Transcript of CEO Shooting, Bitcoin Surge, and Bezos’s Trump Optimism

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I do know what you're doing at all moments, but I've gotta keep track of you because you're up to things. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Scott, it is cold as a mother outside. It is freezing here in Washington.

Really?

I feel like I live in London.

No. If you lived in London, it would be 50 and dark already. Yeah. You'd be thinking about a spa of tea. Ask ask where the dog is, Kara.

Where's the dog? Where are you? Where are you?

I'm in the Cotswolds. I'm in the Cotswolds. We're moving, and my job when we move is to simply put, get the fuck out of the way, and my value add is to bring the dogs out to the cotswolds. Here. Let me do my impression of me moving.

I'm in a room, packing my stuff, and occasionally, you just hear an expletive and then, where are my edibles? I can't find my edibles. And so the Panzer tank, commander who is organizing this move has decided

Your wife. Yeah.

I am not a value add, and my job is to leave and take the dogs with me. So I'm out at Heckfield Place Oh. Taking

That's useful.

Walks with the dogs Yeah. And having farm all organic breakfasts and

Oh, okay. Do you know who else is in the Cotswolds?

I'm sure there's quite a few people with us.

Ellen DeGeneres and her wife, Portia de Rossi. They've moved from the United States.

To the Cotswolds?

Yeah. Apparently. I have not I did not

run into Ellen on my walk today. But

Well, I'm just saying. It could be like a beautiful you know, 1 of those British romances where you ride up on the horse and, you know, you they they're they've

Accidentally dropped my scarf or she dropped

her scarf? Something, or else they just they they run out into the into the moors or whatever the hell they I

think I'm more into her wife, Portia. She was great in Arrested Development. I thought she was hilarious.

She was great in a lot of things. She was in Ally McBeal. You don't remember that. That's back, by the way. You can watch.

I never watched Ally McBeal. I never

Oh my god. Do yourself a favor there in the Cotswolds and get your butt. I think it's on 1 of them. I forget.

You know, my cue does not include Ally McBeal.

I'm just telling you, you'd like it. Shockingly, I I have this feeling that you would like it. Anyway, well, that's nice. I'm here in the the District of Columbia.

DC. But do you have sunshine there? Like, has the sun been out in the last 7 days?

No. It's gray today. It's gonna be sunshine and freezing tomorrow, but, no, we have gray. And I am preparing for a weekend of Christmas parties. I was supposed to go to the meta holiday party tonight, but I I Amanda's not is under the weather a little bit.

Well, just stay home and self harm. Same same. That's funny. I did that invitation must have got lost in the mail for me. I don't I didn't get invited to the meta party.

Yeah. I I they they like me at the meta washing office. Don't tell Mark, but they do.

It's because you're powerful. They don't need to be nice to me. I hate them, but I have no power, so they can just not invite me. They hate you, but you have power, so they pretend to like you.

A couple of them are super smart. I think they're not.

That's the problem. A lot of them are super smart. That's the whole problem.

Yeah. You're right. You're right. You're a 100% right. And then, go into a bunch of parties.

It's gonna be fun. It's a little it's holiday party weekend is here in DC.

You're gonna get drunk and make out with anybody? No. Or be be No. Like, stumbling drunk, and then run for and then be be a nominee for the cabinet?

No. I'm a rare partygoer. I don't I'm very rare, and I leave early. I'm not like, and I don't give a lot. I don't give a lot, and that's my power.

I I'm like,

You know, I'm glad you finally acknowledge that across all your relationships, Cara.

Your tea stirring is loud. You know? I can hear your dink dally dink. Let me hear that again.

Oh, no. It's it's 1 of these weird bottles that, you know, they can't just give you water. It has to be something kinda classy and stylish. British design actually really stepped it up in kinda the odds. And it even says on it, still water.

Well, thank you. And I tried to make tea with, like, free range leaves or whatever it was, and it

tastes it

tasted like ass. And I'm like, I'm just gonna order a latte from room service.

You are such not a British person, but I'm glad you're there. You know, the theme of my fam of my school, my Saul's preschool, they have a party every year, which I try not to go to, but then Amanda demands it, which is James Bond.

Oh, that must be fun.

Okay.

I'm going as Holly Goodhead. True story. True. That was a true Bond girl, Holly Goodhead.

It was the woman who was in

I forgot her name. She was in broadcast news. She played the anchor that threatened Holly Hunters, so they sent her to Alaska. I forgot her name. Tall drink of lemonade.

Yeah. I love them same spot movies, but I'd rather be home.

Still best Bond girl? Dandy Newton. Most beautiful woman in the world. Dandy. Yeah.

No. If she's ever on your pod and

I will let you know.

If she's in London.

I shall let you know about her if there's ever that. You could get her on your pods. And you everybody loves the pods, Scott. Don't you know that?

Oh my god. How many people have called you in the last 2 weeks saying, hey. What's going on? You know, I think we'd have a really interesting discussion on the pod. I'm like, yeah, boss.

Get in line.

Anyway, I had I did a really good 1 in New York with, the CEO of Tubi, which is this quiet

Oh, yeah.

Streaming service that's killing it. And, Aja Lee sued, and she's a young woman, and is is killing it at this thing quietly as others are are. Anyway, it's really cool. She used to be CEO of Vimeo, and she's, like, 12.

There's a bunch of those guys. Pluto. What's the other 1?

1 of

them closed freebie closed. The Amazon closed freebie. Anyway, 81,000,000 subscribe people using it. Not subscribers because it's free. But 81,000,000 is huge.

It's bigger than almost all of them except for Disney, Netflix, and, I think, Amazon. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Sam Altman trying to make nice with Elon, Bitcoin surging. Oh, now we have to be nice to Cathy Wood, but we're not going to anyway, surging on the news of Trump's SEC pick. So we have to dive right in. Andrew Ross Sorkin, our favorite Canadian, had quite a action packed, event yesterday in New York with everybody who was there.

It was kinda crazy. He's sort of become the code conference. Interesting.

I was just gonna say he's filled a vacuum left by

Kara Swisher.

You know, what is it? A very small man can cast a long shadow.

Oh, don't tell me that.

You have cast a very long shadow, and you have left the stage. Oh my god. Big Quint at $103,000. Jesus Christ.

I know. We'll get to it. We'll get to it.

Raise your hand if you don't own a single fucking coin. Anyways, I I I generally believe that you left a void in the market, and Andrew, who does a great job on his own, But that that in the I I would argue the Milken conference had kinda become well, actually, there's still Sun Valley, but, I think the Milken conference and, Andrew Ross Horkinseng. Yeah. So I spoke at 1 of those breakout panels that Andrew has. It was kinda like, they pretend they've asked you to speak on the main stage, and you show up and you're in a room with, like, 8 other people.

