Transcript of My Mother’s Lies | 2. My Mom, Susan New

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There's an old Greek myth you might know. The one where a woman named Pandora is given a tightly sealed jar by Zeus and told told never to open it. All Pandora must do is keep it safe and leave well enough alone. But curiosity gets the better of her. She opens the jar and lets loose all sorts of evil—sickness, envy, death. The contents wreak havoc across the world, leaving misery in their wake. Pandora didn't open the jar out of malice Or stupidity. She was curious. She simply wanted to know the truth, however uncomfortable. Well, the story I'm going to tell you across the course of this series is in part the story of a man who opened his own version of Pandora's box. Not a jar sealed by the gods, but a dusty box taken from his garage. Inside it are notepads, letters, and dog-eared photographs that belong to his mother. But these are not sentimental memories. This is a vault of clues and secrets. And just like Pandora, once the man opened the box, there was no going back. It's early November 2025, just before Thanksgiving. Kentucky has been gripped by a cold front. Just outside of Mayfield, in a brightly lit hotel lobby, our producer Alice Arnold is meeting Ray McCord.

Hi. Nice to meet you. As you heard last time, Alice is no stranger to the Jessica Curran murder. Nor Susan Galbraith's role in solving it. Alice has been looking into this story for several years now. But today is the first time she's speaking with Ray face to face. You see, Ray knows a lot about the real Susan. He's Susan Galbraith's son, her only child. At the time of Susan's sudden death in 2018, Ray and his mom weren't talking much. They didn't exactly leave things on good terms. So after he inherited a bunch of her belongings, Ray stashed the boxes in his garage. One of those boxes included Susan's research on Jessica Curran's murder. In 2021, Ray was contacted by producers from Blink, the British TV company, who wanted to make a film about his mom. Their plan was to tell the heroic story of how a citizen sleuth with the help of an international journalist, had solved a gruesome murder in Mayfield, Kentucky. The timing felt right for Ray to finally confront some of his feelings towards his mother. So Ray went into the garage and opened the box. That was 4 years ago. And Alice, now working with us, was one of the TV producers who first got Ray digging into his mother's story.

Since then, they've both been on a journey of discovery. But today, they're finally going over it all in person.

Should we rifle through your stuff and I'll— come show me what we've got.

Together, Alice and Ray go through his mother's files, transcripts of police interviews, official court documents, the autopsy report. They pause on some old photographs Susan took of each of the members of the Mayfield Police Department. You see, she was a keen photographer.

How does she have these?

Because she was working with all of them.

But what, she asked them for pictures?

Probably just what she knew, like, just to get it, just to have stuff documented. Look, there's her at the investigating the scene.

He's a good— Along with those case files, Ray also inherited a stack of Susan's notebooks. Inside, mixed in with grocery lists and doodles, are her notes about her own investigation into Jessica Curran's murder. I always loved her handwriting too.

I thought she had pretty handwriting.

She does. Yeah.

And she's meticulous. For all their problems, Ray had always believed that against all odds, his mom actually helped a family get justice for the horrendous murder of their daughter. Lots of people believe that story. As we said in the last episode, the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation even gave Susan an Outstanding Citizen Award. So this is the—

this is the award. That's from Greg Stumbo, the attorney.

Attorney General at the time. I was very proud of my mom for everything that she had done and the award that she received. It was all— it was, it was pretty cool.

How do you feel about this award now?

It's obviously tainted.

Tainted is one word for it. That award was his mother's crowning achievement, a rare moment of triumph in the life of a woman looking for purpose But when Ray finally started digging through his mom's case file, that image of his mom and her triumph crumbled.

Well, it's because I went through everything, you know. I, like, I had all this stuff on the, on the walls and like the yarn that was going from this to that. As I started looking into her stuff and started realizing like this wasn't the case, I was learning in real time the lies. There was a lot of lies.

He saw how easily facts shifted to suit Susan's theories. At first, what seemed like inaccuracies or errors began to look more intentional. Was this outright deception or self-delusion on an epic scale? Either way, Ray realized the public had the wrong idea about his mother. Susan Galbraith was no hero. She hadn't been hell-bent to find Jessica's killer. She wasn't driven to give Jessica's grieving parents peace. She had ulterior motives. She wanted it.

