Transcript of At the Super Bowl, It’s Nice Guy vs. Underdog

Michael. Hey. Welcome. Take a seat. Happy to have you here.

This is not a chair I'm used to sitting in, the one opposite- I know.

I'm the host now. The host. Welcome to the Sunday Daily. I'm Natalie Kittrowaf, which you know. I do. I'm saying that for the people at home. I do know this. You are Michael Barbaro. You're Michael Barbaro. That's right. You may know that I'm a sports fan. You know that, right? Mm-hmm. I like of them, but football is my absolute favorite sport. It's something I've loved since I was little. Do you know what my favorite team is?

I don't.

You don't? No. Which team do you like? Even though I incessantly talk about it all the time, you just Don't listen. Okay, the Philadelphia Eagles. Wow. Okay, that's a surprise. The Philadelphia Eagles. I am obsessed with the Philadelphia Eagles. I think about it constantly. Football is just a really big part of my life. You are not a big football fan.

That's a true statement.

I have never heard you talk with passion about football.

No, you haven't. My passions lie elsewhere.

Okay, so today is Sunday, February eighth. I assume you're aware that the Super Bowl is tonight, correct? I am.

Okay. Seahawks versus the Patriots.

Oh, good. I was going to pop quiz you on that. Yeah, sorry.

I will say- Sorry to disappoint you with my knowledge.

I'm happy. We're not starting from zero. Let me ask, are you planning to watch this game?

I wasn't, but I have been invited to a kid-friendly football-watching party with the asterisk that is being advertised as also a K-pop demon hunter sing along.

Oh, okay. I see.

The game is going to be on, and it's going to be in the background for me. Okay.

I want to try to change your relationship to this game on Sunday to make it less about K-pop demon hunters and more about football. About the football. What I know about you is that you love stories. Am I right about that?

Yes, that's where my passion lies.

I knew it. Okay, so I have this idea because I know you're not the only person with a tepid relationship to the game on Sunday to get you to care by telling you stories.

Speaking my language.

To use your love language, which is daily episodes, we all know.

This is smart.

We want to tell you two stories today about the two teams that are involved in the game, the Patriots and the Seahawks. To help me tell those stories, I reached out to two writers from The Athletic, which is a sports publication owned by the Times Company. Chad Graff writes about the Pats. Now, I'm teaching you slang. Yes, knowing the Patriots. Patriots, love it. Michael Sean Dugar covers the Seahawks. I am feeling pretty confident that we can get you, Michael Barbar, tomorrow to care about this game, to engage with it, to actually enjoy it. What do you think?

I think it's entirely possible. You will achieve these ends.

Some skepticism.

No, I can get there completely.

Okay, good. Well, we're going to check in on that at the end of the show.

I look forward to that. You should hit the theme music now.

That's what we're doing. Okay. Chad Graff, thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

You cover the Patriots for the Athletic. How long have you been covering football?

I've been covering football for a decade.

Perfect. Okay, we came to the right place then because I have been on the hunt for a story about the Patriots, a character, an event that could make somebody who does not care about the Super Bowl care about the Super Bowl. I've looked at their quarterback. I have thought about Patriots history. I've looked at a lot of places, and I think the guy that we should talk about today, the main character of this game on that side of it for me is the Patriot's head coach.

I'm proud to be your coach, fellows.

Mike Vrabel.

Let's have some fun. Let's communicate, celebrate together. What you guys have done is you believe and you trusted in the identity. My sunglasses are too big. Does that mean my face lost weight? Can I I can't wait to tell people I get to coach the Patriots. I get to coach- It's always about the team. Team on three. One, two, three.

What do you think of that? Just to start out.

I like where your head's at. I think what's interesting here is Mike Vrabel has absolutely remade not just the culture of the Patriots, but the personality. He has remade who the Patriots are and how we perceive them.

Yes. I would say somehow that is what I am experiencing. The thing about Mike Vrabel is that I think I like him, which I am shocked about because I think much of America do not like the Patriots as a general rule. But there's something about this guy that has me questioning that. I want to talk about how that shift may have happened for me and maybe for other people. Just to set the scene, and I know this may be a lot, but I want to ask you to summarize the story of the the Patriots over the last 25 years or so.