Yep. And then I was asked to speak because I know you wanted, to bring it back to me.

I do. Always.

I was

asked to speak at the Milken conference, and I said I sent them my speaker sheet with my fees. I'm like, boss, we don't pay anybody to speak. And I wrote back and I said, okay. They wanna put me on a panel on, like, I don't know, media and tech. And I'm like, I'm sorry.

I only do keynotes. And they wrote back, I guess it's not gonna work. We don't have keynotes, just panels. So I am literally the Karen of the Milken Institute. And

You are. I did the same thing. Scott, I did the same thing.

And I screwed up. I'd like to go. It's supposed to be amazing. Anyways, whoever curates the Milken thing

Maybe we could offer ourselves up as a thing.

No. They don't want entertainment. They want, like, real, like, brain power, so don't bite you.

That's true brain power. What are you talking about? We're, like, so brainy.

Brainy?

Anyway, just so you know, Andrew Ross Serkin is not a Canadian. We'll get back to Andy.

He's a Canadian spy. Do I have to remind everyone again?

Several different things were interesting. Jeff Bezos says he's optimistic about president like Donald Trump. 2nd term in at the summit, he was doing more suckerporee. Let's listen.

I'm actually very optimistic this time around that he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view, if I can help him do that, I'm gonna help him.

Yeah. He's he's in full suck up mode. He really wants those government contracts. And he also made the most ridiculous statement. Let me just read this to you because I thought it was just kinda silly.

He he finally acknowledged he was the 1 that did the changes of the Kamala Harris endorsement, when the when the company had said it was a group effort. But he was like, no. It was me, essentially, and which we all knew, which we didn't need to be told by him. But 1 of the interesting thing is he said it it creates a a perception of bias if you do them. And then, of course, he was creating a perception of bias by being so effusive about Trump.

He's really more than anybody else and not really acknowledge he should not own that paper in so many ways. He seems to you know, he said he's gonna fix it and save it the 2nd time, which but people who were there thought he was quite arrogant, actually. I I talked about a dozen people and trying to be adorable and not succeeding. He said he would try to talk Trump out of the idea that the press was the enemy, and he thinks Trump is, as I said, calmer. I don't know.

I just think he wants space contracts. That's really pretty much what I took away from that 1. Thoughts?

There's a couple of things. Well, I agree with you. If if you're gonna take over a national treasure like The Washington Post, which plays an outsized role relative to its actual business, in the policing, in the, you know, truth to power, neither fear nor favor, it really does play an important role. And I do think that oh, not Musk. Excuse me.

I do think that Bezos saw that and bought it for a song. 250,000,000, you said? Yeah. Bought it for a song and genuinely was was thought of it as, I don't know, a goodwill gesture towards the community. At least that's how he positioned and framed it.

He did.

Yeah. A lot of billionaires buy media companies or control them because they're thinking, if anyone comes after me, I can defend it with this heat shield called my own media network, or I can I can evangelize my own political views? Media is just so goddamn powerful. Eventually, almost every billionaire either has an interest in or decides to control a media company recognizing that's the ultimate prophylactic and the ultimate offensive weapon. So when he gets involved, when when he makes editorial decisions, choosing to not endorse anyone was an endorsement of Trump.

Right. Of course. At the last minute too. At the last minute too.

Yeah. It it was an endorsement of Trump, and that is terrible for the culture. It was a a really low, what I'll call, management EQ move. You're creating descent across a group of talented people where there's already strain because the business is strained. So you're adding chaos where there doesn't need to be.

So you're right. He's the wrong owner. He should put it in a trust such that he can say, guys, I have no influence. Mister president, I have no influence over this thing. I know that article they wrote about you saying that you've been that you're a felon, that you've been found guilty by jury of your peers of rape, that you actually coordinated and inspired an insurrection.

You know? True or not, I can't help it. They're gonna report the way they're gonna report. When he weighs in, that means he's the wrong owner because he has a conflict, and that is the right thing for him to do as a fiduciary for Amazon shareholders is to unnaturally kiss Donald Trump's ass because it works.

Yeah. Absolutely. He's very good at it. Let me just say, I compared I I was comparing all the different statements by all the CEOs. Jeff has gone over and above all the others by I never mentioned The Washington Post, which and he's the only 1 with a newspaper.

I get it when Cook does it. I get it when Nigella does it. I get it when all of them do it. And I and I I had an interview with Marc Benioff yesterday, and we had a great discussion about this. But he was forthright about it.

And Bezos is sort of playing games. That's my feeling. I mean, Mark is like, this is why I'm doing it. This is why, you know, why it's good. This is why it's bad.

I get it that I own time, so I gotta be very careful and make sure I stress that time will do what it you know, it was a whole different experience with Mark Betty offers.

And I think Mark wants to sell time. No? He wants out.

He says he doesn't. It was interesting. On the record, he said there people have approached him.

Oh, yeah. A lot of people wanna own Time Magazine.

I know. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. So I don't know.

I I couldn't tell. I think I think if he got a great offer, he'd sell it. But he was pretty much, I'm not selling it right now, essentially.

Yeah. That's that's that's

Yeah. He's not trying to sell it. He's incoming.

That's someone selling, trying to get a decent number and get out of dodge. Yeah.

He could've said

it's not for sale. The guy doesn't need to sell it. So even being open to it means anybody I wanna sell it. Look, billionaires mind media companies is like when you buy a boat. It's a ton of fun for a while, and then you just Yeah.

Until it's not.

Until it's not. Yeah.

1 of the I think the 1 of the better owners is Lorraine Powell Jobs. She's she apparently leaves her hands off over at The Atlantic, and they've been doing some very tough reporting. And she never says anything public, even though she supported Kamala Harris. She never was public in any way. She's got a an extra responsibility.

1 1 thing Bezos said, what presidential endorsements actually do is create a perception of bias, a perception of non independence. This is exactly what happened by his Claudius decision at the wrong time and then his effusive brace. That's exactly, like, every accusation, as I say, is a confession with these people. Anyway, we'll see, Jeff. Good luck.

But I have to tell you, most people there thought you seemed like an arrogant twit. Sam, also had some interesting things to say at the summit, Sam Altman, as he noted that there have been misalignments and challenges in the OpenAI Microsoft relationship. No shit. But insisted the 2 companies were not disentangling. He played down, AI threats that artificial general intelligence will arrive soon and discussed OpenAI's transition to a for profit model.

He was asked, obviously, about Elon Musk's relation with Trump because Elon's back to suing him again, as we discussed last week, and possible misuse of power. Let's listen.

