Transcript of The Bill Belichick Snub: Why Everyone is Defending the GOAT | Plus: Super Bowl Rematch with Gregg Rosenthal

Okay, I'm just going to come clean. I didn't vote for Bill Belichick to get a gold jacket, mostly because I don't have a vote, but I want to make sure tough guys like Jimmy Johnson don't call me a coward. Yes, if you missed it, Jimmy Johnson, coach, husband, spokesman for Wiener Growth, Pill extends, and now empath is mad, big mad. Bill Belichick didn't get into the Hall of Fame. Fine, sure. We need an investigation of what happened here in an overhaul of the process. But can everybody settle down a little bit? I get a right-wing pundit/hot taker who doesn't watch much football. Steven A. And others think this is a disgrace. And yeah, somebody who loves the yardstick history provides, I'm of course interested in the hall. Self-serious and pious as it is. And as I've said a million times, you're either a Hall of Fame or you aren't. We don't need a 15-year lag to reassess the situation. Access inventory at one position or because some senior player's window is expiring shouldn't be factors. I'll tell you what, from here on out, I'm just going to make a list and we'll go off of that.

Or we can just stick with this biased and vindictive process. T. O. Is a top three or so receiver of the Super Bowl era, and he had to wait because he did sit-ups and some other Who are you and apples sauce. You got to understand, Ken loves the little bit of nuance, the Hall of Fame plus standard of not just getting in But doing it on the first ballot, you're extra great now. Or famous? Yes, even in the Hall of Fame, there are clicks, and yes, it's very dumb. Same goes for the Baseball Hall of Fame not having the home runner hit king. Voters are being petty with the weight of authority that has no transferable power outside this one little environment. They're lunch ladies. All that said, I do love Bob Kraft and Tom braided leading the course for Belichick, the martyr. Who's done more to diminish him than those two? Kraft says Belichick's the best coach of all time, then why'd you fire him? You fired the best coach ever. Do I have that right? And braided says, If Belichick's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, there's really no coach that should ever be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

But again, Tom, this suggests You think Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, which you actively disproved when you showed him up by moving to Tampa and winning a title nine minutes later. Obviously, the coach has won more Lombardis than anyone, including Lombardi, needs to be in the hall, and I'm quite sure he will be soon. But his time in Tampa, plus Belichick's Cleveland years, plus whatever's going on with him and Jordan at UNC, all say the same thing. The Emperor's got no clothes. No, wait, it's worse than that. He's not nude. He's got that ratty sweatshirt on, which, by the by, is a good metaphor for what his head coaching run is. Stained permanently, sure, but iconic. Without braided, though, that sweatshirt is just something that's been around a long time with lots of holes in it. Now, as people in Chapel Hill can attest, that sweatshirt barely even counts as close. Can somebody please put a gold jacket on that man and end this mellow drama and whatever materials left, send over to Jimmy Johnson to dry his tears? Sheesh. Let's start the show. Yes, hi, and hello, my fellow football Americans, and welcome to Football America.

We're presented as ever by our pals over at DraftKings. Draftkings, the Crown is yours, and we are now maybe 11 seconds closer to Super Bowl 60 than we were when that intro music played. In the meantime, this is episode 47, the football player who wore that number best in pro football history. Mel Blunt, obviously, of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Also, shout out to John Lynch, who was a gold jacket himself. Also, if you're an old man like me, you may remember Glenn Blackwood, who played for the Miami Dolphins alongside his brother Kyle back in the '80s. How many of you guys are like that now in the NFL? I guess there are a few instances of brothers, but on the same team and in the same position. They were the two safeties for the killer bees back then for Don Chula. And then Andre Kiraelenko, AKA AK47 from the Utah Jazz. Any that I'm forgetting there, fellows? Gino and Mike. Mike and Gino Fuentes?

Kiko Alonso comes to memory, although not really relevant.

I I'm going to tell you, Kiko Alonso, before we started, for you to just come in and swoop him away. It's the only guy I had. Perfect for the Miami Dolphins. Kiko Alonso. Half-cuban, half-Columbian guy somehow ended up at Oregon, and now Gino just comes in and swoop it. So you're funny. You talk about brothers being good teammates. Not happening right now, Dave.

No, indeed. No, indeed. Powerful, powerful message. Poignant. Mel Blunt, speaking of old man stuff, in case you don't know, I talk about the biggest inflection points of the Super Bowl era. Maybe the biggest this side of free agency is in 1978, the Mel Blunt Rule is put in because Mel Blunt, 6'4 of him and all of that, was too physical for NFL pass catchers. They couldn't get around him, so they had make a rule that you could only handle the pass catcher so much. And that freed up, that liberated the receivers, and the passing game really opened up. And as a side note, as a Stealers fan, I should point out, people thought, Well, that's the end of this would be Stealers' dynasty because they're a ground and pound team that leans on its defense. And then Terry Bradshaw in '78 goes out and wins the MVP, slinging the ball all over the place to Stallworth and Swann and all the rest of them. There you have it. Hey, subscribe, would you? We appreciate doing so on YouTube. The Football America page is thriving. Make it thrive a little bit more. With your participation, we love the comments that you put in there.

