Transcript of A bad day at the office for Forest as Newcastle bring them back to reality

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Gareth Boardy-RED, a Nottingham Forest podcast. I'm Max Sage, your host, and here we are to discuss Forest's defeat to Newcastle. 3-1. Forrest's only second defeat of the season at home on a Sunday in front of the TV cameras. Maybe a disappointing one as well. Forrest conceding three goals at home, but that comes after a... Well, Murillo getting his first Premierly A goal in the first half, which was nice to see. A great header for him and great to see him on the score sheet. But Forest lose the game 3-1. We shall discuss all of that, the performance, and talk about Anthony Alanga, many other key players as well. Not singling him out, but just a heads up. We're probably going to talk about him and many others, as some Forest fans will argue, the bubble is burst, but I certainly think that maybe it just brings us all back down to reality slightly after dreaming about Europe. But who knows? We're still up there at the top of the table rather than looking down for once, joined by Mark Turner, who watched the game in America. Mark, good to see you, mate, back on the pod.

Just me and you today for our main episode to ramble on. You've got a fancy new microphone. You're looking dapper. We're not matching for once, but that forest result, I suppose, letting you down.

Hello, mate. Yep, excited to be with you again, despite us having to talk about a forest defeat, a rare forest defeat. But you know what, Max? I think this is all part of Nuno's plan. We're trying to lull Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool and the like into a false sense of security. So I'm okay with it.

Absolutely, mate. Absolutely. Let's talk about the game from minute one, really. And before we talk football, just wanted to say, thought the minute silence was brilliantly observed by both Forest and Newcastle fans, which was the least you expect, really. And great to see, of course. I thought the last post as well played was It was amazing. So absolute credit. And obviously a nice Fawzia Garibaldi display to kickstart the afternoon off as Forest kicked off at two o'clock. Mark, what did you make of the game? I was just saying to you before we started recording. Yeah, it's disappointing, but it was always going to happen. Forest was always going to lose a game and get brought back down to reality, maybe. And I thought Newcastle deserved it. I thought they played really well, even in the first half and Forest were a goal, but I went into that halftime break thinking, I don't think Forest are going to win this game here. Newcastle I saw it dangerous. And I think midfield was where we maybe lost the game. I don't know about your overall thoughts to start us off.

Yeah, Newcastle are no mugs, obviously. They beat Arsenal last week. And if anybody watched that game, we'll appreciate they beat Arsenal well. Newcastle were the best team on the day, and they deserved all three points. And the same is true again today. I agree with you, Max. From first whistle, Forest did not look at the races. They were making a lot of really uncharacteristic errors, particularly Basically, when they weren't even under pressure. I think the two things that concerned me the most was, again, not connecting what were fairly straightforward passes when they weren't under an enormous amount of pressure. So just turning the ball over very easily. And also we didn't see the intensity that we've seen from Forest in maybe the last two or three games in particular in terms of our pressing game, where we've really gotten down the throat of against West Ham. I remember we were pressing them all over the field, not giving them a second to really catch their breath. And we didn't see that again today. And in the post-match, Nuno alluded to the fact that, well, Colin Frey... I don't know if this is a conversation that took place before they went live.

And so Colin Frey was baiting him to restate what they discussed, or if this is a conversation that came about in the week. But essentially, the suggestion was some of the players out there are looking for tea, need a bit of a rest because we've been playing more or less the same players week in, week out for a number of weeks now. And though I sympathize with that, that's why you have a squad. One of the things we've been talking about, Max, here over the last few weeks is just how good our squad looks, how we have cover all over the field. That being the case, then use those players. You can't not use those players and then complain a few weeks later that the players you're using look tired. You can't have it both ways.

Yeah, absolutely, Mike. I agree. I heard that line actually and thought, yeah, maybe a bit of a media play from Forest. Quite clever, but you can understand potentially why as well. And it's funny, actually, you do say that because I think walking to the ground, everyone checks it at a quarter to two now, the extra 15 minutes we get with the team news now. And it gets released and it's unchanged and everyone's thinking great. It's an unchanged 11. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And all of that, as we alluded to on the preview show just a few days ago now with me and Sam, and you think, oh, well, the consistency and all of that. And then maybe we think about playing with it. And then when Nuno talks about the fitness of the players, as you allude to, Mark, it's just one of those, isn't it? Were you shocked to see it on changed 11? I wasn't. And if I was managing Forest today, I wouldn't have changed anything. My only argument would maybe, would you have brought James Ward-Browse in because we got turned over in midfield? But that's in hindsight, right?

And hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I saw the last episode with Sam. So we're going with, if it ain't broke, don't fix it now, rather than, it ain't fixed, don't broke.

Why did I say that last time? It tickled me.

It tickled me.

It's been a long day, right?

Anyway, no, it's difficult, isn't it? Because I wasn't disappointed to see an unchanged lineup as well. I don't know that James Wall-Prowse would necessarily be in front of mind for any change. I think perhaps I would try to look for a way to incorporate Elliot Anderson But I don't want to sound wise after the fact, Morgan Gibbs-White had an awful game. I mean, England international, he didn't even look like a Scotland international today. Apologies to our Scottish listeners and viewers. But But you can be wise after the fact. Morgan would obviously be one of the first names on the team sheet ordinarily. I don't know how you'd bring Elliott Anderson into that starting lineup, given how well Yates and Dominguez have played over the last few weeks. Again, that being said, though, we know there's fatigue in the team. We don't know. We've been told. Evidently, there is. And so maybe it would have been a smart move to try and find a way to bring Elliott Anderson into one of those two spots. But certainly, Max, I agree with you. I think midfield, more than anywhere else on the field, is where we lost it.

We struggled to hold the ball up today, but we also struggled to get beyond Chris Wood. Wood, not woods, as the commentator on Peacock insisted on saying. Peacock is one of the channels over here, Max, that covers Premier Really so infuriating. But we struggled to get beyond Chris Wood. And also in defense, I think we did a good job of holding back the tide. I don't think it was a bad defensive effort despite conceding three goals. Midfield, though, is where we really dropped the Yeah, absolutely.

And just staying on that midfield. I was going to touch on Murillo's goal, first of all. But we've got to talk about that almost... I just felt like Forest massively lost the game in midfield. And whenever you saw either a 50-50 or turnover of play. I just almost had in the ground this sense of, Forest, we're going to lose it. And I thought Ryan Yates gave away way too many fouls today. Of course, Yates brought in as a player and he has a job, and that's to win as many fouls as he can on the football pitch, which he still would have done today. And it goes unnoticed, the hard work. But I just thought he did almost the polar opposite and gave too many away. I thought he was a little bit scrappy at times. I didn't think Dominguez had an amazing game today, which is maybe a bit harsh to say given his obviously recent performance. He's been excellent, as you alluded to, Morgan didn't have the best game. Elliot Anderson then comes on and looks quite nervy, I thought. You could tell he was a player playing against his former club. He He just didn't seem really with it.

I thought there was just some silly hospital passes at times, and I just thought that that was where Forest lost it. And even in the first half, Mark, would you agree that the midfield is normally an area where recently we've talked about how it was good the transition of players. Today, it was just the complete polar opposite.

Yeah, and obviously, depending on where we are in our play, it depends on whether or not you consider Callum Hudson-Odori and Anthony Alain going to be forwards or whether it be midfielders. But if I include them in the midfield Good conversation for the purposes of this discussion. There's blame to go around. I actually think you're being a little bit harsh on Dominguez. I think, no, he didn't have his best game for us, for sure. But I think of a bad bunch, he was the best one out there. Morgan Gibbs-White was giving the ball away far too frequently. Anthony Alanger's decision making was woeful. Callum Hudson-Medoy was completely absent. And I agree with you, Ryan. Like, great Yates. Obviously, I'm a big Yates fan, but he contributed nothing today. That was probably his worst game of the season, honestly. And that can happen, right? And you just hope that it doesn't happen for every player in the same match as it appeared to today. I don't know what was going on with the Ellie Anderson. I really thought he would have been up for it. But I wonder at that point, Max, when he and the other subs came on, if Forest were really under the cosh, everything was really fractured out there.

There was just no fluidity to the way we were playing. And I wonder if the subs were on a hiding to nothing. I mean, you want them to go on and change things, but I wonder if the well was just too poisoned at that point. Newcastle, definitely in the ascendancy. And then when Harvey Barnes came on, I got to be honest, I was really worried. I think Barnes is an excellent player.

He was shot to the steam on the bench, actually. Yeah.

I was just about to say that. I think he would start in many of the Premier League teams. And he always seems to score when he plays. It's like the lad at Fulham who's now finding his way back into the starting 11. Wilson? Yes. Yeah. Another one who you like, I guess maybe they're patchy players. They're ever in flow and maybe that's why they're in and out of the team. But yeah, Barnes always seems to score, and he was definitely an influence when he came on today in a way that our subs weren't.

