Transcript of New details on investigation into UnitedHealthcare CEO's killing as police execute search warrants

Sources now say police have executed as many as 3 search warrants as they probed the murder of Brian Thompson. And according to ABC News, prosecutors of Manhattan are now presenting the mounting evidence against the suspect, Luigi Mangione, to a grand jury. Our senior crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokopecz, is on the story for us. Shimon, fill us in on these late breaking developments.

Well, Wolf, that's right. CNN is learning that 3 search warrants have now at least 3 search search warrants have been executed in connection with this investigation. You have as you will recall, there was a backpack that it's believed the gunman was wearing. Police recovered that inside Central Park, and in it, they found monopoly money. They also found a jacket they believe belonged to the alleged shooter.

So for all of that, the police were able to obtain that search warrant to search inside the bag. Also significant is that they have been working with a search warrant for a burner phone. There was a cell phone that's been described as a burner phone that was located near the scene of the shooting that they believe is connected to the gunman. So authorities have a search warrant for that phone. The question now, Wolf, becomes is whether or not authorities, the police have been able to get inside the phone, whether or not they've been able to crack the code to get inside and look at the contents of the phone.

That is very, very important for investigators who are trying to build out a timeline as to what the alleged shooter was doing during his time here in New York City and, of course, in the days months before. So they have all of that. Meanwhile, while all that is going on, we now have learned through ABC News that a grand jury has already been impaneled, and they are hearing evidence. That is not that surprising, Wolf. It is important for authorities to move very quickly in this case.

They certainly, based on everything we've been reporting between the ballistics match and the fingerprint match, they now have enough evidence, it would appear, to get an indictment. So it won't be very difficult. The question, though, we heard from the DA, Alvin Bragg, yesterday, who said they are trying to figure out exactly what to charge the alleged shooter with. They definitely will charge the murder too. But given the calculated nature of this, what is essentially an assassination, could they possibly bring other charges against the shooter?

And that is something that we wait to hear from the DA. And we can have an indictment, Wolf, really, any moment now.

Very interesting. Arishima Prokopas, thank you very much for that update. Our legal and law enforcement experts are now joining us for some analysis. Andrew McCabe, let me start with you. A breakdown for us the significance of prosecutors at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office beginning now to present evidence to a grand jury against Mangione?

Sure. Well, so it's, obviously, an essential step in this process. Everybody has a right to be indicted by a grand jury of their peers before they're put on trial for any criminal offense. Sometimes people are arrested on complaints and then indicted later. But in this case, anticipating that they will be receiving mister Mangione from the state of Pennsylvania at some point in the near future, they're trying to get their ducks in a row.

So they're very careful about bringing as they collect more evidence that points to his guilt. Like, we learned about the positive ballistics match from the firearm yesterday. We know, as as Shamone just told us about the information that was contained, the articles that were contained within the backpack, the positive fingerprints that were that were, recovered from the water bottle and the KIND bar wrapper. These are all things that the prosecutors will put in front of the jurors to defeat a potential defense, which will be, it wasn't me. That's probably the best defense that he has to go with at this point, although I would argue it's not a particularly strong 1.

So they are gonna pound these grand jurors with every piece of evidence that indicates he was there. He had that gun. This is he is the guy you see on that video.

Elliot Williams, you're our legal analyst. How likely do you think an indictment is in this in this case right now? What is the chances that there will be an indictment in your view?

Based on what's publicly available, very high, Wolf. And this is just a backup of things Andrew has said. Now over the last couple days, I've gotten the question several times. If he's already been charged with a crime, why are they going to the grand jury? Well, it's a it's the way New York law is crafted.

As Andrew had said, he was, in effect, informed of the charges against him in a complaint, which is almost a lower form of notifying a defendant of the charges that he might be facing. The kinds of things that we're looking at here, a homicide charge, a second degree murder charge, or perhaps more, as Shamone had said at the start here, has to go through a New York grand jury. Now based on the evidence that's available, number 1, suggesting that this, suspect was at the scene of the crime, the ballistics evidence, the fingerprint evidence, the some of the information from Pennsylvania, eyewitnesses, and so on seem to suggest that there is probable cause to move forward with an indictment. And I would think, we would see 1 quite soon.

