Transcript of Joe Biden prepares for Donald Trump presidency takeover | BBC News

Katrina has a well-deserved break, and we're very happy to have you joining us from London.

I'm balancing my phone on five blocks of Fulskat paper and a book, and trying to lean it in the right way just so that you can see me. So I hope it works.

A true broadcaster will find the angle.

I'm the loose wheel. I'm the loose wheel in this operation. I know my role.

How did you guys spend your New Year's ringing in the New Year?

Well, I had Christmas off, and then they said, Coming to work for some easy shifts with some filled back half hours. And then all hell broke loose yesterday. New Orleans, of course, some tragic circumstances there. We were rolling all the way through. My entire afternoon, I had one Lou break. I was on air for five hours straight as it all unfolded. We've been busy busy this side.

It also has been a reminder, I don't know, Christian, for you, with the coverage yesterday as well of how this is going to really be something that impacts the incoming Trump administration looking at national security and how Islamic State inspired attacks or linked to tax, perhaps, is something that they're going to have to look at.

Ken MacCillum, the head of MI5 on this side, has talked about this loanwall threat here, in fact, a couple of months ago. It's something we faced persistently for many years, of course. I I think Christopher Ray, the Director of the FBI, has had similar conversations with Congress. They're particularly worried about this ICIS-inspired threat. I say inspired because there's a very different approach here, isn't there, between ICIS-inspiredired, which is someone sitting at home watching videos, watching propaganda, who becomes more extreme through what is watching from maybe perhaps as well, coverage of of Gaza and things in the Middle East, to actually something being directed from overseas, somebody traveling into the country. I think what will concern authorities in America is that we have a situation here where US citizens, someone who's a military veteran, eight years active service, apparently had an honorable discharge. His life has collapsed. There's been a divorce. There was a DUI in North Carolina, I think. Then you get to this point. There's obviously a period of time between his divorce and what happened in New Orleans that they will be pouring over, trying to fully understand it. But from my perspective, over here in Europe, it is something that we have seen many, many times.

I've seen also the conversation here in the US. We're seeing some of the Republican senators say, Look, this is a sign that senators, Congress need to come together and confirm Donald Trump's incoming national security team. That, of course, includes people who are pretty controversial, Certainly, like Pete Hegset for defense secretary, Tulsi Gabbard, former congresswoman for director of national intelligence. How much traction do you think something like that would have?

Before we get to the nominations, I think it's important to point out we did hear from both the president and incoming president yesterday, which I think was a glaring example of how this transition period has been going. We heard from Trump first. We heard him falsely suggest that a migrant was behind the attack before we had any of the full details. He really leaned into some of the campaign rhetoric around... He's used about criminals coming into the country and overtaking the country. Biden, we heard from much later in the day, we did get a statement from him that was focused on the victims. And then he came out, of course, in the evening after spending the day with his national security team being briefed on all of the details that were available, speaking to the press about the incident. And I think that split Screen underlines how he's handled this transition, which is he's really let Donald Trump step into these moments of national crisis and be really vocal while he takes this back seat approach, which, of course, is always awkward for an outgoing president. But I think it's been... He's all but ceded the presidency to Donald Trump, while he focuses on more personal legacy achievements in these final weeks of his career.

Why do you think that is, Courtney? Because President Obama used to say one president at a time, right? And that was something important for the transition. But President Biden has been looking a bit at his legacy. But there were important issues that he wanted to actually also get off his agenda before leaving office.

Yeah. I mean, look, he did broker the ceasefire in Lebanon. Gaza has remained out of reach. You mentioned that Obama said one President at a time. It was not only Obama. Nixon said it. Bill Clinton said it when he was incoming as well as outgoing. This is something that's always been a norm of the transition period. But Donald Trump is not waiting for that handover. He's making policy pronouncements He's holding court with world leaders at Mar-a-Lago in a way that previous presidents, incoming presidents, haven't done much of that. There's always this awkwardness with foreign policy where you have the incoming president trying to set the tone, back channel a bit. But Biden has really stepped out of the spotlight and allowed this vacuum in messaging, both for the incoming administration, talking about, I think Democrats I've spoken to would prefer him to be a bit more vocal about some of these colonies that Donald Trump is putting forth, as you mentioned, for national security, which is pretty important. But also for his own party, there's a vacuum in messaging as some of this infighting is going on. Biden has turned inward at a moment where I think a lot of people, after four years of hearing him proclaim Donald Trump as a threat to democracy, are expecting him to speak up.

