Transcript of Sunday Special: The 10 Best Horror Movie Franchises

Hey, it's Lauren Dragon from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times, and I test headphones. We basically make our own fake sweat and spray it over and over on these headphones to see what happens to them over time. We're going to put on some noise canceling headphones and see how well they actually block out the sounds. I have 3,136 entries in my database. Kids, workout, what version of Bluetooth?

At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to.

For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come visit us at nytimes.

Com/wirecutter. I'm Gilbert Cruz, and this is the Sunday special. I could not be more excited about today's episode. Producers, cue the spooky music. I love Halloween. I love the spooky vibes. I love candy. I specifically love mini Heathbars. But maybe more than all of that, I am obsessed with scary Movies, and that is what we are talking about today. Here with me is Eric Piepenberg. He is the horror movie columnist at the Times. Hi, Eric.

Hello, Gilbert.

Our first returning guest. What an honor. Jason Zinniman, a critic at large and the author of the book, Shock Value: How A Few Eccentric Outsiders Give Us Nightmires, Conquered Hollywood, and invented modern horror. Why is this subtitle so long?

It's way too long. I was young. But I just sold the French rights. It's coming out in France. Literally Hey, I sign the rights. Zut alors.

Welcome, Jason. Good to be here. Okay, I brought the two of you on here for a very particular reason. Today, we're going to come up with the definitive list of the greatest horror franchises in cinema history, according to us three. We're going to make this list. We're all going to We're going to get along, and then we'll all hug at the end. Maybe. Maybe? Yeah, we'll see.

Got to keep some suspense, Gilbert.

You're right. Okay. Before we jump into this task, and it is a hardy task, I want to know how you all are feeling about the current state of horror movies. How are we feeling about where the genre is right now in this year, 2025? Eric.

I'm feeling good about it. I think we are in a prolonged golden age of horror right now. The period that started with Get Out, I think, is continuing. When I think about just this year alone, We weapons as just one of the best horror movies I've seen in quite some time, We're seeing a lot of new faces, new ways of seeing horror. Jason, do you think so?

It's a little more optimistic than I would say. I think we're at the end of the golden age, or I think maybe the old days, yes, it did. But I have to say, if I was to sum up the the era right now in a word, it would be respectable, which is in both senses of the word. We're in an era of prestige, Oscar bait, horror, sinners, weapons, Franken sign. This all are going to be in the conversation. This is not in the disreputable era, right? But if you judge a horror era by its mediocrities, it's not too bad either. I liked Dangerous Animals, which is like another shark movie. I just watched this movie Drop, which, again, is not going to last the test of time. It's a set all in one bad date, but it works as a thriller. I think it's been a better year than the last couple, I would say.

It is interesting because both of you talked about these big studio horror movies, Sinners, Weisons, the latest in the Final Destination franchise, which we will talk about, Bloodlines, and then the latest, Conjuring movie, which is one of the most successful horror franchises of all time. Those are all out, but At the same time, it feels like there is still a thriving indie horror scene. This year, you had Bring Her Back. You had a movie Together, which was a Dave Franco, Allison Brea movie that was sold. I think it was one of the first movies sold at this year's Sundance Film Festival for a lot of money. So it feels like the studios are putting out pretty good horror, indies are putting out pretty good horror. The days of Blumhouse being the maker of cheap horror movies alone has fated a little bit because horror is a reliable box office draw, because whether you're a big studio or a small studio, you know that there's this very rabid fan base that everyone has gotten into the game.

I'd say the most interesting podcast I heard about the horror genre now this year was Jason Blum went on Matt Bellany's podcast, The Town, to talk about why the sequel to Megan, Megan 2, flopped.

Yeah, and this is Jason Blum, who is the man behind Blumhouse, which is produced and distributed a bunch of horror movies this century. Yeah, right. Exactly. Paranomal activity, insidious, a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah. He said, The days when cheap horror was the way to go are gone. For Jason Blum to say that is really something that he said that now with all the competition, you need an event. So you actually need to have an expensive horror. You need to really make a difference. I know a lot of people who disagree with that, and that caused a lot of waves. But the fact that he said it suggested there were some anxiety among the horror establishment about, Okay, where's the next Blairwich, Paranormal Activity, et cetera?

Yeah, I would say on the flip side of the big pictures, I would say one of the nice things about doing this column is that I get to discover under the radar indie movies. I'm thinking of a movie like Bleeding, which came out earlier this year. It was this vampire story told through the Eyes of Addiction, Good Boy, this new movie about this dog who goes to a haunted house. These small movies. Look, every month I have, I would say, from 15 to 20 brand new movies that are streaming to choose from. And that doesn't include the bigger movies. But to be able to see how many horror movie directors are just doing this small little movie that, to me, in some ways, is far more effective and scary than a movie like Together, which I didn't really like. That, to me, is what's exciting, that you have young faces who are using some of the horror conventions, but telling them in new, very disturbing ways.

I think we need to move to the meat of this conversation. So here's what we're going to do. We have a list here of a couple of dozen or so horror franchises that the group of us came up with. And listeners, I just want to say here right at the front, if your favorite franchise isn't on here, I don't know what to say. The show can only be so long. These franchises are arranged chronologically, and the goal here is to eventually get to a list of what we consider to be the 10 best horror franchises of all time. I think we should start by going through this big list. We'll give a quick yes or no to each of these franchises. Some, I think, are going to move on very quickly because they feel obvious or iconic, and then some were we're probably going to chat about a little bit before we make a decision. For the sake of this discussion, I'm defining a franchise as a series of related films. There's one film that results in multiple sequels that have recurring villains or recurring heroes or recurring locations. Does that sound right to the two of you?

