Transcript of Fine Line Of Lunacy - Wenham, Massachusetts

This week in Wenham, Massachusetts, a doctor and his wife seem to have the perfect life until deep secrets start to emerge, leading to one of them being brutally murdered and the other becoming an absolute public sideshow. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay!

Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigalo, and I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

Mm-hm.

On another wild, crazy, insane edition of Small Town Murder. As usual, buckle up, because it's a crazy one this week.

Sure.

We don't even have to say that anymore. They're always crazy.

Yes.

I'll tell you what.

Yes.

Uh, before we get started, though, I would like to tell you, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com.

Ooh.

That is it.

Oh my God.

This week, for Crime in Sports, we are gonna we're we're talking, uh, we called it, uh, When Pilots Go Wrong.

Yeah.

It's basically, um, small plane incidents at sporting events that have happened over the years.

Yeah.

And there's a remarkable number of them. It's those little planes are dangerous when you want them to fly around and do specific things.

Yeah.

And it's crazy stuff. And then for Small Town Murder, because it's that month, we are gonna talk about scary movies.

Oh God, are they so good.

The best ones, the ones we like, the ones we hate.

Terrible ones.

Um, there's some terrible Jimmy is very up on the modern horror genre also, so he's gonna have a lot to say about that. Um, so that's patreon.com/crimeinsports, and that's where you get all of that. And in addition to that.

Mm-hm.

That's not enough to give you for f only $5 a month, but we give you.

Yeah.

Everything we put out, both Small Town Murders, Crime in Sports, and your stupid opinions, all ad-free with your Patreon.

Ad-free?

It's ad-free, Jimmy. You can't beat it.

Wow.

I'll tell you that. Then at the time, I love how Jimmy reacts like he's never heard it before. Really? Are we doing that? No. James, you're out of your money.

Taking money right out of our pockets?

Come on, man.

Wow.

What are we doing? My kids have to eat, James. What are we doing?

Incredible.

And then for, uh, you also get a shout-out at the end of the show too.

You bet.

So that sounds like fun. If that sounds good to you, it's gonna be a good time.

That's what it is.

But either way, we have to do the disclaimer.

Yeah.

This is a comedy show, everybody.

It is.

This is a comedy show. We are comedians. We are.

Mm-hm.

Uh, definitely gonna talk about murder because that's the name of the show. Death is gonna happen, and we have to make jokes. And you go, "Well, how do jokes go with murder? That sounds weird." Not really. That's the thing. There's plenty to make fun of around a murder. That's, you know.

Yeah.

You just don't make fun of the actual murder. It's super simple.

Yeah.

And our rule to live by is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Why, James?

Because we're assholes.

But?

But we're not scumbags. Super simple.

Yeah.

See how that works? So if that sounds good to you, you are gonna hear one hell of a wild story, like usual.

Mm-hm.

If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, uh, number one.

Please.

How'd you get here? And, uh.

Oh, please.

Number two, give it a shot. You might like it, but, uh.

There's that.

If you don't, no complaining later. That's what we're saying.

Don't say a goddamn thing.

Don't say shit. We're not interested. So that said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back.

Yeah.

What do you say here? Let's go arms to the sky, deep breaths, clear the lungs, and let's all shout.

Shout.

Shout.

Out.

Ah, thank you.

And give me murder.

Let's do this. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Okay.

All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right.

Yeah.

We're doing it. We're going to Massachusetts, where.

It's a nice place.

It is, where we will be going.

Mm-hm.

Next month. We November the 14th.

Yeah.

We'll be in Medford, right outside of Boston, at the Chevalier.

Okay.

So get your tickets now. Those are the fun, fun, uh, theater, and we like it. So this is Wenham, Massachusetts. If you're not from Massachusetts, you might not know how to spell that. It is, uh, W-E-N-H-A-M, so Wenham.

Oh.

That's how they do it there. Wenham, Mass.

Where the fuck is that?

Uh, Eastern Massachusetts, over by the coast north of Boston. It's about.

Oh.

40 minutes to Boston, about an hour and a half to Portland, Maine, and.

That's gotta be so nice.

It's a nice area. It's a it's a.

Yeah.

Like a wealthy area. It's a nice area like that.

Oh, yeah.

And about an hour to Sharon, Massachusetts, which is our last Massachusetts episode, number 697, The Perverted Professor.

Oh, yeah.

It's, um, always smart people when we do Massachusetts episodes. It's always like.

Probably perverted people too.

Perver oh, they're per complete perverts, but they have a medical degree. You know what I mean? Like, or something of that, a law degree. There's always.

Yeah.

Very educated people up here. It's hard to find it's hard to find real trash, like, you know, trailer episodes in Massachusetts.

You gotta go to Wenham.

Yeah.

And that's just in Boston.

You have to have to go to Western Mass to get that, and Central Mass.

Or or that.

So this is in Essex County, area code 351 and 978. Can't hold them with one area code here.

Right.

Uh, little bit of history. It was settled in 1635, this town.

Oh, yeah.

It's been a minute. Yeah, it's been a while here. Officially incorporated.

This area is where they ca where they showed up?

Oh, this is one of the first areas. I mean, it's right on the water, the port, the whole deal.

Yeah.

Um, this w town was officially incorporated in 1643. So it's been a.

Wow.

Been a long time here.

Actual town.

Actual town, uh, Wenham, uh, before, you know, this was even thought of as a independent country. Um, so before that, it was home to the Ogiwam people. They're from the Eastern Algonquin tribe. And, um, their numbers were greatly reduced before this town was settled around 1617. They're pretty sure from smallpox, so we, we understand how that happened.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's that was kinda how a lot of that went down. We came over with stuff that they're, you know, had no immunity for.

Those were covered in terrible things.

That was it. Yeah. Um, now, Wenham was originally a part of Salem, actually, with the witch trials and all that.

Oh.

Yeah. So that was originally it's the same area over here.

Huh.

Um, a matter of fact, Salem's minister, Hugh Peters, who I'm sure was a lovely man, not having women murdered or anything like that.

Yeah. A man of the cloth.

Oh, absolutely. He preached to a group on a hill by the Great Pond around 1638 to encourage settlement in the area. He's like, "You.

Hey.

You can even kill women.

Yeah.

It's totally fine.

Ah.

As many as you want. We drown them, we.

Fire.

We drown them, we burn them. It's well, it's amazing. There's all sorts of stuff to do.

Yeah.

Um, so 1774, this is right before the Revolutionary War.

Yeah.

The town voted to select 15 men as minute men. So they selected.

Oh.

15 people to, you know, be their guys.

Volunteer.

And, uh, from that time on, loyalists to the crown, to England, were not welcome in Wenham. If you were you wanna you don't wanna.

Fucking A.

You don't wanna come through here wearing a red coat. You're in deep shit.

How about it.

You're gonna come for you. Um, in 1909, a steel magnate named Henry Clay Frick bought, uh, he bought the Iron Rail property. It's a big.

Mm-hm.

Home, uh, that's still there. It's a historic thing.

Yeah.

Uh, so that his daughter Helen could create a vacation home for the mill girls.

Oh.

Chicks that work at the mill. I don't know. They need to go on vacation. They need to have ladies' night. And so we gotta build them a place.

Yeah.

That's.

Gotta do it with this nickel draft.

Yeah, something. Hey, it's ladies' night tonight, everybody. Come on in. Um, Helen Frick transferred the Iron Rail vacation home to the Girls Clubs of America in 1954. Then the town of Wenham bought the house in the '70s, and it's like a.

Yeah.

Museum now, basically.

I've heard of the Girls Clubs of America.

Yeah, the Boys and Girls Clubs. So this is just the Girls Club.

Yeah.

Hey, no boys allowed. If they get in here, it's gonna get gross. There's gonna be chips on the floor.

Oh, yeah.

Bad stuff. Uh, reviews of this town, I've never been to this town, so I'm not sure.