I like to bounce off of my fellow football Americans, answer their questions and so on, and also do so wherever you find your audio podcasts. Right now, we have some other stuff to talk about. Mike, Gino, Sup, Campbell and me have to figure out here in advance of our trip up to Santa Clara, California. I'll be there to start next week. Super Bowl 60 Week, San Francisco, Santa Clara, all the rest of it. But first, let's get into this Super Bowl a little bit, shall we? If you haven't heard, it's the Seahawks and the Patriots and one of the great voices on pro football, analytically and otherwise. It's our pal Greg Rosenthal. Let's talk to him right now, shall we? All right, let's get to it. It's the main event. I'm thrilled to be yapping with this fellow because he's been one of the more prominent Patriots fans in my life for, what, 15 years or so. He's the host of NFL Daily, also back '40s and free agents with our other pal, Daniel Jeremiah. It's the boss, Greg Rosenthal. Look at him glowing. He had to wait three or four years from braided to Drake May.

How are you, fella?

What was it? It was eight years, right? Seven years. That long? Okay. But that day, I tried to be a gutless Patriots fan and almost dropped them. It's never going to get any better than Belichick and braided when he left. But when Drake May was drafted, I believed. I was actually surprised how long it took a lot of people covering the Patriots to realize Drake May was the truth. I knew it last year with Gerard Mayo. Even Gerard Mayo couldn't put the stink on him.

2020 hindsight now. This is not that. You in the moment felt good about... I always like that as philosophically, when it was Payton or Ryan Leif and all of that, I always have said, I'd like to be have the second pick because now this avails you of any blame or finger pointing. Like, What did you want me to do? The only guy who was left was that one. That's what the Patriots basically fell into with Drake May, right?

I love Drake May as a prospect. Nate Thais, I think, was the first one talking him up saying, well, actually, I think Drake May going into his last year at UNC was 1A and Caleb was 1B. And I'm like, oh, who's this guy? So I started watching him. He's with Josh Downs there at UNC. And it's like, this is my guy. I'm going to root for this guy. I love watching him wherever he lands. When the Patriots and Bill Belichick beat Sean Payton, Russell Wilson, I believe, and the Broncos on Christmas Eve to drop themselves from the two to the three pick, I thought we lost them because at that point, it was expected he would be one, two. Then they get him at number three. I was convinced. I think he was much better as a rookie than people realized. He was already obviously going to be one of the guys, I think, as a rookie. Just the team was terrible.

All right. We could dive in the MVP talk and all of that, and maybe we'll have time for that. By the way, that draft class already, if Drake May wins, enters itself collectively into the conversation of best QB class of all time, right?

I mean, you have to stack it up year over year, but yes- I mean, you're in good shape at minimum. It's the best start any draft class has ever had. I know Moreno was ridiculous the first couple of years, but to have Caleb one game away from the conference Championship, to have Bo Nicks having made it and maybe would be in the Super Bowl if he had stayed healthy. And then what Jaden Daniels did, yeah, nothing tops that.

Right. Jaden Daniels is an afterthought already, which is weird. Okay, Okay, we both care about our history, and we both like playing what if. That's a great what if you just floated there. What would the Patriots look like if they had Jaden Daniels from the jump starting in 2024? All right, last thing's first. We've already yapped for too many minutes for this to be the first thing we talk about, but still, final score, Super Bowl 60. We got to get you on the record.

Oh, this is the first time I've had to do this. I'll go 27, 26. Boregales with a field goal at the buzzer, the Miami product. Yeah.

Let me tell you this. You look positively dapper, swell in that natty sweater that you're wearing there. I got to tell you this from a fashion standpoint, the uniform, it frowns on Super Bowl 60 if the Patriots are going to really end up wearing that white get-up that they wore in Denver and prior. It's a very unattractive. And then I think the Seahawks are going to go all navy. This is the biggest distance in a uniform matchup of what the reality is going to be versus what's available in the closet. If you would have gone Seahawks throwbacks against Pat Patriot, that might stand as, I don't want to get hyperbolic, the best uniform matchup in Super Bowl history.

I totally agree, largely because I think the Seahawks throwbacks are my number one pick. I would take those over, literally any. I think the Patriots wearing those Whites are the best that they can do. I've never liked the Flying Elvis. In general, I'd have never loved their uniforms. I think that's the best they can do, so I support them.

All right. I want to talk about this, that, and the other with you, but just a little X and O analysis from somebody who's really good at doing it. What scares you about the Seahawks as they match up against the Patriots? Where can they expose or take advantage of something with New England?

Well, I think they're the best team in the NFL. I thought them and the Rams were the two best teams all season. And so in general, I just think that they're a better team. But up front, especially, if you think you're at a starting point when the Patriots have the ball, that there's almost no scenario where the Patriots' offensive line is going to match up well. The Seahawks, as good as they are getting pressure, they're even better at short yardage situations, stopping them. Leonard Williams, Byron Murphy, those two create possibilities for everyone on the outside. I've been worried about Will Campbell all season and Jared Wilson in the offensive line. The fact that we're coming into the Super Bowl with Drake May play in his worst football of the year. I'm happy it'll be better weather, but that could just be a mismatch up front. And then does he get a little skittish, which he's been in the playoffs?

I will I'll say this, and it's almost third rail stuff when people go like, he's got surprising athleticism, and we know that that's code for he's white when people do that stuff, but the inverse of Lamar Jackson. Okay, he could run, but let's see him throw the ball. The opposite is true of Drake May, in my opinion. In fact, he puts the game away with his legs. Why are we not celebrating that? That counts as a good quarterback play.

