Transcript of #242 Pete Scobell - SEAL Team 6 Operator Breaks Down the Hostage Rescue of Captain Phillips

Foreign. Welcome to the show, man.

It's an honor to be here.

It's an honor to. Have you been wanting to do this one for a long time?

Yes, we have. What a amazing path we have come to be intertwined in at various points together.

Yeah, no kidding, right? Yeah, no kidding. It's going to be heavy. It's going to be a heavy interview, but it is. I appreciate you coming, man. I know this takes a lot of courage.

I appreciate you having me and I being here. I've avoided a lot of stuff in the last five years. And then we had these touch points, and it finally was like, okay, I want to talk, but I'm going to talk to Sean, nobody else.

So that means a lot, man. Thank you.

I'm a big fan and you're doing a great job.

Thank you.

And I mean that. There's so much noise out there right now. There's so much noise and, you know, trying to pull out what's real, what's not real. It's like you're being bombarded with the algorithm and trying to find the bits and pieces of truth in there and then take the time to digest them and then filter them through the people that you trust. What do you think of this? Or what do you think of that? And I think in that mess, your bringing a very reliable source of information. That's not. It's not saying, oh, believe this, or believe this. It's saying, here it is. What would you like to do with it? And nobody else is doing that, and nobody, but definitely not mainstream.

Yeah, that's no kidding. I mean, I take it, you know, very seriously. You know, and I think we were talking about it last night at dinner, but, yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find any real truth. And so it's, you know, I'm trying to, like, make people think a certain way. I'm just trying to give them information and then they do with it what they want, you know, But I think that's important. But. But let's get to you, man. You want to kick it off with a prayer?

Yes, but I want to kick it off with something. So you sent me this book on June 11, I think was the first day I read Calling Jesus by Sarah Young. You sent me a note, and in the note you said it was great hanging with you. I know we don't know each other that well, but I feel like we're carrying some around, carrying some heavy weight. I'll leave the rest of it. But you said, basically, this is an important book. To you and I think it'll be important or important book to yourself. It'll be important to you as well. And so I'm a big believer in anything. I'll try anything twice. I always say that someone says, hey, try this out. Whether it was for TBI or ptsd, all that stuff, I'll try it because I, I want to know personally, is it work? Does it not work? So I started reading this every day from and I would highlight it as kind of a reminder. And so this morning I got up September 25th and I want to read it to you. Pour all of your energy and trust into me. It is through trust that you stay connected to me, aware of my presence.

Every step on your life journey can be a step of faith. Baby steps of trust are simple for you. You can take them with almost unconscious ease. Giant steps are another matter altogether. Leaping across chasms in semi darkness, scaling cliffs of uncertainty, trudging through the valleys of the shadow of death. These feats require sheer concentration as well as utter commitment. To me, each of my children is a unique blend of temperament, giftedness and life experiences. Something that is a baby step for you may be a giant step for another person or vice versa. Only I don't know the difficulty, only I know the difficulty or ease of each segment of your journey. Beware of trying to impress others by acting as if your giant steps are only baby ones. Do not judge others who hesitate in trembling fear before an act that that would be easy for you. If each of my children would seek to please me above all else, fear others judgments would vanish. Fear of others judgments would vanish, as would attempts to impress others. Focus your attention on the path that is just ahead of you and on the one who never leaves your side.

The piece of scripture that that comes from as Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

What does that mean to you?

I think we're spirits having a human experience. We're not humans having a spiritual experience. And when you realize that, you realize this is all one big lesson. And the more that I bring him close to me on a daily basis, the more I lean on him, the less I worry about what's coming, the stronger I feel. And you know, you get to a point where you, you have these experiences and you want to share them because you hope that they'll help someone else who's in a shadow in the valley. And I feel like we both been walking through A valley for a long time. And I just thought that was a really interesting read for our first. For this interview.

Yeah, man. I think as much as we don't like to admit it, we like being in that valley, you know, feels like.

Home, feel like where we do our best work, you know, I love.

I've loved that book, man. And, you know, a couple years ago, Elijah, who you met, you know, he's. He's the head of production here, he sent me a book because, you know, about my story. I've been trying to find, you know, truth and understand the Bible and all that kind of stuff, and that's really hard to understand. And Elijah had sent me, gave me a book for Christmas, and it was all the things that just Jesus had said. It's a really good book. I can't remember the name of it, but it was still a little confusing. And then somebody else sent me that, and that just really breaks it down, you know. And, you know, the three common themes that I found is be more accepting. Call evil out, and. And just be the light, you know, And I think that's the commonality, you know, throughout all of the Bible. And I think, you know, if we just. I think we were just a little more accepting and hearing another side or another. Another perspective, you know, I think the whole world would. Would look a lot different, a lot better than it does today, that's for damn sure.

But it really. That book just breaks it down into. Into, you know, verbiage that dummies like you and I can actually understand. And it's almost seems like a guide on how to live.

I like it because it's, you know, I started cracking the Bible, and you're like, okay, what does that. What does that mean? Where does this fit into things? And how does it relate to my day? And. And when I started reading that, it was just a. It's a constant reminder. And there's a constant theme that bleeds through every day, and that's just, bring me closer. Just bring. Just lean on me. Bring me closer. And when you're struggling, you know, or take a minute, stop worrying about the things you can't control or worrying about the past. Be present in the moment. And I feel like that's like the common theme. And being present is like one of the hardest things to do. And when you think about time, it's like, it's just now. The future isn't there and the past is gone. And so much, I think when I was younger, and you're probably like this too, but I was never there. I was always looking where I was going, and I was working through the moment, but I was never in the moment. And I missed a lot. And, you know, getting ready for this interview, going back and like, reliving some of the experiences, a lot of them, it was heavy, but it was.

And then things just opened up. I started going down rabbit holes that I was like, I was having these vivid memories. We were talking right before we started about the plant medicine, therapy, you know, people, you know, I. My first one, 2019. But now we're, you know, I'm still benefiting from it. And that integration becomes a lifelong. I mean, for me, it's like I was here and then I went here and. And I'm still on that path. And so just being present and that book. It doesn't matter what you believe. Like, if you believe in God, just stop calling. Everybody gets in arguments. Well, what the name is, what the marketing is, who, what, you know, all the. But if you believe that God is everything, then God is in you, that faith in God is faith in yourself. And then the kingdom of God is within you. I. I think you constantly go back to that. It becomes. It's. It's. With all the noise and we're talking about all the noise that's happening right now. If you can just come back to that. It's like a. It's. It's. It's like a little island in the sea of chaos.

And that just does it every day for me. So now I get up, I crack that open. I kind of already know what I'm going to read. You know what I mean? I'm like, okay, you're here. Let's go through this. Yeah, but then there's little, Little pieces, and they put this. They put the different parts of scripture that back up what the statement is. But it's my morning ritual and. Been fantastic.

Good, man.

Yeah. That's sick. Just fantastic.

Good.

Thank you for that.

You're welcome. You're welcome. I read it at night before I go to bed, and then about my first year, too. But I'm curious to see if the same things that hit me this year hit me next year, if it'll be totally different.

You know, started making notes on it after. Like, what did I get out of that? What does that mean? And then I'll summarize it and I'll put a quick note down or other things that I see I write in, you know, during the day. I just kind of keep it as a. Not necessarily a journal, but As a running record of where my mind is. Yeah. And when I get upset or mad, like, I have something to fall back on immediately. And it was interesting. The other. The interview you did with Trying to remember his name about the religion.

The religion business.

The religion business. One of the takeaways from that was that the megachurches went to Stanford and did. They said, how do we deepen people's faith? How do we keep people in the seats? Right. And the study came back and said, an individual reading scripture and praying is the only thing that deepens your faith. Nothing to do with the. You can't do anything. Your mega church. It has to be the individual. And I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot of sense because it's. It sit. Well, it works.

It does.

And. And it's always simp. Keep it simple. Stupid. Like, there you go.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're getting something out of that, man.

I am. Makes me happy more and more than I can ever express.

So you ready to get into it?

I am, dude. I'm. I'm definitely ready.

Good. All right, everybody starts off with an introduction. Pete Scobell, a Navy SEAL veteran with six combat deployments. You served at SEAL Team 8, SDV Team 1 and Development Group. Began your career as an enlisted SEAL before attending the United States Naval Academy. Only the third SEAL to ever do that. Leader of the Navy SEAL team that conducted the rescue of Captain Richard Phillips from Somali pirates in 2009. Jumped into a country music career with albums like Walking a Wire and collaborating with legends like Wynonna Judd. A motivational speaker and also an actor with roles in films like Plane. A husband, father to three children, including Hollywood star Walker Scobell. And most importantly, which we just covered, you're a Christian. So couple things here before we get into the interview. Right. So you want a lip pillow?

I. I actually got. I got a. I got a. I got my own soft.

All right.

Supple lip pillow.

Let me put a session here real quick. I can't read with this in my mouth, but.

Well, first of all.

Wait till later.

First of all, I want to start. I was also at. I was on the mission. I didn't lead it. I was in charge of getting everyone to the target.

Okay.

And I was also spent a large portion of my time at Seal Team 1. But, you know, since I'm very familiar with your team, I. I know where they. I know where their. Their lacking is. Their research. We won't hold anybody personally accountable.

You can hammer him at the end of the interview here. But, yeah, by the way, thank you for introducing me to Jeremy. So, yeah. And, yeah, apology accepted. But, dude, he's just been amazing. And you called me or you texted me and you said, if you don't hire this guy, you're a idiot. And I was like, well, that's not happening. And then I was like, all right, maybe I'll call him and see what's going on. And, dude, Jeremy has just turned out to be a fucking rock star. I mean, if you have a pulse in this world, we will find you and get in touch. Doesn't mean they're going to say yes, but every single person that we've targeted, we've got a response out of. And that's all Jeremy, man. So thank you for that introduction.

It was really weird when that happened because I had watched some of your stuff and I was like, oh, this is cool. I started watching your interviews and then you cross paths with. Then I recognized Cactus and Winona were. You were friends with them. And I was like, oh, okay. This is different. Because Cactus Winona family to me. And Cactus is just. I can't. I don't know where I'd be in this world without him. I absolutely love him like a father. And so that it wasn't that you were a team guy that gave you credibility in my mind, it was that you were with Cactus, and then I saw he was with you when you got baptized in the lake. And Jeremy's my roommate from prep school all the way through graduation at the Naval Academy. And Jeremy had retired and was living up in the off the grid by himself with his family and kind of doing what he was doing. And he. I had come down and meet or met you at Winona's birthday party. In passing, we had a quick conversation and. And Jeremy didn't know that I knew you or any of that.

And Jeremy said. Called me one day. We're just catching up as normal. And he's like, I feel called to respond to this X post that Sean Ryan has about being his producer. And I was like, okay, do you realize you're gonna have to leave where you're at and go here and. Do you want this? Do you really want this? And he said, yeah, I feel called to it. And I was like, all right, hold on. That's when I texted you. I was like, let's see if this happens. Who knows? Let's see if this calling works. But his background is just unbelievable. And I could. I saw how you thought and I saw how I Know how Jeremy thinks. And I'm like, I think this is exactly what you needed. And I hope that worked out.

It's been a perfect fit, man.

And then you got Eric as well. It's funny, I walk in here and I'm like, blast from the past, you know, with the. With your team. It's like my. My family.

Yeah. It was interesting being the only enlisted scumbag at dinner last night. That's for.

But I was like, this fitting. I'm like every. Listen to you guys. Like, like, look at this. Three officers and the man at the head of the table. Z listed the way it's supposed to be. Right on, man.

But all right, so I got a couple gifts for you before we start here, right? So first, one Vigilance League gummy bears. Made in the UF made in the USA no funny business. Legal in all 50 states.

That's a bummer.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we go out to California and get the good ones, but those are just candy and.

I think.

You'Ll appreciate this one.

Oh, my God, dude. Wow.

So that is the SIG Sauer P226 legion. So, you know, we're team guys. Pretty sure you probably carried a 226 when you were in. It was in that time frame.

Right.

And so they've upgraded it. It's no longer a double action, you know, no decocking lever, but that thing is a Cadillac, man.

Wow.

So thought you might like that.

This is amazing, dude. Can't wait to use that on that range out there.

Yeah, well, we'll do it on the first break here.

All right. To give me some instruction. Oh, okay. I'm serious, man.

Right on.

Hey, you know, that's. Life is about learning. And I have a gift for you as well. I have two gifts for you.

I love gifts.

Jeremy said, hey, can you find something that would be cool to hang in the. In the studio? This is the ripcord from the. My shoot on the Captain Phillips mission.

Holy shit. Are you serious, dude?

Yeah, it was sitting in a box in my basement. I wasn't gonna do anything with it. And this is my call sign patch from that. That was also in the box in the basement. I was probably going to get thrown away flags. Dude, get out of here.

Thank you. What is that?

It's a Viking Gray squadron. Vikings. Thank you.

Well, that's going to be framed put in here. I'm going to have to be signed that flag.

Sure, man. So thank you, dude.

Wow.

I don't have any. It's interesting at Home. I don't have anything hanging on the walls. I don't have any plaques. I don't have any. It's all hidden away somewhere and forgot even had that. And I was thinking, I'm like, what do I give them Then I'd seen some of the videos in here. I'm like, well, maybe you can find use for it, dude.

Thank you.

And the other thing I got, I was. Because we ride the short bus, I found this hero bible.

Nice.

It has pictures in it, dude.

I have something similar. That's the action bible.

The action bible. This is really cool, man.

Yep.

Anyways, I do great with a little bit of words, lots of pictures.

I read a lot of picture books. I read a lot of picture books, dude. Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't have this one, so I.

Thought it was cool. Thank you. I see my sons are always reading the, you know, that anime. The anime books, and they're these huge comic books, and they're really into them. And when I saw that, I was like, let's give this a shot. I thought you might.

I love it.

Anyway, thank you. Yeah, man, I thought that was cool. Thank you for. Thank you for the. The boomstick, the gummy bears.

My pleasure. All right, so one last thing before we get going. I've got a Patreon account subscription network, and we've turned it into one hell of a community. A lot of these guys and girls have been here since the beginning when I was doing this out of my attic. And, you know, in all honesty, they're the reason that I get to sit here with you here today is because of them. So I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question. So this one is from Wynonna Judd. Could you share the story of events the night before and on the first day you started recording your debut album?

Yes. So. All right. I'm a. I grew up playing rock music and the dead and fish and grunge era, like, you know, that was not like a.

You're a hippie.

I'm a total hippie, dude. I'm of it. I'm a total hippie. And long story long, I got this. Had written a song, kind of got put into the, like last minute for a movie. And it got, you know, like, we can't really use it. And it got floated around and it was just subs getting out. I had like 24 hours of write. It went away. I didn't think anything of it. And out of the blue, I get this phone call from this guy. Named Cactus. And he says, hey, man, working with this guy Christian, who's producing this movie called the Hornet's Nest. And we got your song, and I was wondering if you wanted to come to Nashville and record an album. And I was like, okay. Didn't know. I didn't know Cactus. I didn't know any. And I knew who the Judds were, obviously, but I wasn't like a, you know, big, you know, die hard country fan. And so Cactus is like, fly to Nashville and. And, you know, we're going to cut this album over these days. And. And I didn't really know him. I. Christian, producer of the movies. Like, yeah, he's a great guy.

He's. He's Winona Judd's husband. He's drummer. And I said, okay, well, all right. Like, again, I'll try to think twice. Like, how often do you get to go to Nashville and record? And this would be amazing or it's gonna be horrible or whatever. Let's go try it. Like, and so fly here to Nashville. I get off the plane and got my guitar in my hand. And you know when you're. You're coming through the airport, there's like a little stage right before you go to badge claim there's a dude playing guitar and singing. And he's looking at me like, nods his head, you know, and I'm just like, this is a horrible idea. What the hell was I thinking? And we went downstairs and got a rental car and I drove to meet Cactus. And we. So we sit down, we have lunch together, and I had scheduled a. Booked a hotel. And he goes, come on, you're going to stay at the house. And I said, well, I got a hotel. I don't need that. He's like, no, no. Why want you to stay at the house? And I was like, okay, we'll do this.

So my first night in Nashville, we drive to the house. And at the time you've been over there, at the time, it was completely under construction. I mean, it was like a 100 construction by plywood floors, like, dogs running everywhere. And. And there barely any lighting. And I walk into the kitchen that has got a plastic table and why I'd put like a tablecloth on it. Her son Elijah was there and. And we got to take out and. And wise all dressed in black and she's got her long red hair, and I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, this is the. This is the queen of country music. Like, and I'm in this. It was just kind of a surreal moment. But very real in the fact that like, you know, it wasn't fancy. It was like, we're having takeout and we're gonna talk. And so I sat down, I ate, and why. I was nervous. And I'm just like, why are you nervous? I should be nervous. You're like the, you're like the queen. And we had a steel bowl. She goes, what kind of music do you like? And I'm like, well, yeah, I like everything.

And she immediately goes, name one song that I sing. And I'm just like, I'm just sitting there, I'm like, grandpa, thank God I knew one song. And she's like, do you know anything else? And I was just, I was thinking to myself, like, why me? And she's like, that's an easy one. And I was like, oh, shit, that's a song. It's totally like one of those moments. And I'm like, what did I get myself into? And so we pulled out our cell phones and we started playing music. And we didn't have a sound system, so we would take the phone and we'd put it in the steel bowl. And that was our speaker for the night. And I had. My friends in Colorado owned a distillery, Woody Creek distillery. And I asked Cactus like, hey, send you guys out like a, you know, a gift. So I had sent out some Woody Creek vodka. Potato vodka. It's unbelievable. So I sent that out and we finished dinner. Y comes over and takes a bottle, puts it on the table and. Because we're going to talk and I'm just like, oh boy, oh man. Like, so why.

And I started drinking and Cactus are supposed to be in the studio in the morning, right? And eight in the morning, I'm still in the chair. And why is yelling at me? What am I not interesting? But we talked about everything. I mean, we talked a lot of stuff that we're going to talk about tonight. We talked about like life and death and parents and, and why. Just why. And I had this. I didn't know enough about her as a, as a. I knew who she was, but I didn't know anything about her background, right? And she didn't know anything about me. And so we met in this place of just this neutral moment and it was. She immediately became this like rock in my life that night. And Cactus rolls into the morning and I don't know if your Cactus is. He's missing his left leg, got hit in a head on collision on a motorcycle and lost his left leg. Which in itself is an amazing story. And but in the mornings, you know, he's sitting in a wheelchair. He rolls in, in the wheelchair in the morning. He's like, what the hell?

Look, we gotta be in the studio in the morning. And he's asleep in a plastic chair. Like, how are we gonna pull this off? And he's like, get up. So we make coffee and we go in. And then that kicked off my. My first album.

Damn.

In Nashville, meeting Winona. And she's been in my life pretty much every day since.

That's awesome.

In some way, shape or form, they're great people.

Great people. Yes. You never know what you're going to get when you meet somebody like that, you know, and they're just down to earth, real people. And yeah, it's.

I mean, that's.

That's getting hard to find anywhere, let alone in. In the entertainment.

And it wasn't until. It wasn't until we went on our first tour together, the Songs and Stories tour. I opened. I was opening up for her, and after I finished my first. It's kind of a fun. That again, is a funny story because I'm standing on the side of the stage and why usually hides in the bus until it's her time to go. She walks up, she. She goes. And I'm getting ready to go on stage, and we're in. We did like these smaller, like 3,000 person, very intimate songs and stories. And she walks up next to me. She goes, okay, here's the deal. No one here came to see you. And I was like, I know that. She goes, and you don't get a band. She goes, if you can win them over, then you might have a chance in this industry. And I'm going to be praying for you. And I just, you know, they announced me and I walked out on stage and I'll never forget that. That just. And she just smiled and nodded and went back to the trailer. And I finished my first set and I wanted to see her, so I went around to the sound.

Sound booth in the back. When she came out on stage and she walked out by herself, all dressed in black. And beforehand, the band prays backstory backstage, Cactus leads a prayer. So we do the prayer and I hurry up and run around to the front and I'm standing with the sound guy. And why walks out alone. One spotlight and she sings Pretty Bird Acapella. And I get chills. I've. It is to hear her that it is the. It's the voice of God. And I didn't realize in that moment all the stuff that we had talked about and all the pain that she had been through in her life and we had shared. And then I heard her voice, and I was like, oh, that's. You have to carry that. Like, that's what you're. You have to give this away. And it's a lot for her. It's a lot. And when you. When you just hear. You don't see too many artists in Nashville that walk out alone without a band, and they just, you know, get after it because everybody's hiding behind something, and she doesn't. She just walks out there and bares her soul, and I get chills.

And that entire tour, I would go out to the soundstage just to listen to her, just to watch her.

Wow.

Do that. I have so much admiration for her and all the stuff she's been through, especially in the last year, and then back to the stadiums and, you know, it's just a. I don't know. Every time I go over there, I was there yesterday. Every time I go over there, I walk in the kitchen, and now it's beautiful. It's all finished, you know, And I'm just. I'm like, laughing. Just remember those first. First night, first days of, who are these people and what are we getting into? What is this? It was such a great. Such a great part of my life.

Thank you for sharing that, man.

Yeah, I love them. I love why. I love Cactus Elijah, their son, who's police officer. I think a brother just treasures.

They're great people.

Yeah.

Let's get. Let's get into your story here.

Okay, you ready? Yep, I think so.

All right, man. Where'd you grow up?

Born and raised in Erie, Pennsylvania. My father was 51 when I was born. My mother was 25. My father was a. Was an attorney, World War II vet. He. He'd gone to Phillips Academy, Andover, and wanted to enlist to be in the airborne and catch. He was trying to get into combat, and he got into the army, took some tests, and they made him a bombardier, put him in the Army Air Corps. And he went to. Became a bombardier navigator on a B17. And he finished his time, didn't. He got over. I think he got over to England, missed the war, and then they came back. He did his four years. He got out, and his parents at the time were living in Chicago. And so he went to Chicago and they said, there's a school up the road, Northwestern. You should go check it out. And hit the GI Bill then. So he went to check out Northwestern, and he ended up loving it. So went to Northwestern, doing great till senior year. Played a fraternity prank and he got kicked out. And in that time, his parents had moved back to Erie, but he had already been accepted to law school there at Northwestern.

And so they said, your punishment is you got to graduate from somewhere else. You can still go to law school, but you can't get your degree from here. So my dad went to Allegheny. He finished one semester at Allegheny, he got his degree and then went back to Northwestern. Undergrad or then he got his master's in economics and his law degree, and then they moved back to Erie to start his own law firm. And a lot of this, part of the reason why I'm doing this is for my kids because I never met my grandparents. I didn't know, you know, like, a lot of this for me is. Was hanging on my mind, like. Like, where were these stories? What am I. What are my kids? What are they going to know? But anyways, so this is, you know, my dad, he comes back and starts his own firm. He gets married, has a couple kids, and he gets divorced. And I have a half brother and a half sister that I don't really. We met a few times and. And we have had a brief relationship, but it wasn't a lasting thing. And he.

He was working as an attorney. He's very successful. And then meets my mom, who at the time was a. She was going to Edinburgh University and studying music. She was a viola player and also playing in the philharmonic in Erie. My dad was just a newly divorced attorney, and he starts dating her and they date for, like, get married, I think when she was around 21. And, you know, he's in his late 40s, and I'm pretty sure I was an accident. And here I show up, you know, he's 51 and my mom is 25. 25 at the time. And he had this house out in the country and we had a horse stable there. My mom, from pictures and whatnot, she loved horses. She was. Was a musician. She would go to parties and pull out a guitar and sing. And everyone used to tell me stories about her. And she was this vivacious, beautiful woman. And part of what they used to culture back then was they would. In the winters in Erie, we used to get tons of snow. And so everybody had snowmobiles. And the snowmobile crew, they would trail ride all over and they would go bar hopping.

And one night I was. I must have been around 10 months old at the time. It was March. The crew came by the house and said, hey, come on. Let's go out. My dad had just bought my mom a brand new John Deere 340 liquefier snowmobile. My dad said, you know what, I'll watch Peter, why don't you go out? You haven't ridden this new snowmobile yet. And so my mom went out with her crew and in Gerard, a few miles away from our house, there's a big open field. And the story goes that my mom got in the open field and wanted to see how, see what this new snowmobile can do. And she hammered down on it and she hit a fence and was killed immediately. And so their friends were there and she, you know, they came upon her and she was gone. And so here's my dad, 51 years old and now he's a 10 month old baby. And he was not prepared to be a father in that capacity. And we had, we had a family from right near us that was helping the Burkles. And at the time my mom had help from one of the daughters, beach, and they were German immigrants.

Beach was actually born in Germany and she came over and her brother Ralph was actually born in Germany as well. Spoke German in the house. The father, Rudy, wonderful, wonderful man, was a butcher. And, and beach was helping with me. And my mom dies and she just kind of goes full time. And my dad ended up, you he post that. He, he kind of fell apart in like a big way. Lost his practice. You know, he'd gone from this successful attorney and he just kind of, I think from what I can gather, he stopped kind of working. He went into a depression. He was a pretty heavy drinker, very smart, but very ruthless with his words. And so beach stepped in and started taking care of me. And my dad married her and she was with, she was my mother, she was the one that I identified with. And my dad wasn't nice to her at all. He was really mean to her. And as I got older, I started to see this. They got divorced. And what age? I was probably six when they got divorced. That was when my dad's world was really coming apart.

The irs, he hadn't paid taxes, he had lost kind of everything. He had sold our main house. And I just recently remembered going through the adoption proceedings, my dad decided, you know, to give me to this to the Beach. And so I remember being in the judge's chambers. Judge said, hey, who do you want to live with? And I was like, I want to go with her. And the judge was a friend of my dad. And I think my dad changed his mind. At the last moment and said, no, I'm. He's not leaving. Cuz she had decided to move and her family was moving to Texas, moved into a new house and I would go visit her and I'd stay at the house all the time. And the brothers were like my uncles. And one day she came to the house and she said, I'm leaving, we're going to Texas. And say goodbye to me. And in that moment. And post ibogaine and therapy. But in that moment I had this like they had told me stories about my mother and I'd seen pictures but. But I had a mother so it wasn't like a priority, you know what I mean?

It was like there, but it wasn't there. And then all of a sudden she was gone. And I remember laying in my bed and I, I still go back to this moment. It was like the most horrific feeling. I felt like I was being torn apart in every direction. And I couldn't sleep. I watched the sunset and I had this overwhelming feeling that nobody was coming for me. My dad didn't want me and she was, she was gone, you know, no, you're not picking up the phone and calling. And then here was my, the pictures of my mom and my dad was, you know, and I started asking questions but that I go back to that moment because what I found is that with our community, I think a lot of people go through a. Something like, something at a young age that makes us driven, that like put lights, this fire inside of us that makes us want to achieve. And mine was fear nobody's coming for. My dad would always tell me that and I'm gonna die at any minute. Right after my mom died, my dad had a catastrophic heart attack and was, and he was in the CCU and he was a heavy drinker and the, the physician actually told me like your dad left the CCU and walked down, he was at Hammond Hospital.

Walked down to the, There was a bar, the Buoy. And he's like, I found your dad sitting buoy in his, in his robe, like having a drink and smoking his filterless palm. All he just like, I don't care anymore. Like he, he was just constantly telling me, like, I'm going to die at any minute. You got to figure this out.

How old are you at this point?

I was about seven or eight.

Seven or eight years old?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, what specifically would he say?

Just, it was a constant reminder, like, hey, listen, you know, I'm not going to be here. And so after beach left, he took Me out to this. Took me to Ohio to a family that was. He was friends with, and we're gonna stay a week. And he goes, we're kind of hanging out. They have two boys, the Buckles. Very nice. My dad like, oh, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go home for a little bit. He goes home. And I overheard the family like, well, you know, we got to enroll them in school, and we got to figure this out. And. And I. During. While he was gone, they took me to the local school, enrolled me in school, and I was like, hey, what. What's going on here? And, you know, they were like, well, your. Your father's. He was suicidal at the time, and he was ready to, like, they. This kid needs it better than I can help him, better than I can give him. And I figured he. I'm like, oh, he's. He's leaving me with these people. And he came back to visit, and I crawled in the car, and I was like, I'm not going.

Not going anywhere without you. And he just kind of looked at me. I don't remember packing. I don't remember any of it, but I remember getting in the car saying, I'm not getting out. Like, you're not leaving me. We drove back, and he never. You know, we went home and. And it was just a. It was an aw. It was just a lonely. I mean, the feeling of loneliness still haunts me. Like, it still really haunts me. It did. And some of the families in the area knew what was going on, started calling my dad, saying, hey, you know, he's getting to this age. You should. You should enroll him in soccer, you should enroll him in sports. And so. But I lived out in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I was 10 miles from anywhere that. Where there were other kids. So we had. We still had snowmobiles, and my dad had this kind of remnants of. Of toys. We had a. We called it the toy barn. And there was three wheel. He bought me a three wheeler. And. And we had a pond in our front yard. And. And I would spend my time in the woods with a BB gun or fishing in the pond.

And I would talk. My mother just talked to her, and I had this relationship. And when I did my first ibogaine journey, I was back in that. In the woods, walking around. And it put me back into those. Those moments. And I didn't feel lonely when I would go in the woods and talk with her. I just. That was kind of my. My sanctuary. I never felt lost. I felt where I was supposed to be. I felt loved. And then my dad started signing me up for sports. You got to stay busy.

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Everything. Just have a convers. I would be like, what kind of tree is that? I quite literally like, where are those bugs from? Like, is that an ant hill? What do you think? Like I was a kid having a. Just a conversation with somebody who wasn't there but they were. That makes any sense. It was like this. And then I found her. She had a guitar and there was. I found her guitar and I picked it up and I started trying to play it. And I went to my dad, I said, hey, can I take guitar lessons? He's like, no, he. Anything I had to do with music, he was like, I think it was too painful for him. At one point I said, hey, can I, can I, can I try acting? My dad was like, no, not doing that. You can do sports. And so I was kind of this lost kid sitting in my room and playing around in the yard alone, talking to his mom. And we had a couple kids in the neighborhood and a couple families, the supers that lived across the street from me. Mrs. Super would step in and she would pick me up on Sundays and take me to the Methodist church and try to try to put me in Sunday school.

And nothing really took for me, but she cared enough. And in the mornings for school, I would walk up and I would get on the bus with David, her son, who's a wonderful human being, and she'd feed me breakfast and I'd get on the bus and go to school. The summers, my dad, when he was successful attorney, had joined country club. At this point he was, we're still a member because he had paid the initiation fee, but we weren't, wasn't active in it. And they had a swim team. So one of the parents said, you should, you're still a member there, you should sign him up for the swim team. And so my dad signed me up for the swim team and instead of driving me the 10 miles, he was like, I bought you a bike. So you're going to get up in the morning, you're going to ride to swim team practice. So I get up in the morning, it was about 10 or 11 mile ride and crank on the pedals, I get to swim team practice. And that's where I had my first group of friends, buddies that were, you know, we'd meet there the first thing in the morning and swim for an hour.

And the coach at the time was a guy named Dave Utley. And Dave is this larger than life person to me. He was a, he'd break, broken every record in swimming at Fairview, where we were in school, he'd been, went to Penn State, swam for Penn State, was accepted to Harvard Medical School. And in the summers he was coaching and he took, he deferred it so he could run the Ironman. And I was like, what's an iron man? And like, well, you know, you swim two and a 2.2 miles or whatever it is, and then 100 mile bike ride and then marathon. And I was just like, this guy is going to do that, like, what? And he immediately, he was just cool. He's just cool, man. He was just a cool, wonderful human being. Like, he just has this calmness about him. And so he was the first guy that I was like, I want to be like him. Whatever he's doing, I want to be like him. And so I started taking swimming a little bit more seriously. And he taught me how to swim. And since I took to swimming and I was getting pretty good, my dad signed me up for another local swim team.

In the winters, I'd also play. He signed me up for soccer. I said, hey, I want to play baseball. My grandfather and my, my mother's father was a baseball player. My dad didn't like that side of the family. And he was like, you're not playing baseball, you can play soccer. So he dropped me off at soccer practice and I started getting good at soccer. And then he said, you're going to go to wrestling practice. Wrestling. Okay. Pennsylvania. Everybody wrestles in Pennsylvania. Signed me up for this little club team called Gerard Barbarians. And we practiced in the, in the boiler room at the middle school. And that was the real deal, man. I remember going to my first practice there and it was hardcore calisthenics, hardcore. You know, we started out with a 100 push ups, 100 sit ups, chest spins, jumping jacks, then we go and we'd run for 30 minutes and then round rob and work on moves. And I mean, it wasn't. It was gritty. She started wrestling, I started getting good at wrestling. And every time, you know, and then wintertime, the one thing my dad liked to do was ski. And so we would go to this little resort called Peak and Peak.

Not a big resort, 250 vertical feet. And my dad loves skiing, so I was like, I wonder if I. If I get good at skiing, like maybe he'll like me or want me around. So I. I started trying to get really good at skiing. Some of my friends raced. I said, hey, can I ski? Race? My dad was like, it's a lot of money. I got a lot of hand me down stuff. And the first year I raced, I placed in the state. Wow. And then second, I placed both years. And I was getting up towards around 8th grade. Skiing was like the first thing that I felt, this confidence. I would go up there and I was like, I belong here. This is my place. And I love freestyle skiing. But back then there was no freestyle skiing. Peak didn't have it. I didn't really like the racing. All was good at it. But there's freestyle skiing. I wanted a freestyle. So I was spinning helicopters and I was about 13 years old. One day I'm in the lift line and this guy looks at me and he's like, hey, man, I saw you rip on the bumps.

About five years old than me. His name's Paul. He's come ski with me. I was like, okay. And this guy who's five years older than me, turns out he was an amazing motocross rider. He ran with this other guy who was Trevor Vines, who. Trevor was on the first Sobecan freestyle rider, if you remember the first Sobecan, it was. He was Trevor from wherever. Trevor and Paul and. And his crew of buddies, Sean and Sean. And they were five years older than me. And because I was a good skier, they just kind of. Paul took me everywhere and he said, you got snowmobiles, you can come ride with us. He'd drive out and pick me up. I mean, he's no reason to know each other. He just genuinely cared about me. And he meant the world to me. He was just. He became another big brother. And so it was like Dave in the summers. And then I had Paul and got into skateboarding. I got just any sport that I could get my. Any sport that I could do in skateboarding. Since I was out in the middle of nowhere. We had a cement driveway and started building ramps and getting good at skateboarding.

This was like Tony Hawk. This is, you know, early 90s. And I just. I got into everything that was skating. It was alternative. Started running with a guy named Bobby Jensen. And Bobby was this amazing swimmer. I mean, like, he could have been an Olympian, an amazing skateboarder, and his whole family, Junior Gretchen. And they were just these awesome athletes, and they were. And we have small community, so everybody kind of knew each other. And, you know, I would bounce around to the different families, and people kind of knew my background. So they, you know, I'd sleep on a couch, they'd feed me here or there. The. A lot of the families in the area used to call themselves the herd. And they were this, you know, the mom, the Mrs. Zone and Mrs. Ferrier and Mrs. Thomas and Mrs. Stevens. They all knew my background. And I didn't know what they knew, but they made sure I was fed and they made sure I was, you know, loved and taken care of. And so I, you know, as I. As I got towards high school.

Let's backtrack.

Yeah.

When did the question start for you about who your mom was? I mean, she died at 10 months old.

Immediately. We were 10 months old. My first memories, when my dad. When it was just my dad and I at the house, I would ask her, ask him about her. What was she like? Who was she like? Tell me about her. And he always, like, shied away from the question. It was such a painful thing for him. Just. He. So I would ask anybody I could find. People come up to me, oh, I knew your mother. Like, what was she like? Tell me about her. Oh, my God. She would. She was, you know, so charismatic and beautiful, and she was such a great musician. And they'd tell me some random story about her showing up at a party and grabbing a guitar and singing. And I was like, oh, my God. My dad was just. He was a very reserved. He was really nice to other people, was interesting. He was very nice to other people, but it wasn't really nice to me. And I just kind of felt like anytime I could get away, I would get on my bike and leave. Ride to swim practice, go hang with my friends there, take my skateboard in a backpack, somebody be building a new ramp somewhere, and we go skate.

I just kind of got. Tried to get away from him. And in the winter, skiing was my way to get away. And it was this constant theme when I was younger of just get away. And he. He started dating another woman, and she moved in. And her son John, great guy. He was like a punk, hardcore punk. He was into alternative music. And I remember he didn't really live with us ever, but he kept stuff at our house. And he had this box of tapes. And I never knew what the bands were. They were just like mixtapes. Back in the day, remember, we used to have to make a mixtape. You just go through all these mixtapes, and I put them in my stereo, and, you know, I'm listening to, like, Black Flag and. And all these Sex Pistols and all these punk bands, and I'm just, like, listening to the story. First heard the Cult, and I started to foster this love for music. It just came, like, I'd go to where I was drawn, and music really became this sanctuary for me and a couple of my other friends got into. I'll never forget it.

We were going on a swim team trip, and we were sitting on a bus, and my buddy's like, you got to hear this. And I put on little. Remember those little puffy headphones? I put on little puffy headphones, and I heard Black Dog for the first time. Led Zeppelin. And I was like, what was that? What is this magical sauce you just. You just poured into my ears. And it was like, oh, my God. And Andy and Craig were. They. They were musicians. Andy was a drummer, Craig was. Craig's. Plays everything. I was like, this is amazing. And so I was like, what are you listening to? And. And so it was like this time where music started to. You know, we didn't have Spotify, you know, like, you. If you. You had to save up money to go buy a, you know, a tape, you'd go to the mall and you'd, like, go through the tapes and you'd be like, oh, I'm gonna get this tape. And you. You listen to everything, right? Like, you listen to both sides and. And over and over and over again. You read the inside cover. Like, what was going on?

And, like, so music became this, like, haven. Sports and music. How do I, like, disappear from this world that I don't really feel like I belong in or I don't feel like I'm wanted in? And, yeah, I talk about music a lot because it really was this, like, safe haven for Me?

What about Beach? Did you ever hear from her again?

Yeah. She moved to Texas and she started dating a guy, and she was going to get married, and I was supposed to fly down to be in the wedding, to be there. And before the flight, my dad said, flights, the trip's canceled. And I was like, what do you mean the trip's canceled? And he said. Sat me down. And he wasn't really, like, nice about it. He goes, look, the guy she's marrying doesn't want you there. He doesn't want any part of her past. He wants a fresh start with her. And, you know, the. This part of me that woke up that day was like the protector. And I was like, okay, I want her to be happy. I remember looking at my dad like, you treated her like shit. You were not nice. You were mean to her. And she was a young girl. She was like 21. And she stepped in between me and you, and she made sure that there was no gap when my mom went away. And I wanted her to be so. I wanted her to be happy, and I respected that. I never pursued her after that. And driving down here, I talking to God in the car, and I said, should I talk about Beach?

And I looked down at my thing and it's 333 miles to Nashville. I'm like, okay, a few more miles go by. I pass an exit. This is Beach Road. B, E, E, C, H. I'm like, she's. This needs. This needs to be said. I was debating on whether bringing up this part of my life, but I know she's been brokenhearted over this all these years. You know, she had her 68th birthday two days ago, and her brother still keeps me kind of informed. And I've let her be. It's always been heartbreaking knowing that she was walking the earth and she didn't want or couldn't. I don't know if she wanted to, but I. I want her to know that I forgive her. I know. I know there's something. I feel it. But I forgive her. She did everything she could, and I wanted her. I hope she had a great life. I do. I hope she's happy. And, you know, and I wouldn't be here telling you this story had that not happened. It set me on a course that I'll never be able to, in a weird way, thank her for that. I forgive her.

