Transcript of Breaking down the findings of the House Ethics report on Matt Gaetz

Let's get right to the House Ethics Committee report on Matt Gates. We're learning more and more about the sex and drug allegations against the former Republican congressman who was forced to bow out as President-elect Trump's choice for US Attorney General. Cnn's Kaitlyn Polance has been studying the report and the supporting evidence that was released just a little while ago. Kaitlyn, give us the latest details. Wolf, the House has released this report. They've also released evidence that they gathered for it, and they spoke up to half a dozen witnesses who they say were able to put together the story. And they also looked at text messages. They traced payments, the story of Matt Gates for more than 20 times paying tens of thousands of dollars toward women, either for sex or for drugs. They're saying in those findings that it shows Matt Gates was engaged in commercial sex, so paying women in exchange for sex. At one point, paying a 17-year-old for sex, having sex with her at a party in 2017, in July of that year, twice, and giving her $400 in cash. The committee says they believe that could be statutory rape in the state of Florida, and then also taking illicit drugs.

Wolf, these are allegations that have hung over Matt Gates for quite some time. He was investigated by the Justice Department, and he was never charged. The committee also points out they do not believe he violated federal sex trafficking charges. While Gates is denying all of these allegations against him, the committee has assembled the text messages, the payment ledger, 11 pages long. One of the text messages I want to highlight is the thing that shows women were having a general expectation of sex. That's one of the ways the committee describes it. In this text message, one woman writes, Matt never paid me. How much did he pay you? Another says, He gave me 400. Then the other woman says, Hopefully he remembers I don't want to have to ask the response. Don't ask, just say it to him on Friday. Wolf, all of this is coming together after Gates leaves Congress. There was some internal dissent from the committee chairman about releasing this report. But even though the Committee Chairman says this report should not have been released when it was today, he doesn't take any issue with the findings of the House Ethics Committee. All right, Kaitlyn Pollant's reporting for us.

Thanks very much. We're joined by our legal and political experts right now Let me start with Scott Jenning. Scott, Matt Gates is a MAGA firebrand, as we all know, a close advisor, at least he was, of Trump. So this report lays out a lot of evidence of him paying women thousands and thousands of dollars for sex, including to a 17-year-old girl. Is that the MAGA brand? No, I don't think so. Certainly not the Republican brand. And as you noted in the report, he's not going to be in the President's cabinet. He's no longer in Congress. And so I don't particularly I really feel the need to be interested in it or defend it, to be candid with you. He's got to either deny or deal with whatever the fallout from this is. But I'm somebody who is interested in people in the Republican Party who are actually in office and actually moving forward to in the country right now, and he's not one of them. Megan Hayes, what concerns does this report raise for you? Look, I agree with Scott here. He's no longer in office. This is really nothing. I think that where the concern comes in is if he wants run for office again.

He floated yesterday running for governor in Florida or running for Senate in Florida. That is concerning to me. I don't think these are people we should have holding higher office. So I think that that's one of those things that is concerning to me. But I think that in terms of it being out, this is gross. These are despicable allegations, and he should be held accountable as much as he can be. But I think it's when he runs for office again is where it's concerning to the public. Elyce Adamson is with us. And Elyce, you're a former federal prosecutor. Given all of this evidence that was released today, why didn't the US Justice Department pursue actual charges against him? And does this report possibly reopen gates to prosecution right now? Those are all really good questions, Wolf. I think the first thing people need to understand is that one of the most serious allegations in this report was the statutory rape allegation, the sex with a 17-year-old girl. That is a state law charge. That is not something that would have been wrapped up in that federal investigation if it was separate from the sex trafficking, and the statute of limitations has now run on that.

With respect to the potential federal charges, that would have to be trafficking. That means that Matt Gates would have had to bring these people, these women, over state lines for sex. And it seems from the report that that was hard to establish, especially with respect to the minor. Then the other acts of the sexual contact for money, that was all consensual. And so the federal government only tries cases where people have been taken over state lines for coercion, fraud, duress. There's some abuse of that is simply missing from these allegations where it is all consensual. There is another lesser charged, older statute called the Man Act, which could sweep some of that conduct in. But again, prosecutors do not use that tool anymore when it is just consensual prosecution. Prostitution, those cases are usually handled at the state level. So I have not read anything in this report that I think would invite further federal investigations, and then again, a lot of the state charges, the statute of limitations have already run. Interesting. Scott, how does it reflect on President-elect Trump that Gates was his first choice to become the attorney general of the United States, the top law enforcement officer in the nation?

