Transcript of Inside the U.S. Operation to Oust Venezuela’s President

From the New York Times, I'm Natalie Kytrowaf. This is a special episode of The Daily. It began with early morning strikes across Caracas. And ended with a dramatic capture of Venezuela's leader, Nicolas Maduro.

Maduro was handcuffed, blindfold, put on a US warship, and brought to the US to face drug charges.

Good night. Happy New Year. Today, my colleague Eric Schmidt tells the story of how the operation unfolded and what comes next. It's Sunday, January fourth. Eric, Happy New Year. Thank you for being here for this special Sunday episode.

Thank you.

I want to just start with an observation, which is that even though we have been bracing for something like this, what we've just witnessed may be the most audacious exercise of American power in a generation. President Trump has captured and removed a sitting foreign leader. Nothing close to this has happened in something like 25 years. It is truly historic.

That's absolutely true. Here we have been watching this pressure campaign build on President Maduro at Venezuela for the last several months. But to go in with special operations forces in the dead of night and seize the leader of a country is really extraordinary. You have to go back to 1989 when the US military carried out an operation, a similar operation to go after then the President of Panama, Manuel Noriega. Much larger force went in on the ground and ended up spending quite a bit of time there because It wasn't an in and out operation like this was. You're right, this really is, in your words, audacious.

I want to talk about the operation that led to this, an operation they called Absolute Resolve. Talk to me about the planning that went into and the execution of this operation. What do we know?

The planning for this operation really goes back several months to the summertime. This is when the administration is first considering what they called phase one, which would have been to strike boats trafficking what they believe were narcotics going to the United States in the Caribbean and later the Eastern Pacific. But there was also a phase two that was less well known. But through our reporting, revealed that the administration was considering a follow-on phase that would use the Army's Delta Force to conduct land strikes and ultimately an operation to oust President Maduro of Venezuela. About a month later, in August, the CIA infiltrated clandestine team of officers into Venezuela to start getting a beat on Maduro. Their job was really interesting. It was as spies, they They had to keep a very low profile. But they were trying to figure out what the spy agencies call their pattern of life. How does Maduro move around? Where does he eat every day? What pets does he have? You want to get an idea of the daily routine that your target, your potential target has. Here these operatives are on the ground monitoring stealthily the movements and the activities of Maduro.

Now, in addition to that, the CIA was able to basically get an informant on the inside, inside the government, who could basically relay Maduro's location, where he was going at any given moment. That allowed the CIA and the military to also conduct stealth drone flights overhead. If he were to travel somewhere in the country, they could keep an eye on him.

It's remarkable what you're saying. The CIA not only had operatives on the ground monitoring Maduro, they also had someone inside who was feeding them information, a snitch, who was telling them what they needed to know to potentially carry this out.

That's right, Natalie. I had one senior US official tell me that they felt so confident because basically they had, in his words, they had Maduro wired. Now, that doesn't mean he actually was wearing a wire, but it meant in this case that they felt they knew his location pretty much any time. One of the hardest part, of course, is trying to find a target. Once you can find a target, then you can start building the operation, the military operation, of how you go in and capture him. But once they had these spies in place and an informant in particular that was close to Maduro, some of the hardest part was past them, and then they could really work on the difficult task of assembling the military might that would do the job.

Okay, so take me to the operation itself. How did it unfold once they had all these pieces in place?

Remember, this all starts as the United States is carrying out special forces or striking these boats, first in the Caribbean, with missile strikes. This is all aimed at, the administration says, at what they call the narco-terrorism. That is, they've accused Maduro being the head of essentially a drug cartel and equating him as a terrorist as if you would equate him with, say, being a member of Al Qaeda or the Islamic State. They're building this force initially around that. The next stage is just a few weeks ago, they start targeting oil tankers. These are oil tankers that are either empty tankers coming into Venezuela to pick up oil or tankers leaving Venezuela. Oil is a crucial component of Venezuela's economy. The administration is trying to basically choke off the of President Maduro and increase the pressure on him to leave.

Yes. We talked to our colleague, Anatoly, about this recently. The idea then, as you said, was to try to squeeze the economy, to weaken Maduro by putting a stranglehold on his main source of income.

That's right.

The question, though, at that point, Eric, was, was the military part of this on hold or was that still happening in the background?

No, the military operation and the option so that it's available to President Trump is still building. They're still flowing troops in. And what we got as a tipper just in the last couple of weeks were some very specialized planes are starting to come in. These are planes that are designed to jam aircraft. They're designed to basically shut off electricity in a major city. They're used for surveillance. They're used to bring in special operations forces. You wouldn't bring this military hardware in if you weren't planning to use it. That's what analysts were telling me. So it became a matter just in the last 10 days or so, not if the United States was going to carry out a major military operation against Venezuela. And the President, of course, had threatened to carry out land strikes there. But when? And so the clock was really starting to tick. As you have amassed this giant force, you can't keep it there forever. And as Christmas approached late last week, we started to see indications that some type of operation might be imminent. But it turned out there was a horrible stretch of weather in Venezuela, windy and rainy, unseasonably bad weather, which would have been very bad for operations involving aircraft and helicopters.

