Transcript of Sunday Special: The Best Movies of 2025

I'm Gilbert Cruz, and this is the Sunday Special. We're spending this last couple of episodes of the year looking back on some of the big cultural moments of 2025. Today, we're talking movies. I have two extremely knowledgeable colleagues here with me. Alyssa Wilkinson is a movie critic at the Times. Hello, Alyssa.

Hello, Gilbert.

And Nicole Sperling reports on the movie business, and she joins us from Los Angeles. Very appropriately. Welcome, Nicole. Hello.

How's it going, guys?

It is going great. So in the grand and very long tradition, of movie podcasts, I am going to start with an incendiary question that probably has no clear answer. Is this the last year for movies?

No.

It better not be. We'll be out of a job.

Come on, Gilbert. Absolutely not. The pipeline is full. We have no idea what will happen when this massive deal closes, whoever becomes the buyer. We can, of course, talk about all that stuff. But no, we've got movies. People go to movies. It still is a business.

People love movies.

People love movies. We all love movies. Nicole, you're referring to the deal. When you say the deal, you're talking about the Warner Brothers deal. Who's going to end up with Warner Brothers in the end? Is it going to be Netflix? Is it going to be Paramount? We're definitely going to talk that. But I want to spend most of this episode talking about the actual, actual movies, and we'll get into Wither Netflix. Alyssa, you put out your list of the best movies of 2025. So I want to start with your number one movie. Possibly, it was also my number one movie, even though no one cares about my list. This is One Battle After Another. Had an eyelash. Good morning. There are no hands on the clock. Why? Because they're not needed. What time is it? I don't remember that part. Let's just not nitpick over the password stuff. Look, this is Bob Ferguson, all right? Hall, Thomas Anderson's film, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Penn, Tiana Taylor, Chase Infinity. Tell us very quickly what the movie is about, and then tell us why you loved it.

So One Battle After Another is about a lot of things, but I guess in brief, it's about a group of revolutionaries who wind up going into hiding, and then it jumps forward, and it's about the daughter of one of the revolutionaries, gets imbroiled in a I don't want to spoil it for people, gets imbroiled in something.

I'm not gay, if that's what you're saying.

I didn't say that.

I'm not a homosexual.

I did not say that, but I see the lifts in your shoes.

You are a smart ass.

There's a lot of running around that occurs. Really what it's about, as the name suggests, is that every generation has to fight its own battles, and every generation of activists tries to idealistically win and then winds up handing off their battle to the next generation. But yeah, so it's only very loosely based on a Reganera Thomas Pinchin novel, Vineland, but it's been updated to the present. I love this movie for a lot of reasons. One of them is that I love all of Paul Thomas Anderson's movies without fail. You're in the bag. Yeah, it's very hard for me to not love PTA, but I also think that this one just feels very assured. It's got amazing performances. It's a beautiful film, and it's also thrilling and exciting and compelling and all of those things. I have yet to run into anyone who saw it and didn't think it was terrific in one way or another.

Nicole, are you that person who did not think it was terrific?

No, I loved it. I enjoyed it so much and walked out of it and said, Well, that's our best picture winner, and I still think that's the case. It's interesting because from a business standpoint, it's a challenge, right? It was an expensive movie. It was Paul Thomas Anderson's largest budget. It made 70 million domestically. It made 200 worldwide, which sounds like a lot of money, but when you factor in the marketing costs and you factor in that they split revenue with the theaters, this is not a huge win at the box office. Yet this is a movie that will have a long life because if you didn't see it in theaters, you're going to see it when it hits HBO Max, you're going to see it after the Oscar run that it goes on. This is a movie that's going to live in our culture for a long time. And so there's the argument to be made that sometimes studios need to take these risks to make big original films. It doesn't happen that much anymore. And these are the movies we should be supporting if we want to see more them. And if it's any sign of what the movie business is going through right now, it's unlikely we're going to get a lot more movies like this one.

I loved this movie so much, and I can't wait to see it four more times.

You know what's amazing about it, too? It's increasingly rare, I think, for movies to instantly give us a few phrases or memes that everybody latches onto and talks about. This one, there's a line that Benicio Del Toro says.

I've had a few.

A few what? A few small beers.

He says he's had a few small beers. This has cropped up as a wonderful little marketing tactic. But I've even seen Art House Cinemas starting to post things saying, Come down and have a few small beers with us. Yeah. I love that. That's great writing or great directing. That's a great film.

Did you go to the Culture Department holiday party the other night?

I sure did.

What did you have to drink?

We had a few small beers.

I'd love to talk about another absolutely fantastic movie that came out this year. You're from the same studio. We're going to be talking a lot about Warner Brothers, maybe. Be not ironically, which was Sinners. I thought you all was dead set on buying the place. More time I spend with you all, unless sure I am, you boys are serious about it.