Well, it was a rough eight days because because this stuff had been laying out there, and obviously, they didn't think through the vetting that was going to go on for this appointment. I mean, let's be honest. That's why it only lasted for eight days, that and the fact that he had a number of enemies up on Capitol Hill. But to President Trump's credit, he immediately realized it, pivoted out of it, and went to Pam Bondi, who, as I understand it from the Senate and all of her meetings, is getting terrific marks on her nomination. All of her meetings are going well, and everybody's really happy with where he landed. So this was a case where started in a bad place, wound up in a good place, and the person who's ultimately going to be attorney general is a two term AG from Florida who's well liked across the Republican Party. So in this case, we're going to get a good outcome, even if it didn't start great. Megan, Trump, as you know, has a long history himself of sexual misconduct. Conduct allegations. His choice for defense secretary is facing sexual assault allegations. Much of Gates's conduct was known actually before this Ethics Committee report was released when Trump wanted him to be the attorney general.

What has What does all this say about the culture in Trump world? Look, I think that Donald Trump cares about one thing, and that's loyalty to him. I don't think he necessarily cares about people's character or what they do in their lives or what they've been accused of. I mean, all these allegations against Hegset or Donald Trump or Matt Gates are gross and despicable, and we shouldn't have to have these people in elected office. But the President-elect cares about one thing, and that's loyalty. So that's the Republican Party's, I guess, prerogative to have that leadership, but it's something as a Democrat I would want for my party. Elyce, one woman in this House Ethics Committee report said she felt violated by Gates, and another said, and I'm quoting her now, I think about it all the time, adding, I still see him when I turn on the TV and there's nothing anyone can do. It's frustrating to know I lived a reality that he denies. Is it possible you think these women might pursue legal action against Gates? Yeah, well, absolutely. Just because criminal cases can no longer be filed doesn't mean that they will not file civil suits.

I believe that is also something that was referenced in the House Ethics Committee report with respect to victim A, that her lawyer got in touch with former Representative Gates' lawyers, threatening a lawsuit, and they're perfectly entitled to. And this is a good example of victims still able to seek justice. Some people may paint it as trying to seek money for their victimhood, but at the same time, if the justice system has failed them as it is, and many are traumatized for life, there is still legal recourse through a civil suit. Scott, do you think the gates should be able to hold public office again? Well, I mean, that would be up to the voters to decide. But I've been on a few campaigns in my life, and these kinds of allegations would seem to me to be really problematic. I would also just note that he And he's been something of a troublemaker in the Republican Party. I mean, he did join all the Democrats to up in the Republican Party's leadership in the last Congress and caused a protracted issue for the party. And so there have been times when not only has he caused himself personal problems like this allegations in these reports, but he's also caused the party problems as well.

And so if he runs again, the voters are going to have to take all this into consideration, just like Donald Trump had to take it all into consideration when the nomination was pulled after eight days and decided to go a different direction. My suspicion is he'd have a primary if he ran somewhere and the voters would have to figure out if they wanted somebody with this hanging over their head or somebody else. Yeah. All right, guys. Thanks very much. Joining us now, Republican congressman and Senator-Elect Jim Banks of Indiana. Senator-elect, thanks so much for joining us. Congratulations on your win. Last month, you said you supported Matt Gates for attorney general of the United States. Has your opinion of him changed at all after this report laying paying out all this evidence of him paying women for sex, including a 17-year-old girl? Well, obviously, the contents of the report are serious, and Matt Gates likely didn't just resign from Congress, but withdrawn his name for consideration to be the attorney general. He's moved on. Congress has moved on. Donald Trump and the country have moved on. We're focused now on confirming Donald Trump's nominees to his cabinet so we can do job in January to get this country back on the right track again.

So obviously, the nature of the contents of the report are serious. They've now been made public. But Matt Gates deserves the right to defend himself. He will do that, but he's a private citizen person, and the country expects us in Congress to focus on what matters, and that's getting the Trump agenda done that he want to mandate on election day to pursue. Based on all the evidence that we now have, including this House Ethics Committee report, do Do you think Matt Gates is actually fit to serve in any future public office? Well, look, I don't live in Matt Gates state of Florida. I live in Indiana. And in Indiana, again, we're focused. Election Day showed in Indiana, we're overwhelmingly focused on advancing Donald Trump's agenda, the America First agenda. And I just got elected to the United States Senate. My job is to go to work on January third. I get sworn into the Senate and to focus on securing our border, growing our military, making our military strong again with adversaries around the world like China and others who are trying to beat America in many ways, militarily and economically. Look, that's what I'm focused on, the The report speaks for itself.

