Transcript of S9 E3: Stay

Between 1973 and 1986, the Golden State killer terrorized Californians. He scoped out the homes he would enter. Police would find cigarettes under a tree by a window. So he was frequently there at the window in the backyard in the dark. I'm Kathleen Goldtar, and this week on Crime Story, why it took police more than 40 years to identify the Golden State killer. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts.

This is a CBC podcast.

I had some offers from people that we knew that offered to kill Ringo for me. I asked if I'd like that, and I said, no, I did not want to be involved in anything like that. I couldn't live myself if I caused someone else to die. I said, no, the justice will come to him when his time's due.

Things did not go as planned for the Crown's prosecution of Anthony Ringo for the murder of Christine Heron. This, despite Wringle's meanderings, through several consistent confessions to having killed her. So you killed Christine Heron? I need an answer.

Yes.

Okay. So how do you feel after you've told... Do you feel better that you got this off your chest? A little. A little, okay.

We do know the OPP made a mistake.

Did they tell you that? Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

When did they tell you that?

After the case was over.

And how did they justify that mistake to you?

They just come out and said there was nothing more they could do. They were very sorry. They didn't realize.

Wringle's defense lawyer, Stephen Gel, outlines police errors at pretrial for Judge RM Thompson. Investigators did not follow normal police or correct constitutional protocols.

Do you wish to say anything in answer to the charge?

In other words, to say anything.

Ringo was in police custody for 37 hours, but was only properly read his full cautions and rights once, five hours after he had been brought in. He spoke by phone to legal counsel on three occasions for less than 20 minutes in total. Wringle told police repeatedly that he had no comment. Regardless, under command of Detective Inspector Wright, police continued to interview Wringle and elicit statements.

A police officer has placed you under arrest for murder, right?

Murder of Christine Heron.

And he's given you your rights to counsel, which means he's told you you can call a lawyer. We just got off the phone with one just a moment ago, correct?

You're very aware of your rights, correct? Do you understand? I understand. Officers didn't always take notes or record interviews as the law requires. And another egregious error, again, overseen by Mark Wright, is when Officers Wright and Graham accompany Wringle in the Hanover woods to look for Christine's body. After, Wringle repeatedly tells them that a lawyer has advised him not to go. Wringle tells Graham that it is not in his best interest and that it would only hurt him more. Whereupon Graham says, That's enough. Let's get going.

What we'll do is we're going to go down to Hanover.

Okay? Do you think you'll be able to find it easy? I don't know.

I was very upset with all the mistakes they were making. They knew better. There was no need for that, especially even down at the park, nothing was recorded. Nothing was wrote down, what was said.

The attempted search for Christie's remains with Wringle took a couple of hours, even though the terrain demanded something nothing much more thorough. They recorded no audio or video with only Graham making a few notes the next day from memory.

No, that's something that anybody with common sense would have done. We do want accountability.

Right. Christie would just want the... She wouldn't want us to dwell on the anger. Christine would just want justice to prevail.

She wouldn't want it to happen to somebody else.

She wouldn't want it to happen to someone else.

Judge Thompson, in his pretrial ruling, finds that Wringle knows exactly what he's saying and makes voluntary statements on a number of occasions. Despite that, Thompson throws out all statements and actions from Wringle from the moment Detective Inspector Mark Wright arrives on the scene, including the entire search for Christine's remains on the western side of the Saugine River. Wringle's statements to his family and to Constable Lipske, however, are allowed into evidence, along with only the first police interview with Wringle, where he made no admissions. Detective Inspector Wright said he did his job by reading Wringle his rights, and it was up to him whether he wanted to invoke them. Judge Thompson, however, criticizes Wright, saying either he had no knowledge or understanding of the Charter of Rights, or he deliberately chose to trample all over Mr. Wringle's rights as a Canadian citizen in defiance of the law. What he hoped to accomplish would be pure speculation, but what is known is that his improvenant actions will undoubtedly hinder any attempt to prosecute Mr. Wringle.

I just think it's such a weird situation. You guys are paralyzed with this guy who said he killed your daughter and was going to go through the court system.

Silly mistakes. After over 20 months in jail awaiting trial, Wringle is freed after Crown prosecutor Michael Martin stays the case against him. After a year with a stay in place and no new evidence brought forward, the case against Anthony Wringle crumbles to nothing as if it never happened. Can anything be done to change that? I'm David Ridge, and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9, The Christine Heron Case, Episode 3. Stay.

