Transcript of Former Trump impeachment attorney says Hunter Biden’s pardon could backfire

Joining me now is David Schone, a former Trump impeachment lawyer, and Gary Shapley, IRS agent, and Hunter Biden whistleblower. Gary, let's start with you. Despite everything that came out and that Hunter admitted to, you think the DOJ still didn't fully investigate him. What makes you say that?

Yeah, that's correct. Hunter Biden was singled out, just like President Biden said yesterday in his letter, and that was for preferential treatment. During the entire investigation, Department of Justice didn't allow us to follow normal investigative processes that would have potentially led to Joe Biden. Some of it did lead to Joe Biden, as the House and the chairman who engaged in the impeachment inquiry found out. When we didn't have those powers and authorities to go after and find all that the Biden family did, it really just hid that from the American people. Ultimately, they were going to charge in 2022. Then at the end of 2022, they're not going to charge because two Biden-appointed US attorneys became involved and wouldn't allow David Weiss to charge. He requested special charging authority. He wasn't given it. Then we come forward, Joe Ziegler and I, and all of a sudden, Department Justice is trying to cover it up with a Sweetheart Plead deal, which, of course, fell apart. Then when he finally think that Hunter Biden is going to face his consequences for the crimes that he committed, President Biden comes in and pardons him. So he was singled out, and it was for preferential treatment all along.

That's great.

That's a great turn of phrase. Now, we're going to get to David Weiss' statement in just a moment. But David Shown, some experts are saying that this pardon could actually backfire on Joe Biden. Is that true?

Oh, absolutely. Actually, there are a couple of interesting things about it, but I have to say your intro was awesome, and especially when you consider Joe Biden's statement in giving the pardon when said, In my entire career, I've always adhered to one simple principle, tell the American people the truth. Anyway, I think there are at least two elements to this. They're very interesting. It could backfire because a broad pardon like this removes the Fifth Amendment right for Hunter Biden, at least with respect to any federal crime. I would expect you'd see a subpoena potentially from the House or the Senate to inquire about Ukraine activities and all of that thing. Remember, this covers an 11-year period, 10 years and 11 months. But the other part of it is there's a real question whether a broad rather than specific preemptive pardon is valid. Interestingly, Brooklyn's institution wrote a piece when they suspected President Trump was going to give broad pardons, and they suggested that it's not valid. In the Nixon case, he was given a broad preemptive pardon, but it was never tested in court. So someone could challenge this. There are a lot of implications of this, but remember, the The breadth of this pardon is so great that Hunter Biden, literally on November 30th, could have sold 10 kilos of heroin, and he's given license now, at least for any federal crime, to avoid any prosecution for that.

It's any federal crime he committed or may have committed up until December first.

Well, that's a fascinating point about the Fifth Amendment, meaning he has to tell us now what really happened or illegally is bound to because he doesn't have that constitutional protection. That is That was very, very important for everybody to remember tonight. Back to David Weiss, the special counsel in this case, he has come out today against Hunter's case being dismissed with prejudice, saying, The government does not challenge that defendant has been the recipient of an act of mercy. But that does not mean the grand jury's decision to charge him, based on finding a probable cause, should be wiped away as if it never occurred. Gary, he seems to be making your point here, but how significant is it tonight that he comes out and makes that bold statement?

I just believe this is Department Justice maneuvering to make it look like they're still in the game and that they're still pursuing every avenue against Hunter Biden. But hopefully, when the new administration comes in and the new attorney general, Bondi, comes in, they'll be looking into this, maybe appoint a special counsel to investigate this special counsel, because that's what's needed, because the level of malfeasance that occurred at every level from the attorney general, Merritt Garland to David Weiss to the FBI, to IRS leadership, is just quite appalling. That's why I'm very optimistic moving in with this new administration, with the Department of Government Efficiency, who Like I said earlier, could literally be borne out of my brain.

We got to get to the bottom of this. We got to get to the bottom of this. The Ukraine angle we're going to get to later on in the show. But David, to that point, this could be a David Weiss CYA move, too, could it not be?

Absolutely. He's really saying nothing. The fact is, Article 2, Section 2 gives the President the right to pardon, but not the right to expunge. Expungement is a judicial remedy. So what he said is accurate, but I think Agent Shapley is correct. It's just a CYA maneuvering. Remember, maybe the most offensive thing of all of this is that this wasn't just an innocent victim, Hunter Biden. It might be a pitiful character, but he tried to take down these agents. The team behind him challenged the credibility of the agents, and they sued people over the lap and so on. He has a fine lawyer in Abby Loal, and maybe he was smart in putting off the sentence because theoretically, he's not even a convicted felon because there's been no final judgment entered in the case. Anyway, the interesting academic issue surrounding it, but yeah, it just doesn't look good.

Well, Gary, you were brave and stepping forward, you and your colleague, all that time ago, and we appreciate both of you tonight. Thank you very much.

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