Transcript of Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST

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I'm John Robbins, and joining me on How Do You Cope this week is Sophie Willam. I remember reading all this stuff and thinking, There's no way I'm going to be okay. Look at I'm a mess. I'm not what I thought I was. I thought I was going to be this success. Actually here, I'm being told I'm not going to be that.

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

I'm Elaina.

And I'm Tobias.

This is a very special episode of Morbid.

This is a very special episode of Orbit that we have been lightly teasing for a few weeks. I'm sure everybody's like, What the fuck is going on? Who is coming on this show? Lightly. Today, we have prolific songwriter and storyteller with 10 billion streams, which is astronomical. Five Grammy nominations, American Music Awards, iHeartRadio Music Awards, and a vast congregation of very devout fans. We have Tobias Forge from Ghost. Welcome to Morbid.

Thank you so much. You're making me blush here.

That's the plan right out the gate. Thank you so much for talking to us. This is awesome. You just came off of, really, in the last few months, an epic tour, I would say, is the least way we can describe it. It was basically two years.

Yeah, I guess it's stretched over two years. I don't remember exactly, but something like that.

Yeah, it's insane. You also just put out the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America. No big deal. Casual. Yeah, very casual. You've gone on a media sabbatical in between, and you've written an entire album. You also collaborated with Dark Horse comics to expand the whole ghost lore with a four-issue comic book arc, which is really cool. Are you a vampire is our first question, or do you sleep?

Considering the fatigue I feel I'm apparently not. No, I'm not. Let's put it this way. I mean, last year when I was working on the record, simultaneously with the film, there were definitely moments where I felt clear signs that big endeavors like that are better handled singular. I don't remember, whatever you call it. You do one thing at a time. It's very hard to keep focused. Somehow I managed to do that, but it was definitely hard. The good thing about the film was that a large part of it was based on footage that we'd already secured, that we'd already shot in LA. That was a good lion's share of the content, if you will. Sometimes with making records or making films, you just have to stay on script. You just do we decided. My problem is that I don't really work like that. I'm off the cuff doing improvising stuff. Any project will demand a lot of my mental presence and acuity, which is fun when you've done it, but it can be really tiresome. I've definitely, not to be ageist here, but I'm approaching that age when I start feeling a little bit of a result.

When things get a little bit too much. That makes sense. Obviously, it wasn't too much because I'm here now.

Yeah, you're doing okay, I feel like. It's working out. Yeah. I feel that, though. I literally, if I do two book signings in a week, I'm toast for three weeks. So I have no idea how you did two full years of a tour and did all the things you did afterwards. I would be gone.

Yeah, I don't know what you answer that. I mean, but it's also the good thing, this is the weird thing about my job compared to friends that I have that make films or friends that I have that are just writing songs all the time that might not have much of an artistic career, but more just writing, is that they just go from one creative to another. Even though I'm constantly creating to a certain degree, I also flip flop between a creative period to a less creative period that is the tour, where you're creative in the beginning, but it is actually more of a, dare I say, more of a normal job in the sense that you show up in time and you do your job and then you're done.

Yeah, right. The creative work is done in a sense. I get that.

The creative job is like, never ends.

I have to make the thing. It's always... What? It's like the creative part is like, I have to make this whole thing. And then that's just like, all right, let's go through the... I'm here. But we got to do it now. Yeah, that makes sense. Exactly. Well, before we get to, we're going to go fully into what is next for Ghost, what has happened. I had one quick little side quest I needed to take you on before we get into it. I don't know if you have heard, but they think that they have named Jack the Ripper. I need to know if you think that they named Jack the Ripper.

Tell me his name.

They think it's Aaron Kosminsky.

Okay.

No. I don't know if you've ever... Because I know you're into the case. You've researched the case, obviously. Yes. Have you heard of the Catherine Eto's shal that they claimed was at the crime scene?

Yes. I know that there is a There is a DNA question mark on that?

