Transcript of Chace Crawford New

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. We have a very gorgeous man today.

Ooh, he is attractive.

Makes my eyes feel good.

You think he had your stye during this? And maybe he healed your stye.

I think he did. I'm going to give him that credit. Chase Crawford. Chase Crawford is an actor. Gossip Girl, The Boys. The Boys. I love The Boys. The Covenant, Inheritance. This pains me to say out loud. But it is the final season of The Boys. New episodes Wednesdays on Prime Video. One of the greatest shows ever made.

Pretty much the coolest people I know watch The Boys.

It's such a good show. Everyone should be watching it. And, uh, if you haven't started, what a joy. You have so much to catch up on. Uh, please enjoy. Not just good looking, such a good hang, so friendly. Chase Crawford, enjoy.

It's a perfect setup to transition to the garage, huh?

Yeah, so we did record upstairs when we were audio only. Directly above us there's a little attic.

Everything's video though now too, isn't it?

It's awesome. We hated the idea, but they forced us as part of our new Wondery deal.

Well, it's probably the smartest thing. I mean, these are the talk shows, you know, it's just like the real deal.

Hi, Mike, how are you?

So Oh, you work with Caroline.

I do.

She told me to tell you hi. She's the best. Hi, girl.

She said you're having my favorite person on.

Oh my God, I got that call too. Who's Caroline? You know Caroline?

Caroline?

In the city?

She's our stylist. Stylist.

Stylist to the stars. Incredible lady.

And she's just like the coolest person.

She is.

In general.

She says you guys hang out after hours and I invited myself.

You should come. We'll go to like Escuela Tequilería on like a Friday.

Yeah, margarita.

What's Escuela Tequilería?

You never been to Escuela?

No.

It's great. Well, it used to be. Kind of the secret no one knew, the tacos in LA. They do like a fried OG hard shell taco.

That's my jam is hard shell.

Yeah, me too. And it's awesome.

Have you ever tried Baja California?

No.

Dumpy fucking shitty little— Oh, I know what that is. Plaza. Yeah. Right next to Subway at Franklin and Hillhurst.

Okay.

I have not. The best hard shell taco I've ever had.

Okay. That's a big claim.

That is a really big claim.

That's 100%. I might go after this to try them.

I'll give you testimony. Do you know Ryan Hansen, that actor?

Yeah, I do actually.

Okay, great. So Ryan and his wife were over last week to watch the Peaky Blinders movie.

Amazing.

And I went up there and I got 6 hard shell tacos for all of us. So 24 hard shell tacos.

Oh my God.

And Ryan and Amy were like, this is bonkers. What's going on?

Yeah.

And Chase, they all were eaten. And the whole time we were watching Peaky Blinders, many of us were going, fuck, I'd go for more of those tacos. Like, I don't know how many it would take to get my fill of those.

They're addicting.

I pray you try it. And then the next time I run into you, you go, my God, you're right. I'm 100% going to try it.

Yeah.

Let's, after this, let's go go grab some, uh, dude, I'm down. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so back to your thing.

Sorry, hi, Jay. That was my heart jumping.

No, we just have a really lovely friend in common.

So similarly, I got a text last night from Jamie Feld.

Oh, you know Jamie?

Yes, I know. She's not my agent or anything, but I'm friends with her and Zegers.

Amazing. Yes, Kevin's great.

And she texted me and said, you're talking to my favorite person.

Jamie is the best. I've been with her for like 20 years. She was kind of with Cuvane. And then obviously now she's the head of everything over there. Yeah, yeah, she's awesome.

But that's pretty incredible. I don't know if I've ever arrived— well, I know I've never arrived anywhere and two different people had gave testimonials about me. That's good.

Makes you feel good. I got a text from her, I'm like, yes, Jamie's texting. But Kev's great. I've known Kevin for years.

Yeah, you guys did a movie together.

Uh, he was on Gossip Girl years and years ago, like in 20— I don't even know when.

Oh yeah, he was like a bad guy.

Is he a bad guy?

He's on there for like a fall, like it's like 6 to 8 months, you know, back when shows were like 26.

I know, you guys did so many.

And he's so good looking. Was he playing a boy toy?

Yeah, yeah, he was a suave. We were almost right in that same pocket, like head to head.

So did you guys go out on the town at all?

We did actually.

That's back when he really would lose himself. Honestly, I don't know if we're recording or not.

No, we always are recording.

Yeah, we cut out anything.

Oh no, no, no, we are super best friends.

Okay, so you'll be the judge. So I know his story.

He's very honestly sober.

I mean, he's very open about being sober.

Yeah.

So I didn't know that, and I was decidedly not during those years. And we would go out, and we were friends already, always got along, but we'd go out, don't want to, you know, blow it up too much, but we'd go out on the town in New York. I mean, we had keys to the city, and I knew he didn't know anyone else in the cast, and I was always looking for a running mate. Yeah, exactly. Like a homeboy I knew from LA though, too, actor. And so we went out, and yeah, I think that was the last run that he had.

Uh-huh. Did he pee his pants at any point?

Maybe, probably on the mile. Not that I know of.

Not that I know of. But I will say we had an absolute blast.

As you should. I think as many of us feel in this fellowship of sobriety, no regrets. Super glad I had all those blowout nights. Right. I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to be on planet Earth on my one trip and not do what I did.

Well, 'cause you made it out alive, man.

I made it out alive.

But man, a lot of fun was had till it got dark. I mean, there's good fun to be had out there. New York's a dangerous city.

New York's a dangerous thing, man. Like it got dark for me too. They got to be a little too much. You know, it's like that thing where it's, it's New York.

Yeah. What do you diagnose the problem is? 'Cause for me it's a very specific thing. Like why Why is it dangerous in New York?

Now I have that romanticized relationship with the city. Like when I go back, that feeling, that buzz. I don't know if I'd be able to live there again and function because you're out. If the weather's nice, there's always people on the patio. There's always something going on. There's always like an event. It really never shuts down.

Yeah.

And no cars.

And no cars.

No cars makes a huge difference.

You're just walking around. You're fine.

You're like, let's grab a wine.

It's a Tuesday.

It's not irresponsible because you're not driving and hurting anyone.

I will say everyone wants to visit you. So it's like there's always someone in town. You're showing up. Town. Yeah, they're a reason to go out. And I'm more reclusive now. I like to just be a homebody and get groceries in the car. New York's not really conducive to that.

Yeah, you have a dog, right?

A dog, the whole thing.

Yeah, I was spared by having never worked there while I was an addict, but I would go there to promote. Yeah, my issue is like, the bar doesn't shut down until 4.

Yeah, that's enough. I mean, forget it.

An afterparty is standard every night of the week. Someone's hosting an afterparty.

If you're out from 1 AM, if you're gonna stay up till 2, it's not closing, you know, you're most likely going to keep it going.

But, uh, yeah. Gossip Girl. We just had Jenny Garth on from 90210 original.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Amazing.

And Gossip Girl was kind of the my gen's 90210. So I cannot imagine being in New York and like seeing you guys out there. I would have been freaking out.

You guys were all—

Oh my God.

If you would have given me my first dose of fame in New York City at 22, you were 22 years old.

On the hottest show.

And I'm making thousands a week. I mean, forget it. We're not sure I'd be here.

You wouldn't. Yeah. You wouldn't.

Looking back on it, it affects everyone differently those first 2 years of fame.

Most people turn into an asshole in some way, or they just get paranoid and reclusive.

You went the paranoid route. I read the Interview magazine interview with you and Magnus.

Oh, nice. Thank you. Love Magnus. Yeah, that was a good interview.

Yeah, it was a sweet, sweet interview. Okay, but you were born in Lubbock. You moved to Minnesota for 4 years.

Yeah.

And then mom was a teacher. What kind of teacher?

She kind of taught everything. She got a master's in education, but she was mainly English. But she would like substitute us in kindergarten and throughout high school actually. And she was kind of like the cool substitute teacher. Like everyone— hold on, hold on, hold on. Crawford, you know?

No, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, there's no such thing as a cool substitute teacher.

So you're already lying.

She would bring candy.

That's what she would do. She would bribe everyone with candy.

Your mom is hot though. I saw a picture of her. She is. Your mom's super hot, right? She had you like just 20?

Oh, I used to get it all the time in high school, man.

I learned she was 20 when she— or 21 when She had you?

Exactly. They had me young. Yeah, she was like—

Dad's a dermatologist, so his skin is fucking gorgeous. It's glowing.

Yeah, I got like these genetics.

So you're not doing terrible on the skin.

Yeah, my dad, he doesn't give me any tips. It's just all genetics.

Before we proceed, I don't know why I didn't detect this when watching The Boys, which I'm an enormous fan of.

Love it.

Your voice is incredible.

Oh, thank you.

If you always connected— I mean, you could definitely— it would be a downgrade, but you could be on the radio or have a podcast. Oh, it's such a soothing—

it's got a good Thank you.

I went to college to do broadcast journalism or to maybe do— because people used to say like, oh, you got a great voice, you should get into like TV. And I really fast learned that I was not good at that. Like, you didn't want to do broadcast journalism in sports, even though I love sports. But thank you.

Ironic though, because Candace— is that your sister?

She is.

She's a sports journalist.

Yeah, that's how she met her husband.

Okay, so back to how old were you when you left Lubbock and went to Minnesota?

We were in Lubbock for like a year, and then my dad's side of the family is from Oklahoma, so Oklahoma City for like 4 years where he did med school at OU. So boomer Sooner. We're all Oklahoma Sooner fans. It's college. And his family was there. We moved to Minnesota. I was about 5 to 10 years old. So he did a residency program. They were young, like 21, 22. I can't imagine having like 2 kids and not a lot of money before he became a doctor and then trying to get through med school and then going up to Minnesota. So those were some of the best times.

You must have a little bit of mixed culture between Southern and Minnesota because those are pretty formative years. What was the vibe in elementary in Minnesota?

I remember getting to Minnesota and being in school and having like a small identity crisis because I like I'm a Texas kid and that's all you know.

Did you have cowboy boots and shit?

I was a Cowboys football fan. Yeah. When I was young. Yeah. Oklahoma, little cowboy boots and the hat. Yeah. Thing.

Every little boy in Texas I see has got cowboy boots.

Right. And you just identify with that. Even Oklahoma. And I remember being in Minnesota and being like, what do I say? Who do I say I am? Am I, you know, from Minnesota? Is it Oklahoma? Am I from the South? I definitely had a little twang, you know, growing up. And then I sort of started to have the Minnesota accent.

Sure. My grandparents did not like that.

You know, saying like, "Soda pop." It kind of melded the accent when I got back to Dallas after that.

And what kind of boy were you? You seem like you would have gotten along with everyone.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a people pleaser. I have to do a lot of therapy. Yeah, that's like my thing.

Boundaries are hard for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that was kind of part of it, having to move to Oklahoma and then Minnesota and back and always make like a new group of friends was sort of how I learned to survive.

So you get to Plano for what, junior high or middle school?

Middle school, yeah. 5th grade. And how did that go, that transition?

From Minnesota to Plano.

I remember that as like a weird time. I had two best friends in Minnesota, like the bikes in the summer, the whole thing, like great, really good friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And lake life in Texas. That's really all there was. That's what we did. But that was it with those two friends and losing them. That was the first kind of real loss. And I remember being depressed when I was 10, moving back to Plano, to Dallas, and then having this daunting task of meeting new people and creating new relationships again.

And now you are a Vikings fan.

We did hit that Metrodome back in the day. It's not there anymore.

Is your sister younger or older?

She is younger by 17 months, so we're pretty close in age.

Okay. Irish twins.

And this may shock you, but she's also shockingly attractive.

So the whole family, the whole families are just—

she was Miss—

I'm going to butcher it. She was Miss Texas, I think, or Miss— I'm going to consult this.

I hate consulting it, but she's way older than me in maturity level. Miss Missouri.

Miss Missouri.

What am I talking about?

She went to school at Mizzou. She was Miss Missouri.

And a contestant in Miss America.

Yeah.

Now, did you grow up with everyone doing what we just did, which is, "Oh my God, your family is so beautiful and so perfect"?

It was more like, "Your mom's hot." Oh, okay.

"And your dad's handsome." Yeah. Although your buddies probably weren't coming down on that. "Fuck, man, your dad is handsome." Yeah. Yeah, I would've appreciated his skin and stature. Okay, back to mom being a cool substitute. Boy, these substitutes, God bless them, man. They come in and you meet, you're like, oh great, we get to fuck off today and be assholes completely. That's the first thing you think.

Yeah.

If my mom walked in the classroom, I'd be like, guys, we're not allowed to do the thing where we're assholes today.

Be nice to my mom.

Yeah. A, I would've felt embarrassed, and then B, I would've felt protective. This had to be tough.

She would just let everyone screw off. That's why, that's why it was good. She would just be like, it'd be a fun day. She knew how to get to get everyone around to doing what they were supposed to do. But it would start off with games and candy, and everyone loved Mrs. Crawford. Yeah, she was like the cool mom as well.

So you weren't embarrassed that Mom was there? Because that doesn't really matter how cool Mom is, she's just kind of embarrassing, right, when you're a little—

Well, not if you have Miss Crawford.

Yeah, Miss Crawford was great. Fast forward to high school a little bit, but she would, "Let's have the party at our house." She wasn't like the removed, like, "Do whatever you want," but she kind of wanted it over at the house, and that was fun, and people liked it, and she was the cool mom.

Were you overly protective of little sister, or did you stay her business? Were you monitoring what was going on?

No, I mean, my, my sister was more like embarrassed of me. I think me and my sister were so different. By high school, she was on honor council. She was like a straight-A student. She was president of the whatever. And I was starting to cut up a little bit. I was a very good student. I did very well in school until about middle of high school, and I just collapsed.

I had the same trajectory.

Yeah, it was a weird thing. I think it was an early rejection from a girl, like in like 8th grade, maybe freshman year, like 13, like the worst time. It's all hilarious in hindsight, but horrible. You feel thing. And then I was doing school. It was a rigorous school and I was getting really good grades.

