Transcript of The Tragic Death and Enduring Legacy of Rob Reiner

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.

On Tuesday, prosecutors investigating the death of Rob and Michelle Reiner said they planned to charge the couple's son, nick, with first-degree murder.

Today, Julia Jacobs on what we're learning about the death of a Hollywood legend and West Cee Morris on why so many of Reiner's films are among the most beloved movies ever made. It's Wednesday, December 17th. Julia, I appreciate you coming in today.

Thanks for having me.

I just want to say at the outset, perhaps this is obvious, but the death of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, is a very gruesome and tragic situation, and we do not want to linger on it for a long time in this conversation. In fact, I hope we don't have to linger on it much at all. But I do think we should briefly talk about what we know at this point about what actually happened.

You're right. It's an absolute tragedy, and there are a lot of questions right now. But what we do know is that on Sunday, the authorities were called to Rob Reiner's home in Brentwood, a neighborhood in Los Angeles. The first information that came out was that there were two deceased individuals inside. They listed the ages, but not initially the identities. But the ages matched up roughly with those of Rob Reiner, the Hollywood director, and his wife, Michelle Singer Reiner, who is a photographer and a producer. Later that night, on Sunday night, their son, nick, was arrested. Eventually, police said they were investigating his role in their deaths.

Right, which was a shocking piece of information.

Yes. Then on Tuesday, prosecutors announced that they intended to charge nick Reiner with two counts of first-degree murder.

Right. Making very official this genuinely horrible scenario in which a child had killed both of his parents.

Correct. The son, nick Reiner, had a long documented history of drug addiction. That story had been out there for years. He had struggled since he was a teenager. He had been in and out of rehab. He had gone through bouts of homelessness when he didn't want to be in the rehab that his parents wanted him to be in. But he eventually made his way back home and started living in his parents' guest house. What I'm told is they had a very tight-knit, warm household. They spent a lot of time together. In fact, on Saturday night, some of my colleagues were told that Rob Reiner and nick Reiner were at the house of Conan O'Brien for a Christmas party. The night before? The night before. And that one person told my colleague that Rob Reiner said something about his son's behavior, something to the effect of, You can't act this way. And this was the night before Rob and wife, Michelle, were found stabbed to death, allegedly by nick.

And what we all had to reckon with thereafter was that this huge force in Hollywood, this enormously successful and influential director and producer who himself had quite famously escaped the shadow of his own father, had, allegedly, as you said, been killed by his own son. I wonder if you can tell us that story of Reiner and how he became what he became.

After the news of Rob Reiner's tragic death, everyone automatically started reliving his career. Something that he talked about a lot is his father, Carl Reiner. He was a giant of 20th century television. He helped define the medium of He was a performer, a writer, director. He created the Dick Van Dyke Show, one of the most celebrated comedies of all time. He won nine Emmys and directed many movies. He worked as a close collaborator with Steve Martin. Throughout Rob's long career in Hollywood, he could actually be quite candid about how overwhelming it could be to live in the shadow of his father.

How did he talk about it?

He talked about feeling feeling misunderstood as a child once he was quoted as saying it was frightening to be compared to him. He tells this story about how a friend of his father, Norman Lear, another giant of television, pointed out to Carl Reiner that his son, Rob, was quite funny, but Carl Reiner was surprised. He's like, My son, funny. I think he's quite quiet and sullen. In Rob's later years, he would tell that story a lot as an example of how he just felt like his father didn't get him. Didn't know him. Right. But he wanted to be like his father, just like his father, and he didn't shy away from that either. He told another story that when his father at one point encouraged him to differentiate himself, he suggested, What other name would you want to take on? What would you want to change your name to? Rob said, What if I changed it to Carl? He embraced this desire to be like his father. He was a teenager on the set of the Dick Van Dyke show, learning everything he could about entertainment. Eventually, he got into theater. He struck out on his own.

