Transcript of True Crime Vault: Missing Forever: What Really Happened to Etan Patz?

This is Jeffrey Roberts with 2020. For more than four decades, 2020 has brought you an incredible variety of compelling stories. Well, now we're going to bring you back to some of the most heart-stopping ones from the 2020 True Crime Vault, and we're going to give you updates on what happened to the people involved. Thanks for listening. Coming up, a beautiful spring morning, and a young boy goes missing.

He vanished seemingly into thin air.

When he was last seen, he was wearing a blue jacket, blue pants, blue sneakers. Get him back to us somehow, anyhow. His disappearance, a mystery. There were no leads. There was no crime scene. They didn't even know where he disappeared.

There are moments in this case that are beyond chilling.

One moment of inattention, you look, and they're gone. Finally, a suspect emerges.

We have a man who's approximately 38 years of age.

I have no comment on Pate's case whatsoever. But can they bring him to justice?

What we were trying to get was a complete admission.

Starts ranting about there is no body.

They're never going to find the body. Still gagged with the fear that this child must have found. What did you do to my little boy?

Missing Forever. What really happened to Eitan Pates? I'm John Quinones. For a whole generation of parents, the name Eitan Pates is unforgettable, haunting. It took only a few seconds for him to disappear, but the impact still ripples across our lives, forever changing how we keep our kids safe. What really happened to Eitan has remained a mystery for more than three decades. But new evidence and bizarre details in the case, a typewriter ribbon, a hand-drawn map, secret informants, they all seem to point to one man. Will the truth finally be known? As Jay Shadler first reported in 2009, the case of Eitan Pates remains an enduring symbol of a parent's worst nightmare.

Police in Idaho are searching for missing nine-year-old Dylan Groney.

For the ninth straight day, searchers looked for eight-year-old Sandra Cantu. The stories and headlines are part of our lives now. She had been snatched off her bicycle by a man in a black pickup truck. This prompted an intense search by local authorities and the FBI. A slow drum beat of news about the of crimes, the abduction of a child.

Searchers appear to be running out of places to look.

Was it always like this? No. Go back in time. Ten years. Twenty. Challenger, go with throttle up. 30 years. And we will mark the moment when innocence was abducted. It was 1979. You could fill up your Pontiac Transam for 79 cents a gallon. At the movies, Kramer versus Kramer laid out the changing roles of men and women. I'll have it back by 6:00. And if you were lucky enough to have the newly-invented Sony Walkman, odds are you were listening to Sister Sledge and We Are Family. I got all my But the rhythm of our lives was about to change, especially the way we think about our children. On May 25th, 1979, right here in the Soho district of New York City, a six-year-old boy vanished and was never seen again. His name was Eitan Pates.

For the longest time, what happened to him was a mystery.

30 years.

30 years. It's a long time. We had no idea how he could have been taken off the street when nobody saw him.

Stan Pates is Eitan's father. He rarely speaks about that day. His wife, Julie, never does anymore, but they still live in the same loft. Did you and your wife ever think about moving? Ever? No.

No. For the longest time, we didn't know what had happened to him. So of course, the thought in the backs of our minds was always that we should be here for him.

Despite the years, it all remains remarkably vivid. It was the last school day before a long Memorial Day weekend.

I think that I was probably in the bathroom shaving when time went out the door.

Did your wife take Eitan down the elevator? No.

Since we're only on the third floor, we use the stairs.

Down the stairs and out on to Prince Street. It was a red-letter day for first-grader Eitan. For months, he had been pestering his parents to walk alone to the school bus stop just two blocks away. Today, they finally agreed, and away he went. In the early days, you and your wife took a lot of criticism about letting Nathan go by himself that day. That must have been tough.

Well, we did, but at some point in every parents' life, they send their children to school alone. Did we do it too early? Obviously, we did. It was very familiar territory. This was a very safe neighborhood.

He wanted to get out.

He wanted. He wanted to do all kinds of things. Very outgoing. Would have served him very well in later life. Absolutely.

And you guys wanted him to be independent? Of course. You wanted him to develop that?

Every parent wants their child to be independent. When you let them out of your sight, when they're 21.

Back upstairs, Julie could have followed some of Eitan's path from their fire escape. But today, she got busy with their other children. And Stan, a commercial photographer, went about his day. With a photoshoot uptown.