If Matt Gates ever puts his name on the ballot again, then his voters can make that decision. He has a right to defend himself, like I said before, and I know he will do that. I served with eight years with Matt. He's very smart. He's very talented. I know that he will do everything that he can to clear his name, and he has a right to do that. But the contents of this ethics report are very serious. I expect the public to react to it in a serious way. He's not a nominee. He's not a congressman anymore. He's a private citizen, and the country expects us to move on. Joining us now, CNN Political Commentator, Brad Todd, Jasmine Wright, Political Reporter for Notice, and CNN Political Commentator, Van Jones. It's good to see you all. Jasmine, as we look at this, the fact that the House Ethics Committee had initially voted along party lines to keep this report sealed, what changed? What convinced some Republicans on the Ethics Committee to instead change their vote and release this report? Yeah, Erica. Well, I think you're right. There was always going to be a question of whether they would, whether they not.

But ultimately, two Republicans sided with Democrats to release this report. That's not, of course, the chair. The chair didn't want that out. He said it within the report. Another other Democrat on that bipartisan committee. But I think what's really interesting here is that this is a committee of Matt Gates' peers, former peers and potentially future peers that voted to release that. They said that it was for transparency's sake making the case that the American public deserve to know what a sitting member of Congress was accused of. Now, of course, Matt Gates has denied all these allegations. In fact, accused this committee of weaponizing this information that he again denies as false against him. But still, this was a group of his peers really pushing this information out into the public zeitgeist, not into the court of law, but of course, the court of public opinion in a really stunning example Because, of course, we know that Matt Gates resigned from Congress. Yeah, it's such an important point, the fact that they clearly wanted this information out there, as you say, in the court of public opinion. Van, when we look at this, as recently as yesterday, you had Matt Gates floating the idea of another run for office, knowing this Court, right, was likely coming out.

Today, you have Trump ally Steve Bannon saying, Gates has to come back, don't back down, double down. In this world that we live in, let's say Matt Gates does launch a potential bid for office. Does any of this serve as disqualifying in any way for voters? Well, it used to. It would have. It's hard to know in this environment, we find ourselves now. The one thing that's very clear is Gates has a lot of enemies. He had people in his own party that all they had to do was just go with their party chair, go with the committee chair, and go with President, and this would have had to be leaked, but at least it wouldn't have been put out in this way. This lets you know this guy has POed some serious people in serious places that we're talking about this tonight, but does it make him a martyr or a villain to Florida voters? We'll We'll probably find out pretty soon. When we look at this, just because Matt Gates obviously withdraw that nomination for AG, it doesn't mean that there could not be a role in a Trump administration, Brad, that does not require Senate confirmation, where we could see him as a part of that administration.

How do you see this report impacting those chances? To Van's point, martyr or villain, does this elevate or lower his status with Donald Trump? Well, I I think, first off, his relationship with Donald Trump is from the campaign, where he was a key member of their debate prep team. I think Donald Trump knows what he got with Matt Gates. Donald Trump has pulled him back after he was clear he was not going to get the votes in the Senate, and he didn't have a problem of three or four votes. He had a problem of 23 or 24 votes in the Senate that he was not going to get from Republicans. I also think you have to look at the makeup of this ethics committee. Michael Guester is the chairman, is a former prosecutor. You have another former prosecutor on there and a former sheriff on there on or just on the Republican side. These are serious people who look into these things with all due process. They're charged with not only upholding the rules of the House, but also the reputation of the House. They find in the report, if you read the details of the report, there are several indications that perhaps Matt Gates was guilty of accepting favors and gifts that violate the House gift banal.

That's exactly the thing that the Ethics Committee is charged with enforcing. I think he knew he was going to have a problem with the Ethics Committee. That's why he skated out of Congress. That's why he resigned from the next Congress when he didn't even have to. He could have gone in the next Congress and wated out his nomination chances for attorney general. But instead, he resigned from both congresses. I think that tells you a lot. We also know Matt Gates didn't sit for an interview. They asked him back in July to come sit for a voluntary interview or respond to a subpoena for the Ethics Committee. He chose not to do that. Those things also tell us things about where he stands regarding the charges. Jess, when we look at all of this, what are you hearing from your sources in terms of whether or not we may hear Donald Trump weigh in publicly? Yeah, well, what I've heard from my sources, people close to Trump, is that some are actually surprised that the report actually came out because Matt Gates is no longer a sitting member of Congress because the way that he resigned.

