Transcript of First Woman to Climb the 7 Second Summits ft. Jenn Drummond | Coffeez with Joe Shalaby New

Today we are sitting with Jen Drummond, an absolutely amazing individual. Check this out, guys. She is a mom of 7, a Guinness Book World Record holder working on her second Guinness Book of World Record accomplishments right now. She had a massive exit, on-course public speaker. She's got an awesome podcast and she's a multi-best-selling author. Please welcome Jen Drummond. Welcome to another episode of Coffees.

Hello, hello! Thank you for the intro.

Yeah, Jen, thank you for flying in. I mean, I'm just so blessed to have you here. Um, you know, you're such an accomplished— I would say young woman, but you're a mom of sevens and you probably have—

don't feel young anymore—

teenage kids. But you sure are young in spirit.

I am young in spirit.

And you know, you have such an exuberance about you, it's just You know, it's magnetic and there's, you know, it's clear as day why you've accomplished the things you've accomplished and you're as successful as, you know, I just made you out to be. So let's dive right into it. Um, I like to ask many of our podcast guests the same question, which is what's your morning routine?

Ooh, my morning routine actually starts the night before.

Okay.

So for me, the night before, I like to lay out all my outfits. I run through my day. So I like run, visualize it in my head, what I'm doing, what I'm wearing, how I'm feeling. And then when I wake up in the morning, it's like I already did the dress rehearsal and it's just time to go.

Nice.

Yeah.

And then the morning consists of, you know, you don't got a cold plunge routine or a—

I don't cold plunge in the morning. If I cold plunge, it's at the end of the day.

How do you stay in such great shape?

Yeah, I mean, I exercise every day for sure. But yeah, no, so I wake up in the morning before my kids wake up because I like that quiet time. And then I'll shower and then I'll start making them breakfast as they start rolling out of bed.

You're making food for 7 kids?

Whoever wants to get up and eat. Well, they either make like, they love morning muffins, they love eggs, or they love cinnamon rolls. So that's kind of what I mix between. And then I'll take them to the bus stop and then I get my day back to me.

Man, you're cooking for 7 kids in the morning. That's just—

Because it's when they're like groggy enough to think you're cool and they'll talk to you. They're not thinking like, what do I tell mom? What do I not tell mom? At that time of day, you get everything out of them.

Nice, I love it. Now, I want to talk about your story. So you have quite a magnificent story. You were involved in a severe car accident, near-death experience, and from that experience, I mean, like, you went from near death to climbing mountains. Huh?

Yeah, to near death to climbing mountains.

Yeah, climbing the biggest mountains. Definitely the biggest mountains. So let's just kind of talk, you know, talk about that, like How, how did you accomplish that? Like, what was the mindset that you had to really get out of the rut that you were in? You were in, you know, bad physical shape. After that, you were probably mentally, like, drained.

Yeah, mentally I was. That was probably the biggest part to heal, um, because every single time I got in the car, my heart would race. And I would drive down the highway and I would get next to a semi and I'd want to get as far away from the semi as possible because when I got in my accident, I was in an accident with a semi truck. But I just remember the car being totaled. I, you know, ended up being okay. But when I went to go pick up that car, I took an Uber to the dealership and then they gave me the keys and I was like, oh wait, I need to drive. And so for 45 minutes I sat in the parking lot negotiating with myself saying, if I don't drive now, the fear of driving is going to get bigger, so I just need to do it scared. So I did. I drove home 35 minutes, it felt like 35 hours, and when I got home, I took a nap for like 2 hours. That's how draining it was. And it took me 6 months. It was like almost exactly 6 months because my mom came to visit, and when I took her to the airport to fly home, when I got to the airport, I realized I made it all the way to the airport without freaking out once.

This is amazing. This is the longest I've driven without having my, you know, my heart or talking myself down or whatever else like that. And then eventually it just got normal again. But for 6 months it was doing it scared, doing it exhausted, doing it not excited. And then finally it disappeared and I was good to go. And now I can drive and not think twice.

So you went through that. How did you overcome that, that, uh, you know, worry, that scare?

Yeah, I think it's just exposure therapy. You keep putting your body in it and you keep talking yourself off the ledge, and you honor the fact that when I came home, I didn't berate myself that I needed a nap. I'm like, man, that was a lot, I need a nap. And I allowed myself to take a nap, and I was kind to myself during that process. And healed.