She wanted fame. She was just money, always want, you know, just money, money, money.

These revelations set Ray on a journey to discover the truth. He lives with the fear that his mother helped put away the wrong man and in doing so kept the Currans from getting justice for Jessica's murder. It's something he now feels compelled to make right.

If it's wrong, I should fix it.

You know, or try to write it.

From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, you're listening to My Mother's Lies. This is episode 2, My Mom Susan. Ray is 50 years old now, and he's still got a lot of conflicting feelings about his childhood. When he looks back at family photos, sometimes he smiles, other times not so much. They might have ended up estranged, but on the whole, Ray remembers his mom fondly. She had a lot of dreams, but like many of us, lacked the follow-through.

My mom was so all over the place. She wanted to be a photographer, she wanted to be a jack of all trades but a master of none. She had an idea for all kinds of stuff, but, you know, nothing ever panned out.

Susan was born in Chicago in 1960, the middle child of 9. By the time she was 15, she had given birth to Ray. Ray's father was even younger, but in spite of this, took full custody when Susan up and left for Kentucky.

My dad was 14, my mom was 15. So you can see kind of like where the gap could come with our relationship, you know, how difficult it could have been for a young woman to mother, you know, a child when she's a child herself.

Ray was raised with a lot of help from his paternal grandmother. As he grew up, his dad struggled with alcohol and would leave Ray alone for days with no food at home. During these early years, Ray had no contact with Susan. His father made sure of it.

My dad had told me she was dead, so I didn't even know she existed. And then when I was 9, she used to come up and visit me at school, and I didn't even know who she was. And so through that, we built a relationship. I found out she was my mother, and then I ended up running away with her.

After years of neglect by his dad, Ray finally went to live with Susan in Mayfield, Kentucky. By that time, she was in her mid-20s and ready to take care of him.

Was she a good mom? Yeah.

I mean, she did better than my dad. She fell short on some things, but I'm not going to knock her as a parent at this point.

Susan paid attention to him, cared for him, bought him candy and presents, and made sure there was food in the house. It was a big change from his life in Chicago.

I was growing up in the streets of Chicago. Mayfield was like heaven. Everything was just green and nice, and people were friendly, and they were waving at, you know, everybody waved at everybody, and that was just so foreign.

Unlike at his dad's place, Susan's was filled with noise and people and fun. She loved music. In the box of her things, Ray found a notebook filled with page after page of her favorite karaoke tunes.

Her and her sisters had their own line dance that they created.

And so usually if a couple of them got together and music came on, mostly like the song "We Are Family," yeah, they would like get up and dance to it, you know, and do their little line dance.

One thing Ray doesn't remember his mom ever having was a job. She mostly supported him on her disability checks. Susan had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She had some good days and some bad, but on the days she went in for her disability assessment, she made sure she looked like she was really struggling.

So my mom went with my cousin Jennifer to go be evaluated for her disability— a crazy check, she called it. So she goes in there with her hair disheveled, like She put on a show for them to get her check. She had her shirt buttoned all wrong, different colored socks. She would cry in the— like, in the interview.

And it was a fraud. But looking back, Ray feels like his mom knew what she had to do to get that check and did it to provide for her family. She was good at getting what she needed.

Everything was a hustle with her. It was always a hustle.

Everything. At the time of Jessica's murder in 2000, Susan's marriage was breaking up, and she was feeling unmoored and unmotivated. But this was the moment everything changed. Standing before Jessica Curran's body at the middle school, it seems Susan found the sense of purpose she was seeking, although it would be another 4 years before she acted on it. As we mentioned last time, Susan is the only Mayfield citizen to appear on the police log for that day.

What do you know about your mom being at the crime scene and being in the crime scene log? That shouldn't have happened.

How did that happen? What compelled her to physically step into the crime scene is still something of a mystery. Frankly, even trying to figure out what exactly brought her there is up for debate. There's 4 different stories.

My aunt has a story that my mom told her, my Aunt Judy. And then my Aunt Pat has another story that my mom told her. I have a story that my mom told me, and then she's got a story that she told the news people.

I've got a restaurant story here.

The restaurant story. So this would have been in the morning, right? The restaurant don't even serve breakfast.

Why do you think there are so many stories?

