Transcript of 4 | The Nature of Crime Scenes New

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They called me and they asked me to come in and talk to them, and I wouldn't. And then they said they found her— found her in the bathroom with bread balls.

In July of 2021, police finally find the original reports from my mom's 1993 investigation that I had asked for 9 months earlier. I'm overwhelmed holding these pages in my hands that I'd waited so long to read. Would I finally find the answers I've been looking for?

Come out, come out, wherever you are, I'll find you.

Episode 4, The nature of crime scenes.

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I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psyche. In our latest episode, we go inside the case of Lindsay Clancy, The postpartum psychosis defense, and the stunning mistrial that just reignited a national debate. Listen to Killer Psyche on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

Looking at the reports confirms that the case was originally considered a homicide, just like Louise first told me, and that my mom was found exactly as everyone described. The responding officer refers to, quote, some of the suspicious conditions. I'm quoting the report here. There were small tufts of the victim's hair found all around the apartment. She was found in the nude on the bathroom floor with slices of bread all around her. The victim herself had pieces of hair wrapped around her left hand and around one foot. The refrigerator in the kitchen was found to be unplugged, and there was food still inside. There were 2 empty glasses found on the table and a small plastic tub of some sort of food salad. And there's more. A witness statement from a man named Henry, who police call my mom's boyfriend.

It wasn't boyfriend-girlfriend. You got to get that out of your head.

Louise says Henry was more of a so-called sugar daddy to my mom. An older man who helped her out when she needed it. No, I, I believe you.

Fucking trick.

I believe you. Yeah, when you're just somebody's— you're, you're screwing somebody and they're paying you, right?

But his mind was so fucking whatever. She could call him at midnight and say, bring me, bring me up a book of matches. He would be like, I'm on my way.

Wow.

So see what I'm trying to say?

She just—

she used— I don't want to say this. I'm gonna say it so you understand.

Yeah, yeah.

She used and abused him for what she wanted.

Such a nice way to talk about your best friend. But it turns out there's another connection here.

But what I know— I mean, well, I know I went to school with his daughters. His daughters are ahead of me a little bit.

Is he still alive?

He's dead.

So I guess I won't be talking to Henry.

And, you know, well into my late 20s, at this middle 20s when I met him, uh, after my first divorce, about 23.

Yeah.

So I said, I need a ride up to IHM to visit my best friend Lori. And he goes, oh, who's— what's— who's Lori? I said, um, Lori Malloy. She went to school with me. We were best friends. I said, um—

So my mom met Henry through Louise, and Henry was interviewed by police when they were treating my mom's death as a homicide. Is there anyone in this case not connected to Louise? But back to Henry's witness statement. It says that around 1 PM on Sunday, March 7th, 1993, Henry goes to the police seeking a welfare check for my mom. He tells them he hasn't seen her in about a week since they got into an argument about her supposed cocaine use. An officer goes with Henry to our apartment. The landlord's family, the ones I recently met with, let them into the front door of the building. They find our apartment door ajar. The officer calls out for my mom—

Hello?

Lori?

—but gets no response.

Miss Malloy?

The officer hears the sound of running water, and they go inside. He sees the place is a mess. Then he sees a woman's body lying between the bathroom and kitchen floor. Henry is following the officer, and the officer notes that when Henry sees the scene, he says, oh my God.

Oh my God.

The officer orders Henry outside and calls for backup. The paramedics arrive, but my mom is obviously dead, so they leave and detectives are dispatched to the scene. It's immediately labeled a homicide. And in 1993, Henry is looked at as a prime suspect. It's so crazy to me that you were the lieutenant who took the original 10-56 call from the responding officer.

Sure.

I talked to Joe Broadbentow, a retired captain from the East Providence Police Department, who was a lieutenant in charge when my mom's body was found. Joe sent detectives to the scene and knew all the officers involved, including the one who accompanied Henry to the apartment.

That created a problem.

By all accounts, that officer was a great guy and good at his job, but his decision to allow Henry inside the crime scene may not have been the best idea.

