Transcript of How Max Pacioretty Landed with the Toronto Maple Leafs | Agent Provocateur

This is Agent provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wilde.

Welcome to another episode, a weekly episode of Agent Provocateur. Adam, how's your week been so far?

Well, it's especially good after last night, Alan, where a player wearing number 67 opened the scoring for the Toronto Maple Leafs, who have not won a cup since 1967. I don't know if you've ever heard his name. Do you know who I'm talking about here?

There's a little symmetry there. Max Pacioretti.

That's right. I don't think that's ever happened before. I mean, it's the most talked about season in Leaf's history, 66 67, because it was the last time they won the cup and that's over 50 years ago. And we've heard it over and over and over again. And a former Montreal captain comes into Toronto and opens the scoring for the Leafs. I don't think the numbers there got by anybody. And I'm just curious. So when you were watching, you must have. Because I know you've got your 40 screens up when you're watching your players and that sort of thing. You must have freaked out a little bit.

Well, I was very happy for him. You know, as you said, it was the first leaf skull of the season.

Yes.

And very apropos that such a. Such a noted goal scorer for so many years in the league, you know, seven times, 30 plus goals to get that first goal, especially after, and has been well documented in the media, what he's been through the last couple of years to get back, to be able to play, will return to form and play at the level he's playing at now.

And he's on a fun line too. Like Holmberg seems to be a Berube favorite. And Nick Robertson for the Leafs has a ton to prove and had a great preseason with Max. And they seem to have like a really, the potential of that line is a little bit scary. It's a little spooky because they have a lot of potential to score a lot of points. I think a lot of people when Max was coming into camp and that sort of thing, they're like, well, this is interesting, like where is he going to fit? And that was a real big discussion point in Toronto and I want to rewind that now that we know sort of where he's fitting into the lineup through the first couple of games. And obviously Habs fans were on him in game one, booing him every time he touched the puck, which is you expect that from Montreal fans. And that's what makes them so great? I want to note, Alan, I don't.

Really expect that, given that he did nothing but wonderful things for the city of Montreal and for the club and didn't leave the city on bad terms in any way. He was traded. The team had decided not to engage with him on a long term contract. There was a decision that they made. It happens. It's a business. But they ultimately traded him. And he's never in any way looked upon his time in Montreal with anything other than it being amazing. He was a part of the community, an important part of the community. He had great friends there, still has great friends there. So, you know, it's kind of misplaced. But hey, you pay your money for your ticket. You pay your money for your ticket and you want to go to a game and boo a guy, go ahead and do it.

And they did it to Domey, too, right? Like, you know, it's all your former habs playing for the leaves. I think that's where it comes from because I can't imagine anybody in Montreal is like, no, we don't like Max. Like, I think he's a beloved guy because of all the things that you mentioned. Right. And I think what's special and spectacular about this is the amount of, like, I just don't think people understand how much he had to do in order to get to this. And I saw the first period intermission interview yesterday, and he talked about that just a little bit about the, you know, how it was so important to regain the speed being fleet of foot, the quickness, the zero to 60. Right. And Alan, I think you can speak to this a little bit more. I do want to talk about that, and I also want to talk about how this whole deal with Toronto came together in the first place. So let's talk about the health thing first. As much as you can say. Obviously he made a comeback with Washington last year, pretty successful in that, you know, half a point a game pace.

Not bad for a guy that missed training camp in the first half of the season. What did it take to get to that point?

Well, there were two different surgeries for ruptured achilles and one follow up surgery after that. So technically had three surgeries that he had to come back from within a two year period. And if you know Max, throughout his entire career he has been almost on an obsessive. He had an obsessive zealous in taking care of his body, eating the right foods, training in very particular ways. It was truly like if there was a new way to train or a new trend, you could go to Max and talk about it because he was already all over it. And he knows who the best doctors are, who the best trainers are, and he has sought them out and trained with them throughout the years, whether it was rehabbing a particular injury, improving something in particular he wanted to work on. And really, he has a scientific knowledge. I mean, I've been talking to professional athletes on a daily basis for 30 years, and in my 30 years, there has never been a player as knowledgeable and as obsessive about what goes into his body, how he trains, what he does in every single way. It's truly remarkable.

When he went through the second injury in Carolina, and obviously that had to be extraordinarily frustrating. Did you sit down with him and say, okay, so let's make a plan here, or is that something that Max just goes, I got a plan. I'm going to execute on that and I will be back.

We talk about everything, but at the end of the day, he is the person who is saying, I've identified this doctor, or what do you think about this? And can you make contact with this person for me? And many times he does it on his own. I'm here to support. I'm here as a sounding board. But really, with his detailed knowledge of what it takes to take care of himself and to seek out the best people. It's a team, but he's leading the team.

