Transcript of Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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All the videos and clips from this podcast are on the Bill Simmons' YouTube channel, but we are now a video podcast on Spotify, so you can watch it, you can listen to it, whatever you want to do. One thing to promote, Celtic City, our nine-part Celtic Docu-series that we did for HBO and Max, is going to be Sunday, March third, the first episode. Nine straight weeks in a row I spent four years on this. Obviously, meant a lot to me, and I think we did an awesome job. I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did the premiere on Friday night. Had a bunch of people there. I got to talk to Joe Mizzoula about the town. So exciting. Joe Mizzula, I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a really fun hang. But we had a really fun premiere of episode 5, which was about a part of the '80s with the Celtics. That's in my wheelhouse. But Very excited for everybody to watch it, and we'll be talking about it a bunch over the next few weeks. So I wanted to mention FanDuel because on Tuesday on FanDuel Sportsbook, you have the Mavs and the Lakers playing for the first time since the Blockbuster trade.

So it's the first lucre revenge game of I'm sure there's going to be like 40 lucre revenge games. Fanduel is giving all customers a 50 % same game parlay boost for that matchup. So just Just go all in one way or the other, because the easy way to do this is be like, I'm going to take the Lakers and I'm going to take the Overs for the Luka. If you're going to take the Overs, go big. Go like 40 plus, go 10 assist, try to stagger it so you get this huge thing, or go the other way and just assume just about everybody is going to be going on the over with Luca. So zag, do a couple of unders. Do the couple of unders with the Mavs to win. Either way, 50 % same game, partly boost. And remember, goes live on Tuesday. Look for it then. Claim the PBT, the profit boost token. Place your bet for Tuesday's big game. Look for it in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up for the first time on Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us. Ryan, we're We're going to talk basketball and basketball, more basketball.

We're going to try to sprinkle in some goofier stuff as well. He's next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this 4: 15 East Coast time because I'm in Boston. Just went to the Celtics next game. It's another emotional year for us, Rosillo. Sundays with Rosillo. We're back. We made it. Another basketball season to talk about about, complain about, break down. Plus, we have a whole bunch of other things, too. We have the NFL drafts coming up. I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts, maybe some Oscar thoughts, maybe some White Lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you?

I'm great. A lot of reading, a lot of history, beginning of civilization. If you have any questions, we'll get to them maybe after the basketball.

I'm ready. You want to talk some James Polk? I don't know where you want to go.

No, I'm on this huge Susan Weis Bauer kick. But again, I think we should table it.

Okay, we'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics, Knicks. I have just a slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad, and I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Celtics. We're saying that the whole time. We're like, this team can't play with us. And the Celts get up to in the mid 20s. It's like 24, 26. And then the Knicks come roaring back. They come roaring back, man, Brunson and Towns. And we're watching like, Should we be scared? Should we be scared? And then now it's like, it's nine, then it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realized that Tibs has just left his starters in basically the whole game. And that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way. Towns isn't going to play 46 minutes. We're fine. And then the Celts end up finishing him off. Here's where I'll start with you. Does Tibs know that the regular season, especially in the East, doesn't really matter, and that you just want to be one of the first four seeds, and that to put Miles, like the Miles that he put on some of his guys today, is His insanity?

I don't get it. I just don't understand it.

He doesn't care. I mean, I'm sure he understands it. In the brief time that I had access to him, we were at ESPN together. He's so smart about basketball. I think I left the room just going Do I know anything?

You made you doubt yourself.

Yeah, because I mean, I've told the story before, but we were watching a game together, and then it was an inbound. It was a simple inbound play, and I just went, What? And then he ran through seven different things that you could do defending this inbound, and I just was like, Jesus. And look, this is what everybody says about him. We know that he's brilliant, but yeah, he doesn't care. And I think when you looked at the earlier part of this week, because New York, we know the record against the top three teams, Boston, OKC, and Cleveland, they're 0 and now, but they played in Chicago on Thursday, and it was an overtime game. And here are the minutes. Precious, 46, McKeill 44, Kat, 43, Brunson 38, McBride played 42, and then he played three other 17 minutes. They go into that Cleveland game fresh off of that, where Cleveland, I think, was coming off a back-to-back. You could see within that game, you're like, they're toast. Boston had the extra rest day. New York had the rest. That third quarter was awesome because Brunson and Kat are awesome. But I couldn't believe he put Kat back in after he left with the lip.

After he twisted his ankle. They were down 18. It's like, Do you want to get stuck with some Tate Amaisos? Yeah, with two minutes to go, let's do it.

Well, we're looking up, and I'm looking at that thing. I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 the first 36 minutes of the game. So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically.

And they were great.

Try to hang around. But the Celtics were playing their bench guys, too, and trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started. And you could see it at the game. You could see Hart, who was, I thought, really good. Any stoppage, you could see his chest heaving. And Towns started to slowly die because Towns was awesome. But he ran out of gas, and the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him, and then Towns finally twisted his ankle. But I just watch stuff like that. And I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever about how he doesn't care about the minutes, but I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs with these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game when we get to the playoffs. They don't need to do it now. You look at the standings, it just doesn't matter after the top four and whether they're going to be two, three, or four I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy. Any Knicks fan I know is like, well, just wait till we get Mitchell back.

It's like, all right, so that's going to be your big X factor in the playoffs? This guy who barely ever plays, keeping your fingers crossed on him, keeping your fingers crossed on Towns and 6'1 Brunson and Nana Noby, who always gets her, to just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game. I think it's irresponsible. I don't get it.

We've spent so many years, though, talking about guys not playing with Effort. Effort, culture, all that stuff came up big time this past week with the Four Nations tournament, how great that was. I spent some time talking about just like, look, the sports are a little bit different, but I think the NBA is a much better place than when you go back five years ago. It depends on which snapshot you want to take of like, man, these guys miss a lot of games. Again, a lot of that stuff was team candidates. I don't know that any of it... I know actually the answer to it. None of us loved it. I do feel guilty with what I think is Tib's approach that you know when you're on his team, this is what we do. This is what we do, this is how hard we play, and this is the approach. And it seems like the players don't mind. It's just funny when they do those player surveys, it's like, which coach would you least want to play for? Tib is almost always the answer because they see this stuff.

Well, and then Towns is somebody that I just think... And I thought he was really good in the first... In the second and third quarter, I thought he was really good. But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful of. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. Over the years. But when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time. The Celtics, they did the same, the offense slowed down. But Towns, who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guard him Which is a Celtic strategy. And then Towns was like, I'm going to actually use my weight, and I'm going to bulldoze into dudes. And the reps were letting him do it. And all of a sudden, he went from zero points to 20 in about, I don't know. It felt like 20 minutes of real-time, not even game-time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them, when they're all playing well, and you see the five guys, and they'll have these eight-minute stretches where it makes sense. I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes in the bench, I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I want to talk to you about today.

I think they're one level below. I really only think it's OKC in Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in. But I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now.

You're right. It's not just today. I thought Boston came out with a great, just an awesome approach, just pushing the ball in transition. That's when they're starting five with those five guys playing and you're going, Okay, this almost looks unfair. Jalen Brown was awful. I know he has points.

So bad.

I just couldn't understand what his approach to the game was today, even though if you just box score, you'd be like, What are you guys talking It got better.

It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.

You're down 27. We could talk minutes because you're right about the minutes part of it, but to get it from 27 to 4 is exhausting. Yeah, right. On top of whatever Tib is doing in the subpattern. Then, Boston, the only blemish on the entire two-year resume of this team is that you'll go, Are you guys shooting the other team into this game right now? What the hell is going on, and a lot of that happened in the third quarter. But back to your original point, did you have an open mind before today about the Knicks being in that one line? Right. Okay. Because let's run through the resume. It's 0-7 now against the three teams in Boston, Cleveland, and OKC, and it's also not close. In those seven games, they're losing by an average of 20 points.

In those seven games- And they're down big. Yeah, they're down big in every game at some point in the game.

These are blowout games, and they've allowed 125 points per game against those three teams in those seven games. The data tell... I really enjoy them. I think they're fun. I can't wait to see what happens with them in the playoffs. But as great as Kat has been, you can see against big wings and what Tatum is looking for, Tateam had a couple... End of the first half, he had two switches into Cat where he drives right on. I think one worked, one didn't. They weren't... One was a really tough make, the other was a decent look. Then that play at the very end when he hits the three, he knew Kat was like, I don't want to run up because this guy's attacking the shit out of me. Tateum comes off the screen knowing he's pulling up because Kat is so far away from him. That's just what they're going to do. You're right. Maybe Mitchell Robinson helps Of course, will help if he's healthy. But solving this seems like a massive ask of that guy.

I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them. With all the guys they have to throw at Brunson, with all the ways they can attack towns, with the fact that their two wings are just better than the next two wings, and those guys are really good. And I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today, and especially just watching. There's stuff you can see on TV, but then in person, just the motor that he has, and how he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops. You can watch him. He's just taking these big breaths because he knows he's got to go like a rabbit again. But I think it's a bad matchup for them. And Cleveland, weirdly, is, I think, even though Cleveland has been great, they have 10 losses, and they're playing after we tape it, I think Cleveland is a more realistic series for them than the Celtics are. With the size the Celts have. Now, the question with the Celtics is, poor Zingas we saw today who's moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May? Drew They've been really kid gloves with the whole season.

Chad Fina, the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan. I thought that was great. I'm going to steal it from him. He's just on that, Yo, man, just be there in April, May, June. We don't care about right now. Feel free to just whatever, pick your spots. Today, he gave a shit. When he gives a shit and poor Zengus is healthy, this team is still, in my opinion, the best team in the league. I just don't know, is that team going to be there in April or May? We'll see.

They were so lucky with the injuries last year and then facing a Dallas team that wasn't going to be able to exploit some of the weaknesses to the point where they didn't even really need Porzingas. So the whole design of this Celtics team, the whole reason why you move the assets you do at the time, and then remember, the factual obligation to Prisingis. Because even if you liked him in that Washington season where he was pretty good, you're like, Man, that is a leap of faith. But they had to do it to get him to opt out. Look, when they're right, that first quarter, You're right. I don't know what it looked like in person, so I'll defer to you here. But that first quarter was just a nice little reminder. They've been on a really good run here, by the way, too, after that weird 500 play stretch, which basically is going to happen to anybody in today's NBA. But that first quarter, I was like, Man, is this nasty, and they just do a great job. Here's the most important stat. I'll ask it. What do you think the most important stat from today's box score was in this game?

What was it? Rebounds?

Brunson's zero free throw attempts.

Oh, because I had a Brunson thing for you. Something important happened today. There was a moment. My dad and I agreed. I think he's become the preeminent flopper in the NBA. I actually have to put him- The reviewed play or the inbound when he was coming right to left. It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends. He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working. But I think Harden is getting a little older. Maybe his best flopping days, probably 2018, '19 range. Trey Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have got in his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on pics. He's flopping coming off screens. He's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a He's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen.