Well, because, I mean, there's only—

logically, it's a lie. Was your mom prone to lying?

My mom used to tell me, I'm going to tell you something, but if you tell anybody, I'll tell them you're a liar. She would call me a liar if I told somebody something that she told me.

Susan told conflicting versions over the years depending on whom she was speaking to. As her story evolved, the truth became more elusive. So over the course of this podcast, Using the contents of Ray's boxes, Susan's emails, letters, and her interview recordings, we're going to try to unpack her story. We're going to try to figure out how a housewife who didn't hold a job, who had no experience or investigative training, and was in the habit of lying, ended up central to the state's prosecution to convict a man for Jessica's murder.

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I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart, and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad-free by subscribing to the Binge podcast channel. What podcast, Corinne? Tell us. Oh, it's called Blink: Jake Handel's Story. I created it about a man named Jake who I met, who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising, and even some supernatural elements. So this is definitely—

It is such an amazing story. It's very unique. And you did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good.

Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen, and subscribers to The Binge will get the entire season ad-free. Plus, you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on The Binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com.

Let's go back to the start, the place where it all began to go wrong, the crime scene. Evidence collection is something you have to get right immediately, or it can hamper your investigation permanently. In this case, as we told you last time, the evidence was bungled from the start. But let's see exactly how it unfolded. How confusion turned to chaos, and how the void was created for Susan Galbraith to step into. Now, lawyer Miranda Hellman studied the police crime scene video from that day. She immediately identified a number of items that do not appear in the official evidence log.

And so when I'm looking around the video, I'm seeing bottles everywhere. I'm seeing cigarette butts everywhere. I'm seeing trash everywhere. I'm seeing pieces of fabric kind of spread all around, not just really, you know, located on her body itself. And none of that is in evidence.

Items like hair clumps, a plastic bottle apparently smelling of gasoline, part of a black braided belt and buckle could all be vital for DNA testing and forensic analysis. Whose hair? Whose belt? What type of gas, not to mention fingerprints. Yet much of this evidence never made it to the police station. And the items that did, well, many were mishandled, mislabeled, or misfiled. For instance, evidence boxes were logged incorrectly. And as a result, unrelated rape swabs were found in the Curran evidence boxes, a critical contamination error.

You know, if I handed this case file to my grandma and said, grandma, go investigate a murder, I feel like she would collect the items of evidence on the body. She's played Clue before. And she would know to at least start with the body. And if you see anything that looks like it could be a murder weapon or involved in— you know, here we're talking about a fire— we should collect those things too.

With the crime scene and evidence now contaminated, it would prove nearly impossible to rely on any forensics. From this point on, the Jessica Curran investigation would come down to other police work—conducting interviews, identifying witnesses, and generating leads. A job lead detective Tim Fortner was better equipped for. In the months following the murder, local police went house to house talking to Jessica's friends and family. Establishing her movements that day, which, over time, led them to two suspects. In the last episode, you heard how the indictment against them was thrown out because of an inadvertent discovery violation on the part of law enforcement. But there's something we didn't tell you— that one of those two original suspects allegedly confessed to Jessica's murder. Those two suspects were Carlo Saxton, Jessica's new boyfriend, better known locally as Lolo. The second was the father of her child, Jeremy Adams. Both men were reported to be prone to violence. Lolo was said to be the jealous type, possessive even. They were also both rumored to be involved in drug circles. But after sifting through the local gossip and hearsay, Mayfield cops focused on Jeremy Adams as their primary suspect. Here's attorney Miranda Hellman again.

Remember, she would come to represent a different suspect years later in 2008.

Jeremy, he has a fairly long criminal record. It's sort of well known, I think, in Mayfield that he struggles with substance abuse and mental health. He was in and out of shelters and sort of living on the street. His arrest record kind of shows a lot of the same things. Some of it's violent. Some of it is domestic violence related.

This view of Jeremy is shared by John Poole, a local private investigator who would also end up on the defense team for one of the accused.

If you look into Jeremy's background, he has a real history of selling drugs. Assaults, all sorts of things. From the interviews that I did, people that knew about him said he had a bad childhood. He had all kinds of problems.

And Joe Curran's opinion of Jeremy hasn't changed over the years either.

He's kind of a wild guy.

