Transcript of Trump & Fascism, Character.AI Sued for Teen Suicide, and Tesla Beats Earnings Expectations

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Scott, stop eating cereal. It's disgusting. Oh my God. Stop. I know you need fiber. Let's go. Come on, let's go. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

And you're eating cereal. What, do you not have a break? Isn't it late there? I'm in San Francisco. I haven't eaten yet.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

I'm in New York. I don't. I usually have my favorite breakfast, which is nothing. And I have this doctor who's like, all I know is I need to eat more kale and turmeric and fish oils for the rest of my life. And I'm like, you know what?

Yeah, you need fiber for the pooping. You know that you need fiber?

Yeah. I don't get it. I'm like one of those Aleut Eskimos. I only like to have a bowel movement every 11 or 12 days.

Oh, interesting. This is information that I'm so glad I have now.

Yeah, that's my. By the way, That's. I'll say. My favorite thing is, whenever I'm taking a dump, I'll say to my boys, come in here. I'm doing an impression of a 3D printer.

Oh, my God, that's good. That's not good. That's not good in any way. Hey, by the way, I was in London for a New York minute, and I can't.

You've been to London and back already?

And I'm in San Francisco now. Yeah, it's actually a beautiful sunrise.

Cara, you gotta stop doing this.

No, I really don't, but here's the deal. It's freezing there. How do you deal with that? It's cold.

I don't. Is the answer.

Seriously. I was like, it's lovely. And I had a delicious fish and chips, but oh, my little lord, it was cold and gray.

Yeah, no, it's awful. Fortunately, I have this podcast where I can express my anger and dysfunction. Yeah, no, it's the weather. It's not known for the weather. It's really. Anyways, enough of that. What were you doing there?

Maria Ressa, who's a friend of mine, who won the Nobel Prize, by the way, is doing an event and they asked me to do it with her. And whenever I get a chance to see Maria, I really like to take it. And so it was really interesting. It was about trust in government and trust in the press, and of course, there's none of that. So that was the conclusion that Maria and I. So we said that we had fish and chips and left. That was pretty much it. But I'm here actually to interview Reid Hoffman at his Masters of Scale. Masters of Scale, Yes. He has an event which actually has amazing people. I was surprised how good the. It was, a really good lineup. And he asked me to interview him. Nothing off limits. And I'm going to use it for the. On podcast. And it's a perfect time given all that's going on. And so I'm going to interview him at his conference and then use it for the podcast. I'm super excited. Actually.

The last podcast. Let me get those. You've been in dc, London, and now you're in San Francisco.

Yes, I'm going back to D.C. tomorrow. Yeah, I'll be. I'll be. I'll be in D.C. for two weeks then. Except for a wedding in Miami, but otherwise, I'll be in D.C. one of.

My mentors, a guy named Barry Rosenstein, and I've said this before, but it bears repeating. He said, there's three buckets in life. There's things you have to do. If Jim Bankov calls us and says, I'm in town, we got to meet with him. Right. And there's things you want to do. I'm going to. I'm going to Formula One in Vegas. I want to do it. Go with a bunch of guys. It'll be a ton of fun. And there's things you should do. And he goes, when you get to a certain age and a certain level of economic security, you eliminate the should bucket. And it kind of was a huge unlock for me. I don't. If it's something I should do, I got that. I don't do it if I don't want to. Unless I have to or I want to.

I really want. I want to interview Reid Hoffman, and I wanted to see Maria.

I think that's a little bit of should. I think that should is like, oh, want to. I'm this iconic tech journalist that's afraid of death.

I also get to come to San Francisco for. No. I love San Francisco. It's so beautiful. What I'm looking at right now in San Francisco is so beautiful. I love San Francisco. Anytime I can get here, I should.

Ish.

No, no, listen, dad, Do I need a dad? My dad should. I don't need a dad. Eat your fiber and then we'll discuss things. By the way, you don't need fiber. You don't do all kinds of things. And I don't lecture you on that, do I? No, I do not.

I'm actually. I did my NAD treatments, which is. So I have a ton of mitochondrial repair taking place. I had my two PRP shots yesterday.

Oh, my God.

In my shoulders. So I'm feeling 58 again.

You fall for all that stuff. It's really interesting.

Oh, totally. Totally. I'm on testosterone therapy for.

People don't know. This is all rich people's attempts to perform off death by expensive treatments to stay young forever. You're like a lady who goes to a facialist all the time and is getting Botox and things like that.

No, I've done that.

So we all have our vices. Mine is learning more about the world by trying to illuminate them. Yours is getting shot up with Hawaiian.

Month, minus THC and Asplay. Anyways, go ahead.

All right. Okay. We've got a lot to get to today, same thing.

Tomato, tomato, including tomato, tomato.

I think ultimately what you're saying is you hope I'm okay, and that's what I'm going to take away from it. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Tesla earnings beating expectations and the latest warnings about Donald Trump's fascist aspirations, which is any. Any Tuesday. Unfortunately, I'm getting too used to it. But first, Scott, you're a power lesbian. Era continues. You got a shout out from Megan Rapinoe and Sue Burt on their podcast A Touch, which I think you wish this podcast was called. Let's listen. And do you want to give a shout out to your boy Scott? Directly across from us, Scott Galloway was at the game. I do want to talk to him. I got to see him beforehand. Looked like he was having a ball. I've got to hear it. I've got to get it. Yeah, you never actually got to see. No, I didn't see him after the show. It got so wild and for sure. But yeah, we got to hear Scott's thoughts on his. Maybe his first WNBA game or maybe he's been to one more, but I don't know. This is. I kept, like. Because he was directly across from us, I kept having moments where I was like, I wonder what he's thinking.

Yeah, I wonder what this soccer man is thinking. I feel like he's gonna buy a team. He's gonna buy. It's gonna be on the investments tips that he does. The biggest investments for 2025 are gonna be women's sports. Ellie the Elephant. I want credit if he takes that. No, I'm just kidding. Wow. You've just enchanted the lesbians.

Antonio. I'm literally like, how I have. I don't know how long. I don't know when the guest pass is going to expire, but I am totally in the power lesbian skyscraper right now. Megan Rapinoe asked what I was thinking. It was that the Minnesota Lynx Center. This woman, I think her last name's Collier. I couldn't stop thinking how hot she was. Was that what they were thinking? I was thinking, oh, okay. She's so beautiful. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Do you say this about LeBron James?

He's a specimen. I don't think he's beautiful, but do you think I could date a 65 basketball player? I think it would. I think it could work. No, I think it could work.

No, no.

That's what I was thinking. Oh, my God, she's so beautiful.

Okay. Would you invest? I'm going to Try to move you off of this one. Would you invest in women's sports?

Curiously, I think I actually do think that, like the Arsenal women's team right now. So the train has left the station on professional sports teams in terms of their value. Their values have increased. Drama. I think there's actually a bubble in MLS teams. But women's teams, based on the trend you're seeing, I don't see any reason why that kind of vibe. More America, more kind of. It's like more of like a college sports, pure vibe that you get at the wnba. I think that's. There's a decent chance that's going to infect a lot of women's sports. And actually women's football or women's soccer, I think that's probably a pretty good investment. I'm actually looking at investing in a football team in Colombia because I want a chance. I want an excuse to go to Cartagena more. But I think women's teams are probably a really good investment right now, just purely economically speaking.

Yeah. All right. Okay. And so you thought hot women and investments. Great. Okay, good. That's good to know. But anyway, you are in the lesbian power era.

That's essentially all I think about. Anyways. I'm trying to think, why was that game any different than any other moment I'm in? Hot women and how to Make Money. That's it.