He's all first team, no question.

Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for MVP. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high, but Just what I saw today, I was in awe.

He didn't even get any free throws, though. I mean, this is a low free throw attempt game. I think at the end of the third quarter, there were 16 total, or I think Cornet then took a couple. They were letting them play.

Especially on the Towns' drives, they were letting them play.

Yeah, but see, Towns, it's amazing how productive... I don't know if there's anything in the NBA that I dislike more from start to finish that's more productive than his drives. I think they're better this year than they even were with Minnesota. It's slinging them up. The Minnesota drive, what are you doing? He's been so good. This is the perfect role for him because there's all these other guys. You can have a McKeel game, you can have an OG game. Hart can go off. Brunson He's still going to be the focal point on all this stuff. He's a stretch five, which I think is almost mandatory if you're trying to be a title contender. But we know their defensive numbers are not good. We know what they are against those other top teams. And today wasn't really close, man.

It wasn't. Well, they Also, it's weird with Bridges and O'Gee. I texted during the game because one of my favorite Rizolo jokes is, though... Was Tobias Harris out there? Oh, no, he was out there for the last hour. I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, Oh, it's No, Bridges. I forgot he was playing. It's exciting. And then Ogie, but both of those guys had these really quarter long stretches where they might inbound the bottom. Like, oh, yeah, Bridges. There he is. They haven't figured out the same way the Celtic I think, with White and holiday, who can take a back seat because you have Tate has the ball a lot. They'll run the place for Porzingas. Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots. And White and holiday, I figured out how to sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. They're always involved. What I saw today and what I've seen on TV, too, is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.

Did it feel like it was anything that was happening to them? Because like Brunson got off to a really slow start, and then those guys go nuts. I mean, what was it? 38 points in the third quarter.

They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined. Brunson got coroned a couple of times.

Then I thought there was another time where it was the same movement where they were going to get Brunson down the left side, and they brought Tatum over as a third defender. They just were like, Fine. I thought there was these little moments in there that back up what you're saying. So go ahead.

Well, I was ready to almost lead the pod with Tatum. Then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still the last hunt for him. Because the first half of that game, his two-way game, and you saw it in the Philly game, too, and I feel like it's getting better a year ago. His passing, it feels like he's going to be between seven and 10 assists almost every game now when he's locked in. His rebounding and his Swiss Army knife stuff that he does on D, where he can guard basically everyone on the other team. I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's still that last piece where it's like, he never has the awesome 48-minute Oh, my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four. I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Jokuj level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. Right now, he's at about an hour and a half. Does that sound too nitpick No.

My thing with Tatum has been pretty consistent that as much as I loved him, and I think I appreciate him, that there was never going to be a time where that guy's the best player in the world. That seems like an impossible goal to accomplish. Would you agree with that? Are you hesitating?

No, because sometimes when I watch him, when he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces, but at this point, I think it would have happened. I think we would have had some nudge where we would have had some crazy stretch that all the greatest players have had. What SGA just said, where SGA was just like, I'm just going to score 50 points a bunch of times, though, and my team's just going to win every game. That's the last... So he's like a level below. All the MVP pallet stuff, the MVP is basically done. It's the top two guys. But I think Tateum, I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year. I would put him against Giannis. I would pick Tateum. I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team. I know his team's been a little bit better, but the durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't credit for. He fucking plays.

Yeah, he's... Look, this is the most I've ever appreciated him.

Me too.

His passing, the way he beast guys. A team, the other day, we were just like, Bullshit because Goldsbury and I had done constructing our most complementary starting five of today's players. I put Tatum on it because I felt like he provides so much. He's basically playing point guard at this size. Right. I don't know if that gets talked about a lot And guarding towns on the other end.

There's nobody in the league doing that other than him, basically.

Right, which is what he did in the NBA Finals. Now, granted, the game's different. So it's not like he's down in the post against Moses Malone for 40 post-ups a game, He was a center on defense, and he's playing point guard. Maybe somebody else brings the ball up, but then they bring it back to him, and it's his decision making. Maybe there's some output stuff that doesn't line up with the SGA's or the nights where Anth goes fucking crazy, which is just so much fun to watch. Ant having one of those nights is probably still my favorite thing other than just a reminiscent Curry flamethrower game. Honestly, I would tell you, there's certain moments with Ant that I probably still like more than any other single player in the league. But Tatum just has more options around him. I still would say Boston at its peak has more options offensively than even Oklahoma City does. I don't know if there would be much of an argument there. Even though you're not getting that peak output that would maybe put him in the belt conversation, I am so happy with his approach that it's... I'll take this.

His assist ratio on the advanced stuff has never been better. A lot of the advanced metrics are peak for him, but there's also... It's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics. There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is. He had a baseline drive on O. G. Where he went right into him and moved him off the spot and got the free throws. I'm like, How many other guys 20 plus feet away would have the balls to at O. G. And look like the stronger player. I've never been more in love with his game than what I've seen this season.

That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff that he's been working on the last couple of years If you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the '22 Finals, I think they beat the Warriors. He wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he could do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. I love the durability and the fact JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game because they're way better on defense, the Lakers. I think they're third in defensive rate in the last 20 games. They were even playing better before the trade. Somebody asked him what was different. He's like, The NBA is about just playing hard, making sure your team plays hard every night. I think that's a skill that Tatum, where if he's taking off a quarter and Charlotte, you really notice it because of the level of intensity that he has game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. When he doesn't have it, you're like, Oh, shit.

What's wrong with Tatum? What's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebounding? It's really airing. Anyway, I think he should get probably more credit for that. I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the play-off.

You really think it's... Well, I think you've already answered that it's a close case. But at any point, do you think I mean, I guess he's got a couple of years to go, but is he going to surpass SGA?

I don't think it's ever going to be as easy. For the Jokuj stuff, that Jokuj night-to-night, it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody, the best possible shots. Last night's a bad example, but for the most part, SGA is just like, he's just getting the 35. He's just getting the 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing. He's just going to get to where his points are. I think Luca is in that category too. I don't know if Tatum is ever going to be at that level. But I think to me, he reminds me, it's a weird one, and I know I'm thinking about it, probably because we just finished this nine-part Celtics docuseries. But to me, he's more like a Havlecheck type. He's this Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team. He's never the best scorer in the league. He's never the best assist guy, but he's just additive. And I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and he's got size, all that stuff. But just they could play small ball center with them if they wanted.

He could also play point guard for them if he wanted. The other thing with the Celts that I think, Cornet has been playing really well. And Pritchard has been up and down. Hauser is coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think. And then Horford being able to only play 18, 20 minutes. Their bench is back. And I think I wouldn't be surprised if they went on a little run here over the next three, four weeks because they haven't really had a run this season. We're going to talk about that after the break, some teams that we think might make an actual run. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak. Have you felt like they've had one kick-ass three-week stretch other than you'd have to go back to November. I just don't remember it.

Yeah, but are they 12 and 3, 11 and 4 in the last 15? I know it was 12 and 4.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the stuff they were doing last year where they were just like, ripping people's heads off for three straight weeks.

Yeah, they're 10 and 2 in their last 12. 12. This feels like it other than the start. Maybe they were in the middle of it. They also had that, I don't know, what is it, seven-game stretch there in November. The weird thing was just a couple of games against lesser opponents, a Toronto game. They could have lost a New Orleans game, and the standard for them is so much higher. But that first quarter was so impressive that... I was just a nice little reminder, I think, on a national stage for everybody of like, this is what this team is capable of. I know that there's anybody else. Now, granted, you talk about the OKC defense, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later today, might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different people, but those first 12 minutes were just awesome.

Let's take a break, and I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with personal price plan. And bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs, Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer Our availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. So I want to talk about intriguing subplots with 30 games left, and some of them are easy to figure out, and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this, and it makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot to watch over the next 30 games.

The Denver game was so interesting last night to see the real Luka in a Lakers game and to watch their centers, whatever. They're just double teaming Jokuj. They're just going to be happy with Westbrook and those, like whoever. Fine, shoot 16 for 41 from three. We don't care. We got to take out Jokuj. But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the trade was just 48 minutes of Luka and LeBron or Luka or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. I've never wavered from thinking Luka was going to be awesome on this team. I just thought it was scary last night. If I'm in the West, I think there's four teams that can win the title, and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me.

I agree, and it's the defensive numbers. You mentioned it, if you go back to the last 15, that's the number one defense in the league. They're 12 and 3. It's the best record over the last 15. Do you understand that?

What's your explanation for that, other than just they're playing hard?

Well, I think having some of the pieces... I thought Rui played his ass off last night, both. I mean, you can look at the points, but it was what he was doing defensively. Now, granted, Vando comes in and just hacks his shit out of Jokić, but I was They're not going to call all of these, although they tried to call all of them on Bannerbell because he didn't play a ton of minutes. But the Kam Redish thing seems over. The Dalton Connect minutes are limited if you start looking at these things. I think we gave Vincent being healthy with Vando being healthy with them liking this Rui center matchup stuff because they're basically forced to figure this out because the Jackson-Hayes minutes usually aren't that great because the longer he's out there, the longer there's just going to be something that happens. And specific to last night, Bill, I loved that game. Okay?

Me too. I thought it was really impressive.

Because we look at the playoff and you go bracket-wise, like how far can LA go? I was like, Well, they're going to run it to Denver again, so that's not going to work. And last night's one result. But I thought this coaching staff showed the difference, where it's always about the roster for me. But there are little times, like Kenny Atkinson this year with Cleveland, like clearly there's something better with this, with his approach to basketball. I think JJ and his staff did such a fantastic job of last night's preparation. The possessions, when you really looked at what they were doing, there's these non-spacing lineups that Denver runs out there outside of Jokich, where the Lakers are like, If this is what you're going to run out, we are not going to pay attention to Aaron Gordon. We're not going to care about Westbrook. They had a play, and I'll finish here, but LeBron was on Jokich in the paint, left side. Dalton is in the dunker spot, ignoring Aaron Gordon. He's basically under the rim. The other two wing players to the right, the Lakers defenders are in the paint. So that's four players in the paint against Jokić.

The only one that was providing any spacing was Michael Porter Jr. At the top of the key, and Rui was defending him, but Rui was only a foot beyond the free throw line. You saw possession after possession where you could see the Lakers, specifically the way they prepped that game last night, I think that's a credit to JJ and the staff going, We've got to come up with something new that's Jokeage-specific, and it worked. It really wasn't much of a game on top of all the Luka stuff that I know you want to get to.

Well, they did the same thing that that Celtics game that we both went to in LA, where they kicked the Celtics ass, and part of it was they just were really well-prepared. They used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I had been waiting for somebody to do. The So it's like, Oh, you're going to try to force it to Porzingas? Great. That's going to throw your whole team out of whack. Keep giving the ball. And Porzingas had a good first quarter. Nobody else did. And then it's like, Oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his off for six minutes. We're going to make really hard for him. You were just watching it going, Oh, this team's got their shit together. Last night against Denver, you would think, Well, why doesn't everybody do that against Jokuj? First of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it. And your guys have to be really disciplined with it, but they have to have smart players. Everyone makes fun of Luka's defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player. Lebron, I think, has been noticeably better on defense for, what, a month and a half now?