Yeah. For some reason, it's been everywhere that they are 100% sure that this shal has led to the identity, and they think it's Aaron Kosminsky. The reason I bring this up is because a lot of our listeners, we I did a four-episode deep dive into Jack the Ripper, and I think I couldn't stop researching it. Of course, I've been asked a million times what I think of this whole thing, if they've really named him. It's infuriating. Not people asking me, but the fact that they're saying that this is 100% Jack the Ripper. But I needed to know if you had heard about it and if you were like, Oh, yeah, it's Erin Kosminsky, or if you were like, No. All right, so I'm going to let Tobias finish in a second, I promise. But before I do that, I just needed to let you guys know that we had very limited time with Tobias this time around. So I really wanted to make sure that you guys heard my feelings on Jack the Ripper, and I didn't want to just vomit them all over Tobias and use up all our time. Here's the thing. I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper.

Not one part of me thinks it, in fact. There's many reasons for that. The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me, and it's the same person bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info. That shal that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shal that they're claiming was found at Katherine Edo's crime scene. One, they have no way of knowing that. The only way of knowing that would be if it was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found on and around her at the scene that is well-documented, and it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there is an eight-foot long, really expensive shal that might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere. If we don't have that, then how do we know that this thing is hers, and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your answer. We don't. There's a big, giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. I don't think it was found at the crime scene.

I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have held on to that shal. I mean, there's all kinds of stories of her selling shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on her. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole thing is that Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken this shal from the crime scene, a supposed blood-soaked shal he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been an immense risk to do that. Two, I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series. We can't really comprehend how dark these crime scenes were. There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this man plucked a blood-soaked shal from a crime scene and just brought it home for his wife? I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was a Metro He was a Metropolitan police officer. Miter Square, where Catherine Eto's was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being there, and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene.

So that gives me pause. The DNA. The DNA, we don't even know what it is. It might be blood, it might be semen. They have no definitive answer for that. So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. Also, there is no evidence of him leaving semen at scenes. Of course, he can depart from his pattern. Of course, that's happened before. I am fully willing to admit that, and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along with it. But the fact that he never did this, and there was never evidence of any classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes, it was really violence and mutilation. It doesn't really fit with the pattern. Once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's what they're not telling you in any of these things. This is not straight up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect absolute.

Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can also be the person. This can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA. That's not good enough for me. That's not identifying. That is, you can eliminate. Also, just to put a pin on this, the researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. He doesn't have a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. I will, of course, give benefit of the doubt if he can provide more evidence. But he also claimed once, and so did his team, that they found a victim of Ian braided and Myra Henley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett. His family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. It was really fucked up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett, and they hadn't. That upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life. If he can provide more evidence that says this is 100% DNA match, which I don't believe he can, then I'm willing to listen to it.

But no, Aaron Kosminsky is not Jack the Ripper. Mic drop.

I am very interested in the subject, and I definitely don't think it's Aaron Kosminsky.

No. Okay, I'm glad you agree because it's been driving me insane.

Yeah, Lena has been going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.

Every once in a while, I'll just yell out another thing that doesn't make sense about this, but everybody's running with it. But that is my official statement right here. Tobias Forge agrees it is not Aaron Kutminsky, anybody.

Well, I think I spoke about this last time as well, is that the problem with most of the names that's been thrown around is that what they all have in common is that they somehow have some exotic or weird treat that makes them eccentric or typically weird. It's interesting how in this case, especially now when we know so much more about serial killers, I don't blame people back then to be dumbfolded and screwing up everything when it came to the investigation. But it's interesting how we now have a tendency to believe that this case is so different from every other serial killer in the history of serial killers. We know now that serial killers are not necessarily an eccentric weirdo And let's ship openly and have circus. We know that they are more likely to be perfectly functional family men.

Yeah, they blend in.

There's this very interesting reoccurring. It's part of the mainframe of the story that if you believe in the limitation of the canonical five, that after Mary Kelly, no one can do that number on another person physically, could subject someone to that ultraviolence without losing their minds.

Yeah, that's Like a very... Excited that. Yeah. Like, since when?

There's so many examples that does that and way worse, and then they can sit and speak coherently. And... Yeah.

And go have dinner with their family. Yeah. So They're kids up from daycare.

It's really fascinating as a human social experiment talking and listening to theories about this because it's mired in such a mist that for some reason makes people completely unrealistic. But I'm also just an amateur. I don't know who did it. I can't present you with facts that- That's the difference, is you're saying, I don't know who did it. I don't know who did it.