So, Elliot, let me follow-up. How strong is the evidence that we know about right now for an indictment against Mangione in New York?

Now, again, based on what's publicly available, very strong. The standard is probable cause. Is it more likely than not that an individual committed an offense? That's the standard for charging someone. It's not reasonable doubt, the very high standard that it'll take to actually send someone to jail and deprive them of their liberty.

But, again, more likely than not, is there a a substantial likelihood that the individual committed the offense? Based on

that evidence that we have seen in the public thus far, yes, likely that that you'd get indicted. Now, of course, he has a right to mount a defense if he wishes, and can challenge any of

the evidence, can challenge the integrity of it, how it was preserved, how it was maintained. But, of course, just for getting to the indictment stage, I would think we are there.

Chief Ramsey is with us as well. Chief Ramsey, the former police commissioner in Philadelphia, police chief here in Washington DC. Chief Ramsey, what stands out to you about the 3 search warrants we now know the NYPD executed?

Well, what stands out is the fact that they're doing everything by the book. I mean, this is a case That they want to be very careful That they don't do anything that could jeopardize the case. Elliot mentioned earlier the preservation and the collection of evidence for an example making sure That they've done everything properly getting search warrants before they go into the bag getting search warrants, in order to to to get into the phone All those things are necessary so that they don't have a problem later on when this case goes to trial they've got strong evidence right now. They've got strong forensic evidence We're still waiting on dna. I would imagine, but they have the gun they have the silencer they have the Fake id that he used in new york at the hostel and then, of course, his writings where he pretty much describes the why, he did it.

So, they've got a good case. They just don't they just don't wanna take anything for granted, so they are definitely doing things by procedure.

And, Andrew, you're the former deputy director of the FBI. This is all on top of the very impressive ballistic and fingerprint evidence tying Mangione to the scene of the crime as we just heard from chief Ramsey. So how challenging is it going to be for him to mount a credible defense here?

It's gonna be very challenging. Well, you know, this is the the 1 of the unique details of this crime is we all saw it happen. There's no question that Brian Thompson was the victim of a of a horribly, targeted assassination on the street of Manhattan. The only question really for the prosecutors in Manhattan to have to address is to prove that Luigi Mangione was the man we saw in that video shooting Brian Thompson. So he, of course, will make will will likely take the opposite perspective saying, hey.

It wasn't me. I wasn't there. It's somebody else. I look like that guy, but that's not really me. That becomes harder and harder to present credibly to a jury with every piece of evidence that puts him at the scene of the crime and that ties him to the murder weapon specifically.

For me, his possession of the murder weapon in the backpack when he's arrested in Pennsylvania is absolutely inexplicable. There are probably a 1,000 places he could have gotten rid of that gun between Manhattan and Pennsylvania. The fact that he chose not to do so will probably the be the worst decision he made in terms of his defense of these charges. The charges are very strong. It'll be interesting to see how they how they face them, but we'll just have to let time play out to understand that.

Elliott, I wanna play, for you and our viewers some of what the DA in New York, Alvin Bragg, said about the public reaction at least so far to this case. Listen to this.

Celebrating, this conduct is abhorrent to me. It's deeply disturbing. And what I would say to members of the public, people who, as you described, are, celebrating this, and maybe contemplating other action, that, we will be vigilant, and we will hold people accountable. We are at the ready.

So what do what do you make of that?

I think he's doing 2 things, Wolf. Number 1, he's making the big moral point that we should never cheer violence and never cheer vigilantism. But, also, he's trying to ensure that he gets a clean jury pool. He needs to ensure the public that anybody who's coming at this case and looking at it ought to see it with a fair eye, and it's really just a matter of trying 1 defendant, not some bigger, broader political matter that could kick get people kicked off a jury for being biased.

And this is all just beginning right now, this case. Alright. Everyone, thank you very, very much.

Magna, thanks so much for joining us. So you broke the story that we all read about the existence of a missing person report that Luigi Mangione's mother filed earlier this year. Tell us about that. She she believed he was in San Francisco?