I wonder what you both think about the initial messaging yesterday from Donald Trump, because obviously he left Putin talking about this as someone who came across the border. It would appear to me he was repeating things he'd heard on cable news. It almost seemed to me as if he was speaking as a candidate, as someone who was campaigning rather than the intellect who now has to govern.

But that's also, in a way, always been Donald Trump style. The last four years of President Biden's administration has also been the entire time a campaign for Donald Trump as well. When he entered the White House for his first term, he never stopped campaigning. That seems to be often a part of his messaging. It's interesting to see that he doubled down on that message on Thursday morning. As I said, we're taping on Thursday morning, again, to say, open borders in immigration have led to this terrible crime. Of course, there are some conflicting numbers on immigration and crime. We could dive into that. But the point to be made in this case is, of course, that the attacker was a US citizen, an army veteran. Sothere isn't a link there. Of course, some of that misinformation spread wild on X and on social media, as you pointed out, Courtney, in the initial hours.

If there's one thing we've learned about Donald Trump, we've learned many things, but he does prefer to be a candidate. He prefers being a candidate over the actual job of the presidency itself. You have to wonder what a second term looks like when you don't have some of these Republican institutionalists who are with him in his first term who are no longer there. When you have Elon Musk, this external influence on him and posting about some of this misinformation online. I think it does speak to how he plans to take office again. I think we'll have to see what we hear from him in the coming days as we learn more about this attack as well.

Christian, how do people there in the UK look at President Biden right now? I mean, Courtney talking about the fact that he's turned inward. Is he really present on the international stage?

I think the G20 was quite an eye opener for a lot of people. The fact that the group photograph took place and he wasn't there, they said there was a clash of diaries, but the fact that he wasn't there, and also the visit, President Trump's, President-Elect Trump's, visit President President-Elect Trump's visit to Paris to the re-opening of Notre Dame. That was quite an eye opener as well, because the fact that Macron had extended the invitation to Donald Trump, and that It was Joe Biden who was going to travel in the President's place. I think almost in a way, the UK was slightly behind the curve because Prince William, you remember, was then dispatched to Paris for a meeting with Donald Trump. It almost I felt within British diplomatic circles like, Oh, here we are. We better get going. We better get on the front foot. We were planning for January 20th. Then very shortly after that, I think almost the very next day, we got news of this call between between Kierstam and Donald Trump, whether or not they saw the French had stolen in March and they needed to get in quickly. It certainly had that feel about it.

So yeah, I think it's perhaps caught some people by surprise on this side, how Joe Biden has retreated from the world's stage. And especially so, I think, when you consider what happened around Syria, that he wasn't really visible. He wasn't really the United States leading at a time when you would expect a US President or to be there and to be very much visible.

The Notre Dame thing was startling just because this is a Catholic president who very much leans on his faith. And to You have this moment on the world stage with the French President, where you have Donald Trump talking to Zelenskyy, talking to Macron. It was the same weekend. Syria was the same weekend, and I think it was a whole day before we heard from Biden about Syria. Again, it was another one of these split-screen moments. You just have Donald Trump making proclamations about Greenland and the Panama Canal and causing a crisis of confidence in Canada, might I add, with his threat of tariffs and the whole dilemma that Justin Trudeau was in. It's truly we're at a point where he's seated his waning weeks, which is winding down his career as well. We will see him. He is going to Rome next week to visit the Pope for one last time and meet meet with the Italian President. But again, these trips, as you mentioned, Christian, they've just been so muted where he is on the world stage, he barely interacts with press. He hasn't held a press conference on any of them. We still haven't had a press conference post-election that previous presidents have done.