Yeah, absolutely. It was Eddie Howe's third year anniversary today as well as Newcastle manager. Oh, yeah. He gets a nice anniversary present. Good manager. Yeah, I like Eddie Howe. I was shocked that he wasn't involved even in the England job discussion, but that's another topic of conversation we shall not get into. Let's talk about Marillo before we talk about more negatives and maybe single out some players that would have done better. Murillo gets his first senior goal, by the way. I don't think he's ever scored before, genuinely. And we thought it might come in a long-range effort, but it comes with a nice header in the box. And it was a bullet header. He was left on marked. He rose up and it was a great header. And nice to see him on the score sheet. I thought first off, in particular, he had a great game. I just suppose him getting a goal breeds confidence, and it's just nice for him. Nice to have him the score sheet, Mark.

Yeah, definitely. Anthony Langer's delivery was good. I'm not going to get too hyperbolic about that because it was so close. You really just had to put that ball into a dangerous place. That goal, to your point, Max, was entirely created by the movement of Murillo. He did a great job coming from an unmarked position. And kids watching, that's how you execute a header, down into the ground, make it almost impossible for the goalkeeper to react. Fantastic finish. And then, yeah, again, his first senior goal, which I can't remember which player it was, but late in the celebrations, one of his teammates, I want to say maybe it was Alaina, but I don't know, could have had a one. Is that your first? And you could see Murillo nodding away vigorously. He was just so excited. And his celebration seemed to go on longer than the goal. The time it took to execute the free kick and then score the goal. The celebration is probably twice as long, and I was glad to see it. Really, really happy for him right as he gets ready to go off and hopefully make his first senior appearance for Brazil as well.

Yes, absolutely. Great to see him involved with Brazil. Who'd have thought that Forest would have pretty much two internationals? Crazy. Morgan gives white for England and Murillo for Brazil. Mental. I never thought that when I started supporting Forest. And no disrespect, but seeing players like Jonathan Greeninger on the city ground turf. I've just been looking, actually, at the BBC Sports Ratings, Mark, and they've rated Ryan Yates 1.84, which I think is maybe a little bit too harsh, but maybe that's because I'm a Yatesy lover.

How Out of what?

This is out of 10. Wow. Yeah. No Forest player got above six on the ratings today, which I think is pretty normal given a result. I'm not going to ask you to rate the players, but do you think that's harsh maybe with Yates? And Let's stick with him. As I mentioned, I just thought he gave quite a lot of fouls away. And yeah, I just thought he had a shocker. And I'm not saying he didn't do this, but when you're maybe a goal down or even two goals down as Forest were today, I I just saw, particularly as the second went in, there was a bit of a lack of communication from the players. And you'd think maybe Morgan, was Morgan still on the pitch? Correct me if I'm wrong, I think he was when Forrest The second goal, I think- The second goal. Yeah, the second goal, Morgan was still on the pitch. And obviously the same for Yatesy. And you'd maybe think for those two players as influential players, as captains of Forest, would maybe communicate a little bit with the players. But I thought I thought they were a little bit quiet just watching them and noticing them.

And look, we don't know what goes on. I can't tell if they whisper anything or said anything at all. But I just thought that it maybe picked the crowd up or picked the players up. I don't think they did. And like I said, I thought Ryan Yates gave many fouls away today. And as you said earlier, Mark, I just thought he had a pretty poor game. Would you agree?

Yeah. Yeah. As I said earlier, I mean, again, big Yates fan, rate him. But yeah, he had a bad day in the office today, and everyone's allowed that. And I think you're right. There definitely was a breakdown in communication on that second goal, but that can happen again. That can happen to the best of teams. Anyone who watched the Arsenal-Chelsea match immediately after would have seen Neto hitting in a banger for Chelsea. But you have to look at the Arsenal defense and say, what What are you doing? They just seem to step off of him and be, Yeah, have a pop. And he did. And that was what earned them a point. So it can happen to any defense. It can happen to any individual player. It's just disappointing that so many Forest players We're off the boil today. But now we go into the international break. Those players who needed a little bit of time, a little bit of rest, a bit of downtime, are going to have the opportunity. Even players like Marillo and Morgan Gibbs-White, who do go off to their respective international teams, are probably not going to feature a whole lot.

So hopefully, they'll have that opportunity to get their legs back under them ready for their return in Garibaldi.

Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned fitness there, and obviously an issue that Nuno talked about. I thought in particular, Alex Moreno, if we're staying on single and out players, I thought he looked very, very tired. And that is understandable given the amount of minutes he's had recently as of all the players. But he looked very tired. And I felt like today Moreno was going back rather than forward when he got the ball. And I just thought, again, some sloppy passes, tackles potentially just not there. And just a bit of an off day, not just for him, but for so many of the players as well.

Yeah, with Moreno, you also have to factor in as well that he was a bit part player for Villa. In the last six months, he came off the back of an injury. He was then struggling to get back into the first team. And so he hasn't had a lot of minutes in his legs, I don't think, over the last number of months. I'm not sure how many it is exactly. And now here he is starting for Forest, playing just about every minute of every game. And occasionally, we've seen him subbed out towards the end when Forest rotated in fullbacks, but he's seen a lot of field time. So it's not surprising to me. He's looking a little bit gassed. And again, he's one of those who will benefit from the international break.

Yeah, absolutely. As many players will, international break probably comes at the right time now. A nice weekend off before the easy trip to the Emirates the following Saturday. Did you feel confident going in at the break at halftime? I talked earlier, Mark, but I just didn't feel confident. Maybe I'm being really negative here and forgive me. But even though Forest were a goal up, I actually looked to my brother and I said, I think we're going to lose this game. I just have this nasty feeling and sometimes you do. And I just thought the game wasn't panning out how Forest would have wanted the game to have gone. I thought, first off, it was not great. Second off, it was obviously a lot worse given the two goals conceded. Three? No, two goals conceded. It wasn't three, thank God. And I just thought that, yeah, going into the break at halftime wasn't great at all. I don't know if you had the same confidence issues or not.

Yeah. It's interesting you should say that because even though Newcastle were the better team in the first half, I felt the game was very much in the balance. And knowing that Forest, generally speaking, are a second half team, I was thinking it's going to be so interesting to see which team grabs this game by the scraff of the neck in the second '45. I was expecting to see one manager or the other make tactical changes or deliver a team talk that would inspire their team to really grab the nettle. Evidently, one of the managers was able to, which does pose an interesting question, Max. Do you think Nuno should go back up into the stands? Do you think if someone said to Nuno, We guarantee you a Champions League place at the end of the season if you spend the rest of the season up in the stands, do you think he'd take that?

Maybe. You never know.

Although even- I think most Forest fans would.

Yeah, I think anybody would. I tell you what, though, the manager of the month, Kirst, really is true, isn't it? And the player of the month, Kirst, for Chris Wood, who didn't score. I'm not criticizing Chris Wood here by any terms. I still think he looked sharp, he held the ball up, but he had a quiet game, as a lot of the players did. And he didn't score and he didn't get a Chriswood goal and he didn't get closer to early in Holland. And then, yeah, Nuno returns to the sidelines with the manager of the Month award under his belt and Forest end up losing the game.

It's lucky there's not a podcast Host of the Month award, isn't there, really?

Yeah, it really is, because I definitely wouldn't get it. Do you know what? I'm shocked to read this, actually, this stat is that if Forest would have won today, it would have been the first time we'd have won four in a row, four straight wins. Yeah, that's four straight wins in the Premier League for the first time in 29 years. So we've not won four games in a row.

I do like all these stats that they're throwing out, which make me laugh. It's the first time for us to have done something in Premier League in 26 years, in 28 years. And 23 of those, we weren't in the Premier League.

I know, yeah. It's a bit harsh, isn't it? It's not like we've been in the Premier League for all those years.

It just makes it more sensational that it really is. Like, 'Oh, wow, Forest had been laboring away for the last 28 years to do this thing. No, 23 of them, we weren't even in competition for it. So anyway.

Yes. Right. I actually wanted to talk about the response after halftime. I always think in any football game, the players have to come out firing and ready. And second half, Forest started sloppy, probably the same way that they started the first half, and then were ultimately punished with equalizer pretty much straight away. From then onwards, you could tell that I just thought Newcastle getting a second, then ultimately a third was inevitable. They have quality on the pitch. They have a good team. They use that team. And I thought they were very physical today as well, Mark. Actually, one point to talk about, Forest came out, stopped in the second half, but we should have battled more really against them. I thought Forest lack physicality, not just in the midfield, not just even in a tack with Chris Woodhold in the ball up potentially. But also defensively, Forest seemed to really struggle with balls into the box and just generally defending. It just seemed that Newcastle are a very, very physical side.

