Transcript of Crisis at Cornell. Husband on trial for missing wife's murder. Plus, "The Widower" documentary.

Stay informed with the NBC News app.

Major developments out of the White House.

Read, watch, and listen throughout your day. And now unlock even more with an NBC News subscription. Get deeper reporting and exclusive articles, plus more insight, analysis, and content only for subscribers.

When you really look inside these numbers—

It's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more.

I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers.

Cheers.

Cheers.

I've always been a glass half full kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too. Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges. Their stories are funny and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week, and who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full.

Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin from today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

What was he charged with this time?

You're listening to the Dateline story meeting.

Murder.

Still top count. The team is catching up on breaking crime news.

He said the whole case was based on speculation. The story changes after his confession gets tossed out.

He's got multiple women in his life.

Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett, in for Andrea Canning. It's October 8th, and here's what's on our docket. In Northern Virginia, a man is on trial for the murder of his wife, a beloved nurse, even though her body has never been found.

They start finding video of Naresh traveling around town and throwing out dark plastic bags.

And emotions run high at the sentencing of former American Idol contestant and now convicted murderer Caleb Flynn.

I stand here before God, who is my ultimate judge. I am not lying when I say I did not kill my wife.

Plus, the cat-and-mouse game between a Dateline producer and a man accused of murdering his 6th wife is at the center of The Widower: Till Death Do Us Part, Netflix's latest true crime documentary. That producer, Dan Slepian, will be here to tell us all about it.

You know, this is a guy who has a certain kind of charisma and charm that, that hides a real menacing nature.

But before that, we're heading to upstate New York, where disturbing revelations about an alleged sexual assault 2 years ago have thrown an Ivy League campus into crisis. A warning to listeners, this segment contains discussion of sexual violence. Please take care while listening. Last month, the idyllic campus of Cornell University, with its rolling hills and stone buildings, was thrust into the national spotlight by news of a civil lawsuit filed by a former student.

Jane Doe filed a lawsuit accusing members of the Chi Phi fraternity of drugging and sexually assaulting her.

The lawsuit spans 100 pages. And in it, this former student— she's going by Jane Doe to protect her identity— lays out in vivid detail what she says 7 students did to her at a frat house in October 2024. She accuses the university of failing to properly investigate. Over the past few days, as more details emerged about this incident and its aftermath, protests have swelled as current students speak out on campus.

What do we want? Justice!

When do we want it?

Now!

Here to bring us the latest is NBC News correspondent Maggie Vespa, who's been reporting on the ground in Ithaca, New York, York since the very beginning. Maggie, thank you so much for being here. Of course. Of course.

Thank you guys for having me.

So just describe the scene because it feels like it has gotten increasingly tense.

It's been incredibly tense. You know, we had a march on Monday. I would say close to 2,000 people, easily 1,000 people. Students had, like, an organized list of demands. They want all of the 7 accused fraternity members either expelled or if they've already graduated, which some have, they want their degrees revoked by Cornell. Some are asking for administrators to resign. I mean, this isn't the first time they've disappointed us. And if we can't trust them to support and protect us now, why would we trust them to protect us in the future? We now have, for the first time, faculty speaking out, introducing a resolution of no confidence in administrators here. They're not specifically calling on anyone to step down. In fact, the sponsor A professor at Ortiz told us, we specifically didn't name anyone on purpose, but we don't believe that the school is capable of protecting students here. And we've heard from too many students with too many experiences similar to Jane Doe. They feel like the lawsuit's like the tip of the iceberg.

I want to go back in time and lay out some of the basics of what we do know, because a lot has come out in just the past couple weeks. Jane Doe's civil lawsuit lays out her version of events. What exactly does she say happened that night?

Yeah, so it was October 2024. She was a member of a sorority, and she and her sorority sisters basically went out drinking. Then, as her suit puts it, she stumbled alone to the Chi Phi frat house to see a friend who, it seems like, pretty quickly suggests, per the suit, that they have a threesome with another guy. Once that's happening, there are drugs brought into the picture. She says she was pressured to do ketamine, which on top of being drunk from partying earlier in the night, she says really eroded her ability to consent and her just, like, physical capacity to be aware of what was happening with her body.