I think that's a terrible definition. Okay, great. No, I think that- All right, so this podcast is going to be three hours long. Well, I guess let's start to begin. I think it's a good start. You asked when we were doing this, when does a horror movie franchise begin? To me, a Among the Universal Monster movies that started in 1931, which Frankenstein, Dracula, Jekyll and Hyde, the first one to have a major follow-up is Bright of Frankenstein.

You stay. We belong dead.

As soon as you have Bride of Frankenstein, to me, that's the first one. Yeah. I'm not sure that qualifies.

I think it does. I do think it qualifies. I think if you look back at all the Universal Monster movies, it definitely has the feel of a franchise. You have Bright of Frankenstein, as you mentioned, Son of Frankenstein. You have Frankenstein meeting the Wolfman eventually. You have this world before we ever thought about interconnected universes in which there's a house style. Characters are interacting with one another. You have essentially direct sequels to some of these movies. It feels like this is the beginning.

But what ties it all together in me is the monster and the character in a way that I would like to include like young Frankenstein. I like to include Sean of the Dead in the Dead series. I don't want to go by the rules of Hollywood producer.

Yeah, but you understand that we need to have rules here, right?

I'm horse about breaking rules, Gilbert, and that's what I'm here for. No, I'll go along with whatever definition you have.

Eric, we know who the chaos agent is. Can we agree Universal Franchise should proceed?

I think it should proceed. I hear you, Jason. I also think you make some really good points, but the answer is yes. For our purposes here, let's continue on that.

Okay, we're going to move to the early 1960s, 1960, in fact, when one of the first slasher movies, The First Slasher movie, if we consider Psycho, Alfred Hitchcock's all-time classic to be a slasher movie. We all go a little mad sometimes. Came out in 1960. No one thought it would be a franchise, but starting in the early '80s, you had Psycho 2, Psycho 3, and then Psycho 4 at the beginning, which was a prequel TV movie. This is very weird. We're going to encounter some of these. It's a franchise where the first movie is one of the greatest movies of all time. As a franchise, as something that is all held together, I don't know that I would put it on the list, but I'm looking at Jason and I know- Well, no.

Among horror nerds, Psycho 2 has developed a re-evaluative. You know, famous, Quintin Tarantino, Prefers It to Psycho, and he's not the only one. I watched it again. It's definitely not there in the first one, but it's a very good movie. It really digs into the things that the original not. I would also argue Gus Van Sant's equally disliked, Shot by Shot remake. I admire the ambition of that. I'm not saying it's my top 10, but I think that Psycho 2 plus the Gus Van Sand, three and four are terrible. Make it a worthy franchise, along with, obviously, one of the most important horror movies ever.

We're going to put this one on the bubble. Does that feel right?

That feels fine with me. Yeah, I'm good with that.

The Next one, The Night of the Living Dead series. Have concluded that in all cases, the killers are eating the flesh of the people they murdered. Repeating this-George Romero's extremely low budget movie that kicked off an entire subgenre within horror, the zombie movie. This feels important and iconic enough that we can automatically move this on to the list of films that we're going to discuss later.

Right.

Yeah.

Next, The Exorcist 1973. You killed your mother. I miss your servant. You left her alone to die. I love, love, love, love, love The Exorcist. First time I saw it was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had. I've been chasing that experience ever since for the rest of my life. Are you religious? Gilbert? I grew up Catholic. There you go. That makes a difference.

I got it.

It does make a difference.

Big difference, yeah.

I think it's worth putting on this list. I think I don't love the films after the original so much. I know, Jason, I think Have you picked a jump scare from the Exorcist films as one of your favorite jump scares recently.

Exorcist 3 is one of the best jump scares ever.

Which, look, watching those few minutes of that scene, I think, are truly one of the scariest things I've ever seen. So I appreciate that it has one of those scenes. But I don't love them. But in this discussion, thumbs up.

I'm going to give it thumbs up for one reason. One of the things I like about a franchise is when there's terrible movies in it.

I don't like- This is good.

In Exorcist 2, all I can say is James L Jones wears a bee suit.

It is a locus suit.

A locus suit.

Actually, in Exorcist 2: The Heretic, he wears a locus suit.

Okay, that alone, that image alone, I think, should qualify it to be under consideration as a memorable... It's a memorable movie. Eric's absolutely right. The third one has this one scene that's more memorable than most horror movies. I don't think it's going to end up being one of the top 10, but I would we should consider it.

All right. I'm just going to say the next one, which is the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Tobe Hooper's film from 1974. This should continue. So we're going to keep this one going. Jaws.

I have a confession. I have never seen Jaws, and I will never see Jaws. What the hell?

Sorry. What are you doing?

A producer's mouth's a gait.

Look, I have confessed this before, so this is not breaking news, but I have a terrible, horrible... I have a severe shark phobia. I remember sitting in Derry Queen in Cleveland, Ohio, looking at the poster of the giant jaws with that tiny little lady up at the top.

Yeah, iconic poster.

Iconic poster. It has scarred me for life. I don't go swimming. I don't go in swimming pools because there might be a jaw underneath me.

Why would a shark be in a swimming pool?

Toilets. They could be anywhere. I'm telling you, it's a severe phobia. Don't trigger me.