Now I've noticed like you're just not scared. You're a risk taker. Most entrepreneurs start off scared. What do you think entrepreneurs have wrong when it comes to risk?

I think you need to take a dance with risk. Okay, so for example, I had never slept in a tent before when I decided to take on this world record. And so when we looked at the mountains, we broke them down into what would be the most difficult, what would be the most dangerous, which would maybe be like my easier ones to get. And when we were building our plan, it was making sure that I got some of those wins early so I could use that momentum to get me through the harder pieces and build that confidence as I was climbing the easier climbs. So when you're an entrepreneur and you're taking on this risk, you need to build in wins. Into your day to have that momentum carry you through some of the harder times.

Now, you climbed, which mountains have you climbed so far?

Oh man, I've climbed a lot. So my first climb was a mountain named Ama Dablam, which is located in Nepal. Gorgeous mountain, amazing experience, still my favorite climb to this day. My second climb was Ojos del Salado, which is located in the Atacama Desert of Chile. Sounds exotic and exciting. It was miserable and horrible because when you climb a volcano, it's like climbing a pimple. You're on the feature in the desert, like there's nothing else to look at. I'm just dealing with sand, wind, and like monotony the entire climb.

And no beauty, huh?

No beauty because you're on the feature. So everything else is just sand and sight for as long as you can see. And when you're climbing, You could be climbing for 3 hours and you don't really have anything visually that's changing. So you don't really feel like you're making momentum. And when you're climbing on sand, you slide down half a step for every step you step up. And so it was just one of these climbs that I'm like, if there is a climb that has containers on the side of the mountain because it gets so windy, a tent will rip that you need to sleep in the container. I'm not doing that climb. Like, I'm not interested.

There was containers on that mountain?

There was containers on the mountain because it got so windy. Your tent would rip and then you wouldn't be able to survive.

Wow. Yeah, I mean, I've never— I've met mountaineers, I've never met a female mountaineer who's done these kind of like climbs ever, right? Like, you are, you are something else. And you know, entrepreneurs are a little crazy sometimes.

We are.

Like, you're like a little different than crazy.

Next level crazy.

You're like next level crazy. Like, where do you think that was birthed from? Like, I've never seen that or experienced that or heard about someone that does that.

You know, like, I embrace failure. Like, I think when you're an entrepreneur or you're at the top of your game, whatever that is, you are a constant reiteration of failure. And failure is just data points. You don't take it personal. You don't make it about yourself. You're just like, okay, this is what didn't work. I'm going to tweak a little bit and try to make it better. This didn't work. I'm going to tweak a little bit and try to make it better. You know, like, you look at MrBeast, who's famous for YouTube. Like his videos, they figured out the formula and keep tweaking them a little bit and a little bit to have them go as good as they go. If you have that mindset of this failure is feedback to make this better, you just want to keep making it better. And it's this addiction of like, how do I do it better?

Now, what do you think your greatest failure has been?

Hmm.

I mean, a lot of failures and tons of reiterations and Yeah. Climbing these massive mountains.

I mean, I think it's a death of a thousand paper cuts. I don't know if you're making one massive failure that causes you to bleed out. It's all these little teeny tiny paper cuts that are causing you to pivot or shift or move. So I don't know if one plays a bigger role than another. I do know I, on my list of life, I wanted to get my pilot's license. And when I started down that path I realized it was really boring and I didn't really enjoy it. And the entire time I was in the air, I was looking for a place to land if something went wrong. And it was really hard for me to shut that brain off. So when I came home, I was always looking for something wrong so that I could make sure the environment was safe. You can't do that with 7 kids because there's always something wrong. And so for me, I realized that's not something I need to pursue because it doesn't put me in a mindset to enjoy my life. And so I stopped pursuing that. And I think a lot of times those of us who are like fiercely competitive or achievement-oriented, we have a hard time letting go of things that we shouldn't really be doing.

Now, you know, having accomplished what you've accomplished, obviously you're, you're really legacy-driven. And what do you think— and you have 7 kids— so what do you think your legacy is for your kids? Is it having built this business, this massive business, and this exit? Is it being a world record holder? Like, you're, you're driven by legacy.

Yeah, you know, I think it is. Like, the mountains were just a space for me to explore my inner mountains. It was quiet, it was distraction-free. There was nothing that could keep me from my own mind and facing my own demons. And those have always been limiting beliefs. So I hope my legacy is if something's limiting you, it's meant to be challenged to expand you. So lean in.

