Transcript of Beyond Selling Sunset: Emma Hernan on Setting the Record Straight, Bootstrapping and Running a Family Business

This episode was taped in the Money News Network studio, brought to you by US Bank.

I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.

It's time for some money rehab. If you only know Emma Hernan from Selling Sunset, buckle up because you are underestimating her, and she knows it. Emma isn't just a real estate agent and a reality TV star. She's also a business powerhouse who started investing in her own family business as a teenager, built a vertically integrated food empire from scratch, and still found time to close luxury deals. She also happens to be just as lovely off-screen as she is on screen. She has such a big heart, and look no further for proof of that than the jingling that you hear in this episode. Off camera, Emma's sweet, sweet dog was trying to sit on her lap the entire episode and then ultimately wins. If you're watching on Spotify or YouTube, you'll see this super sweet moment. We cover all of it. Emma tells me how she was affected by watching her mom take out a home equity line of credit on their house, lessons from running a family business, and we even talk dating and what it's like being your own rich boyfriend. Don't worry, I will explain. We also, of course, talk about Selling Sunset.

We cover how the show has changed her life, the business and personal fallout from last season's mega drama, and the actual finances behind filming the show. Now, spoiler alert. If you think these cast members make money just for showing up, think again. Also, when the cameras weren't rolling, she gave me the TLDR on this season, which comes out this week, and holy moly, you're going to have to see this stuff to believe It's all right. I love it. Here's Emma.

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Emma Hernen, welcome back to Money Rehab. Thank you.

I'm so excited to be here.

So excited to have you here. And since the last time we talked, I feel like your business endeavors have just kept growing and growing. So can you give me a 30,000 input view of Coast to Coast, of empanadas, of real estate? What's happening in Emma's Empire today?

I mean, I'm just continuing to grow everything from my real estate portfolio to my empanadas, to my food business, Looking at another manufacturing facility to buy. So just continuing to build the empire, grow, and kick ass.

You are. You definitely are. And you've done it since you were, what?

Sixteen.

Which 16-year-old invests in their family business?

I know, right? How did that happen? It was just something that I was super passionate about. From a really young age, I knew that I wanted to give back to my family. I knew I wanted to be super successful, and I knew that hard work came with that. So at 16, when I would I get those kids down for a nap when I was nannying, instead of watching TV, I was like, what stocks is he investing in? The family. Yeah, the family that I was nannying for. And that's how I got into investments.

And then you invested in your own family business, right? Yes.

My grandfather left my mom and my aunts the company. And when you start a company or you left a company, there's payroll, there's equipment, there's all of these things that, well, you're inhabiting a company, but you don't realize everything that goes into it. So they needed some loan. And I was like, well, I have it. So my mom asked if she could borrow it. And I mean, the company is massive now. And my mom's an amazing female entrepreneur. I mean, amazing CEO. She's taking the company from a tiny little scooping crabcakes out of the kitchen, too. We're in stores across the US.

Well, tell me what happens in a family business, because with a co founder, you can get space from them. But with family, you're not getting space. So what was it like working with family? Did you ever have to on things.

The family dynamics are interesting. I mean, my brother, my aunt, my dad, everyone works for the family company, my cousins, everyone. And when I say it's a family run company, it's a family run company, which is good and bad because when it comes to disagree agreements. I just called my mom right before this, and her and my brother were screaming at each other. I'm like, You guys need to simmer down. I'm pretty sure there's people in there that you need to be doing an SQF certification and a million other things. But I do think it's really special because with a family company, there's a lot of heart and soul in it, and myself being involved. That's why I wanted the company to do so well, because it's my family. It's their livelihood, and that was why it was so important to me.

Is there a way that you guys resolve stuff like that?

I mean, I'm definitely I feel like the most chill in the family, so I don't really fight with anyone. But my mom, my brother, and my aunt definitely sometimes go head to head. And then my dad's now in the mix, so it's very interesting. But they all call me it for advice.

And does he stay out of it, too?

He's really chilled. He works in the office, and he's definitely slower paced, which doesn't always flow with the rest of the family. So, yeah, sometimes everyone will get into it, which is funny. Yeah, your mom sounds spicy, but... Oh, my mom is totally spicy. She's the sweetest person you'll ever meet in your whole life. Hard worker, will do anything, take the shirt off her back for you, but she's spicy.

I saw that she maxed out a home equity line of credit, right? And put it into the business?

Oh, yeah, she did. And I give her credit for that because it's It's a really risky move. I mean, when you're putting every single thing on the line for your company. And she was fortunate, and we all worked hard as a family to make sure it worked. But it's risky, as you know. It's so risky.

Was it a source of stress for her?

Or was she sure she would make it work? For sure. And my dad I'm glad, too. You know what I mean? Because that was his home equity as well.

No, that's next level. You can either get really risk-tolerant or risk-averse. You mentioned when you were starting Coast to Coast that you didn't start normally like people would make food in a kitchen. I think your grandpa did that, right? But you bought the whole manufacturing facility. Why did you take such a swing like that out of the gate?