It had to be at least three o'clock. Julie called and she said that Eitan had not come home from school. I was probably down here in about 15 minutes and came up here and It's all still right there, isn't it? At some point, he must have realized that things were going bad. I still gag with the fear that this child must have felt when he realized he was betrayed by an adult.

We have no intention of prosecuting.

We just hope that they treat him nicely and get him back to us somehow, anyhow.

As police scoured the neighborhood, Stan Pates scoured his dark room.

I went into my proof file and pulled out some pictures that I had taken a few months earlier.

Stan was always snapping pictures of the kids, but these of Eitan would enlarge the story, and even today, help define an era.

I had all these pictures of Eitan smiling, laughing, playing, fooling around.

Here's his personality just beaming out of here.

He was a great kid. Look at his smile.

Oh, man. 1,000-watt light bulb.Right. On storefronts, posters, and flyers, Eitan's face peered out, and the media waved in. Take a close look at the picture we're going to put up on the screen. This is Eitan Patez. I should spell that.

E-t-a-n-p-a-t-z. It had all the elements of a television story. It was just one of those things you looked at, you didn't have to think a lot about. You said, This is going to be big.

John Miller is an assistant director with the FBI. Back in 1979, he was working as a local television reporter in New York.

It was a story that captured figured the public's attention, and a storyline that anyone who not only even had a child, but even had a niece or a nephew, looked at that case and said, There, but for the grace of God, one glance the wrong way, one moment of inattention, you look and they're gone.

Rumors about Eitan's disappearance were easier to come by than facts. Everyone had a theory. No one had a lead, which meant the spotlight turned back on the Pateses.

They were looked at immediately as part of the regular process. You start with the parents because, and it's never pleasant, because that's where you start.

Eventually, detectives are convinced that the Patz's have nothing to do with Eitan's abduction. But who does? The story continues to command national attention, even as the days turn to weeks, summer to fall, and the years pass. Still nothing. After all this time, do you think your son is still alive?

I believe he's alive, and I will continue to do so till we get some answers.

But answers would be a long time coming.

Everybody watches CSI. They think in 58 minutes, you solve the crime. There was none of that. This was a story that didn't end.

Lisa Cohen, a former producer at ABC and CBS spent five years uncovering new details about the Pate's case for her book called After Eitan.

There were no leads. There was no crime scene. They couldn't go dust for fingerprints. They didn't even know where he disappeared. They interviewed everyone When they could think of. There was a police detective who walked the streets every morning for years. At that time, when the bus would have come, hoping that he would run into somebody who had been there that day at that time. They couldn't find anyone who could shed any light on it. At a certain point, it just becomes there's nothing else to do.

Unless, of course, you happen to be a former prosecutor named Stuart Grabois.

The family can't forget whether it's 30 years or 40 years or 50 years, it doesn't matter. It's still fresh in their minds. They live with it every day.

And so does Mr. Grabois. It has taken several decades, but he now says he knows the answer, and this man may have a lot to answer for. You're the man who molested children. I don't do that anymore, and I don't want you to put your hands on me because that's where it starts. Stay with us.

This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast, Start Here. As hard as it is to imagine, family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black Doctors bag and they would come to your home to examine you. Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care. Advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals hospitals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teladochealth. Com. That's teladoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C, health. Com. This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast Start Here. As hard as it is to imagine, family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black Doctors bag and they would come to your home to examine you.

Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board a certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care, advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teladochealth. Com. That's teladoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-HEALTH. Com.

He is eating a peach. I was debating about trying to clean him up a little bit, but...

Those beautiful pictures of Eitan Pates are all still here in in the Anne Pates's darkroom. He even showed us a few of his son that had never been publicly seen before. This seems to have been one of the icons, wasn't it? Of course, the smile only makes the story sadder. In fact, in the years immediately after Eitan's disappearance, the images, together with the ongoing mystery surrounding his case, lined a dark vein of anxiety throughout America.

Before Eitan, kids played outside. They walked to school. The thought that a six-and-a-half-year-old would walk two blocks to the school bus stop was unheard of after Eitan.

Just two years later, another six-year-old vanishes, this time in Florida.

I don't know who would do this to a six-year-old child.