Yeah. In that day, you know, it's interesting, I go back to that day, and that was a day that when I felt like nobody was coming for me, she I lost my mom, too. She died in my head. I go, she's gone. Like, this is what it's. I was supposed to feel this. You know what I mean? Like, it ripped me apart. Like she had left. But that leaving, like, opened up the wound of knowing that, like, my real mom was gone and my dad didn't want me. And it was just like a. And I don't. I don't think he didn't want me because he was, like, mean. I think he didn't. He felt like he couldn't do anything for me. Like, he was so. He felt so bad about himself that. He felt so bad about himself that he felt like he couldn't bring anything to the table. And he turned to me, and he was really hard on me about everything. Every sport. You're not good enough. You're not fast enough. You got to be better. Why'd you get second place? Second place? The first loser. You gotta be first. And I became maniacal.

And. And then the winters, I would hide up in the peak. My buddies would pick me up, we go skiing, and I could. I could be free on the slopes.

Is your dad still alive?

No.

Did you see that just happen?

What's that?

Lights just shut off.

I know. Yeah. He passed away my freshman year at the Naval Academy.

Let me ask you this. And you said you were talking to your mom in the woods?

Yeah.

Do you still do that?

No, I don't. Why? Because I've realized that that voice in my head was God. She's with him. And that's what that has been. That's what brought me peace.

Do you think she's ever spoken to you since she's passed?

I think she's had a hand in protecting me at every turn. No doubt in my mind. You go back and you think, like, you know, after I got hurt, and you realize, like, you have 30,000 neurons in your heart, and you got 30,000 neurons plus in your gut. And you have this access of, you know, your brain's telling you one thing, your heart's telling you one thing, your gut's telling you one thing. And I was always really attuned to that, I think, as I'm an empath, and I was always good at reading people and situations and finding my way. But because of that voice, I always trusted in that access, I guess. And there was definitely times where I'd be like, man, we're not going down that road in Baghdad. I'm gonna keep it on straight. And then, you know, I do find out, like, the next day and M1 got IED on a culvert on the road that we didn't go down, you know? And I just thought to myself, like, I'm just gonna keep. I'm gonna keep. Keep in touch with that. With that access and all my big decisions in life. I always knew what the right thing was.

I didn't always do it, but I always knew what the right thing was. And I think that voice. And for years, I've always thought she was watching over me.

Do you think your dad has ever spoken to. Since he's passed?

I don't know if that was him. I just turned the lights out.

I think it was.

I think it was, too.

How does that feel?

You know, He. He was a. It's funny. When I got to. When I got to high school, spring sports. I played soccer in the fall, played. I swam in the winter, and we skied. And then spring came along in high school, and there was track. I'm like. I walk on the track team. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm a freshman. I see this pole vault thing, and I'm like, I'll try that. I start pole vaulting. And I sucked at it. I mean, like, dude, it was embarrassing. It was like the coach. Coach Keck at the time, he's like, oh, my God. You gotta. You gotta just go jump in the sand pit. Like, you just. This is. This is. You're embarrassing yourself. And my dad. My dad would come to my sporting events, just sit in the corner, never say anything. He came to a track meet, and after my first track meet, he goes, we got in the car. He goes, you need to quit. This is embarrassing. I was like. And I remember thinking to myself, I looked at him and I was just like, you. I'm like, I'm not quitting, man.

I want to figure this out. And I go back to. I go back to practice the next day, and Keck would be like, oh, my God, like, you're back. And I think my freshman year, I jumped like. I'm not kidding. I jumped 7ft, 8ft, you know, And I wasn't fast. I wasn't. I wasn't a good sprinter at the time. I went through this growth spurt. I was like this. I couldn't really run, you know, when you're a kid. I grew, like, 10 inches. I went from being like 5 foot to 510 in 12 months. And when you'd grow like that, you just become gangly and slow and uncoordinated. And my dad's like, what is? You are. I was horrible soccer that year. I was horrible swimming that year. I was horrible at track. My dad, I was just like, and your grades suck. Like, you. I don't even know what to do with you.

Like.

And he was just like you. You got to figure something out. And the next year I started, got a little bit my legs underneath me in soccer, get a little bit together and swimming. And then track season starts. My dad goes, you're not doing it. You're not doing it. I can't. I'm not. I'm not going to support this. Like, you just got to stop. You're embarrassing. So I went, I jumped, I jumped, I jumped. And then my dad wouldn't come to any meets. And then we had another jumper. My name was Ty Baird. Ty was just this amazing athlete. Everything Ty touched, he was just like, unbelievable. Unbelievable soccer player, leading scorer, unbelievable basketball player. And he's pole vault and jumping like 13ft. And he was just a natural athlete, light on his feet. And here's me, like, just like stumbling all over the place. Ty, it turns out he had a degenerative back problem and he was having all these back pains. And the middle of pole vault season, they said, hey, you have to have your spine fused and you can't jump anymore. And I showed up to practice and it was cold and rainy and Ty was sitting there.

And I walk in and my coach goes, okay, so I have you. He goes, I want you to measure at eight laps, plant the pole. I'll make sure you hit the pad. And I was like, what? I mean, it's a 14 foot pole. And I'd been jumping in the sandbox. Like, I mean, this is straight out of like crowded kid. Like, you know, wax on, wax off. I'm jumping in the sand pit. Well, I'm like, is this going to work? Like. And then now I'm holding at the end of a 14 foot pole, and he wants me to run as fast as I can plant this thing. And he's going to make sure I hit the mat. And I remember standing back there and I'm just like, all right, you know what? I just had this moment where I'm like, I can do this. I don't know why I thought that. I run down, plant the pole. And it happened. And it didn't just happen, like in a light way, like, everything just fell into place. And that day I jumped 13ft. I'd never even gotten off the ground before. Wow. And I go to jump at 13ft and I went into the next day in school, I had one of the other track coaches, and that happened like 6 o' clock at night.

So I go to the next day, and one of our soccer coach was also one of my teachers. And he. And the track coach, I'm like, hey, Mr. Double, I jumped like 13ft last night. And he's like, no, you didn't. Like, I just watched you last week. Like, you can't even. You couldn't even get onto the mat. I'm like, no, I did it and went back to practice the next day. And I remember that the pole vault record at the time was 14ft. And I was like, I can do this. Like, I can do this. My dad, I said, dad, I'm really getting good at pole vault. He's like, you got to quit. I'm not supporting this. So I became maniacal that year. I jumped at the county meet in the district. Mean, I jumped 12, 6. Didn't jump as high as I wanted to, but. And you get to 12,6 in. In Pennsylvania, you're kind of. People start to notice, mostly because your track season's so short. You know, anywhere else in the country, you can. You can jump all year long, but you have two months or three months to run track. And so that.

That summer I started working with my coach. And my dad was mad that I was working with my coach all the time. And that winter I stepped. There was another. My coach was like, hey, I think he's. I think you can actually do this. He called the other coach from Joe Sanford, from McDowell, and he says, can Pete jump with you guys and indoors in the winter? And Joe was like, yeah. And Joe, another Christian, just absolutely the best human being I've ever met in my life. And I don't say that lightly. Like, Joe Sanford, he. I. He just is. Everybody in Pennsylvania knows Coach Sanford. He was a football coach at McDowell. He was a. He played at Edinburgh as well. And. But he's like ball of positive energy, and he would run his pole vault. He was turning out state champions and record holders. I show up as a Fairview kid, and Joe just. And so I got Joe and Keck, when my dad's just like, yes, you suck at this. And he's not coming to any meets. Jump all winter. And actually this summer I went to Slippery Rock pole ball camp.

And spring comes around my first meet my junior year, and I jump 14ft, 14, three. And I break the. The record, the school record that had been there since 1976, a year before I was born. And I Was like, this is, I'm doing this. And that year I ended up. I won almost. I won every, every meet I entered. I went to states, I tied for first and lost on misses. Jumped 14ft that year.

Damn.

And senior year comes along. I'm. I'm blowing this thing out of the water. Like I'm gonna take this as far as I can go. And jumped all winter long. Senior year, same thing. Broke every record at every meet. I jumped In, I jumped 15, one districts, one states. And my dad came to that, the state meet. The only time he came to see me jump. And he shows up at the state meet. Weather sucks. I actually jumped the lowest I've ever jumped in that year. I jumped at the state meet and I think partly because my dad was there and I jumped 14ft and I tied for first. But I won on misses that year, even though I had jumped 15:1 the week before. I jumped 15.1. Anyways, it was like this, I don't know, pole vaulting became my way of rebelling. Like, I can do this. In the summers. My dad's, he got work and there's Presque Isle State park, which is, it's a beach. It's actually the most visited state park in Pennsylvania and in the country. And it's like six miles of beaches in Erie. And they have lifeguard that go out every day and, and guard the beaches in the summers.

And that was where like all the elite swimmers in Erie would go work and you'd morning workouts. It's kind of like the team should show up and you'd have a morning, you know, run, swim, run. You get your beach assignments and you headed out to your beach and you were there until 8 o' clock at night and you know, rinse and repeat the next day. And my dad's like, you're gonna work at the beach. That's where all the swimmers work. I know you like this track thing, but you're a swimmer. And I was my junior year, I think I went to states in four events, a couple relays, a couple individual events. And my senior year I did the same thing. My Coach, unbeknownst to Mr. Jensen, I didn't go to any practices. Then I showed up first districts and go to states in a bunch of events. He's like, you set a horrible example. I was like, I'm pole vaulting. But in the summers I was working at Presque Isle. And that first summer before I broke the record was my rookie year as a lifeguard. And all these guys are like, all swimmers that I looked up to in the town from all different schools.

And it was a real. It was the first time I felt responsibility. You're looking at a beach, and Bob north and John Dahlstrand are still the managers out there, and they take it very seriously. You know, when I had started working there, we had never had a drowning on. On any of our beaches. And it was a. You know, there have been accidents since then, and everybody did their job, but it. You know, but at that moment, it was like, hey, we got a reputation uphold here. And, you know, you're joining this. You're joining this elite group. And I like that. Like, I like. I like feeling like I was being part of something that other people couldn't do. And so my. My rookie year, during Discover Presque Isle days, they pulled me off the beach I'm normally on, and they said, we're sitting at Beach 8. We're expecting, like, 5,000 people on the beach, and the water is just, like, jam packed with people. And I get out there and I'm like, oh, my God. And, of course, being the new guy, just like, the teams, they're like. Like, there's a big, nice lifeguard chart.

And they're like, yeah, you see the. See. See the last one on the end over there? That's, like, rickety and barely holding up. You go to that one. And so I wander down there, and I'm watching this, and I'm just, like, kind of overwhelmed with the amount of people that are in and out of the water. And you'd see people in the unguarded area, and you'd whistle them out. And I watch this guy run down the beach and stand up, and I put my whistle in my mouth. Like, I'm gonna whistle him when he jumps in the unguarded area. Gotta keep the people out of the unguarded area. Guy runs down the beach, he dives in, and I see him all of a sudden float up, and he's face down. And I see him start to shake a little bit, and I'm like. I knew right away. I'm like, he broke his neck. So I turn, I whistle to the head lifeguard. I jumped off my chair, grabbed my rescue tube, head straight down the beach, and everything just got, like, slow. I got to the guy, put him in a head chin splint, and I flipped him over, started taking his pulse with my other fingers as the other guards got there, and a rescue breathing mask on the end of my tube.

And I'm like, hey, get the tube out he's not breathing, doesn't have a pulse. And when I said that his family had come down the beach to see what was going on. And then this crowd started to form, like, a huge crowd, and I said, he's not breathing. Doesn't have a pulse, as the head lifeguard showed up with his radio. And then the crowd starts yelling like, get him out of the water. Get him out of the water. Then they start getting really mad. Like, guy comes in, he's like, I'm a doctor. He grabs him by the foot, and I was like, release his foot. And I was holding him in a head chin splint because I knew, like, listen, if I move this guy right now, he's going to be like, he's going to die, basically. I was afraid that it was a full. You know, sever the spinal cord, and we gave him two breasts, and he started breathing, but, like, seven times a minute. So I'm like, there's a spinal cord injury. We got to keep him in the head chains and chin splint. And then for about five minutes, it was this onslaught of people screaming like, get him out of the water, you stupid lifeguard.

What are you. You're gonna kill him. Everybody had been drinking, but I just. I remember just being like, nope, I know what we need to do here. And then I remember hearing the sirens as I'm laying in the water holding this guy, and I was getting really tired, like, dealing with the waves and the sirens and the jet skis. And everybody shows up, and we put him in a board. We sent him away. My boss, John Dullstray, walks up to me. He goes, all right, get back up on the chair. And I'm like, what? What do you mean? Get back up on the chair, dude. He's like, get back up on the chair. And they start questioning people as to what happened. And in my mind, you're just running through your mind. You're like, did I do everything right? You know, like. And the woman, his wife, about three hours later, shows up at the foot of my chair, and she says, I'm sorry. And I was like, what? Who are you? She goes, you saved my husband's life. And I said. And then I remembered her yelling at me. And she said, when we took him to the er, the ER Doctor said that he has a spinal compression, and had you moved him, there was fragments all around his spinal cord.

Had you moved him, he would have cut his spinal cord, and he would have either died or been permanently paralyzed. And I'm sorry. And I remember Just being like. I just had this moment where I'm like, I found something I'm good at. Like, when everything goes to, like, I'm good. Like, that was it. That was a fork in the road for me. I came home that night, and it was on the evening news. I remember walking in. I didn't say anything to my dad. My dad's like, you want to tell me something? I'm like, what? You don't. What, you don't care about me? He's like, I just. What happened at the beach? I was like, I don't know. Made a save. And the next day in the paper, it said. The title of the article just said, rookie lifeguard makes save. In the first line. It says, he was calm whenever, yelled. He saved his life. It was a quote from the man's wife. And it was a. That was leading into my senior year of jumping. And I just all of a sudden had this, like, when I was there, I. I just had this moment of calm and just patience where I'm like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be.

I know exactly what I'm doing, and I am meant to be here. I don't know how I knew that. It was like that feeling that someone was watching over me, and that led me into my senior year jumping. And that confidence kind of all of a sudden bled through. And around that time is when I first heard about the SEAL teams. And I remember, like, I'm going to be a Navy seal.

What did that. Before we get into that, I mean, what did it feel like? I mean, did your dad. Did your dad ever give you positive affirmation for that?

Never to my face. I mean, he. He was constantly saying, hey, listen, you need to be ready to do this on your own, because I'm gonna. I'm gonna die at any minute, and you're not good enough. You're not strong enough. You're not fast enough. Your grades suck. You got lucky. You know, my. My. When I tied. When I tied for first my junior year, I was still. That was right before the summer of working at the Presque Isle, my rookie season there. Came home and I was like, hey, I get. Here's my silver medal, state silver medal. And my dad goes, congratulations, you're the first loser. You should have been working. And I was like, okay, put it in the drawer. And I went, you know, and had my summer. And that. That happened during that summer. And that was like kind of a. That was the. I don't need you, man.

Did you ever get a Positive affirmation from him?

No.

All the way up until he died.

Yeah, man. When I graduated from buds, he came out to the graduation ceremony and it was over. I got my. You know, Bud's graduation certificate. And my dad takes it, folds it in half and puts it under his arm. He goes, why weren't you the honor man? And I was like. I just kind of looked at him like, whatever, man. And when I went to the Naval Academy, I said, dad, I got into the Naval Academy. He's like, why would you go there? What do you mean, why would I go there? He's like, why don't you get out and, you know, finish your time in the seals and get out. Go to Northwestern, you know, do something else. Why do you. Don't need that chicken? He called it chicken. You know, experience. And not one time until the. The day he died, I was. I just left class and I got an A on a calculus test. And my dad told me a story that the only class he dropped in college was calculus.

You got an A on a calculator.

I know, right? So I. I run into fifth wing and there's a pay phone. And I had a. I had a. I mean, this is way before cell phones, all that stuff. Like, I had. There's a payphone, and I had an AT&T calling card. And I was like, I'm gonna tell him I got a. A on a calculus test. And I call him up and he have an answer. I was gonna leave a message on the machine. And he said, what's up? And I was like, dad, I got an A on a calculus test. And he starts laughing and. And he goes. And he just had, like, a very calm way about him. And I said, I gotta. I just wanted to tell you that I gotta go. I gotta go to track practice. And he goes, I love you. And I said, I love you too. They never said that to me. And I hung up the phone. What I didn't know was he laid down on the couch and he died probably 15 minutes after that. That's the only thing he ever said to me that was, like, positive. The last time I physically saw him was at the Naval Academy.

He came down for a visit. His heart was giving out. I wanted to show him around, like, this isn't chicken shit. This is. This is a pretty amazing place. And we sat on Stribling Walk, and he said to me, I think you'll be all right. And I just kind of looked at him and I'm like, okay, you know? And it was. I Don't have any. I just remember thinking, like, when I'm a dad, I'm not going to be like him. That was in my head, when I'm a dad, I'm not going to be like him.

What would you say to your dad now if he was here?

I forgive you. A lot of lessons learned in his time. In this human experience, we learned them all. I think I ended up all right.

Why do you think he was so reluctant to give you any credibility or affirmations or.

I think he thought I was gonna quit pushing.

You think he was trying to prepare you?

I think he was. I think he was. You know, when he. When he died, I came back to the academy and it was like it never happened. I didn't think I'd had Jeremy and Brett and Johnny, but it was like. I remember feeling like alone in the world, like it was a really. Kind of an empty moment. And to the credit, one of my friends, families, Bob Ferrier, he met me for breakfast the day I got home from the academy and my dad was dead. And he goes, you're enjoying my family. I said, what do you mean? He goes, you're part of the family. You're one of my sons now. And Bob stepped up, and I just. I just put it behind me and I moved on.

Damn, man.

Yeah, it was pretty heavy. That was a lot as a kid and. But I do. I really do forgive him. I think he was doing the best with what he had. I think he was depressed. I think he was dejected, and I think he, you know, he.

He.

I don't know if he ever found his faith and that. That, you know, I pray that. I pray that he did. I don't know. It wasn't a bad. You know, I guess the way I tell it is he's. You know, it sounds like he was this horrible person. He wasn't horrible. He was just over there. He was. And he was always pushing. And I. When you're a kid, you want somebody with you. You know, maybe I could have. Maybe I would have been a better athlete if he'd have been more supporter. You know, maybe I would. Maybe I would have been a better student. Maybe I would have been better. I don't know. But I was like, I don't understand how you do that as a dad. I just don't. And, you know, when I. When I got in the Navy, I remember that he dropped. Well. I told him, I'm joining the SEAL teams going in the Navy. I don't care about SATs. I don't care about all that stuff. I'm not going to college. I had scholarship offers to Penn State, UMass for track and field. I'm gonna go be a SEAL. My dad's like, you'll never make it.

Don't do that. And that summer, the summer after I graduated, dead center in the Navy. And then I met a girl, and she had gone to Penn State. And I was like, yeah, maybe I can go to Penn State. Because it was. It was my first, like, girlfriend, and it was the first person that saw me for who I was. We like the same music. She introduced me to Steely Dan. Like, you know, like Steely Dan. Are you kidding me? Like, she liked Nirvana and Rush. Huge Rush fan. I love Rush. And so I kind of, like, I hesitated. And the last second I went to Slippery Rock. They had the pole vault program, and about six weeks into it, I had never been to class. And I was like, this is stupid. And she dumped me. She was like, you need to go figure it out. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And I went on this round trip. I got my car. I mean, we didn't have GPS's back then. I got my car, started driving west. I didn't stop till I got to San Diego. I wanted to see the beach.

I wanted to see Coronado. So I literally drove from Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania, swung through West Virginia and where my. My wife was actually going to school. And I saw her. She was just a friend of mine at the time. And then I disappeared. Nobody saw me for about three months. And I went to Coronado. I saw Buds, and I looked at the beach and I saw the training Bud's students running, went up in the mountains. I went to Mammoth. I went skiing, thought, maybe I can. Maybe I'll stop here. Maybe I can pursue this skiing thing. And then the voice was like, join the Navy. I hopped in my car and I drove all the way back and I drove straight to Penn State. I saw the Penn State Michigan game. Bianca Patuca was the running back. I don't know how I remember that, other than the fact that, like, Bianca Batuco, like, I was like, man, that'd be a rough name to grow up with. But I remember he was a running back for Michigan. And, yeah, I went back to Penn State to see a bunch of my friends who were going to Penn State at the time.

And you're friends with. You're good friends with Rhett. You just had Rhett on here. And I was gonna tell the story first because Rhett was on there. But this is one of the guys, a good friend I grew up with. He's quite literally the Van Wilder, the original Van wilder. He spent 10 years in Penn State and in fraternity. He was there 10 years a decade. Everybody calls him Reese. He's like Oprah. Like, he's like, a legend. And he was in this fraternity. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna go see Reese. And Reese is one of these guys that just does weird. And he ends up pulling stuff off like, you'll never. The first time I ever saw Pat Monahan sing, who's a singer for Train, was in Reese's basement in Fairview. And Pat Monahan was singing for Rhodes Gallery, and it was a Les Zeppelin cover band. And Reese's, like, five years older than me, and I'm like, oh, my God. That was the first time I saw. We had all these little, like, parties where the. That's where you, you know, got into the music scene. But Reese had. He was like, a legend for parties.

He just made stuff happen. So I'm like, I'll go. I'm go see Reese. So I go to the KDR house, and. And there's a bunch of pledges, and I. I'm like, hey, I need to see Reese. And they're all like, I'm not taking him upstairs. Like, come on. I need to see Reese. So finally, one dejected pledge is like. Takes me up to the top floor. Like, knocks on the door, and Reese is in there. He's like, enter. Open the door. It's like 10 in the morning. Reese has got, like, a. He's got, like, a bathrobe on. He's got a visor with, like, flashing lights, and he's got a beer in his hand. And he goes. And the plebe's like, this. Or the pledge is like, hey, this is peace. Gobel's here to see. And he's like, oh, Pete, come on in. And just as the pledge is about to leave, he goes, you're not going anywhere. Just get in here. Pick a pepper. And I'm like. I'm like, what is it?

He's like.

He's like, see these peppers? I've been drying them out for, like, six months. He's like, they're like, hottest peppers in the world. And this kid is just. He doesn't want to eat the pepper. So he grabs a pepper, and he's like. He's like, eat it. Pledge eats it. And he goes, all right, so what's going on? And I'm like, Looking at this kid who's just starting to like, dude. He's like, got. He's got snot coming out of every angle of his body. And I'm like, doesn't he need some water? And he's like, no, no, no. He needs milk, but he's not getting it for another two minutes. He's got to go for two minutes. I'm looking at Reese, and I'm like, dude, I'm going to join the Navy. I'm going to be a seal. He goes, ah, we got a guy out there. His name's Elvis. When you get out there, look for him. And I'm like, what? He goes, you staying tonight? And I'm like, no. He goes, well, anyways. Anyways, good luck. I'm like, are you sure he's going to be there? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been there a while, but, yeah, when you get out there, look for Elvis.

And I'm like, what the fuck was that? Fraternity. I get to Buds and check in 208, you know, it's like chaos everywhere. Everybody's running around and, like, I'm just kind of overwhelmed. Like, holy shit. And there's this one rollback who? The instructor. He, like, talked to the instructors, like, and they'd be like, hey, come here. And Rutherford on his shirt. And they, like, kind of respected him, and. And he was in rollback land. And I'm like. And I realized, like, he had been beaten to a pulp, like. And they were just like, we can't beat the guy any harder. He won't quit. So they stopped. They were just, like, respectful of Rutherford. Anyways, you know, we're going through getting your gear, and he ended up getting me a pair of udts. And he's like, yeah, give him a new pair of. And I was. And I'm like, why? Why do I get an up here? He goes. And all the other ones had the names through the back. You know, you stenciled your name on it, and there was, like, a name cross out, and another guy underneath. Cross out was all the quitters. He's like, that's bad luck.

He's like, you want a fresh pair of UDTs? So the first weekend meeting, I look over, and there's. There's Rutherford, and he's wearing a floral shirt, and he's got Roy Orbison sunglasses on.

And I'm like, that much has changed.

And I look at him, I'm like. And in my mind, I'm like, I think that's Elvis. So I Walk up to him, and I'm like, hey, man, are you Elvis? He, like, rips his sunglasses off. He looks at me, he goes, no one's called me that in a long time. I was like, reese from Penn State said to come find you. And he's like, reese, how's he doing? And I'm just thinking this, like, how these. The world just happened. And so when Reese, or you know, I became good friends with Rut during BUDS because of my friend Reese, who ended up being the manager of my band. Never.

Are you serious?

So Reese ended up being the manager of my band. He does everything. He's got a bar in Aspen. He's just one of these guys that does. But he's. He's a legend. He actually graduated in 10 years from Penn State. I think he got, like, an associates in, like, underwater fire prevention or leisure studies or whatever it was. But he's just. He's a great dude. He's. That's. That's how I met Rutherford. Anyways, I. I decided to go in the Navy, obviously. And I come. I drop out of slippery rock, go around the country, and I show up at my doorstep. My dad meets me at the doorstep, and he says, you're not coming in here. And I was like, you. You dropped out of college? He disappeared for two months. You. You can live somewhere, but it ain't gonna be here. And I was like, I'm joining the Navy. He goes, well, show me a piece of paper. I drive down to the recruiting station on State street, like, hey, I want to be a seal. And they're like, nah, you want to be a nuke. I want to be a seal. And they're like, yeah, you're no one.

No, no. No one does that, especially from around here. No one knows that. I take the ASVAB test, and I did. Did pretty well. And they're, like, trying to sign me up for new paper. I'm like, I just need a piece of paper. So they give me, like, you know, that first piece of paper, like, your intention to go to MEPs or whatever it is, take it home. And I have a MEP state. It's 1995. I have MEPs date in December, first week of December, and show it to my dad. He goes, all right, you can stay here until you go to MEPs. I go to MEPs and go through the process, and I sign up for the dive Fairer program, and I want to be a medic. And I want to be a medic, because on the beach, when I saved that Guy. I was like, I want to help people. Like, I want to go to the worst place, worst places on earth and be the guy that helps people. And so the die fair program, you went to Bud's and then you went or you went to boot camp, then you went to Buds and then after that you went to 18 Delta and got your medic thing, medic certification.

I was like, that's perfect. That's what I'm do. Come home, show my dad. Okay, enlisted. When's your shipping out date? January 26th. He goes, all right, you can stay here until then. On a day of boot camp, we drove down to Pittsburgh, stated John's house. The Steelers lost the super bowl to the Cowboys the night before. I remember that. It's like. And my dad put me in a cab, like an old beat up, you know, just nasty, old smelly cab. And I was like, later went through a camp. Damn, man. Never, never stepped foot back in that house. When I would come home, I would go stay with friends and stuff. Yeah, it was a, you know, in this, in the summers when I was younger, I would go visit my grandparents in Pittsburgh. My grandpa was this legendary guy. He was a CB in World War II, was on Saipan in Okinawa. And then he became a. Worked in the steel mills, pitched semi pro baseball and pitched. I think he pitched for pitch batting practice for the Orioles. It was just this larger than life guy. And I go down to visit them and my grandmother hated my father, hated him.

And she was Catholic and she was the expert of, of the shame and guilt, the Catholic shame. And every time I get down there, she would just tear into me about my father and I was just like, hey, like, I don't like the guy either. But like, you know, he's, he's still trying, you know what I mean? In the back of my mind I'm like, he's still, he's still giving it the college try. So I can't like, you know, I can't hammer him too hard. And she is on this thing about how my dad, you know, took. There was a life insurance policy and when your mother died, your dad, it was supposed to go to me and your father took it from me. And I was like. And you know, she'd show me pieces of paper. I hired a private investigator and I was like, as distant as my father was, he wasn't evil, you know what I mean? And it just really soured. I loved my grandfather and he was this wonderful human being. And you know, they were big on my. You weren't Baptized. Your father wouldn't allow you to be baptized, but we snuck you in and your mother and I baptized you in the Catholic Church.

And, you know, she would tell me these stories and I was like, I don't know, man. I just had a bad taste in my mouth about Catholics and Catholicism. It was my. And my grandmother kind of hanging over. Over us. It wasn't. It wasn't a nice. They were great people, though. I go down the summers, and my grandfather would take me to the Pirates games and. And in those summers, I would get to see my cousin Alex, who. He had been born in Lesotho. Our moms were best friends and sisters and went. We're college roommates. And he had been born in Lesotho, was being raised over there. His father was an international engineer put in water systems, and he was an Air Force combat vet from Vietnam. Was like part of the first CCT group. And I could see Alex in the summers. That was like my highlight. And he's. He was the one. One summer we decided we wanted to be SEALs and we're gonna do this. And Grandpa, he told me about the frogman Saipan. And I was like, that's cool, man. Like, I wanna swim ashore. I wanna. I wanna. The idea, like, being underwater and sneaky and being in places that nobody was and doing stuff that was cool to me.

And I was good in the water, both Alex and I. He went on to be a team guy as well, a couple years after me. And he retired from the teams as well. Still one of my. But that, you know, those younger years, it was. I couldn't wait to get out of there. But it was. It was music. I was playing in a band, playing these little bands. We would pick up and play, you know, Grateful Dead cover songs or Jam to Fish and then Plane. Urbana and Stone Temple Pilots and Led Zeppelin and, you know, I was, like, into music, into skiing and just anything to get away from my. My house. And then I just kind of walked in the Navy. I used to start a new life.

Doing all right?

Yeah, man.

Good.

That was a lot. I didn't know where I was going to go with my. I hadn't talked about beach and buried that.

Feel good about it?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'll bet this gets to her.

What's that?

I'll bet this gets to her.

I don't know if I wanna forgive her. I don't know if I want her. I think as a dad now I look at it and I'm like, I get it. She was a kid. She needed to Live her life. And I wanted that for I wasn't her biological son. So there was part of me that was like, understand that. But what I wonder if she understood is that, like, my bond was with her. Like, I didn't know the difference.

Yeah.

And that was what set. It just changed everything.

That's a lot to go through, man.

A lot as a kid, man. I think of that with my kids. Like, we'll talk about it later, but, like, one of the opportunity to be on set with Walker and be there for all of that. When we get into the Atom Project, dude, that comes full circle on dad. That movie is a father, son love story about going back in time and talking to your dad. Yeah. Wow. It. That's when you're like, okay, I think I've been a little bit hard on him in the beginning of this interview, because when all of a sudden, it was Walker and I alone for four months shooting this movie about fathers and sons, it was like, holy fuck. And, you know, Ryan Reynolds and Sean Levy, we all had these issues with our fathers, and. And we're all dads, and they. They have girls. Ryan finally has a son. But there were moments while we were shooting this that it was, like, just heavy. Heavy for all of us. But it was because, like, of the, like, the weight you're. You've been carrying. And then, like, I. I saw my father from his side for that time when we're shooting that movie.

You know what I mean? And I was like, oh, man, that must have been much harder than I thought it was. You know, I just saw him pushing me. But maybe he did feel what I feel for him. And there was a lot of forgiveness in that, of his distance and behavior. Like, he didn't. And I felt that, like, my scars from the teams. Like, I didn't want to pour that onto him, you know, like. And I was pulled back with my kids, and, I mean, that was that movie I still had. I got on a plane. Guy next to me pulls up Netflix, and he pulls up the Atom Project and watches it. And I'm like, watching this dude watch my kid, and he's crying, and I'm, like, crying next to him. He's like, you ever watch this movie? This movie's amazing. And I'm like, yeah, that's my favorite movie. And I don't tell him. I can't even say another word about it, as it's like the ultimate dad moment. You know, I'm watching somebody watch my kid. My kid changing the world in front of me. You're just like, whoa. Yeah. A lot of, you know, I talk about my childhood is tough, and I'm tough on my dad, but, man, if I didn't have the experiences that I've had, the failures that I've had, like, pulled me into, you know, the beginning of his.

His career and being home for that, that was so healing. It was like every day. So much every day. And Sean, we'll get into that. That was. Sean, those guys, that experience. I don't care about politics, all that stuff, man. We were there as raw human beings making a beautiful piece of art. And I watched a kid doing exactly what he was put on earth to do.

Pretty amazing.

Dude, you can't. I can barely watch that movie, man. Barely watch a movie. And it was funny. It was punctuated. But these moments, we would have just heaviness. And then Ryan's sense of humor. He's very much like a team guy. Like, is that our same. And you know what? He. He carries on around a lot of weight, too. I'm his dad, and he covers it up with humor. You know, we. We spend four months with people. You see things and feel things and talk about things. And, you know, I. That's. Everybody's going through that. Everybody's got an issue with their dad. I've found. And especially in driven people, like, what. What's. You. You find. You go to these elite groups, whether it's athletes, artists, veterans, whatever. You go to these elite groups called achieving people. And a lot of it comes from pain in the past that lights the path ahead. Like, I'm not going there. I'm going somewhere great. And you're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna be mad when I'm successful or whatever it is, you know? Yeah, it's. It's. Dad was. Again, I can't be. Can't be mad at him. Do you think you would be who.

You are today if he wouldn't push you like that?

No. No. Not on those moments and buds and you know what I'm talking about. Like, Monday night, when you're like this, like, back in the surf, you're watching the sunset over Point Loma, and you've just been through Sunday all day Monday, and you're realizing you got to go to Friday, and then you're watching guys just getting up in droves, walking away. You're like, him, him. I can just see him telling me, you're not gonna make it. Fuck this. And then the guy would quit, and I'd be like, see I'm tougher than him. I would have never. He put that, that's we talked about yesterday. Like would I would. I've been a team guy. I don't know. You know, maybe I would have been a musician from day one and I would have explored that part of my life. I would have never had a longing or a hole to fill and maybe it would have made me a better dad. But I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have had these moments that I've had because of the, and all the failure and all the pain that takes you right to that. Like why me? And then a moment like you're kid getting cast in that and you're just like, oh, you know Clay Pendergrass.

I was talking to me, I got. I forgot ID and we were hanging out and Clay, you know, we were having great careers and then. And Clay, one night we were sitting around, he goes, you would have died for me. And I said, yeah, of course. Overseas. Like, yeah. He goes, what would you do for your kid to have the opportunity that he has right now to follow his dreams? I was like, I'd go to. I go to hell to kill the devil with a spoon for that. He goes, so was it that bad? Would you change it?

Like, no.

It's like God put me right where he needed me to open that door and help him find that. That thing. Like, yeah, bring it on, man.

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Yeah, well, that's the first time I've been on a gun in a while. How long has it been? I don't think I've shot in a year. Every year. I have. I have my. I'll take out my stuff to our. We have a little property with some steel targets I set up, and I have some paper targets, and I do from the holster. And I'll shoot one full loadout.

I'm like.

Because that's where I'm at.

Yeah.

You know, that's how I look at it. Like. And then I assess. I'm like, man, I'm good enough.

Can I still get the job done?

Yeah. Can I still. Yes. All right, we're good. Nice.

Yeah, I like those lever actions now. I mean, I love all of them, but, yeah, I'm really into the. The lever actions right now. Just because we never. It's like, new to me. You know what I mean?

Well, again, like, I grew up shooting, you know, a.22 and a shotgun and a hunting rifle every once in a while. And so when I got in the teams, the. The pistol. Remember, the first pistol I ever shot was a P226. And. And then you'd go to Shaws and you know, you get talking points just drilled into your head and decock. Thumb holster retained. Like. And in that two weeks. So you're. That first trip to Shaw is that first two weeks, you come away as a. You're like, I am a gunfighter now. You know, it's like that. It. I think everybody goes through that. You're like, okay, can I. In the back of your mind, what am I going to do when it actually happens? But then you go to Shaw's and you're like, all right, I got this. Like, I can I. Yes, let's go. You know, like. And so I always stuck with it. The Sig and the. I'm like, I know it. I've shot so many. We've gone so many, you know, back to shot so many times that those two platforms are ingrained in my head. And I'm like, well, if I really need it, like, if I really need it, I want the one that I know I'm going to be able to manipulate in any frame of mind.

Yeah. So same here. Those are my go to's. But, you know, I like the other stuff, it's.

Oh, it's fun. I would love the. The lever action from a horse.

Dude.

I bet that would.

I mean, I haven't done that yet.

That's got to be. I've seen videos of that, and I'm like, you know that Teddy Roosevelt, man, that guy's just what a Teddy Roosevelt lever action. Like, all right, that guy was badass. He did it from a horse. I want to try it.

Yeah. Well, let's get back to you. So we were. We skirted around a little bit, got. Got your childhood, got a little bit of naval. Gather me a little bit of buds. But I want to talk about, you know. So I think where we left off was you told your old man, you're going to.

You're going to Buds. Yeah. I mean, I came home, I dropped out of school and showed up. Dad was like, no, you're not. You're not living here. Figure it out. Like, you are a official up. Dropped out of college. You don't have a plan. Like, what are you gonna do? And that went down. Went to the recruiter, got my first paperwork, did my tests, went, hit that.

We hit all of that.

Yeah. And then shipped off the boot camp and, you know, the first day of boot camp, you know that feeling when you get in there and you're like, I had, like, long hair. I'm like, cool. I like earrings. I'm like, right on. And then all of a sudden, I'm here to be in the Navy. I'm gonna be a seal. And they're just tear into you. This is 90 January 96. And your head shaved. You got 28 vaccination shot in you. And then you're laying in that mattress. You're laying on that mattress that's covered in plastic, like, alone in the dark. And you're like, what the Did I just do?

Yeah.

Anything boot camp goes. I remember about halfway through boot camp, they're like, hey, we got to take the SEAL test. Whoever's in this program. SEAL test. Tomorrow morning, you have to leave here at 2am to get in line for the swim. And I remember showing up. Well, let me back up. Before I joined the Navy. And I was like, I'm going to be a seal. There was one guy in my. My hometown. Two guys in my hometown. One guy was a guy named Jake Banta, who was, you know, Jake. Yes. So I forgot to tell you about this. So I'm on my. I'm lifeguarding on my beach now at this time, I'm a huge, like, I love Stevie Ray Vaughan. I got posters, Stevie Ray Vaughan all over my, my room. Huge into music. I bought an old Squire Strat saved up and I was like, I love, I love Texas blues. And like in the Steve Raymond. I'm lifeguarding on Beach 10 and they're having a lot. They're having a free concert and Jake's Blues is playing and I'm listening to this guy and I'm just like, holy. Like this dude is just tearing it up.

And on my life, bar break. I go back there and I had heard that he was. They're like, oh yeah, that guy used to be a seal. And I'm like, okay. And he's playing a left handed Strat and it was like, I forget what year it was. I think it's like late 60s strat. And I look and he's got a tiny little trident on like pinned to the front of the Strat and 69 on it. And he is just tearing it up. And I'm like, whoa. So he finishes up and I walk up to him and I'm like, hey man, are you a seal? And he's like, he just kind of looks at me. He's like, yeah, I was, but. And I'm like, I'm going to buds. And he goes, okay. I'm like, all right, well, whatever. So that's. I met Jake on the beach and where I'm working and another one of my friend's fathers was a seal. It was in Vietnam. It was a Naval Academy grad. His name was Dave Strong. And two tours in Vietnam and he ended up being the CEO of SEAL Team One. He was retired. He'd worked at a school teacher in town and both of his kids were in my school, went to my, was, you know, my high school.

We had a small high school, 130 kids per class. And so I go, called Mr. Strong. I'm like, hey, I want to join the SEAL team. So he has me over and sits me in the living room and he's just like, tell me what you want to do. And I said, you know, I want to go to buds. Tell me about buds. And he's like, listen. He's like, you know, it's three phases, all that stuff. He's like, but that doesn't matter. He goes, there's a few things that do matter. He goes, what sports did you play? And I give him my list of sports and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I know about your swimming and I know about your pole vault. And he'd Kind of followed me a little bit because of his kids. And he goes, when you go to Butts your first day, look around and you're gonna see all these guys that are just, you know, they look huge, they're strong, they're gonna be, you know, all these athletes. He goes, I want you to pick all the guys that you think are gonna graduate in your head. He goes, then on graduation day, because you're going to graduate, I want you to look around and make note of how many of those guys are still there.

