Transcript of Homecoming

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He had his eye on her for a while, ever since the day during Academy when she helped new The recruits like him learn the 10 codes and the 911 communications protocol. He definitely liked the sound of her voice on the radio. He'd liked her looks. All the guys did. He liked the graceful way she moved, like a long stemmed lily in a gentle breeze. He had not hit on her. No, back then he was just a boot, a fresh-face rookie recruit looking to make the Greensborough Force. Besides, he already had a girlfriend back in Durham. Her name was Danita. Well, that was then. Now he was a veteran of the Force, a guardian of the City, and at 24, handsome as all get out in his crisp blue uniform. So it was that on a beautiful spring day in 2004, Jermier Stroud asked Shannon Crawley for her phone number. It was the first step on the proverbial Slippery Slope, the start of a series of lies and half-truths. All of it a long, sad tale Jermier I would later tell many times.

I met her years ago.

We had a friendship and a sexual relationship.

I had a girlfriend with me in years of.

Now, here's the thing about undercover her lovers, close friends, even family members, must be kept at a distance.

We were teasing her, saying, What is he going to bring him to the house? When are you going to meet your boyfriend? And she's like, It's not even like that. So he never came to any family functions or anything.

All info had to remain on a need-to-know basis, and most people did not need to know. I just remember her saying, My friend Jameer. But she never talked about him as a boyfriend? No. Often, those kinds of affairs fade quietly with no one the wiser. Sometimes, if the drama becomes too intense, the passion's too hot, well, that's when secret lovers can become as public as the headlines on the front page.

She knew what he was capable of.

This was an obvious murder. It wasn't just a tragic accident. It was a murder. In this episode, you'll hear Shannon Crawley's version of what really happened in Durham on the day Danita Smith was murdered.

He got shot, and not even a minute later, he was running down the stairs, putting the gun down in his waistband.

You'll also hear from those who thought Jermier Stroud was a threat to others.

I even asked her point blank one time, Are you afraid of him? Are you afraid he's going to do something to you?

And you'll hear from the detective who, after interviewing Jermier Stroud multiple times, still was not completely convinced he had nothing to do with his fiancé's death.

I didn't know him well enough to know if there was the eyes watering. I don't know how good of an actor he is.

I'm Josh Mankowitz, and this is Deadly Engagement, a podcast from Dateland. Episode 3, Homecoming. It was late on a Tuesday night when cars carrying Detective Pate and a small contingent of US marshals and police officers from both Durham and Greensboro rolled to a stop in front of Shannon Crawley's Sister's home. The marshals had been tracking Shannon's movements for days. They knew exactly where she could be found once a judge signed a warrant for her arrest. As the detective sat in the warm police this car that frigid night, he likely felt as though he could finally exhale.

This was actually my very first homicide. Everything was happening at a thousand miles an hour. We're having to go 45 minutes to an hour from Durham to Greensboro. We had to get the marshals involved. I mean, it was a lot going on.

The detective had learned quite a bit since his chat with Shannon Crawley. First off, she might have lied about never owning a Maybe she'd also lied about never having been to Durham. One point in her favor, though, the Campus Crossing's maintenance man had not picked Shannon out of a photo array, meaning He could not identify her as the woman he talked with minutes after the murder. That did not keep Detective Pate from putting the arrest in motion.

I'm not in my jurisdiction. It's the marshals and Greensboro Police Department knocking on the door. There were some words exchanged. I guess they came through an agreement, and Shannon comes out. She comes out, they cuff her. She walks out the door as though she's going to check the mail. There's no sad look or anything like that.

Frosty breaths rose into the night sky as the marshals handcuffed Shannon's hands behind her back.

She gets cuffed. She gets to the end of the driveway. And before she gets in the car, she looks at her family and says, Raise them like they're your own. She gets in the car, and we go to Durham.

Raise them like they're your own.

Raise them like they're your own.