No.

Um, it has 4.1 stars on Niche, and.

Not bad.

There's no there's no reviews less than three stars.

They're they like it.

So it's they like it. Uh, here's five stars. We lived in Wenham for 23 years. It is a beautiful, safe, family-friendly town with excellent public schools and many private day schools nearby. Although Wenham is not on the ocean, there are many gorgeous beaches nearby. Yeah, it's so it's close to the ocean.

Right.

Um, the town has a commuter.

It's kind of the life to have up there, isn't it?

It's not bad. It's pretty cool. Um, I, I like that.

What do you.

North of Boston, going to Maine, that's, that's, I think.

Yeah.

That whole.

But inland.

Lifestyle.

Like, 5, 10 minutes is the is the answer. 'Cause once you're on the beach.

Oh.

Fuck, man. You don't wanna be around there in the summer. It's so ugly.

Oh, around like a tourist beach. I'm like.

Yeah.

Yeah, I wanna be by the beach all the time.

Any beach is a fucking tourist beach.

Yeah, yeah. No, I'd love to be by the beach, just not where there's people. I don't want a tourist beach.

Yeah.

That's what I mean. I'd like go, like, up, up the coast a little in Maine to where it's less populated.

Right.

A Mass beach.

That's better.

It's just, uh.

Too much.

August to, to.

Yeah.

I mean, you know what I mean? Mid-August, it's just flooded with the worst people.

It's just a bunch of guys with red hair punching each other. That's all it is.

Yeah, yeah.

It's drinking in the sun and punching each other till it gets dark. That's, that's Boston beaches.

Yeah.

I went to a bar out on the beach out there that had no cell service. They had a, uh, a phone in on the beach that you call for a cab.

Oh, yeah. You call for a cab.

It is the sc it was the scariest.

Yeah.

I mean, beautiful beach. Scariest bar I've ever been to in my life.

I bet.

Most frightening people.

That's it.

And, and there's no you can't call for help.

No. We call that phone. Uh, cab no, not a cab company. Do you.

No.

Do you have an ambulance over there too?

You the words I'm hearing are atrocious.

Yeah, this is just red heads punching each other. And then if you go to the Jersey Shore, it's just Italian guys punching each other. So it's.

Yeah.

You know.

But at least there's cell service.

Either way. Yeah, at least there's cell service.

You know.

And they're they can go out in the sun without so much SPF also, which helps. I think they're just angry at the burn they've all received that day. Uh, the town has a commuter rail and is only a 30-minute drive to Boston. A little more than that, but that's fine. I guess not have they drive. Uh, don't be surprised the people don't be surprised oh, I guess two sea people is what they're trying to say, on horseback going down the street. The town has a has a huge equestrian community 'cause it's a bunch of rich people. Rich people love horses. And the.

Wow.

Miopia Hunt Club borders Walnut Road. My favorite parts of Wenham are Main Street and Larch Row, so many lovely historic, uh, homes and stunning lots of land. It's a pretty old little town.

Sounds sounds like I can't afford it. That's what it sounds like.

It's that's well, yeah. It's, it's fucking pricey. This this area, anything outside of Boston that's, like, real nice, super pricey.

Yeah.

Four stars. Wenham is a cute suburb of Boston, located three miles from the North Atlantic Ocean. It's perfect for retired couples and those wanting peace within a tight-knit community.

Oh, it sounds great.

That sounds amazing. Uh, four stars. The houses are very pretty, and most look pretty expensive. Yeah, I think that's the.

Right.

That's the key. And now, this is the worst review I could find of the town. Uh.

Huh.

Three stars. It's a great place, a great quiet place to live. It's family-oriented and very safe. It is a bit pricey, but it's worth it if this is your kind of town. Uh, the schools are ne uh, nearby are very academically inclined. Well, I would hope they would be their schools. That's.

Yeah.

That would help. Um.

And the taxes here are outrageous, and that's where most of it goes.

That's yeah, 'cause they say they're nice roads and schools. That's what happens.

Yeah.

There are many parks and small businesses as well. That's a bad review.

Wow.

A little pricey. Uh, people in this town, 5,006. Not many. It's a pretty small town.

Very small. Yeah.

Um, this is a wild stat for a town of 5,000 people. 55.2% women.

Huh.

I don't know what did a lot of divorces and they got the houses. I'm not sure what happened here, but.

It's gotta be.

It has to be. Uh, median.

45% men?

Yeah, 40 not even. 44.8.

Wow.

That's low. Uh, median age 34, uh, here. A lot of kids too, a lot of families and a lot of young people.

And young?

A lot of young people here too. Um, family here, 39.6% married, so not that much. Only 4% single with children. Meanwhile, it's married with children super high. So.

Yeah.

That's very low. Uh, race in this town, 89.7% white, 1.9% black, 2.9% Asian, 4.7% Hispanic. Um, very it's 57% religious here. 50/50 is the normal.

Yeah.

And, um, no shocker here, everybody.

Catholic, yeah.

48.1% of the people here are Catholic. It is as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North.

Oh.

Everywhere. 1.2% Jewish.

My God.

My God. It's been so long.

That's high.

We gotta remember the words here. It's been so damn long.

Yeah.

We gotta remember to sing our song. That's it's so shocking. It's a well, let's get it to it here. Havanagila.

Nagila.

Havanagila.

Nagila.

Havanagila. I don't know the words. Hey.

Hey.

All right. Let's do this here. Uh, unemployment rate is low here.

Yeah.

Um, pretty low, like half the national average, so.

How about that?

Which, I mean, there's tons of jobs. Boston's right there.

Yeah.

Yeah. If you can't find a job there, it seems like that's on you. There's plenty of stuff going on. I don't know.

I need to work.

I don't live there, but median household income here, strap in for this, $154,375 median.

Wow.

You gotta be paid to live in this fucking town, man.

150.

150. Where do you hear the home cost? Cost of living here, 100 is regular average.

Yeah.

Here, it's 131. So high. And the very high thing is housing. Median home cost, $868,300 median.

800,000.

Almost $900,000 median.

Oh, boy.

So if we've convinced you, damn it, you've done very well for yourself, I guess, and you want.

Everybody died and they left you everything.

Wow. You want smooth roads and nice schools. We have for you the Wenham, Massachusetts Real Estate Report. Okay. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for 2,180, which is well above the national average.

Yeah.

Um, first house, three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,016 square feet. Um, it's nice. It's surrounded by woods in a leafy little neighborhood. Uh, 2.34 acres, so nice little amount of land there. Um, I mean, it's nice inside. Hardwood floors, fireplaces. It's a nice little house. Nice little.

Sure.

You know, family house. $750,000.

For two and a half acres, that's not bad.

I mean, for there, I guess it's not terrible.

In New England.

Um, they just had a $69,000 price cut, actually, on that one. So, you know, looking to get in there.

It's it's 2,000 square feet or 16,000?

2,000.

2,000.

2,000 2,016 square feet.

That's not so bad.

No. Well, here's one that's four-bedroom, three-bath. Uh, very nicely done on the inside. Looks like it was recently redone completely on the inside. Otherwise, it's a your basic kinda, you know, that house kinda the siding and the, you know, few windows up top. Your basic suburban East Coast house, four-bedroom, three-bath, 3,217 square feet, one.

That's a hell.

1.9 acres or 1.09 acres. So an acre.

One acre.

$1,250,000.

Ah.

It's gotta be in a real nice neighborhood, I would imagine.

Million and a quarter for I guess 3,000 square feet is quite a bit of housing.

It's a lot of house. Yeah. Um, and then finally, a five-bedroom, six-bath, T-bowl for each and every B-hole over here.

And one to spare.

Um, 6,200 square feet.

Fuck.

Very big house. Nice house. Uh, inside, looks brand new. Built in 1997, so it's not an old.

Wow.

Old house. 2.59 acres of land. $1,749,000 for that.