Yeah. For people who don't know, I mean, ketamine is a strong, strong, strong drug. This is not like a little bit of weed from college students.

Exactly.

And while this is all sort of transpiring, they're also sending messages within the— let's call it the frat group chat, basically beckoning other guys to come to the room. Oh, yeah.

One guy asks, shop still open? Guys are told to whip it out with a picture of her. And there are more than 50 members of the frat in that group chat. Her attorney has called that screenshot of that group chat a, quote unquote, smoking gun, that it speaks to they were aware that they were bringing more men into the room than this girl had consented to, and they were kind of coordinating behind the scenes without her. consent or awareness at the time. Now, the guys tell a very different story, and this is according to disciplinary documents from the university, Title IX documents that lay out the investigation Cornell conducted at the time, that the men said that they were checking in several times, and she seemed thoroughly okay.

She eventually gets out of the room. She reports the incident to police a few weeks later. And you've mentioned something known colloquially, sort of, as Title IX, but that's for people who don't know, it's a federal law that actually requires schools to conduct an internal investigation, essentially to protect students' civil rights, right? You have a right to be free from sexual assault on college campuses. What do we know, based on your reporting, about what the school found in their Title IX investigation?

We know it was expansive, the investigation. More than 50 interviews, per the documents we reviewed, with more than 30 witnesses. And those witnesses are everyone from the roommate who saw her as soon as she walked in, coming back from that, saying that she looked stunned, There were multiple members of the fraternity, obviously including the accused, but other members of the fraternity as well, and other students who came forward both to the university and to campus police.

So there's one conversation Jane Doe has, and it's this interview with campus police and a Title IX investigator. And there's been a lot made of that particular sit-down. CBS News reported that according to the transcript of that interview, Jane Doe says, I can say with 100% confidence I was raped. Maggie, what do we know about the context in which that was said?

We know it was weeks later. We know that immediately after that night, she, per these Title IX documents, had texted with some of the accused saying that everything that happened was legal, that people need to be more open-minded. The attorneys for the members who were accused are pointing to those quite a bit, saying, see, this is proof it was consensual. Her attorney says, no, it's not. It's a very standard grieving process. and emotional process that victims of sexual assault go through. They deny it at first. They try to make it okay at first because maybe admitting that you're a victim of sexual assault changes your life. It's incredibly dark. In the weeks that follow, she continues to process it, continues to talk to friends, also sees some online rumors about it, and a lot of women saying, this sounds like it could be assault. By the time, almost 3 weeks later, she talks to police, makes the report, you're right, she drops that quote which made massive headlines, I can say with 100% confidence I was raped.

What do we know about the punishments that were handed out to these men after the Title IX investigation?

Um, in the end, the university, in their Title IX investigation, determined there was a variety of things that the men did in that room, which ranged from sexual assault down to drug use, or viewing her in a state of undress without her permission. So, what we know is that 2 of the 7 accused Chi Phi members were expelled from Cornell. 2 were temporarily suspended, and then one who had already graduated by the time these decisions were made, he was barred from campus for 3 years. The remaining 2 were told to have no contact with Jane Doe. They were told to study sexual harassment and then write what the Title IX panel referred to as reflection papers. About the alleged incident.

At least one of the men is still on Cornell's campus.

He is. And there's now an infamous video of a woman confronting him on campus. Everyone at Cornell is ashamed of you. Like, that group chat is fucking disgusting. I have nothing to do with that. He, in the video, basically tells her, I don't know you. I wasn't involved in the Snapchat conversation. I'm not gonna talk to you about this. His attorney said effectively, This is the danger of sort of trial by social media in the modern era.

Yeah.

He's never been found guilty of a crime, and now he's getting accosted on campus. But he, to your point, is here continuing his education. Jane Doe's attorney, in the meantime, points out she has had to withdraw from Cornell. He said she couldn't take it anymore. She was deep in throes of depression and panic attacks here in the wake of this. So she's— her education is on hold.