They are, and they're a savvy side as well. I mean, there's playing the game technically and tactically well, which Newcastle did fairly well today. I wouldn't say it was like a banner performance, but of two... Well, I won't say they're a bad team either, but of two teams that maybe weren't playing at their peak today, certainly Forest weren't. Newcastle weren't, doubtedly, the better team both technically and tactically today, at least how they showed in the 90 plus minutes today. They're also savvy there, like you said, very physical, time wasting in the referee's ear, which was really irritating me. But it influences things, and they're smart. I mean, these are seasoned, died in the wall, Premier League players who know what they're doing, and they play every aspect of the game, again, well, not to perfection necessarily today, but I don't want to keep harping on this, but definitely the better of the two teams. I I was disappointed with how we started the second half, Max, although I was bored by how we responded after the third goal. You can argue the game was gone by then, but it was still whatever it was, 10, 15 minutes still to go.

And I think Forest got on the front foot. You could say, well, yeah, Newcastle were a Obviously on their heels at that point. They had a two goal lead to defend, and so it was a lot easier for them to sit deep and absorb that pressure. But Forest weren't out of it. And I think had they gotten a second goal, it could have gotten interesting. I was a little disappointed to hear afterwards that Forest fans were starting to leave the city ground early. And it's not a dig at you. I know you had to leave a little bit early because you have to travel all the way back to Manchester. But I don't know what people's takes are on that. I feel like, intellectually, I get it. You buy your season ticket, you're entitled to say what you say within reason at a football match and leave when you leave. But you're all supposed to be a hard core supporter of the team. I mean, you spend all that money on a season ticket. Why aren't you supporting your team from first minute to last if you don't have travel considerations or need to get the nipper home to go to bed early or whatever?

What's your take on that?

It's funny because I was literally just about to either mention it or I was going to touch on it at the end because it's blown up this. As someone put a tweet on earlier, as everyone does, and it's blown up on Twitter and on the Forest timeline. So we'll talk about it now. I left early because as you said, I had to get out of Manchester and people have work and jobs and life, I think, does get in the way. So Yes, it's disappointing to see maybe fans leave at the end. I'm not in a position to... I think football fans in general take away the Forest connection here. Let's stop talking about Forest for once. Let's talk about if football fans should leave earlier. I think they're entitled to leave when they want. They pay the money. I've got mates that have left when their team has been four-nil down at halftime before and they've missed a 4-4, and that's their fault. And they've left, right? But they're entitled to leave. They would have been entitled to stay. The same way if your team's two-nil up and there's two minutes left and you want to get out and beat the traffic, you're entitled to do that.

So I think that it splits opinion. And I think that there are a lot of people, and it's the same when people say, oh, if you don't go to one game, you're not a true fan. Well, that's actually not true because life just get in the way, right? People have things to do. And football isn't life as much as we all talk about it, and it dominates our mood and how we're feeling on a Saturday, Sunday evening. Today, I'm going to go to bed tonight annoyed that Forest haven't won, but it's just football. Life does move on. And at the end of the day, controversial statement, please forgive me, it is just 11 men kicking a ball, right? And of course, there's much more to that at times. And I just thought that... I think that the Forest fans are entitled to leave when they want. I've got no complaints about the ground being half empty. It was a poor performance, particularly in the second half. And when you are three, one down and you've conceded three at home, wherever you are in the league, whether you're near the top or whether you're at the bottom, I think most...

Well, not most, but a small proportion of fans are going to leave. And I think a lot of Forest fans would have left today not for, let's boycott the game. Almost let's show a message to the players that were really disappointed. I think they just left because they'd probably seen enough and wanted to go home, really, Mark.

Yeah, I want to pick up on one thing. Today, it was not 11 players kicking a ball. It was 10 players kicking a ball, Ryan Yates kicking the opposition.

I knew you could say something like that. So that's my take on it. A bit of a long winded answer. No, it's fair enough. But as someone that watches football a lot and covers it, I think it's not just Forest fans that would have left at that time, after seeing three goals at home, conceded.

Okay, fair enough.

What do you think? You agree?

I'm honestly trying to give you my full attention, but I have the Kansas City Chiefs playing Denver Broncos on in the background, and it's fourth and goal here. And the Chiefs just literally did something rather unpleasant in the bed. I won't say the full saying, but I think you guys can piece it together on the third down. So sorry, this isn't Gary, I've already read talk, but Now, I was fully listening to you, Max. Holi agree with you, whatever you just said. No idea what you just said, but yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely, mate.