Ain't no boys here. I just grown me.

You've grown me money and grown me in bullets. This is a movie that has stayed all year in the conversation for... This is one of the better movies of the year, let alone big studio Hollywood Movies of the Year. It's one that potentially is going to be in the awards hunt. It made a ton of money. Nicole, do you want to tell us about Sinners?

Yes. Sinners is from director Ryan Coogler, who we know from Black Panther and from Fruitvale Station. Back from the beginning of his career, he has been able to make both Art House movies and big movies. It's a vampire movie. It's also a movie about racism. It's also a movie that has a ton of music in it, and it's really sexy and fun, and it's a really good time at the movies. What's crazy about it is it's also completely original, never been heard of before. It made $280 million in the US. It's in the top 10 of the box office, which no one ever would have predicted. If you had seen the lineup of movies that were coming out this year, no one would have ever said, yes, Sinners, that's going to be in the top 10. Never would have thought that. It's a massive hit. Michael B. Jordan is fantastic in it. He plays two characters. He should win. Who does he win for? Both. Yes, he's amazing. Good question. The movie's tremendous, and it's really fun. It is another example of a studio taking a risk. It's really amazing that they scored with two really original, very different films from a tour is really at the top of their game making really good movies.

Sinners was a top 10 box office hit for the year. It also was in an equally important top 10. It was in your top 10.

It sure was. Yes. I had seen it in press screenings, and then I went back and saw it in IMAX in the middle of the day this fall. And so this is important because the movie came out in April, and it's been on people's televisions available to see. And it was a sold-out public screening in the middle of the day. So this movie is still making money in the theater. That's how popular it is, which I just think is tremendous. There was also a moment this summer where I felt like every bar I went to had sinners playing on the television in the corner. I've been at a lot of dinner parties where people have argued over what it is about and what it means. I just thought this is a genuine cultural phenomenon. And how impressive is Ryan Coogler for being able to make the studio do this? As Nicole was saying, it's very hard to get a studio to let you have this creative control.

Both of these films, One Battle After Another and Sinners, are both WB movies. They're both Warner Brothers films. And obviously, the sale of Warner Brothers is the big entertainment story of the year. Nicole, you went on the Daily earlier this month when the news actually broke and talked about your reporting around that. I'd encourage our listeners to go check that out. The thing that I'm thinking about is that this comes at the end of an incredible wild year for Warner Brothers. We're all focusing on what's happening now. But if you look at the arc of how this company, and we're talking about this company on this podcast because of the movies they put out. If you look at their arc, it's been That's fascinating. Can you remind us where we were with Warner Brothers at the beginning of this year?

Yes, and specifically about the movie studio itself, because it's run by Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi. They're the co-chairmen of the studio. They, at the beginning of the year, were facing this sentiment that I think had been prompted by insiders at the studio that were suggesting that they were going to be out at any moment. They had a rough 2024, a rough end of 2024, where they had Furiosa, then they had Todd Phillips' Joker sequel, which I really put that whole movie out of my mind so quickly. Anyway, sidebar. I forgot about that. And so there was rumors that they were getting canned at any time. It was really like the drum beat for it was really loud, and it was really harsh. It just felt really mean. This was right up until Minecraft came out.

Then Minecraft was this big, huge hit that I don't think a lot of people expected.

It prompted all these memes. People were throwing stuff in theaters, which I'm sure the theater owners were super pleased about, but it became like a big thing where everyone had to show up and go, and kids were showing up in movie theaters, which- This was a Minecraft movie.

It came out two weeks before Sinners, early April, based on open-world game, and it was just a box office sensation. It was.

It's the number one movie of the year. So that happened. Then they had Sinners, which on paper, again, was not going to be a box office hit. It's an expensive, art housey movie because it had a lot to say and had all these things. And then that, again, a huge hit. They have had this string of massive hits all through the year. They had weapons, and they had Final Destination, and we could talk about all these movies. Suddenly, this movie studio had just a run that we haven't seen in this business in a while from one studio. Then, of course, Superman, too, which... Not Superman, too, but Superman also.

Superman as well.

Superman as well, which was also a massive hit. They had this incredible run, and it's still going, and Oscar is likely going to go in their favor. They did really well at the Golden Globe nominations. We have this crazy success story for a company that is now going to be either part of Netflix or part of Paramount in the next 12 to 18 months whenever and if this deal gets done.

You mentioned a lot of movies there. I think we should dig into some of them. I think so. Minecraft movie aside, which, again, biggest hit of the year. I took my son to see it. Chicken jockey for life, et cetera, et cetera. I'd love to talk about Superman.

Which we love.