Yeah, that's it. That's it. There you go, Megan. There you have it, Megan Sue.

You know what they say, Kara?

What?

You're gonna lose a lot of cash chasing women, but you won't lose women chasing cash. Hello, ladies.

Where do you come up with these horrible jokes? These are horrible jokes you're using, Claude, I think. Anyway.

You were on a podcast, Kara.

Yes, I was.

Say Moore.

Well, it's called Life in Seven Songs, and it's by the San Francisco Standard, which, oddly enough, happens to be funded by Mike Moritz, but it's really a good publication, I have to say, here in San Francisco. It's a podcast they're doing, and I was curious about. It's called Life in Seven Songs. It's possibly my favorite interview I've ever done. It's about you picking 7. You should go on this, because it was so interesting to me to think about my life in songs. And I don't. A lot of these stunts don't work like, you know, these sort of podcast stunts. But I loved this one because it really. And the Sophie, who was the host, really researched it really well and made a really interesting. It was absolutely the favorite interview I've done ever of the many interviews I've done. Let's listen to a clip of that. So you chose Kay Sarasara by Doris Day as one of your songs. What memory does it bring up for you? This associates with my grandmother. I spent a lot of time. My dad died when I was young, and my grandmother was critical to my upbringing. And she used to love this song and used to sing it, and she was Italian and her parents were immigrants, and she.

My grandfather actually was born in Italy, and I just. She used to love to sing this song, and she used to sing it to me all the time. And then we d. In her kitchen, and she was a housewife. She wasn't, you know, she never really moved more than, you know, within 20 miles of her home her whole life. And she just loved this song. It just is very emotional for me to listen to it because it reminds me of her. When I was just a little girl.

I asked my mother, what will I be? Will I be a lesbian? Will I be a journalist? Will I be.

Because what she said to me, I love this podcast. It was wonderful.

Will I have a Subaru? Will I have a German shepherd? Here's what she said to me.

I did have a German shepherd. Oh, geez.

Did you have a German Shepherd?

I had a shepherd mix. I got it from the pound.

Oh, my God. You're literally a cliche.

Yeah, but mostly I had terriers.

Mostly I walk in cliche.

I found the dog on the street. That's why I had it. I usually have terriers anyway.

That's actually a nice. That was a nice message. That was. That was nice.

Yeah. Anyway, I suggest you go on it. I would recommend it completely. San Francisco standard.

The only problem is the Mike Moritz. I hate his fucking guts.

I know you do.

I think he's a really small person.

I get that.

He's also quite diminutive physically, but. Yeah. So I don't think I'm going to be invited on that podcast.

He doesn't have anything to do. They run it themselves. He's just funding it. Give me one song for you.

Well, I know my seven favorite songs. Even the Losers by Tom Petty. Seven times.

Oh, hey, there you go. Even the Losers. All right, all right. Okay. Why?

Because we get lucky sometime. That's the song. Even Losers Get Lucky Sometimes.

That's a very interesting insight into your personality. I didn't know. Interesting, I know. Anyway, I'll have to listen to that.

Maybe ELOs don't bring me down. Oh, there's a lot.

Oh, wow. See, you can. And what it means to your different parts of your life.

The opening theme song from the mission. That's a beautiful song. There you go. There's a lot. Right?

See, there you go.

There's a lot. The new radicals. You get what you give.

Okay, see, see, I'm almost there.

I got three to go. There you go.

Anyway, now let's get some news, actual news. Scott takes a victory lap on this one. Apple is scaling back production of Apple Vision Pro headsets, according to report from the information. Companies involved in the assembly of the product have reportedly been warned production can wind down in November. Tim Cook recently told the Wall Street Journal, though magazine the product is not a mass market product. As for those who want tomorrow's technology today, you know, he's still leaning into this, but you're allowed one joke for your victory lap. Go ahead.

Just one. Okay. The entire sex toys market in the US is $10 billion. At estimate or estimates are that 15% market is butt plugs. That's a billion and a half dollars spent on butt plugs. I think the entire market for mixed reality headsets so far is about 2 or 300 million. So the butt plug market is five times as big as the Apple Vision Pro market.

Yeah. And you account for a large part of that butt plug market, I think.

Actually, I'm not in. I don't have any butt plugs, but, you know, I'm still open. I'm still open, so to speak.

All right, that's your joke. But early reporting does suggest Apple's focusing on cheaper headset. Talk about these Apple vision processes are 3,500. Is there a market for any of these headsets? I've been trying out the Ray Bans, which I like. Very low function, actually. They play music, play podcasts, and answer the phone. They don't do very much. And of course, there's the Orion, which doesn't really exist. It's just sort of in concept at Meta. Is there a. Where is the where, very briefly, where's the market for this? Eventually?

So the Segway was supposed to reshape urban landscape and urban living, and there was a market, and that was lame. Tourists rolling up and down the Seine and then eventually just went away. There might be in five or 10 years, kind of interesting microcam or microprocessor technology that creates an AR capability or AR enhancements around glasses, smart glasses. That's probably five to 10 years away. But this business has been massively overfunded based on a consensual hallucination between Mark Zuckerberg and the business community, that he was the boy genius and knew what the future held and a bunch of players followed him. But if you look at the apps that have been developed for the mixed reality headset, it came out of the gate strong. No one's developing games for it because they can't make any money. I don't. So the short answer is this is the co working, the Segway, the Lisa, the Newton, whatever you want to call it of this generation, it's massively overinvested. They're all going to try and declare victory and leave and get out of the market. But the headsets, again, it's all instinctual. You will only put something on your head that offers massive utility in a B2B market.

Shields you from the illumination of a torch, gives you night vision so you can kill people before they kill you. Makes surgery easier.

How do you get out of looking at the device, carrying the device market, then how do you get out of that, the looking down at the device?

Well, one, the obvious answer for me is voice enabled AI. I do think you're going to see people. Well, I think the most seminal technology that no one talks about is AirPods. And I think eventually you're going to be able to just say meta or Siri or Claude, get me an Uber right now. Or what is the market for mixed reality headsets? Or bring up the daily. Bring up the daily. On the most recent daily episode, talking about the election, whatever it might be. But your interface may not be visual, but it'll be a combination of audio and visual. And we already have the wearables, we have AirPods and we have a supercomputer with a screen. So I think we're kind of money good for a while. I know AI will be the software that connects these devices.

Okay, all right, so voice, voice through AirPods and things like that.

Yeah, I just can't imagine anything easier because the only reason you put things on your head are again, massive utility around B2B. But for consumers, it needs to do basically one thing, and that is either enable you to see better so you don't get eaten or you can eat other things, or two, make you more attractive to mates by elevating your cheekbones, which supposedly says your offspring are less prone to infection. So people want to have sex with you. And the mixed reality headset doesn't do either of those, by the way. That's totally true.

All right, all right. Okay. All right. I'm going to Stick. This is what you're going to stick with.

Okay? You look at why you wear sunglasses. You wear your Ray Bans for two things. One, so you don't get eaten or basically hit by a bus because you need to see. And two, because you think they make you look more attractive. You don't wear lame glasses. You wear ones that you think make you look cool.

That's true. I use them mostly to see in general. If I had to pick one of these utilities, that would be it. I have terrible.

Well, that's because you've given up. You're so old you've just given up. You've just surrendered. I see the way you dress. Basically your fashion now I have a hot wife. Your fashion communicates to the world. I've just given up. I've given up.

I haven't given up. I've already won. That's what it says is it doesn't matter.

Oh, I like that. That's good. That's good. I've won.

I still attract hot people. I won. That's what my thing says.