Yeah. It's the same. I don't either. I don't think any of us do. It's been very widely reported as 100 % we figured out who did it.

Yeah, fully fact. What?

This is from the 1800s.

But let's put it this way then. It will serve me well if people think it's Aaron Kismitzky for some time.

Yeah.

So continue thinking that. Okay, it's officially him.

Yeah. Okay.

100 %. Tobias is going to come mic drop later.

There you go. There's so many little things about it, but I won't get into it because I could literally talk about this for six hours, and you don't have that. So Let's take it back. We're going to talk about the Imperator, which, again, you toured for almost two years. It was seven legs. We were at a few of them. It was an amazing tour. Congrats on that success, by the way. And again, the stamina that it took to do that.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. I feel like towards the end of that tour, everyone became in a flutter of what's going to happen and what's next. It had its own mythos. You could hear people talking about it and everywhere you went about it. But luckily, we didn't have to wait too long because you chronicled, like you said, the final two performances of the tour in the film right here, right now, which, again, I just need to state, it's the highest grossing Hard Rock Cinema event in North America, which is a crazy title to hold. But you ended that on the cliffhanger of all cliffhangers, right before revealing Papa 5. One thing I have to ask you is, I was in one of those audiences watching that film, and the first thing I heard, very clearly when the credits rolled, was someone behind me yell very lovingly, Fuck you, Tobias Forge, at the top of their lungs. So mad because they were like, What the fuck? Did you feel audiences cursing you at the end of that? Did you know that people were going to be like, No.

I went to the premiere here in London. I'm currently in London, so I was here for the premiere. That was the first time I I saw it with essentially a bunch of strangers. There was this murmur. No one... No one cursed you. No cursing. But yeah, there was definitely a noise, that signal.

A grumble that went through the...

It's your got you moment.

It is. It was such a good got you moment.

It's your got you moment. Yeah.

It was like, right up to it.

Then you was like...

Yeah. Then it's just Closing the door. In that film, there's a lot of illusions to twins and a lot of implications that there's twins involved in some other capacity than what we've seen. Can you tell us do you think about that, or should we just shut up and wait?

No, it's easy. It's more fun if as a fan, you get to follow the story the way that I've rolled it out with the comic and onward. It's a boring way to explain it, but it's just better explained that way. I'm fascinated, not in a mangala way about twins, but I think that there is this... Obviously, I do happen to have two children who are twins.

Me too.

But I think that there is this fascination, especially when it comes to grown up people who've been separated at birth for this, that, or the other reason, sometimes by accident, sometimes by choice, sometimes by force. More than often, it's been a result of girls who basically couldn't take care of their children and wasn't at that point, maybe, equipped or had the ability to take care of children, so they had no choice but to leave them up for adoption. There are cases where they have felt forced to give up one. And I've always been fascinated with, I don't know, the concept of family ties and blood lines and all that. I think that comes not necessarily from the fact that I have twins myself, but it comes also from the fact I have several adopted siblings. Just a few years ago, I did what most people or a lot of people do nowadays. You do the ancestry and you check your DNA and then you get a slew of people that you're related to all over the place. All over the world. It dawned on me pretty quickly that if some of my siblings would do that, their thing is completely different.

They belong to some other family with their own background and their own everything. I really wish that they did in a way, but as far as I know, they haven't because it's such a trauma for them, I assume.

Oh, yeah, I can imagine.

When I say the word fascinating, it's not always from a joyful. It's really affecting stuff, and it really can do a number on someone when you learn something about your life, and especially if you feel that something that you believe was true was all of a sudden not true. In my family case, they are very well aware that they are adopted, so that is not a thing. But I'm just saying that it never does it become more clear. When one does the test and you can trace back and the other one to you is like, Oh, that's cool.

Look at that. That's a surprise. And that's a relatively new thing, too. So I feel like that's a whole new generation of people experiencing that very specific and very unique trauma sometimes. Because we didn't always have these tests that we could just send away for and get the results on your phone. No. So it's very interesting.