Because if Henry was, in fact, involved, one of the things we have to prove was that he was there. Well, we brought him there, so of course he was there. And in the crime scene, the thing about a crime scene is if you were at a crime scene, you always leave something behind and you always take something with you. Okay, that's a reality of the nature of, of crime scenes. A hair might fall out. You know, you probably lost 10 hairs today. You don't have any idea of it.

That's true.

Right? You don't know where they went, but they've— you've left, and you stepped on— you, you walked into a CVS pharmacy and you stepped on their floor. Perhaps you picked up something from that floor. So there are those issues you have to be aware of. Uh, the O.J. Simpson case is probably the best example of that, where those LA detectives took the blood samples that they had recovered from the scene and brought it to another scene.

Did you see the evidence moved as the bodies were moved? And by the evidence, I mean the cap, the glove, and that envelope.

Did you see that evidence moved?

No.

That is basic, basic police work, is you never contaminate the scene.

The police reports state that over 14 items are taken into evidence.

But I did find out another thing I promised you I would.

I found out, as far as evidence goes, I talked to Louise about the police report to see how she'll react.

Oh. The evidence that they had back in the day.

Evidence pertaining to what?

To my mom's homicide.

So—

Oh, baby.

Yeah, this was something I requested. And they have a whole bunch of evidence. They found a whole— so there were a lot of different human hairs. That they took. They took a human hair. I noted all these. Human hair was off the kitchen rug, off the kitchen floor, off the sneakers that were in the living room. They found— they took a yellow-colored infant sweater from the master bedroom bed.

You should say, yeah, it's mine. Give it back.

Yeah, right.

I know.

That's mine. They did find, uh, there was a pink-colored towel that had mucus on it from the master bedroom bed. Um, bottom, bottom sheet from the bed in the master bedroom. Um, top bed sheet with apparent hair from the master bedroom.

Oh my God.

Um, human hair off the rug in the master bedroom. Human hair from the chest of drawers in the infant's room.

Um, do you know your mother had a lot, and I mean a lot, of fucking hair on her head?

Yes.

And do you know it's normal for people with a lot of hair to shed? I think my hairdresser said it's normal to shed 100 strands of hair a day. I think if your, your mother had a fucking mange of hair— beautiful, gorgeous fucking hair.

Yeah, yeah. Well, they, um, they found her hair and they found other people's hair. So they found—

of course, probably found mine. I had a lot of hair too. I've been up there a few times.

So I tell Louise that the police had hair as evidence, and she immediately says they probably found her hair there.

Well, I'm, I'm sure that they found yours. I'm sure they found Allison's. But whoever is— like, they took a whole bunch of hairs from whoever this other person was. They took all their hairs.

There's a reason I'm telling Louise all of this. My mom was known for her dark, dark, almost black hair, and one of the samples found is referred to as light brown. So that wouldn't belong to my mom. Who does it belong to?

They took, um, the comforter from the bed in the master bedroom. They took an address book in the kitchen, and they took the 2 drinking glasses from the kitchen table.

The 2? Out of everything you said? Out of everything you said?

I know. So a fucking Nonsense and bullshit.

The only thing that you said that could go— that's gonna prove something is the 2 glasses off the motherfucking table. Yeah, those are the 2 people that were there last. One's gonna come back, Mommy, and the other one's coming back, Peter.

Peter, the guy from New Hampshire who Louise could have sworn was my real father before I set her straight.

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Back to Henry. He's brought into the police station and questioned as a suspect. The reports say he speaks freely without a lawyer and is open about the fight he had with my mom.

Anybody is capable of murder, but capable of murder under the proper circumstances.

Joe Broadmeadow actually knew Henry, so I asked him if he thinks that he could have been involved in my mom's death.

You know, somebody's trying to hurt your child, sure.

Oh yeah.

Capable of killing somebody? Absolutely. Somebody trying to hurt your family? Absolutely. No doubt about it. Killing somebody because you're angry with them? Yeah. Or fight? Or killing somebody just—

yeah.