Okay. To appreciate this flip that the Patriots have made with Mike Vrabel, I think you need to go all the way back to the start with Bill Belichick. I'm just telling you now, seven games isn't going to win anything in this league. It's just not enough. It's not anywhere near enough. We got a long way to go. For the last 25 years, the Patriots essentially were run by one person, Bill Belichick. Look, fellows, I am sick of this Okay. Every time-What Bill Belichick did was incredible in terms of the success that he brought to this team. I can't stand it. Run it again. Hold up and run it again, braided. Shut up, Reven. For Patriots fans, he was unbelievable. Six Super Bulls brought them so much success over two different dynasties. They won so much. But the national perception for the last 25 years has essentially been that the Patriots are the evil Empire run by this gruff, no-nonsense person where nothing was fun and nothing was enjoyable. It's good to win.

We got a long way to go.

Yeah, he's like Darth Vader.

Darth Vader, just in a cut off hoodie on the sideline, arms crossed, scowling, looking miserable until or unless the Patriots won the Super Bowl. Can't relax, Sheriff. Can't relax.

I mean, they went about winning in such a cold way. It was like a machine was running when were winning. It didn't feel good when they won.

There's still a lot of things we got to clean up. Five wins isn't going to be enough this year. It's not going to be anywhere near enough. So we still got a long way to go. Under Bill Belichick, the Patriots were a machine. That's exactly what they were. Those Patriots were only interested in success when it came to winning that final game, hoisting the Lombardi Trophy as Super Bowl champions.

I will say, as a person who is not from New England, it was a big part of the reason why the franchise franchise was so easy to hate. I mean, it wasn't just that they were so annoyingly, unstoppable for so long, but that the guy that was, in many ways, defining the team's brand, defining what you thought of when you thought of the Patriots, was Bill Belichick, the most gruff, unrelatable person that you could imagine being the face of your team.

Well, and sports are supposed to be fun. Half the reason that you get into it and you watch these big games is because it's fun. And instead of sports being fun, it was only winning is fun. Nothing else mattered. Nothing else was to be celebrated. They would go in the locker room after these wins in October and November and December. Belichick would stand at the front of the room and say, in front of everybody, to Tom braided. This throw that you missed right here, the quarterback at Foxborough High School up the road could make this one. And so it was total tough love. There was not a big celebration of what you just accomplished or, Oh, man, how fun was that game? Immediately It was, if you don't improve, if you don't turn things around, we are not going to get where we want to go, which is the Super Bowl.

Right. So you're saying it wasn't just external. Internally, inside the locker room, the way that Belichick related to his players, it was all about tough love.

It was tough love, and for a long time, that was perfect. I don't want to scratch over this part of it. The Patriots won so many games because Belichick was the perfect coach in that moment for that team. Tom braided was at his best with a chip on his shoulder, and Belichick took a shovel to that. Settle down, now, buddy. Step into the throw, okay? You're going to run right in the heads. Throw to Kevin out here? I got drilled when I threw it. And that worked. It was so good for them for so long. Until it wasn't. But then, braided started to feel like, All right, man, I've won MVPs in Super Bowl. Get off me. To the point where in Katie's last season, the team's off to this great start, Tom, Tom, how's it going? What's going on? And what does Tom braided say? I'm the most miserable Bowl 8-0 quarterback in the NFL. And so that's a little window into how everybody was feeling toward the end of the Bill Belichick era.

Okay, so Belichick is all over braided despite the fact that he's arguably the best quarterback ever. I mean, he couldn't beat the Eagles's backup quarterback in the Super Bowl, but he's still probably the goat. I can understand how, given Brady's record, that coaching style would wear him down. It obviously did wear him down.

Totally. And to that end, braided eventually said, I'm out of here. I loved my time with New England. I can't do this anymore. And he went to Tampa Bay where they've got this fun coach, and it was like a fun atmosphere. And what happened? And when the Super Bowl ended, the ball would be on the hands of Tom braided. He went on to win a Super Bowl, and I think that proved this way that Bill Belichick did. It's not the only way to have success.

Right. And at the same time, things change in New England for the worse, right? The Patriots start to struggle, their record gets worse and worse, and we know that eventually the team decides to move on.

So they move on from Bill Belichick after the 2023 season. Robert Kraft, the owner, pivots to his handpicked successor, which is Gerard Mayo. He's this former player of Belichick, grew up under Belichick. Everything about him screamed Belichick, and it does not work.