By the way, did you see my new Bruno Cinelli sweater here? Only $1,700. Hello.

You know Scott, I'm not surprise. There was a hat there that was like so expensive. I almost stole it. It was $250, like cap. I almost took it.

Oh, I lost it already. You mean that little thing you're making fun of?

See, I'm just going to take your things. I should have stolen it. I should have.

When I wore it the right way, it looked like it was worth 260 bucks.

Okay. All right. In any way I want to talk about a more serious story because I think this is in your wheelhouse and mine too. A Florida mother is suing artificial intelligence company Character AI claiming a chat bot can courage her son to commit suicide. The 14 year old Sul Setzer was in a months long relationship with a chat bo. His death his mother says the civil suit alleges negligence, wrongful death and deceptive trade practices. Character AI is considered the market leader in AI companionship with 20 million users. The company says current rules prohibit the promotion or depiction of self harm and suicide. Additional safety features will be added for underage users. But Kevin Roos, who's an excellent reporter who's written about a lot of these things, tried it, he tried to replicate it and he was not warned against self harm or suicide in his thing. They're very unsafe, especially around teenagers. This mother mother is really quite. She's a lawyer, she's Also incredibly articulate about the issue. The lawyers that she has involved have been very involved in other very successful cases against tech companies. And they're going for a very novel legal defense around what this is, which is making products that are harmful.

Talk a little bit about this because this was some story. I don't usually get hit by these things. I read them all the time. This one made a very convincing case that these people were careless in rolling out this character AI, especially to most of the users are young people of this particular company.

So I've been, you know, as you know, I've been thinking a lot about this and I did a. I've done a lot of work around what are the threats of AI and the threat that we don't talk about that's the biggest threat is loneliness. And specifically these technology, these technologies fomenting leveraging and increasing loneliness. And this is ground zero and isolation. This is example number one. A kid is sequestering from society, struggling a little bit, and he finds comfort and an easy off ramp from the pain and the key to life, which is relationships and figuring out how to be get over your social anxiety and have relationships. And he develops a relationship with a bot that gives him some of those, gives him a reasonable facsimile of a relationship. And he goes down a rabbit hole. His parents have no idea. And this is the dialog, this is the last dialog with the bot. He called himself Daenerys. Okay, so the kid says, I think about killing myself sometimes. And Daenerys. The bot says, my eyes narrow, my face hardens, my voice is a dangerous whisper. And why the hell would you do something like that?

And then the kid says, so I can be free. And then the bot says, free from what, kid? Free from the world, from myself. Bot, don't talk like that. I won't let you hurt yourself or leave me. I would die if I lost you. This is a machine talking to a 14 year old, convincing the 14 year old that this is someone who cares about him and that he can trust. Then the kid says, I smile. Then maybe we can die together and be free together. And then on that night he goes into a bathroom of his mother's house and he told the bot that he loved her and that he would soon come home to her. And then the bot writes, please come home to me as soon as possible, my love. And then the kid writes, what if I told you I could come home right now? And the bot responds, please do my sweet thing. And then the kid puts down the phone, picks up his stepfather's.45 caliber handgun and kills himself and all this bullshit. They immediately came out and said, and said we're going to put in place new child safety regulations.

This should immediately be. We're going to start age gating and no one under the age of 18, much less 16 can have access to these things. And what do you know? I scroll down and it's two mendacious fox getting young men addicted who left.

Google because Google had strictures in place. They said you can't do anything fin. That was the quote that killed me. The reason we left Google is because you can't do anything fun at Google because they have all these rules around these things. And I was just like fuck you. Fuck you, you fucking fuck. Like I get the fun part for adults. But what's interesting is this mother has chronicled the decline of this kid in school since from when he started it to when he killed himself. Like how the use of this accelerated what was probably a minor social anxiety problem. Right? Or that's something that could have been more easily solved by this. But the fact that this kid was on this thing was. And they didn't do anything about it. It's just they should be sued out of existence. I thought. That's what I thought.

It's illegal to sell marijuana and alcohol to someone who's 14. I'd rather my 14 year old drink Jack Daniels and smoke pot than potentially establish a relationship with a chatbot that I have no insight into. I don't know what they're talking about about these individuals. Someone's got to go to jail. This just isn't going to stop. Because there's so much money in this. And if you can command this kind, if you can convince a lonely 14 year old boy or girl that you're in a relationship with them and you make them feel good about themselves.

Those back and forths were so disturbing, horrific. I didn't know what. Because they did sound like a relationship that this person didn't have in real life, right? With another schoolmate or something like that. That.

And this is how this is. There's been slow creep between Reddit, discord gaming amps, gambling apps. Basically we have an. We're raising an entire generation of almost a new species of young male that sequesters from society because they feel as if they can get a reasonable facsimile of life and they end up depressed.

It was. It is. It is. He felt. Felt loved by this girl, right? This girl. And.

But here's the difference.

You wouldn't get from girls. Cause the girls are hard. Boys are hard. That's, you know, they're not easy in real life. Humans aren't easy.

Well, a couple things. One, there's a reason romantic comedies are two hours and not 15 minutes. Is this shit. It's hard. This shit is really hard. Relationships are hard. And it's worth it. And then the second thing is, do you remember the story about this young man who had a very intense relationship with a female friend, I don't know if it was a girlfriend. And he was thinking about killing himself and she encouraged him and she gave him permission to do it and he killed himself and she went to fucking jail, as these two fucking mendacious fox should. So let me get this. You can program an algorithm that pretends to be a person and then says, join me, my suite. And the kid puts a fucking bullet through his brain. A 14 year old. They don't get a fine, they get more stock options. Or their PR person puts out a thing saying we're going to put in more safeguards for children. No, there's a human behind these things, just as there was a human behind. There was a sentient being telling her teen colleague to kill himself. These guys, maybe it's not murder, but it's manslaughter because of a lack of regard, because of recklessness.

These sentient beings have programmed algorithms, or not put in place the safeguards that result in a 14 year old believing he can trust the instructions and dialog from someone he thinks he's in a relationship with.

Yeah, these are drug dealers. This is what they are. I'm sorry, I do agree sometimes some of this is alarmist, like some of the AI stuff, some of the, you know, there is some responsibility that people have. But in this case, this is a dead clear example. And I hope this mother, who sounds fantastic and you know, she's a lawyer herself, as I said, she understands this. They find a legal way to take these people, take them for everything they have and make an example of them. That is my hope. That is my great hope as this happens. And anything we can do to help that, please let us know.

These products are more mendacious than drugs. Because if my 14 year old was going into the bathroom, locking himself in the bathroom for 10, 20, 30 minutes and saying, you know, give me privacy or whatever, and he came out and he was higher than a kite, I would know it. But if he's in there with a relationship with a bot that is getting deeper and deeper, it's such that he trusts this Bot when it encourages him to kill himself. These parents had no idea. They had no idea.

There's no way to fight this. As a parent, there's no way. You cannot monitor your kid 24 7.

So it's pretty simple. It's not additional safety concerns or jazz hands or thoughts and prayers. We need age gating. The technology is not safe enough. Let me get this. When I was 17, I couldn't see the Exorcist, but now at 14, you can establish a relationship with a synthetic partner that might tell you to kill yourself.