It's an interesting concept. And I think for the most part, it's a really good thing. I do believe that, simply put, knowing your history. And I found it to be very humbling to be able to look at my family tree and seeing all these people. Obviously, most of them I couldn't see photos of or I could only see names. But watching generation of generation of people struggling, and more than often, especially when you go back 100 years, it's common that you see mom and dad that gets 12 kids. Out of six of them die.

It's wild.

Like a year, two years, three years.

And that was just normal.

Back then, it was a completely normal thing. For us, that's a cataclysmic event.

Oh, yeah.

You can't even fathom that. I'm not saying that they weren't suffering, but I'm just saying that it was a completely different time. They probably spent very little time wallowing in affairs and worldwide things that didn't bother That wasn't directly affecting them. They just kept head straight and they worked and they made sure that the kids that survived, survived. I have a tremendous amount of respect What's the word? Humility. All that work that was put in in order for me to sit here and talk shit.

That's a good way to look at it, actually.

Yeah.

That's what they did it for, so we to sit here and talk shit?

Yeah, you know. Yeah.

Well, getting away from the last tour and heading into the future a little bit, this album, I was lucky enough to listen to it. It's this new album It's like a masterpiece. I'm obsessed with it. I love it. I think it's my favorite so far. It's really, really good. I can't get over it. I wanted to scream it from the rooftop. I really can't. I know you're probably like, oh.

That's what you tell everyone.

It's not. She doesn't. I really don't. I loved this one. I loved it immediately from the first note. Again, this album feels... It's just got a different feel to it, and it feels more personal and a little more introspective. It just has a different vibe, too. It had a very good, different vibe. Can you tell us a little bit about why, if I'm correct, why you might have went in that direction with this one?

Yeah. I simply put the previous record, especially actually was such a channeling of me, deciphering external influence. I felt that, even though I'm super proud of Impair, I thought that that was the record that I wanted to do at the time. Nothing wrong with that, but I felt not at all inspired to go back and make a sequel to that, like an Impair 2. Even though, obviously, there's plenty of fatter if you want to have continued on that path. But I just felt that that's not inspiring. That is simply not what I need. And Therefore, hence, I don't think that that's what people are interested in what I think feel or need either. I'd rather make a more introspective record that deals with evergreen feelings and basic human sentiments and still hope.

It definitely comes across in this one. Each one, I feel like, is like a little mini movie that you can see in your head, and it feels like there's sentiments in each one that you can relate to on some level in some part of your life. You know what I mean? They all have that. That's why this one struck me as so different, but it was different in the best way.

I'm glad you say that. At some point, when you sketch out this little idea that, Oh, so this is thematic concept, and these are a few songs that I've been fiddling with. There's always this process when you're practically putting together a record. At the end of the day, regardless of what message that you want to stay on point with, it still needs to be an entertaining piece of work, a piece of art with rimes and new words. There's so many hurdles to go from a pure intuitive idea to actually looking at 42 minutes of qualitative entertainment.

Yeah. Gosh, I can't imagine that, having to boil it all down to that and making it palatable.

Yeah, but that's what I do. I love that. But it's always a challenge. I'm sure. Fun challenge, but it's always... Especially you're trying to do thematic things. That's why sometimes I'm also using the theme as... That's a loose direction that I've used as a more, originally, most for myself in order to stay on... On brand might be the wrong one, but stay on point, stay focused. So I know where not to go.

Stay the course. Yeah. Did you have a bit of a different process writing the songs this time around?

No.

No, same process?

Same process. All right. I like that. It's simply because I don't really have one go-to process, so I was using the same process C's. I think that this was the first time, first record, where I worked with collaborators that I... I worked only with collaborators that I worked with quite a lot before. I didn't have any new blood. We were working with a certain amount We're on a rapport in background, which was comforting because you trust the other people, you trust them, you know that we're working towards the same goal, and everybody has the intent of making everything as good as possible. I know that no one... Who the hell would go into a production with the opposite?

You never know. That'd be weird. You just never know anymore.

But you can definitely feel sometimes that someone is phoning it in, and especially if it's a big production with a lot of people, and obviously someone is there. Someone is there because they're getting paid. They're functional, too. So that's It's not a problem. But yeah, it was quite closely knit, and we were not a big bunch of people working on this one. As some of you fans might know, we, I, basically I have a little bit of a divide between how I make the records and then who is performing on stage. Across my 15 years career as this band, I've experimented a little bit with that, but I've learned the hard way that if you're not going to use everyone, it's better to use no one. If not everybody's being called in for their ability and their special gift. Anybody who's excluded from that, they're going to take that the wrong way.