I think it is that contrast, that perceived disparity...

Exactly.

...in what the outcomes have been for somebody who says they were assaulted versus somebody who allegedly participated in the assault is what fires up a lot of anger in these cases. NBC has also uncovered a fair amount of text messages between the fraternity brothers Once they learn that this has sort of turned into a real investigation. What do the text messages show?

So, it shows that in the aftermath, the frat is temporarily suspended. Uh, you see text messages where one of them says the F-word, uh, and then asks if he should call Jane Doe. Uh, from there, the president of the fraternity responds via text and says, no, not yet, meaning don't call her. Another guy responds, says, Jesus Christ. There's another woman who said that she was told by somebody in Chi Phi that they were going to have a meeting to get everybody on the same page, everybody in the fraternity, as far as what they were gonna tell police.

So, this is just the type of thing that an outside law firm is now gonna have to look into. So, Cornell has commissioned this firm to conduct an independent investigation. They wanna be able to say, Look, we've turned to the outside. We know that we can do better. And so the university president released this video message over the weekend.

We must do everything we can to prevent what happened to Jane Doe and everyone before her and anyone after her from ever happening again.

So we've been talking about the college piece of this case, which is obviously huge, but let's talk for a second about what's going on on the criminal side of this. You have the district attorney, the lead prosecutor, Matthew Van Houten, who decided back in 2024 that there was not enough evidence to bring criminal charges against any of these 7 men that we've been talking about. And he said that he based that decision on Jane Doe's sworn statement, which was given to him by campus police. But why didn't he ever talk to Jane Doe?

The DA says he didn't get all the evidence from campus police, including Jane Doe's initial interview where she says I can say with 100% confidence I was raped. He says, I got a 6-page condensed statement, like it was really whittled down. She said it was consensual. The governor has stepped in and said, why didn't you ask to talk to her yourself? Why didn't you ask for more evidence? Based on what I know about how this investigation went down, she doesn't trust the DA anymore. So now we have the Attorney General Letitia James taking over, and she's said a couple of key things. This is going to take a lot of time. I know that everyone wants answers. So do I. But we have 7 potential defendants. We have a number of stories, dozens of witnesses, a lot of evidence to look through, including the Title IX evidence we've been discussing. Jane Doe's attorney has championed the fact that the Attorney General has been brought in. But he basically said, we would have loved this amount of enthusiasm 2 years ago because guess what? A lot of the evidence is probably gone.

The passage of time obviously makes things more challenging for prosecutors and investigators. But one thing that has not changed here and has gotten a fair amount of criticism is the law. New York's law, like more than a dozen other states, actually makes it really tough to bring a successful case of rape when you have consumed alcohol in— at least in the eyes of the law— voluntarily.

Yeah, so New York State's law says that if you voluntarily drank, used drugs. Basically, you got voluntarily drunk or high. You can't blame, in effect, being too drunk or high to consent on the person you're having sex with and then claim that you were assaulted because you inebriated, incapacitated yourself in the first place. Pretty much everyone involved has acknowledged that this law is incredibly limiting, if not a problem. Like, the governor—

Yeah.

In conjunction with Assigning the Attorney General said, and I also— next breath— I'm also going to throw my weight behind changing this law.

As of the time that you and I are talking here, Maggie, NBC News has reached out to all 7 of the accused for comment, either through their attorneys or through direct outreach to these men. What is the status of that so that we aren't just treating them as one group?

Sure. So 3 effectively have responded in some form and denied the allegations against them publicly. Scott Kretschmar, via his attorney, has denied the allegations and said that he welcomes the new criminal investigation. They called the lawsuit intentionally dishonest. An attorney for Jillio Lopes, the one who was seen in that video being confronted on campus, he told me that his client acknowledges that he had a sexual experience with Jane Doe but says that it was consensual, and he full Ahn denies any allegations of sexual assault. And then there's a third man whose attorney gave a statement to ABC News denying that he engaged in any sexual activity or drug use.

