Transcript of Botox Poisoning and What Your Esthetician Isn’t Telling You | @jamieanneaesthetics

How old are you? I'll be 42 this month.

42? Do you have anything in your face right now? Any injectables? Nothing. How did you get Botox poisoning? What happened?

I went home days later and started doing Guasha on my face. What happened was I pushed the Botox into my lymphatic system. I could hardly get out of bed.

What is going on with Vital Farms eggs?

How is it possible that these eggs are available in every single grocery store nationwide? They claim that they're pasteurized. They're lying. As a society, we need to be upset about this, and we need to make sure that we're doing things that challenge these stores. If it was a perfect world, each town would have its own farm that supplies that one grocery store, and we would all be buying from that. That's what I want to change.

Since 2013, today's guest worked as one of the most sought-after estheticians in Hollywood, getting dozens of celebrities red carpet ready. Jamie McGuire is a revolution evolutionary figure in the world of skincare and health. Serving as both a skincare specialist and gut health nutritionist, Jamie has dedicated her career to transforming how we perceive beauty and wellness. As the founder of Jamie and esthetics, Jamie provides clients with personalized skincare solutions that go beyond traditional methods. Her holistic approach integrates skincare with gut health, offering a comprehensive path to lasting beauty and well-being. Jamie is also the author of Healthy Skin, a practical grocery and recipe guide designed to nourish your skin from the inside out, and the acclaimed Healthy Skin 90-day program, guiding members through a three-month transformation that addresses both external skincare routines and internal health practices. This program stands as a testament to Jamie's commitment to holistic health and her innovative approach to skincare. So let me tell you something about Jamie. She is not afraid to challenge the status quo. She has a mission to expose the shortcomings of big food, big pharma, and Big Beauty. Her work is stirring up the industry in ways that are both controversial and impactful.

Once you see what she looks like on the Real Alex Clarke YouTube channel, I'd say it's working. Jamie is one of my favorite follows on social because she is constantly challenging me to think critically, whether it's about beauty or food. We have two episodes a week now, and that is only possible because of generous listeners like you. Send a tax deductible donation to support the show through the link in the bio or help the show for free by leaving a five-star review. We just launched a massive line of Culture Apothecary merch, our first merch since the rebrand. I've got a weekly wellness planner to help plan routines and meals, as well as a gorgeous Embroidered crew neck, glass tumblers and glass straws, hats, and more, all with the message of healing a sick culture. Link in the description and use code Alex Clark for 10% off. Please welcome licensed esthetician and gut health nutritionist Jamie Maguire a. K. A. Jamie Anesthetics to Culture Apothecary. You're an esthetician who worked in Hollywood getting celebrities ready for the red carpet for years. And your top tip is to not wash your face in the morning?

Accurate.

I've been trying this, Jamie, and I think it's working for me.

You think? How long have you been doing it?

I've been doing it now for a couple of weeks, and it's helping with my extreme dryness.

Well, naturally. I mean, don't you I don't know if that logically makes sense?

I guess. Is it drying me out? Yes. Okay, why do you tell people not to wash their face?

Well, it's just a simple reason. First of all, it's something that I didn't do for the longest time, so it just boils down to something that I tried and then started talking about This is 20 years ago, maybe, that I just didn't wash my face in the morning. Then I started thinking about it. It's like, okay, am I sleeping on a bathroom floor somewhere? Am I camping outside? Why am I cleansing in the morning? I have these great serums on. I'm super hydrated and moisturized. I have all this my glazed donut look at night. That's nice. If I actually don't even do anything in the morning, it's almost like I have my skincare in the morning. People might argue thinking that you have all these oils and dirt. I'm not a dirty person. My My bedsheets are clean. I just cleansed my face at night and I just slept. So it's a little bit of sweat and a little bit of oils that produce overnight, which are actually what your body should naturally be using as moisturizer. So why strip it down?

Okay, I'm hearing you. So my question is, when you wake up, are you doing any type of toner? Are you doing a serum then moisturizer? You're putting no new moisturizer on?

No. I do a whole skincare routine for the morning. All I use is just filtered water with a cotton swab, wipe down my face, and then do my normal routine. So it's serum, moisturizer, SPF makeup.

Did you always connect skin health with gut health, or did you just get radicalized on that down the line?

Radicalized down the line. I think it makes sense, obviously, to a degree. But where I'm at with it today is a completely new phase.

Tell me about that. Where did you start out and how did you get to where you are?

I started out... I went to esthetic school. I was a high school dropout. I I did homeschooling and got my little at-home degree. Then I just needed to figure something else out when I was, I think I was 17 when I actually applied for beauty school in Reno, Nevada. I went to school, and I couldn't really get down with school back then. It was just like I wasn't super motivated. I didn't like the products that they were using. I just felt like I needed to go live life a little bit. I moved to California, cut to I needed to get serious about my next steps and career. I was working in nightlife forever. So I wanted to revisit this because it's something I was always really into. I was into my own skincare. I was seeing my own aesthetician at the time and super passionate about the products that I was using. Everybody wanted to know what I was using. So I went to school out in Tucson, Arizona, because my parents retired out here. And I went to the U of A campus, the Aveda School on the U of A campus. So I felt like it was a little more official than just a standard three-month beauty school.

It was three times the price, three times the amount of time. But it was something that was way more motivating for me. And so I just dropped everything in LA, focused on school because it was something I really wanted to give full attention to and not have distractions of LA and whatever. So I was living on a retirement community with my parents and driving an hour to school. And then I didn't like the products at Aveda. They're not terrible, but it still wasn't something held up to my personal skincare routine that I was already doing. So I actually wouldn't let them practice on me. They wouldn't be able to use me as a model when we had to do facials because they didn't want the products on me. And we had to do reports that would show the comparison sense between Aveda and, I guess, drug store products. People would go and do Clean and clear or Neutrogena or something, and I would compare it to my product line. They would blow it out of the water. And I was just like, Listen, I'm just here to get my license, and I'm going to keep it moving because I already know of what my intention was, was skincare, and it was skincare.

I had way more of an interest in a dermatologist side of things rather than a spa facial. I never wanted to massage your feet while you had some weird jelly mask sitting on your face. I thought that was just so weird. Why am I touching your feet and then coming back and touching your skin again? And with this really relaxing music, I was like, no, I want to clean out your skin. I want you to get results. Pampering is one thing, and I think skincare is another. So for me, I that my intention with it was not going to really align with what they taught in school. So I made my own way with it.

So how did you start working with celebrities? Do you ever share who some of your clients were?

No. I mean, well, the one I'll share, in my opinion, a celebrity that we just talked about earlier was Lauren Bostik, who actually got my career started. So I will give her all the credit in the world because as soon as she started to come to see me and was posting about me, my books were full. And this is when I had my actual skincare space out of my apartment. So So it was actually just out of my apartment for years before I actually moved into an office.

When did you start becoming obsessed with gut health in all of this?

When I went through it, when my gut was just going through the worst issues, and then my skin was starting to be completely changed because of it. From what I'm used to, it wasn't the worst case scenario for what some people deal with, but for me it was. I'd never dealt with skin issues before. And so my gut was just a disaster. And I went through two years of trying to figure out what was going on. And through that process, I would be seeing clients and we'd be talking about, because like I said, it's not like a spa facial. We were just quiet. We all talk. We were all like friends, and we'd catch up and we'd talk about what's going on. So many correlations between what I was dealing with and what they were dealing with, with their skin issues, my skin issues. And it was this aha moment of, wait a second, this is completely related to what's going on in your gut. What are you doing for your gut? This is what I'm doing. I would just pass on this information.

What What were your skin issues and how did you know that they were connected to your gut?

Because it was brand new and because it was the exact timing of when I was dealing with all these gut issues. So my gut issues were like, bloating, like painful bloating. Like, anything that I would eat, I would have brain fog fatigue, completely regular bowels, like nothing was ever regular. Hot limbs, hot, like really tense joints, feeling almost like you had arthritis. Like, just stuff that I could tell was related to the gut and it was just affecting everything. And then my skin would just have these cystic big breakouts that would come up every two weeks. And they were just under the skin, painful on my cheeks. Not just once that time of the month. I'm very used to a breakout once in a while. Things can pop up or human. But this was clockwork, every two weeks. And it was just scarring my face, getting so many dark spots, and I couldn't get them out. It was just brand new for me. I'd never had cystic acne, so to speak.

When you're talking to your clients about the connection between what's going on in your gut and what's showing up on your face, and they were all being like, Oh, my gosh, this is happening to me, too. I mean, did that just spark this interest for you? Like, this is what I need to be doing is combining being an aesthetician with being a gut health expert.