Yeah. Yeah. And he. So I guess when it comes to Toronto, obviously, it was a fit that I don't think a lot of people on my side of the, my side of the aisle here expected at the beginning, like, you know, I think, you know, when that PTO sort of came together, it was like, oh, that's a, that's a nice surprise. I didn't, I didn't see the Leafs going after a player like Max. How does that deal come together? What kind of evaluations go into that? To go into that and, and, you know, what kind of conversations would you have had with Brad that you can talk about?

This is a very special situation. So we started talking, you know, Max and I, with Toronto probably around the middle of July, and by very early August, there was a level of interest by Toronto where it looked very much like there was a really good fit here. So Max went into Toronto very quietly. He met with chief and he met with Bradley, and he met with the Leaf doctors who spent considerable time with him, their strength and performance people. Max went on the ice and skated with them and they asked him to do specific things. And whatever was asked of him, he was happy to do so. At the end of this two day process of talking, meeting doctors, strength coaches, performance people, and actually being out on the ice, we came up together with the framework of a deal and that deal was done and basically done since the beginning of August. So, as has been very clearly telegraphed from Brad Trelawn himself and me, this was not ever a traditional PTO. You don't ever hear a GM with a player on a PTO say on the first day of training camp, this player is going to be on our team this year?

Which is what Brad said. Yeah, and I said something very similar to that as well. I said, you know, expect him to sign a contract at the end of training camp. Now, I don't want to get into the weeds, into the base salary and the games played bonuses, but you will notice if you look at it, they're very odd numbers. The base salary and the games played, that was intentional. At the end of camp, through the magic of Brandon Pridham, to come up with the numbers that work for the Leafs and they're utilizing all remaining cap space and then ultimately going into LTI and being able to maximize their LTI space. That's, that's on their end. That's their business. They manage their cap the way they need to manage their cap. So while there was an understanding that Max was going to sign his contract at the end of training camp, we had not agreed on the division of base salary to games played until the end. But make no mistake, this was not a PTO. And we telegraphed that on purpose. We wanted everybody to understand this was not a PTO. What was frustrating at times is after Brad Trelawing says, max is going to be here this year, and I say, expect them to sign a contract at the end of camp.

A lot of media are sticking microphones in Max's face saying, so you're here on a PTO and what's it like being here on a tryout? And I mean, I get it, but it's frustrating that, come on, you're following the Leafs and you don't get this. You're not picking up on this. And several of the insiders were reporting that a agreement was reached before training camp and saying it and printing it, and still there are people sticking microphones in his face saying, well, you're on a tryout and people are writing articles on, boy, I wonder if he's going to make the team or nothing. Your place in the roster and what line you're going to play on and who you're going to play with. I mean, you can't negotiate that or agree on that. That's not what we do. We negotiate the player contract with the club. So training camp is important in the fleshing out who fits with who on what line. You know, you can play on the right side or the left side and who are you going to play with and all that. And it changes very much during the season. Several of the line and line combinations and players in the lineup and players out of the lineup.

But the, the bigger question of, is Max going to be a leaf this year was agreed upon in early August.

Right? Right. And, you know, I think there are lots of instances like that, Alan, where, you know, you and I talk about this sometimes on the show, sometimes outside of it, you know, and I think I asked you this question a couple of episodes ago when those things happen, when, you know, like, hey, there, there's something that's actively being reported that is incorrect. What do you tell a player and what do you do as an agent to go, like, is there a threshold where you go, okay, I can let this go because a, B and C, or is it just, do you have to sit back and do you have to coach guys through something like that? And we're not talking specifically about Max, but you've had, you've met many players over your career in high profile situations, contract negotiations, where there's a ton of info out there and a lot of it's incorrect. How do you manage that? Because even in a smaller situation like this, because it was pretty obvious what was going on, it's still frustrating.

Yeah. And I think it depends on the situation. It depends on the player. It depends at what stage of his career he's at. How many contracts has he signed before? Is this a contract of someone pending UFA status? So take a player like Philip Aronek last year, the ongoing narrative by some people in the Vancouver media on his contract status. And, I mean, the debate within the media, Vancouver has a really good game. Philip has a great game. And people are saying, oh, yeah, let's. Eight times eight is great. And then Vancouver loses the game and things don't go very well. And it's like, oh, man, they shouldn't sign him for a dollar over 6 million. And it's this rollercoaster of insanity going on on a daily basis basis. And, and I told, I told Philip very early on, you know, you've never played in a canadian market before. A lot of people in that media have agendas. Here's what we do. We say nothing. We don't give that apparatus any oxygen at all. The entire year. You don't say anything about it. I don't say anything about it. I had some guys, media guys, who have, you know, daily shows.

I mean, literally texting me every day, you know, come on our show to talk about Philip Roenick and his contract situation. Literally, every single day. I mean, I literally. I can scroll through, and if I ever needed to show somebody literally, like, 15 text messages, I don't even answer them, you know, I'm not going on your show. I'm not giving any oxygen at all to that. Let the player play. You can go do whatever you like. I understand you got a job to do, but there's nothing coming from me, and there is nothing coming from the player. Now, that was that particular situation. Other people and other players and in other cities and in other situations, it may be beneficial to more actively manage messaging and so forth. But it just goes to show you that there is a huge dichotomy, and you need to really understand the market. Right. Because in some places, adding a voice can be a very positive.

Yeah.

And in other markets, it doesn't matter what you say or how you say it. All you're doing is throwing oxygen on the fire.

Right, right. Kind of fanning things. Well, I have to say, as an aside, and this is completely irrelevant to our conversation, when Max was being interviewed, my wife, who watches every game with me and is getting to know some of the newer players, she's like, who is that? He's very handsome. I said, well, he's got a few kids, so, I mean, yeah, I think a lot of people agree.

I can tell you one other thing about him. If, from his days as captain of the Montreal Canadiens, he's incredibly comfortable, insightful, and well spoken when interacting with media, answering questions, providing analysis of what's going on in a game. We had him on our podcast together as a guest, and he was on agent provocateur in our first season. Fantastic interview. He was incredibly well spoken and talked a lot about training and training methods and his philosophy of the game and how he approaches preparation, approaches games and so forth. And it was. I got a lot of feedback on that particular episode regarding him, on how much people enjoyed hearing from him on that.

Absolutely. I actually. We dug up some clips from that when he. When he signed with the Leafs, specifically talking about how intense he is about his health and him talk going through it. And it's. It's a great interview. If you want to go back and check it out, it's in the. It's in the archives. And a fantastic one. He's just a. He was very warm and very relaxed on that one. I really loved it. Alan, I do want to know, like, you know, former Montreal Canadiens captain, what was interesting for Max about Toronto?

There were several things. Number one, the most important thing was if he was going to play this year, he wanted it to be with a team that legitimately will contend for the cup. That was the most important criteria for him. And of course, he's a very. It's very well documented that he's an incredible family guy. He's got five kids and it's an incredibly close family, incredibly close knit family. And his wife Katia provides him with amazing support. She's a former professional tennis player. And, you know, all of his boys, his four boys are playing hockey right now.

Wow.

And they have moved to Detroit and they're living in Detroit now full time. So the proximity of Toronto to Detroit was obviously an important factor as well, given how connected he is to his family. But for him, it was all about winning.

Okay. And he wanted to be here and win. I love that. I want to, you know, I really appreciate the insights on Max because he's going to be fascinating to watch as a Toronto Maple Leaf. And I never thought Max Bacheretti, Toronto Maple Leaf. But here we are. It's great. Something else special happened this week that went reported, but of course, we've had so many games since then that people have already forgotten about it. The debut of the Utah hockey club in Utah where they broke beer record sales for the Utah Jazz dating back to 1991 at the Delta center. Obviously people were exuberant and excited and, you know, there was a little bit of chat about, oh, well, it's a bit of an impacted view, uncertainty, whatever. That arena is going to be redone, I believe, for the Olympics, and I think it's $300 million that's going into it. It was very cool to see an NHL owner with his hat on backwards dropping a puck. And I wanted to know, obviously, Sean Dursey is a major part of the now and the future there, and I wanted to know if you got any feedback from him or from any other players about what opening night was like.

Yeah, opening night was amazing. I can tell you this. Everything about Utah is exactly what the NHL needs. This is a market that has absolutely embraced NHL hockey and has embraced this team in a very special way. People in the community and I've talked to a lot of people in the community, business people in the community, and they are super excited about this team. They're wanting to get on board as sponsors. They're looking to do deals, individual deals with players. There is a level of enthusiasm that is, it's beyond what anybody expected. It's beyond what I expected. The reception opening night by the fans was something special that I think every player and every person in that organization is going to remember and not wanting to turn such an incredible positive into a negative at all in any way. But it just goes to show you again how, with all due respect to hockey in Arizona, I also believe that Phoenix, the Phoenix area can and will support an NHL team, and there ultimately will be another NHL team in Phoenix. The years and years and years of Gary Bettman propping up bad ownership with a team located forever in the wrong place, in the wrong area, in the wrong location, in the wrong building cost the players and owners literally hundreds of millions of dollars in HRR.

Right.

And my feeling is, if you're in a cap system that is based on your defined revenues and the league is not doing everything it can to generate revenues, it's a further, besides all the different caps that are on players, and we've talked at length about the triple hard cap system.

Your favorite?

Yes, my favorite. So not only do you have all these caps on players, you've got the entry level cap, you've got the overall team payroll cap, you've got the 50 50 cap and cap. And cap and cap. But if one side is not doing the side responsible for managing the business. Right. There's something legally called management rights, where players and the NHLPA have no say in how the business is being run. But if you're not doing everything you can to maximize revenues, which is ultimately what player compensation year after year is being based on, isn't that bad faith?

I was going to ask you, could that be considered bad faith?

Well, it's worthy of an argument that it could be considered bad faith. And credit to Marty Walsh and the NHL PA. I think his comments at the All Star game in Toronto last year indicated that the players had had enough.

Right.

Finally.

And not just the players who were playing there, just the players generally. Right?

The entire league of players, the 750 players collectively and the union had had enough.

Yes. Yeah. Well, it's. It really did happen quickly. And you wonder why it didn't happen ten years ago, but it happened, and what a positive it's been. And I think, you know, for, you know, I think. I think it's hard for Coyotes fans, but I think Utah fans have said, hey, keep cheering for it. Like, we're happy to have you here. Did see some Coyotes fans in the audience and I think you're absolutely right, Alan. I think there's going to be a team in Arizona. It's going to work. Just need to get the venue sorted and get the ownership sorted. And it sounds like there have been rumors about the NBA owner there who has done a great job with the Suns, potentially now being like, okay, I would look at this down the road. So thats very, very exciting. Now, very quickly, before we go, and I wanted to mention this for a couple of shows, you just recently celebrated 25 years at Octagon.

And this is 20 years.

20 years at Octagon. Not 25. In five years it will be 25 years.

Five years.

It'll be 25, 20 years at Octagon. Alan, I want to know in that time, are there any specific memories that standard is like, that this is a glory. Being an agent is a really hard job. It's not glamorous. It's a lot of grinding. Just this morning you were dealing with things, you know, it's taking phone calls on Christmas day and family vacations and in the middle of the night. What stands out to you as like, here's one of my favorite memories.

Wow.

I have, I have, I have a few that I would classify as favorite memories. I think Flower and Pittsburgh winning their.

First cup, which is on the picture behind you, by the way, in Joe.

Louis arena, game seven with the save against Nick Lidstrom in the dying seconds of game seven to preserve the win and having several other clients on that team as well, that was an incredible celebration. You know, that was just an amazing, amazing moment. I remember as that last face off was taking place in Pittsburgh's d zone. Two flowers left, and I'm in the stands about 15 rows up, a little bit off to the left of flower and literally, like, breathing hard, unable to, like, get any air into my lungs. And that puck drops and it was surreal watching as, you know, the shot on goal and then Flower sliding over to his right and moving up and making that stop. And then there was a second that was frozen in time before everyone on the ice acknowledged that and realized time was up. And it was like everyone kind of froze for that one beat and then gloves flying up everywhere. Amazing, amazing moment. I was down on the ice with the players. There was an exuberance, a feeling of accomplishment. The team was so young. Many of the players on the team was so young.

The core of that team was so young, you know, I laugh about it now. You know, Billy Garon, who was a guest on our show, was on the ice as a player then, and so many people that I'm still interacting with on a regular basis, we have that connection with. Ray Shiro was the GM of that team and he was a guest on our show as well. These are relationships that were forged and bonded working together. And I don't cheer for teams necessarily, but it's a people business. You build relationships with people and you feel very gratified when they have success. And of course, the players. The players are everything. So when they have success, it just. It's a very special feeling.

Well, congratulations on 20 years, and I know your career extends far further back than that, obviously, but to get this.

Is my 30th year in the business.

Wow.

And 20 at Octagon since Octagon acquired my agency in 2004.

Wow. Wow. Well, congratulations, Allen. And I'm happy we got the chance to catch up this week. And on the heels of Max Pacioretti scoring the first leaf school of the year and a big Leafs win, too. So, Alan, we're going to catch up again next week. Plenty to talk about and we'll have some interviews and guests as we always do throughout the season. But until then, enjoy. I know you're not celebrating, probably down there, but enjoy canadian Thanksgiving.

Yeah, you got it. Have a great week and happy Thanksgiving to everybody in Canada and we'll see you next week.

This has been agent provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wild. Follow Alan Walsh on Twitter alsha. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts by searching agent provocateur and hitting the subscribe button. YouTube.com sdpnouse.