You know, just because somebody told you to kill somebody, you know, that's a whole different kind of person. These cases are— they're never as clear-cut as TV would like to portray. And that's the problem with a lot of people. You know, most people, that's their experience.

What was your opinion of Henry?

Henry was not a— he wasn't a violent guy. There's a certain kind of personality that goes along with some areas of East Providence. Where he wasn't necessarily— he wasn't necessarily cordial to cops, but, but, but then again, if push came to shove, he wasn't somebody you had to worry about pulling a gun on you and shooting you.

Right.

Like everybody else, he had his good points and his, you know, good moments and his bad moments. You know, people talking to cops are going to be nervous.

Yes.

You know, when you pick somebody up or you bring them in and say, you know, come on in, we have to talk to you, and, you know, you purposely don't tell them why, Well, they start going through in their head everything they did wrong in their last— in their life, thinking, oh my God, he found out about this.

Yeah.

You know, and you sit them down and they're going to be nervous. You know, that's a— that's a net, you know, it's actually the people who are not nervous. The only people who fall asleep in interview room are guilty people because they know they did it, you know.

Yeah.

They got nothing, you know. It's somebody who's not guilty who's terrified. They're there for something they didn't do. They're not going to fall asleep. They're going to pace the room. They're going to be like, Like fidgety. If you fall asleep, something's wrong then.

Even though Henry is very open with the police, from their notes, it seems like he is visibly shaken. Interestingly, the person who doesn't seem that upset in their police interview is my mom's sister, my Aunt Allison, the one who adopted me. According to the police reports, Allison is interviewed by a detective at 3:00 PM that afternoon. In her statements, she says she was watching me because my mom wasn't feeling well. She says, quote, I last saw my sister on Monday, March 1st, 1993. She came over to bring some extra clothes for the baby. She told me that she was still not feeling good. Allison says she went over to see my mom several times because she was getting more and more concerned. I talked about her police statement in my TikTok series. Hey guys, okay, so part 6 of my mom's case. Allison's pretty calm and collected and gives details about my mom's wild life before she had me. She's like, I don't know her friends, I don't know who had a key to her place, she was schizophrenic and had addiction issues. The funny thing is nothing in my mom's notes pointed to schizophrenia.

She was logical Organized and coherent, but okay. I've also asked everyone I speak to who knew my mom what they know about her having schizophrenia.

I could take patients home for 2 weeks. Well, I had her for 2 years.

Cookie took in my mom after a stay at a mental hospital where she worked.

Did she ever seem schizophrenic with you?

No.

At all.

She never was talking about hearing—

She didn't have a thing in her body like that.

Everyone has said there were no signs of schizophrenia, so I'm not sure where Allison got that from. The addiction issues are documented, but remember, the tox report on the autopsy was clean. And as far as not knowing any of my mom's friends, we know that Allison was aware of at least one friend of my mom's, Louise. But I find it hard to believe she didn't know any others. Either way, you'd think she'd try and come up with some names to give the police in order to help find out what happened to her own sister. Wasn't she so worried about her being sick that she kept checking in on her? After looking through Allison's police statement, I want to talk to her about the time leading up to my mom's death. Now remember, Allison adopted me after my mom died, but we've never had a good relationship and still aren't close. We've only spoken a few times since I evicted her from my dad's house after he died.

When was the last time you talked to her?

I tracked down her new address close to my dad's old house and happened to spot her one day as I drive by. She's standing outside holding a red Solo cup and smoking a cigarette. I pull up beside her and At first, she pretends not to hear me, but I put my car in park and tell her I just have a few questions that need to be answered about her sister's death. She looks at me, and I start asking questions about her and my mom.

Uh, the last time I talked to her was when Grandma left for Florida, and she was gonna go stay with her new boyfriend, who's Peter. Her parents had a house in what?

New Hampshire?

And she was going to go there.

New boyfriend with a house in New Hampshire. That sounds like the rich boyfriend Peter, who Louise keeps bringing up.

But I know—

but I know more than you do. Okay, if you know more than me, then who the fuck was Peter? Peter was the new boyfriend that she just met.