Well, those are the words of a woman who does not expect to be raising her own children. Exactly. On the ride back to Durham, Pate sat in the back seat with Shannon while two supervisors sat up front. Because state law required the reading of rights to be recorded, the detective kept the conversation light.

I remember even from commenting on it because of her height. I said, Have you ever played any basketball? And you're a Carolina Duke fan. Which one do you like? And she was Carolina and made a couple of jokes and laughing and smiling. It was fine. We get back to headquarters We put her in an interview and we uncover her. We ask her if she wants anything to eat or drink or whatever. She gets read her rights. As I read her rights, everything's fine. She's looking at me. Not a whole lot of concern being expressed. The minute we start talking about the actual offense, you could see something like showtime. She just got into a different mode.

So more animated?

Not more animated. I'd say dialed in. I could tell that we're going to have wordplay.

She did not ask for an attorney. And so for more than an hour, detective and suspect went round and round, mostly covering old ground. Her relationship with Jamir, the pregnancy, the abortion, and the bitter taste that would not go away.

After the breakup, she says that Jamir was overbearing, intimidating, always carried a gun with him. She's come home from work sometimes, and Jamir had been in her house. Something had been moved, or he'd be waiting around back, or basically, he was stalking her is what she was saying.

At times, the detective must have felt as if he were conducting two different interrogations simultaneously, one regarding a domestic stalking complaint in which Shannon Crawley was a potential victim, the other, a homicide investigation in which Shannon Crawley was a cold-blooded murderer. When you say to Shannon, What about that gun? Why'd you say to us, You don't own a gun, you don't like guns, when in fact, you just bought a gun?

Her response was that I only owned it about two days. It made me nervous. I didn't like it in the house of my kids, so I got rid of it. I asked her where she got rid of it. She said she got rid of it at the Four Seasons Mall in Greensboro. She took the gun, unloaded it, threw it in one trash can, and she took the bullets and threw it into another one because she didn't want to be so irresponsible as to throw them in the same dumpster.

A model citizen.

Absolutely.

And when that same citizen was asked about cell phone evidence that put her in Durham, near Danita Smith's apartment the day before the murder. Shannon had no response. She simply lowered her head and said nothing.

She just kept stating that I need to worry less about her and worry about more where Jamir was. Where was Jamir when this happened? I asked her, I said, Did you do this? She said, You need to worry about where Jamir was. That's what you need to worry about. Where was he when this happened?

As he sat there with Shannon Crawley on the night of her arrest, the detective had the feeling there was something she wasn't saying.

I don't think she knew where things were going to land, whether Jamir was going to be on her side or against her. So I think it was a little too early to start pointing a finger. But she did ask me, Where was Jamir that day?

I'm Julio Baqueiro, anchor of Noticias Telemundo.

You can watch Dateland, the a key true crime series on Telemundo.

And now, you can listen to Dateland as a podcast.

Stories of love and betrayal, of secrets revealed, of the men and women who stand between evil and justice. Every twist and turn can now be heard in Spanish, with new mysteries arriving every week. Just search Dateline en Español wherever you get your podcasts and start listening. Imagine a scene straight from a university brochure. A crisp fall day, wooly clouds, clear blue sky. A flawless day for college football. It's homecoming weekend at North Carolina Central University in Durham, North Carolina. Everywhere are signs of joyful reunion. Alumni who haven't seen each other in years are squeling with delight. Parents are hugging kids they haven't seen since move-in day. It was on a day like that, 2000, that Sharon Smith visited her daughter, Danita, a freshman at NCCU.

We went to homecoming because she played in the band, so we wanted to see her perform.

Danita played the saxophone and looked splendid in her band uniform. And after a quick hug, one can imagine her turning to the tuba player beside her and saying something like, This is Jermier, the guy I told you about. Sharon had been anticipating that moment.

I knew that I would get to meet him.

I'm guessing you're looking him up and down, taking his measure. And?