But I think the question on a lot of people's minds in and around Mar-a-Lago, and certainly here in DC, is whether or not Trump is going to publicly come out and bless this. I think what we've seen in the reality getting to Van's first point, is that some of these Republicans live in different realities, which is that if you are a Trump loyalist, you have a different playbook. And a report like this may not be as damaging as somebody who is not within Trump's favor. Now, one thing And the thing that I heard from somebody is that if he does bless Matt Gates, right, to put his hand over him, that will take a lot of political capital for the President-elect. So maybe there's a chance that if he doesn't go to own network and that he doesn't go back to Congress, that he becomes a member of the administration in a seat that doesn't need to be confirmed. But there's a major question of if Trump is getting all of these different guidances and reports from his advisors, which way he'll go. And I think that's a largely a major question here. Yeah, we will be watching and waiting.

There may be 500- Go ahead. Well, there's 535 members of Congress, and there might be three of them that want Matt Gates in some job in the administration. So the President-elect may factor that his unpopular in Congress before he does anything. We'll see. Or maybe Elon Musk will weigh in. Who knows? Oh, it'll be a fly on the wall. Brad Jasmin-Vann, thank you all. Democratic congressman, Glenn Ivy of Maryland. He is a member of the House Ethics Committee. Congressman, thank you very much for your time tonight. The contents of this report are very serious. I'm hearing that from Republicans and Democrats alike today. What is the most damning thing in this report, in your opinion? Well, I think you covered a lot of it, certainly the allegations or the findings with respect to the sex with the 17-year-old are very powerful. The prostitution issues and the like, there's a lot there. It's overwhelming, I think, in some ways when you read it all and put it all together. Our staff did a great job of doing a very thorough investigation and bringing us the information so we could do that, put it in the report, and allow the public to see it now.

Gates has responded to all of this saying he did nothing wrong. He denies the allegations. He filed this lawsuit that I mentioned this morning, essentially trying to block its release, accusing the committee, essentially, of defaming him and engaging. The way he put it was an unprecedented overreach that threatens fundamental constitutional rights in releasing the report. How do you respond to him tonight? Well, I think the point is that the report is out there now and the public can see it and review it and decide for themselves what they think. And your lead in report mentioned other possibilities as far as where there's Department of Justice or local law enforcement taking a look at these things, too. It's available for them as well. Mr. Gates has the right. He's got First Amendment rights just like anybody else. He's got a very big platform as well. He's got the right to say his position and give his points of view, and the public can take a listen to all of it and draw their own conclusions. I'm sure people know your background, but before being in public office, you were a state's attorney. You have a long career in law.

Do you think that local law enforcement? Do you think that people should look further into potentially charging him? Well, you're right. I do have a background as a federal prosecutor, state prosecutor, and the like. One One thing that I always tried to do and do now is to leave it to the people who are in those positions to draw their own conclusions. Sometimes they have to take a look at the evidence and decide what they have to prove as far as the elements for the statutes in their particular state or with the Department of Justice for the Federal Offenses. But there's a lot there. How they decide to move forward with it is up to them. But again, I think it was important for the public to see it and also for colleagues to see it so they understand what the committee was doing, why it took so long, and how to conform their conduct as they go through this. One of the important parts about releasing reports is it gives guidance to our colleagues about what's over the line and what's not. And I think we tried to do that here. As I said, he denies the allegations.

He also attacked the credibility of the witnesses that spoke to the committee. Just to put it out there, how confident are you, congress, in the fidelity of this report, the conclusions, the evidence you gathered? I think the evidence is strong, and the substantial evidence finding that we reach, I think, is certainly very well supported by the evidence and the testimony of the people that you mentioned back up by the text messages, backed up by the financial records. We put it all together and put it out there. That's my take. The bottom line, though, is what does the public decide? I always thought that sunlight is the best disinfectant. This is important for us to put that out there and give the public a chance, too, to take a look at Congress as a whole. The Ethics Committee is charged with making sure that we're doing the right thing and stand on the right track. But ultimately, we all know that the public has the final word on who comes back and who doesn't. It's important for them to know that there's stuff like this going on in Washington. On that note, I mean, some members of the Ethics Panel did not want to put out this report.