I believe that pretty strongly, I mean, it may turn out to be wrong, but I believe pretty strongly that Elon will do the right thing, and that Americans it'd be profoundly un American to use political power to the degree that Elon has it to hurt your competitors and advantage your own businesses. And I don't think people would tolerate that. I don't think Elon would do it. Right. I it would go again, lots of things not to like about him, but it would go so deeply against the values I believe he holds very dear to himself that I'm not that worried about it.

Mhmm. He's wrong on both counts.

I agree.

Musk would do it, and unfortunately, America has shown an an ability to tolerate it recently.

I agree.

So, yeah, don't hold your breath, boss. If you're waiting for the better angels of Musk to show up, don't hold your breath in terms of putting you out of business, supporting that ridiculous, kneecap every AI legislation in California that that governor Newsom correctly vetoed. I mean, of course, he would he would do everything within his power to kneecap OpenAI to hope that XAI catches up such that he can control every technology. And, unfortunately, I no longer have the confidence I once did that this couldn't happen.

No. I I you know, it happened actually, Vivek Ramaswani. By the way, they're here in Washington. They go up and talk about Doge on the hill today. They're here, so I'm staying at home.

But they, they had talked about it quite openly. Vivek Ramaswani said maybe they should look at the last minute Rivian loan, which is a competitor to Tesla and a lot of the other things. It was so stupid. Not the living loan because Tesla got a $450,000,000 loan that saved him.

And Altson is so partisan. It undermines

their credibility. The

why

would they even if he thinks that, why would he say that?

Because he's a jazz hands, never met a camera he didn't wanna fuck, essentially. And so, I I think Sam is very naive here because Elon sued him, then un sued him. They had a discussion. They hugged in Montana, as I said. And then he sued him right back.

Elon uses litigation, political power, and any means he can for advantage. It is Sam, I think, is being shockingly naive here. But, you know

Well, he's hoping that people so Sam is a very bright guy. And Sam's Sam's complexion or posture, I think, is very smart and quite frankly, much more mature mature than many of the tech executives that are 10, 20 years a senior, and that is he never makes personal attacks.

Well, he does little under. He does sometimes. They're very clever. I you can pick them up.

But they're they're passive passive aggressive.

Yeah. Yeah. There's an again, there's a lot of things not to like about him. Like, he puts he gets that in.

So But OpenAI was basically started, and Musk wanted out, or they couldn't come to an agreement. So He

wanted more, and they wouldn't let him have more.

Right. Musk wanted to control it. So he he he and Altman said no. And Musk said, I'm taking my ball and going on. Signed airtight legal documents saying he was out, and he no longer had ownership or control over the company.

And now that it's the leader in open in AI, he's decided that, oh, I'm angry, and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna burn the village to say

And I have my own company. I want advantage, which is

Yeah.

That I want yeah. I wanna kneecap the leader here. And if if if the shoe were on the other foot

Mhmm.

I mean, Musk would be on Twitter every day accusing Altman of pedophilia and and saying that this company is anti American. It's been weaponized by Putin. I mean, it would be Yep. He he would he would be turning the algorithms of anything he could on this guy.

I'm excited to find out from Sam what why he thinks that. I'm gonna try to see him soon. Uh-uh. Because I think he's wrong. I think he's hoping this is the way it's gonna

I don't think he thinks that. I think he's trying to I think he's trying to come off as the good guy.

Yeah. Maybe so.

And and and hope that politicians and people see OpenAI as the innovator and the leader and and put some sharp repellent around them. Say, no. This is bullshit.

We'll see. I I think he kinda had to say that. And he doesn't wanna seem like a victim of Elon. I think that's smart in that regard. Let's turn to something really, I I was very shook up by, I was I happened to be in New York yesterday.

I was leaving, was right actually in the nearby when this happened. Nothing to do with me, but the shocking murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan on Wednesday has prompted that the the killing in of itself was targeted. They don't know by whom, but, it's prompted a wave of social media reactions, including incredibly tasteless jokes. Users took jabs at UnitedHealthcare, health insurance in general. Thompson's company is the largest private health insurer in the US, and many in the industry has been targeted with lawsuits and criticism over allegedly denying claims to maximize profits.

Thompson's wife said her husband in getting threats that seem to be tied to lack of coverage, but the behavior of people online, was just appalling. Clara Jeffrey from, Mother Jones, who I think is quite a good journalist, we can all hate insurance companies without cheering the murder of someone or worse trying to monetize content about that murder, really gross day on the Internet today. And I agreed. I said, you're ghouls to do this. And I I have to tell you, I got a spate of and and and a reporter who's covering this said, Mike Hixenbaugh said, you're about to be sworn by bad faith replies from people who wanna believe that that not celebrating murder makes you a bootlicking apologist for our broken health care system.

And I have to tell you, he was a 100% right. I got all these terrible I had to turn off the comments on on, blue blue sky, which I never have had to do, but they were all really unpleasant. Like, it's okay to murder this guy because he murders people. And I've gunned them down in cold blood in the street of New York. It was shocking.

I don't know how you felt. And, again, I get it. People are mad at the health care industry, but to celebrate this guy's death, he's a heinous, and the people who did it are really ghouls as far as I'm concerned.

I think this all reverse engineers to the same place as most of our problems, and that is massive income inequality. Yep. And the people let me be clear right up front. This is murder, and I hope they find this person, pursue him to the 4 corners of the earth, and bring him to justice. And my heart really does go out to the family.

The people who empathize with this or can not not empathize with it, can understand why it happened, are the 41% of US adults that currently have some form of debt caused by their own or a family member's medical or dental bills.

Absolutely.

Health care expenditures in the US are 12,500 per person, about 4,000 more than any other high income nation with worse outcomes. The number 1 cause of bankruptcy is is medical debt. So what you have is a a massive regulatory capture. You have a health care system. You and I get the best health care in the world because we're wealthy.

But that top 10%, then that bottom 90 has been optimized for regulatory capture and shareholder value across the medical industrial complex. And the people who've done the worst are the bottom 90, and also quite frankly, frontline medical workers. But when you find out your wife has lung cancer, that's the bad news. The worst news is it probably means there's a decent chance your family might go bankrupt. And so there there is so much despair, and, like, 1 of the charts circulated.

And again, this in no way justifies murder. But 1 of the charts being circulated shows that the greatest number of claim denials is from, you guessed it, UnitedHealthcare. And if you look at the bullets, I when I first heard we do an editorial call, to talk about what issues we're gonna talk about at at and I said, let's not talk about this because we don't know as far as we know, this is just an insane person. We just don't know what happened here. Let's not connect it to a broader theme.

The thing that made me change my mind and feel like you can connect it to societal issues is the following. The casings on the bullets had inscribed in them, denied and delay. This was clearly that's not to say this person isn't mentally ill, but this was clearly rooted or inspired by some weird notion of restoration of societal, injustice.

