Transcript of Davos Drama, DOGE's Social Security Scandal, and Netflix Goes All-Cash for Warner Bros

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Unfortunately, Cara, my iPhone When I opened it, the Apple Face ID still works.

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I just scooped out my litter, and Scott is in swanky Switzerland. This is the state of our relationship.

I was with your first wife just a few minutes ago.

I heard she's swanning around there. How's it going?

Yeah, she's one of my favorite things, this thing called She-Know's.

Oh, female quotient.

They invite me because they know dudes will show up and they like to have dudes at their stuff.

That's just what women want. But go ahead.

Well, I think it is actually. I think they want to reach across the aisle, so to speak. Or I think they want to do a reach around. Oh, God. My mind is a blank now.

Okay, you're in Davos.

Yeah, that's where I am.

And by the way, you look fantastic, let me just say.

You know, unfortunately, Cara, my iPhone, when I opened it, the Apple Face ID still works. So Everyone's saying, You just look like you. I'm like, Well, that wasn't the fucking point.

Yeah, it's subtle. I can see the difference.

I'm here. I don't know if you can see this equivalent. If days in, I had a branch in Davos, I'd be here, but it's only $2,700 a night. If Trump gives another speech, the dollar is going to crash and it's going to be $6,000 a night, so I should probably go check in now like it's Weimar, Germany, or check out.

Well, before we start talking about Davos- I think you would hate it I can't even imagine. I do hate it here. Last time I was there with Megan when I was married to her. Like you, she got one of those weird global leaders of Tomorrow's yesterday, whatever, the Yon or Young entrepreneurs. This was a million years ago, and I went as a wife, and I hated every fucking second of it. I'm sure it's worse now.

You know what it is? It's the least sexy place. It's the least sexy gathering in the world. It's like at the sex appeal of a Marriott lobby. It It's rough here.

Give me an overview. Besides, let me just make a point. It's been 34 days since the deadline passed for the US Justice Department to release the Epstein files. I just want to note that just to add that in. But go ahead. Tell me, what's the vibe in the place where they pretend things are normal?

Okay, so first off, the last time I was here was 1999. I was here 26 years ago. I don't know if you know this about me, but I peaked early.

Similar time frame for Yeah, I was there 26 years ago.

The vibe then was- Hopeful. It was about the internet. America was about cooperation and consumerism. There was really optimism, like I want more. It was very consumery, if you will. Now I'd say the vibe is one AI. Everything's AI. I was one of these guys running around trying to pitch my startup red envelope or my e-commerce incubator to everybody. Now everyone's pitching everyone on AI startups. The The American brand, which is meant to be the operating system here, I think, is really about coercion and chaos right now. The vibe- And arrogance.

Arrogance is what I'm discussing.

It's even beyond arrogance. It's just being rude for no real reason.

Howard Lutnik was a particular moron on that topic, yelling it.

Yeah, and Christina Lagarde, she walked out on him. That was the big event here. But there is also the vibe here is very unsettled because For all the talk about Europe being a union, it's clearly still not a union. In my opinion, the strongest move would have been if somebody had actually read Mark Carny's speech and said, he just articulated how we all feel more powerfully than anyone in the European Union has done. We want him to give that speech. We want him to outline a series of things that we could do as a union of all Western nations, selling US treasuries, forming a trading zone outside of the US. They should have had all fucking 27 EU member leaders sitting behind Mark Harny. Instead, they just look like, Oh, the number sixth, the world's sixth, 11th, 28th, and the seven doors economy are angry at us. They clearly don't care.

All right. Okay. This is like you attacking the Dems. Explain what the Trump administration is doing there? Because let's talk about the bullies, not the bullied for a second. What is the vibe from a Latinic? Bessant looks like the man from Gray Poupon. He's excited to find Gray Poupon everywhere he goes. Never seen such a crash in reputation of that guy. But talk a little bit about that, the arrogance, because you see it bristling off of tech people. The Palantir CEO, once again, needs to stop talking quite so much. The only one that was interesting was Dario Amodi, who is still trying to piss off David Sacks, which I enjoy every day of the weekend, twice on Sunday. But what's the vibe from the US? It seemed absolutely, Fuck you. We're the man. I'm popular, Trump was saying, even though his polls are crashing here in the United States.

Yeah, I was at a dinner with Dario, it was a full class night. I don't know. The way I would describe the vibe is I don't even think it's... The business leaders, I still think, are really well respected People are still like, Hey, Anthropic, can you open a branch in Helsinki? And let's talk about Poland's economy. There's still, I think, a real, I don't know if it terms affection, but appreciation, because the bottom line is the American economy continues to grind on. One of the The Masters in the interest in finance stood up and said, Look, a distinctive of our political situation, and he talked about Anthropic. Anthropic is raising $10 billion or 50 billion at 300. There's seven companies in Europe worth $350 billion or more, and Anthropic started five years ago.

It's actually gaining a lot of ground in enterprise, too. But go ahead.

