Transcript of Take Back Your Power and Start Loving Your Life | Mel Robbins

How can I help you?

I just would love your advice on this. I have a boyfriend whom I love a lot for many reasons, but he hasn't worked in almost two years. He lives with me and isn't contributing financially, and it feels he doesn't see a problem with it. When I bring up getting a job, he gets defensive and often leads to not only a conversation that ends up not being productive, but he becomes more distant. He doesn't have a close relationship with his friends and family. I am his closest person in his life, and And I have learned that this makes it really difficult to persuade him or encourage him. I want to be supportive and allow him to have his own process of change, but it's frustrating because I'm paying for everything. And I also feel like I can't fully trust him, and he's turning away from me. I'm not sure if he's using me or he's going to become what I feel he's capable of becoming, which is a greater version of himself, and find a job and be better. This relationship feels toxic, but It also feels unique. But this is the greatest issue that I'm having right now, and I just don't know how to go about it.

Got you. That was great. Now, I want you to just talk to me and tell me what's going on, like a friend. Okay, so what's going on, Brooke?

Well, actually, right now, I've been finding that besides the work situation, we have been getting... Our relationship has not felt as toxic. We haven't been fighting. We've been getting along. I just don't bring it up. I don't bring up him not working as much because it does lead to friction. I can immediately see his uncomfortable in it, and he just shuts down and gets defensive. So I leave it alone. But I can't keep leaving it alone. I really feel it's inappropriate that this is what's going on.

Yeah. Does he know you're talking to me?

He does. I made He didn't leave the house, so he couldn't hear what was going on.

And how did he feel about you talking to me?

Good. He was supportive. I didn't go into detail about what it was about. He knows I listen to your podcast all the time, though, and I make him listen to it, too, or I'll sneak it on when I'm driving in the car, because that's usually when I listen to you anyways. Me and my sister were just talking about this the other day. I feel like with listening to your podcast I feel like I am realizing things that I need to change, and I'm doing it, but no one else around me in everyday life is doing the same things. So I'm trying to be patient and using different tools. And if she was laughing, she's like, I feel the same way. It's so hard to... You want to just put you in everybody's face and get them to understand it and feel the same way and change. But that's not always what happens.

Well, I want to get some facts. So how long have you been with your boyfriend?

Just about three years.

Okay. And for how long has he been unemployed?

It's going on two years now. It was January of last year that he officially stopped working completely. And when he was working and he wasn't doing that great, he was going there late and his boss was getting frustrated with him. And then I think his boss actually ended up letting him go. And he just hasn't been motivated to do anything since. He was incarcerated for eight years as well, and I don't know what that's like. And he does say a lot of times that he believes that that could have something to do with where he's at in his life, and he gets very frustrated with that.

I'm sure.

I don't know how to help them in that way at all. I want to be supportive, but I also need support, too.

Yes, you do. You deserve support. I'm glad you reached out for help. And there's a couple of things that I want to say right off the bat, because I'm going to ask a few more details.

Okay.

It's important for you to know that in the beginning of my career, I worked for legal aid, and I was a criminal defense attorney. I represented, in the early parts of my career, people like your boyfriend who were either accused of or convicted of crimes. I believe that once somebody has served their sentence, we need to do a much better job as a society in re-habilitating, in empowering, and in welcoming people back into society. I'm glad that you shared with me that he did spend eight years incarcerated because there is no question that the re-entry into life outside of the jail system is very jarring, dramatic, isolating. And one of the things that I know a lot of people that I represented really struggled with is not only the rejection and the scrutiny that you face when you get out, and in some states, the laws that make it very, very difficult for you to truly really find meaningful work, is that the structure of being incarcerated is completely removed. And even though it is horrendous to experience any time behind bars, there is this certainty that you come to rely on in terms of the day-to-day schedule.

And so for somebody like your boyfriend to get fired and lose that day-to-day structure, it does not surprise me at all that he has spiraled mentally, that he has not got any motivation, and that this has been a very challenging situation for you to watch as well. I'm saying that because I want you to know that I'm bringing a level of not first-hand experience, but having either represented or counseled or coached people that are in this exact situation This is more complex than, say, Christopher Robin's my husband losing his job because of the added shame that you feel, the added discrimination that he's probably experiencing when he goes in to try to find a job. Was he in jail for a felony? It must have been a felony because it was eight years. Was it a violent crime, or was it more of that white collar, as they say, crime of financial fraud, that stuff?

Well, it was a pretty I guess, you consider violent. It was armed robbery. It was a young kid, and it wasn't with a cap.

He fucked up.

Yeah, right. It was a shame because he was so young when he went. I do understand that he is not that person anymore and has lost a lot of time. What he often tells me, and before I started working on myself, I used to get very defensive and just stab him with my words because he really feels like he is owed something. He feels that he doesn't even know what he wants to do, who he is. He just got into skateboarding. At first, I was like, You're not a child. You know what I mean? You need to work. This is real life is. People have responsibilities. And my dad would get involved, too. I felt like I was bullying him in a sense, now that I have some different perspectives. And I do want to be supportive, and I don't want to be bullying him, and I don't want to discourage him more than he already is. I feel that he has so much potential. He's so smart. He's fluent in sign language. Privilege because his mother is deaf. He can figure out how to do anything. He's very capable, and he presents himself very well.

He's just not applying himself. He's just not going out there. And I don't see it changing anytime soon, and it's starting to freak me out.

It should freak you out because two years is a very long time. Two years is plenty of time to let somebody Coast. And I agree with you. It is time for the dynamic to change. And what you're really asking, and this is what's universal in your question, and one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you, is that we all have the experience in life of seeing the potential in somebody that we care deeply about and doing whatever we can to support, to push, to cajole, whatever we can to try to get that person that we care about to see their potential, too. And the truth is that at some point, if the person stays stuck and you start to feel as you said you do, Am I getting used? What is going on here? Something's got to change. You have to change the way you're showing up. And the reason why I say this is because while he's going to have to do the work to tap into his own potential. We've got to disrupt the dynamic between the two of you in a healthy way so that your kindness and your generosity and your patience is not enabling him to stay stuck where he is.

I believe in this deeply for a number of reasons. Number one, I do think when somebody's really struggling, They need your compassion. They need your support. They need all of that. But if you start to share how it makes you feel to watch them struggle, and you start to offer up things that they could do, and he is actively not doing those things, then what's happening is you're now, after two years, standing by watching somebody slowly self-destruct. And so this This is a really common thing that we all face. I can think of somebody that I care deeply about who's really frustrated with her husband, who drinks too much and needs to lose 50 pounds. They had a really big scare where he threw his back out, and he couldn't get out of bed, and he was so big, she had to get three other guys over to get him to go from being horizontal to standing up, and it scared the shit out of her. When you get to the point where you are, where you're at the end of your rope, you care about this person, you feel guilty about being tough with them, they get defensive when you are, you have to change your strategy.