I absolutely did in the moment, and I think you're right. The fact that he got through this game and I think did what he was coached to do. Watching that game back, though, there were some open receivers where I felt like he was not pulling the trigger, which was not the Drake May that I saw all year, who was playing really fast and loose. It just reminds me a little bit of how he started his career where you could almost see that he was maybe a little tight in these spots. I just want him to be the free, freakish athlete that he is and trust to what he sees. And hopefully, McDaniels can scheme some guys open because on the outside, when they have the ball, it looks like a mismatch against this secondary. But McDaniels has got two weeks. He's been in this spot before, and I think they should be able to figure some things out.

By the way, just before we got going here, I asked you, you said something about, well, I thought that may deserve more MVP consideration or something to that effect. I think he should be the MVP, and maybe Stafford gets it. But as a reminder, I don't care what their two schedules or their NFL They weren't playing Big West teams at any point during the NFL season. When did it stop mattering that you're in first place versus what Matthew Stafford was, which was third place? And end of conversation. Their stats are approximate, so that's that.

That's what I've been holding on to, is that the history of quarterbacks winning MVP is nonexistent if they're not a top three seed in their conference. And the stats are not close if you get into really the dorky stuff, the success rate, the EPA per play, the stuff under pressure. Oh, yeah.

Just like the Hall of Fame voters are deep diving who they're giving their votes to for a gold jacket. Yes. I'm just applying the standard that's available to the one that those guys are applying here. We don't need the advanced metrics because the voters are not applying them.

That's fair. And to me, the biggest difference, not just that the record and the seating was the legs. I mean, If everything else is close, you have one of the most valuable rushers in the league at quarterback, his success rate in terms of his scrambles. He literally scramble more than every quarterback in the NFL this year. Maybe he doesn't want to do that his entire career, but it was incredibly important for their team this year. You have none of that with Stafford, and so that, to me, is the biggest difference.

One more thing, side-by-side comparison. One guy was throwing the ball to Pukinaku and Devante Adams. The other guy was throwing throwing it to old Stefan Diggs and Hunter Henry. I mean, what are you talking about? Those aren't comparable either. All right, listen. I touched on the Hall of Fame, the scandal of our times. This is what everybody is so empathetic about, is poor Bill Belichick. Question for you. Is Bill Belichick rooting for the Patriots to win this Super Bowl or lose?

Oh, he's run against him.

Why? Kraft and braided both stepped up and vouched that, Oh, he's the greatest head coach of all time. Of course, we got to give him a gold jacket.

Well, because one of the reasons Bill Belchick didn't make the Hall of Fame in his mind could be that Robert Kraft isn't helping him out. I wouldn't- You're GD, right?

Of course, That's the case. Bob Kraft's having it both ways. I love that they're the ones stepping up to talk about this. You fired him. If he's the greatest coach of all time, how do you make sense of that?

Well, firing was fine. I think it was more producing a documentary, extremely slanted to try to make your Hall of Fame case look better and make Bill Belichick look worse. And look, I think the immaturity of their relationship and how they can't share the glory reflects poorly on both of them. You would like to think if you're Robert Kraft's age or Bill Belichick's age, you would have learned something through your life about what really matters. And they haven't learned that. They're just petty and wanting all the credit for themselves, which bothers me as a Patriots fan. But it always bothered me when people would talk about Kraft, Belichick, and braided, and it's like, Oh, the three guys that really brought them the Super Bowl Who deserves the most... Why is Kraft in this conversation? He contributed, but he is nowhere near the other two guys. And the fact that he, I assume, is going to get in this year ahead of Belichick, will bother me. But it would be delicious and interesting if neither one of them got in.

Well, I mean- We'll find out. I have belly ache about the residents of Mount Pius who control who gets into these Halls of Fame. And of course, they're petty themselves, just like Kraft and Belichick are. They did this to T. O. They do it to Barry Bonds. They do it to Roger Clemens. They did it to Pete Rose. And the thing that is vexing one the things is the idea of inventory, a surplus of inventory at a certain position or an age group. Like, well, Elsy Greenwood. We got to like, Is he a Hall of Famer now? What happened between his retirement 25 years ago and now. It really is Bab Streisand territory. Like, well, things are simple then, or has time rewritten every line. The evidence hasn't changed, you've changed somehow, what I think you've shaved off the rough edges of reality and now kissed them, some of these guys, into the Hall of Fame, whether or not they deserve it.

It's weird- Wait, we're just going to move on in the conversation without recognizing the pipes that you just displayed?

Were those pipes?

Of a song? I don't even know. I have to admit. Maybe that's our- You don't know The Way We Were?

The Way We Were. That's pretty good. Thank you. Thank you, Greg. So that means that maybe Tom Brady's rooting for the Patriots?

Probably not.

I bet he'll say different.

I mean, yeah, he'll say different. It just won't feel as like, I'm the only one who's ever gotten the Patriots a Super Bowl special for him deep in his heart. But I hope that's not the case. I hope he can embrace Drake May in a way that former Patriots' quarterback, great Kam Newton, has really not done during this year. I thought that was that's shameful. By the way, Kam Newton just burying Drake May all season long after Drake May said he's his hero. But, but, braided, yeah I think he'll be rooting for the Seahawks.