He gave a very good presentation, very polite, very respectful.

Though Sharon was not exactly wild about the idea of Danita having a serious boyfriend at college, she had to admit Danita and Jermier made a handsome couple. Months later, though, when the relationship was still going strong, Sharon says she tried in her own motherly way to cool things down.

Danita and I had a conversation, and I said to her, Why don't you date other people? If it's meant to be, it'll be. And she told me, No, I don't want to do that. I'm happy with him. We're getting along fine.

So I said, Okay.

What was so great about him?

I don't really know. She never really said. He would make her laugh a lot. But other than that, I don't know.

Edith Kearns knew. The two had roomed together during Danita's senior year. Edith says Danita was quite simply head over heels for Jermier.

He was already an officer at the time in Greensboro. They had been dating for a few years, and Danita spoke very highly of him.

What'd she say?

He's a gentleman. He's intelligent. He's active, involved, well-rounded. He's kind. He respects me. He protects me. He's loving, that thing.

The perfect guy.

The perfect guy. The perfect guy. She was like, He's so handsome.

By the time Danita graduated in 2004, Sharon Smith says she'd come to accept the inevitable. Her daughter was likely going to marry Jermier Stroud.

Try to find every reason not to like him.

Because?

Well, as a parent, we want Our children to have the right person. I wanted him to prove himself to me that you are worthy of my daughter. I knew what he would be getting, but I didn't know what she would be getting. So I tried to find every reason to not like him.

How did you do?

I failed because, again, like I said, he was very polite. He was very respectful.

And you're thinking, damn, right? Couldn't you be rude or say some four-letter words? Exactly.

He carried on conversation. And then that turned from trying not to like him to start to like him.

He won you over.

Right. And I see how happy Danita was, and that's what was most important, is that she was happy. If she was happy, she was okay with him. Okay.

Jamir told Sharon he did not expect to be a cop all his life. Maybe after Danita was out of school and established in a career, he thought he'd like to become a lawyer.

I thought good that he wanted to have a good life. He wanted to give her a good life.

And you thought, okay.

Okay. And he loved her.

Fast forward now to November 2006, another homecoming weekend at NCCU. On this one, the reunited alumni still squel with delight, and the new crop of freshmen are still proudly welcoming their parents to campus. What's different this year is Jermir Stroud, standing close to his longtime sweetie, Danita Smith. He drops to one knee.

He had a photographer and did this big, beautiful speech, and he proposed.

That's Danita's friend, Edith, again.

If my memory serves correctly, I think he had two engagement shirts made for them as well, up at the moment, down on his knee.

You mean with the photo on it?

Yeah, with the photo on it. He had a t-shirt done.

Romantic.

Yes. She was ecstatic. She was like,.

Those were the happy memories, the ones eclipsed months later by the pain of Danita's murder. Now the days were filled with the rituals of loss, attending to funeral plans, organizing travel, the logistics of grief. Danita's funeral was set for January 11th, 2007, a week to the day after her murder.

Jamir came to Charlotte two times during that week before the funeral, and both times he was crying very bad, very hard. And again, I wasn't crying, and I started thinking, Is something wrong with me? But I had to be the strength. I had to get through this. I had to make plans for my baby. He's funeral. And now that I think back and look back on that, I know why he was crying.

Because he knew a secret.

He knew a secret.

He knew you were eventually going to find out.

Exactly.

News of Danita's death and the hunt for her killer were widely reported in the local press. For those closest to Danita, those reports were little more than background noise.

I I received a phone call from someone at Church telling me they had a young lady in custody.

Edith Kearns again.

And then I did see things on the news.

That was when you first heard the name Shannon Crawley?

Absolutely. I had no idea who this woman was.

Shannon Crawley had been arrested late on Tuesday night. By Thursday, the day of Danita's funeral, it was clear to anyone who'd been watching the news that Jameer Stroud was the link connecting Shannon and Danita.