I'm going to make an executive decision here. The first movie, I would say one of the great horror movies, and then you have three terrible sequels. This doesn't feel like a horror franchise to me. It feels like a shark franchise. The Omen, 1976. Look at me, Damian. It's all for you.

You love this, The First Omen.

I thought the prequel that came out recently, The First Omen, directed by Arkasha Stevenson, was fantastic.

Fantastic. Fantastic. I agree.

The original Omen is a good horror movie, and then you had a bunch of not good stuff. I actually don't know. It's one of the more famous franchises from the '70s. I actually don't know if I would push it ahead.

Look, I've laid out a few things I think are important. One that I think we all agree is cultural footprint, and I'm not sure the Omen has that.

Yeah, it's like the avatar of horror movies. It's no cultural footprint. 1977's The The Hills Have Eyes. This is the first of several West Craven franchises on this list. You Van Van Duzey.

I got strong opinions on this. It should be on the list. What? It should be on the list. I'm going to say there's going to be some West Craven franchises that other people are going to want to put on, but I'm not.

I'm not happy with where this is going.

I know. Here's my case. The original and the reboot are both great. The reboot, the Alexander Ajah- There's a movie about a clan of cannibals that live in the desert. It's building on some Texas chainsaw elements. But I think it's a great franchise because it has this great movie, it has a crummy sequel, the fact that it has a successful reboot, which I don't think we'll be able to say about that many.

Have you seen these?

I haven't. I think it does not belong on this list. Like The Yeomen, I don't consider it a franchise necessarily, I think. I hear what you're saying, Jason. I don't think it belongs here for the same reasons as-Let's give it a yellow.

I appreciate Jason's passion. Okay, fair enough.

Yeah, I do, too.

I appreciate that about you. How dare you, Eric.

See, here's the thing about Jason. He's so smart and he's a classy thinker where I'm like, I like monster movies because heads explode because it's stupid. That's my take on it.

Here's the thing about Eric. You might know this, but he's from Cleveland, and he plays the Cleveland on the Rube card. He's smarter than any of us. His horror column, I never miss, must read. So don't fall for this. He's just trying to get Hillside Valley's out of here. Put Hillside on the list.

It's on the bubble. 1978 Halloween. You know, it's Halloween. It's Halloween. I guess everyone's entitled One Good Scare. In the running for the most influential horror movie franchise, one of the most influential horror movie franchises. This is just an automatic, we will discuss this later. We should move this along. Correct. Okay. Fantasm.

I've been waiting for you.

This is the one with the tall man who's creepy-looking, and there's these flying balls that have spikes.

I'm going to say Stone Cold Classic, most underrated horror film of the '70s. Good God.

I second that. What?

The Tall Man is one of the great horror movie villains. It should be. If we We live in a fair world, Gilbert, all right? If we lived in a just world, the Tall Man would be talked about the way Michael Myers and Leatherface are. Fantasm One great, Fantasm Two is great. Just surreal trippy imagery. Maybe the best mirror scare of all time, which is no small thing.

These have straight to video sequels. Do we feel like those count as part of a franchise?

That sweetens the pot. Absolutely. That's even more interesting.

That's delicious. Straight to video. I'll eat that up.

Absolutely. I put Fantasm as a franchise, and we can talk about above Halloween.

I'm fighting words, Jason, but I hear you.

I literally am struck.

Mute. I got a whole argument for it, but we can wait. We can hold up.

I'm usually fast with a comeback, but I don't know what to say about that. All right, let's put this on the bubble as well. The Amadille Horror 1979.

It's the passage to hell? Here's the thing about the Amadille Horror. I I counted, there are approximately 70 sequels to the Amadille Horror.

Yeah. Amadille is the name of a town on Long Island, and you can't copyright the name of a town.

Correct. Amadille has become the shorthand for just the scary and then plus this other thing. There's the Amadille Karen, there's the Amadille Christmas Vacation, there's the Amadille Gas chamber. I mean, there's just these ridiculous films made for $2 that you just slap on the word Amityville, and the town isn't happy about But that's okay. Some of the movies are great, most of them are bad. But as a franchise, yes.

You guys are out of your mind.

I'll say no. You guys are- I'll say no. I'll say no. No, because there's- So now Eric's not smart. Eric No, not a room. No, not a room. But he makes a good argument. He's almost persuade me with the 70. That's crazy. I have no idea. That is a very strong case for it. But I'm going to say, Haunted House, there's several Haunted House franchises that are better than this one. I I think that's part of why its cultural currency, which was huge once upon a time, has diminished. I would say it's not even the most successful horror franchise about a medieval horror.

All right, let's put it on the bubble. When there's a wholesale agreement, we'll move it forward. When there's disagree, we'll put it on the bubble. Alien 1979, first movie, Skunk Cold Classic.

Yes, we'll move on.

We'll move it forward. We're in the '80s now, the height of the slasher and we are going to come upon a couple of the all-time franchises, although I think Jason might disagree with one or two. No, no, no. Friday the 13th. Move it forward. Correct. Okay. Poltergeist.

They're here. I I don't know about this one. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's a franchise worth talking about.

I'm on the same page with you on that. Okay.

The Evil Dead. Why have you disturbed our sleep?

For sure.

Definitely qualifies.

Okay. 1984, A Nightmare on Elm Street. Please, God.

This is God.

I am a fan of the first one, which I think is tremendous. I know Eric, you are a fan of the second one.

I am a fan of the second one.

Freddie's Revenge.

