.

Like, so I don't go there anymore, but I'm enjoying just the lift. Yeah, but I want to incorporate more movement. I want to incorporate some Pilates. I want to incorporate some, some hot yoga because I think it's important. And for me, learning how to stay calm and present is super important because I am so freaking high-strung.

Yeah, and it helps you with your breathing too. Everything is connected, Sean. Everything is connected. Working out helps you with your resilience. It helps you with your breathing. It helps you slow down. Because when I was first working out, I'm like, when they're like, you're not doing anything.

Yeah, you're trying to be cute.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you got to slow these things down. Slow it down. Just like life. Work it out.

Slow it down. You know what's funny? Because I never played basketball, but I played baseball. Uh-huh. And when things got hot, when the game was tense and on the line, coaches always said, slow the game down. Yep. Wow, isn't that good? So when you're working out, you have to do things slower. Yeah, right. Because you need the— you need the negative to tear the muscle, right? Um, when you're breathing, you need to slow it down. I don't know what it is in basketball, but like, hey, you know, in life you got to slow the game down a little bit because you're going to miss something.

Everything's moving at the same time. You got them moving this way, then moving here. You're here. Slow down so you can see. Where are your best options? This is good. Dude, this is like—

Oh my goodness. Think about the parallel between what you're going through right now.

I know, this is crazy. It's— Slow down. Slow down. Where are you? Slow down. Because I know it seems tight. I know it seems like the clock is winding down. But you're not in lack right now. You got the ball. You got the ball on your side of the court. Yeah.

Slow down. You're going down the court with 25 seconds left and you're the one with the ball in your hand. You're in control of it. You control it, right? Yes. And so my wife tells me all the time, she goes, hey, you need to take a minute. Yeah. You know, and I never listen, right? I'm a flawed human. I'm like, no, I need to push. And it's more of like, hey, you know, just be grateful for where you're at right now. Still work, but don't worry about what's next. And that's very hard for me because I'm like— we've already covered this— I'm always looking for that another level because my biggest fear is staying the same. Like, I, I think that's decay. Like, if I look, if I look at myself a year from now and I look back and there's no difference, like, that, that'll destroy me. That is like the thing that I fear most, other than the, the normal fears, like something happening to my children or something happening to me and me not being there for my children.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Staying the same scares me so much because I was never allowed to do it when I was a kid. My dad was like, no, you gotta, you gotta progress. Yeah, you like, you're not good.

Deal with that now as an adult. How do you tell your little self— now I'm interviewing How do you tell your little self it's okay to take your time? You don't have to change right now.

You know, it's hard. I think it comes with support, right? Like my wife, my business partners, and you know, my good friend Pat told me one day, and he's one of my partners, he goes, hey, look, we can't worry about all the things that we're not getting right now. The world hasn't caught up yet. We know where we're gonna be, but the world has to catch up. The only thing you need to do is worry about how you make the show the best show it could possibly be. So you control the controllables, right? If you're struggling in something, if you're overweight, control what you put in your mouth. That's the one thing you can control. It's hard. It's not easy. But you get, you have to physically, no one's shoving the ice cream and the cupcakes and the pizza down your throat, right? You're the one putting it in there. Yeah. So if you look at things in terms of, How do I take a beat? How do I slow it down a little bit? It's just like, I'm in this moment. I'm going to control what I can. So for me, in every single moment that I have, every single conversation, or if it's a meeting, I'm controlling what I can right now with you.

My end of it, which is being engaging and having a great conversation. Yeah. And giving the audience something that they can really hold on to. I'm like, whoa, like, hey, this is good. That's the only thing you can do. 'Cause if you try to control everything else that's out of your control, like extrinsic thing, like external, you are going to drive yourself crazy. And trust me, I fell at that a lot. I'm not perfect, but I have to rewind. I'm like, okay. Let it go. What's like Elsa? Let it go. Yeah, let it go.

Or like Bill Harville, that's my dad's name. No fighting. Just let it go.

Just let it go. Let it be. Let it be. Let it be. Wow. Have you ever listened to the words of Let It Go?

Not really. Do you know this?

Well, I mean, I have 3, I have 2 daughters, you know, of course. I mean, if you listen to that song, it's actually a freaking jam.

I'm going to listen to it today. Yeah. On my way back.

Did you listen to Drop the World?

