Transcript of A House Divided (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE) New

On a Monday morning in February of 2003, a man in suburban France got a phone call from a number that he recognized, so he answered it. But instead of the familiar voice he expected, all he heard on the other end was static and muffled voices somewhere in the background. He put his phone on speaker mode so his wife could listen, and the two of them listened closely to figure out, like, who's calling me, what is this? And as they listened, they were able to barely make out a conversation happening between two women who they didn't know. And these two women were clearly talking about a murder.

And one of the women said they needed to come up with an alibi. But before we get into today's story, if you're a fan of the strange, dark, and mysterious delivered in story format, then you've come to the right place because that's all we do. And we upload 2, 3, even 4 times every week. So if that's of interest to you, in the dead of winter sneak into the Followbuttons' house and cut off all the sleeves to their coats and jackets. Also, please subscribe to our channel and turn on all notifications so you don't miss any of our weekly uploads.

Okay, let's get into today's story.

On the afternoon of Friday, February 7th, 2003, a 52-year-old woman named Monique Lejeune cleared the table after lunch at her house in Colugna, France. Her husband Claude and two of her adult sons, Franck and Pascal, were at the table, and while Monique cleaned up, the men talked over what they needed to pack for the overnight trip they were about to take. They were heading to a family gathering near Paris, about 3.5 hours away, to celebrate Claude's sister-in-law's retirement. Monique was not gonna go, and she had told her family it was because somebody had to stay home with their 4 dogs. And that was true, but there also was another real reason why Monique did not want to be there, and it was because she just didn't get along very well with Claude's family.

So Monique and Claude had gotten married almost 20 years earlier, but at the time they both already had multiple kids from previous marriages. Monique had 3 boys and Claude had 5 girls. And for a while, the 2 halves of the blended family had gotten along quite well. But over time, there were some personality clashes between Monique and her 5 stepdaughters. When Monique and Claude got married, all 5 girls were at least teenagers, if not in their 20s.

And so while they sort of accepted Monique as being part of their lives, they just couldn't view her as an actual motherly figure. You know, they were already close with their actual mother, Claude's ex-wife Beatrice, and so that was their mother, and Monique was like the, the add-on. Then in 1993, one of Claude's grandsons, so one of his daughter's children, had accused Monique's eldest son Jean-Luc of sexually abusing him, and that had completely ripped the family apart. Now, this was never reported to the police, so there was no actual investigation into whether this really happened or not. But Claude's 5 daughters and Claude's ex-wife Beatrice had fully believed the grandson, and Monique had defended her son Jean-Luc, and Claude was kind of stuck in the middle of it.

And it had gotten so ugly that the 2 sides of the family had just stopped talking to each other for a whole year. And so now the whole family was basically back on speaking terms as they were getting ready for this retirement party, but it was still extremely uncomfortable and tense. And so that is why Monique was not gonna go and also why her son Jean-Luc was not gonna go as well. Finally, around 3:00 PM, as Claude and the two sons wheeled their suitcases out to the car, Monique went to the front door and she said goodbye to them and then watched as they hopped in the car and drove off. A few hours later, around 6:30 PM, Monique heard a knock on the front door.

And when she opened it, it was her son Jean-Luc, and he was standing there holding up his bicycle. He told his mom he was just stopping by on his way home from work, and she said, "Great, come on in." And so Jean-Luc left his bike outside and he walked in, and as he was taking off his coat, he mentioned to his mother that her neighbor across the street, whose name was Henri, had clearly been watching Jean-Luc when he rolled up, like he was basically spying on him. And Monique actually kind of was spooked by that because Henri was a bit of a loose cannon. For example, anytime anybody parked their car in front of Henri's house, he would shamelessly vandalize their vehicle by slashing their tires or pouring oil all over their car. I mean, the guy just didn't care.

In fact, over the years, there had been several heated arguments between Monique and her sons and Henri about parking. And in fact, one of those arguments had even escalated into a physical fight. But since Jean-Luc had shown up tonight without a car, you know, he rode his bike here, Monique just hoped that, you know, whatever issues Henri had, that it wouldn't go anywhere because there's no car in front of his property. Like, we didn't do anything, leave us alone. Monique led her son into the kitchen where she poured 2 glasses of sparkling wine, and then the 2 just sat there and chatted for about half an hour.