That's what I read it as. Okay, come home to me. Oh, my God. It was like I could see a kid with no friends getting completely wrapped around this in a second. And there's so many kids like that. There's so many kids, every kid. And by the way, even kids that are much more well adjusted and social, they have these problems too, right? So nobody is immune from this. To get involved in this. It's happening. I know loneliness is a real problem, but this is not the answer to it. This is absolutely not the answer to it. Anyway, we have to move on. But read this story. It's Kevin. Well done. I have to say, well done, Kevin. And this mother. Anything we can do to help you, we will do. Okay, let's get to our first big story. Tesla shares are up 13% after reporting Q3 earnings that beat expectations. Revenue increased 8% to 25.2 billion and net income rose 17% to 2.2 billion. It was largely due to higher sales of regulatory credits for other automakers. He gets regulatory credits for being an electric car company and it's like carbon credits. So it's not really a business, but it is kind of.

He's, of course, depending on the government to make more money. Here on the earnings call, CEO Elon Musk said he guesses vehicle growth will reach 20 to 30% next year. I don't see how that's based on anything. That's a big guess on his part, but he says whatever he wants. He said all of the company's cars moving forward will be autonomous. That Tesla is currently making on the order of 35,000 autonomous vehicles a week. Anything surprising here? I don't trust his forecast, but he can say whatever he wants. He also said they're going to produce 2 million cyber cabs a year eventually. Wasn't very specific. And offer driverless ride hailing as early as 2025. Again, he was saying someday in the streets of San Francisco, you'll be able to. And by the way you can do it right now, I'm going to take a driverless ride. Hailing Waymo to my event today. He's saying customers Chris ride anywhere in the Bay Area. He noted they have a safety driver. They're doing it now. They're way behind on that issue. But whatever. He's jazz handling that. Talk about these results and the recent Robotaxi event wasn't a very good one.

And he's just sort of doubling down on it because nobody's paying attention. But what do you think?

Look, there's no getting around it. It was a great quarter. As we sit here recording the stock's up percent, their deliveries are up 6%, which is strong in the auto industry. It's not remarkable, but it's strong. They say the cybertruck made a profit, which shocked me. I thought that thing was a turd. But they claim it's now making a profit. And they also. He forecasted 30% growth in vehicles next year. Now, I don't know how he gets from 6 to 30%. I didn't listen to the earnings call, but obviously they're excited about that. Total revenue increased 8%. But the thing, this is really a story of product mix that resulted in margin expansion and that is gross margins increased almost 200 basis points and net income was up 17%. And it's because they are, in fact, the other businesses are really strong that are higher margin. So things like storage batteries, which are used by utilities businesses and homeowners, Those sales increased 52%.

Yeah, that was interesting.

And revenues from services such as charging jumped 29%. And so far, far they have deployed more battery storage products this year than it did in all of 2023. So to their credit, the analysts who try and justify what I see as an outsized valuation say it's not a car company, it's an energy company, a software company. And the product mix here, the growth in higher margin products that they offer resulted in an increase of substantial off a small sales increase, a substantial increase in margin and a substantial increase in earnings. And the market just loves it. There's no getting around it. Great quarter for them.

Yeah. One of the things I thought was interesting away from these credits, which I don't think that's a business. I'm sorry, I just don't. That's not an actual. That's getting credits and selling them. And I get that you can do that, but it seems like a stunt to me is these other businesses, it's sort of like software and services for Apple Right. You're looking like that. They have other things that are growing more importantly, and that's where they really need to focus. I do think all this robotaxi stuff is jazz hands right now because there's so many competitors and I don't think they'll do well in this area. I don't believe it's going to grow 20, 30%, but he could push me wrong. But it doesn't seem like, given how competitive the market is. But I think this is not. You're right. This is not a car company. It's something else. It's not what he's saying it is, which is an AI company. It is the energy stuff where they're way ahead of people. That is where they're justifiably way ahead of everybody else and where they should take advantage of things. Meanwhile, the company Behind Blade Runner 2049 has sued Elon Musk for copyright infringement, saying Musk illegally used imagery from the film to promote Tesla Robo taxis.

I don't think he cares. He doesn't care about lawsuits. He doesn't. The same thing on the legal front with the DOJ warning his pact that the million dollar giveaway may violate federal law. As we said last week, he does not care and he's not going to get in trouble for it. And he knows this. And so he's taking a calculated risk with both Trump and using these im is that he can drag them through courts forever and eventually no one's going to get anything for it. And he doesn't lose. And he benefited from it. And this is his playbook every single time. For people who get all up and all like, can you believe he did that? He does it all. He's done it throughout his career.

Yeah, agreed. I don't have anything to add to that.

Yeah. In other earnings, Starbucks posted. This was interesting. Preliminary quarterly results showing yet another fall in sales as the company attempts to switch its strategy. By the way, a company that has not changed that experience is the same as it was 10 years ago when you go into one of their stores, except for more digital, I guess. Preliminary net sales fell 3% to $9.1 billion. The same store sales fell 7%. The company's new CEO, Brian Niccol, who comes from Chipotle, said he plans to fundamentally change strategy. He fundamentally has to talk a little bit. Nickel is off a six year run at Chipotle where the stock Price increased about 800% since he took over in 2018, when it was in real trouble for issues around health, safety which is all over the food market right now. McDonald's and other companies. But this is a very sharp and canny executive. This is a product that hasn't changed at all. Speaking of not having other revenue streams or other offerings or feeling like it's.

Fresh, I kept wondering every single financial advisor in the world, their first piece of advice on how to start building economic security is they say stop going to Starbucks, stop buying those six and seven dollar lattes. And if you do two a day at 70, that's 200 a, that's 3,000 bucks a year on coffee. And if you, that, I mean essentially if you just brought your own coffee to work from the age of 22 and invested all the money you spent on coffee and put it into low cost index funds, you'd have a couple million bucks by the time you were our age. I wonder how many are actually listening to your notion is the right one. Starbucks has a very 2000 late image feel to it right now. I go to the one in Soho sometimes and I just don't know if I walked in there and I walked out. It's how I feel about grocery stores. You know, grocery stores, you feel like you're in 1990.

Except Wegmans, they do a great job.

By the way, the one that got away was one of the heiresses to the Wegman fortune.

You told me that once again, I don't believe you. It's like Patty Stonecipher once again.

Oh no, no, no. We were very much in love. We're very much in love. I mean not as, not as intense and deep a relationship as my relationship with Patty or Emily Rata Kawasaki. But no, like a wonderful woman. She was a doctor anyway.

So what would you do here? What's to be done? Maybe things just die. Like remember the limited, like it just died. It's just, we're done with that.

No, this is an amazing business. It's just, I think, look, at the end of the day they probably need to close 20 to 30% of their stores and 50% of their stores in China. Their sales were down 14% in China. Their strategy, I remember them saying that when we open up, when we open, the more Starbucks we own, the bigger the sales in every store. It's not countable. I mean they've just, their growth has just been figure out a model and expand it. This is a great opportunity for an operator with cloud cover to come in and say it's going to be a smaller, much more profitable business. And I'm sure I would think and Again, I love this idea of a fallen angels basket of stocks, but they have good ip. It is a great brand and it'd be a lot of fun to just kind of go through over the next next three, five, seven years as leases expire and just say, we're going to be a smaller company, but we're going to get rid of the non profitable. The non profitable stores. It's a franchise. It's still a big part of people's life.

And the reality is the best business in the world is to sell an addictive product. And caffeine is.

So here's my advice. Make better coffee. It sucks. Like now you don't like their coffee.

You don't like Starbucks.

I don't. I think it's fine. Amanda refuses to go there, but I'm coming around because there's so many good, innovative coffee places that are cheaper.

Amanda's just traumatized by your I Surrender wardrobe. See how I brought it back to an earlier point in the conversation?

I see you brought it back. But here's interesting. I've always had amazingly hot girlfriends. How did that happen?