No, I, no, I didn't listen to that one. I listened to, is it that one? In the moment you gotta let, you only get one shot. Oh, Lose Yourself. Yes, Lose Yourself. Lose Yourself. Lose Yourself.

So for the audience, um, for some context and clarification, she was stuck in traffic and she kept texting. I was like, hey, don't worry about it, like, we're fine. I'm not going anywhere. You get here safely. But hey, I like to listen to Eminem when I need to calm down. It probably doesn't make sense, but hey. And then she started listening to Eminem and you chose Lose Yourself.

Lose Yourself.

My favorite Eminem verse ever is his verse on, um, Drop the World with Lil Wayne.

Okay, I gotta listen.

I can't recall. It— you've heard it.

You know it by heart.

Oh, I mean, except when Eminem starts doing his thing. It's like, I try. It's like, you know, I can't really keep up. But, um, but really is like, when someone tells me like, hey, tell me something about yourself. And I'm, you know, I'm gonna sit here and tell you like, hey, you want to know where my mind is at and everything that I've gone through? Listen to that verse. Okay. Listen to that verse because that plays on loop in my mind. And when you get in the car, you're going to text me afterwards. I'm going to tell you right now, you'll be like, dude, wow. Because that verse is about being overlooked by people. It is about don't sleep on me. It's where your head will lie on that pillow. Permanently. It's Betty Bye. Like, it's like, literally, don't overlook me. Yeah, like, I'm coming. Like, this is it. And for me, it just— those types of songs, like, especially Eminem, like, he— like, dude, he fills my soul, dude. Like, that dude is the GOAT. Like, he is so darn good.

Yeah, I love Eminem. Yeah, he's a legend. Yeah. Do you think he should do the next Super Bowl? What do you think about an Eminem Super Bowl? Would he bring out people?

Yeah, I think, I think he would probably bring out Lil Wayne. He'd probably bring out Drake. They would do Forever for sure, which is another amazing Eminem verse. Um, you know, Dre— forgot about Dre. Yes, he would have to bring out Dre. He would have to.

No, he has to start with that.

Yeah, right there, right there. Like, yeah, that's the initial. Then I think they go, you know, Drake, Lil Wayne. Um, I don't know, I just think that, you know, what would I think about an Eminem Super Bowl? I don't care who's playing, I'm going.

I mean, the M Bowl. Yeah, yeah, it's like Slim Shady Bowl.

Exactly. You ready for the Super Bowl? I'm like, I'm ready to see Eminem. Like, that, that's it for me. Like, I don't— the whole game's already scripted, they already know who's gonna win. I don't really give a shit about that, but I want to see Eminem.

We have to see him.

I have to see Eminem. Um, you know, it's funny because I think music, right, and, and we get on tangents a lot, but for me it's always connected. I think as people, we're always looking for inspiration in certain areas. And for me, sometimes it's— a lot of times it's music. And so because I can literally throw something on and I can be in the most intense moment and it can calm me down. Yes. Because of what it means, right? What that verse means or whatever, it calms me down. and it gets me to focus.

You feel seen almost. It's like someone is speaking exactly what you're thinking. 'Cause sometimes when you're going through, for me at least, going through so much, you can't put words to it. Then you hear the right song. It's like, exactly it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Yes. It's like, wait, you get me. Yep. You made this song for me. Mm-hmm. But then there's that connection. Like, well, if I feel that way and you felt that way, Like, dude, that's cool.

Yes. You know, I've realized that in college everyone thinks that they're going through things on their own, but so many people have the same or similar struggles or trying to find a similar path where we're all connected. We're all connected in some way.

That's so good. It's a great segue because we live in a world right now where we think that everybody's different, right? We want to fight about things and, you know, you don't believe the same things I do. Yeah. I'm not saying that you don't, but I'm saying just in general, we don't believe exactly how I think you should believe or how you think I should believe. So now I don't like you. I think the main thing that people are missing, and I had this great conversation. Have you ever seen Scandal? You know what?

That's one I haven't watched. And I I'm gonna probably get canceled for that. Everybody's seen Scandal and I have not. I do not know why, but I am this type of person, when something is hyped, I don't even touch it. Yeah, but it's on Netflix right now and I've been thinking about getting into Scandal with Miss Olivia Pope. Amazing, amazing.

Yeah, it was only 7, 8 seasons. It really upsets me because it was so good. It was just so good in so many different ways. I think I was just too young. Probably, probably.

But, but I mean, I'm getting into it because everybody's been telling me.