The morning of Danita's funeral, before the funeral, I got a phone call at my house from Jameer's father. He said to me, Ms. Smith, The young lady that they took into custody was a friend of Jamir.

A friend?

A friend. That's how he said a friend. He didn't say what friend. He just said a friend. I said, Okay. And do you have any questions? So I informed him, No, not right now, because I'm getting ready to celebrate my baby's homegoing service. But I'm sure after that, I will have some questions. He said, Okay. He said, Well, we'll be down in a couple of hours. I said, Okay.

Jermier's parents, who were driving down to Charlotte from Greensboro for the funeral, had already heard Jermier's version of the story. No one on Danita's side of the relationship had. Danita's friend, Edith, was one of the few who made the effort and called Jermier.

It was a very brief conversation, to be honest. He did not stay on the phone long.

But what did he say?

I was just talking about the coverage and trying to connect the dots of what happened and who this person was. He was just like, give it some time to calm down and let the truth come out, pretty much. I mean, it wasn't much to the conversation, and then you had to get off the phone.

Let's Let the truth come out. So Jermier is telling you what? Don't believe everything you read.

I suppose that's what he was saying.

By the time Jermier Stroud and his parents arrived in Charlotte for Danita's funeral service, most of those present knew or at least believed he had likely cheated on Danita with the woman suspected of killing her. For Jermier Stroud, it was the most agonizing public outing imaginable.

Jamil rode in the family car with us. He cried the whole time. I was in shock, and I felt I had to hold it together for my family, for my son and my daughter. So we went to the funeral.

How do you do that?

How do you hold it together? Yeah. By the grace of God. God was there with me the whole time. He's my I had a friend. Of course, I had family, I had friends, but all the honor go to him, to God.

There were no words of recrimination said in that car, that was not the time. When Jamir entered the church, well, there were likely some looks cast in his direction that would have frozen a baked potato.

Jamir was sad, and he was crying, and he appeared clearly he was devastated.

Edith Burns.

I think reality was starting to sink in, and that it hit him that the love of his life was no longer with us. I think when you walk around to the cask and everything, it becomes very final. It was very difficult to see her body laying in there.

You already knew that the person accused in Denia's murder was Jamir's other girlfriend. Must have made it hard to speak to Jamir at the funeral.

We didn't have much contact that day.

Because you didn't want to?

My thoughts in my head was more in grief by that point. I was just thinking more about getting through the day and speaking there.

Were you angry at him?

I wasn't happy be, but my focus was more on getting through the day and being there to support Danita's family.

After the funeral, Sharon Smith went home and spent the rest of the day mourning the daughter who'd been taken from her and the world. The next day, she called Jermir. It was not a condolence call.

And I said, We need to talk. And I said, But I can't do it right now.

Because you were too angry.

He said, Okay. I said, Well, rest is true. I'm going to call you. So I had to get myself together mentally, physically, and spiritually to be able to on that conversation. And of course, there's nothing that he could say is going to be the words I want to hear, but I needed him to say something.

Well, I'm guessing Jermir said to you, I had nothing to do with this. I never saw this coming, and I'm terribly sorry, and I'm ashamed of myself. I got that about right? And I'm guessing that didn't do it for you.

No, because I asked him to tell me when he met Shannon and why. Why? Danita wasn't enough woman for you? Why? You knew what Danita was all about. You knew where Danita was going.

Did you have an answer?

He just said that he did love Danita. He was ashamed of what he did. He was sorry. That doesn't bring Danita back. I kept talking to him and talking to him, but the answers weren't changing.

No, on that day, in that conversation with his dead fiancé's mother, Jermere Stroud admitted to little that was not already known. Months later, Shannon Crawley would come forward. With a more detailed account of what she said really happened on the day Danita Smith was murdered.