Now, you're not just posting about it, you're actually about it. What is the next mountain you're climbing?

Yeah, so I'm going to go climb Denali in May of this year.

Is that going to be a world record holder?

Well, it'll be. I have 2 mountains left for that next world record. So I got the world record for being the first woman to climb all the second summits, which are the second highest point on each of the 7 continents. And so then for a lot of those climbs, I would climb the highest point first to get acclimated, and then I would do the second highest point because it was harder. And when I was filing with Guinness, they're like, hey, you have a couple more mountains and you'll have another world record. So I'm like, okay, well, if I'm this close, I'm going to go get those done. So Denali is one that I have left, which is the highest point in North America. And then there's one in Russia called Elbrus, which I'll do once it's safe enough to travel there.

Now, what's your next big idea right now?

My next big idea. I'm playing with ideas right now. I really love speaking on stages and just moving the crowd and helping them figure out ways to make whatever's in their head possible. I feel like maybe the next evolution of that will be some retreats where we go out in the mountains and just experience the struggle, because I think fear shows up, but it feels the same in our body. So when we learn to conquer it in different environments, we can carry that forward into an area that we're struggling.

How did you conquer fear?

I mean, I don't know if I've ever conquered fear. I think I just do things scared on a regular basis because it has a way of showing up in unique circumstances. I'm like, oh, here you are again. I thought we got rid of you. It's never disappeared.

So you climbed these mountains? I mean, you climb— because it's not just like hiking, right? You're climbing. So you're, you know—

yeah. And I had a fear of heights, which I didn't know I had when I got into this, because I can like look outside a skyscraper and be okay, or I can be on a chairlift and be okay. But when I was on a rope, like climbing a wall, all of a sudden I started to sweat and panic and freak out. So I came off the wall and I looked at my coach, I'm like, what's going on? He's like, you have a fear of heights. I'm like, I can't have a fear of heights. I just signed up for this world record. Like, I have to be able to get through this. He's like, well, the only way we're going to get through it is if we train it out of you. So I'd go back on that wall and I would go one handhold higher, and then I'd come all the way down. And then I go back up the wall and I try to go a handhold higher, and I'd come all the way back down until I eventually, like, worked it out. But if I haven't been climbing for a few months, I need to go to the climbing gym and work that fear through my body again because it shows up.

Just you talking about it made my hands sweaty. Sweat? Yeah, because I do have an immense fear.

Oh, I had like— my leg was shaking, I was like turning ghost white, I was like sweating, my hands were sweating. I came down, I was like, oh man, this is bad. I had never had fear manifest physically. I thought it was just a mental thing, but when it showed up physically It was horrible.

Yeah. How can I overcome my fear of heights? I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, it is just work and it is work every single day. I had to go every day because if I took a couple of days off, it was harder to get back.

Now, do you ever feel like success is like a costume yet you have to keep wearing or it's something that is always— it's just always transitional?

I think it's transitional. I think it's the human experience. Like, you get to have success in one field and then you want to try to have it in another field because you've already figured that game out. So it's like, how do I learn it in this arena or that arena? And that just gives you a broader aspect of like experiencing life and success we get to define. Like, I used to think it was just being on top of the mountain. And now for me, success is sustainability. Like, what gets to keep going even if I'm not here? What does this look like because I stepped into this arena? How am I shifting this industry or making an impact?

Yeah, I mean, like, you by all definitions would define success— 7 kids, climb the world's second highest summit, had, you know, living wealthy in Utah, having sold, having exited a company. I mean, that is, you know, the definition of having attained success. But, you know, for you it's deeper. You're now on to your next mountain. Now you're trying to move crowds, you're trying to speak on as many stages as possible and inspire people.

And yeah, you know, you're on to the next quest because I think success becomes significance. Once you've attained it. And so to me, significance is like, if I climb the mountain, who cares? But if I can help you climb the mountain, then I made a difference, and that's true success. So for me, I think we all have a mountain to climb. We're born to climb. You can't roll uphill. It's a choice you have to make every single day. When I climbed Everest, every single step I had to choose. I'm climbing, I'm climbing, I'm getting to the top. And so if I can help somebody else climb whatever their mountain is, metaphorical or physical, then I won. And then they won. And it's so much more fun. You have kids. You know, when we used to play sports and you got a soccer goal, woo-hoo. If my kid gets a goal in soccer, I'm like the happiest mom you've ever seen in your life. And so for me, it's so much more rewarding to watch somebody else hit the summit than even me reaching the summit anymore.

Now I, I, I wanted to kind of hold it off in, in, uh, the podcast, but I'll just dive into it. So 7 kids, what's it like raising 7 kids as a single mom?

Yeah, well, so 7 kids are just so much fun, right? You have 7 personalities, so you're parenting 7 different ways.

What's the youngest?

The youngest are 12, so I have twin 12-year-olds.

And the oldest, 18 now.

Wow, hard to believe because I feel like I should be 18. But yeah, no, so I have a senior, a junior, a sophomore, a freshman, skip 8th have a 7th grader, and then twin 6th graders. And I mean, it is so much fun because they view— like, I love watching how they do life or how they process things or what they think or who interprets whatever I say different ways. Somebody will take it serious, somebody will take it funny, somebody will be like, well, that didn't really matter. I'm like, well, it kind of did. And so it's just Yeah, it's just fun.

Now, um, how are you— how are you teaching them to conquer their mountains?

As a parent, I think you get the opportunity to expose them to different challenges and different things. So I've taken my three oldest to climb Kilimanjaro, which is the highest mountain in Africa.

And they, they climbed it?

They climbed it. They got to the top. They hated me the first day because all of their friends are going to Mexico for spring break and I made them go climb a mountain in Africa.

Like, I'm gonna go climb Mountain Kilimanjaro. Kilimanjaro, like, oh cool, dude, we'll be partying in Mexico.

Exactly, it was what was happening. So they hated me, um, but then they— you can't have cell phones, right, because the cell phone coverage doesn't work. So for a week without phones, that's amazing by itself. It was an awesome experience by itself, and it was fun because they got to experience it, because the first 2 days or 3 days they were frustrated and mad. And then we got like a tinge of cell service for a second, so a whole bunch of messages came in, but they couldn't respond back. And the messages that came in, they're like, oh my gosh, this is the same thing that goes on every single day. Nothing's happened. By the end of the climb, it took us 8 days to climb and get down. They didn't even want to turn on their phones. They're like, I don't even want to know because it's all going to be the same story. I didn't miss anything. I already know. And they got to the top of the mountain and they felt so good. They earned it, right? It took them days. No one could carry them up the mountain. They had to make the decision to do it.

They had to wake up at midnight to go for the summit push. They had to do like all all these different things, and that built such a confidence in them. When we came back, they were different, and it was so awesome to watch.

What an incredible story. Yeah, just take your kids to hike Mount Kilimanjaro. It'll change their life.

It does, right? And the fun thing about this is like, we're in this gorgeous gear, right? They're in perfect gear from North Face and all the different brands, and the guys that are helping us climb are in Crocs and flip-flops and t-shirts. And they're singing songs. They're super happy. They're so grateful. But you were working like one of my sons was like, Mom, we need to bring these people back to Utah and work at Panda Express. They'd love it.

They're just in flip-flops going up Mount Kilimanjaro.

I mean, it's bananas.

But yeah, it's that easy for them.

It's that easy for them because they do it all the time. So they're acclimatized and they're not having the struggle that we're having. And they're so grateful to be out in nature. They're singing songs, they're having fun. In fact, one night when we were at one of the camps, my kids said, like, enthusiasm is power. I'm like, it is. Because when you can show up enthusiastic about what you're doing, you infect everybody around you and everybody has a good time. And so when the guys would come and they'd start singing their songs and doing the dances, by the end, the boys were doing the same thing. In the beginning, they were judging and being like, what's going on? And by the end, They won my kids over, and it was an amazing experience.

You know, that's one thing I haven't heard, and to hear it from a youth, it just— it's even more profound, right? You know, enthusiasm is power.

Yeah.

And you know, that really plays into my own life. Like, I show up happy every day. I show up enthusiastic every day to work. I never show up like groggy or pissed off, and it makes sense. It's It allows me to just dominate what I do, right? Because I love it.

If you're having fun, like, watch out, because the person having fun is the hardest person to beat. Yeah, all day long, right? When we were climbing this section of Mount Everest, there's a section called the Lhotse Face. It's everybody's least favorite section because it's basically a 3,700-foot vertical Stairmaster, and you're out in the elements, so there's nothing to protect you from the wind or the sun or anything, and you're going for hours. Well, when we were going through this section, it was cloudy out, so I put on goggles, and I had pink lenses in my goggles, which allow you to see depth perception when it's darker. And so I have these pink goggles on. After hiking for about 30 minutes, I kind of forget that we're hiking, and my mind starts to be imaginative, and everything around me looks pink. So I feel like I'm in a cotton candy machine. And then I start thinking about going to the circus with my grandparents when I was younger, and I think of playing Candyland with my kids. And then the rope that I'm tied to at this moment looks like a watermelon rind because of the pink glasses.