Yeah, I got to gay it up for a second. The second Nightmare on Elm Street is considered the gay one. It is not subtext, it is text, and that is what I really enjoy about it. So I think for sure, Nightmare on Elm Street, especially the second one, which I think is influential in a lot of ways that I'm not sure people fully appreciate.

I would add that for me, I think a sign of great franchise, we can all point to ones we love. To me, it's the only franchise where the last one is my favorite.

This is New Nightmare.

New Nightmare, which I think all the credit that goes to Scream should go to Nightmare on Elm Street. New Nightmare was doing meta winking horror before Scream, and Freddy was a comic character before. It was basically turned into a comedy. I like the zigs and zags of it.

The next one, it's a bit of an odd one, but I'm going to throw it in here. 1986's Man Hunter, which is a Michael Mann movie. That's really a crime movie, but it starts what will become a horror franchise five years later with The Silence of the Lambs, which is one of the only horror movies to ever win Best Picture. The thing that Next to all of these, of course, is Hannibal Leclerc, played by Brian Cox in Man Hunter, and then Anthony Hopkins for the rest of the movies. You fly back to school now, little Stani.

Fly, fly, fly.

Is this a franchise that feels like it belongs in the all-time conversation?

I'm going to say no, but I would highly recommend people watch the Brian Cox scene where the detective comes in to visit him in the prison.

You are very tan, Will.

Your hands are rough. They don't look like cop's hands anymore. And then watch the same... The Jodie Foster coming in to see Hannibal Leclerc in Silence of Lambs.

You know what you look like to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a robe, a well-scrubbed hustling robe with a little taste.

To see two genius actors doing the same thing in different ways. I don't think of it as horror. It's almost like too classy for horror. Yeah, that's true.

Does classiness get in the way a bit?

Yeah, for me, part of the appeal of horror is to be disreputable. If something is trying to be too classy, I just don't find that enjoyable.

Speaking of disreputable, I think the next movie would fall in that category. It's 1987's Hellraiser, of course, about an evil puzzle box that when you manipulate it, it calls a bunch of demons. For us in the further regions of experience. Demons to some, angels to others.

I think that's right. I am not a big fan of the Hellraiser. I think those fancy production design, it all looks a little two-party city for me. I don't know. It's not my kink. So yeah, I think I'm going to pass on that.

You don't like the leather? No. You don't like the chains?

No, I don't like the leather and the chains and the drapey like, moomoo stuff and the headgear and the makeup. No, it just looks like cabaret plus Party City plus Busted, so no.

We're not going to move Hellraiser a lot. 1988's Child's Play. Hi, I'm Jackie.

You want to play? Yeah, this is so great. Again, I'm going to get up here. Where this franchise goes in terms of queer representation, in terms of non-binary, and I think they really set the tone for what queer horror can be today. I think without the entire child's play franchise, I think queer would be missing something. For me, I think for those reasons alone, and because it's Chucky's, kids love dressing up as Chucky's. For those reasons, to see a little kid with a plastic knife waddling down the street with that wig and the overalls. I mean, stuff of my nightmares.

Child's Play is in some ways, it feels such a franchise. It is because to me, a franchise is also not just the movies. It's the dolls, it's the posters It's the appearances. I don't even know all the things that Chucky has his hand in, but it feels bigger than what's on the screen.

We're going into the '90s now. Sorry to leave the '80s, just the best decade. Candyman.

Be my victim.

I think the original Candyman is really fantastic, but I'm not sure if the subsequent films really stand up to the original so much. I just don't see as something canonical that we would want to include in part of this list.

Okay, we'll move it along. Scream. There are certain rules that one must abide by in order to successfully survive a horror movie. For instance, number one. This modern slasher franchise is the one that most reminds people of the tropes of a horror movie. You watch horror movies in part because, particularly with franchises, you know they're predictable. And this franchise wears all of that on its sleeve. And there's something that is entertaining and enjoyable about that. The characters that have lasted across six movies now, I think people have great affection for Neff Campbell and Courtney Cox. Oh, they definitely do. Sure. I don't dislike the Scream movies. The Arquette, who's first name I cannot recall.

No, David Arquette. No, I think actually, Anne, if the measure was the best movies, Scream would be a long. I think that the quality control is not bad for Scream. I just think it's a bit basic. I think it's not... I don't...

Take it then, personally.

I think to a certain horror person, Scream gets on our nerves because there's this idea that horror never had humor. It's probably, let's listen to this conversation. So many of these movies are hilarious. If it's calling card, is it added this humor, and it's not that funny, then what is it?

Eric?

I don't find them funny. I find the Wink Wink stuff too much ghost-based. Again, looks like something you'd buy at Walgreens. I just don't- You can buy it at Walgreens. That's true. So I am not going to advocate for that.

Wow. Okay. I predict this will be controversial with some of our listeners, but we set a set of rules, and we are going to abide by them. I'm surprised Scream is not moving forward. What about the next one? Final Destination Destination, which viewed in 2000? But what if it was our time? What if we were not meant to get off that plane? It was in the gutter for a while, and then this year's movie, Bloodlines, really brought it back.

I think that's why I would say it for me. Final Destination: Bloodlines. It was really one of the funniest horror movies I've seen in a while. That first scene atop that building and just to the very end where there's this train that comes out of nowhere. I mean, it's so funny and so accomplished in the way that it marries horror and comedy. If I think four bloodlines alone, I would say absolutely.