And then Monique gave her son a haircut. And then around 7:05, Jean-Luc said goodbye to his mom. He went outside, hopped on his bike, which had not had its tires slashed by Henri, and he left to go to his apartment with his wife to have dinner. After Jean-Luc was gone, Monique just sort of went about her evening. She corralled the dogs behind a baby gate at the base of the stairs and then fed them, and then she went into the kitchen and began cooking dinner for herself.

But then, a little while later, at around 7:30 PM, Monique heard another knock on the door. And she knew it very likely was not her son. And so as she walked down the hallway to answer it, she just hoped it wasn't Henri. The following morning, the woman who lived next door to Monique woke up feeling pretty tired. She hadn't slept well because someone's dogs in the neighborhood had been barking all night.

She got out of bed and walked over to the window and opened up the blinds, and as her eyes adjusted to the light that was flooding in, She looked down from her second floor window into the yard of the two-story white house that was next door, Monique's house. And the neighbor saw there was something dark in the middle of the walkway that led to the front door of Monique's house. And so the neighbor, she put her face right up to the window and she squinted to get a better look. And she realized what she was seeing was a body lying face down on the pavement. And so in a panic, this woman ran out of her room, grabbed the phone, and called the police.

A couple hours later, Judiciary Police Captain Ann Preem pulled up in front of a white, two-story house with crime scene tape and a medical examiner's van right out front. As Preem got out of her car, a police officer walked over to her and led her to where the body of a woman was lying out in the front yard. The officer told Preem that the victim, Monique Lejeune, had been discovered exactly like this by her neighbors earlier that morning. And based on the progression of rigor mortis, the medical examiner estimated that Monique had likely died between 8:00 PM and midnight the night before. Preem bent down to get a better look at the body, but even before getting up close, she knew this woman had sustained just gruesome injuries.

There was blood all over Monique's face and her clothes, and her torso appeared completely ripped apart by what appeared to be stab wounds. Preem guessed just from looking at the scene that this woman must have been murdered and likely was stabbed, you know, just at first glance, at least a dozen times. Preem also noticed pretty obvious defense wounds all over Monique's hands and forearms, which certainly suggested again that she was murdered and that Monique had put up a pretty good fight against her killer. And so after a few more moments of just kind of looking over the body, Preem stood back up and asked the officer if the neighbors had seen or heard anything unusual the night before. And the officer said no, aside from the fact that Monique's dogs, she had 4 dogs, had been barking nonstop really the whole night starting at around 8:00 PM.

Preem nodded and thanked the officer, and then she made her way over to the front door of the house to look to see if there was any signs of forced entry as the door was closed. When she got there, she didn't see any signs, but she did see a bloody handprint on the outside wall near the door. And then when Preem turned the handle of the door, and opened it up, she saw this hallway inside that was absolutely covered in blood. And so Priem very carefully stepped inside, trying to avoid stepping in the blood or tracking any prints anywhere. And she began walking down the hallway very carefully and looking in other rooms.

And she saw that for the most part, the blood spatter was pretty well contained in the entryway, which told her that the attack on Monique likely began and ended in the entryway. And so her running theory was, okay, Monique must have had someone come to the door, you know, they, they knocked or whatever, and then Monique opened the door and was attacked immediately. But then as Preem stepped back outside, she looked down at the front walkway and noticed something kind of unusual. Despite all the blood right inside the front door, there was no blood at all on the walkway between the door and the spot where Monique's body was found. And just from the amount of blood that the victim had clearly lost inside the house.

Preem doubted that she would have been capable of running out into the yard after the attack, so she had to wonder if maybe the body had been moved postmortem. And Monique was a large woman, so if her killer had been able to overpower her, one, and then also move her body such a far distance after she was dead, Preem assumed that whoever her killer was was likely pretty strong. In fact, Preem just kind of assumed that the killer had to be a big, strong man. However, what Preem didn't understand was why would the killer want to drag a corpse out into the yard where the neighbors could see them, unless for some reason they wanted Monique to be found as soon as possible. And since at least at this point it appeared like Monique likely had gone to the front door and opened the door for her killer, Preem thought that the killer must be someone that she knew.

Around noon on that same day, so February 8th, 2003, Police Captain Ann Preem was about to go next door and speak to one of Monique's neighbors herself when suddenly a car pulled up at the curb and 3 men climbed out looking completely shocked and very concerned. By this point, Preem had learned from the neighbors that Monique had a husband and also adult sons. And so Preem assumed that these men must be them. So right away, Preem hurried down the walkway to cut the men off, to keep them from entering the crime scene. And the 3 men, they just began crowding around her, asking her like, "What's going on?