You know, I completely get it. I just I I there's 2 different things going on here, anger over health care. And you can either be not positive. You can either take positive steps, like Mark Cuban is doing with cost plus, or trying to bring down health care costs, or attacking these companies in legislatively and with lawsuits and everything else. And I understand this is not the solution.

I mean, it

This is not the solution.

I and by the way, these aren't the people who are denied health care. But These were those people are not on the Twitter, and they don't get to go on here and and do this. And I just think it brings down there's no solutions in doing this. And I don't think it makes change. If it made change, I'd be like, like the people in Korea.

They went, they scaled the fence, and things happened. Right? I get all that stuff. This is just it's a really ugly part of humanity. And you're right.

We have to solve we absolutely have to solve this health care problem that is that that that's continuing because this is where it goes. This is exactly where it goes, to a murder on the street of New York. And in any case, it's a sick symptom of our society because we don't keep people healthy, and we treat them only with shareholder value. You're a 100% right. Alright.

Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump's SEC and antitrust picks and take a listener mail question about our own dream cabinet choices. Oh, interesting.

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The movie musical, Wicked, starring Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo, is 1 of the most discussed cultural phenomena, but we haven't seen any attention to the musical choices that power this incredible show. From melodic references to the original 1939 Wizard of Oz To subtle harmonic foreshadowing, every pitch and rhythm has a story to tell if you just listen close enough. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan of the podcast Switched on Pop. Every week, we break down the music that you need to know. This week, everything about Wicked.

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Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for detail. Scott, we're back with more headlines. In international news, the French government collapsed on Wednesday after parliament voted out to oust prime minister Michel Barnier and his cabinet. The vote was called after Barnier pushed an unpopular budget proposal without parliamentary approval.

Marine Le Pen of France's far right led the opposition against the budget. President Macron will have to employ a new prime minister. And and, also, at the same time, South Korea's president is facing impeachment vote after declaring martial law that turned rather quickly, and, after revoking the motion due to political pressure and a lot of people coming down there and climbing the fences. It was really interesting how quickly South Korea turned that around, the people of South Korea. But it's really there's just so much, chaos happening across the world.

Any thoughts?

I think it's linked to the vile messages you're getting. And I know this sounds paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if I were the head of the GRU or the CCP or the security services in the Islamic regime, I would think, okay. We can't defeat them economically. We can't defeat them militarily.

Let's let's leverage their CapEx, their hunger for shareholder value over everything, their inability to regulate these platforms, and let's use AI to create millions of bots that get people fighting with 1 another. And when we see a powerful yet controversial figure who's a journalist, who weighs in with an issue, let's just automatically try and start fights and get people hating each other, and get people depressed and upset. That's what I would do if I were the head of the GRU.

Now to France. Now to France.

Well, okay. So what you have across the world is every incumbent party is being kicked out because everybody hates every no 1 is satisfied. Everybody is and it goes back to the same thing. Get every democracy arguing and believing that their country is doing really poorly. If you just read the media if you just went on social media, you would think that America is a just a fucking mess right now.

No. It's it's not. I mean, we have issues, no doubt about it. But show me almost any special interest group, maybe the exception of pregnant women and trans people. I would argue gay people, nonwhites, the poor, almost everybody is doing markedly better than they were 10, 20, 40, 50 years ago.

But you would believe that there needs to every spark here turns into a 5 car, you know, alarm because they are smarter than us. And our superpowers are optimism, but the externality of the Achilles heel of that is that we're easier to fool than convinced we've been fooled. Cara, I think in 20 years, we're gonna look back and see the information war of Goebbels, of Nazi Germany, of how whether g r u do and I think they're gonna look at America, and how these platforms were weaponized to get us hating each other, such that we no longer talk to our neighbors, we no longer went on dates. We hated every incumbent person in power thinking that they were the they were the problem in air almost every western nation has seen turnover in their leadership. Does that mean they're all bad, or is something else going on?

And it's the same thing

I was heartened by South Korea how quickly they turned that around. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But he's out. He's out.

He's out. That's right. He's out. But he really made him rather

Well, that was stupid. That was, like, 1 of the most biggest self inflicted declaring martial law in a democracy, but I just hope Trump isn't taking notes. I I

I don't think he is. I think he's taking notes like what happened in South Korea could happen to right? He's he doesn't have Good point. By the way, with the there was another, Democrat that won a seat in California. Oh 0, 200 votes.

It was just 200 votes. It was crazy. Democrat. Yeah. Democrat.

1 in California, and it flipped the seat. So now Congress is so close. It's crazy. And because Trump has appointed several congresspeople, they don't have they have, like, almost 1 or 2 scooch rooms. So if, you know, any any single congressman can overturn anything on the on in the Republican side.

So it's really we have to get along. Literally, it's the no one's gonna get anywhere anything done if we don't get along in some fashion or find compromise. So, I would agree with you. It's really,

National service, final 5 voting, ranked choice voting, all of us have a personal obligation to take the heat down.

Mhmm.

I mean, there's just a lot and also wake up. Our our platforms, our media, Americans 2 thirds of Americans get their news from social media. It has been weaponized. This is no different than if the Kremlin had controlled CBS, ABC, and NBC in the sixties, and yet we've decided to let it happen.

Yep. I agree. I agree. So, in any case, no one's coming between us, Scott. Just so you know, I'm gonna make sure I'm gonna make sure.

No. We have true dysfunction. We don't it's not the GRU or the CCG coming between us.

Yeah. It's true. But no one's gonna do it. Just us. We're gonna we're gonna make ourselves hate each other.

By the way, I I am absolutely exhausted from my French self defense class. I have never run so far in my life. World War a little world war 2, surrender humor there. Anyways I know.

Don't insult them. They're not gonna let you back in. Pete Hegseth, this campaign, he'd keep his spot as pick for defense secretary when Trump report he considers replacing with Ron DeSantis, who seems very qualified in comparison.

Isn't that funny?

I know. And let me just add some more. Over at the SEC, Trump has nominated Paul Adkins as chairman, and people feel pretty good about that. Adkins was an SEC commissioner under president George Bush and his favorite crypto community. The price of Bitcoin hit a $100,000 for the first time Wednesday.

And lastly, the justice department, Trump had nominated Gail Slater as the head of the antitrust, division. Slater was policy vi adviser for, vice president like JD Vance and served as a tech policy adviser at the National Economic Council during Trump's 1st term. I'm not hearing bad things about her. I think she's quite anti tech, actually, and although she's worked for some tech companies, I think. They all have.

So, like, look. These other ones seem fine, and there's several fines. And then you have they throw out Peter Navarro at, you know, crazy, fine, fine, fine, crazy, fine, fine, fine. Pete, thanks, Seth. Wow.