The Adam Walsh case garners even more attention as the country begins to focus on the newly recognized problem of child abduction.

Democratic Representative Paul Simon of Illinois today introduced a bill to make use of the FBI's computer system to trace missing children.

But if the world is changing. The Eitan Pate's case is stalled. Then in March of 1982, up here in the Bronx, a couple of miles north of where Eitan disappeared, a possible break. A homeless man named Jose Antonio Ramos is arrested for trying to lure young boys into a drain pipe. It was located back across the tracks, about 100 yards. When the cops come to investigate, they discover that Jose is a collector of photographs of young boys.

In some of the photographs Ramos posed with the children, hugging them. Ramos reportedly told investigators that these children were his friends. This afternoon, detectives-John Miller covered the story for local TV. What I thought was striking looking at the photographs was these kids have the general... Some of them have the general look of Eitan Pates.

But none of the pictures turn out to be Eitan, and Mr. Ramos says he doesn't know him. But what he does know is nearly as shocking. He says his former girlfriend used work as a babysitter for the pizzas.

So that was the first time there was a real connection between a horrible person and our family.

Why didn't the cops jump all over that?

You'll have to ask the cops.

Frankly, looking back at it, you'd have to say there might have been a lost opportunity in terms of time.

Especially in light of what else Miller found in the drain pipe.

In the garbage near Mr. Ramos's pipe, I found a letter. There was an envelope from the A Social Security Administration that was addressed to Jose Antonio Ramos, and an address on the Lower East Side that was really less than a mile from the Pate's home. You marry that up with the association with the babysitter, and now you have something that you really need to look at.

For reasons still unclear, a chance to link Ramos to Eitan Pates is missed. And when none of the other boys' families press charges, the Drainpipe case is dropped.

He was a horrible man. And if he was no longer a suspect, then fine. Fine. I could go back thinking that maybe there's still hope somewhere.

Five months later, Ramos turns up again. It was Officer Joe Gelfand's first night working the Times Square area, with a special, recently formed Pedophile Patrol. Times Square was a very different place in 1982. Oh, it certainly was.

It was seedy.

There was prostitution. There were pimps all over the area, and there were pedophiles. All of a sudden, I look over at 42nd and Broadway, I see this man talking to these three long-tier boys. He tails the group as they leave Times Square, following them through the Port Authority bus terminal, back out onto the streets, and eventually to a more déserted area where they end up on a rooftop. They all climb over this wall, and they're on the rooftop of this building. And I see him, he's unzipping his pants. I I tell him, Get up against the wall right now. He tells me, Please don't shoot. He starts crying. After booking Ramos, Gelfand finds some disturbing items in his wallet. He's carrying around that old newspaper clipping about his own arrest in the drain pipe incident. What's more, there are five photos of young boys resembling Eitan. So Gelfand immediately calls a detective at missing persons. He says, Who the hell do you think you are to call me three years later and tell me that you have photos of kids that look like Eitan Pates?

He was just blowing me off. It's a remarkable thing that he manages to stumble across Jose Ramos three months or four months after the drain pipe incident, and nothing else happens.

Ramos is briefly held for a psychological evaluation. But again, when no one appears to press charges, the case is dropped. Once more, there is no official charge in connection with the Pates' case, and he walks free. Perhaps never to be seen again, but for this man. When was the first time you heard the name Jose Antonio Ramos?

I would have to say the beginning of 1985.

Stuart Grebois is a former assistant US attorney. For nearly a quarter century, he has sought to solve the Eitan Pate's case. I first spoke with him in 1991. The plain and simple truth is a lot of people think that you're obsessed with this case.

I personally do not think it's abnormal to feel for the Pate's family, nor is it abnormal to try to find out what happened to their son.

In 1991, Grabois appeared on ABC's Primetime Live. So did Jose Ramos. When I interviewed them, Grabois already believed Ramos was involved in Eitan's disappearance. Stuart Grabois calls you a pedophile. I don't feel I was a total pedophile. Isn't that like saying I'm just a little bit pregnant? How can you No, no, no. You're either a pedophile or not a pedophile? No, no, no, no, no, There was a plan in place to try to obtain additional statements from Jose Antonio Ramos. The plan will eventually involve a rookie FBI agent.

There are moments in this case that are beyond chilling.

And jailhouse informants.

He even drew me a map of Eaton's route on a school bus. He knew exactly where the school bus stopped.

But the map to solving Eton's case points first to a curious cast of new characters, the Rainbows. We took his picture. He made an agreement that he would not be alone with our children. What did happen in that bus in 1986? Stay with us.

This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast Start Here. As hard as it is to imagine, family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black Doctors bag and they would come to your home to examine you. Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care, advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans, down Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teledochealth. Com. That's teladoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-HEALTH. Com. This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast, Start Here. As hard as it to imagine. Family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black Doctors bag and they would come to your home to examine you.

Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care. Advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teladochealth. Com. That's teledoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-HEALTH. Com.

It's 1984, and much Which has changed in the years since Eitan Pates disappeared.

I'm delighted to have the opportunity to help launch the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to tell you that the safety and protection of our children is a top priority on the national agenda.

At the White House, President Reagan also creates National Missing Children's Day, May 25th, in honor of Eitan. Across the country, milk cartons now carry pictures of missing children. And in Times Square, a video screen flashes Eitan's image. But his case remains unsolved when federal prosecutor Stuart Grabois enters the story. What made you think that you could make any headway where others had not?

I just felt that I wanted to give it my best shot. The name is Mr. Stuart Grabois, GR.

Federal prosecutor Stuart Grabois took over the Eitan Pate's case in 1985, six years after Eitan disappeared. Those who have seen him work, like John Miller, say in the pursuit of justice, Mr. Grabois is well dogged.

If he were a dog, I would not want to take his bone away. And what I mean by that is once Stuart is fixed on something and he believes that we're over here and justice is over there, he'll do everything within his power and within the law to get from point A to point B. At places where many others would have said, This is taking too long. This is too complicated. It's too hard. He is a driver.

So when Grabois takes over the case, he begins at the beginning. No one is beyond suspicion, including Eitan's parents. He was tough on you.

He was very tough.

In what way?

He's got a prosecutorial manner about him. He was no friend of ours at first.

When Stan first met you, you were not his friend, he said.

I think that's being fair.

I mean, you were hard on him.

I was, and I felt initially I had to eliminate the Pates as suspects.

Which he soon did. And in fact, he and the Paters are now close friends.

Steu has turned out to be the one man with the solution.

But the solution has never been obvious. Every lead leads nowhere. A tantalizing clue in an Israeli newspaper, hence Eitan may still be alive and living there. Grabois follows it all the way to Tel Aviv and another dead end. But then in 1988, a break. While running a rap sheet on past suspects, Grabois once again comes across the name Jose Ramos. Out of the blue, you find him. He's in Pennsylvania, and he's in prison. Correct.

He's in jail for having molested another little boy in Pennsylvania.

And That's where we met him, back in 1991, for the only TV interview Jose Ramos has ever given, perhaps with good reason. Don't put your hands on me. Don't put your hands on me now because I have my own energy.I'm not going to put my hands on me.Don't take your energy off I'm curious that you're so appalled at the possibility of me touching you, which, of course, I'm not interested in doing. You're the man who molested children. You listen to me, why? Because I don't do that anymore. I don't want you to put your hands on me because that's where it starts. Okay? Now you get that straight. That's how you started. That's how I started, and I don't want that anymore.Okay?by putting your hands on. Right. To understand why Ramos was sitting in this jail, you need to know something about these folks dancing in this field. In the early '80s, Ramos had wandered into the counterculture, hanging around the edges of a group called the Rainbows. Who are the Rainbows, Barry? It's many people. So it's like many colors, many beliefs, many vibrations. When I met Barry Adams, an elder in the group, back in 1990, he made it clear that the Rainbows did not trust outsiders.

They didn't trust the police, and it turns out they did not trust Jose Antonio Ramos either. We took his picture. He made an agreement he would not be alone with our children. You It's just a way of saying, Howdy, we are very aware of your activities. The Rainbows were suspicious because Ramos had shown up at past events in this psychedelic bus, handing out toys and trinkets to kids. When he shows up again at the Pennsylvania gathering, Adams confronts him. He finds two boys on board the bus with Ramos. Local police are brought in, and Ramos is arrested for statutory rape and indecent assault. What did happen in that bus in 1986? I don't I feel that a description is warranted on something that's perverted. But however, I will tell you that what happened there happened because I had too much lust inside me. Though Ramos confesses, there's a hitch.