Yeah, that's such an important point. Christian, to your point as well of how people are looking at things in the UK. I have been obviously following German news closely as they're set to hold an in February as well, and the involvement of Elon Musk in not only Donald Trump's transition, but now, of course, in German politics, where he's endorsed the far-right party, the AFD there. He wrote an op-ed in one of the major newspapers there. There are real questions being asked about who is leading the transition, who is leading President Trump, and what impact they will have on them, who to look to. Should those links be made then to Elon Musk and President Trump? And who are the conversations being had with. But it reminds me of in the first term, there was obviously a sense of having to carry favor a bit with then President Trump, and now with President-elect Trump, There are a few members of the team. We can't forget his family as well, Don Jr, who's played an important part in some of the cabinet pics. A sense, I guess, perhaps internationally, of understanding that they can these ties with President-elect Trump, but also if someone like Elon Musk is going to have a big influence on the administration and his policies, that that's going to present a new challenge.

Eight years ago, we started a program here called100 days. The premise of the program was that we would look at Trumpism in America, but also how it reflected back on the rest of the world. That feels to me very much where we are right now. Obviously, on this side, there is enormous trepidation because of what has been threatened through the campaign, notably the tariffs. Obviously, European economy is not very strong at the moment, notably so the third biggest economy in the world, Germany, and 10% tariffs at this moment would be not very good at all. I think there will be an interest in what Donald Trump said about energy for tariffs. Could the Europeans buy more energy to see off tariffs? Certainly they could. Was the capacity there in the US market? But at the moment, there isn't. There's a bit of confusion around that, I think, on this side. But in terms of the politics, today we've got Elon Musk, who sits alongside Donald Trump, tweeting about Tommy Robinson, who is jailed, of course, for running this documentary that was libelous about a Syrian refugee. Elon Musk saying he needs to be released and that the documentary is worth a watch.

That row between Elon Musk and the Labor Government continues. On the other side, he's engaging with the AFD, talking about sitting down with the leader of AFD for a debate on X. In all the European countries, again, it's that divide and rule thing that we saw back in the first term, where he's not a multilateralist. He prefers to deal with countries on a one by one basis. We've seen the relationship he developed with the Hungarian leader, with the Polish leaders, the Eastern Bloc, and the way that he dealt with Brussels. It was a very, very different approach to the multilateral organizations and the way that he dealt with governments on a bipartisan basis. I think there's going to be much more of that. Certainly, of course, they're going to cozy up more towards the Conservatives and more towards those on the right. The one thing I just add is how does this Tommy Robinson thing complicate things for Nigel Farage? Because he was very much open arms embracing this approach from Elon Musk and the money that comes with it. But if he's constantly having to fend off, well, how close is Elon Musk to Tommy Robinson?

That's going to be a political problem for reform and for Nigel Farage.

Yeah, Christian, that's a really interesting point. Even among the mega world here, we are seeing some cracks there in Elon Musk's influence. Laura Loomer is a far-right figure here who has, obviously in the past, been very controversial. She criticized Elon Musk when he and Vivek Ramaswami, remember the two of them are heading up the new Department of Government Efficiency, talked about the need for H-1B visas here in the US, bringing in the top talent engineers, and that clashes with some of the America first anti-immigration rhetoric that we're seeing from the Manga So his position is going to be fascinating to watch. But it brings me, I think, to the point that I've been looking at this week, which is the new Congress coming in, the 119th Congress. Of course, it's going to be very interesting to watch. I've been thinking about what a challenge it will be about, will be not only for the GOP, also for the Democrats. Courtney, we talked a bit about the infighting in the last pod that we're seeing there over the postmortem and what happened in the election. But there are already real questions about whether Speaker Mike Johnson can be reelected.

Donald Trump, the President-elect, over the holidays, reendorsed Mike Johnson and said he is the right man for the job. But it doesn't appear that that necessarily will have enough sway. We're going to get to the situation, again, where we might not see enough of a GOP majority to reelect Mike Johnson. We remember what that was like last time where we saw Kevin McCarthy need 15 rounds. Do we all remember where we were for that?

Yes.

Do we ever?

I don't think... I don't know what you guys think, but I don't imagine that to be the case for Speaker Johnson. He seems to have enough sway within the conference to perhaps close some of the controversies that he has with individual members or some of the lack of trust that he might have. But if you think about the very thin majority that Republicans will have, at the same time, you have Donald Trump who came into office this time with a clear mandate, won every swing state, won the popular vote. I wonder if there'll be less of a leash for Speaker Johnson this time to not be able to bring his conference or to close ranks behind him because of Donald Trump wanting to implement his agenda with his entire team and with the loyalists that he is trying to put in place, certainly in his cabinet, that they want to get started right away because they felt limited last time.