There's a code to close the rip, but it's too complicated to hack. Luther will have the code at Luther Corp. Just give me a minute. I'll get crypto and we'll go- You brought that dog, man. Yeah, I didn't want him killing my parents' cows. Came out mid-July. This was directed and written by James Gunn, who, in addition to being the creative mind behind this movie, is also now the creative mind behind the entire DC, comic Book, Project N Universe at Warner Brothers?

I mean, one thing that... Okay, so I loved this movie to the extent that I believe I put a critic's pick on it when I reviewed it. I just enjoyed watching it. It has a very funny sense of humor, and it has a visual sense, too. I mean, several of the best jokes in it are actually visual gags. I knew where I was all the time when there were fight scenes, which I can't say for virtually any Marvel movie. But also, one thing I loved about this movie, and what it indicated to me is something James Gunn has said in his taking over of this, which is that we will make the movies when I feel like the screenplay is ready. I have not always felt that out of Marvel. Sometimes it's felt like they're making the movie because, well, they have to get the next puzzle piece in place because they've got a production schedule to stay on.

They have those events where they announced all the dates. It's like, This is when this movie is coming out. This is when this movie is coming out. We don't know what movie is coming out in this date, but there will be a movie.

There will be a movie on this date. For me, that signals someone who's thinking about these as films. Ironically, the times I've felt that in the Marvel universe, it's been the movie directed by Ryan Coogler, right? This one just feels like a movie that has thoughts in its head, and it's saying something. It actually says something real. As soon as I saw it, I I'm sure you felt the same way. I thought, Oh, this is going to kick up controversy. It did, and it still went on to make a ton of money.

How are you not mentioning the dog?

Oh, and the dog, of course.

Bury the lead.

Crypto. Crypto, the dog. Crypto with a K. The best dog. Crypto with a K. He's such a good boy.

I'm so sorry, Crypto.

He's such a good boy.

Oh, he is the best dog. Yes, I'm sure Crypto was responsible for at least 300 million of the box office returns.

Nicole, what is going to happen to DC if this all goes through?

Oh, boy.

It's going to be a nice little tile on Netflix's home screen. No, we don't know. This is their reboot. As you said, they're under a new leadership with James Gunn and Peter Safrin. And so far, so good. They're showing that they are making movies that people want to see, and Supergirl is the next one on the list. That is part of the reason why Warner Brothers is an attractive acquisition, because They do have a huge library of assets, including the whole DC universe is one of them. That's why Paramount wants them, and that's why Netflix wants them. I mean, Netflix has said that they are going to keep Warner Brothers' theatrical operation going, and they are going to keep putting movies in theaters. We have no idea how long that will last, and we have no idea how committed they are, even though they are saying so, because they have never been big fans of the theatrical movie-going experience. They want movies to come to their platform as quickly as possible. They're saying all the right things to get the deal done. Then the answer will... We also don't know who's going to be the buyer.

So if they get it, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

There's so much that's going to happen in this story. I would love to talk about another great movie that just happens to be a Warner Brothers movie, which is Weisons. We're talking about 17 kids in one classroom, and none of them talked about it. We got how many parents in here, and none of us saw it coming? I want to know what happened in that classroom. Why just her classroom? Why only her? This is a horror film that came out in August, written and directed by Zack Crager, who had previously done a movie called Barbarian. It stars Julia Garner, Josh Brolin, famously now, Amy Madigan, and a bunch of other people. It's been a great year for horror movies. It's always a great year for horror movies. This is yet another movie, Nicole, as you were saying, that's not based on pre-existing IP, came out of the gate with a trailer and a poster that I feel immediately obsessed people. It was an experience to see this movie in a movie theater, which I did not do, and I am bummed out about it. But I it in a house with a bunch of people who had not seen it before.

We're not going to ruin the end here, but there comes a point at the end in which people are just standing up in the house and clapping. Amazing. It's absolutely incredible.

I saw it in a theater. I went to a normal, like an Alamo draft house to see it, and I was seated- Do you have anything to drink? I had a few small beers, in fact. I was seated between a bunch of people I didn't know. I went by myself, so I was between all these ladies, and they were screaming, which was really the best way to see it. But then I was at my local wine bar, and they were like, We're going to throw weapons on, which they did. Everyone in the room seemed to have not seen it except me. I can tell you that is also a great way to see it.

Oh, my God.

It was delightful.

Alyssa, you have the best movie-going experiences, and they all involve small beers or small wines. I, unfortunately, saw it on the airplane because I'm super I'm super chicken when it comes to scary movies. So I was like, I got to watch it. But in this case, I'll be fine. And then I was wanting to scream, too. But I kept it all tamped down.

I mean, the one of many interesting things about this film is that it's a horror movie in quotes, but it's actually it's mostly just a suspense mystery that has a couple of horrific elements. A couple of jump scares, there are actually not that many. And then there's a grand guignol ending in a sense. But a lot of this is just like, what is happening? What is going on? Where did these kids disappear to?

