Transcript of A Private Matter, Episode 1

I'm Jason Moon. You can get an ad-free version of this season for just $20. Go to patreon.com/bearbrook or follow the link in the show notes. Thanks for your support. Looking back, the whole thing could have been a Hallmark Christmas movie, or at least it would have started out like one. It all takes place in the little town of Epsom, New Hampshire, population 5,000. And in this little town, on the side of a little mountain, there's a Christmas tree farm.

Everyone I knew, if you were local in Epsom, you knew of the tree farm.

This is Katie Bartocci. In the Hallmark movie, she'd play one of the supporting characters, the voice of the town, We always got our Christmas tree there.

My family always got their Christmas tree there. My sisters always got their Christmas tree there.

Katie grew up on a road that leads to the Christmas tree farm. Every year, she watched cars drive by with freshly cut trees strapped on top.

So I'd be like, oh, somebody else got a tree, somebody else got a tree. And it was like constant, like people would be coming up and down the road with trees.

To get to the tree farm, you take a dirt road through the woods and up the side of the mountain. High enough to make your ears pop.

You get to the top of it and it's just like the weather was always so crazy. I remember every time we went up there, you either like, if it was 50 degrees down where I lived, it was like 20 degrees up there.

When you reach the end of the road, the farm is on either side of you. Fields of grass with neat rows of Christmas trees of different heights. And then there's everything you'd expect from a classic New England farm. a stone wall, a barn, and a farmhouse that's older than the Constitution. And it's in that farmhouse that the Hallmark movie's main characters live, Patricia and John Hickey, Patty and Jay. If the tree farm was an institution in Epsom, so were Patty and Jay. Patty was the town's welfare officer for nearly 30 years. Jay was even more civically involved. Over the course of his life, it seemed like he'd held just about every single post in town government, from the rescue squad to the select board. Add to that assistant coach of the local baseball team, which was sponsored by the Christmas tree farm. In the fall, Patty and Jay would hire local kids to help out for the Christmas season.

Here's Owen Thomas and Colby Kalnan, I mean, honestly, it wasn't too much. We would just— they had like a little car and they'd just keep that on all day, keep us heated. And me and my buddies would just kind of sit there and play games and stuff until a car came up. Sometimes Jay would come out and talk to them. He knew— it seemed like he knew a lot about the trees.

He would go and start talking about his blue spruces and he would really get into the work that he was putting in in the summertime to make it all happen. And I'll tell you, he is very, very passionate about Christmas trees.

The farm was Jay's baby. He'd owned it since the early 1970s. Patty moved in about a decade later, and together they had a blended family of 5 kids. Jay had a big fluffy mustache that swept down and out on either side of his mouth like 2 wings taking flight on his face. Patty wore glasses and had long straight hair.

She's always got a smile. Always, always, always had a smile on her face. Very— she'd talk to a wall if you let her. Patty was borderline Mrs. Claus, if you will.

Mrs. Claus and the Christmas tree farmer. The movie practically writes itself. Jay and Patty grow old together on McCoy Mountain, surrounded by their blue spruce Christmas trees. They reach their mid-70s. It's just the two of them now. Their kids have long since grown up and moved away. And then things change. Things go off script. Jay starts having memory issues. He stops driving. In 2020, he retires from his latest post as the town's zoning compliance officer. Meadow Wysocki worked with Jay in town government at the time.

When we noticed the decline, he started withdrawing. I mean, I think that was probably the first thing that I saw was that when you were around him, he was very, hesitant to say things to people, like he wasn't quite sure if he was following what was being discussed or that what he was going to say was going to be appropriate. So I think he just kind of shut down.

Jay is diagnosed with dementia. Patty becomes his caretaker, which she now has to juggle alongside her role as the town welfare officer. The job involves helping out residents who've fallen on hard times with loans or other assistance programs. If you suddenly can't afford to pay your heating bill in the dead of winter, Patty was the person to call.

She would put her office hours around times that she could bring him in with her so that she could, you know, keep track of him and stuff. And I know when we were doing our move from the former office's location to the current office location that he had attended with her. to help with pack— or when she was packing her office. Um, but she had to leave because he kind of wandered off because she couldn't keep track of him, you know, really closely. And he was out in front of the building kind of wandering around.

