Transcript of Honig on why he thinks Matt Gaetz is ‘a crazy pick’ for attorney general

Matt Gates is a great man.

In tapping congressman Matt Gates to be his attorney general, President-elect Donald Trump could be swatting at the biggest hornets nest of his transition.

It would be like the understatement of the year to say that this is an unconventional pick. This is a provocative pick of a provocateur who has himself faced a lot of legal trouble and is highly polarizing not just among whatever the American people or Congress, but inside the Republican Party himself.

If confirmed, the 42-year-old from Florida would lead a justice department that he has criticized and been a target of. I'm a marked man in Congress.

I'm a canceled man in some corners of the Internet. I might be a wanted man by the deep state.

Gates, a 2020 election denier, has accused the Justice Department of being weaponized under President Biden against people like Trump. He's called for abolishing the Department he's now been selected to lead and called for abolishing the FBI, often jousting with its director.

People trusted the FBI more when J. Edgar Hoover was running the place than when you are.

Could Gates now weaponize the Justice Department and help Trump go after his enemies?

I'm pretty sure with this pick, they're not just going to go around and shut down puppy mills. All right, this is a very serious pick, and Donald Trump is obviously telegraphing that he means business. Matt Gates is one of his best weapons in Congress. He's taking him out of Congress, and he's giving him the attorney general's office.

It was Gates who led the charge among some far-right Republicans in Congress to oust Kevin McCarthy as House Speaker last year.

This house has been poorly led.

But before that, the man who could become America's top law enforcement official had been accused of serious crimes. The Justice Department investigated Gates over allegations that he violated federal law by paying for sex, including sex with women who were under 18 years old. Gates repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. And last year, the Justice Department announced it would bring charges against him. One analyst says getting Gates confirmed could be a challenge, even in a Republican-led Congress.

This seems destined not only to be a selection that is going to test the loyalty to President-elect Trump of Republicans in the Senate, but that is meant to provoke.

The House Ethics Committee has also been investigating Matt Gates regarding allegations of sexual misconduct, illicit drug use, and corruption. But the chair The board of that committee now says that investigation will end if Gates resigns from Congress to become attorney general because the committee only has jurisdiction over members of Congress. Gates has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing regarding that probe as well. Wolf.

Brian Todd reporting. Brian Thank you very, very much. Our chief congressional correspondent, Mano Raju, is joining us as well. Mono, what's been the reaction up on Capitol Hill?

There's no doubt about a wolf that Matt Gates faces a rocky road to be confirmed, even in the Republican-led United States Senate, where they could have up to 53 seats, meaning that they could lose no more than three votes in order to get him across the finish line. And there are far more than three Republican senators who have concerns. In fact, Susan Collins of Maine, one of the moderate Republican senators, said that she was shocked about this nomination. But other senators, including on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which will take the first crack at this nomination, would have to advance this to the Senate floor. A number of those Republicans on those committees tell me tonight, Wolf, that they are not yet sold, that this is the way to go. And one of the reasons why was Gates' role to oust Kevin McCarthy from the speakership and the fact that Gates is under investigation by the House Ethics Committee.

The one thing about Matt that concerns me a little bit is I didn't like the way he handled the squabble with Speaker McCarthy. I thought it was unnecessary. I thought it was divisive. I think that the conference suffered, the Republican conference, suffered I don't know yet.

I think about that. Do you have any concerns about it? We'll see.

Unbelievable. I mean, Trump is following through on his threat to weaponize the Department of Justice, clearly.

And that last comment from a Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Alex Padilla of California. But a lot of Republicans, too, also either they're privately expressing concerns or they simply are not supportive of this yet, including Senate, majority of the incoming Senate Majority Leader John Thune, who is just elected to that position today. He will be in charge of managing the Senate and deciding what nominations to bring to the floor and how to proceed on this. He was asked by our colleague Ted Barrett if he supports this nomination or if he has any concerns about this nomination. He would not go either way yet, simply saying the Senate has the role of advice and consent. So that is where a lot of Republican leaders are at this moment, saying they're not certain whether they'll get on board behind this nomination.

All right, Manu Raj, you're up on Hill. Mano, thanks very much. I want to get a reaction from our legal and our political experts. Paula Reid, you're our Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent. These investigations of Matt Gates, where do they stand right now? And if he becomes the attorney general of the United States, what does that mean for the Justice Department.