Most everybody is kind of scared of him because he's—

he does crazy things.

Mayfield police detectives looked for someone with a reason a motive to kill Jessica. According to some witnesses they interviewed, Jeremy didn't want his current girlfriend, Nett Todd, to find out he had fathered a child with Jessica. But Jessica was a single mom and needed government assistance. She had to name a father on the paperwork to get those benefits. Another piece of gossip was that Jessica might have been holding drug money for Jeremy and Lolo. And there's Remember Jessica's 16-year-old cousin, Benicia Stubblefield, the one who told police that she last saw Jessica walking off into the night alone? Well, you're about to hear a tape of a police interview with two other Mayfield teens who claim that at the time of the murder, Benicia apparently admitted to knowing exactly what happened and who did it, something she had not told police initially. According to these witnesses, Benicia told them that she and Jessica were walking home when a white car pulled over.

She was telling me that, that night it happened, Jessica Ferain got killed. She said that she was there, they was walking, and then—

That old police tape is hard to hear, so I'll summarize what they said. They claimed Benicia had admitted to them that she had been sitting in the white car with Jessica Lolo, Jeremy, and a man named Austin Leach. And that's when the men started beating Jessyca. They parked the car by the middle school and got Jessyca out of it. According to the tape, the young girls say Benicia told them she stayed inside and that she heard screaming, then silence before the men ran back to the vehicle. So, I mean, that's pretty explosive information if true. But here's the problem that the Mayfield cops were faced with. New names pop up and disappear, and these young girls are repeating something someone else told them. They don't witness it, so it's hearsay, but leads the police can follow up on. Also, the issue of the white car will be a point of contention and confusion throughout the case. So to be fair, Mayfield police had their work cut out trying to corroborate rumors, chasing gossip, and dealing with witnesses who are afraid to speak out. It was slow work, but over the course of 2 years, the witness statements kept stacking up.

Here's a 2003 police interview with the then-boyfriend of Jeremy's mother, Donna. He claimed Jeremy burst into their apartment in the hours after the murder in a state of panic.

2, maybe 3 in the morning, something like that. Opened the door, I'm laying in bed, Donna's talking to me. And he'd come in here, man, you're gonna talk to me. Like, man, I gotta go to work. Yeah. Anyhow, he's pacing the floor, like, he's acting funny, you know. He just told me, man, he said, man, I think I fucked up.

Again, let me clarify, this guy is claiming to the police that Jeremy woke them up in the middle of the night talking about how he screwed up. He didn't say what he'd done, just that he was going to go to prison for it.

Anyhow, man, he said, "I'm probably gonna go to prison for this shit." And he just, he would tell me what happened. It's just that he just kept over and over and over that I fucked up. Now I'm going to prison.

In that same interview, Detective Tim Fortner asks if Jeremy's mom, Donna Adams, knew anything about the crime. It seems to put Donna's boyfriend in an awkward position. But his answer is telling.

You think Donna knows anything? Yeah. She'll take it to her grave too. That's it? Yeah. She loved that kid.

For the Mayfield cops, the final piece of evidence were statements from Jeremy's own cellmates. You see, Jeremy was in and out of jail on drug charges in the years since the murder. Between 2000 and 2004, and various inmates reported similar things to the police. According to them, Jeremy outright confessed that he murdered Jessica.

He was worried that Annette was going to find out that he had a baby with her and that he had been cheating with Jessica. He said that she had— as they was arguing, he grabbed a hold of her and I guess it had startled her or what have you, and she had struck him. And she struck him. He said that he lost control of himself and picked something up. He had said, described it as a piece of metal and struck her. She was running when he struck her and she had fell.

He said where he hit her at?

He said in the back of the head. Again, I mean, that's pretty compelling evidence if true. Now, in fairness, we should note here that Jeremy's defense later claimed that these accusations were false. And that any statement from a jailhouse informant came from bad policing. Regardless, Mayfield police eventually charged both Jeremy Adams and Lolo Saxton with the murder of Jessica Curran. Not only did they feel they had probable cause based on circumstantial evidence and witness statements, but they also felt it was proof beyond a reasonable doubt, sufficient to support a conviction at trial. But the defense attorneys, were well prepared. Even before a trial date could be set, lawyers for Lolo and Jeremy got the case moved outside of Mayfield to a neighboring county. As the pretrial hearing approached, local news started circling.