It makes you wonder what the legal system when they have to let somebody go like that.

News of the Wringle case collapsing reverberates throughout Hanover and area. It was pushed off to the side.

It was big news for maybe a day or two, and then it just went to the wayside again.

No idea.

What would make somebody say they did that? I have no idea about that either.

They didn't do that.

I have no idea. When you hear stuff at the time on the radio, he said, she said what happened, but it still, I can't comprehend that.

From what you know about Ringo, how do you think that situation might have played out?I.

Have no idea.I.

Have no idea how they met.

I still don't.

And Christie's mother, Maryanne, and her stepfather, Sean, struggle with many questions.

He was older than her. Christine was 15 at the time, and Anthony Wringle, I Lee was 24. I did not know where Anthony Wringle myself. I don't believe anyone in the family knew Anthony. I don't recall Christine knowing Anthony Ringo. So how their paths crossed is unbeknown to us.

This is where I came into the process and where my investigations began, back in 2010 and 2011, picking up the pieces.

So that's the ruling of the superior court on the case of Anthony Wringle, September sixth. And the judge is...

Thompson? Thompson.

Yeah.

Nothing had happened in the case until Wringle came forward 11 years after Christie disappeared. Then the case against him had failed, and Wringle was free. Maryanne and Sean weren't told much, except that Wringle had said he killed Christine.

Have either of you ever wanted to go talk to Anthony Wringle, or did you talk to him?

Oh, I asked to, and the police wouldn't let me. Oh, I definitely wanted to. There's no reason he can't tell us what happened. So I mean, why not come forward If he didn't mean to and it was accidental, okay. We just want to know what actually happened. Right from day one, I wanted to speak with him, and they wouldn't let me, the OPP. I said, Well, at least ask him. Maybe he'd be willing to sit down and talk to me. And I know his sister and his mother, anytime they see me in a store, they left. But, yeah, to this I still want to sit down and talk to him.

Maybe as we go on, I can tell you a couple of things I did. Maybe I shouldn't have because I was upset.

So tell me.

You know what I did? Yeah. He lived with his mother, right? My little red neon with the flames on it and whatnot. There's a written mural on it, and that car is a one of a kind. And there's no way he could have mistaken it for no one else but me. I deliberately went over there a few times, and I sat there and watched that house. And what was I after? To hurt him? No. But I wanted him to know that we were not about to forget not for one minute. And then the OPP told me, goes, You do that anymore. We're going to have to charge you with stalking, Sean, and you're going to be in jail. So I was told, Stay the hell away. We're just trying to understand what happened and why. And did he do it? Yeah, that's where we're at. Did you do it? Why? If you did do it.

So, Marion, tell me what we're doing this morning.

This morning, we're going to see if Anthony Wringle will speak to me. Just try to get some answers out of him. If he actually did something to Christine or why he confessed if he didn't. Just find out what was in his mind at that time.

What are your anticipations of what he might say?

I'm hoping he'll explain what happened to her and maybe show that he's sorry for what he did. Just see what he says or if he'll even talk at all to me. I want to talk to him ever since they first arrested him. And if he didn't, why would he confess to something that he didn't do? We've never had any answers to any of our questions to know what really happened.

I I'm truly hoping that Anthony Wringle will speak with Maryanne. Out of human decency, he tried to explain what he did Like I said earlier in other times, if it's an accident, please try and explain and help us understand what happened and why. It's been a long time for us even to be able to try to approach Anthony Wringle. So I hope we have a positive outcome today.

The address I have for Wringle is, I think, that of a relative, his sister. Normally, when I want to go to someone's house and knock on the door, I will want to scope things out a bit to see how the place works. So that's what we do. Mariana is eager to get in front of Wringle and because of her calm and straightforward demeanor, she may be able to get him to say something. It's a big step for her to take.

It's going to be on the right. I'll tell you when it's up here somewhere. I go a bit faster, Sean. They don't want to have any suspicion. It's going to be on the right, so we're just going to look at it quickly on the way by.

Maryanne is calm in the back seat, and Sean seems like a rock behind the wheel. There it is right there.

Rikos, white cat. Right behind that gray van is a good spot.

It's pretty close to your grandparents It's a little place, Mary.

Yeah.

Let's pull in there.