I don't know what the timeline is. Where we were the first month of the season where it was like, oh, my God, he's just not playing. He's a DH now. Now he's really active. They just have size and physicality that I think... You saw it against the Celtics. They bullied the Celtics. Now, slightly different team. But when they have Rui and LeBron and Luke all together, that's 800 pounds of dudes.

So are you in? Are they your fifth team? Are they the first team outside of your tier one playoff? Title contender?

I wrote down- You teared us up? No, I wrote down things I like about them. The number one thing is just always having Luke or LeBron out there. One of the two or both. I think it's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunston has to sit down. It's like, All right, it's campaign time. Cross your fingers. The Lakers just never have that.

Campaign was nice, though, that first shift.

He was. He made three in a row.

That's probably the best thing ever for a Knicks opponent. They're like, Hey, don't forget. Like, tight game, second half. The campaign made three in a row in the first half, so that's good for us.

He's going to think he can get to 20. The fact that the defensive numbers... If they were ninth or 11th, the Lakers, I'd be like, Okay, that's a little fluky. It's probably some... When you're in the top five, when you're in top three, that's not fluky at some point. I think JJ is a legitimately good coach. I thought what they did last night to Joker, who was terrible because they made him terrible, But then you just look at it. It's just that at some point it's math. Last night, LeBron and Luka had 59, 19, and 12. If you're going to get numbers that look like that from your best two guys, you're going to be heard from from a couple of playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited. But this is why we all went nuts when the trade happened. This is fucking crazy. You don't just get to add the fourth best guy in your team, in the league to your team, just for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, who, by the way, has been playing great.

Yeah, he has been good. I think some of the worst anti-LeBron content that I've ever seen was Luka's stat lines, those first three games with LeBron. I get, if you hate LeBron, you hate LeBron, come up with better evidence than that, because I I went to Luca's first game that he had played in two months. I went to Crypto that night to watch him play against Utah. He was so tired four times up and down the court. I'm like, Oh, man. I'm He's so tired. He hasn't been complaining because he's on a new team. We haven't seen him. It was funny. Obviously, last night's the best that he's looked with the Lakers. That first half was incredible, the way he was getting into a shot. Basketball is funny, man. You can be this incredible player. Here we are talking about somebody who has a chance to be the best player in the world, and it's like, I'm new here, so I'm just trying to fit in for a little bit. If you're a coach and it's Luca, you're like, Don't He'd be trying to fit in, dude. Just do what you do, and then we'll figure it out around you.

Just because the stats were bad, and then they had the weird breaks, all that stuff was so stupid. He was great last night. It was funny, too, because he made a play, and then he cycled out the three-point line, was wide open, and he didn't get the ball back. It's the first time I've seen him pissed with the Lakers, and he put his hands up like, You idiots. What are you doing? And I'm going, This is great. That's what you want out of this dude. You want him pissed that he didn't get the ball back. I'm shocked the defensive numbers are that good the last 15. It's been a big part of this turnaround. They finally beat Denver, so I'm not ready to say that they've solved Denver. There's just going to be some spacing stuff in the playoffs where if it's Westbrook or if it's Brown, and I think even Michael Porter Jr. Is like a coin toss game. Gordon is a matchup-specific guy, but they're going to ignore him even though he's shooting over 40% from three. They just did a great job of loading up on all this stuff. But look, man, your closing group in a tight playoff game, if the three perimeter dudes are LeBron, Luka, and Reeves, I have a hard time believing that defense is going to be just living on stops, though, in the playoffs.

Yeah, they're probably trying to outscore Sure. The Luka dialog was... I feel like a lot of the sports dialog is just getting worse because it's just this quick rush to whatever judgment. He could have one bad game, his first cycle game, and everyone's like, Oh, my God, this is why the maps traded him. Nobody thinks of the human element of this guy thought he was going to be the next Dirk DeWitzke in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming. They trade him. He's got to move to LA. He's got to figure out where he's going to live. He's taking shit about that. He's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much, and they didn't want to give them the max. They're just laying into him left and right, leaking stuff to make him look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits in this new team. He's got to play with LeBron, who's this guy he grew up watching. He's got to figure out how he fits in offense. New coaching staff. He's not in shape. It's like, Oh, you think this is going to go bad for a week?

Yeah, and he hadn't played. He hadn't played in two months.

He hadn't played basketball. Perkins Perkins tweeted three days ago, It's going to be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luca he is to get in basketball shape, get his legs center. Then last night, he tweets, Like I said, give Luca time. It's like, yeah, no kidding. We got to give Luka time, sure, to adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts that anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're going to be okay with Luka Donchik. I'm not worried. But people were worried.

I don't know what happened. Who did you respect that was what was worried?

Well, but some people have platforms. This is what you do. You just go nuts. Get mad. Luka Donchik Which was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him.

I would say over 50% of your tweets are about LeBron or Jordan, then you should just be banned from the platform.

It's fair. We can talk to Elon about it.

Have you been hanging out with him much?

I haven't talked to them. Lakers have the six best odds on Fandil right now, so it's not a hot take to say, Oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wild card team. I went back and I looked at I think this needs a name. I came up with post All-Star, late Bloomer, but I think we could do better.

I don't know. That sounds great. Thanks. What is it?

Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen with Dallas last year. Dallas was 16 and 4 to finish the season. They were fifth net. Remember, they had a big winning streak, then they They had a losing streak, and then they started winning again. And at some point, it felt like there might be something there in a real way. 2023, it happened with the Lakers. They were 16 and 7 down the stretch, fourth net. They ended up making the Western Finals. 2022 is when the Celtics were 25 and 25, then went on the run. Their last 22 games, they were 17 and five, first in net.

Weren't they below 500, too? It might have been. It might have been.

Maybe 24, 25. They made the finals. I threw out the two strike, not strike, the COVID years. And then in 2019, Portland finished the last 25, 19 and 6, fourth net, and they made the Western Finals. So there is a team. There's a track record of a team we didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. For me, it's either the Lakers or Golden State. We're taping this right now as Golden State's playing, and they're beating up on Dallas. But those would be my two picks. Golden State or the Lakers, and I'd probably lean Lakers because of Luca and the talent. Who would you have?

It feels like the Knicks are on the Lakers' line of this, though, right? That's fair.

But I don't think they... Would you necessarily say they would be an out of nowhere team? I guess it could conceivably happen. I think they're more likely to have more injuries and weird shit happen than to go on a run.

But maybe I'm wrong. Okay, but here's something that I like about the Lakers, because I think this is always an important thing. And because I think guys play more often now, because this is going to get really misleading sometimes, you're looking at matchups against the better teams. You're like, okay, who was there? Even when I go through those Knicks seven games, it's basically everybody played in those games for the Knicks. I think OG missed one. There's different times where you go head to head and you're looking at it and getting ready for the play. How do they do against each other? You're like, All these guys missed these games. But again, like I said, it's been a little bit better. The Lakers are one of three teams in the West who have a winning record against teams 500 or better. So clearly, OKC is 20 and 9. The Rockets are 20 and 15, and the Lakers are 15 and 12. I think that's important. Memphis is under 500, Denver is under 500, the Clippers are under 500, Minnesota is under 500. So again, like I said, only three teams. The rest of them all are all under 500.

I think for me on the Lakers part of it is we're totally aligned on the Luka thing. Give me a break. This guy at this age with his track record and because he hasn't played in two months. If you were watching these early games going, what's wrong? This is what you think it's going to be now? You just think this is who Luka is going to be? It's just going to be a quick mess. You know how absurd that is? We're not even at peak Luka. They're putting together this performance. They have this defensive profile the last month or so, but bracket it out. Four or five, they're playing Houston. You're probably picking the Lakers because you trust their offense more than you trust Houston's offense, right? Okay, then guess what's waiting for them on the other line?

Sadly, I did this, and as you know, I hate the Lakers, and this made me sad. Okay, but how- Going series by series, I was like, Oh, my God, they're going to fucking make the Western Finals.

So they're beating Oklahoma City in a one-four matchup? You're crazy.

Oh, no. I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow avoid OKC to the Western Finals.

Then you think they're going to beat Oklahoma City?

Well, so they would have to get to two or three.

Okay. All right. Which I think is completely reasonable.

Right now, they're 34 and 21. Memphis is 37, 19, and Denver is 37 and 20. I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd want to play OKC, but I also wouldn't blindly pick OKC against Luca Labrade either. Would you? I mean, I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like, Oh, lock it in, write it in marker that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous.

Well, I want to see more of the Chet stuff, but defensively, the Chet stuff has been really good. It's not the same as the Luca thing, but we're looking at Chet miss in three months and then trying to come back. He's not taking a ton of shots. I can't wait to see what that guy looks like and what this team looks like. They still have a massive issue with certain match-up bigs. Normally, I would say, what are you going to do against Jokić? Do you really think you're going to survive seven games against... Rui was great last night. But let's not lose our minds about who this team is.

I still have Denver and OKC in the Western Finals. But I think if you start thinking about series by series game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well-coached. They're a match-up team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven? It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them, too, because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half. Then people forgot that he wasn't good. People forgot that he was actually good and valued table in Miami and was in big games for them and knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys. You need a guy like that in a weird team like this. The fact that Reeves has gone up a level, and JJ loves Reeves. The best thing JJ and LeBron have done have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make him really think he's this gifted offensive player.

I think he's playing with so much confidence now. How many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? Not a It's a long list.

It isn't a very long list. I mean, Pat Bave really went for it last night. I think he tweeted out they have the best one through four in the NBA. I was like, who's the fourth? It was like, Rui. I'm like, all right, I'm going. I think you're forgetting about Boston. Then, OKC with Chet, I think there's a lot of guys that you could pick from there that would be in the conversation. But as far as number three guys with Reeves, I mean, is it Derek White?

I was thinking somebody on Cleveland.

Is it Mowbley? Mowbley? Is he It's a completely different player. I'd rather have Mowbley than Reeves, but offensively, initiating your own stuff, it's not even a conversation. Reeves is so good at it.

When you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is that guy scored 45 last night Are you surprised? If Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, What? Did he make 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have? 38, 40?

No, he had 45. He was 14 and 26. That's right.

I wasn't shocked.

Yeah, but the other starter is Dorian Finney-Smith, who, by the way, we hadn't even mentioned yet for the defensive part of what they've done. Getting D'Angelo Russell away from this basketball team. I try to tell you guys. Lakers fans, I know, I get it. He makes a couple of threes and points, and you guys are super into that. But getting him away from this group has also been a big transition from who they are right now. I feel bad we didn't even mention Dorian Finney-Smith at this point. I mean, made one shot last night, and he was a plus 20.

That trade made me mad.

Why? Because you liked Angela Russell so much?