The judge moved the trial of the accused, Jeremy Adams, to Marshall County because of pretrial publicity. Recently, the victim's friends and family pushed to reverse that decision. They argue the new location would not provide a fair trial in this case of a white man accused of killing a Black woman.

Marshall County's population is almost entirely white. The suggestion that race might have played a part in the jury's decision is worth bearing in mind when we come back to the eventual 2008 trial of Quincy Cross, a Black man who eventually is convicted of this crime by a mostly white jury. In the end, the concerns over where Jeremy's trial should take place were never put to the test.

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Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from The Binge, where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of My Fugitive Dad or Dear Franklin Jones, Watching You. I'm an executive producer of The Binge, the true crime podcast network where we bring you a new new series on the first of every month. For Crime Scene, I'm joined by my producer and co-host Cooper Moll, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and The Crimes of Margot Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes Crime Scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground. We're investigative storytellers. And so many of the stories that come across our desk, we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people who have flocked to The Binge for riveting storytelling, deeply investigated true crime series, think of this as all the things that you love about those shows in a single episode. Join us every week in the Crime Scene office wherever you listen to or watch your shows.

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In early 2003, after the cases against Jeremy Adams and Lolo Saxton were thrown out, The community was in turmoil. The mayor of Mayfield publicly demanded an investigation into his own police department. Tim Fortner was removed and then resigned before the Mayfield Police Department handed the case over in its entirety to the Kentucky State Police. Now, it's important to note here that the case against Jeremy and Lola was never heard. It was dismissed, but without prejudice. That means the same charges can be brought again, the same evidence presented, the same suspects brought to trial. So with her son still in the spotlight, Donna Adams was determined to see Jeremy cleared of suspicion. And as you heard from her ex-boyfriend, Donna wasn't one to take things lying down. Over a decade later, she still seemed angry about her son being charged with Jessica's murder. You can hear how strongly she defends her son.

Motherfucker, I may not have no money, but I'm gonna tell you something. You fucked with the wrong kid because he didn't do this. And it may take me 20 years and it may take, kill me doing it, but I'm gonna clear my kid's name.

Donna was something of a force of nature and really took matters into her own hands. With no experience or training, it seems like she started her own amateur detective agency. I knew what was up.

I had to do what I had to do. This is my kid's life, you know what I mean? So I went out, was wired. I turned in 16 tapes at the Mayfield Police Department.

You heard that right. Donna Adams, the main suspect's mother, turned in 16 tapes to the police. Now she means audio tapes, as in interviews that she conducted on her own with witnesses and suspects of her choosing. Many of them, by the way, were covert recordings. She was basically going around wearing a wire. But that's legal in Kentucky since it's a one-party consent state, meaning only one person to a conversation needs to consent to a recording. And of course, Donna was consenting. Still, it's all pretty bizarre. And that's not all. Jeremy also got in on the act. During interviews with police, he let them know that he could help them find the real killer. It was a concerted campaign to clear Jeremy's name. Needless to say, the new investigators from the Kentucky State Police weren't having any of Donna's self-serving investigation to clear her son, and they weren't about to start sharing information with their prime suspect and his family. So, by 2004, Donna felt she needed help. She needed someone who could be seen as neutral, someone the police might listen to. As it happened, she had someone in mind: Susan Galbreath.

Well, I'm sorry, but you fucked with the wrong bitch and the wrong kid. That's how I got so involved.

As it turns out, Susan and Donna were friends. Good friends by most accounts.

Once Susan Galbraith moved to Mayfield, Donna and Susan Galbraith essentially lived in like an apartment-type situation where it was a house that was split. Everything I've seen and believe and what I've been told and reviewed shows that Donna and Susan were friends for quite some time, and that's really how Susan met Jeremy Amy Adams, and I think explains sort of her involvement.

She and Donna often threw parties together. Susan's son Ray was a young man in his 20s by this time, and he remembers Donna at one particular party.

One memory I have of her is I was walking through the house and she like grabbed my face, and she was loud, like very loud and obnoxious.