I don't even know.

Where did she meet him?

No clue.

How did she meet him?

No clue.

What else did she tell you about him?

Nothing.

At the time, they thought it was Henry. But who thought that it was Henry? It does matter who thought— You need to ask them. No, I'm asking you as somebody who was there in 1993. It was your sister's murder and we're investigating it, so I need to know what you know about it. I was not there. Okay, so when was— I was taking care of my Her baby.

Interesting, Allison trips up here and says my baby, referring to me, until she catches herself. It might seem like nothing, but it reminds me of something I noticed reading her 1993 witness statement. She tells the police how my mom was upset that I'd been acting up. Then she changes her statement at the end and clarifies the baby, me, had only been acting up the last couple of days. which is when I would have been with her. So she puts herself in my mom's shoes there as well. I'm not sure if any of this is significant, but it does strike me as odd. As far as I know, Allison taking care of me before my mom died wasn't really a regular thing. I asked her about that witness statement.

You took a witness statement and you never mentioned anything about Henry, Peter or anyone else.

Why?

Of course I did.

You didn't.

Well, when they called me from the state, they told me that I knew all about Henry and this guy named Peter.

How's that?

They're not telling you. So why— but why wouldn't you have said that to police in 1993?

I did.

I'm not gonna argue with this.

I did.

Because there's no point in arguing. I have Allison's 1993 police statement that she signed And it doesn't mention Peter or Henry anywhere. And why have I only heard about Peter from Louise and now Allison? Why did neither of them tell the police about him?

It may have been a heart, Lauren. It wasn't her heart. The chief medical examiner's already said that.

Allison's clearly trying to divert the conversation, and it's impossible to get a straight answer from her.

What was your last conversation? Lauri, where are you? You were gonna pick her up.

Come on.

Richard and I are going out. Where are you?

You're supposed to be here now.

How'd you find out she died? Ask— ask everyone.

Ask them. Ask them.

Ask who?

Ask—

ask the—

what, Peter? The, uh, investigator? The investigator's name isn't Peter.

Look at the— Alison is as helpful to me as she was to the police. In 1993, police also questioned my mom's friend Rebecca, who you heard from before in episode 2.

We were close. She was like my big sister.

Yeah.

Rebecca was just a kid when her mom, Cookie, took in my mom. In her witness statement, Rebecca tells the police that, quote, Lori had told me in the past that she had been doing drugs since she was 14 and doing tricks since then also. This isn't surprising and supports Louise referring to Henry as my mom's trick. Rebecca adds, I knew that her baby wasn't with her, so I didn't have to be concerned about that. Rebecca says she spoke to my mom a week before she was found.

So upset, I didn't think of it until they asked me. But yes, she sounded high on drugs, which is not uncommon for my big girl. But these weren't the kind of drugs she did. She didn't do this.

Really?

You know what I mean?

That's how she sounded? If you— all right, if you were talking like her—

Very slow.

That's interesting.

Like as if she was fighting the drug, trying to stay awake. And so something was going on in that fucking apartment. Excuse my language.

No. Yeah.

Somebody was pulling clumps of fucking Hair out of her head and somebody took her life. She knew how to do moderation. She wasn't a junkie junkie. She just— to be honest, your mother did it recreationally.

That's—

I've never seen your mother whacked out, out of control. She's always looked respectable, even high. She handled herself very well. So no one can ever fucking call her a junkie or anything. She was— anything she played, she played it to the— with high class and balls.

This is the first I've heard about my mom sounding like she was on drugs in the days leading up to her death. I know she was known to use drugs, but this is more specific than I've heard before. I wonder why no one else mentioned this. And then how was her tox screen clear? In her 1993 statement, Rebecca also says that it sounded like someone was with my mom. Who could that have been? Was it Peter? Louise? Someone else entirely? It probably wasn't Henry because Rebecca says Henry had called her when he was looking for my mom. That made Rebecca nervous, so she called the police. What about that call made you call police?

Because I didn't hear from her in 7 days.