What a what a media story. And,

he's out. This has just gotten too far. When his mom goes on Fox to say she didn't mean it, and the he he was he he had a nonprofit that he was bilking for his own personal expenses. When he showed up, he was drunk

2 of them.

Hitting on people. I mean, you just he he's toast. There are already 5 Republican senators that have said they're concerned, which means basically don't make me vote no, resign. I bet he's out in the next I

think Lindsey Graham has flip flopped again. He was negative, and now he's but, you

know Yeah. Because Trump called him and said, I'll tell you when to be negative. He's out in the next 24, 40 hours. The good news is with respect to the SEC pick, I do think something rational comes over, washes over Trump when it comes to these these picks. And then, you can't say that about Peter Navarro.

Peter Navarro has struck me as a total fucking nut. But, anyways, the SEC, I think, is it's an important position. This guy seems very credible to me. Also, you know, governor DeSantis, I'm a resident of Florida. I don't like his policies.

Oh, he can run things. I have

He's a competent individual. And, also, the people I know who work with governor DeSantis have always said he's very data driven. He was a lawyer for the navy. He's qualified. And

No. He he handled the hurricane. I'm not a favorite. The put put in fingers is not my favorite, but, I I he ran and handled the hurricane fine. And, I mean, comparison the comparison to this guy, that's it's like the lowest of bars, this guy.

He's qualified.

He's qualified. He's only qualified.

What do you think of, senator Ernst? I don't know much about her.

I think she's great. I think she's really interesting. I don't agree with her on tons of stuff. But I think she's trying very hard because she doesn't wanna get primary necessarily. And at the same time, I don't think anyone blames her for being like Pete Hegsetz, get the fuck out of my office and don't grab my boobs.

Right? You know, that kind of thing. She served and, of course, she had issues of sexual harassment in the military, served in combat, really, you know, deserves to be heard on this 1. And she she and whatever she wants is what should happen. I know her name was bandied about for that job, but I think it's DeSantis is the 1.

Because he's he terms out, and then he's got there's not really a lot. He could run for office for to try to take over for Trump from the defense department. I don't know. My favorite I have to say it has unleashed an incredible series of, also, Pete has said, letting your mommy after after insulting and sexually harassing women, letting your mommy fix your problem is really something else. This is my favorite 1.

I'll stop drinking if you let me run the Pentagon is maybe the most alcoholic thing anyone has ever said. That's what he told Pete he'd stop drinking. I mean, get some help.

Anyone in recovery, anyone who knows anything about addiction says, okay. First, you gotta fix the underlying problem. And saying you're gonna quit if means you haven't even acknowledged you have a problem. You know, if he'd said, I've struggled and I've quit, and with the help of God and my wife, you know, I'm gonna but saying, give me this. Don't stop drinking.

I mean, you know, it was a wrong day for me to give up meth. I mean,

whatever. Wow. I can't believe some of the senators are like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Oh, sure. Right.

Well then.

This, actually, here's my winner. No. That's not my winner. Has anyone checked to see whether Hegseth is actually Kavanaugh's drinking buddy Squee? I love how they mix the cap because he said on Megyn Kelly, Pete, whatever, Hegseth, bad Pete, said he was, he was Cavanad.

By the way, Megyn Kelly did a terrible job with that interview.

Oh, really?

Oh, there you are. You're not you're not an alcoholic. You seem like 1. Like, I don't have a drinking problem. Why did you fall?

Like, he was apparently at Fox News, he was apparently had to be carried out of a work event, like, carried out. How drunk do you have to be? Have you been carried out of anything?

No. I think 1 of the problems that I drink 1 of the downsides is it a downside? Of me drinking a lot is I'm a better version of me, a little fucked up.

Oh.

I'm friendly. I'm nice. I'm smart. I'm just get I just get I'm I'm just a better version of me. People I remember in in college and the fraternity, occasionally, not often, but occasionally, guys would get drunk and they get violent or mean.

And you immediately, you know, immediately, you're like, memo to self. Stay away from this person. I think how people behave when inebriated and how they treat their pets are looking glasses into their souls. And, you can you can really tell a lot by a person by the way they act after a few

drinks. And because they often are a better version of or or version of themselves. 1 of the 1 of the expressions that was used, I think, is the drunk does the drunk agree with the sober? Right? Is it is it varied if you change it?

It's always some women behave like this, but it's always the man the bad guy that suddenly comes out. Interestingly Well,

some women get very mean on alcohol care.

They do. I know they do.

Just try Jen. There's a word for it, Jen.

I get it. I get it. Tequila makes her clothes fall off. I get that. That's a great song, by the way.

1 of the things that Louie told me we were talking about, I saw him in New York this week. And he he he didn't know a lot about it, but he was sort of aware of it. And I said, well, this guy, you know, probably blames drinking on his sexual harassment that happens in the wake of that. And he said, I've been blackout drunk, and I've never been doing that. Like, he was, like, so sensible.

He's like, you don't you don't have to behave like that just because you're drinking or blame drinking for your bad behavior. It is you at your heart. I think that's correct. Anyway, Pete, good knowing you. I would be shocked if he held on.

Both of us would be shocked. Friday is when you take the trash out, and that's when he's going. That's tomorrow.

When you say he takes the trash out, are you saying because the

That's an expression in Washington.

But, what I oh, so I thought there was

a double meaning there, and that is they release bad news on Fridays because it doesn't get as much coverage.

That too. Yeah. That's the that this is gonna that that's what they're gonna do.

I bet it

happens tomorrow. Combine it with something else. They'll probably combine it with something else. Anyway, very quickly, Elon Musk might be getting his Tesla page package reinstated after the Delaware judge, her previous she reaffirmed her previous ruling in her 103 page opinion. I love this judge in Delaware.

Judge Kathleen McCormick says Tesla's lawyers had no grounds to reverse her January ruling based on evidence they created after trial. The pay package is initially worth more than $50,000,000,000 It's now worth a 100,000,000,000 thanks to Tesla's share price soaring in recent weeks. Tesla said it will peel the decision, and some experts suggest they might try to reconstitute the package and get approval in Texas, of course, Elon's favorite judge shopping. After the ruling, Elon, of course, attacked note to Sam Altman, attacked judge McCormack, calling her a radical far left activist cosplaying as a judge. Oh, she is not.

She is not. It's but I'm just saying this. Get ready, Sam, for Elon's attacks on you, which they he's already been doing. So any thoughts?

Yeah. I think she got it wrong, and I think she's eventually gonna get us money.

Oh, he is gonna get us money. I do too. I think so too.

The words she keep the judge kept using was fair. And if you wanna talk about CEO compensation, come over and we'll smoke cigarettes and eat ice cream and talk about fair. I think the board got it I think the board got it wrong, but the way corporate governance works in a corporation is that the shareholders nominate and elect directors, and the directors get to decide CEO compensation. And this is outrageous. I think that no person should be worth a third of a $1,000,000,000,000.