Yeah, it is. It's the success story maybe outside of Gemini and AI, I would argue, over the last 12 months. I feel like there's still a great deal of affection and want to work together. I would say that from the administration standpoint, their presence here, I think arrogance is the wrong word. I like the definition of stupid. You help others and hurt yourself. You're an artist or a philanthropist. You help yourself while hurting others. You're a bandit. You help others while helping yourself. You're intelligent. The definition of stupid is hurting others while you hurt yourself. Talking about how important it is for the US to own Iceland when you mean Greenland. Yeah, that was- You just look stupid. It's not going to happen. And he backed off, by That's the way. The big news, to be fair, he walked back, military action. He said, That's not going to happen. He did away with the terrorists he threatened earlier in the week. So we come across. Tako. We just come across. We're a baby with an AR-15 is how we come across right now.

Is it worth it for you to be there? You looked like you wanted to get out, and I needed to helicopter in and get you. But was it worth it? Is it worth it?

I'm name-dropping. I said no. Then Larry Fink called me and asked me to come and said, It was very nice to me and said, This will be a good audience for you. I got to give it to him. This is, according to people who've been here for 30 years, the best of us yet in terms of the quality or the power, I would say, of the people. Elon Musk felt left out. He's flying in this afternoon to give a speech. Heads of states, senators, the thing that embodied how powerful the people are. I literally saw Lindsay Graham walking around looking for someone to talk to. He looked lonely, and he was trying to find someone to talk to him. So everyone's here. And by the way, you want to hear serious vibe, serious juju, serious mojo, serious riz. Fucking Governor Newsom is walking around like he is the next President. And guess what? Everyone believes him. He has an entourage of people. I'm not exaggerating. It's like there's light shining on the guy. I walked down. I had one of those... This was a nice moment for me. I have a big ego like everyone else.

I walked down in the Congress Hall and there was a crowd of people around this guy. No matter how big the crowd is, you see him like he's fucking Rihanna standing on Arnold Schwarzenegger's shoulders. It's like God. It's like he's the chosen one. Then he stops and comes over, catches my eye, and he hugs me. I feel like one time this guy, the coolest guy in my junior high school, Andy Lauer, who I didn't think knew I was alive. I did a comedy sketch at the talent show on Laurel and Hardy, and he came up in a class and he's like, Gail, you're the funniest. And he high-fived me. For a day, I was the most important person I'd ever met. I'm so happy. It was like the cool kid high-fives you. Anyways, came over, hug me. Yeah, he told me.

He texted me. He texted me that he saw you. I'm just texting with everybody. I was like her, ringing Mark Benioff. I'm just texting everybody there.

You're literally stalking me. I sit down at dinner last night and the woman next to me was, Cara's talking to me. She knows we're sitting I'm like, How the fuck does she know we're sitting together? You're like the Stasi with Wi-Fi. They will text me.

They're like, Where are you? I'm like, as if I'm making quesadillas for my children and scooping cat litter.

But the highlight, I'm totally name dropping right now.

All right, go ahead.

I got to sit next to Sasha Baron Cohen, and I rolled with him after, and he and I went bar-hopping after. Oh, okay. I like that. He was picking up a friend, Katie Perry and Justin Trudeau. By the way, Justin Trudeau's skin, there's no way that guy was stressed in office. He looks like he's a world leader.

Now, you're happy. You're swanning. Anyways, I'm totally swanning. Let's talk about specifics. Hold on.

But Sasha goes, I'm going to this wine tasting thing, master the universe thing. You should come. He goes, Can I come in five minutes? He goes, Will you leave my name at the door? I'm like, Sasha, something tells me they're going to let you in. Anyways, that's my big celebrity thing.

Well, he's great. He's a great guy.

Super thoughtful. He understands AI.

I did one of my favorite interviews with him many years ago.

He said he was on with you.

Yeah, he's great. He said you interviewed him. He's so smart. He's so smart.

Middle-class Jewish kid from the suburbs of London.

But smart, really clever, and also really thoughtful. A lot of his stuff, if you look at it now, even if it's a satire, especially around the dictator, is spot on, like some of the stuff he wrote. Just so people know, a couple of things from their headlines, Donald Trump's backing off his threat to impose terrorist on Europe, saying there's now a framework for Greenland deal. There isn't a framework for Greenland. After meeting with NATO Secretary General, Trump said the solution, if consummated, would be great for the US and all NATO nations. There's probably more US bases. The idiot, he could have done it before. That announcement came just hours after Trump delivered his big speech at Davos, where he seemed to be gripping the podium as if it was to save his life, where he repeated his desire to acquire Greenland or Iceland, as you said, as he referred to it. The speech did not go over very well. He insulted and threatened our NATO allies, even though the White House was saying it was great. I think most people did not think so, but let's listen very quickly to give him a moment. We want a piece of ice for world protection, and they won't give it.

We've never asked for anything else, and we could have kept that piece of land, and we didn't. They have a choice. You can say yes, and we will be very appreciative, or you can say no, and we will remember. It's reminds me of my four-year-old Saul when he didn't get the correct- Like a mob boss, isn't it? I know, but it sounds like a toddler, actually, when Saul didn't get the Hot wheels he wanted. Trump also wasn't thrilled with Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carnegie, as he said, who gave a quote, a speech at Davos Tuesday, talking about the rupture in the world order. This was a speech to remember. It was so beautifully delivered. This guy is really top level in terms of delivering a speech. Let's listen to what he said.

We have a recognition of what's happening and a determination to act accordingly. We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation. It calls for honesty about the world as it is. We are taking the sign out of the window. We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn't mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy, but we believe that from the fracture, we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers, the countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and a most to gain from genuine cooperation.