Wow. That's so much money, but I gotta be honest.

That's so much money.

That sounds.

In ground pool.

Really affordable for Massachusetts.

For Massachusetts for this too. This is like a mansion in ma it's a huge house.

6,000 yeah, 6,000 square feet for a sub two.

That's insane.

That sounds amazing.

That's insane. That's a lot of house and almost three acres too. Um, so yeah, that's not bad there. Anyway, uh, things to do in this town. Let's find out. The 41st Annual Essex Clam Fest.

Fucking A.

It's Clam Fest, everybody.

55% women.

How many jokes are being made.

Yeah.

By these fucking mooks.

Every day is Clam Fest.

Yeah. Hey, I'm going to Clam Fest. Ah, who's coming to Clam Fest with me? Just a constant.

Wow.

Look at all these clams. Uh, and it's an arts and crafts festival as well.

All right.

It's being a Clam Fest, uh, held annually here. Uh.

'Cause that's what clams do.

That's what they do. They gather and do arts and crafts, apparently, according to New England here. It's 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM in the park.

Wow.

Come taste Cape Ans' finest chowders from noon to 1:00 and vote for your favorite. So we got a contest. I like that. Although the highlight of the day is the chou uh, chowder tasting competition, there's also a great variety of activities, including arts and crafts, vendors, live entertainment, and of course, food vendors, I assume, with.

You bet.

Clam themes here. Um.

Right.

So there's lots of stuff to do. Uh, let's see. 11:00 to noon, we got the demonstration by the canine demonstration by the Essex Police Department.

Right. They're gonna put on a piece of burlap and have it go by the man's arm.

Right. Give it a treat. Uh, either that or have them find something. They do that sometimes.

Oh, yeah.

They do loaves.

Yeah.

But I don't know what that has to do with clams. Uh.

Uh, nothing.

Nothing at all. Okay. Uh.

This is showing you that we've got a dog that'll help keep you safe if you have coke in your ass.

That's it. The beer truck opens at 12:00. That'll be a big, uh, crowded area there.

Yeah.

Uh, chowder competition. We have face painting and reptiles here as as well. Then.

Yeah.

From 12:00 to 2:00, the coveted noon spot, high noon at the park. You get live music by you know they're from the area. Uncharted Waters. W-A-T-A-H-S. Uncharted Waters.

Yes.

They know what they're they know their craft.

Is it is it a bunch of John Waters covers? Is that what it is?

It is.

It's gotta be.

What are they gonna do? Fucking Pink Flamingos? That's a movie. How do you how do you how do you cover a movie? That'd be wild.

I'm not John who am I thinking of?

Oh, I don't know. A serial mom.

Goddamn it. It's a guy from a.

Reenact serial mom.

No, there's a guy from a band last name Waters. Goddamn it.

Oh, Roger Waters?

That's it.

Yeah, Pink Floyd.

There it is.

You talking about now?

Yeah.

Is that Pink Floyd or the Who? One of those two? I don't remember.

I think it's Pink Floyd.

One of those two. Yeah. So anyway, you got Uncharted Waters coming to play.

Yeah.

Um.

Sure.

And then Brick House will be there from 2:00 to 4:00.

Okay.

But.

All right. Do some R&B.

R&B something, maybe.

Some Motown.

Yeah, that's all I can think of is she's a Brick House.

Yeah. Got it.

Maybe not. I don't know. Uh, then in the middle of their set, though, they're gonna have to maybe it's during their little intermission, they're gonna have to step back.

Oh.

For a moment from the microphone because the competition, chowder competition, the winners were gonna be announced at 3:00.

Get outta here.

Oh, yeah. No shit here. That's right. The clam.

We're gonna break up the music to announce chowder winners.

That's right. The c that's the whole festival. The clam chowder.

I think that's the whole point of this, I guess.

It is. The clam chowder competition will take place on the tennis courts, which is the strangest thing I've ever heard for.

I guess 'cause that's where you can fit the most tables.

I suppose. Yeah. Just.

Is it a.

Nuts in the middle.

Is it a eating contest or is it a tasting contest?

No, it's a tasting to find the best clam chowder.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. A clam chowder eating contest would get real messy.

Oh, boy.

Come about minute 15, there'd be some projectile. That would be ugly. Nobody wants that.

Somebody gets a bad clam, we're gonna we got a big problem.

Oh, big problem. Then there's these also another festival, the Frozen Fest Festival.

Mm-hmm.

Ice Harvest Talks. Um, the museum has run chainsaw ice carving on the front lawn and frozen stories of ice and snow. Basically, this is a festival where you can watch people make ice sculptures, it looks like.

Yeah. There there nothing could be more boring.

Oh, yeah. Show me when you're done. I'll be over here.

Yeah.

Like, I'll be doing other shit.

I wanna see it when it's yeah.

When they're all finished, I'll come look at them.

I wanna see it when you've glossed it and I can see through it and it's an angel.

Yeah. Uh, yeah. For that matter, I don't wanna watch anyone paint a picture. I don't wanna watch anyone do any of those things. I don't wanna watch you edit your video. Show me when it's done. That's it.

Even when they paint, uh, Martin Luther King really fast with just their fingers, no brushes, and then they spin it upside down and the ah, and he painted it upside down. I don't care.

Yeah. That's great.

I'm not impressed.

This is the part I care about. Eh?

Yeah.

The done part. That's it. Don't care how you paint it.

Flip it and then tell me to turn around. I don't wanna see you get a mess.

Nope. So crime rate in this town.

Yeah.

Very low. What we're interested in. Property crime, about 80% under the national average. About 20% of the usual is what we got here for property.

Incredibly safe.

Incredibly safe. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-third of the average, so about two-thirds low. So.

Wow.

It's basically nonexistent crime in this town. Especially major crime in this you might get a kid knocking, you know, bashing a mailbox with a baseball bat or something, but.

Right.

Outside of that, there's nothing.

You can leave your bicycle in the front yard. It won't disappear.

No. That's kinda how we are here with this.

Yeah.

It's just a lot of rich people, I guess, that don't steal from each other, maybe. I don't know. They don't have to. They're fucking loaded, so.

You got $2 million homes.

That's crazy. So that said.

Wow.

Let's talk about a murder, everybody.

All right.

Okay. Um, let's talk about some people first here.

Who we got?

Well, let's talk about a man who will become a very successful man later in his career.

Terrific.

Richard John Sharp, with an E.

Uh-huh.

Okay?

Yeah.

So, uh, Dick Sharp over here, which is a crazy name. Uh, he's born August 23rd, 1954, and, uh, he's from Connecticut originally. He has had a very odd family life.

Oh.

For he'll later become a doctor, like a medical doctor.

Doctor Dick Sharp.

Doctor Dick Sharp over here.

Yeah. Doctor, Doctor Sharp, comma Dick.

Doctor Dick Sharp sounds like a weird wrestler from the late '70s.

Yeah.

Doctor Dick Sharp, they'd call him. So he is the third son. He has two older brothers and a younger sister. Third son of a tool maker who was basically an alcoholic gambling ga addicted to gambling who beat the shit out of everyone in the family. That's Dad.

Oh.

Lovely.

A, a, a tool maker isn't.

A tool maker.

Even a quality man?

That's, that's like the old, uh, working around metal thing. That's a lot of metal.

Yeah.

A tool maker.

That's a that's a metal man. Yeah.

There's too much metal to come home to your family and be nice. Um, now, his dad, at the same in the same way, very arrogant, very smart guy. Um.

Uh-huh.

Stingy. Real stingy.

Oh.

I don't know how much money the family has either, with four kids working as a tool maker.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know if that's a lucrative job in the, you know, '60s or not, but.

But even if you've got some cash and your kids need some food for lunch money and you're not giving it to them.

Yeah.

That kind of stingy?

I that I'm not sure about, but.

All right.

You, you'd be lucky, I think. Lunch would be the highlight of your day in this family, it sounds like, with that way.