I think power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. But if you have a capitalist society, the way it works is the board gets to decide compensation. They decided it, and the shareholders effectively approved it. And so when judges start saying what type of compensation is fair or not fair, I believe it's government overreach. So as ridiculous as this as this is, I think the board got it wrong.

The way I think you handle this is through a more progressive tax policy. I think anyone making over a $1,000,000,000 to pay an alternative minimum tax of 80%. But the moment judges start talking about what is fair or not fair in compensation, I just think it's government overreach. I think she got this wrong.

Yeah. Well, she's reacting to a shareholder lawsuit too at the same time. Right? So Of

a minority of shareholders. Yeah. Yeah. The majority of shareholders have approved this pay package. Yeah.

It's true. He'll probably get it. He'll get it.

If you own a building, and you pay the the the maintenance people or the person running the building an outrageous amount of money, that's what you get to do if you own the building. And the majority, the owners of this company have decided he's gonna get a house.

I get it. I get it.

And also, I hate defending Elon Musk, but when they awarded the options package, it was worth single digit billions. So so in the analogy I would use is that if they can't if Tim Cook

it was always 40,000,000,000. I think it was always 40,000,000,000. But go ahead.

Go ahead. Anyways, if Tim Cook went to his biggest shareholders and said, we're worth 3,000,000,000,000, I think I can make this company worth 20,000,000,000,000. But in order to do that, and I'm the singular person who can do this, I want a $1,000,000,000,000. I think at that moment, a majority of shareholders might go, a $1,000,000,000,000 is ridiculous, but sure. If you can make this thing worth 20, we'll give you a 1,000,000,000,000.

And that's kinda what he did here. So, again, I think fairness and the support of the greatest innovation in history, the American middle class, is through a progressive tax structure. But a key component of capitalism is the owners of an asset get to decide what to do with it, including the compensation.

Yep. That's what I said. Someone was complaining about Patrick Soon Shong over at the LA Times like he owns it. I don't know what to tell you. He can put Scott Jennings, that smarty, you know, commentator on his thing if he wants.

He can do it if he wants. Same thing with Jeff Bezos, honestly. It's still untoward in this board. Let me let's just reiterate. This board is such a fallover for Elon board.

They're they're particularly in the tank because they also make a lot of money from him. So

They've made tens, if not 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars for just nodding their head and saying he's great.

Not a good board. Not a great board. If in the way I think of boards, which should be a little less slavish. Anyway, he's made him a lot of money, so there you have it. Okay.

Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. The question comes from David. Let's listen.

I've listened to the last few podcasts in which both of you discussed the various nominees Trump has put forward for cabinet and other important administration positions. My question for each of you has 2 parts. Which positions do each of you consider the most important positions and why? And second, if you were president, who would you nominate for the most important positions in your administration and why? Thanks.

My name is David.

Oh, that's interesting. That's a great question. I'll start. I think the department secretary of defense is critically important. The attorney general is critically important, and, obviously, the, treasury secretary.

So I if I was president Trump or if I'm me if I'm me, I would have picked different I probably would have picked Jamie Dimon for the treasury job for the head of the defense department. That's that would be interesting.

I don't I'd have

to think. Maybe oh, god. I wouldn't say Pete Buttigieg, but someone who's someone who served and who, who understands how to run big systems. There's lots of people like that. Certainly not Pete Hegseth, by any means.

I could run it better than him. And then the 3rd attorney general, someone, you know, not quite as partisan and who didn't deny the election like Pam Bondi. I do think she's actually has qualifications. There's no question she ran a big important states HSAG. She knows her way around the courtroom, as they say.

But I think those are the most important. But I I 1 of the ones, as we're just talking about this UnitedHealthcare thing, is the the health and human services director. I would make that Mark Cuban, you know, or someone like that to to you need to facilitate change in how health care goes in this country very drastically, and how we eat and the chemicals that are in our system, I completely agree with that. But this frigging nut job, RFK junior, who now looks good next to these other people, is is a disaster, especially around vaccines and everything else. So someone who respects science, I would say Mark Cuban for that job.

Your turn, Scott.

I would go I like the whole cable news as a cabinet strategy. I'd have Dana Bash. I'd have except I'd go another cable network. I think the people at CNN are so impressive. I think it should be president Dana Bash.

Her vice president is Anderson Cooper. And we laugh, but these people would be a hell of a lot more competent than the some of the people he's proposing now. Peter Hegseth and Peter Navarro, give me a fucking break, or or or Kesha Patel. These this would Michael Smir Khanish, I'd like to be secretary of commerce. I'd like to see I would there's so many outstanding.

I'd love to see Michael Bennett as secretary of education. I think Vivek Murthy as head of health and human services. I think he is an he is the most consequential surgeon general in history, bringing up loneliness and the stress on parents. There's a ton of fantastic oh, 0, I I would put together the hottest and most competent cabinet in history, and I give a AOC a job just because she's ridiculously fucking hot.

Mhmm.

Good. But Also And

it's important to have good looking people.

Okay.

But Ro Khanna would have a spot in there. I think Amy Klobuchar, I put it the head of the FTC or the DOJ. Is she a lawyer?

AJ. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

She wrote that big giant antitrust book. Remember? She's a good lawyer.

She's a lawyer. She's

Oh, she'd be a good AG. Oh, 0, yeah.

She's a You're right. Fucking gangster. She's not afraid of anybody. Yeah. I would have a ton of I I could oh my god.

Put give me the chessboard. I will put the pieces in the right place.

What would we be? What would be our job if you had to pick 1 of

the We do exactly what we're doing right now because our lives are really nice.

I understand. But if you had to take a cab, they said, here, Scott, you have to take 1 cab job. You don't have a choice.

Oh, easy. I'd I'd wanna be secretary of education.

Oh, wow. Interesting. Easy. What would you guess I would wanna be?

Head of the CIA.

That's right. That's right, my friend. That's correct. I'd spy on you.

You do spy on me. You fucking text me at 3 in the morning. You know what I'm doing at all moments.

I do know what you're doing at all moments, but I've gotta keep track of you because you're up to things. I last night, I was texting a variety of people. I'm not gonna say who, but well known people. And I was thinking, what is Scott up? I feel like Scott's up to something right now.

I don't know why, but I thought, is he up to something?

I was eating alone in the Cotswolds after taking an edible and listening to Tom Petty, and then taking my dogs for a long walk at night. Alright.

Okay. Well, I didn't know that. But at first second, I was like, what is he up to? What what little machinations is he up to? By the way, your other, girlfriend, your side piece, Jessica Jess Tarloff, texted me.