Maggie, it's a tough case. It's an important case. Uh, we're so grateful for you being here and walking us through all of your amazing reporting. Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, Call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or visit rainn.org— that's R-A-I-N-N dot org— for more resources. Coming up, prosecutors argue a Northern Virginia man killed his wife. His attorneys say that without a body, there's no proof.

The midterms are just around the corner, and it's safe to say there's been a lot of noise about the election. Well, now it's time to lock in. What's really on the ballot this November, and what's really at stake? We'll get you up to speed on all of it. I'm NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Garrett Haake, and every Saturday from now to Election Day, I'm hosting Here's the Scoop: Election Edition. We'll talk to some of the smartest voices about the top issues that are going to define this election. From President Trump's influence to the war with Iran, to affordability and AI in politics. We're diving into all of it and what it could all mean for the direction of the country. Join me every Saturday. Just search Here's the Scoop wherever you listen and follow now.

The case that shocked Massachusetts. A pregnant young woman dead. A former Stoughton police officer accused of her murder. And now he's on trial. NBC 10 Boston is inside the courtroom every day, following every twist, every revelation, and every critical moment. With expert legal insight and analysis night after night, this is coverage you won't find anywhere else. Commonwealth Confidential: The Sandra Birchmore Case. Download the podcast today. Watch full episodes on the NBC 10 Boston YouTube channel. Corrupt people will always run for office, but we have to stand up to them. When a local journalist—

If officers do something that's against the law, we're going to write about it.

We began getting allegations of violence.

Nothing's more dangerous than the truth. These stories really got them angry. It was a complete madhouse.

It cost us everything.

I knew they didn't like us. I had no idea they would talk about killing us. From producer Rachel Maddow, Killberry Print, new documentary now streaming on Peacock.

In the summer of 2024, police in Manassas Park, Virginia showed up at the door of a young mother named Mamta Kafle Bhatt. Police officers asked her husband, Naresh, where she might be. Their conversation was captured on police body cam. Uh, we're looking for, uh, Miss Mamta Kafle. Yeah, she, like, uh, on Tuesday— uh, Wednesday, she left, and then she says she gonna go either New York or Texas. At that point, Mamta had only been missing for just a few days. But her friends and her family were convinced something sinister was going on here. And they organized rallies outside the police station, calling on investigators to take a closer look.

We have been working literally around the clock since August 5th to put pressure on the police and get tips generated.

3 weeks later, Naresh was arrested for concealing Mamta's dead body. He went on to be charged with her murder. Naresh has pleaded not guilty. His defense team says there's no proof she's even dead. Mamta's body has never been found. Now, after a series of delays and legal battles, Naresh Bhatt's trial is finally getting underway. Dateline producer Maryann O'Donnell has been following this case very closely. Maryann, hi.

Hi, Laura. How are you?

Great. So before we get into the nitty-gritty, give us a sense of just who Mamta was.

Right. Even from her photos on social media, she looks like this vivacious young woman, 28-year-old woman. She's originally from Nepal, but she is a pediatric nurse, and she's really admired by her colleagues. She is married to a man named Naresh. He's an IT consultant. They've been married about 3 to 4 years, but they're about to celebrate the first birthday of their Young daughter. And that's when really all this begins.

So what prompted authorities to do that welfare check when police show up?

Yeah, it's really her friends. Her colleagues from work are like, wait a minute, suddenly she doesn't show up. That's— that is not Mamta. First of all, she's going to be reliable, dependable. She's going to be here. But also, she's so excited about the daughter's birthday. I mean, that's The daughter's all she talks about. They're like, where is she? Something is wrong. And they immediately go to the police.

So police go to the home, and they talk to Naresh. And he said they were separating?

So what he says is that they had been having trouble, that she just took off, destroyed her phone. But other than that, he doesn't seem to be overly concerned. And he's saying this to the officers as he's holding his soon-to-be 1-year-old. Daughter. Just that, you know, she took off and don't know where she is.

Did the police officers seem concerned?

They said, listen, if it— if you could try to get in touch with her, let us know. But other than that, they just pretty much left.

