Transcript of Talking Dateline: The Night of the Audition

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Hi, guys. I'm Blaine Alexander, and this is Talking Dateland. Today's episode is a Keith Morrison story, The Night of the Audition. It begins with the disappearance of 25-year-old Shannon Madil, a rising actress in Calvary, Alberta. Just days after a promising audition in November of 2014, Shannon was gone. At first, her husband said she headed 200 miles away for an acting job, but as police investigated, they uncovered secrets about the marriage, inconsistencies in Josh Burgess's story, and ultimately, his chilling confession. If you haven't watched this episode yet, you know what to do. You can find it right below this podcast or stream it anytime on Peacock. When you come back, we'll share more of Keith's interview with the trainer who helped Shannon's mother, Lisa Lisa channel grief into strength. All right, Keith, let's talk Dateland.

All right, let's do it.

I have to say that just from the very first shot, the very first line, this story drew me in because it began in such a different way from a lot of our other stories. Stories, right? I mean, usually it's the death or whatever has happened, the mystery right off the bat. But here we have a woman who's boxing.

Yeah. Well, my brilliant producing partner, Tim Eulinger, decided that's a good way to start this story because it really was a very important way for a mother to deal with what happened to her daughter. I was reading about... I'm changing the subject just a little bit for a moment, if that's permissible in this program. Please do.

I think it is, Yes, please do.

Reading about this wonderful children's author named Robert Munch, who lives in Guelff, Ontario, Canada, with his wife, Anne. But there was a phrase he did for a book. See if I can remember it, that was appropriate, I think, for Shannon's mother. I'll love you forever. I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my baby, you'll be. I think any mother could relate to that, probably.

Absolutely. I know that book. I know that line. Yeah. I know it well. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And I think that's exactly it. I mean, There are so many different ways to start a Dateland story, to get into a Dateland story. But to start immediately with the pain of the person left behind, I think was a very striking way to do it. Because immediately I thought, oh, my gosh, what happened? What led her to this place. Sure. Let's talk about Shannon, 25 years old. What did you come to find out about her?

Well, Shannon was really the heart of this thing as far as I was concerned. It's what really attracted me to this story as much as anything else was her character, the type of person she was. She was vibrant, she was witty, she was funny. She spent some time doing stand-up comedy. She was a talented young actress. You know some families where There is one person who is, I don't even sure what you'd call them, but the vibrant life spark in the middle of the family. Unpredictable, difficult, not always successful, but you can't take your eyes off them. And that was her.

I got that sense immediately. I have to say that watching this, obviously from the standpoint of putting together Dateland stories, you all had a tremendous gift, which was a trove of video of Shannon. Yes. That's not something that we often have when we talk about people who have been taken away. To be able to really, I mean, in so many ways, Keith, bring her to life in this story, very quickly in that piece, I felt like, Okay, I know her. I got a sense of her. I got a sense of her personality, what she's like. That's not something that we can often do.

Right. Almost in real-time because the audition she did, was it just a couple of days before she was reported missing? And in fact, we've already done the spoiler alerts, I know. But the day she did the audition was the day she died.

That added a bit of a eerie factor to it as well, didn't it?

Yeah, very much so. Her unpredictable was such that when she didn't show up for a family dinner, the expectation was that she had suddenly got an audition somewhere up in Edmonton. And then later on, they found an evidence of a credit card being used in New York City. Maybe she'd gone there. The idea that she would up and take off and go somewhere was not out of the realm of possibility. Sure. And she was missing, and they had no reason to suspect her husband. They seemed to have a very close relationship. He seemed to worship her, and he also was very happy to be included in family events. So they didn't have any reason to suspect that he was responsible responsible.

Even her family seemed. I mean, I think there was a sound bite where she said, Up until the day that there was a confession, she never thought that it would be him. Right. This great surprise, right?

Yeah.

Which in a lot of the stories that we do, it's thinking, Okay, gosh, I hate to think this, but maybe it was her husband, maybe it was the partner, maybe it was somebody. But the fact that they really, in their minds, stuck by him for so long was also very striking to me.