Yeah, that's it.

Remember, when you talk to Maryanne, it's what he said, right? Not why did you kill her, but why did you say you killed her?

Yes.

So pull right up behind that van if you can. Hang on a sec. That's good there, Sean. Let's go.

Maryanne and I carefully leave the van and roll the sliding door shut behind us. Sean pulls ahead a short distance. He's staying behind, afraid of how he may react in Ringo's presence. Maryanne is already moving with purpose toward the house, and I catch up. You're good.

Front door, side door.

Side door.

A woman who appears to be in her late 40s, hair pulled back, pink T-shirt, opens the door and pokes her head out, trying to keep the screen door closed enough to keep her dog in.

Hi. Hi. Is Anthony home?

He's still sleeping.

See? Could you wake up? I just wanted to talk to him. Okay.

Can I... Who are you?

It's Maryanne.

Maryanne.

Restful.

Do I know you?

I don't think so. I don't think we've ever met. Hi. The name sounds...

I see you haven't waked him. I saw.

I just want to talk to Anthony for a little bit. About what? I just want to ask him some questions to do with Christine.

I'm going to say no.

Can we leave it up to him and see what he'll talk to me?

I already know he'll say no.

Just ask him and see. That's his sister.

That's his sister?

Yeah.

The door closes and almost immediately, so does the deadbolt. But once Ringo's sister realized who Maryanne was, I sensed a change, and perhaps even some sympathy added in her gaze and tone.

She's very protective of him, so I don't think she'll let him down.

After a few moments, Ringo's sister returns once again.

No. No, not at all? No. Has he talked to you about it at all? Does he? Yeah. Because I just need some answers. That's all I'm after. I'm not here to be nasty or anything like that.

I don't know what to tell you.

So he doesn't talk about it at all? No, he doesn't. And he won't come talk to me? I'm not here to accuse or anything, just trying for my own self. I understand you want closure.

But no.

Do you think he's in the future ever? To sit No, don't talk to me. Just talk to me. No. No?

Like I said, he didn't even come to the door.

He's not afraid or anything. He's afraid of me. I doubt it.

What's there to be afraid? Why is it involved? What's there to be afraid of if he's not involved, Wringle's sister says, over the barking dog.

That's all I'm at. It's just to talk to him, to get some peace for myself so that I can go on.

I work for CBC.

I'm doing a documentary about the murder of Christine Heron. It is really just about information, and it's not about accusations. You can understand that it was a pretty difficult case, and Anthony confessing to murdering Christine is a pretty substantial part of it. Did he ever confess anything to you or I understand he confessed to other family members on that night in August?

Yeah, that was other family members. Not to you?

Not me. So Well, how has it affected you, though? You must have questions of your own as to why.

Yes, but I'm in the same situation. If I want to find anything out, I got to speak to his lawyer.

He won't just actually talk to you. He will not talk to me. You're his sister, right? Yes. Yeah.

He's lucky he's got a sister who's so protective and nice to him because- Protective?

I don't know if I'm being- Well, protective.

I mean, just being and things like that. But anyway, I appreciate your time. And I hope we can sit down and talk to him because it'll help immensely this family.

Just give me a minute, and I'll tell him that you're with her. Okay.

That's not going to help.

She was in court with him, her and the mother.

No.

Okay. Thanks so much for your time. Okay. Running up and down and all that. Disturbing your dog. See you later. Thank you.

We head back to the van in silence.

No, no go. We tried our best, but we couldn't get him to... There we go. So what do you think of that, Maryanne?

I think he's afraid he's going to say the wrong thing and come up in charges again. I think he's afraid.

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Do you ever have any left? No. No?

At Christie's Grandma Sacks' place again. Grandma has two white refrigerators, and we're standing between them at a round wooden kitchen table where she has spread some pictures of Chrissy. Grandma listens intently as Maryanne describes the attempt to speak to Wringle.

When we went to Anthony's place, he's living with his sister. It's where they are, a couple of houses away from where grandpa used to live. But he was sleeping, and she told us right off the bat that he wouldn't want to talk to us. I think she's protecting him. Yeah, same as his mom did. Yeah. But no, he wouldn't come up and talk to us at all. Disappointed. That he wouldn't come talk to us, at least, faces. Would have been nice. Keep trying.