And that wasn't usual for you?

And that was very, very unusual because she always called me.

Yeah.

And I called the police and I said, I haven't heard from her in 7 days and I think something's wrong. Yeah. And— I had to call them, like, 3 times or whatever it was.

Rebecca says 7 days went by where she couldn't get a hold of my mom. But in her 1993 statement, she says she called on either Tuesday, March 2nd, or Wednesday, March 3rd, which is 4 or 5 days. It probably just felt like longer.

Whew.

Um. Did they call you back? Did they have you go into the station? Like, how did you find out that she passed?

Because they called me and they asked me to come in and talk to them, and I went in, and then they said they found her— found her in the bathroom with bread bowls.

So there were at least 4 days unaccounted for where my mom could have been lying on the floor Dead and alone. This could be confirmed had the medical examiner taken the temperature of her body when they found it, but he didn't. The only temperature listed is what the thermostat was set to, 72 degrees. This is why in my email to the medical examiner back in January 2021, I asked if there was any estimated time of death, because otherwise there's no real way to know exactly how long my mom was lying there. All the current chief medical examiner could tell me was that he believed she was dead about an hour before she was found by the police at around 1:00 PM, but that it likely took several hours for her to die based on the weight of her lungs. Based on all this, the estimated time of death was likely between 8:00 and 11:00 AM of the morning she was found. But where was my mom for the days before she died when Rebecca couldn't get a hold of her? Even if it was just that morning that she died, hearing that it took hours for my mom to die alone in our apartment rips my heart out.

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On January 24th, 2023, in Duxbury, Massachusetts, Patrick Clancy called 911. He had found his wife, Lindsay, badly injured and his 3 children dead and dying. What followed would become one of the most searing and complicated cases in recent memory, raising hard questions about motherhood, mental illness, and how far our justice system will go to understand what really happened. I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psyche, In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Lindsay Clancy, the postpartum psychosis defense, the courtroom battle, and the trial that just ended in a stunning mistrial. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now.

Join Audible in the Audible app Did you ever think it could have been that guy Henry who called? Like, did you ever meet him or anything?

Well, Henry and Louise are the only 2 that stand out to me.

It seems pretty clear to me that Henry wasn't involved except for trying to help my mom. And obviously the police in 1993 agreed with me because they didn't hold him. But hearing Rebecca name Louise as standing out to her, that piques my interest, obviously. But on top of wondering who took my mom's life, I also have questions about how it was taken. All the current ME has said is that it wasn't natural causes. That leaves so many possibilities. It makes me wonder how they would have done it. Like, there were 2 drinking glasses on the table. The drinking glasses were empty.

It'd have been—

so apparently somebody else was there.

Yeah.

And the door was left open. There was also—

They killed her. Of course they didn't. What are they going to do, lock the door and shut it and all that?

No, there was—

get the fuck out of there.

Right.

And there was also, like, some leftover— it looked like food salad, like a macaroni salad or something on the table. So it makes me wonder, did somebody put something in her drink? Did they put something in the salad? And, like, Just, you know, it was never found because they weren't looking for poison when they were testing her. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

This talk of salad reminds me of something that Louise said.

You know, I was having a barbecue for my— one of my son's birthdays. I have 2 kids, right? And Warren, I said, love, are you coming? Your mother made the potato salad. Mother made a killer, killer, killer fucking potato salad.

On its own, that seems like an innocuous statement, and I didn't register it at the time. But that's not the only time Louise mentioned it. She talks about it on another call too.

Yeah, we were talking about mashed potatoes. Okay. 'Cause I love to cook. I've always loved to cook. And I said, Lori, do me a favor, give me the recipe because I wanted to make one fucking mean, mean potato salad.

Did she?

Really? She told me she wrote down, you know, the ingredients to make the potato salad. She wrote down about potato salad.

The fact that Louise repeatedly talks about my mom's potato salad when there was some sort of macaroni or potato salad on the table by her when she died seems strange to me. Could Louise be trying to hint something to me, or does she just really love my mom's potato salad? I have so many questions, and I'm trying my hardest to get them answered, even 30 years after my mom's death.