I have to say, even ignoring the strength of the case against Jeremy, whether he's innocent or not, just taking this in isolation, Susan teaming up with the lead suspect's mother and girlfriend. I'm sorry, whatever her motivations might have been at the outset, I just can't see how she could have been impartial. I suspect she never really looked at the strength of the evidence against Jeremy, rather that she was laser-focused on looking elsewhere. Private investigator John Poole goes further. He believes that Susan had a clear agenda from the outset.

Susan Galbert, as I investigated and others investigated and found, was a, a very good friend of Jeremy Adams' mother, and I believe her whole goal was to take any interest or any problems away from Jeremy Adams.

According to Miranda Hellman, Susan and Jeremy were soon writing to one another, speaking on the phone, even meeting in person. And that in her communications with him, Susan was crystal clear about her role.

She was also very close with Jeremy, that she was getting calls from the jail, that she was really out and out saying that her job, her goal, her mission was to clear Jeremy's name. And not because she didn't know, you know, that she knew he didn't do it. It was just that she was going to clear his name.

So in early 2004, Susan took up Jeremy's cause, joining forces with Donna and Nett. But the question remains, why did she get involved? What's in it for her? Did she simply want to help a friend in need? Was it because she'd hit a rough patch in her life and needed a purpose? Or was there a more practical reason? Like the reward money, perhaps? Back when Susan first got involved, Mayfield City Hall was offering $9,000 for information leading to a break in the case. That's more like $15,000 today. To a woman living on a disability check, that's a lot. Of course, we can't ask Susan ourselves, but her son Ray thinks that reward played a significant part.

My mom let money cloud her decisions, cloud her thoughts, and she was very smart.

The idea that his mom, Susan, far from being an outstanding citizen, may have been involved in an awful con— I mean, defending the son of a friend who, for all she knows, could be the killer for a reward? It's a terrible legacy for Ray to inherit. But Ray, to his credit, is trying to find out exactly what his mother did and face it. Remember the story at the beginning about Pandora opening the box? People often forget the ending, that as all the evils of the world flew out, she managed to slam down the lid and trap one thing inside: hope. The point is, hope is what remains to help us endure.

I'm supposed to do this. If it's wrong, I should fix it, you know, or try to right it.

But it's not easy for Ray. He's struggling. He knows in many ways he's going against what his mother would want.

For my mom, I think if she were— if she were alive, she wouldn't want me cooperating with anybody the way I am. But I think where she's at now, I think she would want to rest in peace, and if there's any way that I can use the stuff that she has to bring peace to anybody, even her, that, you know, it's all worth it.

Next on My Mother's Lies, we see how veteran British journalist Tom Mangled comes to her assistance and opens up a world of possibilities.

Everything Anything that she wanted for herself, it was in her reach now, you know, with Tom being involved.

Like, she wanted big things for herself. And how together they unlocked the doors and the files that would lead Susan to a new suspect.

I had Jeremy's motion to discovery, you know, with stuff like that.

Did you give all that stuff to Sue? Yeah, she's got every bit of it. That's next time on My Mother's Lies. At the time of release, we have not received a response from Carlos Saxton or Jeremy Adams regarding allegations reported in this episode. Nett Todd responded denying having any knowledge of the crime nor any involvement with Susan's investigation. The Mayfield Police Department responded saying none of the investigators that worked on the Curran case 26 years ago remain employed by the department, and the department was, quote, not in a position to respond to the allegations. Don't want to wait for that next episode? You don't have to. Unlock all episodes of My Mother's Lies ad-free right now by subscribing to The Binge Podcast channel. Search for The Binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on Apple? Then head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. As a subscriber, you'll get binge access to new stories on the first of every month. Check out the Binge channel page on Apple Podcasts or getthebinge.com to learn more. This is My Mother's Lies, an original production of Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, hosted by me, Beth Karis.

From Message Heard, Alice Arnold is our investigative producer, Robin Simon, our producer. Macalester Bexson, our series producer. Tiago Diaz, our assistant producer. Alan Lear is our supervising sound editor, supported by sound editors Lizzie Andrews and Ivan Easley, with original composition by Mike Maines. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Katherine St. Louis and Jonathan Hirsch. From Blink Films, our executive producers Executive producer is Justine Kershaw. And a big thanks to the whole Sony Music Entertainment team.