Most people with dementia will wander at least once. Many will do so repeatedly. Scientists don't know exactly why it happens, but inside the brain of a dementia patient, The nerve cells are dying, taking memories, motor skills, even parts of personality with them. One day, a neighbor finds Jay walking around in the snow without shoes. Another time, a landscaping worker finds him standing at an intersection more than a mile from the farm wearing pajamas and slippers. Jay tells the landscaper he needs to get to a meeting at the town offices. Some people start to wonder if Patty is taking on too much. Being the town's welfare officer and a caretaker for someone with dementia, it's a lot. And then in March 2024, Jay makes the evening news. He's disappeared. Right now, Epsom police are searching for a 76-year-old man with dementia. Police think he wandered away from his residence, My mom gave Pat a call just to—

just to say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, we're gonna look for him. Like, like, let— you know, let us know if there's anything we can do.

On the main Facebook group in town, there's an outpouring of concern. People offer prayers. They offer to help in a search. But some people also have questions. Something is off about the timeline of the whole situation. The news report says the last time Jay was seen was in October 2023. So why are the police just now getting involved in March 2024, 5 months later? And then there was the way Patty was acting. The news of Jay's disappearance broke on a Friday. The next day, Saturday, just so happened to be the annual Meet the Candidates forum at the Epsom Public Library. Patty was running for reelection as public welfare officer, so she was slated to give a speech. But not everyone expected she actually would, given that police were actively searching for her missing husband. Katie Bartocci says her mom was at the meeting. She called Katie, As soon as it ended.

She said, you're not going to believe it, Pat was actually there. And I said, no way. Did she say anything about Jay? No, nothing. She said that she's rerunning for welfare coordinator and she's going to play it by ear whether she continues on or not, like year after year. But she did a speech and she was put together and she was— nothing was— nothing seemed out of place besides the fact that she didn't mention anything about Jay.

Another person who was at the meeting told me the same thing. It wasn't that Patty was acting strange. It was that she was acting strangely normal. Around the same time, a woman named Kathy O'Meara sees the news that Jay is missing. Kathy was the Hickey family's longtime babysitter. She was close with them. She decides to go check on Patty. She has a bad feeling about this. How could 5 months have passed before Jay was reported missing? When Kathy arrives, police are there, searching the Christmas tree farm with cadaver dogs.

And I just stood outside and talked to her, and I really just wanted to look her in the face and say, Pat, what happened? What's going on? Because just knowing someone for that long, you just— I knew something wasn't right.

So what did she say to you?

Um, it was very evasive. She's just like, yeah, you know, but that's very calm. Like, she's always been like that, kind of like, yeah, I know Jay's missing.

But Kathy says even for Patty, calm as she may be, it was an odd moment to be so relaxed.

If you think about, you know, you're standing there talking to someone— I hadn't seen her in person for a while— And then, like, people are walking all around your property with dogs and police. And she was just very, like, yeah, matter of fact. Yep, he's missing. I'm like, well, where is he, Pat?

Where is he, Pat? The police had the same question.

One day last year, detectives knocked on the door of a multimillion-dollar mansion in Los Angeles County. Inside, they found a strange scene— a dining area converted into classrooms, with children and toddlers seated at rows of desks. The couple that lived there? Had 21 kids.

It's a house that looks like a castle, but it's under investigation for being a possible factory, a baby factory.

Where had these children come from? Almost all of them were born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.

Me and my coworker, we named her the surrogate pimp.

That's the one time that we called the cops because she was screaming.

And then he pulled out a gun.

I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?

I'm Ava Kaufman. The Journey is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker. Find it now in the In the Dark feed, wherever you get your podcasts.

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And I'm Danny Gold. And we're the hosts of The Underworld Podcast. We're journalists that have traveled all over reporting on dangerous people and places. And every week, we'll be bringing you a new story about organized crime from all over the world.

Available wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Moon. You can get an ad-free version of this season for just $20. Go to patreon.com/barebrook or follow the link in the show notes. Thanks for your support. Hey, it's Jason. Before we get on with the story, just a quick note on season 2 of Bear Brook. A True Crime Story. I know it's been a long time since our last update, more than 2 and a half years, actually. I just wanna let you know we are still following Jason Carroll's case. When we get results from the DNA testing, that is, believe it or not, still in progress, we will update that season. The best way to make sure you don't miss it is to follow the Bear Brook feed on your favorite podcasting app. I first learned Jay Hickey was missing a couple years ago, in May 2024. About 3 months after the news broke about his disappearance, someone reached out to me with a tip. A lot of strangeness is starting to emerge, they wrote. Though I got to be honest, to me, The whole thing seemed sad, but not all that unusual. An older man with dementia wanders off in the woods of New Hampshire.