So I bought the manufacturing facility because I knew that there was always going to People are always going to want to come. Whether I have a company, my family has a company, people are going to come and they want a copacker, someone trustworthy, someone that's been in the business. And we've been in the business for years. We've been in the food industry for so long. And honestly, manufacturing is what we know. That is our specialty. We are one of the largest manufacturers on the East Coast, and we're continuing to expand, and everyone comes to us. Another thing I will say is we're very reasonably priced, and that's why we're able to help a lot of startups start. Whereas a lot of companies, they'll charge an arm and a leg, and they don't care if they're successful or not. When we really are very caring, very family-run, so we want companies to succeed. We give them the recipes, no pun intended, to success. I think that that makes a brands.

So when you were thinking about buying a manufacturing facility, first, did you want to be vertically integrated, owning your whole supply chain, which is especially important now, or did you want to maybe be a manufacturer for other brands before focusing on your own?

I knew I was going to start my own for sure. So I knew I was going to have my own line. I wanted to do it for other people. I knew it was another source of income. I knew my family's company, I could manufacture all their stuff. So it just made sense for me. And it's something that I didn't necessarily always I always planned to buy my own manufacturing facility. And then when the opportunity came up, I was like, you know what? I should. I knew I was about to start my own company anyways. So I was like, this actually makes sense. And I'd rather own my manufacturing facility as opposed to, We were leasing a space at the time or finding another copacker because no one's going to do it as well as you are.

How much is a manufacturing facility? It's a lot.

So I would say our manufacturing facility is probably worth around 6 to 8 million. And we put a lot into So we bought it and then we put millions into it, too. I mean, state-of-the-art facility. Everything is automated. And this all makes a really big difference.

So all the manufacturing is done in the States?

Yes. Everything.

Nothing with tariffs is affecting?

No. Everything is in Boston. So that's why I'm home a lot. I mean, A, I love my family, but B, my manufacturing facility is there, so I go home a lot. And we put in... So everything is automated. We used to have handmade spring rolls, handmade creper and goods, everything. And And now everything is automated. It's actually fascinating to see. So if you ever come to the East Coast, you have to check it out. I would love to.

It's really cool. Thank you for telling me how much it costs, because I couldn't have even guessed. It's not my space at all. I'm so fascinated by the CPG space and all that goes into it, too. And I think a lot of young female founders in particular want to get into the CPG space because it's something tangible that you can touch, literally. But it's also so challenging from starting out in financing your own product or purchase order, financing, and all of that, how have you dealt with the CPG challenges? And what should somebody who's looking at the space know about it?

For sure. I think the CPG space in general is a difficult space to get into. And now there's a lot of companies that are starting up, and then they're going out of business. And a lot of companies are, they're raising capital right away. And I think that that's fine because we're in that shark tank mentality. But a lot of times when it's not their own money, they're not good with it. And we ran into that with one of the companies that came to us to copack. They were getting so much money from all these investors, and they weren't allocating it right. And we were thinking in our heads, this was our money. We would be doing it way different. We'd be much more reserved. Just because you have it, you don't spend it. And it is other people's money. And so they ended up shutting down. And a lot of times that is the case. You know what I mean? You have to treat it like it's your own money. I will say if you're going to go out and you want to do a raise and you want to get money from other people, you have to treat it like it's your own.

I think that's only fair. So that's definitely advice that I would give to anyone starting a CPG company. If you want people to invest in your company, then treat the money like it's your own. For me, I bootstrapped everything myself. I haven't taken a penny. I've turned down millions of dollars from people wanting to invest because it was really important for me to get to a certain point by myself. And I have. I bootstrapped everything from packaging. And when I say packaging, I am down doing the photoshoot. I have the photographer, and I don't hire a food stylist. I cook and do everything myself. So So I like being hands-on, and I do think that that makes a difference.

I love that you say that because I think that the raising money, the shark tank effect has been glorified so much. I bootstrapped my business, too. I put in, at the time, my life savings, and I felt every dollar.

No, it's so different when you're bootstrapping it yourself and everything is yours. You care more about where the money is going. And I think you should always care. So I think if you're going to decide to do a raise, I think you have to treat it like you're bootstrapping it. And I wish that more founders and CEOs would think about it that way.

So you turned down capital, but what if somebody wanted to buy you?

Or is there a strategic? I actually have gotten an offer and I turned it down. I wouldn't say that I would not be open to selling by any means. But right now, I'm building it. And I basically just launched Coast to Coast, and I'm already getting into the top stores in the US. So for me, right now isn't the right time to sell. I would be open to it down the road for sure.

And when you talk to founders who are just starting in the CPG space or just in this type of food space, and they don't have millions of dollars to buy a manufacturing facility, how would you tell them to start in their kitchen? Because there's a It was a weird time. I remember being on a show that was like a shark tank for kids and consumer products. And there was this weird dance between getting in stores and being able to fund the product to get in stores. There's like an odd limbo.

There's like a weird... I mean, look, you're going to have to probably find a copacker, whether you're doing it out of your kitchen.

Can you explain that?