Of course, of course. That's got to be the case no matter what he says publicly. And by the way, when was the Super Bowl in Houston? Whatever year that was, I had an early morning interview scheduled with with the quarterback of that team at the time. And he showed up and we were yapping about this and that. I said, You don't want your alma mater's current QB. He won the national championship a month ago, but you don't want him to win a second one now, right? The guy who I was talking to, his name was Deshaun Watson. He's like, Why wouldn't I want Trevor Lawrence to win another one? I said, Well, then that makes Trevor Lawrence the greatest quarterback in Clemson history, right? And you have an ego, right? And he chuckled and we continued to converse. An hour later, I was informed by our bosses that Deshawn had called in to complain that that was an out-of-bounce question. That was really great. Wow.

Which shows you you did hit on something, right? Because if you actually were cool about Trevor Lawrence getting that second title, you would take it as a fun joke. You know what I mean? You wouldn't call back an hour later. I think different people are wired differently. You may be painting with a broad brush. I think there are people like Tom Brady's spot or Deshaun Watson's spot who would be rooting for that team and the next guy. But the sense I get is Tom braided is not that guy.

People like Maurice Jones-Drew. Oh, wow, I can't just put this on him. The lamest thing is when guys say, Oh, I think the drink is Trevian Henderson, or something like that. And be like, You know I got to stand up for my runningbacks. Why? Why do you have to do that? Jeff Schwartz on the show all the time. You know I got to stand up for my old linemen. Why do you have to? You don't have to. Now, we get it. That's some weird fraternity you think you're a part of. Anyhow, we'll see if we have time for anything else, but I do have to get you on record on this because I know you and Daniel Jeremiah actually are investigating this on the show that you do in this window in the never-ending NFL calendar. Which QB or QBs are plausible What possible options do you think for Mike McCarthy's Pittsburgh Steelers in 2026? I know Aaron Rodgers' name has been floated, and Mike McCarthy says, Who wouldn't want him back? Well, Dave wouldn't want him back. It makes no sense to bring a 43-year-old man whose presence announces, We have no intention of making a Super Bowl run this year.

That's a weird announcement to make in springtime. How say you?

Well, I think he's coming back as long as he wants the job.

If he wants the job. I don't know if he wants it, though.

I think he wants it. Why wouldn't he want it? I was convinced all season. I was like, everyone was talking about him possibly retiring. Why would he retire? There will be a job available for him. You think he's just going to walk away as long as it doesn't go horribly wrong, which the playoff game did. I think he'll want to go back. And the fact that they're like, Hey, we're going be tough guys this year. We need an answer within a month. We can't wait longer. It just shows you they're going to do it as long as he wants to come back. And I don't think that's a good idea, but I also don't really have a lot of faith that they would do much better in free agency.

Okay, well, I want an answer to that question. But of course, at least Aaron Rodgers surely understands. He has a memory that dates back a month ago that will remind him that when big guys are chasing him, he doesn't like it and he really stinks. And he could walk away now, maybe not into the sunset that you see in movies, but he restored who he is in the NFL. Why would you push it at this point? The 43. I don't think Well, anyway, your thoughts on who the other options, if not, Rogers, would make some sense that are plausible.

Malik Willis is the prize, which is a wild place to be. But if they wanted to, I think that would be an attractive spot for him. I I actually think maybe that could rejuvenate Mike McCarthy a little. I could see that. Kyler Murray is going to be available potentially in a low-cost trade. I don't know if I see the fit there, but you could do worse. I think that's better than Aaron Rodgers. Then you get into the morass where it's like, Oh, would you want to trade for Eagles back up? Tana McKee? He's interesting. There's not a lot of top-schelf options. Kirk Cousins is going to be out there. Daniel Jones, I assume, is going back to Indianapolis. So then you're looking at- So you do think Kirk is...

You think it's done. They don't hold him to have a little competition in springtime to establish who the Falcons are.

I think there's a chance that he could go back there. But the way Stefansky sounded at the first press conference, and then they restructured his contract to make it easy for them to cut him, I think they're probably cutting or trading Kirk Cousins. Yeah.

I mean, that makes sense to me. But okay, for all of... Everybody has to lead with their dim cynicism. And we've been over where Mike McCarthy is concerned that this is a retread. Obviously, he's a QB coach. Mike Tomlin was the opposite of that. What's the reality as far as you can tell about Mike McCarthy in the Year of the Lord, 2026, as a capable, if nothing else, developer of QBs? Because you say Tana McKee is a throwaway joke, and I don't think that's the answer necessarily.

No, it wasn't a throwaway joke. I like Tana McKee.

Well, the jokes that you've heard are like, well, you had Aaron Rodgers, and he worked with Brett Farr. We had good quarterback, and Dak is a good quarterback. He did get some of the best out of each of those guys. But more importantly, where the Steelers who don't really have a QB at this point are concerned. He's done some real good work. Some ham and agers have at minimum delivered the best version of themselves with Mike McCarthy. How say you?

That's true. And I think His attention to detail and the professionalism of the offense, he brings all that. And a lot of his strengths are similar, I think, to Mike Tomlin's strengths, which is organization and everyone on the same page in the building. He can run a team. He's the face of the franchise. I think he can take over for Tomlin. I don't think they're in a rebuilding situation, and you're probably not going to be losing much, maybe even get something, but you're probably ending back up in the same spot. It worried me a little bit, Dave, about how surprised he seemed to be there in that it was like, I can't believe this is happening. And the main thing the Steeler say was like, We can't believe he was available, someone with this resume. It's like, Well, he was available for the other 10 teams. No one else is considering him. And the fact that last time, what did you learn when you took a year off? He's like, well, I got my PFF ultimate account and I studied all around the league, and I did all this different stuff. And then this time, he's like, well, I watched a lot of volleyball of my kids.