Where's Monique? What's happened?" And she told them that unfortunately, Monique had been stabbed to death. And at first, all 3 of them just went completely silent. And then one of them, one of the sons, just began to cry. Preem then told them that they couldn't go into the house because it was still an active crime scene.

So instead, she led them over to the curb and they all sat down. Preem could tell the men were in shock because as much as one man was crying, it just seemed like they couldn't even process what they were told. But it was important to find out what Monique's family knew as soon as possible. So Preem pulled out a notepad and gently asked them about the last time they had seen Monique. The husband, Claude, said that they had all left the house around 3:00 PM the previous afternoon, leaving Monique at home alone.

They said they had gone to a family gathering near Paris that evening and stayed overnight, and they'd only now just gotten back into town, and they'd seen this whole scene out front, the police tape and police. They had no idea what was going on. Eventually, Preem asked Claude to tell him all the names of all the people in their family, all their adult children, you know, Claude's ex-wife, Monique's ex-husband, everybody. But as Claude was giving this information, he told her that he just couldn't imagine anybody in the family being involved in this. Preem nodded, but she knew that it was entirely possible that family was involved.

I mean, unfortunately, this stuff does happen. But she didn't give that off. Instead, she just said, "Well, can you think of anyone who would want to hurt Monique?" And Claude thought about it and just said no. She lived a pretty normal and uneventful life. But then one of the sons piped up and mentioned that actually there might be someone.

He said, "Her neighbor, Henri," and he pointed across the street at the house. A minute later, Priem was knocking on the front door of Henri's house. And after a few seconds, a middle-aged man answered the door. And he was very curious about what was going on across the street. And eventually, Priem told him that, well, your neighbor Monique has been murdered.

And when she said that, Henri smiled. So immediately, alarm bells are going off in Priem's head. She's thinking, this guy is very suspicious. And she asked him, like, can I come in and look around then? And Henri didn't even seem surprised by this request.

It was like he already knew he was going to be looked at as a suspect and said, sure, come on in. So he stepped aside and Priem came in and began searching every room in the house— the living room, the kitchen, the upstairs bedrooms. But despite looking everywhere, she didn't find any traces of blood or really anything else suspicious or unusual. So eventually, Priem made her way back into the living room where Henri was waiting, and she asked him, you know, where were you the previous evening? And he told her very casually that, well, he and his wife were home.

They were here. Priem thought this was a pretty weak alibi, but She made a mental note to follow up with the wife and confirm it later. Next, Priem asked Henri if he had seen or heard anything out of the ordinary the night before, and Henri said no, except that maybe around 7:00 PM, he had seen one of Monique's sons leaving her house on his bicycle. And at this, Priem perked up because the family had told her that Monique had a third adult son named Jean-Luc who had not gone to that party in Paris. And if Henri was telling the truth, it meant that Jean-Luc was very likely the last person to see Monique alive.

And maybe he was even the killer. The next morning, Priem led a forensics team up the stairs of a rundown apartment building in a sketchy part of town. She knocked on the door to Jean-Luc's apartment, and a moment later, a young man answered. After confirming that he was Jean-Luc, two officers led him away to be questioned back at the station. Meanwhile, Preem went in with the forensics team to search his apartment.

And pretty quickly, as Preem was walking around the living room, one of the other officers called her over to look at something. And so she walked over to him, and she saw he had his flashlight out and he was pointing it at something on the wall. And when she got close enough, she could see that what he was highlighting were what appeared to be tiny drops of blood. And so Preem pulled out her flashlight, and she too began scouring the walls and the floor near the stairs looking for any more blood, and she found a few more red droplets near the doorknob to a closet. And so she opened the closet up, and inside was a bike.

And she shined her flashlight on the bike, on the, the wheels and the frame, and she saw all these reddish-brown splatters all over the underside of it, as if whoever had ridden this bike last had basically drove through a puddle of blood. An hour later, Priem walked into an interrogation room at the police station where Jean-Luc was sitting with his head in his hands. He looked up as she entered, and he had this very scared and confused expression on his face. Priem sat down across from him and right away asked him what he had been doing at his mother's house on the night of February 7th. Jean-Luc said he had just stopped by after work, as he often did, and he only stayed for maybe half an hour before riding his bike back home.