100 %. And once I got my gut healed and my skin was all... Skin is just the bonus, by the way. When you get your gut healed, your skin looking amazing is just the bonus to that, to you being healthy, to your body feeling better. So I really wanted to go further with the gut portion and really implement it way more into my practice with not only meal planning, but this is when I dove really deep into the seed oil part, when you got into all different aspects of grains and gluten. I was already gluten-free for such a long time. To go through this phase where I actually had to see the difference of what grains were doing. I was eating quinoa for the longest time. I took that out. Things got better. I had to go through the low FODMAP diet so many different times that it has to be really specific to the person. I think everybody's going to be really different with what triggers their gut response. But for me, I couldn't have garlic and onion for like two years.

I can't. I'm not supposed to be having garlic, and I keep on having it anyway.

Well, I mean, if you feel okay.

That's the thing.

That's the thing.

Some of these foods that are coming up as irritants, I don't feel any different. But allegedly, they're doing stuff to me inside. I don't know. I don't feel any different when I eat them. Now, some things like eggs, I can tell an immediate difference. I'm starting to feel sick, nauseous, all kinds of stuff. So to me, that makes But I'm supposed to be avoiding dairy. It says cow's milk is an irritant for me, and I'm like, you got to be kidding me. You know, right? The raw milk.

I love raw milk. I can't have it either right now. But it's not that it's bad. First of all, let's be very clear. It is not that raw milk is bad. Unfortunately, we weren't raised on this. Our guts have gone through hell and back, considering all the things that have gone on in the food industry, toxins, our hormone imbalances, stressors. If our gut's not able to tolerate something right now, it's because we have to get it healthier and healthier and healthier in order to be able to have these things at some point. We also need to get to the bottom of our microbiome and what's going on specifically with you, with me. We need to figure out those exact markers. What is happening right now, I feel like with generalized testing, and I consult with people so much that are just like, Oh, I've done bloodwork and everything came back fine. It's like, it's not going to be in the bloodwork. Bloodwork is based on averages. This is based on standard averages in America. And guess what? America is super unhealthy. Those averages are going to be really low. You're going to come back looking like you're a rock star because you're basing it on a super low standard of health.

So when you test the gut, and like you just said, you did your Dutch test, that's one amazing way to test your hormones, the gut test, you need to test your poop. That's how you get to the bottom of what's going on inside your body, specifically. There are other tests out there, too, like the Viome test or at-home ones that people are like, Oh, I did this, and they said to avoid red meat. Mine said, When I did Viome, said to avoid red meat. I'm like, Again, these are general tests. Tests. They're not super specific lab scientific tests. They are putting you in a category with you're either in the green, you're in the yellow, you're in the orange, you're in the red, and you're just somewhere in those categories. And this is what's recommended in that category. So it's not specific to you. Get specific. And we all, in my opinion, need to be testing our guts once, maybe twice a year, no matter how you feel. You need to know what's going on inside. I healed my gut completely, and all of a sudden was having some weird reactions out of the blue, and I waited a month seeing if it was something that I could switch up and fix.

No, nothing got better. And then I did another test just to see what's going on. I had a parasite. Got rid of it.

How did you get rid of it?

Well, it's protocol, obviously. It was supplement. And by the way, that's another trend where people are getting way too aggressive with these parasite cleanses. It's like, if you don't know you have a parasite yet, just relax. We all have a little bit of some parasites and bacteria going on in our gut. It's par for the course. But let's relax on the cleanse. You could also do more damage sometimes. So be very careful.

Now, while we're on the subject of poop, have you done a colonic yet?

No, I don't believe in them.

Why don't you believe in them? Because this is the next thing I'm obsessed with that I really want to try.

I think it's fine to try. People do get obsessed with them, and it can mess up your microbiome. You're flushing everything out. You need some of that. You need your good stuff still in there. I think if you're backed up or something, maybe just to get it moving is one thing. But people that are in their mind thinking, I'm cleaning out my system all the time, it's not good. This is how I got my gut sick, by the way. Oh, really? Not through colonics, through herbal laxatives that I was taking for years because I loved having my colon cleaned every morning. It was like that. It was like a colon cleanse every day. I messed up my gut microbiome for sure by doing this.

What is it about your anti-aging philosophy that is different from the standard advice that we're typically given from estheticians?

Oh, God. Well, I don't agree with chemical peels. I don't agree with invasive lasers, invasive lasers. People get this confused. Invasive lasers are things that can cause barrier damage, things like the CO₂ laser, where you get this crazy crust of skin that comes off. You're going to cause barrier damage. Now, if you're 60, 70, go for it. Your barrier is a different stage at that point. It's not going to necessarily have the same effect when you're young. I see these young girls, 20s, 30s, getting chemical peels once a month, like clockwork. They think it's doing so much good, and yet they're going out in the sun. They're making their skin so much more sensitive over time. They're causing more hyperpigmentation. They're causing more barrier damage, which is way harder to reverse. You just want to nurture your skin and be super gentle. And again, when I talk about logic, think about the skin on your face, on your neck, on your chest. It is literally the most delicate skin of your whole body, and yet we're burning it off. We're putting chemical burns on our skin. Now, again, this is to each their own. There's some people out there that have really intense scarring and damage that is It's like, what would I prefer?

Barrier damage and to diminish more of these scars? And I completely understand that. Or do I have really nice skin? I'm just being a little too superficial. I just want to get rid of a few brown spots. I don't want to put in the work with proper, consistent skincare and doing the little things to make sure that I don't get more sun damage or make sure that I don't eat the things that are going to cause more sun damage. I just want to go get a chemical peel and just burn my skin off. It's like, you had really nice skin. Let's just feed that skin. Let's nurture it. Let's keep healthy.

Have you seen these Gen Alpha girls going into Sephora and putting retinol on their face at eight years old and that whole trend?

I've heard of it. I can't watch it because it's disgusting.

Well, most of the Sephora's now are locking up their Drunk Elephant skincare brand. Oh, really? Because that's what they like. I think it's because it's so colorful that the girls are like, Oh, this is for my age, but it's just for adults. What would happen to 8, 9, 10, 11-year-old girl using retinol on a consistent basis?

I can only imagine that their skin is going to really thin over time, that they're going to have barrier damage, that they're going to cause more hyperpigmentation. I could even say they make their skin more sun sensitive, which could bring up issues of skin cancer. It's also just something that could be really damaging overall to your health. I mean, retinol can affect the liver as well. Oh, really? Yeah.

So are you anti-retinol?

I'm anti-retinol with an O. I use retinaldehyde.

There's a difference. Okay, wow. Okay, we have so much to talk about. Are you drowning in student loan debt? Do you feel like there's no way out? Are you discovering that your whole family is affected by this? If you have private student loan debt and are behind or even in default, you got to call my friends at YreFi. Yrefi refinances private student loans that others won't touch and provide you with a custom loan payment based on your ability to pay. They can reduce your monthly payment and your total cost. Plus, they don't care what your credit score is. Yrefi is not a debt settlement company. You'll receive a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else and a pathway to making all the stress and worry come to an end. Just give them a call at 888-502-2612. That's 888-502-2612. Or go to yrefy. Com. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. Com. If private student loan debt is wrecking your life, it doesn't have to. Take it from me. Call Yrefy at 888-502-2612, or go to wyrefy. Com. May not be available in all states. What signs will show on our face if there is something going on in our gut?

So many. I mean, breakouts are one, but it's really inflamed breakouts, mostly. We all can get breakouts on them. We are human. I think people really need to relax about the few breakouts they might get around that time of the month, We all get them. It's more of these inflamed, congested areas that just look irritated. They are painful to a degree. Eczema, rosacea is also an internally renal issue, also external as well.

What about milia?

Milia is going to be more... It's not necessarily gut-related. It's going to be more about your imbalance with your skin care because sometimes really heavy topicals, or if you're stripping the skin down way too much, those skin cells can really borrow underneath that layer of dry skin. So it just creates this little pocket. So you have to get those, obviously, removed. I've helped a lot of clients in LA with really intense milia around the eyes. We get at it. We have to extract those ones out. That's the only thing where I think it's important to go to a specialist to get those removed and then make sure you're doing the proper skincare to avoid them.

What is our gut microbiome and why is it important to get that under control of our skin? I mean, just I don't know that I've really had anyone walk us through the gut microbiome before.

Well, I mean, it's essentially just your environment, your gut environment. So it's all your bacteria, it's your pathogens, healthy and bad. So it's basically like a little garden that you have in your gut that is either going to grow and be nurtured, and it's like a regenerative farm down there, or it's going to be wiped, clean. It's going to have a whole burn situation where you're literally burning down all the pastures because you're mistreating your gut, or it's going through all these issues, or It's being taken over by bad bacterias. So it's important to have a balance down there of all the things because they're all working together. Hence why regenerative farming is so important and why it all works together in harmony. It's the same thing with your gut. It's literally like a little mini planet down there.

If you do not heal your gut, but you get facials once a month and you are super diligent about this high-end skincare routine, what is somebody's success rate going to be realistically? Zero. Explain.

Well, I mean, if you are getting facials once a month, and that's your one reliant source, and you are dealing with something like dysbiosis in the gut where your bowels are all over the place, you are bloated all the time, you're eating crap, let's say you're eating a bunch of processed foods, a bunch of seed oils, eventually that will show in your skin whether or not it's already happening or whether or not it's going to happen. It will also age you faster. So if you don't When you have all of these things working together, it will affect everything overall. Your gut also affects your hormones. When your hormones are off balance, which we talked about also for you, your hormones are off balance, and the gut is also affected by that. It's just all hand in hand. You want to make sure that you're doing things that work together. One does not exist without the other. You have to have a healthy gut to have healthy skin.

Tell us about your diet, like breakfast, lunch, snack, dinner.

Well, this is going to be... I'm dealing with something called MCAS right now, so I'm very specific with my diet. What's that? It's called mast cell activation syndrome. This was brought on after I got Botox poisoning. It actually basically makes you feel like you're having an allergic reaction to specific things that are high in histamines. You have a histamine reaction. I know how to heal myself, and I'm going to heal myself. There's people out there that deal with this for years, and they cannot get better. I know these things, and so I research them. I make sure that I'm doing everything to a T without falter because I want to feel better. So my diet is I want to say, six things that I eat total.

Okay. Six things total. That's all you eat. I think so, yeah.

I don't eat eggs right now because with Epstein bar, which is also another factor of MCAS, and it's also part of my genetic, I did a whole genetic test that came back with that I might have Epstein bar. So I'm holding off on eggs at the moment. Eggs are not bad. You have to deal with this, too. I eat ground beef, breakfast, lunch, dinner. I will have steak dinner, depending on if I had ground beef or not. I'll have zucchini because it's seasonal. I'll have apples. I will have some strawberries. I will have garlic and onion. And I have some condiments sometimes, like a spicy mustard. And I have grass-fed butter.

And you don't get tired of it?

Absolutely, I get tired of it.

Okay.

I like the honesty. Absolutely, I get tired of it, but I'd rather feel better. And I'm almost 90 % better with what I've been dealing with. And I'm going to keep going until I feel 100 % better. And then I'll slowly incorporate other things. I already have started to slowly incorporate things and been okay. I have My boyfriend makes these really amazing almond flour cookies. Almonds are high in oxalates. They can spike the histamine response. I've had them. I do fine with them. That's my little treat once in a while is I'll have these little healthy cookies. They're just almond flour, maple syrup, vanilla, baking soda, sea salt.

I didn't know that about almonds and histamines.

Well, they're high in oxalate, so some people can have reactions. That's why I've avoided them, but I'm okay with them so far.

How long have you been eating this About three and a half months, specifically that group. Okay, so what about morning and evening skincare routines?

Oh, you want the full run down?

Full thing, like every product, everything.

Well, I'm going to gatekeep my products. They have to come to me to figure that out. Okay. I would love to give all this extra promo to the product line, but now they can come to me. My mornings are wiped down with water, filtered water. Then I do a little Spritz. It's a peptide mist, not a toner. Then I do an antioxidant serum and a stem cell serum. Then I do a moisturizer, and then I do a tinted SPF, which is my makeup. No eye cream? No eye cream in the morning. Okay. No, I just do it at night. Nighttime is cleansed, double cleansed sometimes, It depends on how heavy my makeup was. I'll give the shout out to Bioderma. I use Bioderma, myceler water, just to remove the mascara underneath my eyes.

Okay, that's what I use also.

Yeah, I love it. Same thing with the peptide mist. Then I do the retinoldehyde Serum. And then I do a Vitamin A Serum as well, mix in like a little cocktail. And I do two different moisturizers, a cream moisturizer and then oil on top where I just press it in. And that's actually an overnight moisturizing treatment. And then I do a little ice Serum.

What's your skin type?

I am very balanced right now, so I don't even have too oily or too dry. But keep in mind, I've been doing this for 15 years just on myself.

That's literally my dream. I am so dry. It's like my skin just drinks stuff up.

Well, you might have a little Just the adjustment that needs to be made. You just started with the no cleansing in the morning. Yes. Keep with that. It'll balance more and more and more. Are you using a toner? No. Good. Are you using a scrub exfoliant? No. Chemical exfoliant? No. Good.

I use retinol. I like retinol, but I don't do it every night. I do it maybe twice a week. Yeah, that's everybody.

Why don't you pause that? Because Why don't you try retinoldehyde?

Because then I start getting sabaceous filaments and things on my nose. It's the only thing that gets that texture away.

Okay, here's what I'm going to tell you.

Or I like a BHA toner just right there on my nose once in a while.

Here's a red flag for you to look out for. If your skin starts to react by not using something, that is a red flag. I can stop using my serums at any point in time. My skin is not going to show signs of seborrheic glands and breakouts, and I'm going to get all red. People say this to me all the time. If I stop using it, I'll break out.

Okay, so then what does that mean? What do you mean?

You shouldn't be on something that's so dependent. You can't have your skin so dependent on something. That's why I talk about the skincare that I use, because your skin should only be fed and nurtured. It shouldn't be dependent on something. It's like a steroid.

This is the thing about Jamie. I told her before we started rolling that she's one of my favorite Instagram followers because you're always challenging me, Jamie. She's always challenging me. I think I've got it right, and then she's like, No, you I'm going to start doing this. And I've learned so much from you.

Well, you do have it right. Your intentions are right. I think there's just tweaks.

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Okay, now this I've been dying to ask you, especially as an aesthetician. Is there such a thing as preventative Botox?

I would say yes. And that's controversial because I obviously just dealt with Botox poisoning, and I'm not a big advocate of it anymore. But I also don't want to be hypocritical. I got Botox for 10 years. So I do think that it played a role in reducing fine lines that are not set in my skin. I have movement today, but I don't have set in wrinkles today.

How old are you? I don't normally ask a guest that, but how old are you?

I'll be 42 this month.

42? And do you have anything in your face right now? Any injectables?

Nothing. Wow. I did back in the day. I've had my filler dissolved. I did not get a lot of filler to begin with, by the way. I had like, structural filler. So it was like a little bit in my nose and in my temples thing. It wasn't like puffy cheeks and a bunch in my lips. It was like that was back in the day. I tried that back in the day and had to have a lot dissolved. Made a lot of mistakes. So as I've aged, maybe for the past five, six years, I've done less and less and less, and especially in the filler department. But I've always tried to be weaning off of Botox. I would try and wait as long as I could, get less units. I had already been setting myself up to not be getting Botox. I didn't want to be reliant on it anymore.

How often were you going towards the end?

Probably every four months.

Do you remember how many units you were getting?

Well, I got a lot in comparison because A, it's like decade dosing. In your 20s, you're going to be around 20 units, 30s, 30 units, 40s. I was up to 40, and I also had them in my neck. It sounds like a lot, but essentially my forehead, I think, was 20 It's around the eyes, I think maybe like three, three.

So this is interesting. This is really going to get people on edge in my audience. They've been dying for me to talk to somebody who is warning about the toxins of Botox. But you're saying, I got Botox poisoning, and I think the reason I look so good at my age is because I had been getting Botox.

Sadly, I think it has helped.

This is exactly verbatim how I feel.

Yeah, I think it's helped. It's not, do I agree with it? I never, by the way, recommend clients to go out and pursue Botox as their only option. I am very real with my clients about what will get rid of a wrinkle versus what's your realistic expectation with this? We have to be very honest with ourselves. There's only certain things out there that are actually going to do that. Skincare is not going to get rid of a wrinkle. If you have a miracle cream out there that promises it's going to get rid of a wrinkle, it's bullshit.

But can they diminish fine lines, the deepness?

Hardly diminish, right? If you start a great skincare routine, even if you already have fine lines and wrinkles, your skin is going to look better overall, which your overall complexion will make you look better. It will make you look younger. You will feel better. Doing things like Guasha, I just started facetaping. There are options out there that you can do to prevent wrinkles from forming and to do the pro-aging side of things. You have to be honest and realistic about the fact that Botox exists for these specific reasons, that they actually were getting rid of these wrinkles. I don't think anybody should be doing it now knowing what the repercussions are.

Okay, so you would say avoid Botox entirely?

I say avoid it, yes.

Okay, how did you get Botox poisoning? What happened?

Well, I was getting my routine, everything. Same people I go to, I had so many people reach out and be like, Oh, my God, your provider should have done... I was like, First of all, when you go into your same provider for 10 years, we're shooting the shoot and getting my quick injections. We're not talking about after care. We already know the after care. But me, I don't really... I'm not thinking about things the same way because I'm just, again, it's like a habit thing. So I went home days later and started doing Guasha on my face. What happened was I pushed the Botox into my lymphatic system. Oh, my gosh. But everybody's like, Don't get massage afterwards. No, guys. At the end of the day, I've been doing this for 10 years. I wasn't thinking about it. It's not like, days later, after you get Botox, I'm not sitting there being like, Don't touch your face. No, it's not something that was on my radar. I just was sitting down watching TV, pushing Botox into my lymphatic system. And a few days after that, I was basically bedridden for two weeks. This was right before I moved to Oklahoma.

I could hardly get out of bed to get packing. I was having panic attacks. I didn't realize the correlation with the diet and MCAS. I was eating things that were super high in histamine. So I was having like... I would feel like my throat was closing up. It was awful. Ariel Lauri, who I had just done her podcast, I was reaching out to. She had gone through Botox Poising, and she was talking about her symptoms and similarities, and I was like, Oh, my God, this is what I'm dealing with. I could not believe it. And it's just like, of course. I liked getting Botox. I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that I didn't.

But wouldn't it be fair to say we know what caused... It wasn't just getting injected, and then that was it. It was doing gouashat and pushing it into the lymphatic system.

My situation. This happens to people all over the place. This is not like, you can't get Botox poisoning if you don't do Guashat.

What have you looked into and found out about Botox? Do you feel like it's a huge toxin that women should not be getting?

Yes. The thing is that we all know that it has black box warnings, so do my implants. Do we think about these things before we get them? Or are they super highly impressed upon us when we're in the appointment about to get Botox? They just have you sign something. Nobody's reading all that fine print. Nobody's actually telling you and saying they're being like, Do you realize that there is a X % chance that this can happen to you and these are all the side effects of it? I'm sure there's some that do that. But in LA, we're not going over all the Blackbox warnings.

For those that don't know, Aria Lauri hosts the Blonde Files podcast, and she told her whole story of Botox poisoning. Both of you, she was living in LA, you were living in LA. Do you think it's just something about the culture in LA that everybody was gaslighting you guys about, Oh, it can't be the Botox. Oh, for sure. Because everybody doesn't want to admit it because everybody gets it.

For sure. My doctor was one of them. Wow. Absolutely. He was just like, You've been getting it this entire time for how long you've been getting it, and now you just got poison. It doesn't make sense.

But it makes sense to me, though, because it's like our toxin bucket overflows.

Sure. But here's the thing, whether or not mine would have been then or later, who knows? I can definitely say that I did it to myself to a degree. To a degree. But when I posted about this and the flood of DMs and comments that came in from people that didn't do gouash or massage afterwards that just have straight up botox poisoning and horrible side effects, that's real. And that's where my eyes were open. I I never really saw it before. I never heard about it. All my friends were getting it. You never heard of friends? Did you have any friends that were like, Oh, yeah, I got Botox the other day, and I have this really bad shake in my hand, and I can't sleep? No. I'm also wondering if there's a new formulation out or something that's more toxin. I don't know. I will never go back to it and test it. That's one thing. People ask me all the time. No, I'm not an idiot.

Ariel is saying she might try a little bit in her arm or something.

She did, and that's okay. She already did try four units after she it done, and she had a bad reaction again. So now she's trying to do other alternatives, too.

Okay, so let's talk about alternatives. For somebody like you or I who has gotten Botox before, but now we want to transition into not getting it, or somebody that's wanting really powerful anti-aging effects, but they don't want to do Botox. What have you tried? What are you liking? What do you think is a huge waste of money?

Well, I love the face taping right now. It was really frustrating when I first tried it.

I have had it sitting in my cabinet for three months, and I've been too scared to try it.

It's so annoying. It takes time. I do a different formation on my forehead every time, and I'll tape it wrong, and I'll have a crease in the morning. I'm like, This is defeating the purpose. But once you get it down and you figure out your mapping on your face- That's what I don't know. I feel like I'm going to tape it wrong. You have to figure out on your own. It's trial and error because I tried to watch the videos, and I'm like, My face is so different than that person's forehead, so I had to mess around with it, and you waste a bunch of tape. But I do like it. I thought it... It does take time, they say. So you have to... It's like a workout. You have to be committed committed to do it every single night for 30 days to see a difference, right?

Yeah, and I'm committed.

I'll try it. I'm not big on doing this, by the way. At some point, you just got to accept it. I'm almost 42. I'm going to look my age at some point. I want to try to avoid that, but it's exhausting. It's exhausting worrying about this stuff. So that's something I'll try. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how long I actually keep with it if I actually continue this on until my 50s.

What about some of these other things, like Botox alternatives, like Xeomin?

No, it's the same I mean, they're still going to have possible effect. I'm not messing with anything.

It's just like Mr. Pibb, Dr. Pepper.

Exactly. It's still going to be a toxin in your body. People say microneedling. I find microneedling to help with skin texture rather than necessarily wrinkles.

Okay, so I was thinking about going and getting microneedling this month. Should I do it? Yeah, I love microneedling.

I think microneedling is great. I personally don't like when people do microneedling with numbing cream because you don't want that in your skin and in your system. Some people can handle it, some people can't. I think something like with PRP, with your own platelets is really beneficial. It's It's just expensive, and it's something that you got to stay on top of to really see the results. I've had it done once. It thought it was great for the minute.

If you don't like chemical peels and microneedling is maybe hit or miss, what intensive anti-aging treatments do you like for women in their 30s and 40s?

I mean, like I said, it's just the face taping and being realistic about being okay aging at some point. That's the thing that I think I'm working on myself with that, and I'm working with my clients with this as well, with the mindset. Why do we think that we can't start looking older? Why are we chasing this so hard? It's hard for us because we're somebody who is used to Botox, right? So now it's like, whoa, where's my face? And What happened? How do I fix this? But I want to fix that in my mind. I don't want to worry about those kinds of things so much that we're obsessed with it. And we're doing an hour nighttime routine every single night. I do my red light therapy. I do my little nontoxic, nonchemical peel once once a month. That helps to just keep my skin bright and tight. Do I think it's going to keep me from ever getting a wrinkle? No. Let's be realistic. What's really going to help you not get a wrinkle? Probably nothing.

It's really disturbing that most of the meat and grocery stores isn't coming from America. And as we learn from Jamie, may not actually be pasture-raised, grass-fed, or even organic. It's very hard to find farmers and ranchers you can trust, and sometimes it's nice to just have someone else do the work for you. If you'd rather or just have meat shipped to your door, go to goodranchers. Com. They are a great alternative. Good Ranchers is all-American wild caught seafood, Midwest farm, chicken, pork, and beef from farmers and ranchers who share your conservative beliefs. Right now, they're doing a presidential promo in honor of it being an election year. You can subscribe to any Good Ranchers box and get a free add-on for four years. Choose from chicken breast, ground beef, bacon, or salmon. All-american, all-delicious. Plus, with my exclusive code, Clarke, you'll get $25 off your first box plus free shipping. That's goodranchers. Com with code, Clark, to get a free meat add-on of your choice for the next four years and $25 off at goodranchers. Com. Good Ranchers, American meat delivered. Are you a fan of beef tallow for the face?

No. Why? Because I don't think it does enough. I love it for the body.

I feel the same. Can I tell you, every day I get DMs from people like, I want to send you beef tallow. I want to send you beef tallow. Same. And I'm like, no, thank you.

I don't want them wasting it on me. I appreciate I appreciate it. That's what I say.

I say the same thing. I'm like, if I have, I don't know, something crazy going on that I need healed on another area of my body, sure, I'll try it. But when it comes to my face, I think it does nothing, less than nothing.

And by the way, it also sits on top of the face. It's also pretty poor clogging as well.

That's exactly.

Yeah. So love all the TALO companies. You guys are amazing. Although I did here, you can actually just start a towel company with a super generic, cheap synthetic towel. It's now becoming the new thing. So beware of the TALO that you're getting because you can just AI a whole business model with ChatGPT and make an entire TALO company and just share it up. Chatgpt TALO? Seriously. I love it in theory. I love the concept. It's just not going to really do much for your skin.

I don't mind it for on my legs and stuff.

Listen, if we were raised on it from birth with raw milk and had some tallow for our face, we'd be doing great today.

What should we know about the high-frequency beauty wand? Is it a need?

I think it's a need. And this is more specific to, let's just say, breakouts.

Explain what it is, too, because some of my audience won't know.

Yeah. So it's like an ozone machine, essentially. So it has gasses inside. So when you turn it on, it actually oxygenate. So it helps to bring oxygen to the skin. It also helps to kill bacteria underneath the surface. So if you have a cystic breakout coming out and you just zap it three times, you hold it there for another 60 seconds, you take it off, it really minimizes and can completely eliminate your breakout. So I think it's the breakout. It's such an It's been around forever, by the way. It's an old-school technology. When I went to school back 20 years ago in Reno, this was one of the technologies that we learned about. It's super old. It hasn't been changed.

Okay, so it's this buzzy it does a little zap on your skin. It's not expensive. No. It's very cheap on Amazon. This is like 50 bucks or less. So it's not an expensive tool, but it has attachments, almost like a crawling iron. And one of them is like a comb and you run this- Yeah, you can get to stimulate hair. Electro frequency thing through hair. Do you think that it helps?

The hair part, I'm a little... Maybe. I do like it just because it stimulates. If it is helping, let's hope it does. But it can be drying. That's why it's great for blemishes, and that's why I'm specifically talking about it for blemishes. If you know what you're doing with it, with the certain probes and run it over your skin with some serums on, you can actually infuse them a little bit deeper. But you can dry your skin out when you do it too much, but that's why it's great for drying out the blemishes. So you don't want to dry your scalp out either.

I usually, right around my period starting, right before my period starts, I usually get a couple under the skin, cystic small pimples in my jawline chin. Okay, so I should definitely be using it for that. That's interesting about it drying your skin because I'm like, Oh, this is like, I should just go all over. But really, we should do targeted spots.

I would say if you don't know what you're doing with it, just use it for targeted spots.

Should you hover it a little above the skin or touch the skin?

You can do either. You're going to have less pain and less effect when you hold it to the skin. I personally like to hold it to the skin because I don't want it as extreme. If you hold it further away, you actually do get more of the benefits. So further away from your skin, you actually see the little lightning bolt pop out. It sting because you're actually singing your skin a little bit, but it is more effective that way.

Yeah, it's like a little shock. You brought up red light therapy. Tell me about red light therapy, the benefits, who should be doing it, why?

So it has a few things. I mean, not only can it help with things like your circadian rhythm and your sleep, which is something that I really like to use it for personally, other than just the skin benefits, can boost collagen. It can help generate cell turnover. In general, you want to be careful, though, if you're someone with melasma, you don't want to use red light therapy as much or at all, to be honest. You have to gage it, do test spots on that. But I find it to be beneficial. I don't find it to be something that's game-changing. I just do it because that's part of my routine to do it a few times a week.

Are you doing just a mask or full body?

I do both. I have a mask, and I do the red light therapy sauna blankets as well.

Oh, yeah. The sauna blankets. I'm really this is the next thing, the PMF mat.

Yeah, the penth mat too. Yeah, I love the penth mats.

Okay, so everybody's talking about that, and that's my next big Should I splurge? Shouldn't I?

Well, higher dose should just send you one.

I know. I really like higher dose. They've not. That's a fun shout out. Morpheus 8, Splurge or skip.

Okay, so Morpheus is something I do have personal experience with. This is interesting. I have never touched it to my face. I will not touch it to my face. I have done my neck and my stomach for skin tightening purposes. I think it did a pretty decent job when I did have it done. I've had it done eight times. I've had it done a bunch. But at certain points, I don't think it did anything. Now, here's what I... I listened to a podcast a while ago, and this was an aha moment for me. At some point, your body is not going to produce collagen fast enough. So now, if your body doesn't produce that collagen from that injury, you're I'm just causing more injury and you're not actually getting the benefits of it. So as we age or if you do these things too much, your body is not going to respond in the way that it did when you first had it done and thought it was amazing. I've also heard, not personal experience, but from other people that they've had their fat burned out from their face when they get it done. So their face is a little more sunken because it can burn fat.

No, that's what I'm scared of. I want to keep- There are settings.

Yeah, you keep the fat face. This is what keeps us looking youthful. Fat in the face is youthful. But yeah, that's why haven't touched my face with it. Some people get marks on their skin from it because it's radio frequency. You actually are jabbing these needles in and the radio frequency could sometimes create little dark spots with the grid from the machine. I would have dark spots on my It went for months. Months. They're gone. But I'm just saying I would not touch my face with it for these reasons.

Okay, so we're skipping Morpheus 8, probably. For the face. For the face. Okay. Are we all going to regret getting filler?

You can get it dissolved. I do think we overdo it. That's why for years was doing less and getting more dissolved than I was adding in. At one point, I was doing all the things. I was doing the nice plump cheeks and all the things. I realized my skin underneath my eyes started to be more heavy. It's like, Oh, no, get rid of this right now. Whatever this is, I want it out.

Do you blame Kylie Jenner for this?

No, I don't want to. I feel like she got rid of all of it. What's that one photo?

She did not get rid of all of it.

But isn't there a photo that showed her sunken face? I'm like, That's my cheek. That's my face. Because that's what happens. You actually get rid of it, and all of a sudden, your face goes back to normal. When you get those sunken lines right here, that's a natural face.

Why do you think she looks so old?

Does she look... I'm not big on the pop culture stuff. I refuse to follow the Kardashian's only because it's hard to watch.

It's pretty brutal. It's hard to watch. It was trending all over TikTok, and she ended up crying on an episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashian's just being like, I can't win if I don't get any of this stuff. I look terrible. If I do, they say I look old.

Well, see, that makes me feel bad. I don't want that. I know.

I feel bad. But She said, I've dissolved half of it. She's like, And I'm like, Dissolve all of it. I mean, I just say, Dissolve all of it. Let's see where you're at and then maybe start over. You know what I mean? Or not at all. Or not at all. But she might feel without it for a little bit. And she can hole up in her house for three weeks. Totally. You know what I mean? No one has to see her. Go through it alone. If I do this, everyone's going to see. So it's like, I don't have that luxury, but why not?

Yeah, I mean, I think they definitely set a standard at one point. I'm hoping that they're setting a new standard to a If she is starting to get some of it removed, if she's going in that direction, then I applaud her for it.

What do you think the newest trends are?

There's so many trends that always have been. That's where I differ from almost any aesthetician. I don't fall into the trend trap. I just can't do it. And also I'm not willing to compromise my own skin. So it's like, I'm not going to try this. I have so many people that reach out to me, What do you think about this? What about that? I'm like, I don't know because I haven't done it. I only speak on things that I know personally and professionally with my clientele.

Is it buckle massage? Is that how you pronounce it? Bucal fat? Bucal fat? Mm-hmm. Does the going inside of the mouth, basically, and doing these massaging movements on the face, does that help?

I think they can totally help. I've never gotten one done because, again, I like to maintain the fat in my face, so I don't want to get that chiseled look, which is right where that Bucal fat is. I think that if you get it done a lot, you could probably see the results. This is the thing about once a month treatments. How much are they really doing for you versus what you're doing at home? If you go in and get this massage once a month, you might look great for a few days, and then what?

That's fair. But you like guasha?

I like guasha. I don't do it too much right now because I have PTSD.

I feel like I can't get the hang of it. I have a guasha stone, and it's confusing to me. Are we supposed to barely touch the skin or be pressing?

I dig into my skin. Okay, that's what I like. Because I want to stimulate the muscle, and I want to get that fascia. I want to make sure that I am pulling that tissue and making it stick. I go hard.

That's what I thought, too. I But when I went and got a facial last time, the girl I asked for gouache, she's like, Okay, yeah. And she's doing it in, I mean, barely touching my skin. I was like, Are you even doing it? What's going on here? And she's like, Oh, you're supposed to barely touch the skin. That's how it works. I was like, I don't think so.

I would just disagree with it. I don't know if there's a specific right or wrong way to do it that I can speak to other than I know that when I get into my massaging, when I would massage clients' face, I use knuckles. I get in there. It's like a deep tissue massage. Otherwise, what are you You're just moving skin.

What ingredients do you really love in skincare? You look for these ingredients, you're like, Those work.

I mean, retinoldehyde is the only one because I don't switch my skincare, so I just stick to the one line. I don't look at any other skincare products or ingredients. I mean, the one thing is alcohol, fragrance to look out for, but retinoldehyde is my tried and true.

But you're not always looking for vitamin C. There's nothing like that.

It depends on the person. It depends on what your skin needs are. It's so individualized. It's not just one serum for one person and everybody. It has to be very specific to the person.

What do you think the weirdest things are that you do in terms of your skincare or diet?

Well, my diet's pretty weird right now because considering how strict it is and specific, and especially when I have two ebooks that are my recipes, and it's just like, I can't even eat any of this stuff right now. They're still all healthy. It's like, I can't wait to get back to them. I do. This will be interesting. I use an electric... People ask me about dermaplaning all the time. Yes. I do not agree with dermaplaning. I use an electric razor on my face. Stop. A trimmer. Yeah.

I love dermaplaning.

If it works for you and you like it and you have no reactions, go for it. Me as a professional, when I had clients in office and they would ask if I do it, I don't because it's a major risk. It doesn't matter how good you are at it. It's such a deep exfoliation and you're messing with the hair follicle. A lot can go wrong, and you can create a lot of irritation in that area, a lot of irritation in the hair follicle. So I just avoid it altogether.

Here's what I'm doing. I'm doing dermaplaning in the same facial, and then they're going through and using... It's like a hydrofacial thing or something like that. They're infusing hyaluronic acid into my skin after. Thoughts.

You're doing a hydro facial.

Yeah.

Thoughts. Your skin is dry, right? Yeah.

But it feels great for the two days after.

It's like my relief. Repeat back what you just said to me. Stop it, Jamie. Repeat back what you just said to me. This is what I mean. It feels great for two days after. So what do I do? Stop getting them. Stop.

Okay, but I look so good after.

And then your skin's dry.

Okay, but it was dry before, so it's like, that's the only time I get relief. So it's dry either way.

You got to maintain the natural oils in your face. You have to just support them. Stop stripping them down. Hydrofacial strips, the little bottle that has all the gunk in it. That's some gunk that you need.

Okay.

I can't imagine what my hydrofacial would look like if I would probably have sludge in mine. But I maintain the natural oils. Your oils are healthy. You have a healthy diet, healthy lifestyle. Your oils are good.

It's like a cold blast of air, and they're saying it's like hyaluronic acid going into my skin.

I'm sure they are saying it. Hyaluronic acid is way more beneficial internal than it is external.

I tried taking some hyaluronic acid supplements. Do you think those really work?

I do to a degree. Okay. I think it helps.

I wasn't sure if I noticed.

I think your food, you eat meat. You're You're getting plenty of vitamins in that realm. Any amount that's going on your skin from, let's say, a HydraFacial serum or something that's being infused into your skin, it's not being microneedled into your skin. It's being blasted into your skin. It's not actually really diving super deep. If your skin's not breathing properly, it's not absorbing it properly. It's like if you're on the dry side, anything you put on top, it's just going to sit there. It's not absorbing.

I am so glad to have a professional on when it comes to skincare, because the thing that I just see contradicting advice on all over the internet is, should we be avoiding the sun like the plague or not if we're trying to avoid wrinkles?

No, I don't think so. I think that there is a very specific fine line, and I've talked about this before, and I think I haven't given enough background to it. More so what matters is the amount of time you are spending in the sun. Sun itself is not going to be necessarily the culprit. I think it's really important to get at least 10 minutes of sun exposure a day. No SPF. The face, neck, and chest are different. They are delicate, and we're also using products that make them more sun sensitive. We have to take that into consideration. I use a hat most of the time when I'm running errands. I use my visor. I'm always wearing a tinted SPF. Like I said, it's my makeup anyway, but there's always an SPF for my face. That doesn't mean that I shy away from the sun. If I get hit like this and I put my face out in the sun for two minutes, it's fine. It's not going to You build up a natural tan. You build up your skin's natural tolerance to the sun slowly. You get 11:00 AM sun, you get 5:00, 4:00 PM sun, whatever.

When you're on the off peak hours, not blasting, not laying out by the pool in Scottsdale. That's what I do.

I am a sun worshiper, which I haven't in about a month because I've just been busy, and it's also so hot that it gets to a point in the summer where it's so miserable that I just can't even go outside. But for a while, in the beginning months of the summer, especially, I totally do that. I look at the UV, when's it highest, and that's when I lay out. I love it. I love to bake.

Well, the thing is, you are probably building up a natural tan, too. If your skin can tolerate it without a sunburn, without sun damage, and you're not eating seed oils and things like that that create oxidative stress, then you're fine. Go and get your sun. I've had moments where I've done that, too. I do think that the anti-aging part is where that's going to be tricky. I don't think you should be laying out in the sun for hours at a time if you want to basically not create aging.

It's like, I'm just...

It's like, get sun for the vitamins. Don't bake in it. I'm in the dog house this episode. I'm in the dog house. Don't bake in it. Okay, don't bake. Or just use an umbrella.

Everybody is loving tretinoin. You do not. Why don't you like it?

Well, it's retinol, like I just said. So I don't agree with retinol. It's a synthetic form of vitamin A. There are so many skin issues that come with something like tretinoin. This is based on, obviously, my own professional experience with seeing client's skin. That's a mess from it. Another factor of what we talked about earlier, when somebody stops using it, that they feel their skin freaks out. Now it's become dependent on something. This is also a form of a medication. You want to talk about big pharma and stuff like that. This is just a push. Have you ever looked up the history of retinol? No. Where it comes from? Look it up on Wikipedia. Oh, my God.

This is What am I going to find? It's like it's tied to the occult.

Some twisted dermatologist that got in big trouble for human experimenting on prisoners. What? Look it up. Dermatologist created this, and they're twisted. Without going too far down that, but you'll Most of us have to think of it that it's not as recognized by your skin. So tretinoin, like retinol, has to convert to retinoldehyde and then convert to retinoic acid. So there's three conversions that it has to go through. When you do that, your skin has to go through a process, has to work really hard to turn it into retinoldehyde, and then has to work hard again to turn it into retinoic acid. It's just so damaging on the skin. That's what causes barrier damage because your skin is freaking out. It doesn't know what this is. That's why I see so many clients with red patches, dryness, super inflamed skin. There's, of course, all these people out there like, I love it. I've been on it for 20 years. Go for it. If you don't like what I have to say about it, by all means, continue using it. I have a laundry list of clients that have gotten off of it, are so happy that they did, had all these issues with it.

Let's just start with those that realize that, oh, my God, it is the Tretino and it is the retinol that's causing me these skin issues, and they stopped.

What is a glowing skin diet? These foods are going to help you glow from within on the outside for gorgina skin, as I like to say.

Grassified Finnish meat, ground beef steak, your choice, grassified butter. If you can tolerate raw milk, it's It's amazing. Maybe some antioxidants, some berries.

What about acne prone skin? Should they be drinking dairy?

It depends on what their guts going through. So I would, obviously, if they were dealing with acne, we need to figure out what's going on their gut. We need to test that first and then see if they can tolerate dairy. You have to listen to your body. If your body is having reactions to it, then you should probably look deeper and figure out what's going on inside and pause it until you get that fixed.

I heard a fascinating story of another podcaster. She really, really struggles lifelong with acne. And she is- Marie? Yes. Yeah, Mary Llewellyn from the Pursuit of Wellness. And she was talking about how... I mean, and she's like doing this. She's in this space, eats clean, but the acne would not go away. And she's cut out dairy. She's cut out gluten, all these things. And then they did this deep test, and then she had a parasite that was not going away. And she's married, and her husband and her were passing the parasite back and forth. And that's something like, so what's really crazy is that you could be doing everything right. Your partner, your husband- Could be messing with your skin. Could have a parasite that is being passed back and forth to you during sex that is causing your acne.

So frustrating.

That was the craziest thing I'd ever heard. I was on the edge of my seat listening to that podcast.

But that's why it's so important to get internal testing done. Even if you weren't having any gut issues, even if you think you're the healthiest person on Earth, you need to figure out what's going on because you could have caught that parasite. Wow. And no, her skin's a mess because her gut, remember?

So now he's getting the parasite's worked out and her so that they're parasite free and they're not passing it back and forth. And then hopefully, her skin is going to clear up. I'm curious to see. How do you feel about Accutane for severe acne people? No.

Severe acne people need to check their gut.

I would agree with you.

Yeah, I absolutely know.

But this is hard for people.

Well, what's harder, suicidal tendencies.

That's the thing. It's also destroying stuff, right?

It's destroying your microbiome. It's horrible on the liver. I mean, the laundry list could go on and on about Accutane. It's no secret that this is a really harsh drug. I've had a A lot of clients tell me that they did this back in the day because they just didn't know what else to do. Back then, we didn't know what else to do. Today, we know a lot more about what to do. It's just whether or not you want to put in the work to do it.

I find whether you're talking about Accutane or Ozempic, those types of weight loss drugs, you're taking those because you're going through emotional distress. Yes. And so when you tell somebody there's some sketchy stuff to be aware of with Ozempic, they get really, really defensive. When you tell them there is some sketchy stuff about Accutane, I mean, I don't know why we have to convince people of that. There's running PSAs on cable television like, Have you ever taken Accutane? You may be eligible for this lawsuit. But they don't want to hear it because it is a quick fix for a very emotional problem.

Oh, they come after me. For any time I post about, don't take Spiralactone, Accutane, Tretinoin, every time it rings alarm bells with people and it's like, why? Why does this bother you so much? Why?

People want shortcuts. They want the easy way out. They want shortcuts.

That's why. Because it sparked something in you that you know you could be doing something different and working harder, but you're choosing to go this route and you know all the side effects, and now you're mad that you're choosing the easy way out that's actually more harmful. Don't get mad at me about it. If that's your choice, that's your choice. I will support whoever wants to do what's right for them, and I will help you figure out how to get better later because you're going to need help later. You're going to have to fix what you damaged by taking these things.

We wonder why we so many issues. And then you learn that literally everything from mayonnaise to toilet paper has added sugar. Okay, joking about the toilet paper to just make a point. But I mean, everything. Ham and bread, even orange juice, are items that you think are healthy, but they're basically candy. And then we get PCOS, prediabetes, and we wonder why. My favorite juice is squeezed juice. It is the cleanest juice out there. No water, not from concentrate, no GMOs, no added sugar. Just literally Really, juice from the fruit, and it is so damn good. Squeeze juice is from a small family farm in California who share the same values as you and I. Not only do they have traditional juice, but now you can try their antioxidant lemonade. 100% juice made from lemons and pomegranates on their farm. Get a silicone ice cube mold, make some really beautiful flavored ice cubes or popsicles with that. The tangerine juice or green lemonade with spinach, cucumber, and pomegranate and lemon is so refreshing. Go to shop. That's shop. Squeezejuice. Com and use code Alex for 25% off. It ships cold to your home. That's shop. Squeezejuice.

Com and use code Alex for 25% off. We talked about ideal anti-aging routine if you're in your 30s or 40s or beyond. But what do you think the ideal skincare routine is for somebody in their 20s?

I think simplicity. I think a cleanser, a moisturizer, SPF, you can dabble in serums and stuff, but again, it's not going to be one size fits for serums. It's very individualized to the person and what's going on with their skin type. I think it's so much more diet-related and making sure that you're health-conscious about what you're putting into your body that's going to show on the outside. That's why it's just like, pay attention to things that could potentially be causing breakouts. I also think if you get on a really great diet routine and a skincare routine earlier on, that is the best prevention.

I just read something that said the Clarins Double Serum is the number two most popular best-selling skincare in the world. What do you think about the Double Serum?

I don't even know anything about it. Really? No. Again, 15 years, one product. Wow. No.

Holy crap. Yeah, you are loyal.

But that's the thing, though. Consistency. So when people ask my skin or they think that, oh, I look younger from my age or whatever. Yes, I can attribute some of that to the Botox. But I can also say I've been doing this routine religiously for 15 years.

And this is all on your website if people want to know exactly the products and everything.

Yes. But this is where, again, I don't recommend people just blindly get products. That's why I offer consultations. That's why I have my 90 day program because this is how you figure out what's right for your skin type and not just getting what the most expensive serum is.

It's fair. She's fair. I appreciate that about you. What tips do you have for preventing chest wrinkles?

I've worn a pillow for six years, maybe longer, maybe 10 years, honestly, in between my chest. It's like a harness. You sleep in it? I sleep in it. It's on my website.

This is something I've started to notice because I'm a side sleeper and it It's a little bit of a start and it freed me out.

Yeah, I noticed it, too. I bought these a long time ago, and then I made my own. It's called the Chest Pillow, and it helps to prevent chest wrinkles. Actually, I don't even bring my skincare down here anymore. Oh, really? You can. But I'm saying if you're still a side sleeper, that is not going to help much. You're still creasing that skin when you sleep.

It doesn't make you hot wearing that?

No. Okay. It's so cozy. I travel with it. I'll show you it. It's in my luggage right now. Stop. Oh, my gosh. It's my favorite thing. I mean, it's like a You know when you put a pillow, if you're a side sleeper, in between your knees? Sure. Yeah. It's the same feeling. It's like now all of a sudden... I think it's actually really good for ex-plant people, too, if they've had X-plants done.

You have breast implants.

I have implants, and I'm going to get them out.

You're getting them out. Why are you getting them out?

Because I think a lot of my toxin overload, the Botox poisoning, the MCAS, and my hormone imbalances are related to my implants and breast implant illness, I think. I mean, it's, again, like logic. I think this is a foreign object in my body. It's something that's plastic that's heated to 98.7 degrees at all times. How could that not be affecting me? I'm really sensitive, so I'm sure it's affecting me.

One thing that I really think is juicy about you on Instagram is you have taken on this persona of investigative journalist. You are calling out the greenwashed food brands and companies that are like, We're organic, we're pasture-raised, and you're like, Something fishy is going on here. What is going on with Vital Farms eggs?

I can't give up all my sources on this because I'm protecting the people that have provided me the information. But this was, by the way, something that I brought to their attention. This was a question that I had about Vital Farms. The reason why I started questioning it is because I'm always on the hunt for clients. I get my eggs from my local farm, and I always got really good eggs when I was in LA. But I always had people ask where to get eggs and what's the best egg? Everybody is buying VitaL Farms. They think it's the best quality version in a store. I'm thinking to myself, how is it possible that these eggs are available in every single grocery store nationwide? How? Because if they're pasture raised, and they're not corn and soy free, they don't claim to be, so it's not about that. They claim that they're pasture raised, either organic or pasture raised. I'm like, Where are all these chickens? Because that would be the most A massive chicken farm you would ever see in your entire life. They're all supposed to have 108 feet per chicken. That would be a state.

You'd have to have a state.

For the amount of eggs that they're selling.

For the amount of eggs. You're only thinking in the area, Oh, they're at this Whole Foods, and they're at that Sprouts, or whatever. You're thinking that area. Think about every single town, nationwide, in every single state, how many eggs that would be.

There's no way. It's impossible. How are they doing this? They're lying. But I mean, how did we get to this thing in the Whole Foods movement, real food movement, where it's like, Vital Farms is like the pasture-raised egg. Is it the branding? It's the branding.

It's the marketing. Again, they say the chickens have 108 square feet per chicken. They are pasture-raised. They paint this picture of perfection for these chickens in these lives. So of course, they've got a cute box. They're expensive. So people naturally are like, These are the best quality eggs. But then I talk I dig deeper and I find out that that's not the case, that they have stage farms. So you can go and visit a farm, and it's a staged farm. The same pictures that they sent me on DM are like a chicken photoshoot of chickens just having a grand old time. They're all separated. That is not the case. They are running 100,000 birds out of five farms.

How is that legal? Why are they allowed to do a stage farm versus where the food is really coming from? That doesn't seem right to me.

It doesn't seem right, but But there's still a farm, right? There's still a farm that's producing maybe 2% of those eggs. It's just a stage one that's a really small farm. That's why I asked to go visit their top five biggest distributors.

What did they say to you? They did not respond. They did not respond.

Yeah, left me unread.

Do you trust Whole Foods & Sprouts when they say that they have 100% grass-fed organic meat? No.

I have not been able to uncover the Sprouts one yet, but when I moved to Oklahoma and I went to Sprouts, and I went to the Deli case, and I saw these amazing-looking, beautifully marbled, two-inch-thick, grass-fed, grass-finished ribis for 25 bucks. I'm like, This is a gold mine. Took them home, was eating them for weeks, so excited that I found these amazing... I'm eating it. It tastes like restaurant quality. It's the best steak I've ever made. I've eaten grass-fed grass-finished steaks for years at this point, and I've got it from my local farm. This isn't it. There's no way that this is grass-fed grass-finished. There's no way. I know what they look like. I know what they taste like. The fat coloring's different. The meat coloring is different. I haven't uncovered it yet, so if you guys want to keep eating it, go for it. I stopped.

Have you tried asking them where they're sourcing their meat?

I did, and they gave me their whole marketing mumbo jumbo.

What's the thing about Tyson?

The Tyson chicken farm, the huge manufacturer of chicken in Purdue. They are the biggest chicken manufacturers, I believe, and they supply the chicken to Sprouts. If they package it in a big box and say, This is our organic chicken, just means they can give them feed that was sprayed glyphosate, apparently. They send it off to Sprouts. Sprouts repackages that and puts it in a nice green package, makes it look all healthy by writing organic in green. It's organic chicken.

It's always green or it says natural. People were so shocked.

They're like, But it's organic chicken. I was like, Okay. Says who? But why are you so swayed by something that just says organic? Why is it so shocking to people?

This is why people get upset is they say, they throw their hands in the air and they say to you, they say to me in my Well, then where am I supposed to shop?

Go look. You have to do a little more work. Go do research. I provide as much as I can. I provide insight. I provide different websites to check out, different suppliers. If you can't find it in your area, go find it. And by the way, if it was me and I was having a hard time, wasn't in the area that I was in, and it was a six-hour drive to a farm to get pasture-raised corn and soy free eggs and really good quality grass-fed grass-finished meat or chicken, whatever I wanted to get, I would be driving there once a month and stocking up.

So this is my answer. Is there like, well, then I don't understand where I'm supposed to go because we have been conditioned, our generation, the only place, and this is the whole problem, this is why the food supply chain is on the brink of collapse, that the only way and the only place that you can source food for you and your family is at a grocery store. I agree. This is where the problem is. I don't know who to trust. How do I know if it's actually organic? You go to the farm and you see for yourself and you ask the farmer the questions. That is the whole point. This is why I had AJ Richards He's a fifth-generation rancher last year. He told this whole story. He was like, If you don't know if it's organic and you don't know what to trust at the store, go to the farm. Because the only food that we really need to have isn't the stuff that you're going to get in boxes and everything. Your vegetables, your fruit, all of your meat, that's what you need. You go to a farmer or you go to a local baker or make your bread yourself, go to a dairy farmer to get your milk.

It's like, That's the essentials that we need.

It's more so, and listen, I sympathize with the hardships that it is, especially I'm not a mom. I don't have kids. I can only imagine how important convenience is. The thing is that we have to tip the scale. We have to start somewhere. As a society, we need to be upset about this, and we need to make sure that we're doing things that challenge these stores and make them be, A, more transparent. They can still be a store. Actually, source from your local farm then. Get your stuff locally. If it was a perfect world, Each town would have its own farm that supplies that one grocery store, and we would all be buying from that. That's what I want to change. When I was talking to my farmer in Oklahoma about this, I said, I now need to supply my own food, too. I'm relying on him, but that's his farm. I'm going to get chickens. As soon as I get back, I'm getting chickens to have at my house. I want to make sure that I can do it myself if I need to do it myself. Cows are next. I'm going to have my own set up.

If it's a financial thing, if it's an area thing, move I mean, there's options out there. It's how much we want to be lazy a little bit. It's how much we want to be reliant on believing a corrupt food system and how much we care about our health. You really do have to make choices and changes if you do want to feel better and make sure that you're going to be healthy long term. We can't just rely on Whole Foods and Sprouts.

Are you big on making sure that the skincare that you're using or the makeup you're using is clean?

Yes and no. There's good, better, best. There are some really bad products out there, fragrances and synthetic dyes and chemicals, whatever. Most skincare, active skincare, is going to have a form of a chemical in it, and so is makeup. You're not going to find... It's a buzzword to say nontoxic, right? I try to find the cleanest options. They're all going to have a chemical in them. It's not beef tallow. It's going to have something. And that's my thing. Yeah. It's not going to have nothing in it. It's going to have something in it that is- I want something in it. I want something in it, too. I want something in my makeup, too. To make a blush, to make a foundation. It has coloring. It's not from a plant outside I wish it was.

It's not- Now, I will say one brand, and they sponsor the show, and I really do. If you are like this, you are a stickler about clean makeup. Probably the only brand I've ever found is Adele Cosmetics. Adele? Have you ever looked into them? No. That is truly three ingredients. Oh, I would love to look them up. It's very interesting. The creator was very sick and stuff, and so she had to come up with something because all the makeup, all the skincare she was using was making her very sick. That's a fascinating brand, and it's beautiful, luxury makeup.

Is it foundation?

Yeah, everything. Foundation, blush, eye shadow. Look at it and just tell me what you think.

I'm so curious because it's very hard to find. It's different. That's my point. It's the clean makeup that I use and that I I would talk about often, is the better of the worst thing. Let me look.

I'm going to look here.

Yeah, tell me what's in it because I'm so curious how they're getting their coloring.

Ingredients. Fractionated coconut oil, Aero Root powder, water-washed, quarry-mined unbleached kale and clay, boron nitride, carnova wax, non-nanotitanium dioxide, iron oxides in all shades, and carmine. Non-toxic ingredients, no nanoparticles, no patrol products, no preservatives, paraben-free, long-lasting, not tested on animals. Great. Packaged in glass.

That's great. The glass thing is cool. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the blush. I need to look them up. I need to try them.

Let's look at cream foundation. Fractionated coconut oil, arrow root powder, unbleached korymined water, washed kale and clay, rice powder, boron nitride, the carnova wax, non-nanotitanium dioxide, iron oxides.

Not bad.

That's it.

That's great. Probably one of the cleanest ones I've ever seen.

That's what I'm saying. I thought that was interesting.

I've used Azara. That's the coconut foundation. They have a mango pot blush. I use their stuff.

Oh, really? Yeah. They're not bad. If there's a step or a product that everyone basically universally should be doing, what would you say for skin?

Cleanser and moisturizer are staples. If you can only do two things, those are the two things. But cleansing only at night.

Your skin- And I double cleanse at night.

Yeah, and that's fine. You don't even have to. It depends on how much makeup you're wearing that day, to be honest. A lot. Today is going to be a triple cleanse. But cleanser, moisturizer is a staple. Serums are more advanced. They can come later. They are going to be the heavy hitters, but that's where it's individualized. That's where it's going to be very specific to that person, their skin type, what they're dealing with, their goals. That's more for later if you want. Those two staples are very important. Not cleansing in the morning, making sure that you're maintaining your skin's balance, maintaining your skin's barrier, feeding your skin, not stripping it down. No toners, no scrub exfoliance, no chemical exfoliance, no chemical peels, no invasive lasers.

Okay, listen, though.

Do less. How about this? Just do less. Dryness.

I have anti-aging concerns now being in my 30s, and I really cannot stay in the sabaceous fillament build up on my nose. What do I need to be doing?

You're going to do less. You already stopped cleansing in the morning. You're going to stop getting your facials. No. You're going to stop doing dermaplaning and hydro facials. Also, what products are they using? Are they using the products that you're using at home? No. So you're now mixing and matching products and ingredients on your skin. Is that bad? I wonder what your skin's thinking. What's going on? Your skin is a microbiome, too. Same as your gut. You're confusing it. I'm in a personal attack. You're confusing your skin. Okay. And it's dry and you're going to stop retinol.

Oh, my gosh.

Let's see if you really do it and see if you actually get change.

But, well, I'm telling you, the buildup, it's so nice and smooth right now because I did a little BHA toner swip. You're ready to stop that. But I don't go all over because I'm too dry. So I just keep it there and it works like magic. It dissolves.

But it comes back, right?

Yeah. But those always come back. You can't get rid of some basically filaments, right?

Well, you're always going to have some blackheads, right? You're always going to have some congestion at some point, but you want to maintain that balance. The more that you take it away, it's just going to fill back up. So leave it alone. See how you do. Try to leave it alone and do less. Do less actives, which is the retinol. Do less of the stripping down your skin, hydro facials, the toner as well.

What do you mean about the razor thing that you're doing instead of dermaplaning? It's just a little electric trimmer. What a man uses?

No, it's pink, so it's not what a man uses. It's like, I think meant for eyebrow shaping or something. It's a very teeny, teeny blade. But yeah, and the same idea of what a man's trimmer- Because I hate the peach fuzz.

That's the other thing I love about trimmer.

And then I go down. Okay. Just down. You don't want to go against the hair. Okay. It just gently removes. It cuts the peach fuzz as opposed to actually cutting it straight from the skin. That's where you that irritation. If you don't get irritation, it's okay.

Does everybody need an esthetic? Does everybody need a dermatologist?

No. Nobody needs a dermatologist. I wish that estheticians were in the dermatologist space. I think dermatologists should be MDs, and they're there for skin cancer, mole removal, and things like that. I think dermatology should be esthetics to a degree. An esthetics needs to be completely redone. School needs to be redone. It needs to be based on working from the inside out. Estheticians should essentially be functional medicine doctors.

How do you find an esthetician like that? Me. Okay, so what services do you offer people? What will they find at your website? All that good stuff.

Two things. I have two websites. One's my main page for all my products that I recommend, consults. I do one-on-one coaching.

You just did one with a cute servative, and it's somebody that I had recently talked to or something.

Shout out, Alexa.

Then you said, Well, I'm going on a podcast tomorrow. She's like, Please tell me it's Alex Clark. Yes.

That is so cute. That is so cute. I loved it. She actually emailed me today and said, Good luck today. Very sweet. I have that website, and then I have my 90-day program. So that's jamian. Co, and that's the Healthy Skin 90-day program. So let's say you don't have time for one-on-ones, you just don't want to invest yet. You're like, I just want to see where to start and just do it on my own. The 90 day program is perfect. And it's 90 days, but it's meant to set you up for life. You get my new ebook in there, which is over 100 pages, grocery recipe guides. So you get your diet in help fix your gut. I give all my skincare tips, all skincare recommendations, myths, all the food stuff. You go into all the different qualities of food and why they're important. Yeah, it's a whole 90 program.

In your opinion, what is the best remedy that you would say to heal a sick culture?

Take matters into your own hands. Educate yourself. Ask questions. Please stop relying on and supporting food systems that are making us sick. Because ultimately, that is what is affecting our guts and it's affecting our skin. Just please have more power over your health.

That's a good one. What's your Instagram handle?

Jamie Anesthetics.

Perfect. Thank you, Jamie, for coming on Culture Apothecary.

I love the new remand. Thank you. It's so good.

I have not dove into the beauty world much at all. So this was something I was really interested in getting into with you guys. I've got several juicy episodes coming up, including an acne episode, getting into the weeds about Botox from somebody who works on the legal end of helping people fight corruption in the beauty industry. That's what I can say there. Look, I'm open to having my mind changed. I know that you guys feel like I'm not, but I am. Hopefully this Jamie episode proved it. I mean, jeez Louise, she was raking me over the calls. Don't forget our first ever Culture Apothecary merch has dropped. Link in the show notes, code Alex Clarke for 10% off. Each guest brings their own remedy to heal a sick culture every Monday and Thursday at 9:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 PM Pacific. I'm Alex Clarke, and this is Culture Apothecary.