It should have been a slam dunk, and it didn't work that way because he wasn't read his rights, and they had to throw the confession out.

But Stuart Grabois is determined to keep Ramos behind bars, where he can keep an eye on him and perhaps get a confession in the Eitan Pate's case. If the local DA won't prosecute, Grabois figures he'll do it himself. Using a rare legal tactic, Grabois is deputized to prosecute in Pennsylvania. That was a crazy idea, wasn't it?

Well, I wouldn't call it crazy.

But it was a little unusual. It worked. You're supposed to be the straights and wear the stone. And it works because the straight-laced federal prosecutor teams up with those free-spirited rainbows. You're cool. A most unlikely ally.

Yes.

But a good one.

They were wonderful.

The first time you saw Stuart Grabois, what was the feeling? I thought he was straight up. I thought he was okay people. Trusting Grabois, the Rainbows take a leap of faith, convincing the parents of one of the molested boys that their son should come to court to testify against Rimbauds. He had damaged something, and he had no right. You No, he took the innocence away from... He didn't have that right. The family involved may not be a suit and tie folk, okay? But this is something like Stuart and I agreed on. It don't matter. No one has the right to exploit somebody else's children. We're going to see a rainbow today if we're lucky. Or at least a silver lining to an otherwise dark crime. In this courthouse, on the record, a 12-year-old boy tells his story before a judge, and Stuart Grabois, standing only a few feet from Ramos, paints the portrait of a pedophile.

Ramos is a master manipulator. There's no conscience on this man. There's no remorse. Your Honor, Commonwealth respect to request that this monster, standing here, be put away in prison where he can never again harm a child.

Facing almost certain conviction, Ramos finally confesses to the Pennsylvania crime. The judge slams him with a a sentence of 10 to 20 years. You couldn't have done it without you. A vindication for the Rainbows and a victory for Stuart Grebois. But the Eitan Pates case remains unsolved and unfinished business for a prosecutor still looking for the keys to lock Ramos away for the rest of his life. Stuart Grebois says that you like, particularly, young boys with blonde hair and blue eyes, like Eitan Pates. Well, Stuart Grabois can say anything he wants to say. You never had a particular fascination for blonde hair, blue eyes, young boys.

No, I wasn't into the Viking thing, if that's what you're trying to say.

Even as Jose Ramos is shuffling off to jail. I have no comment on the Pates case whatsoever. Stuart Grabois is getting ready to shuffle the deck and throw a wild card into the Pates' case. With the help of a rookie FBI agent.

They gave me the unsolvable case, and I was daunted by it. It was overwhelming.

And secret jailhouse informants. When Jose Ramos was talking about having sex with a boy, is there any question at all that he used the name Eitan Pates?

He used it over and over again.

Stay with us.

Ten years after the disappearance of Eitan Pates on a New York City street, federal prosecutor Stuart Grabaugh is convinced he knows who is responsible. Garbois managed to convict Jose Ramos for sexually assaulting a child in Pennsylvania. But can he bring him to justice in New York? Once again, Jay Shadler.

Why do you think Stuart came to Pennsylvania to prosecute you? I guess because he wasn't making any headway.On the Pate's case?Yes. And therefore, he had to come and force his hand to see what I'd do. When I spoke with Jose Ramos in 1991, it was clear there was no love loss between him and federal prosecutor, Stuart Grabois. Is Stuart Grabois obsessed with you? If he's obsessed, that's his problem. That It's his problem. Well, perhaps, but it's also your problem because he's the man who put you in jail here. The man is so obsessed. He has become blind. Actually, prosecutor Grabois has had a perfectly clear vision of Jose Ramos for many years. What person is this?

Pedophile and a danger to our children, a danger to society.

The intense animosity between Grabois and Ramos was born in part from a remarkable face-to-face meeting they shared here in New York City back in 1988, before they ever met in that Pennsylvania courtroom. Grabois believed that Ramos was probably responsible for the abduction and murder of Eitan Pates, but he did not want to show his hand, so he played an old interrogator's trick. He arranged for Ramos to be brought here for questioning. Ramos thought he was coming on tax evasion charges. But once he was in the seat and comfortable, Grabois dropped the hammer.