It's not going to be great. Yeah.

It's just better. I've just found it more comforting and more productive and nicer to everybody to just work with others. Then once we get the band together, then we haven't nagged each other down. We haven't worn each other down throughout the process of making a record, which a lot of other bands do.

I'm sure.

They have already been in the studio and killing each other for a year.

Oh, yeah. I hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other half the time. Yeah.

Making records, especially if you are collaborating, it's very... I don't have a better word. It's an intimate process. I'm sure. You have to be very open and daring.

It's like your You're letting your own personal journal, your own diary, you're giving it to a bunch of people to help make into something that everyone's going to listen to. I can't imagine that.

No, it's pretty much what you do. Of course, when you've done it a couple of times, it's simply not a part of your... It's like getting naked with someone you're together with. It's not a thing after a while that you're... And once you've started writing with someone and it feels good, it does become more natural. You don't have that initial obstacle of having to put the shades down.

Well, the first single video that is coming out from this album is Satanized. When this episode airs, it has come out already. That video is amazing. Loved that video. It is the first reveal of Papa 5, Papa Perpetua, and it's a phenomenal reveal at the end of the video. I think Ash actually filmed me watching it for the first time, and I was like, speechless. I couldn't even form words. I have a couple of questions about that video. Again, if you can't answer, just say, Absolutely not. Is that you, heavily, heavily made up as the priest?

Yes.

I knew it.

The point is not that it's me. It's the point that it's a priest. I want people to focus on- It's a priest.

Yeah.

I mean, of course, I understand that people will notice. It's good. It was hard. Good prosthetics, but it's obviously not to the point where I'm completely beyond. But the song itself has a… This is how meta and weird Ghost is sometimes.

Love that.

The song is written in I form. Eye perspective. But on the record, Papa the Fifth Perpetua is singing, pretending to be another character, right?

I think I'm right about my theory.

Elaina That's not quite a theory, and I think you just confirmed it.

Because Papa the Fifth Perpetua is a singer in a band. So as any other band who has songs that are written in eye form, can be about someone else. They're not always about- Their personal experience. Yeah, them personally.

Oh, that's good to know.

In the video, a problem arose because of this, because we needed... My idea was for this love-stricken monk to go through the hurdles of confusing his infatuation with being possessed. Of course, his surroundings within the monastery. Of course, Dave.

They confirm that.

The symptoms that he's showing is clearly the sickness of being possessed by a demon, and the cure for this is an exorcism and repentance and all that. Technically, it was important that, okay, so I mean, obviously, I can't transform into Papa. That becomes really poor and bad. So we needed to have another character coming in. So we had this... He's a Swedish actor.

I don't know if anybody- He was so good.

You guys, you recognize him.

He was familiar, but I couldn't... I didn't know if it was just because he has a very kind face.

His name is, I hope I say this right, internationally, David Denchik. And he's been in all kinds of stuff. He was in a James Bond film. Oh, wow. He was in a lot of Swedish and Scandinavian films. I mean, he stars. I think he's half Danish or something.

Oh, okay.

So he's in a lot of Danish films.

Oh, that's cool. So maybe it wasn't just his kind face.

He's a very talented actor. He's very well known in Sweden, Denmark, Scandinavia. He was hugely talented, very nice, lots of fun to work with. He really graced that video with this personality that I think was needed, which put me in a little bit of being superfluous, which is fine. I don't have to star or anything, but someone needs to be the priest. It's always interesting to be plain asshole That must be the most fun, I feel like. Absolutely.

The villain is always the most fun.

If I looked more like a stereotypical strong, angry man, with all those features. You know how some men are just thinking they're badass?

Yes.

I can't really play that. What you're looking at right now is me having spent some time being sick.

I'm glad you're feeling better, by the way.

So I'm in home mode in the the hobo look. It's chic. But when I'm clean, shaven and all, I can't really scare people. And sometimes as an To whatever extent I am an actor at some point. I would say so. You just have to live with the fact that what your look is.