And he goes, none of them are going to be there. He goes, I promise you this, because it's not the guys you think are going to make it are going to make it. He goes, you have everything you need. Don't second guess yourself. And I was like, okay. And with that, I went off the buzz. Those are my, the only two exposures I had to real seals were Jake and, and Dave. And so, you know, go through boot camp, go to Buds. And I was in class 208 and we had this amazing officer corps in 208. Mike McGath was a, he was a Naval Academy grad and he was a SWO for a few years on a PC. So he was a full lieutenant when he came, which he just had a different presence. He was really big. He was actually from Franklin, Pennsylvania, which was like 30 minutes down the road from me. And he was state champ of the 100 freestyle. He was an amazing swimmer. He had hands like coal shovels. And he was just, he was just calm. It was just a calm guy. And I kind of looking around and you know, we've got Tom Donovan, Russ Geraldi, we've got Brian o', Lavin, just this stacked crew and they're all Naval Academy graduates.

And then we had one guy named Adam Smith who was just this tall, really good looking dude, and he was just calm as a cucumber. And day one, everyone starts shitting on Adam and turns out that his dad was Admiral Smith at the time, so he was the two star. Well, you know, you get assigned a swim buddy, and Scobell and Smith aren't too far apart, so. So I end up being Adam's swim buddy. And BUDS took on a whole new adventure for me because everywhere he would go, they'd be like, smith, drop. Take your little buddy with you. I was like, I got an extra. Nobody knew who I was, but I was, you know, Adam's little, you know, buddy. And you know, he'd get called, he'd get pulled in front of the you know, the, the different Phase offices. You better not tell your daddy this goes around here. You think you're going to make it? You know? And I'm just like, damn, dude. And Adam was, he played football, played football for Coronado High School. He's like the captain football team, went to USD. He. And he's just this, he was bigger than life.

And I looked around, I looked around that class and we had some professional. I think there was a guy who was like Olympic swimmer. He quit like the first week or some other dude was an Ironman triathlon. He quit like the first week. And I looked at the guys that I'm like, I'm gonna listen. I picked like Mike, I picked Tom Donovan and I picked Adam. And I'm like, those guys are gonna make it. I'm following them. And that's what I did. I kind of just tucked in. And the water stuff was, was, I love going to the water. Anything in the water I was very happy with. No one was yelling at us. No one was beating Adam. And I like, I could you tie me up, throw me pool? Like, drum proofing is like, no one's yelling. Like, this is great. All I got to do is exhale. And in high school I, I was, I could do like, I could do like 100 yards underwater, four laps underwater. Before, in, before I, when I was my senior in high school. And so I was like mentally ready to do the water stuff, but I sucked on land.

I could do the obstacle course and I could do water I couldn't. The distance running, not so much. Sprinting's fine, but just the trudging in the soft sand, I just hated it. And they told me right away, they're like, listen, be good, but don't be great. Like you want to be, you want to pass and be. You want to be in the middle of the pack, maybe the upper pack. You don't want to stick out in anything. They're going to come find you. And once they signal you out, they're sing. You know, singularly, you're going to get, you get screwed over or you're going to get beaten. So I just kind of stayed in the middle of the pack until we did the 50 meter underwater swim. And so 208 was right around the time the movie the Rock came out. Remember the. Oh yeah, Sean Connery, Nicholas Cage, the Rock. Well, the command Master chief was in the movie. Buds was in the movie. And a couple of the instructors were in the movie. One being Instructor Haas, gigantic ripped African American guy. I mean he was just like. And he had this real deep voice, and the movie hasn't.

Wasn't out yet. And so we'd go on runs, and you'd hear instructor Haas on the speaker. You go, I'm gonna take pleasure in gutting you, boy. Like, what the is that? Everywhere we go, we go to the 50 meter under underwater swim. And I was like, all right, I got this. Like, the deeper you go, the easier it is to hold your breath. So everyone's freaking out. I hop in the pool, do my breathing exercise, get relaxed, hop in, you know, go down, do. Do my flip. And I stay real close to the bottom, and I'm just cruising along the bottom, touch the other side. And I come back, all of a sudden, I feel this tap on my shoulder. Like, look over, and it's Haas. And he's looking at me, and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, fine. I really slowly get to the end touch. I come up and I'm like, all right, good. That's over with. He's like, what? Scobell, we got ourselves a fish. I'm like. I was like, oh. So every time I went to the pool, it was like, hey, where's the fish at? We had this handful of guys that were great swimmers.

Mike was a great swimmer. Tom Donovan was a. He was captain of the water polo team at Navy. It was just beast. And there was a couple of us that were swimmers and Nick Hawks, who Dave mentioned. We were the two young guys in the class. He was 17 and I was 18, turned 19 that year. And so it was. That whole adventure was like, you know, the other thing I was music colors those times in my life. That's how I go back. And in that summer, Metallica Load came out, and I had enough money. Remember, I was like an E2 showing up to buds. And I had enough money. I went to the exchange on nab and I bought an alarm clock that had a CD player in it, and I bought one album, and it was Metallica Load. And there was a song on there, hero of the day, and I had that as my wake up song. It's like. And every day I would hear the spinning up of the CD as a buzz. You're like, fuck. And then that song would start playing, and that was kind of punctuated that time.

And I was just like a sponge watching. And nothing was. You know, the evolutions are hard, but nothing is. It's just the amount I think, you know, it's evolution. To evolution. To evolution. And we get to Hell Week. And you know that everybody has their Hell Week story. And I think it was like Tuesday night and it was Wednesday night. They were serf torturing us. And the sun was setting and it was. If you look in the paper, the Coronado paper said, big Wednesday. Biggest waves in 50 years. Like, of course, wake of summer, Hell Week. Of course we're gonna get these huge waves and we're getting. We're getting turf tortured. And Instructor Schmeck, I'd remember this the clearest day. Instructor Schmeck's like, who's gonna quit? Well, you know, Bob, they do the whole bullshit, who's gonna quit? And I was served to. I was locked arms with Tom Donovan. And Tom, out of the blue goes, whatever, punk. And there was this pause. And then over the bullhorn was. Who the was that? Tom looks at me, he goes, that was a bad idea. And he gets up, he's like, it was me. It was me.

And Tom is my Boker leader. And I'm like, oh, no, they're going to start beating him. And if they. If he quits, like, that's my guy, you know, like, he's my bow crew leader. And they send us back out and, you know, we. We reorganize and we. We paddle out and they're just. They beat Tom mercilessly. I remember the trucks going down the beach and, you know, his feet up on the bumper is getting wet and sandy, and in my mind, I'm just praying. I was like, please, God, don't save him. Save him. I'm like, and we come in, they put him on the right before we do Surf Passage on Chief's beach. They put him on the back on the boat. And Tom was like, all right. He's like, that guy is just born to be a leader. And he's like, all right, guys. And I'm like, are you. You know, is he okay? We paddle out and we see these waves roll in. And I'm just like. We start getting closer and closer, and the sun's going down and like, these waves are like, at like two boat lengths vertically. And I'm watching the back of the waves, and we're like sitting out there and they're giving the signal to come in.

And I'm just like, what the is this? And Tom's like, ready, paddle. We start paddling. And I. The one of my only, like, vivid memories of Hell Week was Tom. The boat picking up. And then I was number one man. I was on the. I was on the port side, number one Man. And I watched Tom just go that way, and the whole boat just went. And it was like, it was just in every direction. And somehow I got my foot hooked under one of the. The cross members, and I just got drug all the way into shore, like, with the boat, like, just gasping for no paddle. And I was just like, what? And the instructor's like, yeah, what made it stand there looking around, and it's like a sea of bodies. And that night, you know, you do the fire thing and you're telling the story, make us laugh. And that night, every single person they sent to the surf, they sent Tom with. And I'm like, oh, they're. They're trying to. Like, they're trying to break them. And they're like, hey, you know, you tell a story. We're down to probably 25 guys at this point.

Every story, fail. Go hit the surf. Take. Take Donna with you. And I'm just watching Tom, and he's just shivering, and it's getting colder and colder. And then they have us dig a hole. And our boat crew loved him, and we were like, tom, get in here. Throw him at the bottom of the hole. And we're like, all right, everybody pee. And, you know, hell, we. After that, it was like, Tom was just this resolute guy, and I saw it in his eyes, like, he's been quitting. I'm like, I'm not quitting. And, you know, made it through hell week and made it through second phase and third phase. I mean, everybody's got a thousand bud stories, but the bud stories that I always took away were the people that affected me personally. Like, that made me, like, the day. But leaves of the world, the Jake Bantas, the Dave Strongs, the Tom Donovan, the Adam Smith. What I saw in them that I wanted to try to emulate in myself and. And Mike McGath. And we got to the end of buds, and, like, I knew Mike and Tom had gone to the Naval Academy.

And I was like, I think I want to go to the Naval Academy, whatever those guys did, like, I want to. I want to do that. And in the back of my mind, I was like, my dad always said, well, you can join the team, but, you know, get a degree at some point. And I was like. And I remember my high school gpa. And I was like, it's probably not going to work out so good. Graduate, we go to jump school. Jump school's pretty uneventful, except for. Except for hawks hanging a banner off the big tower and all the seals always getting in Trouble, check into SEAL teammate and get thrown in training while we're waiting for back then STT and the training at Seal Team 8 at the time was just a bunch of guys who went on to be legends, one of which was Jeff Tobos, Turbo. And, you know, you're. When you're a new guy in training, you don't have your trident yet, and, you know, you just do everything. And I remember getting there like, well, actually, what happened was I. I checked into 18 Delta and they said, you're going to be here a year before you class up.

And I was like, a year? You're 19 years old. Like, I don't have a year to waste. So I literally got on the horn and I called. I called the quarter deck at Seal Team 8. Like, I dug up the number and I was like, is there a command career Counselor there? And Rich Black gets on the phone. He's like, who are you? And I'm like, I'm Seaman Scobell. I'm at 18 Delta. I've got a year. Is there any way I can get orders to seal Team 8? And he's like, makes a few phone calls, and all of a sudden the set of TAD orders comes in from through the 18 delta. And the seal that was a rep there is like, I have TAD orders for you to seal team 8. A bunch of guys, Gary Ellis, being one of my class, had gone to Team 8 and so had Mike Mcath. And so, you know, kind of politicked a little bit. And they got me orders and I checked in and I started doing team guy stuff, you know, like, hey, we're gonna. We're jumping tomorrow. And I got like, all five jumps in a day, and I got my gold wings, and.

And, you know, we're gonna go do VBSs at the time. And you, you know, hey, let's got set up. Some kid got thrown in a stack, and you're like, this is. This is cool. Like, I wanna. I wanna do this. I don't want to go to that 18 delta course for a year. And. And so Rich Black's like, hey, listen, if you just go up and get. Go to quartermaster school, you can get your rate and you can just stay here. You don't have to go to 18 Delta. And I was like, all right. They sent me up to quartermaster school. And I was like, well, in the back of my mind, I was like, if I apply to the Naval Academy, I gotta, like, do well in one of these schools. So I went into quartermaster school thinking, which is being a Navigator. And I ended up finishing first in the class and being the honor grad or whatever from QM school. And I came back from that, and I looked at all the programs that were available, and there was the rotc, Seaman, Admiral, and the Naval Academy. And I was like, then there was an age limit on it.

And so I talked to Rich Black, and I'm like, like, I want to apply the Academy. And. And. And I. I'm like, I just. I graduated buds. It was first in my class in a school pole vault. State champion, good athlete. And he's like, dude, that doesn't. We don't send seals to the Naval Academy. Like, it just doesn't go that way. Well, I'm like, what would I have to do? And he's like, you're gonna have to get some letters of recommendation. You're gonna have to go up there, visit. There's like a whole process. So I called Adam Smith, who was my swim buddy in buds, and I was like, hey, man, I'm gonna apply to the Naval Academy. Do you think your dad would write me a letter? And he's like, I don't know. Let me call my dad, but I'll be happy to ask for you. And 10 minutes later, my phone rings, and I'm sitting at home, and it's Admiral Smith. Hello, Is this Pete Scobella? I'm like, hey, this is Admiral Smith. And I'm like, what? He's like, he's like, adam called me. He said, you won't apply to the Naval Academy.

He said something about you being track and field. I said, yes, sir. I was. I won't State champion in the pole vault. He's How I jump. I jumped 15, 1. He's like. He's like, you know, when I was at the Naval Academy, I was captain of the track team. And I said. I thought to myself, I'm like, this could be good for me. He goes, and my coach is still the coach there. Al Cantello, what are your grades in high school? And I was like, well, I get, like, a 2.3. And I. And I didn't take the SAT. Well, I did, but I was. I only showed up, like, halfway through, and. And, you know, I was. He's just like. Hangs up the phone. He calls me back. He waits. Like a day goes by. He calls me back, he goes, drive up to the Naval Academy. You're going to meet with Al Cantelo. I drive up the Naval Academy. Now, Cantelo is this legendary Navy track coach. He was an Olympian. He's from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He was a Olympian, javelin thrower and coach. At the time. He was coaching both cross country and distance at Navy.

And he's the. He. We used to have cantellisms. He just had these one liners that would fly out and he was just to the point. It's like, drive up the Naval Academy and knock on the door and he's just like, like, come on in, sit down. Say, I talked to Ray. So I'm like, that must be the Admiral's first name because it's Admiral to me. So I could talk to Ray and he said, you're a 15 foot pole vaulter. Tell me more about your pole vaulting. So I told him my background. He's like, he's like, you can jump Division one. He goes, now tell me about your grades. And I was like, well. And I'd got my transcripts at the time. I went back to my high school and my guidance counselors. I was like, hey, can I get my transcripts? They're like, why? I'm like, because I'm applying to the Naval Academy. They're like, shoot, you're never getting a Naval Academy. And I was like, well, show it to him. He's like, oh, my God. Well, fill out the paperwork, we'll see what we can do. And I go back to the team. I'm like, whatever.

At least I tried, you know what I mean? But I remember walking on the yard and being like overwhelmed with the architecture. Remember the first time I walked there and I was like, I want to be part of this. I'm like, that's what made Tom and Mike who. They were like, there's something about this place that makes you want to be better than who you are. And I just felt this, like, calling to the Academy. And oh, yeah, you had your trident. And I already had my trident. I just gotten my Trident. And so I went back and I'm in the platoon and we're doing BBSs and I'm actually in al platoon with another one of your guys. And I come back from BBSS one day and the admin officer was a senior chief. She's like, meets me at the quarter deck and she's like, you've been accepted to the Naval Academy. And I was like, what? And immediately she goes, well, you got to go to the Naval Academy prep school first. And I was like, oh, what's that? They're like, well, that's kind of like the. That's for the guys that they. They're usually a bunch of athletes that they red shirt or prior enlisted.

And in your case, we're going to see if you can actually hack it academically at the academy. So you're going to. You go up there and you do 10 months, and it's an academic course. And I immediately got the sinking feeling. I'm like, oh. I'm like, I'm not smart enough to go there. Like, I'm going to fail. Like, I hate school. What I didn't know at the time was I'm partial. I'm kind of dyslexic, dysgraphic. I mean, I have a tough time reading. And I'm like, oh, no. And I just dealt with it through high school, but it was, you know, I was good listener. And she's like, yeah, get ready. Pack your bags. And I call Adam, and I'm like, dude, I got into the naps. And he immediately calls his dad, and his dad calls me. And about a couple days later, actually, we scheduled the call. And at this point, I was like, I'm not going. Like, I don't want to go to the academy and fail and then try to come back to teams. Like, the teams are going to eat me alive. I'm not. I can't do this. And so Admiral Smith calls me.

He goes, congratulations. Got into the Naval Academy. He's like, we're going to prep school, which is fine. He's like, just get up there. Knock it out. You'll be a plea in the class of 2003. He goes, Are you excited? And I go, admiral, I don't know if I want to go. And it was just a pause on the phone. I got. I really love being a seal. Worked really hard to get here. I met a platoon jumping out of airplanes. I got my own car. I got an apartment. Like, I got a life. And the idea of going back to, you know, shaving your head and pulling your socks up and somebody yelling at me again, and long pause on the phone. Admiral Smith said to me the greatest piece of advice I've ever been given in my life. He goes, pete, when you're forced with a hard decision, always choose the hardest path. It's always the right one every time. Call me tomorrow with your decision. And I hung up the phone. I was like, oh, no, this is gonna suck.

Great response.

Yeah. Called him the next day. I said, sir, I'm gonna do it. And a couple weeks later, check out and head up to Newport, Rhode island, for another round of boot camp. And that's where I met Jeremy. And I show up, and all the Prior enlisted guys are kind of looking at each other, you know, you're looking at each other chest and a couple Marines wandering around. Everybody's doing the butt sniffing thing. And this circus began immediately for me. Get your little issue. I go to my room and I'm like, he gave me a robe. I was like, oh, cool, man. I got a robe. I'm like, I'm on my way to be an officer. They gave me a robe. So I put on my robe and I'm like going, so I get my shower shoes. I'm like, this is awesome. I got shower shoes, I got a robe, I put my toothbrush in my mouth and I'm just cruising down the, cruising down the hallway. And I didn't know what midshipmen were. And I looked, I. There were some midshipmen there from the academy that come in and they do summer detail and they have their collar devices.

And when you come from the fleet, the midshipman collar devices, they don't mean anything to you. And they start kind of like, what are you doing? And I'm like, what? Just chill out, man. Just going to the bathroom, brush my teeth. They're like, you don't talk to me that way. And I'm like, whoa, everybody needs to take a wrap off here. I turn around and this gunnery sergeant hat, like, hits me in the bridge of my nose. And this gunnery sergeant, he just starts tearing at me, tearing into me like Marine Corps boot camp. And I was like, I remember I put my hand up and I just pushed his hat back. And I was like, everybody needs to calm down right now.

I'm just trying to brush my teeth here.

I'm just. That's exactly it. I'm like, I'm just here to brush my teeth right now. Like, get, get in this office. They dragged me in the office, the Marine captain, and they knew exactly who I was. And they were like, okay, here's the deal. They put the paper in front of me, like, sign this and you can go back to the fleet. And I was like, I just got here. They're like, we don't want you here. We don't want the trouble. We know you're going to be an issue. And I was like, okay, well, I didn't know we were starting this stuff. I was like, I'm like, I'm really. I'm like, I'm. Take a second. I didn't know that we were doing this, so can you give me a little read in as to what's happening? And then we're like, well, this is boot camp, and you're back into boot camp. And I was like, okay, well, that would have been like, good to know before this, this whole thing, like, unfolded.

I didn't know we were playing boot camp here.

Yeah, well, exactly it. I was like, I didn't know we were doing this game. But now that you told me, I'm like, now I'm here, so you don't need that. I'm not gonna quit. And I went back, you know, then I just like, pull my pocket, put in my pocket, and I'm just fine.

I won't brush my teeth.

I guess we don't. We don't brush our teeth, we don't wash our hair. You know, everyone starts to show up and all the priors go through this, like, adjustment period and it's all, it's athletes division, it's all the red shirt athletes from the football team and, and they had a track team. And so now, mind you, when I was in high school, I was 160 pounds pole vaulting, five' eleven. I went to Bud's as 160 pounds. I graduated about 180 pounds. And then I really started to lift at teammate and I got to be about 205. So I show up at NAPS at 205 and I'm there to walk onto a Division 1 track team and pole vault again. Pole vault is a math equation. It's how fast you can run, like, how far you can long jump. And essentially the lighter you are, the higher you can go. So I'm like, I gotta like, recalibrate my entire mindset now and I gotta start losing weight. And that's what I did. I started running like 15 miles a day and not eating, and I was like shedding pounds. I just became like the shell of myself.

Did you know that you were only. You were the third ever? Were you the third? So were you?

Yes, I was the third one. There were two before me. Jim Galladay, who's a 1995 grad, he was on Peter Airfield when everyone, all those seals got shot up and he got the Bronze star. And so he showed up as a plebe with a bronze star and a combat action ribbon. This is 19, 1998 at the time. And the stories of Jim, like, just, just saturated. Like, it was this legendary. He was a legend. Like, he was mystical. And there was. The second guy was Jim Foreman. And Jim was SDV1. Super cool dude, surfer, blonde guy. He played lacrosse at the academy. And I actually met him when I went up to Visit. And he was still. He was getting ready to graduate. And I was like, what, would you do it all over again? He's like, fuck, no. I'm like, that wasn't exactly.

That's encouraging.

That wasn't what I was looking for, man. And so. And I knew I was. You know, I'm number three, but I hadn't been in. There was no combat. You know, there was. And that was part of the reason why I went. I was like, well, I'll go to school. Like, what? You know, what can it hurt? Like, take advantage of everything that the Navy throws at you, was what I was always told, if you get the opportunity to go to school, go to a school. If you get the opportunity to better yourself, go. Go do it. Father Frank Moncay, he told me that who was a head of training at. At. At Seal Team 8 when I was going through this, whether or not I should go. And he's like, hey, heard you got in the Academy. And I'm like, I don't. I don't know if I'm going. He's like, nope, you're going. Anytime the Navy offers you an opportunity to better yourself, you go and don't it up. Just like, everyone's like, don't quit.

So, yeah, don't embarrass us.

Yes. This is what it really was. We don't really care about you. Yeah, we care that you don't embarrass us. And, you know, plea Beer. You know, that boot camp, that first year, it was academically unbelievably difficult because it was. They basically take your plebier and they academically. And they shove it into 10 months. So you get a head start for your plebier, right? So you're taking chemistry, you're taking calculus. You're taking, like, a. I want to say English class, but it was a pretty heavy English class. And chemistry is always an issue at the academy, and calculus is an issue. And. And I was scared shitless of all of this. You know, I mean, like macademics, I was. I always stayed away from academics in high school because I'm like. I had a tough time reading, and now I'm in this. This is all you're here to do. This is BUDS for academics. And, oh, by the way, you're wearing this, you know, target on your chest.

You wear the SEAL trident.

Oh, yes, the academy, yes.

What is that like?

So I used to take it off and put it in my pocket. I go in the bathroom, and I take it off.

Are you serious?

Why because it was like a different world. I would take it off and just blend in. I'm like, this is doable. And then the minute someone would see me, they'd be like, hey, you're at a uniform. And I'm like, huh? I go back and put my uniform. And, you know, at the academy, you'd be chopping down the hall, and they'd be like, seal. I'm like, oh, here we go. And, you know, some kid who got his lunch money stolen, who's a, you know, academic whiz. Whiz kid. He's like, you think you're a badass? You think you're a tough guy? Like, sir, no, sir. You play the game. And then they'd hold me up, and I'd be late for class, you know, and then they're like, then you're getting in charge. You're getting. You know, you're getting in trouble for being tardy. And then you're getting extra tours. And anytime I would go to do anything, everyone's measuring themselves against me. And so it was like being a celebrity at the Academy. Everybody. There's only 16 billets a year, and everybody wants to be a seal, and everybody talks about being a seal. And here I am wearing this Budweiser, and they're all like, you know, is this guy that guy?

And they all want to. They all want to find out. Meanwhile, I'm like, dude, I'm in chemistry class. And, like, this is not easy. Like, you can have all of this. This misery, but I need to focus on studying and, you know, say Naps was. Naps was amazing. I played rugby at Naps. I got my first taste of rugby. I've got my first taste of. I jumped again. I started losing weight, and. But I was focused. I was like, I really want. I really want a pole vault. Like, I really want. I want to see how high I can go. It was in the back of my head. I want to see if I can do this. Like, I just have to try this. And, you know, and then you go to plebe summer, which is another six weeks of boot camp. So at this point, you know, I've been through. But I've been through regular boot camp. And then I went through buds. Then I went through boot camp at Naps for four weeks or whatever it is. And then a year at Naps, where you're basically treated like, loosely treated like a plebe.

And then plebe summer, where you're back to being, like, literally shark, lower than shark in the ocean. You're like back to zero again and boot camping it all over and mentally you're just like. And now it's not drill instructors yelling at you now it's 19 year old upperclassmen, right? And they're getting in your face and you're just like meanwhile in your head, you know, you're, you're just like, what, what am I doing? Why this is like the worst thing. Like I, I went to a place where I suck at everything, right? Everybody's competing with me and now people are yelling at me and I want to beat everybody up. Like I literally am like, I want to beat everybody up every day and during plebe summer and that's where you start to find your, your.

Did you just have Jeremy beat him up?

So, so Jeremy ends up in my company from, we go from nap. So we get. And we end up in the same company. And so he's prior enlisted Marine. And boot camp comes around and we're playing the game plebe summer. We're playing the game and it's easy, it's not hard. You're just, you know, folding your socks and folding your uniform and same shit. You're memorizing stuff. And. But both Jeremy and I were just kind of over playing the game. And so a lot of the pr, they were like, oh, are you a napster? Oh, you're a prior. You kind of get like earmarked. Oh, you're going to be, you know, trouble. And we all have fun because we're, we just end up around with the upper class, you know, just like. And we're having fun on our own. And that's when we met Brett. And I've been hesitating to tell the story because it's, it, it's, it's hilarious. But it's kind of disgusting. But it's, but it's hilarious. And okay, so one morning and Brett ended up in our room and our roommate and a big part of our life. I mean he was like a huge part of my life.

They wake you up in the morning and you chop. So every time you go somewhere you have to go, go Navy. And make a right hand corner. So you run out of your room, you run to the center of the hallway and you go, go Navy. And then you turn right and then you say beat army. And you run down to the next corner and you go, go Navy. Beat army. And you have to square all your corners everywhere you go. And it's, you know, you got your socks pulled up, you're wearing your like Grandpa New Balance shoes and your head shaved. And you're just like, dude, I'm back. So I might roll out of bed. And I'm like, last to formation. I go, maybe, you know, I mean, I get in and they start screaming and yelling at me, Scobell, like, what do you think? You think because you're a SEAL you can do whatever you want? Like, sir, no, sir. And you brace up and put your chin back. And they just, you know, it was great for the other people in my class because they were like, he's going to take all the anyway.

And at that point it was like, I'm getting all this anyway, so you're not helping me. So I. I come in the room, I come into the hallway, and this upper class, this female upper class who is rather pretty, she. I come in, she starts yelling at me and she's like, like, you know, what are you. You're late. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden I hear this, go, Navy. I'm like, yeah, dude, someone's later than me. Like, he's gonna get the. And he came. Brett came around the corner. And now in the mornings, you wear. You wear. You have these mesh shorts that are like down to your knees, and you're. You have your shirt tucked in, a blue rim shirt and your socks pulled up. And Brett turned the corner, and I kind of looked at the corner of my eyes because everyone, all eyes. I'm like, looking at this. Who's late? Because he's taking the shit off of me. This is going to be great. Brett comes around the corner and the first thing I see is his member, and it is massive. And he has morning wood. And he comes around the corner and I'm like, oh, he's high kneeing.

He's like, come, Navy. And the thing is bouncing. He turns in and he stands across from me like you are. And he whips around and he braces up and he looks at me and he has this infectious smile. And I look down and I'm like, oh, my God, dude. And the. The pretty detailer, she looks at me, she's like, why are you smiling, Mr. Scobell? Why are you smiling? What's so funny? And I'm just like, you'll find out in a minute. She goes, you think I'm cute? Is that why you're smiling? And in the back of my head, I was kind of like, well, yeah. And she turns around and she goes, harmon, oh, my God, get in the room. And very calmly, he has this gigantic smile on his Face. He goes, go, Navy goes into the room. And I'm like, that guy is a legend. And halfway through that day, I mean, I was laughing all day about this story. And halfway through that day, they pull me aside. They're like, Mister, we're going to put you and Mr. Harmon together. You know, he needs to mature a little bit more and he needs to grow up.

And we think that with your experience as prior enlisted seal, you can help him raise his standards. And I was just like, who's helping who here? Like this guy. So they put me with Brett and the plebe summer ends and you know, we, we. It was always a joke. You know, his nickname was Tripod. He was just like, he was on the wrestling team and we would go to. He was on the wrestling team and we would go to the matches and sit next to the thing because he would tuck that thing into a singlet. Like, he'd go out there and the guys would shake hands, you know, before they matched. And they were like, what the. It's unfair advantage everywhere in life. And he was unapologetic about it. And so plebe here, I get set up with Brett and Jeremy's in the room next to me. And these guys got to see what it was like for me during that year. I couldn't study. People come to my room, you didn't know who was coming in. Some guy wants to fuck with you, some guy who wants to ask you about buds, you know, and you're just like, hey, I'm, I'm not.

I've got. You don't realize like most people understand, like at the academy, the doesn't matter what you major in, you're taking, you're going to take three semesters of calculus, two of chemistry, three of calculus based physics. You're going to take electrical engineering, thermodynamics, weapon systems engineering 1 and 2, which is applied physics. You're going to take naval architecture. And then, oh, by the way, what's your major? And then you get your majors on top of that and then you have leadership courses. And so this is like, this is a full load. You're taking, you know, 20 credits a semester on top of professional knowledge as a ple. And then every day you have to memorize the menus for all three meals. You have to know how many days for to the next Army Navy event. You have to know just this massive amount of information. And so you're just constantly studying and there's just all this crap you have to do. And it. That's at max capacity already. And then you add the layer of being a team guy. And everywhere you go, you wear this big gold. And you know, people were like, oh, it must have been fun.

Like, no, it wasn't, because it was like a. It was like a bullseye on your chest. Everyone was. Everyone wanted to see what. You couldn't go anywhere without people staring at you. Like, I'd walk. You'd walk into Bancroft hall and people be in the rotunda and like, they would stop the tour and be like, this is our seal. Like, you know, like that. Like you couldn't get away with anything. And everywhere you went, people were, you know, constantly. And I was always late for class because people would stop me. I was doing tours. And they're always commenting like, you. You got a bad attitude.

What do you mean, do it? Doing tours. What is that?

So you get an up. Demerits or you do something stupid, they assign you a tour. So if you get up early, like 4 in the morning, and you take your rifle and you go down to the. Wherever, whatever, there's a courtyard. That's a big square courtyard, depending on the hall you're in or what wing of Bancroft you're in. And you walk around in circles as punishment, and they'll assign you 10 tours. That's 10 mornings. You got to get up at 4am and just go walk around with your rifle and, you know, demerits. And it's just like everything you do is watched and graded. Every physical, PT test, every academic. It. It's plebe year is. It's two full plates of food and then throw. On top of it being this team guy, this. This, you know, and I'm carrying around all of the. So every team guy that goes there, the legends begin. You know, what Jim did and then what, you know, Jim Golladay did, you know, and then Fortman did. And then. Then what Fortman did and then what I did. You know, what I'm building. So they. There were these crazy stories. And since then, what's funny is I'll run into a midshipman now.

And I'd be like, hey, was it there ever a seal that went there? And they'd be like, oh, yeah, it's Plebeir. He killed his detailer. They just get blown out of proportion. You know, it's just like this. But what happened is, you know, Jeremy and Brett, they saw what was going on. And. And Johnny, our other roommate, they saw what was going on. And the rugby players and those guys would run point for Me and the prior enlisted Marines and you know, they, I would be getting, I'd be getting raided on my way to meal by some other upperclassman and Ryan Curry and Mark Pavandra, these two prior enlisted Marines would just slide in between them, me and the upperclassmen and they'd be like leave. And I just bolt out of there and like, who are you guys? And like. And they would take the heat and they'd run point for me and because they saw, they're like, hey man, this isn't, this is already hard enough, it's not fair, but whatever, like I signed up for it, you know, and meanwhile I'm trying to walk on a Division 1 track team that in itself and got back into jumping, I lost, I went down to 170 pounds.

I went from 205, 208 or whatever back down to 170 pounds. So now everyone's like, they're looking at me and my uniform's like hanging off me and I got like, like skinny little SEAL trying like dangling, getting yelled at all the time, like just getting my ass handed to me on a daily basis. But I started jumping. Well, first semester, you know, I did okay academically. And then beginning of second semester was February and we had a four star lecture. So every Wednesday night you have someone will come in and give a lecture and that night it was Ross Perot. And Ross Perot is a Naval Academy grad and he came to give a speech and so Wednesday nights you get in your full dress blue uniform. He said you go to school, you go to class all day, you go to sports, go to track practice all day you come back, get dressed, then go to meal, then go to a couple hour forestall lecture and then study for the next day. And I go to the forestall lecture, hear Ross Perot speak, head back to the hall, stop by my friend's room and my friend's mother had emailed her and this title of the email was Go find Pete.

His dad just died. And I walked in and I looked over her shoulder and I saw that she just looked at me and I, I walked out and you're supposed to chop and run. And I just walked, I just walked. Upperclassmen are yelling at me and I'm just like, I just had this, I like that people don't. Unless you've lost a parent, you don't know. It's like the day after the day the feeling that the world is never the same without that person in it Again, good bat or ugly Like, I walked back to my room that night, and the upper class were, like, yelling at me in the hall because I wasn't chopping. I was just like, you, literally. And they go, tell the company officer, you know, about my bad behavior. And I walk in, and Brett was there, and, man, I just collapsed into his arms. And he's like, what? My dad's dead. And upper class, come to the door. Scobell, get out here. And Brett just slammed the door. He's like, leave. Locked it. And Brett and I just sat on the cat, sat on my bed, and I, I just.

It was like the world came undone for me. And it turns out that he had died right after I'd gone to track practice. I told you before, I got an A on a calculus test, and I. I went on my wave between or between class and track practice. I stopped at the pay phone and called my dad. And that was the. The moment I said, hey, I got an A on a calculus test. And he was like. He starts laughing. That was the class he had dropped in college. And I wanted. It was like me saying, like, I, I, I. I got this. And he just, you know, I love you. This is the first time, only time I didn't know what to do with it at the moment. I hung up the phone. I was like, wow, he. That happened. And I didn't know it, but he had just. He literally hung up the phone. He had a couch phone was next to the couch, used to read on the couch, everything. He Adjust books like it was nobody's business. Laid down, take a nap, and his heart gave out. He died on the couch.

His girlfriend came in and found him. They called the academy, and they knew before, like, while I was at track, that this had happened. But your attendance at Meehl and at Forrestal lectures counts for a point system for your company at the academy. And we were up for color company, and that's a great fit rep for your company officer. And they waited. The. The word had gone out, and they waited till I had gone to all of that. And the. The chaplain. I had already found out. I found out via email. And I was sitting in my room, and the chaplain shows him in the room, and he's like, you want to come to the company officer's office? And I walk in, and like, your father. Dad passed away. I'm like, yeah, I found out on email. They're like, well, we're gonna. We're gonna. We're gonna send you home. And immediately the company officer is like, you gotta watch your Attitude. And I was like, next day, got up. That was a Wednesday. Thursday morning, I got up. I flew home. My friend's parents picked me up, took me to the airport. I flew home, got there immediately.

Went to the funeral home. He wanted to be cremated. Picked an urn, came home. My dad's girlfriend was like, here's the. The will. I get everything. You can have whatever pictures you want. And I was like, whatever. I went to a lawyer that afternoon. I pointed to the executive state, and I. I was like, listen, I couldn't get everything done. There was. I actually had to sign some more paperwork. I forget what it was. I. But I had to be there. I had to be there. There was. Monday was a day off, and I had to be there on Tuesday. I'm like, I have to be here on Tuesday to sign paperwork. So I called the company officer and I said, hey, sir, I need an extra day. I got. I gotta clean this mess up. It's just me. There's no one else. And he's like, you know, Pete, you're not focusing on being a midshipman right now. I was like, what? Like, come on. Like, enough with the games. Like, this is. This is. I gotta deal with this. So I called the seals in the yard, and the SEAL chiefs in the yard were like, what the fuck?

And I get a call back from the company officer, and he's like, all right, you're extended until Tuesday. So you have to be here Wednesday morning. And I'm six hours away. Sign everything, hop in the car, drive six hours back to the academy. And I wasn't supposed to have a car, but it was my dad's car. And so I pull in, park it at. Jim Galladay was a seal. He was actually living in Annapolis at the time. And he had been. He'd come, you know, if I needed stuff. He was. He would help me out. And I'm like, hey, I got this car. I parked at his house and got back to the academy. And first thing, went into the company officer's office. And he's just like, why don't you just go back to the teams? Just go back. And I was like, excuse me? Like, he's like, your behavior. You're not focusing on being a midshipman. Just go. And I was. I'm like. And I remember looking at him in my mind, like, he. He. In that moment, he. I saw my dad's face, and I was just like, this guy. Like, you know what?

I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it. I was like, no, not. I'm not leaving. And put me on the upper class because of my bad attitude, put me on all calls, which is me. I had to be outside their door at five in the morning because I didn't memorized my rates. The one upper class stopped me in the yard. He goes, what's the menu for morning meal? And I was like, dude, I just literally walked in the door, I just buried my dad. He's like, doesn't excuse you from your duty, dude. You guys. And I looked around, I'm like, what kind of leadership laboratory is this? Like this, this is just unbelievable. So I went back just like nothing happened. I was like, put that away. Damn, dad's gone. You know, everything's gone. A couple weeks later, we were track meet and the freshman record was 16:3. And it was. The weather was perfect. It was like, sun was out. It was March. My dad died in February. It was the end of March and home meet. And I don't remember who we were jumping against. What's interesting about pole vault, that it's all about you competing against yourself.

And that day I just had an amazing day. I broke that freshman record. I jumped 16, 3. And I swear to God, on that jump, I felt like something pulled my hips up. I swear to God. And for me, it was just like I had that moment and I'm like, okay, like, I continue to run track, you know, plebe year ended at the end of that year. My woman, my dad was dating at the time, she sold everything, had an executive, had a sale, the house was gone, but my friend's parents had welcomed me into their family and, you know, life goes on. And I just kind of put that part of it. That's just what it is, your parents die, you know. But yeah, my junior year or my sophomore year, I ran track again, was jumping well, jumped mid 16. And in the beginning of junior year nine, 11 happened and Johnny, Jeremy, Brett and I, I was in. I walked out of one class into the heart room. Upstairs, I got a cup of coffee and they had those gigantic TVs. Remember the big screen TVs? They're like four feet deep. It was not now where you have the finish.

And I saw everyone was crowded around it. Like, what happened? Like a Cessna crashed into the World Trade Center. And I was like, like, dude, that. You ever been to New York City? Mike, that's not a Cessna. And I said, that's a terrorist attack. I just knew it. I was actually in a political science class. I walked out of political science class and in between, I was going to a philosophy class called Friendship and Death. Just then, the second plane hit the tower. The second tower, and I. We all scurried off to class. I went into Friendship and Death. And the teacher's like, all right, let's talk about last night's. And I'm like, no, turn the TV on. Like, this is happening right now. Turn the TV on. And everyone was just, holy. Like, we watched the towers fall. And then the announcement came. Everyone go back to Bancroft Hall. And so all the. All 4,000 midshipmen are back in Bancroft Hall. Which I was like, then you're hearing, like, the planes crashing the world or into the Pentagon. And I'm like, well, I'm not sure the smartest thing in the world is to put all 4,000 midshipmen in one building right now.

You know, and we get back there, and a lot of the guys from my class who were. Would always come in. Brett. Brett was a legend. He. He would cut everybody's hair. And so, you know, guys from every team and would, you know, come in and he'd have this haircutting. We'd all talk and BS Travis Mannion, Brad, Stan, who's a UFC fighter. Brian came over that night, and he's like, what do you think, dude? I'm like, we're going to war. Like, this is. This is war. And we just had this moment of, like, holy. We were juniors. And all my buddies from Naps, Ryan Pabandra, we're all kind of, like, looking at each other like, this is. The game just changed. Like, the game. And we're settling in on that. And I was like, I need to be part of a team. And I quit the track team, and I walked on the rugby team.

Like.