Yeah, it was striking. One of the interesting things about this? He confessed through a doorway to a cop who was standing outside by herself. She heard it alone, and so she had to get more corroboration before she could actually use it. But then we started to talk about the methodologies of police work in Alberta and much of Canada. And they're quite a bit different than they are here. I say quite a bit different. I'm not schooled in this, so I'm maybe going not too far, but they are different and it is very complicated and it takes a long time. So that was part of the reason this took so long to solve, months and months, because just applying for a warrant to look inside the husband's house, it seemed to take forever. There had to be more evidence of guilt than, I think, right when I say this, and there would have been required in an investigation in New York LA or something.

I believe. Interesting.

Yeah.

Can we talk about this confession? There were two confessions, but the first, through the door, underwear-clad, no recording, covered in blood confession. I mean, there are so many bits of drama to that moment that it was almost hard to sift through it. But I just can't imagine being the investigator who gets this confession through the door and has no way to prove it. No recordings, no body cams, no anything running. That has to be the most frustrating thing. I can't imagine anything more frustrating in that situation.

It was frustrating for us not having video of that. So you could imagine what it would be like for her.

Right. I mean, you've done a number of these stories. There have been confessions all over the place. Have you seen anything quite like that one? No.

He was an unusual character. I don't know if you remember a story about a... I'm talking about Canadian stories, but a Canadian colonel who who was attacking young women. At first, he started out by, sneaking into their houses and stealing their underwear, and then he graduated to killing them. He had been a highly regarded, decorated senior member of the Canadian military, so it was a terrible scandal. We get to the interrogation when they finally get to the place where they have enough evidence that they can put them into a room and they can ask them the questions about what really happened. And because he has, he's confessed to nothing. He doesn't even know he's a suspect until that moment he's run into the room or he has lots of reasons to not think he's a suspect. And that guy who did the interrogation was so incredibly skillful. He was very polite, very friendly, treated the colonel with great respect. But it's that interrogation, which, again, I think we saw something of that in this conversation that you watched, is pretty successful, generally.

Absolutely. Because I I wondered watching it and now talking to you, if he had taken the complete opposite approach, come in, yelling at him, cursing him, I know you did this, blah, blah, blah. Certainly, you wonder what that would have yielded because Josh all along had certainly had everybody fooled. And so you just wonder what... Certainly different approaches make all the difference.

Well, they worked at him for quite a while before this fellow came in, and they weren't getting anywhere. So they were running out of time. They had to get They only had him in there for, I can't remember how many hours, but they had to get whatever they were going to get from him within that period of time. They weren't there yet, so they wouldn't be able to charge him, so they'd have to let him go. So with just a few hours left, in walks this fellow who does the victim blaming routine, and that worked.

It was fascinating to watch. It really was. When we come back, you'll hear from Lisa's trainer, Jeff Starling, who also lost a family member to a tragic murder, about how he turned workouts into therapy and how the gym became for him a place of healing.

Hey, guys. Willy Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with Eva Longoria to talk about her rise from the small Texas ranch where she grew up to the heights of Hollywood as an actress, producer, director, and philanthropist. You can get our conversation now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

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I'm always struck by someone who has knowledge and has close proximity to a family who is trying to find answers for so long and to be able to be with them as they're suffering and wondering and not really sure what's going on and still keep that a secret. It's just really, really chilling.

You could go and be, apparently, Mr. Nice guy with the family family, over Christmas, take them Christmas kids. And you know it's full well that their daughter is in a Tupperware container on his porch.

On the porch, yeah. When you spoke with Shannon's family, and I really loved the interview with her mother. How was that for her to find out that bit of information? On the one hand, there is the answer, right, that you've sought for so long, but the answer is so painful.

Well, she's been dealing with that for a long time now, for about a decade. And I I think that... She has found some measure of, I won't say peace, but some way to deal with it through the boxing that we showed at the beginning on the end of the program. That was huge She's important to her to be able to take out the aggression and the anger.