His first major television role, he was cast by Norman Lear, his father's friend. This was for the sitcom- From television city in Hollywood. All in the family. By the way, Glenn Miller played. So It was a defining television show of the 1970s for the way it put generational conflict on display. This was a time when members of the silent generation, like the show's Patriarch Archie Bunker, were really grappling with the youth counterculture that stemmed from the 1960s and the anti-war movement. Rob Reiner's character was this guy named Michael Stivik. He was a left a pacifist hippie, and he was really the avatar for that younger generation.

Anything interesting in the paper?

Yeah, 200 arrested in Vietnam Day peace demonstration. 200. They should have thrown a whole bunch of them in the can.

I I think they just don't like the idea of America fighting an illegal and immoral war.

Well, if they don't like it, they can lump it. Take it down the road and dump it.

A lot of the show's comedy came from this back and forth between Archie Bunker, the conservative father-in-law to Mike Stivet, who he calls- You are a meathead.

You're a meathead.

Right.

A meathead, right. A meathead, dead from the neck up.

And even though they weren't father and son by blood, this was a show with a strong undercurrent of this familial narrative.

The two would fight over politics, over Michael's lack of a job that Archie would deem respectable.

That's all you care about, Archie, is what you got and how you can keep it.

Well, you'd care about it, too, sunny boy, if you had anything. It wasn't living on for me without a pot to peel a potato.

And yet there's also this deep undercurrent of love between them.

Right. There are moments of real connection, and the scene that comes to mind immediately is one where they're stuck together in a storage room full of alcohol, and both of them are drunk and talking about their fathers.

Did you ever think that possibly your father just might be wrong?

My old man, don't be stupid. My old man, how many tell you about him. He was never wrong about nothing.

Yes, he was, Arch. My old man used to call people the same things as your old man, but I always knew he was wrong. So was your old man.

No, he wasn't.

Yes, he was. Your father was wrong. Zara! Your father was wrong.

It's this moment where Archie Bunker, whether he wants to or not, unloads a lot about his own childhood.

The father who made you. Your father, the breadwinner of the house there, A man who goes out, I'm busting his butt to keep a roof over your head. I close on your back. You call your father wrong? Hey, your father.

Archie Bunker has this conviction that he shares with Michael Spivik that a father cannot be wrong. And yet he explains all that his father did to him as a child.

My father had a hand on him now. I tell you, he busted that hand once, and he busted it on me to teach me to do good. My father, he shoved me in the closet for seven hours. He'll teach me to do good. Of course, he loved me. He loved me.

And yet there's still this nagging conviction that a father can't be wrong.

Let me tell you something. You're supposed to love your father because your father loves you. How can any man that loves you tell you anything that's wrong?

As Archie Bunker is telling this story, the reaction of Michael, it seems to dawn on him why his father-in-law is like this, why he's so harsh on him, why their relationship can be so at odds, because Because he doesn't always act like his father-in-law is always right. At the end of the scene, as Archie Bunker lies down and falls asleep, there's this really tender moment where Michael gets up and puts the blanket over him, almost in a fatherly way. Right.

The son-in-law, Reiner, becomes, in a sense, the father, the parent of a suddenly, quite openly wounded, although not self-aware of his wounds, Archie It's a really tender moment, and in this comedy, it really stands out as a moment of real substance.

This was a huge breakout role for Reiner. He won two Emmies, and he spent really the second half of his 20s and into his 30s on this show. But he had this nagging feeling that he wanted to do more. He wanted to direct. After All in the Family ended, he became a prolific film director, and his first major major feature film was This is Spinal Tap in 1984.

Your first drummer was- The Peepa. John Stumpe Peeps. Great, great, tall blonde geek with glasses. Good drama. Great look. Good drama. Good drama. What happened to him? He died. He died in a bizarre gardening accident some years back.

For those who don't know that movie, it's quite specific.