No, because I wanted the Lakers to not be good. I said, Fuck, they got Finney Smith. Finney Smith is good. He's an additive player. There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering. I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after nick Clark.

Was he available, though?

I don't know what... What are the Nets doing?

Playing their ass off.

I know, but they traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan, and then they just can't stop beating teams.

I know. I just don't think Philly was ready for the Keon Johnson Watford two-man game to close. They had no scattering report on that.

Watford was like, I got to get this video to the scouts. I couldn't stop watching.

I tried to turn that game off four different times last night. Yeah, you couldn't. I hate watching the Sixers play basketball. They are disgusting. Okay, I can't. But I can't turn it off. Then I was like, That's close. I'm like, Look at Brooklyn. Look at this team.

No, they can't stop.

Now they're ahead of them. They're ahead of them in the standings in the East. They had flipped it.

In that Philly game, they had a couple of moments where they blew the lead and were like, all right, value and effort. Exactly. Somebody else would hit a three. They'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing. He looks miserable. He's falling down, I think twice as much as he's ever fallen down. Looks like he's legitimately hurt.

What's his F per 100?

I think this is the highest the last couple of weeks. He had that play when he ran in to contest a play in the corner and just went into the third row, we could stop. It's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden State, really quick, to be the late bloomer, is just a combo of Jimmy. I don't know what it about Steph. It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote, but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi for the first three weeks. The way they talk about him, it's just this religious experience to be Steph's teammate. And Jimmy is So there was that clip of him diagramming plays in the huddle. This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water-cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, Draymon, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorating And I think they're legitimately dangerous. Looking at their schedule, and they're beating Dallas today as we're taping, but they got Charlotte, Orlando's a mess, at Philly, great, at Charlotte, at Knicks, at Nets. And then they have a seven-game homestand against Detroit, Portland, Sacramento, Knicks, Denver, Milwaukee, Toronto.

It's a team that could go on a 12 to 2 run, and I wouldn't be surprised. That would be the other one I'm looking at. I guess the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not, because we We haven't seen it this year from him.

His life looks a lot easier having somebody like Jimmy Butler out there.

That's the thing.

The shooting numbers would back it up. The three-point shooting would back it up. Even watching the beginning of today's game, even though it wasn't just super aggressive, having Butler just be somebody else that people are worried about. Of course, they ran some other play where it's like Curry's the lead block on the cut, so everybody freaks out, and then Butler slips the screen, and then he's the second cutter behind it, and he's wide open in a way that he's probably like, this must be... I just can't imagine playing basketball for a living and then getting the chance. No wonder everybody's in a good mood. They're like, this is what happens. When he moves, all of this other shit happens, and then now my life is this much easier. Although I do have to point out on a couple of broadcasts, our memories can't be this short. Butler has a nice game. He's super aggressive. I mean, he was taking 10 shots a game from Miami. It was the lowest field goal.

Not going to foul in at all.

No, he actually still was not He's one of the most hyper free throw rate guys in the league because he pump fakes at the rim and guys just go for it all the time. If you played him in a series, you go, You guys are going to stay down against him. Now, he's shooting a million free throws, but he's just more aggressive now. You can tell he's taking 13 shots a game. Again, the shot count goes down because he's taking so many free throws, right? But for all the stuff that he talked about in Miami, they took my joy from me. He broke up with a quarterback. You're just going We just saw this guy destroy his value around the league, and he makes a couple of cuts and hit some free throws, and it's like, Man, Golden State. Golden State is probably still scared of death of what the long term thing could be here. But in the short term, it's awesome to see some of these possessions late in games where you could just see Steph being like, I'm running around, I get the ball, I'm trapped, I throw it to somebody else, I don't even want to take some of these shots.

Then you have people being like, Oh, his shooting is dipping. It's like, Well, no shit. I think his life is going to be a lot easier now. I still don't even think they're in the Lakers class, though. You have them in the Lakers class?

I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple of weeks because Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State. As we're taping this, they're beating Dallas by 20, and he's already 6 for 6. He's plus 24 in the game. But watching the way he's playing with these guys, it's weird. It reminded me when Moss got to the 07 pats and was just so delighted to be in a real offense with braided, and he was just skipping around, right? And just so happy and had so much space and knew that if he was going to do whatever, the ball was going to be there. And Butler, watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for. I wish we were watching the game right now. But the high IQ thing he has with Draymond, I think, has been fun to watch where he's posting up and Draymon's at the top. They're playing this weird two-man game, but everybody's so scared of the curry shooting. I'm not counting this team out.

It reminds me a bit of when Brian Hydeck was cast as the pool guy in Melrose Place, and he was like, Look, I'm just happy to be here.

Who is it? Brian who?

Hydeck. Who's that? Who's that?

He played- Brian Hydeck?

Yeah, he played the pool guy in Melrose Place. It just reminds me a lot of that.

Pool guy in Melrose Place? I feel like you're making this up.

Google it.

Right. Hi, Dick. Is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list?

Late bloomer list? Is there any Is there any hope for a healthy Orlando?

I had them marked down. They were 6 and 14 in their last 20. There's only way to go.

Their offense in their last month, they're the third or fourth worst offense in the NBA. And boy, when it's bad on offense for the Magic, I'm surprised it was that high, that they were only 27.

The other three had marked down. It's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games.

How many people do you think right now know what seed Detroit is?

Yeah. Not only is Detroit, for the people listening, probably locked into the six seed. It's not like an easy series for the Knicks. They're I'm going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have, Minnesota, just because who knows? 31 and 26, but maybe something happens.

Is Randall playing?

I'm out. Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then the only other one... I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch, but the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers. If there's a long, healthy Kauai stretch, a Bogdanovic resurgence, They're really well-coached like the Lakers. Could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out.

You want to do a little Clippers profile? Do you want to save it?

We'll take a break?

Yeah, let's take a break.

All right. More 30 games left subplots. So your pick would be the Lakers. I think I agree with you, but I have Golden State a little closer to them than you do for a possible late bloomer. Anybody else?

Well, I'm glad. I don't think we spent enough time on Minnesota because I think we did 10 seconds on it. And I know they lost in the Houston game. That was just a frustrating game. They didn't have Rudy, but sometimes is that play to their strength now when you look at some of the declining Rudy stuff. But then that also means Houston, it goes small because even Houston against Utah last night, they lost because they were just... Utah's size bothered Houston. And granted, Houston is rotating some guys in and out, so they're not playing with the full cast of guys. Look, sometimes you're just going to lose to Utah when George decides to go all first-team NBA. But let's just say, okay, open to the idea. I feel a little bit better about Minnesota maybe than I did, because in the beginning of the year, when it was frustrating, it was like, this team's healthy, and these other teams are hurt, and they're losing to these teams. But there's just a Randall stretch here where it's like, man, they might just be better without this guy. They haven't had DiVincenzo for a month either.

You're going to go might for that?

They are.

I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them. I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It's just he screws up the spacing. He might be a good player on other teams for that team. He does not make sense to me.

He's good for 20. It's like, okay, but there's just a lot of other stuff that we need for him.

Here's what I don't love with Minnesota.

Okay, get it to me.

As you know, I'm on the amp bandwagon. There's been There's a lot of really high volume field goal games for him that I can't really explain. Even if you just go in January and February this year, he had a 31-shot game, he had a 29 A nine-shot game, 25, 28. So just the last two weeks, 28, 25, 28, 33, 18, 32. I don't think they're winning three Why off rounds with that happening, would be my point. I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three. He took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in the game, 17 and 14. Just a lot. Then I look at the free throws. In one game, they went by 19. He had 28 shots and 18 free throws, 25 shots and 15 free throws. It's It's a lot of ant. That's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. I wish they had a lot, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices.

No, they've done a good job. Terrence Shannon has been playing well. Clark, this other young player, is coming in. He's been good for him defensively. I'm not disagreeing with any of that stuff. I just think there are certain dudes that maybe I defend because I like them, but I think I like and dislike players for very valid reasons. For the high volume stuff with him, I think the ball just ends up back in his hands. He's getting trapped, he's getting a ton of attention, and it's up to you to figure all that stuff out. He had a play against Houston where he split the screen, and it was two defenders that came with him, and he just split it in a way where I just couldn't believe and believe it was physically possible. Then he almost throws it down from there. Because he's capable of doing some of that stuff, I don't know that he wants to take those shots. Some other players, like again, you just go through the list of guys I don't necessarily like. I think they're totally fine being like, cool.

You did a good job on the LaMelo usage rate, shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pot a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, per 100, he's taken the most shots.

It was 2006 Kobe?

Yeah. We haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions.

That guy, he should be in the All-Star game. He should be.

Well, the other reason he got somebody All-Star votes is somebody pointed out to me after the fact. They're like, Do you realize if you... Well, the voting was still open, but if you went to the voting tab, it was done by points per game. So he was the first option when you went to the page to vote as a fan. So he just was there.

Also, he's popular. They have the top Instagram handles of the NBA. Him and Lons. I will have two of the top five. For most viewers. People like the balls.

They're going to have a point of lottery once as well.

Before I switch topics, that Minnesota-Huston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to Ant, and they got into it a couple of times, and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going, is in the running for my favorite game of the season.

I love that game.

But I really, really enjoyed it.

That was one of those deals where it's like, whatever I'm doing tonight, I'm watching Minnesota and Houston.

I wonder, is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again? Or is he like, All right, here's somebody I shouldn't do that to again, or does he double down on it the next time they play? What happens in a playoff series? Are you serious? Because he's definitely going to do You think he doubled down?

Do you remember him in that Lakers series where people thought his career was over?

This is different, though, with Ant. I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series, and then he would take Ant out of the series, basically.

Well, he did it to LeBron in a way, but LeBron was just not going to fall for it.

But the thing that turned everybody off- Yeah, LeBron was way older and smarter.

Right. Then, Brooks couldn't make a shot, and then he didn't do a media availability, and it was like, what? Yeah, I didn't like that.

No, he liked it. Brooks is a better player now, though, than he was in that Laker series.

It was an awful Laker. People were going, get ready to learn China, buddy type of stuff. I mean, he was a China meme dude. Then all of a sudden, he gets a huge contract from Houston, To Houston's credit, they desperately need him. What I liked about that game is this Amand Thompson progression is nightly, man. You have to watch him every night to see it. You and I were talking about him. We did that pod for The Trade Value thing. I was like, We're doing this at the worst possible time because you're going to lose your shit about Thompson.

But I couldn't- I feel good about... I thought we were properly careful while also respecting the moment. Where was he again? He was like 19.

