Transcript of Former GOP senator explains why he decided to endorse Harris

We're witnessing something in this presidential election that did not happen the last two times that Donald Trump ran, at least not in the way that it's happening now. In 2016 and 2020, certainly some prominent Republicans criticized him, but not many, not in a big group. This time, though, we're seeing a slew of notable names on the right outright endorsing the Democratic nominee this time. Tonight, that list is growing because first we saw the vice president's team reward some of them with covited speaking spots at the Democratic National Convention. We've also seen endorsements from Republican dynasties, families that for decades have represented the core of the conservative movement, whether it's the late Senator John McCain's son or Liz and Dick Cheney themselves. My source tonight is adding his name to that list. Jeff Flake spent nearly two decades as a Republican on Capitol Hill representing Arizona in the House and in the Senate, before serving until recently as the US ambassador to Turkey. And he joins me now. Ambassador, it's great to have you. When you look But with this and your endorsement of Vice President Harris, what is it that leads a Republican who represented Arizona for so long to endorse a Democrat for that office?

Well, one, Conservatives, and I'm a conservative Republican not a moderate Republican. Conservatives believe in the rule of law. We want to preserve traditions. That's what Conservatives do. And at the top of that is the rule of law. And when you have a President lose an election and then try to use the powers of the presidency to hold on after being turned out by the voters, that is a big violation of the rule of law, and I don't see how I could support that President.

What is it about a potential second Trump term that worries you the most?

Well, the same as the first one. I mean, I had problems from the very beginning when Donald Trump in, what was it, 2012, when Barack Obama came in. Earlier than that, the whole birther issue. And then it went on from that. And the positions that the former President took just weren't very conservative. Certainly no free trade, limited government. We had a lot of spending. And then let me just say there's a long and storied tradition of Republicans supporting Democrats when the occasion arises. In 1991, when there was a Republican, a troublesome Republican in Louisiana. George H. W. Bush went and campaigned for the Democrat. So did several US Republican senators. And Barry Goldwater, Mr. Conservative himself, supported a Democrat running for Congress in Arizona because he knew that that Democrat would probably be beaten the next time. But in the meantime, the Republican wouldn't have represented the party well. And that's the situation we're in today.

I mean, that '91 race that you're talking about, that was when David Duke was running for governor of Louisiana. I mean, do you see similarities between that race and this one?

Not in the type. Not in the racism, certainly. I'm not making that allegation at all. But if you remember, and the Democrat that was running as well had been indicted on corruption charges. The bumper stickers at that time were, vote for the Crook, ' It's important. What I'm saying here is that if you have a Republican that is going to take Republicans down the wrong path, and if you have a Republican, like I said, who loses an election, a free and fair election, and then tries to use the powers of the presidency to hold on to power, then that's a threshold issue. I think that we, Republicans, ought to say, Let's turn the page. Let's move on, even if we have a Democrat in the meantime. That's So that's where I am.

Well, it's so interesting to hear you say that because a lot of people who are watching this show and have watched it are familiar with Republicans who come on who say, Donald Trump is not fit for office, but I like his policies better than I like Harris's. I think the first maybe most prominent is the former attorney general, Bill Barr, who has certainly argued that. I wonder, what do you say to those Republicans who argue that because they like his policies better than hers, that it's worth voting for him, even if they think he's not fit for office?

Well, all of us face that. As Republicans, we say, Well, I'm not going to vote for the former president. We have a lot of people saying that, but I just can't bring myself to vote for a Democrat. And in 2016, I voted for a third party candidate. 2020, I voted for Joe Biden. I've thought since 2016, you need to not just launch a protest vote. You have to vote for the alternative. And That's what I've done. I think that I'm not telling my fellow Republicans what to do, but that's what I think should be done.

But in your view, if you're not voting for Donald Trump, but also not voting for Harris, you view it as a wasted vote.

It can be seen that way. Like I say, I know Kamala Harris. I know Tim Walsh. I think that they would represent, frankly, conservative values better than the former President. Certainly respect for the rule of law, free trade, and understanding who our allies are abroad. I've spent the past three years abroad representing the United States, and I want to support a presidential candidate who knows that we have very real enemies abroad, but that we also have indispensable allies. They need to be supported. I want to vote for a president who knows the difference, and Kamala Harris knows the difference there.

Yeah. I mean, interesting to hear you say that you think they embody conservative values even more than Donald Trump does. It's a race overall. This weekend, we heard Donald Trump calling vice President Harris mentally disabled. That is a quote which obviously is offensive to people who do have disabilities. But he says that on the campaign trail. Today, he's saying that Kemp can't get in touch with Biden about the hurricane response. Kemp says that's not true. He talked to him last night. When you look at what's happened even the last 72 hours, what do you think the next 30 days of this campaign are going to look like?

Well, I think we don't just have to look at the last 72 hours. You can look far beyond that. This is calling people losers and clowns and deriding the country, saying that the country is run by stupid people. That's just unbecoming of what a conservative ought to be. Remember, a conservative, we trace our lineage back to Edmund Burke And so you're not just a conservative on trade or on physical conservatism. You ought to be a conservative in comportment as well and how you treat your fellow human beings. It used to be, we have a grand tradition of the other party just being the loyal opposition, but instead, they've been derided as clowns or losers, and in this case, mentally disabled. That doesn't comport well for conservatism, in my view.

Ambassador Jeff Lake, thank you for joining tonight.

Thank you much.