I relate to this, Brooke, deeply because I remember When Chris left the restaurant business, he was a shell of himself, complete problem with alcohol, and just devastated because he had not provided, he felt he had failed in his career. I looked at him and I was like, number one, you got to get sober, and number two, you got to talk to a therapist. Those are non-negotiable. I'm sorry.

I don't want to cut you off at all, but I really feel like he needs to see a therapist for several different reasons, clearly. And I don't see him being too receptive of that, too. There was a time where he talked a little bit about it, but he's very close-minded right now. And I'm sorry. I didn't need to turn that into a, I'd go in a different direction with what you were saying, but I did want to throw that in there. That's very important, too.

It is very important. And this is where your strategy can change. You ready?

Yeah, I'm ready.

You've paid all the bills For how long?

For two years, I guess, technically. I mean, even when he was working, wasn't contributing too much.

You've been paying the bill for two years. How does it make you feel to have all that responsibility on your shoulders?

In one way, it makes me feel good because I am getting it accomplished, but I feel like he's taking advantage of.

Okay. One of the things that I want you to change is you need to have a conversation with him, and you need to say, I can't do the work for you, but it is breaking my heart to watch you struggle and to, in my opinion, not see you taking the proactive steps to change this. And so I have new boundaries that I need to express for myself. And that is, if this relationship is going to work, you must go to therapy once a week for three months. Because I believe that the reason why you're not flourishing is because you have PTSD from being incarcerated, or you who are struggling with depression. And if I don't see you take the proactive steps of going to counseling for the next three months, once a week, then this is not going to work, and you're going to have to move out. I will pay for it, but you have to be willing to meet me halfway because I can't stand by and watch somebody I love self-destructing. And I've given you two years to try to figure it out on your own. And what your behavior has communicated to me is that you're not capable of doing this on your own.

And that's okay. You need a ladder to help you climb out of this hole. So I'm going to tell you what that ladder is. I personally agree with you. I think it is therapy, but I don't want to shove that down your throat, Brooke. So what What is one behavior change that you could say to him, I can't make you do it. I am not going to force you to do it. I'm not going to guilt you into doing it. I'm just going to express a very clear boundary. We are not going to be together if you don't do this thing.

I don't really know. I guess I would like to see him seeking out at least one thing that will be the start of helping him. I'm not sure what that first step would be, whether it's to seek some professional help.

I think you do know. Tell me, what is it? See, because here's the thing. We all make the mistake of being like, I want you to start working toward it. That's not specific. You actually have to create a structured thing that he needs to check the box on because while he won't do it for himself, the relationship is important to him. So he will do it for you because you have expressed this boundary.

I don't I don't know if that's true or not.

What do you mean you don't know if it's true or not?

That's where the toxic part comes in, because honestly, I just feel like when we have conversations, because I have approached this similarly to him before, and he'll say, Well, this is what... Because we had broken up for a short time recently.

Did he leave and pack up and leave the house?

Well, it took him a while to pack up until I forced him out. But in And then I regret it.

Why did you regret it?

Because of my own toxic traits, I want him back. I don't want to be alone. And I started getting scared because he was talking to somebody else, and it just really It freaking me out. And I do feel like I love him. I don't know. And then he throws in my face because he came back and sometimes he'll be like, Well, I don't know. I need to figure myself out. I told you I need to work myself. But he's not working on That's not what that means. And when we broke up, he wasn't working on himself. He was trying to get into another relationship with somebody who's 10 years younger than him. And he was not ever going... His dad lives just shortly down the road, and that's where he was supposed to be residing. And he wasn't. He was like, out all the time, wasn't sleeping early. He was really a mess. And then showing up here unannounced and breaking my heart over again and being calloused and mean. We I feel like- I know. This is bad. No, brook.

He's not breaking your heart. You're breaking your heart. Why does that make you emotional?

I know that's true. I feel like I've abandoned myself. And I've listened to one of your podcasts about the attachment theories. I'm definitely Really the anxiety version of those. He's the avoidant. And I say sorry a million times, and I just feel like I need him to love me. And I've been just not being very nice to myself in the process of that.

When it becomes more important for somebody else to love you, then it is for you to love yourself. You're in a really toxic dynamic. And I want to commend you on something. I think deep down, you know this. And what actually scares you is you're starting to tap back into your self-worth and realize that you're better than this dynamic, and you deserve better than this dynamic. And it scares you because you've never been in a relationship with yourself or with somebody else where there's been a healthy dynamic. And I would imagine, I'm willing to guess, that you are attracted to men who are not available because this is what was present in your childhood. Is that true?

I'm not sure exactly. I have looked into that, and I'm sure that it is.

Well, which one of your parents do you chase more in terms of wanting affection approval?

My mother.

And did she feel like she wasn't that available?

Yeah, she did. She was there, but it's like me as a mom right now, which I feel guilty about. She cared more about her shows. When my parents got a divorce, she really wasn't emotionally present, and she was always tougher with her words. My dad, actually, I left the relationship, but he gives me the world now. I just am still trying to get that relationship back with my mom. And I hate to say that because she'll probably watch this. And she's been really trying to express to me lately that she's sorry that that's happening again now because she's going through her own personal struggles. Right now, personally, I'm not affected by that. I do understand that. I'm an adult now, and I see things differently, and I love her dearly, and she's doing a marvelous job.

How is the dynamic with your boyfriend similar to what it was like when your mom wasn't available?

I mean, I guess I can only really talk about how I feel with how it is currently because I don't know. But with my boyfriend, I feel like I'm constantly just trying to be Great. And then he's going to turn and be like, oh, wow, you're so great. And I love you. You're so great. I see what you did, and I see how great you are to me. And I see you in general. And I love you. And I just feel like I'm constantly just trying to do that.

You are. That's why it's not enough. You're in a relationship where you're chasing somebody who is not available and who resents you for what you need and who is in so much pain and in such a hole that he can't possibly give you what you need right now. And you just keep telling yourself so many of us fall into this trap. Okay, well, if I just try harder, I just do this, or I just do the other thing, then it's going to be okay, and then he's going to be happy, and then he's going to love me, and then it's going to be good, and then he's not going to want that woman who's 10 years younger, and you probably know that he slept with her anyway while you guys were broken up, and it's technically a broken up, so it didn't really matter Even though it breaks your heart, you don't really talk about it. Is this the life that you want?

No, it's not. My life is too short. It's just too short. I see the photos of your best friend on the wall behind you.

What was her name?

Molly.

And what did she die of?

An overdose.

What would Molly tell you right now?

She always told me to get out of this relationship, and then I was, I deserve so much better. It's just so confusing, and I just don't know if- It's not confusing.