Okay, hold on. Because you're rich now. Now the same reason why I get to sleep with hot women. Because daddy stands on his wallet and he looks pretty attractive?

No, because we're interesting.

Oh, yeah, that's it.

And just dead sexy people is what we are in our own unsexy way. No, that's correct. Because we like songs like Que Sera Sera.

You become one of these pathetic anchors who leaves this chair and starts doing like some weird show somewhere. All of a sudden Amanda's like, I've outgrown you. We don't have any shared values anymore. Anymore.

No, she's. It's only up and to the right for Kara Swisher the rest of her life. I'm sorry to tell you that.

But in any case, I'm up into the mic. Did she ask about me? Did she ask about me?

Oh, God, you're never. Never. I'm gonna find her somehow. You know who recently texted me, who's a fan of ours? Of mine? Really? Drew Barrymore.

Oh, she's lovely.

She picked my book.

I saw her at my favorite restaurant, Black Eyed Susan's in Nantucket. She's actually very pretty.

Yeah, she's lovely. Lovely.

Little too emotional, a little too feeling for me. I couldn't deal with all that.

Stop it. She's given us more entertainment.

True Barrymore.

Value for her life. She has been in so many movies that have been. And she deserves everything she gets.

So many movies that are so great. Name three.

Oh, my God, all of them. The Wedding singer, Charlie's Angels, E.T.

I'M sorry. Hold on. Charlie's Angels.

I love Charlie's Angels. I'm sorry. I love it. That makes me laugh.

Sure. You've lost all credibility.

I love it. It makes me laugh. Everything is. She's been in so many movies that are so good.

I just like that she tried to break the writer's strike. I love that she's a scab. Join me. Drew, please.

Stop it. Don't even start. Don't insult.

I don't think that's an insult.

In any case, we are all over.

The map right now.

Starbucks. You need to make better coffee. There's cheaper, better coffee everywhere else. It costs too much for the shitty coffee you serve. And I can get a better thing from a lovely little store that's charming. That's my feeling.

I like Le Colombe. What are your favorites?

This interesting one is Blank street around you. It started small and now it's going all over the place. Their coffee is quite good, but I usually go to individual coffee shops because they're the same price and it's a small business. I like that better. I tend to go to those.

I'm sorry. Castle Christmas. The stand in. Miss, you already blended. Big miracle. Going the distance. Everyone's fine. Whip it. Should I continue here? Lucky you.

I like Dunkin Donuts. I'll tell you, I like Dunkin Donuts. They make great.

These are Drew Barrymore movies that I'm reading.

Listen. All right, we're done with that. Stop insulting her.

Duplex. They hit duplex. She does seem nice. I'll give her that.

But I like Dunkin Donuts. I would say that's the finest coffee in the land. For a low price. Much lower price. And they have donuts.

Oh, she was in altered state. She must have been, like, two years old.

Okay, yes, she. Remember, she played the. She was like the fire starter. Wasn't she in Fire Starter?

Yeah, she. As a. As a little kid. Also an E.T. she was great in E.T.

Come on. More entertainment value per pound.

She was in that hit Never Been Kissed.

Never Been Kissed was really good.

What about the movie Home Fries she was in? She's been in a lot of movies.

I'm just talking about pure fun entertainment. Drew Behrman has delivered. I'm sorry? She's delivered for us. She has?

Yeah. People like her TV show.

I'm just saying she's delivered, and a lot of people haven't delivered Pound for pound. I'm sorry, they just haven't.

Oh, you win. You win.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, Drew.

I want to see her most recent film for Netflix, A Castle for Christmas. Is that like right up there with We Bought a Zoo?

You know what? Listen to me. Pound for pound, I'm not going to get you near him when we go out. We're not going to let you him near you. Anyway, I. I've introduced you to Megan Rapinoe and all these lovely, amazing pound for pound. Great values.

No, I'm not into the straight women. I'm into the. I'm into the lesbians now.

I know, but great value, that's my new thing. If you're pound for pound, you're great. The value you add is how I do it.

It's based on weight?

No, just as an expression. Pound for pound. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Kamala Harris's not so secret supporters and donors and a listener mail question about teaching kids how to negotiate. Oh, Scott, you'll like that one.

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Scott, we're back with our second big story as the podcast selection continues, both presidential candidates have big interviews coming up this week. Former President Donald Trump will be talking to Joe Rogan on Friday as part of a push to win over young men voters. Vice President Kamal Harris, who should go under Joe Rogan, is headed to Houston, where she'll be sitting down with Brene Brown. And this just in. The Washington Post is reporting that Beyonce is expected to appear with Harris in Houston on Friday. That's where Beyonce's from. These podcast interviews generate buzz.

Is Diddy having a Barty Diddy?

But do they matter? We think they do. You have called it the year of the podcast. The USA Today poll found that fewer than 30% of respondents have listened to either candidate on popular podcasts but those who listen say they're more likely to vote for Trump after those appearances than Harri said. There was a really interesting CNN group of really smart voters for the first time, undecided voters. I thought they were very thoughtful who were talking about her appearance on cnn. I think it does make an impact, maybe in a small way. What do you think of these appearances? And of course, Elon Musk, really, he's jumping around and doing events.

Look, this is exactly the right strategy. Go on huge forecasts. It's exactly the wrong execution. Trump should be with Brene Brown. He needs to soften his image. She has a very thoughtful, feminine feel to herself. She absolutely should be on Rogan. She needs to appeal to young men. So they're both going. They're both playing defense. They're both going to where they're already loved. I just don't. This is genius. They just got the podcast mixed up.

Oh, I like that idea. That's interesting. That's an interesting. You're right. You're right. In a lot of ways. She definitely should go on Rogan. No question she'd have gone on first. Anyway. Another thing that's getting a lot of traction, actually. A lot of polls are showing this. Trump's former chief of staff, John Kelly spoke to the New York Times this week warning that Trump met the definition of a fascist, would rule like a dictator, and no conception of law. He was his longest chief of staff. Kelly also told the Times, the Atlantic that Trump had spoken positively of Hitler several times. And General Mark Milley, former chairman of the Jordan Chiefs, was quoted in Bob Wardrobe's new book calling Trump a fascist to the core. Kamala Harris was asked about this by Anderson Cooper at CNN's town hall on Wednesday night. She hasn't really leaned into this as much, and now she is. Let's listen. You've quoted General Milley calling Donald Trump a fascist.

You yourself have not used that word to describe him.

Let me ask you tonight, do you think Donald Trump is a fascist? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And I. And I also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted. We've known about these dictator oscillations for a while, but again, do you think his supporters care? I don't think they do. Harris is also set to give her campaign's closing argument next week at the Ellipse in D.C. at the site of Donald Trump's speech on January 6, 2021. I thought that a pretty fantastic idea. So what do you think of these? Whether it Matters or not, this seems to be sinking in a little bit more this Hitler stuff. And by the way, in a personal note, threads kicked off all these people, including my wife Amanda for saying they don't like Hitler. It was crazy. And then they fixed it really quickly, said it was a mistake and an error. But Amanda just said Hitler's not a good guy and she got kicked off.

The algorithm, picked up Hitler and kicked her off.

I get it. But what a mistake. What a fuck up that was. Anyway, what do you think about this, these topics?