—on my, like, 7th time through it. Really? Well, I met— so Tony Goldwyn plays President Fitz. Yes. And I was in DC in January for some TV, me and Matt. And he's yelling at me, you know, Matt, get over there and talk to that guy. I'm like, who is it? I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So I sit down and I hear him talking, and I'm texting my nephew who was coming to hang out at the new station in the green room. We ended up having some type of conversation, you know, and I wasn't looking at him yet and his voice sounded super familiar. I was like, there's no way in God's green earth it's this man. There's no way. I look up, I'm like, holy shit. It's him. I'm like, hey, what's going on, man? He's like, hey, nice to meet you. Like, and we had this long conversation, right? And he asked me what I do, what I'm doing there. And I told him. I'm like, you know, this is what I do. He's like, oh my gosh, my daughter and I just started our own podcast. Like, so what are your thoughts?

I'm like, my thoughts? Like, dude, you're, you know, you're Tony Goldwyn, buddy. Like, do what you do, bro. They need no thoughts. They need no thoughts. Just do you. But, but we had this deep conversation. We spoke for probably 30 minutes, and we're working with his PR to schedule something for me to go up in New York and do something with him. But he said to me this, he's like, you know what, I just wish that people realize that we're more connected and more similar than we are dissimilar. I'm like, dude, I feel the same exact way because like we're all connected, we're all energy. And I just think it's super important, especially in these times now that people Okay. There's so much allegiance to certain figures, right? Certain people. And those certain people that everybody admires, right? And is fighting for. Two sides fighting. America's divided. We all know that. Yes. They're fighting. Am I to do this? No, no, no. Those figures don't give a shit about you. This is a movie. This is a PR stunt. Everything is scripted. Everything is a misdirection from something else. Come on, guys. It is built for us to fight.

But if we can just sit there and say, you know what? I'm not buying into it. And I won't buy into it. I clearly won't. I refuse to hang out with people that want to talk crap about other people because they don't believe the same things. Like, no, this is America. We're all here because this is, this is the place that, that is supposed to embrace differences.

Yeah, right. I think, I think my take on everything, because I've lived as a news reporter, I've lived in Amarillo, I've lived in, I've lived in rural areas when I first started, and of course now I'm covering out here, um, The people that I've met are always so interesting. And I met more pleasant people than I've met nasty people. And I've met some nasty people. Yeah. But I've met so many pleasant people, black, white, blue, brown, purple. And it doesn't matter for real for me what other— what side of this country you're wanting to be on. Yeah, I'm with you. What's your heart look like? How do you treat people when you're upset? How do you treat people when you're sad or disappointed? And what do you need and how can I help you? That's what we're here for.

We're here to serve.

We're here to serve each other. I need you, you need me. I need you to survive. That's actually a song.

Is it? What song is that?

I need you, you need me. Oh, she's singing now. I need you to survive. You never heard this?

No, what is it?

It's a Christian, it's a gospel song. But I learned it growing up. It's like, it is his will, whatever, every, I forgot, Google it. I forget it, but it is. Send it to me. I will, I will. Send it to me. I will listen to that Eminem song. You listen to this song. I forgot how it goes, but it's I Need You to Survive. And it's talking about just everyone needing each other. And I think we're getting away from that.

Yeah, I mean.

We've gone away from that. We are far past that line.

We are far past that line. And that's kind of one of the things that, you know, I always chuckle because at the beginning of the conversation I said there's always someone telling me that I need to do X or Y or Z. I have chosen to stay very neutral because I am very neutral. Yeah, I am very neutral about everything that goes on in this world. You do you. Keep the children safe. Protect the children. Don't put it in front of them. Let them make their decisions when they're, when they're grown-ups. But outside of that, we're cool. I mean, unless you're killing people and, you know, doing some raunchy stuff, then I'm not cool with it. But, you know, I just think that, you know, for me, I wanted this platform to be for everybody. Yeah, I want everybody to feel comfortable here.

You don't have to get into politics if that's not your thing. Not my Because that's like saying for me, being a lifestyle host, that I, I'm getting into policies and politics like that. Granted, I am a big advocate for women, and I am a big advocate for women of color, um, just because I am a Black woman and I know our experiences are different. And, um, and the way we are viewed, uh, the ways we are viewed are different, and we go through our own, um, I don't even wanna call it sacred. We go through our own experiences navigating corporate America and just this world, you know? Yeah. And I'm a huge advocate of giving women their platform to share their stories, but you won't see me going into policy and stuff on my platform for real. But I do talk, I would talk about the experience of, of Black womanhood.