It's not confusing at all. You either deserve You're better, or you think you don't. Brooklyn, which is it?

I deserve better.

And if you were acting... I want you to close your eyes, okay? Close your eyes. And together, We're going to travel forward in your mind, two years. So two years from now, it's a beautiful spring day. This relationship is behind you. Or not. You get to choose. It is the future you. And you have spent two years, Brooke, really healing yourself, putting yourself first and taking actions every single day that show you that you believe you deserve the best, that you love yourself, and that your heart is worth protecting, that you come first. Tell me what your life looks like. You're waking up. What does life look like for the future, Brooke, two years from now?

I have no idea, Mel. Oh, my gosh. I don't even know. I can't even picture that.

Yes, you do. Come on. Let's picture it together. Imagine that I'm there with you.

I feel like I would feel a lot lighter, first of all. I would wake up a lot earlier and not feel like I have something to look forward to. I would probably be a lot more successful in my career, and I don't know.

Yes, you do.

I would just be happy and proud of myself, I feel.

What do you see yourself doing that you're not doing now that What makes you proud?

I would be more present with my son. And I would probably be more present with my friends that I have now that I don't really engage in as much. Sometimes I would show up more for myself.

What does that look like? Give me an example of how you're not showing up for yourself right now.

I wouldn't have days where I just feel lazy and lay in bed all day, binge watch television shows to escape my life. I don't know. I feel that's one thing I would definitely be doing. Not doing. I don't know.

Yes, you do. Stop saying you don't know. You just painted a very clear picture. Can I tell you what you just reflected back?

Yes.

You get up earlier. You would be more present with your son. You would not lay in bed all day and waste the day binge watching TV. You would be more successful. You would be proud of yourself, and you would probably wake up and have a day full of things that you were doing, whether it was volunteering or going to do something with your son or spending time with those friends that you don't spend time with right now because you spend all your time trying to fix this guy that doesn't want to be fixed. Fixing him will not fix you. You are perfect and lovable exactly how you are, and you deserve to have somebody in your life that sees that and that wants to grow with you. And I can't do this for you. I can tell you that if you break up with him, he will find somebody else because he needs it. And only you can decide, Brooke, whether or not you deserve to put yourself first. And I guarantee Molly is sitting there going, Girl, break up with him. And what you don't know, because you've never experienced this, is, Will I be able to put myself first?

Will I be okay if I'm alone? And here's my answer to that. You're alone right now. Just because you have a man living in your house who you're paying Therefore, it doesn't mean you're in a relationship. You are lonely. You do not see your friends. You have isolated yourself, and you have put all of your worth into this guy somehow transforming and giving you something he doesn't have to give right now. And I can tell you that with certainty, because his actions demonstrate that.

I agree. I agree 100 %.

So what do you see as the next right step?

I would probably want to approach it again with him just to see. I get so confused because he does do some kind, loving things. I want to approach this again with him, maybe.

What does that mean?

I think I want to tell him, I want to set that boundary and make it real.

Let's role play. I'm going to be him. What's his name?

Adam.

Okay. All right, you're ready? Yes. All right, so how did that thing go with Mel? Did she tell you to break up with me?

Yes, she did. No, I'm just kidding.

I knew it. I knew that bitch was going to do that.

I don't know. I don't know how to do this, Mel. I'm so sorry. You're probably not going to want to air this. This is terrible.

This is not about whether it's good or bad. You and I are practicing.

Okay. I just feel so incapable of everything. You feel what?

Well, do you know how you change that? You try. You have to stop letting the feeling dictate what you do. You have to visualize a happier, more confident,brook, and let her guide you right now. And it's okay to write it down and read it to him?

That's probably what I would have to do.

Well, let's rehearse this. I'm Adam. Let's go. What is the boundary?

I love you, first and foremost. I just feel that I can't sit here anymore and watch you not be your greatest self. I know that you You are capable and have done some very amazing things, and I feel you're not showing up right now as that version of your sofa yourself or for me. And I want to be in this relationship. It means very much to me, but I am struggling with you not being a part of this with me together. I feel we are on a team right now because of whatever it is that you are going through that's allowing for you to be this. See, I see a lot of words. I see a lot of words. Is this going okay?

I think you're doing fantastic. Just keep talking from your heart. Tell me. Well, I get that. What do I need to do? What do you mean? What's happening?

I would really like for you to find a job and start-I Have you been looking for a job? Where have you been looking for a job at?

I'm applying online.

Oh, okay. Well, have you had anybody- No. Reach out to you? No. What can you do about that then? What is it that you can do to put yourself in a position where that's... I don't know what to say. I feel like it's something like that. Oh, my gosh.

I'll tell you why it went off the rails.

Okay.

Because looking for a job is not something specific.

Okay.

And he's been doing it for two years, and it has not worked.

Right. Or he does DoorDash, but he doesn't DoorDash. You can pick and choose your schedule, in that job.

Why would you not tell him that he needs to go to therapy for three months once a week? Because that's what you actually want, and that's what you think would make a difference.

Yeah, I was going to say that first. I really was. I'm scared to say that because I feel like it's not my- Well, let us practice.

Bullshit. It is your... Hold on a second, brook. You're paying the fucking bills. He is living with you. You have let this slide for two fucking years, and I'm going to tell you something else. Maybe he needs you to be stronger than he is. Maybe he needs you to say, I see something better for you, and I'm not going to fucking sit here and watch you flush your life down the toilet. And you clearly have bigger issues than I can help you with. So you either get your fucking ass in therapy, and I will pay for it, and you're going to go every week for three fucking months because you're worth it, and you need somebody to help you sort out that shit in your head that you're telling yourself that's keeping you down and keeping you isolated from me and keeping you acting like this. There is a better man inside. And by God, I'm not going to let my fucking son be influenced by somebody who will not pick himself up and do the work. If you can make it through jail for eight years, you can go to a therapist's office once a goddamn week while I pay for it.

And you want to know something else? I don't trust you. So I am going to drive you there. And if you're unwilling to do that. You don't deserve to be here with my son, and I am not going to stand here and watch you continue to spiral. I care so much about you that I am willing to say goodbye lie to you. But what I am not willing to do is sit here and watch you self-destruct. How does that feel?

Really great. I want to be you. That was wonderful.

Well, you have to get angry. You perked up when I said your son. So what was it about the example that he is is giving to your son that actually lit a fire under your ass, brook?

He's being influenced. That's the male role. He doesn't have a biological father. He is being around us all the time. He lives with me, and he is my world. His name's Oakley, too, by the way.

I wanted to- Oh, how old is Oakley?

Eight.

This is pivotal years right now.

I know. There's the shooting. Oakley is watching.

Well, then fucking do something I have to.

I really have to. I don't know why I'm allowing myself to do this.