When Priem asked him if he had gone straight home afterwards, Jean-Luc said no, he hadn't. He explained that his wife's brother, Christophe Gressier, lived in the same apartment building as they did on the floor right below them. So before going up to his own unit, he said he just stopped by to chat with Christophe for a few minutes, and then after that, he spent the rest of the night in his own apartment with his wife. However, to Priem, she felt like there had to be more to this story because They had found what appeared to be droplets of blood sort of scattered throughout Jean-Luc's apartment, and then, you know, there was blood, or at least what appeared to be blood, on the underside of his bike. And so she figured, you know, maybe if she pushed hard enough, she might be able to get him to change his story.

So she told him point blank they had found blood in his living room and they were now sending it to the lab for analysis. And when Jean-Luc heard this, his face went bright red and he began stammering that the blood was very likely from a neighbor who had injured himself while visiting a few days earlier. Priem nodded but then told him, you know, they'd also found blood sort of all over his bike. And Jean-Luc, he sort of hesitated and stuttered and stammered, but really couldn't come up with any way to explain that. At this point, Priem felt like she had Jean-Luc right where she wanted him, so she just told him to be quiet for a second and just roll up your sleeves so she could look at his arms.

Priem knew, you know, based on the defensive wounds on Monique's body, that she likely had fought back really hard, and she must have left at least a few scrapes or bruises on her killer. However, when Jean-Luc finally, you know, rolled up his sleeves, Priem didn't see a single scratch or bruise on his hands or arms. A few minutes later, Priem left the interrogation room and walked to her office. Despite the lack of defensive wounds, Jean-Luc was definitely still acting suspicious, and she was not ready to let him go. But she also didn't want to get tunnel vision and completely ignore any other suspects.

In case the blood inside of Jean-Luc's apartment did turn out to just be a big coincidence. So she sat down at her desk and she opened up a file and she began flipping through the notes of interviews that her team had already done with the rest of Monique's family and her neighbors. Monique's sons had mentioned in their interviews that there was definitely some tension between Monique and her 5 stepdaughters, but officers had spoken to all the stepdaughters as well as their husbands And even though some of the women had admitted they still had an issue with Monique, they all had alibis, both the women and their husbands, for the night that Monique was killed. Also, several other family members had mentioned that Claude's ex-wife, Beatrice, definitely did not get along with Monique. But officers had tracked down Beatrice and she just didn't seem like a very strong suspect.

Beatrice had said, for the most part, she and Monique, even if they didn't get along, they just stayed out of each other's way and that they hadn't seen each other in over a month. And also, Beatrice was remarkably tiny and frail. She was barely 4 foot 9 inches tall and 58 years old and just seemed really weak. So it just seemed almost impossible that she could have overpowered the much larger Monique and inflicted the injuries that were inflicted on her and then dragged her out to the front yard. It just seemed sort of impossible.

And so, even though she wasn't totally ruled out, for the most part she was. Just then, there was a knock on Preame's door, and when she looked up, she saw there was another officer standing there. And he told her there were two people here who wanted to speak to her. Preame nodded, and then a moment later, a very nervous-looking middle-aged man and woman came into the office. They sat down across the desk from Preame, and the man said they had information that could help with the Monique Lejeune investigation.

Priem sat up and grabbed a notepad and said, "Okay, tell me what you got." And she began writing as the man explained that he was a coworker of Christophe Gressier. And Priem immediately recognized that that was the name of Jean-Luc's brother-in-law, the one Jean-Luc said he had visited on the night Monique was killed. That was the person he saw apparently right after he left Monique's house. The man sitting across from Priem said that just a few hours ago, he'd gotten a call from Christophe's number. But when he answered it, all he could hear was a sort of muffled conversation between two women.

And at first, you know, this man thought what he was hearing was just an accidental call, you know, maybe by Christophe's kid. It was just pressing buttons at random. However, the man said when he put his phone on speaker, he and his wife, who was the woman he was with, they both started listening really closely and they were able to make out a snippet of the conversation. The two women on the line were clearly talking about needing an alibi and saying something about a man named Jean-Luc. First, the women had said something like, "It's not Jean-Luc's fault, he's depressed." And then the women had mentioned something about a pair of pants that needed to be washed.

Priem couldn't believe what she was hearing. I mean, any doubts that she had had about Jean-Luc being the killer pretty much disappeared. And so she took down the couple's names and contact info, showed them out of her office, And then once they were gone, she grabbed her keys and she headed out to go to Christophe's apartment.