May rolling, throwing back.

Down the field, intercepted. It goes horrendously bad. They win four names. And that is when the owner, Robert Kraft, makes this frankly bold and startling decision and says, I know who the right guy is.

It's my great honor to introduce you all to the next head coach of the New England Patriots, Mike Vrabel.

It's Mike Vrabel.

I'm excited, energetic, positive, looking to build and get to work.

Thank you. And what do we know about Vrabel when he steps up to this position?

So Mike Vrabel, he comes from northeast Ohio, stays there, plays at Ohio State, goes on to the NFL. At some point in the NFL, in the middle of his career, he joins the Patriots, and who's the coach of the Patriots? Bill Belichick.

Oh, wow. He actually played for Belichick.

He played for Belichick and won three Super Bowl's with Bill Belichick. He caught a TD passes. But he was also a physical, intimidating linebacker. Mike Vrabel, the Patriot sack leader. When his playing career is over and he determines Bermans, I want to be a coach, Bill Belichick naturally offers him a chance. Hey, Mike Vrabel, come work for me, and I will teach you how to be a coach. But Mike Vrabel looks at it and says, I played for Bill Belichick. I saw what that's like. Now I want to go elsewhere and see if there's another way that better fits my personality.

And what does that look like for him?

So this is where things get fun. That's some fun.

Enjoy it.

Mike Vrabel does not do things like Bill Belichick. At the end of every game where Bill Belichick would tell his team, You didn't do a good enough job, even though we won.

You suck, basically.

Kind of, yeah, even though they were winning. Mike Vrabel sprints after every game, and you might see this after the Super Bowl, and it might look a little weird. He sprints as fast as he can so that he can be the first one back to the Patriots' locker room. He stands there outside the locker room so that he can give a hug and a handshake to every single player walking off.

Oh, my God.

I'm happy for you.

He's doing chest bumps, and they're jumping up and down, and he's got secret handshakes with different guys. This is the fun part of the Patriots. After a recent play off win that helped get the Patriots to this Super Bowl, he goes in for this big hog with one of their top players, Milton Williams.

And Milton Williams pops you in the lip.

And the facemask of Milton Williams smacks into his nose, cuts up his lip, and he's bleeding out of his lip after the hug. And look how happy Mike Fravely is. And what does he do? He goes over and taps it and shows it to the player and gives him another big hug.

He came over there, he knocked the living shit out of him.

You see what I'm willing to do for you I'm afraid to spill a little bloody.

But I want to tell you this.

This is like a full contact guy. He's willing to get in the Scrum. He's hugging so hard that he's literally bleeding. I have to ask, Did Bill Belichick ever hug another human being on camera, ever in his entire career? I'm not joking. I actually am wondering. Do we know?

He was not hugging after a week five win over Kansas City the way that Mike Vrabel is. With Mike Vrabel, the Patriots have celebrated every step along this magical journey that has them now in the Super Bowl today. And I don't want to give you the impression that this guy is just all hugs and handshakes either. You get him out on the field on the sidelines, and his coaching chops have actually been really impressive, too. Around the league, everybody considers him a game management savant, which is part of the reason that the Patriots are going to the Super Bowl. And of course, that's another reason why his players love him.

So I want to ask you about something that you raised at the beginning of this conversation, which is just the way in which Vrabel may be changing America's relationship with the Patriots. I think a lot of people, maybe by default, are resistant to rooting for the Patriots to win yet another Super Bowl. They have won so many of them. And yet, if I'm honest, I find it very, and I want to choose my words carefully here, compelling. It's compelling that this version of them has made it to this point. They aren't the joyless mechanical patriots that they once were. It seems like this new iteration of them, this new, and I can't believe I'm saying this, more lovable iteration of them. That seems to come down to the influence of Mike Vrabel.

Look, if people want to look at this and say, The Patriots have won more than anybody. Screw these guys. I get it. All of that makes sense. But this is so different than the Patriots you would think of in your head. This team does not have the big stars. The Patriots have a lot of guys that most people just couldn't recognize. And that little ragtag bunch, because of Mike Vrabel and because of so many things, is now here in the Super Bowl today.

It's New England's version of Ted Lasso, I have to say. It's impossible to not think of this guy as someone who even though it pains me, you actually might want to root for. So you've made me more pats curious than I've ever been, Chad.