I'll tell you why, honey. And this is where self-compassion comes in. None of what you're doing is a choice. You are stuck in old patterns based on your childhood. You're scared to death of people leaving you. And your feelings and your fears are making you so hesitant. And the other reason why this is not a choice is you deeply believe you're not worthy of love. And so you don't know how to act as though you deserve it. And so if you want to, quote, be me, use me as an avatar. And when you start to get those feelings coming up in your body, like, I can't do this. Just be like, what the fuck would Mel see? Because I'm not right or wrong. And this is your life, brook. So you got got to decide what's right for you. But I will tell you, if you stay in that feeling emotional space of, I can't do this. I don't know what to say. You're just going to continue to have the same thing. But if you want something different, you got to show up and act in a different way. And since you don't know how to do this for yourself, that's okay.

That's okay. Your why becomes bigger than you. It's about your son. It's about being that fucking mama bear. And it's about saying both, I love my son so much, and I love you, by the way, that I'm breaking the fucking chain in this dynamic right now. And since you can't do it, I'm going to tell you what's required. Does your son deserve a man in his life that will go to therapy for three fucking months to get Absolutely. Yes.

Well, I mean, not that the person who really probably deserves someone who doesn't have to go to therapy.

No, no, no. Personally, I think we should all be in therapy. There is nothing. If you can afford it, That's the best fucking thing in the planet. You got somebody that is completely objective listening to you go on and on, and then they give you strategies. In fact, if we all talk to a therapist every week, we wouldn't have the problems we have because we'd be sorting them and working on it and taking steps proactively to make ourselves happier or more fulfilled. Everybody deserves this. I wish it were universal that we all had access to this. So it's not that he needs it. It's also that he'll benefit from it, and your son will benefit from the example, and you will benefit for sticking up for yourself. You have to remove the love piece from this. I'm serious. You're getting so caught up in the emotion of, Does somebody love me? Am I worthy? Bullshit. If this were your son, would you want him to go to therapy? Of course.

I have put him in therapy, too.

So you get to say,brook, because you pay the bills. You get to say, Brooke, because you pay the bills, you get to say, What happens next. I love you. I'm not going to stand for this. I love my son too much to continue for this broken dynamic. And you must see a therapist once a fucking week because it's the only thing I can measure. And if you're not willing to do that, this is never going to work, and you might as well move out. You've asked him for two fucking years to get a job. Do not ask him that. That's not working. What are your takeaways from this?

Well, first, I feel like you've painted a picture that I do feel in my soul very clearly for me to digest. And I do feel very much more confident in going in the direction of... I really like that we are going in the direction of the therapy as the ultimatum because I believe that's the most appropriate approach. I'm going to do that. I feel confident in doing that. I feel confident in that for many reasons.

Can I say something that I think will make you feel better? Instead of the word ultimatum, you're giving him a choice. He makes the choice. You're telling him he has two choices. Choice one is, accept the gift and the request that you get support once a week for the next three months, which I will pay for. And you could even add, and we debrief, and you share with me what you're unpacking so I can be a part of it and support you in it. And that's choice one. And choice two is this doesn't work because it hasn't for a long time. And so you are empowering him to choose. That's what a boundary is. It's your line. I remember when Chris was really struggling, and I finally said to him, The doctor has recommended that you take medication for depression. And even though Chris leads men's retreats, and he's a hospice volunteer, and is in all this counseling, and psychology, and coaching, and never, ever had any issue with me taking medication, the second he was told he probably should do it, all of a sudden, he thinks it means he's weak. And I did give him a choice.

I'm like, This is not going to work if you don't try that medication for a year. And he got to make the choice. Same situation. I'm not going to sit here and watch you self-destruct. And we have tried everything else. And it's clear that you need a ladder out of the hole that you're in.

Was he able to make his choice right away? Or did you have to ponder about it?

It took a week. It's a week, and you can give him a deadline, but you're going to have to hold him to it. How do you feel in the framing of it as you are presenting option A or option B?

I think I feel good about that. I feel like it'll tell me my answer.

Yeah. If you ever want to know what somebody is actually committed to, close your ears and don't listen to a damn thing they say. Watch what they do.

That scares me a little bit, but I feel like it's time to put my big girl pants on and deal with whatever he chooses is because he does have the right. And I'm giving him the option to choose. And what he chooses is going to tell me what I can invest in for any much more time because my time is valuable.

That's right,brook. And here's the I have a tour for you. You ready? You're having this conversation not as Brooklyn, but as Oakley's mother, and it's time you put Oakley first. He deserves more. He needs his mother. And this is a win for him either way, because he either sees his mother stand up and have the strength to support a man in getting into therapy and healing and holding him to it, or he sees a mom who cares so much about him that she does not tolerate bullshit like this. And so if you go in as Mama Bear Brook, and you're doing this for Oakley, because these are the pivotal years right now, 8:00 to 14. Right now, right now is what Oakley is going to learn about relationships and about self-respect and about boundaries and about what's okay and what's not okay. And it's a win-win either way, because he either sees you change a relationship and stick up for yourself, and it feels the love and the safety from you, or he sees the same thing.

Right.

I love you.

I love you, too, Mel.

I believe in you.

Thank you.

And I want to also come back to this point that sometimes in life, the people that we think we're helping actually need to push. Because just like you're trapped in your own past patterns of feeling and emotion, he is, too. That doesn't mean you let him off. It actually means that you see higher potential. So you're going to raise the fucking bar for both of you. You're doing this for you and Oakley, and you're doing it for him. And he'll make his choice as to whether or not he can raise the bar, too. And he very well might not. And that's okay.

Right. I'll be okay.

You're going to be more than okay, honey. You're going to be fucking fantastic because you're Oakley's mom, and you will fight for that kid. And in fighting for him and setting the example, you will also be fighting for yourself. What are you thinking?

I just feel good. I'm so grateful. I do. I feel, like I I feel so good. I feel like I could take over the world right after this.

Well, look, the fear is going to be there, and you're going to have the conversation anyway. And the feelings are going to be there, Brooke, and you're going to feel overwhelmed, and you're going to talk through them. And I would highly recommend that you put down some bullets on a piece of paper. What are the important bullets to you?

Therapy.

Therapy, right. And why are you having this conversation?

That being a bullet.

Yeah. What's your why? Why are you having this conversation? This is a really important bullet.

Are you asking me? I'm sorry.

Okay.

Because the way it's impacting Oakley and myself and him, too, as a person, but Oakley foremost. Because you don't have to be here if you don't want to be. I mean, if you want to find your process somewhere else, you have an option to do that. It's time to get this process started. You know what I mean? He needs to start this healing process, and I will respect that. And I understand that, and I'll support it, but I want to see it actually starting and actually being a real thing, not Sorry, I didn't do well with the bullet part thing.brooke.