New Hampshire has one of the oldest populations in the country. Dementia rates are on the rise. There are a lot of woods around here to get lost in. And as far as the missing man's elderly wife, Patty, she could be in decline too. Tragic, but again, not unexpected. But then I made a few calls, which led to a few more. And the deeper I got, the more I realized the tipster was right. A lot of strangeness did emerge. It started when I got my hands on a recording of Patty's police interrogation.

This is Chris Elphick with the New Hampshire State Police. It is Wednesday, February 28th, 2024, at 1:18 PM. Police Department with Lieutenant James Keir and Patricia, but Patty.

It's okay.

Hickey, right?

Yes.

And which—

how do you spell your last name?

H-I-C-K-E-Y.

At the Epsom Police Department, population 6 officers, Patty sits down with Lieutenant James Keir and a state police detective named Chris Elphick. It's 2 days before police announce Jay's disappearance to the public.

Patty, it's okay if I record our conversation, right?

Yes.

And you're here on your own accord? You drove yourself here?

Yes.

We're in the conference room. If at any time you're like, I want to leave. Free to do so.

Okay.

Just, uh, I don't know the way out of here, so the lieutenant—

Yeah, good luck.

Remember, Patty worked in Epsom town government for 3 decades. She's been to the police station before, and maybe because of that, she doesn't sound all that nervous. She even cracks a joke with the cops. Just a few minutes into their chat, Patty mentions she didn't eat lunch, and Lieutenant Keir Offers her some almonds.

Would you like a few almonds?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Grab some almonds.

And some water?

They're not sealed.

No, that's okay.

Okay.

But, um, 'cause I don't think you're trying to poison me, so I'm all set. No, no, no. That should help. But, uh, um, some water?

A poison joke with the cops questioning her about her missing husband. Maybe it seemed like the perfect icebreaker in Patty's head. After some more chitchat, Detective Elphick of the New Hampshire State Police Gets down to it.

Sure. So when's the last time you saw Jay?

I see him every day up here. Um, okay, let me think. I have to work backwards here. Did I see him coming? This is February.

Mm-hmm.

I thought he was at his brother's all winter, so it was definitely in October. October of 2013.

Okay.

Patty explains that by the previous October in 2023, Jay was feeling humiliated by his dementia. He didn't want all the Christmas tree customers to see him that way. He wanted to get away.

So he said he wanted to go down and visit his brothers. So I'm like, okay, okay, so do you want me to Do you want me to call them and make arrangements for transportation? He said, no, I'll do that when I'm here. And I said, are you sure? Because I can call them and talk to them while you're here.

Sure.

And he said, no, I'll take care of it. Don't worry about it. So I said, okay. And I wasn't bossy. If he had a decision about something, I wasn't— The type of person to think that I should be the one in charge.

Right. So, so at what point did he, did he leave, or did you come home and he wasn't there one day?

I came home and, uh, he was not there, and I figured that he went with his brother. They came and picked him up.

Patty says she figured Jay was just at his brother's house out of state. Only by this point, Patty knows the police have figured out Jay is not with his brothers.

So if he's not with the brothers, which he's not with his brothers.

Yeah.

Where do you think he is?

Good question. I don't have a clue. And actually, even though I was like, you know, the dogs, and I'm like, I don't want them to find him dead. I would. I'm alive somewhere, but, um, I don't know.

If he was to arrange a car service or whatever, how would he pay for it? Do you guys have— not, not to get— do you guys have credit cards, or how would you pay for it?

No, he, he gave me his credit card, oh, I don't know, years ago and said, I don't want this.

Okay.

And, um, but he had a stash of cash somewhere.

Does he have a phone?

This is his phone.

That's his phone?

He didn't take it. Yeah.

Uh, Patty is saying she came home one day to find her husband of 40-odd years gone. The one with dementia, who's been wandering, can't drive, and who left his phone behind. And assumes he just left to visit his brother out of state. Which is why Patty is not even the one who called to report Jay missing.

So you haven't talked to him since October?