It's this brand that has won so much and has been so hateable for so long, suddenly being, dare we say, fun.

I love it. Chad, thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

We're going to take a short break, and when we come back, What Everybody Loves, a classic underdog story. We'll be right back. I'm here now with Michael Sean Dugard. Mike, thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Okay. No one can argue with rooting for the underdog, and my feeling is there may be no bigger underdog in the NFL than the quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks, Sam Darnold. Throw, throw, an in-zone.

Darnold throws. Darnold, nine of nine on the night. Touchdown, Seahawks.

Darnold on the move. Darnold throws, caught. Darnold, nine of nine on theTouchdown, Seahaw. Darnal on the move. Darnal throws, and he's got a man. Touchdown. Yeah. Sam is without question the biggest underdog in here because everyone has seen him fail.

Yeah, just too many mistakes on my end.

That's the story. He's the guy getting off the mat. That's just a terrible throw by Sam Darnold. We saw him all get knocked to the mat.

Sam Darnold been struggling the last two weeks.

Five interceptions in last two games.

Let's talk about how Sam Darnold, this perennial underdog, this person who has been vulnerable in front of us, in front of America for so many years now, ended up in the Super Bowl, and why. Talk to me about the beginning of his career.

The thing about Sam's story arc is that there legitimately is an arc. Sam was the quarterback of USC. It's a pretty premier program, particularly- This is the University of Southern California, big college program, right? Yeah. On the West Coast, about as big as you're going to get. Darnled on the roll out, wide open, Burnet.

Easy. Touchdown, USC.

The NFL draft order works in reverse of final landing. So if you win the Super Bowl, you get the last pick in the first round. And if you have the worst record in the NFL in the regular season, you get the first pick. So Sam was so good in college that his reward was going to one of the worst teams in the NFL. And that year, it was the New York Jets.

The New York Jets select Sam Darnold, quarterback.

It's this idea like, you are going to save us.

They were looking for a guy who could change this franchise, and Sam Darnold would do it, Trey.

And we should just say that the Jets are obviously a big market team. There are a lot of Jets fans in New York and New Jersey. So this would be a lot of pressure on any quarterback playing for the Jets.

And it's really just unfair in general, because Sam is one of 22 guys who are on the field at any given moment. He could be the best thing since slice bread, but he's not going to save you guys if all those other guys aren't doing their part as well. So there's already this unfair expectation on any quarterback.

And we know those other guys weren't doing their part, right? Coaching, offense, defense, none of it was really working for the Jets. Who does he have?

What is he playing with? Look at his coach. Look at his coach. You want him coaching you? No. Okay. And on top of that, in the NFL, it's a TV show, right? So what are they going to do? Put the best programs on television to get the most eyeballs. What does that mean? That means the New York Jets are going to be on national TV, whether they're good or not. So if you're stinking it up, when everybody's got home from work and is watching you on Monday night football.

And it's going to be a pick six for Quandre Diggs on the very first play of Sam Darnold's debut. Just a huge amount of pressure and visibility bearing down and not a ton of support for Sam Darnold. So how did the season play out?

It was very bad. Sam threw a bunch of interceptions. He threw four interceptions against the New England Patriots, and a camera captured him saying that he was seeing ghosts.

Seeing ghosts.

Yeah, I remember this moment when he said that he was definitely seeming very overwhelmed in that game, and it sounds like he was saying straight up, I don't know what I am seeing. I can't handle this defense.

He just was not seeing the field very well. And again, if that happened at one o'clock Eastern on a Sunday, maybe people don't care. But there was a million cameras for that game because it was nationally televised. Now you're the seeing Ghost guy.

Maybe it's close to Halloween. Maybe he saw some spirits fly around, maybe he watched Poltergeist.

He also missed games his second year in the league because he had Mono. He was an adult that had Mono, which came with its own set of jokes.

The old kissing disease. I knew he was a young quarterback, but jeez.

So not only is he playing very badly, not only is the team playing very badly, but Sam is getting this reputation as a joke.

So, yes, Sam played very poorly. The team stunk. People got fired. Everyone got cleaned out. And eventually, when a new regime came in, Sam got cleaned out.

Coming in as a Carolina Panther, I'm very excited. Very excited for this opportunity.

And there were people who are like, oh, well, Sam just got free from the shackles of the gangrene.