Yes. Say you are doing something out of your kitchen, whether it's doing cornbread, for instance. We'll just do, for instance, It sounds delicious. You're doing it out of your kitchen. You have a famous recipe. Everyone loves it. Everyone wants to buy it. Now you have to figure out, okay, you're getting all these orders. You can't keep up with it in your kitchen. You need to find somebody that can mass produce it. So that's a copacker. So for instance, we are copackers for numerous other brands. And you find a copacker, it's not easy to do. You would think it would be easier. It's not easy to do. And then once you find one that works and they can make your product and you can still profit because you want to make sure that they're going to want to make money, but then the store has to make money, you have to make money. So that's why it's a weird position to be in when you're looking for a copacker because you want to find one that's reasonable, that's also quality. And then once you find a copacker, getting into stores, getting those POs, and a A lot of times that's difficult because if you don't have connections with the stores, you have to find a broker, and then they want a % as well.

So are you taking on more CPG companies? Yeah. Are you open for business or how does somebody find?

We have endless capabilities, and we're looking at more manufacturing facilities to buy. There's one down the street we just put an offer in. So we're continuing to grow because we now... We just know the industry so well. I have an amazing team. My brother works for me. He's amazing. So we have an amazing team. Anyone that wants to come, anyone that has a really cool brand or they're looking to switch copackers because they don't like their copackers. Yeah, we love the business, and we're also a really great copacker because we genuinely want the brand to succeed.

I love that. And you don't have to be in Boston or it doesn't have to be local.

No, no, no. It doesn't have to be local by any means because we ship all over the United States.

How do they find you if they want to come your way?

They can email me, DM me. I love that. Yeah, anything. A lot of times they'll end up calling my mom because they can't figure out how to get in touch with me. And they're like, We saw through MS It's a nice thing. And we've actually started manufacturing for some companies that way.

That's awesome. I love that you're doing that. You started with the vision of scaling from the get-go.

For sure. And I know that most people don't do it that way. No one really buys a manufacturing facility before they have their company. But you do. But I did. And I'm really proud of that, and I wouldn't change it by any means.

I'm proud of you for doing that. Thank you. I think it's awesome. Thank you. Truly. And so we've touched on a few streams of revenue so far, but tell me if I'm missing anything. So we have Coast to Coast. We have real estate selling Sunset. You're an angel investor. What am I missing?

I mean, I invest in real estate, and then also I have real estate clients, too. So I have my own personal real estate portfolio where I buy investment properties is my own real estate portfolio, angel investing, and then just the stock market and things like that.

Which one is the biggest?

Well, the food industry is my baby, just because I'm super passionate about it. I also really love to cook. So all the recipes that are mine, I actually created them. I didn't hire a chef to do anything. Everything from the down to the very last spice for all of my company's things are mine. And so I think there's something special about that. I'm really passionate about that. I love real estate. I definitely Tell all of my friends, the sooner that you can get in, the better. Even if you can't move in right away. So for instance, I have a friend looking right now. She can't quite afford to move into the property, but she can buy it, but she doesn't really want to carry that monthly nut. So I told her, buy it, put someone in there. When you're ready to move in, move in. Let someone else pay your mortgage till you're ready. So she's going to do that. And that's what I did. So the first home that I bought, I wasn't ready to move in. It was also a big house. I didn't really need all that space. I bought it, had it rented out for two years, made money every single month, and then I moved in, and now I'm about to remodel it.

So it was just a good little way to get into the market.

Do you invest with other people?

I do, yeah. I invest in commercial deals with other people. So if someone has a deal or something like that, I'm a good person to work with. I'm super easygoing, so I don't mind investing with people. If I can help someone else succeed, I love to do it.

You for sure are. On camera, off camera, I can attest to that. For sure. And investing, it sounds like in the market. So you started really young with this just overseeing what the family that you were working with was doing, right? So you were trying to learn, which I love so early. So few of us do. I wish I could go back in time. My 16-year-old self put money in the market. What did you end up buying?

So I did a lot of health care, and that did really, really well. So I invested in different health care companies around when I was 16. I remember sitting in math class in high school, and this wasn't going to be on the quiz. So no one was paying attention, but I was paying attention. And he was like, If you invest $10,000, by the time you're 30 or whatever it was, you'll have a million dollars. And it wasn't going to be on the test. So no one was listening. But I was paying attention because I was like, wait, I want to have a million dollars. No one had been a millionaire in my family yet, and I wanted to be. And I remember because that stuck with me, and it happened to be right around the same time frame that I was nannying for that family. So it was perfect timing for me to see, okay, if I start saving, if I start doing this, then I can do that. So I happen to work for a family that... My husband went to Harvard, he worked on Wall Street, and so I got the insight there.

But also my math teacher made There's a really big difference. I don't even know if he knows this. I should probably try and get in touch with him because honestly, that was part of the reason that I got so into investing and saving.

Who is it? Mr. Ford. Mr. Ford, however you are in the world right now.

Thank you so much. You helped make me a multimillionaire?

You've talked about stories of keeping money in a stock drawer to give to your parents and your brother and your family. Have you always been that generous? Do you give friends money?