Totally. So the window for an opportunity for the military to carry out this operation was extended. We were on pins and needles for several days, not knowing if this was actually going to go forward. The President still had to give his final approval for this, of course. And then late Friday night here in Washington, early in the morning in Venezuela, my colleagues woke me up a little before 2: 00 AM on Saturday morning with news that there had been explosions in and around the Caracas area. And soon they were seeing on social media these great fireballs emerging from the darkness. And the city, this is a major city, of course, and it looked like the city was under attack. Then there was more video that showed helicopters flying in the dead of night. You could see their outlines. Clearly, the profile of American Special Operations helicopters. We saw more footage from social media, what appeared to be helicopter strikes against two and three major Venezuelan military bases. It was very dramatic scenes coming from Venezuela, but here in Washington, utter silence from the administration. This would have been typical if indeed there was an operation ongoing because the President and his top aides would not want to comment on anything.

While there were military operations underway, American forces were at risk. And until they were out of harm's way, this is typical, these things, they're not going to comment. So we had a very long, several hours, early Saturday morning until the President, just after 4: 00 AM here in Washington, announced on Truth Social that the US had conducted what he called a successful large scale strike against Venezuela and its leader, Nicolas Maduro, who Along with his wife, the President said, had been captured and flown out of the country. Then President said, Stay tuned. President Trump, that is, said, Stay tuned. We're going to have a news conference at 11. That's in seven hours or so.

Right. He says to everyone, basically, tune in at 11, and of course, we all do. At this point, as you said, we know Maduro has been removed from his post in this incredibly, apparently dramatic arrest, but we don't know exactly how this happened. Let's start there. What did we learn in the presser about how this all went down?

Sure. The President teased a little bit of this before his press conference in an interview with Fox and Friends. Was this Delta Force, guys? Or he talked about the Commando operation going so well.

They're the most highly trained soldiers in the world. There's nobody that has their talent because it's talent. It's not just bravery. It's bravery. You have to have the bravery, but it's talent.

All the preparation of this operation, even the Special Operations Forces, had even built a mock house.

They actually built a house which was identical to the one they went into with all the safes and all the steel all over the place.

A Maduro house somewhere in the United States. This is standard. This happened in the Bin Laden raid, again, in 2011, where they build basically a facsimile model of the actual house or target building they're going to a strike, and they just practice it until they can basically do it in their sleep. Wow. So Trump teases a little bit of this in the Fox interview.

Okay, thank you very much. This is big stuff.

Then sometime shortly after 11: 00, he comes out at his press conference at his resort in Marlago, Florida. And behind him are several of his cabinet members, including Defense Secretary, Hegset, and Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, and General Dan Cain, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Late last night, And early today, at my direction, the United States armed forces conducted an extraordinary military operation in the capital of Venezuela.

And President goes on to describe this operation and what had happened. It was dark.

The lights of Caracas were largely turned off due to a certain expertise that we have. It was dark and it was deadly.

Then General Cain, who's a four-star Air Force general, and almost important, his previous job was as the military as a liaison to the Central Intelligence Agency.

This mission was meticulously planned.

General King came up and gave a very detailed but somewhat dispassionate account of this mission.

At 10: 46 PM Eastern Time last night, the President ordered the United States military to move forward with this mission. Over the course of the night, aircraft began launching from 20 different bases on land and sea across the Western hemisphere. In total, more than 150 aircraft, bombers, fighters, intelligence, reconnaissance, surveillance, rotary, rotary wing were in the air last night.

Talking about how more than 150 aircraft launched from 20 bases in the region.

As the force began to approach Caracas, the joint air component began dismantling and disabling the air defense systems in Venezuela, employing weapons to ensure the safe passage of the helicopters into to the target area.

Then carried out this strike that basically cleared a pathway for these Delta Force commandos that are being whisked on special operations helicopters to this safe house in Caracas, where they know, because of the spies, where Maduro is hauled up with his wife.

As the helicopter force ingressed towards the objective at low level, we arrived at Maduro's compound at 01: 01 AM Eastern Standard Time or 02: 00 AM Caracas Local Time. The apprehension force descend into Maduro's compound.

He goes on to talk in various detail.

On arrival into the target area, the helicopters came under fire, and they replied with that fire with overwhelming force in self-defense.

The commandos reach and basically have to fight through some of the security forces.

Maduro and his wife, both indicted, gave up and were taken into custody by the Department of Justice, assisted by our incredible US military with professionalism and precision.