Okay. I had said something, and I remember I was pissed when we did it. I wasn't mad. I wasn't mad the next day type of mad. But I was like, Are you still going to run pick and roll for him in a late possession? You were like, Well, they did on the game winner. And I was like, I didn't want to get into it with you. I was like, There's four seconds left. They inbounded it to him, and he uses athleticism, and he hits the game winner against Boston. The stuff he was doing against Minnesota and even some stuff that I saw last night against Utah, the drive and kick stuff that he's showing now. Granted, we know he can't shoot yet, which is the funniest thing about how much we all love watching him play. It's like The joke is he's not even good yet, and it's this much fun. But he had a shot because Utah just didn't respect him. He had a shot late last night where it was like, I'm catch and shoot three. I'm not even going to dick around with this. I'm getting this shot up. I'm going to make you try to come out here a little bit more.

There's more and more ball handling with him where they trust him, where there could be this Amen Thompson reward of these Van Vlitt minutes as disrupted as they can be because clearly they need him to organize them on offense, even though they have all these clutch wins, but all their clutch numbers stink, which is one of the weirdest stuff, profiles.

Nobody can create a good shot. That's why with Thomas, it's like, at least when he's driving to the basket and he doesn't know where he's going or what's going to happen, but he always goes by whoever's guarding him.

But he does know that there were these kickouts in that Minnesota game where it was a very clear, like when he takes off, he's going, If I don't have this, I know where to kick it out. It's also just awesome having Jabbari back as the stretch option because it gives you some more flexibility with Shingun because I'll admit there's some, as I can't say it, some Shingun nights where I'm like, What's up with him? Are you there at all with that?

Just feels like he's, depending on the matchup, he's one of those guys.

Yeah. Adams, at this point, is... Do you know how old Steven Adams is?

Isn't he 28? It's some crazy number.

Yeah, he's 31.

But he's been in the league for 25 years? Yeah.

I don't think he should be this bad. Having Jabbari, that's really important for them. Look, none of this was- That's one of those where they could have probably flipped Steven Adams and one of the 90 picks they have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them.

I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're three and eight in their last 11, 18th in net. They've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season. And they're five seed right now. But if I'm Golden State and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left, I feel like I can catch them because I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening in them the first two months. The league, their conference is getting better. Clippers are better, the Lakers are better, the Warriors are better. And I don't know if they're going to stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out. What What do you think?

I was looking at some of that schedule stuff in the expanded schedule where if you look at games against teams 500 or more, which we've already gone through in the record stuff. But Denver's played 26 games against teams with that, and Houston's played 35. Scheduling-wise, they've been a little unlucky. But then when you look at the remaining schedule stuff, it's the top three most difficult remaining schedules. It's Phoenix, Denver, and LA. Houston is down at 18. It should, because of that number and the record I told you about, it should even out. I can't wait to see what LA does. And then we comes back. Yeah. Tari missed the game. I'm not putting a ton into the Utah loss. I put way more into the Minnesota win.

Because that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be, and more importantly, who are the team is going to be? And then how can you avoid that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. It does feel like Phoenix is going to drop out, and we should talk to them. We'll talk about them. They're 27 and 29. They have three more wins than your Portland Trailblazers, your favorite team. They're 6-9, they're last 15, they're 19th of the net. I know you talked to Goldsbury about this on your pot on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsbury. The sons were absolutely alarming in person.

Give it to us. There's no other word. Body language, Bill.

Oh, my God. We were pretty close to the bench, so I could really watch it. They weren't talking to each other. You judge certain things like, how many guys get up after a big play on the bench? What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just stop by? What One of the star players yell at the coach? Well, KD yelled at Bud twice during that game. There was near the end, one of my favorites is when one of the stars, there's somebody shooting free throws at the other end, and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court away from everybody just to go sulk in the corner. That was KD near the end because he was so mad the way they used him in that game, and the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits, and it is not a team that seemed very happy. I I don't know. I actually thought we were talking and it was like, I don't think Bud was trying to get fired, but it was the coaching where you were like, if that guy is trying to get fired, I would point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grace and Allen out there for the entire crush drive and get killed by Darren Fox.

It was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and seemed unhappy. That was my takeaway leaving for two and a half hours, an unhappy team.

Yeah, it's not Bud's fault that people can't come over to help on cuts. And Durant had a bunch of those swiping late, out of position. If you don't believe me, I think Van Gundee was on the broadcast of that one, too, being like, What?

It was tough.

What are you doing? And Durant puts up these numbers, but there's some stuff here. Look, the worst thing Durant did was tweet that the NHL has loyalty and doesn't trade his players, which is still one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.

Did he do that? When was that?

Yeah. It was during the whole stretch where it's like, Why don't you watch something else and you're like, All right, dude. When you look at their whole thing here, I don't know. Rebound is usually a number where you see like, rebound in decline. It speaks to effort and all that stuff. I mean, he's under five rebounds a game in February. The crazy thing is, some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot right now. The shooting spots are incredible. Free throw attempts are down the last couple months. I don't know if this is, Hey, this is part of this little decline here with him, but he still gets his numbers because the guy is so brilliant offensively. But it's up to you, man. It's up to you to be a part of the solution here. They've tried some different things, and they're just not very good, even when they're winning games.

You know what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. I think that was the death no. Because the way the NBA works- I don't think he's wanted to be there, man, going back to last summer. You think that this whole season, you don't think you want to be there?

No, I don't think. I think there was pretty strong indications that if he could have gotten his preference to go somewhere else this summer, he would have done it.

Interesting.

You don't think You didn't hear anything? I don't know.

Well, I never know what to believe with the rant stuff, but I had always heard that he likes Phoenix. But I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the Don't Tell Anyone. In a league where somebody's immediately going to tell somebody, and that's how they found out. I just thought that was the thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Well, Luke had never found out. Listen, I test with us. I've been watching Threan his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career, physically. You can see it. He's as amazing as he is, and we've never seen a guy with that size and shooting and athleticism. He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it. It makes sense because he's been in the league since 2007. This is how it goes.

I don't really enjoy them. I looked at it last year. Remember, we kept waiting. Hey, I don't care about any of the stats. The fourth quarter stuff didn't make any sense. It was so bad. It had to be an anomaly. That part of it has been fixed a little bit. But even with last year's injuries and guys missing games, they were 38 and 28 through 56. They're 27 and 29 now after an eight and one start. They're bottom third in offense and defense the last month. Katie's only missed 13. Booker's only missed three. The Beel bench thing, it doesn't matter because I don't think that dude cares at all. I just don't. They needed those three guys to be just top level, not to sound like a soccer analyst, and they've rarely gotten that.

The Beel thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard. Then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, Oh, shit, this is on TV, and there's fans. Then he started trying harder. But It's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs. There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. It's probably the all-time new owner syndrome example we're going to have other than Prokheroff, which I think is number one.

Although Dallas in the running.

Fair. I still think Prokherow- It's unbelievable.

I've done this assignment. If you go through every ownership transition, the new owners fuck up so bad within the first 12 to 18 months. Even Cuban, when he brought it in, and I never forget him being on with Dan Patrick talking about acquiring Ralph LaFrance. And I remember thinking, what the hell is he doing? And then Cuban just so good. After 10 minutes of Dan Patrick, I was like, oh, I guess getting Ralph LaFrance is a good idea.

Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would Do we just keep the roster intact for a year or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like they would be the latter.

I would be so determined if I owned a team to not screw up in the first 18 months I would just say no to everything.

I think Prokheroff was worse than the Luka trade, and here's why. Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed the strategy was insane. It makes no sense. It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible. But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokharov, his plan was, let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about pics. Let's keep going, going, going, going. And then it didn't work for a year. And he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zag the other way, but now they had no more pics left. I just don't feel like anyone's ever going to top that. Two strategies that one was worse than the other in the span of two years. And he just demolished basketball in Brooklyn for no reason.

Well, the fact that he changed course so quickly after he'd already started… It's like digging a hole for a house and going, you know what? It should be here now. No, you can't. I mean, even then, eventually, you'd have a house at the end of it.

It's like digging a hole for a street. It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses.

Which way do you want these highways going? North-south?

I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. I'm not going to say it. It's just, spell the lots.

Yeah. But the problem is there's no single piece that's as damp. I mean, I guess you could get into the Tatum and the draft picks and all that stuff, but they weren't Tateum wasn't playing for that franchise and having everybody fall in love with them over the course of seven years. The way, the reaction... I saw a quote the other day on the Luca Trade where somebody had said, We had underestimated the reaction to this.

Multiple people said that.

What did you think was going to happen? It just sucks even worse because AD gets hurt immediately. But the other thing that I love, too, about this, and I'm going to make this joke throughout the rest of my career, is this What stupid fucking timeline people do and talk about and how married they are to the age timeline of NBA rosters. We need somebody on this timeline. It's like, so if Cooper Flag, if you had the number one pick, would he be too young to put with Kyrie and AD now?

He's not on our timeline. He's only 18.

Yeah, right. As if every rebuilding team, everybody has to be between 18 and 22. And then any team that's going for a championship is like, This guy's 25 and good? What the fuck are you guys doing? It's way too much of a cap with the rest of our timeline and all this stuff.

Also, the iconic part of the reason you're getting rid of Luca because he's not a safe enough risk physically and his devotion to the game. Then you trade for Davis who gets hurt an hour into his first game.

I thought you nailed it when you were tweeting out about that really good feature with the owner who's... What is he, the son-in-law?

Married into the fan.

Patrick, is it Dumont?

This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you. You marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting in a professional basketball. This is it. This is the path.

No, I go on Instagram and constantly single daughters of NFL ownership. Their pictures. I'm like, oh, killing it. Nothing creepy, just really tasteful stuff. Be like, oh, it's such a great sweater.

That party looks awesome.

Yeah. Oh, my God. That's so great that you guys reach out to the community like that. Keep doing you. He went through all of these players. Clearly, Nico had gotten to Patrick. It was basically to be on brand here. The messaging should be, We here at the Dallas Mavericks want people that are fully committed. Clearly, look, it's no secret on the Luca thing. He wasn't committed enough. I'm not going to make the argument that he was and was misunderstood. But you can't then run through all the list of players and be like, Kobe and Shaq When Shaq himself would admit that I could have done a better job. That was the whole reason of the Kobe Shaq divorce, is that Kobe fills line to him being like, your 10 is unattainable for everybody else. Your 10 is their seven, and they don't understand that there's a higher number. That's your gift. That's what makes you you. Holding everybody else that standard is completely pointless. All you're going to be doing is wasting your time. So getting on Shaq's case because he's not going to approach the offseason the way you are, that's unsolvable, man. And When he went through the list of players that he admired because of their work ethic and their conditioning and all that stuff, and as much as we all love Shaq, he'd be the first to admit that he didn't take it serious enough while he played.

It was an awful quote.

He wouldn't have been in my top seven than 100 to list for that. I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's seven. What did you say? Thanks, John. Thanks for just to relax on everybody on Greenland.

Did he? Did he say that to you? No, he didn't. What did he say to you? What's the most meaningful thing that he ever said to you?

Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me. To care about the relationships with the people you have professionally because those are things that are going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize.

Yeah, I didn't realize that until recently. He didn't say... He recommended Game Change, the book, which I did enjoy that summer.

It's a good one.

It's a good book.

More story lines for you. I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is like the- Let me ask you then.