I'd like to find out if it was— somebody killed her.

Rebecca's mom, Cookie, who was a surrogate mom to my own mother, has questions too.

I believe it was because Lori— And they had to be— I don't know. They must have had to knock her out or something.

You think so?

Yeah, because she would have fought back.

The thing that's always bothered me is how the scene was found. So the front door's open. She's naked. She's got some bruises on her.

Oh, yeah. It was a guy.

You think there was a guy involved?

Oh, yeah. There was a guy. Probably a girl, too.

I think what made me think that there might have been a girl involved was the clumps of hair everywhere.

Yeah.

What makes you think?

She pulled because the girl and her was probably into it, and then the guy went into it.

You think so?

Yeah, that's what happened.

Why do you think somebody would have killed her though?

I don't know. She was a good kid.

Yeah.

I agree with Cookie that my mom would have been able to hold her own against one person, especially another woman. She was tall and strong, and my half-brother Tommy told me she taught him how to fight, so I know she knew how. But I still have no clue why anyone would want to kill my mom. It seems like everyone loved her. Back in 1993, by the time the police interviewed those few people— Henry, Allison, and Rebecca— they received the medical examiner's report stating that my mom's death was natural.

So just like that, Once the medical examiner were to make a determination one way or the other, if they determined anything but natural causes, then the investigation obviously would continue.

Retired Police Captain Joe Broadmeadow explains.

Well, I reread the investigative reports that you sent, and then I, you know, once I recalled actually having gone over this case, you know, there was nothing unusual about about what went on. Police officers are essentially trained to always look for things that are unusual.

Mm-hmm.

And those are, those are placed in the report, obviously. They're mentioned in a report. But someone who doesn't have a lot of experience in reviewing police reports, or someone who has never been at the scene of a sudden death, might say, well, the chair was knocked over. There must have been a, there must have been a disturbance. It must have been, you know, a struggle. You know, not necessarily. You know, there's all sorts of other explanations.

You know, I know for sure that some people have expressed frustration with how they believe that the original investigation was handled. You know, some have even gone so far as to suggest, oh, there could have been a cover-up of some sort. But I think when you break it down like that, it shows how it was handled versus, you know, what the medical examiner said. In '93, which was, oh, natural causes, and then the case is closed.

Yeah.

It seems very clear that the East Providence Police Department did things by the book, closing the case as soon as the medical examiner ruled it as natural causes. But it's also clear they were working from a false set of assumptions. So while the East Providence Police Department had no reason to continue looking into the the case back in 1993, I have one now. As I'm going through the witness statements from '93, something stands out to me. In Henry's statement, he mentions a man he saw going into my mom's apartment the last day he was with her. The police showed him a photo spread, and Henry identified him as my mom's cocaine dealer, Darren. I realized that when we cleaned out my dad's house, I'd found some pictures of Darren tucked into an old pile of mail in my dad's bedroom, of all places. One photo in particular is of Darren and his wife Kim. They're all dressed up like something out of Miami Vice and posing in the middle of our living room. And in front of them is 15-month-old me. On the back, My mom has written New Year's, January 1993. So just a few months before she was found dead.

I also remember that Louise has mentioned Darren to me before on our calls.

I also have a childhood friend.

His name is Darren.

Of course, that's not surprising at this point.

Now, Darren has an older sister, Donna. So I forgot where me and Lori was, probably at my apartment, I had the baby.

Yeah.

I was sitting around the house, you know, girls bullshitting. Donna probably bounced over the house to say hello because we all live, you know, close. And that's when I introduced Donna to Lori, my buddy. And, you know, Lori liked Donna, Donna liked Lori. Very cool chick. They hit it off. So, um, you know, every now and again Or we would call Donna, you know, what are you doing? What are you doing? You know, you got your weed? Yeah, I got some weed. I'm going to stop. Can you come over and get me high? Sure, I'll come over and get you high.

Oh, okay. So you introduced her to Donna. Okay.