You got to work with it.

That's what you can play with. I had to screw him up with some feature that gave a little bit more of a character.

I loved it. I'm so glad you confirmed it for me because it was driving me insane. I've been saying it in here. I'm like, Am I just looking for things that aren't there? Or am I going crazy now? But in that same video, because I had to analyze it a million times. Corinthians 6: 19 flashes across the screen. It's in the little notebook. It's definitely right there. And in case anybody didn't immediately look at that verse of the Bible, I did not know what that verse was at first because I'm not super up on my biblical verses. Now, before this interview, I think I'm like an expert on the Book of Revelation, by the way. I'm telling everybody stories.

Elaina has held her own Bible study now. I have.

So I know all about it. But Corinthians is basically touching upon sexual immorality. It's when Paul went to the Corinthians and told them, Stop being so loose with your business. And the Corinthians were like, Well, why does it matter? This body doesn't go with me when I leave, so it doesn't matter what I do with it. And he's like, No, it's a temple for God, and you're sulling it with your reckless sexy time. So that's the story there in a very loose form, obviously, not the word of God. And this seems to be a theme, obviously, of the Satanize video, for sure. We see the nun showing some clogged ankle for a minute. Loved that. Loved her. I thought her facial expressions are so good. And it's part of the video. It's part of everything for this. And there's another song, I won't name it because it's obviously not out yet, that I listened to on the album that definitely had some like, spiciness in it, I would say. So it had like a similar theme of this. But I wanted to know if that theme plays a bigger role at all in the thematic arch of the album as a whole, or if it's just a part of something bigger.

You mean Book of Revelation or the Corinthians?

Corinthians, I would say. Like that whole sexual immorality thing.

No. This was specific to this song.

Okay.

Just because in that specific verse, I can't paraphrase it in English exactly what it says, but it's somewhere along the lines of keep your body clean because at the end of the day, it belongs to gone. In the context of the song and the meaning of the video, I think it's fairly poignant and on point to this misconception that anybody who's love-stricken is somehow opening themselves up to destroying their bond and their covenant with God.

A higher being.

Which is completely unfathomable. Wild.

Truly. And what is, and again, you might not be able answer this. But in the notebook, we were looking at what the things that were written in there because they were funny in the music video. And there's something that's crossed out. Can you tell us what that said? Because I think next to it, it says, idiot.

I think the first thing that was crossed out was masturbate, question mark.

Yeah, that was definitely one.

And obviously, he didn't want to suggest that. And then it's... Was it suicide?

Oh, that's what it was.

But he didn't want to... No, that's not great.

He didn't want to suggest that.

Maybe he was starting going through the Bible verses there, and he landed on 2 Corinthians. And anybody who knows current history knows that 2 Corinthians does not exist. It's 2 Corinthians. But when you pose with the Bible and try to trick your followers that you have any clue what you're talking about, and you say that wrong, it becomes humoristic.

It does.

So that was a little bit of a...

Little nod.

An Easter egg there.

A wink. I like that. All right, I'm glad we know what that is now. It was driving us nuts. We're like, What does that say? It has an S in the beginning. So quick little side question. Have you ever seen The Devils with Oliver Reid and Vanessa Redgrave?

I don't know off the top of my head.

You should watch it.

I believe that this is a quite old film, right? It is. It is.

It was banned, but I think the W, Warner Brothers wouldn't release it again. So it's one of those things you have to go looking for.

Yeah. I don't remember. I I don't remember. I vaguely have it in the back of my head. I think I know which film it is. Sometimes I do have a problem remembering or simply detecting which film someone is referring to because even though in Sweden we don't dub films, we have other titles for the films.

Oh, I didn't even think of that.

Which is too much ridicule and the laughing of my band members, band that I'm traveling with because they have picked up on this little anomaly in Swedish cinema.

I love That's what it is. I love that.

Sometimes I get the question, What's this called in Swedish? Simple old-school things. It's like Jaws. It's called Hyen. That means the shark.

There you go.

I love that. And towering inferno is. And that means the skyscraper is on fire.

I'm obsessed with that. I love that, literal. That one's awesome.

The course of touring, and you sit in the bus and do exactly what we're talking about right now. We just like, Have you seen this film? I'm like, Maybe.