Let me ask you a Philly question off of what we just did.

No, but I'm saying I want to almost save Philly. Philly is like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out that's got the table where the guy is going to do a baked Alaska. That's how much excited I have to talk about Philly.

Does anyone actually make a baked? I've never even seen one. It's the most referenced food item that I don't even think exists. Never seen it on a menu. I've never seen a presentation. I've never seen anybody order one. I think it's fake.

I think I've had it once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight, and they owe a top six pick to OKC. And now they're in this zone where it's like, should we just fucking... Should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny. I wrote down, could this hit mid 2010 Brooklyn proportions for them? Where I was thinking of the single bleakest situations we've seen in the NBA. And I think the bleakest they can get, and I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it. When the Vin Baker trade, when it became clear that there was no way of getting out of his contract, and you just start looking ahead and you're like, Wow, this is... So we're going to have this for three more years, and we're just fucked. And that's slow globalization comes in. And I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the George and Bede money. So you have that on top of, you might give the seventh pick in the draft to OKC. You might not even get a draft pick out of this season if you can't laying in the plane on this lottery, what would you do?

I would tank.

So you're shutting everybody down? Yeah.

There's no point. Why is this MB thing going to look better this year?

It's not. It's not going to look better tomorrow. Then Paul George, he's like, Yeah, my finger, I'm taking shots. It's like, Well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time? Are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about?

If I were a CEO of a company and I wanted to short my own stock, but I couldn't just say it outright, I would hire Paul George to run PR. What are they doing over there?

Do you feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season? Because I feel like both of us danced around, including in convos with each other recorded, where I was trying to be diplomatic. But deep down in my soul, I just felt like this was a bad fit, and it's been way worse than I thought.

See, the problem with it was is that on one hand, you have Darryl pulling a rabbit out of his hat in a way that very few GMs can. Whether it's having a top five player in the world when he's healthy and in beat, because that's what he was. But even if you don't like him now, and I don't like him now, you have a guy who's going to make multiple All-Star teams, most likely in maxi. You hit, what, 21st pick, and then all these other little things, and you delay the maxi extension. You figure out a way to move hard and out because you knew after that playoff series, it's like, I don't really want to extend this guy to was talked about and how many different versions of that story you've heard. Then you have this cap space. It almost never works out for anybody. Then you have this rare instance where, in this case, the Clippers the incumbent team, decide they're okay losing the asset for nothing and not giving this player who's all-NBA level a fourth year. Everybody just gives them the fourth year. Why are you not giving them the fourth year.

So you have this one team that's deciding to not give the fourth year. And it's not like they weren't going to pay them a ton of money in the three years, but they're not going to give them the fourth year. Who cares? Just do the fourth year. You'll figure it out later. It's better than just letting them walk. And they let him walk. So now you can use this cap space on a guy who, in theory, is all NBA, even if we would say that he feels like with all of his talent, at the end of it, Paul George is probably going to be a disappointing player for his career. And now he's even worse. When they've needed him, when other guys has been out and you've needed him to be this alpha, he's just incapable of it. Then on top... It's all of this credit on top of, to your point, is George, personality-wise, the guy that fits into Philadelphia knowing what the standard is and knowing what the expectations are? And has been, is it more disappointing than Phoenix?

Well, I'm personally more disappointing because we had Phoenix in that big Superboost, which I haven't lost all decade. That was... All of us were aligned on, We think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense. They've all been healthy, which is the weird part. I mean, Beel's missing time, but for the most part. To me, that's almost more surprising. I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems and the fact that there's no outs. To go 20 and 36 is really hard. That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for, what's that? 27 and 55? There's a reason there in the standings. Can I push back on one Paul George thing now?

Yeah.

Because you said ultimately you're going to remember him as disappointing. I think it was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was going to be. I He made conference finals a couple of times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left. He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I would still take him over, Vince Carter and Carmelo and people like that from a success standpoint.

You take him over Melo?

I wouldn't take him as a player from... I have Melo ranked in the top 75, but I'm just saying his achievements. I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player. He made it further in the twice or three times. He was in the conference finals three times, and he was second-team, all-MBA.

If Melo had been in the East, I think he probably... If you go through all the Melo playoff stuff, for the most part, every time he lost to a team, it was a team they were supposed to lose to.

I've heard that argument, but it doesn't explain '09 when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers, and I don't feel like he had a good enough series, personally.

That's fine. In that series. All right, then you got me on the one.

Paul George was- 2019, first team on Bay. I don't know. I think you said, if you're going to compare him versus Carmelo, and I was a Carmelo defender forever. But I also feel like now Carmelo has become a little overrated in retirement, which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after you retire it or not. I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing. He was an incredible scorer. But the Denver years, pretty much all the way through until 2009, were disappointing. Then pushing his way to the Knicks making them basically trade all these assets that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that.

Yeah, there's nothing. He doesn't even have a moment. That used to be my Vince Carter argument was like, Where's the playoff moment? Because for the longest time, and I know you'll be right down the middle on this one, people were actually trying to argue like Paul pierce against Vince Carter before the '08 title, and you would just go, Come on. There's a level to you've got to have some playoff moment. For Vince, for the longest time, he didn't have anything. I mean, it might have taken all the way until he hit a corner three for Dallas. Maybe it's just because Paul George at one point was in this conversation of, Could this guy be the best player in the league? I guess you could do the same thing with Melo because early on, that's how you looked at Melo, and then the playoff part of it, I can't sit here and defend it because it's generally really disappointing. But I think for George, in some of those Pacers years, you were like, is this guy? Then it took forever for him to have a playoff series, you felt like you could trust him. That was like Hardnessk for him.

It was like, what is going on? Then they had lost Kawhi. They had that Utah series where Utah, I think, had that really good record in that two-year window. They ended up beating him. He was off They got Gober stuck in this spot where he was trying to defend everybody. He was really good. It was like, Okay, well, that's finally, there's something there to point to there a little bit. But he just needs to be... We're back to the beginning of this whole thing. He is incredibly He's so bad right now that I can't believe he's doing podcasts.

You would tell him to take a break? I would just be so embarrassed. Tell the advertisers, Paul is going to be taking a month off?

Obviously, that's not going to happen, but I would be embarrassed being a dude who comes in with the four-year max and like, Hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this Embed stuff. Maxie's numbers aren't as good because I think Maxie was pressing and trying to go like, All right, I guess I'm going to take 25 shots, and I have to raise the risk of what some of my shots are here. Is there any part of this that you would disagree with? Because even if he's older and all this different stuff, man, year one, this is what it looks like. It's just so frustrating.

Well, What would scare me for a Philly fan is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you knew it right away. I always remember Jamaine O'Neill. Jamaine O'Neill had those two years, three who's getting traded around and people are still acting like he was 24 and 10, but I don't know, it just wasn't anymore. Usually, when the stats dropped this dramatically, they don't come back. That's what we've learned. You can go on basketball reference, you can look at any of these guys. There's some level, especially if it's second after your career, when your stats go from here to here and that's just who you become, and we think it's coming back, and it just never does. I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2019. I feel like that was a really good Start to finish. It was. Even that Phoenix series, he was carrying them. It was like he had reached his... The 2019 OKC year was good. And then that quick run. Wait. I don't know what it was for Carmelo. What is it? He was third. The 2013 next season, the regular season.

Yeah, but you know what, dude? I'm sorry. I'm actually going to repush back on your pushback because- It's a double pushback? Yeah, right. Because if you look at the thunder during those post-Durant seasons, they're getting blasted out in the first round. They lost to Portland in five games the year he was third and MVP voting. He has one of those horrible, horrible game sevens where you don't even notice that he's out there. Look, we've made this joke before. It's a really simple test. Do I forget you're out on the court? Paul George should never be somebody with his skills, with that contract, with Philly's injuries this year, where you forget that he's on the court in fourth quarter, and it happens all the time.

It would be a fun podcast just to discuss Paul George's career for two hours. There's been a lot of ups and downs because the bubble was really bad. The year after was really great. You could go all over the map with it. Couple more story lines quickly.

Let me just finish this Clipper's point, though. Oh, please do. Because their defensive profile is incredible. Lawrence Frank in this front office, they deserve all the credit in the world for doing something that I just don't think a lot of teams would have done. Most teams would have given Paul George the fourth year. To your point, maybe that tells you something if they were so adamant of not doing it. But then again, it's like, well, it wasn't like he was going to play for free on the other three years. But I just laugh when I think about the Clipper's transactions this year because it's almost like, hey, who are all the players or Silo doesn't like? Let's bring him in. The hardened one they need. They need his usage, the highest usage that we've seen from him in five years. But it's not just that. They have brought in Kevin Porter Jr, who they moved on from, who you want to talk about playing your own game when you're there on top of all the other shit you can get into with him. Bones, who couldn't make it work with Jokich. Hey, man, all you had to do was cut.

All you had to do was cut, and you would have got a second contract, it would have worked out. And a ring. Mo Bamba, who is going to just forever trick teams. They brought in Ky Jones. Then they were like, While we're at it, let's add Ben Simmons. This is an absolute anti-Rusillo heater of roster movement, and they're pretty good.

I like the Ben Simmons move.

Oh, do you?

I didn't mind it. They're paying nothing for him. He costs like five bucks.

I tell you, that guy is like, All right, this Brooklyn thing's over. Then I just love that it was actually a story. We're like, Oh, we're on Ben Simmons' buyout watch, and it's like, of course, he gets to go to LA. Of course, he does.

Good for him. It's a nice team for him. Hey, Ben, just play some defense and bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the where you drive really hard and then kick it back out to somebody. That's all we need from you. Grab some rebounds.

If you want to make all your offseason videos, make them.

If I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for him, not as okay. Some quick story lines, quickly. Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again?

Awesome question. Yeah, he's still young enough, but I been worried this year? You?

34 games. He's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three. Free throw attempts down to 5. 9. They're 2311 with him, 14 and 8 without him. There's moments and flashes, but I was expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer, even though they have a good record. Could he just go on a heater the next It's 20 games and look like Jogging? But it's not the guy from three years ago, I'll tell you that much. At least not yet.

No, it isn't. I do wonder if it's the disruptive pattern for him. Hey, he's back, he's not back, but I know they'll rest him of times in there as well. It feels like a 25. I'm not there yet, but watching it- I'd like to be good for four weeks in a row. With you.

Put up a 28 and 10 for a month. So I'm watching that, and it's hard to take Mimpus seriously not knowing what we're getting from that, dude. Even though Jaron Jackson, I think, has been one of the big winners of this season. I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's an O'MBA guy for me right now.

Ja was really going to get to Orlando because Orlando never changes defense the entire time. So that was good.

Cleveland versus OKC for homecourt, 46 and 10 versus 45 and 10, taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven, and those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP, where it's SGA versus your good show. It seems like SGA is locked up. It's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point. Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons, how frisky can we get? How much friskiness should I be prepared for? Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their friskiness?

Right now- Are you suggesting a seasonal friskiness update ranking?