Oh, I mean, I've lent friends money for sure. Everyone comes to me when they want a loan or need money or something like that. I've done that my whole life. And everyone knows I'm just that person that if they need something, I would definitely be there for them. And also I love spoiling people. So if it's someone's birthday or at Christmas time, my love language is giving. So I love spoiling people. Seeing other people happy makes me happy. I Genuinenly, that's my love language. It always has been. And I think I realized that probably when I started saving and stuffing all that money in a sock and then me putting it into piles and then spoiling my family and my grandparents for Christmas.

Has it ever come back to bite you? Because there's a saying, if you lend a friend money, decide what you value.

I mean, I have not got all the money back that I've lent. But that's okay. I'm totally fine with it. And I think when you lend money, you may get it back, you may not. And you have to be okay with that. You can't hold it against somebody. I'm actually still close with a lot of people that haven't paid me back, and that's okay. Because again, I believe in karma. You know what I mean? I've been fortunate to be really successful, and not everyone is as fortunate. So if I can give back in a small way like that, I'm okay with that.

It's a really good way to think about it.

For sure. Yeah. And I also believe you can't hold grudges. I think it's not good for your well-being.

Holding a grudge is taking poison hoping the other person will die. Yeah.

If you just can't do it, it's not good for your mental state by any means.

It's a A really lovely way to view it. I'm sure that it's been hard at times to do that. But even being a self-made millionaire and being the first one in your family, that probably also, for some people, comes with anxiety about losing it. Have you ever felt financial trauma or anxiety?

For sure. I mean, to be honest with you, being successful is something that was so important to me, and then I was able to accomplish it. But now it's like, okay, wait, I feel like there's a lot of pressure to make sure that... But not that I'm perfect all the time, but to a certain degree, I want to make sure in business I'm perfect, and I never want anything to fail. However, I feel like there was times where I was afraid to launch certain things because the fear of failure. I didn't want anything to fail ever. And I feel like that's a big piece of advice I would give to entrepreneurs out there and CEOs. You have to let go of the fear of failure because failing sometimes is okay. It pushes you through another door. For instance, when I was launching my vegan company, Emily & Co, So I had POs from Costco, and I told them that I was going to do impossible meat. Do you remember it was impossible and beyond. And at the time, I had used all their product. It tastes phenomenal. Everything was perfect. They loved it. Po was 500,000.

And then all of a sudden, they wouldn't sign the licensing deal. Why? I have no idea. They weren't doing it. And I was like, But I have a PO, freaking out. My mom was like, Emma, you need to fix this. You need to get this I'm like, They will not sign. We can't say that we're using Impossible if they won't sign the licensing deal. So I ended up reaching out to every single person that Beyond Meat followed. I ended up getting in contact with Beyond Meat. And when I say BeyondMeet, it was the best partnership ever. They were a pleasure to work with. They were an amazing company. Their team was amazing. Just so sweet. They let me put their packaging right on the box, which for me was huge. I was a small little company. And then beyond me, it was huge. Millions of dollars of marketing, which was great because I got to piggyback now off their marketing. I remember at the time, my mom was actually so upset. She was like, We're never going to get in again. They're never going to put another PO if we don't fulfill this. And sure enough, we did get in, and it was amazing.

And I just remember thinking that everything was over, that the company wasn't going to succeed. And I remember being like, oh, my God, the weight of the world was on my shoulders. I actually remember driving on Wilshire Boulevard, just completely panicked. What do I do? And then And I ended up getting the partnership with Beyond, and it was such a blessing. And that was the right door for me to go through from the beginning.

Emma, I love that story. Have you put this on social media?

I haven't really put that story on social media.

That's a good one because there's the trend of the unhinged things people did to start their business or early in their career.

Oh, yeah. I'm like a stage five clinger. If I need some connection or even I just got into this massive retailer, which I'll announce soon. But I just got in and I literally just went on LinkedIn, messaged I'm messaging all of the buyers and finally got in touch with one. And now I just got confirmation that I got four of my items in there. That's awesome. That's what I'm saying. If you put your mind to something, if there's a will, there's a way.

Listen, ladies, you know how to be an unofficial private investigator for men.

Use those same skills for business.

Look through everybody that your brand is following. Is that how you did it? Who they were following or who was- Yeah, who they were following, because obviously, that means they were probably interested in them or had connections with them.

And yeah, that's how I got in touch with them.

It's an awesome story. And I wonder, just from coming from that background, for me, not coming from money and then coming into my own money, I always worry that I'll go back to how I started. And so is there a fear that you're going to lose it, or is there a number that makes... Is there an FU number that you have?

Yes, probably. I'm a big dreamer, so it's really high, probably. But of course, I definitely have that fear all the time, and that's why I do continue to work so hard. I want to have a family and settle down. And I think that when that day comes, I'll probably take more of a back seat. But that's why it's so important now to build Coast to Coast, to make sure everything is running without me. I don't want them to need me. I'm going to create jobs for people, and I'm going to continue to work hard. But I want to be at a point, at some point, where I can completely... I don't have to come in, and it will run smoothly, and that's what I'm doing right now.

So what is the number in your bank account?

I mean, it's definitely in the hundreds of- Hundred million dollars? Hundreds of millions of dollars, yeah.

It's so funny. We ask this question a lot because sometimes it's not really what's in the bank account.