These are the movies in which I regularly find myself, even while watching them alone, screaming out loud at something ridiculous that just happened in a wonderful way. So we'll move it ahead. Next one. Oh, God, these. Saw. I want to play a game.

Here's what happens. I mean, it's the most franchisey of franchises, at least unless you count some of those in the '80s. I would say you have to have Saw on the list.

Yeah, and in some way, it feels like a sister or a cousin to Final Destination, so I would say yeah.

Okay. Paranormal Activity, 2007. I feel it breathing on me.

I feel good about Paranormal Activity. I think for me, that's top 10 material, I think.

I agree, especially because we didn't put Blair Wish on here. We got to have one of those two.

Insidious, the next series that James Wants or dealt with. I can still hear that voice.

Just because we can't have both Insidious and the Conjuring, I would say I would air on the side of the Conjuring.

You got the very wise. It's very wise of you. Oh, thank you.

I think that's right. I really wanted Patrick Wilson to come back to Broadway. I'm sorry. I saw him in Oklahoma, and he needs to come back and sing for us.

You guys are the perfect parents to talk about both those things. The VHS series. Do you see anything? Emily.

I like this as a franchise. I'm a big fan of the anthology film, twilight Zone Outer Limits, that whole world. And so I think to include an anthology franchise in here, I think would be cool.

2013's The Conjuring. You know what she did? What? She possessed the mother to kill the child.

She visits Carol every night. That's what the bruise marks are.

She's feeding off of her. I'm, just for the sake of time, going to say this one. It has to be on there. Okay. The third series that James Juan has worked on. 2013's The Purge.

Any and all crime, including murder, will be legal for 12 continuous-I'm just going to say no. Okay. I'm going to say no. Great.

A Quiet Place The last one bored me.

I would say no.

I'm going to say not yet.

Guys, I love how we're getting really, really vicious here right at the end. And then 2018's Terrifier. He thinks what he's doing is funny because he's laughing.

But I know it's not funny because they're all get the hell away from me.

One of the most out of nowhere surprising horror success stories in the past many years. These are extremely low budget movies, extremely violent and gory, and Terrifier 2 and Terrifier 3 have made a ton of money at the American box office.

I love the idea of Damian Lyon, the director of these films, being on this list, because I do think Art the Clown has become a villain, and I think he's the newest villain that I think you could put somewhere in the lineage of Freddy and Jason. I don't think it for our purposes, I wouldn't put it on the list, but I cannot wait for more terrifier films to come out. I have a strong stomach, but for these movies, I get a little queezy when I watch these.

I agree with everything Eric's on.

All right. Jason, Eric, we just went through so many franchises, but somehow we've narrowed it down to 15 that we've agreed We're going to move forward to the debate that we're about to have about what the 10 greatest horror movie franchises of all time are. I'm going to read those 15 very quickly. The Universal Monsters franchise, the Night of the Living Dead series, The Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, Alien, Friday the 13th, The Evil Dead series, Nightmare on Elm Street, Child's Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, VHS, and The Conjuring Films. This is a slightly perverse list, but gather your thoughts. We are going to take a break, and when we come back, the three of us are going to pick our definitive list that no one will argue with of top 10 horror movie franchises.

Hi, this is Ashley. I live in San Francisco with my boyfriend.

We would love to officially share my New York Times subscription with separate logins. We both love cooking, love being in the kitchen, but I'm a 30-minute and under-efficient dinner girly. I want a sheep pan meal. He is very elaborate.

He wants to get into the storytelling.

I want to be able to save my easy meals and check off the ones that I've completed. And I think him having his own profile would be great.

Ashley, we heard you. Introducing the New York Times family subscription.

You get your own login and Mr..

Elaborate gets his.

Plus, room for two others.

Find out more at nytimes. Com/family.

Jason and Eric, we've just gone through every single important horror movie franchise, at least according to me and the two of you and the producers of the show. We've narrowed it down to a slim list of 15. We're going to make some cuts so that at the end of this, we have a nice, clean, perfect, respectable list of the 10 best horror movie franchises ever, parentheses, according to us. How are we going to pair this down? We are going to go around the room, and each of us is going to stump for one franchise that they believe absolutely needs to be on here, and you're also going to have your vote for what you think should be removed. You should make a convincing argument. Jason, we'll start with you.

One that I think needs to be on is Friday the 13th.

The counselors weren't paying any attention. They were making love while that young boy drowned. His name was Jason.

What I think franchises, I think Friday the 13th, it has all the qualities, but it has the classic villain. Who happens to share my name? So I'm a little biased. Okay. And also, I like franchises that are silly and go to a lot of crazy places. Jason went to space. Jason went to hell. Jason met Freddie.

He went to Manhattan. He went to Manhattan.

Manhattan, of all places. I think you can't have a list of franchises being taken seriously and not have Friday the 13th. I would vote for that one.

Okay. Do you want to say now which one you think should go?

I'll say The Exorcist. Sorry, Gilbert. It's a great movie. It's not a great franchise.

You know what? I'm a peacemaker. Let's get rid of the exorcist. All right. We can do this guy. We can do this.

Got a little tense in here.

Eric.

Yes, I would say we need to keep child's play. I think you have a villain that is hilarious and also creepy. I think there's a through line through the films. I think it does touch on some queer aspects, which I personally like. I think for those reasons, I think it needs to stay.

If you know what's Good for you. You are going to love, honor, and obey. I wouldn't marry you if you had the buddy of GI Cho. Hey, Raggedy Ann, you looked in the mirror lately. Now's not the time to get picky.

I vouched for this, or I advocated for this, but I would actually take off the VHS films. I love an anthology series, but I think maybe that is one that could go. Also, we have at least one other found footage franchise here, so I would take VHS off.

Jason.

I agree.

Okay, let's take it off. So much agreement here. I am going to advocate for A Nightmare on Elm Street.

What's wrong, Joey? Feeling tongue-tied?

The first movie, one of my all-time favorite horror movies, I think of the major slashers. As we think about them, Jason Voorheys from the Friday the 13th movies, Myers from the Halloween movies, maybe even Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Masser movies. Freddy Kruger is the only one in personality. He is the only one that has a little verb, a little pop. And that's important, I think, if you are going to be a character that holds a franchise over multiple movies. You were right, Jason. He gets silly. He becomes a comedic character. I think that comedy and horror coexist very easily, and I know you agree.

Oh, I mean, I agree that a comedy and horror are two sides of the same coin. The structure of a suspense sequence that builds tension and leads to a scream is analogous to the structure of a joke which builds tension and then leads to a laugh. I think you see that in Nightmare on Elm Street, which it melds them very well. Then I think you also just have the visual palate. For a big blockbuster franchise. It's quite surreal. Yeah, I agree. I think your point about personality is a good one that you didn't see that before.

I also think there's something about these movies. You use the right word surreal, particularly in the first movie. The fact that you are operating with dream logic for much of these movies just gives it a different flavor than all of these other ones, which ostensibly, other than the supernatural ones, exist in the real world, and you just have a bunch of people getting murdered in very ornate ways.

No, it means you can do things visually, you can't otherwise. I think you see the arms through the walls. A lot of the vocabulary, the cinematic vocabulary of horror comes from Nightmare, which comes from Polansky, which has the look. You can watch it with a sound out, and it's great. I think it's tremendously influential, too.

Okay. That is the one that I absolutely think should stay on. I would remove Saw. I recently watched the first one, which is fine, but I think the conceits of these films over 10 movies is just a bit more than I care to experience. I don't think they iterates on the original idea in particularly interesting ways. I think the Final Destination franchise does this better, although they're two very different things. I say take out Saw.

I'm fine with that.

Jason is rubbing his It feels wrong.

Yeah, why? It feels wrong. Well, because we're not here talking about a horror movie. We're here talking about horror movie franchises. As you pointed out before, every year, you could expect a Saw movie like you could expect Halloween. While it's around the Saw movie was as significant as the Saw movies. You're right, there is a consistency. A lot of this podcast I've been going on about how much I admire movies that zag. But if we're honest, The reason that most of these horror franchises have sequel after sequel is to give people more of the same. The Saw movies did that more effectively than anything past the '80s classic slasher movies.

You know what? Jason, you're right. Let's add Saw back on.

My favorite three words.

We are going to take Alien off.

I'm fine with that.

Okay? I'm fine with that. You want to argue? This is what happens. Alien Ali, it's God.

Also, I think Alien is more science fiction, and if we're going to be sticklers about definitions, to me, it's a little more of the alien creature type movie. To me, yes, there are horror elements. Yes, there are crossovers of the two. But to me, that's the maybe top 10 science fiction franchise.

Everyone says the original Alien is a haunted house story in space, but it's still in space.

It's still in space.

Okay, so we're going to go back to you, Eric, and you are going to suggest one franchise that absolutely needs stay on and one that should fall off.

I'm going to advocate for Paranormal Activity to stay on the list.

Oh, okay. I'm going to scratch myself.

Did you hear that? Yeah.

It's okay. It's okay. It's all right. It is a found footage film. The first one is really good. I also love that it came out of nowhere to become this really big hit and has spawned subsequent films, and now a stage show, which is- Is that true? It's at the Chicago Shakespeare Theater right now. It's coming to DC later on. I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's good or not, but they have managed to transfer this found footage story, which I don't know how you do that on stage, but I'm very curious to see that. Theater keeps coming up, Jason. I don't know what's going on here, but anything that has a show attached to it, I say, You know what? Let's keep that on the list.

And these are the films that popularized, in my mind, at least, someone getting dragged off by an off-screen presence. Whenever I think about that happening, these are the movies that I think about.

Yeah, agreed. I guess I'm struggling with this because I love the Universal Monsters, but I almost wonder if that's not quite a franchise. I used to stay up and watch- This is ageism. I was just about to say, I used to stay up for the 11: 30 PM late Night movie with my grandmother, who loved the Universal Monsters. Channel 43, back when they showed movies. Where was this? This was in Cleveland, Ohio.

Cleveland, right. Got it.

I have such warm memories of being with my grandmother and watching these films, so it pains me to take that off, but I'm not sure if It's a franchise. I get the spirit of it. They're great movies, but is it a franchise for our purposes? I say no.

Okay, let's strike it off. Jason, we're coming back to you. One for, one against.

One for, Evil Dead.

Groovy.

The first movie is a great horror movie. The second movie, you were talking about horror and comedy. There's no movie, period, that's captured in live-action, the Looney tunes better than the Evil Dead sequel. There's a sequence people can look it up on YouTube of the main character, Ash, played by Bruce Campbell, who is a brilliant actor in these movies, where his hand gets a possessed, and he fights with his hand. It's just a tremendous bit of physical comedy that's still wrapped up. It's a possessed hand and it still is a horror movie. Then it keeps going. It shifted again into an evil adventure. Then you've got the reboots, the two, which I think are more gnarly horror films. I don't think there's a bad Evil Dead movie.

Also a musical.

Also a musical. Also musical. And a TV show.

And a TV show. This is the last time I invite theater people on this podcast.

Evil Dead has to be on the list. Okay. To take off the list, God, this is This is going to be very hard. Oh, no, it's not. I would say Texas Chainsaw Massaker, which is one of my favorite movies of all time. But I have a theory that Texas Chainsaw and Halloween, the originals are so great and they're so distinct that they haunt the rest of the franchise. Texas Chainsaw Massaker, all the rest of them pale in comparison. I would say the most interesting thing about Texas Chainsaw Massaker is it's the movie that's beloved by filmmakers that they've had the hardest time trying to capture what makes it great. The first movie that I saw that got close is another franchise that I would have put on this list, but we didn't get there, which is Ty West's trilogy. X really is an homage of Texas Chainsaw and captures the gnarly, gritty, gross, backwards element of it. Anyways- That's X, Pearl, and Maxine.

Correct.

I would say, if you want to get to a slightly artier franchise that that would make it. But I say take off Texas Chainsaw.

Okay, that was unexpected, but I respect your decision. Okay, so I think we're officially at 10 on the list now, but I'm going to use my pick anyway to Stump for The Conjuring With Us. The Crooked Man stepped forth and rang the Crooked Bell, and thus his crooked soul- This just seems like for people of a certain generation, maybe no one of that generation is in this room. Their franchise, it is the modern Ghost Demon franchise. It just feels like it's undeniable. It would be sick and perverse to to leave them off, which would be fine given the topic that we are discussing here. I know.

Maybe appropriate. I know. Maybe we're being too responsible.

The first two movies, The Conjuring & Conjuring 2, I think are quite good, the first one in particular. But when we're talking about franchises, you have these characters. They're moving out in and out of all of these movies. You have four Conjuring films, all starring Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga as just the cutest little spirit exercising couple. You There are two films in the Nun series. There are three Annabelle films. There are some people that consider the Curse of La Yedona to be part of the series. It has become this universe in and of itself. It just feels like the modern definition of a franchise to me. We haven't hit the Conjuring TV series yet. I don't know anyone dressing up as Ed and Lorraine Warren for Halloween. Maybe I'll do that this year, but this is the one that I would keep on. For sure. Okay, guys, we have our 10, but Obviously, we cannot end this show without talking about our last two franchises. It is insane that we have saved Halloween until the very end here. What's the other one? Halloween? The Night of the Living Dead series. The Halloween series. I think when most people think of horror movie franchises, this is one of the ones that automatically comes to mind.

The first is, again, a horror classic, and then you go in some weird directions with some weird sequels.

Halloween I think, is such a perfect movie. But I also would make the case for Halloween 3, Season of the Witcher, which has nothing to do with the Michael Myers world at all. It's about basically these Jack o'lantern masks, hoods that you put on, and there's mind control. I think it is really one of the underrated films in the Halloween series, at least by non-nerds. Jason, I think you made the point that a franchise that can go outside of its world and be something else, shapeshift. I think this is the perfect example of that. I think that that's why for me, Halloween, I think, is maybe one of my favorite franchises.

I'm so glad Eric brought up this movie because when I heard that you guys wanted to be a part of our franchise, I rewatched Season of the Witcher because I think it's the key turning point in the whole history of the franchise. Because John Carbun didn't want to make a sequel. They twisted around. He made this. He made the sequel, which was basically Halloween 2, took up right when Halloween 1 ended, made the same movie. He said, I'll come back for Halloween 3, but only if we don't have Michael Myers. This has never been done before, and here's the key part, and after. Because people came to see this. They'd go to see Michael Myers. The only time you see Michael Myers in this movie is when one of the characters turns the TV set on and they're playing Halloween, and everyone was like, That's the movie I want to see. Now, I agree with everything Eric said. I think Season 2, which is a tremendously underrated movie, really interesting many counts, some really trippy imagery in it. But the lesson that the industry took from the failure of Season of the Witcher is we're never going to let them do this again.

We got to have the music, we got to have the Michael Myers ask, and we'll let you mess around a little bit at the edges, but it ruined the franchise. I agree with all of Eric's premise, but I come to the opposite conclusion, which is because of the season of The Witcher, the rest of the Halloween franchise became less interesting to me. Where let's compare it to Night of the Living Dead.

When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk here.

This is the rare movie where the sequel is better or more ambitious, certainly, than the original Dawn of the Dead is a tremendous movie. I think the movie is varied in quality, but I think they really set a high bar in terms of ambition and created not just one character, but a whole character that was taken off in a million other directions. I would say if I had to choose the Night of Living Dead franchise, I would pick Over Halloween, which seems crazy.

But the one other thing- We're not picking. They're both on the list. They're both on the list? Okay. Let's review the final list. There have been a lot of lists. This is the final list. I'm going to read it out, and you can tell me how you feel about all these together. Night of the Living Dead, Halloween, Friday the 13th, The Evil Dead, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Child's Play, Final Destination, Saw, Paranormal Activity, and The Conjuring. These are our 10. Are these our 10?

Yeah, it's a good list. Yeah?

I feel good about it.

Do you think everyone's going to get angry about this list? Oh, yeah, definitely.

Absolutely.

I should hope so. Okay.

The producers are look, look, angry.

All right. We have come up with a definitive, look at the definition of the word, Definitive List of the top 10 horror movie franchises of all time. Tweet it, Jason Zitiman.

Or threads.

Listeners, those of you who are not mad at the movies we left off, you can find both our master list and our top 10 in the show notes so you can basically recreate this debate with your friends. We're going to take another break, and when we return, as we do every week, we're going to play a little game. Welcome back. Welcome to our hollow Scream Spook Hack Boo Scare.

Oh, man. Oh, man. It's a regular Elvira over here. Here we got the I've got Eric, Peepinberg, and Jason Ziniman here.

They both look slightly uncomfortable because we're about to play a game. I've got three rounds for you, gentlemen. Please put your hands on your buzzers and let us begin. Round one, which we are calling a Nightmare on Film Street. Let's see how much you know about the films on our list. What fictional Illinois town is the main setting of the Halloween franchise? Jason.

Haddenfield.

That is correct. Haddenfield. Next question. Chucky, the murderous doll at the center of the child's play franchise, is a possessed version of what doll manufactured by the PlayPals Toy Factory? Eric. Good guy doll. Good guy. That is correct. The first Paranormal Activity movie's 94 million worldwide box office made it the most profitable movie of all time, displacing what other found footage horror movie? Eric. The Blair witch Project? The Blair witch Project. This guy's quick on the draw. I know. How Any principal shooting locations from Friday the 13th, part 8, Jason Takes Manhattan, or actually in Manhattan? Jason.

It's got to be at least one because he comes... One.

One. That is correct. The time square sequence.

The subway sequence. Yeah, right. Exactly.

Okay. That was the end of round one. Round two is called the Kills Have Eyes.

You guys should be ashamed of yourself. You really should. I mean, this is Jimmy Fallon looking down his nose out there. It was a mistake to have a comedy person on this episode.

I'm going to give you three ways that characters meet their ends in a franchise, and you tell me the name of the franchise. So again, we'll give you three ways that people die, Tell me the name of the franchise. Stabbed through the throat with an arrow, head frozen with liquor, nitrogen, and then shattered, swung around in a sleeping bag and smashed into a tree. Jason.

That is Friday the 13th.

That is correct. All of those kills happened in the Friday the 13th franchise. Next. Turned into a cockroach and squished inside a roach motel, drowned in a waterbed, sliced by an animatronic claw hand. Eric.

Nightmare on Elm Street?

Correct. A Nightmare on Elm Street. This is close. Next. Strangled with a yo-yo. Beaten to death with a yardstick choked on a doll arm. Jason. Child's Play? Child's Play. Absolutely right. Final question in this round. Burned alive inside a tanning bed, flattened by a huge pain of glass crushed by logs falling off the back of a truck on the highway. Eric. Final destination.

Final destination.

This is really close. You guys are neck and neck here. We're at our final round. It's called Child's Play. Some of these horror franchises contain some iconic, extremely creepy lines of dialog. As we all know, there's nothing scarier than a creepy little kid. We found a little kid to creepily read some iconic horror movie dialog for us. Please listen to the quote, wait until the quote is over, and then tell me what movie it's from.

I ate his liver with some fava beans in a nice Auntie.

Jason. Silence of the Lambs. The Silence of the Lambs. Correct. Next quote.

They're coming to get you, Barbara.

Jason.

Nigh of the Living Dead.

Nigh of the Living Dead. That is correct. Next quote.

All right, you primitive screwheads, listen up. You see this?

This is my boomstick. Really good line reading. Yeah, really.

You guys, you're both stuck. That is from Army of darkness, the third Evil Dead film. Yeah, Boomstick. It should have tipped you off there.

I was distracted by how good a performance that was.

Okay. Next clue.

A boy's best friend is his mother.

Jason.

Unless this is a trick, I'm going to say psycho.

Psycho. That is correct. That is a quote from Norman Bates. Our final clue in this category and in the game overall. It's alive. Jason.

Frankenstein.

That is correct. Frankenstein.

Also, It's Alive, the move of a great Larry Cohen movie.

That's not the one about the killer yogurt, is it?

No, that's about the killer baby.

Oh, right. Okay. My mistake. Okay. Our producers are telling us that we have a winner, and that winner is Jason. Congratulations. You hold it out right at the end. Amazing. Jason, I have something to give you. It's a prize. This is the ninth one of these that we have awarded. It is a cheap, tiny plastic trophy with my face on it. We call it the Gilby. Oh my God. And it is now yours.

I'm so honored. I'm flattered. I'm humbled. Thank you. Thank you, Gilbert.

That is... Those are all the emotions that that cheap trophy are supposed to look at.

It really feels like you get her from a gumball machine and then throw it away.

It's a secret where we get it from. Jason, Eric, thank you both for joining this fantastic conversation about great horror movie franchises.

Great to be here. My pleasure.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Thank you.

Wait, before we go, if you had to pick a number one, what would it be?

I'm going to go with Evil Dead.

Eric?

I'm going to say Child's Plate.

For me, Nightmare Elm Street, all the way. One, two, Freddie's Coming to you.

This episode was produced by Alex Baron, who's also our quiz master, with help from Kate Lepresti, Luke Van der Plug, and Tina Antalini.

We had production assistance from Dahlia Haddad. Haddad. It was edited by Wendy Dore and engineered by Daniel Ramirez. Rosalie Baron read all those scary lines from horror movies in our game. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alishiba Itup, and Diane Wong. Special thanks to Paula Schumann. Thanks for listening. See you next week.