What do you think their record is in their last 28 games?

Last 28? I'll say 18 and 10.

19 and 9? Last 20 games, their seventh in net. Cade Cunningham, your guy, you never gave up on him. You owned the most amount of stock. You were just buying other people's stock when they were down. He's averaging 25 and 9. If we kept track of who was the best player in that game as an award, I feel like he would have about 25 of them, 20 of them, 19 of them, 22, somewhere in there. But he's been awesome. And they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough. It's a tough... It's a veteran team with some wild cards, beef stews out there. There's some elbows. They'll fucking go.

Did you see that Durian dunk the other night?

What was it?

He almost got horizontal to the ground, like at rim level. I don't know what was going on because I was watching, I forget which show I watched. Again, Sports Consultants available per diem. I guess we should say Pro-rata, but There was a show the other day I was watching where they were showing something from track and field. There was a track and field meet, and they were showing the high jumper, and he was jumping over the thing where he would... There was no Fosbury flop. He just jumped over it. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. There was no one, apparently on the set that would have been like, Hey, you realized no one would ever do high jump this way? Yeah. They didn't do it. If you had Durn out there, he'd be like, This is how you do it. Because it looked like he was trying to high jump the rim when he hit this dunk. I'm so happy. I think scholars will look back at the Zack Cram, Cade Cunningham tablets as the turning point of his career because Zack did a piece that lit him up. Hey, this is who this dude is, an incredibly high volume, inefficient dude who may not have one go-to thing that's all that great.

It feels like from that point on, he became the player we all thought he could be. I think the tablets will be a turning point on his- Interesting.

Maybe he'll get invited to the Hall of Fame when Cade goes. I actually was... I've been sketching out all NBA every week just as an exercise.

Good for you. Getting those reps in when no one's looking.

Just part of the pod process. I have Cade I think there's a real case for him for second-team All-MBA right now.

Who are your four guards?

Well, you figure Mitchell... Like SGA Mitchell, her first team, and Brunson is going to be second-team. If you're going to go at least a little traditional and say, I want to put a guard as basically the fourth guard and second team on the VA, it's between him and Edwards.

I think that's really What about Kyrie?

Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there, if you're betting on the Curry bump. I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13. But I spent five minutes on it, but I was like, I wonder where Kate is. And Kade, to me, with what he's done with Detroit, they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going and how hard he plays every night. I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards. And you can talk me into Edwards because the defense. But teams have the same record, and you could say, Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument. So anyway. Kato would have on there. So the reason I wanted to mention them, though, is because I think they're going to be a bitch in the playoffs just for one round. I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there, and they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is. It's an unusual succeed for a conference that I think is pretty awful.

Wouldn't you get past the first four?

It's amazing what shooting can do when you have a guy is going to have the ball in his hands as much as Kate. Because I've watched an Orlando game recently, and we all love Palo, I think, that established. Whenever I watch him, I just think of like, there's just not enough spacing because Sugs is out. Right.

This is too hard.

If there was ever a team that would love a prime stretch five per Zingas to balance out all the other stuff the guys could do, and it's It's not like they had this massive overhaul this offseason because all the young assets essentially are still there. Although, Kylian, how about his possessions in passing the other night? Was KLC wrong or just early?

Some are asking. Klc still... He never gave up his stock. He still...

Hold Kylian, back in the league. Just the simplicity of a little bit more spacing. It's what every team... Maybe there's just not enough shooting to go around, but every team should aspire to do that because it's just different. Your job is different now as his primary ball handler when there's just some people that you have to worry about. Look, last night's Denver game is a perfect example. The Lakers did not worry about any of those other guys all night.

A couple more subpots, then we'll go. I mentioned the All-MBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell-Brunson development can happen. But I don't know how Mitchell's... If Cleveland's going to have the best record in the East and maybe the best record in the League, he's probably going to be first-team. Anyway, worst rookie of the year race in a while. Castles minus 175 on Fandil. It doesn't even start. I went to the game Thursday, it didn't start. Tenth playoff spot, Russian roulette in the East, Orlando, seven. Miami, me eight a game and a half back, Atlanta nine at 26 and 30. And then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game. Chicago at 10, 22 and 34, Philly 20 and 36 now, or 35, and then Brooklyn 2035. Chicago, Philly, and Brooklyn, I don't think want to be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly is just going to have to stumble into it.

You realize, though, this top, they have the sixth worst record right now. Imagine if they tank and they end up with the seventh pick and it goes to See.

Which is almost what happened at Dallas that year. And then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember they were right on the edge?

Yeah, and everybody lost their minds because they didn't want to be a 10 seed when it was actually smart for them.

I was one of them.

Right here. I know. Yeah, I'm looking right at you. I was talking about you. Right here. Who gives a shit? Are you still bothered? Did you ever drive around? You're going down sunset. You're like, I'll tell you what, though. Fucking mavs a couple of years ago.

Have you done zero times? I still stand by my foundation. You know what? I look back at my playbook and The thought process was you have Luka Datchik. You always have a chance if that guy's in your team. The next year, they made the finals. Was that wrong?

I think the criticism was outsized for what they actually were doing.

I have no idea who's going to be the 10th seed And it'll be funny as if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and still might make the playoffs. You have that. Then you have Tanka Palooza, the Cooper The flag stuff is heating up. Washington has a four-win lead over everyone else. They have nine wins. New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our top six. And Utah is hilarious because every once in a while, they look really good. I watched some of the Houston game, and Houston was really trying to win. And Utah is like, not, we're going to do this and watch this, and then we'll do this. And they just look really competent from time to time. And I don't know how they're going fuck up, but they seem pretty happy where they are.

Or then they'll run a play where Keante George in that Lakers game that I was at. I almost tweeted it out. Will you remember where you were when they came out of a timeout and Keante George threw up a left-handed floater in the lane? I think it was a left-handed jumper. Maybe it wasn't out of a timeout. There was another play out of a timeout where I think they turned the ball over immediately. They have a lot of on-ball guys with confidence. I will say that about the Utah Jazz. But who do you want to have win? If you could go right now, win Because if you think Scoot and Cooper flag the next 10 years over under three and a half titles?

Trying to think. How many did the mid '80s Lakers win? They won five?

Nine finals in 12 years.

Listen, if this season, if any great thing had happened through 50 games other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen, we might be He's alive with Scoot. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive.

We might be. It's still breathing.

There's enough there, and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't where I was mentally a month and a half ago with this where it felt like a sunk cost. Now, he's gotten better.

He's getting so big.

Last thing, and Dallas got killed as we were to go in state, but they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March. Where do you have them in your head? Because that's another subplot for the last 30 games.

I'll probably like them better than the Clippers When they have everybody? Yeah, I might even like them better than Houston. Here's the thing. I liked them. I liked the healthy them. I thought they were better this year before all this trade stuff. They were always a team that I had to say, Don't lose sight of them with all of this Lucas stuff. I think Denver paid this weird Aaron Gordon price where people were looking at what they were doing or what they weren't doing, and you go, I don't really care. If Aaron Gordon is going to miss this many games, he's so important to what they do. Let's see what they look like when they get him back. Clearly, Lucas even beyond that, and 80 is even beyond that for Aaron Gordon on that part of it. I think you still have to keep it open for them, even though... I mean, imagine having three centers like this that you would feel so good about, and none of them are playing.

Well, the good news for them is it looks like they're going to keep the 10 seed no matter what happens unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which I don't think will happen. I didn't make Wemby as subplot because we already know how that's going to play out. It's such a bummer. I thought San Antonio was lurking as a party crasher for maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're going to sink back. The Wemby thing is a bummer. There's really not a lot to say about that one. If I had to bet, so Sacramento, you would have as a 10 seed, 30 games left. Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited since all the trades?

I don't think it's going to be... You think it's going to be San Antonio in the 10?

No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out, and I have Sacramento as the 10. I think that's how that plays out. Maybe Dallas passes them becomes the 10, and Sacramento is not, but I think it looks something like that.

I think it's Sacramento. I mean, at least with Sacramento, I know what I'm getting. I know.

Is it good to see Sabonis and Valentina's back for you? I've loved it. Sad to see those guys. I know you watch a lot of Lithuane and Olympic tape. All right. Any other subpots before we go that you care about?

No, I care about you sending me a deep dive thing. Even just YouTube in and out like a high school kid with no friends.

Well, and did that really I do because I have one for you because you gave me the assignment.

Mine will be quick, but I know you really want to do this, so go for it.

No, I asked you. I said we should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday about one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week because I think we both fall into a rabbit holes, either a book rabbit hole or some YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, What's that? And then you're watching seven of them. We want to talk about this Lorne Michael's book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. Somebody sent me a Reddit thread about the Silver Spring's performance by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the Dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this.

I'm not. I mean, look, who doesn't love a little Fleetwood Mac in the background? But go for it.

Well, so this is why the deep dive is so much fun. So Stevie Nicks Lindsay Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early '70s, and then they end up joining Fleetwood Mac, right? Both of them together, and they're dating, and they're in a hot relationship, and they write the first album there together. Rumors, the most famous album they made, They broke up as they're making that album. Then a couple of other people in the band broke up, too. Basically, everybody in the band is breaking up with someone they're dating in the band, and that's what the album becomes. They cut out Silver Spring, which is this song she wrote about Lindsay Buckingham. They cut it out of rumors. It's a great song. They put it on the B-side instead. It becomes one of the biggest albums ever, but Silver Spring is the B-side. She's mad about it forever because it's one of her best songs. When they do the dance, now they've broken up Lindsay's with somebody and they go on stage and they do this and they rehearse it and she's playing it the same. But then when they do it for the actual concert film, in the album, she really gets into it and starts staring him, giving him some side-eye stares as she's doing it, all performative.

I think I've seen this.

It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks by the last minute and a half of the song, and he's just playing, and now she's turning over and walking toward him. She's now like, and her eyes are starting to bulge out, and she's like, You You'll never forget. I forget the lyrics. The voice of the woman that haunt you, and she's just yelling it out, and he's just like, All right, cool. And he's just playing the guitar.

That must have made him want to get back together.

Well, and Then at the end, she's like, the lyrics in the song are, You'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you. She's like, You'll never get away. You'll never get away. She's like, and it's a thing. And it's become, ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing. Then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative, how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how they're preparing to do this comeback thing, and they might have gotten involved a little bit again because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in, and they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey-dovey, and maybe some sparks will fly, maybe not. But then by the time they do the dance, it's clear to her that he's with somebody else for whatever, because here's the piece. He has a kid the next summer. This is what the thread was evidence.

That's usually good evidence.

With somebody else. By the time they do this performance, he probably knew they were having the kid. This was when it maybe died for Lindsay. The theory was for Stevie. The theory was when she's singing this, it's within a few weeks of after she found out maybe they don't have a chance to get back together, and she's pouring it on in the thing. But it's a legendary YouTube clip. Anyway, I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the internet yesterday at 2: 30 in the morning, Boston time.