Well, congressman Gates was under investigation for over two years. For all his talk of weaponization by the Biden administration, the investigation to congressman Gates was opened under attorney general Bill Barr in the Trump administration. Investigation. It went on for a little over two years. They looked into possible sex trafficking, possible obstruction of justice, questions about improper lobbying. The congressman always denied wrongdoing, and he was not charged. Again, that investigation was closed, but the House Ethics Committee is looking into similar issues. If he was to go for a confirmation hearing, the subject matter is going to be a little tadry. I reported on this for several years. We're talking about sex parties, drugs, at least one underage girl. I think that's why you really haven't heard his name in the conversation so far. But just because you've been investigated, Hillary Clinton has also been criminally investigated but not charged. It doesn't mean you can't be attorney general, but he's not going to receive a very warm welcome from the career folks there. We've seen people today, our fellow reporters, crying, hugging in the hallways. I've gotten text messages from sources, the Trump administration, the Biden administration.

No one is endorsing this.

What's your analysis, Ellie?

This is a crazy pick This is a dangerous pick. I wish there was a gentler way to say it, but there's no use mincing words. I was a prosecutor for a long time. Let me be specific as to why. The two fundamental qualities that you need in an attorney general are, one, qualifications, and two, independence. Okay, qualifications. Matt Gates has never worked a day in his life as a prosecutor. He has no idea what it means to stand in a court and say representing the United States. He has no idea what it means to indict someone and to potentially take their individual liberty away. He's only practiced law for a for a few years at the very local level. We've had AGs before. We've never been prosecutors, but they've all had serious positions in the Justice Department in non-prosecutorial roles. Matt Gates is completely unknown to this profession. With respect to his independence, Matt Gates is a firebrand. Matt Gates is the Trumpiest congressman on Capitol Hill. And that's not me talking. I pulled that word for word off of Matt Gates' Congressional bio about the congressman. He brags about that. He says he wears that as a badge of honor.

He is there to weaponize. I am not into these doomsday scenarios. I don't buy into them. But as somebody who spent a career at the Justice Department, this is of grave concern to me.

Yeah, a lot of people are concerned. David Chalian, you're a political director. What does it say that Trump decided to select Matt Gates to be the next attorney general?

I think it says a lot about Donald Trump feeling pretty good after this election and with his victory, and that he didn't hide the ball on this in any way on the campaign trail in terms of not the person, not the name, but the notion of what he wanted to do with the Justice Department, the person he wanted to see as attorney general. Donald Trump has no interest in an independent Justice Department. He's made that totally clear. That tradition does not interest him. He wants a Justice Department that will do his bidding, that will go after people, that he feel wronged him. I'm just relaying what Donald Trump told voters day in and day out on the campaign trail. I think what we saw here was, and listen, we don't know if Matt Gates is going to get confirmed. He obviously has problems inside the Republican Party, which in the Senate will control this process through the advice and consent role. But we do know that by Donald Trump putting his name forward, this is a marker. Donald Trump wants to have this fight. He wants to have it with his own party. He wants to stick it in the eye of any remnant of the establishment of norm of institutions.

That's That's what he's doing with this pick. If Matt Gates is not the pick, this will have been a cloud of controversy through which whoever is the pick will have a much easier time getting fit.

Wolf, I was critical of Trump's first AGs of Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr. I wrote a book critical of Bill Barr a few years ago. But the thing is, both of them had lines they wouldn't cross. Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation. Trump never forgave him for it, but it was the right move. Bill Barr mostly operated as a defender of Trump. Most of criticism of Bill Barr is that he manipulated things so he could protect Trump and Roger Stone and others. But what Bill Barr really would not do is use DOJ as an offensive weapon to go after people. Every indication, as David said, is that that's the strategy here.

Yeah, and there's no indication that the congressman, based on my reporting on him in the context of a criminal investigation, that he has any line. He really does feel victimized by the Justice Department, by the FBI. Trump also feels that way. They share that empathy, and really the only check on him, if he becomes the nation's top law enforcement official, will be the judiciary and juries.

All right, guys. Thank you very much. Excellent analysis all around.