Now, Naresh did report mom to missing a few days later, and this is a pivotal moment because police could have just taken his word for it. She's an adult, she's not vulnerable, there's nothing to suggest something sinister or foul play. But then the officers start digging. Why?

Well, really because the friends, her friends, are saying, listen, we know she was unhappy in this marriage. She claimed he was abusive to her, at least verbally, if not physically. But here's another thing. So, he files the missing persons report, okay? Um, and then he goes a few days after that, goes on social media and he says, you know, thanks everyone for, you know, trying to help find Manta. And then the message ends with, I appreciate your unconditional support and hope to get help down the road in future days. Take of that what you will. What?

If your wife has gone missing and you have a baby at home, in future days? There are no future days.

It's right now.

So red flags right there.

Where is the sense of urgency in finding your wife? And that really tipped off police as well.

So, as you mentioned, her friends are putting a ton of pressure on investigators, right? They're holding rallies, um, they're handing out flyers. And we should say that the police said they were keeping things close to the vest on purpose, not to tip their hand, which is not unusual.

Of course.

We've started to really see the prosecution's case in these various pretrial hearings. What do they say investigators uncovered about Naresh's movements around the time of Mamta's disappearance?

They have found a couple of key things. One is that water usage in the home spiked for 1 hour. I mean, an incredible spike for 1 hour on July 31st, around the time prosecutors believe she was either killed or just after she was killed. But here's something else. police also find that he has been seen buying knives and cleaning supplies. So— and we're talking like a day before that spike in water usage. So, what's going on there? They also have video that they start finding of Naresh traveling around town and throwing out dark bags. plastic bags in dumpsters and trash compactors.

In just random places in town?

Random places in town. And in fact, in one, it was a donation bin of clothing, they're able to retrieve what looks like a bath mat. And it has tested presumptive for blood. Not clear whose blood that is. Now I mentioned about the water usage. Dogs— a sniffer dog came in the house. It could see there was a presence of blood. So what's starting to take shape is this man, to police, has killed his wife. He has now dismembered her in their home. He has put her remains in several bags. He has gone around town to dispose of the bags.

What does the defense say? How do they explain why he's moving bags around in various random locations?

They really haven't. I mean, what they're saying thus far is, excuse me, there is no body here. You don't have a body. You can't say this woman is dead. Therefore, our client should not be facing trial for her murder.

What do prosecutors say the possible motive would have been here?

They're not saying that yet. But one thing that has been reported was that in the months leading up to her disappearance, Naresh's electronic devices show searches related to starting life anew without her. They're general searches, but prosecutors are gonna be saying, listen, this wasn't just a sudden argument that this couple had in the heat of a moment. They may be trying to argue that, no, no, this is premeditated.

So, Naresh has been behind bars for a long time now. The trial was supposed to happen last year. What happened?

He's been saying that he needs more time for his defense. In fact, I think he just recently was saying, no, I'm not ready.

Sure. He's trying a couple different delay tactics. He was even trying to get the judge kicked off the case and recused. Yes.

He said, basically, he thought she was biased against him, and he wanted her to recuse herself. And she basically said, yeah, I'm not gonna do that.

Not gonna happen. Obviously, jury selection is a big undertaking. That selection process began this week. Maryann, how's it going so far?

It is a high-profile case. So, finding jurors, people who are not familiar with the case, don't have a bias, toward it is kind of a Herculean task. And the judge is concerned, very concerned, because she— though she's not sequestering the jury, she has had strict rules in place about their cell phones. They have to turn off their notifications. They can't be having sudden headlines pop up.

You see the judges struggling with how to do this in the modern age where everybody—

Oh, the job is so much more difficult.

Well, they're bombarded with images and stories and headlines and push notifications. And so it's interesting to see a judge be that proactive. It also sounds like Naresh has been proactive, coming up to sidebars with his attorneys to listen in.

Oh, yes.

Oh, he is very involved in his defense.

Well, it's great to have you on it. Maryann, we're going to keep following this one. It's fascinating. Thank you for your coverage.