The gangrene being the Jets. What a horrible nickname they have.

Yes. Being the New York Jets. Yeah.

Okay. And then in Carolina, does anything go better there?

Initially. But the problem with Sam is in the NFL, when you're these young quarterbacks, you spend so much time deciding whether you're good or you're not good right away. So I remember he had a really good, I believe, like a month long stretch in Carolina. But so when Sam had that run in Carolina, though, it already felt like he was an NFL, Cinderella in the sense that, okay, yeah, you're playing well now, but the clock will strike 12 on you eventually, and you will go back to being Sam Darnold.

The joke quarterback of the Jets that football watchers already knew, you mean?

The Sam Darnold of the New York Jets became the default in everyone's mind.

With the Patriots defense once again, leaving Sam Darnold looking like he's never played football before, the jokes of him seeing Ghost return to Twitter. But here's a real deal-So basically what you're saying, Mike, is that Sam earned this reputation and this brand at the Jets that he couldn't shake, which was as somebody who was an underperformer. And this sense that he was going to underperform that followed him to Carolina.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he played well in Carolina for a stretch, and then it basically just winded down. Carolina was just such a bad organization, fired coaches, players not liking the setup, that it just wasn't a place where Sam could thrive. It was very clear that even if you were very high on Sam, he needed to be in a place with good infrastructure. And that's how he became this NFL journeyman after that. He leaves Carolina and then signs with San Francisco.

Playing quarterback is a special privilege.

The 49ers, a team that at the time was very good, had great infrastructure. They already had their franchise quarterback in Brock Purdy. They had just traded for- But just to say- It was probably the first time- That's Sam coming on to be a backup then. Yes. I think that's a notable pivot point in Sam's career as well in this story because it's the first time someone signed Sam and didn't expect him to save them. Not to be Superman or the Black Panther. You just pick whatever guy is tasked with saving the city, world, town, whatever. Sam didn't need to be that in San Francisco.

It's also just a fall from grace, though, no? For a former starter to become a backup?

Yeah, absolutely. Sam did have that fall, but it's exactly what he needed, I would say, is to go be somewhere he was not asked to save everybody. And then when he got to Minnesota, he didn't need that either.

Great opportunity, great organization. Just ready to get to work, man, talking to- If I'm counting right, this is his fourth team that he's been on since being drafted, which is amazing to imagine if you've started your professional career and immediately in four different companies, not totally comfortable.

How does it go for him in Minnesota?

Minnesota was very interesting because although they did not sign him to be the savior, by August, they needed him to be because they drafted a quarterback out of Michigan, JJ McCarthy, the Minnesota Vikings did. Jj blows his knee out in August. And now it's, Uh-oh, Sam Can you save us? And then he did.

Darnal airs it out. Jefferson has it. Darnal throws on the run.

Two Addison to be bringing. Darnal looking for his fifth countdown pass of the day. Addison gets his third.

This is his fourth team now. He's been savior guy, he's been backup learn guy, and now he's more equipped when they say, Hey, JJ just tore his knee up. Can you go run this team? And then Sam was the best version of Picked up.

Darnold in zone. Jefferson, countdown.

Can I ask Mike, at this point, after the season in Minnesota, where he does well, after all of these years of not doing well, what are people in the league thinking about him? Is there a suspicion that this might just be like a flash in the pan, a fluke? Can you trust it? A vibe.

People in the NFL, fans, media, coaches, executives, We're really bad at factoring in new information. Our past evaluations just stick in our minds so much. I saw Sam see ghosts in New York, so that's Sam. And that's just a really hard thing for people to shake. There were some people who just could not see past New York, and there were some people who were.

Like the Seahawks, right? I mean, this is the exception, is the team that you cover.

So the Seahawks saw Sam Darnold as a guy who had been written off too early by the rest of the NFL. So when they were in need of a quarterback, they felt comfortable signing him.

And what was the vibe in Seattle around that? Because I have to say, I think I, along with many people, was like, Wait, what? This is the washed up former Jets' quarterback? Really?

Yeah. So I wasn't as that far on the spectrum, but I definitely was like, This isn't going to work. I just actually turned out to be very, very, very wrong about that.

I I love when people admit to being wrong, especially on the air. Why did you turn out to be wrong about that?