Smart, not pearl clutching, not victiming. Cartier warned that the middle powers, it sounds like the middle kingdom, must act together because, if we're not at the table, we're on the menu. He's absolutely right. Contrast the two speeches. And by the way, Trump sent the world markets on a roller coaster the last few days as global stocks plunged early this week, following Trump threatening to slap Taros on Europe, which he didn't. The markets rallied once he pulled back. So talk a little bit about these two speeches and the impacts on the markets.

I think you summarize it. Kanye gave the speech to the conference, and supposedly, he wrote an himself. I mean, there's so many great lines in there. Nostalgia is not a strategy. This isn't a transformation. It's a rupture. One of the call signs, I think, for great leadership is forcefully yet dignified, and he was all of that. Of course, he tweaked Trump, and Trump mentioned his speech. He just came across as brambling and offensive for no reason. The general vibe here is that the Europeans Not with Americans. I still think they want to work with American companies. Yeah, I would agree. But with the American administration, they're just fed up. They're just like, Okay, we're just done with these guys. Howard Lutnik, I don't know if you heard this, Howard Lutnik was heckled at a dinner.

By D'Hallegore, by the way.

And these aren't these aren't protesters with blue hair holding signs. These are- Very polite people. These are state leaders who went to Swiss boarding schools and to Dalton and eat with the right fork. And they just listen to this guy talk about how globalization has not worked, and we've taken advantage of it. It's like, Okay, boss, we sell in the highest margin products in the world to these trading partners. They sell in a lower margin products. We have grown our economy faster than any economy in the world, with maybe exception of China over the last 20 or 30 years. Come again, why has globalization been bad for us? He just comes across as an ass.

He's a moron. He never was a high-level person on Wall Street, like a Besson. Besson wasn't the highest level, but he certainly was up there. But they both come off like morons, just morons. That's the word I think of every time he opens his mouth. He's such a thirsty fuck. That's really the way it goes. Anyway, so when are you coming back? How long are you going?

I was supposed to come up tomorrow. I'm going to come out tonight. I'm going to peace out. Davos feels like Vegas for me in the sense that it was great for two days, and now I just can't wait to get out of here.

You look like that at the beginning. I like your videos, though. They're nice.

They're lovely videos. I'm not raising money. I'm not running for office. Why am I here?

Why am I here? Why are you there?

That's why aren't you here? Well, you know why? Because Larry Fink called me and said, I want you to come, so you come. I met with the President of NMIU today, the Chancellor of Berkeley. I have a lot of friends here.

Yeah, you get to see people.

It's nice, But I'd rather be at home doing podcasts and hanging out with my boys. I'm finally getting to the point where it's like, Okay, where am I? I'm really trying to be more purposeful.

Well, you know what? It's good that you went, so you understand that. This is like going to the island of donkeys that Pinocchio went to. Now you know.

That's not the island I thought you were going to reference, but I'll stick with it.

And by the way, again, it's been a month since they were supposed to release the Epstein files, and we're going to keep a ticker on that one because they're violating the law, actually. But nothing.

What is your perception of it as an outsider? Sometimes it's hard to read the label from inside of the bottle.

Honestly, there's all manner of nonsense going on, and really violent nonsense, most perpetrated by largely the government. Going into houses whenever they feel like it. There was one photo that I actually was with my mom last night, and I put on CNN because I happened to be on CNN talking about Dari.

The guy in the bathrobe?

Yes, the guy. Not the bathroom. No, no. Yes, that too. But there was 10 ICE officers in front of a small house, looked like a very lovely house. There was no criminals inside. Each of them with an AK-47, like, mushed up near the front of the door. My mom was like, What are they doing? I was like, Oh, there's one possible illegal immigrant in there. She goes, Why do they need 10 guns? I'm like, That's an excellent question, Lucky. I think you're seeing a lot of visuals like that, a lot of gas being put out. Then that tiny Bovino, the guy who's running it there, there was the best thread of all time, I think where it said, They look like they drive a Subaru. He's just a cheap... He looks like a ridiculous tiny little man. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the revelation that, shocker, Doge misused social security data, which we told you they would. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other?

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Support for this show comes from Vanta. Customer trust can make or break your business, and the more your business grows, the more complex your security and compliance tools get. It can turn into chaos, and chaos isn't a security strategy. That's where Vanta comes in. Think of Vanta as your always on AI-powered security expert who scales with you. Vanta automates compliance, continuously monitors your controls, and gives you a single source of truth for compliance and risk. So whether you're a fast-growing startup like CURSOR or an enterprise like Snowflake, Vanta fits easily into your existing workflows so you can keep growing a company your customers can trust. Get started at vanta. Com/pivot. That's V-A-N-T-A. Com/pivot. Vanta. Com/pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. Doge employees shared social security data according to court filings. The filings show that the Political Advocacy Group contacted members of the DOGE Social Security Team asking for an analysis of state voter roles. One of the employees signed an agreement with the group who aimed to, quote, find evidence of voter fraud and overturn election results in certain states. No accountability. This is something we talked about on pivot, saying this is probably exactly what's happening.