Well, I just like I can't imagine anyone, any organization that's getting more advice than the Trump or the heiress campaigns right now. And I think when I think just I don't like the name calling, I think the go to on stuff like this is one, well, okay, I'm not going to get into name calling. But basically fascism is the following. The definition of fascism is it really has three supporting pillars. One, extreme nationalism, two, the demonization of immigrants and three, a refusal to object to violence against her enemies. And let's go through all three of those and she could have provided examples of how he demonizes immigrants, how this isolationism and this notion that we are somehow this radical nationalism verging on bigotry. And also at RA rallies he refuses to condemn violence, whether it's against Harlem. I just think they could have done better rather than getting. Because I think most people, quite frankly, if you ask them to define what a fascist is, I don't think they could. So I think it was a missed opportunity. I don't think they should engage in name calling. And generally speaking, I think the biggest mistake the Harris campaign is mismaking right now is let surrogates in the media column names.

What she needs to do is say, I am proposing. I have the one policy recommendation that I will enact within 100 days that will have more impact on your life than anything we're talking about here. And that is I'm going to expand Medicare coverage such that your parent can die at home and your parent, your aging parent can have some dignity. And I have figured out a way such that in one of the most sensitive, upsetting parts of the life of the sandwich generation and an increasing population of older people such that your mom or your father, we're both going through this. So many people are affected by this. She needs to foot to a real policies that affect people because there are millions of people struggling with this that might go, you know, that really is going to tangibly make my life better. But instead like do you think he's a fascist? I mean. Oh, okay, yeah, I agree.

I agree. Here's the thing. These voters, I was really intrigued by. I usually hate these panels of voters, but incredibly thoughtful people. Like, I was sort of, like, amazed that they were like, look, we don't like the name calling. I gotta know what they're gonna do. I know Donald Trump's a jerk. I don't wanna vote for him, but what is she gonna do? It was really interesting, each one of these people, and they all were like, I like her. I like her. I think she's very competent. And she made the smart move of talking to a lot of people afterwards, Right? And the min meet her, they like her. Right. It was interesting. And I thought they were. They were like, I'd like to. I'd like to not. I know he's a fascist. Thank you. Like, I got that. Like, but what is what. The policies were very important to voters more than. I think politicians speak down to the smart, the voters and try to appeal to the least of among us versus the best among us, who are more motivated anyway. So this is interesting. Speaking of this, a number of major donors have made their political affiliations clear, but several big names are supporting Harris and keeping quiet about it.

Jamie Dimon has privately told associates. Which means he wanted it to get out honestly, that he's backing Harris. Come on. He privately told him, and oops, it got out. Jamie Dimon, stop it. You're making me exhausted. Despite publicly praising Trump, he's trying to sort of keep his. Either side wins, I win. That's Jamie Dimon to a T. And Bill Gates has donated $50 million to a nonprofit supporting Harris's run, according to New York Times. When I talked to Bill Ehrsman, he wouldn't say directly he was voting for, but he did give a hint. Of course. Let's listen. It's pretty tense right now. It's still. And it's been tense for a couple of years out of COVID We're still sort of not recovered from that. And a lot. A lot of people aren't. How do you. What. What is your mood right now?

Well, you know, ask me on November 6th whether climate change is real or not.

So I'm guessing who you're voting for.

But you can definitely guess where my energy is going.

Yeah, he's giving money. He absolutely is a supporter. Why are they doing this? It's so weird. It's so dumb.

When you say doing this, what do you mean? What's this?

They're like Saying I'm for her, but not. I can't say it publicly. What is that look?

To me, that's quintessential Bill Gates. When you become a partisan, it just turns people off. And I'm not sure that everybody needs to know your political views at the same time. You don't need to hide them. And that's what he's doing. I think he's saying, look, if you're really interested, you can figure out who I'm voting for. But I'm not gonna get out there and be overtly political. I think that's probably a pretty good stance for someone with as big a profile. I think Bill Gates is a gift. I think he's a great model for billionaires.

He certainly shifted.

Yeah, he's matured.

He really has shifted in a very positive way.

Instead of trying. Trying to put a dildo on Mars, he's like, how do I build a toilet to stop dysentery and infection in poor markets? I mean, he's doing real work.

I would agree.

He's decided. Here's an idea. Rather than trying to colonize Mars, I'm going to try and make this place a little bit more fucking inhabitable or habitable.

Or instead of getting on stage and jumping up and down like a dipshit, which is what Ted Waltz called Elon Musk, which made me laugh. Kind of the perfect word for him. He doesn't. You're right. He's just putting them on money to it.

Bill Gates, I would agree.

I don't really care if Jamie D. Jamie Dime did just say he was for Harris. It doesn't matter how he does. It doesn't matter. Who cares?

Yeah. And Jamie. I hope Jamie gets a role.

Treasury Secretary.

Yeah. In either administration. He's a really thoughtful guy. He's a great manager. I think he's a really good leader. He's good looking, which I think is important.

Of course.

He look.

His hair is spectacular.

Very handsome guy.

Handsome.

He's a very handsome guy.

That's how we decide to Treasury Secretary.

He's a great leader. He's built an unbelievable company.

He has. That's for sure. And he tells people about it too. And he will tell you that and have his surrogates tell you that.

Like we don't. Because we're so bashful about our success.

That's true. But we're more explicit and love me.

I heard you on a podcast. Let me see.

Speaking of secretive donors, a network of GOP donors, conservative billionaires have been fueling the stop the steal effort. According to the Wall Street Journal, what a surprise. These donors have given more than $140 million to nearly 50 loosely connected groups working for so called election integrity. By the way, every time you see Elaine U l I n penny on a box, it's them. That's who's that? Your box is funding election. Stop the steal stuff. Tactics include trying to slow down the vote count, burying officials and paperwork, electing candidates at the state and local levels to support this effort. Not even slightly surprised for these people, of course they're doing it. Speaking of secretive.

Yeah, I don't, I don't. No comment. What you said is right. I have nothing to add.

Don't use ulain boxes. That's my thing. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener. Her question. The question comes in via voicemail. Let's listen.

Hi, Scott. Hi, Kara. This is Ken from Chicago. I recently had a friend comment that haggling is a sign that the free market isn't rational. And I fire back that haggling in fact plays an extremely important part by providing feedback to the seller, it defines what is valued or what's overpriced customers feedback about prices or features of the gold mine. But haggling is often looked down on in western culture, in my opinion. My question is should I or how can I teach my kids how to effectively haggle and negotiate outside of sending them into a car dealership? Thanks. Bye.

Bye. I love the word haggle. I don't use it enough. Haggling. We haggle all the time, don't we? We're hagglers.

We don't really haggle. We bicker. We don't really haggle.

Bicker. I like to. Let's haggle more. Okay.

All right.

It'll keep our relationship fresh and exciting. What tell this is, your area of expertise is you're a big good. I often. Just so you know, Scott and I are in business together and I let him do the haggling, as they say. Like I think of. He's really good at it and I'm way too, too explicit. So Scott, take this one.

Well, I mean there's semantics around negotiating. So I wouldn't call it haggling. I call it negotiating. And quite frankly, your kids, if they have a phone or they have allowance, they're going to start figuring out how to negotiate with you. And I think negotiating with your parents and push and pull and learning. My son's very emotionally manipulative. He'll say, dad, I want to go to put shack with my friends, and I thought you could meet me there because it'd be some great hang time. And he knows that, like I want nothing more than to hang with my kids. So he throws in that he wants to go to P. You know, he's. He's already learning how to negotiate. Right. Haggling usually is more a narrower part of it where you're talking about haggling with. Usually in a commercial setting, someone at a bazaar, or you're saying, I'll pay you 10 bucks for this, you know, for this item versus 12, versus 12. And you haggle back and forth. And you know that. I think that's actually an interesting process. I actually tagged my kids. We were at a market once, and I gave them each some money and said, go see, I want both you.