I'm kidding. I do agree with you. I think fans are entitled to... Again, you pay your money, You fan as you want to fan. There's no one right way to fan. Me personally, I wouldn't leave the game early. And I think, honestly, from what you just said, the thing that's most important is, were fans trying to send a message to the players? If that was the case, that would disappoint me because we've had a sensational season so far. And I think if you're trying to be really ordinary about one poor performance out of 11, there's been a couple of other performances which weren't high a watermark. But one really poor performance out of 11, if you're throwing your toys out of the pram, that would disappoint me if that's the message you're trying to send as a fan. I don't think it was.

No, I really don't. I think from talking to fans around me at the game and as I was walking back to the car, chatting to fellow Forest fans as you do walking over Trent Ridge, it was a disappointing bad day at the office. The bubble slightly burst. Move on international break next week. Let's all go home and have a roast dinner. Yeah, that was the That was the general saying. So yeah, moving swiftly on. Let us know your thoughts of whether you think fans should be allowed to leave early. At the end of the day, they pay their money, they can leave when they want. Who are we to say that we agree or not? They're just the opinions of us two. People will disagree. That is fine. Life is wonderful.

Just talking about it, he was in the zeitgeist. So just talking about it.

Yeah, of course. Right. Talking of the fans leaving early, maybe let's talk about some of the players that seem to have left early. I thought Anthony Alanger had a poor game, and that may surprise many people, not single-handedly criticize him, but maybe just point him out. I think we've talked about it for a few weeks on the podcast now that he hasn't been in his best form, but I thought his decision making was pretty poor today, and there was just certain things he should have done better. Yes, he gets the cross for Marillo's goal, but other than that, he didn't do much. And if you go on to the majority of the national media They rate him pretty poorly. What did you make of Alanger today, Mark? And is there an argument, a clear reason that maybe Forrest should start Jotter Silver and give him a chance in the next couple of games?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, we don't see what Nuno sees in the training sessions. So we don't have that full body of evidence to draw from when Nuno is picking the starting 11 on any given match. I think Alanger has definitely contributed this season, but anyone who listened to our Ratings pod of a few episodes back now, we know I was fairly critical of Alanga. Again, saying not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, he definitely contributes. I think he's an excellent player on the squad, but maybe his starting position is under threat. I think he's actually picked up then. I'm quite sure he listened to our episode, Max, and responded accordingly. But today wasn't his finest 90 minutes, or no, it wasn't even 90 minutes, was it? He didn't make the entire game. But again, he wasn't alone in that. But I think I touched on something earlier, you revisited it, and this is the thing I think bothered me the most, was the decision making, being selfish on occasion, or maybe just not picking his head up early enough to be able to see the options that were available to him. But either way, the ball got turned over way too much, or he didn't make as much of it as he should have done.

I'd like to see him be a bit more deliberate in taking on his marker. We've seen it a few times. Usually, the ball gets knocked into space and creates a foot race, and that's when he's off to the races. But I'd like to see him be a bit more deliberate when he is squared up one on one with a fullback, to not just be looking inside or rolling it back to Eina, but to think, You know what? Step over and go. Let's have a little dig here. Let's see what we can do. Let's try something different. Let's get that little burst over five yards and then whip in an early cross for Wood or whoever else is crashing the box to have a nibble on. And so I'd like to see a little bit more of him just overall, but that's one area in particular where I think we could get more out of a langer.

Yeah, absolutely. In terms of a langer as well, were you shocked to see Callum once in the door come off for Jota? I was. I thought, very, very Yeah.

Although, as I said earlier, I thought Callum Hudsonadoi was invisible today.

I think he did more than a langer.

What's worse? Is it worse to be invisible and not really influencing the game, or is it worse to see a lot of the ball? I'd be terrible with it. Maybe terrible is a little harsh, but I don't know which it is, really. But I think I agree with you. I was surprised to see Callum come off before Anthony did, but I wasn't surprised to see either of them be subbed. So maybe we're splitting heads on that one.

Yeah, potentially. I thought Jotter Silver, yes, he gives away the ball, which maybe leads to their second or third. Can't exactly remember. I haven't watched the game back in full yet. I've literally got back an hour ago before we started recording this. And I thought Jotter Silver looked bright again. I thought his energy on the pitch.