It's very dangerous. This data is being shared. Who knows what else? I think at some point we will find out. It exactly what was taken and misused. And speaking of DOGE, Elon has dropped $10 million in support of a pro-Trump Republican, Kentucky, Senate candidate Nate Morris, who is running to succeed returning old person, Mitch McDonald. You He's trying to do this. He tried to do it in Wisconsin. I don't know what you think about the DOGE thing. I think it's just, of course, this is what they did, and hopefully, they will be prosecuted.

Yeah, I just want to backtrack for a second to ICE because- Well, we're going to get to ICE in a second.

We're going to have a whole section on this, but go ahead.

In terms of DOGE, you called this. I'm much more permissive in my data than you, and you said I would never give them my data. But unfortunately, the Social Security agents, you have to give them your data. I mean, the government The government knows your HIV status. Yes, exactly. The government knows how much money you have, what you do with your money, who you send it to. They have access to pretty much everything.

It's unique data that they need for these LLMs, by the way. Unique data.

I actually believe in the government's right to collect data, but I think you have to match that with really stringent laws that if you're going to violate that privacy, it has to be under threat of terrorism or something.

Well, they had no accountability here.

Well, Yeah, nothing's going to happen, right?

I don't think so. I don't believe that. I think there's going to be a forensics on this later, and we're going to understand it. It's not fully, but what they did here. I do know of tech people taking account of what happened in cryptocurrency, what's happening here, and at some point there will be a reckoning.

But do you think people will be punished for this?

I don't know. I don't think Elon Musk will necessarily be unless there's signs of take the stuff and run, I suppose. But he's barreling on, even though Tesla sales or Cybertruck sales, they sold 20,000 last year. They were supposed to sell 250,000. I can't believe they sold 20,000, but he keeps rolling on. I think he'll keep rolling on because he can collect money for talker. He'll keep doing... I just did a show today on CSAM, which is essentially child pornography, and he'll just keep rolling on, even though it's shameful what's happening. The other thing, Netflix has officially updated its Warner Brothers offer to an all-cash deal replacing the original cash and stock structure. The latest agreement reduces the amount of debt put on Warner's spinoff, Discovery Global, by $260 million. The two companies say the new structure should allow Warner shareholders to vote on the deal by April. At the same time, Netflix narrowly beat Wall Street expectations in its latest earnings. The company posted $2. 4 billion in fourth-quarter profit, up 29% over the year. But the growth is slowing. Revenue is projected to grow only about 13% this year compared to 16% last year.

It's still working well. Netflix shares hit a 52-week low during the trading this week, which is why they went to all stock. I think it's just a matter of price with this Warner Brothers deal. It looks like Netflix has the inside edge at this moment, but I don't know any thoughts.

Well, they continue of the The expectations are so huge, even though the revenue and earnings topped estimates up 18 and 31% year-on-year, respectively, the stock has been down, and they're at a third of a billion paid global subscribers. There are a few takeaways Race from the Year, the content spend ratio is almost less than it's ever been, which is good for shareholders.

Yeah, you have noted that.

Well, in 2015, Netflix spent 85 cents per $1 of revenue, right? Now, they're spending 38 cents, a 55% decrease, which says, All right, we're going to dominate the market. We're going to take advantage of our cheap capital, overspend on content no one can keep up with us. Then we're going to aggregate an unprecedented number of paid subscribers, and we're going to let revenue continue to grow and hold our spending flat. It's a great strategy. Some people would argue it's predatory pricing. The advertising business, still not a big business. I've always been against it. This year, it counted for 3% of Netflix total revenue, despite the fact that advertising revenues were up two and a half fold from 2024. I think it's bad for the brand, but it's probably very high margin. In terms of watch time, as a share of television watch time, Netflix is sitting at 9% while YouTube is at 12. 7. A combined Netflix Warner Brothers entity would garner or register about 10. 4% of all watch time.

So it's still under YouTube.

Yeah, it's much more... All watch time is not created equal, right? Because just like HBO Watch time is very impactful and cultural. It just... Keeping up with the Kardashian's No one's going to be at the Academy Awards from that. Anyways, but those two, they're Ganges and Kong and then the Seven Doors. If they're number two at 10. 4, it would be the number three, Disney Plus, is at just 4. 2. Seven. I've said this, I like Ted Serandos a lot. I'm not a huge fan. I don't know. I'm neutral on the Ellison's. I don't know him. I'm a huge fan of Ted Serandos. I would rather see Paramount on this for any other reason than I think we just need more bulking up of competitors.

That's what a lot of people think. I just think they're terrible owners.

I can understand that viewpoint. You trust Ted more than you trust the Ellison's. I get that.

Here's what I think. A lot of people are making a lot of noise in Hollywood about like, Oh, he's against theaters and Dave will save it. Dave is not capable of saving it, for one, the theatrical experience. To me, I'm a consumer person. Consumers, if they wanted to go to the theater, they'd go to the fucking theater, and they don't. They go to the theater when they want to. The theater experience is declined because of theaters, not because of consumers, and not because of Ted Sarandos. So blaming him for that is just... He's just doing this. He's just following the trends. Consumers have spoken. No rich Ellison person is going to save I don't care how many James Cameron's or Chris Nolan scream about it. If you make movies that people want to see in the theaters, they will. That's it. I'm not going to put that on him. I'm just not. It's his business to do what is best for his business.