The conversation soon turns to what the family has read about Wringle and documents I provided or heard coming out of the pre-trial. In 1993, when the investigation into Christie's case was just getting started, Ringle actually worked for the Hanover Police, washing police cruisers. But he lost that job after he followed a woman home and went into her house. He happened to be carrying a starter pistol. This was also in May 1993, about a week after Christie disappeared. The woman barricaded herself in a bathroom until her boyfriend arrived and pushed Ringle, telling him to get the hell out of the house.

About him stalking this girl up there.

Ringle served two years probation for possession of a firearms. His record It also shows two counts of mischief in 1998 for smashing car windows and slashing tires.

Check, check, check.

It's the day before the anniversary of Christie's disappearance. I'm not giving up just yet.

Oh, hi.

Back at the sister's house, this time alone. There's cameras rolling in the van, tripods ducted to the floor, backup audio pinned to my shirt, and I'm recording with a phone in my hand, hoping again for Ringo.

Hi, how are you? I'm good. Is this Unit 2 or Unit 1 here for this house, or is this one unit?

It's a little both.

Why? What do you need? I'm looking for Anthony. He's down at his trailer right now, actually. Okay, where is that? If you go down to the park and just follow the road around. The park, just like there's an arena or something down here? Yeah. I saw the arena, but is the park next to it? It's actually back in behind it. Oh, okay.

So if you follow the road right around it, there's a change house on the left, and his is the first fifth wheel you come to.

It's like a little white trailer or something? Yeah, it's a fifth wheel trailer. Okay, good. Let's go talk to him. Thanks. It's a trailer.

Tucked in behind the arena in Chesley, Ontario, a small town close to Hanover, there's a trailer park compacted around a circular tree-lined road. I slowly begin to drive around, and based on the few directions as I just heard, I pull in at what I think might be the right fifth-wheel trailer. But no one's home. Not sure if this is Wringles' place or not. I try the next one. Nothing here either. One more. A white trailer called a Travelair with a green lawnmower and a woodpile. Hi.

How are you? Are you Anthony? Yeah.

Anthony Wringle in a blue cap and dirty gray T-shirt standing before me, rubbing at bleary eyes.

I'm Dave Ridge, and I work for CBC. I wanted to ask you about your confession regarding the murder of Christine Heron on August, 2004. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Why you why you confessed to that murder? No?

I can't answer that question.

No?

Ringo sits down in the stoop. The door that he's holding open with one hand blocks him from the view of the van cameras, but my phone roughly captures him as he continues to stare at me.

It seems to have taken a lot out of you. You went in there, the police had you in there for a little while, and then you had to go to jail, right? For a couple of years. It's just tomorrow is the anniversary, the May 18th, tomorrow. So I'm just wondering if you could talk to me a little bit your experience with that. No? No. I was putting that all behind me. Did you know Christine? No, I don't. You didn't know her? Did you kill Christine?

Ringo shakes his head but seems subdued by the question. There's a picnic table next to the door, and I find myself settling back onto it to try to relax the tension I've introduced, if that's possible, but also press further.

Why did you confess to her murder? What happened that day? It seems like such a strange thing to do. No explanation? No. Does it seem like a long time ago to you?

I know.

I noticed I was searching for you on the Internet, and I noticed that your mother has passed. I'm sorry to hear that, Loretta. She died on the highway. I'm sorry to hear that. And my understanding is that you had confessed to your mom that night on August 22nd, 2004, about killing Christine Heron. And you confessed to your cousin and your cousin's boyfriend. And then you went and confessed to an OPP officer.

Ringle shuffles in the doorway uncomfortably, says nothing discernible.

It just seems like... Do you ever think about that time? I mean, you were in jail for two years because of your confession. Where did you sleep? You just woke up. Where did you go to jail? Where were you held? Did you see Christine in the park that day? Didn't even see her down at the park? No. Where the river is there? I was down there today. The river looks pretty high. It doesn't look like you could get over it. Do you have a phone here? Is there a way to communicate with you? Not here, no. No? Okay. What are you up to these days? What do you spend your time doing here in Chesley?

Not much.

Did you find your life changed after your confession? A little bit. How do people treat you around here? I just wonder what it would take for me to go and confess to something I do if I didn't do it. I don't understand what would have happened in your head that night that made you feel that you had to confess to a murder that you say you didn't do. Have you been interviewed by the police since then? No. They haven't come to talk to you since you got her to jail? No.