No.

Then I see a picture of it. Oh, yeah, of course. I've seen this. But I remember this film, and then I have to tell them the title, and it's like, whoa. It's such a simplified, stupid- I love it. Dumb... The old one that's fairly known is that all Mel Brooks films in Swedish is called Springtime for... Springtime for... So the producer is Springtime for Hitler.

Wow.

And a lot of the Goldihawn films was the Girl who fell overboard, the girl who did military service, the girl who knew too much.

I love that words are added into the title, too. It's like, Overboard is not just Overboard. It's like, We have to explain it first.

Yeah, all All the National Lapoons, National Vacation, or Christmas Vacation, all that. All the Clark-Griswold films, they're called A Pair for a Dad.

A pear.

It's pearon til fascha. So that means a pear, as in the fruit. I thought you meant a pear. A pear for a Dad? It's. So that means a peer, as in the fruit? I thought you meant a peer. A Peer for a Dad. It's Celebrating Christmas. All right. A pair for a dad on a European vacation.

Why is there a pair?

If I ask anyone in Sweden, Have you seen National Lampun's European Vacation? They'll be like, They will most likely not know what I'm talking about.

They're like, Is that the one with the pair?

With the pair you're talking about?

That's the one with the pair.

Yeah. That's amazing. I'm obsessed with that.

You're going to have to let us know if The Devil's has a different name. It's the one written It's produced and directed by Ken Russell.

Is it Criterion? Are the people who made it? Yes. I don't know why. Criterion. I don't know why that just popped in my head. I'm going to check it.

That's a red grave.

Yeah. And Oliver Reid. Oliver Reid.

Yeah. Oh, this rings a bell.

Because as soon as I watched the Satanize video, for some reason, that movie just popped in my head and I was like, huh, I got to ask. Moving away from the Satanize video, we have a couple of random questions for you. But last time you were on, we had a lot of random questions for you, and people really liked hearing what you had to say about very random things. I'm sure you know this, that you grew up in Sweden. Is there any folklore or tales that you heard growing up that you think maybe shaped how you approach music or just creating cool shit?

Obviously, my music for almost forever, As soon as I started writing songs, especially for bands and stuff, it was always driven by a certain level of supernatural presence, if you will, because I started writing songs for especially metal and death metal and stuff like that. Of course, there's this supernatural horror element, and then that just continued even through my other wall bands where it was still darkish, and now, obviously, it's influenced by that, too, or at least wrapped in some wrapping that's supposed to be horror-esque. Of course, I think that Scandinavian folklore had... I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm obviously not a child now. I do have children, though, so I'm not sure that they have dealt with the same fairytale murkyness that even when I was a kid. Scandinavian folklore is a lot about trolls and various creatures that live in the forest. Where I grew up in Linköping, we had... I mean, anybody traveling to Linkesping or anybody who's ever been there knows that there's a stream going through the city, and It's like a built stream, and it's in the form of a city park, if you will. It's not just licking between the houses.

It's like a long park that goes through the town. Because it's part of a system called Yata Canal, a channel, it's adjointed to Yata Canal. It has these sluices and stuff, so you can actually take the boat and travel.

Oh, that's cool.

Where I grew up and where my kindergarten garden was, it's still there. It's still a functioning kindergarten, like a daycare place. It was really nice because we had it. It was sitting right next to, very near the stream. That's cool. There was a big park right next to where we were. We had the sluice where old wooden- Oh, that's cool. Boats would come and they would fill the water up. But there was also a waterfall there. It's actually a pretty beautiful place. If anybody travels to Linkesha, at some point, go down to Hawaii. It's called Hawaii because it's like a little Peninsula where me and my friends and everybody we knew would go with six packs and get fucked up.

We all have that one place.

Not when you were in kindergarten.

It was later. Not when I was in kindergarten. But anyway, there's this character in Swedish folklore called Nicken. He is like a naked man sitting- That's scary. By the water in a waterfall or where the water streams downstream. He would sit there and play fiddle naked. If you ever hear him, you will be enchanted by his playing, and you will He will lure you and he will drown you.

Oh, that got dark so fast.

At first, I was like, All right, sounds cool.