That's just my opinion. Well, Karni summarized it, and it's apropos here. Nostology is not a strategy. Right, exactly. Show me a director claiming how it's all collective. We need to go to movies. I'm going to show you someone who gets every Academy Award film- In his screening. Link sent to him and watches it in in his home theater. You want an interesting stat. Also, what is a theater? What isn't? My 15-year-old, best theater experience of recent memory, he called me. He could not have been more excited. He went and watched the final of Stranger Things in a theater. Yeah, sure. If you want, it's up to your son. It was just amazing. He was just totally blown away by it. Here's a fun stat. Since the first bids were due for Warner Brothers, Netflix stock is down 20%. That's an enormous shedding As Aspecta Motor has shown, only one in three acquisitions ever pay off for shareholders.

Yeah, this one's probably a good one for them from the content perspective. They would be able to take advantage of all those things.

At what price, though? At some point, everything's a good deal, and at some point, everything's a bad deal. Also, the thing about Netflix is they have, and the reason why Apple has been very disciplined and not that acquisitive, Netflix has an outstanding understanding culture. I got that. Did you get that deck? Netflix? Yeah, I did. I mean, Ted doesn't know. I should tell Ted this. Ted and Reid changed my approach to business. I used to think of compensation as I want to pay people as little as possible, give them equity, and create an nice environment and try and generate profits. Ultimately, I can sell it, and then everyone is happy because they have equity. But I was always trying to constantly, I don't say underpay. Yeah, underpay. I was always trying to find ways where I could pay less than markets such that I could have a cash flow positive company. Some of that was out of necessity because a lot of these companies I bootstrap. Netflix had that document that leaked about their culture. Yeah, it didn't leak. A key component of their culture is they say, We want exceptionally well-compensated employees. But now it's totally switched my mind around compensation.

Granted, I'm in a different position now and I can monetize other things, but I try to pay people between 30% and 50% more the market. What I find is, well, one, if you have the money, it's a good thing to do and stop bitching about income and and live up to it. Two, it's like such a luxury because when you pay people really well, I won't say overcompensate, you have no churn. It's so much. It's so nice not to get a call on a Friday, and I'm hexing myself from one of your key employees managing- I'll be calling you on Friday. And saying, Oh, I'm giving my two weeks' note. Anyway- Expect that call on Friday for me. Really? I'll be calling.

No, not meeting.

You're going to semiphobe?

No, I'm not going to call.

You're going to she knows media? No way. You're going to She No's?

No. It's interesting what will happen here. I think what it'll be is how much is that stuff is worth, that extra part, and comparing them. It'll come down to money, as we've said again and again and again. I do think Netflix is the superior buyer, largely because I think a paramount has to buy something. That is absolutely true. If they were better owners, I might be more amenable to it. But I find what they're doing over at CVS, even though it's a small little thing, is soiling themselves on a daily. Even those small decisions are bad, so I don't expect good decisions from them. That's the last thing in media. The SEC says daytime and nighttime talk shows aren't automatically exempt from the political equal time rule anymore. That means if they host a candidate, they may have to offer equal air time to opposing candidates. Talk shows have previously qualified for an exemption to the rule for ever. It's clearly aimed at late night hosts like Colbert and Kimmel, maybe John Stuart, although John Stuart has more different people on. But this is ridiculous. This is Brandon that Thirsty Chow, doing it again. I mean, it's the same thing.

He failed last time by threatening them, and this is a threat, I suppose. Whatever.

Yeah, I actually like this law, but this is an abuse of it. I think it's a good law that you try and give people equal time such that one party doesn't weaponize the media. But this is just an abuse of it. I think where it will come back to haunt them and why this will go nowhere is someone's going to say, Well, what about AM Talk radio, which is dominated by Republicans? Correct. That is great. What is TV TV, and what is radio when now radio and podcasts are now TV shows, just a lower means of production? I don't think this is going to hold the test of any legal test that their buddies over at Newscore or Serious Radio or whoever it is are going to want, Okay, you set this precedent. We're all in the line of fire.

Yeah, bring over the lesbian, Kara Swisher, over to Newsmax, whatever. I would talk to the My Pillow lady who's getting ratioed by Ilana Omar every day. I'd talk to her. I would just to just do the same thing. But yeah, it's ridiculous. It's aimed at Colburn and Kimmerer, and they'll just have Marjorie Telegreen on. Fine, Brandon, you piece of shit. Anyway, anyhow, let's go on a quick break. When we come We're back. We'll talk about the latest in Minnesota. By the way, Brandon Carr, I'm going to be following you after you're out of office, just so you know. I'll be watching you. Support for Dede's show comes It's from SelectQuote. Time for some life talk, specifically life insurance. If you have policy right now, do you know how much you're paying for it and for how much you're being covered? Odds are you pay too much for too little. Sure, it's not the easiest conversation to have. Frankly, it's scary to think about, but it's simple to get right, thanks to SelectQuote. For over 40 years, SelectQuote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage.