Yeah. I mean, look, you're right in that he won every swing state. He's really leaned into this idea of having a mandate. But if we've learned anything from the budget fight, the spending fight, there are limits to Donald Trump's influence. And he doesn't get everything he wants always. His party is going to have to work hand in glove, even though they have complete control of Washington, to really push through his agenda, especially on issues that is going to really require Congressional buy-in, on taxes, on immigration, on these big meaty items that Donald Trump was elected to office on. I will say the thing about the Kevin McCarthy saga is you had the Matt Gates piece, which you don't have this time around, that rivalry playing out within the speakership fight. But I think that Johnson certainly has an uphill battle, maybe not the same one that Kevin McCarthy faced, but in trying to keep the conference together. It's going to be a challenge for sure.

How many can afford to lose? It's just one, right? You've got the Kentucky congressman, Massey, who is a hard no. I think the Georgia congressman, McCormick, is a waiverer. So that's two. If others would have split, then it could get messy tomorrow. That has implications, doesn't it, for the certifying of the vote on Monday?

Yeah, it does. It certainly does. And indeed, it could hamstrung Congress. I mean, again, like it did with Kevin McCarthy's speakership, and he was then toppled, of course, a few months later, but it could hamper their ability to get anything done. That is certainly not the way that Donald Trump would want to start his term after the inauguration. But at the same time, there will be a lot of pressure on Speaker Johnson, but also these individual members, people like Chip Roy, Victoria Spartz, to fall in line so that they are able to enact some of the policies that the Trump administration, the President-elect himself has said that they really want to see push through. But you mentioned the budget fight just before the holidays, Courtney, and I was speaking to a moderate Republican congressman just before that all kicked off. And I asked him, Oh, are you confident that the budget bill will get passed. And he said to me, Well, let's see who tweets next. And lo and behold, just a few hours later, we saw that message from Elon Musk criticizing the deal. And I really wonder what the internal conversations will be like in the GOP and the pressure, as I said, that they might be under.

But we should also say the Democrats are not going to have an easy time of it. They're also talking about who their next leadership should be.

Well, I think you raise a really important point, which is there's going to be a spotlight on the moderates in both parties. There's a spotlight on the moderates in the Republican Party for obvious reasons. Where do they fall in all of this? But as you mentioned, the Democrats, too, they're trying to figure out which way to take the party. You'll see some of these groups like the Blue Dog Democrats or the Problem Solvers Caucus, trying to redefine themselves in an age of Trump and in a Congress that's under Republican control. That's definitely something I'll be watching out for in this new Congress.

Just coming back full circle to where we started with New Orleans, do you think actually what has happened, the security threat, maybe it's a persistent threat we know yet. Does that smooth the way for some of his nominees? Does it put an added focus on the vote on Friday? Do they think, Look, we need to get this done because of the security situation the country is in?

I think that the Republicans certainly will use that reasoning. They will say this is why it's imperative that we get Donald Trump's picks through the nomination process as quickly as possible so we don't have any gaps We don't have any issues with the transition in national security. Whether that actually works, we'll see. I think at a moment when we have a national crisis like this, certainly it has worked.

From our perspective, looking inwards, I just wonder, going back to the Syria issue, whether it actually does change a little bit foreign policy, because when Trump says, This is not our fight, well, it is perhaps America's fight. If you've got a resurgent ISIS group in Syria that take advantage of a vacuum, and we've seen this before, of course, in Afghanistan, then what does he do with the 900 troops which are there in Syria? How does he engage with Syria and Afghanistan if it is a threat for the homeland? I think in all the nominations and actually in terms of foreign policy, something shifted quite dramatically yesterday, or at least you would perceive that it should.

Let's see. We're going to be watching some of these confirmation hearings in the coming weeks and then barreling right towards inauguration. But I guess that's what we have time for. We can monitor all of this and catch up again in the coming weeks. Thanks for having me. See you soon.

See you soon. Thanks so much. Bye, guys. Bye..