Yes. And Zack Krieger's background is in comedy, too, which I think really comes out in this film. Just the timing is impeccable. There's a scene, again, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a scene involving a door and some scissors where everybody... The timing is just perfect. The way everything happens, you're I spun up. I mean, I've seen it a couple of times, and both times I was like, You know.

I thought you were going to say the scene with the syringes.

Well, it's not too.

Okay, maybe it is a horror movie.

I mean, it is. Barbarian also is one of the most terrifying movies I've ever seen. But, you know, comedy and horror are just two sides at the same point.

Well, Barbarian, if I'm recalling correctly, the end of that movie is terrifying and hilarious at the same time. Yes.

It is a terrifying and hilarious hilarious movies. So, yeah, if you know how to make people laugh, you know how to make them scream.

All right, let's take a little break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about witches, good ones and wicked ones. We're going to talk about Avatar, Fire and Ash, one of the big movies of the year that has just come out. And we might even talk about some great movies that you haven't heard about yet or haven't had a chance to see. We'll be back in a second. So, Nicole, we've been talking a lot about Warner Brothers. We were talking about movie-wise, how great their year was, but it actually has been, at the same time, a bit of a crummy year, and certainly a crummy fall for many other studios, many other movies. Our colleague, Brooks Barnes, wrote a story in mid-fall about how October was just the bust of all bust. It was the worst October at the box office in almost 30 years, you had movies like The Smashing Machine, a third for some reason, Tron movie, the Springsteen movie, The Running Man, Roofman, movies that had movie stars and all just went floppety flop. What happened there?

I mean, Hollywood could not catch a break. It was like everything they threw at the screen just didn't stick, whether it was a big sci-fi movie like Tron, whether it was a biopic about a beloved loved musician like the Springsteen movie, whether it was movies starring Margot Robbie, Colin Farrell, Channing Tatum, Jennifer Lopez, Austin Butler, Robert Pattyzen, Emma Stone, Russell Crowe. Name all these famous movie stars that people usually run out to the theaters to see and nothing hit. It was really grim. I don't know if there's one explanation for it. I think there's many I think we're living in an era where getting people's attention has become harder and harder. I think if critic reviews come out, social media spreads super fast. You know if you have a hit or a bomb before something even debuts, marketing can no longer hide that any longer. It's just the movie business has always been a really tough business. This fall felt like it was almost impossible.

Yeah, it was a bummer fall. But all of a sudden around Thanksgiving time, something happened.

I've heard it said that people come into our lives for a reason.

Wicked for Good, the sequel to the first musical about Glenda the Good and Elphaba, The Wicked Wish, came out and made a ton of money. It's not going to make as much money as the first one, but it was this pink and green injection into the box office. I feel like it desperately needed.

We had a whole episode here on the Sunday special about Wicked for Good.

Neither of you were on it, so I'd love to hear any thoughts if you have them.

I mean, I did not... I was not so into it. I enjoyed the first one more, but I am happy about people going to a theater and enjoying a movie. So that's my feeling. Also, I had multiple people comment to me that it felt like the marketing push wasn't as big for this one. And as I pointed out to them, the marketing for this one is the previous movie that everyone saw. I think that accounts for box office. And it is the movie that I think will have legs. People will still be seeing it into the holiday season. I continue to find Ariana Grande in particular, delightful in this movie as well.

And it's made $300 million in the US so far, so it's not exactly... So it's doing great. Yeah, not a flop. Not a flop at all. And also, how do you go bigger than the first Wicked movie when it comes to marketing? I mean, That was an insane marketing push. That was really tremendous.

Alyssa, what did you think about the politics of the film?

I mean, it has them. It gets much floppier in the second one, I think. Yeah. I mean, it's It's funny because these are movies very explicitly about fascism. I don't know if it's as obvious in the second one.

Did you feel for the animals in the same way that Elphaba did?

I feel like this is a trap.

It's not a trap. It's a settle for a transition, which is to talk about our next film, which is about animals.

I felt deeply for the animals, but not the way that I feel about crypto.

Crypto with a K. Let's talk about Zutopia 2.

Okay.

Unfortunately, Karen has chosen to see Joel's smile as a sign of aggression.

Hackles down, Karen. This one came out right before Thanksgiving, and holy cow, so many people went to see it. I did not know that there were this many people who had been waiting so long for the further adventures of Judy Hopp and nick the Fox.

I mean, it's quite a beloved movie in my household, and my teenagers are no longer teenagers. So there's something sticky about this movie that really brought people back to the theaters. Did you guys see any of the screenings that were happening in China where they were letting people come to the theaters with their pets and watch it with them? That's amazing.

I don't know how I feel about that. I love that. Like, what animals?