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Oh, God, They're so awful. With ICE officers targeting Somali communities, JD Vance is expected to visit Minneapolis as we tape as a show of support to federal immigration enforcement operations there. Oh, yeah. Ice agents in Minnesota have detained at least four kids from the same school district this month, including a five-year-old boy, in order to catch his parents. Tensions are already running high following the Renee Good shooting. There was a release of her autopsy. It looks like he shot well after he had to through the head. The first two shots were not great, but they didn't kill her. The third one did, so he didn't have to shoot her. Hundreds of Minnesota businesses are planning to shut down Friday in protest of ICE activity in the state. I happen to be interviewing Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Fry, today, so I'll hear the latest. Where do we go from here?

Well, the thing that struck me, I don't know if you saw this, but the best argument, I think, around the Second Amendment or protection of the Second Amendment, even in the face of the original the original authors or the original founders, it could not have conceived of what these weapons would do right now, is that every time we have people know where guns are, it's been used to... The Nazis, when they rolled into a place, just went and found where the guns were registered, took the guns away, and then Nazis showed up and had... There was no ability for civilians to push back. Okay, so we have guns everywhere. We have a mass police force showing up. Where the people the guns? The answer is they've started showing up in Minnesota, and that is there are some neighborhoods. Have you seen this, where people are outside on patrols with guns saying, Sorry, don't come to my neighborhood. I'm not endorsing this. I think fascism can come from the far right or the far left. But this does feel like they're risking and like they're begging for or prompting for pretty serious violence and an excuse to start firing on civilians.

I think, quite frankly, Minnesota leadership looks weak here. I feel sorry for them. They're flat-footed. I don't know how they respond. But if- What do they do?

They're abusing citizens. What can they do? Resist? These people have enormous firepower.

I'm not suggesting they show up with zip ties and bullets. I, quite frankly, care. I think Governor Walsh looks really weak here.

Okay, again, you're focused on the Democrats. I'd like you to focus on the people that are actually- No, I'm focused on actually both sides to be a critical thinker. But a critical thinker would say, what is happening with the people that actually have the guns and are abusing the government power? I'd like your thoughts on that.

Well, I just said, the mass police reminds people the Stasi. I think it's horrible. I think that Democratic senators should write up, basically make it clear, We're coming for you, and the statute of limitations does not expire for these types of crimes. Having said that, I feel like no one is really stepping into the void of leadership here and standing up and saying, All I empathize with them. I'm not sure what I would do. I don't know how you handle this situation. I got to be honest. I don't think this is... I'd be very interested to see. I don't think the leadership of Minnesota, and I'm sympathetic of an impossible position.

They've been very vocal. They've been very- Well, the mayor has been.

That's a good example. I think that's a fair point.

So has the Senator Tina Smith. So has Senator Klobuchar. I feel like They are.

What is Senator Klobuchar saying?

She's been all over talking about, We're going to come back when this is over. We want to tamp down the violence. At the same time, this over-abusive power. They're saying the things you want. These people have impunity. They just don't stop. I think the question is, the only way to stop them is to attack them, which you can't do. I think the citizens of Minnesota who have that history, decades of this resistance for long, long, long, long, long time, are the ones showing the real bravery here. These people you see. I agree.

But who would you identify as the leader and pushback of resistance here? Is it the mayor of Minneapolis? Is it the Senate? Is Senator Klobuchar? Who is it?

I think a lot of the local officials are being very vocal, and I think judges are trying to pull it back. I just think these people just keep going. I think Stephen Miller just says, okay, when they shoot a woman through the head, their next move is, yeah, now you can go into their houses, even if they're not criminals, essentially. I just don't know what the response is except shooting at them. I think that leads to a really… That's why they've got these people, the government, is if you're going to behave like thugs, the only response is thuggishness, right? That actually is effective. Then you're like, let me do this. On a local level, after Fox News said that gangs of deluded wine moms were harassing ace agents, Amanda and I made a funny video, but we wanted to ask women to call in and tell us about their experiences. Let's hear one. These are average citizens. Let's hear one.

Hey, Scott and Cara.

My name's Annie, and I'm a mom who lives in Minneapolis. I've been helping to resist ICE by driving kids to and from school every day. What we need to do is get kids to the classroom to learn. Their parents are too afraid to leave the house and too afraid to go to the bus stop, and this is where we can step in and help. Are these the actions of a leftist terrorist group? I don't think so. I think it's just Just people deciding that this is the right thing to do. If that makes me a part of the Deluded Wine Mom's Club, then I will probably wear it like a badge of honor. Thanks. One more? Hi, Scott and Cara, and by which I really mean, Cara and Amanda, Deluded Wine Mom. I am the mother of a seven-year-old about 25 minutes south of Saint Paul, and I got myself tailed by ice on Thursday last week. The crime I committed essentially was taking photo of the license plate of the Florida plate on only the back of his vehicle and giving him a dirty look, which he very well deserved. About 15 minutes later, he took my picture, I took his picture, and then 15 minutes later, after picking up my child at school, I found a very large black SUV following me very close range for five minutes, felt like about an hour.

Fun times here. These are Scott. I mean, people are trying to do things, and it reminds me a little bit of- Cara, don't put words in my mouth.

You're making it sound like I don't stand behind the public in Minneapolis.

I know you do. Okay, go ahead.