Stop making yourself wrong. You did amazing because here's the thing. The second that you're willing to let him walk out the door, you You have opened up the door to a whole new you. Stop trying to... You need to stop trying to keep him. You got to be willing to let someone leave. You do. Because the second that you're willing to let him walk out that door, he is now free to choose choose whether or not he's going to stay and show up. And so you said it beautifully. There are three reasons why you're having this conversation. Number one, you're Oakley's mom. Do you want to write that down? Yes. Okay, write it down. Number one, I'm Oakley's mom. And this toxic dynamic between us, I'm not going to have it around him anymore. He deserves a man in his life who is working to get better. The second why,brook, is you can say to him, I love you. And I'm not going to stand by and watch you spiral. And I love what you said. Your healing journey starts today, and you're either going to do it with my support, which means you're going to go to therapy once a week for three months, and you're going to share with me what's going on so I can be supportive of it, or you're going to start your healing process elsewhere with somebody else.

And the third reason why I'm having this is I got to do this for me. I deserve someone who is growing with me. And who can accept my support and who is taking responsibility for their own stuff. And the only way I'm going to know that these three things are handled is if I see you going to therapy once a week with a professional to get the support you deserve. That's it.

That was great.

You're great. And here's the other thing I want you to understand, brook. Expect to feel uncomfortable. Expect to cry. You're feeling excited now. I promise you, the second he walks back in, he's like, You're going to be like, Oh. Expect it, because then you won't be as freaked out when the emotions flood. Okay?

You think I should do this right now?

Fuck, yes.

Okay. Oh, boy.

Because otherwise, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Right.

You're speaking from your heart right now.

Yeah.

And you can say, if he doesn't immediately be like, I'm in, That's your answer. If he's like, I got to think about it, be like, great. We're going to have breakfast tomorrow morning, and you're going to tell me whether you're going to start your healing somewhere else with somebody else, or if you're going to accept this gift I'm giving you and this request I'm making. That's it. I've got to raise the game here. We're going to play a bigger game. Do you have any questions, any other questions, or concerns, or anything else that's rattling around other than, Shit, should I have the conversation now?

No, I don't think so. Other than, I mean, if you want to, I'll pay you. We can meet weekly, and we can... I'm just kidding. Oh, my.

Well, I will meet weekly. I'm here every Monday and every Thursday for you. And it always feels so good. Well, what's happening is, see, I think everybody on the planet wants one thing. You want to live a life where you feel like your best and your truest self is what is the... Every one of us, including Adam, and Oakley, and you, and me. We all just want to live our lives feeling like we can express our Our best, truest selves. That's it. That's it. So does Adam, by the way.

We don't want to give up the stuff that feels good that we're doing that are self-destructive. That's the bitch.

Yeah, that's the bitch. But here's the thing. You're also doing this because you know it doesn't feel good for Adam to live like this. True. Right. You're not trying to fix him. You are holding up a light and saying, there is a bigger possibility here, and your actions have demonstrated that you're not going to do that on your own. So here is the path. Therapy, three months, once a week, or you're going to Start your healing somewhere else. That's it. Okay? You're going to do great. Remember, Molly and I and everybody listening are your Guardian Angels holding up the light. You can do this. I promise you. You can do this, and I want to know how it goes, okay?

Thank you so much.

I love you. I'm really proud of you. And Oakley is a really lucky little guy to have such an awesome mom. How to weigh the proper compromises in a relationship. So we have this great question from Carmen who wrote in, Can you talk about the difficulty of compromise in partnerships without giving up yourself? I've had a long-time partner for 14 years. We've been together since we were I've been working in Europe for the last two years, and the long distance relationship worked really well. They supported me. We saw each other regularly. I never felt happier during my time abroad. I felt like I had found myself over there. I didn't want to go back, but ultimately decided to go back because I felt like my partner wasn't doing well without me, and they didn't want to move to Europe. Now I'm in a situation where I'm trying to find a compromise, looking for remote jobs, to be able to work from anywhere, and figuring out a way where we can both be happy. Any advice on how much compromise is good, bad, without forgetting who you are as an individual?

So there you have a compatibility issue in the way that two people want to live their lives. Even if you share many of the same values, even if you have an incredible time when you're together, if you have a different vision for your future or a completely different vision for the present, then that's still a compatibility issue. I think How do we have to get out of this idea that someone can be the right person even when the way they want to live their life or the way they see their future is completely different to the way we want to live ours or see our future. That doesn't make them right person, wrong time, right person, wrong circumstances. I think the right person has to be both right and ready. I think the right person has to be someone whose values we love and also wants the same life as us. I I don't believe in this idea that you have the right person who just, if it were only a parallel universe where they loved Europe and wanted to be there and live there and weren't close to their family back home, then it would be perfect.

That's science fiction. I think we have to look at the reality of what we have instead of what we would like to be, because anything else is science fiction. When I hear this question, I go, It's tough because it sounds like there's a lot that's right with the relationship. But right now, your dreams are taking you to Europe and a job that you really enjoy. And this person doesn't want to come to Europe. Now, firstly, that deserves ultimate compassion for the person who doesn't want to come to Europe. Of course. It's not their dream. It's not their life. They didn't choose that. They didn't choose choose to have a partner who decided to move miles and miles away from home. That requires a level of compassion and humility to say, I think this about entrepreneurs all the time. Whenever entrepreneurs complain that their partner doesn't get it, I'm working all hours of the day and I just have this dream and my partner doesn't get it. I'm like, Yeah, no shit. They didn't sign up for this. They didn't choose this. It's not their dream. There's something selfish about that dream. Own it. It's okay.

I've been there. I'm an entrepreneur. I get it. But don't turn it into something noble that your partner doesn't get. It's not their dream. If they suddenly had a dream that meant they were never around and they were stressed all the time and they didn't bring you good energy in the evenings and even on weekends, they were not present. What would you be saying? We lack humility in those situations. I think this comes back down to another hard conversation is, look, I've got a person I really value. How much do I value this person? Do I value them enough to try and find a job that I'm passionate about back where we're from? Or when I'm honest with myself, if I'm really, really honest with myself, maybe it brings up a tremendous amount of guilt for me. Maybe it makes me feel selfish. Maybe it makes me feel shame. But maybe, if I'm honest, if I don't get this out of my system, I'm never going to be ready for that. I might have to end up being ready for it with another person, but at least I will have done this thing and pursued this thing that's really important to me right Now, and that's life is about choices.

It just is. We wish it wasn't, but it just is.

That's interesting because the question is about compromise, and yet you're bringing it back to the personal responsibility to make a choice that you're not going to resent somebody else for. Because I think that's the other thing we don't talk about, which is it's noble to compromise, but not if you are going to die on the sword and be silently resentful of somebody that you're with because, they made you do something, that they held you back. When you didn't have the courage to seek the clarity about what you valued more, and the timing of your life.