Well, you talked about Lisa, Shannon's mom, and just the ways that she has dealt with this, which, of course, has been tremendously difficult for her. Boxing. We start with those images her there in that Calgary gym, and we actually hear a little bit more from a trainer. His name is Jeff Starling, who also lost a loved one to a murder. To murder. Talk to me about that connection.

They both went through this terrible traumatic thing, so they understood each other. I think had she not gotten the impression that her instructor knew where she was coming from, it wouldn't have been quite as helpful to her. It was as a way to release their grief, as a way to get it out. It's been That's wonderfully helpful to both of them, I think.

Sure. Keith, let's play a little bit of your conversation with Jeff.

I lost my brother, my younger brother, Laurie, around the same time that Lisa lost Shannon. Then we met at a support group for families who've been impacted by homicide. It took a few conversations over a few months to convince Lisa to come and try this out. She had done exercise and movement and fitness in the past, but this was going to be a more intense relationship, coach-client. Yeah, but we had the bond of that shared loss, which gave us an anchor to work off. Lisa and I joke that no matter what's happening in your day, the bar always weighs £45. And in a time when there is so much chaos and unpredictable ability and people making decisions on you and your family's behalf that impact your life very intensely, being able to come to a place where everything Everything is very predictable and stable and non-chaotic was very important, very helpful.

That was really powerful. He said several powerful things in there. One, I really loved the bar always weighs 45 pounds no matter what's going on on the outside. In a world of where everything's going crazy in your life as you're dealing with this tragedy, you know that there is at least one source of consistency.

It's true, which I think people really need.

One of the most fascinating things to me, Keith, about being in this role is talking to, sometimes after the cameras stop rolling and talking to families and just hearing how they've channeled their grief, what it looks like to try and heal, what it looks like to try and find some new semblance of life after an event like this. And some people who take it and say, I want to help other families find justice. I want to start a foundation in my loved one's name and do a lot of good that way. Or certainly something like this when it comes to boxing or channeling that grief into something with someone who can understand them as well.

The first time I encountered this was years and years ago when good friends of my wife and I, we lived in a different part of Los Angeles, but they went on a summer trip. They were riding along the highway on their bicycles, and their 13-year-old daughter wanted to ride on ahead. Maybe she was 11, a young daughter. And So they wanted to give her a little more freedom. One of the parents was a little more protective. The one who wanted to give her more freedom said, Let her go on ahead. Let her go ahead. Have her private time. So they did. And she rode on ahead, a quarter of a mile or so, went around a bend, hit by a car, killed instantly. Oh, God. So we went with that mother and father through the process of when they brought the girl home, when went to the funeral home with them, were there the day that she was able to say goodbye to her daughter's body in the casket and saw that raw grief that I'll never forget for as long as I live. But the reason I'm telling you is because she put this grief of hers to work also.

She formed an organization that her daughter who had loved dancing, that age, so many girls do. So she opened a school for little girls to learn to dance in the inner city. And it's now been, I don't know, a quarter of a century or so that it's been going great guns. And it was the thing that saved your life. And in a similar way, as you pointed out, if you've got that 40 pound weight you're going to have to deal with, or if you got some specific thing that you're going to do that is going to channel this into something positive. That's what a parent can do.

I mean, I wonder if that is one of the things that will go forward, the power of taking your grief and being able to put it somewhere or find some way to move through it.

Yeah, probably. But you lose somebody in a family, it does change your perspective on things a lot. I think that's why that little bit of dog girl struck me so much. That little line, I'll love you forever. I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my baby, you'll be And that's what her mother feels. I can tell you for sure, as long as she's living, Shannon will be her baby.

Well, it was a beautiful interview and a very powerful story, certainly in learning about Shannon, but just in the many ways that this person was ultimately brought to justice. Coming up, we will answer some of your questions from social media. Well, as you can imagine, Keith, we have a lot of social media comments, questions, and thoughts. Oh, yes. All right. Sure. So let's go to some of those. Southern Beach Girl, I love that name, Southern Beach Girl. It says, Don't be flaky about meetups with family or friends, or they'll never know you're missing.