Every mystery has an answer, but some have way more than one possibility. I'm Yvette Gentile. And I'm her sister, Rasha Pet Carrero. Every week on our podcast, So Supernatural, we invite you to explore the unknown and to consider the many theories behind each unsolved mystery. We'll guide you as you question the world you think you know through investigations into spine-chilling hauntings, unexplainable encounters, strange disappearances, and so much more. So if you're ready to be haunted by stories of the unsolved and of the unknown, listen, if you dare, to So Supernatural every Friday, wherever you get your podcast.

In the weeks after Shannon Crawley's arrest, her family set about the task of assembling a defense team. 201, her Family was convinced Shannon was no murderer, and they told their new lawyers everything they knew about Jermier Stroud. One incident from March 2006 stood out. The family had gathered in New York for a funeral. By then, Shannon had told them she had recently broken up with Stroud.

She didn't want to see him anymore, but he was insistent.

That's Shannon's mother, Anne.

He would call her all the time.

At my mother-in-law's funeral, he called her constantly.

These calls kept coming in over and over and over and over again.

It would always be him.

And that's Shannon's father, Keith Crawley senior.

He would threaten her. He'd ask her questions, What are you doing up there? It got to the point where she didn't want to answer the phone.

Because the relationship had largely been kept under wraps, there were few independent voices to back up Shannon's allegations. But here is one of them.

I knew that she had gotten pregnant, and so she ended up having an abortion, and he was upset about things. And that's where all the problems started.

That is Lisa Smith, one of Shannon's supervisors at the 911 Communication Center. Smith told police she had seen Jermier hanging out at the 911 Center when Shannon was working. She'd heard Shannon complain about his frequent phone calls.

I even asked her point blank one time, Are you afraid of him? Are you afraid he's going to do something to you? And she said, No, I'm not afraid of that.

No, Shannon did not tell Lisa. She feared Jermier. Not then. Those comments to investigators came later. Afterafter Danita Smith's murder. It was in phone calls and visits with her family in the county lockup that Shannon made chilling accusations about Jermier Stroud's behavior toward her. Threatening behavior, she says, began after their breakup.

He would appear in the neighborhood, just sit there in his car and watch the house.

Follow her to work.

Shannon told her folks she had no idea Jermier had another girlfriend in Durham during the time she was seeing him in Greensboro. So to be clear, Shannon didn't know Jermier had another woman, didn't know he was engaged, and wouldn't have been with him if she had known. That's correct. In May 2007, Shannon's defense team asked the court to release Shannon from jail on a bond of $175,000. Weeks after the court approved her release. Detective Pate received a phone call from one of Shannon's lawyers. Shannon, he said, had something she wanted to tell the Detective.

At this point, we had turned over all discovery against her.

That's Detective Pate.

Generally, this is what they call a proffer. You have time to look at the evidence against you, and you can either come tell the truth, or you can get a story that answers every piece of evidence against you.

And that's what you did.

And that's what we got. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be and may be used against you is against the board. Do you understand each of these rights inside of your twainet? Yes. Having these rights of 19, now, I don't need to answer the questions?

Yes.

With her lawyers seated beside her in the small police interview room, Shannon Crawley began telling a story that neatly accounted for nearly all of the known facts. Shannon began by talking about the day before Danita's killing.

January third, I woke up. 6: 15. I was still having breakfast, and my daughter wanted a juice that we He was half in the house. We went to the store.

Shannon told the detective that when she returned from the store, she went upstairs to her bedroom, where she found Jermair Stroud waiting for her.

Jermair was in the bedroom, coming from the bathroom into the bedroom. I started to ask him what he was doing. He put his hand up to his mouth and told me to be quiet and lifted his shirt, showing his gun. I continued to ask him what he was doing there, why he was there, what problem was, and he said he wanted to talk.

The topic, Shannon said, was their relationship. What went wrong? The usual. Though Shannon says she asked Jamir to leave, he insisted she'd take a ride with him.