Thanks so much, Laura.

A few hours after we taped this conversation, a jury was seated and heard opening statements. We'll have more on that for you next week. Up next, former American Idol contestant and convicted murderer Caleb Flynn speaks at his sentencing. Plus, an inside look at the new Netflix documentary, The Widower: Till Death Do Us Part.

Monday on NBC, the new season of The Voice has arrived. I'm so excited! Fan favorites Adam Levine and Kelly Clarkson are back to take on 2 new powerhouses, the legendary Queen Latifah.

The queen is in the house.

And country superstar Riley Green.

Riley is super charming.

He is a whole vibe.

Can we put that on my chair?

It's gonna be a wild ride. The blind auditions continue on The Voice this Monday on NBC.

Welcome back, everyone.

This week, instead Instead of doing our usual Dateline roundup, we wanted to bring you up to speed on the final chapter in a case we've been following from the beginning: the murder trial of former American Idol contestant Caleb Flynn. Last week, a jury convicted Caleb of murdering his wife Ashley and staging the scene to look like a break-in. They found him guilty in less than 3 hours. On Monday, Caleb was back in court for his sentencing, and we actually heard him speak for the first time. Then it was his daughters' turn to give their statements. Joining me now to tell us what they said is Dateline producer Marissa Meyer. Hey, Marissa, let's start here with Caleb.

Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for having me. So he was incredibly emotional from the start, and he addressed pretty much everyone in his life, starting with his 2 young daughters.

I have so many thoughts and dreams of raising you And see you grow up to be mighty women of God. But unfortunately, I can't. That's why I'm sorry.

Caleb also addressed his parents, and he apologized for the life that he's going to miss out on by going to prison.

I'm sorry I won't be able to have our morning coffee and devotions. Not yet. I'm sorry I can't gather eggs with the girls. Not yet. I'm sorry I can't take care of you both yet. I'm sorry I will miss so much. But know I love you with all my heart and think you are the greatest parents in this world.

At the same time, Ashley's family is there too. Did he have anything to say to them?

Well, Ashley's family, they had sat through days of testimony when Caleb's lover, Aaliyah Botner, Or had read text after text message that Caleb had sent her in which he said he hated his wife, Ashley. He called her names and expressed a desire to kill her. So that must have been so heart-wrenching for them. And in his statement in court, Caleb, he apologized to them for his behavior and the things that he'd said about Ashley.

As horrible as those things were, they want you to know, whether you believe it or not, I did not or do not mean them. I do not hate you. I love you all.

Now, Marissa, on the killing of Ashley itself, what did Caleb say?

So when it came to the murder itself, Caleb vehemently maintains his innocence. He was practically shaking as he said this. He even glanced at the prosecution table and said that he did not kill his wife.

Let's take a listen to that. I stand here before God, who is my ultimate judge. I am not lying when I say I did not kill my wife. I will continue to fight for my innocence as long as the Lord allows me to, as I did not kill my wife.

Ashley's family Also gave victim impact statements. What did they say? I know they focused a lot on the kids.

Yeah, their biggest focus was on Caleb and Ashley's daughters, Alyssa and Ava. And Ashley's sister, Kayla, and her brother-in-law, Matthew, are now raising the girls. Matthew said Ashley and Caleb's daughters visit their mother's grave nearly every day, and sometimes they even lay on the grass next to her headstone just to feel closer to their mother.

And the kids were not there in court, Alyssa and Ava. but they actually wrote letters addressing Caleb, which were read out loud by their grandmother, Ashley's mom, and brother-in-law. That must have been just gutting. It really was.

And I think something to remember too, Alyssa and Ava are 12 and 10 years old right now. So they're also at an age where they have a real sense of the loss of their mother too. And in her letter, Ava addressed Caleb as Daddy, but she asked him how he could have done this to her mother.

She was my best friend. I miss her so much. So, so, so much. You have no idea. I cry and cry every day, and my heart breaks to see the people I love hurt. I've seen images, pictures, and videos of you everywhere on YouTube. My heart aches to see you hurt. But then I think it was your choice. It was your choice to have an affair. And it was your choice to kill the only mother I've ever had. Unfortunately, that was a choice that cannot be erased, even though I really wish it could.