Uh-huh.

Um, Dad's name is Benjamin Sharp. And, uh, like we said, tool maker and machinist in Derby, Connecticut. And, um, he beat his sons. Didn't beat the daughter, though.

That's nice.

Just the sons. Yeah. It's weird.

Yeah.

Sometimes these, like, abusive parents, sometimes it's a gender thing, and sometimes they, like, just, like, pick their favorite that they don't beat.

Sure.

But they beat the shit out of everybody. Sometimes they'll be four kids and they molest three of them and not the other one. It's like.

Yeah.

What makes them not molest all of them? It's.

Well, well.

I don't understand the psychology of being an abuser like that, I guess. It's not my.

And I and I won't, uh, obviously relate to molestation. However, uh.

Look.

I am I do notice after I have a conversation with my son or, or, or a conversation that's, uh, a learning lesson, I am absolutely 100% much harder on him than I am my daughter.

Okay. Yeah.

You know.

Well, so.

Yeah.

But.

Yeah.

I don't punch him. I will.

Yeah.

I, I don't punch the son and not the daughter. It's just I am absolutely.

No, it's true.

I the way I choose.

It's true.

My words in a conversation with him, I realize n after the fact. It's never during.

Even maybe.

Like, during it, I'm like, "This is totally fine."

Yeah.

Whatever.

This is how I should be discussing this, but.

Afterwards, I'm like, "What kind of fucking monster are you?"

But we, yeah.

That you're meaner to him than you are to her.

We all do that, I think, though, with the because we all have this thing of if we're.

Boys can take it.

Well, not only that, it's like they need to learn how to take it almost. Whereas.

Yeah. Yeah.

Girls need to learn how to take it just as much 'cause the world is just the same for them.

Just the shit of both of them.

At the same time, like, we have this thing in our head of if I mean to her, she will go find a mean guy.

Yeah.

Later on.

I'm gonna do that too.

And then I'll have to kill him.

Yeah.

And then that's just a lot of inconvenience. So if I'm nice to her, then maybe she'll find a nice guy.

Yeah.

That's kinda how our brains work. Whereas a son, we're like, "You need to get it together, man." Like, you but maybe that's the problem. Maybe that's why guys are dicks a lot of times is 'cause we're fucking.

I think it is.

We treat them like we're we don't treat them the same.

So much harder on them.

We they really I mean, at the same time, maybe we need to be harder. I'm not sure. How do you get them.

But my daughter's gay, so it like, I can I could be super fucking mean to her. She's not gonna date a, no a bad guy.

How do you get them, though, to at that point, the boys.

Yeah.

Like, we can be meaner or we can be nicer. Just how do we get them to not rape people? That's what I'd like to get to that point.

That's that right there's the sweet spot.

What's that formula?

Yeah.

'Cause that's hopefully we've.

How mean can I be?

Hopefully, I've, uh, put together a good milkshake that doesn't result in that now.

I think that depends on how mom is to him.

Oh, well, that too. But you I'm sure you can contribute. We can contribute.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's Dad certainly could tell them how to treat women.

We could set a terrible example. That's the we can do.

Sure.

Yeah.

Which is.

Yeah, yeah.

Terrible. Um.

But I think a lot of that rage comes from just loathing women or.

Yeah.

I don't know. There's probably there's a lot more than just that. Let's say that let's say there's a, a, a cornucopia of, of treatment that, that creates a rapist.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's lots of stuff that goes into that, obviously. That's I'm just saying I wanna do what I can, and that's what we need to figure out how not to make that.

Yeah.

That would help.

Figure out how to just be so kind to him that he wants to treat the world as such.

Maybe. Maybe that's what it is.

Especially women.

I'm not sure, man.

Yeah.

So the mom's name is Laura, and she is a homemaker and, uh.

Yeah.

Kinda watches the kids. His brothers are Bob and Benjamin Sharp. Um, now Bob.

And we got a junior Benny, huh?

Bob and Ben there. Well, it's yeah, that's yeah, Ben. But the weird part is Ben is the second born. So, so.

Oh.

Always strange when they junior up the second kid.

Yeah.

I guess maybe the first kid may be named after somebody's father who died or something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Who knows? So.

It does suck, though, to be looked at as your as the first born, and then Dad's not.

Yeah.

Dad's like, "Not yet. Not that."

Yeah. It was just, uh, some murder thing I was watching. It was that's the way it broke down. And I was like, "That's weird. Named the second kid that?"

Yeah.

So Richard was, uh, uh Robert was 14 years older than.

Mm-hmm.

Than, uh, than Richard here. Um.

Wow.

And then Ben was about nine years older. So he is much younger.

Much younger.

Than his siblings. Like, the parents had two, two.

Terribly close together.

Two kid having times. They had the.

Yeah.

The mid-40s there where they were do early to mid-40s.

Yeah.

And then later on, like 10 years, 12 years later, they started having kids again 'cause then they had.

Wow.

Young, uh, Richard, and then they had a sister named Laurie. Um.

Around the time Richard was born?

A little after Richard was born. So yeah, they had two, two batches of kids there.

Yeah.

Um, now, okay. The Dad is extremely abusive. Not just a little abusive, extremely abusive. And think about it, at the time, that was not even considered that bad. That's the thing.

Yeah.

That was like, yeah, parents beat the shit out of their kids, and it was like, "Well, yeah, you gotta discipline your kids." Like, you were considered like a like lazy if you didn't discipline your kids. The only one he did not beat up is Laurie, the girl. So.

Belts and fists and everything.

Oh, it's, it's everything. Uh, Robert said, uh, the oldest of this said that, uh, "He almost killed me for no reason at all," the father.

Oh, my.

Didn't have to do anything. He didn't have to, you know, spill paint in the garage. He didn't have to do any of that shit. He just he came home.

He was killed.

And a lot of times, if you were a drunk gambler and you come home and you had a bad night, you might wanna take it out on everybody, your own dumb fucking decisions.

Yeah.

And your own stupid shit. Um, Robert remembered being covered in blood from a we uh, deep wound to his head at one point inflicted by his father.

That's crazy.

So that's, that's a lot. Um, and apparently, uh, one of the grandfathers committed suicide, and that was like a big dark cloud that hung over the family that no nothing was ever the same after the grandfather committed suicide.

Wow.

A lot of weird shit going on in this family. A lot of undiagnosed mental things and addiction and all sorts of weird shit going on here.

It-it's also a time that you didn't discuss.

No.

Uh, things.

No.

And you don't get to the root of.

Fuck no.

And you don't solve problems. So.

No, you push it down.

They just yeah. And then just keep going.

For later.

Yeah. That's, um the, the whole family could have used just a big just a big load of therapy. Just everybody.

Yeah.

Just a one, one good round all around for everybody here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so it was a lot. Now, the older brothers grew up and moved out of the house.

Yeah.

Leaving Richard and his younger sister, and that's it.

Oh boy.

And he never beats up the younger sister, but he needs somebody to beat up. So.

Sure.

Richard is the guy. And, uh, his fa his father goes after him real, real hard. Um.

Huh.

Really hard. Um, he looks to his older brother, the oldest, Bob. He's talking to him, trying to, like, get rescued. Bob's out of the house. He's like, "Please, Jesus, come help me." Bob's married and has a wife and everything. And, uh, uh, Richard described Bob as more of a father than my own father was.

Huh.

'Cause 14 years is a pretty big difference in.

Yeah.

He could almost been his father.

If he's if he's 10, his brother's 24.

That's a lot.

You know?

Yeah. It's a that's a.

That also means Dad's aging. So pr he better he better figure it out 'cause he's about to be out of his punch swinging days.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing. If you've cowed these children enough.

Yeah.

Especially the youngest, they're not gonna fight back at all 'cause they're scared.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the problem. Um, and, uh, Richard said, "I started calling him," meaning Bob, "two ."