I think you benefit from a start, Max, because it's funny. As you're saying that, I'm thinking about how he has performed when he's come on. I remember how I alluded to Elliot Anderson being like an over-eager puppy in his first couple of appearances. He was out trying to prove something. He's running around, he's closing people down, he's jumping. Dude, just chill. You got the footwork, wait for the board to come You're going to influence the game. But he was trying to cram all of him into a 10 or 15 minute cameo. I feel the same might be true of Jotter. And I wonder if the manager putting his arm around him and saying, you're starting this next match and give him a heads up and have him settle into that and then be able to go from that first whistle. Maybe he won't try and kill himself. Maybe he'll be a little less frenetic and maybe we'll see a little bit more end product from him because he's definitely got it there. He's got it in his locker. There's no doubt.

I mean, do you wonder, and I often think this in football, Mark, and this is just a random thought that's come to me to bear with, but Nuno almost doesn't want to start Jotter Silva over Anthony Langer because it's Anthony Langer and Callum Hudson at all, because they're the I think if you went into Manchester now and interviewed City fans or United fans, or even you went abroad and interviewed Barcelona, Real Madrid fans, and you said, Right, name me three Forest players. I think the most common answer is probably going to be, Gibbs White, Callum Hudson, Adoy, and Anthony Alanger. Maybe Chris Wood would creep into that.

Maybe Morello these days, too.

Yeah, true, actually. Maybe Morello.

Especially in Real Madrid circles, evidently.

Yeah, clearly, because they want him. But Yeah, I just think that, is there a sense of expectation that they always get a start? And you wonder whether that's the same off the pitch as well with the players and with Nuno. Do they have this similar mentality as maybe the fans do at times?

It could be.

Is Jotter Silver not starting? Because no disrespect to him, but it's Jotter Silver. No one really heard of him up until when he signed for Forest.

Yeah, it could be. It also could, and we're very much in the realms of speculation here, Max. But It also potentially could be we have that quartet that we always see on video together. Sometimes it's a trio. Oftentimes it's a quartet of Callum Hudson-O'Doy, Anthony Alanga, Ola Aina, and Morgan Gibbs-White. And they're bros, they're tight. And I think part of our success, a big part of our success this season has been that sense of team, that camaraderie that has developed, that either has developed organically or has probably been coaxed on by Nuno and the coaching staff. And a lot of that centers around guys that really enjoy being with one another, that want to fight for one another. They're going to give their all for one another, they're going to celebrate hard with one another when they do well. And I think there's a risk in breaking that up in one or two of those guys being sat on the bench in in order to accommodate Sosa or Jotta or Anderson, whoever it might be. That shouldn't really factor in, but let's not be naive. It probably does. So, yeah, I think it's all of those things.

But I think Nuno is smart enough, seasoned enough of a manager to be able to manage that situation and do what's best for the team at the end of the day. So we hope.

Yeah, absolutely. Before we go on to a few more general talking points and sum up, Morgan Gibbs-White. Bit of a poor one from him today, Yeah.

I don't want to dig these players out too much.

I feel like we've been quite... It's hard when we've been on this absolute high and now we're brought, not back down to reality because we never expected really to be here. But It's a sense of... I think it's just a sense of disappointment, but we're not saying, Oh, this is all... It's not like the episodes me and you used to do, Mark, in the last season when we were worried about... Do you remember that one-one draw we had to talk about away at Luton? My God, that was awful. Just look where Luton are now.

I know. I need to learn not to answer my text sometimes. No, sorry. Again, I don't want to dig players out too much. You talk about reality. Here's the reality. I think if you said to any Forest fan before a ball was kicked this season, Forest is going to end up the year in the top half of the table, are you okay with that? Both hands would have been bitten off, right? Yeah. I'm perfectly happy with eighth, ninth, goodness, 10th. That would be great progress. And we'd feel much more comfortable about how things have developed over the last three seasons and where they might then go next season. And now looking at this squad, not just the starting 11, but at this squad, we have a team capable of doing that. If we end up in the top six, that would be mega. If we end up in the top four, that will be ridiculous. If we worry any of the teams are legitimately going for this league title for any period of time, then that's just fun in games, man. That's just giggles, right? I mean, we're not going to win this league. We're not going to be in the top three in the last month of the season.

So I think we do have to be realistic and keep our power to dry on that a little bit and recognize that games like this are going to happen. They are. Newcastle, like you said, they're no mugs. They're a good team. This is going to happen from time to time. If we pick up one defeat in every five games, I'll take that for the rest of the season.

Yeah, absolutely. Especially in the next five coming up. Who will that defeat be to you? Probably Ipswich knowing for us.

Well, Tottenham did it today, right? Yeah. Good grief.

I don't know, Mark. It is a funny one, isn't it? I just think with football fans in general, we are. You're so happy when you've won and then you're so disappointed when you've lost. And I just think today is a little bit disappointing.