I need to be around. I need to get ready for war. And that was like. That was my. My way of shifting gears. Like, enough of this. My dad's gone. I broke the record. Now it's time to get ready for war. And so I walked on a rugby team. And my last years, I played rugby. Started A side played NCAAs a couple times. And yeah, it was. I. That's one of my most vivid memories was like, it's on. And. But, you know, rugby team is right. My. My. You have to take double electrical engineering. And electrical engineering is, like the class that everyone. Everyone struggles through. And there was a cheating scandal back in the 80s about the electrical engineering test. And. And I had these two amazing coaches on the rugby team. Major Renforth and Major Shay Sparky Renforth, who's he's a three star. And Major Shay, who's a recon marine. And my first double E test, I got like a 5%, not like a 15%. You got five. And Major Shay taught double E. And I go to rugby practice and Major Shay is like, hey, dude, I saw your test. Like, what's going on?

I'm like, he's like, who's your teacher? Told my teacher was, he's like, yeah, sleep through his class. You got a free period afterwards, come to my room, come to my office, I'll teach you double E. And man, Major Shea, he just was a godsend. I walked in there and he would.

The.

The teacher that I had would spend two hours or an hour talking about electrical engineering. I'd walk in there and Major Shay be like, teach me what I need to be to learn in five minutes. And I was like. And I ended up getting great grades in double E after that. Like, right before the final, remember Jeremy and Brett and Johnny came out and I'm like, given extra instruction to other mids. And they were like, is he teaching? And. But you had. I'd applied to come back to the teams. So it wasn't a. It wasn't a. It wasn't a foregone conclusion. And at that time I started, you know, post post, my dad dying, I started picking up my guitar again. Bought myself a nice little Martin guitar, playing the room. And it was my way of like, just calming, calming it, making going away. And I had kind of a communion with my mom was like, I like that part of my life. I want to go back to harnessing that to get the noise of the academy out. And I started playing in the bars. I go out and sneak out and put civilian clothes on, get up there and sing in the bars and play.

And it'd be. It was so. It was so asinine that when, you know, other officers on the yard would see me, they're like, he's gotta have permission. I'd be like, you know, throw my guitar in the back of my car, sneak back on the yard. And so, you know, the years went by and I had a selection again. One of the summers I went, they actually, the SEAL rep at the time said, you got to go to Mini Buds. And I'm like, for what? Thank you. Well, you gotta. You. You know, just because you went through buzz before doesn't mean you're gonna. You're gonna go back to the community. And everyone was like, wait, you know, Portman and Galladay went back. He's Already got his Budweiser. Why would you. And at the time, that officer was a. He was a team guy and he was on the rugby coach as well. And I was butting heads with him. I was just like, come on. He's like, hey, listen, there's 16 billets. And he called me in his office. He's like, there's 16 billets. These guys have worked really hard. Just go out and go to swo.

Put SWO as your second choice, go out to a ship, get your pin, then you go back to teams and we get an extra billet. And I was like, no, that's been. I went to Naps. I'm here for four years. I'm like, the war is on. Like, this is, this is asinine to me. And I go to rugby practice one day and Major Shay is like, pete, come here. Major Shane, Major Renforth. And one of the summers I did a marine training and I won a leadership award when I was there. And you have to go to like leatherneck. And I hadn't gone to the formal leatherneck, I'd just gone to like the marine famous. And Major Shea goes, hey, we found out that they're. They're trying to boot you. And I'm like, yeah, like, you want to be a Marine? And I'm like, but I didn't go through any of the stuff. And they're like, doesn't matter, we'll take you. And I looked at Major Renforth, Major Shea, and I was just like, they're like, put it as your number two choice. And that's like the kiss of death. The academy, you put your number one choice, suspect war.

You put your number two choice, it has to be swept because then you can lat transfer. That shows you're committed to the community. And so when I had to fill out my preferences, I put down nsw, then I put down Marine Ground, then I put down Marine Air, and I put down every other surface selection except for swo. And I put that at the bottom as, as my, like, kind of you. And I went into my. Right before I went into my interview, I had to go into an interview for nsw. It's all the NSW officers. Major Shea, Major Renforth knew when my interview was. And they, they, I was standing outside the door and they walked up to us, they're like, hey, we want you. So if they don't want you, we'll take you. And I was like, these are two of the best leaders I've ever come across in my life. I mean, they were just Absolute champions. And I'm like, I want to be like those guys. Like, that's. That's leadership. And I looked around the yard and the Marines, the guys I looked up to the most, and I was like, you know what?

Whatever. I went into my interview and I was not very good in Spanish. And there's a slide behind you with your grades. And the captain who. He goes, and they're all looking at me. I got a Budweiser and a Jump Wings, and they're just like looking at each other like, wait a minute, why is he in here? And the officer at the time briefs your record, and he starts briefing my record, and not very kindly about my attitude, my behavior. And the admiral or the captain who ended up being an admiral after that, he goes, well, I'm not going to ask you any questions in Spanish, given your grades. He goes, but you put Marine ground as your number two choice. You want to explain that? And I said, Sir, I'm 26 years old. I want to lead men in combat, and if I'm not ready to lead men in combat by now, I'll never be ready by spending 18 months out on a ship. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's fine. You're coming back to teams. It's a done deal. But it was stressful. It's like you get to your senior year and the guys that you think got your back, they, you know, man.

That'S crazy to me. Was that a ego problem that. Are they just with you? Why would they do that? Where it's fresh after 9 11.

Fresh after 911 you're a SEAL. Yeah.

Fresh officer.

Yeah. And they.

And they want to. They want to send you to a boat.

Yeah. A lot of times when you get an officer program, a lot of this, they'll compete for officer programs, enlisted SEALs, and they'll take a SWO billet just to get a commission, then lat transfer back in if there aren't enough billets. So it's not an uncommon thing. Some guys come in ocs, they want to be seals, but they don't. There's not an NSW billet. So they'll go. They'll go get their SWO pen and then lat transfer in. It's the easiest way to get in the community. So we have a lot of SWO officers that turn into SEAL officers. And I think at the time, you know, the, the thinking of that particular guy was, I can get another billet, I can get another SEAL in, and, you know, he'll just get a swoop in and then he'll come back to the community anyway, so it's a win for the community.

And yeah, if the guy even makes it. Yeah, it's like an 85 dropout rate at Buds.

I know. Well, the Naval Academy has like a 95 graduation rate.

Well, I've seen a lot of Naval Academy grads go through that. Never should have made it. I, I've seen them quit.

Yep.

And then the instructors ask them, are you sure you want to quit? Miraculously, they're better the next day.

Yeah.

Which is a shame.

It is it. All that said and all that headache, it was still the most amazing experience of my life. The education I got there, they taught me how to think, not what to think. You know, like weapon systems engineering is applied physics. And it was, you know, understanding the electromagnetic spectrum and wave propagation. And you know, why HF, why use HF comms? Why use VHF? Why use, you know, how night vision interacts with NVGs and like, it was like applied physics for battlefield. My political science was understanding, you know, how governments interact with people. And you know, I wanted to know what the problem was. I always saw being a SEAL officer, like, you have the why, the what and how. And you know, you got to explain to the guys why we're doing what we're doing. We're a tactical unit that makes strategic impact. And you know, how can you look at the, can you look at the, the, the, the scope of what's happening on the battlefield and figure out how to apply this force and have the most bang for the buck? Like. And, you know, I was a political science major.

You get a bachelor of science and political science, but it's like, I don't know what my, I don't even know what the politics were of any of my professors. You know, like, that's unbelievable these days, right? It was like, this is what's going on and let's talk about it. Let's. The Middle Eastern politics. Let's, you know, I did a deep dive and did like 85 page paper on the Muslim Brotherhood. And like, it was just unbelievable. Like that portion of it, the how to think and how to prepare. I felt, I felt extremely well prepared when I left there as a thinker. That makes any sense? Yeah, look at like that was worth its weight in gold. Like that place, they always say it's a great place to be from, not a great place to be. I will double down on that one. But, but the education that I walked away with was, you know, we used to joke around like that's a 500, 000 education shoved up your ass one nickel at a time. It's like it is. But I, it was worth it. It was all worth it. You know, graduation day, I, everyone else could you get 30 days of basket leave.

And I hopped in the car and I drove straight out to Coronado and I joined a SQT class, went through a brush up and then went over to SEAL Team 1, found Commander Wilson, said, hey, you guys are deploying first. I want to deploy. And he, Commander Wilson sat me down and he goes, all right, here's the deal, man. Your education's on the battlefield. You run a gunfire. Any chance you get to deploy, you deploy that. So you don't take, you don't take your disassociated tour and go get a master's degree. You go back and this is like, we don't know how long this war is going to end. And to be an effective officer you need to be downrange. And so that was my, I went back to the team. I was just like, okay, let's go. Like, I, I want to do this.

How did it feel getting back to the teams as an officer?

It was weird because you have to, as an officer you have to go from the. I was enlisted on the east coast and then I had to go to the west coast because they don't want you being enlisted in the same, on the same coast. That, But I've been gone for so long that it was like, you know, I knew a bunch of guys and it was always, it was great because you had a ring so you were part of the circle. But I had a good conduct medal and I was a prior enlisted team guy and so I didn't get sloughed off by the enlisted guys, you know what I mean? It was like I was able to have one foot in each and, and getting back to the teams was like, I was like, okay, this is what I, this is what I did all that bullshit for. And there's a war. Like I have purpose. Like I want to go down range. It was like coming home. Coronado was honed me one of the, my senior year. So you have different sponsors at the academy and their families that take you in during the, during the time and you go there on the weekends, you can wash clothes, hang out with their families, you become like a part of their family and oftentimes you have multiple families because you go home with your, your roommate's family and become friends with them and then they come to your family and so There are all these families in Annapolis that take care of the mids.

And it's just. It's a really cool aspect of it that. That often gets overlooked when people talk about the academy. And I had two real groups, and one were the McWaters, and she was a Navy captain. She lived on Captain's Row. And my plea beer. When I. I met her, I go over to their house, and we knock on the door, and her husband answers the door. Bernie. And he sees my trident, and he's like, what the hell are you doing here? And I go, I don't know. And he goes, where are you from? I said, I'm from Erie, Pennsylvania. And he goes, I was an intel officer in Vietnam with the Navy SEAL from Erie, Pennsylvania. It was Dave Strong. And I was like, I know Dave Strong very well. And he's like, come on in. And they became. It was one of those. One of those moments where you're like, oh, I'm in the right place. They were this amazing family that took care of me. And then at Jeremy, we had another. These two gentlemen, Alex and Joe, who owned the Annapolis Inn. And they've sponsored hundreds of mids. And Alex and Joe were our other sponsor family.

And, you know, we go over there, and Alex was a. He was a Spanish teacher, thank God. He tutored me through Spanish so I could get through the academy. But my senior year, the McWhotters came to me and said, we're going with the Catholic Midshipmen Club to Rome and then Magicorje on spring break. We'd like you to come with us. And I was like, hell, no. Spring break, my senior year. We're about to go back to war. I'm like, I'm going to Cancun. Like, there's no way. And, you know, Bernie's like, our son Brandon really looks up to you, and we want him to go, and we'd really like for you to come with us. And I was like, okay, I'll do it. And so I went. And I was. You know, I had my grandmother as a Catholic, and my dad always just did not like the whole Catholic Church. And I'm like, but these people were so important to me, and they were so good to me. And when they asked me, I'm like, okay. And Bernie and I, you know, he was an intel officer with, you know, with the teams, and he's just the nicest There was just the nicest people ever.

So I went and we went to every basilica in Rome, and there were some admirals, there were some Old. There were some young midshipmen, some old retired admirals, and was this massive group. And I, I was like, kind of security, I guess, you know, like this gaggle. And so I'm like, all right, I'll go this, but I'll just like, you know, I just kind of look over everybody. I don't buy any of this stuff. And the, The. The. The chaplain became my drinking buddy. And we go to. We. He was every. They were doing communion like four times a day. And I was just like, oh, my God, this is like, this is crazy. And every day we get down, we go to dinner, and then I would sit down and I would just start to talk with the chaplain, you know, because in my mind I'm like, maybe I should find this thing. I need to find this. Like, maybe this guy can. He's going to open up my heart and tell me something that I don't see. And if I'm going to combat, like, I should have this. And every day we would just pick it apart.

And I'd be like, I don't buy this. Like, I'm reading his words and his word says, the kingdom of God is inside you. Like, why do I need this building? Why do I need you? Like, what's this voice in my head? And he'd laugh and he was a great dude. I wish I. Father John can remember his last name. We went every basilica, went to the catacombs where the Christians prayed when they were being persecuted. And they were buried, like walking. I mean, it's tunnels under Rome and their bodies are stacked and the skeletons. We had mass and there's a small cathedral under St. Peter's Cathedral that's like a private mass. We had a private mass down there. And then we all got on a plane and flew to Magigorje, where the Virgin Mary appears to. They appeared to these children, these visions. And it's in Bosnia. This is like 2003, and Bosnia is still kind of. I'm like, you think, guys, this is smart. We're taking a bunch of military people into Bosnia to go on this adventure. And we go to this town and Magicorje is just this really interesting place. And the story is that these children were playing and the Virgin Mary appeared to them and they flew up the mountain.

And over a 40 year period, she would appear to them and give them, you know, talk to them about what's going to happen. And then they would repeat what's going on. And I was just like, you with the priest. I'm like, you really believe this. He's like, I'm not even supposed to be here because it's not sanctioned by the Catholic Church. And there are all these things you do in magic where you go up and pray on Cross Mountain and in Virgin Mary, if you're there, and when the sun comes up, you're going to get blessed, you know? And first day, we're having breakfast, one of the midshipmen comes down, and they've gone up and been there for sunrise. They come down, and she goes, I saw the Virgin Mary. And the priest and I, at the same time were like. And I was like, you don't believe it either? He's like, I don't. He just. He couldn't wrap his head around. I couldn't wrap my head around it. I went up there. I was there in the morning. There was another. Actually, another guy who became a team guy. Batista. Jimmy Batista went with me, and we went up for.

We went up and slept on Cross Mountain. And, you know, we're there in the sunrise, and we did everything we were supposed to do, and I'm just like, listen, I don't buy any of this. And so, second last day we were there, we went to see one of the vision, one of the children who's now an adult. They're going to speak through a translator and tell us what her latest vision was. And so I go, bernie's next to me, and the priest is next to me, and there's probably 150 people. And this woman gets up on a deck, and she's talking about the vision, and I'm just kind of like, the translators given the translation, and I'm just kind of like, all right, let's get this over with. This woman looks at me, and she locks eyes with me, and I feel this like someone's grabbing me on my shoulders and pulling me down, and I can't move, and I'm just like. And I start to sway a little bit, and I'm like, what the. And. And the priest, like, looks over at me, and I'm just kind of like. And this wasn't like a.

This wasn't like two seconds. This is like, now we're into, like, 10 seconds. And I'm like, I can't move. And finally she just smiles and she looks away from me, and I look over at the priest, and he goes, what was that? And I was like, I don't know. And I turned around and walked away, and he came and found me, and he's like, what happened? And I was like, I Don't talk about it. He's like, something happened. And I was like, I don't want to talk about it. Like, I don't want to talk about it. And we left there, and I'll never forget that it wasn't instantly converted. I wasn't like, oh, my God, I found it. You know, I was like, I don't know what that was, but that happened. And I was afraid to tell Bernie and Marty because they're like, see, you're meant to be a Catholic. And I came back, and I signed up for confirmation classes, and I'm like, you know what? I'll try this out. And so I went to my first Sunday confirmation class because the priest was one of the chaplains. And I went in, and he does the Mass.

And then the end of the Mass, if you're in confirmation class before Communion, they go, okay, you guys, leave like, you're not. You're not good enough to be here. And when we did that, I turned around and I had. I just looked, and it was like this feeling came over me of like, why am I pledging? Why am I. The word says, he's within me. The God. The kingdom of God is with me, within me. Why do I have. Why do I need to do this? And I walked out. And after Mass, the father was. Father John was there, and I was like, I'm not doing it. He's like, why? And I'm like, this just doesn't feel right to me. And that was it. I left. It walked away, you know, graduated. And I was like, I tried. I gave it a shot, man. I did your trip. You know, I. I'm. I'm trying. I'm trying to play this game, but I couldn't wrap my head around the way it was structured within the Catholic Church. Just didn't make any sense. It's like. Well, what he said, like, isn't. What he didn't. He said this.

This church thing doesn't. He said. He was flipping over tables. He was saying these guys were. This is the problem, you know, this organized religion. And he's saying that the kingdom of God is within me. Like, I don't understand why I need you. So I gave it up, went back to teams.

What do you think that was?

I don't know.

I don't know what comes to your mind.

Guardian angel. My mom. Okay. Time. I don't know. It was. It was real. It happened, and it freaked me out, but I couldn't. When you're not there mentally, my ego is in the way. I was like, I'm going to be. I'm Sierra Lane Commando. Like, I'm gonna do this. I'm going to war. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just playing these games for you. Like, that's where I was mentally. I think you weren't open. I wasn't. I was like, I'm trying. I'm playing your games, but I'm just not there yet. And I don't. But it happened. That's real. 100%. And it freaked me out.

Does it still freak you out?

Not anymore. I think it was the. I think it was my mom. I think it was my guardian angels. May just make our job a little easier. Just. Can you just make. Like you are a complete shit show. Can you just, like, let's try this. Like, we can guide you a little bit. We'll have more pull other than otherwise. We got to work overtime with you. You got too much going on. You know, I went back to teams and, you know, first deployment was a. Was a liaison officer on the. The Expeditionary Strike group to General Medina. Ended up coming into southern Iraq, and we were the Northern Arabian Golf Task Unit. And there was. It was. And I flew around to work with the Brits. There's nothing, you know, little stuff here and there, patrols, you know, overflights. That was when they. The suicide bomber tried to take out the gas and oil platforms. They took the boat out there. And so we were looking for the cell, but the Brits owned the southern Iraq, and that was the Brit ao and they wanted nothing to do with kinetic stuff. And so we were trying our best to affect the battlefield, but the Brits owned the battlefield, and they did not want anything happening on their watch.

And, you know, we were, you know, a little. Little stuff. Get shot at on patrol, but not like at a war. You know what I mean? It was like, is this. Is this what this is? But during that deployment, I was at a Danish base. I logged on to my email hotmail, trying to figure out, you know, the keyboard looks a little different. You're trying to figure out, like, where. Where are the. Where are the letters that I need? And I log on and there's an email from Brian Bourgeois, who was in our company. And it said, I'm sorry about Brett. I was like, what? Then scroll down. And it was a forward of a newspaper article. And Brad, my roommate, Tripod, he'd gone in the Marine Corps and finished TBI or tbs, the basic school. He went to basic school, then infantry school, and he was down in Camp Lejeune and he was rifle platoon commander, getting ready to deploy to Iraq. He and a bunch of his friends, including his best friend from high school and a fellow wrestler, Kevin McCann, they all met up and went to a North Carolina state football game for opening.

Opening day. And they were tailgating, and a car came ripping through the parking lot. And everybody was throwing stuff at the car because they were speeding. And the car came to a screeching halt right in front of the Marines tailgate. These kids get out, and altercation happens. And with Brett, they almost hit a little girl. And all the Marines are like, hey, man, you gotta calm down. Like, you guys are driving, like. And they. They were obviously under the influence of something. And altercation breaks out, and Brett just wipes the floor with the kid and throws him back in the car. He's like, get out of here. And they drive away. Marines go back to tailgating. Thirty minutes later, that kid walks up with a gun in his hand and shoots Brett the throat, kills him. Kevin McCann, his best friend, Bob, Marine, everyone else hits the deck. Kevin McCann jumps on the shooter, starts wrestling the gun away. Shooter puts the gun to Kevin's head, executes him. These kids get up and. And leave. Gone, not war. He spent every single day of my time at the academy. He was two feet from me.

He held me when my dad died. Quite literally the most beautiful soul I'd ever known. The smile is like. Would light up. It lit up heaven. And I just sat in this base and I was like, I read that. I'm like, I don't even know. The last picture I have with him is on graduation day, standing behind him. And Mr. Ferrier, my stepdad, he just walked on the field with the camera. He snapped this picture of the two of us together. And Brett's beautiful smile, wearing our whites, was pouring down rain. He never. He was born leader. He was an amazing wrestler. He wasn't the best wrestler. He just worked the hardest. There's an award at the Naval Academy called the Brett Harmon Award. We give out every year. It's the kid. It's like the fire in the gut, you know? He was a part of every good memory I had at that place all day, every day. We struggled through every class together. We laughed, played music, made up songs, wrestled drunk on the floor. Jeremy and Jeremy and Johnny and I, to this day, I still think it's. You lost other guys in combat.

You know, you lose friends in combat. That's. We signed up for that. That's okay. That was like, that side that. That hit Me like I can't even imagine I still was like a train just bulldoze me. And the Marine I work for at the time, Gentil was his, she was a Naval academy grad, Gentile was his secretary. And I emailed that to Jen and she went and told the general and he goes, send him home. Sent him home to be with her mother. The other marines aren't going to get to go home. So I got this note on a base and was like, go home, find a way. So I grabbed field cammies, my gun, hopped on a helicopter, flew to Basra, like gave my to another SEAL that was there, caught a transport plane to Kuwait, then angled some orders, I was covered and I literally had a backpack with a flip phone and a credit card. Landed and took a finagled my way on a flight with a group of army reservist guys going back for their mid year tour break. Landed in Dallas. And one of the sponsor dads from the Naval Academy, Mr. Bentley, he'd sponsored a bunch of parent listed marines.

He was a legend. He was Trident Industries in Dallas. I mean hips that you can do a two hour podcast on the good that man did. Had his guys pick me up and drove me straight, drove me straight to Neiman Marcus and he's like, you need clothes. I was wearing field camis. He dressed me, he bought a gift for Brett's mother and he's like, here's a plane ticket to Chicago. Go be with his mother and make sure she gets that. And that's from, all of, that's from your room. I got on a plane and went there and we all just congregated in Chicago and Brett was a huge Cubs fan and we buried him. My buddies from the academy went, they found, they found whites for me, they put together a uniform for me, met me and I mean I just sat with his mother and. And then ass over tea kettle. Planes, trains and automobiles, finding my way back to Baghdad. Damn. Trying to convince people at Dover like I just need a flight back to Iraq. And they're like, who are you? I'm like, but it was, that was that. You know, people talk about their first rotation like that was my first rotation.

It was the worst loss that I'd ever experienced and it wasn't even on the battlefield. Damn. Pete. Yeah, he was, he was the best of us.

I'm sorry, man.

Yeah, well, thank you. Came back from that rotation in Brett and immediately started another workup at team one. And I was like, yeah. Anyways, that was a hard, it was hard to shift gears from that. That one just, that was just. Doesn't. It doesn't sit well with me. Still to this day doesn't sit well with me.

I could see that.

Hope this motherfucker's burning. They get life in prison. I don't know. It's senseless. Senseless. Want to take a break? Yeah.

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Yeah, SEAL Team 1 backing up platoon and starting work up again. You know, go to pro whatever. But I got, I got picked to go to JTAC school. And I was like, right on. This is cool.

Like.

And my shooting buddy at the time was Bo Nan Kibble. And Bo's roommate and best friend was JT Tomilson. And JT and his platoon had been picked to be a JTAC as well. And so Bo and JT and I always were hanging out together. I said, you guys are going to go to the same JTAC school. JT And I loaded up my pickup truck with two dirt bikes, snowboards, road bikes, all of our kit, and we headed up to Fallon. And we had two hotel rooms. So one hotel room was the gear box, all of our shit, and the other hotel room we slept in. And every night, we'd go to JTAC school. And then as soon as it was cut, we'd either go for a road bike ride, we'd go for a run, or hop on our dirt bikes and head all around the desert. And I started. When I got out, I started or got back out there. I bought a dirt bike, and I started racing in the desert races. My. One of my chiefs, Hans Garcia, was like, you got to try this out. And so I bought a YZF250, and we would go out.

And the desert races are like 60 miles, 120 miles, and it's just a loop, and it is a physical. Just. It's unbelievable. Such a. It's a great workout, but it's like, as a team guy, being a competitive person, the minute they drop the bomb on that thing, you're just like, pin it. And you're like. Like. And you go until you crash, and then you get up and you crash again, and it's just like. But it is unbelievable. So I started doing that, and we're at JTAC school, and there's all kinds of trails to ride around Fallon. So JT and I are ripping around Fallon on the weekend. We go up to Tahoe. We'd go skiing. He was a snowboarder, I was a skier, and we just had the best time. And during that, I think it was a month, JT and I became extremely close. Like, we. We're together all day every day in class, and then all day every day after class. And. And it was like, he. I just. I don't know. It was. It was. That was the best part of that workup was that trip, you know, dropping bombs. Learn how to drop bombs with the Top Gun guys.

And then that night, heading out on our dirt bikes and, you know, tearing up the single track around Fallon So that was, you know, we came back from that and then my. My troop commander at the time had just come over Team five, Dave Silverman, he said, hey, do you want to augment damnac? And I'm like, yeah, let's send me down range. So I went over and it was right after Red Wings, like when I made it, like they were. Those guys were on their way back and I was coming into country, like passing the airfield, and it was my first augment. And as soon as I got there.

I Damn Neck is Seal Team 6 for those who don't know.

Yeah. And so as soon as I got there, I went over the compound. So you have siege of soda From JSOC and CSODA's Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force, which would be all the foreign guys, plus all of the whiteside, green berets, seals, STBs. And then JSOC is obviously JSOC. Anyways, we. So as soon as I got there, went over to the compound, I mean, they just lost the biggest loss in NSW history. And a couple of my friends, Dave Williams was on the helicopter behind the helicopter that got shot down. And it, man, there was just weight on that compound. It was just heavy. And Kevin Pope was like one of my sea daddies at Team 8. He was a mass chief at the time, found Kevin and like, you know, just what happened. And it was, that was. You didn't. You didn't see the effects of war. And I hadn't seen the effects of war until that moment. You know, like, you saw it on guys, faces that, that were like, they looked older, you know, guys that were young, happy, laughing dudes at the Naval Academy. Like, Dave, like, he was visibly shaken and it was like, like, this is real, like.

And it was, it was a really. I remember that very specifically. And we. I was at the time, I just gotten over there and we were running some of the. I was working the desk at the Omega desk and we were putting together the. So the minute the helicopter crashed, the investigation went from Cjisotoff and it became a Cesar and the authority went to jsoc. So at that moment, all of the investigation was shouldered by JSOC of the Red Wings operation. And they were in the middle of it. And since it was out by Asadabad and I was working with some of the Omegas, which were the outstations, we were tasked with helping with the investigation. And so going through all the reports and just getting to, you know, see, the whiteboards are still. The whiteboards were still drawn with like, hey, you know, timelines. And this went to here and like, trying to, you know, piece this whole thing together. And being in the jock suck, man, it was like the cart, the plywood palace. And one of the. One of the master chiefs, Billy, he's like, he. We had a couple other friend team guys that I had been through buds with, and they're like, you.

You're prior enlisted. I'm like, yeah, you got any good quals? And I was like, I just went to JTAC school. And they're like, he's like, perfect. There's a hilo leaving in 30 minutes for Kandahar. He hands me a lot of cash. He's like, take this down to omega down there. Get out of here and don't come back. And I was like, roger that. And so, you know, I got to that. That deployment was fantastic because it was. I got to call in some airstrikes. I got to see the different outstations, got to see how JSOC operated, which is completely different from how the regular teams were operating in country. And that was a. I mean, went down to. When I was in Kandahar. I was big into riding dirt bikes, made dirt bikes down there. And. And they had a track out in Kandahar at Camp Gecko, which was Mulu Omar's old compound. And Mullah Omar had built a cave. I saw him. Bin Laden had built a cave for Mullah Omar, and it was on compound. And there was a statue in the front of Camp Gecko that had a. It was like his interpretation of what hell looked like.

It was this crazy. Like, it was really freaky. We'd go out on the dirt bikes and rip around the track and we took him into Bin Laden's cave and did donuts. And that was a. I think we.

Were there at the same time.

Yeah, probably. So that would be 2005.

Yeah.

Because we were July and August. July, August, into the beginning of September. Mid September, 2005. When I was there. Yeah.

Weird.

Yeah. The. The 50 meter single shot. There was a plate at 50 meters. You go out in the morning. One shot from the holster. Pistol, steel plate. And then the hike up behind Camp Gecko.

Yeah.

Little workout. Yeah, that was him. I came back and since I was a new JTAC, I went and talked to the AC130 crews, and they were going up to site in a. Said in the 105s. And I said, hey, can I. Can I come along? And they were like, yeah, sure. I'm like, I would love to see from A JTAG perspective. What you see, you know, what is what. I know what it's like to talk to you, but, like, it'll help me picture what you're seeing. So I went up and we were over the range. I was up in the cockpit and the selector, the phone of Ahmed Shah, who was the guy they were going after during Red Wings. The selector popped on a mountain and they spun us over there and they said, hey, man, you want to. We're going to roll over there. You want to clear hot on this guy? And I was like, yeah, like it was a guy under a blanket making a phone call at the top of the mountain. And I don't think it was. I think there's no way it was Ahmed Shah, but it was a bad guy nonetheless.

And so we. He's no longer on a blanket underneath the under bike on top of a mountain. He just picked up the wrong cell phone. Yeah, that was. That was. That was interesting to be in the plane and we're just like, you know, looking down.

What was that experience like?

Just seeing from the pilot standpoint, seeing the flare and how the, you know, everything, how the whole system worked and being in the plane and watching the air crew and sitting up in the cockpit and watching the pilots, AC130 pilots like that. That platform is. That's the most amazing platform we have in the spooky guys. I can't say enough about those guys because they fly low and slow and they hang it out there, man. And the amount of firepower that they are able to bring to bear in a fraction of a second. I mean, because you, you know, you said the. The tgb, the green beam, it's like, it looks like a lightsaber and you just kind of on the ground, you just, you know, hey, Rope. Yeah, I'm Mark here. Call contact. Contact. And then they just start hammering and their precision is unbelievable. So to see that from. From the sky and to watch the cruise and just kind of be present in there was a really amazing experience, but, you know, had the chance to. I'm not sure who we got, but got somebody nice. But, yeah, we came back from that rotation and they immediately put me in.

I had about a month and they threw me in free fall school. And my wife Heather, at the time, not my wife, she was my friend growing up and we used to ski together. She actually knew my dad. I had this huge crush on her. I met her in the sixth grade and I was like, oh, my God, this girl's amazing. And she's a awesome skier, an awesome soccer player. Post college she went and played soccer at wvu. And she's beautiful. I just had this thing for her and I wrote her some music. I sent her, sent her it out to her in the mail on like a cd, you know what I mean? Like, hey. And I said, hey, you want to come out, go on a road trip? And she's like, sure. It's off season in Aspen. She was working as a snowboard instructor on Snowmass. And she coached the soccer team in Basalt High School soccer team. And so she came out for a road trip and I ended up getting thrown into a free fall school. And at the time I was living in Coronado. My sponsor parents from the Academy, the McWaters, they had this awesome house and they had a back alley apartment.

And so they rented me this back alley apartment that was a single car garage converted into a, converted into a living space and bunk beds. I'm 26 years old. I got bunk beds and a tiny little bathroom and there's a dirt bike in there and a, you know, like a love sack. And it was like the crash pad for all the team guys. They get drunk at Danny's and they'd be like, I'd come into my. I come into my apartment, I'd be like, dudes I didn't even know, like crashing. Because I'm like, hey, if you're drunk, don't drive home, just crash at my place. So you'd wake up in the morning and it was like littered with frog men. Like dudes would be coming in the middle of the night, you know, like, hey, can I stay here? Dudes coming. I had, I had this tiny little window and these and I had cinder blocks with like two by eights that were, that had like a little TV on that were on the windows. And I can't tell you how many times dude came through my window and wrecked my whole two by eights. It would be all over the floor in the morning and there's like some half clothed frogman like laying on the floor and I'd be like, hey dude, I'm heading in.

Do you need a ride? Like what team you have? I'm team five. All right, let's go. And so I had this awesome little apartment and you know, I didn't really leave Coronado back then. I love Coronado. Like that is, that's just. It was awesome. Home we go to Danny's. It wasn't the tomb that it is today. It was just kind of light hearted. I met Eric Schellenberger there. And I thought Shelly was a bartender. Turns out he was actually at team one at the time. I was like, oh, you're the bartender from. From Danny's. He's like, actually, I'm in the. I'm in Delta platoon. I was like, oh, cool. So I invite Heather out for. For a road trip, and I'm like, let's just. Let's just hang out and do something fun. She comes out, get stuck in free fall school, and I show up and she's sitting in my little apartment, and I'm like. I'm like, this is my dream girl. And we ended up hanging out six days. And after six days, I was like, you. You want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. And I. I had hoped something like this would happen.

And on my deployment to Afghanistan, I actually ordered a ring from on usaa. So I was like, in the. In the jock, like, ordering a ring. I sent it and it was supposed to be, like, delivered, you know, to the apartment. And they delivered it to the apartment across or the house across the street, because I couldn't find my little back alley apartment. I came home freaking out. I'm like, was there a package here? It says it's delivered. No. She's like, no. I'm like, running around knocking everybody's door. And this woman hands me this, like, you know, one carat diamond ring in a box. And we go to the Hotel Dell and asked her to marry me. I was like, you want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, all right. Gave her a ring. And I'm like, I guess we're doing this. And this is about six. I don't know, we're about two weeks from deploying and a couple more. I'm still tying. We're tying up loose ends before deployment. And I go in and Silverman and Nankibble are there and they're like, so you're going to do this or what? I'm like, what do you mean?

Like, you gonna marry her or what? I'm like, well, yeah, eventually. And they're like, no, no, you gotta do it before we leave. Like, you got nobody to give. You have nobody to sign your sgli paperwork to, like. And I was like, oh, like, let's go. So we all packed it up and went down to the courthouse and. And we, like, the. The four of us coughed up our cash, was like, they wouldn't take cards. They wouldn't take a debit card. You had to pay cash. So we're like. I'm like, you got 50 cents? Like, we scraped the money together, and Heather and I get married, and we go to Danny's afterwards. And of course, Bo and Dave are, like, calling the platoon. They're like, scobell got married. And everyone's like, wait, what? And so they all show up because they're like, who. Who is this girl? And the guys show up, and everybody's. You know, we're all drinking and hanging out, and. And one of the guys goes, Mrs. Scobell, would you like to order a shot for the. For the troop? And she's like, sure. And they're like, what do you. What. Would you like a lemon drop?

She goes, I don't drink that Jack Daniels. And they were like, this is the girl. And so. And so we hopped in the car. After we got married, we hopped in the car. I take that the. The party happened before the marriage we got. The next day was the marriage. We went to Dave's house, we had pizza, and we hopped in the car, and we drove up to do, like, a road trip. And we ended up pulling over at a rest stop, and we slept in the back of my Toyota Tacoma. And so our first night was in the back of a pickup truck. Nice. Headed up to Healdsburg and went up to Healdsburg. We stayed at this place called the Madrona Manor. And it was a cool bed and breakfast. We were there, like, two days, did some wine tasting, and then I bought a ring in town in Healdsburg, and we drove back, and it was like getting on a plane the next day. And, like, it was that fast. And I'm like, well, so I did my paperwork. I'm like, so here's. Here's the deal. Like, I don't have anybody. I don't have family.

I have anybody. But, you know, if something happens to me, then, you know, you'll get this. And. And here are the keys to my car. I don't know. That's what I'll. You know, she. And she. She drives me to the north island, and it's right out of a movie. You got the band playing. All. Everybody's saying goodbye to their. Their families, and we're flying out on C5. And the guys get on the plane, and I'm sitting with Heather, and. And I go, I don't know. I don't know how we do this. And she goes, don't be careful. And I'm like, what? She goes, looks at me just very calmly. She goes, don't be careful. What? She goes, Every time you try to be careful, you do something stupid, she goes, just go all out. Kill everybody and come home. And I was like, all right, I can't her my keys. And I got on the plane and Bo goes, what'd she say? I'm gonna play about. She told me not to be careful. And Bug, I thought, this is gonna be a great deployment. Still better.

Kill everybody and come home.

Yeah. Not to be careful. Everybody to come home. And they were like, dude, that's awesome. And, you know, that was goodbye. And she drove. She never even drove a standard. And she drove my Toyota Tacoma pickup from San Diego back to. Back to the Valley, Roaring Fork Valley. And I bought her a computer, went to the Apple Store. I was like. And we set up an email. I was like, I'll email you and later.

See you in six months.

Yeah, see you in six or eight. Ended up being eight months and that, you know, we got a Baghdad, and it was 2005 in Baghdad, and it was like, you know, you had the invasion, and then there was that lull after the invasion. And then we came in and made a bunch of stupid decisions, like firing the entire leadership of the army, the Iraqi Army. You know, I mean, the makeup of Iraq is, like, about 70% Shia, 20% Sunni, 10% Kurd. And Saddam Hussein was a Sunni. And so he, you know, he was in a minority leading. You know, he ruled with an iron fist, the Shia. Iran is Shia. Right. So that's. You know, they ran Iraq wars over the border down south. So you see, it was a massive influx of. Of Shia, and most of the officer corps of the bath party was Sunni. So when we fired these guys, it was, like, chaos. And that's. You know, these guys all packed up, and that's what started the insurgency. I was like. It was, in my mind, probably the worst decision. And I still hadn't, like, figured out, like. Like. Like, I get Afghanistan.

That one makes sense. You know, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda. That makes sense. What are we doing over here? You know, I was like. It was from a geopolitical standpoint in that moment. Yeah. I was just like.

That's what we were doing over there.

We were what?

Halliburton.

Oh, yes.

That's what we were doing over there.

Yes.

Feeding Dick Cheney's.

We were feeding. I mean, this kind of jumps a little bit. I remember coming in from an op one night, and it was around Thanksgiving, and we roll in onto biap, and we've just been out getting after it, and there's an ice sculpture in the Chow hall. And I'm sitting there looking at my. My chief, and I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like, you know, we had been working with the Iraqi counterterrorist force, and we had no. No budget, right? It's like we're trying to scrape together, you know, gear and whatnot for these guys. And you roll into the chow hall, and there's a ice sculpture. And I'm just like, I remember this is up. Like, this is like, how do you explain to the guys, yeah, we're doing God's work. Like, this is. We're God and country. Like, what are we doing here? You know, I mean, anyway, so when we get there, we kind of got chopped away. It was an interesting time, and the insurgency was starting to pick up, and there was a Green Berets that had trained the Iraqi counterterrorist force. So the SIF companies had been training these guys for about two years, and they had been billed as, like, the Delta Force of the Iraqis.

And so we're like, well, that sounds cool. And they wanted to put an Iraqi face on all the operations. So we were in this, like, hybrid mode of. Of. Of outdoing assaults, but with Iraqis. So, you know, we like, you know, total, like, maybe 10Americans going out, and then, you know, 50 Iraqis. So we get there and we're working with fifth group. So over their time, we're a fifth group, third group, and seventh group. And we were kind of chopped away in this really odd. We weren't. We weren't working for Siege of Sotif directly, and we weren't. We got loosely attached to 17 or 16, which was JSOC. And at the time, like, you know, Delta. That was when Delta was spinning up. Dude, those guys are legends, man. I mean, I remember rolling in the Green Zone and just watching, like, every night, the little birds lifting off the Green Zone. And those guys were just. Just getting after it and slaying people. It was like, holy, man. I got so much respect for the D boys. Those guys, like, they were living the dream during that time. I mean, it was. They were just running a gun.