Now, by this point, Christophe had already been taken into custody and questioned, and he had completely denied knowing anything about Monique's murder or the phone call that was apparently made from his number. But Preem hoped that maybe a search of his apartment would tell a different story. She walked through each room of the apartment until she found the washing machine, and there she put on a pair of latex gloves and she reached inside the washing machine and she pulled out a pair of pants that were still damp, as if they had just been washed earlier that day. And she held these pants up and kind of put them in the light, and she could see clearly there was a brownish stain on them. She also noticed that these pants looked like they'd be way too small for Christophe, who was a pretty tall and burly guy, but they definitely looked like they would fit a guy like Jean-Luc, who was much smaller.

Later that same day, so this is on February 10th, 2 days after Monique's body was found, Captain Priem was in her office when her phone rang. She answered it and it was a technician from the crime lab telling her they actually already had the results from the samples that had been sent in for testing. And so Priem, you know, she's geared up, you know, ready to hear some potentially, you know, case-breaking news. But the tech told her that the stains that were on the bike, it was blood, but it was animal blood. He went on to say that the other little droplets of blood that were in Jean-Luc's apartment, like on the walls and near the door handle of the closet, it was blood, but not a match for Monique's.

And then also those pants that have been found, that stain on the pants, that wasn't blood at all. That stain was just grease. Priem was very frustrated because in her mind, she had sort of zeroed in on Jean-Luc. It really seemed like he was their guy, but now they really had no physical evidence against him. And as for that bizarre phone call to Christophe's coworker, they really had no way of knowing who those two women in the background were, or even if the coworker and his wife had actually overheard the conversation correctly, you know, about the alibi and about Jean-Luc being depressed.

You know, who knows if they actually heard that. So Preem thanked the lab technician for calling with the update, you know, despite how disappointing it was. And she was about to hang up when he told her to wait because he had one more piece of news for her. He told her that during Monique's autopsy, the medical examiner had actually found DNA under Monique's fingernails, and it was very likely skin cells from her killer that had been scratched off during the struggle. The technician said it would take at least another few weeks to analyze it, but once the results came back, they could definitely test it against DNA samples from any of their suspects and maybe it would be a match.

This definitely gave Preem some hope. And after she hung up, she began making a list of everyone they would need to get a DNA sample from so they could test against it. She definitely knew she would need one from Jean-Luc and Christophe, and then also that neighbor Henri seemed like a strong suspect too. Priem had actually spoken to Henri's wife and confirmed that, at least according to her, they were together that whole night Monique was killed. But she also knew that spouses were very likely to lie for each other, so it was a flimsy alibi.

So at this point, Priem felt like she definitely had 3 good potential suspects to get DNA from. But realistically, that was where her list ended. The rest of Monique's family had been ruled out by this point, and none of the other neighbors really seemed like suspects. And by all accounts, Monique lived a pretty quiet suburban life and just didn't really get into trouble with anyone. So there really was no one else.

And so to Preem, it just felt like something was missing here. Like, in the time I have between now and when the analysis is done on that DNA underneath Monique's fingernails, I need to see if there's something I've missed. And so over the next few weeks, that's what Preem did. She pored over all the evidence they'd collected and She re-interviewed all the family members and spoke to all the neighbors. But despite this huge effort, nothing new came up that brought any other suspects into view.

However, at the same time, this is early March by this point, maybe 3 or 4 weeks after the, the tech had said they would test this DNA. Preem got another call from the crime lab and the technician said that the DNA analysis had come back. And even before they tested it against any specific suspects, The results were already enough to narrow down the field significantly. And when Preem heard what the tech had to say about the analysis so far, she realized that this was in fact the missing piece of information that she needed. Based on this revelatory DNA evidence and also an eventual confession by the killer, this is what police believe happened to Monique Lejeune on the night of February 7th, 2003.

The killer walked up to Monique's front door and knocked, and a few seconds later, the door opened and Monique was standing there. But instead of inviting the killer inside, Monique just kind of crossed her arms and stared. At this point, the killer began to speak. However, what was supposed to be a polite conversation quickly escalated into an argument, with both of them hurling insults back and forth. And then at some point, Monique slammed the door in the killer's face.