I think it's how you lose, though, isn't it? It's how you lose. If we'd gone toe to toe today and it was a one goal defeat, we were like, That's okay. The boys did this good. Because it was such a lackluster performance, it hurts more. It's going to get more criticism.

Should Chris would have had a penalty?

No.

Yeah, I agree. I think we'll be quick to blame poor Anthony Taylor.

Anthony Taylor I'm trying to think of what I had to use here because I want to be able to come back on this podcast. You know what? I'm not even going to say what I think. Even the nice ones are still going to come across harsh. So let's just say Anthony Taylor is consistently inept. He's been very inept for us in the past. He was very inept, I think more for Newcastle today. They had more of a shout for him not officiating with Balanced today than we did. I just leave it at that.

Yeah, he's from near Manchester, actually. He says he's a Wiggan fan or something.

You've got to lift back with him if you just maybe say to the final whistle. Oh, my gosh. I want that podcast, Max and Anthony Taylor in a car, two hours back from notting him to Manchester. That would be an epic episode.

I don't know. I think I'd be arrested after it. Especially if Stuart Atwood was in the back, too. In fact, I'll tell you what Anthony Taylor would do if we were in that car, Mark. He'd be there. You can imagine Anthony Taylor being a right back seat driver because he likes to get involved with whatever he does and he likes to make it all about him. He'd mention himself for the two hour journey back to Manchester from Nottingham. He never asked me about anything I do. He'd make it all about himself. And then Stuart Atwell would be in the corner and Stuart would say something and then I'd have a go maybe at Stuart and then Anthony Taylor would get involved and say, No, no, don't say anything bad about Stuart Atwell. We're all mates with each other. We have to stick up for each other.

You have a five-game ban from the pod, Max, by the end of the hour.

Yeah, I would. Clearly. Yeah, absolutely. Five-game ban and we might win a few games then. That's me never working the PG-M-O-L, is it? I don't think that video will ever happen, Mark. More chance of me with the Prime Minister or something, or the President. Final thoughts, Mark. Final thoughts. Give us some positivity. I just think we've got to look where we are, right? And look where we were a year ago and look where we are now, Forest, a fifth in the Premier League after this weekend on Sunday, the 10th of November. We will go in into another week ready at fifth in the Premier League. It just doesn't get much better than that, does it?

No. And I think there's lots of positives to take out of it. We end going into this international break fifth. Is that right? Yeah. I think both Arsenal and Chelsea went above us with that draw today. But we're in fifth place, which is ridiculous. We're in the top six, 11 games in. We now have the international break to rest players who clearly need that time away from the field. So that's good. And with the exception of today, Forest's best games this season have been against... Actually, you know what? I'm about to... Okay, maybe we finish that thought. With the exception of today, Forest's best performances this season, and generally, actually, since we come back to the Premier League, have been against strong opposition. That being said, of course, we have the West Ham game, who West Ham aren't doing, not tearing up any trees this year, and we batter them accordingly. But generally speaking, when we come up against those teams that we are expected to get nothing from, whether it's Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, we surprise Brighton, we surprise people. So I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. I'm excited going into this holiday season.

I wish I could be back in England. I got back the last two boxing days for games, or maybe it was pre-Christmas and then Boxing Day. Not going to make it this year, unfortunately, but I am looking forward to the next run of games. And I am hoping to your earlier point, that some of our subs get a bit more of a look in. I think it's time.

Yeah, me too. I've been calling it having a shot of silver to start a game. So I'm going to put it on the line. He's going to start against Arsenal and have a brilliant game. Right. That finishes up nicely. Mark, thanks as ever, mate. Not the most entertaining podcast today. Not that much to talk about. So I hope everyone thought we weren't too negative and they're in a dark room lying down. Don't worry. I think this is good. We're recording this Sunday night, but it's going to come out Monday morning. So it's not that bad. It's not all doom and gloom. Forrester fifth in the Premier League. If you're upset at work and you've got us on in the background, go on to Google, search Nottingham Forest, see where we are in the table and just take it in. As always, give us a like, share, and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Follow us across there. Leave us a review if you did enjoy. We shall be back for our next episode, hopefully midweek, and then a preview. And what we're going to do because he's such a loyal pundit to the podcast is for our next episode, Mark is going to literally just stay livestreaming until next.

Obviously, he's a proper fan and he never, ever leaves early. Had to get that one in there. Mark, come on, you reds. Cheers, mate, as ever. You reds.