I think it was mostly dogs. Horses. I have a very large dog that almost is like a mini horse. So if he had come to the theater, it would have been quite a Can a cat stay still for a movie?

Do they have the attention span?

I think cats can do whatever they want. I mean, this does raise something, which is that it feels like there's, I hear this from parents all the time, that there aren't enough movies for children ever in theaters. It seems like many parents are desperate to have something to do with their kids, especially when the weather is bad and a movie is a nice thing to go do. Every time there's a halfway passibly decent movie for kids in the theaters, it makes a ton of money, and everyone seems really surprised by this. But I feel like when I was a kid, there was a new kid's movie in the theater every weekend. Where are they? I don't know.

So Zutopia has been great for Disney, which has had a bit of an up and down year. And this month is another huge, huge, huge Disney film, Avatar: Fire and Ash, the third film in James Cameron's super colorful Pandora set series of films. I got you two. It's okay. What is that? What is that? So they stick together. No, the other one.

So they never quit.

That's right. So he's never quit. Do people care about Avatar? We make these jokes. Does Avatar have a cultural footprint? And apparently it does.

Apparently it does. They make so much money. Yeah, I've seen it. It's an avatar movie. It's about the folks on Pandora. The Na'vi. The Na'vi and the humans. And it's about colonialism, and this one's very much about family.

Also, political film is what you're saying.

I mean, such as it is. I am not a huge fan of these movies. They leave me cold, but they are eye-popping. They remain eye-popping. Don't even bother seeing it if you're not seeing it in 3D. Movie, which actually is a great thing for theaters, obviously. But James Cameron made one of the greatest movies of all time, Titanic. And this movie and the previous movie, the avatar movie, have elements that are definitely him taking things he did in Titanic and doing them on Pandora. There's pleasure to be had in watching that.

Alyssa, do you know how many times I saw Titanic in the movie theater?

Twenty-five.

That's way too much. That's zero.

It was in theaters for a year and a half.

That would impoverish someone. No, I saw it in the theater six times when it came out. Yeah.

I mean, it was on my sight and sound ballot as one of the greatest movies of all time a couple of years ago. Oh, my God. I don't think there's a better Hollywood movie like ever. Yeah. It's the platonic ideal of a Hollywood movie.

King of the World. Nicole, James Cameron. He just keeps doing Everyone makes fun of him. He's like, Another avatar movie. Oh, Titanic. It's going to be a bust. What is this? And then he wins.

He wins, and he's the hero of the movie business. Him and Chris Nolan are the guys who are so dedicated to the theatrical experience. Thank God for those guys. If we didn't have those guys, would we still have movie theaters? I mean, they're the ones who keep making these enormous spectacles that have to be seen in theaters. You have fans who are just so obsessed, especially with Avatar, who have to go over and over because they're so addicted to that world of Pandora. Remember when the first one came out and how people were just going constantly? It was insanity. Why wouldn't he just keep making these movies and living in this world and still trying to get Oscar love for the motion capture performances by his actors, which doesn't seem to be resonating with the academy in an artistic way, but he's still fighting that battle, too.

Nicole, how do you think the movie business is going to end up feeling about this year as a whole?

Oh, that's such a loaded question. I think the biggest concern right now for the industry is what is going to happen with Warner Brothers. Consolidation is not good for any industry, and that's true of Hollywood as well. Ironically, what we have seen this year has been astounding. We've seen a lot of lows that we talked about, but we also saw a lot of highs with films that were completely original, that are not based on IP, that are not the things, the tried and true Hollywood formula that have done really well. If we didn't have all these outside economics of which company is carrying which debt and which shareholders are upset about the performance of a certain company, we would have had a year that really shows that taking risks and being imaginative and original really pays off. I mean, if we were just dealing with strictly art, we'd be in such a better place. But instead, the commerce has really taken over in such a profound way that we're going to see a business that has already contracted, keep contracting. It's not going to be great for artists. It's not going to be great for all those people that have dedicated their lives to making movies.

And so right now, things are not so super in Hollywood.

You know what, Nicole? I think you're absolutely right. However, we are not going to end this episode on a down note. We are going to all go around and recommend some amazing films that we saw this year. Yeah, we are. I want to start with Alyssa, who wants to talk about a little ping-pong player.

A little ping-pong player played by Timothée Chalamet in a movie called Marty Supreme. Hello.

Hey, it's Marty Mouser. I'm in the Royal Suite. I saw you in the lobby yesterday. Okay. Well, they never talk to an actual movie star.