Right. That's I mean, that's what it seems like. We really only knew about 1 link to San Francisco, prior to that, which was, what NYPD said on that very first day that he had some ties to San Francisco. So what the missing person's report tells us is that, his mother had not spoken to him since, since July of earlier this year. She called called in for him missing on, November 18th.

She believed that he was working in the city, apparently, on, an address on Montgomery Street at a company called TrueCar. TrueCar, however, had said that, he has not worked for them since 2023, and they did not appear to ever have an address at the address that was listed in this missing person's report.

Oh.

Additionally, the, the phone number that the mother had, was was out of service.

What are the San Francisco police telling you, if anything, about the missing person report? Did they ever find or have any contact with Luigi Mangione?

They are not telling us anything. No. They are, referring everybody to, the New York Police Department, you know, trying to be deferential with that. But it is, there's still a lot of puzzle pieces missing. We don't know if he actually was in San Francisco.

We don't know, you know, other than the fact that there was a TrueCar location here, why his mother would have believed that he was here in San Francisco. And, yeah, police really are not telling us much now.

But the TrueCar in San Francisco said he he had worked for them, just not since 2023. Right?

Right. Not since 2023, and it's unclear if he ever worked at the location here in San Francisco. Francisco. We believe that he was, you know, keep his last known address was in Honolulu. Seems like he was, working at TrueCar, during that time, but we have we don't know if he ever worked at the, at the location here.

What is TrueCar? What do what do they do?

They're they're a a online, car sale company. He was a, he was a data engineer for them.

Interesting. Alright. Megan Cassidy, keep up the great work. Thanks for joining us.

Luigi Mangione is fighting extradition to New York. While that happens, this is the prison where he's being held. It's the state correctional institution at Huntington, the oldest operating state prison in Pennsylvania. Mangione's cell looks much like the 1 you see here according to a law enforcement source. His actual cell is 15 by 6 feet.

A Department of Corrections spokesperson says he's in a single cell and not in solitary confinement. He is not interacting with other inmates at this time. He has a bed, sink, toilet, and a desk with a seat.

It's always interesting to see, you know, a prison in your backyard that, you know, frankly, most people wouldn't be able to pick out of a map or wouldn't know the name of, and now everyone's interested in the type of food he's eating, you know, the cell block that he's in.

Meals at the facility are served 3 times a day, 6:15, 10:40, and supper at 5:15. Tonight on the menu, Mangione has a choice between chicken Parmesan and a dish called pizza beans. The Department of Correction says Mangione has taken his meals in his cell and is not interacting with other inmates, adding all inmates are afforded time outside their cells even if they are a higher custody level. Hey. Mangione's case has received a great deal of national attention, so perhaps no surprise he's already known to some inmates, some of whom shouted his name to media outlet NewsNation.

Free illegal. That type of notoriety is also an added security concern at a correctional facility.

Any prison state or federal is a predatory environment, and there could be prisoners who are there for a long time, perhaps looking to get in the media, get some attention. So he's gotta learn to enjoy his own company in a little cell with a desk, with a toilet, with a little with a pen to be able to write with a sink because he will not be around prisoners, as I see it, for quite some time. The prison just can't risk it.

Huntington's inmates have made headlines before Mangione.

Why is it?

Cosmo Donardo, who was convicted of murdering 4 men and burying them on his parents' property, served part of his life sentence there. Nick Yaras also served time there. Yaras was wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in 1982 on rape and murder charges. His sentence overturned in 2003 due to DNA evidence. He says his time in Huntington are years he will never forget.

Because he decided to send me to Huntington Prison, the hardest prison in America at that

time. What was he gonna do before that?

I don't know, but he made sure I went to the place that they broke you.

Mangione's time there could be measured in weeks as prosecutors push to have him brought back to New York. And, Erin, the Department of Corrections also tells us that Mangione is allowed to have visitors there at the facility. But so far, the only person to visit him has been his attorney, and that was this afternoon. Erin?

That's very interesting to say the least. Alright. Thanks very much, Jason. So Tim Clemente is with us now, former FBI counter terror agent, criminal criminologist Casey Jordan, and criminal defense attorney Mark O'Meara. So, Mark, let's just start with where where Jason finished.