And Aaron Rodgers in 2025. I don't know. It looked pretty good to me.

He got a little emotional saying that it was too short the time that he spent with his family. And I was just thinking, I don't know, third time around. To me, coaching is a young man's job a little bit. There's a reason I think most people have won their Super Bowl. Okay, but he's 62.

Yeah. He's not an 87-year-old man. And the thing that people want to work their way around- I've been doing 20 I've all seen just covering it.

I can't imagine it, 62, I'm having the same juice that I have.

But the restorative quality is that it's in Pittsburgh. And the people who want to work their way around that, they are provincial, the Pittsburgh Stealers. It's a great story. And a reminder, again, I know he keeps saying it, but I'm going to say it one more time, at least. Maybe I'll say it three times on this show, and then next week I'll carry it over again, and I'll tell everybody up in Santa Claire the same thing. But as a reminder, they went to Art Rooney, Pete Roselle did, and said, Hey, America's team. The Cowboys have a certain shine, and the Stealers do, too. And worth considering, maybe the Stealers makes sense as America's team. And Art Rooney said, No, no, we don't want any of that crap. We're Pittsburgh's team, and that's good enough for us. I mean, yes, this is great news. This is fun. And it's not the idea that it is not a change at all, obviously, in football terms, he's a quarterback coach, and that's the difference. But maintaining the importance or making a statement that we get at Pittsburgh by putting in a Pittsburgher is great stuff, and you're not going to hear me badmouth that.

Now, last thing before you go, very quickly, win-play show. The thing that I guess gets under my skin about the Belichick conversation is the assertion repeatedly or insinuation at minimum that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time. I mean, did we forget about the Cleveland years? Did we forget about Tom braided leaving and immediately winning a Super Bowl without him? What else do we... The UNC experience.

Who are- Oh, come on.

Don't know, come on, mate. Now, more importantly, go ahead. You can put him number one if you want to. Win-play show, the three best head coaches of the Super Bowl era. Go.

The Super Bowl era?

Yes.

Okay, because then you don't count Paul Brown, who Belichick always says is the best one.

Stop vaping around about Paul Brown.

Well, I do think it's Belichick one. Okay. I think it's Andy Reid, too. Wow. It's probably Shula 3. Sorry, Shula.

Shula? Oh, I'm telling our pal Handsome Hank, you said that. Even he knows that Don Shula is the reason Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.

He Yeah, but here's the thing. This is why I don't hold anything that happened post-Brady against Belichick. You only have so long of a prime. I mean, 25 years in the... He started his prime as maybe the best defensive coordinator of all time with the Giants. One of them, one of the best defensive minds. That was 40 years ago. So the prime ends, I think, which is why I'm a little worried about McCarthy. So I'm counting Belichick's prime as through '18. And Don Shula had a hell a prime when he was in his prime.

Okay, but he's not even the best coach of the '70s. Obviously, it's the Emperor Chesnell. Four Rings, that's that. He built the team. What are we talking about? He obviously wins the '70s over Landry and Don Shul and John Maddon and people like that. Andy Reid is a great shout. I do have to say a couple more names for you to consider before you go. One is Joe Gibbs, the only guy. Of all the people who we talk about, he's the only cat. People, who didn't... Who succeeded without a Hall of Fame, without a Hall of Fame quarterback? Joe Gibbs. That's who three times over. Mark Ripp and Joe Theisman and Doug Williams, that's who he who steered his teams three times to Lombardi.

Here's the thing with Belichick that always gets me when people bring up that he never did without braided. He didn't have a Hall of Fame. He had a Hall of Fame Super Bowl. He had a quarterback that eventually became a Hall of Fame quarterback, but was, for the first one, maybe the 15th, the 20th best quarterback in the league, and his defense won that Super Bowl, period. And then for '03, '04, was not a top five quarterback during those seasons. Peaking late, I would say in '04, was when he started to really become braided. To me, he won those Super Bowl's without a Hall of Fame quarter, not to mention what he did with the Giants.

His greatest move was, or among his greatest calls, were when Drew Bledso gets them past the stealers, then braided did in that title game was everybody will say, So it's Bledso, right? And Belichick going, No, no. We're going with Tom braided. Also, Willie McGinnis, I'll tell you, Tom Brady's the right answer to that question. But it does bring us full circle and a reset button back to a new Patriots era here because Tom braided was, in fact, the real deal. He was the real deal on his rookie deal, just like Drake may. So this little window that is now open for the Patriots should stay open for at least the next three or five years. Thanks for the time. Either way, 40s in free agents, NFL Daily, all the rest of it. The great Greg Rosenthal, everybody.

Thank you, Dave. You're the best.

There he goes. Greg Rosenthal. Good stuff, I thought. What was your favorite part, Gino and Mike? Mike and Gino Fuentes.

Well, I took a note here and it says, My note is as follows, verbatim right here. I have it written down right here. You can't really see it on an old schedule we have here. It says, David is just like Dan.

How old the memory? Wait, you had to write it down?

Yeah, I had to write. I didn't want to forget. I know that we had a lot of things going on. It's always sucked my whole life. You can't even talk shit to me about that. I agree with it. It's terrible.

But I go, Dave is just like Dan. Whatever happened just happened three minutes ago. You can't remember it? Yeah, one more time.