And so when we got the. We got the. The Delta, we got the Delta Force, the Iraq. The Iraq. And, you know, they break it up. We get over there, and they're like, you're going to take. You're going to take a recce. The recce guys, and you're going to do ground mobility. Because I was into the mobility thing. Like, I was riding dirt bikes. I was doing the. All the off road stuff. And, and we had, you know, NSW didn't do ground mobility, like, until we got to Afghanistan, it was like we weren't allowed to touch anything that had wheels on it because everything that we touch breaks. Like, you know, remember that old saying about, like, you put a frogman in a room with a room with no doors, no windows and three steel balls and he'll break one, lose the other one and get the third one pregnant. Like, that's the. Like, nobody was going to give us vehicles, right? And we get over there, they're like, okay, you guys are going to, you guys are going to patrol in Humvees. And so the NSW mobility was in this, like, infant stages and so it was like, write the book on it.

How are we going to do it? And so at the time, you know, we got over there and, like, looking at the battle space and the IEDs were going up and we were like five or six, like a week. And then it started getting more and more and more and, and so. And I was in charge of ground mobility and the recce guys. And so as soon as we got there, I'm like, hey, I went to the EOD guy and I'm like, let's plot every IED on falconview. So we had falconview, which is flight planning software, and we were actually using that as our navigational software because it's like the only other way you navigate around Baghdad is like, there's like a map, right, and you have a GPS and you try to match it up. And so what we did was we took GPSs, like maritime GPSs, and we would take the GPS feed, put it into toughbook, and then we would download all the available maps and geolocate them, including overhead imagery into there. And then I would start to layer, you know, hey, this road isn't here. The latest imagery of whatever got blown up the night before.

And so we built this database with every IED time stamped and we started to see these patterns emerge. And it was like, you know, right before curfew, IEDs would go off and then right in the morning and they were on the main MSRs, and then you'd see them run the fobs. And so, you know, as a lead navigator, I was like, all right, so we would, I would throw these potential routes in there, you know, red, yellow and green routes, and we would just, we'd head out and I'd navigate. We would navigate on flight planning software so we could use the latest and greatest navigational stuff. The army had a navigational Component in their. In their system. But it was like. Like this big thing in the Humvee. And then your blob was like this big. And it. You can't see, turns you can't. It was like, kind of useless. So we created this, like our guys do. We just innovated. You know, we. We created this database. We created a new way to navigate. And my Recce guys, I get there and I'm like, this is going to be cool. Like, you know, like, we get the Recce guys like they.

Plain clothes. And their mission was to, you know, we would give them. We would give them a location where we. A known location of a bad guy. And we'd put them in a car and they had cameras in the car. And then we would put the. We put an E Trex in it with a hidden puck. And they would drive out. They would go to the. Where they thought the location was, take a couple pictures. They would come back. I download the pictures, and we would pull the breadcrumbs off and analyze the route. And then that night, that was used for the assault force, right? So that's how we were kind of using these guys. And so, you know, and they were also tasked with, you know, human. And so we get there and, you know, we're. We had a great working relationship with the green brace. I love those guys. A phenomenal group. They were just like, we've been training these guys for two years. We take them out to the range. We're like, well, let's, you know, let's see what we got and, you know, let's do some. They're wearing plain clothes, so the recce guys are playing clothes.

And I'm looking at my crew and I'm just like feeling like maybe I didn't get like the. The elite group, you know what I mean? These guys pull out a holster and dude, like, we were diving for cover. We're like, what? The bullets going everywhere, sweeping everything. Come to find out, one of the guys, he had shot himself in the foot like the week earlier in his barracks room. No shot. And I'm just like. I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe, maybe this could be a little rougher than I'm thinking. And I come to find out, like, nobody wanted to be in Recce. So, like, I got the, like the bad news bears of. Of the group. The fifth group guys are like, okay, magical seals. Let's see what you can do with these guys. And we were just like, all right, I guess we gotta. We gotta start training these guys. And the the other side was like, well, take the car. And they were like, no, we're not. We're not driving that car. I'm like, why aren't you driving to. Like, we've been. We've driven this car in every neighborhood in Baghdad. And every time we drive in this is via the Terp.

Every time we drive in there, like, they know the assault force is coming, so we're gonna. They were scared of driving the cars in. I was like, well, let's get them new cars. And, you know, of course, the Green Braves are like, no, we haven't thought of that. You know, we're like, we don't have any budget. We got no money. I'm like, there's ice sculptures in the chow hall, and there's no budget for these guys that are out there. You know, we're conducting ops. I'm like, so one night we go on an op and we kill a guy. And there's a key, there's a set of keys in the room, in the house, and I walk out on the street, and then there's a clicker and beep, beep. There's a Suburban. And I was like, he's dead handed to my new guy. I'm like, let's try this thing back. We drive it back. And I'm like, we gotta. So we had a mechanic that worked there. His name was Ali. It was either Muhammad or Ali. And I go to Ali. I'm like, hey, you know, we need to sell this and buy a new one.

And I'm working with my terp, who's Sudanese, you know, and he's doing the go between. His name was Pete and Ali. He gets it right away. He goes, yeah, me go Baghdad. And the next day he comes back and he's got a new car. And I was like, I'm sure he's, you know, sold it, kept some money, whatever. I didn't care. So then I'm like, where else are there cars around here? Like, well, the diff has got cars that we confiscate the interrogation facility. So we sneak over there one night and jump the fence. We start looking at cars with Ali, and we're like, pick a couple that can be fixed. And so we gank those and we steal those, take them Baghdad, swap them out, bring them back, rig up new cameras. Now we got. We got. We've got new, new stuff. Meanwhile, we're trying to train these guys who they're not. These guys are not elite. The one morning I'm like, hey, all right, guys. You gotta be here tomorrow. Nine o'. Clock. Lt. Mahamadou looks at me and goes, inshallah. He leaves. And I look at the terp and I was like, God willing.

He's like, they're not coming. At 8 o', clock, 10 o', clock, they show up like, hey. And I was like, all right, next day, I'm like, 8 o'. Clock. They're like, inshallah. So at 8:05, I'm standing at their barracks with a flash cash grenade. I was like, I'm screaming out and they're running by me. I'm like, inshallah. You'd think that would get them motivated. They showed up at like 9:30 the next day. They're like, we're, you know, it's better. I'm like, we're making progress. So we started scavenging. You know, we, we started scavenging and you know, I go to the dump and I found like a CB generator and we'd sell that, sell that on the black market, use the money to buy new equipment and gear. And we were training with them and, and they started to get more capable. I mean, you know, like, they were getting more confident. You know, we teach them how to shoot from the holster. We get them some new gear. Like I stepsister worked for North Face and I called her up and I was like, you got any like old North Face gear that you guys don't want?

Because they would see us in kit, you know, we'd have like cool, cool guy stuff. So I had her, she, she mailed over a bunch of old stuff from the, that was like laying around, extra inventory. And I handed it out. These guys get like black day. They're like, we're really cool guys now, you know, running around. And Ricky like started to become like, cool as that was going on. Dave Silverman, who's just, you know, I call him the Silvermanian devil, He just knows how to get done and he, he just spins. And Dave's working liaison piece and we send some, we send our, we send a couple guys up to MNFI. We send a guy over to, to 16 and at the time, you know, like, there's a whole bunch of, you know, inner, there's rivalry everywhere, but it was just like inner inter service rivalry. And within the army, from the Green Braves to, you know, CJ Soda to SIP or JSOC to sif. And so we send one of our guys up there and, and he won over the trust and they started farming out targets to us because we had, we had the Iraqis.

And so our op tempo started to increase. And so, you know, they'd come back. I take the information, throw it in the. Throw it in. Falcon View. And we started. Our op tempo started to increase. And just during that time was when all of the cell phone stuff started to take off. And that's when like, Delta's ops went to like, four a day. I mean, they were just like, just over and over. And, you know, we. They started winning, we started winning their confidence, and a lot more targets started flowing to us. I think what also happened was they just had too much work, and we had the. So they would send us to the sensitive stuff. Anything that was. We don't want an American face on that. We need an Iraqi face on that. And we had this amazing working relationship with the fifth group and third group. And out in the field, I mean, it was just awesome. A handful of team guys, handful of Green Berets leading this hodgepodge of, you know, our Iraqi dogs out and about. And we ended up going from one op a week to four a day.

Four a day. Yeah.

And we cleaned out the top 10 deck a few times. We caught, like, a number of number four Alkar. I mean, the stories out of that, I mean, we're just making happen, dude. Like, you. You're trying to figure step out one of the. I went to the green zone one day, and by this point, you know, it was. That was like wild west of Baghdad in those times. Like, you know, you'd leave out of the flying man. You'd leave, you know, from the flying man, head in the green zone. You cross that big bridge, and then you entered the green zone, and every time you'd roll out of there, it was just like RPGs and small arms fire, and everyone would button up, and it was just like a race course, like convoy after convoy, making the. You know, the beeline. And what I found was like, you just drove in a regular car. Nobody shot at you. Nobody cared. So everybody. My assault force was sleeping all day, and they were up all night. And since I was working with my recce guys, I was up all day. I just. I'm like, hey, I need.

I need to get done. So I would just take one of the cars that we still drive in and meet the guys in the green zone, get target packages, come back, and, you know, we were just making happen during that time. And it was. It was a. It was crazy. It was. It was one of those, like. But it was. It was team guys doing what team guys do, you know, Make. Make it. Make a way. It wasn't. And it wasn't all pretty. You know, like, I remember you just. We'd be. We'd be out like herding cats and with. With the Iraqis, and you're just like. I mean. I mean, our salters would go in the room and instead of having a gun on, they would have their hands on the back. They'd be like, you over here, you over here. Like, directing. It was. It was that kind of, you know, but, you know, hey, we make it work. And, you know, I can remember being on, being out there and seeing the Delta, like, coming by, like, taking off from the. The Green Zone and the. In the little birds. I'm like, it's like thoroughbreds.

Wow. And I look down and I'm like, riding glue stick. This is not what I was expecting. But you know what? We're getting work done. You know, everybody's experience over there is different. And, you know, that. That, you know, a bunch of interesting little stuff happened during that, but it was. It wasn't until the end of that rotation. That was when the Solder City uprising happened. It was like March of 2005. I don't know if you recall that. There was a couple car bombs that went off in Solder City, and it was just like, tensions were really high. And our force was like this. We're going home.

Like, are you serious?

Yeah, they were. I remember sitting down the Iraqis, because they would rotate every two weeks. So. And, you know, you get a new batch in, it was like a new. New. Everybody every two weeks would rotate. And when this civil war kicked off, I was like, hey, I gotta go home and defend my family. And. And we had the same kind of demographics of the force. You know, we had, you know, 60% Shia, 20 Sunni, 10 Kurd. And, you know, you could see the guys, like, percolating. And I remember during that time, like, trying to, you know, like, hey, we're. You guys are the future of Iraq and trying to, like, mend this. This. I don't know, it was unnerving because you're going out on target and you're just like, are you going to turn on each other? You're going to turn on us? Are we in the wrong neighborhood? You know, it was a really. That was a. That was an unnerving time. And we had sent guys out to follow. Essentially. There was a one guy we had been looking for, and we hit his house, but like, a soft hit because he had a sister, and we had hit the house and we had essentially made friends with her, and she didn't like the guy we were going after because he abused his wife.

And so we'd convinced this girl to just take a cab to where he lived. And our guys were going to follow it, mark the target, and come home. And that was like, right as the uprising started. And while we're conducting that, they, like, I'm on the phone with these guys and they get rolled up and it's like hell breaks loose in. In Solder City. And it. They got grabbed and silent. Probably six guys we've been working with, and they got tortured. They got tortured and killed, and they get stuffed in a morgue. And our assault force, all of the guys, all the Iraqi counterterroris force guys, and hopped on the gun trucks and drove in to the morgue and they went, Winchester all 50s. They were shooting pistols out of the turrets, dug through the morgue and got their guys, bodies. Damn. And they came home.

How did they torture them?

They had cut off their genitals, put them in their mouth. They'd skinned them. They had, they had drilled. There were drill in their legs. They were drilling them. And I. This was Iraqi on Iraqi. It was like. And those guys, man, they fought their way in, fought their way out and brought their brothers home. And I, I don't know why we went to Iraq. I really don't. But, you know, we always talk about, like, why do you fight? You. You fight for the guy next to you. And I was, I was really proud that day of what they did. And they went in there and they fought to the last round, dug through a morgue and got their brothers that had been tortured and brought them home. And, you know, I'm sure it went against. They were in the wrong neighborhood. There were. There were, you know, Shias and Sunnis and Kurds fighting together. Like our. Those guys went in there and just duked it out. They brought them back. And I went to the head of the ICTF and I said, let's. Let's get the families. And I nailed her coffin shut. I'll never forget that.

I personally nailed her coffin shut because one of the guys Saad had given me gave me a gift and one of the red headdresses, and he gave it to me, like. And, like right before that, like. And he was like, just. He'd given me that and, and it was his. He went on that opinion and I was like, this, we'll bring the families in. And we did the best that we could. I nailed the coffin shut personally And I gave him back. And I could never explain why, you know what I mean? Like, that was it. I started to lose a lot of. We were supposed to be doing good. We're supposed to be. This was supposed to be a positive, you know, we're going to free this country. And I was just watching what they were doing to themselves. And the only good I could find was in the brotherhood of. Of those warriors. They were amazing. And you know, I joke about at the beginning, there were the Bad News Bears, but they fought like lions. They really did. And we came back from that rotation and I actually flew back early, about a week, because I had gotten orders to SDB team 1.

My old boss said, don't take it any downtime. Get an operational, you know, Chance, take another operational rotation. You know, we came back from that one and Heather picked me up, actually. I landed, flew to Colorado, met Heather and I was like, hey, we're going to Hawaii. Pack your. And we got pregnant with Lena right after that. She got pregnant. I hate when dads are like, we got pregnant. Yeah, not us, it's them. But, you know, now all of a sudden it's like, we came back and, you know, coming back from that was the first time he's like, you, you within 48 hours of seeing that and being part of that to sitting in a restaurant in Aspen, Colorado, having dinner. I was like that short of a time frame, and I was just like. I remember having second thoughts about what we're doing, but I was excited about going to the undersea stuff. You know what I mean? I'm like, I always want, like the frogman thing was why I came in, but that. I still can't get that one out of my head. I can't get a rack out of my head because it just could never.

I never got the answer to why. And I think a lot of guys, we lost a lot of really amazing Marines and just Americans in general, but guys that I. Marines that I knew personally from the academy. And it just never sat with me. Never sat well with me. But coming back after that, it's just the sheer. Where you go from this massive violence to you're in a five star hotel restaurant in Aspen, you're like, this is. Something's wrong with this picture. And you're trying to be okay. And at the time, I was okay.

To your new wife.

Yeah.

You've barely spent any time with.

Yeah. And so you talk to her about it? No. So she have any idea? I don't think at the time. I just kind of kept that to myself. Why would you say, like, so what were you doing? I mean, nailing coffin shed. You know, some of the. Some of the nights were worse than others, you know, I mean, we flipped Humvees off a bridge one night off the bridge going into Baghdad. We're trying to teach the Iraqis how to drive. And Iraqi police got into our convoy and our guys tried to. The Iraqis tried to get him out of the convoy, lost control, and they flipped the Humvee with a bunch of ICTF assaulters in the back. They flipped the Humvee off and they landed upside down. And then the ambush started. And I, you know, that was a night that I, I was heading out to another op and they were calling the qrf and I rolled up and I was just like, oh, my God. You know, we're like picking up body parts on. On the street. And the rack he just got. There were two seals inside the car that were okay fortunately, but the Iraqis in the back.

When the Humvee went over, it flipped upside down and laid on top of itself. And it was just. It was just a mess. I mean, I remember walking up to that scene being like, oh, you get shot at, you're just like, holy. You don't see this in. This isn't in the movies, you know, like that literally pick up a hand. That's in a movie, but, like, literally pick up a hand, throw in the back of a Humvee. The Iraqis were like, freaking out on our ground force commander Will Hodge at the time. Like, you get. Get helicopters here. We're like, the, the hospital's right there. And they're like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't. If this were Americans, you'd get helicopters. And, you know, some of the Iraqis were really emotional, like, ripping their body armor off while we're getting shot at. And you're just like. I remember pulling up to the scene and seeing Will, and I'm just like, dude. And he's like, just get them out of here. Get them out of here. And we were putting body parts and Iraqis in the back of a vehicle. And. And this is all kind of happened at the end of the deployment.

Like, it was like, it, it was like quiet, quiet, quiet. And then ops ramped up, and then it was just like everywhere. And the stress of the, you know, that was right at the time when the EFPs showed up. And you saw the pictures of the EFPs, you know, it's a shape charge and explosively formed projectiles that The Iranians had built and shipped over and you know, the offset was already built and they were using the, the garage door sensors where they would put the garage door sensors out. So when the front of the Humvee broke the, the laser, it was the perfect distance. So the EFP would go off and go through the passenger side and the driver's side and suck everybody, the overpressure would suck everybody in the Humvee out. And I mean these IEDs were happening everywhere. It was just like, and I remember the Marines were building like arms that stuck out over the front. Remember that? They drive around like that with the arms. That was the best you could do, you know, like, let's let the bomb go off and take out the front of the Humvee. Let's stop the, not stop the bomb.

I mean, you know, and then we were doing four ops a day and it was just like, it was that, that ending, it was just like this.

I mean, are these ops? I mean, are they all kinetic?

Oh, what?

Are these all kinetic ops?

Yeah. So what was happening is, that's when all the signet stuff was kicking off and they were tracking selectors and you know, essentially what would happen is these, they would start popping, they would green would head out and they were hitting and whatever was left over they were passing off to or the, or the targets. Like, you know, we hit the Maw Ali mosque one night. You know, they didn't want, they don't want, they wanted more Iraqis on assaulting a mosque than a Americans. And so when there were sensitive targets like that or anything that was quasi sensitive, they would send us. And so we ended up as this like additional arm of green during that rotation. So it was just individuals going after. But what's in it? You know, I think that's the hardest thing for me was like they're HVTs, well defined high. What is a high value target. Like, you know what I mean? Like what, like when the risk got to that point, you're, you're putting, you're putting all these people at risk. In my mind I'm like Strategic force tactical operation. Like is the juice worth the squeeze on this?

Or we just, are we just chalking up numbers and you still can't explain to me why we're here in Iraq. You know, like I, I, you know, never.

Did you, did you personally go kinetic?

I mean, like shoot somebody? Yeah, yeah. And the most of the engagements happen in for us. For me it wasn't in the house, it was out the street. So as soon as you pull up and you breach the door, that's when the come out. And so, yeah, we were engaging guys in the street all the time. That was, I mean, 100, 200 yards. Like, did I hit him? I don't know. Returning fire? Absolutely. Yeah, that. I mean.

I mean, how did all the killing feel to you?

It wasn't in my.

Do you even have time to think about it?

No, that we were at the. At the end when we were hitting targets, it was like most of them were either the wrong place or a dry hole. And so that was frustrating as well, because you're. You're following, you're chasing the imaginary cell phone, right? And that's the bad guy. And so again, the engagements for me were out in the street, guys pulling up tinker pot shots, driving off to getting in gunfights with the Iraq or the Iraqi police. You know what I mean? It's just like, you didn't know who the. Like, who's. Are you the good guys? Are you the bad guys? And with the. With.

They're thinking the same thing.

What's that?

The Iraqi police and the Iraqi army.

100. Because when we, you know, we were driving everywhere, blacked out on Nods as fast as possible. Like, that's. I'm like, hey, we go on. We go blacked out on nods. Drive as fast as you can, keep a low profile and avoid IED alleys. And it was. And then, you know, they just kept. They start dropping more grids. So you're hitting a grid, you know, and tensions are rising. It was the. That's when the solder city started. And they just. All over the country, they were bombing different churches. It was like everybody just wanted to fight. And we were kind of trying to navigate that, if that makes sense. It wasn't like a, you know, the team, three guys that came after us, you know, they had a completely different. They were. They were moving to. Moving to engage as, you know, full platoons. But we were out there onesie twosies with, you know, five. Five Iraqis or, you know, taking them from point A to point B. So you're. That was always unnerving for me because it's not like I got 40 seals with me. I got five seals who are. Or Green Berets who are managing the.

These guys and literally running around. I mean, it was. Was chaotic. That was. That. That. It just. It was like this, and then it ended here. And then it was like, now you're home. You know what I mean?

I do.

It was like this slow build yeah, this isn't so bad. And there's a lot of funny that happens. You know. I always like to remember the, the funny. The funny moments more than you know. We, we had a rocket hit next to our trailers and shrapnel went through. My guitar was sitting up stand when our trailers were all in a circle and everybody's doors fly open. Everybody okay. My chief, my chief was standing across rock and roll. And I was like butt ass naked. I'm like they got my guitar and rock and roll. He goes those sons of turns around and slams the door. I'm like, I'm like come on man, are you gonna get my guitar? Like this is. You know it was. Yeah that rotation was again it was like this and then you know that the ending of nailing the coffin shut and was like go back to your trailer, pack up your shit, fly home. It all happened in that period of time and I left and they just kept going for the next. I mean they were. I think they. I don't know how many more ops they did before they got on the man.

I was probably home two weeks early and they, they, they went all the way up to the the gun and then four days. Yeah man, it was crazy. And I came home and orders and packed up and I was there when the guys came home, you know, said goodbye to the platoon and then we went to STV school.

Can you describe what SDV is for the delivery vehicle?

So it's a 22 foot mini submersible. Sounds really sexy. Battery powered mini submersible. Submarine Submersible. I guess not submarine. It's wet inside so it's not dry. So you know then you navigate with Doppler. You do GPS updates.

I've got about that's run by batteries.

Oh yeah man, I didn't know that. Oh dude, short out. They zap you with the butt. Dude.

I never wanted to go there.

STVS is.

I always envisioned it is looking at a screen packed in there freezing your ass off all the time. No dude, just constantly wet.

I always tell this. I tell the story all the time. My one of my. My pilot was Tebow and Tebow was actually attached to seal. Team one was with me in Iraq. So when I got to SGB Team 1 he's my platoon. We knew each other pretty well from being overseas together and so he ended up being my pilot and we went up to you do a regular workup but you're diving every day. I mean you're underwater six hours a day in, in Pearl. I mean you Underwater all the time. And then you're using different rigs. You know, you're using traegers, using Mark 16s and trying to learn how to fly the boat. I mean, back then I think they have much better stuff now, but back then it's like fly by wire, dude. You know, you got a, you got a stick and you got a potentiometer and you're filling up tanks inside for buoyancy and you're just kind of bobbling through the water and it's like a. I remember we got there, I was like, this is it. Like, dude, you're going to send us. Like, we're screwed, man. This thing is not.

It's like, I mean it. But then you, you like anything else. You know, you get good at it and. But I remember, I always tell the story. We were in Keyport, we do cold water training and you know, water's 42 degrees up in Seattle and, and Jeff and I were doing a. About a 8 to 10 hour dive, 42 degree water. And you're wearing crushed neoprene wetsuits. And you know, you can try everything like diapers. You're eight hours, dude. You know, you guys are trying diapers. You got pee tubes with catheters. You, you know, you're, you're wearing. You try everything you can to stay warm. They keep you alive, but they don't keep you comfortable. It's like, you know, like right at that edge of like, what the fuck is. This is where you sit for 12 hours. There's no food. You can try some water with like a camelback and try to, you know, suck it under your face mask. You got a full face mask and you got boat air. You got all these rigs, you know, I call it the Death Rig Mark 16. It's always flashing, like balancing out PPO2 of oxygen.

You're like, I'm going to die at any second now. Like, this thing is just not made for success. Jeff and I, we had two guys normally would fit. It can fit four guys in the back. And you pack them in and maybe you pack them in. Like I remember being on top of Matt Leathers and it's snowing out and I'm on my knees on his Draeger and I'm trying to push him in and shut the back door. And Matt like undoes. He like cracks his valley. His lips are purple and they're huge. He's just so up, sir. I'm like, I know, dude, get in there. Pops it back in and you know, shut the thing. And then six hours later, you know, you open it up and you're just like, how you doing? What have you been doing down there? And they're just, you know, they got their emergency regulator and they're just packed in like sardines. And the level of misery is. The level of misery is just next. It's. It's just. On another. It's so hard to describe, but this one night, Jeff and I. And the boat breaks. I'm in. The boat breaks all the time.

There's just something wrong with the boat all the time. The navigation systems are like Windows 95. You know, they're like. Decide to just reboot. You have like three windows computers, and you're flying on a battery operated thing in saltwater. Like, you think this is going to work well, see, it's not going to work well at all. And so we're up in keyport training and we do like a bottom up on the aircraft carrier. So you drive into the aircraft carrier and you can see the screws on your. On your obstacle avoidance sonar. And you're. And you get underneath the aircraft carrier and you blow. You put some water in the boat and they pin it and the guys go out and they go swimming. The aircraft carrier, it's not like there's the edge. Like, it's. It's huge. You know, when you're under there, you're not getting out from underneath there. And you just sit while the combat swimmers go do their. Whatever they're doing, taking pictures, you know, putting on Olympic mine or something. And you just sit there and you have your full face mask on. You're just breathing. And you have a. What's called a brick.

And you can. You can talk to your pilot, talk back and forth. And you're just breathing. And our boat just started like, all of a sudden, valves started blowing, like, over pressure, like dirt. You know, it's hand tightening, you know, like, so valves break. You know, all of a sudden, air starts leaking in the pressure relief valve. The boats just start erupting. All the gages go everywhere. You know, Thibaut and I are like, the boat, our STVs bounce along the bottom. It pops out, and there's a dive soup boat. And I'm, like, laying on top of the stb, trying to get it back underwater. Like, no, no worry. Don't worry. Sneaky guys here. No one's gonna see us push the boat underwater. And I'm like, all right, this thing's screwed. We got to get out of here. And it's about an hour and a half back up to where we were. And you got to go through, you know, ferry channels where you got to do excursions down to 50ft so you don't get hit by a ferry doing 18 knots and get cut in half. And Jeff and I have been in the water about eight hours.

And at this point, you're at like that breaking point of like, I can't even. I can't even believe. I don't know why I'm doing this. In your mind, you have gone to every dark place and you're finding dark places to go. You're just like, why did. What am I doing with my life? Like, why. Why am I existence? What is this existence? Why are we here on Earth? Like, you are just like, your mind's going. And I hit the next leg, and it's like. And the number pops up on the screen, like, how far you have to go to the next leg of the dive. And it's like 12,000 yards. And. And I hear Jeff and I hear this, and I'm like, look over. And there's a. There's a screen, so there's some light shining in his mask. And then I hear Jeff again. He's like. And I was like, dude, are you crying? And he's like, yeah. It's like, I'd quit, but there's nowhere to go. I'm like, it's okay. We're gonna be fine. We only got like another two and a half hours and about. And then there's silence in the boat. And you just hear the humming of the motor.

And all of a sudden I'm like. Jeff's like, it's okay, buddy. And then the potentiometer breaks and the boat's at full blast. He's like, how far do I go? I'm like, just go as far as you can. Crash on the surface. Like, it's over and you know, it. I mean, it's like night after night of this just clown show. But, you know, you got to figure it out.

Yeah.

And guess what? You know, you're not. You're having this night. The next night you're on Dodge Soup, and. And you're sitting in the cold rain, and you're watching the buoy, and you're watching them figure it out, you know, and you're watching the shit. You know what the shit show is down there that these guys are doing? And. And. But what ends up happening is over time. Like, pilots are this magical existence. Like, when you find a good pilot is a unicorn. It's like, you know how to do this because nobody else can do this. And we had. We had a couple amazing pilots. And yeah, I had some of the. One of the guys from the platoon who became my. My best friend, the platoon, Matt Leathers. And Matt was like, he was an Alpha platoon of. From STB1 with Mike Murphy and. And the guys from Red Wings. But he. When they split up the platoon, he went to Iraq, they went to Afghanistan. So his whole platoon dies and then he comes back and Matt was. He quite. I think he was the most talented human being I've ever come across in my entire life.

First time I met Matt, we get to. We get to Pearl and we're doing a bottom up. And he's not even a pilot at the time. He's like. And I'd never done a bottom up. He's like, hop it. I'll pilot. I'll go with you. And I don't even know who he is, but I know that my chief doesn't like him. He's like, we're getting rid of him. He's pain in the ass. He doesn't listen. And he just, you know, he's on his own program. So I'm like, whatever. So Matt and I do this dive and we have this like, bottom up and you can't see anything. The. The tide's going out, the ship's coming down, and Matt is. He's a magical pilot. And we get done with this op. And I'm just like, dude, that was amazing. Like. And I'm like, we're keeping him. And he could do anything. He was an artist for Disney when he was a kid. Like, he could draw. He would draw our platoon. So I would. I'm like, matt, you know, something funny would happen and I'd be like, draw a cartoon. So you'd walk in, somebody fuck up, and they'd walk in there with.

There'd be this like. Like beautiful cartoon of, you know, somebody showing their ass. And we kept this running tally of this and anything Matt touched, he could pull off. One day he asked me, he goes, hey, can I have Friday off? I want to go play this golf tournament up on the North Shore. And I'm like, what? I don't know. You play golf? He's like, yeah, yeah, it's a. It's a qualifier for the US Open. I was like, okay. Like, now I'm just morbidly curious. Like, I didn't know. Like, okay. He comes in on Monday and I'm like, how'd you do? He's Like, I won. I'm like, what? He's like, well, I didn't have a driver, so I had to use the driver out of the guy's bag that I was playing with. He's like, but he didn't mind. I'm like, wait. He's like, but I got. I didn't win because I didn't have a handicap. And that guy had a 5 handicap, but I won, like, shot wise. And I'm just like, dude, you. This is unbelievable. And he decides he wants to learn how to play guitar. And I'm like, yeah, good luck.

I've been doing this 20 years. Like, he's playing as good as me, you know, and you know that we ended up, you know, we. We were out there for about a year and Heather and I, you know, the STB portion was that operational part I really enjoyed because it was. It was different from the regular teams because you're all in that together. There's no good job. There's no, like, there's no kush. Like, every job sucks in SCP platoon and everybody is sucking. So you, You're. It was. It was a very much. Like, there's only about 50 team guys out there, I think, at that command, but it's a huge command. And when we first got out there, Heather's pregnant and she's like, I gotta find a place to live. And so McWater is my sponsor that she had taken orders out there and she was out there, so we were staying with them. And we're looking all over the island like, I can't find a place to live. And Heather's getting pregnant and getting upset. She's like, I'm going home. Fuck the Navy. Fuck you. Like, we can't find any place to live. The bah is high.

But there was, you know, it's like you walk in, there's just mold, you know, you couldn't find any place. And Commander Sass, who was my CEO at the time, he's like, there's a place on Ford Island. You know, check it out. There's all these historic homes on Ford island that were actually in the movie, in Harm's Way. John Wayne's house is from that movie. You can actually live in it as a softer housing. So I got there and there's this. There's one duplex open. And so I go over to base housing and I walk in and mind you, it's like, commander, Commander, Captain, Captain, Captain. And so I go into base housing and there's this Samoan woman just stone faced And I was like, hi, I'm a jg. Like, my wife's pregnant next to me. And I'm like, is there any way we could look at 4806 Yorktown Boulevard? And she goes, no. It's like. Laughs at me. And I'm like. She goes, Pulls out her desk and she goes, this is the waiting list of 4,806. And it's just like a list of names. And they're all 04s. 05s. And she's like, you would be number like 42 on the list.

And I'm like. And I'm in my khakis, you know, I'm just like. I'm like, please, can you help me? No. So we go back. Heather and I are fighting. She's like, screw this. I'm done. I'm gonna go back to Colorado. You call me when you're done with this Navy thing, and we'll. We'll. We'll do this. So I go to the Navy Exchange and I buy flowers and I go back to the. The housing. And I walk in. I'm like, put her on her desk, please. My wife is going to leave me. She's pregnant. This woman's like, no. I'm like, fuck. So I get in the car, I'm driving away, all of a sudden my phone rings and I answer, and I'm like, hello. And this the same woman. And she's like, giddy. She's like, is this a cute lieutenant that was just here? And I'm like, yeah. She's like, I have a house for you at 4806. And I was just like, sweet, nice. So she scores me this house. And Heather and I move in and, you know, we're doing the workup, dive in, like, just learning this new tool, which every day was just unbelievably.

It was just like comedy every day, but really rewarding. And I love the team guys out there. I love that unit. And comes around, we're getting towards Christmas, and she's getting ready to pop, and she's not worried about it. She's like, we're good. She's an athlete, Division one athlete. She's like, just pop this thing out. We're going to move on. And her due date comes and goes, and she starts going to labor. And I'm like, okay, we're 10 days late. This is good. Let's get this thing. Let's get it on. Labor starts kicking up, like three hours contractions, like every three minutes. She's like, puking bile. And I'm like, take her to the hospital. And they're like, she's not ready yet. She's not dilated enough. I'm like, listen, I've known this woman my whole life, and she's tougher than me, and this is not right. And the woman looks at me, she goes, it's called labor for a reason. It's supposed to be hard. Take her home. We go back two more times, finally get her into the hospital, they break her water. She starts into labor. And I'm like, something's not right here. And one of the midwives comes in, the nurse midwife.

And she's like, all right, start pushing. And Heather's pushing. Nothing. Nothing. So we're at. Now we're at like 50 hours of labor, and now we're into five and a half hours of pushing. And she's. My mother in law had flown out to be there, and she's a nurse. And I'm like, watching, like, my wife's badass, but I've never seen this amount of, like, effort and pain. And now you see the whole nursing staff just start to get, like, nervous. Like they start freaking out all of a sudden. Well, this one doctor walks in and he goes, well, you're kind of too far along for this option. That option can't use the. I don't like to do forceps. And you know, she. And I'm like, wait. And it basically said, well, what do you want to do? And I'm like, find me somebody who can answer that question. Like, I'm not the guy you ask in this situation. I want to ask you, and I want you to have an answer. You don't ask me. So he leaves, and this woman comes running in. She's got her keys in her hand, her Starbucks. She's like, I can flip that baby.

And I was like, you're hired. And 54 hours later, 54 hours of labor, six hours of pushing, they break out the forceps, and they're yanking my wife off the table, and her vitals are plummeting. I'm like. And flashing through my head, I'm like, I'm gonna be like, my dad, she's going to die, and I'm going to have this baby. And I'm watching my wife and my mother in law. People start coming into the room. And this pediatrician walks in, he's like, everybody stop. Who paged me? Baby's not born yet. I want to know who paged me. My mother in law. And I was like, get out you're either here to help or get out. My mother in law like owns the room. She's like, you and you, you need to leave. You stay, you stay. They ripped the baby out of my wife and I stay with Heather. And I was like, I've never seen, I just come from Baghdad and all that shit. And I was like, I've never seen anything like that. And I've never seen a woman do that. My mother in law scooped up the baby and owned. She was, she worked in Shriners Hospital for 30 years.

She was fucking amazing. My, my. And I, I just sat there with my wife. I'm just like, well, that was easy. Holy 54 hours of labor and Lena was born. It. I've never seen anything like that. But I have to give my wife props on the next level, like tough as nails. And then, oh, by the way, hey, we got a deployment. So. Yeah, I know we got a three month old, but, but I'm gonna leave. And during that time I'd screen for the command and I was like, yeah, I got this boat job and they're offering it for platoon commander. I'll take the boat, I'll see if I can get it. That'd be kind of cool. I like mobility. Let's you know, I'm seeing a mobility kind of theme in my career and now I'm checking the box on all the groups. I get group one, I group, Group three, group four. So major command for me is I got a lot of options. But you stayed regular SEAL team. As an officer, you're only going to command, you know, a regular team. But if you have STVs and you can command an SDV group where you command, if you have boats, you can command boats.

You have J side command command. And so the command is develop group.

For those that don't know.

Yeah. So major command. And I was like, wow, that's a cool opportunity and that'd be good for my career. So I screened and then we deploy and that's the one thing I won't talk about. We did an STV mission and it was the, I will say, the highlight of my NSW career. Hands down, coolest thing I've ever done was sit in the slipstream of nuclear submarine in a place you're not supposed to be and pull a monkey fist and fly away and knowing that you're the only people in the world in that moment doing that job, that was the highlight. Coolest thing ever.

Damn, man. So this is after you screened?

Yeah. So we go on deployment after screen and we Go. Blackout on deployment. No emails, nothing. No communication. We surface the boat and, you know, antennas go up. Four months later, surface the boat, and the download of emails pops in. Like, sorting through emails. Like, I'm like, oh, I got picked up. Oh, that's cool. Like, oh, orders came in. Oh, my wife has already moved. Oh, I started green team in five days.

Holy shit.

Like, and I'm looking. There's tickets for me as I'm. So I run down. I pack all my. The guys that help me pack up my stuff. I. They put me in the van, they drive me to Tuman. They fill me full alcohol. They drive me to the airport, and I hug my platoon goodbye. Was the last time I saw a Matt hug. Macabre. And hopped on a plane four days later, flew to Hawaii. I checked out. I flew to. Flew to Cleveland. My wife picked me up. She's like, what the fuck? I just had to pack up our house for the newborn. Our dog. I just drove across the country with my mother. With my mom. I got us. I'm staying at the house. I found us a place in Virginia. And you're going to start this new command. I was like, well, it's a. It's a. It's a training command. We're gonna take a break. I'm just there to test boats. And she's like, whatever. So again, we get pregnant with Walker, and in that time frame, it's it. You know, if you look at Navy officers, the kids are all two years apart.

Because when you come back from deployments, usually you got a window about five days, and your wife still likes you. So I start green team, and welcome to the command. Five days after being on a sub for four months, and we kick off Green Team 2008. And Heather didn't know what it was, and I didn't tell her because we, at the time, nobody. I didn't even know it existed. When I check into the command and they give you the brief and they're like, SEAL Team Six. I'm like, this joke. I was like, it's real. That's interesting. Yeah. Then nine months of. Nine months of green team, which was great. Green. So I'm doing the boat side, but we. The air portion is everybody's lumped together. And that's where it almost came to a screeching halt. Jonas Kelso, who was the troop commander on extortion, he was in the class with me, myself. Nick, check a handful of guys from the class. We all decided to float the Salt river on a weekend during Green team, and Jonas and I were the two officers. And beforehand, we're like, all right, we signed designated drivers, and we send designated drivers.

Everybody gets in their tubes, bunch of alcohol. There's middle of green team. You kind of threw that portion where you know you're going to make it, and everyone's ready to just take a wrap off, and we're floating the river. We get to that pull point, and Jonas and I are well tidied up, and so are our designated drivers. Looking around, we're just like, dude, you know you're drunk, trying to tell a guy. Like, what were you doing? We're like, all right. So we pack everybody up and a couple. Most of the leadership, couple chiefs, myself, Jonas, our medic, Tori and Nick, and we're hanging out, and there's no cell phone coverage. We're just like, all right, how are we going to get home? We can't. There's no Uber. This is like 2008. And Nick's like, dude, I. I didn't drink. Like, I'm fine. And I'm like, no, we're not doing that. He's like, trust me. I can just. Like, we got a pickup truck. We can pile everybody in. We'll go to sail to the hotel. It'll be fine. I'm just like. Jonas and I are looking at each other. We're just like, nick's a junior, man.

I'm like, no, we're not doing this. This is bad decision. And he's like, I'm fine, Pete. I'm like, all right, it. We're gonna sleep out here. Hop in the car. Like, not like, we literally pull out of the parking lot, and it's like they pull us over, and of course they scream they smell alcohol in the car because there was plenty of alcohol in the car. And they give Nick a test. He passes the field sobriety test, and then he blows. He blows up the legal limit at 0.08, and they arrest him. And I'm just like. So we get guys, we go to the hotel, we grab guys, and we go to the DUI checkpoint. We start making calls back to the command or back to the green team cadre, which is like, hey, this happened. Jonas and I are just like, well, that's it. You know what I mean? Like, I went in to see the head of green team. He starts tearing into me, and I was like, hey, I got it. I take full responsibility. Like. Like, he's a good kid. He was trying to do the right thing. Like, it's me.