That point he said that there's been 1 visitor and it's been his lawyer. Now we understand that Mangione is allowed visitors. Right? So he could have had, family, for example, come, that is allowed, but it has not happened. Only his lawyer as the only single person to visit.

Does that signal anything to you, Mark?

Well, in 1 sense, yes, that the family is not behind him. But we also have to sort of temper that thought with the idea that when inmates are first in jail, I have my rules that I tell them, which is keep away from the family. I literally say because don't forget, all phone calls are recorded. All visits are recorded. That's just sort of devastating information that you give to the prosecution.

Here's what I tell them. You can talk about kittens and butterflies and cake pops. Other than that, do not speak a word on the phone to anybody other than your attorneys because it's devastating evidence. So that could be another reason why, but 1 would hope that the family is gonna come show their support pretty soon.

Right. Right. And, obviously, the, you know, the lawyer interactions would be would be covered by privilege. Right? So they wouldn't be able to listen to those.

Yes. Okay. So, Tim, we know Mangione is in a single cell. I was describing it 15 by 6, not interacting with other prisoners at this point, would have been able to, but is not doing so. And, you know, you heard those prisoners yelling free Luigi there, which is sort of an odd, juxtaposition with the entire context of that prison.

But he's already notorious, Tim, is the point. He's already notorious inside that prison. What does that mean? You know, when they say security threat, what does that mean?

Well, it means he's at great risk, Aaron, because the fact that everybody knows who he is and, you know, even those that are supporting him apparently are yelling out his name, but everyone in that prison, I'm sure, knows who he is. And there are gonna be some people that wanna be more famous than him. And so you got lifers and others doing time there, and he's a big target. I mean, a big target. He's a young guy.

He's handsome. He's rich, and so he is not the average person in that prison. And I can assure you that there are many, many prisoners that would like to bring him down a couple of notches, if not bring him all the way 6 feet under.

Which is, you know, just incredible the context here of what this reality now is. Casey, we haven't seen him since he was in court 2 days ago when he had that outburst and was yelling extensively still at the the corporate system or the health care. It was unclear, but it was that sort of a an outburst. But today, the NYPD said that Mangione was never a client of UnitedHealthcare. He didn't have any interaction with that company, specifically.

What what does that say to you about the reason he did this or his motive? Luigi

Mangione most likely sees himself as a champion of the people, of the underdog. He's like a, you know, a caped crusader, a Batman who is standing in for, you know, all the people of Gotham as the evil health care insurer, you know, ruins our lives. And I have no doubt that he has spent a great deal of time, not only reading books about this, you know, about the denied, delay, deposed, but but really and truly thinking of what he could do to try to make a difference. And as he as he rabbit holes, you know, for lack of a better verb, he really does think he has to do this. He he talks about the bee encounters and the parasites.

He thinks he's 1 with the others. Now that's interesting when you think about the fact that he has grown up in a in a life of incredible privilege and affluence. But the idea that he's never been insured by them, and probably doesn't even known anyone specifically who has suffered because of, you know, problems with UnitedHealthcare. He just picked them because they are the giant, the largest health care company in America that he wants to slay on behalf of the weak and the underdog. And these delusions of grandiosity, you know, really do point to some deeper mental health issues that his lawyers are gonna wanna uncover.

And and what could those be, Casey, specifically? Is there anything just that kind of stands out to you here so far?

Well,

sure. We never diagnose. But, I mean, the the the outburst and the the writings reminds me, you know, and his, his affinity for Ted Kaczynski and his writings. I would not be surprised since he just kind of had this huge behavioral shift 6 months ago that everyone agrees was massive.

Yeah.

That he's decompensating. It's consistent with schizophrenia, which is very typically onset in the twenties of young men. So it will be interesting to see what happens when a psychiatrist is able to evaluate him.

And, Mark, when does that happen? And and and, obviously, is that from the perspective of his lawyer, how quickly do they wanna do that, and is that something we would know about when it first happens?