I, I like that though. Right? Yeah. Because that's something you have experience in. And yes. And like we, like we said off air, like I don't have that experience. I don't know what that's like.

It is interesting. I mean, and it is interesting. I think for me and only my experience, I am a very direct Black woman and I have been told like, you can't be so direct because it makes you look aggressive. It makes you look like you're angry.

That's a trigger word. Yeah. That—

that trigger word for you? Not for me, but for Black women in general. Aggressive Black woman. Yes. And I don't like people say you're so passionate about it. I'm passionate about it. But what I'm saying, I'm just being very clear.

So someone says you're passionate.

I don't know how to take that these days. But like, so if we're having a conversation.

Yeah. And I said to you, I was like, Maya, I love your passion. You're very passionate.

That's decent. But I'm telling you about an issue that I think needs to be rectified. I understand you're passionate about it. I feel like that's a little condescending.

No, that's very condescending because what they're saying is, I understand you're passionate about it. They're saying like, I don't understand why you're passionate about it because I can't understand your perspective. And that's That's not how good conversations start, and it's definitely not how they end.

A lot of conversations are like that with me as a Black woman. I think I'm learning that in this world too, because I have this leadership aura about me. I am a leader. I see things a certain way, and I'm still learning how to talk to people in a way they can receive it. But because I'm a Black woman, I have seen where there is less room for error. In my field or for me, it's less room to make a mistake in how you're talking to someone. There's less room to get frustrated and get out your square a little bit when people are being unprofessional or just outright just not doing what they're supposed to do. And, you know, you get to a point where you— the bubble pops. Yeah. And Black women sometimes have to remember where we can't say exactly what's on our mind, literally, because we're a Black woman. And how dare this Black woman say that she is upset with something that way. "Oh my gosh, she's so aggressive," or overwhelmed. I've gotten that a lot. And I can't explain to you why this happens, but I can tell you it's happened to me a lot.

And I've had to figure out and talk with mentors, how do I navigate this water when you have 5 different managers who are all white, all men, or sometimes a white woman, and they see you and they are threatened by your passion. I knew you were going there.

I was already bringing my quotes up. You know, I think it's interesting because, you know, again, I said I don't have that experience, right? And just so you know, to clarify, you don't ever have to temper anything around me. Ever, because I'm never going to think anything of anything. Yeah, we're friends now. So, but you know, when I look at what you said earlier about you're too small, you're too short, your hair's too big, you're not polished enough— those last two, to me, you're not polished enough and your hair's too big is a direct attack on my race, on your race. When you told me that, I'm like, I'm like, that's racist as shit, you know, because like, I don't even understand that, you know.

But you know what, going to an HBCU gave me tough skin a little bit, a little callous, because I know who I am. I'm a great Black woman. I'm very passionate in my own way. I'm very educated. I'm strong. I'm a leader. I'm motivated. I'm ambitious. I am kind. And I learned all of those things about what it means to be a Black woman at an HBCU. I became proud of who I was as a Black woman. Had I gone to like a PWI, 'cause Minnesota, I was around all white people and I was in cross country and like, I remember the cross country girls used to talk about going to go canoeing and what are you gonna do for the summer?

I'm white and that sounds horrible. I'm gonna go canoeing with my parents.

And I'm like, and a little girl from the hood, it's like, I've never been canoeing. And they make you feel excluded. But going to a Black college where I felt proud to be Black, proud to be a Black woman, proud to be an educated Black woman from an HBCU. Yeah, you could tell me all you want. And it's confusing to me because I'm proud of me. Why aren't you accepting that? And I realize you don't have to.

No, you don't have to. It's not for them. No, it's not for them. Those are great points, though. But it's funny you said the canoeing. Oh, yeah. You know, I think, you know, and a lot of people don't know this about me, and it's something that I've had to put together over the years, like, because not knowing my biological father, really, like, not even knowing what my ethnicity is. Well, I mean, I've learned that there's a lot of Spain, like Spain, like Spanish, American Indian, that's from my mom's side. I knew that. Lebanese from my dad's side. Like, there was a ton of different things thrown at me. My potential DNA, like who I am, very little of it was Caucasian. But I look white, so people automatically go, you're white. And that's fine. I don't care. But I grew up in the East Bay in California. And you're talking to some little girl from the hood. What I learned over the years is that I actually grew up in the ghetto too. I didn't know, Like, I didn't know as a kid. I just thought that, you know, walking out of middle school and running from the Bloods was normal.