Yes, it's this satire about a hapless British metal band that really helped define the form of mockumentary.

This is a top to what we use on stage, but it's very special because if you can see, the numbers all go to 11. Look, right across the board, 11, 11, 11. And most of the-amps go up to 10. Exactly.

Reiner's in this movie. He doesn't just direct it.

Right. He's in it as the straight man.

Why don't you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number and make that a little louder. These go to 11.

This release really started the spectacular eight years of cinema for Reiner, where he leapfrogged from genre to genre and really became a force in Hollywood. You had the Coming of Age drama, Stand By Me. You had the fantasy adventure film, The Princess Bride.

My name is Diego Montoya.

You killed my father.

Prepare to die.

Stop to say that.

You had the psychological thriller, Misry.

You, dirty bird. How could you?

The Courtroom drama, A Few Good Men.

You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers.

I want the truth.

You can't handle the truth. And of course, the rom-com, probably his most famous movie of all, When Harry Met Sally.

But I would be proud. But I would be proud. To partake. To partake. Of your pecan pie. Of your pecan pie.

Pecan pie.

Pecan pie. Pecan pie.

Right. These movies are not just memorable. They literally become part of pop culture, part of our vernacular, there's a quote from each and every one of the movies you just mentioned that either one of us could insight back to each other, including, and this is from Spinal Tap, It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. Yeah.

Or from a few good men, you can't handle the truth.

I can't handle the truth.

What's fascinating about this string of movies is that Reiner would often tap into his own personal experiences in making them. I think he said that's what kept him honest as a filmmaker. One example of that is Stand By Me, which is based on a novella by Stephen King.

It's not the secret knock. I forget the secret knock.

Let me hit.

Run.

It's about four pre-teen boys who have this adventure. What are you pissing and moaning about, Fernald?

You guys want to go see your dead body?

Trying to find this dead body. Along the way, they're revealing the story of who each of them are. When it comes to the protagonist, this 12-year-old aspiring writer, he has this devastating scene where he breaks down in front of his friend.

Why did he have to die, Chris? Why did Danny have to die? Why?

His brother, his beloved older brother, had just died, and he was expressing how he felt like his father wishes that he was the one who died.

He hates me.

He doesn't hate you.

He hates me.

No, he just doesn't know you.

He hates me.

He hates me.

And his friend is sitting there trying to console him in the best way he can as a kid. Reiner would say that that is how he felt as a little boy.

You're going to be a great writer someday, Gordy. You might even write about us guys if you ever get hard up for material.

He felt like the character Gordie talking to his friend.

Right. He felt like his father didn't know him.

Of course, Reiner's personal life ends up figuring into the plot of When Harry Met Sally.

Right. Reiner had the idea for When Harry Met Sally after he divorced his first wife, and he was back in the dating pool. Actually, in the making of that movie, he was introduced to his wife, Michelle. The way he tells it, he actually changed the ending of the movie after meeting Michelle. He changed it so that the two protagonists end up together.

It's actually unfathomable that that movie would end any other way than it did with Harry and Sally in that famous the scene telling each other that they love each other and that they will be together.

Absolutely. It's film history. Over the years, Reiner's success goes beyond even directing. He starts this production company, Castle Rock, that ends up creating some classic movies. And Seinfeld. Exactly. It actually produced one of the most successful comedy series in history, Seinfeld.

Pretty full circle for a guy who stars in one of the great sitcoms of his era.

Right. He also has this vibrant political life. He gets really involved involved in the fight for gay marriage. He actually spearheads a ballot measure revolving around early education in California. He becomes this really multifaceted figure that is known for more than just his filmmaking.

Right. He becomes a thorn in the side of President Trump.

Absolutely. Reiner was against Trump from the beginning, became a vocal critic over the years, and in one of his final interviews in recent months, warned that was leading the country into autocracy. This was all thrown into sharp relief after his death when Trump suggested that his death had to do with Reiner's own opposition to him.