I think the young woman who said that she is shuttling kids to school, I think the efforts to provide food to People who might be harassed by eye so they don't have to leave their house. I salute the people of Minneapolis doing whatever they can. I'm disappointed that there doesn't appear to be a Democratic leader standing up in Minnesota or anywhere else showing anything resembling... We need a leader. We need somebody who is... And I get that this is a very difficult situation, but I feel as if, okay, we need somebody to... And again, I've said this before. Why do they know? Why are they violating everyone else's privacy? And someone hasn't come out and said, Okay, we're smart people. We know how to use the internet. And here are the people that we believe have committed or accomplices to murder and second-degree murder, in the Renee Good case. This is the criminal prosecution papers we're planning to file, which will be outside of the statute of limitations. On a ground level- Well, Keith Allison has said this, the attorney general of the state.

I think what you're talking about is someone like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffrey, and I agree with you 100%. Newsom has certainly talked about it a lot. Josh Shapiro has talked about it a lot. Anyone, you haven't heard a lot from some of the other presidential candidates, but I thought that Pritzker stood up quite a bit when they were in Chicago.

I think every presidential candidate, I think every presidential candidate should be in Minneapolis right now.

I agree.

And peaceful protests, not threatening anyone physically, but just there. What's going on here is contrary to the very reason America was founded. The reason we started this experiment was we didn't want to be abused by a monarch who had no checks and no balances and no control. They could just abuse citizens based on what they felt was advantageous for them or their blood sugar level. That's what's going on here. But I'm disappointed in the Democratic Party. It strikes me. It feels like there needs to be a leader here, and it's not obvious to me who that is.

Anyway, I was listening to Rachel Maddow's Burn Order, which is about Japanese internment camps, and two groups of people stand out to me. One are Quakers who threw blankets and everything up over these internment camps, even as the army was lying about what they were, which was astonishing that they did this, which I mean, blankets, does it end it? No, but it helps. Just like these- It's symbolic at a minimum. These women driving these kids. That is critically important for citizens to get out there. There's a lot of videos of just average citizens who have never come out and is like, I'm sick of this shit. I love that. But one of the people that it reminds me of is this guy, Colorado Governor Ralph Kahr. He opposed the Japanese Americans. He called it unconstitutional. He welcomed the Colorado. He caused him politically. He lost because of all this anti-Japanese sentiment. He thought denying rights based on ancestry was undermining the American system, and he welcomed them. It was unpopular, and the downfall of his political career. Now, there's lots of things named after him in Colorado. But it was a price. It was an absolute price for this guy, and the backlash was significant at the time.

But if you think about those things, you do need a political figure like this, even if at great cost, and you're absolutely right. They do have to put their bodies on the line and their political reputations. But to me, this is going to be citizens going to push back here because that's how the Minnesota way. One thing I really appreciate these moms calling in. This is the stuff you need to do. None of them, they're just exercising their rights as citizens in the United States, and they do not seem particularly dangerous to me. I think that's a good thing. I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to put words in your mouth. I just think the focus, unfortunately, it's going to be on citizens going forward.

No, and you're right. It's clear I haven't registered or paid attention to some of, for example, Senator Klobuchar and what they have said. I do empathize with the point is, okay, what exactly do you do with people with federal government who have mandated weaponry. The whole thing is, again, I'm waiting for the Democrat to say, This is where we are going after these folks. I think you are breaking laws, and if you break more laws, we're coming for you.

We're keeping names. We're making lists. Yeah, we're taking names. Yeah, I agree with you.

It may take us 36 months before we can do anything, but 36 months goes fast.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's sad for the people having to do it, but they're also doing it without stopping. I get they need money, but there's other ways. People hate them. People hate them, and that's not no way to live. One more quick break will be back for predictions, and Kara's wins and fails. Nice.

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Com/yourrichbff. Okay, Scott, let's hear your prediction, and then I will say my wins and fails.

So if there is an upside, and it would be impossible to call this an upside, but I do think that there may be some element of distraction around this Greenland shit. I wouldn't even give him that credit. Bottom line is my prediction is that I think we're about to see the US conduct a military strike on Iran I think the USS Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Force. By the way, none of this is confidential information. It's all been reported. The fueling tankers that basically give you a gas station in the sky, many of them are relocated to bases the region. Some of that just might be, okay, the region is a bit hot right now, so we want additional kinetic power there. But I think, one, I think it's the right thing to do. I think we have an unbelievable opportunity here to top a regime who's been the primary funder of terror and the most oppressive regime, maybe globally in a long time and is really deeply weakened. I interviewed Neil Ferguson yesterday, the historian for the Prof G Pod, and I asked him, What is the likelihood the regime survives if we don't intervene in a coordinated strike?

And he put it at 90%. He said, They'll just wait it out.

Well, they tamped down the protesters. They tamp down the protester.

Well, yeah, when you start killing people, right? Speaking of which. You can do the right thing for the wrong reasons. I think Trump is going to do this because I think he absolutely loved the macho Tarzan light that Venezuela provided him.

Yeah, he was Jonesing for something like that, and it gets away from the Epstein files. Again, 34 days. There you go. Turn them over, Pam. Pam, it's a law. Turn them over. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's exactly right. I am going to do Wins and Fails. The Oscars weren't released today. I'm going to do something later because this has been a heavy situation despite the fact that I really Enjoy your Davos stories. The Oscars came out. A lot of great movies this year, 100%. But I was actually very heartened to see someone like Kate Hudson get an Oscar nomination. I think she's the one- What's she been nominated for? For Song, Song, Blue. I saw it.