Just trying to stay normal.

Try and stay normal? Yeah. You never met Christine Haram before in your life? No. How did you know her name? How did you know to say that you had killed her? Because she had disappeared in 1993, and then you confessed to her murder to the officer on August 22nd, 2004. That was quite a few years later. It was like, years later. You must have remembered the name from somewhere. You ever talked to anybody in your family about that time? No. At that party on August 22nd, 2004, where you told your mom and your cousin and your cousin's boyfriend that you murdered Christine Heron, did they ever talk to you about why you had said that to them? Did your mom ever talk to you about why you said that? They just let it go. They just said, Oh, Anthony, he's just saying that. Is that what they said? No? They didn't say a word to you. Did they come visit you in prison? They had people come in. Your Mom came to see you? Yeah. Did you have a chance to tell your mom before she died what you say that you didn't kill Christine?

Did you ever tell her that? No. So she died thinking that you might have murdered her? Pardon? I didn't talk about it. No, you didn't talk about it. Nobody. Nobody? Any of your friends ever come and talk to you about it? No. Christine disappeared somewhere, just never came home. Her mother's wondering what happened. She doesn't know either. Well, I thank you for your time. Maybe I'll come and talk to you again sometime.

Yes. Take care. I pull away and park a short distance away to collect myself. I felt surprised that Ringo would engage for so long like he wanted to talk or needed to. It's hard to determine if someone is being evasive in the short term, but I remember feeling that just below the surface, there was much more to be pulled. Something catches my eye, and I look toward the arena I'm parked near.

There it is.

It's Ringo on a bicycle, and he's coming toward me. At first, I think he wants to talk more, and I roll down the passenger window, but it startles him. I think he was trying to watch me from afar, Ringo trying to do a bit of his own investigative work. He races by, and I try to drive up beside him.

Hey, Anthony.

But Ringo keeps moving and disappears down the road with whatever knowledge he may carry. What happened to 15-year-old Christine Heron?

One man said he knows- A few months later, I've edited my 20-minute TV documentary for the CBC together, and it goes to air across the country.

It's called Confession to murder. Police. Tonight, investigative filmmaker David Ridgeon shows us what happened and confronts the man who once made a confession to murder. In it, I present everything I find about the case. It's thickly forested and swampy on private land across the Saugine River from Hanover's Public Park, one of Christine's favorite places. I go through police malfeasance, the stay, attempts to speak to Wringle, and as much of his story as I can. According to the available documents, including interviews with Wringle, police testimony, and other courtroom statements, this is what alleged to have happened the day Christine Heron went missing. And then we wait and watch, ready to act again. Hoping the documentary will move the investigation forward.

I had to learn patience over the years.

Yeah.

I have a lot of patience now with the case. You learn it over the years. You learn how to deal with it your own way so that you can move on. But it never goes away. It's today is the same as it was that day for me. It's still there. Just deal with it a different way.

Somewhere later, the guilt will get to him and eat away at him day by day by day. That I'll slowly eat on him and bring him down where he just can't take it anymore, where he's compelled to finally tell the truth.

He's going to know that everybody's keeping an eye on him.

So How are you going to set your patience to work and with regards to Anthony?

He's doing it away patiently. We'll see her later. Justice will happen. I believe that.

I believe it, too. On all the cases I've worked on, I've seen firsthand that sometimes the only difference between a so-called cold case and a conviction is time. And this time, the patience pays off. Nine months after my documentary is released, Anthony Wringle is arrested again for the murder of Christine Heron. Coming up on Someone Knows Something. That's the one that you went to jail for. This one.

Yeah.

An inside look at Ringo's re-arrest and how it all happened. You get it, though?

The one that's been gone for 15 years?

That's the one that you went to jail for.

Yeah.

We'll put it this way.

This story here, you and me, till the day I die, fucking doesn't leave me to it.

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgein. The series is also produced by Katie Wires. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Canal is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, and Arif Nourani is the Director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram at cbcpodcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC podcast's channel on YouTube. If you're looking for another series to listen to, check out Understood from CBC. Understood goes behind the news headlines, from the Fall of a Crypto King to Inside Pornhub. Find Understood from the CBC everywhere you get your podcasts. Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Someone Knows Something, or you can binge listen the whole series, Ad Free, by subscribing to our channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc. Ca/podcasts.