Caleb's other daughter Alyssa didn't address him as Dad. She called him Caleb, and she asked how he could throw away his life for, quote, a girl half his age. And she also had some pretty— I would say pretty starkly honest words for him too.

You truly don't understand how much you hurt my life, and I wish you could feel the pain I have been through. Something so tragic, and to know that it was my father, was just shocking. You made me feel like an idiot thinking that I could trust you. But God has been working through me. And I have changed. And through all of what you put me through, God is gonna work something out for good. And by the way, I don't plan on coming to see you. Alyssa Flynn.

Marissa, what sentence did the judge end up imposing?

So the judge sentenced Caleb Flynn to life without the possibility of parole for aggravated murder. And the judge also ordered Caleb to pay $20,000 in restitution for Ashley's funeral expenses.

It's such a heartbreaking case. We're gonna keep an eye out for any appeals. Marissa, thank you so much for catching us up.

Thank you so much, Laura.

For our final story this week, we are taking you behind the scenes of the Netflix true crime documentary, The Widower: Till Death Do Us Part. Produced by Library Films and NBC News Studios, the documentary unpacks the story of Thomas Randolph, a Las Vegas man accused of orchestrating the 2008 murder of his wife, Shanann, And then gunning down the hitman he hired to kill her. But Sharon isn't the first of Randolph's wives to die in mysterious circumstances. Part of what makes this documentary so compelling is the dynamic between Randolph and Dan Slepian. He's the senior investigative producer at Dateline who spent 15 years investigating the case and interviewing Randolph more than 10 times. It's a journey he documented on video and audiotape. And believe me, you cannot look away when Randolph and Dan are talking.

Who in America has stood trial facing the death penalty twice, 20 years apart?

I would absolutely agree with you.

And again, you must remember, I didn't kill anybody.

And joining us now to tell us all about it is Dan. Dan, welcome to the show.

Hi, Laura.

Hi.

Okay, so first off, I think congratulations are in order. I know you're not comfortable being the subject of all of this success because you're the reporter, right? You're used to just being the investigative guy, but you have to take it in a little bit, right?

A little bit, but the reality is, it was certainly never my intent to become part of the story. My objective was to observe and document a homicide investigation as it unfolded. But Thomas Randolph is the one that changed that. You know, most people accused of murder, would run from a guy like me. For Randolph, it seemed to be a lifeline of sorts. You know, this is a guy who has a certain kind of charisma and charm that hides a real menacing nature. And so, I think what he was trying to do was to suck me into his narrative. And I was aware of that the whole time.

Well, it's interesting you would say that, because that was one of the things I was gonna ask you, is whether there were times where you You did feel like you were a mark. But before we get to that, we gotta start at the beginning. The timeline starts on May 8th, 2008. Thomas Randolph calls 911 to report the murder of his wife at their home in Las Vegas. Take a listen to some of that.

My wife's been shot, and there's a guy in my house with our son.

I just— Where is your wife in the house?

She's in the hallway in the house, in the bedroom.

So what was Randolph's initial version of what happened?

His version has never changed since that night. What he told police, and what he has always said, is that he was taking his wife Sharon out for a Mother's Day dinner that night at a local casino. They came home, he let her out of the car first, she goes in, he follows in with the car, and he says when he walks in to that door, he sees Sharon dead at the other end of the hallway with blood coming out of her head. He sees a masked intruder. He reaches into an office that he has off of a— off the hallway. He grabs a gun and says, as the intruder is running past him, he shoots him 5 times and kills him.

But there were red flags, shall we say, for investigators early on.

There were. Well, first of all, the intruder ...was actually his handyman. Police came to believe that Randolph hired his handyman to kill his wife, and then ambushed him to make it look like a botched burglary, because they were gonna share the proceeds of a life insurance payout. But there were some problems at the scene. The scene was not aligning to Randolph's version of events. He said that he started shooting in the hallway. All of the bullet casings are in the garage. None of them are in the hallway.