Okay, go ahead. Dave is just like Dan. He asked Greg for his top three. Then he doesn't agree with him, then argues to try to make Greg's choice his. Ultimately, Greg just caves him. Quite the dynamic we have here.

I met him halfway on Andy Reid. What are you talking about?

He's like, Don Shula, the guy with the most wins in pro football history, went to two Super Bowl. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's got to be this guy.

Right away, it became clear this is a Chuck Noe question.

This is what he wanted. He just wanted to talk about it. I don't have to genuflect to somebody because they happened 30 or 40 years ago, as a lot of people do.

What Dave wanted was his top three to be said and then somehow turn Greg into another top three for him. So that way he really gets a top six, but it just appears that it's Greg's top three also.

Okay, I'm not going to bring up Noel, and I've done the Shula thing already. But I'm not the first person to point out, Don Shula's draughts around Dan Marino are the reason why Dan Marino never went back to a Super Bowl after his sophomore season. But Belichick, am I being too harsh on Bill here? Do you think he's the greatest coach of all time, given what we know about the entirety of his career, not just the time he spent with Tom braided?

Yes, I do think. I'm not a Patriots fan, obviously. I'm a Dolphins fan, but the man won eight Super Bowl as a coach at some level. He won six as a head coach. I mean, all of those graphics have been at the bottom of every screen you've seen over the past week. How he didn't get voted into the Hall of Fame on the first try doesn't make any sense.

If I deep dive any coach, I'm going to find some stinker years. There's no way you're the wide receiver coach of Calleigh Paul Tech or whatever, and you don't have some years that are stinkers. It's just the way it goes.

Calleigh Paul.

I made it up. That's totally fictional Calleigh Paul Tech.

No, Calleigh Paul. She was really good on the Yukon Huskies. I think it was their '04 title run. But yeah, it's not even so much for me about the Cleveland stuff and certainly not the UNC stuff. They're up on Mount Pius. This is a revelation to anybody that these guys are acting like human beings and exposing their own flaws. Same applies for the Base Hall of Fame. Ultimately, this is cutting your nose despite your face. If you want the Hall to thrive, if you're a voter, then not having the hit king in there. Imagine you're a dad and your kid likes baseball. He says, Can we go to the Hall of Fame? And you take him to the Hall of Fame, and he says, Where's the guy who has the most home runs of all time? Oh, he's not in here. He didn't make it. What? Okay. Well, then The most hits, at least. No, he's also not in here. I can completely agree with you on all this, by the way. Roger Clemens isn't in there. What are we doing? Then why would you go to the Hall of Fame? What are you there to regard the people who behave themselves or towed a line that the voters wanted you to tow?

The Hall of Fame is now lesser because Bill Belichick is not in it until he gets in the Hall of Fame.

That's right. And same goes for Terrell Owens and a lot of those cats. But also, it's murky The Jimmy Johnson's and Steven A. S. And Dan Orlovskis and everybody who's really just out. This is the issue of our time. Nothing else to complain about in our society. But Bill Belichick getting a high hat or delayed by one year. Human beings, the same people who say, Well, it's part of the game. The human error, the players and the referees, which I also laugh at the idea that the referees. We have video evidence. There's no excuse for them not to be 100% 100% correct at this point. But if we're going to say human error with the referees, then human error with the voters, it's an imperfect approach. I disagree with Bill Belichick not getting in on the first ballot. I push back on the notion that he's the greatest of all time. I also am not going to get histreonic about him being delayed by a year because there are some reasons why you could get up on Mount Pius. I know Bill Cauer and a lot of other people say now, Oh, the whole videotaping thing, that was completely overblown.

There are still some people who are relevant to pro football who say it is an issue and it should have been allowed. And if this is a penalty for that and the Flate gate and whatever else, so be it. It's not the end of the world, everybody. Settle down. Bill Belichick and everybody who gets into the Hall of Fame has been genuflected to for the last 25 or 40 years. Are we sure we definitely need to guild the lily and celebrate these guys some more? There's no one else in society that deserves a backslap. No, the people who've been celebrated and are multimillionaires and have been celebrated as such for the last, like I say, three or four decades, let's celebrate them a little bit more. And if we don't get a chance to, I'm going to be mad. It's a little silly.

In 1999, Andy Reid went 5 and 11 as the Eagles's head coach. Okay, that's fine. In 2005, he went six and ten. 2007, he went eight and eight. '96 and 1 in 2008. Let's see how many of those stinkers he had. Everybody has stinkers is what I'm getting at. Then his final year, he went four and twelve before he got fired.

It is noteworthy And Gino points it out. That's absolutely right that if you do it in different football situations, I think you deserve... I think that adds to the resume in a way that Belichick can't. He can't say, Well, look at what I did. I know it wasn't just New England. It was It was also what? Working under Bill Marcells?

My era was so successful that I didn't leave. I don't think that's an argument against anybody. I was doing so well. I didn't just leave.

Andy Reid deserves the credit for taking two separate teams in the Super Bowl, even though one of those teams Well, only one of those teams won. But the same is the case with Don Shuloh, who took the Colts to numerous NFL Championships. Was it AFL? No, AFL Championships, right?

No, not numerous. But yeah, I take your point.

The Colts were a dominant team. They lost it.

Don't lose your point down in the weeds there.

Exactly. But then he took the Dolphins to the Super Bowl, and they want to.