It's like an irrational feeling. Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you, that's probably somewhat around where it is. I've gotten an And I got an offer for Emily & Co, and the number was really, really great. And I turned it down because I know that the company, everything together is going to be worth a lot more one day, especially with what I'm building. And so I turned it down, which, again, very, very risky because people would be like, how could you ever turn down that amount of money? Because that's life-changing money. And I turned it down for the bigger picture. And I'm going to continue to work hard and get the number that I want so I can stay home and raise my babies.

Get it. I want to talk about selling Sunset. The end of last season. Not awesome. It was a bad time. There was not even an allegation, but a lie. You're having an affair with a married man. You didn't find out till the end of the season.

I didn't find out till right before it was going to air. I didn't find out till right before it was going to air.

I can't imagine what that time must have been like.

It was crazy because it was such a lie that I didn't even think twice about it. I never thought that was an option. You know what I mean? I had no idea. I remember just being completely blindsided. And I remember Chelsea was the one that called me and was like, Hey, I was just doing an interview, and the interviewer asked, Hey, how do you feel about the rumor about Emma? And somebody from the PR team was like, Wait, she doesn't know what you guys are talking about. You can't say it. The show hasn't come out. So Chelsea She calls me and she was like, Hey, I just want to let you know there's a rumor about you. Never in a million years did I think that was the rumor. I could not figure out to save my life, what it could have been. So I call Mary, I call Amanda. I'm like, What was said behind my back that nobody told me? And Mary was actually the one that told me. She was like, Oh, my God, that made the season? We told Nicole not to say that. There was no truth to that. And sure enough, that was Nicole's story timeline the whole season.

And yeah, I had no idea. And I mean, it's a situation where it was so far fetched. I was actually seeing somebody at the time, and they took situations like there was a little bite mark on my arm, and they tried to make it seem like, oh, it's this married guy. I mean, there was zero truth to that, and I was just completely blindsided. But you know what the problem is? Is that- Tell me. I look a certain way, so I'm judged already based off my appearance. And my entire life. I've made sure that I'm completely different from how I look. I've only ever dated three guys my whole life. I've only ever been with people that I've dated. That's a really important thing to me. So for this rumor to be spread, I was like, no, they didn't. I'm always the first one to go home. I barely drink, never tried a drug in my life, and I've only ever had boyfriend. So when that came out, it was so hurtful because it's so against my character.

Yeah. And you're a woman's woman. Yeah. Oh, my God.

I'm like a girls' girl to my core. That's why I was like, Wait, what? No.

What made me think of something that you said when you were on the show three years ago. We'd love to play it for you.

Oh, God. Oh, God.

Your former self had some advice for you.

My biggest piece of advice for conflict is take the high road. And normally, if someone's coming after you nonstop, it's an issue with them. It's an internal issue with them, and it's not you. So remove yourself from the negative energy and focus on the positive.

How does hearing that make you feel?

I love that. I really do feel like I've taken that advice, too. There's been so many situations, but I'm like, wait. Everyone's like, wait, how are you that calm? And I've always taken the high road, and I've never got into it. I'm not a fighter. I'm a lover. And I'm all about standing up for yourself, for sure. But I do think taking the high road is the best way to go.

I saw that this experience made you want to quit the show. Understandable. But Emma, you should have called me. Not all Nicole's are bad. No, I know. Even when I was just saying that story and I said Nicole, I was like, Wait.

I'm giving the Nicole name a bad name, but no.

I would have beat whoever needed to be beat up. I am small but mighty.

Oh, I love that. I love that. I love you.

What made you change your mind?

Because I feel like I have worked so hard to get where I am today. And I feel like I wasn't going to let someone that was so negative take that away from me, especially because I am all about being a good person gets you far in life and being a bad person and what she did and everyone that was involved in that. You know what I mean? Because ultimately, the producers did let that air knowing that it wasn't true. So everyone that was involved with that, I believe in karma, and I wasn't going to let them get away with it. And I needed to have a voice. And I think having a voice is so important, especially as a woman.

We actually have a story to tell I'll tell you about her, but we'll tell you after.

Oh, God. Nothing will shock me.

Chris Schell also said that she wouldn't come back if Nicole came back, right? Or if they added a zero to her paycheck. So she is back. She is back. Nicole is back.

Well, she's back, but you have to tune in because there's some drama, and I think it might be out there. I'm not sure. But anyways, she was back, and then she's a little wild, can't keep her mouth shut. And like I said, good things happen to good people. And ultimately, if you're not a good person, sometimes you don't get rewarded.

So with these reality shows, when you put something out there, Add another zero to my paycheck, do you think that actually happens?

Or the network- I mean, no. No, they're not just going to do that. I mean, especially with Netflix, if you've been on for this amount of seasons, you're going to get this. It's not, We're going to go tweet something, and then we're going to get an extra zero. No, no, no. Yeah, I mean, that would be nice. I would actually start tweeting. I don't tweet, but I would start tweeting if that was the case. I mean, you saw how I am. If I want to get into a store, I will mess his messes. But if I knew I was going to get an extra zero for tweets, my Twitter would be blowing up.