I asked him how many times he tried to have sex with Eitan Pates.

Out of the blue? And his reaction?

He froze, became tearful, and indicated, I'll tell you everything.

So what did he end up telling you that day?

That he's 90 % sure that the young boy he took that day for sexual purposes back to his apartment was the same boy who he saw was missing and who was on television. And the only boy missing and on television that evening was Eitan Pates. And that became known as the 90 % confession.

But Grabois knew 90 % was probably not enough for a conviction in the Pates case. And suddenly, Ramos was giving no indication that he would ever give Grabois that last 10 %. I have no comment on the Pates case whatsoever.

Do you know more about it than what you're telling?

I don't know anything that Grabois knows. Why don't you ask Grabois about it? But the real question back then was whether Ramos' refusal to cooperate would doom the case for Grabois. Is Is this case closed now?

For as long as I'm in this office, what do you tell the Pates family? Sorry, your son is gone, and there's nothing anyone can do about it anymore? You can't just say, Forget about it. It's over. Because it's not over.

No, indeed, it was not over. We didn't know it at the time, but when we interviewed Mr. Grabois back in 1991, he was busy hatching a new plan to make good on his pledge to the Pateses to find out what happened to their son. To To do so, he needed a new partner, one as tenacious as he was. And this one would come along with the full power of the FBI.

I was a rookie agent. It was my first case that I was the case agent on.

Fbi agent Mary Galligan would come to this old case with new eyes. When you came on the case, did Stuart Grebois tell you that he had full confidence that it was Ramos?

He never said that to me. When I first met Stu, I told him that I wanted to come to my own conclusion, and he wanted me to. He wanted me to be his checks and balances. I learned the case. I went through everything. I tended, as Steve and I worked together as a team, to be the cynic, the doubter, make people prove it over and over to me. And that's the role I had, and it worked.

That's the role he wanted you to have, too, in part, right? Correct. With Ramos in prison back in Pennsylvania, Galligan and Grabois sift through the old leaves. Yeah, that's a good idea. Suddenly, they get a little luck from behind the bars.

Out of the blue, he gets word from two different inmates that they know Jose Ramos and that they might be willing to help out in getting information to him.

Lisa Cohen describes this breakthrough in the case in her book, After Eitan. 2020 talked to both of those informants. One will call Jeremy, spoke to us by phone from a prison in Texas. The other, named John, is now free but asked us to hide his identity. So how did you originally connect with Grabois?

I just wrote him a letter and told him what Ramus had told me, that he basically knew what had happened feet in pates.

Had you ever heard of the case? Oh, I knew.

Everybody heard of the case.

Mr. Grabois calls you a con man, but in this case, a con man who conned a criminal.

I have been. I kept responsibility for my action. I used his hate, I guess, is the right word for Steu Grabois, to get involved in that particular case. And then from there, he took it himself. I set the stage, and He spilled it, shall we say.

But could these criminals be credible?

Nobody strikes me as credible. Nobody. He still used to give me a hard time about that. He used to say, When are they going to to a point where you will find them credible?

Still, there were special reasons to believe that these men could be telling the truth.

The unique situation in this case, which I don't think I ever had again in my career, was we had two informants at the same time who didn't know that there was another informant. So when we were working with John and Jeremy, I could check what John said by asking Jeremy questions. I could check what Jeremy said by asking John questions.

So you're getting collaboration from the informant? Correct. Making both of them more credible.

Correct.

So Galligan and Grabois set the trap.

What we were trying to get was a complete admission as to what he did and what he did with the body.

Two criminals trying to really catch a predator and get Jose Ramos to admit to murder.

He had gotten on his knees at Jewish services and said, Eaton, eaton, I'll honor your memory. I'll never forget you. There were tears actually rolling down his eyes. He was off of the deep edge.

But every new revelation will carry a price.

He was banging on the walls. He was screaming. He's screaming that Jeremy was a rat.

In the end, prosecutors would get even more than they ever imagined.

He told me, basically, he knew what happened to Ethan Pates.

That was an aha moment.

When we continue.