Well, that was the thing with him, as a matter of fact, is there was getting to be, if you go back and read up on the era, the thing was that Don Chula was the Atlanta Braves of the '90s at some point. Like, Is this guy? He's real good, but is he ever going to get over the hump? It was a little Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen for a head coach in pro football. Boy, his teams are always great, and he always gets them real close, but are they ever going to win one? Finally, they did 14 to seven. No, thanks, I guess, to Garria Premian in the left-hand- But he went to six total Super Bowl, right?

That's my math. He went to the five with the Dolphins.

Six total? Well, he wins 17, loses 19, so that's two. Then he wins the two with the seven and eight with the Dolphins, so that's four. He loses- The one before the four. Right. That's right. That's exactly right. I lost that. Six. Six, he loses 24 to three. Yes, go ahead, Mike.

No, I remember me and you had talked about, I think I talked about on Last Football America, how the Dolphins don't get enough crap for being such a bad team.

All of this was ancient history, by the way.

But he just reminded me when he said it that the Dolphins had won two Super Bowl's. I found out this week that that Dolphins Super Bowl team, the '72 Perfect Season, was actually the team that in all of NFL history, their opponents had the lowest winning percentage of all time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, by a wide distance. So another thing that... Because Dolphins fans love to say that, Oh, well, the perfect season, all this stuff. That way less impressive now that I see that stat, at least to me.

Well, I'll defend it to some extent. It's an undefeated season. No one's ever done it. Obviously, it's something to hold up. I did see nick Wright, though, on Lebitard earlier this week saying that the dolphins are merely representative of your little corner, your little region of football America, which is to say soft. The turquoise and the orange and the style of play all adds up to them being recognizable to the residents. I've always laughed at the notion that good defense. People always say like this, Steeler's defense or this, or whatever. It really suits the blue collar vibes of the fan base and everything else, as though Dolphins fans wouldn't enjoy a dominant defense. They'd be like, I can't relate to this. This makes no sense to me. Get it out of here. That's silly. But also, nick Wright knows enough history to remember Larry Zanca, and that nick Bonacani in the no-name defense was the highlight. It certainly wasn't Bob Greasey. They talk about a ground and pound team. They were plenty physical. So I don't exactly get that. But I do agree with your point, Mike, that the Dolphins have slipped through the cracks, like the Chiefs were until Patrick Mahomes happened.

I used to quietly feel a little bit bad about them because they are one of the tent pole franchises the Chiefs are and always have been. But it was weird that people would say, Oh, the Chiefs aren't one of the embarrassing franchises. They're not one of the teams that would be terrible to root for. But yeah, they would be because you're steeped in an important history, but you haven't won a Super Bowl since Super Bowl 4. You haven't been to a Super Bowl in 50 years or whatever. Until they finally got over the hub. The Dolphins are getting close to that now. We always talk about now the Cowboys haven't been to a Super Bowl since 1994, which is pathetic. But the Dolphins has been worse for them. And again, a tent pole franchise because of the Shula years combined with Dan Marino's deeds.

I'm trying to figure out what's going to be, I guess if they finish this year with no quarterback or if they go into it with Quin Ewaers, because obviously I don't see Tua reinventing himself. So I figure if you start getting a couple of top five picks, that's They always like to meander around. They find a way. You know this. They find a way to be 9 and 8, 8 and 9, 7 and 10. You're right in the middle. They're just bad enough to get a mid-round pick. I mean, just good enough to get a mid-round pick, just bad enough right there. Because that's the worst thing. You're going through it, too, Dave, with the Pittsburgh Steelers. You never have a top draft pick. You're always like, Oh, let's try to find a gem mid-first round, because for some reason, we think 8 and 8 is okay. We're right there outside looking in.

Yeah, but my team at least makes the playoffs most of the time.

Yeah, well, you got the Browns and you got- I'm just saying, the distinction is that.

We're in the same spot. I'm agreeing.

If Josh Allen was in your division, you wouldn't even sniff the playoffs. He'd be blowing you guys out every year. You wouldn't even know. You're right.

You're right. I can't argue that. My division has Lamar Jackson.

Not the same thing.

Not the same. Not the same. Clearly. But Lamar has more MVPs.

Yeah.

By the way, one last thing about the '72 Dolphins that is a funny little quirk in NFL history, you're right about their overall schedule. I also submit what if style, what the if. If the Stealers, if the Immagular The reception doesn't happen. The title game, the AFC title game, is in Miami. Why was it then in Pittsburgh? The Dolphins were undefeated because back then they used to rotate home field advantage among the division winners, which is super weird. But it was warm in Pittsburgh for the AFC title game, and so that suited the Dolphins a little bit, but not too warm. Had the game been in Miami, it was warm and a fast track, which wouldn't have suited their ground and pound against the high flying Oakland Raiders with Stake Stabler and Cliff Branch. I submit that the Raiders would have gone to the Super Bowl against Washington that year and would have ended the undefeated season for the Dolphins had the immaculate reception hadn't happened. But that's a weird little quirk in history. Anyway, bring us up to speed on modern times and the coaching carousel as it now stands, Gino Fuentes.

Well, I've got... Sometimes the coaching carousel makes you laugh. And there are three teams in particular this time around which just had some of the funniest story lines you can imagine. Which one of these is the funniest to you guys? Bill's ownership emotionally fires McDermott after a playoff loss and says they need a coaching change. The owner then throws the coaching staff under the bus in a press conference and promotes his faulty GM to President. Then turns around, goes back to the coaching staff that he just put down and threw under the bus and hires and promotes, I should say, the highest ranking part of the coaching staff to head coach. So that's number one. That's the Bills. Aaron Glenn. Okay.