Quarterbacks generally need three things to be successful. They need good skill players around them, the guys who run and catch the ball. They need five big guys who can protect them, and they need a good guy on the headset calling the plays. The Seahawks checked all three boxes relatively quickly. The Seahawks nailed all that in one offseason. And because of that, was able to be much closer to the Minnesota Sam than the New York Jets Sam.

The Seahawks soar to Super Bowl 60. Describe the journey it took to get here, Sam. I haven't really thought about that much, Sam, to be honest with you.

Obviously, there seems to have been a vibe shift around Sam Darnold, from the feeling that I think a lot of people had that was skepticism, let's say, about him, to now where you really do see a belief in this guy. I think a sense among a lot of us that is like, I can't believe it, but I believe in him.

Yeah. I mean, Sam earned that. Sam earned that within this season. He's showing us each week, each performance that this is Sam. Sports fans really love resonating with their own version of the little engine that could. Everyone loves that. People find it because that's what they want. They want a Sam Darnal. And if I know you've been knocked down, I just feel stronger rooting for you because you are more like me. Even though you can run and jump and do all these other things that are extraordinary that I can't do. The one thing I resonate with is getting knocked down. And because we've all seen Sam do that, he is the hero of our story for the Super Bowl.

No, and it's completely irresistible. Mike, thank you so much.

No, no. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

After the break, we're going to check back in with Michael Barbaro, and we'll find out if we did it, if we got him invested in this Super Bowl. Heyo. Michael, he's back. And he looks engaged.

I have listened to your little episode.

Okay, wow. I heard you listen. I'm breaking the fourth wall.

Yeah, we sit across from each other.

We do, and I heard you listening to it, and I heard enjoyment. I enjoyed it a lot. Well, let me just ask you the question first. What is your impression of these two teams? I want to start. Let's do it one by one.

Well, if you'll permit me to, I think the virtue is the parallels between these two characters, the underdog and the nice guy. Okay, say more. In Sam Darnold, you have someone who needed to go on this journey. He needed to be seasoned. He needed time. He needed a second chance, or I guess a third chance.

Or a fourth or a fifth chance.

And then he gets there. In the case of Rable, he needed to to leave the paths. He's a player under Bill Belichick. He needed to leave the Pats and learn how to coach not in the shadow of this mean-spirited boss. Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick. He had to do that in order to become himself. Just in the same way, if Darnold had stayed where he was having all this trouble, then he would not be in the Super Bowl. If Rable had stayed at the Pats under Belichick, he would not now be in the Super Bowl, and he wouldn't be the joyful lip blood-spurting hero of this story. Those are, I think, the parallels. I mean, these are people who took some real chances in their career without which they wouldn't be where they are this Sunday on this field.

You're saying both of them had to leave their home base in order to go on this journey that led them to this point? Yeah. What do you take from that?

I think in so many cases of great careers, there are great acts of humility, humiliation, and courage to leave the place you call home, to believe in yourself enough that you can step way outside your comfort zone and try something new. That seems to be something these two characters here share.

Okay. Now, I think the most important question, who are you rooting for? Who won? Who won the Michael Barbaro sweepstakes?

It's hard not to root above all for Arnold.

Because?

Because he's known the low as still lows. There's just nothing like public humiliation. That's a very, very dark place to be. And so the idea that that player gets the ring.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

Okay, we were going to get you a jersey, but they didn't come in time. So we don't have a jersey for you. But we do have two apples that I I got in. One is red and one is green. I could use an apple. You get the green one now. Yeah, I like the green. You know why, right?

Because it's the Jets.

Seahawks. My God. We taught you nothing.

But the great green machine, the green machine was the Jets.

I mean, there's a reason why you said it, but it's fine. It's fine. Michael, I'm going to text you on Sunday. I'm going to make sure you're watching the game. I will be. I'm going to ask what you think.

I think you It's been a beautiful episode.

Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. This episode was produced by Alex Baron with help from Tina Antalini. It was edited by Wendy Dore, an engineered by Sophia Landman. Our production manager is Franny Khar Toth. This episode contains original music by Dan Powell, Diane Wong, Alicia Bet-étoupe, Cori Schreppel, Marion Lozano, and Sophia Landman. And if you want even more Super Bowl coverage, check out our episode from last Sunday, in which we talk about the upcoming halftime show featuring Bad Bunny. That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie Kittrowff. See you tomorrow. All.

Half-time.