She's gonna

The hotter, younger?

The hotter, younger version of me. She she was gonna come to this dinner that in New York when she couldn't. But, she's gonna take my mom to see the 5, and I have to go.

Oh, that'll be great. That'll be great.

But will you come with me?

No way. 100% no. No. Oh, I'd also give speaking of Fox, I'd give Neil Cavuto a position. I like him.

Yeah. Okay.

I'd give Cavuto a position. God, this would be fun.

But

you left out Stephanie Ruhl. I can't believe it. She's gonna kill us. What would you give her?

Oh, she'd be ambassador to our most important like, I'd make her ambassador to I'd I'd just like I'd want her to be ambassador to France because she throw she would throw amazing parties at the residence in Paris.

No. We could go.

Yeah. No.

She should be ambassador.

She could be like Carrie Russell on the diplomat.

And she's got great style. I mean, she ambassador to France. That's an easy 1.

Ambassador to France. Okay. Alright. There we got it. Thank you, David.

We've made I need

you to be president so we can do this. Oh

my god. It would be so good.

I'll be the puppet master. I'll tell you exactly what to say, what to do, and you can just be

So you're like Steve Bannon?

Yeah. Bunch of

other Steve Bannon.

I get that a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. This will be fun.

I'll be good at this.

Seriously, I can't believe I'm more qualified to be the secretary of defense than Pete Hegseth, but it's true, and so are you. Alright. For the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's threads poll. Do you agree with Bezos and Altman? Will Trump and Elon not be as bad as we think?

Okay. Visit us on threads at pivot podcast official to vote.

I'm kinda I gotta admit it. I'm coming out of the closet as someone who's kind of excited about Doge. I don't like those guys, but I'm curious to see what they come up with.

Do you

know what? It would be great, except

Except them?

No. They never met a camera they didn't wanna fuck. And it's like they they do they drop stupid things like the Rivian things. This is a serious topic of reforming government, but they're doing it in the typical way of, look at the $600 toilet. Like, that's not it's fine to do those things, but creating outrageous, let's make it more efficient.

I again, I had a great discussion with Marc Benioff about this, the efficiency using AI, talking about it, honestly, getting along. If we did that, I would I would embrace it because government waste and and and fraud and everything else, of course. But government is not you know who wrote a great piece was Adam Leshinski in the Washington Post. I would I would turn your attention to that piece because he really did lay it out. He's like, sometimes, you know, to help the whole republic is not to be efficient, or some things don't work.

And to just needlessly attack Elon's needlessly attacking individual government employees because he thinks it's funny.

That that's that's unforgivable, naming people. That's dumb.

He's it's all about hate. It's all about government sucks.

Okay.

I think if you're serious, you 2, stop being such jazz hands. Look at me. Bullshit. Like, let's get and I get there's part of that is important, but it's all through the negative lens instead of again, I'd point to someone like Mark Cuban, the positive lens. What can we do to make this better and not demonize everybody?

And a lot of government employees are great employees, and they do not deserve this kind of

bullshit.

Even if we should have a more efficient government, I would agree. I would be on their team, except they're such assholes. I don't wanna be on their team.

I'm gonna hold my judgment for the recommendations. So, you know, there's there's just some interesting there's an it's catalyzing an interesting dialog. We have 5 air forces in the military. Do we need 5 air for I mean, there's just some interesting conversations here.

I wish they would go after the military. When they started to do that, everyone was like, yep oh. And I was pleased with that, and so was Bernie Sanders. Anyway, and I I love the military. I think it's important, but everything could be made more efficient.

It's just how you do it, and how you treat people when you're doing it. It's like laying people off. There Elon laid people off with cruelty, needless cruelty, and he didn't have to. You could lay people off, and so, anyway, maybe you could get nicer boys, but doubtful considering who you are. If you got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way.

Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 85551 Pivot. A big thanks to everyone who had Pivot on their Spotify wrap this year. Be sure to tag us on social media when you share your list. Scott, what was your did you look at your rap? What was it?

My rap?

I think this is a cool thing, and they did an AI movie on Spotify. You know, all the music you listen to?

Oh, yeah. And I I keep getting forwarded people who say that we're in their 1 of their top pods. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So what did you look at yours or not?

I haven't yet. No.

Can can you guess who my top artist was?

Taylor Swift?

Yes. And she was everybody's top artist.

Oh, my rapped. I just pulled it up. Do you wanna hear mine? Okay. Hold on.

Okay. What is it? Yeah. Go ahead. Tell us.

Alright. Top artist. Number 1, Electric Light Orchestra. Number 2, Calvin Harris. Number 3, Fleetwood Mac.

Number 4, Fine Young Cannibals. Number 5, Supertramp. Your top songs

You're living in the eighties nineties, Scott.

Wouldn't you? Did you have you seen pictures of me in the eighties? Seriously, that should work.

You've been putting out social media

things of social media things of very lovely songs, by the way. I like them a lot. That's how I

relax as I pretend I'm just

out I'm I'm in my junior year at UCLA. Right. And, anyways, my top songs were the safety dance, men

without hats.

That's a great 1. Enola Gay. Enola Gay, but I think that's orchestral maneuvers in the dark. You get oh, You Get What You Want by the new radicals. She Drives Me Crazy, again, The Fine Young Cannibals.

And Give A Little Bit by Supertramp. I'm shocked that Don't Bring Me Down or even The Losers by Tom Petty.

Can't believe Electric Light Orchestra, mister Blue Sky.

Former London Symphony musicians who kept seeing each other in studios doing serial commercials and said, let's start a rock band.

1979, hard highest charting hit in the United States was Don't Bring Me Down.

Another example of how the UK dominates IP, name a great American band, and I can name you 5 UK bands, and yet all the money is made in the US. Anyways, the original AI, they invented, and we monetize it.

So question, not Taylor Swift is your favorite? She was everybody else.

No. Taylor yeah. No. I'm stuck in the eighties.

Okay. You are. It was that's lovely. Electric Light Orchestra. I haven't thought of them in a 100 years.

Anyway, Scott, 1 more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

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Okay, Scott. Don't bring me down. Let's hear a prediction.

I've been taking these ridiculously long walks with my dogs. I have weird predictions. The first is sort of a serious 1. I think that we're so focused on some of the stuff domestically that the biggest news are usually things we're not thinking about. I think you're gonna see an uprising in the beginning of potentially what is a revolution in Iran.