But before she did, she said one last thing that was apparently so inflammatory that it pushed the killer over the edge. And so without even stopping to consider what they were doing, the killer, after having the door slammed in their face and hearing this totally inflammatory line, they stormed over to their vehicle, which was parked nearby, and they grabbed the knife they kept under their seat for self-defense. And they carried that knife right back to the front door and knocked again. And as soon as the door opened, the killer pushed their way inside, and with a surge of rage, they just started stabbing. But Monique was very strong and big, and she knocked the killer to the ground and actually pinned them there.

But the killer managed to wrestle their arm free that was holding the knife, and they kept stabbing Monique over and over and over again. But Monique, she kept fighting back. I mean, this was an epic struggle. And also, the whole time this is happening, Monique's 4 dogs have basically come over to the gate which butted up against the entryway, and they're watching this happen and they're barking like mad. And Monique is screaming out in rage and panic and pain, and the killer is just stabbing and stabbing and stabbing until finally they were able to break away from Monique, who kind of had them pinned despite, you know, getting stabbed repeatedly.

And then once the killer was free, they turned and bolted out of the house. The killer ran across the yard, got in their vehicle, began pulling away, and as they did that, they saw Monique stumble out the front door covered in blood. She took a few steps down the walkway and collapsed to the ground, but the killer didn't wait around to see if she was really dead. Instead, they sped away, and then they stopped at a supermarket parking lot and threw the murder weapon, the knife, in a trash can. And then the killer went home and they burned their bloodstained clothes in their stove.

They thought that would be enough to destroy any evidence linking them to this crime, especially considering the fact that they knew they were like the last person anybody would suspect of such a horrible, violent murder. It would turn out the killer was the 4-foot-9-inch-tall, tiny, frail Beatrice Matisse, Claude's 58-year-old ex-wife. In her confession to police, she claimed she had gone to Monique's house that night to finally, you know, bury the hatchet after years of feuding between the two sides of Claude's family. But she said the bad blood ran way too deep, and when Monique apparently insulted Beatrice's daughters, That was the last inflammatory line as she shut the door. Beatrice said she snapped.

Beatrice had actually been ruled out as a suspect primarily because she was really, really small, like too small to have overpowered Monique and then to have potentially moved her body out to the front yard. But it would turn out Monique's body was not moved at all. She stumbled out herself. Monique was apparently so full of adrenaline after getting attacked that she had managed to you know, chase Beatrice out of the house before she collapsed and died. And keep in mind, she did that after being stabbed over 50 times and losing an immense amount of blood inside.

And because Monique had fought back so fiercely, she had managed to get traces of Beatrice's DNA under her fingernails. And so right away, the DNA analysis showed that their killer was a woman, and further testing eventually confirmed that It was a match for Beatrice. Investigators never figured out who made that bizarre phone call to Christophe's coworker, but their best guess was that the women that were heard on the phone call were Christophe's mother and sister, and it was just a, an innocent conversation about Monique's murder that the coworker misinterpreted. Beatrice Matisse was arrested on March 29th, 2003, and she confessed to the murder immediately. Although she later recanted the confession.

She was eventually found guilty and sentenced to 15 years in jail.

A quick note about our stories: they are all based on true events, but we sometimes use pseudonyms to protect the people involved, and some details are fictionalized for dramatic purposes.

The Mr. Ballen Podcast: Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories is hosted and executive produced by me, Mr. Ballin. Our head of writing is Evan Allen. Our head of production is Zach Levitt. Produced by Jeremy Bone. Story editing by Evan Allen.

Research and fact-checking by Shelley Xu, Samantha Van Hoos, Evan Beamer, Abigail Shumway, and Camille Callahan. Research and fact-checking supervision by Stephen Ear. Audio editing and post-produced by Whit Lacascio and Cole Lacascio, Perry Kroll, and Jordan Stidham. Mixed and mastered by Brendan Kane. Production coordination by Samantha Collins.

Production support by Antonio Menada and Delaina Corley. Artwork by Jessica Clogston Kiner. Theme song called "Something Wicked" by Ross Bugden. Thank you for listening to the Mr. Ballen Podcast. And just a reminder, every new and exclusive episode we put out on the Mr. Ballen Podcast, you can also now watch on the Mr. Ballen YouTube channel that very same day.

And trust me, some of these stories you truly have to see to believe. Again, my YouTube channel is just called Mr. Ballen. If you want to listen to episodes one week early and ad-free, you can subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.com/podcastplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. So that's gonna do it. I really appreciate your support.

Until next time, see ya.