Right, which is a pretty wildly unsubstantiated, I dare say, reckless claim. I think that Julia brings us back to Reiner's relationship with his son, which we started with. I know that the two, father and son, end up working on a film together.

Right. As everyone sifts through what there is on the internet about the relationship between nick and his parents, what keeps coming to the fore are these interviews that he did with his father when they were making this movie together.

Just remind us about this movie.

It's called Being Charlie, and it's actually loosely based on their own relationship, focused on a son who is battling a drug addiction and a father who's an actor turned politician. The idea from this movie came from nick Reiner when he was in rehab. Throughout his teenage years, he said he was in treatment roughly 18 different times. In one of those rehab facilities, he meets a friend who he starts working on a script with, and they're pulling from their experiences with drug addiction. Now, eventually, Rob Reiner embraces the idea of making this script into a full-lane film, and that becomes Being Charlie, which is directed by Rob Reiner. There was clearly a deep conflict between nick and his parents over how to approach his own addiction recovery, and those themes really shine through in the movie. There's this line where the father in the movie is talking to his son who's battling drug addiction, and the father says, All I could tell myself was I'd rather have you alive and hating me than dead on the streets.

Wow.

And so during this round of interviews, Rob and nick are talking about how this movie affected their relationship.

And how did it affect it? We didn't do it to be cathartic, but it turned out that that's what happened.

Rob said it made him understand his son a lot more and that he hoped it made him a better father.

And that brought us closer together.

And nick said, We didn't bond a lot as a kid.

He really liked baseball.

I like basketball, and he could watch that with my brother, but baseball Even though he and his father didn't bond a lot as a kid, it better helped him understand his dad.

It made me feel closer to him.

In those interviews, it's clear that nick and his parents had worked very hard to keep him sober. But nick also talked later about relapsing after the movie came out.

After this healing exercise of making a movie with his dad.

Right. There was a podcast where he talks about having a heart attack on a plane from cocaine and ending up in the hospital. There's another time he talks about being on cocaine and completely wrecking his parents' guest house, which he lived in, where he punches the television, punches a lamp, and the whole place ends up in shambles. So in these interviews, it's clear that the whole family was striving for sobriety, for nick, and some lasting stability in terms of the family relationship, but it never came.

Well, Julia, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.

After the break, Wesley Morris on Why Rob Reiner's Movies are so beloved. We'll be right back. Wesley, thank you for making time for us.

Of course. I mean, I'm sad that it has to be under these circumstances.

It's a really sad circumstance as our colleague Julia Jacobs just walked us through. It's a really tragic and to a remarkable career. The reason we've asked you to come in the studio is because we wanted a critic's assessment of the career and the work of Rob Reiner. You are the time's chief critic. You're also, and I know this from first-hand experience, a genuine film buff. In that context, what is the significance in your mind of Reiner and the films that he directed? What a filmmaker was he in your mind?

He was the director who was really interested in pleasing people. He wanted to make movies that made people happy. Even when they were dark movies, he was looking for a way to find the pleasure centers that we as moviegoers needed met when we went to a movie theater. Or because a lot of the times with Reiner, you would be watching these movies at home over and over and over again.

Because they somehow made their way onto your TV screen at home over and over and over again.

Oh, yeah. Whether you went to a video store and pulled one of those movies off the shelf or it was just on cable all the time. The thing about them that is so wonderful is also the thing that made Rob Reiner... He wasn't a critic's director. In a lot of ways, you go back and read the reviews of his movies, and it would always be the charge would be the movies didn't go far enough. They didn't go deep enough. They weren't getting into the nitty-gritty of human relationships in the way that they probably could have.

Right. In fact, I went through this exercise within the last 24 hours, and it should be humbling to the film critics of the world. You go back and look at the reviews of something like Stand By Me.

Sure. I'm just wishing that I could go someplace when nobody knows me.