Yeah.

"Three, four times a day. I begged his wife to let me come out to go visit them, to stay with them for a while, to get the fuck out of the house just for a minute, if nothing, just to ."

They literally moved away.

The yeah. They got the hell away from these people, which I can't blame them. Um, so I mean, he by the way, where they live, Derby's like a it's a mill town that's crumbling.

Yeah.

Like, things don't look good for this Richard's future if you look at him at this point. He's, uh, you know, getting the he's in from, like, a trashy family where Dad's a gambler and pisses away all the money and beats the shit out of him and.

Tool and die, man.

Yeah. Doing that, coming home fucking covered in metal shavings and, and anger and just knocking everybody out. And, you know, he has this town in the '60s falling apart, crumbling. Had to seem like the most dead-end place in the fucking world.

Right.

And here he is.

On winter in, like, a.

Oh, yeah.

A scummy area of Connecticut.

Oh, dude.

It's gotta be.

Jesus Christ.

Gray snow everywhere.

Yeah.

Not great. So.

Yeah.

And he's just begging his, his sister-in-law, "Please let me come live with you guys." And they won't let him.

Mm-hmm.

So he's stuck here. Now, around the age of 10, he started hiding in the bathroom to get away from his father.

Okay.

He'd go in the bathroom, lock the door. He realized that if you're in the bathroom, nobody bothers you, essentially.

Yeah.

That's the that's the only place he has any sort of refuge is close the door. He'll think I'm shitting for a while. That's that's good.

And then hopefully he'll calm down before I'm done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, while he spend he would spend long amounts of time in the bathroom is the thing.

That's long time.

It becomes a jail cell.

Hang yeah. Hanging his own self-imposed exile to keep him as out of his father's sight, basically.

He's in a four-by-eight room.

If you're not in his sight line, maybe he won't hit you. You'd have to come think about it and then come looking for you rather than just see.

Yeah.

And be able to get pissed off at something. Now, what he started seeing in the bathroom for over lots and lots of amounts of time is he started just hanging out, and he would look through the hamper a lot 'cause there's a hamper in the bathroom where everybody.

Yeah.

Where the kids put their clothes, him and his sister. Um, and he sees Laurie's clothes in there, and he starts putting them on.

Oh.

He starts wearing his little sister's clothes.

Yeah.

Now, later on, he he'll say that basically Laurie was the kid that didn't get the shit beaten out of her.

Uh-huh.

So this was, like, his way to maybe if he's.

Escape.

Feels like Laurie, he won't get beat up or something. It's a real weird psychological thing that he's got going on here.

All right.

Um, but he said he felt so good in his sister's underwear and dresses that basically every time his father went into crazy mode, he'd go lock himself in the bathroom, sit in the corner, and dress up like his sister and sit there in his sister's clothes and pretend to be her. Like, that would be his thing. That's how he would escape mentally from this.

Imagine being a fly on the wall of that house going.

What is happening in here?

What the fuck?

Well, all the beatings and then this one.

Yeah.

Leaving and, and this is we don't even know. This is all this is just what's going on with Richard. We have no idea the dynamic between the mother and father. It's probably wild.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So.

Yeah.

There's a lot of weird stuff going on here. Um, and he is doing this not because he thinks it's fun. It-it's literally an escape from whatever's going on.

Holy.

This is his way of escaping. Um.

I'm not a doctor, clearly, but the, the.

No?

I can't even.

They stripped your license?

A doctor. That doesn't.

Finally.

That doesn't sound how do you get from A to B there? I don't see even him even him saying, "This just makes me feel safe." That doesn't make any sense.

It does, though, to those people. I've seen a lot on, like, the psychology of this type of thing. And it's like, um, you know, like, uh, it just makes him feel comfortable. Um, Ed Wood had a similar.

Ed's a filmmaker.

Thing that the filmmaker that.

These aren't the claims. You know what I mean?

No, but it's the he's 10 years old. The hell is he care?

Yeah.

You know? She's probably.

I realize that.

You know?

Yeah. But it's just fucking wild that he's putting on.

It's odd.

The dirties.

It's definitely odd. It's.

Yeah.

Fucking strange that he would be like, "I'm gonna put my sister's clothes on." But that would be when Dad was freaking out. That's what he would do.

Yeah.

He said, "I always felt more relaxed and safer dressed like that." Meanwhile, if his dad walked in and saw him dressed like that, he'd probably get twice the beating in 19.

That's what I mean.

'64 in Massachusetts. He'd come in with a or, or Connecticut. He'd come in punching and throwing beer cans at you probably. But.

You're gonna catch a Sam Adams.

Well, eventually his father did catch him.

Uh-oh.

And the way Richard told it, the it didn't go the way you think it would go. He didn't.

His dad, like, crumbled?

No. His dad he said, quote, "He didn't say anything about the cross-dressing."

Huh.

He didn't say, "Why are you dressed like a girl?" He but he yelled at me for taking my sister's clothes. That was he went to what you did, which is actually.

Huh.

Give the guy credit. He didn't make it he didn't make a big fucking weird deal out of the cross-dressing.

Yeah.

But he did yell at him, "Don't take your sister's clothes. Those are her clothes. That's, you know those don't belong to you."

You're bigger than her. You're gonna tear those.

Yeah. It's about stealing more than it's about cross-dressing.

Yeah.

Which is actually, you know, maybe his dad was pretty progressive. I'm not sure. But at age 14, Richard had saved up enough money to buy his own first set of women's clothing.

Oh.

By himself, an outfit, not have to steal it from his sister. Um, so from kinda 14 through high school, it's just a just a myriad of confusion and.

Yeah.

There's a lot of kids that are teenagers that are confused about their sexuality anyway, even if nothing happened to them. They just they're not sure. They don't know.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? They're 16. They're 17. They're just not sure. That's totally common for them to have some ambiguity in their sexuality and all that kinda thing.

Yeah.

But this kid.

And also, your body is, is so specific. It and, and everybody's so different. You we you use thing you'll these guys that are doing, like, cross they're doing that for a whole sexual purpose. But there's, there's things that women's products that are leaps and bounds far and away better than men's products.

Yeah.

Deodorant, socks. I use all I use a lot of women's things.

But using a woman's lotion or.

That.

Getting a buying a broth for yourself are pretty not the same thing at all, psychologically or any other way. It's.

Jamming a Kotex up your ass. What do you?

Yeah. Talk about apples and oranges. That is.

Yeah. Yeah.

Th-that is.

But the, the it's not necessarily.

Clams and cucumbers. We're in a different thing.

If you're using all women's things, yes, there's something interesting about that. But there are.

Yeah.

There are women's products that are just far and away better than men's.

Yeah. That's that's true. But yeah, this for him, that none of that is germane to this guy at all.

Not a thing.

You know? He's he's started doing this to hide from his dad and then started liking it and started.

Now it's a.

Now it's a thing that he does.

Now it's his vacation every day.

Exactly. Um.

Yeah.

And he was full of confusion about his sexuality, his identity. He didn't know what the hell he was or what he liked or who he was or anything. His dad, like, beat confusion into him, essentially. Um.

Yeah.

He said, "I was just a mess during that whole period of high school." Um.

And you are in the first place. And then Dad made it worse.

Fuck yeah. No. Absolutely. And he's not doing well in school. He's drinking, Richard.

Oh.

He's fucking off in school. Um, there's a, a, a teenage joyride that he took drunk and got caught for it, drunk driving while he was doing that.

While drunk.

Yeah. Doing that kinda thing. Now, back then, that would just be they'd take you home and have your dad slap you around a little bit. It wouldn't be that big of a deal like it would be now. But still, he did that. He's doing shitty in school. The kids picked on him a lot in school too. It's almost like they could tell there was a kids are perceptive as fuck. And if there's something that far different about you, they are gonna lock onto it.

Yeah.

Like a Top Gun radar and shoot a missile at it every time.