I mean, the finances, though, selling side of it is crazy to me because if you get cut out of the episode, you don't get paid.

Yes, you don't get paid. What the heck? So they do that a lot. So, yeah, they make sure that they don't put you in or they won't put someone in. I think one of the girls this season was saying that she wasn't in a few of the episodes, so they didn't have to pay the episodic rate.

I mean, I've seen all the advertisements. I'm like, Everybody is so stunning. The show must pay for all of this glam and styling. And everybody is just a bombshell. So you guys pay for everything yourself?

Yeah, everything.

Like, your glam.

Every glam. It's a TV show. I know. I guess for interviews, the green screen, they do provide glam for that. But if you want to do your own glam, I got my own glam. I love my team, so they don't cover that. All the episodes when we're coming to the or at a house showing or anything like that. That's all on us. So some of the girls don't get glam. But ultimately, if you're building a brand, people like to watch fabulous dresses and heels and purses and stuff like that on TV. So if you're building a brand, it's smart to invest in yourself, which is what I did, which is why the first few seasons, I was in the negative for what I was making versus what I was spending. But it was all an investment.

So you were in the red, then you broke even, then you got in the black, you're profitable after how many seasons?

Definitely the first one for sure. First two, I was probably in the negative. And then I started to break even. And then now, obviously- It's profitable. Yeah, it's profitable.

Was there a time when it was in the red that you didn't want to go back?

Or you knew the big picture? No, because I was looking at the big picture. So for me, that wasn't it. If anything, it was more like, oh, my God, how much more of my personal life are they going to take and spin? And it's a lot. It's emotionally draining for sure. And I think I have pretty thick skin. But the Internet is not always nice. So So I had to get used to that. I was like, wait, oh, my God. Putting my face next to this face. I was like, oh, God, people are mean. I had to get used to that for sure. But if anything- How do you deal with it? Yeah. I mean, my family. I think just being really grounded and close to my family makes a big difference for sure. But yeah, it was one of those... If I was going to step away from the show, it would actually not be a financial decision. It would be more so, okay, I want to focus on my family or whatever it may be, less than financial.

And as a founder, obviously, what they say about you or what they put in the edit affects your business. A hundred %. You don't get any control?

Zero. That's why I Last season, it was honestly so devastating because I've worked so hard, and I feel like I've given them a lot, too. You know what I mean? Even for a season, talking about my relationships, I've given them a lot where some of the girls aren't quite as open. You can't I film with this person. My husband's not coming on or whatever it may be, where I was like, I was going on dates on the show. I was pretty open. And then this last season, I actually filmed with somebody that I was dating. And I put my life out there. So I feel like for them to do me dirty a little bit, I was like, wait a minute. Why would you do that to me? Out of all the people, I was really hurt, too, because I'm genuinely, really caring and sweet, even to all of the crew. You know I mean? And not everyone's super nice. Let's just say that. Not everyone is super nice. I'll show up with donuts or cookies. And they will all say I'm so, so sweet to add absolutely every single person. So I'm like, how could they do that to me?

They did you dirty. That's why it was so difficult, especially As a woman in business, that's the last thing you want to be perceived as now. So that was really hard for me. And that was really hard for my family to see because I am really tough. And my family, they were really sad that they would do that to me. My family was probably I'm more upset than me. I'm sure. I was with them in Boston when I found out. I was actually with my niece and my nephew. I'd taken them out for lunch, and I just step away from the table just to call Mary, call Chelsea, figure out what was going on.

I'm sure your mom wanted to come for them.

Oh, don't mess with my mom. My mom is way worse. I'm so chill. People make fun of me, say whatever. My mom will literally cut somebody. She's crazy. We were walking in Beverly Hills the other day. This is a funny story. We were walking and somebody mocked me, which was so crazy. I was actually with Sheila.

What? Yeah. She was on her makeup.

It was Sheila's birthday. I was taking her shopping for her birthday, and we were walking. You know you're super happy. And I was like, this is this woman that walked by. And she mocked my laugh and made in front of me. My mom was like, What did you have to say? I'm like, Oh, my God. Mom, chill is fine. But I'm like, I don't care. Nothing bothers me. But oh, my mom is like, she's very protective mama bear, for sure.

Now being a new mom myself, if somebody mocked my daughter, They're done. I can't imagine you're always so happy and positive. But were there dark days around then?

I remember waking up with a pit in my stomach because I'm like, Wait, this is real. And this is about to air, too. And I actually did reach out to... Well, I had Brett reach out to Nicole, and they were like, Nicole, this isn't true. Can you please just do a statement where you were attracted? This isn't fair to Emma. And I actually gave her that grace to do that. And I was told that she was going to do it. I was told she was going to say, I didn't know all the facts. And then whatever reason, she's unwell. She was like, no. She told them, yeah, she was probably going to do it. I think she felt bad for a second. And then realized it probably wasn't a good look for her. So didn't do it. And I waited, and I was way too nice, obviously. And she never did a statement, which is fine because it gets cleared up this season. You know what I mean? It was a full-blown lie. However, I gave her that grace to apologize. And I don't regret it because I still think, again, being the bigger person and taking the high road.