In the Times. Too much saccharine. Sure. But that's not the experience of a young Michael Barbaro, watching Stand By Me and finding it to be a complete revelation of what brotherhood, fraternity, and youthful adventure might look like.

I think the thing about Rob Reiner that's important to make the distinction between is a question of what the greatest movies are and what your favorite movies are.

He makes your favorites.

That man has made your favorite movie. He's made one of your favorite movies, and everybody's got one. He's made two of my favorite movies. When Harry Met Sally. I mean, come on. There's a couple of things with Rob Reiner that makes this outpouring of grief over his death important. His peak as a director was at a time when the movies were interested in just simple things brought to life by a good script and a couple of stars. These are not values the movies have anymore. These are bygone aspects of American movie making. He was one of the principal embodiments his movies were of that era. For me, when Harry Met Sally was great because it had these two people that I knew, Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal. Rob Reiner made them movie stars. This movie made them movie stars.

It's hard to imagine that they weren't movie stars before that, but somehow.

Yeah, you'd seen them in things before. Billy Crystal was a well-known comic, and Meg Ryan was somebody who'd been in other movies as a supporting character. You also had in Harry Met Sally this great script by Nora Efron. Nora Efron, William Goldman, Aaron Sorkin, they wrote the great Rob Reiner movies. He knew what to do with a good screenplay and good actors. And part of the pleasure of watching them all congeal, just come together and transmographize into this amazing experience of just feeling. I mean, you watch the Princess Bright, and it's all exuberance. You watch When Harry Met Sally, and it's just whatever you believe about people getting together and spending time with each other and communicating.

It's amazing. You look like a normal person, but actually, you are the angel of death.

Are you going to marry him?

We have only known each other for a month, and besides, neither one of us is looking to get married right now. I'm getting married. You are? You are.

Just some great talking.

Who is she? Well, you're getting on your own to what I deeply would love for you to do. Okay. Which is to take us into one scene of a Reiner-directed film At this point, I have to believe, because of what you've already said, that that scene is going to be coming from When Harry Met Sally. Sure. There's a lot of scenes in that movie.

I think When Harry Met Sally, to me, it's the peak of all his priorities as a filmmaker, the human part, the love part. Obviously, if you're going to boil this movie down to one scene, it's the diner scene. It's the deli scene. Meg Ryan, Sally, Billy Crystal, who's Harry, these people have been friends now for a few years, and they are very familiar with the cadences of each other's dating and sex lives. They go to have lunch one day, and they proceed to talk about Harry's latest disappointment romantically. It's not working out. It's not working out, and she's gone, and he has moved on.

What do you do with these women? You just get up out of bed and leave? Sure. Well, So explain to me how you do it. What do you say? Just have an early meeting, early haircut, early squash game. You don't play squash? They don't know that. They just met me. That's disgusting. I know. I feel terrible.

And she's like, Well, you probably wouldn't know that a woman's never been satisfied by you.

Hey, I don't feel great about this, but I don't hear anyone complaining. Of course not. You're out the door too fast. I think they have an okay time. How do you know? I mean, how do I know I know?

And he's like, I think I would know because I was there. I created the satisfaction. Because they...

Yes, because they... How do you know that they're really... What are you saying That they fake orgasm?

She's like, Mcgrion, Sally, says, Why?

Most women at one time or another have faked it.

I'm telling you that most women at some point in their lives have faked it.

Well, they haven't faked it with me. How do you know? Because I know.

He's like, No, they haven't. That's insane.

Right.

That's right.

I forgot. You're a man. What was that supposed to mean? Nothing. It's just that all men are sure it never happened to them, and most women at one time or another have done it, so you do the math. You don't think that I could tell a difference? No. Get out of here.

So I cut to Meg Ryan. Her eyes go, Oh, okay. There's a twinkle, a little She's telling us. She's telegraphing to us what she's about to do. She half smiles, and she proceeds to start her orgasm.