And then—

and then how your sister met Darren, which would be Donna's younger brother, you know.

Hold on. Interrupting Louise for a minute here, because did you catch that?

And then— and then how Your sister met—

Does Louise think I'm my mom's sister, my Aunt Allison? It seems like she's always mixing me up with my mom or Allison. It's really weird, but especially since she claims to hate Allison and never talked to her. Yet another mystery. But anyway, back to Louise's story.

And then, and then how your sister met Darren, which would be Donna's younger brother. You know, uh, oh, okay. Now listen, so Darren knew a lot of people, you know, hometown knew a lot of people.

So if you're looking for a $20 bag, you can call Darren.

Call that— Donna, call your brother Darren, see if he'll bring us a $20.

So it sounds like Darren was my mom's drug dealer, just like Henry said in his statement. And in a roundabout way, my mom was hooked up with him by Louise. Once again, All roads lead back to Louise.

But I was speaking to Darren recently, and I said, listen, I said, Lauren, la la la la la la la la la, she would like to speak to you and your wife, and just so you can shed light on any good or bad you can about her mother.

Yeah.

Darren looked at me, he goes, Louise, no. He goes, first of all, you know my wife. I said, I know.

Why?

What is it?

But Kim seems like she was such a nice lady, right?

But Kim isn't very social. So anyway, I said to them, will you speak to Lauren? I'll call her now.

Yeah.

And he said no. He goes, Louise, just tell Lauren this: my mother always had a smile, she was a good person, and I miss her. He goes, I can't tell Lauren anything much more than that.

So he— but my mom wrote about him, like she Obviously she partied with him on the, like, her last New Year's weekend. I've got all the pictures.

Kim had me in her lap and everything.

I was in the picture with him, her, and Darren, like, you know. And my mom wrote about them. They were friends. Like, she liked them. I'm not— I don't give a fuck if he's a dealer. Who gives a shit? It's fucking 2021. Great, good for you.

But he, he just feels like he can't add anything.

Uh, he probably could though. That's the thing, like, the tiniest things, you never freaking know.

Look, Darren may not want to talk to me, but I want to talk to him. So in August 2021, 14 months after I first heard from Louise, I decide to track him down myself. He lives in East Providence, Rhode Island, less than a mile from my old house and 10 miles from where I live now. Let me tell you, when I texted you when I pulled up in front of his house— Obviously, I tell my best friend Ramona about this before setting off with my iPhone recorder to show up unannounced at a known drug dealer's house. Mind you, a drug dealer who was placed at my mom's home soon before she died. I was like, if you don't hear from me in like 2 hours— I was like, call me as soon as you're done or I'm going over. I remember walking up to that house. It was like the longest walk of my life. And then knocking on the door and hearing Hearing his dog barking and him being like, oh, it's a police dog. And I was just like, I don't care what kind of dog it is, right? Like, open the door, we're having a talk.

He could have just said to you, I don't know your mom, get out of my— get out of my doorway, get off my property, and let his dog loose. Darren opens the door, and as soon as he realizes who I am, he has a look on his face like, okay. This day is finally here.

Hey, not a good time.

Why?

What's up?

This has been My Mom's Murder, an Audible original produced by Audible and AYR Media and hosted by me, Lauren Malloy. Executive produced by MGM Television and Toluca Pictures. Executive producer for AYR Media, Aliza Rosen. Executive producer for Audible, Lara Regan Kleinschmidt. Executive producer for Toluca Pictures, Stacy Levin. Executive producers, Lauren Malloy and Chloe Grace Moretz. Produced and written by Michelle Simon. Edited and mixed by Tristan Bankston. Coordinator for AYR Media, Andy Levine. Audio engineering and mastering by Justin Longerbeam. Theme music by Jonatha Brooke. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas. Head of creative development at Audible, Kate Navin. Chief content officer, Rachael Ghiazzo. Copyright 2024 by AYR Media. Sound recording copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC.

Journalist Tristan Redmond goes where no son-in-law should ever go, deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best bingeable series, like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.