Right.

No, see, no, haven't seen him or heard from him in October. Have you been concerned about where he is at all?

Like, what would it be? Well, not till lately because I thought he was with his brothers.

But would it be unlike him to not talk to you for all this time?

Considering the amount of time that he sleeps and he's not like with the pro— you know, not here and now. Um, I, I just figured he was spending those few minutes with his brothers, not—

Have you ever— have you called the brothers to check on him at all?

Just when we were trying, trying to, when the police came to look for him.

Okay.

But I didn't because I'm He taught me a long time ago not to be pushy about stuff. He's an adult, he makes his decisions. Some decisions we make together.

Sure.

And yeah, I could have called him, but most of the time he's sleeping, so I quit bothering, you know.

Have you ever thought— what was your plan? Did you have a plan, as in like it gets to a certain month and he's not here and I haven't heard or seen from him, like, maybe I should start reporting this?

Well, no, because I thought he was at his— with his brothers, right?

But if you haven't seen him or heard from him, when you guys haven't had these big periods of separation since 1980, you haven't thought like, okay, if it comes to next October and it's been a whole year that I haven't seen or heard from him, like, maybe I should start figuring out what to do?

Well, you guys are doing that now.

But that's not because At what point would you have called me and said, hey, my husband's—

Oh, I see. Well, that's a good question because, uh, he— a couple of reasons. Because he told me not to talk about it, which obviously now legally I have to. And, um, what's the other thing? Oh, time flies.

Like, I don't know exactly what the police officers were thinking in this moment, but I'll tell you what I thought. What the hell is going on? Usually when someone's spouse is missing and their story about it doesn't make sense, I might assume the worst. But in this case, the story was so bizarre, I didn't know what to think. What was going on in Patty's mind? Could she really believe what she's saying? Did Jay wander off and Patty just didn't report it? Would that be a crime? And where is Jay? Was there any chance he was still alive? Or is his body somewhere up on the Christmas tree farm? I was beginning to fall down a rabbit hole. And at the bottom of it were a bunch of people who'd already been down there for months.

The whole thing is, like, just a bizarre mystery. It's like all these questions that the town has, the community has, are just, like, unanswered.

And just like the original tipster warned me, The search for answers would only get stranger. You haven't been in any legal trouble, right, Pat?

Never?

Me?

You've never had to deal with the legal system, right?

I was on a jury one time.

Good for you.

Honey, let's take a walk up into the woods. Let's see what we can find. And get hit over the head with a shovel.

My initial thought was she killed him because that was what I always thought would happen.

No way, no way. They have no idea how much we loved each other.

Let me just ask him if he broke a bone or, um— okay, now my spirit guides are telling me he had a concussion.

She was after me because she didn't like the toilet paper I had ordered for the office. Well, what kind of toilet paper did you order? As a search planner, I know I will probably get more resources for a missing 2-year-old search than a missing 72-year-old search.

I kind of revert back to like that Bear Brook thing, like, what if we were to just come across something?

You know, and I wrote down, she said, you You know, I, I found him.

From New Hampshire Public Radio and Bear Brook, I'm Jason Moon, and this is A Private Matter. A Private Matter is written and reported by me, Jason Moon. It's edited by Katie Culinari. Additional editing and production by Lauren Chooljian. More editing support came from Dan Barak, Rebecca Lavoy, Taylor Quimby, Anne-Marie Timmons, and Marina Henke. Photos and video by Elena Eberwein and Raquel Zaldívar with the New England News Collaborative. Fact-checking by Danya Suleiman. Legal review by Jeremy Eggleton. Our website, bearbrookpodcast.com, was created by Sarah Plourd and Matt Tobin. Original artwork by Judith Poitras-Leunault. And original music and scoring by me, Jason Moon. If you have more information or story tips, get in touch with us at bearbrook@npr.org. A Private Matter and Bear Brook are productions of the Document Team Looking for a horror podcast that isn't murder to get through?

Then check out Another Effing Horror Podcast, our show where paranormal and true crime stories collide with unfiltered commentary. I'm Monique Sanchez. And I'm Amy Trayden. Each week, Monique and I share one paranormal story and one true crime case. From unexplained phenomena to true tales of murder and mayhem. We find the stories you haven't heard before and research them obsessively to bring them to life. Follow or watch Another Effing Horror Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

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