Now, let's- So you're just laying these out for us and we have to say which is the funniest? Which is the funiest one?

Which is the one that we think is the funiest?

Because that one I thought was hilarious. Then you got Aaron Glenn, who finishes the season 3: 14, I think it was. Hey, He had only fired one coach during the season. It was Wilkes, the defensive coordinator, with three weeks left to go. But then goes and watches film to analyze the season, comes back three weeks later, appalled, decides, I'm going to fire eight more coaches, including every positional coach on defense and their assistant coaches, and then fires the offensive coordinator, the quarterback's coach, and I believe the... Who am I missing? There's one more offensive coach. And now all of the top-tier coaches are taken off the market because, as we know, the coaching carousel started three weeks ago. So that's the Jets being the Jets. And then finally, this one might be the funniestest one. Brown's ownership interviews a number of candidates to be their new head coach after firing Kevin Stefansky. The one condition to all of these coaches, though, they want to keep Schwartz on as defensive coordinator, which ends up costing them a bunch of head coaches, a bunch of coaches drop out of the running. They then hire Greg Roman to be their new head coach.

And Jim Schwartz, upset that he didn't get promoted, ends up saying, I want out. I should have been the head coach. So they don't even get to keep Jim Almost perfect.

Todd Munkin, not Greg Roman, but I'm picking up what you're laying down.

Where I'm going to get Roman from, yeah.

I do love that the Browns move is to hire the... I talk about the incest of the AFC North all the time. I mean, the Ravens are, in fact, the Cleveland Browns dressed in purple and playing in Charmed City. I don't know what that team actually is up in Cleveland, but it ain't the Browns. They moved 25 years ago away from you guys. And the Browns, after flailing about, hired, not the head coach, even, the coordinator of the Ravens to be their head coach. And that chases off Jim Schwartz, who somehow that message didn't break through. Hey, what we want is to keep Jim Schwartz as our DC, while Jim Schwartz says, If you do that, I'm leaving. And then they do it, and now they're surprised that Jim Schwartz wants to leave.

Why don't they talk to each other? That's what makes it the funniest thing. It's just like you constantly hear about, Oh, dysfunction in Cleveland. There was a report that came out that Munkin was actually shit-talking the front office, saying what a mess it was when he would see other coaches before the game. Then they hire that guy. Then the guy says, Well, I wasn't going to be here if you don't maybe head coach, then he ends up leaving. You don't talk? Send a text. Just talk to each other. Yeah, get on a zoomer. How to not know that this is a thing? You could have let them walk and then early hired other guys. They would have brought their guy. Either way, you got Miles Garrett. He's doing all the work anyway. What's the difference?

Well, it's funny you say that because the thing that strikes me and has with Todd Munkin, and I've said it in past conversations, there are a lot of people who really spend a lot of time on the Xs and O's, and they'll tell you that Munkin is doing some clever stuff. But man, this one has that stink of, boy, the situation was awfully good and awfully hard to screw up in Baltimore. When you start out with Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews is a real good tight end. I've fallen off a little bit, but when Munkin arrives three years ago. And you have Derrick Henry behind him. The last couple of years and didn't equal much playoff success, obviously, some nice gaudy numbers in stretches, but not consistently. Again, even though you had Lamar Jackson, this is the guy you're sure? There's not a ton of evidence. His stop before that was in college, Munkin. So like you say, it's the Browns being the Browns. The Jets are a funny bunch. It seems like they're... Woody feels a victim of his own past failures that he can't... He's aware now that people have turned him into a punchline.

Aaron Glenn, based on what we saw just one season in, should mean that he gets fired, but they are now aware it's a bad look how we just keep cycling through coaches, so we better stick with this guy. But this was the time to get out from under Aaron Glenn. But then he goes and fires everyone. Right. Well, yeah, exactly. Then And then the other one, like we talked about, the enforced error of Pagula doing this and now unnecessarily making the bills seem a lot less attractive. But what it amounts to is, if you just pull back and look at the final result, this is entirely about maybe the guy who they said was sitting in on some of those interviews, Josh Allen, maybe just said to Pegula like, It's over with McDermott. I don't like him. Because that is, if you look at it, that's what it amounts to, right? Everybody's there, Joe braided. So it wasn't like, We got to move on from this era. No, no. We're going to keep the offensive coordinator, just get the guy who's allegedly the defensive whiz, who's the head coach, and hasn't gotten us to the Super Bowl yet despite having a superhero quarterback, right?

That's the math.

It has to be because everything else stayed the same.

Okay. So bottom line is, with all due respect to you, Jets and Bills, the Browns remain our funniest team in pro football. All right. I like talking. Everybody's talking about the Seahawks and Patriots, all the haves. And that was good times with Greg Rosenthal to do that. And like I say, we'll be talking plenty of Patriots and Seahawks on the other side of the weekend when I'll be in Santa Claire, California, bouncing off the players and coaches to start the week. And we'll be on Media Row and all the rest of it, looking forward to doing all of that. And we'll also make sure we keep an eye on the have not teams, the Browns and Jets included, and all the other teams that didn't make it to Super Bowl 60. Until the other side of the weekend, our first one without football. It hurts, but we're here for you. Thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.