They don't they don't know why you're different.

Nope.

But they know it's different.

They know you're different, and it doesn't matter. It's all you have to be.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, the abuse in the house was wild. And, um, basically, that-that's the whole thing that happens. Now, by 1972, a new girl moves to town.

Oh.

Okay. Uh, coming in from Mount Clemens, Michigan.

Oh, yeah.

Her name is Karen Hatfield. And she's.

That last girl going to the fucking New England.

Going to New England. Uh, born October 3rd, 1955, a year younger than him. No big deal.

Yeah.

Uh, her parents are John and Patricia. She's got a brother named Jamie, a sister named Kathleen. Now, they move to Shelton, Connecticut 'cause that's where he lives in Derby.

Yeah.

Um, which is right next door to Derby. Uh, they both go to Shelton High School. Uh, Richard is a senior. She's a junior. Um, now, he is by the time he's, like, 19 by the time they really meet.

Mm-hmm.

Just a couple years later. Um, and everybody said that this the funny part is, people 19's old for high school, number one.

Yeah.

And they said that he was arrogant and bad-mannered as well.

Oh.

Now, Karen was about to turn 17, and her sister described her as, "Karen always took care of everyone."

Yeah.

That's what what everybody says here. Um, now, Richard was liked her, basically. Um.

Yeah.

So Karen's friend, Karen, said he was somebody who was interested in her and was kinda on board to try to.

Sure.

And maybe that's because she's a new person and doesn't know that he's been picked on forever.

Yeah.

And, you know, you'd latch onto that. You don't have a rep with a with a new girl, essentially.

Right.

Um, so the thing is, he pays attention to her, and that's all that she likes. She likes that he pays attention to her, and he's very attentive and very into her stuff. She totally fell for him. Her parents hate Richard, by the way.

Is that right?

Yeah. They there is no like, they're not looking at it going, "Well, the man'll be a doctor someday." They're looking at he's a jerk off.

Yeah.

From this.

19-year-old with bad manners.

Yeah. From this dumpy fucking town who has no future, who is comes from a shit family.

He's gotta blackened for Christ's sake.

Yeah. And also, I what is that? A thong panty line I see in your jeans?

Yeah.

Oh, that didn't help either, probably.

Yeah.

So, um, Karen's senior year, he knocks her up.

Really?

Oh, yeah. Um, apparently, she finished school with home tutoring, but.

Uh-huh.

Knocked her up. Now, Richard and her are talking about getting married, but her father, John, will not let Richard move into the house even though they're getting married and she's pregnant.

Right.

Doesn't like him. Um.

Uh-huh.

At one point, Karen ended up at her aunt's house, and, um, Richard found her there. And.

Yeah.

You know, I guess they were trying to hide her, trying to move her around.

Huh.

Like a shell game.

Yeah.

And he, he picked where the queen was going. And, uh.

Oh, boy.

Yeah. So he followed the queen, and he found it. They flipped it over, and that's where she was. So.

There she is.

September 1st, 1973, wedding bells are ringing.

Well, we got a get married.

Married.

We got a kid.

Yeah. She's 17. And, um, they'd get married in complete secrecy. They don't tell anybody. No one's.

That's fucking unbelievable.

That's wild. Um, didn't tell either set's of parents.

Oh, boy.

So there's that. Um, now, she knows Karen is gonna get a real idea of what she's in for right away because.

Yeah.

Until you live with someone, you don't know what they're like. You haven't actually lived with them.

Yeah.

Spending a few hours with somebody at night, getting something to eat, they drop you off, you have no idea what they're about. Nothing.

Yeah. You could spend, uh, a week with somebody and still not know.

Still not know. Go on vacation. But apparently, once you get married and move in together, that is when shit comes out. Um.

Yeah.

During the first week of the marriage, first week, uh, he overslept, apparently.

Mm-hmm.

And this is 1973. He blamed Karen for him oversleeping, you know, 'cause it's her fault.

Yeah.

I don't know why. Um, but here is a quote from a book here, uh, as far back as 1973, during the first week of their marriage, "He had hurled an alarm clock at her face after he had overslept." She he.

Okay. So, so he threw the alarm clock at her because she was supposed to set it or.

I don't know what it is. Why can't you be an alarm clock and throw it at her? You're suppo or.

Yeah.

I don't know why again too. I don't know if this is his dad's example of taking something that they did and then taking the rage out on somebody else or.

For sure.

What this is, but it's obviously.

Did he hit her or?

Uh, yeah. He threw it at her face and hit her.

Wow. Wow.

Now, for a 17-year-old pregnant girl.

That's not cool.

Yeah. Imagine being pregnant in 1973, and you're.

Yeah.

Young person, and you're scared already 'cause you're fucking pregnant. You're almost 18 and everything else. And then you get married to this guy who your parents fucking hate, and they say it's gonna be a disaster. And you go, "No, it's not. I love him, and he loves me, and we're gonna have a baby." And then he's throwing a fucking alarm clock at you. And this isn't this isn't one of these, like, you know, 2005 fucking small little travel alarm clock. These were.

This has the two rings on it.

Goddamn speakers on it. Either either the bell with that.

Yeah.

Or a clock radio.

Yeah.

That is, like, got wood and shit on it that weighs three pounds.

And a phone attached to it.

A phone, speakers, everything. That thing is crazy.

Everyth everything.

Dials and knobs.

It's advanced electronics and technology.

They stuck right there together.

Well did they?

That's it.

Earless.

So it's either that or one that's made of metal and glass with two metal bells at the top.

Yeah.

Either way, not something you want thrown at you. Put it that way.

Things that need a hammer to break it.

Yeah. Exactly. A screwdriver to take it apart.

Yeah.

So Richard decides he wants to go to college. Now.

Uh-huh.

Karen is going to work two jobs to put her husband through engineering school.

Oh. Oh, she's gonna okay.

She's gonna work while he goes to school and does, like, heavy workloads at school.

Yeah.

Um, and the this is what people used to do. It's which one of us has a better prospect of making a lot of money. And back then, it would just be the guy is gonna go make the money.

Who has the penis?

Yeah. So he would go, uh, "I don't know. Let's check the let's check both of your panties and find out." So he, uh, he you know, she's gonna work or she's gonna work a lot, and he's gonna go to engineering school and hopefully then make a lot of money that can support this family.

Yeah.

That's the goal that we're doing here.

Yeah.

Um, they also, by the way, in addition to hiding their marriage, they hid her pregnancy until it was very clear that she was pregnant. Until she was, like, doing that shit where she, you know, you waddle and, like, you.

Yeah.

One of those where you have to lean your shoulders back to counterbalance your weight.

And with an arm wrapped around it.

Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That's when they when she got up and it took, like, someone to help her, and she, like, did one of those. That's.

Wow.

That's crazy. So that's when they finally told everybody.

Yes.

They're like, "Oh, yeah. I guess she is pregnant. Would you look at that?"

Right.

Yeah.

And that's the point. At that point, it's like that, that cousin that comes out as gay that, like.

You're like, "And?"

We knew.

Yeah.

It was so obvious.

You're spinning a baton at the front of the parade. We got it. We're in short shorts. We understand.

Right.

No one cared. That's why we didn't say anything. We just said, "All right. Whatever."

You have a rainbow under your eye.

Who cares?

We knew, dude.

We got it. Yeah.

And.

It's fun when that happens, and you go.

There's nuts and shit.

And.

It's all so obvious.

Yeah. You go, "And?" You didn't need to.

Right.

Make an announcement. I mean, it's fine, but.

Yeah.

You know, it's cool. Um, just figured. So Karen then enrolls in community college and studies nursing.

Yeah.

And she's working two jobs. She's going to community college. Um, a daughter is born here.

Okay.

Their daughter's name. You'll love this, Jimmy.

No.

You will love this.

His name's Richard. She couldn't name him after him.

Nope. Shannon Sharp is the daughter's name.