But I was told that she was going to take it back and apologize, and she never did. And I just remember every day waking up just hoping that it would be better. And I had to delete so many comments on my thing saying home wrecker and things like that. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is literally the furthest thing from the truth. And now I have to worry about this on my Instagram page that I've worked so hard for building my brand, building my business, and everything along those lines.

So you delete the mean comments?

With that one, I did because I was like, Wait, this was like, it was really difficult for me to see on my page. Normally, I actually don't. When people say, oh, she's not pretty or she needs this or whatever.

That person is blind.

No, but I get that a lot. So people say mean things all the time. That's fine. I won't delete those. People can go back and forth. But those comments, I couldn't process that people would say that. So at the beginning, I was like, Oh, my God, I need to delete these. This is awful. And then eventually, they did die down. But when the show first came out, it was like, We should have known. And I was like, Wait, what? You guys believe this? It's what was put out there. So people that don't know that there can be lies put on a reality show. They believe it.

Right. But this was next level. Everybody knows that reality is not reality. But this was beyond.

Oh, no. This was taking to a disgusting level, to be honest with you.

And I think with the online stuff, it It's your digital house, and you wouldn't let somebody come into your actual house and your home and call your name. So I'm here for it. But you have been really gracious about the balance. You've been so grateful to Netflix, too. Tony Robin says, If you're going to blame somebody, blame them for everything, the good and the bad. Blame your parents for being terrible parents, but also bringing you into this world. And so you've struck that really beautiful balance where you know that it's opened a lot of doors for you in business.

For sure. I never went out and bashed I never bashed anyone. I never bashed the producers. I actually never publicly bashed Nicole, to be honest with you. I feel like I definitely took the high road again. My cast mates, they definitely did not do the same, but I will say they had my back, and I'm super fortunate for that because sometimes when you lose a little bit of your voice because you're going through something, it's nice when other people can have your back and stick up for you. So I am very grateful for that because I had everyone came to my defense on that one, which was nice.

Was there any big business deal that happened or any business store that opened because of the show?

A hundred %. I got into Costco, my newest retailer, which is my dream retailer. So I definitely... That's why I'm saying I am so fortunate for the doors that it has opened. So yes, I I have to deal with things that are unimaginable? And yes, for sure. But then it's like there's doors that are opened that wouldn't have been opened if it wasn't for the show. And I'm very aware of that, and I'm very grateful for that.

What's your favorite part of the season?

I'd I'll probably have to say I have a fun little Mel's Diner event where I have my empanadas on the menu at Mel's. And so the only other people that have items at Mel's are Lana Del Rey and Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I'm in very good company. And we throw this really fun old Hollywood party. And it's just a really proud moment, especially after everything that I went through the prior season. It's really good to just have that feel good, successful moment. And I waited to put my empanadas on with a restaurant that I really believed in, and there's nothing more iconic than Mel's. So I put them on the menu. We had a great party, and they're still on there. So if you want to pop in and get some vegan cheeseburger empanadas, they are on the menu.

It's delicious. And has the show driven sales?

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think just people saw that I was posting from the party there, and people go in. It's actually right across from the office. So people know the correlation between the two. We've actually ordered empanadas to the office from Mel's, which is hilarious, but they're really good, and it was definitely a proud moment for me, for sure. Netflix?

Yes. You should throw MFM many parties and promote the brand as far as I'm concerned.

Well, actually, I see that party by myself. You did? No, no, no. They do not throw parties. They do not pay for any of that. Just to clarify- What the heck? I paid for it. I did that all by myself. Oh, yeah. That entire party, I did. If you have an over-the-top party, that is not thrown by Netflix, which is crazy. So that's why some people don't throw parties, or else everyone would be throwing parties. Think about it. If Netflix was going to pay for it, everyone be like, Oh, it's my birthday. It's this. It's that. No, everything has to come out of our pockets. Wow. Fun fact.

Even if it's good television?

Yeah, even if it's good TV.

When you think about all the opportunities the show has opened for you in business, in particular, how do you balance how much you're going to disclose or how much of your personal life you're going to show, especially after being burned?

That was one of the things when I went and I decided to join the show. I was like, You know what? I'm either going to go in and be an open book, which I think that people will appreciate, or I have to not show my whole life. But I think that that's risky, too, because the audience wants to be able to connect with you, whether you're in this perfect relationship, whether you're struggling with a relationship, And they're things that aren't always fun to share. And I made a decision that I was going to show all of my life. And I feel like I have. And has it hurt me at times? Yes, but more so when they're doing me dirty, because When I'm showing my real life, I'm okay with that. I'm totally fine, even if I'm not in the perfect relationship, I'm okay showing that. It's when they take something that's not true, that's when I'm not okay with it. You cannot take, and I get it, we sign up for this, but that's the only thing that I'm actually not okay with is lying. But other than that, I'm actually fine showing my personal life, talking about my relationships, showing the good, the bad, the ups, the downs, because that's part of life, and life isn't perfect.

It sure isn't. But is there anything that now makes you nervous after that situation?