And so then I'm thinking of that song, Watermelon Sugar High, and I'm having a blast. Like, I'm dancing, I'm having fun, whatever. Well, our alarms go off on our phones or our watches because at altitude you don't necessarily get the signal to eat. So you have to time yourself to remind yourself to drink and eat so you have energy for later on in the day. So the alarms go off, we take off our backpacks, we go to get snacks. And I bumped my goggles. So I bumped my goggles, so the pink goes away, and almost instantly I'm cold, miserable, freezing, and gray because we're in a whiteout snowstorm. But to me it looked like a cotton candy machine with pink floating around, right? So I was having fun, and I look at my team and they could tell my energy shifted, right? Like something dropped on me. And they're like, what just happened to you? I'm like, what just happened to me? Have you seen like what we're climbing in? Like, why are we climbing? What's going on? Like, how long has this been going on? And my friends and my team are like, this has been going on for the last 2 hours.

Where have you been? I'm like, I've been in a pink cotton candy land and I was having fun and now I'm not. And it was just amazing. Like, your perspective changes your experience on every level of everything you're doing.

But to envision yourself in a pink cotton candy land on the top of a mountain in freezing cold temperatures is tough. So how do you switch your mentality to really embrace that? Yeah, it's like, how did you do that? It's like its own magic. It's its own power.

For me, I'm always thinking like, if this is hard, what would make it easy? What would make it fun? Because I think a lot of us, especially entrepreneurs, we're committed to the goal. Like, we're going to get to the top of the mountain. But if you already know that you're going to get to the top of the mountain, now the challenge is how do you make it fun and how do you bring people with you so that you all get to the top of the mountain, not just yourself? So anytime I find myself in a funk where I'm like pushing or like angry or unhappy, that's my timeout. Sign. And it's like, okay, wait, I can change this experience with my perspective. What perspective do I need to have to make this fun? And more times than not, it's going back to my childhood. Like, we had to make these igloos on one of the mountains because if the tents ripped, you'd be in trouble. So you'd set up a tent and then you'd cut out ice blocks to make an igloo. It was horrible. It's heavy, it's hard, it's cold, it's whatever. And then I thought to myself, if I was 5, and my job was to make igloos, I'd be in heaven.

Like, that'd be the coolest thing ever. So I kind of tapped into my 5-year-old and was like, I am an adult and I get to be out here making igloos. Like, how lucky is my life? That perspective changes your experience, which changes everything.

So how can a normal person change perspective in a hardship situation?

Okay, so for example, I built my business cold calling. I had a phone book. They were listed by like how wealthy the neighborhood was and you just had to smile and dial. It is horrifying because the amount of times you get hung up on or sworn at or done whatever with, right? So I'm like, well, if this is what I need to do to build my book of business, I need to make this fun. So I bought one of those guns that used to have like a sponge ball that was tied to the gun by a string. So then I could shoot the gun to get rid of the anger to go play again. Right? So anytime I got hung up on, I'm like, I'd shoot the person, get my power back, and call the next person. I made it fun. And we would have like a basketball hoop in there. So any single time that we got hung up on, you'd throw the basketball to see if you made a basket. And then if you made a basket, it was just, it was a way to break up the monotony of the task that isn't cool.

And that's on you. Like, what does that look like for you? And everybody can make that fun.

I like that because candidly, I kind of still, build my business on a phone book, right? It's not, it's not the same exact phone book because of automation and technology, but you know, I'm still generating leads. They're prospects to join the organization, but it's the same thing as when I started. Oh, I'm not interested. I, you know, I'm going to another company. Like, okay, fine, go to the other, you know. So it's the same. I've myself really just embraced rejection. Like, it's just like, I love it.

Yeah, right.

If you reject me, I like it.

You know, I would rather have you reject me than not, because my thought is, is like, okay, I need 97 people to reject me and then 3 people won't. And the 3 people that don't are going to invest with me and they're going to make up for the 97 people that didn't. So for me, it's just a numbers game. Get me through the numbers because eventually I'll win.