Hmm. That's your experience. That's my experience. Yeah. They would wait at the path and they didn't like me because I had a— I mean, I had a flat top, right? You know, I mean, like, you know, the mullet back in the day. This is the '90s, early '90s, right? No, like, yeah, early, late '80s, early '90s. Yeah. And so, like, But you go through those things and you just think it's normal, right? You don't understand when you're in that world and you have that kind of stuff going on, the gangs and a melting pot of races, you don't understand Black, white, brown. You just like, these are the people I live around. And the longer that I'm around and I look back at it and it's like, I'm like, no wonder I'm so diverse. It's because I've been in this. I literally feel comfortable around everybody 'cause I grew up in it.

Did you ever experience any of your Black or brown friends being treated differently than you growing up? And did you ever feel like you needed to advocate because of your privilege?

It's a really hard question. And my silence isn't because I'm not gonna answer, it's because I'm, I'm scanning through the eras. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I'm scanning through the eras of when did I notice this? Growing up, for me, I didn't feel privileged. Right? Outside looking into some other people, yes, I'm privileged. I can wear that. I'm never going to argue with somebody that says you're privileged, white privilege. I'm okay.

you never thought about it growing up.

I never thought about it growing up because we didn't, you know, like, yeah, we had things, but like, you know, it wasn't just, shit wasn't just handed to me. Right. Yeah. Right. So, but I also haven't experienced the other side. So I have to take their perspective and be like, you're probably right. It's not for me to defend.

And sometimes I give people grace because they don't realize it in the moment. I mean, you're only exposed to what you're exposed to.

Yeah. Like, and so like, for me, like, that part of your question, the privileged part, is I don't understand it because I don't ever feel privileged. My life hasn't been easy, but I can also appreciate it, appreciate the fact that it's been a lot easier than a lot of other people. To answer your question about like my Black friends being treated differently, not growing up In fact, it was the Black kids picking on me, taking my lunch money, you know, and then my Guamanian buddies beating their ass, right? Because I couldn't protect myself. I was just— I was a dork, right? But as I got older, my best friend I played baseball with in college is Black, and I did see it. We talk about it a lot, you know, like, you know, he was— he's angry. No, he wasn't. Wasn't angry. He's being mistreated. He had every right to have certain feelings about how he was being treated, you know. And, and again, you know, this is Louisiana. You know, I went to school in Texas.

Yeah.

So, yes, I've, I've heard shit in a locker room. Yeah. That I never heard before. Yeah. And I'm like, did you just say that word out loud? Like, did you just say that to that person, like, directly? Like, it blew me away because I never heard it. I never heard it back home. You know, I was, you know, 21, 20, 21 when I went to LSU. That was the first time I ever heard somebody pop off that word to someone directly, and they got their ass handed to them in the locker room. I, I never—

it's just different. It's crazy how we're all in the same country, but it's different experiences in different regions of the world. Yeah. Or the country. Yeah.

And so to me, it wasn't until then. Yeah. Where it was obvious. Yeah. You know? And there's a lot of hurtful things that people would say. You know? Gotta have one. The token. Like, how fucked up is that? It's like, that's a human being. So I don't, for me, it's like, I always had a hard time dealing with that. Because it hurt me too, because I was listening to it. I care about these people. They're my friends. So it's just, I don't know if that answers your question. Well, yeah.

I mean, yeah, you realize, you soon realized that sometimes we're treated differently, even if you weren't growing up, you know? And for me, that going to Texas, being in Minnesota and my dad, my dad's biracial. And so he always, we should say, I need you to diversify your friend group. You need to have different friends who are different cultures and ethnicities and come from different backgrounds. And I never understood why. And then he's just like, this is how the world is. But then I didn't ever get the, the, okay, but what about my Blackness? And, and I am Black, but whatever. But going to school, I got a whole different outlook on what Black means. And that's what my dad taught me and took what I learned at school and I brought it to corporate America and I became just this. That's amazing. This girl.