It might be, by the way, he says, Hey, you two more years, I could do this, or he might say, One more year, I can do this, but I can't do it after that. And she needs to be really honest with herself about whether a year is going to be enough. There might be the compromise. Or the compromise is, You know what? I'm going to come home and I'm going to find something that I can do that I enjoy back home, but I'm going to lean in. If I do that, then I'm really going to lean into that and make... You've always got to be prepared in life to make the Plan B, the new Plan A. Turn Plan B into the new Plan A. What you can't do is continue to see it as plan B because that's where the resentment comes from.

What about some of the smaller things that trip relationships up? It's things like your partner plays video games all the time, and it drives you crazy. Your partner just wants to watch golf or whatever on the weekend. You are a morning person, and you love to get up and get to the gym. And this is a person who's night owl and sleeps in until 11. And how do you know? You know what I mean? When it's compatibility versus-Is it that you want them to be like you, or is it that your needs aren't getting met? How do you know?

Well, ask yourself, them playing video games, is it costing me something crucial that I feel I'm not getting in the relationship as a result? Or am I just mad that they're not like me?

That's good.

Because if it's costing you something crucial, like one of your needs, then you absolutely better have the conversation. And the conversation is something akin to, I respect and I love that you have something that you love doing with your time, but you're doing it so much that I'm not getting what I need in the relationship. And I want to support you in this thing that you really enjoy doing. But I also want to feel supported, and I want to feel like this relationship gives me what I need the same way I want to show up for you and give you what you need. So by the way, after this conversation, let's talk about what you need. But right now, the thing that I need the most is quality time. And I'm not getting that because of X, Y, Z. You can say that. But is it about you not getting your needs met? Or is it about the fact that you don't like that they're not like you? Which is a more interesting question because it gets into the territory of, do we need our partner to be like us in certain ways? Where Where is that coming from?

And I think we can talk about that. But I think that's interesting territory.

I definitely want to talk about that, too. But I can give a couple of examples, and I think your distinction is very helpful because it made me realize why these two examples matter. So the first one is that Chris and I have been together for a long time, but he recently went away on a ski trip with our son, and I didn't go. It wasn't supposed to be a boys trip, but I literally was like, You know what? I don't want to go skiing for a week. I don't really like skiing. I think I'd rather be home alone and do a staycation without anybody home. Thank you very much. And the reason why that was actually super cool is because Chris's needs and my needs are getting met in other ways. So I didn't need to take a trip with him to get the connection that you often will get when you take time and go away together. And so it didn't feel like it was taking anything away. In fact, it was additive. Versus, and here's the example where I did change. I have very bad ADHD, and I have this habit when cardboard boxes come, of stacking them up by the door because we live in the state where you got to flatten them, and I hate flattening them.

I get all kinds of paper cuts, and I just... I don't know why I don't like to do it, but I don't like to do it. Chris hates that I stack these things up. He would yell at me all the time, Can't you just stack them Can't you? And then I, of course, when he would yell at me about doing that, well, not really yell, but just like, for crying out loud, can't you just do it? I would then defend myself. I'm so busy, I'm traveling. Can't you just do this? I mean, for crying out, what else do I have to do? We'd get into this standoff. And it wasn't until he sat me down and had the conversation, Listen, I get that you have ADHD. I get that you're tired. I get that you work long hours. I get that you do a ton of things. But let me tell you something. Every time I see that stack like a little pyramid for me waiting like a gift from you, it makes me feel like you think I'm your maid. What I realized at a very profound level Is that when he explained how my behavior made him feel, it made me realize that his need to be seen and taken care of in acts of service were not being met over and over and over again, Even though he asked.

And that's what motivated me to change my behavior. I'm the best cardboard box flattener on the planet, Matt. But that's a really important thing, because I think in these small moments, where we're either forcing someone to be like us, which I don't think you should be doing, or you have an opportunity to express that there's a deeper need behind why you want somebody to actually load the dishwasher or move the stuff from the washer to the dryer. That if you can express the deeper need, now you're strengthening the connection versus fighting with somebody over something.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And you're giving someone in a relationship a real gift and an opportunity to give you something that may not be rational. And by the way, that's okay. How many things do we need in life that are not rational? It's true. It's a beautiful thing sometimes to just understand that this is important to my partner, and it's worth showing up for them in this way, even if it doesn't make sense to me. But that only works in two people who are a genuine team, where it feels like that generosity of spirit goes both ways.

Do you have a strategy for how you know if something's a deal breaker? Because I do think a lot of people don't truly understand What is a deal breaker and what's just something you need to be more flexible about. So in the case of the partner who's let themselves go, or the partner who is struggling with drinking, or the partner who has The anger issues, or the partner who... You know what I'm saying?

To your point, we could take them one by one, but let's say the partner who's let themselves go. I think that the default with someone you love is always compassion, not not judgment because that must be hard for them. If someone's let themselves go, I know when I've let myself go in life, it didn't feel good to me. My My mind was in a certain state when I was letting myself go.

Matthew, what is your message to someone who is really struggling with valuing themselves inside a relationship?

We have to love ourselves enough that we would not put anyone in our presence. No one would be the continued recipient of our investment, our energy, our attention, our love, our intimacy, if what we fundamentally want in life is something they cannot give That's the essence of self-love. So how does it translate to the relationship with ourselves? Well, there's eight billion people on this Earth. Now, all you need to start treating yourself a little better is to realize that if you keep saying you love people or you care about people, that you are a person in the room. It's as simple as that. That's a starting point. But it's actually more important than that. Of the eight billion people on this Earth, You are the only one charged with the responsibility of taking care of this one human. You were born and someone said, You have one job. Take care of this human. That's it. And your only job in this world is to take care of, nurture, stand up for, help this person find happiness. Be there for this human. That's it. When you look at it like that, comparison makes no sense anymore.

Because you go, I can't exchange this human. I only get one. And my job isn't to judge this human. I only get one, so judgment is irrelevant. My job is just to give the best possible life to this human. That turned self-love into something I knew exactly how to do because I realized, Oh, I don't need to like myself in order to love myself. Liking myself can come later. Loving myself isn't a feeling. It's an approach. It's a job. It's a verb. Once we understand that, we go, Why would I let someone who doesn't respect this human anywhere near them? Why would I let someone who is making this human feel unsafe or confused about their worth or keeps them in limbo or picks them up and puts them down is completely inconsistent with them? Why would I let anyone like that near this human? The way you stick to these standards is you connect with the fact that even when it's difficult, it's your job to take care of this human. This isn't like a one-time epiphany. It's something that I go through once a month, once a week, sometimes. If I feel disconnected from myself and why I should be loving myself, you want this structure laid out in a way you can go through anytime you want, which is why I put the entire thing inside my book in a section called Core Confidence.