I asked him where we were going, and he said, I just need you to go with me. I told him I couldn't because I didn't have a babysitter for the kids, and I couldn't leave them alone. He continued to insist, so I go with him. I realized that he wasn't going to give up, and I needed to go with him.

That Wednesday happened to be Shannon's day off. So after telling her kids, ages 10 and 8, that she had to run out for a bit and leaving a number for them to call in an emergency, Shannon says she went to the garage where Jermier was waiting.

We left the house, and he drove my car. We got on 85 and headed towards Durham. I did not know where we were going at the time. We stopped in an apartment complex. He said he would be right back. He took the keys and my phone. He went upstairs. He was gone maybe 5 to 7 minutes. He came back down. I asked him what had happened, where we were, why we were there. He wouldn't answer me. We then drove to an office park of some sort. He circled through just one time, and then we left. We got back on 85, and we headed towards Fancsborough. I believe I called my children on the trip back to check on them. They were fine.

Shannon told the detective Jermier never told her why he wanted her on that little jaunt or what it was he'd hoped accomplish. She just chalked it up to Jermier being Jermier. Then, later that night, close to midnight, Shannon said Jermier returned to her house.

Jermier knocked on my front door. I went to the door, opened the door, and he was standing there and said, again, he wanted to talk to me. I told him I didn't want to talk to him. He didn't step inside. I back down. He was all invited in, but he just walked in forward. He started yelling, telling me that he wanted to talk, and he didn't understand why I was refusing to talk to him. I was worried at that point that my children would hear him, so I did invite him upstairs to my bedroom so we could talk. So the kids wouldn't hear. We talked all in. Neither one of us went to sleep.

According to Shannon, it was more hours of the same old thing, a tedious rehash of their bad romance. Periods of calm, interspersed with angry outbursts.

And I'll try to call him down, and he would get upset and just continue to ask him what the problem was, why he was upset, why he wanted to talk. Never really given him his strengths. Just angry. About five in the morning or so, he said that he again wanted me to go with him. I told him that I had to work that day. He argued with me, said, No, you don't have to work. And I said, Yes, I do.

Shannon said that argument lasted several minutes. Then she said Jermier made her an offer she couldn't refuse.

He said, I'll make it real simple. You can hear your children a diary, die or you die from Rachel. He knew at that point it wasn't a question.

So Shannon said she called work and told them her son had a doctor's appointment that morning and that she'd be late. After telling the kids she had to run out for a bit and giving them an emergency number, Shannon says she and Jamir hit the road again, heading back to Durham.

We got on 85 again. Drove to the same car, went, rocked the car. He got out, took my keys, and my cell phone. He went up the stairs. I sat there. A few more minutes passed, and I heard him arguing, him yelling at someone. Then I heard a woman arguing back. I got out of the car, started up the sidewalk to the the breezeway at our gunshot. I stopped, I looked around. It echoed. Seconds later, he was running out past me from the breezeway. I never saw him go down stairs, but he came through the breezeway towards me and was shoving the gun down in his waist. I asked him what had happened, and he yelled me to get in the car. He got in the driver's seat. I started to get in the back seat, and the door was locked. And I told him, I can't get in the door, it's locked.

Rather than simply unlocking the door, Shannon said, Jermier crawled over the console into the back seat of her SUV and told her to drive. Shannon said she was just pulling out when she was stopped by a man driving a black pickup.

I stopped at the black truck and the man asked me if I was all right. I said, Shook my head, no. He said, Did you hear a gunshot? I said, Yes. He said, Where does it sound like it was coming from? And I pointed to the building, where did it just come from? He said, It sounds like it was going to go over this way. And he went in another direction. I didn't say anything. He said that he again asked me if I was all right. I shook my head now.

According to Shannon, Jermier was crouched in the back the whole time she was talking and kicking the back of her seat to get her to shut up. Shannon says she kept motioning with her eyes toward the back seating hopes the maintenance man would see Jermier back there. But as we later learned, he couldn't see into the back at all.