This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast, Start Here. As hard as it is to imagine, family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black doctor's bag and they would come to your home to examine you. Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care, advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teledochealth. Com. That's teledoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-Health. Com. This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast, Start Here. As hard as it is to imagine, family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black Doctors bag and they would come to your home to examine you.

Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home. Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care. Advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teladochealth. Com. That's teladoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-HEALTH. Com. This is Brad Milke from the ABC News podcast, Start Here. As hard as What it is to imagine. Family doctors used to frequently make house calls. If you were sick, they would pack up their little Black doctor's bag and they would come to your home to examine you. Those days seem long gone, but one company is giving new meaning to the term house call, Teladoc Health. You can choose a board-certified doctor that's right for you and get primary care from the comfort of your own home.

Connect via phone or online with a board-certified doctor who will get to know you and provide whole person care. Advice, prescriptions, even mental health support and referrals tools. Teladoc Health is not only convenient, it's affordable, too, and it's covered by a surprising number of insurance plans. Download the app to get started today or go online to register or schedule a visit at teladochealth. Com. That's teladoc, T-E-L-A-D-O-C-HEALTH. Com.

I was on the upper bump, and Ramos was on the lower There's a high-stakes con game underway within the confines of a prison cell.

Did he ever say he met Eitan? Yeah.

He told me, basically, he knew what happened, he'd been paced.

An inmate, we'll call John, is sharing a cell with Jose Ramos. The arrangement is part of a secret plan by federal prosecutor Stuart Grabois and FBI agent Mary Galligan to hear what Ramos knows about the Eitan Pates case. According to John, he knows plenty.

He even drew me a map of Eaton's route on a school bus. He knew exactly where the school bus stopped.

Did you know immediately that that could be an important piece of evidence?

It's not a normal thing that somebody would know. So yes, I thought that was a significant piece of information.

So did Mary Galligan.

That was an aha moment because there was no way that John could have known all of that information.

So he had to be hearing this from Ramos. Correct.

I mean, there are moments in this case that are beyond chilling, that your mind has to take a moment to digest it.

And that's the first piece of information that is related directly to the case, which suggests that Ramos was, if not stalking Eitan, then knew an awful lot about him and was paying attention.

After two weeks, John is rotated out of Ramos' cell and is soon replaced with a second informant we'll call Jeremy. I mean, essentially, you conned him into talking.

Exactly. I did that. Pure and simple. It was a con.

We were only able to speak to Jeremy from his Texas prison cell by phone. He tricked Ramos into confiding to him. While Ramos did assignments in this sex therapy workbook, he was required to complete for parole. In a sense, you were acting almost as a therapist for Ramos. Is that true?

I faked it pretty well. I was a therapist to him. He told me he picked a boy up on Prince Street. He told me he took him down to the East Village. He told me he fellated him and that he had anal intercourse with him.

Is there any question at all that he used the name Eitan Pates?

He used it over and over again. I pressed him with Eitan. There's no doubt.

Ramos told Jeremy in graphic detail how he sexually abused Eitan Pates. And the graphic detail was so specific and so disgusting to listen to that It increased Jeremy's credibility. It would not be the type of thing that you would come up with as your own lie to try to con the authorities.

Once again, Ramos makes a hand-drawn map marking X's, where he picked up Eitan, where the Pates has lived, and where he took Eitan. But as much as he revealed to Jeremy, there was one thing missing. Did he at any point tell you that he killed Eitan?

No. He told me he was with him that day when he disappeared, that he molested him sexually on the day that he disappeared, but never that he killed him.

And Jeremy would never get a chance to ask again. Straight out of Hollywood, the typewriter our incident. Oh, yeah. It was because of a typewriter that Ramos turned the tables on a snitch. Jeremy had been using one to send letters out of prison to his lawyer.

And the typewriter ribbon, it's a ribbon in which when you type the letter, the letter is just all by itself and then advances to the next letter. So you can actually read a ribbon like that.

But you have to read it backwards. Everything's backwards.

Ramos gets a hold of the ribbon, and he starts unspooling it and reading it.

So when he decoded it, what did it say?

He sees the name Gramois on the typewriter ribbon.

Now he knows Jeremy's a snitch. Yes. Jeremy is quickly transferred out of Ramos' cell, and John goes back in to find a raving Ramos.

Oh, yeah. He was off of the deep edge. He was banging on the walls. He's screaming, Jeremy was a rat.