A lot of us If we're crazy critical of the way our parents raised us. Perhaps we should be more critical of how we're raising ourselves. So let's talk about the grieving process for those of us that choose to stay in a family system. Or in a relationship with somebody who we are very clear has a narcissistic personality style. We have accepted it. We have given up hope. But how do we grieve? How do we protect ourselves? What are the tools that we need to be able to remain healthy and separate in a situation where we've accepted the reality?

But I would guess about 50% of people in narcissistic intimate relationships stay in them. Let's talk about the staying, first of all, is more common than the leaving. So keep that in mind. But then so number one, people don't think this is grief because you're in it. It is grief, so treat it as such. Because what's been taken from you, you've lost hope, you've lost the idea that there would be a someday better. You recognize that your childhood was a mess. You recognize the lost potential within yourself. I think to me, the real tragedy that I see with many clients who go through this is they say, had this been different, had I had a parent who saw me clearly, who actually stepped out of their selfish haze long enough to see me? I would not be 45 and figuring stuff out in life for the first freaking time. That at 45, they feel behind all their peers. Or like, I wouldn't have been in three wrecked marriages. It's not that they're saying they were... People were taking responsibility. I made the mess. I recognize that. But my God, if I'd been given the right tools.

It's like somebody who said, Oh, I tried to build a house and all I had was a glue gun and a stapler. I'm like, Yeah, no, there's this thing called a drill and all this other stuff. You recognize that, Holy crap, there are all these tools that some people have, and I still try to make a horse race of it. There's a sadness. So I think that people are grieving the loss of themselves, really. If you know David Kessler's work, loss has to be gone through. There's no rushing this. What I love about David's work is he talks about the meaning and purpose we derive, meaning more than anything, from the process of grief. And the same applies in narcissistic relationships. Because I say this to every survivor of narcissistic relationships, My God, you are tougher than hell. So basically everyone else was running a marathon just on the flat ground, and they sent you on the wrong path, and they put this weird 400-pound backpack on you and said, Oh, the marathon goes uphill, and you still finish the marathon. No, you didn't win or get a medal, but my God, you finished. And that there's a toughness, a flexibility, a resilience, a discernment, a cleverness, a knowing that survivors of narcissistic abuse have unlike any clinical population I have ever worked with in my career.

They're fantastic. I say this as a survivor myself, and I have so much grief, Mel, over how late in the game and still struggle You've said some nice things to me today, and more often than not, I've put myself down. And I made a joke about it, but I don't know that I'll ever get to a place where I'll ever fully value myself. Part of my journey of grief is recognizing that I'm never going to get there. And instead, I say every day I'm going to wake up and I'm going to fight the good fight, and I feel privileged to get to do what I do. But there are holes in me. And some days I grieve those holes, and some days I embrace those holes. I could not do what I do unless I had gone through this. That, to me, feels like a gift from God, that I was given this gift. I was given a voice that every generation of women before me and my family never got. Narcissism is endemic, and patriarchal cultures. I think to myself, you could have either sat there and felt bad for yourself or say, You've been given an opportunity, but my God, my heart...

I didn't know the number of ways a heart could be broken, but you have no idea. There is ways hearts can be broken that are diabolical, and I had experienced a lot of them. Didn't know how to get into an adult relationship. I still show up into a lot of these narcissistic relationships. I am tired, and that's what a lot of survivors say. But what comes out of this grief is that some days are very hard, many days are great. There are lots of dark nights of the soul, but I finish the marathon, even though someone threw that backpack on my back and sent me on the uphill track.

How do you handle when a child or somebody that you love is in a relationship or a friendship with somebody that is destructive? I'm not talking physical abuse. I'm talking mean friends, toxic behavior, somebody that you see the person that you love shrinking. How do you handle that? You do the both and. You say, You know what? I see this. My stomach can't take it. I know you may grow into the most beautiful I'm a butterfly from this, but I don't have the stamina, I don't have the guts, I can't do this. Please help me. Forgive me. I need to move away from this relationship right now. I love you. I'm here for you. But when you are with this person, I cannot engage because I'll be lying to you. I'll be lying, pretending that I'm here for you. Now, that's in the most toxic of environments. In other situations, and we've all had this with our girlfriends, we don't just jump ship because we see them in trouble. We let them know. We do the both-hand. I'm letting you know, but I'll stick around as long as I can. But if I feel like it's getting to a point where it's red flag, Then I need to disconnect so that you miss me enough that you will sit with yourself to go within to ask, Why did she leave me?

I want to make you uncomfortable so that you can do the inner work. I don't want to go, but I see this is so harmful to you, and you don't see it. So I'm going to extricate myself with love, but I'm always here. I'm just not going to be around this dynamic. It's really hard to do with finesse, but you have to make it very clear to your friend or your child, I love you. I am not abandoning you. I'm abandoning my inability. I cannot handle this. So again, I create the boundary. I love this. I love this. It's very empowering. Not easy. Not easy. But very empowering. And you can see how this can work, because if you stay in the dynamic and you lie, it props the dynamic up. Yeah, you enable it. If you leave the dynamic and you make it clear that I love you, this is what I see, and I'm worried about you. I can't be a part of this dynamic, so I'm going to remove myself. You know they're you're going to sit with it. Yes. Because your decision, which is coming from your truth and you feeling empowered and you being present to love and connection, shifts everything about the dynamic.

Yes. Sometimes when I have a client who's in a relationship that's toxic or the client is engaging in self-harming behaviors, I have to most lovingly disconnect and say, I'm doing this because I love you. If I treat with you, it would be inauthentic because I cannot treat you when you are under the delusion of a drug or in this toxic environment. I cannot release you to go home and you get battered every day. Although it looks like I'm being cruel, I'm actually letting you know what a red flag this is that you need to wake up. I don't think it's cruel at all. I actually think this is the greatest act of love, to be honest with somebody about where you stand with them and what you're concerned about without controlling it. Yes, actually- Because only you can control your participation in this. Yeah. And you're actually telling them that, I know you have the potential to awaken. I am leaving you to your own awakening because I trust it. If I stay and lie, I'm not awakened, I am inauthentic, and I keep you in the mess of it, in the toxicity of it.

I always tell couples when they're scared to leave a relationship, don't stay if you're inauthentic because you're actually stopping impeding the other person's capacity to be free and authentic themselves. The greatest act of love is to follow your own authenticity because then you free others to discover theirs. So true. What are the big mistakes that you see people who want to reconcile with somebody who's cut them off? What are the big mistakes that people make or that you made?