I'm looking at him and he would ask me something, I'm trying to glance in the back seat, but still trying to look at him, getting me to realize that he was in the back seat. He asked me several times if I was all right, and every time I said no, He asked me if I had the number for Canvas Police, and I said I didn't live there. And he said, Okay, call me out. I'm going to go and see what happened.

Shannon said she encountered the black pickup truck a second time as she was trying to find her way out of the complex. And once again, she stopped.

Jamir was asking, whispering, What's going on? Why did you stop? We need to leave. We need to leave. I didn't say anything back to him. I just kept watching the guy in the truck. Then he drove away. Jamir sat up and said, We need to leave. Go that way. Indicating to make a left out of the complex. I went out of the complex, got back on 85, and came back towards Greensboro.

It was an hour's drive Plenty of time for Jermier to explain what exactly had happened at the apartment complex that morning. But Shannon told the detective, Jermier explained nothing.

I had asked him what happened. Both problem was what happened. I was crying. He was yelling at me. When we got back to Greensboro, we went to his house. He took the keys, went inside. He came out a few minutes later, went back to my house, thought it was a garage. He asked me where I was going. So I I have to go to work. You know I have to go to work.

Shannon said she changed into her work uniform and went to her job where she clocked in at about 10: 00. At 11: 15, she said Jermier called the 911 Center and didn't ask for her.

One of the girls I've worked with answered the phone. No one was on the line. I asked her who it was, and she said, I don't know that guy that always calls for you. I walked over to her and had her play the phone call back. I recognized this voice asking for me.

The story Shannon Crawley had just recounted was hair-raising. In her version, Jermier was furious Shannon had broken up with him. That anger apparently made him not just unstable, but violent.

He threatened me on numerous agents. He knows I'm afraid of him. He knows what to say.

And so, she said, Jermir Stroud killed Danita. Then, in an act of revenge against Shannon for rejecting him. He framed her for Danita's murder. When it was over, Detective Sean Pate was impressed. Shannon had run back and forth across the state's case and touched all the bases. She had explained why her phone hit cell towers near Danita's apartment the day before the murder. She had explained why her car had been spotted at the scene of the by the maintenance man. She put the gun in Jermir Stroud's hand, and she had explained why gunshot residue was found on her car's steering wheel.

So when she's telling this story, I'm thinking, wow, this actually sounds pretty decent so far.

Did anything Shannon said in that three-hour interview make you think maybe we were wrong about Jamir?

She did put a doubt in my mind about Jamir again, but then I went back and I just said it, and none of it makes any sense. Even if this story you were telling them was true, why didn't you tell it the first day?

Shannon's response was that she had feared Jamir might harm her kids or her family. If he learned she was cooperating with police.

Again, my children were my main concern. I was not going to say anything or do anything until they were safe.

That might have seemed a reasonable concern, except for one thing. Shannon's children were living with her. And as for Jermier Stroud, well, it would only be a matter of time before he knew Shannon was talking to police. What would happen then? Next time.

She's hysterical, and I'm like, What's the matter? And she's telling me, she said, Jameer, he was here. He hurt me.

You know how police work, though.

You understand that we have to follow up on everything.

Anything you want to add?

He's blaming me a lot. I mean, I just want to be left at home.

This podcast is a production of Dateland and NBC News. Tim Beacham is the producer. Marshall Hausfeld, Brian Drew, and Deb Brown are audio editors. Kimberly Flora's Gainer is associate producer. Adam Gourfane is co-executive producer. Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is senior executive producer. From NBC News Audio, Sound Mixing by Rich Cutler, Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.

Hey, guys. Willy Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with one of the biggest stars in the world, Gloria Estefan., on the extraordinary life story of a young Cuban exile who became a music icon. You can hear my conversation with Gloria for free wherever you download your podcasts.