Are you okay?

And she does not break. This is a really difficult thing to do. Too, both directing and editing-wise, because there's a rhythm that has to be maintained here. Oh, God.

Oh, God.

But you also have to establish that she is staying in this orgasm, and he is going to suffer through the discomfort of watching her perform it.

Oh, yeah, right there.

And that all of this, we should just remind the listener, revolves around the consumption a very average-looking sandwich.

We got to talk about the sandwich because it's just a pile of meat. But there's a cut to Harry in his increasing awareness that what is happening is happening, and he is about to lose this argument. But Billy Crystal is performing increasing mortification at the fact. It's interesting because it's simultaneously him losing this argument and him being embarrassed by this spectacle that she's creating. There are so many looks on his face of just like, Oh, my God. She's, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He's like, Oh, my God. There's this tension. There's this physics between his mortification and her ecstasy. An important thing happens at about the 30th second in this scene. Wow, you really did this one. Of the orgasm part of this scene. The scene goes three minutes long. It's this. The camera's on Meg Ryan mid fake orgasm, and a man turns around behind her, and he is wearing a Yankees cap, and he is completely deadpan but looking in her direction. It's just the two of them in this shot. You realize, oh, my God. You as a viewer realizes they're not going to do the thing that a television show would do.

This is the Rob Reiner going to the movies part. This is Nora Efron knowing how the world works. We're not going to pretend that this is a closed environment and these people are just here to make you think you're in a diner. People are going to hear this orgasm.

Lots of people.

Because it could have ended just like that. It could have ended the minute that guy in the Yankees cap turns around. Even before that, Billy Crystal was selling the comedy in this bit as much as Meg Ryan is. You could have just ended it right there. That scene could have ended and she was just like, I rest my case. But instead, this scene goes on for another 30 seconds.

It's deeply uncomfortable.

No, Michael, no. It's not uncomfortable at all. It's hilarious.

Hilariously uncomfortable.

And the thing that makes it hilarious is us, the people watching this woman fake this orgasm. They don't know she's faking it. They don't know what's going on. This sandwich must be real good. This pile of meat must be doing something to this woman. Every subsequent shot during this sequence, we've established how Meg Ryan is going to perform her fake orgasm. We understand that Billy Crystal is mortified. But now we spend the rest of this sequence, most of the rest of it, watching everybody else in the deli react.

Oh, yes.

Like, not even react. They're just watching her do this. It's an amazing sight because some people are concerned. Some people are like, It's New York. This is also one of the great New York movies, right? It's New York, and people are like, Oh, it's Orgasm Day, I guess, from the deli. Okay, great. Fantastic. She reaches her climax.

Yes, yes.

Oh, God. She picks up her fork, she stabs her salad or whatever it is that's on that plate. She takes a bite. We go from shot, reverse shot, cut away, cut away, cut away, to, I would say, a master shot of the two of them facing each other in the booth. You can see in the background, two women also having a meal, looking at Meg Ryan and the famous line, because the scene could have ended. When she picks up the fork, we're done. We're done. This scene is already killed. But he goes for it. We're done. This woman says to the waiter, You know the line.

I'll have what she's having.

I'll have what she's having. Yeah, it's one of the most memorable lines in all of cinema.

It never gets old.

No, it never gets old. You can watch that once a week and still pee your pants because- That's how joyful it is. It's just how joyful it is. Also, it's so New York.

I just- By the way, that's his mom who says it.

Oh, yeah. Estelle Reiner is the person who delivers the line. Perfection. Perfection. But also, the thing that kills is not just the line. It's the look of like, I guess I'll have to have what she's having. Her face is like, it's not... She does not look delighted. She looks disgusted and repulsed, but it's like, I just need to see what this is all It's as funny as it is because Rob Reiner keeps going, right? And he understands there's still another joke in there somewhere. I want to get all the jokes out.

I want to pause.