Like, I'm an officer. Like, keep him, but don't he. He was trying to do the right thing and we put him in a bad position. Dismissed. We finished. We finished that portion of green team. And I'm back and everybody's just kind of like waiting for the shoe to drop. Like, what's going on? All of a sudden the green team cadre's like, hey, get your cammies on. Head up to the CO's office. And I was like, here we go. I get my cammies on. I get up there, Jonas is there, his cammies. One of the other officers Bloom there, our chief Bloom quicks there. And we march in and it's commanding officer, every squadron commander and every squadron command master chief. And the ass chewing starts. Like, what the were you guys thinking? Just, I mean, like, I've never been. They were inventing words to call us. I mean, it was. But to a certain point I was like, Jesus, like, this is the hands down the worst ass chewing I've ever gotten. They go to Jonas, they go, what do you have to say for yourself? And Jonas is like, at this point in our careers, I should be able to trust my men.

And he said he was good. And, you know, and he was right. He what? He said what Jonah said was right. And they just tore into him. And I'm like, Mr. Scobell, what do you have to say for yourself? And I was just like, I take full responsibility for Petty Officer checks actions. Like, he's a good kid. You can delegate authority. You can't delegate responsibility. Like, I, I'll take, take one. Like, just keep him though. He's a good kid. And there's silence in the room. Like, Bloom, what do you have to say? He's like, what Pete said more of an out showing. They're like, all right, get out of here. And I thought that was a great time to throw out a classic line and Top Gun. I was like, hey, Jonas, you got that number of that truck driving school? We might need that. And the whole room erupts in laughter. And we get outside and the head of green team comes out and he's got these non punitive letters of reprimand. And he hands them to Jonas and I and he's like, get the fuck out of here. Like, pull your shit together.

And Jonas, you know, we go back to training and we both make it through. And it's. It was. That became kind of an interesting interaction. They kept, you know, Nick. And when I left my last day at the command, I was. We had moved to last day at the command, I was leaving, and I see Neck on the quarter deck, and he's like, hey, man, where you going? I was like, I'm leaving. It was at post TBI stuff. I'm leaving. I'm getting. I'm gonna. Going to the West Coast. He's like, dude, he's like, hey. He gives me a hug, goes, I never have to thank you. He goes like that what you did. Like, I love my job. I love coming to work every day. Like, I really thank you. I was like, yeah, man, you're a great dude. And that was the last thing he said to me. And I always, you know, I always keep that, like, letter of reprimand as kind of a. As a thing. After Nick had died, I went to one Navy, two Navy SEAL foundation events. One of them, his. This is probably five years ago. His girlfriend at the time walks up to me that, you know, she.

He was dating at the time, Stephanie. And she goes, are you Peach Gobellar? And I said, yeah. She goes, nick left a list of people to think, and you were on it. And I wanted to find Nick's mother asking me to. If I. You were one of the guys that I wanted to. Needed to tell that to. And I was like, what? Wow. You know, I. That was like one of those, like. And I still. I still talk to Stephanie, keep in touch with her, and she. That still. I get chills when I think about that, you know, like, Nick was number one man on the hostage rescue op that Ed Byers won the Medal of Honor, was awarded the Medal of Honor for. And he got shot coming through the door. And I still, like. I'm glad he stopped me on the quarter deck, though, and said, thank you, but I had no idea that he had, like, written. Told his mother about it. And she thought to come make sure I was aware of it. So Nick's mother and Stephanie, thank you. That was a gift from. That was a gift. Truly a gift.

Anyways, let's take a break. Pete, what's that?

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Yep.

And so you went to Gray Squadron?

Yep.

And I've never had a Gray Squadron guy on before. So can you, can you describe to the audience what Gray Squadron is?

Yeah. So Gray Squadron is a mobility component at the command. If it's got wheels or it floats, they drive it. And so each squadron has a component of Gray Squadron that's attached to it and supports all the underway hostage rescue ship takedowns, ground mobility elements, panders, what we used to have, I don't know if they have them anymore. They were using up armored six wheeled vehicles. So if it has wheels and it moves and we get guys from point A to point B, that's what gray is. Okay, so it's the pain. It's the pain train.

So is gray attached to a specific squadron?

There's a. Each squadron has a gray Troop attached to it. And so you're usually the fourth troop attached to each squadron. Yep.

Who are you attached to?

The first at the beginning I was attached to red and then I stood up Gray Blue.

Okay.

And so I was attached to red when I first. We first finished. We were. They had pulled all the seals out of gray and put them in the assault squadrons when Afghanistan kicked off. And then they gave the boats back to the SWICK guys and then they started bringing SEAL officers back in to expand Grays. Gray went down to lake port and starboard for a while because of the combat rotations and then they were bringing seals back into gray and that's how the job opportunity opened up for me to come over there and do my platoon commander in gray. And so I thought, well hell, I'll just go over there early and then I can do my time there. So yeah, the gray portion of things is underways ship take towns. We have. Our NSW has a whole group that does all of our boats. Any kind of drop off, any kind of, you know, insertion and extraction. The gray portion is, you know, we do airdrop. So we'll drop the entire package and do a four boat drop with all the assaulters and take down a ship. So that's kind of like why the command exists really is to do, to have that response element for the ground.

Whereas Delta exists for, originally existed for hostage rescue of airliner. So the core mission set was ship takedowns. So the grace, the grace piece was stood up in order to facilitate that for a helo assault force, Boat assault force or just a boat assault force. So we trained to do. And you know, see on the Internet the boat drops. So you're doing a, you know, These boats are £25,000. You're driving from 8,000ft, you know, at night on nods.

Damn.

Yeah, it's a pretty, it's one of the cooler things you'll ever experience is watching a boat get ripped out of a C17 at 140 knots. It's super intense.

How did it feel being over there?

Being an officer over there? It's like officer hell week every day. There's always something spinning. You're always planning for something. But it's, it's, it's, it's a weird, it's a weird command as officers. You're not really welcome over there. It's an enlisted man's command. You know, you're kind of looked upon as like a short timer. You know, you're in, you might do a rotation, you go away and you come Back. It's a lot of times guys don't spend, you know, you'll get a enlisted operator that'll spend, you know, 20 years over there. Whereas as an O, you might spend a decade or so, maybe 15 years, but you're in and out. You're not there for the long term. It's a different relationship between officer enlisted over there, I always thought.

Interesting.

Yeah, interesting.

What were some of the highlights of your career over there?

So you mentioned the Captain Phillips mission. I had just gotten to the command, and we'd finished up green team, and Walker was born. Fortunately, quick birth. He came out like a grease pig. We joked around, and he was like.

And second one usually does, right?

Yeah, exactly. Lena paved the way. Walker was born, and he was about two months old, and I was heading into work, and I remember just leaving my wife. And the night before, we knew that the Alabama had been taken. But we were like, what do we. What do you want us to do? They had left in the dinghy. It was kind of like. So we spun up, and then it just kind of percolated. And so we were kind of watching it, like, starting to. Starting to move in the planning session. And then we just hit a pause because it was like, we can't do anything with the dinghy. Went home. I woke up the next morning, and I was like, hey, I'll grab some chicken. And I hopped in the car, headed into work, and I got there, and it was just like, mass chaos. Like, dudes running everywhere, and they're like, get upstairs. So I threw my cambies on and ran upstairs, and I walked in, and it was like. Like, there's a joint staff on the vtc. And they're like, where's my gray? I literally walked in like, where's my gray? I was like, here.

I just got to this command. Like, I didn't know anybody, really. I mean, I'd finished a green team, and it's like four months after that, I think. April.

Damn. Right off the bat, huh?

Yeah. So you're so like, you know, I get over there, and I'm like, what's going on? We had two of our liaison officers who were two of just rock stars, and they start feeding me intel, like pieces of paper. Like, hey, Basically, he's in the dinghy. We got a shouldering ship. The Bainbridge is here. They're moving the boxer. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. We have the package ready to go and packages standing by of four boats that are rigged for drop, and you can be launched with a four hour window anywhere in the world with the C17s. And I'm just like, okay, so. And at the time, the CEOs like, all right, tell them what the package is. I give the joint staff with the packages and we're just kind of holed up and we're doing the calculations and they're like, hey, we got to make a decision, otherwise we're going to do a night drop. And they're trying to figure out like all those scenarios, right? Like, you know, okay, it's a dinghy, but he's getting close to shore. Are we going to go over the beach and is he going to be taken ashore?

And then we're going to do a full OTB hostage rescue mission. Like, we were trying to figure out all of the contingencies at one time. And normally you have to pick. It's like, hey, if we're doing a ship takedown, you have this gear. If you're doing a OTB takedown, you're going to do this gear. And there are different loadouts that go on the plane. And our CEO at the time was like, we're taking it all. We're like, okay, like, hey, we're taking it all and we're taking the whole squadron and we're taking all of our support personnel. And so, you know, you normally have.

Just, holy shit, you guys are taking all of that?

Yeah, they didn't know, you know, like, you're going to get over there and like, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have to the point where we started spinning up a third, we spun up a third C17. And you know, everybody's like, we thought what was going to happen is we're going to spin up. This is what always happens. You spin up and it gets to a certain point and then they don't push the go button. And then you spin back down. And that's a constant. That's why it's a constant cycle. It's like a constant planning cycle at that place. And that's why as an O, you're like walking in like, all right, we're going to do this. Go figure this part out. And you go back to your office and you start figuring out. You walk upstairs, you're like, all right, I got it. And they're like, scratch that, we're going to do this. So it's like a constant, you know, churn for planning and, you know, hey, listen, if we want to do a day drop, we have to leave. We have to push the button now. And joint staff was like, all right, go.

We're like, holy.

This is Easter Sunday.

This is the day before the day before Easter. Right? We're a day before Easter. And so we just. You know, when you watch the machine kick off, it's like semis with boats, and everybody's got their go bags packed, and everybody's pulling armory guns, the whole deal. Busses, they're all numbered. Like, this whole system is set into Place, and C17s fly in. You know, my. My job, you know, I wasn't in charge of the whole lot. I was in charge of getting everyone there. I was in charge of the boat drop. And, you know, we had, at that point, had never done a real full mission profile. Boat dropped. It was like. It was always on the books. I think they had jumped in once before, but it had never, like, gone all the way through with, like, a green light, I think. And so it was like, holy. This might. This might happen. But in the back of my head, I'm like, nah, we're just gonna fly over and land in Djibouti. This thing's gonna resolve itself, and we're gonna be in Djibouti for, like, two weeks, and then we're gonna fly home. Like, that's what I.

That's what everybody was in everyone's mind. And we were all like, it's Easter, man. Like, like, my wife already hates me. No, now I'm about to leave, you know? And so we launch, and we get in the air, and it was. I think it was, like, the heaviest lift in C17 history. I mean, I remember when the plane took off, and it was, like, screaming like, dude, we're gonna crash into the trees at the end. It's gonna be the world's shortest mission. Like, congratulations. They're all dead. Anyways, we launch, and we. We head east. And, you know, through this whole, like, workout phase, everybody's just exhausted, you know, I mean, you're planning. It's like pulling gear. Everyone's like, how are we going and getting guys in the right planes? And. And we take off. And soon as we take off, you know, you got a long flight, and everybody just passes out. And I get us. I fall asleep on one of my boats, and I get shaking. Guy climbs up on my boat, shaking. I mean, it's, like, tall. It's, like, taller than the ceiling where I'm at. A guy climbs up in my boat, shakes my foot, and dude's like, hey, come with me.

And he's one of the liaison officers, but he's wearing army cammies. And there was another guy with long hair. And so he takes me up into the cockpit and he grabs the mission commander and he goes, tell him what you told me. And the guy goes, I lost calm that I don't know where we're going. They just told me to fly east. We're like, what? What do you mean? Like, we got like, $10 million worth of equipment here. Like, figure it out. He's like, we're trying right now, but we don't know where we're going. The satellites were dedicated to, you know, they start going through the details of why we lost comms, and I'm just like. And so my team leader at the time, he comes up and he's standing next to me, and he's like. Brought up an Etrex gps. And I'm like, the liaison officer, myself and the. And the army liaison officer were looking at. We're like. And you remember the Etrex GPS is just a.

Like, about as basic as it gets.

Pick an outline of Africa. Yeah. You know, we're like, well, it was here. The boxer was here. And it was going south at 18 knots. Like, so how many hours is that? We're doing time, speed, and distance. And the Air Force guy go, hey, we gotta. We got a great coordinate. We're good. And we kind of. We kind of take back. And fleet liaison officer, being really smart, he copies it down real fast, and he comes over to us and he goes, put it in the gps. So we. We put the g. We put it in. It's like dead center of Africa. And, like, I gotta go brief my skipper who's downstairs. And I'm just like, guys, like, I gotta go tell him something, and I don't want to tell him this thing. And so we pick a we. We go literally on a Etrex gps. And we're like, it's right about here. That's the drop zone. We're like, fly here. And the pilots are like, look like, are you serious? We're like, yeah, absolutely. And the army liaison officer is like. He's like, do the calculations. They're like, well, it's still going to be a night drop because we got to refuel over Saudi Arabia.

And he's like, no, there's a refueling route over the Red Sea. And the pilot goes, well, I'm not authorized to use that. And he's like, you're authorized right now. And I looked at the army guy. I'm like, like, yeah, I like this dude. And so literally we did the calculations. It's like, we'll do a last light drop. And I'm like, okay. Because we had guys that were people that were free fall qualified, but they weren't operators. You start doing a night drop with a bunch of guys that you know are qualified but not like, you're going to kill people. And I'm like, this is not good. And every. We all knew it. Like, this is not good. We're taking admin people in. And. And so at the. Still, at the same time, in the back of our heads are like, we're going to get diverted and land in Djibouti. So we all go back to sleep. We wake up, like, hour and a half out. They're like, all right, you got to start prepping for drop. We're like, we're really going to fucking do this? Like, you, you know, with the CEO, command master chief, everybody's like, all right, start prepping.

So my guys start prepping. We're pulling bags. We start loading up the boats. And there's scales underneath the boats. And the load master that flew out with us is like, he comes and grabs me. He's like, dude, dude, we're like 10 or not about £3,000 per boat over the weight. And I was like, well, how much fudge do we have? He's like, none. There's no fudge in this one. Like, if those things go out, they're already 25, 000 pounds. Like, those things go out, those. You're gonna lose the boats. And I'm like, well, that's not what I wanted to. So I. We climb up there, we're like, hey, we gotta start, like, scraping some gear off here. Like, this is over the top. I remember at one point, one of my guys opens his pelican case, this gigantic pelican case, and inside of it is a fucking printer. Like, this little HP printer. We're like, who brought the printer? Like, what is this? I'm like, take out the cartridge. You can bring this. It was one of the admin guys. We just start ditching stuff. And it got to the point where, like, we're right at the edge.

And so guys are like, well, I'll jump in my personal gear, which is like, we'll just rig it. And all these guys. I mean, this is the best. This is the best. Our guys jump. Like, nobody jumps. They jump, you know, 30,000 free falls a year. Nobody jumps as much as that command does. And so we start rigging it, and turns out one of the young comm Guys who had just gone to like comm school and he did really well. So he gets assigned to Naval Special Warfare Development Group. Not knowing what it is, he's on the watch bill and he's not jump qualp. And so we're like, we'll just tandem him. And I'm like, this poor kid's like, hey, I, I didn't sign up for this program. And we're all kind of like, we're looking at him and, and we're all like looking at each other. We're like, well, we gotta with the dude. So of course the guy that's tandem, tandem, he's like, I walk over and I'm like, how you doing? You know, like they start putting the harness on them and they're just like, don't worry, this, this works. You know, 30, 40% of the time this kid's just like, what?

Like now we're doing this, man. And, and you know, one of the other part that was funny about this was, you know, we had all these, we had like 90 people and two planes, right? We're flying everybody over there and the shitters backed up. And so like the, the first part of the drop was like, you know, the first, first bags that go out of the plane or the, the, that clogged up the. When we dropped the ramp and we see the boxer and I, I was like, I, I, this is actually going to happen. And we start rigging for drop. And the first thing that went through my mind was like, dude, I forgot to take the trash out. Like my wife is going to be. So I turned to my team leader and I was like. And he's like, what, what do we forget? Like going through all the checklist, I'm like, I forgot to take the trash out. My wife's gonna be pissed. He's like, dude, you need to focus. Like this is happening. And I'm like, all right. And I'm going, I'll be number one man out of the plane. I'm like, it, you know, like if this thing in back of my mind, I'm like, if you don't see four boats, then I'm just not going to pull my chute and burn this thing in because I don't want to answer for this show.

And so we did. The first pass was the boats. And so what you do is you, the boats go and then the boat drivers go. And then, you know, you free fall in 5 second hop and pop and you start chasing your boat, boat to the water. And when you get there the boat's rigged up with a platform and they carry the slide it out of the plane. And you cut that and you sink it. You sink all the chutes. And you get in, you start your boats and then you motor in the direction of the wind so the plane planes can come around and drop the assaulters. And we get down there and it went perfect. It was like the. I've never done. I'd done like one bow drop before that. I just got through training. Like my second boat drop. I'm like. And everybody prior to that, it's like, nah, man, these things never work. One boat we burn boats in, We've like, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. And we get in the water and all four boats are there. I'm like, they're not going to start. You just drop these like super high speed, extremely expensive boats out of a plane at like 8,000ft.

Like they're not going to work. And they work and motor in the line. And then the pass comes by and it's 80 dudes. And the light, it just fills up the sky with blue shoots. It was just like, holy, man. And the Boxer had. The Boxer was our. The shouldering ship that we were jumping into. And all the marines were out there lined up watching this, like the arrival of us. And, you know, guys are piling in the boats and it was like, holy shit. We actually, this worked the boats. Everything happened. I called in to the jock and said, hey, you know a hotel at the time, my call sign like called in the jsoc, like all present accounted for. Moving to the Boxer. And apparently, you know, the whole jock center lit up. We're just cheering, we're like. I think most of the team guys are like, it. I can't believe that actually worked. You know what I mean? Like a lot of moving parts in that we got there and we have to. Now we get into. We were crane in the boats on and we have another drop. We're bringing more boats, we're bringing Zodiacs, we're bringing lawyers.

Like, they start moving heaven and earth immediately. They send the snipers over to the Bainbridge. And we had another contingent that had jumped in. Jonas actually had jumped in with a handful of guys from Africa to the Bainbridge. And our guys all linked up on the Bainbridge and started getting eyes on the dinghy. My portion of the story from where I was, I was on the Boxer. And at that point we start planning for how are we going to salt the dinghy.

What's the Boxer?

It's A flat top Navy ship. It's an amphibious ship, okay, with helicopters. So it looks like an aircraft carrier, but it's a flat top. And so we start planning for an assault. Like, so, you know, a bunch of guys sit around like, how do we assault a dinghy? Like, what are we gonna do to. Like, how's this gonna facilitate this? And the snipers are over on the Bainbridge, and a handful of. A handful of operators are over there. And I think that was the point. I think Richard Phillips talks about this where he. All of a sudden, one of the boats from the Bainbridge shows up, and he looks up and he sees one of our guys, which is a stark contrast to what he had been seeing from the regular fleet guys. It's just like, here's a dude with this massive beard, like, gigantic Neanderthal covered in tattoos, and he's like, hi, sir. And he was like, oh, like the calvary's here. And you know those guys. I think what was amazing was that was like, we were trying to figure out, like, okay, what do we do? And at one point, the plan had come down to us from up high that we were going to ram the dinghy.

So we were going to take two boats. I was going to drive one, and we were going to put snipers in the other. And I was going to drive at the boat. The. The dinghy he was in, hit it and roll it. Because they write themselves. So I would crash my boat into it, roll it. And the idea with doing that was we would knock the. Disarm the pirates and knock them all over the place. We knew that Captain Phillips was taped to the pole in the middle, like, he'll be okay. There's going to be a shit show in there. And then the second boat was going to quickly roll up on it with snipers and board and take out the pirates. So that was like our. That's what we're doing. Like, Like. But meanwhile, the guys that were on scene, they had hooked up the boat and they started reeling it in. And, you know, you got to remember, like, we don't know what's going on outside. We don't. We don't know what the news is saying. We're just like, dude, it's Easter and I want to get home. Right? Like, these guys are all like, you know, multiple combat rotations.

Like, this is not a big problem for us, right? Like, this is like, what the fuck are we here for? Was really the overarching. Like, this is kind of crazy because it, you know, we thought when we dropped in like, okay, it's going to go to shore, and then he's going to be held on shore. And then now we have. This is our bread and butter.

Man, that's crazy that you guys had that attitude. I mean, it wound up being such an iconic event.

You know, I think at the time it wasn't. Nobody thought it was iconic because, you know, they started reeling the guys in, and one of the pirates that he had been stabbed on the, on the Maersk by the crew, and his wound started to fester and he was like the leader, and they were like, do you want medical care? And when he bowed out, he's like, yeah, I want medical care. And they brought him on board. Then it was his three, like, underlings that didn't have any idea. Like, they were just kind of like, what do we do now? Like, our leader is gone. And so wait a minute, you, you.

Did what you brought him on the boat for? To give him medical care, Right?

So they, what they initially said was, hey, you guys don't want to go to ashore here. You're in your. The enemy tribe.

How are you communicating with them?

They would just go over and talk with them face to face. They take the boat from the, Take a boat from the, the Bainbridge over and say, hey, listen, you know, you don't want to go ashore here. You're out of gas. We'll tow you south and then you can go ashore there, but we're going to help you out. We're your friends. And they were like, okay. So that's how they got the hookup. And then, you know, that guy was the lead pyro was wounded and he was, you know, I guess he started to plummet. You know, this. Now you were on like, we're day three or something. So he'd been out there for a while and he had a knife wound, and so he was starting to like, hey, this is, is not good. Getting infected. Like, his nerve, you know, he's, he's plummeting. And so they were going out, taking medical care, talking, hey, how can we help you? You know, trying to liaise and, and make this like a peaceful. Just quit. Just, just quit. Give us our guy back and then you can go free kind of scenario. So it really wasn't.

I mean, we were stoked that we did the drop and everybody was just like, fuck, yeah, that was cool. Like, okay, now what do we do? And so sniper started reeling them in, and they got him within like 25 yards. And when the head, when the lead Pirate got off. Now you have the three. His three underlings and one guy's head. One guy had his head out of the. The opening, the front of the hatch. One guy kept sticking his head out of the side to see what was going on. The third guy was in the pilot house. And, you know, the snipers at the time were like, let's just end this. And the SEAL that was there was like, yeah, man, do it. They took the shot, and it, you know, took out the pirates. And then one of the seals jumped on the cable and like. Like, fireman's crawl down the cable, which I thought was the most. The most badass thing that happened during that was like, holy. Like, he. Fireman's crawl just like buds down the. Down the slide for life. For life. He pulled the slide for life. Slide down the cable.

This big ass, you know, Navy tow cable covered in grease and got on board and, you know, secured, secure. Ken Phillips.

Wait a minute. How many shots was it with?

A lot more than three. I mean, when I, I. When we got the boat back, there was. I want to say they. Each guy got maybe three. And it wasn't like. It wasn't one.

It wasn't one simultaneous shot.

No.

Three snipers.

No, I mean simultaneous, but it was, I think, a handful of rounds. I mean, you got. You're on nods. They had.

It was at night.

Yeah. So you got your appeals. Your lasers are on nods. Snipers dialed in. Was not a. They made it out to be this like. Like, you know, Obama was like, oh, my God. Like, I was on the radio, and that was 3, 2, 1. And they made these miraculous shots. They were great shots. I mean, awesome shots. And they. But I think at the time, the guys were just like, let's get this over with. That was my take on it. You know, I mean, guys were. It was Easter, Easter, and I'm here, and I want to be at home. And so, you know, it was done. And we're like, let's get the. Out of Dodge. And then they started spinning like, hey, we got all these other ships out here. Let's start, you know, let's start planning and picking them off. And we were like, oh, God. And that all got canked, and we ended up flying off the boxer. And then, you know, the. The route home, we flew.

Were you on board when Phillips came back?

Yeah. How did.

How was he?

Dude, he. He looked like I was there when he. When we brought him off the helicopter and brought him in. And he was deer in the headlights, man. He was just like, and when I saw him after that, he came out to, you know, kind of thank us and walk around and you check out all the equipment. And we had brought the dinghy up onto the deck of the boxer, and. And he was just very. Like, he was very thankful. He was like. I think he snapped out of it and was just like, holy. You guys. You guys did this for me. I think he said it. And he took pictures with everybody, and he was just very gracious. He was a really nice guy. But when he first got on board, I was like, that dude is. He is, you know, Stockholm syndrome. He was. He was a hurting man. It was. It was a. It was a pretty amazing feeling. Like, when. When it all wrapped up, we were just like, wow, like, everyone. I can't believe we just pulled that off. Like. Like, we are pretty cool. And we're stuck on the boxer.

And then. And so this is where it all went downhill, in my opinion. We're stuck on the boxer, and we're watching CNN on the big screen, and Vice President Biden at the time gets up there and he goes, man, those. He's like, the guys from Seal Team 6 did a great job. And we were all like, did he just say that? I. I know. Really. It was like this moment in the room where we were like, dude, what the fuck? And in my mind, all of our OPSEC and everything from the teams, that was a moment. It went out the window. It was like when the vice President just blurted it out, like, hey, the guys from Shield Team 6 did a great job. It was just like, in my mind, that was the downfall of our. Everything came unraveled after that. You know, I wouldn't be here talking about it if that hadn't happened. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It was like, yeah, so. And then we're still in the boxer, and then there's a South park episode that comes out of, you know, dudes like, South McCartman shooting somebody off the fan tail of a Navy destroyer. I'm just like. I was like, this really escalated. This went from, like, within, like, four days, you know, my wife takes I work at a training command to Cartman, like, all in one, one thing. And, you know, I. What was interesting was, like, you know, we're getting home. We flew to Mumbai, then we flew to Qatar, and we started standing up. A new school, a new task force. And then I flew to Balat, and I spent another. I don't know, another month gone.

No.

Yeah. And so that turned into me, like, working to help stand up A new task force for that area of the world. It was like moves fast in that place, man. And hey, you're, you're, you're, you're. All the other officers were in the squadron. They're just like, dude, thank you, great guy. You go. And so I end up in Balad wearing the same pair of pants for the next, you know, next month plus, you know, doing task force.

What are you doing over there?

We were just standing up a new task force for the Horn of Africa and that's where a lot of the, you know, missions after that came from. It was like a division like okay, now the, the wars, the war was shifting gears at that point. It was like, hey, Afghanistan, Iraq is eh. And you know, a lot of the Horn of Africa and Al Shabaab and you know, iq, aq, Yemen, Arabian Peninsula, aqap, those guys were all standing up and it just the got, it was like the war was shifting. They knew like we, we owned Iraq and Afghanistan, so now we were, they started to play out into Eastern Africa and Somalia. And so you know, operations went there post post that I came back from that and of course my wife was like, what else, what else are you going to tell me what's next? I was just like, I got to go back to Afghanistan, got another rotation coming up in about a year from then. So. And my job was to take these, the swick guys and teach them ground mobility and then take them over and we're going to drive trucks, these panders in Afghanistan.

And so we, you know, we went and we stood up a full ground mobility component with swick guys and they were awesome.

Right on man.

They were awesome. Man, I was so proud. My team leaders, they just, they're unbelievable. But you know, we start, we took, I took all the mobility stuff that you know, we'd created and you know, this is, this was new. It was like, let's fucking figure it out. And the sweat guys were the perfect guys to do it. And so we, we did that workup but during that we're still driving the boats. So we have, still have to maintain our capabilities to drive the, drive the boats. And you know you're doing 40 knots and 10 foot seas. You know we've done testing on those boats and that's where you know, you do 40 knots and 10 foot seas. The G forces are astronomical. 69, 70 GS per hit. And you're wearing your nods, you're wearing your helmets. And we came back from that and you know, we're doing regular workups and training. One night I was out. Normally we were short people, so I would throttle a boat. We had. We had three guys that drive it. It's like professional offshore racing boats. And we had a new guy, and I was like, hey, let's get him.

Teach him some throttling. And I was working on talking to. We had a P3 over that night. So I was like, hey, I'll work on some C2 stuff. And hitting it, hitting the radio. And he. We stuffed the boat, which is essentially like. He timed it wrong. And the bow of the boat went through a wave. And so you go from 40 knots to underwater and stopped in a matter of seconds. And I woke up in the back of the boat, and I had sheared off my night vision goggles. I slammed my face on the bat, the board on the. On the transom that was there, and I'd been knocked out, and I didn't know how long. And we were 26 miles out to sea. And I called all stop. They were like, you okay? And I was like, no. I mean, I was up. And my team leader's like, well, you got two options. We can medevac you, or we can finish our run. And I was like, fuck it. Let's just keep going. And we're big seas at night, and I don't know how many more concussions I got. It was like. And that was a.

That was one of the most. That was a really pivotal moment for me from the concussion standpoint, because. And then the injury started. I. I had. I got three herniated disks in my neck that night, and I got my. I don't know how long I was out. And then the cognitive deficit started in like. Like, I couldn't. I was driving to work without even knowing where I was going. I was vertigo. I was throwing up randomly. Like, I'd be sitting in a brief and be like, excuse me, go out, puke. Come back in. And I'm just like, holy fuck, this is. But what are you going to do for a concussion? You know, back then, it was just like, just, Charlie, Mike, keep going. And so we. We worked up and we redeployed Afghanistan and we took the ground mobility component. That's when I was in deployed to Jalalabad and I was assistant strike force commander. We had a troop out there with the helos, and we had our Panders and the Rangers, and. And we had a few of the Omegas under our command, and we were conducting ops in northeast Afghanistan, and it was like, hey, bringing these new mobility guys over and you know, you know the team guys, they want to fly, they don't want to ride, you want to get ied.

We weren't friends of the, they were just like dude, we want to go near you guys. And you know, during that rotation it was really, that was a, that was an interesting one because we started to win favor first with the Rangers. We had a Ranger platoon there. Our guys shuttled up to Mazari Sharif and left me down in Jalalabad with you know, a troop that was spread out at the Omegas. And then I had my panders and my Rangers and we just started, we're like start hitting targets and so we started going out and we went out. We had a lot of success. Rangers were fantastic. They were really great guys, man. It was like well we got this. I, I pitched it as we're brown on the ground, like where do you want to go? Where's the target? We'll drop you op extract, set security. You know, I had mar fliers, I had automatic weapon systems, you know, basically joysticks, 50 cows, 40 Mike Mike's armored, like let's, let's get after it. And we just started hitting a bunch of targets with the Rangers and they were, those guys are awesome, man. Those guys were absolutely phenomenal.

I've been blessed every unit I've worked with and I've got to work with a lot of units and see a lot of different parts of NSW and a lot of different parts of the military. Every one of them was awesome. And the Rangers are. No, no, no, no, no. Those guys were rock stars man. I was working out with them every night and they were good to go. They were young. That's the big difference I found like, you know, with the, with the sealer you got like a 35 year old guy who's you know, a lot of combat at that point. Like our guys had a lot of combat experience at that point. I mean like a lot. And the Rangers were young kids who just wanted to get dirty and they were willing, they were willing to sit in the back of a pander. They were willing to do the, the hard work. And so we got a lot of work during that, during that op. During that time. One of the last stops I went on, actually not last stop, but was around Christmas, Christmas Eve actually. We pulled all of our guys together at a abad and there was reports of a AQ fighters that had come across the border and were storing all kinds of fertilizer, like thousand pounds, thousands of pounds of fertilizer.

IED Parts up in this like remote area north of Asadabad. And the road to get up there, no one in the army would go on because we, at the time they had, they were putting IEDs in the, in the wall. And it was along a river and like the Colorado river, not a small river. And they had blown a bunch of army Humvees into the river. And so beyond a certain point it was like, we're not going up there. And the troop commander at the time came to me was like, dude, you think we can get the panders up there? And I was like, yeah, we can do that. And so we headed up, we pulled the whole troop of assaulters, they all met up in Abad and I took my guys and we drove up and on that drive, I had my sit in the back, I was sitting over the middle wheel and I had my helmet off. And it's a quick, we drive really fast, blacked out. And the, the idea being by time you hear us, we're past you, you know, the faster you go, the better off you are. And no lights.

Don't, don't acknowledge it. So we're hauling ass. And it was really quiet at that point. It's Christmas, it's around, around Christmas and just, you know, December, everything slows down in Afghanistan and ID goes off underneath my seat. Like my, my seat and it blows me straight up and I hit my head and I got knocked out. And we were like, what the. And I just kind of, you know, everyone's like, and it's just me, my comm guy, I don't have any assaulters in the car. So it's me and my calm guy and my, my weapons guy who's here and here. And then we had one of the drivers and he's in his little driver's seat in a Panda. It's like, it's a six wheeled up armored vehicle and the driver's got like this little like, he sticks his head out and he's all bulletproof grass glass around him. Ate automatic weapon systems on top. And the thing went off underneath my seat and I mean I was just like, what the fuck? And we're still rolling. And it turned out it just blew that tire. So the tire that I'm sitting on was shredded and, and I don't know if it was, I'm guessing it was an ID or it was an rpg, I don't know.

But it hit that tire that I was sitting on and blew me straight up and knocked me out. We pull into Abad and they're just like, what's going on? I'm like, dude, we just got id. My guys being the rock stars that they were tire off, tire back on. We spare with us. They're like, everything's. Everything's good to go. The tire shredded and the rims, but we're still operational. All right, we're going Charlie, Mike, let's go. So we load up these alters and we head up into this. It was like the worst. The worst area you could go into. No one had driven up there. The Pandas are already wide as they are. And you have a straight cliff on one side, a straight cliff on the other side. Going up, one going down, one going up. And the river is raging. And I'm just like. And we're trying to navigate, you know, all of our panders into this area with the assaulters. We get to, like, we found a little area to pull the vehicles in. We start turning them around for exfil. And then we put up our MAR fliers to be. Basically, we had these pneumatic poles that would extend up with Marfilia so we could watch the assaulters and go in.

And we had our RWS systems, remote weapon systems that we could over overwatch on it. We had great success with those things. I could. It was like having a sniper because it would do windage and elevation instantly on the. On with the joystick. He just basically, like, we had engaged. We had engaged guys up on the ridgeline one night during an assault at a thousand yards. And they had RPGs, and they were sitting on a ridgeline watching us. And my guys found them, and I was like, yeah, go for it. Like, single shot, knocking these guys off. Wow. Originally, I mean, these are. The RWF systems were amazing. So we start doing overwatch and salters hit the target. Start. They call troops in contact. And then the ground, the GFC just starts dropping bombs. And, dude, he dropped like 20,000 pounds ordinance on these fuckers. And there were 18 guys up there. I think 18 or 19 guys, and they killed them all. And so now we just dropped 20,000 pounds of ordinance. There's one way in, one way out. We just let everybody know that we're there. We've got planes flying overhead. Everybody asked over tea kettle back to the panders.

And we're trying to get out of there as fast as we can get on the radio. And our command element says, you guys gotta stop at the FOB to do a battle space handoff. I'm like, what, like the little army outpost that's up there. You got to go tell them what you did. And I was like. And the ground force commander are looking at each other like, that's a horrible idea. We need to get out of here as fast as we can because there's only one road. Like, this is. This is not a smart idea. They're like non negotiable battle space handoff. So we pull in and we got another flat tire. So my guys back at it, pull that tire off. Myself and the ground force commander run in. We wake up this guy, he's in his like, you know, his Ranger panties and T shirt. And he's like, why the are you guys here? We're like, we have to do a battle space handoff. He's like, okay, thanks. Like, get out of here. We're like, okay, well, they're. They're all dead. This bad. Can't even leave. I mean, that was pretty much the extent of it.

Like, pile back in the panders and we head out and come around a Corner. And about 25 fighters had set up an ambush on us. And the first. I was looking at this, looking through the thing, and I watched the first RPG fly by. My driver had. I saw the, like, I was like, oh. And over the radio, they're like, contact, right? And I turned my. I'm. I'm sitting across from the. The gfc, the other, the assault troop commander. And you know, I'm like. And I turn to my combat, I'm like, call it in, dude. And he calls in troops in contact. And our guys just went to town like this unbelievable maneuvering and RWS systems fly over. And I had a 40 mic mic on mine. And I watched, I watched a dude pop up with an rpg and my, my gunner shot him in the chest with an rpg. I mean, shot him in the chest with that mic micronade. Wow. Because, you know, everyone. You can hear the 50s going off and all the other vehicles and all the gunfire, I mean, it was just like, like, holy. And I look at the RWS screen and I.

And I'm like. And he's zooming in on this dude and I'm like, we got a 40 mic mic. And he hits the guy and it's just like white on the screen and the dude just disappears. And we, we slow down, clear the area. And I'm like, hey, do we want to set security? And we're like, no, blow through. And so we blow through, we pull into, we pull into Sadabad, we get out and the panders are just peppered like our Guys get out and you know, the salters, I remember that the, the troop chief just looks at me and he was just like, he just nodded. He's like, yeah man. Like he was one of the guys who was like, no, I'm never getting a pander. Like I'm not getting in with you guys with sweat guys. He was like, your boys are good, man. And I was, I was, I walked in and every single assaulter was like, dude, that I hated those things beforehand. I'm a change man. And I was so proud of my, my troop that night. I was like, these young sweat guys, never been in combat, never been an engagement.

And I, and I walked out and they were just like, holy, sir. I was like, well done man. That's awesome man. I was, to me, I was like, that's, that was NSW at its finest. Like it was really. I was so proud of them that night. They were like, well this, they were kind of freaking out, you know, because you start, you get out and you start looking at the vehicles and you're like that's a lot of rounds. Like those are a lot of guys. And it turns out we got a, the, the FOB guys like two days later they're like, yeah, there was another 25 enemy KIA at the ambush site.

No.

Yeah. I was like, dudes, welcome to the show man. And that was Christmas Eve.

That was Christmas Eve.

It was Christmas Eve, dude.

Wow.

Christmas Eve. You know that we, we did a bunch of, a bunch of. And then ops picked up with the Rangers. After that we did a, we worked with some of the agency guys out of some of the Omegas. Word got around and then the, the one of the ops that kind of turned me sour. My guys were up at Omega 60 sighting in because we had a range up there. They're sighting in the Panders. And I was down at Jbad and I had the Rangers with me and Selector Pop for a guy who was a 23 year old Taliban sub commander and it was outside of Bagram and I was like the. Is this 23, what's it? What is a 23 year old? Anybody like in there anyways? It was an area that had been IED all the time. Army didn't go in anymore. This guy was in there and that's why he didn't, he was like, nobody's going to come get me. And the jock says, hey man, send the Panders and the rangers. And I went, I went to the headshot. I'm like, hey, this is like we got storms. I got no Casts.

I got no. I got no medeback. I got JDAMs through the clouds. I mean, like, we're hanging it out there and this is like IED central. And they're like, so go. And I'm like, what are we doing? Like, I'm okay with this, but what are we doing? Like, this is a Taliban. 23 year old Taliban sub commander. Like, I take one catastrophic IED, I'm killing like 15 rangers and four of my guys. And is this in my mind? I'm like, is the juice worth the squeeze? I got no. I got no medevac, I got no Kazavak, and I got no close air support. And they were just like, go. All right, so I scramble a C130. I get the Rangers, we load up in J bad. My guys are in Omega 60. They hightail it down to Bagram. We meet In a hangar C130 pulls up, up. We literally. I have chalk and we plan the. I pull up my computer and we, we look at the target. I got the Ranger gfc. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna drop you off here. We're gonna go here. This is what we got. We roll in there.