You know, I'm something of a performer, too. It is about a young man in the 1950s who is on a quest to become a champion ping-pong player. It is like uncut gems in that it's like a two-and-a-half hour panic attack, but in the best way possible. I had so much fun with this movie, and honestly, the early reviews or the early responses had been so positive that I went in with my arms crossed, but it totally won me over. It has the best performance I've seen out of Gwyneth Paltrow in the years. An amazing Fran Drescher performance, which is not something I was expecting to say this year. Great music from the '80s, mostly on the soundtrack. It's just if you liked Uncut Gems, you're going to like Marty Supreme. But even if you didn't, you should give it a shot. It feels like something you should be watching this time of year.

Nicole, you want to talk about a film that has won a ton of awards this year. So far, it won the top prize at Cann this summer. It is by one of world cinema's most acclaimed directors.

Yes. It was just an accident by Jaafar Panahi, who's an Iranian filmmaker.

He did win the Palmdor in Cann.

It was acquired by Neon, and they have released the last five or six Palmdors, giving Tom Quinn the nickname of Palm to Oracle.

I don't think I'd heard that.

That's beautiful.

It is. It's a tremendous film that Panahi shot in Iran, undercover. To make a movie in Iran today, you have to submit your script to the officials, and that is not something that Mr. Panahi, who has spent time in jail for making movies, was willing to do. It was a run and gun operation. It's about a group of people who have previously been prison, and they think they found the man who tortured them, and they're trying to determine if it is, in fact, that person. It's actually funny. It's really well done, and it has so much to say about who are the evil ones and how you behave in these situations and how do you forgive and all these very interesting questions. It's tremendous. Panahi, I believe, will likely get a director nomination from the Academy this year. It's that good.

Well, I agree with all of that. I also just really respect Panahi and his gumption. Every movie he's made has been phenomenal. I've been seeing them at Cannes for years, but he's not been able to be there because there's always been a travel ban, or he's been under house arrest or in prison. This was the first time that he has been traveling. He was here in New York for New York Film Festival. I was able to see him in conversation with Martin Scorsese, and it was clear how much Scorsese respected him. It's a great film. I hope people really make a point of seeing it.

I hope so, too. I recently saw this one, and it's a tight social thriller, almost. And the last two scenes of this, it's hard to do a great ending, and it's just a knock I mean, it's emotional. It's incredibly tense. It's scary in its own way. It's incredible. And the increasing internationalization of the academy over the past few years, resulting in Parasite winning Best Picture and movies directed by non-American directors getting best director nominations, I think is just going to continue with this or with a film like Sentimental Value or other films like that this year.

Yes. Also an excellent movie.

Listen, tell us about the Shaker Musical.

I know. A musical drama about the 18th century founder of Shakerism is perhaps not a movie anybody ever expected to exist. Certainly not me. I actually grew up right next to the Shaker settlement that Ann Lee founded Upstate. So I was delighted when I heard that this was happening. The movie is called The Testament of Anne Lee. I hunger and thirst, I hunger and thirst. After true righteousness, I hunger and thirst. It stars Amanda Seyfried as Anne Lee. It's written and directed by Mona Fasswell, who, among other things, was co-writer of The Brutalist last year. It is a weird movie. I don't know how else. I've never seen anything like it. The thing I've been telling people is that in any other hands, it would be a horror film. It's a biopic, essentially, Cradle the Grave. It's about a woman who is very idiosyncratic. She's got her own ideas about what it means to be devoted to God, what it means to live a pure life. That's basically the movie. You're just watching this one woman, and it's all in on her and her ecstasy through her devotion. It's probably not for everybody, but it definitely, definitely was for me.

It has beautiful music, beautiful dancing, incredibly committed performance by Amanda Seyfried. I think if any of that appeals to you, it's a movie you should definitely seek out. It is one of those movies that I think really benefits from you being smaller than the film. You want it to be big on the screen, so you can be overwhelmed by the experience.

Nicole, you have a film that I'm embarrassed to say I had not heard of.

It's called Come See Me in the Good Light.

I wrote a column about this.

Excuse me, do you know how much we- We both wrote about this movie because I think we were both very struck by this movie. All right. Well, egg on my face.

Anyway, this is the movie called Come See Me in the Good Light, and it is about the poet Andrea Gibson, who passed away this summer from cancer.

Last time I was reading the beginning of this to Meg, and I said, If I was a documentary filmmaker, I would definitely begin the documentary with the beginning of this poem as a voiceover as something was happening, and Meg's like, Well, what would be happening? I'm like, I don't know. Maybe my funeral. Then you hear Meg's like, No.

It was so awkward. The most gorgeous, life-affirming, uplifting film that you could see about someone battling cancer. It may seem like a hard sell going in that you don't want to watch a movie that's this sad, but it actually... You will sob your face off, I will tell you that ahead of time, but you come out of it feeling different because of how they process tragedy and sorrow and end of life. This is person who has dealt with a lot of things through their entirety of their life, but actually felt awakened when they received their terminal cancer diagnosis. Their poetry is really It's simple and deep all at the same time. It's very accessible. It's really a tremendous film. Dolphin Swims.