What?

I swear to God. Shannon Sharp.

Well done.

Not a large black man.

Fortunately.

A small white girl. Shannon Sharp. That's amazing.

That's great.

That's so fucking awesome. Probably born arou uh, Shannon's a little older than that, probably five, six years older than her, but yeah.

It might.

She's got mid-60s.

They might be the same age.

Well, and Shannon come into league, like, '95, so he had to be, like, 21 in '95. So yeah, 74-ish. It could have been similar.

It's they might be the same age.

They could be a similar fucking age.

Wow.

That's amazing. Yeah. 'Cause I think he's, like, 55 now or something. So anyway, um, now, Richard, by the way, he said, quote, "I thought Karen planned to put the baby up for adoption later on."

Uh-huh.

He goes, "I thought we were I didn't even think we were keeping this fucking baby."

Yeah.

"I thought this baby was gonna be put up for adoption." And it's like, "Well, then why'd you get married?"

Right.

So that doesn't make sense.

Yeah.

Now, now, Richard earns an engineering degree.

Yeah.

Which is a big deal. You can make some money with that.

That's amazing. Yeah.

Then he says, "No, no. I'm not done."

Oh.

"Don't wanna be an engineer. I wanna be a doctor."

Well, that was a waste.

A medical doctor. Yeah.

Four years pissed away.

Well, she works.

Does that translate.

I don't think it does. No. I don't know. Um.

I don't think any of those prereqs are the same.

Well, either way, you go to college, and then you go to you're gonna have to go to medical school after that, so.

Yeah. But you've gotta do.

And so there's pre-med courses you have to do and all that.

Right. That's my point. He's gotta do other things before he can go to medical school.

We don't know those things. Hey, everybody. Don't know if you've noticed this or not.

No.

But neither of us went to medical school. We.

Yeah.

Neither of us went to college. We have no goddamn idea what we're talking about. We just know that.

Yeah.

Engineering and doctors are different people. Engineers and doctors are different people.

Yeah. I went to ASU for, for a couple hours to go do electrical work.

That's fun.

And then get the fuck off campus 'cause there's children here.

Wave that thing around. Yeah. Oh, man. So Richard said, "I'd always wanted to be a doctor, but having not done so well in school, I initially thought it was beyond my reach. Now I decided to try."

Uh-huh.

So he gets into school, and now he said that after that, he said, quote, "We actually got ahead of the curve," meaning the family. "We actually started to be successful. I'm going to medical school, whatever." Um, now, the problem is while all this is going on, he's got a lot going on. He's gets his degree. He's going to medical school. He's also starts becoming pretty abusive for what.

Oh.

From what we understand.

Wow.

This is from an affidavit filed by Karen. They will make up, break up, break up, make up a shitload of times, these two, over the years.

Yeah.

Just one day here, two days there. Um, Karen always ends up going back, basically quoting the bigger picture, saying, you know, "I want my kids to grow up in a family where they're successful and have money and go to private you know, whatever." That she's trying to do all that. So she's trying to say, "If I just ignore getting beat on, it's fine."

Uh-huh.

Which is a terrible thing to do, but a lot of people did that back then.

Yeah.

They really did. So '76 here. Um, Karen said that Richard, wow, imprisoned her in their home for 48 straight hours, beating her the whole time.

Why?

Dude, that's not that's not like, oh, he got real mad and he was drunk and he punched her, which is still crazy.

Yeah.

But this is you don't.

Locked the doors all weekend.

You don't realize what you're doing after, say, 20 hours or so of holding someone prisoner and beating them. You don't go, "This is crazy what I'm doing right now," right? Like.

Yeah.

No amount of anger can last that long.

And you're not allowing somebody to leave while continuously beating them. It's crazy.

You were saying you talk to your son, you say something shitty, and then, like, 10 minutes later, you're like, "Why did I do that?" This is.

Why am I so mean?

48 hours. Imagine if you just yelled at him for 48 hours calling him names.

And punched him.

Now, she was hurt bad enough to need to go to the hospital.

Oh, yeah.

Richard went with her. Um, and while the doctors are working on her, this is what she put in an affidavit for in divorce filings later on, quote, "He accompanied me to the hospital, and while I was being treated, he whispered in my ear, quote, 'I want you to die.'"

What the fuck? There's nothing funny about that.

No.

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

It's it's hilarious and crazy. As comedians, we have to see the dark side of this, but that is and to not be like, "Did you hear that? Did everybody hear that? Holy shit. He just said he wants me to die. This is crazy."

Although checking her blood pressure.

Yeah.

All the vitals. "I want you to die."

He walked and probably kissed her on the cheek and then whispered it, and they thought, "What a sweet husband. Look at him right by your so right by his wife's side. What a nice guy."

What the.

Was holding her hand, like, rubbing the top of it gently. And he go, "I want you to die." No, good. Yeah. It's great. You hungry? Can I go get you anything? Are you okay?

Goddamn it. He's crazy.

He's a fucking whack job, and it gets weirder.

Yeah.

Um, '80 or '81 New Year's Eve. Not sure of the year here. One of the two. Um, it's New Year's Eve. They were out at a event or something. They were drinking. Richard got drunk.

Yeah.

And while they were driving home, he decided he was going to beat the shit out of her in the car as they're driving.

Oh, boy.

Which, again, I don't know how you do that, but that's a whole separate issue.

I guess a non-snowy New Year's Eve.

It would have to be. Um.

Wow.

They tried to stop at a hotel along the way. Let's just stop 'cause he was drunk and it was late.

Right.

She said, quote, "We stopped at a hotel, but we were denied occupancy because I was covered in blood." They were like, "We can't you know, what are you doing? There's, like, a wounded person. You should go to the hospital."

She was bleeding actively.

A from the face.

At the what are your rates tonight? What?

Yeah. A hotel refused them service. And two.

Wow.

Why would you take her in the office with you if you're gonna be a crazy, abusive lunatic and f you wanna parade her and show her off or something? Look what I did. I it's so strange.

Was it that different of a time that.

This is 1981. That this is.

Right.

I mean, I get different, but.

Yeah.

This is, like, wild.

Public spousal abuse is just accepted that much?

I wouldn't imagine so. I mean, no, I don't think so. But anyway, um, he said she said, "As a result of this incident, I suffered from a broken nose, a concussion, two black eyes, and a split lip." Imagine what she looked like.

Oh, he is jacking her up.

She looked like fucking Rocky at the end of Rocky I for fuck's sake. Like.

Yeah. That's some Ollie Fraser shit.

Yeah. This is terrible. So that's a lot. Now, 1983 comes along. They're still together.

What the fuck?

Which is wild. Um, now, Shannon Sharp at this point is 10 years old.

Yeah.

I guess. It's so hard to say that and not picture.

Incredible.

A giant black man, tiny white girl.

I realize there's probably a lot of her that exists.

This is same exact spelling, so when I see it, it's just really funny to me.

Oh.

The E and everything. So, um.

She talks a lot of shit.

A lot of shit talking. You know, big you know, big for a tight end, but, uh, quick. So she's 10 years old. She later filed her own affidavit during a divorce proceedings and said, quote, "This is the daughter now. This is a 10-year-old."

All right.

10. Imagine that we both have daughters. Imagine taking your 10-year-old daughter and doing this. Crazy. Quote, "He grabbed my neck and continually slammed my head against the wooden bed frame until I could no longer breathe. My next memory is my head hitting the stairs as he dragged me down the flight of stairs, screaming and battering me." A 10-year-old girl.

Wow. Bashed her head against the bed until.

Yeah.

She was unconscious, obviously.

Yeah. Till she was unconscious.

And then drug her.

That's how she woke up, getting her head bounced off the stairs as she fucking got dragged down them. Now, his father was abusive. Is this his way of, like, some weird mental thing of, like, "You don't beat my sister up, but you beat me up, so now I'll beat up a young " I don't understand the psychology here. I just don't get it.