Now paranoid and sleepless, Ramos seems to break down.

It had to be about three o'clock or four o'clock in the morning. And here's Ramos just ranting about there is no body. They're never going to find the body.

John is stunned, but there's more. Ramos says he's had a dream of people burning. A curious reference since he only recently told this FBI informant about a huge furnace in his apartment building.

This fire box was big enough for two people to crawl inside of. The son was probably 12, 14 feet long. It was a big fire box. I think he destroyed the body. I think he burned it in that boiler. It would have been nothing left. The ashes, the bones. If you eventually burn bodies in a crematorium, if you burn them long enough, the bones, it just goes down to calcium phosphate dust. And it would have been cleaned out. There would be nothing left.

An explanation for the missing body, new evidence placing Ramos with Eitan, and a 90% confession. Nearly two decades later, it still wouldn't be enough to bring justice to Eitan and his family. Twice a year, Stan Pates mails a letter to Jose Ramos, once on the anniversary of Eitan's disappearance and again on his birthday.

Every year, I do the same thing. I write to Jose Ramos in jail, and I send a poster just to remind him that I'm still thinking about him and what he did.

The poster is sent to the Pennsylvania prison where Ramos has been held on his 20-year sentence for molesting a child, a sentence soon to be completed. The thought of him walking out of that jail in Pennsylvania, a free man, must just shake you.

He should never be allowed back on the streets again. He is the definition of a menace to society.

Is it possible that this guy can get out?

Yes.

Stuart Grabois was never able to prosecute Ramos on federal charges because there was no evidence Eitan had ever been taken across state lines. For years, the New York district Attorney's office, formerly headed by Robert Morgenthau, refused to bring the case to a grand jury. His office also refused 2020's request for an interview. Why hasn't this case been prosecuted?

I don't have an answer for that. I don't know the answer. Or at least all we ever asked, present the case to a grand jury. I don't know the answer to that.

What's your best guess?

I can't figure it out.

One guess is that without a good explanation for Eitan's missing body, a murder conviction can be much more difficult.

As an investigator, when you look at that, okay, he kidnaps the boy, he sexually abuses the boy. What does he do with Eitan? If someone had murdered Eitan, you would expect to find the body.

Which is precisely why informant John Furnace theory may yet prove pivotal.

John came up with that, and it was very disturbing, but it explained a lot.

Yeah, it was a big piece of the puzzle.

Very big piece.

As for Stan Pates and Stuart Grebois. In 2004, they won a civil lawsuit against Ramos, with the court declaring Ramos responsible for the death of Eitan Pates. Both men describe the ruling as a consolation prize.

Short of a criminal prosecution, at least we got a judicial determination of culpability that he was responsible for the kidnap and murder of Eitan Pates. What it did help is keep him in jail because he could never go for parole with a civil suit against him.

But what they really want is Ramos locked up for the rest of his life. In the meantime, if you're down around Prince Street in New York City, you might just find Stan Pates on his way to the mailbox. You do that every year?

I do that every year. I send them the missing poster. I type one line on the back and same line every year. What did you do to my little boy?

This is Deborah Roberts with an update. Jose Ramos served his sentence in Pennsylvania and was released in November 2012, but he was immediately re-arrested and prosecuted for failing to register as a sex offender. Ramos was sent back to prison to serve a sentence of 6-20 years. Also in 2012, another man, Pedro Hernández, who worked near Eitan Pates' bus stop in 1979, confessed to killing the boy. Although Hernández as his attorney says he was mentally impaired and his confession unreliable, he was charged with second-degree murder. Hernández's first trial ended in a hung jury, but at a second trial in 2017, nearly 40 years after Eitan his disappearance, he was convicted of kidnapping and murder. By then, Stan and Julie Pates had won their civil lawsuit against Jose Ramos, but they asked the court to vacate the decision. Pedro Hernández remains in prison and becomes eligible for parole in 2037. After the Hernández trial ended, Stan Pate said he felt truly relieved that there was finally some measure of justice for Eitan. In 2019, the Pate's family moved out of New York and sold their home. Their son's remains still have not been found. That does it for this edition of the 2020 True Crime Vault.

Join us Friday evenings at 9:00 on ABC for all new episodes of 2020.