Yeah, yeah. And so, and that's, that's, I guess, entrepreneurship in general. It's all just a numbers game. What's the reality with, with anybody who's successful? Now, I live in Newport Beach, and the, the traditional model of success that our parents taught us— my parents specifically— is go to school, then go to college, then go to med school, and then you'll be successful. Well, Mom and Dad, I don't have any doctor neighbors. There are none in Newport Beach, right? Everybody's an entrepreneur. Because a doctor has a finite income of $200,000, $300,000, $400,000. They can't buy a $5 million house. So what I'm telling my kids now, it's like, okay, you're gonna go to med school as a baseline, and then you're gonna start your business. And it's gonna be some sort of medical practice or some sort of whatever it is, or you invent a product. But I'm encouraging them to embrace rejection now. Definitely, and start their businesses now and kind of like understand how to negotiate. My son walked into an iPad store, or a You Break, I Fix store. I told him like, go in there, tell them how much to fix iPad.

They wanted like $200 to fix the iPad. Like, Dad, they want $200. I'm like, go back in there and tell them, tell them $100. Like, and he looks at him like, no, I'm not going to give him $100. I'm not gonna do it for $100. He embraced the rejection. Like, all right, we'll get a new iPad for $300.

Right, right, right, right, right.

So The whole thing is though, he got rejected on his— I'm always showing them how to negotiate and embrace rejection. And they're rude now because once you're 9 or 10, they're no longer like, this is cute negotiating with me. No, they're like annoyed. You know, like I had them negotiating at like 5 and people would be like, they would succumb because it's like a 5-year-old negotiating, right? You know, it's like, oh, this is adorable. Now that, you know, you're 10, like they're going to be a jerk to you. Right, totally. He'd never experienced someone just being a total jerk to him while he's trying to negotiate. You're like, well, welcome to life, sweetheart. That's how real negotiating is, by the way. They're gonna be a jerk. They're not gonna just think you're some cute kid, right?

All right, cuteness only goes so far. Yeah, only at a certain age and then it's gone. No, I think teaching your kids like how to run businesses— like we, when my kids were younger, I homeschooled them and we did the whole chicken thing, right? So they had to buy chicken feed and then they get the chicken eggs and they'd sell the eggs to get the money to buy the feed to do the thing and, you know, learn all the things that you had to do with it and I just think it's so fun because it just becomes part of the process instead of it's about me. Learning to separate from the two really helps.

Now, you have been— you've had to go through a lot of grind to get to where you're at. You had to cold call, get rejected thousands of times, and you've really built, you know, a luxurious lifestyle for your kids. Your kids don't have to go through the suffering that you went through. Now, we always say for entrepreneurs, the suffering is what's made us who we are.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, I want my kids to be better than me, and as do you. So how are you instilling that same level of grit that you have, that same attitude that you have in your kids? And we kind of hinted at it a little bit, but how are you instilling that grit in your kids? How are you making sure that they're able to deal with suffering? How are you making sure that they're able to deal with adversity?

Yeah, I mean, one, you know, taking them out in the mountains, that was pretty cool, where you have adversity and like, this is what it looks like or whatever. But I'm also— I took my son Jack to a real estate conference two weekends ago. Um, I'm not personally in this mind frame to invest in real estate right now, but he might be. And so I wanted him to see a different way that you can learn something instead of just traditional school, because I don't know if school is really the best move for him. So I'm like, let's look at other things that interest you that you might be open to exploring and other ways you can learn than a normal college education. So I think a lot of it is just exploring with them so that they can see like, hey, I'm a beginner and you're a beginner, we're beginners together, but let's see what we can learn. Is this something that we're interested in? And being able to walk away from it or not. Jack also had a business idea before that he was gonna do with social media. And so I matched his investment and it didn't go well.

I didn't go berate him and get mad at him or whatever. It was like, okay, well, how do we harvest this loss? So then we sat and I was like, what did we learn from this? What do we know about ourselves going forward? How is this gonna leverage us into the next version of who we need to become? But you need to sit down with them and like not shame them or guilt them, but help them explore and evaluate those experiences so they can learn about themselves and continue to carry forward.