I mean, definitely more guarded, for sure. Even when I was filming this last season, I was like, Well, Well, you guys did me dirty. So you really want me to film with this person. Oh, you want me to film on a date. You want me to do this. It's like, I don't necessarily trust you. So yeah, what happened last season really did have an effect on me because I was more guarded. And I don't like to be guarded because the audience doesn't want to see me guarded. It's hard to trust the situation and the show and everything like that when they did do you dirty. But I will say they were pretty good about everything for season. I have seen season nine, so it's a lot. But at least they didn't lie about something. You know what I mean? What happened season 8 was completely unacceptable and should not have been allowed by any means. But season 9, I finally did let my guard down a little bit, and I I was able to talk about my real life situations and what was going on and things like that. But it's a lot. It's a lot.

Reality TV is a lot. I can't imagine. Unless you're in it, you can't really explain it. You can't really describe it to anyone.

It sounds like so much, emotionally. And you've often talked about how you know you're underestimated, especially in business. And you've said that you would rather invest in yourself than buy the next purse or trendy product. But it's still hard because on reality shows, especially like that, there's so much luxury porn.

I know. It's a happy mix and a happy medium between, okay, I want to invest and I want to save and I want to be crazy successful. But I also have to look good, so I have to have nice things. But I feel like I have a really good balance, and I have a fund that I have to allocate towards designer nice goods. And then I have my savings, which is always a priority, and majority of the money goes in there.

Or you've said that people think or assume you have a rich boyfriend, but you are your own rich boyfriend.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've always taken care of myself my entire life. I've never had someone take care of me or anything like that. And even I remember when I was first moving to LA, people assumed, A, I either had a rich boyfriend or I came from some family money. And I remember people totally judged me, a friend of mine, actually, because I had a Range Rover. And I remember he said something. And I'll never forget it. He was like, Oh, you must have some rich boyfriend. Or he said some term. And I was like, What? No. And I remember being so offended, Why? I can't be successful on my own. And I remember, Okay, that was a little motivation for me just to go out there and work harder and prove I don't need to be with somebody that has money. And my family, I love supporting them. You know what I mean?

I'm always curious, though, just because you have it and you don't need it, does that mean you don't want it? Because when I was dating, I could always pay for dinner, but I didn't want to.

Yeah, no. I will say there's something to be said about, okay, if I'm going to... At this point in my life, I want to date someone who's a hard worker and successful, but I don't necessarily need to date someone that has money. But I think that it's important to have that drive. I want to have kids. I want someone that A, wants to be a dad, very important, but also has a drive and is motivated as someone that has worked as hard as I have. So I don't need to be with someone successful, but I think at this point in my life, it makes sense for me to be with someone who has at least a similar drive. I'm fine being more successful than someone. I'm totally fine with that. But I want them to at least appreciate that because I've been in situations where they didn't appreciate that.

But there's no splitting the track.

No, that's weird. I mean, I would rather pick it up than split. No, no, no. No, we don't split checks. That's so weird. No, no. I don't mind picking it up, but I can't split a check. I mean, and especially we're going to go out again. I got it or you can get it. You know what I mean?

Have you ever been the The breadwinner?

Oh, yeah.

And how does that play out?

I'm fine. Does it hurt their ego? Yeah, I will say it actually did. It affects their ego a bit. That's the only reason that I'm not... It was a little bit tough on their ego, which meant it was tough on the relationship. I'll leave it at that without throwing all of my exes under the bus. But yes, I have been the breadwinner, and I think that's a little bit tough for their ego, for sure.

It's not going to be for the right one.

No, for sure. And I I want someone that is proud of me. And if I go up on stage to speak at an event, they're excited for me, and they're proud of me, and they're my biggest cheerleader, because I would be their biggest cheerleader no matter what they're doing. So I just want that reciprocated.

Emma, we end all of our episodes for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. I know you love talking about investing in female founders, in business. What's a money tip that listeners can take to the bank?

Whatever you're passionate about, start now, do something with it tomorrow, whether it's starting a business plan for something that you wanted to start. But I feel like even for myself, my biggest regret with anything that I've done business-wise is procrastinating. And I hope that someone listening to this right now was on the fence if they should write in their notebook and make a business plan, or if they should go meet with somebody and set that meeting up tomorrow. Do it. And that's my biggest piece of advice because I definitely procrastinated with a couple of things, and I just wish I started sooner. But again, fear of failure. Sometimes it will get the best of you. So don't ever be scared to fail because it's part of your journey. And I just really advise all the people that I meet and all the people that I know and my family and everyone, do something tomorrow. Start. You're not going to regret it.

You're never as young as you are today.

Exactly.

We had a billboard once that said, I'm glad I didn't invest earlier, said no one ever.

Exactly. That's my thing is like everyone... I wish I bought every house that I ever looked at.

I know. What was I doing when I was in middle school instead of buying houses?

I know. Every house that I looked at, I'm like, Oh, my God, I wish I bought it because it's crazy what it's worth now from five years ago. You know what I mean? So, yeah, just whatever you're thinking about doing, do it today.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan LaVoy. Our researcher My next guest is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your moneyquestions, moneyrehab@moneynewsnetwork. Com, to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram @moneynews and TikTok @moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content.

And lastly, thank you.

No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.