I've never had this conversation with somebody. Really? Nah. Nah. Well, welcome to the couch. She flipped it on me. She flipped it on me. But I love being asked hard questions like that. Yeah. You know, you know, because growing up, like I keep saying, when I was growing up, like my friend group, there was me, I'm just like mixed of everything. Yeah, you know, a couple white dudes, Palestinian, an Indian, Jewish. Wow, like a Mexican. For real, like, this is like— that was my— that was my baseline, you know. So it—

but as you, you get to go into these different parts of the world, it's different, but you take what you know of who you are And you didn't allow people in the locker room to taint your mind. You still loved and still had a heart for people because you grew up with so many people and you didn't have these thoughts of stereotypes in your head. So that's respectable.

Yeah. And it's also ignorance, right? Ignorance is bliss, right? I had no idea. You know, it's so like, this one always gets me too. If you have a reality TV show, and there's a Black male or a Black woman and also like an equal, you know, white male or white woman, right? And either the white woman and the, and the Black woman are both going off the rails, who are they going to look at? The Black woman. I'm sorry, I'm gonna say it like that's, that, that's what society's conditioned to do.

So take that, and that's my experience sometimes in corporate America. That's why it's like I It's like you are playing Russian roulette if you get impatient or fed up and express it in a way that's not— in a way, even if you express it in a way that you wouldn't normally do, and somebody else does it, they're going to say, "Well, Lamai, you have to— you can't control everyone else, but you can control your actions." And it's like, don't communicate how you feel.

Don't, because you're not allowed to. Nope. Because your skin color. You know, these are hard conversations, and that's why I appreciate it so much, because like no one's ever asked me that question. I was like, oh shit, like no one's ever asked me that question. But we're very transparent here, right? And, and I just feel that they're important questions. And you know, the one though that, that really tripped me up was the privilege. And what we have to understand is, because I bet you people listen to that and they're like, I know him. He's worked his ass off. That's not what she's saying. That's not what she's saying. You have to be open to other perspectives. Just because it's not true in my mind, it doesn't mean it's not true in somebody else's mind because they have different experiences in life and have gone through different things. To prove that I might have had an easier road.

And not even just an easier road as like things being handed to you. But just like I said, you can be a Black girl, white girl in corporate America or whatever things they're acting the same way. Who are they going to look at? And like if you and— and I'm not saying this happened to you at all, but if you are in a car and your Black friend is in the car with you and there is a hostile racist cop, who is he going to look at first? There are just some things in society we just have to accept that there's things that you may be able to do that your Black friends weren't able to do and get the same treatment as a result of those things. And you guys could have really worked together and grit and grinded your whole lives. Yeah, but other people don't know that either when they look at you.

Yeah. You know, I respect that, and I think you're correct. I know you're right. You know, it's, uh, but when it's something you don't think about, you know, it takes a special conversation with a great person to bring that out, right? And I think it's a conversation that I think a lot of people might be triggered by, right? I mean, like, I bet you there's people squirming right now, but guys, just What if it were true? And if it is true, then what's so bad about it? Like, think, I mean, like really think, like if it's not gonna destroy who you are as a human being, being open to other people's perspective on how they view life, that is true connection.

I think I have privilege too. I have pretty privilege. And I think the people joke about it, but I am—

Oh, that's a thing.

No, that's a thing. Yes. It is. It is. Yes. It's definitely a thing. I've gone through and I've been with other, I won't even say like ugly friends or anything, think like that, but I'm not—

I don't have any ugly friends.

I don't have any ugly friends. I refuse. But I had— and pretty privilege, and then even being just a lighter skin complexion from other Black women. Um, I remember in high school, I don't think of myself as light-skinned, never have. Like, light skin, dark skin, never. Like, you don't look at color. I have a dark-skinned mother. I was raised around dark-skinned women. I never thought, oh, I'm light-skinned, I'm better, or I'm caramel, I'm better. But in high school I had a friend and we were just joking or whatever, and I think we're trying to like joke about who this boy was going with. And I'm like, he's going with the light-skinned girls. And she got so upset at me, and I did not understand why me saying I'm light-skinned meant anything to her. But her experience as a darker complexion Black girl was completely different from And I could have been like, she's wrong, or whatever, or squirmed or whatever. But I had to take what she said into consideration that she gets treated differently. And I can't say, well, my mom is dark-skinned, I don't see that. I'm sorry. I did not know you were treated differently.

Yeah. Because of your complexion. Because of your complexion. So I always kept that in mind. Pretty privilege. Being seen, seen as she's a pretty girl or seen as she's a light, lighter-skinned girl so she can get away with other things. Even if I don't feel like I'm experiencing that, it's probably true in some instances.