But the Maduro and his wife basically give up without much of a fight.

After securing the indicted persons, the force began to prep for departure. Helicopters were called in to exfiltrate- And so then he talks a little bit, the general does, about how then they have to basically go back out again with a new set of helicopters that whisk them away, coming under fire, and that they come back out over the water and fly back ultimately out of the ship, the Iwo Jima, in an operation that together takes a little over 2 hours and 20 minutes or so, and that Maduro and his wife are brought to this ship and then let it be transported to New York. This operation is a testament to the dedication and unwavering commitment to justice and our resolve to hold accountable those who threaten peace and stability.

Can you just explain how you can have the military carry out what they're calling a criminal law enforcement operation? How do you send 150 planes in these Delta Commando forces, to arrest someone?

Well, in technical terms, he basically said, The Justice Department asked for our help. They couldn't go in there on their own and do this. General Caine made it very clear that there were law enforcement agents with the commandos. They were basically there serving an arrest warrant. They were there to arrest President Maduro. They're not there to kill him like they did with Osama bin Laden in 2011. This is how they're going to try and justify this. They're basically saying, We are coming after you because there's an indictment in the United States against you, Nicholas Maduro, for implicating him in drug trafficking and all sorts of other crimes related to that. We're coming after you as a matter of legal principle. That's at least how they're framing it. Again, it's a military operation, but done in the service of a law enforcement operation that will continue to play out.

They're saying this This is not actually an act of war, or at least that's the subtext, right?

That's right. We're not at war with Venezuela. This is a very specific mission. They're not out to destroy bridges and dams and take down and power grids and everything else that we saw in many of the strikes in the Middle East and Southwest Asia. They're there for one particular reason. They want to go in, grab Maduro, and get out.

So just a very well-funded, expensive arrest. West.

There you go. That's a good way of putting it.

We'll be right back. I want to turn to what happens now in Venezuela. What did they say about that? What comes next?

Well, this may have been the most stunning part of this Pro press conference.

We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition. We don't want to be involved with having somebody else get in, and we have the same situation that we had for the last long period of years. We are going to run the country.

The President basically says, We're going to run the country. You can almost hear a gasp in the audience. It's like, Run the country.

The US is going to run Venezuela. So who's in power right now?

Well, we're going to be running it with a group, and we're going to make sure it's run properly. We're going to rebuild the oil infrastructure, which will cost billions of dollars. It'll be paid for by the oil companies directly.

Yeah, we're going to go in there. First thing we're going to do is going to bring in the oil companies. Venezuela sits on some of the largest oil reserves in the world.

We're going to get the oil flowing the way it should be, as you know, it was just a minor flow. It was actually a minor flow for what they had.

We're going to improve and build upon their oil infrastructure. So oil companies can sell oil, and the proceeds, some of that will benefit the Venezuelan people, but a lot of it will benefit us, meaning American oil companies. But there are many, many questions from reporters in the audience. It's like, Well, okay, but who's actually going to govern?

It's largely going to be for a period of time, the people that are standing right behind me, we're going to be running it.

And Trump looks behind him. He says, Well, these guys will, meaning like Hegset and Rubio. And everybody goes, What? It's like, Well, okay, he'll work with the current vice president.

So Marco is working on that directly. He just had a conversation with her, and she's essentially willing to do what we think is necessary to make Venezuela great again. Very simple.

Basically, she's got to either go along with things or we're going to come back in.

We're there now. We're ready to go again if we have to. We're going to run the country right.

He's going to keep this very sizable American force in the region, not necessarily in Venezuela itself, because the troops have left after this operation. But he holds that out as a threat that if the Venezuelan leaders that are being installed don't play ball, that the American forces may have to come back in again and straighten things out.

What he seemed to be saying, if I understood his comments in the press conference clearly, was the US is not actually going to install officials to directly run the government in Venezuela. He's suggesting that the vice President of Venezuela, who was just sworn in as President, he says, is willing to work with us, meaning the US government.

Yes, work with the United States government. But there's this implicit threat that if she doesn't or if she starts to stray, the United States might have to come back. There's a threat, maybe we have to get somebody else to do our bidding there. That, yes, there'll be Venezuelans running Venezuela, but with a very strong hand from Washington, and these people behind me are going to make sure it's done right. A lot of people just weren't expecting this.

Right. Certainly not from a President that campaigned against the Forever Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example, and made a political brand for himself of not being that interventionist political leader that got us into these foreign entanglements that so many people grew tired of.

That's right. Or if he did intervene, like he did with the Iranian nuclear strikes, it was a one and done. You're in and out quickly, and then you move on to the next crisis. This one, he's basically saying, We're going to own this thing, and we're going to be there for some time, which is Very different than what he's been talking about up till now.