As riveting as those things may be, none of them ignite me as much as what most of us were to think of as the little things. These are my biggest, tiniest dreams.

It was at Sundance. It won the Audience Award at Sundance. It's a movie to watch, actually, at home. I interviewed Andrea and Megan back at Sundance, and that's what they wanted. They wanted this to be a movie that you watch at home because they let you into their home, and it's the perfect place to watch it, under the just sit there and let all the emotions out, let everything you're feeling come to a head right there watching it. It's really a profound experience.

Okay, that actually does sound amazing.

Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. Andrea's poetry is also woven into the film. So if you're not familiar with Andrea Gibson's poetry, you will be introduced to their poetry. It's great.

I would like to make a plug solely for the biplane sequence at the end of Mission Impossible: The Final Work.

I thought you were going to say Train Dreams, but also Mission Impossible is good.

No, no. And the second, the submarine sequence, but the rest of that movie was not particularly good. No, it wasn't. But it's streaming now. So if you just want to watch the last half hour, you see Tom Cruise once again put himself, you know.

President of movies.

Put himself on the verge of death for our entertainment and edification, you can and you should.

Also a big proponent of the theatrical experience, that guy.

Yep.

He loves popcorn.

And coconut cakes at the end of the year to send all his friends.

Yep.

Oh, I can't wait to get mine. All right, we are going to take a break, and when we come back, we will end as we do and as we have every week with a game. Okay, Alyssa and Nicole, we are going to end this episode as we end every episode with a little game. I have three rounds of movie-related delights for the two of you today. Okay, please put your hands on your buzzers. Are you both ready?

Yes.

Sure.

I'm going to need more energy from you, Nicole. Okay.

I'm ready. I'm excited.

Okay. And action. Round one is called Global Recall. Movies are increasingly a global business. American movies are often released under different titles in different parts of the world. In this round, I will give you the real, actual title under which a popular American movie from this year was released abroad, and you give me the American title of the Are these all going to be French because they're the craziest ones? Oh, boy. I have a terrible French accent. No. Okay. This sports biopic was released in Turkey under the title Fighting Legend. Alyssa. Smashing machine. The Smashing machine. That is correct. In Germany, this star studied romantic dramedy was called What is Loveworth? Anyone?

Nope.

The answer is materialists. Oh, of course. Materialists. All right. This genre spoof, which I know you both love, was released in Belgium as Is Is there a cop to save the world? Nicole.

Naked Gun.

The Naked Gun. That is correct.

Great. You got one.

Great work of cinema. You got one. Great work of cinema. Everyone goes to it.

Ideal snowman sequence.

This classic blockbuster, rereleased this year for its anniversary, came out in France with the title The Teeth of the Sea.

Nicole. Jaws.

Jaws. That is correct.

That's a great title. The Teeth of the Sea.

I prefer that.

The teeth of the sea. That was round one. Let's go to round two. Don't say, I didn't Warner you. Oh, gosh. The sale of Warner Brothers is big news here at the end of the year. Big entertainment companies merge and buy each other all the time, and that can make for some really weird business relationships. So in this round, I'm going to name a company, and you tell me if that company has ever, in its history, been owned by Warner Brothers.

Okay. I feel like I might lose this round.

Okay. Let us begin. The movie review site Rotten Tomat. Alyssa. Yes. Yes, that is correct. Rotten Tomato's is owned by Flixter, which was owned by Warner Brothers from 2011 to 2016.

I feel as a critic, Alyssa, that was yours to know, so I'm happy for you.

Yeah, I unfortunately have thought too much about Rotten tomatoes.

Next clue. Dairy Queen. Alyssa. No. No is correct. Okay, good. Dairy Queen is owned by Warren Buffet's Company, Berkshire Hathaway.

Nice.

Next. Six Flags. Nicole. Yes. Yes, that is correct. Time Warner owned Six Flags for a couple of years in the '90s. Next. The Internet Movie Database. Alyssa.

Yes.

That's incorrect. Imdb is owned by Amazon.

Oh, yes. All right.

The Atlanta Braves. Nicole.

Yes, because Ted Turner owned it.

That is correct. When Time Warner acquired Turner Broadcasting System in 1996, it also acquired his ownership stake, Ted Turner's ownership stake in the Braves. All right. Final Round of this game, final round of this game. Final round of the year. Round three is called the GCU, the Gilbert Cinematic Universe. Have you ever wondered what your favorite movies of 2025 would it sound like if they started Gilbert Cruise? I certainly did not. But our crack team here has inserted me into some of this year's hottest movies. I'm going to play you a clip. You get a point if you can name the movie, another point if you can name the character I'm playing, and a third point if you can name the actor that I replaced. So there are three possible points for each question. Oh, boy. Okay. Are you ready?