Uh-huh.

I'm, I'm of the I'm of the, like.

Sick man, James.

I don't want things that happen to me to happen to my kids.

Yeah.

Not, "I'm gonna inflict whatever happened to me on my kids." Like, I don't I'm not a part of that. So.

I got it, so now I get to give it. I don't understand that.

Yeah. This is almost, I think, has something extra. I mean, it is the only kid, so it's not like he has a choice. He could beat up a son, but he's choosing to beat up a daughter. But still, this is, uh.

But he's also beating the wife, and that's.

Yes. He's just beating all the women up in the house. That's crazy.

I just don't understand lashing out against your family like that.

I don't either. I don't get it. I'm much more of a, "I'll go sit by myself and, and, uh, be depressed for a minute," rather than lash out at others type of thing.

Yeah.

That's just me.

I, I can't imagine make wanting to make an, uh.

No.

Another person, let alone a child or, or a wife.

Yeah.

Or want just wanting somebody to feel what you felt when you.

Since you've been.

You've been through this. You know how that feels.

And, and I blame myself for everything too.

Yeah.

So, like, I would.

Yeah.

I couldn't imagine taking it out on somebody else.

Yeah.

I blame myself for shit that you do for fuck's sake. I'll blame I do. I'll blame myself for anything. One time.

Yeah.

I saw some.

I just had to unload a, a toolbox that my mom gave me, and that the, the, the horrible memories of each tool that I'm pulling out of these boxes that I used as a child, and the memories attached to them are horrific.

Yeah.

I threw away all of it.

Good. That's a thing to do.

It's, it's, it you don't and I'm and I I'm still mad at me about a lot of the shit in there.

I don't blame you. No, I, I.

I kick my ass better than anybody.

Yeah. I'll tell just from the show, people will if someone's mad, it takes exception to something you say.

Yeah.

I'll say, "Well, blame me because I'm the guy who's got final cut, so I could have edited it out. That's my fault." I literally say that. Whatever anybody says, blame me because it's, it's my fucking thing. I'm the one cutting it, and I'm the one with final say on everything.

I'm the one who is.

Yeah. So I don't know. That's, that's a weird.

And I said it, and I'm fine with it.

Yeah. We have some weird shit going on here. But I just say, "Blame me," 'cause it's easier.

Yeah.

You know? Fucking now, other.

I don't know. I, I feel like being when, when you've been abused or when you've been through something, you feel like you can take more, uh, than people that haven't. You know what I mean?

Oh, shit. Yeah. Absolutely.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

You just feel like, whatever.

I don't know.

I'll deal with it. I I'll handle it. Uh.

Very much understand that. Yeah.

But I don't understand lashing out at others and blaming and.

No. But he's.

Actually injuring other people, especially women.

Especially a, a young your daughter, your 10-year-old daughter.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Women and children.

To not have the instinct to fucking just protect a young daughter as much as possible is a very strange thing for a guy who's laying out to be.

He could easily.

So he.

Find a crazy bar and go get drunk and challenge a man.

Yeah. And he doesn't wanna do that, as you will find out.

No.

He's, he's a very thin guy. He's not a very.

Oh.

He's not a very physical guy. That's the other thing too. He's a kind of a kind of a he's a meek guy. I mean, he, he doesn't he came up getting picked on, and he never said, "Well, I'm gonna work out and get big, and I'm gonna be tough." Like, that never that part never clicked in. He just finally found someone whose ass he could kick, and it's a 10-year-old girl or his wife.

It is.

Now, Shannon, his daughter, also swore that on several occasions, she found that her father had taken her underwear for his own use. Okay.

She's.

That's creepy.

She's using her. Mm-hmm.

That's fucking creepy. You using your daughter's underwear on your own self?

And what's and what's her use?

Ugh. He's wearing them.

Yeah. Right.

He's fucking wearing them. When she hit her teenage years, he started taking other items of her clothing. Now, he'd been stealing clothes from his wife the whole time, from Karen, but he's also stealing clothes from her. She'll find clothes missing, and, you know, he'll have worn them. So.

Yeah.

1985, the family moves to the Boston area. This is so Richard could continue his medical training, okay? 'Cause he's still trying to become a doctor. That takes forever. Um.

Fucking hell.

In 1985, he became a research fellow at the Wellman Laboratory at, uh, Massachusetts General Hospital. He spent about a year under a guy named Dr. Richard Grandstein. Dr. Dick's just everywhere.

Yeah.

Wow. Um, everyone's named Dr. Richard.

It's it was such a popular name from.

Such a common name. It was.

Probably till s '70s?

Yeah. The '70s, everybody started laughing and saying, "Dick, that's hilarious."

Right.

Before that, no one even noticed somehow.

Yeah. Everybody had an Uncle Dick though.

Everybody. Yeah.

Everybody.

Everybody. So from '87 to July '87 to June of '90, he was a resident at the Harvard Academic Department of Dermatology.

Oh.

Look at you. All fancy. Um, now, in the '90s, we'll talk about this is when his career really takes off. Um, from mid-'90 to 1993, he was a full-time instructor in dermatology, seeing patients and making rounds with students. So he's instructing now.

Wow. It's your largest organ, James.

It is. Well, maybe yours.

Ah.

So.

Well, had to do that.

Yeah. But mine has to has to also cover that organ.

That's right.

So April 26, 1991, uh, this is when shit really gets crazy. Now, maybe you'd go, "Okay. Maybe the abuse before. Maybe he felt like his life was spinning out of control. Maybe he felt like he couldn't go."

Yeah.

Still, not even close to an excuse, but maybe possibly a reason. Um, by this point, the family's living in the Cambridge area. This is April 26, 1991. Um, he's being successful. The family is thriving as much as we can see. Richard comes home from work unexpectedly.

Uh-oh.

Now, apparently, according to court records, his he found Karen with another man at home.

Oh.

Gee. Wonder why she would possibly wanna find somebody else.

Was he possibly kissing her, not punching her?

Yeah. You think? And also wearing his own underwear possibly?

Yeah.

You know, just not stealing hers. Wear women's if you want, but don't steal them from her.

Yeah.

So.

Taking off his own underwear.

Yeah. He asked so she then said, "I want a divorce."

Yeah.

He came home, caught her in the act, apparently, and she said, "Well, I want a divorce."

Right.

Okay. The next morning comes around. Everybody's still in the house. Um, according to Karen and really the hospital and lots of other people too, Richard took a, a, a, a, a fork and stabbed her in the forehead with it. Just bink right in the forehead.

Dunk. Yeah.

Which that's the noise it would put. Bink. It was just bink. It's not going much further, but.

No.

Stabbed right in the forehead.

Very shallow stab.

Yeah.

Does it stick, or does it fall out?

That's the.

Probably falls out.

It probably falls out, but you're gonna have tine marks up there.

All four of them.

Stuck a fucking fork in her which is just wild lack of.

Yeah.

Control of your rage to just be like.

Right.

And just stab somebody.

Yeah.

In the forehead especially. It's not even like a directed wound. Not in the neck. Right in the forehead.

Was he aiming for an eye though, you think?

Who the fuck knows? I'm not sure. We don't know how big of a forehead she has at this point, so it's.

Yeah.

We don't know. Might have been a big target or maybe not.

Sure.

So Karen grabs Shannon and flees the house.

Yeah.

We don't know. Possibly with a fork dangling from her forehead. Um.

Maybe.

She reported the attack to the police.

Yeah.

Here we go. The first time they've come up at all in this story.

That's it.

Um, Richard is involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital because of this incident.

Oh.

Yeah. They immediately put him away. She's like.

They couldn't explain it. They're like, "A fork? He's gotten crazy."

No way. Yeah. And he's a doctor too, so they're.

Right.

Kind of, you know, looking at that. He was diagnosed with major depression with features of anxiety and schizoid or other personality disorder.