Yeah. I have a whole webinar on this called the Five Most Common Mistakes of estranged parents, and I'm sure I made all of them. The first one is thinking that it should be fair. As soon as you think it should be fair, then you're going to, first of all, you're going to feel more victimized by your child, which is not a good place to be, both as a person, but also in terms of how you communicate. It's going to make you feel more angry and resentful, and that's going to come out. The idea that it should be fair is the idea of, Well, I was a much better parent than my own was. Think of all the sacrifices I made. I was there for this kid in so many ways. But from the parents' perspective, it isn't fair. It's much more about, practically, what works and what doesn't work. And that relates to the second common mistake, and that is using guilt, thinking that you're going to motivate your child through guilt. I'm currently writing an article called The Last Jewish Mother because I'm Jewish, and it's a trope in the culture about the Jewish mothers can guilt trip their kids into contact.

The joke, like how do you get a Jewish mother to change the light bulb? Don't worry, I'll just sit here in the dark. It's an affectionate trope that the mothers could use guilt to motivate their children. But I call it the last Jewish mother because parents can no longer do that. Guilt is now considered a toxic, coercive, corrupt of a force. It's antithetical to the idea that the adult child doesn't owe the parent anything and shouldn't feel guilt. So using guilt is not going to work, including statements like how miserable the adult child is making the parent feel through the estrangement. Third common mistake, and I see therapists enabling this mistake, is returning fire with fire. The adult child says something angry or assertive or critical, the parent fires right back at them and tells them they're ungrateful and challenges them and says, You can't talk to me that way. You need to respect me. It may be true that They want respect, but returning fire with fire never works. The fourth is assuming that it's all about the parent, which goes to what you and I were talking about before, about there may be not as much contact because the adult child is more preoccupied with their own life, their own children, their own career, their own social lives.

What I tell parents is, Look, when we have adult children and grandchildren, they're front and center of our minds, our heart, our consciousness. But for our adult children, that's not the same. We're not at the front of their hearts and minds and consciousness. I know that was true with my own parents as well when they were alive. And like you, I was very close to them, to my parents. I just knew that when I called my parents or visited them, that I liked both, but I knew it meant much more to them than it did to me. So if my adult children call me or visit me, I know it means more to me than it does to them. So the mistake is not knowing, assuming that every bit of distance or non-responsiveness or not returning that text right away or that email or whatever is personal, because once you make it personal, then you are on the pathway to a stranger. The final mistake is not knowing, is failing You have to recognize how long a stranger takes to reconcile. But it's a marathon, it's not a sprint. And then even if you're taking the best next steps, that it still may be a matter of months or even years before you can get your child to respond.

Those are the most common mistakes that I see. Well, let me add one more. And that is one of the key parts of my strategy with parents is helping them write an amends letter where they take responsibility, where they're not defensive, they don't complain. They find the kernel, if not the Bushler, truth in their children's complaints. And a common mistake I see with letters is that they say, Well, if I did anything wrong, or, I'm sorry, you feel that way, or those things which aren't really taking responsibility and not really facing the hard cold truth about the mistakes that they made, because as parents, we all make them. But it's a hard thing to do. I didn't love doing it myself when I did it, but it is the most effective a way to potentially bridge a distance between a parent and an adult child.

What I would love to do is go mistake by mistake and unpack it a little bit more so that we can understand how that mistake that we make when we're trying to make amends or trying to make contact with somebody who has cut us off, how it backfires and what it feels like for the person that has cut you off, because I think that would be helpful. The first one was to think that things should be fair.

Right.

So why is that a mistake? And how does, if you think things should be fair, what do parents do that backfires?

One of the things that I teach parents, particularly who've been in a longer term estrangement, is the principle of radical acceptance. And part of radical acceptance is that saying that it is what it is. I can take all the best steps, but I may not be able to do any better. And we think that things should be fair, we're really injecting a certain amount of resentment and bitterness and unhappiness into the equation. So it just isn't very helpful to one's mental health, regardless of reconciliation, to say, Well, this isn't fair. I shouldn't be treated like this. I was such a good parent. I was a better parent than my own parents were. They're not acknowledging all the good things that I did. They're rewriting history. I mean, all those things may be true, but tormenting yourself with that feeling is just going to make you miserable, but it's also going to make you more resentful to your adult child. From your child's perspective, it's completely fair. They wouldn't be doing it unless they thought it was fair. So one of the things I tell parents to do when they write an amends letter is to start by saying, I know you wouldn't do this unless we felt like it was the healthiest thing for you to do, because that's how it feels to the adult child.

And the parent has to get on the same page as the adult child. If this parent comes across as being defensive or blaming or not willing to take responsibility, game over. The adult I was going to go, Well, screw you then.

I'm not going to have a relationship with you. This is why I did it in the first place.

Exactly. That's right.

I think resentment is the powerful word there, because in this feeling that things should be fair.

Right.

What you're not saying is, I resent the fact that I gave you fucking everything, and this is what you're doing to me? Right. Exactly. I see this even in myself. We were just yesterday After school, quickly trying to find a black suit for my son for prom this weekend. And we went to three different places. Thankfully, we found something, and I turned to him and I said, Hey, can you give me a lift home?

Right.

Before practice. And he said, Oh, Mom, it's going to make me late for practice. I caught the words before they came out of my mouth. But what I almost said to him, Dr. Coleman, was, Are you fucking kidding me? I just spent an hour and a half with you and spent hundreds of dollars on a suit to support you. You can't drive me 10 measly minutes home? And then I thought for a second, not because I was talking to you today, but I was like, How is shaming or being resentful? Or that is a example of how I think I'm trying not to be transactional. I will love you in. If I buy you shit, you need to do something for me. But it's hard. And so I can see how that opinion that I'm doing this for you, so it has to be fair on my terms. Because I could step into his shoes, which is what you basically ask your clients to do, to get from the one side of the table to putting your arm around your child and trying to see it from their point of view. I basically took him shopping because that was the window that was convenient for me.

And so from his side, he was also accommodating me, and he didn't want to be late, which I can understand based on values. So I love that because I think the resentment piece is what somebody who cuts you off, picks up on or this transactional thing. Talk about guilt for a minute. So isn't guilt similar to the it should be fair, so you should be doing that? It's part of this whole thing.

It is. Yeah. And it just doesn't work anymore. There's plenty of cultures where it still works. There's plenty of cultures where the notion of filial obligation, duty to one's parents, et cetera, is still very active, particularly in Confucius and other Asian cultures. In Latin American cultures, it's the notion of familism. There's There's the bond of the family that's considered a very important value. In those kinds of cultures, there's more of a place for a parent to come at it from a perspective of like, Look, I'm your mother or I'm your father. This is what kids should do. It's more tolerated and accepted because the adult child has embraced those values. But in the rest of American culture, North American culture, there's the idea that adult children don't owe their parents anything and that guilt is an excessive, coercive, corrupt demand. And so if the parent makes the child feel bad, then somehow they're now putting themselves in the role of being a toxic, narcissistic person who the adult child should cut off in order to preserve their own mental health.

Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, by God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.