And the Rangers crushed it. It was up a super channelized terrain. The RWS systems were worthless. The walls were taller than, than the guns. So we just literally drove in. And I remember this whole time just had this sickness feeling. I'm just like, dude, this is it. I've rolled the dice so many times in my life. Like, this is. This is it. Fortunately, nothing happened. We grabbed the dude and we get out of there, we get back to Bagram and I'm just like, oh, good. I lay down about 20 minutes. I've been up for 48 hours scrambling this thing. I go into the jock, McRaven's there, and I'm with the young Ranger captain. And McRaven's like, gentlemen, great political victory tonight. And I was like, that's an interesting thing to say. I was like, whoa, what's with the guy? Listen, he's really. His father's really close to Karzai. We let him go, but we got a lot of. We got a lot of political clout from this one, a lot of leverage. And I think I'm not very good at hiding my emotions. I was like, what the. You know what I mean? It was like that moment.

I'm like. And in my mind, yes, I'm a soldier. I follow orders. I do what I'm supposed to do. But in my mind, I was like, not one of those guys lives is worth. These guys are highly trained. Every single Ranger, every single swick guy, every single seal, like, they're treasures. I'm like, what are we doing? You know what I mean? I just had this moment where I was like. And that was part of my like, okay, I don't know. I don't know if this is where I want to be anymore. I just didn't know how to rationalize it. We come back from that, and the last stop I go on, Omega 60 calls me, and there's a team guy up there. Hey, can you guys come up, do mobility for us? We got some. Some of the Mohawks or something, the indigenous force. We were going to go out with some of the agency guys and hit this target. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I go up there, and the SEAL that was there, super squared away. Okay, really good. Senior enlisted young guy. His name's Sean. And that night we go out and Getting a little.

A little engagement, but nothing crazy. Um, but we had the agency guy in our vehicle with us. And we weren't driving the Panthers this time. We were driving. We went out in the Hiluxes. We. I just took my guys up there to do the mobility portion for them. It was kind of cool that they were. They thought that highly of us that they would say, hey, come out and do this. Anyways, we go. We come back from that op, and I'm sitting with Sean, and we're kind of like, laughing. And he hands me the AAR from the. From the op. And I'm like, dude, who is this guy? He's like, fucking Rambo. And he's like, that was a dude that was hiding in the back of our. In the back seat of the Hilux who never got out. And I was like, what? I just. I just start laughing. I'm just like, whatever. Everybody was writing themselves up for all. You know, it was like, how do you get promoted? And it was in every aspect. It was like numbers and. And it just. It just. It just felt like. It just felt wrong. You know what I mean?

It just felt wrong. And Sean and I laugh about it. And I was like, dude, where are you from? I didn't really know him in the squadron. We'd known each other. And he's like, I'm from this little town of Pennsylvania. I'm like, me, too. He's like, oh, yeah? Where? And I'm like, I'm from Erie. He's like, I'm from Warren. I'm like, dude, we're like, 20 minutes apart. And we start chatting. And he goes, yeah, man, I used to ski at peak and peak. And I'm like, you used to ski a pee? I used to ski at pee and pee, like. And he. That's nuts, man. We probably rode the same lift together, riding our, you know, Carhartt warriors, ripping around the mountains. And I used to fish in Lake Erie. Trout and perch and. Or perch and walleye. I'm like, that's crazy. That's the last stop I go on. I fly home after that. And that's when the wheels. I mean, my. The TBI stuff starts. Bad. Like, bad. I'm driving to work without even. I was. On a Sunday. I was sitting in the parking lot at the command, and I'm like, I don't know why I'm here.

And my wife calls me. She's like, you left an hour ago. You were supposed to get diapers. And I'm like, oh, well, it. And I was getting. I was getting vertigo all the time. And then I'm like, well, maybe sea legs. Because, you know, we come back from rotation, you're immediately back out on the boats. I'm like, oh, maybe I just gotten sea legs. And then these headaches started, like, unbelievable headaches, splitting. And I'm just like, okay, I'm Start taking Excedrin by, like, the handful. And my back. I'm going into Portsmouth to get pain injections at the pain clinic where they inject it into your spine. And my back pain, my neck pain, my head. I'm just kind of like, holy, this is. And my behavior goes to. I'm missing meetings. I'm like, I'm a mess. And. And I'm. I'm feeling like. I'm feeling like something's. Something's coming apart, but I'm like, it. You just keep going. You just keep. You just keep going. And then my friend Walt knocks on my door. He's like, hey, man, this Friday, because you're gonna start green team on Monday, and we're just going to get you through assaults, and then you're going to go take a troop up on the second deck.

And I was like, Monday. Like, dude, I'm. I'm. I'm still in my troop commander job here. I'm like, I can't just leave and go do that. Like, you're fine. Already got covered with your boss. Everything's going to be good. Just need you to get through assaults. And I'm just, like, physically, I'm shot. I don't know what's going on. And I'm kind of losing my mind. I couldn't even read emails. I just delete all my emails.

That's what I do.

Exactly. So I'm just like, the shit's going south. But okay, you know what? I'm on the ride. What are we doing next? Let's go to green team. And so I show up, and I know all the guys. I've been at the command for four years. You know, everyone knows me. I've been there, buddies with everyone. They're like, what are you doing? I'm like, like, I gotta go through assaults again. And. But I'm getting. My gut is like, this is bad. Like, I don't want to go to the second deck, not because I don't want to operate, but because, like, I'm gonna get somebody killed. Like, I can't even, like, control myself right now. We start doing get through the first week of assaults every night. I'm going back, and I'm doing troop commander work the best that I can, which my troop chief was just like, dude, what the is going on with you? And I'm like, ah, it's fine. And we head out to. I think it was, like, third week of assaults, and I couldn't remember informant entries. I couldn't remember which way I was going to go. And so I would sit there, and I was wearing Solomons, and I would count the things, and I'm like, left, right?

I'm going left. So I would put a rock in my left shoe. I'm like, that's. That's how up my brain was. And my. My cousin was running assaults, and everybody thought he like, all right, Peach is going to breeze through here. And my cousin's like, what the. Dude, you're a mess. And I'm like, something that was very easy before I was really up that week. 3. They pulled me aside, and they're just like, my friend Walt's like, hey, man, I you over. I. You. This is bad timing for you. And I'm like, yeah. And they dropped me, and I'm like. And we got in the car, and on the ride home, I turned to Walt and I told him everything. I was like, dude, I'm happy right now because, like, something's up with me. Like, I. I don't know what it is. I've never been here before, but, like, this is a good thing. And they're like, well, just. Just finish out your time. Heal up. We'll reload you next year. And I went back, and I wrote my letter of resignation oh. And I walked out, put it in, and Heather left. She moved back up to Pennsylvania, and we'd bought a house up in Erie.

And I was just kind of riding out my time, and I moved in with Morgan Lutrell, and I was just kind of limping through, like, hey, how long am I going to be here? Time to get out. You know, they put me in an ops job. I was just like, ah, all right. Pete's off the. Off the train. And. But I was getting worse. And, man, I started drinking, like, just to go to sleep at night. I was drinking glassfuls of Jack Daniels because my. My back pain was just unbelievable. My arm. My left arm was numb. I couldn't even play. Couldn't play any music, Couldn't think. I was driving plate. I mean, Morgan finally says to me he had been in a helicopter crash, and he had gone through Nico National Intrepid center of Excellence. He was the first SEAL to go there and living with. And he's watching me in the kitchen. He goes, dude, you got tbi. You need to go to Niko. And I was like, what the is tbi and what's Nico? He's like, I've been watching you for three weeks, and you. You, like, you. You can't sleep for your headaches.

You. You, like, you quite literally can't hold a conversation. I'll start a conversation with you, and then you'll walk away. Like, you walk out of the house four times to. You come back in to get your badge, your wallet, your keys. Like, you'll forget where we're driving when we're driving in the car. He's like, dude, you're up. And I was like, yeah, but I went to see this psych at. At the command. And he goes, well, you're just like everybody else, man. Like. And I'm like, thinking to myself, I'm like, everybody else. Yeah. I'm like, okay, all right. Well, it. And I remember sitting, thinking to myself, like, okay, I had a great career. You know, I'm lucky. I'm lucky to be alive. We lost a lot of. You know, lost our friends and all this stuff. And, like, maybe it's just time to, you know, if this is the end of the road and this was the price that I paid, then, okay, I'm losing my mind and getting ready to get out.

And.

Just when this happened, Morgan gives me a brochure for Nico. And I walk into medical, and Matt Hickey's the commander, who's a naval academy grad and went to med school. Became a doctor, and he was the DMO at the command. And I walked in, I sat on his desk, and I was like, I need help. And he's like, he was checking in. He just dropped everything, and he sat me down. He goes, what is this? And I was like, I don't know what's going on. And I just, like, dumped it on him. Matt calls the detailer, pulls my resignation. He's like, he's not getting out yet. I can't let him out. He's not medically. He's. He's. He's up. He calls up to Niko, I got a guy need to get him in. What are you. What do you do there? Talks to Jim Kelly, the physician in charge. And this July, they're like, beginning of July, they're like, you got a slot to go to Nico on August 1st. And I'm like, I'll try anything. And so did your wife notice on any of this stuff? Oh, yeah, she was just like, it. She was confiding, I think, in her mom a lot, but she's like, she would watch me do shit.

And I was like. She's like, you weren't in there. Like, you were there, but you weren't in there. Like, it wasn't like, you didn't come home and pick up a guitar and play. You were, like, absent from the kids. She had moved to Erie, and Tanner was born. My third son. And, like, I wasn't holding him. And she's like, I held. I'm like, I'm. I love my kids. Like, every second I get to be with my children, I'm, like, picking them up, carrying them around, hugging them, like. And I didn't hold Tanner. And she was like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. And then I started, and my drinking was just going through the roof, and I'm going to this Nico place. I don't know what it is. I'm going to try this. So I check into Nico first day, and they sent me in this room. Walk me in the room. There's 12 doctors, there's nutritionists, everybody in the room, and they have my medical record out, and they go, tell us your story. They're like. And Dr. Jim Kelly was sitting across from me. He goes, listen, part of the problem here is it's.

It's disconnected. What we're going to do is we're going to. We're as a team, we're going to analyze your story so you only have to tell it one time. And walk us through this. And so I sat in there for hours and talked them through the story, and then they start scheduling appointments for me. And over the next month, I got 93 doctor's appointments, and I got five MRIs in my brain. I got. And Jim would sit me down and say, let's talk about what TBI is and what was happening. Explain to me how my brain worked. And so I started building a brief. I'm like. Because the last words from the psych were, well, you're just like everybody else. I'm like, well, if everybody else is going through this and there's an answer, then they need to know about it. And Jim was a great teacher, and so he's like, hey, listen, your brain. It's. Think of your brain like a city. Got, you know, gray matter are the. The buildings, white matter, the streets and the sidewalk. That's. Information travels on that.

And.

When you pass energy through the cortex of your brain, it's like an earthquake. So if you were to fly over Washington or Washington, D.C. on September 11, you look down and you saw the Pentagon. That's a sports concussion. You know, that's Troy Aikman. You can rewind it, see where you got hit. You can say, hey, this is. This part of the brain. This is what the cognitive deficits might be from this type of injury. He goes, but with you guys later on, I was in Washington, D.C. on Aug. 23 in Jonas's funeral when the earthquake hit and the building shaking. There was plaster falling off the ceilings. Well, after the earthquake, you'd fly over Washington, D.C. and you think everything was all right, but the damage was actually on an order of magnitude greater because it was passing energy through the region. There was cracks in the sidewalks. There was cracks in the Washington Monument. There was infrastructure damage that you couldn't tell. He's like, that's the same thing for blasts. That's passing through the energy cortex, your brain. It's damaging all those streets and sidewalks. And now information has got to take detours. That's why you got a sweet tooth.

That's why you're. You're drinking massive amounts of caffeine. That's You. Everything is difficult for you. You've lost words, your. Your headaches. He goes, and what we found is that. So when your brain is injured, the white matter is injured in your brain. Your brain releases stem cells to repair the white matter, but stem cells are killed off by cortisol and adrenaline. And he goes, the major producers of cortisol adrenaline are lack of level 3 sleep, chronic pain and chronic. I'm sorry, chronic pain, chronic lack of level three and four sleep. And I've said this like 10,000 times. Chronic pain, lack of level three before sleep, and memory loss. Memory loss, yeah. It'll come back to me in a second. Anyways, you guys live in this perfect storm where you flip flop your circadian rhythms. Oh, stress. High levels of stress. So high level stress, Lack of level three and four sleep, and chronic pain. He goes, all you guys are injured. You got some kind of neck back. He's like, your neck, your back. Your body's producing high levels of cortisol. You, you up your sleep because you're up all night, and then you sleep all day.

And I wasn't sleeping at all. The only way I would fall asleep is if I chugged a bunch of, of alcohol or took some Ambien and you pass out. He goes, and then you're in, you know, chronic stress. Like you've been deploying. You're in a high stress job. And so what's happened is these cognitive deficits just start to add up and you just start to get to worse and worse and worse and worse. So what we need to do is break the pain cycle, break the stress cycle and get you sleeping again. And that protocol there is to analyze how every part of your body, like, we got orthopedic pain, let's address the orthopedic pain. You got headache pain, let's address the, the headaches, but without. Let's look what we can do. They used acupuncture. I went in for acupuncture and Dr. Kaufman did this acupuncture in my head. And I remember it was like somebody hit a button and my headache went away and I left. I walked out of his office and I went to the. I was staying in on Bethesda at the time, at the Niko on the, on the National Naval Medical center.

They put you up there. And I fell asleep. I slept for 18 hours. The first time I slept like that, I came in, I'm like, they're like, welcome back. And I started to. Started to piece myself back together. And during that time I was there, extortion happened. So the first weekend I'm at, I'm at Nico. I get there on August 1st. I go through this the first week where they're explaining stuff. I start my testing and then I drive home to see my kids. I crawl into bed, my phone lights up. Two troop is gone. I'm like, what? And then the names start. And I was like, oh, my God. And a sinking feeling, because I'm like. Like, I'm thinking of the guys in Gold, and I'm like, which? Who's in 2 troop? And then I see JT's name, JT Tomlinson, and I'm just like. And then I see Jonas name, and, you know. You know, everybody on that list. It's not like. It's not like, hey, names are flashing a TV screen. It's like you have faces popping in your head. And I'm like, they're all gone. I went and I crawled in bed with Walker.

I was like, dude, he was a baby. And I crawled. I just held my kids, and I'm like, holy. And then it came in waves. It was just like. That month was just like, I'm in Nico. I'm starting to come back together. I'm healing. But I'm like, you know, the command just got thrown into this mass casualty drill. We never lost that many people at one time. Like, how many. How many kids woke up that morning without a dad? It was like, you know, we're sending out teams to families, like, over and over and over again. I mean, it just was like a shockwave that went through that place. And thank God I was at Nico. Thank God I had the support that I did. And, you know, JT's was the one that hit me the most because he was. We were so close. He was in my wedding. When we came back, we had a formal wedding at home, and he flew up. Beau was the best man, and JT was in the wedding, and. And Bo calls me and says, hey, man, we're gonna bury JT in Rockford at home. I said, okay, I want you to sing a song.

I was like, okay. I didn't even think about it. I'm like, fuck, come home. And I'm like, that day, I woke up in the morning. What was messed up was before Beau called me and all that stuff happened. I woke up that morning, I had, like, a little MP3 player, and I went for a walk in my neighborhood, same neighborhood I walk in right now. And this song came on called Hell for the Company. And it was written by a guy I went to the Naval Academy with, Dave Padakian. And he and I used to play guitar together and jam. And I was like, what? And. And it just kept playing in my head. And when Beau called me and said, hey, I need you to play JT's, I was like, kind of my worst nightmare, because I knew the whole command would be there. We flew out to we flew out there and I got some. I got a couple days. A couple extra days off from Nico, and thank God Dr. Kaufman was there. He's a psychiatrist. And I flew out there and it was like, right out of a movie. It's like 1950s school at a, you know, a town in rural town in Iowa with one stoplight.

And we walk in, it's like the old gymnasium with. Then there's a stage inside the gymnasium, right? And that's, you know, all the old bricks and the seating on each side. And the kid. Is the kid running the soundboard. And the guys started arriving, and it was the wheel. Jtn, what was. What we thought was. I mean, when. When the. When the RPG hit the helicopter, it just incinerated. And I mean, it was like, lights out. Lights out. And it. I. I just. You know, how many times you've flown in a helicopter? How many times have you. Like. Like, coming in, on landing, you're just like. Unfortunately, I think, you know, Pete Van Hoosier at the memorial said it best. Yeah, that's another Pete Van Hoosier, CEO of the Command. At the time, he was the CEO of Group 2. When Red Wings went down and they brought him back. He was in retirement. They brought him out of retirement to be the CEO of the Command. And then extortion happens.

Damn.

You tell me that's not a calling. He knew. He knew what to say to the families and how to handle it. And, you know, he said, and I always. I always think about this. He said, you know, at the end of the speech, he was giving the memorial. At the end of the speech, he says. He starts laughing. He said, you know, I gotta laugh. He goes, you know, they were all jocked up. They're getting ready to land. The Rangers are called troops, and they're. They called for the qrf. They're getting ready to get after it. He's like, the RPG hits, and all of a sudden they're sitting on the other side. They all look at each other and they go. And he said in this way. And he's like. And then they all walked into heaven. I'm paraphrasing, but you know how many times you've replayed, like, what were the. What was the last second like? And I kept thinking about that. And they wheeled JT in and all the Command walks in. They sit down. JT's dog, Hawkeye, his chocolate lab, walks up to the casket and lays down in front of the casket.

The Command is there. All three of JT's girlfriends were there. They all met at the same time. We're all like, that's kind of funny, you know, Team guys being team guy humor. And I'm in my blues. And Beau gives this absolutely amazing speech. And then they're like, and now you're gonna sing. And I remember looking down and playing in front of team guys or singing in front of team guys is like being a wounded zebra walking in front of a pride of lions. They're just like you. They just. There's just. You can tell, like, don't. What are you gonna do? What the. And I sang hell for the company and closed my eyes. I sang it. And my Heather had met me there, and she had brought Tanner with me with her because he was newborn, he was still breastfeeding. And, you know, that memorial. I wasn't drinking. I stayed sober. The minute I went to Mako, I put the booze down and I was sober for that whole thing. And it was. And I experienced all of the extortion stuff sober. And it was. It was different. And it hurt more. Like, I wanted to.

I wanted to grab a beer and. And I wanted to do a shot, and I was just sober and clean and clear, and I could just. I felt it all. And we. We packed up and I went back to Nico, and I get a call from the chaplain, and he says, hey, we're having the Arlington ceremony. I think it was on the 17th. And the plan is they're going to do the change of command. They're going to say a few words. It's in the All Face Chapel, and you're going to sing. And I was like, no way. And he's like, listen, here's the deal. We can't have a denominational service because we have too many guys. We're going to do the quick change of command. Pete Manhoos is going to give the remarks. Wyman Howard is going to take over, and he's going to give his remarks. And I was in Rockford, and I want you to sing. And that's what it's going to be. And I was like, oh, I didn't want to go. I didn't want to be at the command. I want to be anywhere near. I was like, I'm a. I'm a failure.

I'm a quitter. Dropped out. I got a shit can. You know what I mean? I was like, I showed up and I got up there and I closed my eyes and I sang and we buried them. And that. That was. You know, I can talk about that all day, but for me. I shut the door on it. On it all.

That was it.

That was it for me. That was it for me.

It's a tough ride, man.

It was a tough ride. But then, you know, went out to the West Coast. I built this brief, and I'm like, I'm gonna. We got a TBI problem. You know what? I'm gonna help. The guys started getting phone calls, two in the morning. I went back. I gave the first. The first blast effect brief to red. I walked in, I said, hey, can I have 30 minutes of your time? They're like, where'd you go, dude? Did you go to the nuthouse? Like, what the hell happened? And I said, so I gave the first TBI brief. I explained what traumatic brain injury was. I explained the symptoms. I explained the comorbidities between TBI and ptsd. You know, I talked about sleep walk through all of it. Every guy in the room was like, dude, I got all of that. And I remember Commander Williams was like. And the doc at the time was like, whoa. Like, there's a way out of this. Like. And we started stacking guys up, going to Niko. Niko became the revolving door for the command. Everybody was going up there, and I was fielding calls at 2 in the morning from guys hurting, and I just found this purpose, and I'm like, well, you know what?

I came here to save.

That's what you said at the beginning.

Then I. I'm. This is what I'm gonna do. I'm save these guys. I went to the west coast, started giving the brief, and I hit this brick wall. Ah, we don't have tbi. That's a debris problem. We don't want to have it. You've ever had a concussion? Well, yeah, I've had hundreds of concussions. I'm like, but I don't have tbi. My boss at the time was like, you made it all up. You're just lazy. And I got this. This. I hit this wall at WARCOM and Group One, and it was like, we don't have this problem. Meanwhile, I'm fielding phone calls of guys being like, how do I get help, Hope? And. And I had gotten a lot better. Like, the NICO just. It was like I just changed directions out of Nico, and it was like, within two months of being out of there, I mean, I wasn't good, but I was what I thought was, like, night and day veteran. And we started. My wife and I started speaking to the. The teams that would come back, and every time we would give ourselves speeches at the, the family host deployment retreats, which we never got.

We would give the speech and I would start talking about, like, you know, bad walking out and with my. For getting my badge and keys every other. Every time and drinking and. And my wife would. Then she would get up there and just basically throw me under the bus. And the wives were just elbow the husbands. And I was like, okay, like, you know, We've been through 15 years of sustained combat. Like, like the Navy doesn't. I came to this conclusion, like, the Navy doesn't love you. Navy does not give two about you. Naval special warfare doesn't love you. They don't give two fucks about you. And that's okay. They don't. They shouldn't. They've got a mission. They've got a job. They didn't want to acknowledge the problem. I don't think they have yet because it was like, if we acknowledge the problem, then we got to do something about it. If we do something about it, we got to start changing our modus operandi. We got to start changing how breaching protocols. You know, you eat enough, you know, you stand three feet from a door and clack off explosives. You're passing all kinds of energy through the cortex, your brain.

Like, we just, we got to come up with a way, you know. And I was like, so the problem isn't now going to be solved by the commands inside of nsw. It's going to be solved by the support mechanisms around nsw. And there was a couple other guys from the command with me out there, and I put in my letter of resignation and our parting trip. Five of us went up to Alaska and we climbed and summited Denali and then skied down. And I took my, my bracelet, my memorial bracelet from. I went up to the top of the nollie and I tied it to the. Tied it to the, the plaque that's on top that marks the summit. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done grieving. That was about a year after that. Like, I've, I've grieved. I'm gonna. Now I'm gonna go try to fix this the best way I can on the outside. So I left, I came home, got out of the Navy with no plan, no job. Like, they were just like, see ya. And some guys didn't even know I got out. They're like, wait, you got out? What's going on?

I'm like, at one point during that time, called the detailer and they said, well, because you fell off your career path by essentially Taking time off, going to Nico because it wasn't acknowledged. Nobody knew what it was. You're gonna have to take another troop with Seal Team 7 back to Afghanistan for a year if you want to stay in the path in the pipeline. And I came home and I looked at Heather. She's like, no, no, like these three, that's your priority. And I was like, okay. I got out and I just kind of walked out the door. Stayed in the reserves for a couple years, but when they looked at my background, like, I was a great reservist. I can be plugged into any part of NSW that you need. They called me up, they're like, we're going to activate you. I was like, I just got out. I was going to every. I was trying to speak at non profits. I was trying to raise money. I did a campaign with Napa. We raised. I don't know how many millions of dollars we raised, but we opened up 10 more Niko satellite centers.

I started that first year, I worked as a ski instructor at Snowmass and I started skiing the big mountain competitions because I was like, my love of skiing. I felt at home there. Like, maybe I'll prove. In my mind, I was like, if I go do this, then I can prove that I'm healed. And that was when I was approached by the Men's Journal guy and said, hey, I want to do an article. And I was like, well, Jim Kelly had left Nico and he wanted to open up another facility in Aurora, Colorado for the veterans. And I was like, perfect. You know, Nico is for active duty. We need something on the outside for veterans, and this can be for veterans, same protocols. So Jim and I start working on it. I was like, well, I'll do this article about how, like, your protocols healed me. And, you know, that'll bring some attention and maybe that'll help with donors. And Guy came out, we talked about the article, doing the article. He came to an event. I did horribly at the event, and I was new to any of that media. And. And at one point he goes.

He said to me, what we're gonna. He's like, hey, the next article I'm doing is about that Captain Phillips mission. Talk to these FBI guys who said, you know, the SEAL story is. Is bs, and I'm gonna do the article about the FBI guys. And I was like, don't do that. That's. That's not true. And he's like, well, how do you know? I was like, well, I was there and I was. I was there when the FBI showed up after, after the shots were taken, you know, came across the hey, pirates are dead. We were like, woohoo. Like 24 hours later, the FBI's like, we're here. We're like, for what? And so I told that to the. The, the author. And when the article comes out, it was about how I led the Captain Phillips mission. And they timed it with the opening of the movie. And it wasn't about healing from tbi. And I was like. And then the hate poured in from what were you thinking? And I was like, that's not what I wanted it. I intended it to be about traumatic brain injury and how I was getting better and, and it was supposed to be to raise money and nobody cared.

Damn, man.

Then we found Bernie Marcus, founder of Home Depot, and he signed on and he gave us $38 million. We opened the doors to the Marcus Brain Institute, Aurora, Colorado. And I got to give the opening speech and. And Jim Kelly took the helm there and we started healing veterans. It was awesome.

Congratulations. Yeah, that is awesome.

It was pretty cool, man. I was like, oh, that was, that was, that made it. And then I took a massive digger skiing. I got another massive concussion. And I called Jim and he's like, okay, this like, skiing thing, this big mountain, you just. Can you just not hit your head again because you're going to be licking the windows. And I was like, okay. And you know, I was kind of tumbling through different jobs after that. And I worked at a place called Rally, gave a speech. It was a software healthcare company started by his young. The original idea was to fix. I pitched him. My thing called life optimization was how to use wearable devices to manage, you know, heart rate variability and cortisol levels and be able to do pretty predictive modeling on who was going to get in the red for TBI symptoms. And he's like, we're doing that here. And then like, tech works, you know, you get in for one reason and then money arrives and you hang a right hand turn. And that company, you know, granted very well. Rally turned into a fantastic success. He was like 33 when he sold it.

We talking about grand?

Who ver standed?

I know Grant.

Yeah, I was, I went to work at Rally when it was Audax, and oh yeah, I went and gave. I. I gave it the blast effect speech and like a leadership speech. And then I handed Grant my business plan for wearable devices. And you know, how do we do predictive modeling? And Grant said, we're going to do that here at Rally. Come work with us, I went to work at Rally and then the first tranche of buyouts came with United coming in and, you know, we went from startup to being worth 500 million overnight. And then Rally. You know, it was an engagement tool, but it was, it was a great education on, you know, tech startups and how that all. When I was flying back and forth from Colorado and just, I mean, I was burning the candle at both ends again. I gotta make a living. I gotta figure this out with my kids. And you know, Grant being a wonderful dude, super supportive through all of it. And when it took the right hand turn and became we weren't going to go do the wearable devices integration to fix tbi, it was an engagement tool for United.

I was like, I'm out and I'm falling apart. And just then Cactus called me out of the blue. Hey man, I got this song passed to me and we're doing this documentary. You want to come record an album? And I was like, I got nothing else going on. I flew to Nashville and like, you heard the first story. That's how I met Cactus and wine. And then the Patriot tour came up and, you know, Marcus was going to take a bunch of vets out to talk about stuff and said, hey, I'd like somebody to come play music. So I went out and I did 14 stops on the Patriot tour with.

Them, recorded that feel to get into music.

Yeah, the music part was a. That was nice because, you know, Jim Kelly was like, music is the best thing you can do for your brain. And I was like, oh, maybe this is where I need to. Maybe it's where I need to go, you know, and, and I, you know that the first EP we cut was really the heart and soul of what we were going to do. And then I started to see the music business and I recorded the second album and I realized like. And you had John Rich on here talking about the music business and, and the reality was I really sat down. I was getting a record deal, talking to different A R guys and this is going to happen. And they said, here's the deal, man. There's 273 radio stations around the country, country radio, 75 million daily listeners. The way it works is we sign you, it's going to be a 360 deal. I got a bunch of great songs. You're going to cut them. In the meantime, once we cut the record, you're going to Fly to all 273 radio stations and you're going to meet everybody and show your face.

And we take one of your singles, we put our radio team behind it, put a bunch of money behind it and essentially you buy a spot on the Billboard. And then that summer we're going to put you out on a tour and you're going to be opening up. You'll pay to open for a big name to get in front of their, their people. And then we're going to rinse and repeat for five years. And at the end of the five years you're going to be poor, but you're going to be famous. And you know we can, you can move on from there with another deal or however, whatever direction you want to go. And I sat there and I was like, but I want to write my own songs. Guy goes, doesn't work like that. You can do that later. So I'm like, so you're just going to use my story to sell your. And then I'm going to play your stuff and I'm going to have to play your stuff for the rest of my life whether I like it or not. And I'm going to be on the road 300 days a year and basically make nothing.

The 360 deal, they take a piece of everything, your merch, everything. Like, well, it's only for five years. And I was like that's a horrible idea. Cactus was like, like that's a horrible idea. And I was imploding. Like I was playing shows, I was traveling.

You did it?

No, I didn't take the deal. I started to try to. I kind of took the route that Tim Montana took and that was to go out and get sponsors and you know you get sponsored by a outdoor company and you know you put out a bunch of, you do their social media for them and they're going to pay you a lump sum and you know you try to push, pay for your own record, your own record teams. And so I did that. Shortly I had one single called Walking a Wire that was hired a record team for like 10 grand and it was a co write with Dirk Spentley and Dave Lee Murphy and it got the 39 on the music Row charts. They hated the song. I cut another song for get to 39. Yeah, music row charts. It wasn't on the Billboard chart, it was on the, the JV chart. But I was able to get to 39. And I was like, that's kind of cool. And American Sniper was coming out and I've been on the Patriot tour with Taya Kyle and she said, would you cut this hearts I leave behind song?

And we'll put it in the movie. And I said, yeah. I went to y. I'm like, you want to do this with me? It's going to go in this American Sniper movie. And so why cactus? And I went in, and we cut hearts I leave behind. And right before the movie came out, they're like, yeah. So we. It was supposed to be in the memorial page for Chris, like, where they show all the pictures at the end of the movie. And they were like, it's going to be silence. I was like, what? I just invested a bunch of this money in recording all this stuff, and I was kind of like, okay, so now I got this song. What do I do with it? And I'm like, I know Glenn Beck. I call up Glenn Beck, and I'm like, hey, Glenn, I got this song recorded for this movie, and it's not going to be in the movie, but what I'll do is whatever we make off it, I'll donate to Taya's charity above what it cost me to cut it just so I can get out of this thing. And Glenn's like, let's do it.

So he put me on talk radio, and Glenn told the story and said, hey, the money's going to be donated. And it went to number one in iTunes.

You went to number number one on.

Itunes for a couple days, and it's the last number one that Winona's had was hearts I leave behind. And I. I cut the check to tie to cut the check to Taya. I looked around, and this is like. I mean, this is when. This is when the PTSD hit me like. Like a. A freight train. I thought it was like, tbis everything good. PTSD is not gonna. Not gonna happen to me. I'm good. I'm free and clear of it. And the stress of that whole time frame throughout your entire.

Everything you've been through.

Yep.

From 10 months old until. What age are you here?

30? Some 48 now. So I was probably 39.

So damn near 40 years.

Yeah.

All this that we just discussed, and you didn't think PTSD was going to affect you?

Dude, I'm bulletproof. I'm a Sierra land commando, got a massive ego. I'm a country music star. Like, nothing is going to affect me. I can do anything. I can ski big mountains. My life is good. I just made some bad business decisions, lost a bunch of money, sold my house in Colorado, and I moved home, quit music, and I was. I ended up sitting down on our family's property with 357 sitting on the creek. And I was like, I'm doing nobody any good. Like, emotional wreck, couldn't control myself. Like, I'm seeing visions of my father being mean drinking. Like, I mean, I was full blown. I was never physically addicted to alcohol, but I was like, I'd drink from the get up in the morning, and I was just off the rails. I mean, off the rails. Went down there to end it. And then I heard this voice in my head say, no. I shot the tree and went home. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. I need help.

Where were your wife and kids?

At home in Erie. We were all home back in Erie at that point. And I was. I was working from Velocity Outdoors. Russ ronin and Tom McGann called me up. They had worked on another project with me, and they said, hey, listen, you want to come? And they had sponsored some of my music, and they were really great to me. They said, come in and do brand with us. And Russ is. He came from Burton. He was Russ and Tom. Tom was the CEO Burton, CEO of Spider, CEO of K N. And Russ was his brand guy at every piece. And I said, you're a creative guy. Like, come in and help us with brand. And so I had been working with them and. And they were just like, dude, you okay? Like, it's starting to come apart and, like, we can see it. And I was just like, I. I don't know, like, what? I don't know what to do. One of the guys I climbed an ollie with that I was in the squadron with calls me out of the blue and he says, ed calls me. He says, I love you. I said, I love you too, Ed.

He goes, we're going to go to Mexico and do the world's most powerful psychedelic drugs. And I was like, okay, has anybody done this? He's like, yeah, a couple guys. I'm like, who? Anybody I can talk to? And he says, yeah, Sean, the guy I went on the last stop with out in Omega, he just went. I was like, oh. I call Sean up. He's. He's a very stoic dude. Really smart. Got out, got his MBA working, crushing it. You did this Ibogaine. What is it? Like at this point, I'm like, you know, I just had a gun in my mouth. Like, ibogaine would. I'll. What is it? I'll try it. And he goes, well, I don't want to give you too many expectations, but it. He goes, when I was under in the medicine, I was in the delivery room with My parents. He goes, I was. You don't know this, but I was adopted. And I was like, dude, my mom died when I was 10 months old. And I've always asked, like, why'd God leave me alone? He goes, that's your fire question. And I was like, what's a fire question? He goes, you gotta write down your intention for your journey before you go into the medicine.

Throw it in the fire. And I was like, like, okay. Like, I had no idea what I was getting into. She's 20, 19. So I called another friend of mine, Micah Fink, who started Heroes and Horses. And I said, micah, shit's coming off the road. Like, I'm bad. He's like, all right, you're in the. You're gonna. Gonna come to Heroes and horses in June, first class 2019. We're gonna do 40 days in the wilderness riding a horse. And I was like, all right, well, I'm gonna go do this plant medicine right before that. So I'm like, I'll just throw everything at the kitchen sink and see if any of this works. And if it doesn't, then I'll go back to that 357 and, like, not torture my family like, my father tortured me.

What did you say to your family when you got back from the creek? Did they have any idea what was going on?

No.

Did you ever tell them? This is going to be the first time they hear it?

Yeah.

How do you think they're going to react?

I think they're going to be upset.

Do you think they're going to be understanding?

You know, the kids were really young at that point, and I don't think they saw much. I think Lena might have understood that I was upset. I was distant. I was just hiding in the basement, you know, drinking all the time. But I'm not like my dad. I'm not an angry drunk. I'm a fun guy, you know? Like, no one was ever going to tell me to stop drinking because I didn't have a problem with it. Like, I was the life of the party, you know? And so drinking was a way to make me happy. And I think. But I know my wife knew. She was just like, dude, what is this? Like, what do you. Who are you? She knew what I mean. I just wasn't myself. I was just plummeting like our. She's tough as nails, and she. She hits. She. She met me where I was all the time. She wasn't a pushover, you know, she's a. She's a lion when it comes to the kids. And she's like, no, no, you're gonna like. But she saw like, how emotionally I was just like all over the place. And we were fighting left and right and she was holding the fort down.

She's like, we'll figure it out. We gotta, we gotta figure this out. We gotta, we gotta make a living. We gotta do this. We gotta, we gotta keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward. And I was just like, I don't know what, I can't. That's when the nightmare started. I wasn't sleeping at all, sweating through the sheets. She would roll over and be like, whoa. I mean, like soaked. And then I'll just get up, you know. And I was again, I'm a very good drunk. And then I lighten up and I'm happy. And she was just like, hey. And my mother in law noticed, my friends noticed, my buddies from home. So I'm back at home at this point and they're all just like, you know, hey, what's with Pete? Something's going on. You know, and. And a couple of my buddies were starting to sniff around and. And I was just like, I remember what, I remember thinking like, now I know how my dad felt like. Now I know what he was thinking. He was, he was like, I'm no good, I'm gonna hurt him. I just gotta get out of this.

And. And I was like, I'm my father. I remember thinking that, like, I've become my father. I was like the worst. I think that's what really like, set me down to the creek like you're him.

Are you worried about them saying this?

No. No.

Will you watch it with them?

Yeah, I will. Because what came after that is beautiful. And I believe that the cracks in the armor, let the light shine through. And life is going to be shitty for everyone. It's going to take you to places, you know, with my son doing what he's doing. I don't care how tough you are, I don't care what you wear on your chest. I don't what your job is, how much money you make. Like, you're here to. You're a spirit here to learn lessons and you're going to learn those lessons. And the only thing as a parent that you can do is love your kids of everything about them. And for them to see this and see that and know that I was there and to know where I'm at now, that's just as important as any story, war story or anything like that. More important that that happened a million Miles away. And they may see it on a movie or something, what it looked like. But that moment was. I sure. No, I flew out to. I flew out there and dude, you have four team guys show up to do ibogaine together. We're all just like, what?

Okay, you're kind of making jokes. You're back in the. You're back in that, like, mindset. Yeah, I'm with my buddies. Like, this is good. We're gonna go do this stuff. And we had a fire ceremony. Why'd you leave me alone? God. Threw it in the fire and then blast off into ibogaine land. I remember the. I remember laying there. I'm like, when is. When is this gonna hit? And it was like somebody plugged me in, you know, the vibrating was like. And then the memories and it was like a Rolodex. It was like every memory that I didn't even know I had, it was like sitting, watching an iPad. And all the bad ones, they just kept coming back. And. And then the purging and the. And you know, the. The guys and the other guys in the room. I didn't purge as much. There was one dude in the room who I was like, he's giving birth to a demon. Like, he's over there. I remember at one point, like, pulling my headset off. I'm like, get after it, buddy. Like, cheering them on. And that dude, man, that's a. That substance is truly a divine gift.

There is no I. You know, I remember that before, the therapists were like, so the first few hours you're not in control, but then at a certain point, you're going to be able to ask the medicine questions and then it's going to show you things. And I'm just like. I remember just being the smart ass that I am. I was like, well, how should I address the medicine? She's like, just call it medicine. And I was like, like, we're all kind of like laughing at each other. When I got through the first part, I was just like, medicine. Like, can we talk now? Like. And you know that first ibogaine journey, it was like night and day. I woke up from the first part of it and I was. I kept seeing this demon. It was like this tiny little demon. And he came to the foot of my bed. And the first time I called him Bart and I kicked him out and he was. He was cute. It was like tiny little demon had his tail that hung over top and he like swing around and he just walking around and. And then he came back And I called him Doug and I kicked him out.

He came back a third time because three is my number. And I called him dart and I kicked him out. I got up laughing about Dart and I went downstairs and they were like, what's going on? And. And I. I felt really good. Like some guys post ibogaine are like. They feel like. And they don't move, but I get like this burst of energy. And I got up and I'm just like, wow. I go downstairs and I start talking to therapists and I draw Dart and. And then all of a sudden I get this. I'm really tired again. So I go back to sleep and I have this like, movie playing my head. Like a 4K movie. Like, like I'm watching it, but I'm on and then I'm in it. Then I'm watching it and then I'm in it and it's about dark and it is hilarious, but it's the realest thing I've ever seen and been a part of. And like I fall back asleep and it's like 4k movie. I'm watching this guy walk into a bar. He's like. I think he's like a finance guy, good looking dude. He's got a couple girls they're getting ready to.