Iran's proxies of which they've invested tens of 1,000,000,000 of dollars over the last couple decades, the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and now Syria, which is in the midst of its own uprising, has essentially had their hands cut off. And I think a lot of the people within Iran you know, you shouldn't say Iran. You should when you're talking about the leadership there, you should talk about the Islamic regime or the Islamic Republic because the Iranian people, in my view, this is a this is a leadership that is corrupt, incredibly, I think the Ayatollah is sitting on a house of cards right now, or Khomeini, I should say. And I think that the, Bashar al Assad's weakness, the 2nd largest city, Aleppo, has been taken by rebels or or HTS. I don't know how to pronounce his name.

But I think effectively, Iran is more vulnerable right now than they have been in a couple decades. And I imagine, adversarial, parties within the country since that and will strike soon. So 2025, I think the biggest or or 1 of the biggest news stories will be an uprising in Iran, based on

be great if an incumbent lost power in that regard. An incumbent lost power.

Oh, yeah.

You know, we're talking about incumbents losing power across the globe.

Well, I mean, Hamas has the support of the Palestinian people. The Islamic regime does not in Iran. And, and I think that all of their proxies being weakened, and also all of their buffer states, you know, Iranian air defenses are really vulnerable right now. Israel, it's really weird. The Middle East is being dictated by 3 non Arab nations.

It's really, it's really Iran, Israel, and you could argue Turkey right now, which is kinda filling that vacuum. I mean and Assad was gonna turn to Russia. Russia has its own issues in Ukraine. I think all of the cards, all of the tea leaves are turning up really bad for Iran right now, and I think domestic domestic rebel forces or people who wanna overthrow this regime, which I think the west would like to see, probably feel more jonesed up and confident right now than they've been in a while. More that's a serious prediction.

I have a less serious prediction. Alright.

Okay. This is Scott Sicario. We have Scott Sicario going on here. Go ahead.

Go ahead.

I'm dumb. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. Oh, Fareed Sicario, secretary of state. Boom. I'm so good at this.

Mhmm. Okay. Alright. Move along.

Oh, freed freed? That guy's

a genius.

Sort of.

I don't care. That guy's a genius. Surround him with a few buffers? Fine. But that guy that guy's a clear blue flame thinker.

Kind of.

Nice man too. Anyway

Not every time. Go ahead.

Who is every time? Anyways, so, my second 1 is a little bit more, I don't know, trivial, but equally profound. And that is I think that you're gonna see a strike, another strike, but I think it's gonna be by the world's top football players. Oh. And that is because of the outrageous explosion in value, of these teams, a lot of the owners are trying to monetize it and meet the demand of the sport, which is growing exponentially by creating more fixtures and more international competitions.

And there's this weird dynamic in football where a 22 year old can basically play every fucking day. But by the time you're 26 or 28, which is what the best players in the world when they peak, they're getting fed up and they're getting injured, and they are playing around the calendar. And I think that that's hit a bit of a breaking point because the best players in the world are the ones with the most demands on them physically. And I think with the announcement, like FIFA, which has always been a a tad corrupt, if if tad means a lot, has just announced another tournament, another fixture. I think it's at a breaking point, and you're gonna see the best players in the world decide we've had enough of the 1 strike.

Anyways

Although getting paid, you saw Larry Ellison's wife who I no 1 knew she had gotten married. She was a University of Michigan person. They grabbed that that player from Louisiana. Everyone in Louisiana was crying, and Larry paid $12,000,000 to get this call. I like them getting paid.

I don't know. I like college students getting paid.

It is ridiculous. This notion that somehow the NC 2A, which pays themselves a shit ton of money and then wraps himself in some sort of bullshit purity of college athletics, figures out a way to pick to pay the 55 year old white guy on the court 3,000,000 a year, but all the black kids on the court, no. No. It's the purity of the sport. It is, I mean, enough already.

Yeah. Absolutely let these kids get paid.

$12,000,000. I love that.

Good for him, man.

And Larry Ellison, just like here she the peep Alex called me, like, beyond belief excited. And, of course, someone from Louisiana was like, how dare they do that? I'm like, what are you talking about? You deserve the money.

Free market. Free

market. Anyway, good predictions. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week on Prof g Markets, Scott spoke with Michael Sailor. Great idea. The founder and executive chairman and perfectly timed of MicroStrategy to discuss MicroStrategy's decision to become a Bitcoin Treasury and why it emerged as the best performing stock in the s and p 5 100 this year.

Let's listen.

Volatility is fire. If you're a normie, you run away from fire. If you're Henry Ford, you put the fire into an engine. You put it in a horseless carriage, and you create an automobile, and now people can go. And then you put it into a plane and a train.

You see? So engineers are putting volta you know, you're a nuclear reactor in the spaceship. It's scary. In the submarine, But Bitcoin is is like the financial fuel. These things are crypto reactors.

It's a technically better way to do this, and it's the volatility that's actually the motor that's driving the portfolio or the Treasury forward.

That was really good. I liked it. I really enjoyed listening to that. I was gonna talk to him.

The number 1 the best performing stock in the S and P, number 2's NVIDIA, number 1, MicroStrategy. I mean, this guy took a business intelligence firm that was worth, I don't know, a couple $1,000,000,000, and he levered up the company to buy He did. Bitcoin. And then now he's just he's just issued 0 coupon bonds, which means he doesn't have to pay interest to buy even more, and his stock is up 7 fold this year. And you listen to this guy speak.

I'm skeptical of the whole space. I think partly, 1, because I've missed out on the bull run. And 2, I've I don't like the idea of the and replacing the dollar. I think it's it's like the kind of invisible aircraft carrier for us.

Dangerous.

And also, I do think there's some real downsides that Bitcoin maximalists, including Michael, don't don't acknowledge in terms of the danger of it funding. I think it's good occasionally where we see the flows of power and money. But anyways, but I've known Michael for 20 years. The thing I like about him in this he is the voice the space needs because he's not only a very effective cheerleader, evangelist, whatever you wanna call it, advocate. I have known him for a couple decades.

He's a nice man, and he never he doesn't start calling you a pedophile if you're not a Bitcoin maximalist like the rest of the Bitcoin Taliban or the crypto Taliban. He's not in jail. He's he's actually quite a I've known him enough long enough to say this about him. He's a generous, nice man. That's the voice they need right now because the other the other folks to hyping this thing or evangelizing it are not nice people, or they generally don't acquit themselves well.

You're either you're either sign up for their religion or you're an apostate. So anyways, but the conversation, it's already, I think, our most downloaded pod so far this year. But this guy, you wanna talk about balls of steel. He's kinda the Elon Musk we want. He took this enormous risk that paid off enormously, but he didn't start accusing people of sex crimes along the way.

Well, that that's the lowest bar, but, yes, indeed. I it was a great I was thrilled that you interviewed him. It was great. I recommend everyone listen to it. It was terrific.

I listened to it yesterday. Okay, Scott. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.

Today's show is produced by Lara Naimen, Zoyan Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd entered into this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Severio, and Dan Schulan. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.