Well, that's a good bit of advice, I think, I guess. Interesting take.

Interesting take. Yeah. Stay in touch. Yeah.

On behalf of parents everywhere, stay in touch.

There you go. But no, certainly, we've seen a lot of stories where people It's been a family gathering. I've actually done a story like that where it was a Thanksgiving gathering, and the daughter didn't show up, and they said, What's going on there? And that's how they ultimately found out that she was in trouble. We have a few audio questions as well. Let's play one from Hi, my name is Debbie.

I'm from Millington, Tennessee. Really wish I could join you all in Nashville. It would be awesome. But anyway, my question is for Keith, and I just wonder, Over the years, is there one case that has just stuck with you that just still eats at you? That's my question. Thanks, Roy.

Well, it's a good question. I have to I'll tell you, people have asked that before. There are so many of them that I can't land on any one in particular. But I keep thinking of other stories and bringing up moments in them that live with me. One of the things about this, it's not just a question of, is there a murder? Will they solve the murder? But what a few decades of doing this work will do is give you an experience of of the way human beings tick that you would never get in any other reporting. You can report on politics as I have done in the past until you're blue in the face, but it's not really going to tell you the nature of human beings like this reporting will do. What we are capable of, good and bad, what families are like, how everybody lies about things, how secrets are kept, it's endless. Just the way human beings behave is the fascinating takeaway from this reporting.

We have a question, another audio question. This is from Becky. Let's listen.

Hello, this is Becky from Shreveport, Illinois. My question is, how does it determine which journalist does which story? By the way, I think Keith Morison is the best story, Todd. Thank you.

We We agree, Becky. We agree.

I think Blaine is a better story child. Oh, no. We arm wrestle. Is that what we do? We're going to be doing some arm wrestling in Nashville.

That's what we... We get together in a room, they throw out a right along the table, and we all wrestle over it. And Keith is clearly the strongest among us. And Josh, they're very strong.

That was great.

No. It comes down to a number of different factors. But a lot of us, sometimes we bring stories to the table, right? There will be stories that we're particularly interested in that you've been following or that you have a passion for wanting to tell.

Sure. It's a little different than a lot of the reporting that you imagine a newspaper reporter or a TV reporter doing. It's a whole group of people who will consider all the facts of a story that you can ascertain at least and have a meeting about it and go over it and will it fit into the... Is this the story we can adequately do? And then if If we can adequately do it, who should produce it? Who should be the person who's the correspondent? There's an awful lot of thought that goes into these decisions. We're fortunate to have some people who are pretty good at That decision making.

A whole army of a team that is fantastic at this. Yes. Well, no, these were great questions. Somebody mentioned Nashville. We'll do some arm wrestling in Nashville, won't we?

You bet. I'm looking forward to it.

Well, Keith, it's always such a pleasure to talk Dateland with you, my friend. Thanks so much for joining me today.

Thank you. It's been a delight, as always.

As always. All right. That's it for talking Dateland this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you have a case that you want us to cover or a question for our team, you can reach out to us anytime on social at datelandnbc. You can also leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252, or send us a voice memo in a DM. Keith, you check those voice memos, don't you, personally?

Yeah. I spend most of my day doing that.

Exactly it. One more thing. We are just one week away from Dateland Live in Nashville. That's taking place Sunday, September 28. You still have a little bit of time to get your tickets, but they are going fast. Head to datelandnbc. Com/event. That's datelandnbc. Com/event to grab your tickets now. We'll make sure to see you there, of course, and we will always see you every Friday night on Dateland, N. B. C.

Friday night on an all-new Dateland. She had just revealed her secret.

No one heard from her again. There were people who had motive to see her go away. When I first saw the video, my jaw dropped. Amazingly, it doesn't end there.

An all-new Dateland, Friday at 10: 9 Central, only on on NBC.