They're at a bar, they order. They order some, you know, martinis. And he knows everybody at the bar and they're like, hey, let's go to the bathroom and let's do some. You know, I'm watching this guy do drugs with the things and. And I watched the girl goes, here. I got this stuff. It's like mushrooms, but, you know, it's more powerful. Do you want to take it? And the guy's like, I'll try anything. And I was. She's like, what's it called? He's like, I've begun. I was like, don't take that. And the guy in the movie takes it and. And then they, they leave the bar, they go up this apartment and all of a sudden he starts getting sick. And the girl's like, we're out of here. This guy's just, he's purging and. And I'm like, I told you, you know, I'm like having this half, I mean, happen in this. Out of this trip. He's purging and all of a sudden it goes black and then it starts up again. And now I'm in the guy's body and I'm sitting, I'm leaning against the bathtub and the toilet is here. And the demon is sitting in front of me, Dart.

And. And he. He's got Danny DeVito's voice. And he goes, let me back in. I was like, what the. Was like, oh, my God. What the was that? I'm like, what is. This can't be happening. And I get up and I'm like, somehow I know I have to go to work. I gotta work. And this demon's like, come on, man. Let me. Give me back. Let me back in. Let me back in. And I'm like, whatever I took last night, that was way too powerful. Like, go into my room. I get clothes. I don't know how I'm doing any of this. It's like. It's part of this movie. Darts follow me around. We take the elevator downstairs, and I walk out in the street, and now there's, like, hundreds of darts. I see them everywhere. And. And he's, like, seeing guys. And they're all these cute little demons. They're not mean. They're like a hybrid of, like, psych Pokemon, but, like, demonic. And they're in this little realm, and they're just kind of strutting around and talking to each other. And I'm just like, whatever I took last night, like, I shouldn't have taken that.

But this demon is, like, the dirtiest thing. He's just. Every. Every thought that you have that you don't want to come out of your mouth is coming out of his mouth. And he's just running around. It's just spewing it everywhere. Go to. I go to work. I don't know how I get to work. Just playing in this movie. This movie's going along. And, you know, he's just like. Every girl that comes up, he's trying to look up her dress. He's motorboating him. He's just, like, the dirtiest little demon. And he's like, you know. You know, he goes into. He runs into, like, a guy's office, and there's a bunch of booze. And he's just, like, trying to grab the booze, but he can't grab the booze. And I'm having this conversation, like, stop it. Like, fighting with the people. But nobody else sees the demon except for me and Dart. And so finally, someone's like, dude, you need to go home. And so I leave, and Dart follows me, and the sun is setting, and I sit on a park bench, and Dart sits next to me. And I'm just like, what are you. And he's like, who are these?

What is this? He's like, we're demonstration. I go, well, what's the deal? He goes, well, I need. I need to be in you so I can enjoy things. You and I have been together forever. He's like, I love you, team guys. He's like, we've got a great relationship. He's like, you guys are like winning the lottery. Like, what do you mean? He's like, look, you guys play hard, and then you party hard. He's like, so I let you do what you need to do. We do fun stuff together. He's like, and then when it's time for me to get what I want, then I get what I want. I've been with you since the academy, and I was just like, like, what? Well, I'm like, how do you get into people? And he's like, like, see that guy? He's like. He's like, look down. He's like, everyone's got, like, an aura. He's like. He's like, the green don't go for the green. We don't go for the green. He goes, the yellow and the red. He's like, that's the guys. Those are the target guys. Those are the ones that are primed for the picking.

And. And so we're sitting out there, the sun goes down, and I'm having this conversation with the demon about how demons work. Guy comes out of a bar. He's like, see that guy right there? He's like, that's Billy. This little demon is just like this cute little guy running around. He's like, billy always picks the bad ones. He's like, that guy. That guy's gonna go cheat on his wife. And just then, Billy jumps in. The demon jumps into the dude, and the guy grabs a girl and they go off. He's like, here's the problem. That guy, he's a good dude. He's just having a bad day. He's going to wake up in the morning, have a crisis of conscious. He's going to kick Billy out, and Billy's going to be back out on the streets. He didn't pick, like, I picked. He's like, I picked you. And I was, like, sitting there looking at dart. I'm like, starting to make a lot of sense to me. So I go home and I get on the computer. I'm like, I got to find, like, a shaman lady. Because I'm like, whoever does this medicine, maybe I get this medicine stuff out.

And the whole time I'm asking dark questions. I'm just like, well, why don't you pick some, like, rich guy and just have all the fun in the world. He goes, no, no, no, no, no. You don't pick the rich guys. They go to exotic islands and they do all kinds of weird medicine. And then you're stuck on that island, so you find some poor SAP to get a ride home with. I'm just like, whoa. And so I find this shaman. I don't know, I found a job. This is a movie. We go down and I go to this. Go across town, hop in a cab, go up to this apartment. I knock on the door, and this woman opens the door and she goes, can I help you? And she looks down and she goes, and hello to you, too. And I was like, you see him? She's like, come on in. We need to talk. And I was like, okay, I need to get rid of him. And she's like, well, it's not that easy. And I go, well, how do I get rid of him? She goes, you got to let him back in.

He's like, see, I told you the whole time. It's like a comedy show with us, with Dark. Because he's, like, cracking jokes and it's funny. And I'm laughing. In my dream, I'm laughing. And the therapists. I didn't know this. Were sitting up there watching me laugh. And I'm just like, you're having this thing? And I go, okay, well, what happens? She goes, you got to let him back in. See, demons are just toxic egos. And when their body dies, they don't believe there's anything bigger than them. They don't join the universal collective. The only way for him to join the Universal collective and leave is to feel forgiveness. And that's what true love is. So you got to let him in, and you got to forgive him, and then he'll leave you. And I got up from the couch and the movie ends. Now I'm out of my body, and I'm watching this guy walk down the street with his little demon walking with him. And I woke up. That's how my ibogaine trip ended. And the therapist was like. Cynthia goes, what was that? And I was like, we gotta talk. And I just dumped it on Cynthia.

And she was like, that is amazing. And then she starts. She starts helping me, you know, piece things together. The next day, we do. I didn't want to do the Five. I was like, dude, I got Dark to deal with. I don't need whatever this next thing is. I don't want to go down that road. And she's I was the last guy to do it in the house. And I walk in, there's three other dudes sitting there, and they just go, you go upstairs. And I was like, I don't want to. Like, you need to go upstairs. I went upstairs and I did the five and immediately went to the place and let go. That when that moment came to die, I was like, yeah, I let it go. And I went to this place, and the only way I can describe it is infinite awareness. And I felt waves of forgiveness. And I was like, bring it to me. Bring. Bring me all your hate. And I was turning it into love. And it was just wave after wave after wave. I woke up from that, and Ed was right there. And I sat up and I cried.

I cried like I'd never cried before. And the two of us, I just let it go. And I was like, I know. I know what. I know what the other side is, and I know where we're going. I know where they're all at. It's going to be okay. I came back from that. I remember walking in the airport, and I could feel trauma on people. I was like, sitting. I'm sitting in the San Diego airport, and I'm looking at this guy, and I could, like, feel his trauma. And I had so much empathy. I'm an empath by nature, which I found out 10. And I could feel the trauma on everyone around me. And it was like this. I came home, packed up, and then I went to Heroes and Horses, and I spent 40 days riding around on a horse in the mountains, Montana. Integrating that experience and the combination of those two things, I came back from that Heroes and Horses was just. It's not a vacation. It's. You're. You're sleeping in the dirt, you're pushing cattle, you're doing pack trips, you're riding wild mustangs. It's the real deal. I came back from that and the combination of those two things, I was just a different person.

Did you get the answer to your question?

Not yet. I went back a few. A few years passed, and I went back and I did ibogaine again with a couple other team guys, and I never got the answer to the question. And I was like, kind of really. I was really upset about this, and. But I wasn't upset. I. So back up. When I came back from that first time, that's when Walker said to me, I came back a different person. I really was, like, present in a really amazing way. And I was just like, this is good. And my wife was like, who are you? Like, you. You. What did you do? And I was like, it's the great. I don't know, but I'm like, I was. I was in a great place, and my friends said, hey, we're going to play this. We want you to come play this fundraiser show out in for the Grammy Museum. And that week, Walker said to me, hey, dad, I want to be an avenger. And I was like, dude, they're actors. And he goes, well, I'll do that then. And I was like, okay, you want to be an actor? He goes, yeah, can you take me to Hollywood?

And I go, I just so happen that I'm going out to Hollywood to play a show. Come with me. I'm like, let's do this. I took him out, and it was a red carpet event, and I played, and Walker was just running around trying to find producers. He's like 10 years old, pulling on people's, hey, are you a producer? And that time we went and I took him to the Hollywood Walk of Stars, and we walked on the stars, and. And he loves Robert Downey Jr. He loved iron Man. And I was going out there to play the show and write a song with a guy named Tommy Coster, who wrote. He was the songwriter for the album the Real Slim Shady, and he wrote all the piano stuff. Tommy's just amazing guy. Tommy came to my show, and he meets Walker, and he goes, let's write a song with Walker. I was like, all right. So the next day, bring Walker into the studio, and we start writing this tune, and it's called Walk on Stars, and it's all about Walker's journey into Hollywood. And I watched this kid just, like, his imagination explode, and how he was talking about.

It was a Green Lantern. He was talking about Iron man, all Spider Man. He wrote this amazing song, and we sang it, and he's really embarrassed about it, but I love it. And Tommy goes, dude, I want to introduce him to somebody. He's got. He's got it. And so he calls his friend Priscilla. And Priscilla and I meet with Tommy for Walker's first business meeting. And she goes, and Tommy and I are kind of sitting there the next day. And she goes, why do you want to be an actor? And Walker goes, because when I pretend to be other people, I understand how they feel. He's 10. And I. I looked at Tommy, and I was like, that's pretty good, man. Priscilla says to me, and Walker had just been cast in Mary Poppins at the school. Middle school play, and he's like, well, I'm in Mary Poppins, very proud. He's playing Michael. And she goes, if it's okay with your dad, can I help you with your play? And I said, yeah, absolutely. So over the next few months, she would do zoom calls and help him with his part. And she's like, hey, she called me.

She goes, he's. I want to get him into a acting school. There's a acting school in la? And I'm like, these are all. He's like, no, this guy is the real deal. John Diaquino. And at the end of it, they have a showcase. And I was like, okay, let's try it. I'm like, he'll probably go there. And like every kid, they're like, I want to be a football player. And you know, they go and they play their first football game. Like, hey, I want to be a basketball player. You know, he's going to bounce around. And so I take him to the, the thing, the camp in Burbank. All family, went out for a little vacation. And I was in the best place. Mentally. I was just like, I'm Dad, I'm. This is, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm really happy. Just a three day camp and does a. The showcase at the end and their agents and managers there. And the guy who runs a camp, he's like, hey, there's a lot of interest in Walker. Can you stay? And I was like, we got three kids, I can't stay. He's like, I want to introduce you to a manager.

I was like, I know how this works. I just got done with entertainment. I know agents and managers. I understand this whole situation. He's like, no, no. So I'm like, I'll take one meeting. We go back to the hotel and there's a, there's a manager waiting in the hotel lobby with a card. I'd love to talk to you about Walker. And I'm just like, next day, on the way out of town, I met with April and I just kind of read her the riot act. Like, listen, I know the system works. I know what you do not sign anything, but if you bring some work, we'll talk. And we go home. She calls me. A week later, is just as Covid starting up. She goes, we want you to meet an agent in New York. I'm like, dude, there's Covid. I'm not going to New York City. It's like the epicenter. She's like, come on, just go meet these people. They're not going to sign them. They just want to meet him. Like, all right. You know what my dad told me? No. At every turn, I'm like, I'm going to say yes. Walker, let's get in the car.

We drive to New York city, go to the. I forget what floor in the empire state building. We meet with a three. He goes in for 10 minutes. The girl comes out, goes, they want to talk to you. I walk in, they go, we want to sign walker. And I'm like, no, I sign anything. But you bring work. You know, we'll talk about it. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, how are we going to do this? Like, there's New York and la. Got to be for auditions. We live in erie, Pennsylvania. Like, this ain't going to work. But you know what? I'm going to do what my dad never did. I'm going to see this thing through with him. And we go home and COVID lockdown starts, and it's just like the world comes to a screeching halt. Well, the entertainment industry went to self tapes, and so they're like, look, here's the deal. We're gonna. You do the self tape, and then the casting. The casting people look at the self tapes, and then you'll get callbacks so you don't have to go anyplace for an audition. So I was like, all right.

And so I built. I get on Amazon and I get some lights, and I built a studio in my basement, and they start sending self tapes in, and walker and I. I'm like, hey, you're not playing video games. You said you want to be an actor. We got these auditions. Let's go do this. So every night we go in the basement, we'd read the sides, and I don't know anything about acting. You know, I was like, performer, but I wasn't. You know, I was just like, do I believe him or not? And every night, we do it. Send the tape in. Nothing. Nothing. 50 auditions. Nothing. 100 auditions. Now we're at. A couple months into this, we're trying everything. I'm like, walker, watch iron man without the sound on. So you can understand how Robert Downey Jr. Communicates with body language. I'm just trying to come up with ways to like, to do this. And he's getting better. All of a sudden, I get this email, and it says, ryan Reynolds, Sean levy project. And it's a full script, and I'm like, I like Ryan Reynolds. I don't know who Shawn levy is at the time.

So I Google him. I'm like, oh, wow. Stranger things. Like this. He's the real deal. And so I read the full script for the Atom project, and I'm like, dude, this is Walker like this. He gets mini Deadpool. Like, he can recite all of Deadpool. Like, he. He. He loves Ryan Reynolds. So I'm like, walker. And I knew. I knew this context of the script. Now, it wasn't just, like, three lines where you're trying to. What is this for? They don't ever give you any information. They just say, hey, you're your three line. But I had the whole script, and I was just like, dude. So we start rehearsing, and we do, like, a week of rehearsals, and we send the tape in, and it's. It. He gets a call back. I'm just like, dude, your first callback. This is huge, man. And Covid is ending. It's about. It's beginning of September, and I take a business trip out to my guys at Velocity, and Walker has his first call back. And when you do a callback, they sit you on a zoom call, and then you take one of your cameras and you film it as well.

And then when. So they want the film, and they want the zoom call recorded. He gets on the zoom call, and they go through the sides, and you can I still have it on my phone? And the woman goes, have you ever seen any Orion's movies? And he goes, yeah, I've seen Deadpool. And she goes, can you recite any lines from Deadpool? And he goes. He goes, yeah, but can I say the swear words? And she's like, if your parents don't mind. He kind of waits. You see him, like, think for a second. Then he goes, wolverine. First, he rides my coattails. And he goes through the whole opening monolog of five minutes for Deadpool 2 with all inflection. And he's having the time of his life because he's like. I mean, all of the dirty. Like, he's got it down to a te. And you can hear on the zoom call, the casting director laughing. And I was like, I. And I get back, we send the thing off, and I'm just like. I just get this feeling inside me. I'm like, he. He's got this next day, they want to do a chemistry.

They want to call with the director, another call with the director, goes through the lines with them. Sean's like, very, very. Sean's very calm. He's like, all right, Walker, thanks for your time. No indication whether he has it or not. Call back. Now. You're gonna do a chemistry read with Ryan Reynolds on Zoom. I'm just like, dude, this is awesome. Like, you're here. Like, I'm like, we're making progress. You're here with Ryan. So he does it with Ryan. And the last scene is pretty emotional. And I hear. And I'm in the room around the corner, sitting on the stairs, and I can hear Ryan go. And in my mind, I'm like, holy shit. He might actually get this next day, get a phone call. It's the agent. She goes, hey, Sean Levy wants to FaceTime with you guys. Thank you for your. Your time. And I was like, h. Like Friday. So I get on the FaceTime with Sean Levy, and Sean's playing. He's like. He goes, walker, you know, a lot of kids tried out for this, and, you know, they were a lot older than you. They had more experience than you. And I'm thinking to myself, like, dude, if you're going to break the kid's heart, like, break it quick.

Like, I'm going to punch you in the face. And then he stops. He goes, the Walker. You're gonna be in a movie with Ryan Reynolds. Congratulations. And Walker goes, holy. I was like, dude. And it set in. It was just like, oh, my God. Like, this is. This is happening. Like this. He's number two on the card and a $140 million movie for Netflix, and he's starring with Ryan Reynolds, and we start shooting in a month.

Wow.

And I'm like. I'm like, holy. So I'm going with him. I immediately get nervous because I'm like, well, who are these people? Like, they're going to be a big part of our lives. Do I know anybody that knows Sean or Ryan? So I start calling everybody I know. And a friend of mine who's an investment guy in New York, Dan Loeb, called Dan. I go, you know, he runs one of the biggest hedge funds in the world. I'm like, if he's going to know him, anybody's going to know him. Dan's going to know him. So I called Dan. I'm like, hey, do you know Sean Levy or Ryan Reynolds? He goes, I know Sean. He's got a house next to me in the Hamptons. And I go, well, he just cast my son in a movie. He goes, what? So he immediately calls Sean and says, dude, you cast my kid? My buddy's son. He's like, who's your. Who's your buddy? Wait, Walker. And so he gives him my background. And so Dan Calls me back, goes, you're set. And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, sean, I talked to you, Sean, about you, and you're gonna have fun.

So I tell my wife, I'm like, all right, we're in Covid. You know, you have like, you have to go up there and do 14 days of quarantine in an apartment by yourselves before they deliver food. And then, you know, all the COVID protocols in Canada are like 10x anywhere else. And you're going to go up there from basically November to March. And we're going to make this movie. The Walker and I hop on a plane and father, son, and we take off, we go quarantine. And first day of shooting, 14 days in a room with 11 year old who like, like dad on 11, dude. Like, but it was awesome, man. And first day, we're getting ready to walk in, we pull up and we're shooting at a school. And when you see a production and it's full fledged, you know, in its monstrosity, there's hundreds of people and there were all these background kids, it was shooting in the school. Walker's never been on camera before and. And he's like kind of looking around and he's got a trailer and there's makeup people and he's the only. He's number one on the card today because Ryan's not shooting.

And like first day on camera, we hustle him in there and Sean says to me, week four, he goes, normally we stick parents in a corner with a, a tent and, and a, you know, a screen so you can watch it. And he goes, but you got a seat next to me or you're going to wave with the first AD. Josh McLaughlin. Josh is an executive producer as well with his sister Mary. You're going to be with us through the entire thing, so you're going to get a different experience. First day of shooting, I plop down, Sean goes. And now Walker's kind of like looking around. He's all these kids that want to be actors who've probably been in stuff, and he's the star of this movie. And he gets on camera for the first time. I pull up my phone, I take a picture of it, and Sean turns to me, he goes, has he ever been on camera before? And I know I said, one year ago, he was in Mary Poppins. Now we're in. Mind you, we're in like full face shields with masks, COVID protocol. And I see Sean, like, I could just see in his eyes, he's like, holy, I just rolled the dice on the $140 million movie.

Or the kid had never been on camera. Action. And take, take, take. And Walker just settling in. He's taking direction. And Sean took a break. And Sean looks at me, goes, I've been directing kids for a long time. I've never seen that. And then it just started happening. And Walker was improvising lines, and there was these scenes where he was just like, sean, can I try this when I do that? And Sean. Sean has this way about him where his set is extremely well run. It's disciplined, but it's free. And he is just wonderful. He just sets the tone. And Sean's got three daughters. Ryan has three daughters and just had a son. And we. Now they have. We had, like, we're all quarantined together, and we've got. We've got this kid who's just like, like, soaking this in, man. And I'm watching and I'm like, I. I remember thinking to myself, like, he was born to do this. This is exactly where he's supposed to be. And through that entire process, every day he'd shoot with Ryan. And we had, you know, we had teachers on set, so he'd have to go teach. He'd have to go to class and come back to set.

And we. We were all stuck in quarantine, and we were all piled in together. So you had like, the red, the yellow and the green. So you couldn't, like, you know, you can't really associate with other people. So on the weekends, you know, you can only associate with a couple guys. And we became good friends with stunt coordinator Jim Churchman. And Jim was the stunt coordinator For Iron Man 3, all the X Men movies. Like, he's the fly of Superman, man of Steel. Jim's. His. His IMDb page is just a mile long. And he's the nicest human being you've ever met that, like. And he goes, how would Walker feel about doing his own stunts? I'm like, you love it. And so we started stunt training, and Walker started doing all of his own stunts. Jim's a dad as well, and we had this, like, four month, like, time together where every day was like a kid's dream come true. He's shooting with Ryan, then he's shooting with Mark Ruffalo, and he's shooting with his mom is Jen Gardner. And Ryan's wife in the movie is Zoe Zaldana. And he's with all these amazing actors, and they're all like, he's in Every scene he shot more days than Ryan during that.

And we just. It was this most. It was the most magical experience you can. It was like it was out of a movie, making a movie. And Sean and Ryan were the. And this. The storyline about the Atom project is. It's about a man who goes back in time to find his father, who's Mark Ruffalo, who invented time travel, and he finds his 12 year old self and then they go back in time to find their father. And so you have this storyline about what if you could go back and talk to your dad, what would you say? And every day there's scenes in that movie where the whole crew's a mess. But there were these, these moments that there's this. There's a scene and we all got to know each other and we all were. We all had issues with our dads. And there's a scene in the movie at the end where Ryan and Walker are trying to tell their dad, Mark Ruffalo, that he's going to die. And Mark Ruffalo is like, I don't want to know. I can't know the future about time travel and Ryan. A lot of actors have a tough time crying on camera, but you just can't cry on demand.

You know, crying on demand is rough. It's just hard sometimes. You'll. With Walker, on one of the early scenes we were using, like blow menthol into his eyes and so he can tear up. And Mark Ruffalo, we're rolling the cameras and Ryan is there and Walker's there and they start the scene and Sean just lets it roll. And they're like going back and forth, dialog, dialog. And there's this break. We're supposed to be an emotional moment. Mark Ruffalo grabs Ryan. He looks at him, he goes, you're not your dad. You're an amazing father. Wow. And when you watch that movie, those tears in his eyes are. Every single one of us lost it. Like, it was the most. I. I just sat there, like paralyzed. Sean, it was the most amazing moment. And you know, Walker's Walker hit everybody. That scene is just unbelievable. But after all the shit that I'd been through in my life and my stuff with my dad, to watch your kid walk into this movie and have this story be about going back in time to see your father. And the movie was just littered with all these amazing moments.

But that one just sits with me. We finished shooting principal photography and in the movie there's an office where Walker meets Ryan for the first time. And it's their dad's office. And Sean says, I want to show you some of this. So Walker, Sean and I go in and we sit down, and he's got on his laptop, and the lights are off in the room, and Walker's on the other side of Sean, and Sean's next to me, and he plays that scene. And I just cried like I've never cried before, man. I just lost it. And Sean gives me a hug, and he's crying. He's like, come on, Walker. We walk out, and Walker turns to Sean and he goes, man, the only time I've ever seen my dad cry like that was when Eddie Van Halen died. Sean busts out laughing, and it was. It was kind of. That was like, how there's so much more to that movie. But I. You know, we came back from that and where we were shooting that, Walker says to me, like, what do you want to do next? He goes, I'm going to be Percy Jackson.

And I was like, what? And I call the agent and I go, he wants to be Percy Jackson. And I remember he had read all the books when he was a little kid. He was super into it. And he. And. And she goes, well, they're not even casting. And I was like, listen, the kid's manifesting again. Whatever he's doing, like, we need to get, like, the sides for this. So we do the first tape for Percy Jackson, and goes in. Don't hear anything for, like a year. In the meantime, we. He gets cast in another movie called Secret Headquarters, with Owen Wilson, where he stars in that movie. And I get a phone call from Jim Churchman. He says, hey, I'm shooting this movie, Plane with Gerard Butler, and you want to come down and help me? It's a. Essentially, it's a plane crashes on a deserted island, Jello line in the Philippines, and a bunch of mercenaries jump in and rescue the people. And Gerard Butler flies out. And I was like, what do you need, like a military advisor? He's like, yeah. So I was like, whatever. I'm not working. Walker's shooting, and his mom's going with him.

My daughter's. My daughter's cupboard hanging out in Erie with Nana. It's. It's, you know, summer going into September. I was like, I'll do it. I fly down there. And Sean, he's like, dude, you got a costume fitting. I'm like, what? He's like, he had said, like, you're going to be a mercenary. But I didn't actually believe him. He's like, yeah, man. You're in the movie. All right. I could do the costume fitting. And then first day of shooting, we do, like, the rescue scene to, you know, rescue Gerard Butler. And I just had this amazing experience. Like, it was like putting a gun back on, but for real, but not for real. It was like a surreal kind of, you know, you know, thing. We shot for a month or a month at two months. And, you know, you finish up a movie and you just. It just kind of goes away and then you kind of forget about it. And then it pops up again like, oh, it's going to premiere somewhere. And we. We finished up shooting that movie, we come home and get the phone call like, hey, Walker's got some. We had to get on Zoom.

We have an announcement to make. And Rick Riordan, the author of Percy Jackson, been on the York times bestseller for 16 years, or I guess 20 years now. Five book, five part series. Rick Riordan, the author, is on the Zoom. He says, hey, Walker, congratulations, you're Percy Jackson. And the story behind Percy Jackson is that he's the son of Poseidon, and he finds out he's a demigod. And he goes on these adventures, and they're all about Greek mythology. And he has all these powers with water. And in season one, there's an. You can Google it. Percy gets claimed, and there's a scene where he's at Camp Half Blood and his co star pushes him in the water. And he has all these powers he doesn't know about. He doesn't know his dad's Poseidon. And all of his cuts start to heal. He'd just been in. They've just done, like, this capture the flag battle. And all of his cuts start to heal. And he looks around and the camera pans out and Annabeth says, your dad's calling. And a trident floats up above his head. I'm like. I'm like, okay, I'm starting to see these signs.

We. We come on over, sheet shooting season one. And my friend Sean calls me. Earlier that week. I was having a rough week. And for the first time in my life, I said out loud, I go, God, if you're real, you need to show me. Because I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not work. I'm like, in this. You know, it's when you're on set, you go from being Peach Gobell to being Walker's dad. You're just. You're just there and you're there, but you don't have a job. You're not paid, but you have to be there. And you're. You're kind of like, in this. It's just. It's like being in purgatory. And I'm reading everything I can read, and I'm trying to grow and trying to be positive, and, you know, like, the ibogaine glow wears off. And so I'm really struggling a little bit again. And so I say out loud, God, if you're real, you need to show me, because I don't know what I'm doing. Next day, Sean calls me and says, hey, man. The guy from the last op I went on, the guy who told me, when I go to ibogaine, ask why you're.

Why God left you alone. Because I. I got a favor to ask you. And I said, I'll do. What is it? He goes, man, I found my mom, and she still lives in Erie. And I wrote her a letter, and I need you to deliver it to her. I don't want to meet her. I don't want anything to do with her. I just have to have closure in this part of my life, and it's got to be you. And I was like, I'll do it. Send it to me. So him being very squared away, next day, FedEx shows up. Open up the FedEx. I'm not going to use the real last name, but this is Patricia Smith. And I'm like, the guy who befriended me on the ski hill when I was a kid. Paul. His last name's Smith. I'm like, has a lot of Smiths. There's an address on it. I just get this hunch. I text my friend Paul. I'm like, hey, you have a sister named. Is Patty's name Patricia? And does she live at this address? And he writes back, no, but can you come over tomorrow and talk to my son about joining the Coast Guard?

Okay. I'm like, all right. That didn't. That wasn't real. Okay. Next day, I go over to Paul's house, talk to his son about joining the Coast Guard. He's like, I need to talk to you. He's a guy I've known my whole life. He threw me a graduation party from naval Academy. He's like, my brother. He goes, why'd you ask about Patty? I was like, ah, nothing. Just a. Just. It's not a coincidence. It was a mistake. And he gets real emotional, and he goes, is this about her son? And I like, this. I just got hit. I'm like, maybe. He goes, nobody knows this, but when Patty was really Young. She got pregnant, and my father forced her to give the baby up for adoption. And we fought my dad. We didn't want it to happen. I told my dad, I'll be his big brother. I'll take care of him. We're a close family. We don't need that. We all live in this. Live in a kind of compound. We can't give the baby away. Paul says she gave him up for adoption and just wrecked her. And then she got pregnant again from same guy.

And that's Sarah, who, you know, and. And now the wheels are turning. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this is Sean's family. He has a sister he's never met. Full sister. I'm like, this is my big brother. He says to me, you know, when I saw you in the lift line when we were younger, I would look around for anybody who looked like me. Everybody used to call me PJ's little brother. So much so that when he was. He was five years older than me, he gave me his id, and I used to go buy beer with his. With his ID when I was 16 and he's 21. Because I used to look around for anybody that looked like me because I thought maybe it was him. And when I saw you in the lift line that day, I thought you were him. That's why I made you my little brother. And I was like. And he says to me, who is he? Is he a good man? He's the best. He's SEAL Team six operator. The Legend is one of the finest human beings I've ever met. And PJ and I just kind of stared at each other.

So I get in the car and I call Sean. I'm like, hey, man, I know your family. I don't just know your family. Like, they're my family.

Holy shit.

And there was a long pause. He said, a good man. Like, you're a great man. Why they give me a. I explained to him everything. You got a sister, dude. Full sister. You never met. It's actually looking for you. And the next day, I walked around the same neighborhood I live in. Sean and I talked for hours. Just. Just everything. And I said, I want to introduce you to your mom and your sister. So we made that connection, and he and his sister met, and they became, like, best friends. They talk every day. Their families get together. Damn, Pete. And he. I was walking, and then all of a sudden, I had this epiphany that those. Those couple weeks just flew by. Just trying to just, like, absorb, like, what just happened. And his epiphany. And I called him, and I said, hey, man, something you need to know. That's a great family. They're wonderful people. I said, but if you would have been born in that family, you wouldn't have been who you are. You wouldn't have been the man that you became. You wouldn't have been the combat leader that you are. You wouldn't have been the frogman that you are.

You wouldn't have been the dad that you are. You wouldn't have been the husband that you are, the businessman. Like, you just wouldn't have been you. I said, God makes you and the man he needs you to be for the job that he needs you to do. And then when you're ready, he heals you. And when I said that out loud, I had this peace come over me. I sat down and I had this, like. I can't even explain. It was like the five, but in real time. And he goes, what did you get out of all this, man? I was like. I got the answer to the question that I went to. I began to ask in the first place why God left me alone. I did this interview because I wanted my kids to know that God is real. He is the most real thing that you will ever seek, and that this whole experience, whatever this is, is the pursuit of him. And in your darkest moments, pursue him, because it will lead you to where you need to be. I. I don't know. You know, I don't know where it all goes or.

But I wouldn't change anything. Wouldn't change anything, man. And when I say I forgive my dad and I forget beach, forgive them all. Made me into the man that he needed me to be, to do the job that he needed me to do now, you know, every day, every. You know, I talked a lot about Walker. But my other two kids, Lena and Walker's thing happened at a very young age. And it was a. It happened exactly the way it was supposed to happen. And it happened. God put me where he needed me. Every Up. Every mistake, every dumb thing I did, every. Everything I didn't get. When I thought I wanted it, he was moving me. He was like, no, you don't get that right now. You're gonna get this. No, no, no. I need you here. No, I need you here. And I'm blessed on a level that I can't even explain, because I had that experience with Walker that showed me that truth. I had this visceral experience. I so thankful my faith is unshakable. I don't I don't believe. I know I don't. I have something that is the greatest gift that I could, anybody could ever wish for in this experience.

God is real, man. It's so real and he's so beautiful. And I think the awakening that's happening right now is omnis. That's not just me. I think it's happening all over the world. And I think things are going to get crazy in the next decade. I don't know what that looks like as a dad keeps me up at night. But I want everyone to know, no matter how crazy it gets, God is real. But just look for him.

It'S a great message. You're a good dad, Ben. All the lessons you learned from your dad, you're paying it forward.

Trying to parenting. It's a hands down the hardest job on planet earth. At least in Afghanistan you know who the enemy is. Anyway, that's came here to tell that story because I think the world needs it right now. And not just because mine, just because it. I think that I got lucky. I held on, I listened to the voices, I embraced the struggles. Listen, it's not all, you know, rainbows and unicorns. It didn't just go away now. Magically floating into the never, like didn't get any easier after that. And the struggles are real and that, you know, this world that walks, living in and Lena and Tanner are walking into like it's getting crazier by the minute. And it's going to be like all this ride that we're on as a family is just unbelievable. But that's the only lesson that matters. That's it. You want to know what this whole thing is? This whole experience, this whole human experience is the pursuit of him. That's it. That's it. That's all you got to do. That's the secret sauce. You know, I don't know what the right names are. You know, sometimes I have a tough time with the name Jesus because I feel like it's been used poorly.

I call him Yeshua.

Done well, my friend. You've done well. I got one last question.

Yeah.

Your mom.

Yeah.

What would you say to her?

I don't think I need to say anything to her. I think she's been with me the whole time. I think she was sitting right next to me today and every day of my life. I don't think that. I know that.

That means you're at peace.

Yeah. Yeah, man. It's, it's. You know, I think back to everybody who was always dangling faith in Front of me. So many people prayed for me over all these years. People had randomly come up to me. I pray for you. I'm like, don't waste your prayers on me. You know, when you're young and you know, the McWhaters, Marty, I hope she sees this. She's the one that took me to Rome and Madrigorj and this whole experience, that's all it is, man. People were like. Which people are like. I'm always looking for my purpose. Like, your purpose is to love God. Your calling, that's different. But if you stay true on your purpose, then he'll put you where he needs you to do the things he needs done. And if you can stay present in the moment and bring him close to you, then you got nothing to worry about. And death isn't scary. None of it is. You know, like that, that lightness, just the happiness, just the calm that comes with that feeling that, like that moment and I gotta find it. There's times when I get spun up and I move in different directions and I gotta.

That book like that is like a lifeline for me. It brings me back. It's a reminder. He's with you. We're all just so lucky to have this. We create our own experiences. We manifest this. We, you know, we believe that we make. We're here to. We're humans having a spiritual experience. We're spirits having a human experience, not humans having a spiritual experience. And when you realize that, you know, I think like, vibrationally, obviously I love music, but, you know, like, everything's vibration, everything's energy vibrating. And in quantum physics, everything's a frequency. Yeshua is a frequency, you know, like a Kundalini. Awakening is the opening of the Christ consciousness within you. And when that Christ consciousness, the Holy Spirit, enters you, then it can work through you. And we're made in God's image, right? And a glove is made in God's image. But a glove without a hand, and it's just a glove. And when that Christ consciousness is ignited within you, it allows the Holy Spirit inside of you. And that's what it is. It's God. The Father is everything. The Son is the Christ consciousness. And the Holy Spirit is him working in his followers.

Jesus is a frequency man. Tune your instrument, you tune your instrument to him. Keep that thing tuned up and the chords sound right? That's. You know, he said the kingdom of God is within you. He was a teacher. He always said, you're going to do greater things than I ever did. I think he left A blueprint what to become. If this world was. I just think about, like, if there's 8 billion Jesuses walking around, this place would be awesome. Right? Right. We wouldn't have any problems.

There's only one.

I know, but what he was saying is do it. I. I set. I set the bar. You guys match it. There can be 8 billion of you.

We can't. We can't hit that bar. All we can do is try.

That's the point. That's the experience. That's it, man. It's a pursuit.

We've already it up.

Maybe, maybe.

But that doesn't mean you stop trying.

You can quit. Never quit. You get knocked down, you get back up, you push forward. That's right. You know that gremlin that lives inside you that refuses. It kept you in the cold water a little bit longer. That little thing, like, he's useful. The ego's not the demon. You need him. You need him in check. You need to be able to see where he is and how to use him when you need him. And then you need to know when he's crossed the line and he needs to go into timeout for a little bit. You need to. You need to be able to recognize that your body is inside of your soul. You know, my simulate, my daughter is the most beautiful thing the universe has ever created. I mean that she was born with her soul on the outside of her body. And it's so cool. She is like just your daughter. A daughter. I always say, like, you don't know what true love is until you have a daughter. Because it eliminates that part. And it's just like, God, I can just sit there and just watch her when she talks. I don't care what she's talking about.

I'm like, keep going. Like, I just love you. You know, my. My youngest tan man, he's got an overdeveloped sense of justice and a healthy disregard for authority. Wired like a frogman. I love watching him play hockey. Not being present, man, being there, sitting on set. You know, I think in life you have. You have jobs, you have pursuits, you have jobs and you have roles and pursuits. I tell people when they're young, find your pursuits. For me, it was music and skiing. No matter where I was in life, I found something to slide down and a song to play guitar that would. Music was there. It's carried me. It's been a pursuit, and it's led me to different jobs. Same thing with skiing. It led me to jobs. But then at a certain point, you Realize you fill roles and like being on set. For me, that's not a job, but it's being there is a role that I want that has nothing to do with money. You realize that, like the role you play. We're all actors. We're all actors in this big thing. We're all playing different roles. What role do you want to play?

What role is the one that means something outside of jobs? Like, jobs come and go. Like, you figure out your roles. Any job will do, you know, and those. Those pursuits are important. Chase those when you're young. They'll take you places of them. Find the jobs are good, but find the roles you want and focus on those. Was being a dad or being a husband.

I think the real mission is peace of mind.

Yeah. Yeah.

We get too wrapped up in possessions. Money.

Yeah.

Like that. But that doesn't bring you peace of mind.

No.

And that's the real winner. When you can sit with yourself. Yeah, Peace.

More peace of mind you have, the less you need.

You don't need any.

Exactly. Exactly. Gets it. It's such a beautiful thing. And you just see all of the teachings fall into place. You know what I mean? I do. I'm looking at the Bible connections on the wall. It's just like, yeah, they gave you the playbook. It's all been done, man.

Yeah. Well, Pete, I think this is the end, my man.

I think it is. Thank you.

It was an honor.

Honored to be here. It's an honor to tell you this story. Thank you.

I love you, dude.

I love you, brother. Foreign.

I'm Sean Ryan, former Navy seal, CA contractor, and host of the Sean Ryan Show. Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers, no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask. But in the age of the psyop, that search has never been more difficult. In September of 2022, the U.S. army's 4th PSYOP group released a cryptic video on YouTube.

There is another very important phase of warfare. It has as its target not the body, but the mind of the enemy.

Between clips of troops assembling chess pieces and social unrest, phrases begin to appear on screen. They ask, have you ever wondered who's pulling the strings?

These are the Psy War soldiers.

The series you're about vowed to listen to is an attempt to answer that question and an even bigger one. The global power brokers that conduct psychological operations constantly evolve. Technology like AI has evened the playing field. And now, in the era of social media and the democratization of information, all it takes to conduct a Psyop is.

A smartphone like and subscribe.

In each episode we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved and how they are being deployed. There's a quote that is attributed to a scientist named E.O. wilson that says we are drowning in information while starving for wisdom. This is a life raft in that sea of both information and misinformation. Psyops are all around us. They're conducted by corporations, governments, activist groups, intelligence agencies, foreign adversaries, and anyone who knows how to shape perception to get what they want. The series provides an in depth look at how these Psyops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians, tech innovators and more. We look at world events that are being shaped by highly constructed psychological operations specialists and look at the terrifying possibilities of where this could all be headed. Along the way, you'll learn learn about everything from Russian troll farms, fake ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, mind control cults, to the CIA's involvement in Hollywood. Do you have any people paid by.

The CIA who are working for television networks?

The early history of Psyops and psychological experiments Experiments laid the foundation for what we see today in modern campaigns that seek to divide culture over polarizing issues. We look at where we are and how we got here. But ultimately this series is a toolkit to help you understand how you're being manipulated and how to spot the signs of a psyop. Before the Army's viral Psyop Psyop recruitment video ends, the words on screen inform viewers that war is evolving and all the world's a stage. This series is a peek behind the curtain. Welcome to the PSYOP. Buy it today@psyopshow.com.