Yes.

Roll it. Chicken jockey. Nicole.

It's Minecraft.

It is the Minecraft movie. Do you want to go for the other two points? No. Name the character I'm playing and name the actor I replaced.

No, I think that's where my knowledge ends.

You don't even know the actor.

I mean, I can say Jack Black, but I think that's Jack Black is correct.

Oh, yay. Very good. Alyssa, do you know the character name?

I have no idea.

Jack Black plays the character name Steve.

Oh, yeah. I actually knew that.

But an imaginative name.

Famously. Okay, Nicole, great job. Thank you. Let's go to our next slip. I'm Punk Rock.

You are not Punk Rock.

I like the Strangle Fellos, the PODs, and the Mighty Crabjoys.

Those are pop radio bands.

They're not Punk Rock.

The Mighty Crabjoys suck.

Well, a lot of people love them.

My point is that question.

This is so embarrassing.

This is amazing.

Nicole, you busted first.

Okay, I think it's caught stealing.

What? Nicole, that isn't correct. Alyssa, you can steal.

This is Superman.

This is Superman.

I mean, Superman at this point.

I am Superman. That is correct.

I was debating between Superman and Clark Kent. I am Superman. It's David Cornsweat.

David Cornsweat. You got three points there. Great job. We're going to just keep it going here. All right. Next clip.

Where are you all from?

Just down the road.

And how far is that? North Carolina.

You all clean?

Sir, we believe in equality and music. We just came here to play. Spend some money. Have a good time. Here, I'll show you. I pick for Robin Clean. Alyssa.

Okay, it's Sinners.

Correct.

And it's the Irish vampire, but I can't remember his name. I'm also blanking on who the actor is.

Gashin B'Gora. You don't know who it is?

No, I'm blanking on his name. Okay. Yeah, I don't give a bet.

Nicole.

It's Jack O'Connell.

Who's he playing?

The Irish guy.

The Irish vampire. Whose name is- The Irish vampire.

His name is Remek. Remek. Remek. Okay. We're going to see how they score that. All right, next clip. Why are you so strong? But I whisper him and he came true. We said one day. That was our deal. What does that say? On the refrigerator? We are not keeping this thing. Ohana means family. Family It means nobody gets left behind or... Or forgotten.

Lilo and Stitch.

Yes, it's Lilo and Stitch. It's Lilo and Stitch. Who am I playing and what actor did I replace?

Lilo or Stitch.

I don't know. I don't know. I refused on principle to see this movie.

I don't know. Okay, I'm playing Lilo.

Oh, very good. They're good.

Stitch is not the verbal.

Stitch is the alien. I replace the actor Maya K. Aloha.

Oh.

Okay. Last clip. Let's make this one count. Okay. Not moved. Do you have any weapons on you, sir. No, sir.

Are you running from us?

I had a long day, ma'am.

You didn't see the lights back there?

Yes, I did.

What did you toss out of the vehicle?

Excuse me?

What did you toss out of the vehicle back there?

Trash. You sure about that? Yes, ma'am.

You've been drinking today?

I had a few. A few what? A few small beers. Yeah.

Alyssa. It's one battle after another. It's Vinicia Sergio Del Toro, and I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the character.

Nicole, do you recall the name of the character?

No, but it's my favorite performance of the year.

Sensei Sergio.

Sensei Sergio. But it's the best line the year as we've established. It is.

Yes. Thank you for that. You're very welcome. Thank you both for being so game to participate in that. We have a winner, and it was incredibly close. Alyssa, you have won. You won by one point.

Oh, congrats.

Thank you.

So close. Alyssa, you win an actual prize. That prize, I'm going to bring out of this bag here.

Oh, it's in a black bag, folks.

It's a small black bag. Another good movie this year. It is a small, cheap, mass-produced golden trophy. With my face on it, we call it the Gilby.

It will join my previous Gilby.

Wow. I love the branding of Gilbert on this whole show. I had no idea.

As do I, I have to say. That's shocking. Alyssa, Nicole, thank you for joining the final episode of the Sunday Special. Alyssa, thank you so much.

Thank you for inviting me.

Nicole, calling in from sunny Los Angeles. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Today's episode was produced by our quiz master Alex Baron, with help from Tina Antolini and Kate Lepreste. It was edited by Wendy Dore and engineered by Daniel Ramirez. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Elisabeth Etoupe, and Diane Wong. Special thanks to Paula Schumann. Well, that is a wrap. As I said, this is our last Sunday special. It has been a real blast coming to you every Sunday here for the past several months. I hope you all enjoyed it. I host another weekly podcast over at the New York Times Book Review called Creatively Enough: The Book Review podcast. Come on over and give it a listen. Happy New Year, everybody. Bye.