Yeah.

For just a moment and talk about how you, how we, should juxtapose all of the hilarity and joy that you just described that defines these films. How we're supposed to hold that in one hand and the brutality and the awfulness of how his life ends in the other?

The terrible thing about this death, a terrible thing about it, in terms of the millions of people who never met, didn't know Rob Reiner, but whose lives were touched by his work, is that the work was about the opposite of how he died. And yet, the very moving aspect of this grizzly tragedy is, I mean, from all reports, the Reiner's were determined to help their son, right? The ethos of the family life is the ethos of the filmmaking. Sometimes to the movie's detriment because the movies didn't want to go to really dark places. The movies weren't about the real darkness, the real difficulties. They were about the attempt to believe in our better natures, our better selves. That is what is so shocking about his death. But as one, as at least I do, when great or important people die in popular culture- You were often tasked with eulogizing them in print. Yeah. You You go back and you look and see how things went for them in real time or how they've been memorialized before their death, how their work is considered. I found one of the great tomes, one of the great movie projects ever.

You're holding a very, very thick book.

Is David Thompson's Biographical Dictionary of Film. It's right here. I got a new biographical dictionary of film. Yeah, Christine. It's the Miriam Webster's of Movies, written by one man, David Thompson. His Rob Reiner entry It's amazing because he's a little more dismissive of the wonderful movies. He gets it, but he doesn't really. They're not for him, apparently. But here's what he says in his dismount, and it's deep. As a director, Rob Reiner. He seemed more struck or polaxed by the notion that niceness could save the world. It is a petty thought, but one that stifles so many human and social realities. And so his turns to pie in the sky with good and bad all too clearly labeled. He's carried along by a fundamental decency and a sense of scenes that play. But his films are predictable from their first moments, and they begin to establish a weird dumb orthodoxy that if we're good to our kids, everything will be okay. This is not true. Life is more interesting.

Wow.

I mean, Rob Reiner was very alive when that was written.

That is terribly prescient.

I think the thing that made him lovable, Rob Reiner, as a human being, the reason he was so beloved by so many different people, was It was that he really believed in the fundamental goodness of people no matter what. It's an impossible situation for a parent to turn your back on a child In the end, he did not. He didn't because those movies were this man for better and for worse, but ultimately for better because they were about our better selves. This was a man who believed in life. He believed in people. The movies stand as a testament to that belief, as far as I'm concerned. When it clicked, and for, I'd say 10 years, this man was humming, it really, really, really made people happy, the work that he made. It's just that there's the family tragedy part, and then there is the happy guy part. He just seemed like such a joyful... He was a big bear of a man. He seemed like either he was going to hug you or you could hug him. You were going to hug him, completely. He would be okay with that. His movies were like that, too, for the most part.

They're always there to hug you. If you want to hug them back, feel free because they're on HBO right now.

And Netflix and Amazon. Wesley, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Michael, you're welcome. I'm sorry that I have to be here to do it.

We'll be right back.

Here's what else you need to know today.

On Tuesday, President Trump expanded the US Travel Ban to cover five more countries. Countries and added partial bans on 15 additional countries. The bans, which began in June, started with countries including Afghanistan, Myanmar, and Haiti. The newly banned countries include Mali, Niger, South Sudan, and Syria. Palestinians are also now banned. Those affected by the bans cannot immigrate to or enter the United States. Trump has described the banned countries as, Third World, and declared that their citizens pose a threat to Americans. And the Australian government said that the gunmen who carried out the mass shooting at a Jewish celebration over the weekend were motivated by ISIS. Police said that they found two homemade Islamic state flags in the car that the suspects, a father and son, had driven to the site of the massacre. Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson, Mujdj Sady, and Luke Vandenploek. It was edited by Brenda Clinkenberg and Michael Benoît. Contains music by Diane Wong and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. For The Daily. I'm Michael Babar. See you tomorrow.