Trinity something?

Trinity Christian Academy. Yeah, it was kind of a strict school, like small private school. I was just kind of doing everything to please my parents in a way. That just ran out. I just couldn't do that anymore. I just wanted to have fun.

Do you play any sports?

I play golf and football.

Yeah, I got to a point, I was on this math trajectory. I had been on the math team in junior high and then I started the whole pre-calc thing and I just had this moment where I was like, I'm like, well, I'm not ever going to be a physicist or an engineer. There's no application for this in my life. Why on earth am I learning this? And then unfortunately, I just started applying that to nearly every subject. I'm like, I'm not going to be a history teacher, right? I was like, I'm gonna live in my car like Jack Kerouac. Yeah, yeah, I don't really need any of this. What am I doing? Did you have a game plan what you thought you were going to do?

It was all to get into a good school. All this nervous energy just trying to get into a good college. Everyone was just really stressed about getting into good school, otherwise your life was a failure, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of like that hamster wheel that, like you never thought about what's feasible in life to go do. Like you said, calculus, you know, I'm not going to be an engineer or computer scientist.

In that mindset, it's like, if you don't get into a good school, you're going to jail. It's like, those are the two trajectories in life.

The stakes were so crazy.

Yeah, you don't have a complete frontal lobe. So literally you probably can't think about completely what you're going to be doing in 10 years. So it's like, oh, the next rung is college and it better be a good one because I'm supposed to go to a good one. And then you burn out.

It was definite burnout.

Why do you think you choose Pepperdine?

To get out of Texas, it was either SMU or Texas. There was a few other schools in there, but SMU is Southern Methodist, 20 minutes from my house. You know, I was like, I don't want to be 20 minutes from mom and dad.

Your mom might sub one of these classes in college.

Should be terrible. Yeah, I would never hear the end of it after that.

You're like, they're not supposed to be candy in college.

Like, where's the beer?

But you don't think there's any back of your subconscious that was like, we belong in California?

I was drawn to it. I forget what trip I took out here. At a deep, weird level, it just felt like— I've always been attracted to getting out of the bubble and meeting new people in different walks of life, in different stages, which is one of my favorite things about acting, is you always are meeting kind of like weird, interesting people, even if you don't get along.

Yeah, who have left their hometown.

Yeah, exactly. I always thought I would go back to Texas, or I assumed, and I just wanted to— If I could get into Pepperdine, I would get out of Texas for 4 years. That was it. It.

Okay, so you only did a few semesters there, right?

Yeah.

And for people who've never seen Pepperdine, it's almost impossible. You're on the PCH and you're in the highest valued real estate in the world, and you look to your right and there are 12 flat acres of grass. Oh, it's not flat, but it's on a hill, but just beautiful grass in this picturesque college. And you think, who could go here?

On the way to Malibu.

In Malibu, right? Oh yeah, yeah.

You put a golf course on the land. I don't know what they— they bought in the '70s for probably a steal. It's a small school relatively. It's tough to make it to class.

Yeah. So what happens when you land there and like the ocean's across the street?

You go to the beach every day. I met some really great friends in college, 3 dudes from Texas, from Austin and somewhere else randomly. But we got along. And then that was the whole realization for me. You can grow and kind of grow out of what you were to people from like 5th grade to high school.

New identity time.

Yeah, it was kind of like a validating thing. I can go make new friends in this new big school and be in that next stage of life. And I got there and I'm like, oh shit, I don't know what I want to do again. I don't I don't know what I want to do long term with my life.

It's occurring to you, you don't want to be a journalist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was taking a communications course. I don't— I love it, it's great, but I'm not gonna be.

So how do we decide we're gonna drop out and pursue acting?

I was really naive. It was the one time in my life my parents were kind of like, hey, you graduated high school a little bit early, just take a year off. And I was like, really? Is that on the table? Which was a nice thing. And so I took a year off. I was like valeting cars out there in Malibu at Joffreys. I don't know if you've ever been to Joffreys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very short valet, right?

It's like right there.

I lied. I said I could drive stick. Did not know how to drive stick.

Oh, wow. So you burnt up some clutches? Oh, totally.

There's fires coming through.

You've had one of the jobs. It's shocking to me I never had. I can't believe I was never a valet. I'm obsessed with cars and I love driving cars and I love tips.

The tip thing was real. It's like a high.

Yeah. And you get to woo a new person every 5 minutes. You get to like be charming every 5 minutes to a stranger. Yeah. Did you love it? Was it as good as I fantasize about?

I loved it, actually. It was a weird little fraternity. There were like 8 dudes. There was a hierarchy. Some guy was like 45 and total Venice, like long hair stoner with like dog in the truck. And he was kind of like the head guy. And then it was a tough job to get, I guess. I got like the low rung and I was like the runner. I was running across PCH like Frogger. You would have to floor the cars down PCH and they're ripping.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You turn, rip it back up, park on the opposite side, and then run back and forth. And you're straddling the—

it was awesome.

I loved it though. It was great, but it was insane.

Again, more geography lessons. GCH is the most dangerous road in California. It has the most deaths per square mile. It's a circus. Yeah, people are doing U-turns to go to the beach. I mean, it's a mess.

Yeah, it was bad.

How many accidents do we think happen hourly? No, no, valets.

Oh, I think they're pretty good, man.

I had an accident. Yeah, so I didn't actually— it wasn't like a full wreck, but it was always such a rush. You would leave cars and pull them out, leave them. Well, I just jumped out of one one time and left the door open and it was in neutral and I heard it before I saw it. It just slowly rolled back, cut speed, and the door Tommy Boy style hyperextended. I was like, oh shit, like slow motion.

What did you do?

What did you do? I just closed it and let the guy figure it out.

I know you just gotta pretend like nothing happened.

Do you remember what kind of car it was?

My saving grace was I hopped back in and I'm like, yes, it's a rental car.

Oh, what a blessing.

It was a blessing because all these things have their own insurance or whatever. So I went right away, told the main real guy that ran the restaurant, told him to put his joint down for a second.

I guess someone's gonna harsh your high right now.

Like, you idiot, go home, we'll deal with this later. But you're lucky it's a rental car.

Do you remember, were you stoked when rad cars pulled up? Did you care?

Yeah, I remember being very nervous when it was like a Ferrari, and John's like, get that one, you know? And it was like a paddle shifter.

I had no idea.

I was like, I don't know how to do it. I kind of learned, but it was bad.

That's not the place.

It wasn't even on the car.

It was the place to practice. But I remember like Orlando Bloom coming in and like tipping me money, and I was like, good tip. And Kate Bosworth, I'm like, oh, this is awesome. Yeah, your peers are here.

Yes, what an exciting LA job it was.

It was.

What other celebrities you see? That's great.

Oh God, who else? I remember, and I think I've told him this when I saw him, like, dude, you know, you gave me a nice tip one time, thank you. But I remember like Suge Knight coming through, which was weird because he had like punched the valet, so everyone was scared of him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Random people. It was like Tommy Lee and Malibu locals out there.

Who's the old, uh, ah, hell Julie, what was that actor from 48 Hours?

Nick Nolte.

Nick Nolte. Did you ever see Nick Nolte?

I did see Nick Nolte.

Yes, he's a staple in Malibu.

Yeah, he is.

Did you ever see Robert Downey Jr.?

Never saw Downey Jr. No, no, no. Keep them coming. I was pumped though when we'd see him. Johnny Carson?

No. Yeah, he was on Malibu. He was? Oh yeah, yeah.

Are you religious? Because Pepperdine's religious. You went to a Catholic school.

It was Baptist. But yeah, so my mom's dad was a pastor, a Nazarene pastor, I want to say, and lived in Texas. Grew up religious.

Okay. Yeah.

Didn't quite realize how strict Pepperdine was, actually.

It's very— isn't it?

I don't want to butcher. I think it's Church of Christ, which is very like no instruments and no bull worship and no fun. No fun.

That's where Jedidiah went, right? To law school.

Yeah, he did.

If you had a girl in your room or vice versa past like 11 or 11:30 PM, something really kind of weird, they give you like a demerit and there's like 3 demerits, whatever. I don't know what happens, but the mag light would come through and I'd be caught not in a copromiscuity. It was like you're literally just talking. Yeah, in college.

Like, this isn't high school.

So I do remember that I quickly realized there was like small little fraternities that were just basically friend groups to actually be able to have fun off campus.

I didn't know it was that direct.

Yeah, I didn't either until I showed up.

Okay, was it great money too? I'm sorry, we're gonna move off of valeting soon, but I'm so envious of this role. Fuck it. In fact, that's another job I could do in retirement other than 7-Eleven.

That's better than 7-Eleven.

Yeah, it was. I remember feeling so lucky to have the job because a buddy in college, a good friend, was older and he had the job, but he couldn't do it. So he kind of like, hey, I'm giving this to you. It's tough slot. Everyone wants this thing. Yeah, great. He knew I couldn't really drive stick, but he vouched for me. And it was like I was in this little cool fraternity, and it was summertime there, and you'd have like a family meal, free meal, like cash.

Can I guess what you were making a shift? Yeah, I'm gonna go with $350.

But then tip—

I wish I knew.

Oh, $350.

Yeah, I wish I could remember. I guarantee you it was somewhere around that. But on a big night, I remember going home with some good It was like a dopamine hit. It was like a slot machine mentality. I get like, what's going to happen next? And it was like a lot of fun.

And this was 2004 or '05?

Summer of '04.

So it's cash, baby, too. You're walking with hard cash. Yeah.

Oh, I know. It was great. I was living in Malibu with 4 other dudes in this house, kind of a decrepit, like, '70s house. Had never been updated, but like, we had this cool little spot. They were like surfers, and it was a lot of fun.

This could be a reality show.

Good old day. I know. Now I'm like, shit, I'm like, was Is it gonna get any better than that? No, no, no, no, no.

I'm so jealous of this whole spell of yours. Okay, so how do we get from there to 2006, The Covenant?

I got into an acting class.

Oh, a Meisner class.

Meisner class, exactly. I forget the name of it, but it was a more serious class. A friend was doing acting. I had done some acting in high school, and I was always sort of artistically inclined. I did photography, I loved it. I painted, I drew. And so my parents kind of like, why don't you just get out of your shell, take an acting class? And I randomly got this very serious Meisner. I knew nothing about it. I just loved it. I loved watching it. It was so abstract about coming to the door and the ex, and I like was like, what is this?

You didn't feel panicked, like I'm out of my depth?

I wasn't trying to be an actor. I was so naive. There was no pressure. It was just fun. And these kids were in there really trying, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna try and be this good actor within class. I was never thinking about really becoming an actor.

And did you get an agent from that class?

I did. I just kept kind of networking. A friend was like an actress to a manager, was like, hey, I know this very low boutique small, like, agency. It was probably more like a management company is today, just a few people. And I went with them.

This is where people pleasing— like, people pleasing gets a bad rap, but this is where it's great, right? Because I wasn't a people pleaser, and consequently no one wanted to help me because I didn't avail myself at all, right? I was trying to act like I knew everything and don't help me and I got it figured out. And of course no one tried to help me because it didn't seem like I was open to that. I didn't have a fucking agent for like 6 years, and I wanted one. I didn't get a job at a valet. I can see the value. You're nice, and there's a great word for it—

I mean, no, I mean, well, I was a bit of a chameleon as well to try and survive as a kid. You know, you learn it was kind of a survival thing to make new friends, all the different cities. And it wasn't like I was completely changing. I had an ability to kind of connect with people from all walks of life.

Yeah, and I think it's a great thing. And then so people are like, yeah, I'll vouch for you. And that's what's tricky about when people are like, I'm gonna stop being this way. And it's like, well, also acknowledge none of it's good or bad. This characteristics also got me to here. And so what part do I keep and what part do I get rid of? It's hard to know completely. Yeah.

And you don't really know that as a kid, even in your 20s, if you haven't really examined it.

So when you end up in The Covenant, you're now like, I want to be an actor, clearly.

Yeah. So I went with this agent, she was great, she did Guys. And it was back when pilot season was a real thing, like happening every fall. And she was like, I'm gonna send you out for some auditions just randomly. And I was getting good feedback. I was very green, but they're like, oh, he's talented, you know, work on this, and I was doing auditions and I was having fun with it. I was like part-time in school, I was valeting cars, living in this house. And then The Covenant came along eventually in 2005. You know, it was a real budget Sony, uh, Screen Gems movie, you know, at the time.

That's wild.

So Taylor Kitsch was in it?

Yeah, Taylor Kitsch, Sebastian Stan.

Wow.

A guy named Toby Hemingway, a British guy we're still friends with, and Stephen Strait was like one of the guys too.

Did you and Taylor get it on.

We did. Me, Taylor, and Sebastian and Toby, they're my first real friends. Yeah, like Taylor would like sleep on my couch back in when you come to LA, and he was kind of new.

Okay, so I only know the lore of him because I'm an enormous Friday Night Lights fan.

Me too.

I've never met him, and we'll get to that, but the lore is he was a trainer.

Yeah, right.

So at that time, was he a trainer? Was he already fucking jacked and looking gorgeous, or were you not intrigued?

He was looking gorgeous. Yeah, that's fine, because I specifically remember going and meeting them for the first time in Montreal at the hotel, and we were gonna eat dinner. We all got spaghetti or lasagna and all this stuff, and he kind of was like looking at us.

And he got some chicken and vegetables.

And cut to, he's like absolutely shredded. And like, he was a nutritionist. He went to school for 2 years.

He's like, you guys are killing yourself.

He basically— well, he basically like, in hindsight, it was funny, he introduced us to all this stuff of working out and eating right. It kind of gave us a trainer. So that was like the start of falling in love with working out with the guys. Like, it was fun and looking back, we were like just shoveling bread and pasta and we had a reason to get in shape. It was a fun boot camp type thing.

And yeah, and everyone's gonna be shirtless. You gotta show off.

It was hilarious. Warlocks.

So do you love men's bodies too? Like dad, he's obsessed with men's bodies.

Yeah. You have a good routine, right? You go to the gym and you do the full thing.

Yeah. But also I'm just obsessed with other men's bodies. Yeah. Are you?

Yeah.

More than my own body. I'm much more obsessed with other men. If I were a good painter, yeah, I could paint right now perfectly Taylor Kitsch's body.

Like I know it.

Like I know Brad Pitt's in Fight Club.

He showed up, we were like, oh my God, he did nutrition, he was doing modeling, but he was like really working and he didn't have a place in LA, but he was full on shredded and eating right and the whole nine. Yeah.

It's funny 'cause I've kind of forgot that was him because the last thing I saw him in I think was the Waco thing.

Yeah.

Where he's like, yeah, he's not hot in that. Well, he's not ripped in that at all. I don't think.

Skinny for that thing.

So skinny. So that's kind of my new version of him.

Well, you need to rewatch FNL. We just rewatched it 'cause of our daughters were finally old enough and I was like, oh right, it is the best show ever.

It's incredible. And the story there was we shot the thing, we come back. He stays at my couch for like a month, and he's like, I'm like gonna screen test for this show. And I had been auditioning for it. I got a test deal to read for the quarterback, for Jason Street. Yeah, so excited because I knew he was basically going to be Riggins. He had to, I think, jump through one more hoop. And I was like, oh, the idea of— we just become friends. Like, he was like my only friend in the business. Like, yeah, yeah, let's move to Austin and do Texas football. I didn't get it. I remember being bummed for like a month.

Yeah, that's a heartbreaker.

That was a heartbreaker. I remember that was my first real, like, that's a role I wanted.

And you'd only had good luck thus far. No, you probably be flat a little bit. Yeah. Like, oh yeah, when I go in, I get these things, and then I make friends, and then we all work together.

Austin, it's just—

we have adventures.

Realized that was like the most rare situation to become friends with those guys, and we're still all friends.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on— so frustrating. 15 minutes later, you've logged into 7 apps, reset 2 passwords, and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook Illinois. Now, were you able to watch the show and enjoy it, or did it fuck you up? Did you have to boycott it because you didn't get it? I've boycotted things I didn't get.

I remember him being back in LA, maybe this summer. He had it on DVD. We don't even have those anymore. He had— he's like, do you want to watch it? I was like, yeah, I do, I do. And watching the pilot, it wasn't jealousy, it was FOMO. It was like, I wish— it wasn't like I wish death upon everyone.

It was like, oh, I wish I was a part of that.

That's amazing.

The wheelchair element though, you might have dodged a bullet.

We didn't know, they didn't tell anyone that that was going to be the role.

So did you have any interesting interaction with Pete Berg? Because I had one meeting with Pete Berg. For people who know me, he was an actor forever and then became a great director, and he directed the movie and then the pilot of that show. And I had a general with him one time, and he was like 5 minutes late, and they let me sit in his office before he got in there. And then he walked in and he had tissue crammed in his nose that was just caked with blood. And he goes, oh, sorry man, I'm late, I was sparring with so-and-so. I'm like, this dude's He's such a raw dog, man. He's walking like— he's broke his nose and now he's in this meeting. He was just fighting a man seconds before this meeting.

He's a wild dude. Yeah, yeah. I've like been to dinner with him with mutual friends since. Like, he's a great guy. I remember him being in the room and directing the screen test and throwing me curveballs a bit. I was like freaking out. I don't know how to be off the script.

Yeah.

But that was, in hindsight, that was cool. Like, I would appreciate that more now. Like the improv nature of that. He was, okay, you're in an interview. Throw me questions. You know, how would you answer this as the quarterback?

Which really threw me, which is probably why I didn't get it.

But yeah, but now I would welcome that.

Okay. And then Gossip Girl comes pretty quickly after that, right? So the heartbreak doesn't last terribly long. What do you think the duration is between screen testing for Friday Night Lights?

Exactly a year. It was the next pilot season.

Did you do anything in between that?

Covenant came out. I did. It wasn't Lifetime. It was a movie. It was a movie that we shot in Turks and Caicos, which was a lot of fun, but it was very small budget. But my mom loves the movie. I'm blanking on the name of it. Thank God. Don't go watch it. But I remember feeling like that was cool.

You're not blanking. You know exactly the name of it.

No, you should say the wrong name of the movie so we go watch like the other movie.

No, it's not a big show.

They changed the name of it.

It's called like The Sixth Sense or something else.

Yeah, exactly.

Something ridiculous.

I came back and I got with ICM, the new agency. The Covenant came out.

You got a little heat.

Was like, ooh, I'm doing the thing. And then I remember going into their office to see the pilots and it was these hard scripts and it said Gossip Girl. I'm like, that's like the stupidest name ever for a show. You know? I was like, they're going to change that name. They're going to change it.

Sounds a little emasculating. Like, I'm going to be on a show called Gossip Girl? It sounds so weird.

I didn't realize it was a book franchise and they had had people that were fans of it.

I'm offended you hadn't been reading the Gossip Girl YA. Of course I did.

Then that was back when you would have to read for the first couple people, then producers, director, execs, and then you're in like the conference room with like the stadium seating.

And for people who don't know, you also add, at some point in auditioning, they make you negotiate your contract, right? They don't let you go in and read for network without a contract because they don't want to fall in love with you, and then you have the leverage. It's average thing. By today's standards, we both know it's probably not a lot of money, but at 21 years old, when you negotiated that contract for that last audition and you're like, "I'm gonna make hundreds of thousands of dollars if we do—" I mean, what was your brain doing at that moment?

Oh, it was such a high. I remember thinking I'd won the lottery. Yeah, you did. You're not doing all the math of the percentage that everyone takes.

No, you're getting 100% of that money.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking of that number per episode times how many.

Yeah. I'm going to drive a Ferrari. One's certainly in my future.

Yeah, you're going back. Yeah, I'm going back to that job. Lo and behold, it's like the lowest possible thing for 6 years. But, you know, you sign your life away for 6 years too. You're not really thinking about that. Hell no. You don't even know if it's gonna be successful. So that's like a pipe dream.

So one cute thing I learned today is that you and Ed Westwick— Yeah. You guys immediately start roommating together in Chelsea. Out of the gates. How did you meet him so quick and go like, "Let's move in together"? We shot the pilot.

In April or something in '07, 3 weeks in New York. I'm like, I love New York now. It's incredible. He was young. He was like 18. I remember looking at prices that summer. I guess we got to move there. I'm like, how much is it a month? It's insane.

And you just found out you're keeping 40% of what you make. Yeah.

Now I'm a little more realistic. Yeah. Not one check has come yet. I'm like, maybe I get a roommate. I just texted like, dude, you want to like live together? He's like, yeah, sure. Like whatever, man. Like just go find it. You know?

Tell me what address to show up to. Yeah.

I remember me and my mom, there. We saw like 3 places and I was like, I guess this one will work.

Did he live in England at that time? He had never left his hometown.

I don't know if he was outside London, I forget the name of it, but he was like in London area and he was a mini Pete Doherty, you know. He was like trying to be in a band.

Yeah, you from Plano, him from England, you guys are in Chelsea.

It was wild. Yeah, it was like Animal House.

How nice or not nice was the apartment?

It started out nice and then it was like— what was funny it was a— I forget what they call it— two-bedroom convertible. So there's an office. We had a wall just of sheetrock built, basically like a closet. And I was like, hey, I'll pay a little bit more a month for the first 6 months, take the master. You live in the closet. You live in the closet.

I found the place. You proposed to flip.

I actually did propose it. They don't flip, you pay more. And that, of course, never happens. Yeah, it never happens.

Every 6 weeks, everyone's like, team of movers are in there. Yeah, yeah.

Never. It never happened, and it was decidedly disgusting, but it was so much fun.

You have a charmed life on the fun spectrum.

Yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot though.

What did that do to the dynamic of all the people on the show? Because I mean, for one, it's, you know, teen show, hot show, all eyes, so dramatic. So in real life, you're really good friends with him. I can only assume you guys are living together. Totally, yeah. But then there's other boys on the show.

Did they feel like you were clicky?

Yeah. They didn't actually.

I had a good relationship with all the main like Penn and Blake and Layton and him were kind of the core cast, and we all got along. We all had a great time. I mean, but me and Ed, we would go out. We would go out, shoot pool, hit, you know what I mean? We would go out. We would go out. And they— I remember they had like on one of the buildings a rooftop which was kind of redone. They had couches up there and a grill, and we would just bring a Bose speaker and a bunch of beer, and like we would have parties up there.

Were you banging darts ever? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a big smoker.

Of course, all my New York friends smoked. They're like actors there, and they could smoke somewhere indoors, and I never enjoyed them. You're a good boy. You want to be cool, but I would hit the butt, you know, get the cigarette thing. It was acting like I'm cool, like I really loved it, you know what I mean?

Like, we're on a rooftop banging a dart, drinking beer. Yeah.

How was your ego though at the time? It must have been through the roof, right?

It's funny, it does affect you, you know, how fame always affects you.

Yeah. Can we talk about the moment? Because you were seeing the Black Keys in Central Park. Yeah, you got it. You and Ed, right? And that was the first time where all of a sudden people are starting to come up to you.

Yeah, there's a very first time, I'll never forget it. It's a validating feeling to kind of know that what you've been working on is being enjoyed and seen.

It's the signal of success.

Like, it's impossible to not like that. You can get annoyed at certain situations, but to this day, even people that are fans of The Boys, like, deep— I love it. It's a fun thing.

It's lovely. There's uncomfortable parts, but boy, it's lovely.

Especially when you're young. I mean, that was like the show. It still holds up. I can't watch it.

My memory of how funny the thing was versus when I watch it, I'm like, oh no, I inflated it in my mind.

I remember the Timberlake one was hilarious. Oh my God, it was a kind of cultural phenomenon.

Yeah, it was. Yeah. You guys created a word. That word now is in the zeitgeist.

Yeah. After 8 years of auditioning, not getting anything, it was a rocket ship. And so you— and you already hinted at it, but it can make you an asshole or it can make you a bit paranoid. And it sounds like you went down the paranoid route. How is it affecting you? And I would imagine it's more tolerable when you're drunk, right? It becomes a great companion piece to this new experience.

It does. And we're not working all the time, and we had the keys to the city in a sense. I remember the first iPhone coming out and being like paranoid about iPhone pictures where she couldn't even see anything. I see anything, I was super like one pixel, you know. I remember it was the young teenage thing where sometimes it'd be a lot of energy, and that would sometimes kind of like startle me a little bit, you know. Yeah, you had rabid fans.

Oh yeah, yeah, I became a little bit rabid.

I mean, it was crazy. I remember feeling like a bit of a fraud, like an imposter.

That's why alcohol helps, because when you're drunk, your ego gets to inflate and you're like, yeah, I am the shit. But when you're sober, you're like, I don't deserve this.

Exactly.

But when you're hammered, you're like, you're damn right, I'm fucking awesome. It's such a high. Yeah. You almost need the booze to actually enjoy the celebrity. That's so profound. It's so true. It's so true. I'm just now realizing that.

You're so much more comfortable in your own skin, though. And we would go out. We had other friends in the city. Were you making also other actor friends that you were like flattered by?

Like, are other actors around town starting to hang with you?

A little bit, yeah. Knicks players, and like, it was kind of like you're kind of making friends with someone. Like, yeah, the pitcher of the Mets. Pretty cool. And Sebastian, I think he came on like episode 4 or 5, Stan, and like, we were already friends. So it was like, "Yes! Got another friend here." And we were all just rolling around. We had a great time. It was a lot of fun. But it is sort of like a weird drug that you chase. You need to kind of be validated, and you realize, like, "What is wrong with me?" It's a very heightened experience that's hard to compute.

And then it's also quite addictive. And in the absence of it, you feel a big drop, right? Yeah. If you're out in New York City and fucking 40% of the girls at the bar like you—

40? 99. Yeah, probably 99. I will tell you, 99.

Yeah, man, that's a special experience. Yeah, it was good for a while.

It is a bit empty though. You're trying to keep chasing that feeling or that high.

Well, you feel it when you're not experiencing again.

It's so hard, right? It kind of like drives you that question, like, why? Like, why am I doing this? What am I doing? What am I going to do next? I need to kind of maintain this thing that's been created, and what's my reason doing the next project or picking the next thing. And if it's fame and you're trying to maintain that, it's a lose-lose.

Yes. Did it ever get weird on set while you guys were becoming these big stars? Were you guys kind of like, "Do you guys know I'm a big star?" On set, when they would ask you to do things, or you'd have to be there for so many hours, were you guys like, "Do you know who I am?" All of you. You were all becoming such big stars.

You know, we were pretty lucky. I feel like everyone was, in their own respects, very well adjusted. Like, everyone was cool. And you're working with everyone at some point. The characters are in a thousand different places. Episodes are gonna sleep together. Like, you have like 6 months with someone, then me and Penn are doing— yeah, me and Heather working. So you kind of— I had my own time with everyone to kind of forge a relationship. They were good relationships.

I know there's this kind of stereotype of anytime you have a bunch of young people on a show, they're going to be very competitive. But I actually think the blessing of it is when you're the singular star of the show, you can really start thinking your shit doesn't stink. But if you're sharing it, you're not this big special thing. You're all getting fucking heat when you walk out. You're all experiencing it. So it's like You can't feel so unique in it. That helps. Yeah.

And it kind of all happened at the same time. And then inevitably there is a little bit of, what is this person getting? When you're young— I'm older— you're just more relaxed with all that stuff. It doesn't really matter. Then you kind of become pretentious, or, you know, you kind of become self-important. You know, you want to be important. You want to, like, be the guy. There is a little bit of that anxiety of, like, what is he doing that I'm not, right?

I think when it gets dicey is the summer break.

Exactly.

It's like, who got what? Oh, they're working with that person? Fuck, I better be doing that too.

Yeah, it's hard not to feel that way. You're sitting on your ass and you're like, yo, they're doing like a studio movie.

Eddie Murphy, first year Saturday Night Live, he's on Saturday Night Live, they go away for the summer break, and then he stars in 48 Hours. And when they return, he's in the biggest movie of the summer, and they're all castmates that all started. It's like, that's a lot to deal with for everyone. Totally. How did you— or maybe you did, I didn't follow the drama of it— but did you avoid getting romantically involved with any of these people? Yeah, because I would have— that's where I would have absolutely floundered. I would have tried to date all of them. Some of them dated each other.

Yeah, okay. There's things that happen, connections that happen. I mean, you know, yeah, I never dated anyone on the show officially. They're not— I mean, there's a lot of like guest stars and people like in the orbit of the show that you'd meet through other friends even. And I remember that was a way to meet people. You should.

Everyone dates people from work. Why, why would you not do that in show business? Yeah, especially when you're kissing them.

I mean, you're literally already—

you've already— yeah, but then you cross the threshold on that. On that, it's like there's 60 people watching, boom mic, it's like, oh, you know, they want you to be shirtless again. It's like the whole other thing, you know. When you're young, it is a different thing. It is like a college experience. It's all different, and everyone's kind of single and dating or whatever, and everyone's sort of up for, you know, up for whatever. No one's married. The stakes are very low, you know. It is a funnier, more college-like school experience for sure.

You wish you had his life.

I would have blown it up. Like, I'm impressed you navigated it. I would have fucked up. I would have been partying too close to fucking— okay, okay. Fuck, I missed the part that you're an Abercrombie and Fitch model.

Oh yeah. Oh my God, were you in the documentary?

Oh no, I wasn't. Thank God. I did watch that documentary though. Yeah. What if I said—

you know what would have been great is I said, did you get romantically involved with any of the cast members? And you go, just Kristen Bell.

Kristen had the best job.

She was in this room with a mic doing a weekly, and that was amazing.

I mean, we have dating just as she was getting that offer.

And she's like, this is pretty great, I'm getting like an episodic fee, and I think that's going to be about 15 minutes a week. Yeah, they redid it, right? Yeah, for that one too.

Yeah, and it showed her voiceover skills, which took her someplace, right? Right, right.

No, completely.

My last question on that period is, how blessed and/or resentful do you feel that you guys got to do that just before social media? Social media was a thing? That's a good question.

I feel really blessed, actually. In some weird way, Gossip Girl was ahead of its time because it was about this blogger and it kind of was looking at that social media thing in a different way. But I'm just so thankful that wasn't around when we were there. I mean, how many athletes and actors, you know, you tweet something when you're 18, 20, you do something, it's videos forever. I probably would have lost everything if the video thing was real. But the other flip side of that is I wish I'd started an Instagram account when Ashton Kutcher did it at the very beginning. Like, I would have a million, you know.

So that's what I was gonna say. The con of it not being there is there are so many people that have been on these shows that they're very zeitgeisty and all young people like them, but they're not huge ratings hit. People aren't renegotiating, making a ton of money, but they're making a killing on their social media, which is a nice little thing that you probably could have also made a ton of money outside of the show had that been around at that time.

I kind of missed a generation. Like, I'm not all about putting myself out there all the time.

But you've had You had some success in it. You and Miles Teller dancing and stuff.

Those have gone viral. That was against my will. There's many videos. There's not just one.

There's a golf one you're probably referencing, but you guys are shirtless in masks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did a lot of dancing.

Everybody's bodies look great, by the way. Deep dive. Yeah. That was the pandemic. That was when we all went a little crazy.

Okay, so when the show ended, I had this very mixed feeling about Parenthood ending, which is I also had done 6 years on that show like you did 6 years, right? And I had these two feelings, which was like, one was I could have done that show for the rest of my life. I loved everyone so much. It was such a lovely work environment. I had such freedom. And also, if I do anything for 6 years, I'm kind of like, okay, I want a new experience. So, right, what were you feeling like when it ended?

With the Gossip Girl thing ending, I got super depressed, and it was way out of left field because I felt like I had to move back to Los Angeles.

You probably did need to to for your health.

Yeah, no, no, completely, completely. But I, I kind of remember thinking, why didn't I just invest and buy a place and stay in New York? I'm glad I didn't. But I remember getting plopped back in LA, and it's like anything else, those people become your identity in a way. They're family. I realized that became really important to me. It's the hair and makeup girls you talk to every day. It's the transport guy that picks you up. It's just that rhythm and that you are somebody and you mean something in that sphere.

And the schedules tethering you completely. It's what's allowing you to go be a fucking maniac and enjoy it for 4 days a week, you know, because you click back into the routine and it's stabilizing.

Yes. I got spit back out here and I remember being like depressed for 6 months. Listen, not like clinically, I was getting out of bed, but I was not in a good way.

And I would imagine too, at least in my experience, you have all these waves of thought. You first get off the show and you're like, okay, I probably have a lot of options, so I gotta choose correctly. And then a couple months goes by and all of a sudden like, do I have this many options? You start recalculating what you're going to do, and it can be madness trying to figure out what you're supposed to follow up something like a Parenthood or a Gossip Girl with.

People think, you know, you're the star of this show, and the reality of it in the industry, it's a double-edged sword. You know, you're like the pretty boy who's like on a CW show. That honestly was, uh, you don't want to see you're in the doghouse, but there is a little bit of that. Yeah, that was the reality I was facing coming back. If you think you have all these options and these offers, you have an option to do the same thing, probably the same thing. People don't really imagination and casting, you kind of got to prove yourself, which is all well and good. But I remember it being limited and not realizing, oh shit, I'm not getting the looks I'm wanting. And even if I'm getting close to stuff and putting in good work, it's like, oh, it's not a good fit. So it was a bit of wanting to really, really switch it up.

I don't know about you, but you also start losing confidence. I got to readjust what I think I'm going to be able to get into.

It was a real lesson for the first time of like, okay, I was stripped kind of of all the confidence. And again, how do you go into that room and act confident to get that job if you're feeling completely Desperate for it. Air of desperation. And it's those moments of being in this business and industry that people don't see, but you got to navigate. And that was my first time really navigating. And you're also pretty darn young still.

Like, how old were you when the show ended? 27, 28. That's the age I was when I got on Punk'd.

Let me ask you this.

Did you have a chip on your shoulder about the show? Because I don't anymore. I have nothing but gratitude. But I had a few years where I couldn't stand when people would bring up Punk'd to me. Really? Yes. Because it was like it was a reality show. And they would ask me, like, what's it like to act when I was promoting Without a Paddle? And I was like, been acting.

That's the most acting. That's like, I convinced a real person, you know? Yeah, yeah.

And I was just so defensive about it being a reality show. And then, uh, were you friends with Ashton? I'm like, no, he didn't give me— I just had all these chips on my shoulder about it.

I did too, for sure. I would feel defensive, I guess is the only word. I just feel like defensive, like, don't ask me about that, you know what I mean? I'm moving on other things. But I was always grateful of the show. It was never the people.

Well, that's what I'm sad about, is that I had that, uh, association with it. Even the first time I interviewed Ashton, I was kind of admitting to that, and he's like, yeah, I very much much felt that, and it kind of hurt his feelings. Okay, that I wanted to be so distanced from this great thing he and I did together. And now, of course, I can go like, oh my God, no one gets to be on a cultural phenomenon. I can't believe I never had apex gratitude for it. Like, of course I always had the gratitude that it gave me all the opportunities I ended up getting, but also just, dude, if you're on something like that one time in your life, that's going to the Super Bowl. Just doesn't happen.

It's hard to get to that rarefied air, really is.

But again, you're so scared because you've you've had that, yeah, it's like, oh my God, how on earth do I get on another thing of that kind of cultural momentum?

Yeah, right, which is tough. And now that it's had this weird life through streaming, it's had like these 9 lives, and the same age, you know, fan comes up. I love it. But there was a time it just felt like this black cloud, you know, I couldn't get away from, and it was hard to break out of that.

By the way, I used to have it with Kristen too. It's like every interview I'd get in, they would ask me about Kristen, right? Right. I'm like, oh, I'm only here because they want to hear about Kristen. And then I was smart enough to realize, like, oh, when I see Kristen, all they do is ask about me. Yeah. They just don't know what the fucking ask about, right? There's nothing personal going on. There's no evaluation of anything going on. Exactly. But now, yeah, I could sit and do a 2-hour podcast on Punk'd. I'd be delighted for someone to go through every episode, you know? Like, I would love to talk about it.

You should do a rewatch.

Oh, I couldn't. I couldn't get through it, but I couldn't watch it. But that is the most acting though. That really is though. That's the thing. Like, that's the real shit.

The commitment. You can't say cut.

Yeah, there's no cut. You either fuck up the entire 3-day thing they've been setting up.

The stakes are high, and it's always like the celebrity, they can sniff that out quickly, you know. I mean, it's high stakes.

If I tip it and go too big— and yet I want to go big, that's my chance to be funny. Yeah, I'm wearing a fucking wig and shit with Nick Lachey. Yeah, I'm going as hard as I can without it. Like, I'm in a cutoff shirt and shit, you know.

What a great episode. It's due for a rewatch. I want to see them all night. It's brilliant. It's my favorite. It's so good.

I've watched it recently, even after knowing him, and I'm like, it's so good.

Like, Jerry Jr.'s great and all, but it's not Punk'd. You know, that was like the thing, man. It was the best. It was really good. So walk me through this chapter, right?

This is a chapter between, I would say, Gossip Girl and The Boys.

Right.

How do you keep your spirits high? Do you find joy? Do you figure out how to recalibrate? Like, what is that journey?

Yeah, that was probably the toughest journey, like the lowest point. Let me think. I basically sort of snapped out of it a little bit, a little bit, and it just felt so daunting. The task of auditioning and trying to get that next thing. Yes. And will I ever get something as culturally relevant? Will I get big again? I did a pilot. It got picked up. Oilin'. Yeah, they changed the name of it. The best version of it would have been like Yellowstone, basically. And that's what I thought in my head. Oh, they're going to want this thing. The guys who created and wrote it were amazing. They all got fired. But ABC wanted it. They put on all these new people. We moved to Park City, which was amazing to live up there. Early on, it was like, oh, shit. It was the first time I was like scared. Am I going to be stuck on this? It was a great experience, but I was a little nervous about it.

It was fine to be stranded in New York City as a young person. Yeah. But you probably never envisioned moving to Park City, Utah when you left Dallas. That's a big part of the job that I think is fine to be like, well, I don't know, or live in Canada for 7, 8 years.

Right, right, right. It's a big— it's a nomadic thing. Leave your life. Yeah. I bought a truck, drove out there. It was great for a while, but it's a sleepy town. It's not New York. Thank God I got a girlfriend. That was kind of a nice thing. I dated a girl that we were working together.

Your longest relationship, 3 years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

That's interesting because if you're me and you fall in love and you're both out of town, A, of course you're going to fall in love. You're both lonely and out of town. Yeah. You're also playing house. Totally.

That's a good way to put it.

And then you got to return to real life back and forth. I don't know. I think that would be weird. Yeah. I've never done that full experience, but I could see it being tricky.

Somehow we did. We navigated it. It ended. It was actually in totality. It was like, oh, that was actually great. I did 13 episodes of this thing. We kind of had summer through winter in Park City. It was great.

And then you guys stayed together for a while.

And we stayed together. Yeah, yeah, we did. And we worked that out. And that's when I realized I am better in a relationship. I'm just, you know what I mean? Like, single me is not the best version in a way.

Well, there's a lot of data to support that. Married guys live like 11 years longer. I mean, it's like, yeah, we're not great on our own.

He was like, don't go to the doctor.

Right, right. No, yeah, yeah. I realized I like need some help. So that was all great. And we're still friends. What do you do wrong?

Do wrong in relationships?

What do I do wrong? I just try too hard. I'm just— I love too much.

I love too hard.

I'll go first. Yeah, well, you know, what do you think?

Yeah, I had this relationship with Brie for 9 years. I left that one, and there's no way it could have been her fault. I mean, she was a great human being. I had to be responsible for a lot of it, right? And I think I had the wherewithal. I was like 36 at the time or something, and I was like, we got to figure out what we were doing wrong. Clearly I need to break some habits. I'm probably a bit— I want them to think like me too much. I was terrible about money. I was so bad at sharing money. I was like, oh, this is my money, you know. I did a lot of things that I knew I gotta break this the next time I'm in one, which was Kristen. I met Kristen. She was a Christian vegetarian who lived with 8 people and had 16 dogs. These are all things I would have normally been like, I love her, but there's no way I can hang with all this other stuff, right?

I'm laughing because she does.

I didn't ever challenge any of those. Yeah, they're not religious.

Well, that's the funny thing about life. You didn't control it.

But you want to though. We get past the honeymoon phase and you start to try and change the other or control the other person in just small ways even. I'm guilty of that.

Yeah, and it has the veil of being gross and controlling, which certainly it is, but really it's about safety because you're like, right, I don't know, man, if she feels this way and I feel this way, I'm scared that we can both hold these conflicting opinions and still be a unit. Underneath of it, some weird fear, don't we need to be more aligned in order for it to work? Like, I don't entirely disgusting in premise of why you're acting that way. It's just like, well, how are we gonna— I remember we had a fight one time about like if we had kids, were we gonna raise them with religion? And after that fight, I think I had a wise person in AA tell me, I'm sorry, is she pregnant? And I'm like, no. He's like, so why are you fighting today about something that you don't even know is gonna happen? He thinks could change. You're living so far in the future. You guys are having a fight about something in the future. Future that is so out of touch, right? And then I never brought it up again, right?

We get worried about those things before they happen. One of my biggest things is I'm like a bottler. Passive aggressiveness is a big problem for me. Like, I'll hold on to things and I won't communicate them properly.

You got a little vault? Yeah, yeah, you can pull out when necessary.

I don't run to the hard conversation. It'll turn into a fight and it's about something else. I'll realize, oh shit, it's actually about all this other stuff.

I'm so sorry. And you were holding on to 6 months of shit. Yeah. And so that all comes out in the fight. It's about like a cup left on the table, you know what I mean?

So stupid. And then you're like, oh my God, this is— I'm so sorry. This is not, you know, but that's one thing for me.

So that's part of the people pleaser thing, right? Like, will you lose her affection by having these issues, right, in this relationship?

It's out of fear of things are safe. Don't rock the boat. Don't do anything that could jeopardize. Things are just kind of now piling up.

Homeostasis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they're all little things until they're not, right?

Because was there not a lot of fighting in your house growing up, or was there fighting? Because I think it'd go either way.

Some of both, really. I mean, my parents were really young. I can't believe they even got through that time with med school. I can barely I have a dog now. I'm 40, you know, I'm, you know, 20 with 2 kids. But they were amazing. Yeah. And they figured it out.

Yeah. Med school workload and 2 little kids. Yeah. And your mom's living somewhere she didn't want to live, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Minnesota. Yeah. She did not like putting those chains on that van. She's in Park City. Yeah.

So it's not like you grew up around it, so you are emulating it or trying to avoid it, right?

I guess it's in relationships. You need to run to the hard conversations. No one wants to do it. You got to have the hard conversation sooner rather than later. And that's just what you need to do.

And is your move to shut down? Yeah. Get quiet and distant and wait for her to figure out why you're hurting.

Exactly. You just resort to being like the child you were with your parents. Basically, that's really what it is. Yeah. Oh my God, I'm doing what I did to my mom. And it's all that stuff and you always got to be aware of it.

Okay, so good. So the relationship, I'm presuming that was an identity. Outside of acting, right? That was forward momentum as a human, building a life. I imagine those 3 years bought you a little reprieve from just you sitting there contemplating your career by yourself.

Completely. She was an actress. It was very much a great support system. It was also, in a weird way— this isn't the only reason I was getting in a relationship— but it was to prove to myself I was capable of being in a successful relationship. So I was motivated to be be a good partner and boyfriend, you know, and I definitely failed at that in many ways, but I need to like grow up a little bit. It did facilitate that. I learned a lot. You always do, right?

Was it hard for you to let go of the fun nights out and lots of options?

Yes and no. I definitely still stayed at the party a little too late. Like, I was still like having fun with the guys and like going out and stuff. Probably could have shut that down a lot sooner. I still like to have fun, but now I'm like, I love home, I love cooking, I love being in a relationship with Miles.

Yeah. With a loaf of white bread.

Yeah, that was embarrassing. But, uh, that stuff just gets tiring after a while. You just get old.

It gets less fun.

It gets less fun, and it affects you a lot more. Your body will tell you. Yeah.

You know, and the illusion— again, I'm a novelty seeker, so it's like, right, it has the appearance of a novel night, but if you really take inventory, you're like, oh, I do the same thing over and over and over again. Even if I hook up with a new person, it's the same thing. There's really no surprises.

Exactly. And you feel like it's, it's going to be this thing, and it's never what it is. For me, it was a bit the revelry of it, being with friends and the drinking. It was always kind of like this high of revelry. Yes, the socializing aspect was tough for me.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I just had a thought. Yeah, I love the intimacy you could have with other men while drunk, right? I just craved that. And I loved— I show up with a six-pack, and then now I can say I love you.

Your inhibitions are so down, right? Right.

I craved that intimacy with men, and drinking gave that to me.

You don't even realize, you know, that's what you're looking for or what you need in your life. And you'll find a lot of them, you know, friends that you're just friends within that bubble of partying or whatever it is, right? And then that disappears, and it's okay, you know, it's tougher.

Jack London, the writer, he wrote a book called John Barleycorn. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

I have not, no.

But it's this very, a very honest book about his relationship with drinking towards the end of his life. And he was a hardcore alcoholic by the end, where he had to wake up in the middle of the night and drink in the middle of the night to stay asleep. And it was, I think, reading that book that occurred to me, oh, that's what I was kind of craving, that I loved, is he just talks about the intimacy at a bar with males and how without that he could have never had that. He couldn't get there without that. Like, a real conversation with them, just the intimacy, the depth of a relationship, saying your fears to another man, and all these things you just dare not do sober with another dude.

It's so hard to get there if you feel like it's hard to get there if you're sober. Yeah, yeah, dude, right?

AA is a hack for that. It's like you're kind of forced to be with these other men.

It's crazy, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all agree, let's sit down for an hour and like be real as fuck. Yeah, talk about what we're afraid of, how we fucked up in our relationship, what we regret about our parenting. It's like, how are you doing that unless you're hammered at a bar at 2 AM?

When I left New York, all those guy friends were still in New York, and I didn't realize I was doing a lot of that just to have connections. And when all that kind of goes away and you realize you're a homebody, I was like, I really don't have that many friends, real friends. Yeah, yeah. You gravitate to those guys that are going out and the revelry of that and connecting with those guys.

So where were you at optimistically just before The Boys happens? How are you assessing what the future of your life is professionally just before The Boys?

It was dark for me. I mean, in my mind it wasn't really, you know, I know I was probably in a place that a lot of people would love to have been. Sure, you weren't on Taylor's couch, but there is that, you know, what have you done for me lately type thing and keeping keeping up with the Joneses, like, what are these guys doing that I'm not, you know? It's all that.

You're seeing everyone you know on billboards all day long.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's that anxiety there that I don't get even if I'm working in Toronto. That you kind of relax when you're out of LA.

You have no clue what's going on.

Sebastian's getting, like, nominated for Oscars. What the fuck? You can be happy for them and still be like, uh-oh, what am I doing?

No, no, completely. And I'm in a different place now. I'm almost 41, but I'm much more relaxed. But early 30s, it was just a doom loop. What am I gonna do with my life? It felt like there was nothing that was ever gonna happen again. Well, you're 34 probably, right? 7 years ago? 32 probably. Oh, okay. I think I turned 33 the year that The Boys happened. I remember reading it and not getting that many good— you know, again, people's casting imagination is limited. I was getting all these things, it was more the same, I didn't want to do. And I read the script to The Boys, I was like, what the fuck is this?

This is amazing. I would imagine too there's a little bit of a gift in that it's such enormous swing. I can only imagine reading that first script because that shows so much about execution. That script, the pilot, could go so wrong. The odds of it being executed in the way it was is like a 1% chance. Yeah. So I also imagine getting that script and going, wow, this is really cool. And also, if I don't get it, this is probably gonna fail. Like, I could be liberated by what a big swing it is and not get overly worked up about auditioning for it.

Honestly, I'm like, how are they going to do this? Like, how are they going to make this thing? A guy's getting miniature and going in a guy's penis exploding the whole body.

You're like, how the fuck is that?

Felt like a shot at the moon. Like, is this too good to be true? Am I tripping? Like, this is insane. And are they letting us do this? It goes so hard. Yeah, but I did feel— I was like, this is hilarious. I was like, I know this guy, this narcissistic, unself-aware asshole who's in a therapist couch talking about his only friends is the local lobster. Like, that was the audition scene. It was like a monolog of this thing. I just felt connected to it. And like, everyone is reading for it. And yeah, it was a great audition.

Okay, so I'm gonna be dead honest with you, your fear is a little bit grounded, right? Which is like, I only know of you as an actor on Gossip Girl at that time, and I never watched Gossip Girl, so I just fill in the blanks of what Gossip Girl is. Yeah. And so I had this wonderful shocking moment when I'm watching The Boys, and, you know, maybe Kristen said it out loud first where she's like, fucking Chase is so good in this. And I'm like, yeah, this dude's fucking awesome. It was like a huge revelation to me.

I was like, yeah, yeah, well, this dude has got no vanity.

You're the butt of every joke, right? And you are just fucking driving straight into it and you're not protecting yourself at all.

It's the way you got to play that character. It's the only way to do it.

But a lot of actors would get vain and they would just wink enough to go, I want you to know I'm in on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very tempting to go, I want the audience to know I'm a little in on it.

I've always appreciated in the women— I think of like Margot Robbie, even on SNL, that she's not afraid to go there and to be crazy or ugly for comedy, the way to go about is have no ego about it. I think even Anthony, who plays Homelander on the show, came into it and had the same thought about me, like, this asshole's gonna try and alpha me out. And it is just not the right way to play it. So we had a good time on that show.

Yeah, you're so goddamn good on it. It's very impressive. Yeah, you're fucking great. And then your body— oh my God, dude.

Oh my God, your body.

Oh man, do we amp— we ratcheted it up. The training for that? I did. What was the approach? No pasta, no more fucking up in Canada eating spaghetti.

I'll never do it again. I got so excited for this role, I'm like, I'm gonna get shredded or jacked, you know, just for fun, for me, of course. And I don't know what the suit's gonna be, sleeveless, whatever. They didn't give us a trainer. I was like, well, I'm gonna do it on my own. But I did the keto thing for 6 months. It was good for like a few months, and it was brutal after that. I had to stop it.

I know people think it's vain and everything, but the sensation of having control over that.

I was just about to say, it gives you control in a way. It's a healthy— I was able to channel my obsession kind of into that without going overboard, and it was a lot of fun, you know. Like, have time to do that too. If you're an actor and you're not working, or if you are but it's— if you're off, it's the only way to like structure your day. I feel like, yes, a workout or something. It's mentally for me like, yeah, I have to do it.

There's a lot of great performances on that show, but Anthony's is fucking outrageous. Outrageous. It is outrageous. When Chris and I watch the show, we love the fucking boys so much. We're like, the fact that this guy hasn't won every single Emmy is absolutely insane. Insane. He's even been nominated once.

He's despicable.

And yet he has these turns where I feel bad for him. And he's funny sometimes. He's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, man. Is that a performance? And so I'm at a restaurant like 6 months ago and I see him and then we're like, hey, we stand up and we hug. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so great to meet you finally. And he goes, yeah, yeah, since New Zealand. New Zealand. And I was like, what's he talking about? And he goes, you know, I'm without a paddle. And all of a sudden I was like, oh my God. Do you remember? You watched it for the reunion. I know, but we have a dead friend. The whole movie's about our dead friend Billy Newwood. Yeah, he played Billy Newwood. He was the guy. And I'm like, oh my God.

And I've seen it.

I'm like, dude, nothing could be more out of context. I met you in New Zealand 20 years ago. And yes, now of course I realize They show the dead. They show them. Yeah. In our flashback scenes, we're like, I'm wearing a leather jacket and we're like young and cool. Right. He was Billy Ewing.

He's from the museum. You meet him, he's like, hey, how you doing? Oh, wow. Different than Homelander. It's great.

Where did the guy who created it— his name starts with a K. Eric Kripke. Where did he come from?

He came from Supernatural. I know that show with Jensen Ackles and Padalecki. Jensen was on our show as well. It was a great show. Had a long-ass run, that show.

Civil War guy. What was his name?

Yeah, Soldier Boy. Soldier Boy. Yeah, he's got spin-off they're doing. Yeah. Oh, they are? Yeah, they're doing a spin-off.

That's a great character.

Like a prequel. I don't know all the details, but yeah, it's good.

Are you so excited you get to play kind of like a weirdo? So against what people think about you. It was so refreshing to me.

We had a day, like fourth episode, they had a full series order because of Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg. Like, they were behind us. They got the full order. Yeah. I'm like, we're middle of the show. I'm like, are the people gonna like this? Because I was like, you know, squirting down the dolphin, like talking to some inanimate dolphin in the back, and they're moving the van, and like Anthony's over there, like, in an airplane, not saving anyone because he's like, oh, fuck you guys. It was amazing. We're like, are people gonna, like, connect with it? And people really— totally weird.

So he came from Supernatural. Were Seth and Evan around at all?

They were, actually. They didn't come to set that often. They would be at the press stuff, but they would send me emails like, dude, this one line you ad-libbed, I keep replaying it. Like, they were watching. I was like, oh, that's really cool. Evan would, like, email me sometimes, and they were just super fans of the show. They really are, like, comic book fans at heart, and they just wanted to, like, do what they love.

Now, did they have you in mind, or Did you have to really win them over for this? How did you get it?

I don't know the entire genesis of it. I remember them landing on they want to cast people that aren't all their famous friends, basically.

Right.

So they wanted to read everyone for it. And Kripke was in every room for every single— I think he said Anthony. I think Anthony was in New Zealand, made some tape, and they were like, we want that guy. I remember going in and it was like 60 people. I saw the thing. I'm like, oh, I realized I'm like, I'm last of the day.

What's the worst name you saw on the list? And I don't mean they're bad, but you're just like, oh, I'm fucked.

Like actors, you know, you mean?

Well, I'll give you an example. I remember going in for Baby Mama, and I'm sitting in the waiting room, and he's next to me, James Corden, and he's telling me they just flew him from London for this callback. And I go, well, I'm done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15 grand to bring this guy from London here. But there's these moments in auditions where you're just like, I'm dead.

I remember recognizing some names and some friends who had, like, been— they weren't actually in the room because I was, like, last. I remember being upset. These people aren't gonna— it's like a Tuesday. They're gonna see 60 people all day. Oh no. And I didn't even realize that Kripke was going to be in the room at the time. I didn't really know, maybe he was like the creator, or maybe I knew he's like a producer. But I remember being just irritated, and that's kind of the best—

sometimes the best state to be, because like you kind of don't care at that point. You just don't care.

You're not— don't have this air of like, hi, like nice to meet you. Like, I can't get it now, you know. Yeah, yeah. I remember it was before the holidays. I'm like, they're not even gonna remember this. They're gonna go on hiatus top of the year. They're gonna keep recasting it, bring it back in for a million different reads. So I was literally the last person in there, and I was kind of mad kind of went in there and did it, and I kind of heard Kripke chuckling in the corner, and then he was like, okay, try it, do it. Like, you know, he kind of threw me a few improv things.

And you know, the lobster was your—

the lobster thing, and then it was that, and then an intense scene with Starlight, Aaron's character. They changed it in the pilot, in the real pilot, with what I actually do, which is a crazy thing—

sexually assault her.

Yeah, that wasn't in any of the pilots or anything. Okay, they were holding that. Yeah, they were like, hey, this was like a big storyline jumping off for her character in the comics, and we're actually gonna put that back in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. —do. And you're like, oh, I remember being very nervous. Me Too was going out. I was like, oh God, this is terrible.

Yeah, a lot of people are like, I'm not playing that, I don't want to play that.

I remember being like, okay, I'm just gonna own this. We're gonna talk about it and talk about it until we can get this thing right. And they did, took it with very great care. And I was nervous as all, you know, about that airing and like, oh my God, what are people gonna say? Is this gonna be the right timing? Yeah, and not wanting to be a big joke either. Like, we were making fun of it, they did it in a very real way, and it was dark. That was kind of the theme of the show, like you don't want to meet your heroes.

The way they handled the tonal shifts on that show is sublime. It's like you get every single thing you could want in a show in that thing. Trippie's genius. Yeah, you're bringing back so many audition memories thinking of sitting in the room. I can tell you I've been numerous occasions like I have an audition where I'm gonna have to cry and I'm like, yeah, I can't do that on cue, right? And you're sitting there, you can hear a guy who's 3 feet away divide divided by a paper door, and this guy's bawling, and I can hear it. Yeah. And you're just like, oh, I'm so fucked.

Toss the paper there.

You want to leave? You go, I said, just get up right there.

You go in and you're like, so I'm making a different choice.

Yeah. And it's a choice. I presume you guys saw it, crying.

So I'm gonna do this other thing that's very hard to do also.

He's like a trained British dude. Of course. Oh my God.

Your arc on the show. Yeah. You sexually assault someone. Terrible. Then you got to rehab. You grab your public persona and you join this very Scientology-esque church. Amazing. Yeah. Lose your autonomy in there, and then they pair you with a wife, and then she ditches you, and then you find love with an octopus. Yeah. Like, have you pushed back ever? I imagine after season 1 they've built now some confidence with you, like, these motherfuckers can pull off anything. So I'm just— now I can go with God. You enter like season 2 just going like, oh yeah, I'll fucking snorkel beer out of someone's ass. I'll do anything they say because they can land the plane.

Yeah. I mean, season 2 was great because they had this mushroom tea thing and I was like tripping with the gills and talking to them. I thought that was so great and funny. But then season 2, well, Crypti called me up and he's like, have you seen like my octopus teacher? And I was like, yeah. Where are you going? It seemed like that guy was like trying to fuck the octopus.

I was like, uh, kind of. What are you talking about, man? Like, that's your storyline. Oh my God.

I remember being hesitant, but then he was like, no, no, no, but it's real. Like, you can't connect with humans. That's like your safe space. And you keep her like in a tank in your closet. Yeah.

You're kind of mean. She feels like a secret.

And she's, you know, it's very deep. He's like, you're reading poetry to her. She's brilliant.

You fucking didn't clean her tank, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not only will you not let her be in the tank by your bed, but like, it's filthy. Well, people can't see, but she's sitting in there in a murky fucking stew. You know what?

It's kind of like when when people fell in love with their slaves.

Münchhausen syndrome kind of thing?

Well, no, like really when people fell in love with their slaves but they were still enslaved, and it was like, you're over there, but I'm gonna— yeah, I'm—

maybe I will cut that. Yeah, we'll probably take it.

I make the decisions.

Yeah, yeah, you'll decide. Hopefully you're in a good mood.

But also Münchhausen's, I'm very interested in as well.

Her two favorite topics are CTE and Münchhausen. Yeah, really? Yeah, I love If you met someone who their munchausen was claiming they had CTE, you would spray.

Oh, I see, like part of their munchausen is that—

oh, faking that they had CTE.

No, no, no, no, no, hold on. I don't— let's be— I don't want someone with CTE. I'm just always on the lookout for CTE. I just think it's everywhere. I think a lot of people have it.

She thinks 60% of the population has it. So hate to tell you, I might actually heard a couple And she has looked many guests in the face and said, do you think you have CT? It's like, there could be nothing scarier to evaluate is whether or not you're about to turn.

No, I'm not sure. Yeah, maybe.

Thanks for, um, suggesting that.

Yeah, you should get that really checked out.

I did lose my temper at the grocery store yesterday, so yeah, exactly. I've been volatile recently.

Yeah.

Now I hear that it's the biggest show on Prime. Do you have any sense of like how big it is? I want to know. I want to understand. I want to know too.

I guess they don't release the numbers. They say it is It's a very global show. It is, which was kind of shocking because humor, that's the one thing they want is like a global show nowadays. And it was shocking that our show, the humor crossed over.

All people are disgusting, it turns out. Yeah, exactly. Everyone's a dirtbag.

The superhero genre was saturated with the same formulaic storyline. Any time the show comes out, there is like an influx of people like, you know, flight attendants like, oh my God, we can tell people are watching it even in like Europe to Brazil. Like, people are crazy about the show. It's a good feeling, you know?

Yeah, it's really nice. They just cannot miss. No, they're so good. They're so good.

I'll say though, even, even internationally though, it's more Gossip Girl stuff.

That was hugely syndicated, right?

I sometimes turn it on for a little comfort show, good background music.

2009, you got People's Summer's Hottest Bachelor. Did I? You did. I would be both extremely flattered and like, that's so specific. Did you have to make up this category? Summer's hottest. People's Summer's Bonus Bachelor. Such a specific award.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Congratulations. 2009.

Yeah, my heyday. This is unfair of me, but what happened with Footloose? Why were you rehearsing for that?

Yeah, that was an interesting story.

Yeah, what happened?

I remember really wanting it. It was Kenny Ortega, who's amazing. I remember telling him, I'm like, I can't sing or dance. It was an interesting challenge because they're like, no, we're going to, like, learn and do this thing. And they're like, we're going to fly you out and do a big screen test. And I rehearsed for it a little bit, but they were just kind of testing out if I was even trainable, you know, if I even had Basic body awareness, connected with your body at all.

Right.

And I had a whole day of that. And what was funny about that day, they had put in this like reader to read opposite me, a female actress, and she was really good and natural. And we'd eat lunch and she was cool. From Kentucky is Jennifer Lawrence.

No way. Jennifer Lawrence. As the reader?

Yeah, as the reader. And she was like 17, probably hadn't even done that first— Winter's Bone. Hadn't done Winter's Bone. Definitely not yet. But I heard me really cool. And I was like, hey, thank you for being there with me like all day. I was like, yeah, no, it was really good and whatever. But I remember it was Jennifer Lawrence.

That's so funny.

So we did that and I felt good about it. You know, Kenny Ortega was like, oh, it's great. You know, you do this thing. And I think they wanted to go in a totally different direction at some point. They hired a new director like, oh, but you're still going to be the guy. I had signed a contract that I didn't even know what this meant, pay or play at the time.

So that's my dream.

Yeah. Yeah. I never heard of it since. You get paid whether you do the thing or not. So I remember being kind of irritated it didn't work out because I like the new director. Craig Brewer seemed to be a cool guy and they went like maybe darker with it. But I get it. Yeah, they hired— I forget his name, but they hired a real dancer. I remember doing a screen test with Julianne Hough. That's right. And she was phenomenal dancing, and she got me there, and she made me look good.

Drugged you along.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Threw me around. I was like, she's gonna be great. I'm gonna have fun with her doing that screen test. But anyway, I remember, like, Go With God, that's great. And I got paid to do it. Oh, I felt like I'm like, I probably would have not been able to dance or sing properly.

But ego-wise, that hurts because it's like, oh my God, they don't want me so badly that they're gonna pay me anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

I remember feeling okay with it. I got paid enough to not do this thing, and I don't have to sing and dance. I got out of it.

Why would they do that?

Because they need you committed, and then likewise, they can sue you for that money if you don't show up. So it's like, it's a mutually assured annihilation kind of situation. Exactly what it is. But the only time it happened to me where it was really great is I got fired from Will Grace. Really? Yeah, episode of Will Grace in a table read.

Come on, that's a crazy story because they always tell you you're not going to get fired at the table read, but it Fence.

I'm going to go further and say that they kind of begged me to do it. I was like, I was too busy. I'm doing this show, but I'm friends with Sean Hayes. Finally, I'll do it all to come in and just get fired off the table. But they were like, of course they're going to still pay you. I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. And then that same week, Netflix called and they're like, do you want to be a guest judge on this cooking show? And it's X amount of money. So I just remember that day being on there and being like, oh, I'm getting paid for Will and Grace right now and this cooking show. Worked out. Fuck. I finally got my dream come true.

That's great. That's great.

We share in common that we've both been directed by Lake Bell. I love Lake Bell.

Yeah, I just saw her yesterday. Did you?

She's the best. She's the best.

You got to go to her auction thing next time she does this auction.

I'd love to.

Okay, I love auctions. I never miss an auction. Well, they were right, these people that told us. You're a fucking champ, Chase Smith. Yeah, season 5 obviously just started airing.

Just came out. Yeah, last week.

So exciting. I know you've already been asked this, and I think I think you're smart in saying that The Deep is a tricky character to try to have his own show because you need some kind of redemption. He's not a fun character if he's redeemed in some weird way, right? Right, right, right. But with all that said, how do we keep doing The Deep, man?

I'll tell you, I pitched them a spin-off like 3 years ago, Evan and Kripke, you know, like loose pitch, like over like, like email, or maybe it was in person. Like, it was— I mean, in hindsight, it might have been before Barry, but it was like, what if he's like a shitty actor, he's kicked out, and he's like a D-list actor, you know, trying to like some really funny B-movie, but it was like you see him shooting the bad movie like Tropic Thunder, but it's like Barry. It was kind of an all over the place pitch, but I was like, what if he has to come to LA and we make fun of the industry type of thing? They liked it. Like, oh yeah, but like, you know, now it's like no one's opening the wallets to do many things. But how do we keep him? He doesn't have to be fully redeemed, but it would be fun to like do a half-hour comedy.

All right, well, you probably have other plans, but I don't hate the idea of you playing the Deep in your free time. You can be president.

It could be like idiocracy.

That's a good idea. Yeah, you know. Yeah. All right, well, Chase, what a delight. This has been so fun. Everyone was right. Pleasure, man. And everyone should check out The Boys. Sincerely, if you don't watch The Boys— who was I just talking to that said they had an— oh, fucking Tyler outside. I couldn't believe Tyler. Tyler on it. I'm like, what do you hate to laugh? Oh, you guys are fans, man.

No, thank you.

Oh, huge, huge. And then our friend Anna.

Anna, she loves it. We got trainers, and I tried to give them to her. That's illegal. It didn't work anyway, so she was pissed.

Yeah, leave that in or not. That'll be like with the slavery thing, whether you're— okay, all right, great meeting you.

Nice to meet you too, man. Good luck with everything. Thank you, guys.

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. We were just discussing what your nephew—

right, yes, what my nephew will call me.

Yeah, because the girl's called Carly Titi. Yes, which is so cute and is her permanent name now.

I know. No, I, I forget her name's Carly sometimes.

Yeah, I only call her Titi. I call her Titi to her face. I like it. It's so cute. It's so much more endearing. Exactly.

Nicknames are always better than non-nickname. Sorry.

Well, not always, but sure, if they're mean. Well, those are slurs. You do occasionally meet someone, you're like, oh, that's your nickname? Really? What's your real name? Like Blaze, you know, Gunner. Gunner. Oh guys, those aren't nicknames.

Okay, okay. Those are like a pseudonym. Those are like they took that on as their persona. Nom de plours.

Nom de plours.

Nom de plours. But a nickname, a shortened or cute version of your name or something people call you. Yeah, to be— to love you is so— it's the best.

Best. Dad. I cherish Dad. Yeah, that's the best you got.

Aaron calls me Dad. No one else does. Um, well, two people do. Three people do, including Aaron.

Yeah, yeah. And TT sometimes. Yep. Uh-huh. And you sometimes. And me. Um, I'm sad Rob— Rob's never called me Dad or Daddy.

Oh, Rob, you don't have to call him Daddy, okay? HR, you do not.

I'll go with Daddy. I'll do— oh my God.

I just think that would be such a wonderfully uncomfortable thing for you and I to have as a bit, that in public he called me Daddy. He would be like, I would— what an unhealthy work environment. Exactly, exactly. In front of a guest. Do you want your coffee, Daddy? Daddy, are you ready for your coffee? I mean, the age gap is, is such that they might think you're my son.

Well, you do look quite young, Rob. Wobby wob. How old are you again, Rob?

Uh, 37. Yeah, no problem. No problem. 14.

I'm 51. You're 12 years older than me, so you're 13 years older than Rob.

Look, he's 37, I'm 51. That's 14. But you're January. Yeah, although I'm June. I'm almost 30. Yeah, June. He's close to you. January. Okay, I have a funny story. Oh great. So you may remember that I was asked to go speak at Delta's class about Malala. Yeah, yeah, which was a little stressful because like I'm not an expert on Malala. I certainly did my research.

So she did a report, right?

They had a whole section on her. They had read her— so cool— maybe both of her books. And, you know, they really got into everything that happened in Pakistan. And, yeah, um, and then so Miss Brown, who I love— shout out Miss Brown— she, uh, invited me to talk about Malala. And then, and then of course it evolved into like the boys asking me what sports stars we interviewed, which was hilarious. What's so funny is I couldn't— on the spot, I couldn't think of anyone. Tom Brady.

Well, I got to him.

Okay, but mind you, we've had so many— like, I couldn't remember. Shad.

Andy Roddick.

Oh Lord, I was just like, one of the ones like, you ever interview any sports?

You know? Yeah. So Dwyane Wade.

Yo, yeah, there's been a million. But I did, I was like, oh yeah, well, I've done a lot of them. And I'm like, I've done a lot of NBA players. I know I've done some NFL players. And then I go, oh, Tom Brady. That's the one I came up with.

Okay. And this kid literally— we could say Simone Biles, but she won't come on. We would have said you, we would have said it.

I'd remember her the most. Um, but this I said Tom Brady, and this boy shot out of his chair. He couldn't sit in his chair. He said, you interviewed Tom? Like, it was so funny. Anyways, that was that. Yeah, I did that. So Lincoln's whole 7th grade class is doing a whole segment on— for, I think, literature or English or whatever— a whole segment on podcasting. Like, for, I guess, months, they're gonna crazy learn about podcasting. And then I think they're all going to make a podcast, right?

Oh, she has such a leg up.

Well, so one of the— one of the teachers said, would, you know, would your dad be willing to come in and talk? Yes. And then so Lincoln asked me and I said, yeah, of course. And so it was approaching. And then the night before, Lincoln was such a ball of nerves, as I totally understand. I mean, the notion of one of my parents coming into my 7th grade, I just—

and you're a live wire.

I'm a livewire, but I just would have been terrified for so many reasons. Like, I hope they think they're cool. If they're not, I got to fight everyone. If you think my mom— if you're mean to my mom now, I got to fight everyone.

If anyone makes fun of you or makes fun of my mom, everyone's dead.

Okay. So anyways, so I know it's stressful, and I'm already honored she's even open to letting me come. I guess that says a lot. But the night before, She was like, okay, you cannot wear those— your light-colored Levi's that have a hole in the back.

That's fair. And I was like, okay, it's inappropriate.

You cannot wear a headband. And I go, okay, what do you think people are gonna think? You know, I like to poke. What do you think?

You know, what did you—

what'd she say? Just don't wear it.

It's drawing too much.

And then I said, okay, well, I'll just wear a hat. You cannot wear a hat. You can't imagine, Monica, what this list became. Of things, um, I couldn't— could not wear.

Yeah, it was— it all aesthetic-based, or was it like, you can't say this, or you can't—

it was all esthetic. Well, okay, we had this bit going. This backs up a whole week.

She—

they— thank goodness the teacher urged the students to write out questions like last week. And so Lincoln said, I want to hear like, what are your answers going to be to one of these questions? And also, I don't know why we've been watching a good deal of British stuff. I don't know. That's in the mix. So I said, okay, let's workshop this and you be Lincoln in this situation. Okay. This is a week ago. Okay. And I said, ask me how many episodes we've done.

Yes. Mr. Lincoln's dad. Yeah. How many episodes of your podcast have you made?

1,000. That's a lot, isn't it? Ew. Isn't it? Ew. Whole episodes. Isn't it? What do you think? Isn't it?

It's so aggressive. It's so aggressive and loud. Like, why'd it get so loud?

I think what made it so funny for both of us is if anyone might do that, you know, there is just a thin threat of that. That's what makes it good. Of course I would never do that. Are you sure? But she has seen me act bizarre enough that I'm sure some tinge of her is like, Jesus, does he think he's gonna do this and I'm gonna laugh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I keep hitting her with it all week, and then And then I am told all these things I got to wear. Okay, so then you and I recorded someone. We had to record someone earlier than we normally do so that I could get there. That's why we did it.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, we had a 10 a.m.

I know, and I didn't know why, but I figured it was just because it wasn't yesterday. Was it? It was 2 days ago. 2 days ago. Okay, so I left that interview and I think I was wearing a hat or I don't even know what the hell was going on. But the point is, is I went upstairs and I put on like all the appropriate approved clothes and then I got in front of the mirror and Monica, I have never fretted over my hair this much. In my— way worse than if I'm like on my way to Kimmel, which I do my own hair when I'm on a talk show. I was in there like, fuck, is this it? And I was like wrestling with it, and I was like, fuck, it does not look nice.

Like, it's so important I don't embarrass her. Oh, it's so cute because this— yeah, I imagine like if I'm, if I'm putting myself as a little girl and I— my dad's coming to class and I'm like, oh my God, a joke's on his way. Please do not— just don't Don't, don't. But then now cut to however many years, you know, 20 years later since I'm so young. Yeah. Um, that if I heard that he was like worried about his hair because I said that, like, oh man. Yeah, yeah. Anywho, how did it go?

Oh, so it was not just her class, you know, it was the entire 7th grade. How many people? Um, 80 8. Okay. Yeah. Um, so first of all, I got there greeted by one of the teachers. They're also awesome. Okay. This is so lucky. I'm just so delighted with the school that my kid goes to. Yeah. And of course they want to know, they want to know everything. They want to know what kind of show it is. It's an interview show. Or why, what makes a good interviewer? And then they want to know the mechanics of it, right? Like, you record for how long? What's the editing process like? All that kind of stuff. But at any rate, um, They did open it up to questions. And again, this is the incredible— like, I can't even compute what happens at this school because it's all girls.

Oh, that's important to say.

It's all girls. Yeah. One hand after another, boom, boom. Every girl had a question. They're so confident and they're just question, question, question. It was really, really fun. And Lincoln sat in the directly front row in front of me, and I said to her, I'm like, I thought you were more of like a burnout like I was. I thought you'd be in the back row trying to hide. And she was front and center. Yeah. And then I took a big swing. Oh, uh-huh. What'd you do? I got asked— I can't remember the exact wording of it, but I got asked like, have I ever gotten really emotional in one of the interviews or something like that?

Yeah. Wow, that's an astute question.

Yeah, but it was, it was a little— I wish I could remember the particulars. However the question was, it led me to— and as soon as I started talking about, I was like, this is a disaster, but I'm pot committed. I've already begun talking about it, which was Dove Cameron.

Oh, I thought you're gonna talk about your mom.

No, uh, uh, just as bad. I said, um, does anyone know Dove Cameron? All of them know Dove Cameron. Okay, right.

Well, they should start listening.

Well, they're, they're young.

I was gonna ask, how many did you convert? Like, honestly, we need them.

That's the age. I'd say of this 88, maybe 6 are in. Yeah, that's pretty good. Pick up 6 listeners. Okay, so they all knew Dove. They all knew Dove. And Um, I'm explaining the episode and I told them what happened to her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, her father died by suicide. Yes. And she thought he didn't love her. Yeah, it's horrifying. It's so— and then she found this box. Yeah. And she found this baby book, and in it he had written, "My best friend." Yeah, that's the saddest. And then as I'm telling it, of course I'm back in the moment that I totally broke down the the first time we heard the story. Yeah. And then here's the biggest— this could have been career-ending for me as a parent. And I said— and I was very emotional because this little person's my best friend.

Oh, and then what?

That could have been really embarrassing for her. No. And I think so. She looked at me and smiled so very— yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I rode home and I got another helmet, and then I came back and I picked her up and we rode home together. And she said she was really proud of me. Oh, all told it went well, but high stakes. Again, I don't get nervous to go speak in in front of people, and I was, I was very nervous.

You should. Yeah, I'm glad you took it seriously.

Her only complaint was the way I was calling on people. I got a little too animated when I was calling people. You! Oh my God, great, back row! You know that I was getting— I was getting pumped, especially if someone seemed shy or— I was like really trying to— oh, that's the— celebrate them for the worst because they want—

they like it, they're already nervous, and then you make it work. Okay, um, listen, so we had that day, the interview that we did in the morning that you were coming from was also a very—

I told them about it. Oh my God. Because they asked me if I ever interviewed a killer.

Well, that we can't tell people that. Well, I guess we can. Guys, there's a, there's an interesting episode.

I said I have not interviewed a killer that I know of, but one hour ago. Yeah. And I told them that.

Okay. And then that episode, um, okay. Also, has any parent like reached out like, hey, please don't ever, hey, it was a little inappropriate. Great for you to bring up.

Um, I was debating those things because I got into real dicey— I did paint myself into a corner really quick. I've had like a panic because they asked me who I'd want to interview that's dead, and I was like, oh my God, we just had this kind of debate on the podcast, and all of a sudden I'm saying I'd interview Jesus, and this is a— this is a Catholic school.

Well, that's— they probably like that more.

But I was saying why I want to interview him is I'd love to be able to look at him and see be like, is this guy really— I was just honest. You said that? I did. I said— and then I realized later, after I had given that answer, that I had just assumed I'll be talking to him in English. And I remembered, this guy doesn't speak English. I'm saying all this in front of the— and the teachers are around, and I'm like, sorry, girl.

Oh my God. I said—

and then I realized, oh, he doesn't speak English. And then I said— but then I realized, oh, well, that would be the proof. If he magically just started speaking English, I'd be like, well, this guy really is the Son of God. I said all that. That's crazy. It was an hour and 40 minutes. Okay, that's a long time to get me talking where I'm not gonna— but the teachers did not mind it. I, I was like checking in with them a little bit, and I think they're just like, yeah, we're here to debate this. Okay, well, that's cool.

Did you mention JonBenét Ramsey? She was an important part of that conversation. I did not bring up JonBenét Ramsey. What if you were like, you know, there was a girl about at your age.

Yeah, well, I want to look out at you guys a minute. I can't help but think of—

yeah. Um, okay, well, that's awesome that you did that.

I'm just basing it on, like, Lincoln's hip. She knows what's going on. Yeah, I'm just granting the rest of them the same, like, cognitive aptitude as her.

But it's not— okay, what I would— what I would push back a second on— they can be smart and thoughtful and curious. But a lot— there is a wide range of, of how exposed that age is. There's a wide range.

But I don't— they're all watching Netflix. They're all listening to the news. Like, they know what's going on in the world. They know there's murderers. They know people do and don't believe in God. Like, they, they're not 8-year-olds. And I just— I always hated being pandered to. I know. That's what I'm saying. You're doing some projection because you, you hated that? Possibly. And— or so some percentage, yes.

Did you bring up anything sexual?

Nothing sexual. Oh my God, thank God. No, I— that's— it's an all-girls school. I'm an old dude. No, I was somehow— thank goodness— knew where to draw the line. I didn't say anyone was hot or anything. Oh my God, not the students, the guests. None of our guests. I was— I didn't say any of our guests were hot. You know who was the sexiest Sexiest guest we ever had. What if I said that?

Oh my God, like, I know nobody asked. Yeah, nobody asked, but I know you're thinking it.

Anyhow, I do— I am, I am, I am a firm believer in the fact that the kids know way more than you think they do, and it's okay to talk about things if you— if they get to see murders and stuff, then we can talk about everything.

I guess that's true.

Yeah, I think the whole like, no one's protecting people from topics is the way to navigate topics, but I also think they're gonna be protected.

Like, like, I think just because I didn't talk to my parents about certain things didn't mean I was like sheltered in the world. You, you talk to your friends about it and you figured out—

that's always my point is like, yeah, you found out all of them, but you found out from peers, and it would have been cool to have the parents' perspective as an adult who's been through some stuff.

Yeah, well, I'm glad it went well. I do think you failed on on a, like, big opportunity to get us some listeners. Well, yeah, Armchair— did you bring up Armchair Anonymous?

Yeah, I think, um, I think Lincoln did.

See, she's doing the Lord's work. Ding ding ding for us.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Well, what's problematic about Armchair Anonymous— I just, you know, I say like we do a show. I was explaining Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and I was talking about our workflow, you know, interviews with listeners. Yeah, we don't have a single prompt that's really cool to tell them about Armchair Anonymous. Well, you want to talk about Dicey Water, but they're all listening. Well, the funny thing is, is that is the show they would want to listen to. Yeah, exactly. But I wasn't really free to promote it because again, the topic, I wouldn't have felt comfortable.

No, you just say— well, that because there's one topic that pops in your mind all the time, but we have others. It's like evacuation. Yeah, you don't have to do that one either.

It's like all I could think about when they were— they wanted to know what the show was about, is just all I kept thinking about is the guy who cut his own penis off. I was like, don't tell that. Your brain does that. You're like, fucking whatever you do, do not mention. It's like the second that question was asked, I just I just thought of that penis thing. I was like, and that's all I could think about is don't say that.

Okay, well, example. Okay, well, would you— would that story have popped into your mind? No, never.

Which one would have popped?

I guess I would have been like, oh, um, tell us about a bad job interview, or tell us about a meat queue. Oh yeah, we do have nice ones.

Yeah, yeah, definitely ones you could have said. Yeah, water parks is this week.

Water Water parks. Those are great.

But then nasty stuff happened at the water park.

Well, you don't have to tell them what happens. Just they're really funny stories. That all end nasty. People love to, um, people your age tend to listen and love them. You just, uh, you just give them the links and then have them click. In fact, so Lincoln is running for an office at school. Yeah. And, um, I haven't told her this yet, but okay, when she wins, yeah, I I hope maybe like— I'm just like hoping she's in charge of the announcements or something. Okay, okay. And then she can play clips and slowly convert. Okay, a whole school.

Yeah, yeah, you gotta think about this.

Exactly, future. You gotta think ahead like this.

I look out of that audience of, of young ladies and I was like, these girls got it. I know, like they're, they're such badasses. So cool. I was in the audience, I, I saw myself She was in the dead back row. Oh, no. I have a question. I have two questions. One was legit. Second question, why haven't you interviewed me? When are you going to interview me? And I'm like, all you got to do is win a Nobel Peace Prize. I got a seat open for you. So she's funny. Later, second round of questioning. Oh, boy. Right back at it. When am I going to be on the show?

I'm like, this— she didn't know that the—

okay. I'm like, this is me.

I'm looking at me. Yeah. Does Lincoln get along with her?

Yeah. I asked her about her specifically. I'm like, I I like that girl in the back row, uh, and she's like, yeah, she's got, you know, problems.

No, no, no, no, no, no, she, she's considered—

it's interesting, kid. And I guess we had this, but we never said it this way, but they have friendship groups. Oh yeah. And they're like delineated, and everyone knows what friendship group they're in. And like, and there's migration, like someone will try to join a different friendship group and they all sit together and stuff. Yeah. Lunch. Yeah. So that gal was not in her friendship group, right? Which is not to say she doesn't like her. Yeah, she doesn't dislike the people not in her friendship. Yes. It's complex, man. Oh, I remember the little monkeys. They— I remember it.

It's— remember it, it still exists. It still exists. It's actually really funny because I have a few new friends, which is weird, you know, as an adult it's weird to have new friends. Yeah. And I have a few new friends and like they, they have friendship groups and I have a friendship group and it's like kind of weird to like cross-pollinate. Yeah. And it, I guess it just never ends. Like you're like, oh, but would they like me? Yeah. Well, because you know the podcast I'm currently obsessed with, One person's in that podcast? Well, Aaron and Sarah's podcast. Yeah. Uh, they're friends with one of my new friends. Okay. And it's so strange.

Are you going back and listen— you are? You're— how many, like, what's your routine? I don't know. It's like every night, or—

I feel weird about it. Yeah, I like— don't want this to get back to them, but it will because we speak clear freely.

But you're like peak obsession right now.

And I know what I know— this is no offense to Aaron and Sam, the podcast is great, very— I mean, obviously I find it extremely enjoyable. Yeah. But what I think is like, oh, I'm self-soothing somehow, and I don't know what— I don't know why. Like, I don't know what's causing that.

Yeah.

And why that's the salve. Yes. I think it probably has to to do with moving into this big house and being by myself. Okay, maybe. Yep. That like I have friends around in quotes around my house, you know, just like makes the house more lively. So you have it playing throughout the house and you walk from room to room? I have that ability. I have speakers, but I just do carry my phone. I do know how. Oh, okay. But I, I have found myself, I just carry my phone around.

Have you ever put the speaker?

Yeah, I do for music. I do when I have friends over. When I'm entertaining. Your new friendship group. Yeah, but maybe because it doesn't feel like they're with me if they're in the wall.

If you're not holding them.

Yeah. And it's interesting.

I think it's an old salve, if I could. And I don't know the show. Oh, yeah. What I know is, um, and I say salve, but I just have— I say salve.

I know you make it the L silent, so I don't know what's right. Probably you.

No, I always do for 30 years. So I know Aaron and Sarah. I've I've known Sarah for 22 years, I guess, and I like both of them so much. Uh, and, um, so just let me say that. Yeah, I've never listened to the show, so I don't, I don't really— I have no position to have this opinion, but I'm gonna have it anyways. You know, they're very popular girls. They're like hot popular girls. And I think your Sav was like Friends. Friends is very hot popular kids.

Yeah, well, you mean people who liked Friends or the friends?

The friends. I mean, they're hot and popular. I mean, the whole America loves them and they have got great style and the new hairdos. Like, they're also weirdos.

Like, Phoebe's a weirdo and like Ross is a paleontologist. Yeah, hot one.

Um, I think they're— they represent very popular. Okay, it's certainly not Seinfeld where it's like you've got Costanza Rosa and, uh, Richardson, whatever his name was. Yeah, um, Kramer. Kramer.

I— okay, here's the— here's— I don't think I agree with you, but I, I tangentially agree with you, okay? In that, that what I was so attracted to with the Friends is, is their intimacy, how much they loved each other unconditionally, how like how safe that group of people was. And I wanted that so badly. Potentially Aaron and Sarah are doing a similar thing. I know, I mean, I'm coming up with this real time, maybe because they're sisters, right? So there is this just like— Unbreakable bond. Bond intimacy that nothing, I mean, they're mean to each other, you know, they're really like kind of sometimes I'm like, oh my God, this is wild.

Yeah, they talk to each other like siblings talk.

Yeah, and I don't have that. I mean, obviously I have a younger brother, but I don't have a sister. And I definitely, I always wish I had that. So maybe it's a little bit of that. Like, oh, I wish I had this. I mean, I have friends, but it's not the same.

There's a lot of things you'll have in life. You're not gonna have a sister. That's the thing.

There are a lot of things I can make happen for myself.

Yeah, I don't wanna limit you, but I do wanna tell you, you're not gonna have a sister that's your age.

Unless. What could happen? Separated at birth.

Reunited.

What if Nermy called you like, I need to tell you something? And I guess Monica— hey, that was pretty good. Thank you. Whoa, that was pretty good. I don't want to hear anymore.

I know, I knew you didn't want to.

Weird. Going home to see her for Mother's Day weekend. Oh nice. Yeah. Oh, one last thing.

Last Friday Lincoln had the day off school, uh-huh, so we went to the go-kart track and we were on our way way home from the go-kart track and we were on Los Feliz Boulevard and I said, oh, look here. I go, oh, look, here's Monica's. We're coming up on Monica. I spotted your car from like 100 yards back. So we were definitely coming up to get next to you. And it was what timing. The universe smiled on us because right as we were catching you, an ambulance was coming through the intersection. So you were trying to get over in the right lane, but I had just slid into the right lane. And the look you gave me real time and Link and I were people staring at you, and you like turned and you fucking— you're like, what the hell? Look with your eyes. Yes. And we were laughing.

I know. And then it was you guys and I. Then I laughed, but I was still like, go! Like, they're— the ambulance is trying to come.

Yeah. And it was fine. The ambulance went in the other lane.

Really stressed me out.

It wasn't in our lane. It was— I know, but still, you were doing what you're supposed to do, but I was there.

I did.

And I was like, who is this fucking asshole? And it was not getting over and getting also preventing me from getting over. And it was you.

How much do you think seeing her little face smiling and buffeted? Of course it helped. Okay. Yeah. If it was just me and I was waving, would you—

No, I also knew. I mean, once it was you, I was like, oh, they're fucking with me. Yeah. So it was— I would have still been like, I still would have laughed. Okay. Okay. But I also was like, man, but like, what if they don't get to— what if someone dies, you know, because the ambulance didn't get there because Dax wanted to say hi to me? Yeah, that didn't happen.

Nothing happened with the ambulance, for the record. I love how rare your car is because I always know if it's you.

Yeah. Do you know my license plate?

No, I don't need to. Okay. Yeah, because no one has— I've never seen your car in that color. Really?

No, I've seen it a couple couple times, and I always like— I like, I like that. All right, well, I mean, facts. Well, let's do some facts. Okay, yes, this is for Chase. Chase Crawford. Chase Crawford. What a likable fucking guy.

Very likable. Oh, so likable. You can tell. No wonder he's gotten along with everybody.

Yeah, got a lot. He had a lot of endorsements, like, from people.

Tell the audience about— no, okay. Wow, I thought that would be something you would share for sure.

Fine. Okay, um, there's a scene in Gossip Girl, I forget what season, and it's not like that sexual of a scene, but he's in a car. Well, they're, they're making out and like they're obviously like, they're either post-quittal, pre- or just, they're just, they're just messing around. Yeah, yeah, in a car, him and this older woman. Oh, maybe that's— oh wow, I predicted that I'd be a cougar one day. Anyway, when I, when I used to watch the show, I loved that scene and I would watch it multiple times because I thought it was so hot. I thought he was so hot and he had like his hands on her and I thought it was really hot.

He liked how his— what his hands were doing. I love hands. Yeah, what are you gonna do?

What can you do?

What can you do? Yeah.

Anyway, um, speaking of, when was Ziegers friend Zegers, Kevin Zegers, on Gossip Girl. He was on from 2009 to 2011. He was in 10 episodes across seasons 3 and 4. Damien Dalgaard.

Sounds very rich. Yeah, he was— was he playing a rich, rich bad boy? Drug dealer. Zegers is now a full-blown cowboy. Do you know this?

From his show, right?

Well, I think that's where it started. Oh, but now he's genuinely— he was just going for like 4 days. Not for the show, not for money, to help another rancher. Oh, he was castrating bulls and roping and doing the whole—

he loves the whole thing.

He's doing like the shit that's gnarly. Like, wow, good for him. Castrating?

No, thank you. Actually not good for—

I don't know, that sounds yucky. Oh, pulling balls out.

Why does he want to do that? He thinks he's like, I need to be more rugged. No, I think he got a bug for it.

Enjoys it. He was— he got invited, I think, from Taylor to go do this, like, uh, showing cutting horses. You know, cutting horses, they sep— they can separate out, uh, one cow from the herd. So they're really agile, and they kind of get into this back and forth. They pick a cow, they try to separate it from the herd, and the cow's trying to get away from that. So the horse is constantly going left, right, trying to outflank him, like he's covering him in basketball. So to stay on that horse is pretty wild. Like, You got to be a good rider to be riding a horse cutter. And so they were showing horse cutting horses, I presume to sell at some auction or something, and Ziegers was demonstrating the horse cutting. Wow. On this horse. And I watched the video, I was like, by God, he's really fucking doing it.

Horses are having a moment. Oh yeah, you rode horses, and I caution people to use—

yeah, yeah, be careful on them.

And Ziegers, I guess, is a cowboy. And, um, that untold on horses.

And, and Clooney's beer is all about horses. Yeah.

And, um, Sarah Foster has a horse. She does. Yeah, I know that its name is Rolex. How much did Pepperdine buy that property for? Pepperdine University's main 138-acre Malibu campus land was donated. Take one second.

138 acres on the PCH. I know.

Okay, go ahead. Donated in 1968 by the Adamson-Ringe family.

Mm, that's the best way to get property. Exactly. Okay, wow, 138 acres right there. That's worth $400 or $500 million if it's just flat. I mean, if there's nothing even on it.

Wow. Um, how many deaths per square mile on the PCH? It says while traffic safety data for the PCH is generally measured in fatalities per mile or total crashes rather than per square mile. The 21-mile stretch of PCH through Malibu has experienced a high concentration of fatalities, with roughly 61 deaths reported over the 15 years leading up to late 2024.

And no one cares, but I, I said it briefly in the episode, the problem is, is people are parallel parking on either side of this 6-lane, right? There's a, there's a middle turning lane, there's 2 lanes lanes. People are going 60 miles an hour and people are making U-turns across all 5 or 6 lanes to find the beach parking spot. No, yeah, it's a bad motorcycle— in particular, it's like probably the worst stretch for motorcycles.

Oh my God. Um, the movie that Chase shot in Turks and Caicos, I'm not sure, um, but it was prob— it was probably Riptide. That would make sense. And then there's also Long Lost Son.

We went Turks and Caicos. We did.

Yeah, Loaded, uh, The Haunting of Molly Hartley. I'm just reading a lot now, like a lot of his credits, but I kind of think it was Riptide.

It makes a lot of sense. What wouldn't make sense is a movie called The Mountain Escape.

That would be— but you never know.

You don't know, but that would make no sense.

You never know. Okay, um, now not to do this, I know I don't love doing this, but I do feel like I have to. Okay, actually, yeah, I'm not going to. Go ahead. Okay, so it's Abercrombie and Fitch.

Oh, that's fine. Okay, I actually am happier I don't know the real—

well, no, now you know it right, you can say it right.

What is right? Fitch. Fitch, not Finch.

Well, now I'm worried.

Oh my God, Finch is a bird. You're right.

Yeah, Fitch.

But what the fuck is Abercrombie?

Abercrombie and Fitch.

Yes, great, but what is an Abercrombie? People's names. I don't even say— I'm saying it right now, but normally you should know. I don't say Abercrombie, I say Ambercrombie.

Oh, you do?

I do. I say Ambercrombie and Fitch. No, and Finch. Ambercrombie and Finch. It's Scottish surname. Okay, well, no disrespect to that family, but just what a cool name.

I think it's cool. Abercrombie.

I just am impressed someone was like, yeah, we'll call it Ambercrombie and Finch. Well, no one's I'm just calling it that because that's not what— and then everyone's like, what? And they're like, yeah, it'll work. And it did.

Yeah, I was obsessed with it. That's why I knew I was right, but then I second-guessed. I'll tell you when it backfired.

Zathura. Like, it's dangerous to name something, something people can't pronounce.

But most people can pronounce Abercrombie.

I'm sorry, I don't know. I've not seen the data. Or the data. Me either. Yeah, I know Zathura was a real struggle, and part of the whole ad campaign was they had bought like a whole episode of The Apprentice where the task was to get people to know how to pronounce the fucking name of this movie. And I was like, this is not great. That's bad. Yeah, that's not great.

Well, also because Zathura is like, well, could it be Zathura?

Like we're saying Zathura. Exactly. And then once they found out they were saying it wrong, they're like, fuck it, I can step up to the ticket window, there's 6 movies, I know I can say the name of this one.

I'll say that. No, but part of me like, get over yourself. Just like, just say I want that Z movie. Like, why would you let it stop you? People have such big egos. Okay, um, married guys, you said live 11 years longer. I said that?

I don't know what— no, I was being facetious. I think they live longer.

Yeah, studies show on average roughly 2 to 8 years longer than unmarried.

Then you add daughters into that mix, you could hit 11. Huh? Uh, daughters, every— that's different for only for men, not for women. Uh, every daughter that a man has on average.

But I don't know what the crossover—

I don't know, like, if that data is affected by people who have daughters. Yeah.

Okay, now he accidentally— now I'm gonna do it to him— Abercrombie Fitch. He accidentally said season 2 twice in a sentence, and I think he meant season 3 when he was talking about the octopus. Yeah, that sounds right. I mean, the epic octopus scene is in season 3, so yeah. Oh, who did end up hiring for Footloose. So I think Kenny Wormald— that sounds right— he played, um, yeah, this is him, Kenny Crombie and Fitch.

Yeah, he's a real professional dancer, Kenny Wormald, or Wormald, um, and the director's Craig Brewer.

He might have said Craig Brewer, but I think he said Craig Bryce.

Oh, okay. A lot of thanks in this fact check.

Oh, one thing I want to make clear, um, I look— my mouth looks kind of weird in this episode. Oh, that's because I have a lozenge in my mouth because that was during my cough attack period.

Oh, okay, the season of coughing, your coughing era.

So that was lozenge-based. Okay, I don't want people to think I had like weird Botox, right?

One of our episodes just aired where my stye was very, very evident. I was like, oh yeah, that was quite evident.

Yeah, you could see it.

Yeah, for sure.

But you know, I mean, I don't—

I'll live. I just don't like the, the connection with pink eye. I know, because pink eye makes you think of poop in your eye, and I don't have any poop in my eye. No. And I didn't then and I don't now. Okay. Yeah, I had a sty from stress.

I know, but also like, I don't think I would have thought it was pink eye.

There was a moment where my eyeball was like beet red. I know. And that, that it screamed pink eye. I even think someone said— I think my sister said, hey, oh, you pink eye. Oh, like, no, I wipe my butt with toilet paper, not my hand.

Titi. Yeah, but sometimes you still could get poop particles.

I couldn't, but yeah, other people—

you're the one that sticks your finger up your butt when you shower. Okay, so yeah, you've said that aloud. Okay, that's it.

Love you. Love you.