I love that. You know, um, he's much, he took a much more mature approach. I started a business with my 9-year-old son. It's, uh, slanging cards, selling cards, basketball cards, baseball cards on Whatnot, which is, uh, basically like a, a bunch of people streaming cards. And we sold our first card, okay? And it was a, a football autograph card. We sold it for $3, and he was so upset. He was like, all we got for that card was $3. I'm like, bro, you're selling in an auction, okay? And there was only 2 people in the auction. Like, whatever you start the auction at, that's pretty much what you're gonna sell it at. You started for $3. He was upset. He was so upset. But I'm like, don't look at that. You made your first sale. Like, you made a sale. You, you accomplished the goal of a sale. Like, you know how long it takes an entrepreneur to make one sale? You made your first sale at 9. You know, he wanted to give up. He's like, this is too hard, right? You know, it's like instilling that level of fear and anxiety in them young and having them embrace those challenges is so imperative.

And I'm always looking for ways to make them embrace challenges, embrace adversity, and do hard things, because no one gets far doing easy things, right?

Right.

I mean, I like that Mount Kilimanjaro. I just don't think I could do it.

Oh, I'll get you up there, don't you worry.

I can do it myself, like, so I don't know how I'm gonna get them to do it.

But yeah, like, I think it's just exposing them to different experiences too. So one of the things I've done with my kids is they're all scuba certified. And the cool thing about being scuba certified—

Even your 12-year-olds?

Yes, because you can get it at 10. So when you are scuba certified, when you get in the water with the tank, the goal isn't to get to the boat as fast as possible. The goal is to see as much as possible, right? Because if you get to the side and then you miss like the sea cucumber or this fish or whatever else like that, like the whole point under there underwater was to see all these different things. So I think when you're raising your kids, just exposing them to different experiences and different ways of winning versus getting to the top of the mountain the fastest. It's who gets to see the most that wins. And what did you see and what did you learn and all those different things. So not just having the experience, but having the built-in reflection time of the experience so they get to integrate what they learn to carry forward.

I love that. Now, a couple last questions before you adjourn. This is a three-pronged question.

Okay.

Okay. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself, a family goal that you have for your family, and a goal that you have for your business?

Oh man, big questions. Okay. So the goal that I have for my business, even though I'm in thought leadership, I'm hoping that I'm in a position in the near future. So the next 3 to 5 years where I'm not the asset, right? So that's definitely something I'm working on because right now I'm the asset and I want it to not be the asset.

I have that same goal.

Yeah, perfect.

Great.

Okay, we're on that together. We'll hold each other accountable.

Yes.

Amen. So we'll hold each other accountable. A goal for my family is, you know, I'm losing my first son to college this fall, so it's going to change our family dynamics because not everybody's going to be living under the same roof. So I've already got us hotel rooms for parents weekend so all of us can go down there and see him and connect with him. And so I'm hoping, or as my goal for the family over the next few years is as I start losing kids to college, that we all still travel together to see each other in their new environments. So that's something I'm very serious about. And then a personal goal for me is getting these last two mountains done. And getting this last world record and then allowing myself to sit with that for a little bit and not chase something because I love the chase.

I love that. Yeah, I love that you love the chase. And you're, you're going to climb these two mountains, you're going to figure something else out.

Of course I am. But I want to like— I know I'm going to check that box. I know, right? It's like, I know I'm going to figure something else out. So I want to be able to sit without doing something and still feel good. You know, that human doing and human being. I'm good at doing, I need to get better at being.

Love it. Last question. Yeah, because you're just an incredible servant, a huge heart. When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you?

He's going to say thank you. Thank you for having the courage to do things I challenged you to do that didn't make sense. Because when I started climbing these mountains, I had never slept in a tent Everybody looked at me like I was crazy. Like, where are you coming up with this idea? And why would you even pursue this? Like, who climbs Everest with 7 children at home? Like, none of it made sense, but I knew I had that whole body yes. And I just had the faith that if this seed was planted in me, I'm supposed to grow it. And so I grew it. And by chasing that goal, I got to meet so many amazing people, be a part of so many stories I would have never known. And I'm so grateful I had the courage to do that.

Amazing, amazing, amazing story. What an inspiration you are to millions of women. If people want to get in touch with you, how do they find you?

Yeah, so definitely @thegen drummond on Instagram or gendrummond.com or Jen Drummond on LinkedIn. Say hi, come over, like reach out. I love hearing what you guys are up to, or the Clump Mountain that you're climbing.

Thank you. Thanks, Jen. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the show. We appreciate you. God bless you. God bless your family. I hope you hit all your goals. Jen Drummond, make sure you follow her.