Well, we should not know about it because it's supposed to be privileged communications. And whenever you bring in an expert to the jail, although everyone can see him go in, you're not supposed to, but it should happen yesterday. You want it to happen as close in time to the event so that the psychiatrist who you're gonna commit is gonna see some of that. Because as was just said, if he is suffering from a specific mental health disability, it is gonna show better closer in time. So I would have my psychiatrist forensic psychiatrist in there as soon as possible and get those forensics workup done, particularly to get to how his thought processing is.

Because when you have this type of break, if that's where the defense is going, it takes a while to unravel, but you can see it from a psychiatric standpoint pretty quickly.

Right. Right. And I know, you know, Tim, as we heard his attorney tell us last night, right now, he's he's clearly gonna plead not guilty and not by way of insanity, just not guilty. But they would need to to open that path if this is as clear cut of a case as Brynn is indicating that, officials think it is at this point. Tim, so what we've also found out something new today about what Mangione did, and that is, you know, when he took a cab to that George Washington bus terminal, which is 1 of the biggest in the country, but it's it's up in the north, you know, Bronx of New York City.

And then he didn't get on a bus there. That he actually got back on a subway and went all the way back down to Penn Station. It would take an hour plus, to do that. And this is after he had committed the the the murder according to police. That's how he went to Philadelphia, and then they don't know from there how he got out to Western Pennsylvania and Altoona where he was ultimately apprehended.

What do those movements tell you, Tim?

It tells me planning, cunning, and concealment of his tracks. I mean, if it is possible he went to the 178th Street, you know, bus depot and couldn't get a bus and decided to take something out of Penn Station, but it seems more like he's covering his tracks. I I thought it was a brilliant move to ride on a bicycle through Midtown, especially in the morning when rush hour's about to begin. Yep. And he's not gonna get stuck stuck in any traffic.

And then taking public transportation and moving by cab up to, the bus depot and then by subway down South. Very hard to track those movements very, very hard because he's underground for half the time and in a bus with dozens of other people the rest of the time. So it's pretty clever. It's a good way to conceal, your movements and obviously worked. It took a few days to figure out where he was.

So it was it was successful until this point.

Joining us now, the aforementioned Jeffrey Toobin, also CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller, former deputy commissioner with the NYPD and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. Oh, so John, what else can you tell us about these search warrants?

Well, I think what they're looking at in terms of search warrants is when he was arrested in Pennsylvania, they've got a laptop computer he was looking at, as you mentioned. He's got a phone with him, and then there's the burner phone in New York. To get to seize them, you know, they, they have them in the They

need a search warrant.

To but to get into them Right. To get their contents, that's what you need the search warrant for, and, you know, they're gonna be really curious to see, well, as he was on the run, what was he looking at?

He'd also referenced in the so called manifesto or in this writing that he'd addressed to feds as you pointed out last night that his devices were essentially locked down.

Right? He said my technology is pretty locked down, but, you know, if you look in the spiral notebook or here, you know, you can see most of my planning. So, and he said locked down because, you know, I'm an engineer, so there's not much in there for you. That's kinda cryptic, but what is what does he mean? Lockdown like you're gonna have a lot of trouble getting into them or lockdown meaning there's just engineering stuff in there and not the clues you're looking for?

The only way to find out is to get in.

And, Jeff, so prosecutors, according to ABC News, are have convened a grand jury. They've been presenting evidence. What what does that look like?

The, this is an extraordinary case, but that's an ordinary procedure for for a murder case. The way, a a case works in state court is in order to bring a serious charge like this, you have to have a, grand jury issue an indictment, and they and evidence is presented, and it looks sort of like a a trial except there's only 1 side represented. There's no cross examination. In a grand jury, the prosecution puts forth evidence. They don't put forth all their evidence, and then the grand jury votes to, issue an indictment or not.

And then it moves to a trial, which is, of course, public and more familiar, and it's an adversary proceeding.

Andrew, I mean, as someone who worked at the FBI for a long time, what what stands out to you still about what we don't know? I mean, according to the NYPD official told NBC, there's no indication he was a client of UnitedHealthcare. I mean, is that significant from an investigative standpoint?