Just explain what his rationale is for that, Eric. What is he saying that the US gets out of this?

I think, number one, it's oil. That seemed to be his underlying message was, we're not talking about restoring democracy or getting rid of a dictator. Okay, that's nice, too. But the real bottom line here is this is good for America. We're going to be benefiting from the oil riches of this country. Mr. President, why is running a country in South America, America first? That's how the question was, how is this supporting of America first?

Well, I think it is because we want to surround ourselves with good neighbors. We want to surround ourselves with stability.

And his retort was, Well, that is America first. This is in America's interest to have a strong presence in the Western hemisphere, which, of course, is something he's now promoting very aggressively, and to have a much stronger American hand on the tiller, if you will, of the Venezuelan political system and its economy.

There were these scenes we saw today out of Florida of the Venezuelan diaspora celebrating this moment. Obviously, in the eyes of many Venezuelans, this means the end of the line for an authoritarian leader who was accused of stealing an election, who has been ruling with a repressive iron fist for years now. What has Trump said about what Venezuela stands to gain from this?

Well, I think he'll make the argument that he's getting rid of this horrible dictator he calls a narco-terrorist, and that now the United States is going to come in, particularly in an enhanced its economy, that the Venezuelan economy, which has been just under siege for many, many years, will flourish, and the Venezuelan people will flourish as well. I think he's trying to make the point that, yes, this is good for the United States, but it's also good for your average Venezuelan to get rid of this dictator who's really done bad things to your economy.

Of course, the reality on the ground in Venezuela is a lot more complicated. There are still many members of Maduro's regime who remain in the country. The military is very strong there. Do we have any sense of how this will actually play out, how that matches up against what Trump is promising?

Well, certainly a whole slew of Democratic critics today in response to the President's announcement said, Absolutely not. He has no idea what he's doing. He's leading the United States down a very dangerous path where he doesn't have a real plan for the future here. If the plan that he's articulated is unrealistic, and it's sending all the wrong signals around the world, not only in Latin America, But to the United States's main rivals in Russia and China, and just basically saying, you can go into any old country and topple the dictator just because you say it's good for the region and good for your country. This has got global global implications as well.

Eric, what are the implications of the US military being used as a tool for President Trump in this way so explicitly?

Well, and I think all you had to do is listen to the President, and as he He picked off some of the military accomplishments that he's achieved, not just in this administration, but going back to his first term. He feels very confident now in deploying the military, both at home and abroad. I think what he now feels is unbridled in his use of the military, not as a last resort, but as something he reaches for almost instinctively now. The president has always, I think, been reluctant to deploy force because he worries about getting dragged into conflicts. In his mind, if he can carry out these operations, they're tremendously successful, he gets big headlines, and maybe even it gets at least temporary solutions to problems, he's going to be very gratified by that, and he's going to go back and use that tool again and again. Certainly on the part of his advisors, he'll just point to these string of successes and say, Well, we'll just do one more like this. Look how well the last one turned out.

For Trump, these may be surgical strikes in his mind, not long wars. But you're saying there are profound risks to him normalizing this military action.

Yes, exactly. Normalizing the military action, both home and abroad. Then as we see here, he's extending that. This isn't just a one and done because he's now saying we're going to run this country for some unforeseen period, and he's going to use the military to back that up. Now we're starting to creep into nation building again. The very thing that he campaigned against twice now. He's not thinking about it in the way that previous presidents, so President Clinton or President Bush or President Obama even might have talked about it, trying to enhance democratic values and norms around the country or to raise up his standard of living in various countries. The President sees this, certainly in this the way he talked about Venezuela, as being good for the United States. It's very clear-cut. These are economic gains that the United States is going to make, and they're going to profit off of this investment in Venezuela. He thinks of that in his businessman's terms. I think that's the danger, is that you've gone in, you've replaced this leader. He now thinks it's going to be fairly easy, just as you might install a new board of directors or new CEO, and the country is going to suddenly prosper under the US supervision.

It's so much more complicated than that.

Eric, thank you so much.

Thank you, Natalie.

On Saturday, Delce Rodriguez, the interim President of Venezuela, delivered a defiant address in which she condemned the Trump administration and called Maduro the the only true President of the country. But despite her combative tone, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said the US would judge the new leadership of Venezuela by their actions. And late Saturday night, a helicopter carrying Nicolas Maduro arrived in Brooklyn, where the deposed leader was taken into the Metropolitan Detention Center. When a police officer announced over a loudspeaker that Maduro had been brought into the facility, a crowd of demonstrators waiting outside began to cheer. Today's episode was produced by Rochelle Banjaja, Alexandra Lee-Jung, and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by Maria Byrne and Paige Cawet. Contains music by Pat McCusker and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. For The Daily. I'm Natalie Kittrowaf. See you tomorrow.