Oh, that's supposed to be you liked it. That's supposed to be a cute movie.

It's a awful movie. I don't think she'll win. Probably Jessie Buckley from Hamlet. There's a bunch of others who are probably more actor-y, but I think she's a hardworking... She's the daughter, obviously, of Golden Hon, but she's done some amazing work, including comedy, more serious stuff, Almost Famous.

Almost Famous or Absolute Famous?

What was that called? Almost Famous with Cameron Crowe's movie. That was a great movie. She was wonderful in that movie. But I think she's a hardworking, and she's in a Netflix series I like a lot about the Ellie Lakers, essentially. I took As I said, I took my wife, Amanda, who was like, Kate Hudson. Then she came out, she goes, That was an astonishing acting. I was not expecting how layered and good that was. Anyway, I just feel good for her. Good for her to get in there. I doubt she'll win, but I think it's a nice job. You should see the movie. If you feel bad, go see that movie. It's like heated rivalry. You feel bad, watch it. Then I'm just going to say two wins. Again, with the Heated Rivalent, one of the funniest things happening on the internet—this is not a new thing—are people acting out scenes from heated rivalry in public and putting them on the light. They are so funny. They made me laugh my ass off. There was one where the two guys were doing it in the DMV in front of this woman, and she was just watching the whole thing, and it One of the things that was really interesting is Esther Porel talked about the reason people like Hita Ravi, which is the media of the moment, really.

It's because she was saying that it makes you feel better about the outcome, that you're expecting the hit, and you You don't get the hit, you get the right response from people. It retrains you to think everybody's not evil, essentially. I know as a gay person watching it, I was waiting for someone to get beaten up. I was waiting for some rejection or some ugliness, and all the answers are good. I'm going to go watch it a second time because I was just sitting there waiting for the bad news as a gay person because it always comes in those depictions and in life. It was not as much anymore, but definitely in my younger life. I just thought that was great. That was great, too. I'm going to do two wins.

I don't have a thing. I know. I don't even see movies anymore. I already know who's going to win the Oscar.

Who?

Well, you just tell me which film has the following. What? It's a brave film, which means, which is Latin for it has sad people, foreign accents, subtitles, or it's a biopic where someone discovers racism in the third act. Which movie is that?

Is it Hamlet? No. I don't know. One battle after another? I'm asking you, I really don't know. Oh, no. They're all very good movies. These movies that are being nominated are terrific, actually.

Yeah, and all these actors claim they hate sequels unless it's the same movie about Hollywood loving itself, which they remake every year.

I wish Sinners would win, but I don't think it will.

Is that a good film? You like that?

Yes, I love that movie. I thought it was great. Actually, when I was looking at the nominations, I was like, and I don't think that show matters anymore, the Oscars necessarily matter, but they're all good. I was like, Oh, I'd have a hard time picking here. Every one of the actors, terrific, supporting. The only thing that has to win is Golden from K-Pop Dementhunters. Thank you. That was the only thing I would have to say. Song of the Year. Again, a happy song. I'm going to leave on a happy note. That's what I'm doing. I'm not going to talk about other things like that. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag. Com/pivot to submit a question for the show. We'll call 8555. 1 Pivot. Before we go, Scott, you also got a shout out from Michelle Obama on Call Her Daddy podcast. It's such a combination. Call Her Daddy and Michelle Obama. As someone who's done important work on how social media is affecting children, People should go check that episode out. Congratulations. It was very lovely to hear that.

I have a lot of people writing me about you. Meanwhile, Kara Swisher is getting some accolades of her own. Let's play a voicemail I got this week on my phone. If this is Kara Swisher's number, I just wanted to relay that she's a fucking piece of shit.

That's it.

Oh, thank you for that. That's it. What for? Let's call back and tell me what it's for. I really appreciate that. Oh, my God. It's on a number. What did you do then? I don't know. I don't know. You have Michelle Obama petting you all over the place saying you're wonderful. I get this. I'm a fucking piece of shit.

Anyway. That pisses me off because guess what? You know who doesn't get voicemails like that? What? Men.

Yeah, they don't. I get them all the time. Usually from men, actually. Usually from men. But actually, this is a woman.

I don't know. Misogyny is a universal practice. It's not limited. It's probably unfair to call her misogynist. Maybe she feels wrong by you or whatever, but I'm not exaggerating. I get a lot of shit posting online. No one ever calls me.

Oh, I get it all the time. Yeah.

There's just a different level of... Anyways, I don't know.

I did seriously think it was my mother at first.

That's lucky on Mother's Day.

By the way, our producers said they can call and leave you a message if you're feeling left out.

Yeah. No, I like to pay people to leave those kinds of messages for me.

Yeah, I know. Well, I just wanted to play it because, lady, if you're going to leave me a fucking asshole message, I'm playing it and using it as content. And also say why. But fuck you. Anyway, I don't really care. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, Michelle Obama loves you. Read us out.

Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Christine Driskill. Additional assistance from Kate Gallagher and Brad Sylvester. Ernie Neertal entering this episode. Manola Moreno edited the video. Thanks also to Dubros, Mia Severo, and Dan Chalan. Nishad Kroes, Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag. Com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.