Let's go. This guy. Then I was like, Oh, shit.

I like the fiddle music.

When I was little and we were down there They're playing. You couldn't help but to think that if there was such a thing as neck and he would probably sit right over there. Sounds like it. Because that is a typical neck and place to sit. Yeah.

Why not?

If we know anything about neck and, he's going to sit there.

He's going to sit in that waterfall. That's great. So, Tobias, we told you at the beginning of the episode that we had a very special guest who wanted to come in and just congratulate you and say, Hey.

So if you want, we can let them in now, if that's good? No, of course.

Who is It, please.

I'm very nearly here.

He's here.

Welcome to the show, Doug Bradley.

Hi, Tobi. Hey, man. How are you?

I'm very well. How are you?

You're good. I'm doing fine. Doing just fine. It's been a while. Covid It kept getting in the way, huh? Yeah.

Have we not seen each other since then?

I think at the Peterson, they wouldn't let us backstage. And then I think the last one, you needed to voice preservation, energy preservation.

Yeah, I remember that now.

You didn't need annoying groupies.

Exactly. I might have been also disturbed by... Do you still have that insect infestation in Pittsburgh?

Oh, that was crazy.

Which one? We had the stink bugs.

Then that was followed by the spotted lantern flies. Oh, even worse. That was what I was referring to. But I just wanted to conclusively I just want to say we are coming to Pittsburgh.

You are?

Yes. Yeah, this summer. So I'm looking forward to see both of you then.

Yeah, we already have our tickets. We will be there.

Yay. We'll all be there.

We will We'll meet up some bugless place.

Congratulations on the movie.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Which was terrific. The tour upcoming, you could lay claim to being the hardest working man in show business, I think.

I think so.

I try to put my models, but it's...

I think it will be 10 years this year since we first saw you.

Is it?

House of Blue, Dallas, I think. 2015, was Damn. 14. I'm losing count.

Okay.

11 years.

Look at that. Yeah.

I bet they suck. I bet they're going to go...

You just happened to step in on the one night when we didn't do That's what I'm looking at.

Elaina, congratulations on the novel. Oh, thank you so much. Which I read and enjoy hugely.

Thank you.

With a plot twist for the ages which I did not see coming.

Thank you so much.

I mean, it was literally a What?

That was the plan, so I'm glad it worked.

I haven't cleared the decks for the sequel. It's coming.

The third one's coming, so get ready.

Is that a event? Do you stop at a trilogy or do you just- I'll keep going, probably.

You'll get some more.

I didn't gratulate you on anything, Ash, but- That's okay. I just exist. Congratulations for being wonderful.

Oh, thank you. Back at you, Doug.

Look at the love here. This was so amazing, and it was so amazing to have Doug come in as a surprise guest. We wanted to give you that at the end. I know. It would be fun. We love Doug so much. Thank you for coming, Doug. We love Tobias. We love Doug. It's just all love here. Just to wrap it up, the album comes out on April 25th. It's incredible. Everybody go get it because you won't be disappointed. The single for Satanized and the Sister Imperator comic are available now when this episode comes out. You can access all the above, plus some really sick merch on ghost-official. Com, and I encourage to do it. Tobias, you're amazing. We're huge fans. We'll stick with you. Can't wait to see you on tour. We'll be at a couple of the dates. Looking forward to that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on. We really, really appreciate it.

Thank you. We hope you We just keep listening, and we hope you guys keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird. Bye. I can't find my go away button. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining WNDYRI Plus in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery. Com/survey.

I'm Indra Vaama, and in the latest season of The Spy Who, we open the file on the spies who invaded suburbia. The illegals weren't just blending in. They were the embodiment of the American dream. Nine to 5: 00 jobs, dropping the kids off at soccer practice, and just the right amount of charm to slide into the orbits of the powerful. But behind closed doors, they were Russian operatives, meticulously crafting coded messages and feeding Moscow everything it needed to stay one step ahead of the US. When a powerful mole reveals the names and locations of the undercover spies, the FBI finds itself walking a tightrope, protect its most crucial informant whilst avoiding a catastrophic diplomatic firestorm. Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can binge the full season of the spies who invaded suburbia early and ad-free with WNDYRI Plus.