As Gates is no longer a member of Congress. It was only described as dissenting members in the final page of the report. But here's what it said in part, The decision to publish a report after his resignation breaks from the committee's long-standing practice, opens the committee to undo criticism and will be viewed by some as an attempt to weaponize the committee's process. Did you struggle with that? Not so much. I mean, actually, there have been four instances in recent history, one per decade, actually, over the past 40 years, where the committee decided to release a report even after a member had left his service in Congress. I think it's appropriate here, especially given the nature of the findings that we published here. I think, as I said, it's important for the public to see it and draw their own conclusions. There were certainly colleagues that dissented, and they cited one instance that they tried to distinguish, but I really didn't say anything about the other three. I'd note, too, that the Senate's done this as well in certain cases. I think we're on pretty firm ground here, and I trust that our colleagues, we've been able to work together in a very bipartisan way on this committee dating back to the Santos findings in that investigation.

There's a bunch of other ones that have taken place between now and then. We've always managed to work well together in a very good and bipartisan way. I trust we'll to do that moving forward. Congressman Glenivy, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Yesterday, President-elect Trump gave a shout out to Gates. Remember, Trump had picked him to be attorney general, but that idea went down in flames. A friend of mine who I haven't seen in a little while, Matt Gates is here. Where's Matt? He's around here someplace. Matt Gates. He's got a big career set up, and I just want to say hello to Matt. Now, that was before this report came out at the same event. And before the report, Gates himself trolled some of his critics while assessing his own future. Many have asked which perch I will be fighting from next. My fellow Floridians have asked me to eye the governor's mansion in Tallahassee. Maybe special counsel to go after the insider trading for my former colleagues in Congress. It seems I may not have had enough support in the United States Senate. Maybe I'll just run for Marco Rubio's vacant seating the United States Senate and join some of those folks.

So does this report change that? My first source tonight is CNN crime and justice correspondent, Kaitlyn Paul Lance. Thank you so much for being here, Kaitlyn, on this Christmas Eve Eve. Can you walk us through the pages and pages of evidence the committee found that they say backs up their report? Yes, Sarah, that evidence that the committee is putting out there, not just in narrative form as part of this report that's about 40 pages long, but also in appendices that they've attached. They're showing things like text messages where Matt Gates is asking women to bring him drugs. They're showing volumes of payments on payment platforms like Venmo, Cash App, PayPal, showing women being paid hundreds of dollars from either his personal accounts or accounts affiliated with him. That looks like 11 pages of Excel spreadsheets, essentially. They say things in these transactions that are payments, at least 20 of them are payments for what the House believes are for sex or for drugs being made to women. The line items on them are saying things like they're for groceries, dry clean, dinner, reimbursement, relaxation, $300 at one point to the Easter Bunny, $400 for being awesome, and then $12 for kale.

Sarah, that is part of the evidence, but there's also more on top of that. There are witnesses that spoke to the committee, including this woman who was 17 at the time she had sex with Matt Gates in 2017, when he was still a sitting congressman. She did testify to the committee and speak to them about her experience. What more did the committee learn about Gates's interactions with the 17-year-old that they're saying they understood he allegedly paid for sex. That's right. What they learned from both the woman, the girl at the time who was a victim here, is that she was having sex with Gates twice at a party, that there were other people there at one point in time that she received $400 in cash from him that evening, which she understood was to be payment for sex. The committee says they have this corroborated from other witnesses that they have, and they write They write then that even though Matt Gates was not necessarily or saying he did not know that she was 17 at the time and never asked her age, they write that after he learned that victim A was a minor, he maintained contact in less than six months after she turned 18.

He met up with her again for commercial sex. The report is out, and it also accuses them of breaking state laws and federal laws, but the federal case did not go forward. Could there be state charges in this? Well, Sarah, that is a question for the state of Florida and investigators there. We know that the federal government did investigate Matt Gates for the possible violation of federal sex trafficking laws. They did not charge him with any crime declined to charge him. The House Ethics Committee then picked up their investigation, and in the report today, they, too, did not find evidence to conclude he may have violated federal sex trafficking laws. But on the state question, what the House found is that they believe that he may have committed statutory rape when he had sex with this girl in 2017, and that that could be in violation of Florida's law. They also say that they think it's possible he may have lied to them, made false statements, or tried to obstruct this Congressional investigation. But what happens next? Those are questions for authorities that we just won't know the answer to yet. We certainly know that Matt Gates is talking about trying to run for office in Florida.