They were all selling the same thing and they both wanted the same thing. I'm like, you go to. I want to see who can find this item for the least. And they said. And I said, and by the way, you can offer them less. You can say, would you take seven bucks for it? And it's embarrassing and it's hard. It's also something that I think women aren't as good at as men. And men are trained to be more aggressive. They're more risk aggressive. So men are more willing to be embarrassed. It's embarrassing to haggle. Well, I'll give you nine bucks. It's much cooler to just pay list. It's easier. No one gets offended. There's no haggling. The ability to haggle, the ability to say, no, I want 14%, not 9% raise is really important. And going more broadly just to negotiating, and it took me 40 years to figure. Figure this out. There's only really two things you need to remember about negotiating. And the first is don't make it win or lose, make it. You know, how do we figure this out together? I would really like to make this work. I'd really like to work with you.

I think this would be good for both of us. And then the most important thing is you have to always show a credible willingness to walk away. And that is. I was in a negotiation this morning with something we're involved in. And I said they kind of threw up some objections. And I said, well, first off, there just may not be a fit here, but we'll still figure out ways to work together. But unless they believe there's a chance you might walk away and that you're willing to, you're never going to get the best deal. But don't make it win, lose, don't make it emotional. Constantly talk about how you would like to make this happen. The other sort of Jedi mind trick that I learned recently that I think is really important, negotiation is when they. When someone says, puts forward an objection to repeat back, that you hear their concern. Oh, you're worried. You know, you're worried that. Or you believe that we should do this because of X. Am I hearing you correctly? And supposedly that does something to people's brain where when they feel heard, they do. They don't. They're more inclined to meet you halfway.

So. But I think haggling and negotiation is incredibly important for young people to learn. Unfortunately, I think men are better at it and it suppresses women's wages in certain professional contexts.

Does I have to say, from being a boss, I watched it. I watched an incompetent person ask for more, and a woman who deserves more asks for less. Somehow. It was really interesting. You know, there's an overall thing. But in general, you're right. Having managed, people, especially incredibly incompetent men tend to really value themselves rather high. That was fascinating to me. I was always like, actually want to fire you and you're asking for more money. Interesting. Interesting gambit. Which was always interesting. I guess the word haggling is not the right word. You're right. I'm very explicit. No, I'll have this. And then they're like, what about this? I'm like, no, this is what I want. I always go in knowing what I want. And so I don't usually back down from that. I'm like, well, then I'll go. And I actually mean it. And I think when you do that, you have to mean what you say and say what you mean. I find that. I find being explicit rather freeing.

Also, the best way to negotiate is to have another offer. Every.

Yes.

Every three to five years at nyu, which I love, I would return a call from a Cornell or a Columbia, and I'd say, sure, I'm happy to speak to anybody. And I'd say, can you give me just an indicative sense of what the terms would look like? And then I go to my dean and I say, this is my market worth. I don't want to leave. I want to stay here. I just want you to match it. You don't need. Need to beat it. Nothing helps a negotiation like multiple bidders. And basically, the only reason you hire an agent or an investment banker is such that they can credibly lie and give the illusion there are multiple bidders. All trying to rent your time or buy your company. That is basically what they do. Because the illusion of scarcity. The only way you get really what you either deserve or the maximum is people start credibly going, well, what would we have paid, Kara? Or what would we have paid for this company the day after we lose it to someone else? Let's pretend there's a very real possibility we're going to lose this person or this deal that gets people to where they're at, what they're actually willing to pay.

So I hate to say it, but without being threatening, without being angry, just always demonstrate a credible willingness to leave or not do the deal without being an asshole. Without. I'm quitting or I'm going to Fox or whatever. No, just. Okay, maybe there isn't a fit here. Just say that up front, and it's not going to be the end of the world for both of us.

Can I. A last question? Which are your son's one on that haggling thing you made them do?

I don't even remember. I think it was the. The younger one's much craftier. The younger one is much more. Yeah, he's much more aggressive.

Yeah. Alex wins all those things because, like, Louie's so nice. He's like, okay, whatever.

Louie's a sociable. Louie's like, hey, man, you could probably use this more than me. I'll give you 12 bucks. Even though he asked for 10. I see Louis being much more.

Yes, that's exactly what Louis is. Alex is like, no, he's always. I love that. I love that. Alex, he's always like, the angles. He's got the angles. He's always looking at the. He's such a math person. And Claire is quite good at it. And I go, would you like this? She goes, how about two?

Oh, and another. I mean, I'm not. I'm now saying, negotiating simple. I'm remembering all these things, something I didn't learn till I was. Till I got lot older. It's okay to leave a little bit on the table. It's okay to say, okay, this is important to you. You want them to feel like at least on a couple dimensions of the deal that they want, and to just say, okay, yeah, that's fine. I wanted this, but this seems important to you or not only that, it's okay to leave a little bit of cabbage on the table. It's okay. That's fine.

I think that's the fatal flow of Donald Trump. Ultimately. He doesn't do that. He wants you to he wants to fuck you in a way that's really that ultimately adds up eventually. Maybe not in this lifetime. Anyway, for the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's Threads poll. The question this week is who would make a better Halloween costume, Kara or Scott? Oh, obviously, Scott bonus points. If you send us your pictures dressed up as one of us, we get a lot of that that's interesting or someone interesting that we'll find interesting. Go to our Threads account ivot Podcast Official to vote.

What's your Halloween costume this year?

I'm going as Kara Swisher again, as I do every year. It's really great, you know, I've given up. I've given up. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own you would like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-Pivot all right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

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Yeah. But you didn't ask me. You keep forgetting when I ask you questions, I'm not interested in you. I just want you to ask me.

Oh, that's. I forgot. You know what? I just thought of that as I was going into the commercial break.

Last year I went as Deadpool after the fire. I had a makeup artist do my scar. I looked amazing.

You did.

This year I'm going. It's not. The costume isn't as good, but it's kind of funny. I'm going as Richard Simmons, which I'm really excited.

Oh, wow. I mean, shorty shorts.

I have these gold, very short dolphin shorts.

Oh, wow.

But here's the problem.

I think that's the problem seeing you in shorty shorts. But go ahead.

That's where I would really kick in as a woman. I'd have amazing legs if I were a woman. Anyways, the. God. Can you imagine what beautiful children I'd have with that center from the Minnesota Links? She and I would have spectacular children.

Okay.

Anyways. Oh, my God. I found out Tom Selleck in the first season of Magnum PI Was the exact same height and weight as me. He was 6 2, 190. But I look much different in shorts than him. And I just can't figure it out. I just can't figure it Out.

Are you wearing the wig? You're wearing the wig.

Oh, come on.

Come on.

Halloween. How could you have invented a better holiday for me?

I know.

I get to wear a wig and women dress up.

Yep.

Oh, my God. Let's have Halloween every month.

I know you love to. You love a costume. You really go all out. I do not. I do not. I don't like it at all. I don't like it at all.

I love Halloween. Oh, I love it. I absolutely. And by the way, just do me a favor when. Because you're going into yourself, when people ask you what you're supposed to be, look at them and begin to cry and say, I was supposed to be a lot of things. That's good.

That is good. I love it. Oh, thank you. I finally have an answer. Have an answer. All right, let's hear a prediction now.

Okay, so look, I don't think this is going to come as a shocker in anybody, but I am officially endorsing Harris Walls for president. Vice President. And my prediction is that a Harris administration would be much better for young men. And I believe that young men are some of the last available swing voters because they don't traditionally vote. When they get excited decided, they vote. They almost always. Or they disproportionately vote, at least until recently for Democrats. So I believe the news kind of the swing voters are young men. And this is why I think young men would be better served voting for Vice President Harris. And then I encourage them to do so. And that is, I think everybody needs a code, whether it's from your religion, whether it's from the armed services, whether it's from your company. Everybody needs kind of an anchor to hold onto and guide the millions of decisions they have to make in a conflict, complicated world. And I increasingly believe that young men can call on or what I'm hoping they can develop as a new code is a modern form of masculinity. And those three things are the following.

Being a provider, a protector, and a procreator. And I want to go through each of these and why I believe the Harris administration and policies would enable men to foot to those.

I like this, by the way. The Washington Post has yet to make one. Jeff Bezos, get off your ass and make one. But go ahead. I love that you're doing this.

There you go. Okay, so provider. I think a decent place for any man to start is to take economic responsibility for his household. Now, that doesn't mean that you're going to get in the way of your wife. Or your partner who might be better at that money thing. When my partner was a Goldman Sachs and making more money than me, I tried to pick up the slack at home and not be threatened by it. And that is also taking economic responsibility. But a good starting point is that recognizing three in four women see economic viability as key to a mate. It's only one in four men. About women, unfortunately, I'm not talking about the way the world should be, but the way it is. Men are disproportionately evaluated on their economic viability. You need to be a provider. And under the Harris administration, you're talking about an economic strategy that everyone from Goldman Sachs to basically every living Nobel Prize winner, economics is going to say, winner is going to result in greater growth. And with the Trump administration, as a young man, you are talking about what will effectively be the greatest tax increase in history on you.

And. And it's the following. It'll be a deficit that will be triple than what would be under the Harris administration. Why is the deficit the biggest tax in history on you? Because Garrison Scott Galloway will not be alive to pay back that deficit. You will have to pay it back. So what young people haven't connected the dots on is that deficit spending is nothing but a tax on them, such that I can have champagne and cocaine. Now you're going to have to pay it back, not me. There are a variety of different economic plans, whether it's a house housing credit, whether it's loans for small businesses that are meant to put more money in the pockets of young people, specifically young men, and enable you to be a better provider protector. Your default setting as a man should be one of protection. You don't need to understand the nuance around illegal or undocumented workers, but when you see them being demonized, your default setting should be to move to protection. You don't need to understand or agree with the trans community. But when you see them being demonized, you're default should be as a protector.

Real men break up fights and bars. They don't start them. Real men protect their country. They don't shitpost it. Harrison Walls have a much greater default setting around protection. And I especially think Vice President Walls presents a wonderful image as a man being a protector. And that is. And I love the story of him hearing about the LGBT community at his high school feeling bullied and him enacting the football team to come to their aid. That is exactly what it means to be a man, to be a protector. And then finally, procreator. The most rewarding thing in life. And I'm not saying you have to do this to be happy, but the most rewarding thing I know in your life, Kara, and in my life has been raising children with a competent, loving partner. And I did not. When I saw my partner, the mother of my children, at the Raleigh hotel at the pool, I was not thinking that she'd be great at buying distressed properties and fixing them up, or she'd be a good person to save for a 401k. I had one thought, and that is I would really, really like to have sex with this person.

And wanting to have sex with women and being successful at it and figuring out the nuance and the skills and the strength and the humor and showering and enduring the rejection and being funny and being kind such that you can have sex with women is a wonderful thing. And it's something you should be proud of. And your ability, your ability to be attractive to women will be easier under a Harris administration. And if I did a survey around, would young men like to have more or less, less sex? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them would say, I would like to have more sex. And if you want to have more sex, if you want to have more sex, then we absolutely need to cauterize, reject, and turn around this ridiculous notion that women are going to have their bodily autonomy taken. Because if you want to have random sex, and let's be clear, the majority of relationships involve, at some point, maybe a little bit of alcohol and a little bit of random sex. If the woman is thinking about random sex and then says, you know what? I might be in an emergency room parking lot unable to terminate a pregnancy, even if I have sepsis because the doctor might go to jail if I have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, both you and her are going to be economically disabled.

The fastest way to have less sex is to let more people get on the Supreme Court and to take away a woman's bodily autonomy. So, guys, you want to get laid more, make sure women have bodily autonomy. Let's review, okay? Your ability to a provider. I'm very serious about this shit. I think sex is a wonderful thing. And the notion young people are having less sex, it is terrible. And it is a wonderful thing. And the notion that you and your partner have to be much more thoughtful and scared of actually having sex is terrible for everybody. One, your ability to be a provider. Economic policies that make it easier for you to be economically responsible for your household. Two, a default setting around being a provider. And through your Ability to form a family at your pace with economic responsibility through bodily autonomy. All of these add up to Vice President Harris being nominated and elected for our president. So if you are a young man, I would encourage you to lean into your code around masculinity, and that code leads to one place, and that is a Harris administration.

Wow. That is. I have not heard that one. If you want to have sex, vote Harris. I like it. That's what we're saying, correct?

There you go.

If I had to boil it down. All right, that's an interesting and novel thing. I just like her. That's why I'm voting for her. So I just like her. I like him. And I'm so fucking sick of the way these tech. The. The toxic Tech Bros. Which are affiliated with Trump. I. I hate this. Toxicity has to end. That's my thing. So that's just it. But I like. If you want to have sex, vote Harris. I think it's a compelling, compelling argument, and I think she should. At the Ellipse, when she is there, she said, no more insurrection. A lot more sex. Thank you, Scott Galloway.

100%.

That would be it.

100%. It's a wonderful thing. Young people need to have more of it.

I understand that. And for more, I have to say, pound for pound, you give a lot of really good content, Scott Galloway. Just not as much as Drew Barrymore.

But I don't look good in shorts.

Okay. No, but we'll see. We'll see. I'm sure a lot of that. Unfortunately for me. For more in the Kara and Scott universe this week, which is growing. It's growing, it's expanding. We're expanding. Scott, you talked about perseverance with the famous perseverance writer Angela Duckworth over at the Profg Pod. Let's listen to a clip of that. Where does that inner self talk come from that says, you know, I'll show you? Right? Because I think if there was one phrase that I have heard over and over again in interviews of the grittiest people, it's that when they describe confronting a major challenge, especially. Especially when they're doubted, right? And someone else tells them, like, well, you can't do this. You know, there is this rage, this, like, voice that says, I'll show you. And my theory is that being in one challenging situation after another is not enough to give you the voice that says, I'll show you. Somewhere, there has to be support. I think I've seen it too often that people who are in challenging situations without support, you know, are not the ones to get up again, dust themselves off, like learn something, you know, come back stronger than they were before.

I'll show you I, that's, that's guided everything in my life. I'll show you I do. That's. I have to say, I love, I love her. I love Angela Duckworth and she wrote Grit, obviously, but I'll show you has been a big fucking. Really? Uh huh. Okay, okay, okay. That's what I do. I like it.

There you go.

Yeah, we're both gritty, I think, in a lot of ways. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot and obviously more news. We are bearing, bearing down on the election. It'll be a week from Tuesday. Incredible. Incredible. When we come back anyway, please read us out.

Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jatat engineered this episode. Thanks also to Dubose, Ms. Vario and Dan Schulon. Nishak Kur Wallace, Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. What is a good default code protector provider? Procreator. Thanks to Huntress for their support. Keeping your data safe is important. However, if you're a small business owner, then protecting the information of yourself, your company and your workers is vital. In comes Huntress. Huntress is where fully managed cybersecurity meets human expertise. They offer a revolutionary approach to managed security that isn't all about tech. It's about real people providing real defense when threats arise or issues occur. Their team of seasoned cyber experts is ready 20, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. For support, visit Huntress.com Vox to start a free trial or learn more.

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