Right.

There was a bullet in the intruder's head, yet the mask he had been wearing was taken off, and there was no bullet hole or blood on the ski mask. Why would he have taken off his ski mask? And for me, the biggest question when I started evaluating his story is, he doesn't run over to his wife. She's lying there on the ground bleeding, and it takes him a long time. before he runs over to his wife and makes sure she's okay. To me, that was the first red flag.

So, you have all this incredible access, and you are actually sort of a fly on the wall.

It was kind of a remarkable experience for me. I mean, I've been doing this for 3 decades. Never in my career have I documented a case from literally every perspective. So, I was embedded with the detectives. I was with the prosecutors behind the scenes. I was with defense attorneys behind the scenes. I was with the defendant behind the scenes. I was with the victims' families behind the scenes.

The first time you meet Randolph in person is when he got arrested. Describe that moment.

It was very odd because I had been speaking with him on the phone for about 6 months. But it was 5 o'clock in the morning in Utah, on a freezing cold morning. He was in his boxer shorts after being tased and dragged through the snow. And And I said to him, hey, hey, Tom, it's, you know, it's Dan. And he was like, hey, Dan. You know, like, there was this, like, odd familiarity because we had been talking on the phone. But he never said to me, you know, what are you doing here? It was like, it was like the middle of the evening. But I was like, do you mind if I just ride in the car with you? And he's like, yeah, sure, come on.

Did he know all along who else you were talking to, like investigators?

Thank you for asking that. And I think it's a very important point because both sides knew that I was talking to the other side, but I never told the detectives what Randolph told me. And I would never tell Randolph what the detectives were telling me.

How do you balance not wanting to give somebody too much attention, but at the same time, there's something that you have to get to the bottom of?

Right. It is a very difficult thing to do because— and my job is to remain neutral. That's a hard thing to do when I have been with the victim's daughter for 15 years. and have seen and witnessed from the front lines exactly the kind of pain and torture she's had to go through as a result of her trauma. Because I met her one month after her mother's murder. She was 7 months pregnant at the time I met her. By the time Thomas Randolph went to his second trial, her daughter was about to turn 16.

Hmm.

And that was a big part of my motivation, was that I never wanted the fascination with Randolph to eclipse the women whose lives were lost around him, and the families he damaged, Colleen at the center of it.

Job well done.

Thank you.

It's an incredible story. Everyone should check it out. The Widower: Till Death Do Us Part. It's out now on Netflix. Dan, thank you so much for coming on.

Laura, such a pleasure to be with you.

That's it for this episode of Dateline: True Crime Weekly. Be sure to check out Lester's new podcast series, before and after, his conversations with people whose lives were transformed in an instant. In his latest episode, he speaks with history professor Rebecca Schofield, whose life was turned upside down after a TikTok influencer falsely accused her of masterminding one of the most high-profile crimes in the past decade, the murders of 4 University of Idaho students in 2022, a crime Brian Kohberger later pleaded guilty to.

It felt extremely terrifying to have someone that hyperfixated on me and producing that level of content about a character that bore my face and name but who was not me.

You can find that now wherever you get your podcasts. And to get early access to future episodes ad-free, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, you don't want to miss Josh's all-new 2-hour episode about the investigation into an Oklahoma woman's disappearance and the secrets police and armchair detectives uncovered along the way.

There was no stopping.

You had to keep going.

It was one of those, but wait, there's more.

Watch Heartless this Friday at 9:00 PM, 8:00 PM Central on Dateline on NBC. Thanks so much for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummings, Caroline Casey, and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Veronica Mazzei is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is our senior executive producer of Dateline.

Have a good day, everybody.

Friday night on an all-new Dateline, when her roommate suddenly vanished—

You were worried about her?

Yes, I was.

The mission to find her began.

We called ourselves Talena's Army.

Nobody was off the table.

I said to look for poisoning.

An all-new Dateline, Friday night at 9/8c, only on NBC.