I think that's time we spent. Thank you. That's good because I'll get into a band, whether it's new or something I want to revisit, and I'll be like, All right, I'm going read about Dwayne Allman for an hour. I actually do like this stuff.

It's the '70s music stuff. Everybody's got a story that is at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Spring because people thought they never really played it that much, that's on YouTube in black and white of an original performance of her right after they broke up singing it. I watched that, too. Anyway.

Because I'll go through some talking Heads phase is I love him, and I like him so much that, again, I'm not going to get to experience it the way people got to experience when it first happened. But I always think I'm having Les Claypool of Primus on at some point here soon, who's generally considered one of the best bass players of all time. And in the beginning with Primus, you were just like, what the fuck is this? I'm so fascinated to think of what it was like when Les Claypool was like, well, I want to make the bass, the feature thing, and I'm going to sing these songs, and they're going to be a little different. My voice is probably not the most traditional rock star voice. But then once you buy into the whole thing, you just appreciate how great the music is and how great he is. But I can't imagine how people told him in the beginning, are you kidding? This isn't going to work. When I think about the talking heads, I just imagine, was New York so cool because I read that Please Kill Me punk book about just punk in New York City.

I read that. Yeah. I'm glad I read it. It was so disgusting that I couldn't... You know what I mean? I'm going to get through this. It was too grisly. It was so gross in so many spots, and I certainly don't feel like a prude, but after a while, you're like, All right, I got it. It was a weird time.

Wait, can I read you Silver Spring's letter just really quick, and then you go to your deep dive?

Yeah, but you have to sing it.

Just a couple of samplings?

You have to sing it. Now, I'm not singing.

Time cast a spell on you, but you won't forget me. I know I could have loved you, but you would not let me.

I know what that means.

Then later, I'll follow you down the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just the chance you'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. This is when she kicks it up in the performance. And then the end is, Was I such a fool? I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you. And then it just keeps going and going. Anyway, it all played out on stage, and it's amazing. And it's one of the best YouTube clips.

She screams Is your Manhor, I think, too, in there? No?

I don't remember that part.

Okay. Yeah. I referenced her, I think, at the very top. I'm reading all three volumes of Susan Wise, Bauer. The first one is the History of the Ancient World, and I just love it. She's a complete pragmatist about things, and I'm going through some of the early Egyptian dynasties, and so I just the chapters on the pyramids. I don't understand why people love conspiracy so much. I know it's Conspiracy Bill, this may be offensive to you, but usually there's a very simple, the Occam's razor What's the simplest explanation? Be like, That's probably what it is. There was another author, a Swiss author named Eric von Dynican, who wrote this book about how aliens essentially built the pyramids, and he wrote this book in the '60s, and it did really well. Then you always wondered, what the hell is going on over there in Egypt? If I had a kid, and I couldn't answer that, again, it's probably why I'm not a parent.

You don't have a kid?

No, but I feel ill-equipped. If I had a kid, it was like, what's up with the pyramids? I go, Shit, he's got me. I haven't done a ton of research, and I wanted to just go based on this Swiss authors thing from the 1960s. But Susan's explanation of it, after you read literally two pages, Bill, about the history of how the pyramids get started. One's small, it's six levels up. The next guy is like, well, mine's going to be seven. And then the next guy is like, well, I'm going to do eight. But then that one doesn't get finished. Then another one doesn't get finished. Then there's another one called the bent pyramid, where they're just moving them further away from everywhere as the previous one was built, by the way. And that That's called the bent pyramid because they realized halfway through construction, if their angles are off and it's going to be too steep and then it's not going to hold up, so they have to flatten it out a little bit. There's physical visual evidence to this day of what would be man's attempt at building these great works. She just goes like, Look, this one was small.

Then they tried to build this one. It didn't really work. This one was unfinished. Then this one's really screwed up. And yeah, they've done a good job with the corners, and it's a massive undertaking, but they just basically asked their citizens, based on the Pharaoh's power, of like, No, this is what we're doing, dude. We're building it, and we're moving these stones around, and it can take forever, but we're going to give you some water and maybe a sarong or something. Then they master, like any civilization, they become better at building these things. All it took was a couple of pages for me to go, Okay, well, that's the answer. That's it. Now you're set. Yeah. I'm going to have a kid is my point because now I can answer that question.

What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider. They were like, We're going to have a casino. It's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. Then somebody else would be like, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin. We just go and it's like being in a fantasy. Then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris. It's just going to be like going to Paris.

Except not.

Then somebody else said, I'm doing Venetian and it's going to be like going Italy. Some of these Casino stayed, and then other ones just failed miserably.

That's a really good... Well, it's not exactly because I don't think anybody's ever accused, despite some of the weird Vegas stuff of ever being built by aliens, but not being on it and going, Yeah, what is going on? Is it actually a perfect representation of all this mathematical stuff? Is it a reflection of the stars? All of these theories that I've heard over and over again. Then I never thought of the simplest approach to it is But here's the first one, here's the second one, third, fourth. By the time, I think it's the sixth or seventh one, it's like, okay, now we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years. And you go, oh, wow. All right. Yeah, That actually makes a ton of sense.

I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades, where the KD trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it. Or maybe the Luka trade will be the last one, and then we'll just get better at trades from that point on. Maybe not.

That'll never happen. No. They'll still mess up some pyramids.

They'll probably still mess up some trades.

It's 2025, and Luka just got traded. That should have been a 1975 trade.

My last time before we got- My last time before we got. It was really funny sitting next to my dad because he's an old married couple with the Celtics team because he's been watching these guys so long. So the start of the second where Jalen Tatum's out, and it's going to be like Jalen's 5 Minutes, where it's like that part of the concert where it's like, Keith Richards has a new song for you, and he's going to come out and play his song. My dad's just like, Watch this. Jalen's just He's just going to try to get some shots off. Just watch what's going to... It was like, he knows the team. He's been going to the games too long. He knows every part of it. It was just really funny because our record is 39 and 15, and we the title last year. It just proved to me, my 77-year-old dad, you're just never going to be happy with sports. He's complaining about Jalen, who's awesome.

I think because they get older, and I'm going through this a little bit with my dad, he'll complain about something sports-related, and I just go, What are you talking about, man? Do you not watch? Does your father not watch enough other games? Will he watch other NBA games in a non-Seltz life?

No. He'll watch the TNT ABC sometime, but he watches every Seltz game. Which is adorable because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams. Like, guys, like guys. He went to see Wemby right before the break, and it was his first Wemby game. It was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long. He's not wrong. You think you have them, and then he blocks it. I was like, yeah. Yeah, that's what it's like.

I think it's a common thing with guys past a certain age is they're just so much older, they're selfish. They're incredibly selfish about what they want from their sports teams. I don't know if it's a counting down the years. I'm not trying to be morbid about this, but it's-Possible. My father It can be so incredibly difficult. I went to a sporting event with him, and now, meanwhile, the guy hasn't had to pay for a ticket because I've helped him, which I'm happy to do as a payback for all the years that he took me to all the games growing up. But if the Celtics get up big, he'll want the other team to make a run for his sole entertainment.

Just to make more fun?

Yeah. I'll just be like, Hey, you can't fucking be doing that. All right? You can't be rooting on the other team for this five-minute window. He's like, I only get to a couple of a year. It's like, well, you know what? You didn't pay for anything. The seat is awesome, and you need to not root for the Cavs for six minutes just so you get not only a win, but a close one.

Yeah. Well, I like with the older fans, how cut and dry it becomes. My dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like, We need a right-hand hitter. He's going to be good in Fenway. He looked up no No stats.

None.

He had no... There was no ba-bip. There was no...

Average annual salary.

Home road splits.

These guys don't care.

No, he's like, We need a right-hand hitter. And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands, and that's the way it is.

Yeah, see, that's always the funny thing with we're terrible because we live it, but Your dad, and I don't even mean your dad or my dad, but everybody listening to this right now, your dad's advanced scouting is if the guy had two doubles in a three-game series once.

It's the Doc Rivers as a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullen that time when he hit those threes. We got to get him.

Was there any part of you that immediately looked up Bregman's deal and then compared it to the average annual salary of Muki bets?

No, I didn't do that. But I will say I didn't think it was... I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had a really awesome year since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top 100 players, and he was like, 57. I was like, Yeah, baby. Bregman. Suck me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top 100.

Well, I'm all over baseball America again. I renewed my subscription at a benefit of the years. The prospects? Yeah, Big Farm. I mean, that was my lunch reading for years and years. But Christian Campbell, The Marcella Mayor.

Derek Barton. Roman Anthony.

Yeah. The Bregman thing pissed me off just because I can't think of any transaction without Muki. I'm surprised. I would say 38-year-old Bill probably have 7,500 words on the Moukee-Luca thing.

No, you know what? I have 20 words for you right now. The Moukee Trade made me feel better about Moukee. It was a trade that was so much worse than the Muki trade, which was reprehensible and awful because at least we won the title with Muki. They never even won the title with Moukee, then they traded them for... They probably got more in the trade. But I really identified with the Mavs fans because what they were feeling after the trade was like Red Sox fans on steroids and HCH, how we felt with Muki. But at least with the Muki thing, we had time to prepare, and it seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, Oh, man, they're going to fight. This is not going to end well. Luca, they had no idea.

No, there was a lot of preparation on the Muki thing. I know it's not fair to do an average annual salary because the Bregman thing can be a one-year deal. But one of the things about these commitments for these position players that historically been so bad in baseball. With him, you figured he was going to age right. You just go like, look what his deal will be in seven years, average annual salary, compared to what you're signing him for now and then it will be as salaries keep going up. Although that's another topic that we could probably spend a lot of time on because I thought that ESPN, baseball news was crazy. It was like, wow, you guys are actually opting out of live rights. You're going to do it.

And then Manfred just daggers. We didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever he said. I couldn't believe that. But he's He's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people, and he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner, and that's why our ratings were down because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it. It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport, and I think we've known that for 10 years, and you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to sit, Oh, it's Sunday night. I'm going to watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Nobody's doing that.

If they're doing it, they're 60 years old. Do you remember when you used to do it? Because I did it religiously. I It didn't matter who was playing. It was Sunday night baseball, and I couldn't wait.

Yeah, days are over. All right, we got to go. Rosillo, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. Next Sunday, when Celtic City starts, the last segment of the pod, we're going to do some topic based off of whatever the first episode was.

That'd be good to get some Celtic content in the pod. Fire it up.

That's what the people wanted. They kept asking. Good to see you, Rosillo.

Good to see you.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle, Seridian Gahao, as as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons' YouTube channel. We have a new rewatchable that's coming on Monday night. That is a video podcast as well on Spotify. You can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for entire videos of that as well. I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the next couple of days, and I'll see you Tuesday. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in President DC. Gambling problem? Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help. Com. Call 188-789-7777 or visit ccpg. Org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma. Org, or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support, Massachusetts, or call 1-8778 Hope, NY, or text Hope, NY in New.