Certainly before this report came out, but he is saying he has done nothing wrong. Kaitlyn Pollantz, thank you so much. I want to bring in my political sources tonight. Senior advisor to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign, Karen Finney, and former senior advisor to Senator Mitch McDonald, Scott Jennings. Thank you both for being here. Scott, let's start with you. Gates slamming the report, defending himself in online posts. Here's one where he claims, quote, Giving funds to someone you are dating that they didn't ask for and that isn't charged for for sex is now prostitution and that he was never charged with a crime. Gates has repeatedly framed the Justice Department's decision not to charge him as an exoneration. We know that that isn't how this works. No prosecutor has actually come out to clear Gates, but he was never charged. What do you make of all of this and the fact that the Ethos report is out and it has got some really damning information in it? Yeah, I'll be candid with you. I don't make much of because most of the details or most of the stories that we heard, we already knew. I mean, a lot of this stuff was already swirling in the public domain anyway.

Number two, Matt Gates is no longer in Congress. Number three, Matt Gates is no longer under consideration to be in Donald Trump's cabinet. As far as I'm concerned, he's a private citizen in Florida, and I'm sure he has a story to tell about this. If he runs for office again, he'll have to explain what's in this report, and we'll see what the voters say about this. But honestly, of all the things that happened in Washington, DC, today, to me, this is a low priority when you consider what Joe Biden did over at the White House, commuting all the sentences of these terrible people using the power of the presidency. He's still in office. Gates is gone, and yet there seems to be more outrage about Gates over stuff that, frankly, is old news. Well, there's a lot of information that has come out that, frankly, people didn't know about, including, I know the talk of statutory rape, but that the Ethics Committee found this is significant. We will talk about what Joe Biden did in just a bit with those commutations. Karen, I want you to listen to what Representative Glenn Ivy, a Democrat who sits on the House Ethics Committee, said to CNN's Kate Baldwin tonight.

Listen. I think the evidence is strong, and the substantial evidence finding that we reach, I think is certainly very well supported by the evidence and the testimony of the people that you mentioned, backed up by the text messages, backed up by the financial records. We put it all together and put it out there. So That's my take. The bottom line, though, is what does the public decide? Everyone knows that the Ethics Committee is not a court of law, but it is about the ethics of a member of Congress and whether or not it is appropriate. Given, though, that the report has no real legal teeth, is this an attempt to win the battle of public perception or something else? That may be part of it, but I think there are a couple of reasons why this report actually matters. Scott is a great communicator. He did a really lovely job there, trying to diminish the importance of this. But there's a couple of things that do matter. Number one, remember that when Donald Trump initially nominated Gates, he was talking about recess appointments, which would have meant that Gates would not have had to go through any formal hearing.

And he was pressing that the report not be released. I say that because it is a reminder. This is why the hearings for each of these cabinet committees matters. It's important that every single one of those individuals go through the process. I think Trump has finally come around realizing they're not going to let him get away with just trying to shove some of this stuff under the rug and pass these people through. I mean, imagine someone like Matt Gates as the attorney general of the United States of America. I mean, he has a disgusting sleazeball. Secondly, I think it's important. I heard some of the members. I was reading with some of their comments. I think they felt that this was damaging enough that it was important that younger members, newer members understand that there is accountability and that this behavior is inappropriate. One of the things I didn't know that I read in the report, he actually created a fake email account from his office in the Capitol, which he was using to buy drugs. I mean, not only is that stupid, it's incredibly inappropriate and not someone who should be serving, certainly not in Congress.

I think it's important that we hold leaders accountable. Unfortunately, I have a convicted felon as president, so we missed that vote. But again, I think there are some very important facts that came out today that are very relevant. This is a bipartisan... The Ethics Committee is bipartisan. I think it's evenly split. So a Republican would have had to have voted to release this report. I'm curious for you, Scott, because you mentioned the possibility that Gates might run for office. Does he have a political future in the world that we live in now? Well, a couple of things. Number one, listening to Karen's explanation of this, I just want to remind everyone, Matt Gates is no longer in Congress. Matt Gates is no longer under consideration for being in the cabinet. Matt Gates is not going to be recess appointed to anything. I feel like there's an effort today to make it feel like we're six weeks ago. We're living in the now. The now is after he thought about it, Donald Trump dumped Matt Gates and got Pam Bondi, and she's going to be an amazing attorney general. Matt Gates thought better of it, and he resigned from Congress, and we'll see what he does.

Regarding his political future, anybody can run. The voters have to look at your whole record and decide what to do. I would assume, I'm no super genius, but I would assume having a report like this hanging out there over your head, you'd have to explain it when you ran for Congress. It would probably be problematic if some of the other people involved in the report came forward. But that's for him to decide, and I really have no idea what he's going to do.