I think it is. I think many of us kinda jumped to these potential, narratives in the immediate aftermath of the crime that this was likely, you know, a disgruntled, insured person or customer of the company who maybe had suffered or had a family member who had suffered because of the company's decisions about denying coverage or something like that. That doesn't appear to be the case here at all. He certainly seems to have had his eye on the health care sector to some degree. His comments about the earnings of UnitedHealthcare may be making them a target, but it doesn't seem that he had any specific animus for Brian Thompson specifically, but maybe was drawn to him more because of his role in this large profitable, health insurance company.

As for the rest of the picture, there's really a lot we don't know about his motive. Now a lot of that isn't necessary for the prosecution. You don't have to prove motive as an element of this crime of murder. You You just have to prove that he did it intentionally. The video goes a long way to proving that in and of itself.

But I think to adequately assess the threat of this sort of violence targeting people like Brian Thompson or other CEOs or other corporate representatives. I think it's important that we understand as much as we can about this person's progression towards this very distinctive act of political violence essentially is what this was. Even though we don't think of it as, like, traditionally Democrat Republican politics, this was clearly an act of violence meant to change the policies and practices of, in this case, of this industry and this company.

John, was was his biggest mistake spending 10 days in New York City that allowed all these photographs to be taken? I mean, in the cab, in the hostel, I mean, if he had just come to the city last minute, would he have had a more of a chance to get away, you think?

You know, he wasn't from New York. He wasn't familiar with the target zone. He had to do his reconnaissance. I would say he was pretty careful. If he has a biggest mistake, it was in the encounter with the woman at the counter where he was checking into the youth hostel.

Youth hostel where you could pass with a fake driver's license, pay in cash, a very disciplined when he pulled down the mask and they got those 2 pictures where you could see his face, that's the reason somebody in Pennsylvania said, I think that's the guy.

Do you think he

I mean, you would there you you know, a lot of people were were thinking, well, he would toss away the gun that nobody wants to be caught with the gun. Do you think he was planning something else? Do you think he was planning to kill himself? Do you think he just wanted to keep his options open?

So 1 of the reasons that it's important to get into that computer is to find out what was he looking at at that moment, in that place? You know, he'd been to Philadelphia, he'd been to Pittsburgh, but there he was in Altoona, staying in a motel, eating in a McDonald's and with his head buried in a laptop computer. Was he researching the next target? Is the other health care executive on there? Was he saying which countries don't have extradition treaties with the United States?

Where could I go where they couldn't be?

Following the investigation and the coverage?

Or was he reading the newspapers about himself?

I think there's another thing that's really important about this investigation, which is how did he know that Brian Thompson was gonna be at that side entrance, not the main entrance to the New York Hilton, the side entrance, to the New York Hilton at 6:45 in the morning. And that's important because there are a lot of executives in this country and a lot of people in this country who are now afraid that they're gonna be stalked like this.

Right.

And how he found out where Brian Thompson was gonna be at this

Which is also based on the knowledge that he wasn't staying at the hotel.

Not at the hotel. All that bad bad, like, how easy it is or how difficult it is to locate the whereabouts and schedules of prominent people, that's really important.

Andrew, what do you make of the new details from The New York Times about his travels, his post earlier this year, and the going silent on his family, you know, since since last July?

It's really interesting. I mean, I think if you look more broadly at where he comes from, his family background, his kind of life of privilege and higher education and all that stuff to where he ended up assassinating someone on the streets of New York City, like massive gulf there. Right? And I think that if you within that context, if you look at the trip to Asia and the kind of dropping off the map, to me, that identifies the period in which somehow this young man slipped. Right?

He parted from his upbringing, his education, his friend group, his job, and he went down this path that led him to brutally taking the life of someone he didn't even know, in a very public way. And so I do think it's important to drill down on that period to understand what was it. It's you know, in in investigating terrorism cases, we used to call this the path to radicalization. Even after somebody had been convicted or jailed or whatever, we wanted to understand how they got to that point where they had become a radicalized terrorist.

It's kind

of the same thing with him. He's not a terrorist, but you wanna know what got him to this point so far away from where he came from.

Yeah. And we should point out all of this is these are alleged crimes at this point. He has been convicted. But as we said, based on the the reporting from, ABC, a grand jury has been, convened. Jeff Toobin, Andrew McCabe, John Miller is gonna stick

around.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate