Transcript of Will the U.S. surprise everyone at this World Cup? New

We've asked the producers, or I have anyway, to try and keep us apart as much as possible before we record an episode. And this morning, or this afternoon, goodness only knows what time it is, and I was in makeup and you crept in and I was like, no, I can't see. It feels like we're getting married. Do you know what I mean? When you're trying to avoid each other.

It wasn't until that moment for the writers.

Daz, Daz, he can't be in here. From Apple News, I'm Rebecca Lowe.

And I'm Brendan Hunt.

And this is After the Whistle. It's 2026.

We're just a few days out from the biggest World Cup in history, and it's time to check in on how the US men's national team is doing in the lead-up.

Plus, Brendan, we've got some thoughts, or I have, on the 8, yes, 8 rule changes for this year's tournament.

Reminder, there might be adult language. This podcast is brought to you by Verizon, an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup than Verizon. Well, golly gee, we're back!

Brendan bloody Hunt!

Rebecca bloody— am I using that correctly? Correct. Lo! 2026!

In real life! We've got a sign, we've got a studio.

We've got truly uncomfortable proximity. Like, we've— like, people— we literally have never done this show in the same room before. We've actually finally been in the same room a few times now, 3 or 4 times in our whole lives, knowing each other for 12 years. Yeah. But this, I don't know about this.

I don't know. This might not work. I mean, let's call it what it is. We only ever do things remotely. This might not work, but let's plow on with episode 1 and hope that it does work. Give it a shot. The other thing about After the Whistle is that we do only tend to do it really close together, like World Cup 2022, which was basically Christmas, and then the Women's World Cup was about 6 months later, wasn't it?

Mm-hmm.

Or we just don't do it for ages, which is what's happened for the last 3 years. So essentially, please tell our viewers— oh, and we have viewers now.

Viewers, all right.

Never had viewers before.

Oh boy.

We were only audio. Look how far we've come. Right, tell everybody.

We're all grown up.

I know. What in God's name have you been doing for the last few years?

Oh, let's see. Had another child. So now Sean has his Archie. And then later decided that now that I had 2 kids, I should probably marry their mother. And then we made another child. Another season of that soccer show that I do that people are so, you know, insistent about. What are you up to?

Sorry, that's like big moments over the past 3 years for you. Congratulations on all 3 fronts.

Oh, golly.

I mean, pretty much the same. Same old, same old over here. Just still doing the same job. Just still got the same everything.

But also Crystal Palace have won multiple trophies.

I know, you're right. They actually have multiple— 3, to be correct. If anyone doesn't know, Crystal Palace are my team, as well as England, as well as US men's national team. There's quite a few. I'm turning very American very quickly. Community Shield is the 3 trophy, uh, Conference League, just recently won, number 2, and of course FA Cup final. And congratulations on winning the Premier League. Thank you.

I did it personally. Um, for those who don't know what Crystal Palace or Arsenal, those are, uh, soccer teams in the English Premier League. And, um, and those teams, uh, I have some players on them that'll come up in our conversation. So they're good to know.

Now, Brendan, we are going to do After the Whistle from this gorgeous studio for a lot of the time in this World Cup. But as we will get onto shortly, this World Cup is massive and it— yeah, lovely.

Just touching, touch grass, they say.

Touch grass. Touching the pitch. It's— we're still doing that?

Yeah, I'm very comfortable.

This is going to go on for a number of weeks, as you may or may not have seen in our trailers. This is a—

it makes noise.

It is a real— this isn't AI. We are actually right here with the grass, which is on the wall. Amazing. It's a massive World Cup.

Massive, the biggest.

And we're going to be here in the studio for a few weeks, but then we're going to go out on the road. So we just wanted everyone to know kind of what After the Whistle is going to look like for the next 6 weeks. I'm going to be at the Fox Studios down the road.

Oh wait, what? What's that? What about that, Rebecca? What are we talking about here?

Just dropping that in. I know.

People don't know.

People might not know. So I'm going to be help hosting the World Cup on Fox, which is a loan without a view to a permanent from NBC to Fox Sports for the summer only. And that's just down the road. So I'm going to do those shows in studio until the end of the round of 32. Then I go out on the road with the crew and do the shows from the stadiums. We might get to episode 8 and I might be in the back of a car. I'm just gonna tell you, it's not always gonna look this beautiful.

Like with your hands tied and like a bag over your head?

Quite possibly.

Oh boy.

And for you, you're also gonna be out and about.

Yes, in strictly a fanly capacity. Gonna go to, try to go to all the US games, which currently involves 2 trips to Inglewood, which I tell you, that traffic, you might as well be flying somewhere else. And one flight to Seattle. I currently have tickets to one Holland game, my beloved Holland, also known as the Netherlands, but I'll call them Holland because that's what I do. And one England game. Oddly, both these games are in Dallas. Oh, which has a roof. It does have a roof.

So you won't get sweaty.

A retractable roof.

That's good. Yeah, but we want to not retract it. We want to tract it. Is that the opposite of retract? Protract? Let's go with yeah. Okay. We want to, 'cause we don't want, we're trying, we'll get onto the heat later, by the way, 'cause this is such a situation at this World Cup, this heat situation. We've got to explain to everybody who maybe haven't listened to After the Whistle before, who are new to the World Cup, who may be even new to football. This World Cup, as I mentioned, is gigantic. Is it twice the size of the 1994 World Cup?

It is literally twice the size. Because? Because FIFA likes money, primarily. And also because 24 was like not quite right, and 48 is probably too big. But in the middle, in the middle, they had that sweet, sweet 32. And 32 is the exact perfect size for this tournament. And they had it for some— how many? 94? 98, 02, 06, 10, 14, 18, 22. 7 beautiful World Cups in a row, including the last one being one of the best World Cups that has ever happened. And they've immediately decided to mess with it. And we'll see how that goes because frankly, it, on one hand, it's like, wow, more soccer. Would we go from 64 games to 104 games? Something like that. But on the other hand, like, now we've got a group stage whose jeopardy will be diluted. A bit. Historically, the top 2 teams in a group of 4 advance. You get 3, you know, 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. But now, as happened in '94 as well, there's a whole complicated formula involving some, in fact most, 3rd place teams that would advance.

Yes, because there are 12 groups, and the best placed 3rd place team— I won't say it like that on television, I'll be a lot more succinct and much clearer— will advance from 8 of the 12 groups. So if you do quite well, but finish third, you're more than likely going to make it into the round of 32, which means that only, if my math serves me correctly, 16 teams will go home after the group stage. I mean, there's loads of teams going through. Yeah. And you don't like that?

It's the first round of 32 in the history of this tournament. I don't really know. I mean, we'll wait and see. You know, I'm sure there were a lot of people who didn't like it when March Madness went from 32 to 64, and that seems to work out all right. But this is a, this is a different Different situation. I will say, as I look at, you know, possible brackets and scenarios, that one thing that is interesting is kind of no matter what, the round of 32 will have some slugfests. We'll have like some big, big name matchups. And that, that'll be, that'll be interesting soon.

I just feel like the argument about this is the World Cup. You have to qualify over the course of a couple of years to get here. And we are now opening it up. It should be, should it be the elite of world football? And there are 4 nations who are brand new. And I'm not, I'm sort of on the fence actually, because I'm kind of loving Cape Verde and Curaçao and Jordan and Uzbekistan and all the stories and the color and the joy that they're going to bring. But then I'm like, what if we get some 12-0s? I don't know if that's a great situation.

And not completely unprecedented in a manner of speaking, like when a couple of Women's World Cups ago, didn't the US beat Thailand like 11-0? And you know, it's a different, different situation. Situation in, in that particular World Cup than this one. But, but yeah, it's all— it's a brave new world, and we will, we will see what happens. But like, oh boy, boy, Cape Verde's got to play Spain, if I recall correctly. Haiti's got to play Brazil. Yeah, yeah.

Can you imagine if you're Cape Verde and your first ever World Cup game is against Spain? It's gonna be— the scenes back home in all of these countries is gonna be incredible. Okay, so of course, 32 years ago was when the United States, and this is 3 host countries this time. It's Canada and Mexico. We mustn't forget that. But back in 1994, 32 years ago, it was just your lot. It was just USA in this country. I was 13. I didn't care about it because England didn't qualify. Absolute rubbish. Tell me about your memories of that summer.

Sure. Well, you didn't care about it because England wasn't in it. I didn't care about it because I didn't know it existed. Like, I literally— I had— I've had 6 years of run-up with this. Like, I've been so excited. I've been counting the days since it was announced. And By contrast, in 1994, I literally didn't know about it till about 20 minutes before it started. And the opening game was in Chicago, where I was less than 2 miles away at my grandma's apartment, flipping through channels and like, "Oh, this is Soldier Field. What? Are they about to play a soccer game? What is it? Oh, the World Cup. I guess I've heard of that." Wow. And you know, they were showing Jurgen Klinsmann at the time, later the US coach, oddly enough. And Jurgen Klinsmann, just beautiful flowing blonde locks, Jurgen Klinsmann, and just like the most German name I'd ever heard. Okay, all right, I'll check this out a little bit. So '94, 4, I then, I watched USA-Colombia, which was the decisive game that got them out of the group, which was a massive, a massive story. No one thought they, they were going to get out and they upset Colombia, who were something like 5th ranked in the world at the time.

But again, my ignorance of the sport back then, they won on an own goal, an infamous own goal. Shout out Mr. Escobar. And I saw an own goal and people going nuts, but I saw an own goal. I was like, why are we celebrating? Like, we didn't do anything. Just, they messed up. Which I have now more nuance That's Brazil's view of own goals now.

We'll take all of them. We'll take them. In fact, I'd like to win the World Cup on own goals.

And then I watched Brazil-USA in the next round. Brazil won 1-0, and Leonardo elbowed Thiago Ramos so hard that he broke his skull. Literally broke his skull.

Seriously?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was immediately inflamed with rage. Like, a team I didn't care much about a week earlier, now I hated Brazil so much at that time. And then I remember watching the final, which was The— I think I've done the numbers here— the worst final in the history of the World Cup, which was such a missed opportunity for the sport in this country. It was nil-nil after extra time and went to penalties, and the last penalty was a miss. But I think the lesson they learned then that they're going to, you know, stick with now is don't try to play soccer at noon in July in Southern California. So they're going to not do that this time, which I think is very smart.

That's the heat again, which we will get on to.

The specter of the heat looming closely. That's— that was Roberto Baggio, wasn't it? Who was—

missed the penalty, and Brazil won that World Cup, and Italy lost in the final. Italy, who are not even going to be here, third time in a row. The whole generation of Italian players not going to make it to a World Cup, which also slightly makes a mockery of the World Cup qualification situation when you do have tiny baby little countries that have never been here, and Italy, a world power supposedly, isn't here. But that is because they're in a harder area of the world to qualify for the World Cup.

But it also means they've— they had numerous chances.

They did.

They had numerous chances and they did not take up those chances.

They did. So, eh. Last time it was here in 1994, there wasn't even— when it kicked off, there wasn't even a football league, a soccer league. There wasn't Major League Soccer. Major League Soccer came about, I think I'm right in saying, in 1996. And that is doing well and still going. And it's over 30 years old and it's thriving and it's getting bigger with every passing year. You know what I'm really interested in? The legacy of 2026. Mm-hmm. What do you think what this competition could do for this country, the way we look at football, the way it sits within a country full of NFL, NBA, MLB, et cetera.

The opportunity is massive, but what it's going to take is for our home team to do well, at least get out of the group, and to, you know, suitably ignite the country with at least effort, you know, going down swinging, or God forbid, you know, winning a few games that they're not expected to win.

And do you think it's going to birth an entire generation of, let's say, 10, 11-year-olds who are watching these games on TV? Because not everyone's going to get to the games for a multitude of reasons. A lot of kids are going to spend their summers— because by the way, in England, kids don't break up from school until the end of July. End of July. What? I know, I know. How crazy is that?

They got to wear those jackets? No, no, no. The whole time?

Only Harry Potter. Okay, got it. Nobody else wears those. But the point is, you miss great swathes of the World Cup in England because you don't break up from school till the end of July. My little boy's broken up already, so he is primed and ready for the entire tournament. He can watch every single game. Do you think that that's going to create a movement when, say, the 10-year-olds are 20, 25, they've got money in their pocket, they're running the world? It's going to be— it's going to have an effect, isn't it?

The sport in this country is in a way better position than it was back then, in short, as you've been saying. And again, like, the proof in the pudding is like I knew about it, this one, 6 years ago. I knew about that one a half hour before it started. Like, the pump is primed. And at the very least, those who have a whisper of desire to pay attention will have ample opportunity to do so. And so, yeah, this could finally be the thing that tips the sport over the iceberg. And then, you know, our best players start playing football, and then we win one of these tournaments one day.

We're a few days away, time of recording. Are you feeling the vibe? I think I am feeling the vibe. It's everywhere. I mean, not least, you cannot go into a shop and buy anything without having the World Cup on it.

Yeah, I had to do some flying last couple of weeks and it was nice to be at a couple of airports. I mean, LAX, of course, and I went through Dallas and I went through Philadelphia as well. Yeah. And in each, in each one of those, because they're all host cities, like, like, okay, all right, starting to see the stuff, which means when people are coming here, you know, from wherever in the world, they're starting to see the stuff too. So the table is getting set for sure. We're not there yet. And I think This country being what it is, it might even take a minute after the tournament starts to like really feel a buildup around here, as opposed to if it was in England or Italy or what have you. But it's coming.

I think what's interesting is that the first game is in Mexico City, and they can have a party, can't they? I mean, if anyone can have a party at the Azteca Stadium, it's Mexico. So Mexico against South Africa is on day 1, which is Thursday, June 11th. I wonder whether— because I know a lot of USA fans are thinking, why, I wish we could have opened the World Cup. But actually, I think that's going to set the tone beautifully. And the USA are going to be like, well, hang on a second, hang on a second. You think you can do a party? Yeah. Check out what's happening today.

Yeah. Oh, it's supposed to look like that? Yeah. Oh, got it.

Exactly.

All right.

Exactly.

Heard.

Yeah. Fireworks! Buy more! Exactly. And I think that could be a nice little way to open this tournament next Thursday, and then followed by Canada and USA, who both play on the Friday.

It'd be a great time to buy stock in flare companies. Correct. In this country.

Correct.

Undervalued right now.

Okay, do you know what I've missed? What? I've missed saying this. This is After the Whistle from Apple News, and we are going to be back in just two shakes of a lamb's tail.

Poor lamb. FIFA World Cup is right around the corner, and I can't wait.

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No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup than Verizon. Okay, it is time to talk about what a lot of people are tuning in for. Let's talk ourselves some US men's national team. Let's just remind everybody they play Paraguay Correct.

First up.

Yep. They play Australia second up in Seattle, and then they come back and they play Türkiye. I've been told that is how we're pronouncing it, back down here in LA. That's their group. 2022, they went out in Qatar to your Holland. That was a tough day for you, and that was a round of 16, because that was back in the good old days when there was no round of 32. So they got through the group stage, and then they went out. I think it was 3-1 they lost to the Netherlands. That team there, Brendan, and where we are today. Talk us through the journey of the USMNT.

Sure. Well, even getting out of the groups was a bit of a win at the time because the US hadn't even qualified for 2018, shockingly. I mean, CONCACAF's qualifying is literally made to ensure that Mexico and the US qualify every time, and somehow we found a way not to do it. But so getting in and then getting out of the group was, was a big deal, but then it was also a bit frustrating because It was another round of 16 loss, and we haven't gotten out of the round of 16 since 2002, which is, which is a bummer. But that was a very young team full of young guys playing at bigger teams than our young guys usually are. And it felt like the table was being set very well for this massive, you know, home World Cup coming up in 2026. The last 4 years since then have been unexpectedly tempestuous for our national team, including interims. We've had, I believe, 4 coaches in that time. We've had soap opera stuff. We've had some big results and some bad results. By the way, the HBO documentary, US vs. the World. Really good. Really good.

Highly recommend that. Very good primer to help you get up with all this. And the coach we now have, unexpectedly, Tottenham Hotspur legend Mauricio Pochettino. And he is— he's got a different vibe than pretty much anyone we've ever had. Rarely talks tactics publicly. He basically only talks about passion. Like, he only talks about how much he wants the guys to be ready to live or die with every single, like, you know, duel, and cover every blade of grass. And he's just pushing, like, energy so, so very hard. I find it fascinating for an accomplished coach to be emphasizing that more than anything else. And I wonder what it says about us more than it says about him.

And do you think that we've seen under Maurizio Pochettino improvement? Because I feel like it's been a little bit, oh, it's good. Oh, it's really bad. Oh, it's really good again. You know what I mean? Over the past couple of years.

It's been a bit tricky because, you know, by being hosts, we don't have to qualify. So there's been a lot of friendlies and friendlies, it's just very hard to glean anything from them sometimes. They did go to the last Gold Cup with not the entire roster and it was feared they would do horribly, but they made it to the final and lost to Mexico, which is credible, I'd say. But, um, starting to see something in these, uh, last couple of friendlies where it's like none— literally none of those games since he's been hired have mattered. Not a single one. It's all about trying to peak at the right time and get everyone there healthily. And are we there yet? I don't know, but there's some evidence to suggest that peaking at the right time is what's happening.

There is evidence. I have watched pretty much every game, I think, under Maurizio Pochettino, and Just you, as you said that, the Senegal game, which was a few days ago, and then today, because we're recording the evening of the Germany game, one victory over Senegal, 3-2, and then the defeat to Germany today. Senegal was good. I thought today was really good. I did too, in defeat. But first of all, I mean, is Anthony Robinson's goal the greatest thing to happen to Fulham Football Club in the last 100 years? He plays for Fulham, for anyone who doesn't know, back in England, and they're pretty much a mid-table. Nothing really exciting happens to them very often, but that goal— I was on the plane and I erupted in my seat. That goal was very unexpected from Anthony Robinson. Is that fair?

Uh, yes, that is entirely fair. Um, it's only like his third or fourth goal, I think, for the national team ever, and like, you do not expect him to hit a volley from outside the box, um, in the great history of Benny Feilhaber. Um, but that was, that was something. But what also— I liked that liked about that. So that equalized the game 1-1 after going down ridiculously early on a very, very soft goal that made it 1-0 early on. But the last 3 times the US has been eliminated from a World Cup, one time without even getting there, were by the Netherlands and Trinidad and Tobago and Belgium. And each time the US got behind and, and then got behind 2-0 before they finally scored one. And by then, by then it was too late to to have an equalizer against Germany in that, in that, uh, in that paradigm is— it actually feels like progress. Yeah. You know, and that speaks to the fight that Pochettino has been after.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So we know that Anthony Robinson's got a little bit of magic in his boots that maybe we didn't know until today. Christian Pulisic has had a rough old time at AC Milan. Well, he started this season over in Italy, AC Milan, really, really well.

Gangbusters.

Brilliant. I mean, arguably the best player in the Italian league in Serie A. Hit Christmas, he was like, I think I'm done, I want to I'm just gonna just chill for 6 months. I don't want to assist. I don't want to score a goal.

I think he wanted to.

I just think, I just think he was like, I'm just gonna wait for the World Cup. So everyone spent the last 6 months talking about what's happened to Christian Pulisic, and then he turns up at these friendlies and against Senegal, a goal and an assist. And by the way, it wasn't just any goal. That was a difficult goal. He played really well in that game.

And then a tight angle to do the finish as well.

Not maybe quite as impactful today, but still absolutely fine, more than fine. He looks to me like he is— that phrase, he's going to meet the moment, my friends. I think he's going to meet the moment. Now, I want the US men's national team to do really well. For anyone wondering, yes, I'm an England fan, obviously, and how we're not discussing England in the first episode, I'll never know. It'll be in the second episode, don't worry. But I am also a US men's national team fan because it's my adopted country. My child was born here, all of the things. I'm excited. Weston McKennie has never had a better season. And he plays well. Where does he play today? He played a little deep, but I think his best position— and he would say this— is the sort of a little further forward. Yeah, between 8 and 10, sort of.

And he might play a little more forward against, uh, the lesser opponents we have in the group.

Good shout. Yeah, so between— essentially between the midfield and the striking situation, there's a little area where he likes to play. We've talked about Pulisic, Anthony Robinson. We've talked about, um— oh, we haven't talked about yet, but there are plenty of other attacking— I think attacking options, um, for Maurizio Pochettino. Where I'm concerned, and you mentioned it, the Kai Havertz goal. Now, Miles Robinson lost Kai Havertz for the goal today. I'm not sure Miles Robinson's going to start in the World Cup anyway, but can we talk about the goalkeeping situation? Because Matt Freese, according to people who know a lot more about goalkeeping than I, who I have managed to get their opinions of since the end of that game, he should have come out and done something with that when the ball came in. And the weirdest Frendon, is that he— I don't think he knows who his keeper is. I— when Matt Freese was named today, I thought, oh, okay, he's decided on Matt Freese, because just a couple of days ago he played Matt Turner. Can you pick your favorite Matt, Maurizio?

He's lousy with Matts right now. He got too many Matts to choose from. Yeah, both goals were, were soft. Um, the second one, not as much an indictment, I'd say, because it was, you know, good, uh, good passing exchange from Germany that changed the angle, etc. But it looked soft. And then the first one, like, you can't— hey, man, goals that happen in the first 2 minutes count just as much as anywhere else. You got to be, you got to be ready there. And yeah, Miles Robinson didn't do anybody any favors either. But like, yeah, it's—

Chris Richards is going to come back, though.

We don't know that for sure.

I think it's edging towards him being fit for the first game.

Well, let's— if we can talk about then for a moment, let's talk about like players who we think are super important on this team who we have not already discussed. Pulisic, obviously, is the headline grabber. Like the mystery of who's going to play goalkeeper will be—

Who would you pick?

A big deal. I would pick Matt Turner just because—

Would you?

Really? I mean, it's pretty close, but like Matt's been to a World Cup before. And I think, I think that's, that's a formative detail. But two hugely important players in the spine of the team are Chris Richards and Tyler Adams. Yeah. Now, Tyler Adams was at the last World Cup. He was the captain at the time. He's not this time around.

That'll be Timo Werner.

And Chris Richards. That is weird.

Yeah.

Chris Richards was a, was a late scratch. The last World Cup, and he unfortunately got injured for his club, Crystal Palace, who I hear are a great club.

3 trophies.

Yeah. They— he got hurt late in the season, but it was thought that he was going to be okay, and now he hasn't played out of these friendlies. Now, Chris Richards is important enough to me that even if he's not going to be back in time for Paraguay, I want him on the roster anyway, because he's not there for the group stage, he's there for the knockout rounds.

I agree. I think if Chris Richards is fit 2 minutes before the Paraguay game, he goes straight in, even if he doesn't warm up.

100%.

He's really important to this team. 100%. He would be actually my captain, I think. To say yes, that's because I'm a Crystal Palace fan, but I agree with you. Chris Richards in that back 3, because the United States are going to play a back 3 or a back 5, however you look at it, he is the main man, don't you think, back there?

Yeah, I mean, as you say, there's, there's quite a wealth of attacking options and we are far thinner in defense. And, uh, and Chris Richards is— I mean, he's, he's a bad man back there. For those who don't know him, he's from, uh, Alabama originally, not a soccer hotbed, obviously more of a football hotbed, but he said Nope, not gonna do that. I wanna be a soccer guy. And then from a young age goes to the academy at Bayern Munich, one of the 3 or 4 biggest clubs in the whole world. I'm gonna go ahead and say he was the first Alabama-born player to go to Bayern Munich. I suspect you're right. And so he's certainly at Crystal Palace, which a lot of people think is a step up from Bayern Munich, but perhaps doesn't have quite the stature or reputation.

Except for Michael Olise, who seems to go the other direction. But anyway, yeah, I'll give you that.

You're right, there are ships in the night. Um, but, um, Chris Richards has, um, I mean, he's, he's, he's a prodigy who's, you know, he's, he's a starting center-back in the Premier League, um, and he's just so solid and reliable and unflappable back there. And we just don't have anyone near as good as him, um, in the, the rest of the defender pool.

Tim Ream made some really good challenges, blocks, tackles today.

He's still got something in him, but he's 38.

He's 38, and that worries me. He is the captain, which means, and for those of you who maybe haven't dipped their toe too much into football over the years. The captaincy in football is also weird, right? Because there are people quite literally who don't care at all who the captain is. Yeah. And then there are people like me, and I really care, and it's like pumping your chest out and you're the captain and it's up to you to step up and all the things. But there are people, and at this World Cup, managers, head coaches, who will give the captaincy to the oldest guy. And actually, I'm not 100% sure why Mauricio Pochettino's given it to Tim Ream, bearing in mind Tyler Adams was the captain, as you said, 4 years ago. Chris Richards is a little more captain-y material for me, I think. And I also am kind of surprised. I didn't think Tim Ream was going to play as much as I think he now will because he's captain.

Agree? Now that it's a back 3, that's the first clue that he's going to have to be in there a lot.

True. He needs help.

But him being captain, I mean, he is the elder statesman of the team. The team does look up to him, so that makes sense. Makes some sense. But like, Tyler Adams didn't do anything to get demoted.

No, I know, except be injured a lot, which is another thing. That's true. Just one other thing we've got to touch on is Tyler Adams. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm a little bit concerned about backup in the Tyler Adams position because his injury record, whether it be at Leeds or at Bournemouth where he is now, has been really poor in English football. When you get Tyler Adams fit and on the field, he is such an asset. He's a really great player to watch. He gets stuck in. I would want to play alongside or for or near Tyler Adams. But I am so worried because this World Cup being so big, in some ways you have, I think, more days in between each game. But you still— at first, good shout, at first. But you still are asking Tyler Adams to play more games over the course of however many weeks than he's probably played, you know, in any kind of pattern for Bournemouth in the last couple of seasons. And if he were to break down, We don't have a lot.

No.

Look at me saying we, sorry. You don't have a lot.

Jeez. That was one of the few controversies of the team selection was a lack of defensive midfielders, Tanner Tesman in particular being someone who seemed like he could even be starting for the team. So if Tyler goes down, I'm not quite sure what happens there. And it could be, I mean, Sebastian Berhalter is a rising talent, but he's not Tyler Adams yet. And I've talked about this before, but I'll say it again. Tyler Adams, the first time I saw him live was when he was playing for Leeds. And it was at Anfield, which is where Liverpool plays, the mighty, mighty Liverpool. And I'd watched him for the US many times, but seeing him live is really to see, you know, a painting in 3D. Like, he's everywhere. He's absolutely everywhere. As you say, getting absolutely stuck in and playing the mighty Liverpool and yet showing complete disrespect, absolutely healthy, fantastic disrespect. And he will have that same disrespect for Spain or Belgium or whoever else we might be playing in the knockout round should we get that far, knock wood, all that. Um, so he is massively important, and if we, if we do lose him, and being worried about his injuries is 100% appropriate, I don't know what else we got.

So Tyler and Chris are, to me, hugely, hugely important, and please, please wrap them in, in bubble wrap.

And Christian.

Yeah, Christian, but that speaks for itself, I think.

Yeah, Christian Pulisic is, of course, the face of this team. Okay, let's just get to the nitty gritty.

Oh, we're gonna do both of those?

We are. What do you think is going to happen? Talk to me about the group and how it looks at the end and how it's gonna go and where USA gonna finish.

Go. So in our group are Paraguay, Australia, and Türkiye.

Türkiye.

Türkiye. Yeah, like Türkiye. It's a mnemonic device. It's not a— not to sing anything else. And when that draw came out, people were excited at first because we avoided, you know, the heavy hitters that we could have gotten. And certainly there is a low ceiling as to as to what these 3 teams can accomplish. However, there is a very high floor. We actually, it's a tough draw in that way because we didn't get any of the Curaçao or the Haiti, with all respect to those teams. We didn't even get any tomato cans. We got some tough, tough teams. Oh, don't start this.

Come on.

What on earth? Tomato can.

Does that mean like a home, like a free hit?

In boxing parlance, it's like, this guy, he's a mug. We got him in there so it's an easy win for you. He's a tomato can. I think it's in Rocky a lot. Rocky's a movie we'll introduce you to at a later time. So it's a very gettable group, but it's very dangerous. Yeah. But also the US is going to have something that this team very rarely has in all the years that they play, except when they have a home tournament, which is an actual home crowd. After the Senegal game, which was in Charlotte, played for 50,000 people, when often the US will be playing for 12,000 people in a 60,000-seat stadium, and 8,000 of those people will be cheering for Guatemala. But this was a US crowd in an almost full NFL stadium. And Serginho Dest afterwards was like, oh, I'm surprised by this. Is that actually going to happen? Because if that happens, that helps. And so I think having a crowd behind them, as so often does at a World Cup, is going to be a massive, massive element in their results. And so I basically think they will get out of the group stage and they will win a game that they should and they will win a game that they shouldn't.

And then after that, I think they probably go down.

Oh, hang on. You mean they'll get out the group stage, they'll win a game in the round of 32, and then they'll win a round of 16. So you're saying they're going to get out in the quarterfinals? They'll play a quarterfinal game and go home?

I, I, that is, that is it. Yes, that is what I'm—

I think, I think I'm with you. God, I want it to happen. Um, I'm actually— when you said about the home crowd, I'm actually really proud. I'm really proud of this country. And that sounds really patronizing, I don't mean sound that way, but when I first came here 13 years ago, Brendan, like you said, there just wasn't, there wasn't that as much. There wasn't as much love for the US men's national team and for the sport in general. And now look where we are. I believe for what you and I both want and think might happen to get to the quarterfinals, which by the way would be magic, massive, right? And massive. And this country would be unrecognizable in the build-up to that quarterfinal. They have to win the first game. I don't care if it's an own goal, I don't care if it's off your bum, you gotta win the first game. Game, that will create everything.

I would ordinarily agree with you except for two things. One we've talked about before, which is, and it's less true in this third place kind of year, but the most important thing in the first game, because first games can be weird, is don't lose. Just don't lose. However, but also, you know who lost their first game last World Cup?

Argentina. And it's happened, I think, at least twice in the World Cup.

Yeah, it happened to Spain in 2010.

Spain, right? The only two times it's happened. By the way, viewers and listeners, you think I know about football? This guy?

No.

Yeah, it happened in 2010. How do you know this stuff?

I have trivia. I have trivia. She has it in her book. You know what else we have in this country? What? Vertical grass.

It's on the wall. It's quite amazing. We should do that. Put that around the US Men's National Team games. Have the ball just bounce back up. That would help them. Okay, real quick. I think they have to win the first game because less about the win and the 3 points and more about the feeling.

Yeah.

The vibe.

The momentum. Like, if there's momentum to be had from this crowd and this nation, get it going as early as possible.

I can't wait. Okay, we've got a little bit more. Little bit more. Next. We've got some bits and we've got quite literally— Yeah. Some bobs.

And also, this is just part 1 of a 2-part preview. This is where we talk about the US.

Yeah.

And, uh, we'll talk about more stuff, uh, as we go.

This is After the Whistle from Apple News. We're gonna be right back.

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If you're not a Verizon customer, make the switch today. Brendan, this is a section that we call Bits and Bobs. It was very deeply thought out. Yeah. Back in the 2022 days.

Yeah. I think the phrase had never existed until I started using it.

Never, never, never. Created here. Used only here.

And a lot of people, a lot of shows will take like a, you know, a cute little phrase like that and they'll put their little twist on it. Yeah. No, not us.

No, just straight in with the, just the bog standard bits and bobs. Quite frankly, couldn't think of anything else to call the end bit of show. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask you for your bit or your bob every time we do an episode. We're both just— we're not going to— by the way, just quick thing for the audience, um, because we've hardly ever spent any time together in actually the same room, right? And we're so used to doing podcasts on the computer, like Zoom, like looking down. We've asked the producers, or I have anyway, to try and keep us apart as much as possible before we record an episode. And this morning, or this afternoon, goodness only knows what time it is, and I was in makeup and you crept in and I was like, no, I can't It feels like we're getting married. Do you know what I mean? When you're trying to avoid each other.

It didn't until that moment for the Dragons.

Does, does.

He can't be in here!

He'll see my outfit, my dress. So that's how it feels. Anyway, just to give a little insight to the viewers and listeners. And so I don't know your bits or bobs. That does sound very weird and inappropriate or appropriate for a couple getting married. And you don't know my bits and bobs. So it's like your feeling of the day. What's getting your goat? What you're thinking about? Go, let's have a bit.

Here's something to keep in mind. Weird things happen at World Cups when the host nation is a weird host nation or not typical footballing nation. And I say this as a means of encouraging more encouragement towards our team. Here we go. Here's the receipts. 2022 in Qatar, not typically where you have a lot of football. And what should happen? Morocco First African team to make the semifinals. Big deal, big deal. 2018 was in Russia, maybe less weird, but still kind of weird. Best ever finishes for Belgium and Croatia. Croatia makes the final for the first time. Okay, ah. Now 2014, that's in Brazil, and your final four are Netherlands, Germany, Brazil, and Argentina, I believe. So like, you know, it proves the inverse of this theory. 2010, South Africa.

Weird, in a nice way.

Yes. Uruguay, back in the final four for the first time in 40 years, and Spain wins for the first time. Before that, 2006, again, Germany, you had Germany, Italy, France, and Portugal. 2002, and this one's particularly instructive for us, I think, Japan and South Korea. Your finalists were Brazil and Germany, fine, but your other two semifinalists were Turkey and South Korea, a host country that no one fancied going crazily far. There may have been some referee corruption issues according to some people, especially the good people of Italy, but still, unprecedented.

Sorry, are you going all the way back to 1930?

I'm going back to '94. Oh my goodness. Because '94, last time it was here, your final— again, your finalists were just Brazil and Italy, but your other two semifinals were Bulgaria and Sweden.

Like, what are we talking about? Yeah. So your point is it's a weird place to hold it.

It's a weird place, and weird things can happen. And so it's not just a matter of like, hey, that's why they play the games and we're underdogs, but who cares? We go for it. Like, no, no, there's a track record of crazy things happening when the World Cup is somewhere that it isn't usually.

And I love the fact that that team that's going to be weird, right? That semifinal weirdo team. Team doesn't know right now that they're gonna be weird. Yeah. And they're sitting in their hotel in Kansas City or Atlanta or wherever they are, and they're gonna be the ones that we talk about after the whistle 2040. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I kind of love that. Okay, my first Bob, bits and Bob.

Oh yeah, sorry, I should throw this to you. Hey Rebecca, you got any bits and bobs?

Yes, I actually have today. And I feel talking about Maurizio Pochettino and passion, right? I'm quite passionate about things as well when it comes to football. And you're gonna see that quite a lot as we start to talk about England. Over the coming weeks. Okay, but here's what I can't wait. I know, here's what I'm a little bit like annoyed about right now. There are 8 rule changes going into this World Cup from FIFA. Okay, the last World Cup in 2022, there were 2, but really it was like 1.5 because it was, it was when COVID had happened and you were allowed 5 substitutes, but then you were also allowed another one in extra time. That was a second rule. So really it was just one rule change and it was only coming about because of COVID okay? 8 rule changes, Brendan. I'm not going to read all 8 of them, right? Because nobody wants that. No. But I am going to pick one out because not only are there 8 rule changes, but they're also, some of them, incredibly complicated to the point to which I wouldn't know what was going on. And these people are trying to play a game of football, and I don't know how they're going to police this.

And I'm wondering, is it just going to go like this for about 3 games and then they're all going to get together, the rest, and be like, this is silly. Yeah. Should we forget number 4? Yes, let's forget number 4. And then we just all forget number even happen. Can I tell you what number 4 is?

I can't wait to find out which of these 8 has, has grown, drawn the most ire from you.

I'll tell you what it is, right? It's the substitution situation. According to these new rules, right, when you get subbed, you have to get off that field in 10 seconds. Not, not 11, in 10. If you get off the field in 11 seconds, right, the bloke that is coming on is now not allowed on the field for another minute, right? Who's keeping that clock? Clock? I don't know. Also, who's counting the running off anyway? Does he have a countdown on a screen? Can the subs see as he's running off the countdown? Because he needs to know how long he's got to get all the way off. Anyway, here's the bloke trying to come on. Oh no, because the bloke coming off was too slow, you can't come on for a minute. Not only can you not come on for a minute, but then after the minute you have to wait for the ball to go out. Well, what happens if the ball doesn't go out and you're standing there and your team is playing with 10 men? Then you're angry at the geezer that took 11 seconds because he was running off. I also think I quite I like the amble off the field.

I'm a fan, right, of winning 1-0 and you make a sub and you just amble slightly off the field. Here we are ruining the fun, making everything overly frenetic, and no one's going to keep count and everyone's going to get caught out and it's silly.

That amble often is also like 22 guys taking a breath because it's late in the game and they've been going at it for quite a bit. But, uh, two things about this one though, Rebecca. One is I believe they've been testing this in MLS. MLS, uh, for a while, and it has gone well. That's part of why they're bringing it in here. And secondly, I kind of like it. Do you? I don't love all of these. I don't like— I'm with Tuchel. I think 8 rule changes at one tournament is, is too many. But I think because like it can get abused, it can get— also, I think I bet the 10 seconds is like a ballpark thing because as you'll know better than me, when the Premier League started, um, uh, when a goalkeeper was holding the ball for more than 8 seconds Is it 6?

I think 6. Whichever.

Whatever it was. And if they hold it for too long, then it's a corner for the other team.

And that's happening.

But they were doing it after like, the first time I got called, it was after like 12 seconds. They weren't like—

They're very, they're very, a little fluid, aren't they?

Yeah. So I think they'll be a little bit fluid.

Your 1 to 6 is different from my 1 to 6.

Well, I think that's why the fluidity is going to happen.

So anyway, I want everyone to watch out for that because honestly, we've got to all calm the hell down. Football was not broken. We don't need to fix it. Fix it. What's your other bit? Do you have another bit?

Oh, second bit?

If you have one, if you have one, throw it out there.

Oh golly. I am excited for the world to discover SoFi Stadium. Sorry, Los Angeles Stadium. 'Cause from my first time going in there for a Rams game, you know, a little bit after it opened, that stadium is fantastic. And the first time I went in there, honestly, my first thought was like, this is gonna be an incredible soccer stadium 'cause it's so vertical 'cause it's built into the ground in a way most of our stadiums are not. And it's so vertical, it reminded me of going to the San Siro, which is one of the great temples of football in Milan. And I think it is gonna absolutely cook, in the best way, for these games.

I love that. And you've actually seamlessly passed me back for my second bit and bob when you said the word cook, 'cause a lot of players are very worried about being quite literally cooked on the field of play. The heat, right? Right, is being spoken about like we are on Mars. You know what I mean? It's a bit of sun. Calm down, everybody.

Rebecca, it's a bit of sun in Miami in an unroofed stadium that you have to run around in for 90 minutes.

I get it.

But— and get off the pitch in 10 seconds.

Okay, I, I know. Another reason why, silly rule, because they're already going to be cooked. Why are you making them run even harder? I just think that, like, it's like it's never been hot anywhere else in the world. I just think a lot of things— we are talking about the heat way too much. And England especially are being asked questions about the heat, because if you don't know, English people, they love nothing more, like nothing more than talking about the weather, right? And they don't, because they don't literally see the sun for at least 10 months a year. They've come over here, they're like, what is happening? So they're getting asked all the questions, but they're saying they've already adapted to it. I think they've been told by the FA, by the English FA, just say we're fine with it. Just say we're fine with it, otherwise the weather's going to become a thing. So I think if we talk too much about the weather, that's going to annoy me over the next 6 weeks, okay? So the rule changes, changes, and the weather. It's okay, guys. It's okay.

If I recall correctly, in that '94 World Cup, Ireland had a game in either Orlando or Miami. It was a real hot day. And I don't know if you know this out there, but Irish people are even pastier than English folks. And when you hear some of their players talk about that day, as comes up in my Instagram algorithm fairly often, they talk about it like they survived D-Day. Like it's the worst day of their lives.

I should just caveat all this by saying, at some point, I am going out on the road, okay? And when I am pitchside in Dallas, Dallas. Oh no, that's got a roof. When I'm pitchside in— where am I going? Miami, right? And it's beating down, I am going to text you and I'm going to be like, I take it all back, this is absolutely horrendous. The sweat levels is not going to be attractive on air. The hair is going to be an absolute state. So watch out for that when I take all of this back in about 4 weeks. But right now, in this air-conditioned, beautiful new studio of ours with the grass on the wall that Brendan is just in in love with. Touch grass. I think everyone just needs to calm down about the weather.

Right? Yep.

Fair.

We done. We bidded and we bobbed.

I did. We did bit and bob. It's so nice to bit and bob with you again.

Oh yeah, I do like that. And I think by the time this is over, I almost got used to your discomforting proximity.

Yeah. Don't worry. In a few weeks, we'll be far away from each other again.

Be sure to follow the show on our new social accounts. @afterthewhistleapple on Instagram and TikTok. That's right, we're on TikTok now. And also give us a follow on Apple Podcasts where you can also rate and review us. It really helps people find the show.

And Brendan, you on Instagram and TikTok is my favorite. My favorite video was the one that you talked about, um, how can the US win the World Cup? Your little face.

How dare you?

It was so cute. Okay, for round-the-clock tournament— that's so patronizing— for round-the-clock tournament news scores and standings, check out the World Cup Hub on the Apple News app where available. Our next episode is going to be everyone except the USA. Well, when I say everyone, I don't actually mean everyone.

Yeah, the big names and then some of the medium names, but probably not the small names.

Possibly. Yeah, possibly leading with England. This has been After the Whistle from Apple News. Thanks for coming back after 3 years and listening.

We don't know if that's out there at this time. We're flying blind here. Don't get cocky.