I believe that 100%. You know, I, I believe that, you know, I don't look at myself as an extremely handsome individual. I'm marginally handsome. You're like a Ken doll. I'm like a Ken doll.

You guys are all Ken dolls. That's funny.

But I know I'm not super ugly either, right? And I know that, and I truly believe this because I know I have a really good voice. It has always been told to me, your voice is amazing. It calms me. It soothes me. It's gentle. I know that's a gift, but I also know that if I were really ugly, then this show wouldn't be really where it's at. I really, I really do believe that. I believe that everybody has certain marketability. Everybody, you know, like, okay, I could see it. Image. Like, yeah, he has image. And if I didn't have that image, I mean, I could, you know, even if I, even if I were super ugly but I had image and had something like some type of it factor, like, then yes, I would, I would progress. So I believe it. I mean, I'm a firm believer in it.

It's an ugly reality to where we are.

But people want to bury their head in the sand about it. They don't want to talk about it.

You got to face it. Face the adversity. Yeah.

Face the adversity. Yeah. It's part of it.

You can't avoid it. And advocate for others who can't advocate for themselves. That's important. Very important. If you see something happening and I'm not saying go picket fence rioting and all of that, but advocate for that person, try to learn more about their experience. And try to ask questions to see how we can help each other.

100%.

Because we're here for each other. Yeah. What a conversation.

I know. Oh my God. It went down a road, didn't it? It went down a road it's never gone on this show. This girl's getting things out of me that it's never been talked about.

I hope that people don't cancel me. I've never been canceled before. No. You can't.

No one's getting canceled from this. Actually, I have been canceled before.

You have? Yes. My first— your first what? My first reporting job, I did a story about vaping. Okay. This man was in the hospital because he was vaping. And like, I did the story and I like talked to him about his lung failure or whatever it was. And then I— and then I also interviewed like a vaping store owner to get both sides of this, whatever they want to call it.

That's real reporting. But go ahead.

The vaping store owner went to the guy, paid his medical doctor's notes, and told the guy to say that I was lying about the story. And the National Association of Vapers, which is a thing—

National Association of Vapers—

Vapers Association something— they grilled me. This is my first job. Oh my God.

You're reporting on a story, for crying out loud.

We had to, like, put out the entire, like, raw interview of the guy in the hospital and, like, the transcripts. And stuff. And like, he had to come on the— the— oh my God, yes. And then the— the store owner had to apologize, but he also like made fun of like me on camera. I had said 'ax' instead of 'ask' because I was new and nervous on camera and like my words wouldn't come out right. And he was like, 'You better ask somebody,' making fun of me being Black and ghetto. Yeah, that was my first job.

That's tone deaf, man. Yeah, that was in Amarillo, Texas.

Well, that makes sense. But like, that's when I first got canceled, and I guess I got rehired after that.

Well, see, there you go. You came back. You didn't get fully canceled. Yeah, you're good. You're good. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I'm, I'm really excited to stay connected with you. You know, when these types of conversations happen, people, they become my friends. So you're stuck with me now. Sorry, sorry for it. But I'm looking forward to seeing what you're gonna do next. If there's anything I could do for you, like, I'm here. Like, I want to see you succeed, but I'm also here just to cheer your ass on. Okay, whatever you need. Thank you. Thank you. So, all right guys, what an amazing conversation from— with an amazing human being. And listen, her Instagram handle will be in the in the show notes. So please go take a look, follow her up, and watch what she's going to do from here on out in her career. Because I know whatever she's going to do, whatever she chooses to do, she's going to excel and be blessed at it and give lots of value to the people that are here in this world. So guys, I say this all the time. I say this all the time.

Adversity is the real classroom. And if you face some of it, don't run from it. That's your gift. That is your moment where you can put your face in that shit and move forward and get better in your life and better your life for the people that are in your life, like your loved ones, your friends, all your family and your co-workers and whatever it is, your dogs, your cats. I don't care if you have guinea pigs, that's your choice, them too.

And the rabbits.

And the rabbits. Yes, the rabbits. They all matter. Rabbits matter. So listen guys, share this someone you know, love, and trust. And like, let us know what you think. Like, we, we are happy you sat here for over an hour and listened to this conversation. We hope you were entertained, but more than anything, we hope you're inspired to see other perspectives and just understand that your perspective isn't the only one. So until next time, guys, stay determined.